As much as I love looking at your lovely faces, half the time your big mugs are hiding the action. LK: "Look at this" *action entirely hidden behind jmcrofts*
There were some periods in SFV where people were getting results with Alex. He was never high tier as far as I could tell, but character specialists were doing some work with him.
@@KemetShamar gunfight got good placement but only 1 win I think and Problem X won saltmine once with Alex from what I seen. It was Bison or Honda that he won the most with. Alex was still a cool character tho
one thing jm didn't touch on with alex in 3s is how parry completely counters the stomp. you simply pick either back or forward when you see him do it, and you OS the move with block and parry if you time it correctly.
Fuck man why can't they make my guy good. Actually was he good in SF3 vanilla (TNG?) I know nobody ever touches the first two games of SF3 anymore but I think the first one didn't have Ryu/Ken/Chun
@@The_SOB_II There's a channel called riiya who went over SF3 New Generation in exhaustive mechanical detail last year. It's a great watch, and probably the most knowledge about New Gen that has ever been compiled in the modern age.
I do like how ArcSys very blatantly used Slayer as a template for all of Margaret's animations in P4 Arena. As if Iron Tager in Blaz Blue using Potemkin's old X2 sprite template wasn't goofy enough.
Me, seeing LK pick Feeeza despite his huge glow-up in patch 1.32: "Does he know?" But seriously, Freeza just has rough matchups, i.e. characters who can completely ignore his zoning like Z Bully and Cooler. He's at the very least high tier in any case
@@AgentSephiroth *1.33. 1.32 was the patch before this one. Also, lmfao! I see you're one of _those_ players. The latest patch (give me a source where they said it was the final one) is the best patch we've ever gotten. They made the game fun again and literally every character is genuinely viable. Not that fake ass balance in S3 that people swear exists. A lot of people are coming back to the game and expressing interest in it when they didn't care about DBFZ before. Sounds like a you problem
@@Kitsune986 Agreed, I think people's negative reaction to this patch comes from an aversion to change. This is some of the most fun I've ever had with this game.
Hey jm - thanks so much for the video, so interesting to watch : ) I'm curious, though - and maybe you could make an extra video about that?? Please? - what goes into balancing decisions in fighting games, in your opinion? Like in SF6, most would agree that Zangief is low-tier and likely the worst character in the game. There'd be a couple of easy tweaks Capcom could make to make him more viable without him immediately jumping to top tier or being anything close to broken, like his Lariat hitting cross-ups for example. (this might happen in the future, of course) And other characters seem to be top or at least high-tier in most Street Fighter iterations. So what is it that influences these balancing decisions? Is it character popularity (Gief is pretty popular, interestingly enough), is it fan service to make some of the oversexualized female characters top tier, is it marketing, to buff the characters which are the face of the franchise? I'd be dying to hear your opinion on that. Couldn't find a video like that anywhere online, only some that talk about how to balance games in general, but nothing about which strategies or thoughts by the devs might influence decisions in balancing the roster.
It seems like a lot of these picks are characters that intentionally break the established rules of their games. Even the standard grappler character often violates some of the rules established by other characters in their game (e.g. strikes are usually stronger than throws). I think this is the source of the problem. Characters like that are insanely hard to balance, because they're hard to compare numerically to other characters. Either the strong parts are going to be too strong, or the weak parts too weak, and the only way to know for certain is to play 100s of matches.
@@TheRealSoravthe only games I've seen grapplers be top tier in is when they have a win condition that is stronger than the grab (and basically don't have to play as a grappler lol)
@@NeoBoneGirl AKA Broly who's also the games best zoner and has tons of armor on everything (and still isn't top top tier). KoF is the only series that really gives them a fair shake.
@@TheRealSorav maybe not top tier but grapplers are generally allowed to be good in kof games. Shermie, clark and orochi yashiro are pretty good in kof xv for example
Honorable mention should go to Sheeva from Mortal Kombat. PNDK&M did a great video about her competitive history. The shortened version is she was bottom 1 in all 3 versions of MK3 and MK9, due to her large hurtbox and poor defensive options making it so a lot of other characters could easily keep her out with projectiles, safely pressure her to hell, or even infinite her. In MK Armageddon she was okay at best. Nothing terribly bad, but nothing exceptional. But, Armageddon has like 60 characters, so just being okay is even less impressive than usual. MK11 was the only time she was good, but she was DLC and I only remember her being played during her "newest DLC character is really broken. Buy em!" phase. I didn't keep up with MK11 competitively, and Ketchup's video was released while the game was still receiving updates and support. I also don't know how she ranks now that competitive MK11 has custom variations, which kind of revamped a good chunk of the roster.
I think a video where some characters got nerfed to hell/fell from grace would be a fun one. An example would be Ibuki got dethroned as a top tier in the transition from second impact to third strike.
I'm glad Dan isn't in here as I played him as a secondary in USF4 and while in vanilla he's useless by the end of the game's lifespan he's arguably not bottom/low tier. Using the S-A-B-C-D rating system I would honestly put him in C or even C+. His tatsu in particular is rather good.
LK hasn’t played dbfz since season 3.5, can’t really blame him for the frieza pick, he was pretty bad until the buffs started adding up lol. Friezas kinda busted now
@KJpixelFGC Idk if I would put Frieza as being high tier. I think most of the top players consider him to be on the high end of mid tier. Regardless of how you rank Frieza, the fact LK chose him confuses the hell out of me. Mostly because Trunks exists, is hot garbage, and has been hot garbage for basically the entire lifespan of the game. LK talking about Frieza's level 3 being good. Should totally check out Trunks' level 3. Especially after talking about Alex's super whiffing on a reaction jump to the screen freeze.
@@markushavens8669 you don’t know what your talking about Lol. Frieza is definitely high tier, he’s just short of top 10 in my eyes maybe higher. and trunks from season 3 and on has been high tier to pretty terrifying now, but people just say he is bad because they don’t want to take the time to learn a technical character. The only character who has always been mid to low tier imo is dbs broly. He has damage but that’s pretty much it.
LK had to put a box over his head to keep the Millia downplaying from getting out. Homie wanted to put her in the video so bad 😢 Jokes aside I love these collab videos and hope we can keep getting more in the future!
@@Kitsune986 I hope that's true, but it also means I have no excuses when I get wrecked by a Vegito. That would mean I just need to get good, and that's real pressure.
Frieza was crazy OP in old dragonball z fighting games, but to be fair those games were never that competitive anyway. Budokai actually had some crazy complicated and deep mechanics and frieza was high tier or top tier in 1 and 2. Frieza was like mid tier or lower in 3 though
I know LK put down FighterZ (still wish he’d come back) but seeing the disconnect on how good of a zoner Frieza is now kinda hurt ngl. This character is a problem.
@@KJpixelFGC to be fair, LK and JM Crofts stopped playing before the Fusion Meta patch and Lab Coat dropping. It's only the recent patches where he's been okay but with team syngery problems to now really solid with great assists. So they both completely missed this. To be fair, Frieza was struggle bus for SO MANY patches, like jfc lol
So for the knowledge, Anji is the most consistently low tier character in Guilty Gear. Of all his entries, he’a only been high tier ONCE in SLASH, usually falling into low tiers or lower mid. Potemkin isn’t too far behind but he has a few legitimately good appearances that save him
@@mibeadorMIBEADOR PLAYS KLIFF? damn, that's my main in +R. I am an initiate in fighting games but the character just spoke to me. Master characters are usually low tier for some reason.
Come to think of it, seems like T. Hawk is the only SF2 character who has never been top tier in any game. Ryu - SF2 HF, Vanilla SF4, Vanilla SFV Ken - 3rd Strike, SF6 Chun-Li - ST, 3rd Strike, SSF4, Vanilla SFV Guile - SF2 from WW to HF, SSF4, SFV Season 2, SF6 Honda - SSF4 Blanka - CvS2, possibly SF6? Dhalsim - ST, Alpha 3 Zangief - Alpha 3 Balrog - ST, SFV Season 2 Vega - ST, Alpha 3 Sagat - ST, Vanilla SF4 Bison - SF2 CE, SSF4 Cammy - SSF4 AE (not sure if it's in the original or 2012 version), probably at least one season in SFV Fei Long - SSF4 AE (same as Cammy) Dee Jay - SF6 Akuma - ST, Alpha 3, Multiple versions of SF4 and SFV I probably missed some other notable placements, but it gets the point across. Would be funny if T. Hawk was secretly top tier in Zero 3 Upper or Alpha 3 MAX, just to complete everything, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation of those versions to know for sure.
@@rikibdgd4764 Yeah this new patch really jacked a lot of characters up, but I don't think he's broken per say. He's definitely gotten a lot better but characters like Beerus and for some god forsaken reason SSJ4 Gogeta getting MASSIVE buffs, as well as almost all of the cast getting decent buffs, Frieza didn't climb too high up the ranks. He's definitely not the worst but the reason why he is so bad is because pretty much all the top tiers can ignore his zoning, or out-zone him for Z-Broly and Beerus, as well as Base Vegeta now.
@@deathstardoesstuff that was the case before he became a zoning god with 2364s australia top 3 player uses him and its kinda impossible to get in especially with characters who are not called ssj4 gogeta with a projectile invuln hitbox move like beerus has his 2m and 16 has his 236h but it doesnt really work against freezers broken 2364s
@@rikibdgd4764 Oh yeah, I forgot him and S-Broly got that buff. In that case I'd say yeah he's definitely a lot better off than I thought. I'd probably give him high A tier more than low S tier but an argument could be made for either.
@@deathstardoesstuff him and SUPER BROLY????? that dog water character slow ball is absolutely mid with the landing lag it gives him and the ball not continuing to go after it lands on the ground (im half joking by dogwater hes b- at worst but still the worst char in the game pretty clearly)
@@irisstarsterio True but the problem is the version of Frieza he is talking about is most certainly not low tier and most of the examples he gave of why he is just aren't true anymore at all. I feel there could've been more research put into that topic.
Yep, Alex is the only non-giant to have a Snapback in UAS (JP only Daimao has one). I'm frankly not sure jm has Alex pegged here. What's changed since back when I played UAS? He has actual combos, can air combo into a reset command grab for big damage, that infernal j.H, has an unblockable on incoming characters after their partner is downed... Yeah his Lv3 still has the same jump out problem, but he hardly needs it. I mean, sure if everyone else has got better than him I suppose that's one thing. But "joke character" is kind of going too far. Not even speaking as an Alex user.
Another character that is pretty much always bad in every version of the game is Ganondorf in smash bros. He is best in melee but still mid tier. Every other game he is mid-bottom. But he is always fun to play.
@@torankusu3445 I'm ngl Frieza being in this video kinda annoys me😭. It gives people the impression that he's still under par when in reality he's been kickin it for 3 patches. I just wish LK had done more research.
@@Kitsune986 It's because Arcsys would always buff the Golden Frieza form only, never touching base Frieza, and even nerfing him a bit sometimes. So, rather than playing a decent character that has a strong ace in the hole transformation, the only benefit to play Frieza is for Golden Frieza.
@@Kitsune986 And thank god for that. But that still doesn't argue against the point that having the transformation ironically kept him as a low tier for a long time.
Every time LK is in these types of videos he always gotta bring up dragon ball lmao Like wym this character us ALWAYS High/Low tier it's just 1 game with several seasons it's always a weird pick if you ask me Like it a lot when he talks about games with many entries/rereleases as opposed to games that just have updates
For me I'd have to say Alex from Street Fighter being generally pretty bad to mid in basically every game he's appeared in. I should have waited, i was expecting Hugo or Twelve to be picked for SF3 from JMCrofts
I've been told multiple times that a grappler being high tier (or even just good) is a sign of bad game design and I'm still not entirely sure why that is.
it's just bc people hate playing against them. some of the big franchises have had a top tier big body grappler once (AC potemkin, Abigail before nerfs) and people act like they have PTSD from those times. but it might also just be hard to balance, in sf6 I think gief is supposed to be weak but lily and manon are pretty unique grapplers and new characters they must want to be popular. unique strengths are hard to balance though, so they erred on the weaker side. as to why people hate them, people hate 'robbery' characters and they're the only ones that rob you for blocking.
If Morrigan isn't here I'll be salty. She's bad in every game she appears in, minus Marvel 3. I guess CvS2 as well, but she's more mid tier than outright bad.
Idk about Frieza. He is my main right from the start and I do very well with him. Imo he is pretty solid and can also be very deadly. Grapplers just need a really patient Mindgame. So they aren't that bad, but hard to pull off
![Stromae, Pomme - “Ma Meilleure Ennemie” (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Visualizer]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1F3OGIFnW1k/mqdefault.jpg)
LK with a disjointed hitbox looking like a Top Tier, love to see it
Or hurt box it’s a reference to SF2 T.hawk
amazing that someone else sees it like that
25:24 watch it go away when he 6p's
Fits perfectly to talk about T hawk lol
@@5715klin real Potemkin
My hitbox is on display here too 😅😅
Thanks for having me once again!
bro out here low profiling with the hair
Middle finger emoji, middle finger emoji, and another middle finger. Just for you LK~💕
that's your ggxx sol sidewinder sweetspot 💀💀
Amazing with the T-Hawk part 😂
Always cool to see you two !
As much as I love looking at your lovely faces, half the time your big mugs are hiding the action. LK: "Look at this" *action entirely hidden behind jmcrofts*
There were some periods in SFV where people were getting results with Alex. He was never high tier as far as I could tell, but character specialists were doing some work with him.
Who bro ? Cause I was doing a spreadsheet and could not find results for Alex. Only two
I'm pretty sure Alex in the final season is pretty good
@@KemetShamar gunfight got good placement but only 1 win I think and Problem X won saltmine once with Alex from what I seen. It was Bison or Honda that he won the most with. Alex was still a cool character tho
@@toberone5158yeah he was high mid tier
@@KemetShamar That was Red Bull Kumite
Kanji had to be held back. He had the most devastating weapon of all time…. The Chair 🪑
The folding chair of equality 🤣
one thing jm didn't touch on with alex in 3s is how parry completely counters the stomp. you simply pick either back or forward when you see him do it, and you OS the move with block and parry if you time it correctly.
Fuck man why can't they make my guy good. Actually was he good in SF3 vanilla (TNG?) I know nobody ever touches the first two games of SF3 anymore but I think the first one didn't have Ryu/Ken/Chun
@@The_SOB_II
There's a channel called riiya who went over SF3 New Generation in exhaustive mechanical detail last year. It's a great watch, and probably the most knowledge about New Gen that has ever been compiled in the modern age.
@@The_SOB_II New Generation has Ryu and Ken, who it doesn't have is Chun-Li and Akuma.
Alex straight up violated that giant...
In more ways than one.
These collabs are fun! Next time I wanna see what grapplers are broken in there own game c
I loooove these collabs when experienced players talk and compare characters from different games
ArcSys doing a Persona 5 game would have sold an unbelievable amount. Also, SF3 is one of those games that will look good forever.
Idk how to do this... You are the GOAT in your involvement and your vision. I'm just here to appreciate it. You have knowledge that helps everyone
I do like how ArcSys very blatantly used Slayer as a template for all of Margaret's animations in P4 Arena. As if Iron Tager in Blaz Blue using Potemkin's old X2 sprite template wasn't goofy enough.
Me, seeing LK pick Feeeza despite his huge glow-up in patch 1.32: "Does he know?"
But seriously, Freeza just has rough matchups, i.e. characters who can completely ignore his zoning like Z Bully and Cooler. He's at the very least high tier in any case
Cooler having a winning matchup against his little brother is canonically true
The final patch of DBFZ should not be seen as part of it's history, that was clearly them saying "Stop playing our game"
@@AgentSephiroth
*1.33. 1.32 was the patch before this one.
Also, lmfao! I see you're one of _those_ players. The latest patch (give me a source where they said it was the final one) is the best patch we've ever gotten.
They made the game fun again and literally every character is genuinely viable. Not that fake ass balance in S3 that people swear exists. A lot of people are coming back to the game and expressing interest in it when they didn't care about DBFZ before. Sounds like a you problem
@@Kitsune986 Agreed, I think people's negative reaction to this patch comes from an aversion to change. This is some of the most fun I've ever had with this game.
I watched the video and I'm still confused as to why Frieza is there😭. I gotta play this man LK
Got to do the biggest glow ups in fighting games.
Hey jm - thanks so much for the video, so interesting to watch : ) I'm curious, though - and maybe you could make an extra video about that?? Please? - what goes into balancing decisions in fighting games, in your opinion? Like in SF6, most would agree that Zangief is low-tier and likely the worst character in the game. There'd be a couple of easy tweaks Capcom could make to make him more viable without him immediately jumping to top tier or being anything close to broken, like his Lariat hitting cross-ups for example. (this might happen in the future, of course) And other characters seem to be top or at least high-tier in most Street Fighter iterations. So what is it that influences these balancing decisions? Is it character popularity (Gief is pretty popular, interestingly enough), is it fan service to make some of the oversexualized female characters top tier, is it marketing, to buff the characters which are the face of the franchise? I'd be dying to hear your opinion on that. Couldn't find a video like that anywhere online, only some that talk about how to balance games in general, but nothing about which strategies or thoughts by the devs might influence decisions in balancing the roster.
It seems like a lot of these picks are characters that intentionally break the established rules of their games. Even the standard grappler character often violates some of the rules established by other characters in their game (e.g. strikes are usually stronger than throws).
I think this is the source of the problem. Characters like that are insanely hard to balance, because they're hard to compare numerically to other characters. Either the strong parts are going to be too strong, or the weak parts too weak, and the only way to know for certain is to play 100s of matches.
That's the theory we've all heard but in what games are grapplers actually top tier?
@@TheRealSorav
DBFZ, lol
@@TheRealSoravthe only games I've seen grapplers be top tier in is when they have a win condition that is stronger than the grab (and basically don't have to play as a grappler lol)
@@NeoBoneGirl AKA Broly who's also the games best zoner and has tons of armor on everything (and still isn't top top tier). KoF is the only series that really gives them a fair shake.
@@TheRealSorav maybe not top tier but grapplers are generally allowed to be good in kof games. Shermie, clark and orochi yashiro are pretty good in kof xv for example
Honorable mention should go to Sheeva from Mortal Kombat. PNDK&M did a great video about her competitive history.
The shortened version is she was bottom 1 in all 3 versions of MK3 and MK9, due to her large hurtbox and poor defensive options making it so a lot of other characters could easily keep her out with projectiles, safely pressure her to hell, or even infinite her. In MK Armageddon she was okay at best. Nothing terribly bad, but nothing exceptional. But, Armageddon has like 60 characters, so just being okay is even less impressive than usual.
MK11 was the only time she was good, but she was DLC and I only remember her being played during her "newest DLC character is really broken. Buy em!" phase. I didn't keep up with MK11 competitively, and Ketchup's video was released while the game was still receiving updates and support. I also don't know how she ranks now that competitive MK11 has custom variations, which kind of revamped a good chunk of the roster.
I think a video where some characters got nerfed to hell/fell from grace would be a fun one. An example would be Ibuki got dethroned as a top tier in the transition from second impact to third strike.
I'm glad Dan isn't in here as I played him as a secondary in USF4 and while in vanilla he's useless by the end of the game's lifespan he's arguably not bottom/low tier. Using the S-A-B-C-D rating system I would honestly put him in C or even C+. His tatsu in particular is rather good.
I’m pretty sure the crouch mp hurtbox is there to make wiff punishing easier and they went way overboard. Not a glitch.
LK hasn’t played dbfz since season 3.5, can’t really blame him for the frieza pick, he was pretty bad until the buffs started adding up lol. Friezas kinda busted now
He's been good for 3 patches I just kinda wish he'd done a bit more research lol
@KJpixelFGC Idk if I would put Frieza as being high tier. I think most of the top players consider him to be on the high end of mid tier.
Regardless of how you rank Frieza, the fact LK chose him confuses the hell out of me.
Mostly because Trunks exists, is hot garbage, and has been hot garbage for basically the entire lifespan of the game.
LK talking about Frieza's level 3 being good. Should totally check out Trunks' level 3. Especially after talking about Alex's super whiffing on a reaction jump to the screen freeze.
@@markushavens8669 you don’t know what your talking about Lol. Frieza is definitely high tier, he’s just short of top 10 in my eyes maybe higher.
and trunks from season 3 and on has been high tier to pretty terrifying now, but people just say he is bad because they don’t want to take the time to learn a technical character.
The only character who has always been mid to low tier imo is dbs broly. He has damage but that’s pretty much it.
Would love to see one of these with a Smash content creator, I feel like Ganondorf would go on this list 100%
Zelda is also a contender
Honest Content made a vid like that iirc
He was mid tier in melee tho
Yeah and he's bottom 2 in 3 games out of the 4 he's in, that averages out to bad. It doesn't help that bottom 2 in brawl is basically instant lose.
upper low tier in melee, bottom 1 in every game since
I like the variety of games LordKnight brought in this video (:
LK had to put a box over his head to keep the Millia downplaying from getting out. Homie wanted to put her in the video so bad 😢
Jokes aside I love these collab videos and hope we can keep getting more in the future!
As someone who really likes playing Frieza, I'm not surprised at all.
Luckily he's a high tier character and LK just hasn't been keeping up with the game, lol
@@Kitsune986 I hope that's true, but it also means I have no excuses when I get wrecked by a Vegito. That would mean I just need to get good, and that's real pressure.
Frieza has been a good character for 3 patches now LK just hasn't kept up with the game
Love LK colabs
That background got me thinking about the soundtrack and little fat kid of this stage in SFIV. Dam SFIV was a great game
Frieza was crazy OP in old dragonball z fighting games, but to be fair those games were never that competitive anyway. Budokai actually had some crazy complicated and deep mechanics and frieza was high tier or top tier in 1 and 2. Frieza was like mid tier or lower in 3 though
Alex... WHAT ARE YOU DOING TO THE GIANT???
Alex in capcom fighting evolution : Am I a joke to you!?
23:53 huh?!?!
God damn Alex's fingers are worms man
That shit is hypnotic
Why is this man talking about S3 DBFZ we're in season 5 now. That was like 4 years ago
Amazing colab, again🤌
Lord Knight became such knowledgeable in fighting games that he manifested a collision box. No hurtboxes or hitboxes because he's not here to fight.
*SNK grapplers have entered the chat*
They a whole different breed.
Clark was busted in almost every KOF game. Always near the top in most of the games.
Mr "BEEN HAD Tournament Wins", Lord "Lord Knight" Knight himself 😂
Havent seen the video yet, but how fast is T.Hawk going to be mentioned? Too fast me thinks
even his legacy is cursed they wouldn't even let his daughter cook
there is a constant hitbox on LordKnight face ;D
I know LK put down FighterZ (still wish he’d come back) but seeing the disconnect on how good of a zoner Frieza is now kinda hurt ngl. This character is a problem.
2 Friezas made it to Top 8 Evo this year. One of them was in Top 6. So he's no longer bad lol
Bro. Ollie. You do not understand how absolutely flabberghasted I was to see Frieza in the thumbnail of this video like what💀
@@KJpixelFGC to be fair, LK and JM Crofts stopped playing before the Fusion Meta patch and Lab Coat dropping. It's only the recent patches where he's been okay but with team syngery problems to now really solid with great assists. So they both completely missed this. To be fair, Frieza was struggle bus for SO MANY patches, like jfc lol
@@JFLunch I know. I just wish they'd done more research. Also isn't LK literally a Trunks player? Why no Trunks? He'd be good for this video😭
@@KJpixelFGC You have a fantastic point. That character went from okay to forever bottom 5 with players mad carrying HIM lol
2 of my fav creators tbh
Gotenks shyly hiding behind the facecam
LK's got a massive hitbox for his jaw. you could KO him without touching him. thats pretty low tier.
So for the knowledge, Anji is the most consistently low tier character in Guilty Gear. Of all his entries, he’a only been high tier ONCE in SLASH, usually falling into low tiers or lower mid. Potemkin isn’t too far behind but he has a few legitimately good appearances that save him
Anji player detected
@@NeoBoneGirl Kliff player actually, only really play +R lol
AC pot was too busted to put him on this list, and he's fine in +R too
@@mibeadorMIBEADOR PLAYS KLIFF? damn, that's my main in +R. I am an initiate in fighting games but the character just spoke to me. Master characters are usually low tier for some reason.
17:50 that’s why Luke is the new protag and not Alex lol
Most Saiyans have air launchers and most of the villains didn't in Fighterz which I thought was strange lol
The rare Active™ LK in this pair of vids
Come to think of it, seems like T. Hawk is the only SF2 character who has never been top tier in any game.
Ryu - SF2 HF, Vanilla SF4, Vanilla SFV
Ken - 3rd Strike, SF6
Chun-Li - ST, 3rd Strike, SSF4, Vanilla SFV
Guile - SF2 from WW to HF, SSF4, SFV Season 2, SF6
Honda - SSF4
Blanka - CvS2, possibly SF6?
Dhalsim - ST, Alpha 3
Zangief - Alpha 3
Balrog - ST, SFV Season 2
Vega - ST, Alpha 3
Sagat - ST, Vanilla SF4
Bison - SF2 CE, SSF4
Cammy - SSF4 AE (not sure if it's in the original or 2012 version), probably at least one season in SFV
Fei Long - SSF4 AE (same as Cammy)
Dee Jay - SF6
Akuma - ST, Alpha 3, Multiple versions of SF4 and SFV
I probably missed some other notable placements, but it gets the point across.
Would be funny if T. Hawk was secretly top tier in Zero 3 Upper or Alpha 3 MAX, just to complete everything, but there doesn't seem to be any documentation of those versions to know for sure.
I get Kanji, but Labrys is… hoo boy. Labrys is… certainly a character.
Fun fact: Frieza is only bad because AcrSys does not know how to buff him. They only really buff Golden Frieza while ignoring regular Frieza
hes broken now since the may patch though
@@rikibdgd4764 Yeah this new patch really jacked a lot of characters up, but I don't think he's broken per say. He's definitely gotten a lot better but characters like Beerus and for some god forsaken reason SSJ4 Gogeta getting MASSIVE buffs, as well as almost all of the cast getting decent buffs, Frieza didn't climb too high up the ranks. He's definitely not the worst but the reason why he is so bad is because pretty much all the top tiers can ignore his zoning, or out-zone him for Z-Broly and Beerus, as well as Base Vegeta now.
@@deathstardoesstuff that was the case before he became a zoning god with 2364s australia top 3 player uses him and its kinda impossible to get in especially with characters who are not called ssj4 gogeta with a projectile invuln hitbox move like beerus has his 2m and 16 has his 236h but it doesnt really work against freezers broken 2364s
@@rikibdgd4764 Oh yeah, I forgot him and S-Broly got that buff. In that case I'd say yeah he's definitely a lot better off than I thought. I'd probably give him high A tier more than low S tier but an argument could be made for either.
@@deathstardoesstuff him and SUPER BROLY????? that dog water character slow ball is absolutely mid with the landing lag it gives him and the ball not continuing to go after it lands on the ground (im half joking by dogwater hes b- at worst but still the worst char in the game pretty clearly)
I was under the impression T hawk could checkmate off of any hit. Didn't damdai spend a bunch of time showing that off in tournament?
They should've given Frieza access to more moves when he Goes Golden like waht they did with Adult Gohan levels.
LK looking like GT Vegeta with that stash
I would have chosen Dee Jay in SFIV, cause whenever the buffed something he had, they nerfed it at the same time.
Ono really didn't know what to do with him 😂
He's top 5 in SFVI now, doesn't count anymore. Even then, he was solid in Super Turbo iirc.
@@Skallva I thought they were naming characters that were bad in all versions of a single game
@@ZhangLiao07 Nope. Across the board. It's just that in some cases, 'across the board' means throughout the game's update cycle.
Totally thought someone was gonna choose zangief and open that recent can of worms
Its not that weird of a pick because he is basically the worst in the game, so he is "bad"
Frieza does not belong in this video lol
Nah it's accurate
Keep in mind for modern games with FGS getting constant patches especially DBFZ Frieza being almost always terrible is very notable
@@irisstarsterio True but the problem is the version of Frieza he is talking about is most certainly not low tier and most of the examples he gave of why he is just aren't true anymore at all. I feel there could've been more research put into that topic.
Hey jmcrofts do you know the new released game Pocket Bravery?
ganondorf. nuff said
Ganon was mid tier in melee.
But yeah they totally hate the character for some reason
Now freeze player enjoy too much the invincible frame one golden reversal back to neutral lol 😂❤
First character that comes to mind is Street Fighter Dan
Alex was like top half p damn good in the last season of sf5, but yeah he was ass for the rest of the lifespan
Kanji was my main and did not feel at all weak, if anything he carried me pretty damn far lol
I wonder if they'll add Black Frieza.
LK NOT THE SQUARE AGIAN
Why does Lord Knight got the cube??
Grapplerzade not for beginners, low tiers are hold to master but S tier
Didnt alex also have a snap back in tvc? Like only two did and he was one of them
Yep, Alex is the only non-giant to have a Snapback in UAS (JP only Daimao has one). I'm frankly not sure jm has Alex pegged here. What's changed since back when I played UAS? He has actual combos, can air combo into a reset command grab for big damage, that infernal j.H, has an unblockable on incoming characters after their partner is downed... Yeah his Lv3 still has the same jump out problem, but he hardly needs it.
I mean, sure if everyone else has got better than him I suppose that's one thing. But "joke character" is kind of going too far. Not even speaking as an Alex user.
How do you do what LK was talking about at 05:51
Another character that is pretty much always bad in every version of the game is Ganondorf in smash bros. He is best in melee but still mid tier. Every other game he is mid-bottom. But he is always fun to play.
SNK bros correct me if I’m wrong but has Billy Kane ever been good
Maybe not very strong but fairly decent, can not say the same for whip she’s been trash since her conception.
He was super good in KOF 2002.
He was also really strong in Real Bout Fatal Fury 2.
Other than those two, he’s meh.
Top tier in 2002 vanilla
@@eddD14 Whip is viable in 2002 vanilla
@@vOddy75 almost every character is viable in the hands of a good player but she has more whitenesses than most.
Hummm i guess LK didn't see he's huge glow up from 1.32 or even now 1.33 then again he hasn't played since season 3.5
Frieza's been good since 1.31 lol. And yet we still got people thinking he's bad.
@@KJpixelFGC yooooo wsg KJ
@KJpixelFGC yea I agree that frieza was good in 1.31 but most people seem to forget that so I just said 1.32
@@torankusu3445 yo
@@torankusu3445 I'm ngl Frieza being in this video kinda annoys me😭. It gives people the impression that he's still under par when in reality he's been kickin it for 3 patches. I just wish LK had done more research.
Grapplers just in general fit this title lol
Kyosuke (Capcom vs. SNK 2)
Frieza having the powerup level 3 screwed him so much.
How so? And he's super strong now. Easy high tier
@@Kitsune986 It's because Arcsys would always buff the Golden Frieza form only, never touching base Frieza, and even nerfing him a bit sometimes.
So, rather than playing a decent character that has a strong ace in the hole transformation, the only benefit to play Frieza is for Golden Frieza.
@@ab14967
Lol, I know that was the meme. Arcsys only ever buffed Goden Freeza. But they finally gave him great buffs to "normal" Freeza in patch 1.32
@@Kitsune986 And thank god for that. But that still doesn't argue against the point that having the transformation ironically kept him as a low tier for a long time.
OMG!!!! Alex did a face Fok to the giants??? Nanieeeeeee!!! 😂😂😂
I know it’s been about a year or 2 since I seen lord knight but seems like he aged bout 20 or 30 years since I last seen him 😅
@SpiteHook and grew alot of grey too… I’m not talking $hit I like LN
Wonder if we’ll ever get to a point where slapping the hell put of a fightstick on a vid will be not necessary.
Every time LK is in these types of videos he always gotta bring up dragon ball lmao
Like wym this character us ALWAYS High/Low tier
it's just 1 game with several seasons it's always a weird pick if you ask me
Like it a lot when he talks about games with many entries/rereleases as opposed to games that just have updates
Exactly db should not be mention not even persona in my opinion, the format it’s cool but it lacks of variety.
Lily buffs will change everything 😈
Alex is good in street fighter five season 5 though, high tier for sure
For me I'd have to say Alex from Street Fighter being generally pretty bad to mid in basically every game he's appeared in.
I should have waited, i was expecting Hugo or Twelve to be picked for SF3 from JMCrofts
Hugo is actually very solid in Third Strike. He’s mid tier as a character. In the right hands he damn near unstoppable.
Now Twelve? He’s just awful in every conceivable way.
@@OrtadragoonX As a 12 main, you're right lol
Lord Knight's hair/beard says that he should be in his 40s, but his face says he should be in his 20s.
The man is supposedly in his 50s. It makes no sense. I WANT THAT!
@@chillaxboi2109 What????
@@smoothsavage2870 Exactly. It don't make sense, ask him in any video.
I hate that Zangief hasn’t been any good since vanilla SF4
Alex was top mid tier in SFV tho
My vote goes to Ganondorf. He's always been mid at best. But at least he can suavemente.
Zelda might be even worse. Ganondorf at least is mid tier in Melee but Zelda has been low or bottom tier in every game
@@bulb9970and it hurts because I always a Zelda main. I love her play style. But you WORK so hard just to do anything with her.
I've been told multiple times that a grappler being high tier (or even just good) is a sign of bad game design and I'm still not entirely sure why that is.
it's just bc people hate playing against them. some of the big franchises have had a top tier big body grappler once (AC potemkin, Abigail before nerfs) and people act like they have PTSD from those times. but it might also just be hard to balance, in sf6 I think gief is supposed to be weak but lily and manon are pretty unique grapplers and new characters they must want to be popular. unique strengths are hard to balance though, so they erred on the weaker side. as to why people hate them, people hate 'robbery' characters and they're the only ones that rob you for blocking.
Most players think all games should be rushdown
I'm pretty sure theoryfighter made a good video on it.
Me, an aki main laughing in second to bottom tier
lmao, that headbutt is Sussy
Why is it that the face of the guy on green is boxed while yours was not? Is it because bald head looks ugly in a box?
JM please play Pocket Bravery! The game is very fun to play and has rollback netcode
What other games was Frieza was bad in?
If Morrigan isn't here I'll be salty.
She's bad in every game she appears in, minus Marvel 3. I guess CvS2 as well, but she's more mid tier than outright bad.
Idk about Frieza. He is my main right from the start and I do very well with him. Imo he is pretty solid and can also be very deadly.
Grapplers just need a really patient Mindgame. So they aren't that bad, but hard to pull off
I disagree with almost every point LK made I have no idea why Frieza is in this video when he's currently a high tier😭
Frieza is not low tier anymore he's ascended, I didn't watch the video yet
Most of his points are outdated. He hasn't been keeping up with the game which is why.
5 frames of startup is slow? isn't a jab literally like 3 to 4 frames in most games?
Yes and yes
You said it yourself. Before he even starts jumping, someone could interrupt it, nevermind in the air, you know?
24:29 ah yes hit them whit the meat machine.
Ya know, I guess I just don't really like LK.
Gamma is good T-Hawk
It's been 13 years and tager has not been a good character once