Any concerns with the Advantech SFA reacting with the foam? Do you have lateral requirements? If so, how does this impact that since neither company has testing data for this application? Nice job with the video and editing. Lots to figure out going forward as we tackle continuous insulation.
Great questions! We did some wingnut style testing on the adhesive a few years ago. It bonds to XPS pretty well, and doesn't eat away at the foam. (turns out they are chemical cousins.) We know that it bonds to wood as well, so it was a logical choice. We've used this on a few projects now and also with a pvc sheet to xps panel with success. The long term adhesion isn't known, but considering how easily the Iso releases from the ZIP, I'm not overly concerned. The glue needs to last long enough to get the panel on the wall. We do have shear requirements, but they are all met within the framing before the panels. The engineer is treating these with the same values as designing for the ZIP R12 product. We're about 8 years into working with this kind of system now. It gets easier, but there's still quite a bit of thinking around layout and tools that needs constant tweaking. Glad you enjoyed it!
@@oadesignbuildarchitecture9688 How do you get your lateral resistance? That's what we are figuring out with ZIP R6. Our engineer has us tighten up nailing but the time will come when we need more shear than the panel will provide (e.g large windows in a shorter wall).
This video is awesome and very informative! I am curious to know why not use Zip System R-6 and then Dens Glass on top of it? Was it price point? Thank you!
Hi, Thanks. No, it wasn't a price thing. Georgia Pacific a sponsor of this episode, so we were happy to use their product. We wanted to check it out, anyway. Also, we wanted to show that you can make insulated panels on site. It solves some nailing problems with continuous exterior insulation and creates some airsealing problems. Spray foam or interior cavity air sealing must accompany built-up panels like this. At least that's what the smart people tell me. We also used similar panels for an exposed floor system, made with PVC sheets and Styrofoam. Stay tuned for that video.
R6 also doesn't quite get us to where we want to be. R10 continuous (2" exterior insulation) gets us close to 50/50 exterior/ interior insulation. It also removes the requirement for a vapor retarder.
Thanks!! We're up in Climate Zone 6, so we would typically use ZIP R12. Sometimes it is easy to get, sometimes it is hard to get, so the opportunity to explore and share solutions using readily available materials (Dupont and GP) was pretty exciting!
Just used forcefield for the first time on a barn. Compared to zip, Zip’s coating is more durable. But compared to regular house wrap they both are better in air and water protection. Forcefield $15 cheaper per sheet compared to zip in my area. I am moving forward with a house build using forcefield. At the end of the day I would prefer to use zip but 20-30 years from now either will perform their job equally behind cladding.
Great choice! I think waterproof sheathing is the future, and the future is now. Every company will need to make their own waterproof OSB product like Zip. It's a no-brainer. Mass production reduces cost and increases quality. Just having to tape the seams reduces so much job site work and error. I predict the tape will also be replaced in the future, either with a one-step liquid application gun, or rabbet joints with pre-applied seals for less taping where applicable.
I know, right? and if the crew was going to tape the seams of the housewrap, anyway, then taping the seams of sheathing adds zero extra time. It just saves time and reduces errors.
I think what happened is that Zip developed a roof sheathing product and realized, "Heck, this works great for walls, too," whereas Forcefield was developed as a wall product.
I agree. I think they will both perform equally well over the long term. Especially if paired with a rain screen that allows for rapid draining and drying behind the cladding.
Any concerns with the Advantech SFA reacting with the foam? Do you have lateral requirements? If so, how does this impact that since neither company has testing data for this application?
Nice job with the video and editing. Lots to figure out going forward as we tackle continuous insulation.
Great questions! We did some wingnut style testing on the adhesive a few years ago. It bonds to XPS pretty well, and doesn't eat away at the foam. (turns out they are chemical cousins.) We know that it bonds to wood as well, so it was a logical choice. We've used this on a few projects now and also with a pvc sheet to xps panel with success. The long term adhesion isn't known, but considering how easily the Iso releases from the ZIP, I'm not overly concerned. The glue needs to last long enough to get the panel on the wall. We do have shear requirements, but they are all met within the framing before the panels. The engineer is treating these with the same values as designing for the ZIP R12 product. We're about 8 years into working with this kind of system now. It gets easier, but there's still quite a bit of thinking around layout and tools that needs constant tweaking. Glad you enjoyed it!
@@oadesignbuildarchitecture9688 How do you get your lateral resistance? That's what we are figuring out with ZIP R6. Our engineer has us tighten up nailing but the time will come when we need more shear than the panel will provide (e.g large windows in a shorter wall).
I agree with the ding dong above.
This video is awesome and very informative! I am curious to know why not use Zip System R-6 and then Dens Glass on top of it? Was it price point? Thank you!
Hi, Thanks.
No, it wasn't a price thing. Georgia Pacific a sponsor of this episode, so we were happy to use their product. We wanted to check it out, anyway.
Also, we wanted to show that you can make insulated panels on site. It solves some nailing problems with continuous exterior insulation and creates some airsealing problems. Spray foam or interior cavity air sealing must accompany built-up panels like this. At least that's what the smart people tell me.
We also used similar panels for an exposed floor system, made with PVC sheets and Styrofoam. Stay tuned for that video.
R6 also doesn't quite get us to where we want to be. R10 continuous (2" exterior insulation) gets us close to 50/50 exterior/ interior insulation. It also removes the requirement for a vapor retarder.
Thanks!! We're up in Climate Zone 6, so we would typically use ZIP R12. Sometimes it is easy to get, sometimes it is hard to get, so the opportunity to explore and share solutions using readily available materials (Dupont and GP) was pretty exciting!
Good Job. Forcefield is NOT available in the Pacific Northwest yet.
Glad you like it. I am sure that one of these days it will be available.
Check HomeDepot available there nationwide.
Just used forcefield for the first time on a barn. Compared to zip, Zip’s coating is more durable. But compared to regular house wrap they both are better in air and water protection. Forcefield $15 cheaper per sheet compared to zip in my area. I am moving forward with a house build using forcefield. At the end of the day I would prefer to use zip but 20-30 years from now either will perform their job equally behind cladding.
Great choice! I think waterproof sheathing is the future, and the future is now. Every company will need to make their own waterproof OSB product like Zip. It's a no-brainer. Mass production reduces cost and increases quality. Just having to tape the seams reduces so much job site work and error. I predict the tape will also be replaced in the future, either with a one-step liquid application gun, or rabbet joints with pre-applied seals for less taping where applicable.
I know, right? and if the crew was going to tape the seams of the housewrap, anyway, then taping the seams of sheathing adds zero extra time. It just saves time and reduces errors.
I think what happened is that Zip developed a roof sheathing product and realized, "Heck, this works great for walls, too," whereas Forcefield was developed as a wall product.
Both products invented by the same person. He recommends FF for walls due to the price savings.
I agree. I think they will both perform equally well over the long term. Especially if paired with a rain screen that allows for rapid draining and drying behind the cladding.
Finally, a window wrapped correctly. There is a fuking god. Woohoo
:)
YES!!! So glad you agree!! (about the window flashing part, I mean.)
4:57 Zero-GWP Styrofoam?
Thats HUGE
Yeah. That's a big reason why we like to use it in the show. It solves a lot of problems at much lower cost than the old XPS.
Great video but please get rid of the distortion sound effect (@5:33)
agree to disagree!