We renovated our 25 year old Vermont Farm house. We stripped the West and South sides (direction of the weather, water and wind) down to the studs. I was shocked at the amount of rot under the windows !!! Replacing all the rot (2x6 and plywood), we then added 2.5” Zip System with new Anderson windows, taped the heck out of everything, then added Hardi-plank siding. Our heating needs dropped in HALF and the house is much more comfortable when the -30++ degree Vermont Winds start blowing. We will be renovating our 300 year old post-beam barn into 2 apartments and then a new house. Both will be built with many of the modern building principles Matt talks about in his videos. We are looking for homes that can stand for a hundred years before renovations are required to fix rot…..vs 10-20 years!! Thank you for the great information.
INCREDIBLY useful video Matt. Please do more like this where you present alternative build methods and whole house costs. It really gives a useful education on home building options. Does anyone make a product like the Zip R-Sheathing product that uses plywood instead of OSB? That would be a killer product!
Keep in mind the 1.5"+ Zip-R has less sheer than just a thicker plywood product because the foam is pulling on itself. If you're building for hurricane or even just more stringent code and you want the thick stuff your engineer may as you to include staggered nogging, 1-by or steel wire let-in bracing to make up for the lost tear strength.
In Canada, Quebec province at least, the building code says that we need R-4 insulation on the outside of the studs to break the thermal bridge. Since that building code is in effect, we saw many different products come to market like the Zip-R. I work in a prefab walls, trusses and floor joists company and we think that some of these products are good but prefer using either OSB or plywood and put the insulation above the sheeting. The reason is simple, shear strenght! When you nail a sheeting to a stud with a 1" of foam in between, the nail becomes very weak. Shear strenght is exponentially lower. Sheeting nailed directly to the studs is way stronger. Then we add something like Atlas R-Board (polyiso with a weather shield included) and strapping. Fhat makes nice and strong wall panels. All our walls are made with 2x6 with at least R-20 fiberglass insulation. Total R value for our "typical" wall panel is a little above R-30. Building code says R-29.5 is required where we are (including the R-4 to break the thermal bridge).
@@onlyscience7120 in fact the foam we use on the outside, when we look at the spec sheet, it says that they are air barrier, but not vapor barrier. So we have vapor barrier inside and air barrier outside.
@@22bungalow Most of the times, windows are screwed from the inside of the frame. Windows manufacturers build windows that way here. Outside flange on the windows is just a weather protection, no screws there. So, the flange sits over the foam of the wall, and everything is well taped out with a good red tape. On some commercial project, engineers asks us to put a 2x3 around all openings in the walls. I don't know if they screw their commercial grade windows on that 2x3 or not though. Windows are installed on site, so I really don't know how they proceed there.
So the window screws into the framing IN the wall, or screws into the interior face of the framing? I did a school up in Alaska where they framed and insulated normal, did the windows nailed to the sheathing, THEN added like 4 or 5” of eps foam to the outside of the building and then metal siding. They ran metal trim into the windows. Walls ended up about r30 I think. The roof was 12” of eps minimum, which is r50. I’ve been in Montreal a lot, that cold off the st lawerence is penetrating!
I noticed that on the deck rebuild you explained the screws to use and the lenth of the screws. Could you do a show explaining how to choose the right nails for each job and why? It would really be helpful for us beginners. Thank you.
Lol! Cheapest I can find it local(ish) as of Feb. 2024 is $120 per for the ZIP-R R6. So this stuff is now prohibitively expensive for most, whereas plywood isn't a whole lot more atm.
I'm glad you mentioned the pull out value of screws and nails when comparing the sheathing. When installing exterior cladding systems such as a metal roof this is a critical consideration. Most metal roof manufacturers, for example, are asking that you install into 1/2" minimum grade A plywood. Many of them do not want you using anything less than 3/4" OSB if you are going that route.
Matt as an Architect in Ontario Canada I can point out one serious problem with the pre-insulated zip panels. The wood sheathing is an important part the of the structure and needs to be place directly on the studs for maximum strength, so the continuous insulation should be placed outside the structural wall sheathing. Most contractors do not fully understand all the functions that the exterior wall sheathing does. 1 it provides very good lateral load resistance... ie racking resistance. 2 it is critical for transfer of wind up lift back down to the foundation. to do this the sheathing needs to be placed directly on the wood studs so the nail fasteners act in shear. It also means the fast cheap way of sheathing a structure ie with the horizontal joint(s) aligned with joints in the wood structure (as 98% of framers around here do) is completely unacceptable. for the sheathing to act as a diaphragm and resist the wind up lift all the horizontal joints are to occur on a common structural element . starting at the top of the concrete foundation. the sill plate is anchored to the foundation with anchor bolts at 48" oc (max) .. the wall sheathing is fastened to the sill plate at 6" oc and ideally with a bead of PL Premium construction adhesive and the sheathing spans across the floor assembly up the studs at least 12" so you can get 3 fasteners (min) into each stud and 2 into the rim board (per stud location). At second floor level the upper wall sheathing extends down 12" min onto the stud wall below again 3 fasteners per stud and 2 into the rim board. As an alternate you can locate the sheathing horizontal joint on the rim board and fasten at 6" oc (max) plus I also recommend PL adhesive onto the rim board if the joint occurs on the rim board. and finally the double top plate at the u/s of the roof is secured to the wall studs below via the sheathing not just the top plate toe nailed into the studs. The truss hold down clips are to be installed on the exterior side of the wall into the top plate or ideally left until the sheathing is installed so the clips fasten through the sheathing into the top plate(s) (top and bottom plate) and thus places the wind up lift force in the same plane as the sheathing which is the main structural element resisting the up lift. I had a project where the structural engineer made the framing contractor install Simpson Tie hold down straps on every stud to bridge across the horizontal joints in the sheathing because the framer placed sheathing joints at the underside of the 2nd floor joist and at the top of the 2nd floor floor sheathing.. ie inline with joints in the structural frame.... the framer was not a happy camper. but the framer failed to follow the design drawings and the Simpson tie was the easiest solution to fix his mistake. Personally I don't like the Zip sheathing system, for the cost of the zip system you can install a proper vapour permeable Air/Moisture Membrane like BlueSkin VP (or similar product). And if I can get the client (home owner) to agree, use plywood vs OSB for sheathing.. ideally 5/8" T&G plywood installed horizontally with vertical joints staggered (just like you would on a floor assembly) then wrap with BlueSkin VP. example of cost 2019 07 21 in Ontario Canada 7/16 OSB 4x8 = $10.25 ...... 5/8 OSB 4x8 T&G = $17.95 ...... 1/2 plywood 4x8 = $25.44 ..... 5/8" plywood 4x8 = $33.95 (for butt edge or T&G) could only find online price for zip sheathing at US store (example Lowes USA) = $27.05 USD = $35.33 CAD and BlueSkin VP100 is about $1.00 CAD per sqft
I was thinking the same thing. Sheathing's primary function is to add structural rigidity and it's pretty intuitive that that has got to be compromised when the stud surface and the sheathing surface are farther apart. With that in mind, wouldn't 3/4" plywood be the most rigid, and if you were really going cost-no-object, wouldn't 3/4" marine grade plywood be the ultimate, since it uses harder, more water-resistant woods and better adhesives? More and better fasteners would help, too... standard nails < ring shank nails < screws. Matt did another video where he used a wall assembly of 3/4" plywood/sheet steel/3/4" plywood as sheathing, which was able to stop bullets and wind-driven 2x4s. With a super-strong wall like this, I would imagine bolts would be best to fasten the assembly to the studs.
@@talonhall7385 standard/common abbreviations on architectural drawings.... u/s = under side t/s = top side t/o = top of rso = rough stud opening fos = face of stud fob = face of block
Thanks for the response with a bonus, Steve. You said: "u/s = under side, t/s = top side, t/o = top of rso = rough stud opening, fos = face of stud, fob = face of block"
Steve McKerroll dude, I might be an architect. But this shit is wayyyy over engineered. Arch’s and engineers add such an unnecessary amount of cost to modern day homes.
i using this channel to help me design my sisters house. I love architecture and drafting but i have some major gaps in knowledge since i haven't even started school yet.
@@linc0292 Happy to educate you on how the economy works and how 45's reckless spending, tax cuts, stimulus, deficit spending, pressuring the Fed for QE, pressuring the Fed for endless printing and negative real rates, etc etc all led to inflation...which Brandon has the courage to fix.
I would like to see a more complete price breakdown. For example, compare: OSB + Weather Wrap + vapor barrier = How much to do a 3000 sq ft house. Then Plywood + Weather Wrap + Vapor Barrier = how much. Then Zip + Seal Tape + nail hole fillers = how much. In other words - to get from the frame to be ready for finished siding - what would the total costs be and what steps can be skipped or are better/worse with each system. Maybe Zip + tape is cheaper overall and so it's a way better system. Or maybe zip + tape is way more expensive and only marginally better protection compared to more common building methods.
To further expand I would love to know how well the taped wall seams hold up over rigorous testing compared to traditional OSB + kyvek overlapped. Does the adhesive last as long? Is it easier or harder to properly place compared to the fewer tyvek seams you would need? How about the fact that you are technically creating a reverse shingle effect when taping roof panels, so how do those hold up over time compared to OSB with roofing paper.
Nobody will reveal their cost; unless your built a house one day hire your own crew and purchase all material by yourself all this guy never ever will know if those product last , product guarantees always said 10 to 20 so.. nobody has the answer yet
@@jaandel1 That's a good point. Out of curiosity I did a tiny bit of googling and found a few forums on the topic, blogs, etc. Huge variety of responses. One contractor's blog was about how Zip isn't worth it. One forum string seemed like a bunch of contractors saying they won't work without Zip. One post even brought up some organizations having done independent testing on things like vapor permeability and such. Building science is super fascinating to me. If there was an in-depth academic-level assessment of these different methods of building I would watch the shit out of it.
Zip isn't available here in ohio unless you special order it. What would it take to do foam board + osb + steps to make it ready? Would you glue foam board to osb or would you hang them seperatly?
@@idontwantachannelimjustcom7745 matt has plenty of videos on that... its all separate unless u use the zip. Which is why zip is so sweet. Saves on labor bug time
Saw a video by This Old House. Tom Silvia was helping a homeowner find a system to protect his windows during a hurricane. 1/2" OSB was punched through like it wasn't even there when fired upon by a 2x4 moving at 34 mph to simulate hurricane wind driven debris. The only system to really stand up and absorb the impact without being damaged in some fashion was genuine plywood.
Zip wall is the way to go; You save a buck or two using Tyvek or similar house wrap but; I like the idea of being able to finish exterior immediately..
If you choose higher r value zip, this would have to be taken into consideration before pouring the foundation especially if you have brick as this will really bring it out over the ledger.. which increases the cost of concrete needed
I have used osb for exposed interior sheathing in a shop, and noticed one downside is the glue off gases for decades....and is even worse when the space is heated. Plywood has glue as well, but generally hidden under a final ply....osb has far more glue which is exposed unless painted.
Very interesting! I'd be curious to know what the wall assembly costs are for each type to really compare everything involved (alternate insulation, vapor barrier, etc.) and see which system is most cost and time effective as whole.
Great comparison and really appreciate your videos. According to my calculations here on Long Island (NY) the cost of 1/2 OSB is 55% higher, 1/2 Ply is 26% more, and 7/16 Zip is 48% higher. I pulled the prices from the HD website and not shopped at local lumber yards.
Back in the 80s when hurricane Andrew came through and devastated central Fla, over night ALL wood prices Doubled. They said, when the boom is over the prices will come back down. 😲😲. They NEVER come back down, NEVER! They only problem to me is that the producers of The lumber industry are making double, triple and quadruple what We the consumers are having to pay!
High performance Sheathing. This is just one of the innovations that has changed the landscape. Telehandlers, boom-lifts, and track loaders have revolutionized home-building. I don't think ZIP would be economic if there weren't man-lifts to apply the tape, can you imagine the drudgery? Post-Frame construction in particular has evolved from pole shed to luxury homes. While I don't think steel-sided homes are going to be popular anytime soon, maybe they should be? Appearance aside, I have to think a construction method that lets two guys fabricate and erect a 40x60 finished shell in a couple of weeks has got to gain some traction sooner or later. All the trades from slab to finish carpentry are out of the weather along with their materials. I'd really like to know your thoughts about Post-Frame as an alternative for home-building. This guy in "Mad County Build" is making me think ... the idea of home that will need zero exterior maintenance for the 50 years is pretty intriguing. I can give some architectural detail for that.
For the relatively small increase in price for an average size home, it seems a no brainer to me to just step up to plywood and seal it really well. I'm planning to build my dream home when I retire in a few years, which will only be my 2nd home and my 1st new home, so I don't plan to cut corners. I'll probably go with 5/8 plywood or maybe even 5/8 Zip to create a really strong airtight shell. If an heirloom quality home is what you want, spending an extra few thousand dollars to ensure a strong and tight envelop is a no brainer.
This was a great comparison video. I'm looking to build a home in a couple years. Seeing the price breakdown really put things into perspective. I thought Zip was hugely expensive but it's that much more expensive than plywood. Totally worth the money.
I build in Maritime zone 5 in upper Ohio. I’ve used all the above but two years ago I shifted to Huber Zip system with the 3/4 Advantech on the floors. We use the Advantech glue and then about 50 2.75” screws per sheet. Even better, when clients will upgrade we use the Zip with the bonded foam to increase our wall efficiency. We get a good thermal brake of about 12-13R plus 2 more inches of closed cell at an R of 15. After this we dense pack fiberglass into the remaining 3.5”. We ends up with an average R value of about 35. We then blow an R60 into attics. It’s a noticeable difference in the energy costs, reduced noise and it makes for a rock solid home that will be very low maintenance costs.
Matt, Just moved into a house in upper Michigan that was built 2 years ago and discovered that it had zip sheeting (green-7/16") installed. Thanks to you, I have learned much about that siding. I have been enjoying your videos with the many rather outstanding suggestions and observations. I was a licensed builder for 25 years in Michigan and am now non-licensed as I build strictly on personally owned property. We all have our talents and gifts and I do believe that you have yours nailed down like a pole barn spike. Keep it up, if possible. Just watched a recent video where you shared some of the unsavory comments from the trolls. I am sorry for their replusiveness. Not one of those people would dare say that to your face, but I would say any of the above to you in person. I respect your experience and your knowledge. You make me think about my experiences, good and bad. Thank you.
I'll give a Canadian perspective on this. Southern Ontario here. 7/16" ZIP is over $45/sheet (special order). At 176 sheets, that's almost $8000. 7/16" OSB is under $16/sheet, totaling $2800. Two very different propositions. I would love to try ZIP, but that's a high cost of entry.
Thanks for the video Matt. But on a rhetorical/philosophical note: I don't understand why we use building/sheathing materials that desintegrate in the presence of any moisture. Houses are meant to withstand the outdoors. We know it rains. Why use OSB on the exterior of a house at all?
@@blackmanops3749 Right. But for something so permanent and hard to replace, spending the extra $1000 for plywood seems worth it to me. Then again, costs rack up quickly in construction.
we got drywood termites down here in Houston Texas, best option would be PT plywood 1/2" from the ground up; the rest gona regular plywood or osb. Its good against those pest, rot, and durable asf.
Albeit in 2021 price change, this video is STILL VERY INFORMATIVE! Thank You Mr. Risinger for taking time to make these informative videos! Sooooo appreciate it!
I doubt it has anything to do with building science and more to deal with sponsorship and getting people to think others are using it (they pay people to use it BTW).
great content Matt! perhaps you could start provide metrics when comparing these products one another in terms of trade off like ROIs or net gains or time value of $ saved from a more expensive product compared to a lower priced substitute i think that would help a lot of people make a more informed decision when choosing.
@@chromasux2 No you don't. Unless you wanna go full hog on a needlessly overcomplicated electric component too. It requires an air pump/vapor exchange to run all the time. When you seal up a house like Zip does you're begging for mold. Make a cup of coffee, boil water, exhale? That's vapor that any 'normal' house could breath out, even during a power outage. Not using Zip is a huge bullet dodged on my part that not nearly enough people are mentioning in the same breath when they promote this system, cough cough Matt Risinger.... Zip sheathing, in my non-professional opinion, is 95% marketing gimmick, 5% good idea (as in 5% of the time it's the right tool for the right job.) Use ply/osb + wrap + whatever insulation you want, just let yer friggin' houses breath yall.
Hey Matt, enjoyed watching and learning from your channel... I was wondering about the costs of insulating basement slabs and using zip sheathing vs utilty costs... How quickly are those savings noticed.... If my electric bill is $100 month, on one house without these nice insulation and another identically built one with out the basement insulation and zip sheathing.... What would the electrical bill difference be....
Tremendous video! Really great stuff. I love the pricing breakdown and comparisons. Relative to the total cost of the build, it seems very convincingly worthwhile to go with the top of the line. And I cannot see a reason why not to go with the ZIP system and save the cost, labor, and time of installing a separate barrier (along with the long term energy savings of the 2.0 installation method you have shown us). While I am not personally a big fan of poly-iso; if I were, it seems a no-brainer to go with the full size ZIP-R 12. Getting that continuous thermal break, and a moisture barrier, and the tremendous labor savings are a fantastic option. I think this product is going to be hugely successful with more discerning customers. I admit, I have watched MANY of your videos, and I find the subject of building science fascinating. I have always had an interest in it, but I have learned so much more from you. Many thanks for all the education. Keep on keepin' on!
Scorpio I totally agree with your assessment of how valuable it is. I think many owners who want to build start out planning with the best materials only to get sticker shock. Once you ask the question of how to reduce cost by 50% all high end materials get wiped off the table. One secret to success here is to plan a house “size” you can afford with top products. I can’t afford a 3k sqf house, but I can do a 1200sqf house with “some” top products. Difficult choices
Zip+ looks like a great product. Matt's right, any time a way to save labour and make a premium product at the same time is a win in my books. Labour costs can be prohibitive. I would spend $12000 on a sheathing system up here in Canada if it means some saved labour costs along with a luxury rated building envelope. A feasibility plan I recently started for "contour crafting" (3D printed building), lt almost fully revolves around cutting labour costs while combining modular design with the longevity of concrete. Up to 90% decrease in build time and up to 40% reducton in material used. Material being a special concrete mix that's 3x the cost of traditional concrete design. Due to reductions in build time through automation, labour costs inevitably are cut by close to the same margins. Less workers in total and less time spent on site.
I've just purchased zip panels to sheathing 22x22 garage. I shopped around, got 6 quotes and the cheapest price for the panels I could get in NorthEast part of Connecticut is $22.72 for 7/16'' and $33.59 for 5/8''.
Regarding the Zip R, the lateral strength of the sheathing may be jeopardized by sandwiching the rigid insulation in between the sheathing and the framing. The fasteners will have the space that the insulation gives it to move laterally due to the insulation not being as ductile as wood. If you want insulation on your house other than stud bay batt, the best option is to add it on the outside of the sheathing, such as what Matt Risinger is doing on his own Monopoly house.
A Bailey wind brace system in combo with zip would be the best option imo. But that's just my intuition I haven't broken down the costs. I know it's way faster to install wind braces than a whole other layer of sheathing
Hello Matt thank you for the informative RUclips video on OSB comparisons to the Advantix. I do have to say I’m curious why the SIPs have not taken more of market the way I feel they deserve. I’m a personal user of SIPs for a home built in NY. I actually won an award from NYS after an impressive blower door test (this was a 4000 sq ft structure). I then went on to do two more structures, I was that please for the system and was a most comfortable home. I own a SIP as manufacturer in the Northeast and we use an MGO sheathing which is waterproof, fireproof, mold/insect proof. One last excellent feature is it when you put your wall up the MGO on the interior serves as your drywall, saving you considerable labor and money. I Would love to hear your perspective on this thank you for your time. Camille - BuildGreen SIPs
There's a custom home build I drive past on my way to work, once they put the ZIP boards up they stopped working on the exterior and have been working on the interior for the last 6 months. Makes me wonder how well it holds up to UV exposure.
I got 3 pallets of zip that where left over At a huge apartment complex I helped build. They were just going to throw them away. So I asked and they gave them to me. Loaded up on my flat bed and used it when replacing my siding. With siding I had from a job I did a year ago
Any metrics on cost savings over time if you step up to the Zip R system? How long before that extra expense is justified in lower heating/cooling costs? Great info on this video, thanks.
It would also be a good comparison to see the cost difference with the equivalent R value foam board sheets on top of the base Zip system OSB. How much more expensive is it to save the labor of doing it in 2 steps.
@@danbert8 I just did this calculation about 2 months ago. 7/16" Zip sheathing + 2" XPS R-10 was $12 less expensive VS. 2.5" Zip-R12, $2 less expensive VS. 2" Zip-R9. In my case I've spec'd the Zip-R9 for its 2" thickness. The details having the sheathing on the exterior of the building seem so much easier than furring out everything over ext. foam board. So the Zip R wins hands down. Bonus comparison: 7/16" Zip sheathing with 1.5" Type-II EPS bonded to it is $10 more expensive a sheet than Zip-R9
Zip system does not save money on your heating or cooling bills .there is no savings that will get recooped by using the zip system. Take the money you will save using osb and upgrade your windows and insulation and you will be saving money everyday on heating and cooling bills .
@@Unconnect3d that is bad information .your numbers may be right but not sure the point of the insulation between sheathing and studs .sheathing needs to be tight to studs because it is a structural bond that keeps everything from racking. I would not want an inch of foam in between sheathing and studs .upgrade insulation in stud bays and upgrade windows with the money you are wasting on zip system and you will be much happier and safer
Could you add the Zip R on top of your existing OSB sheeting, on a remodel instead of insulating the outside of the house with Rockwool? Could there be any benifits for doing so? Great video. Keep up the good work!
House built in 1898. We has blown insulation. Once had it Vinyl siding done with Foam insulation board, I could not believe the difference in heat lost. Cut our heating bill Tremendously. I would definitely go with zip system if building a new home.
Thanks for being honest about cdx vs. Osb. we are sold on how great Osb is. if it gets wet, it falls apart and left to its demise will mold, and the mold will wick thew out the house I've has to re Sheth entire wall because of a leak around a window
One small problem with the Zip-R system though. Because the actual OSB panel isn't mounted flush to the framing, it doesn't provide the same racking resistance you'd get with OSB, Plywood, or standard Zip...
This is what I’m thinking, especially as you go higher in R value (thicker foam between OSB and framing). The fasteners are effectively in bending rather than shear. I’d be interested in what the shear strengths (resistance to racking) of sample wall segments would look like with the different R-value Zip sheathing. Matt, sounds like an awesome experiment video for The BUILD Show!
Extra fasteners & heavier fasteners are used to get back the strength. However the issue is driving them in to your wall studs since if your not dead-on you likely to miss the stud nor reduces contact with the stud, at least with the higher R-value Zip panels.
Considering many homes now are just being built with OSB on the corners and maybe some in the middle and the rest is just foam board, I would guess that unless you are in an earthquake or hurricane zone, the actual strength needed from the OSB is far less than you need.
I started specifying zip bd/r-sheathing about 1.5 yrs ago in the houses i design.... really great comparison... Nothing like some continuous insulation to make the international energy code council happy...
Zip-R looks amazing! Yeah concerns mentioned about loss of racking strength. Probably gotta let in some diagonal bracing like they did on old houses before plywood or add a sheet of ply on the studs first. Definitely an added cost not seen
Well talking about nail holding power, im surprised you didnt mention that sooner. Especially as it applies to the standard OSB sheathing. Drive a nail in the OSB partially. Enough to fully penetrate the board, and then remove the nail. You will be able to push another nail in the same hole with just your thumb. Now try that with plywood of the same thickness and see the difference. As for the insulation factor, assuming that all of the sheathing is installed properly and covered with some type of a good wrap before siding is installed and the house properly insulated. What percentage of the heat loss is thru the walls as opposed to thru the ceilings? Assuming of coarse that good energy efficient windows are used. Fact is that the actuall cost savings for energy is minimal when using the higher priced sheathing. The difference in material cost, plus additional labor cost for applying tape to all the seams, would take a very long time to recover with energy savings.
i guess im randomly asking but does any of you know of a trick to log back into an instagram account?? I somehow forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
@Cayson Reign thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
We don't sheathe houses in NZ like you see in North America, was so interesting to see how different you do it up there when I was there recently, and on your videos.
Where i live builders sheet the side walls with drywall. And then biuld the houses 5 feet apart. They use drywall or dense glass sheeting to prevent the whole block from burning down when one house catches fire
Interesting breakdown. The Zip system is an interesting option with the continuous insulation built in. Unfortunately these panels cannot be used for shear strength anymore, and you would need to use additional plwd sheathing, which you could place on the inside. Personally I am not a fan of foams, because they are environmentally not as friendly as other options, let’s say mineral wool.
@@kickandblock yes, but because you are using a long nail with the foam sandwiched between the osb and framing, when shear force is applied the nails will just bend, tearing the foam around them. Much less shear strength vs osb directly to the frame where the nail has to shear off. Ideally you would sandwich the foam between two pieces of osb
Melissa Kuralt Hi Melissa, install in reverse would not work because the weather resistive barrier needs to be on the exterior and nailing through the foam does not work.
Matt, great video as always. Would have like to seen a few more things in this video, namely a complete breakdown like you did for each but a complete list from cheapest to most expensive. The other things I would have liked to see probably call for another video: price of zip-r vs zip plus a poly-iso or rockwool (I love that stuff) vs traditional plywood plus a smart vapor barrier plus external insulation. As you said as far as a one step simple system, it seems like zip-r is hard to beat. Depends on the owners needs/wants as well as budget.
Cool product presentation. Loved the pre-insulated ZipR board. However, with as schlocky as some builders are (at least the crappy ones I’ve experienced personally), I can see some of those guys using nails that are just too short and on the R-12 ZipR board, end up not penetrating into the framing far enough. The end result being that the weight of your HardeeBoard siding ends up pulling off all your poorly-installed ZipR sheathing.
Not even sure why I'm watching this, I've already decided that the exterior and floors in my house will be ICF. Still, great video with good information!
WeAreTwoDoorsDown you make a better building with ICF, that gives you air and water barriers on one install. Sound resistance of ST54 or the same as a movie theater. Thermal comfort of moderation of heat flow thru mass. All I have built for 10 years.
Recent cost comparisons by myself and two builders in Colorado, by the time you do insulation air,and water barrier you exceed cost of Icf with stick frame.
I like the theory of ICF, but always have this nagging feeling about fastening to plastic tabs inside of styrofoam. Not knocking ICF, just maybe I'm too old-school for it. I would have no problem with a stick-skeleton inside an ICF exterior, but that drives the price through the roof (meaning that you treat the ICF as a masonry wall with a 1 inch gap between the interior of the ICF and the 16-on-center interior framing. Extra Rockwool insulation for giggles.).
Warning icf is perfect only in a perfect world. Pannels never install how they were expected. I love that for below grade but I'm also a big fan of real sticks above the dirt. Every application calls for a different material. One cool thing about wood is it has shearing abilities. The compressive strength of icf makes it ideal for below grade but the wiggle you have before you snap makes wood the product I would use above grade. In our real 4 season climate where I live I'd go for a full basement in icf and use lumber for the first and second floor.
Matt... What's your take on wind and sheer resistance with the Zip-R products? Any worries about 'wiggle' when the wind blows with the outside of the sheathing (and nail head) being so far from the supporting framing (where the nail will be gripping in the stud)? Esp the higher R values... Your thoughts?
Matt, I absolutely love your channel. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with everyone. You are making a big impact to building practices. What is your opinion of Barricade's Thermo-Brace Sheathing? I'm considering using it since it clams to have all of the benefits of Zip, and it costs around $8.00 for a 4x8 panel.
I haven’t seen zip in action, but look at modular homes with OSB wall sheathing with vinyl siding and notice how it bubbles out especially on a sunny section. You can try your best to fasten into studs,but it just isn’t a perfect world. Zip and OSB do lay nice and flat. Now give it some nail holding strength that plywood has.
Just priced out a sheet of ZIP 7/16 and now looking at $61.05. For 176 sheets on a 3k sq ft house now looking at $10,744.8 . This is before taping it 😵 From what I understand this is driven by hi demand! Zip R Sheathing is $127.36 a sheet x 176 = $22,415.36 🤕
Thanks Matt, been watching your video's for years. Did some online shopping for ZIP sheathing, NONE of our local lumber supplies (Lowes, Home Depot, even ones in Houston) are stocking them! What gives?
This is a great comparison! I'm getting ready to build a 40*60 workshop and have been looking at the advantech and ZIP, after the diresta shop build used zip. This helps me understand the overall cost difference and why.
Great Video very informative. I'm an architect in Michigan and due to the new energy code, I specify ZIP R on a lot of commercial buildings. one thing I have found is that the ZIP R has less shear value than OSB and plywood, so that is something to keep in mind when using it. In one case we needed to add metal strapping to the wood stud walls to make up the difference. I agree though, it's a great product.
I've been a contractor for over 40 years. Zip system sucks in real world. Go with plywood and Blueskin by Henry. Zip is soft and difficult at best to set gun pressure so you don't overset nail, Then you have to tape every seam ,door and window and every exposed edge or it will swell over 1/8 inch. After that blackjack every penetration. Really? How many shear walls with 3 inch nail spacing do you want to do that on. Oh it better not be damp outside or else the tape wont stick. Don't rub against the tape with any other building materials during the rest of the job or it will roll up into a lumpy sticky ball. I build houses, not art projects.
I have used the zip system a few times and think Advantech has a awesome product.. it's much faster installation no need for house wrap... I especially like the subflooring.
Most of what you said can be mitigated or outright prevented. First. Come into the 21st century. Stop lugging air compressors and hoses around the jobsite. Go cordless. Cordless nailers are much more forgiving with nail set depth. I havent overset a single nail since I went cordless 10 years ago. Over half of the nails you fasten the board with dont have to be sealed. The outside edge you have to tape anyway. If youre complaining about sealing every nail hole then youre a hypocrite because I doubt you seal every staple hole with house wrap. So dont treat the tape like you wouldnt treat any other kind of tape. Right. Buddy are you sure your complaints are with the zip sheathing? You sound like you build cookiecutter houses. I on the other hand build homes and manors. Look im not trying to rag on another professional but if you say zip sheathing is more problematic than OSB youre just plain wrong.
Remember somebody years ago showing me a 2x4 in ziplock bag and it has broken down. Airtight on the inside is fine but don't seal the outside too tight or you will get rot. Living in a rainforest area of BC it is important.
From your perspective on insulation, air tightness and overall cost. What's the best choice between a SIPs house or traditional stick frame with Zip-R?
Honestly I think the Zip R is hard to beat. However, if you had a good SIPS manufacturing facilities nearby you trusted it would be worth doing the math. My SIPs experience has been mixed
Honestly I think the Zip R is hard to beat. However, if you had a good SIPS manufacturing facilities nearby you trusted it would be worth doing the math. My SIPs experience has been mixed
Matt Risinger what are your thoughts on doing these layers separate ...the R3 foam board and sheathing? Installing the foam board first, then stagger joints and install sheathing on top. I'm planning to do this for my house in a few months when I build. Seems cheaper than zip R even after I buy the additional weather barrier. I'll be installing it so Labor cost won't be a factor. Anyway , just curious what you think about this method.
Issue with SIPS is when you need to run utilities. Normally plumbing & electrical is done in the wall cavities, but SIPS has none. You can add utility walls for more money & a reduction of interior space. Or you could run utilities in SIPs if you cut out spacing, but that's more labor too.In my opinion SIPS makes senses for roofs, but there are some considerations: You need to use a breathable underlayment and leave an air gap between the exterior side of the SIP roof & your roofing (shingles or metal roof). SIPs are semi-moisture permeable so water can accumulate on the exterior OSB side of the SIP causing rot, unless it has plenty of ventilation. You cannot simply add asphalt shingles on top of SIPs.FWIW: The issue with ZIP-R is that it makes wall construction more difficult. Best option in my opinion is to use the standard ZIP and add exterior rigid foam panels. Every one of those SIP panels is $30+\panel. If you need do a lot of ripping (ie 9ft studding with 8ft ZIP-R panels & filling in gaps) you can see how quickly this can add up.
Matt, I love your channel. I learn something on every one, but something I don't quite understand is with all of your work on making air tight and weather tight homes, why aren't you using ICF's ? Insulated on both sides with solid concrete inside means air tight and insulated and pretty much hurricane proof to me. I have watched pro crews stack the walls. Straighten them and pour in just a few days. That has to cut down on framing costs and should make for a cheaper to insure home as well as a very comfortable home. With the cost of lumber and sheet goods today, plus insulation and all of that labor, aren't ICF's more the way to go? Have you ever done a cost analysis?? Maybe I am crazy or maybe it's due to living in FLORIDA where we are having more and more and stronger hurricanes than ever. ( UPDATE) I just spotted and watched your Sept. 21st video on ICF's. Much answered there, but not really a good cost comparison when you add labor. I would NOT be building below ground here in Florida. In fact, I'd like to see what you consider the best roof structure to go on top of a ICF home. I like steel roofs and like some of the ventilation systems people are doing with them today. I've even heard that done properly, a solar system can be installed on a standing seem roof without penetrations!!
I have a home from the 70's 2x4 framing here up north. Could I add the R-12 ZIP? I need to replace the siding and would like to improve insulation while I am at it.
Yes you could re-skin with Zip-R, then reside. Would easily double the R value of your walls. Would be a good time to replace windows too as you’d need to pull and reset the existing ones.
@@markharro8900 I second the window upgrade option. After spending many years now helping older family and neighbors wash their windows, I can't recommend enough the windows that tilt inward for easy cleaning. Much better than lugging out that rickety extension ladder. ;)
Similar to other's comments, I would be interested in a comparison of Zip R with an OSB (either commodity or Advantech variant) or CDX with 2" of spray foam and a tyvech assembly. Seems like the latter would be cheaper with better performance.
Imagine this: A product with the built in wrap and excellent sealing tape as Zip, but based on plywood rather than beaver puke. How great would that be?
Two Zip issues: 1. Its dense OSB core is almost non-permeable, regardless of Huber calling Zip an "up to perm 15", but that's for the exterior covering. Once you tape Zip with the non-permeable tape they sell, and with a vapor trapping OSB core, you might get moisture failure over time. 2. Having the insulation on the stud attached side of ZipR means you get gravity driven downward shear forces on the sheathing. Will your framing rack over time? Will the sheathing/siding sag unevenly over time? Anyway, I trust plywood, covered with a smart membrane, and then exterior insulatin panels on top of that, held in place by strapping screwed directly into the solid plywood below. Price after labor is about the same, especially if you use SA membrane which uses limited taping, unlike the extensive labor needed to tape Zip panels.
Using the Zip system with the built in insulation does have a drawback. You lose shear strength as the insulation gets thicker. Now this may not be major, but it is worth looking into. I also think diminishing return on investment is a larger issue. Building with 2 x 6 exterior walls might be better. You got to do the math.
I must be missing something here... With the Zip system they indicate it has "built in exterior insulation". But in my mind 'exterior' insulation is that which is installed outboard of the sheathing. Since the rigid foam in the Zip system is inboard of the sheathing, how is that considered exterior insulation? I mean, the insulation material on the zip board ends up in actual contact with the insulation applied between the studs. That being said, I'm a big fan of the Zip R system when it's applied using the Zip 2.0 method. I'm still in the design phase of our new home here in Utah, and my plan is to use the Zip 2.0 system over 2x6 studs (or perhaps 2x8 after watching that "crazy insulation" video Matt put up). A major factor in this decision is the thermal break the Zip R system provides. Then, I'll use Rockwool over this system to provide the "exterior" insulation I'm looking for. My ultimate goal is to build our next and final home buttoned up tighter than a frogs butt hole.
I don’t understand how the zip r doesn’t result in a substantial loss of shear strength that the sheathing is suppose to give the structure, nails work in direct shear once they are working across the foam gap they would go into bending where they would be very weak, at the very least they would have to spec a much tighter nail pattern
it doesn't take that much resistance to stop racking forces and the foam under the zip will still provide some support to the nails. If it was framed right, it shouldn't need that much help and even a small amount of reinforcement will tighten it up. but code is also key. in Wisconsin I have seen 2 inch foam board only with a Tyvek wrap over it. only garages get real sheathing like OSB. even just think like this, say you had a 2x6 wall with 24 inch spacing. say you put a nail every foot on the studs, so 16 nails, how much force does it take to bend 20 steel nails all at once in open air? now think of bending those nails through the added foam resistance. that should be plenty of extra rigidity to a properly framed wall I would think.
You would think, but you would be wrong. Foam gives zero strength to the nail. So code compensates by requiring both extra nailing and adhesive bonding.
the nail doesn't need strength, its shear strength is fine. it is just anchor for whatever sheathing was used, the sheathing provides the racking strength and resistance. Code also varies everywhere, do you have to glue OSB to the studs?
How does the sheathing provide resistance to racking and shear unless it’s attached and integral to the framing??? So obviously the fasteners DO matter, cannot be able to bend, and are part of the shear strength. I have always bonded the sheathing (never use osb shit) to the studs whether code requires it or not. If you have a layer of foam between sheathing and stud, the engineer will spec different fastening.
nails are made of steel. steel is pretty strong in case you were not aware. nails tie the sheathing to the framing. Assuming you used a reasonable number of nails, the weak point is the sheathing itself. the sheathing gives the wall racking strength by resisting the racking load and transferring it to the stud through the nails as a shearing stress. as long and the force isn't great enough to shear the nails off or more likely, shear through the sheathing, you are good. if your wall can rack enough to shear half a dozen steel nails, you shouldn't be allowed to build a dog house. a nail is a nail, its shearing strength is pretty specific. the sheathing is almost always the weakest point unless you didn't use enough nails or are sheathing with metal plates.... gluing plain Styrofoam board would help since you are spreading the load over a larger area of the foam, which is pretty weak by itself. the zip is not plain Styrofoam, it has a rigid board bonded to it. so you would have to bend or shear the 12-20 nails per panel for it to fail, a wall should never have that much force on it.
Super cool video, there are parts of North America that are not doing insulation between the studs, to remove mold problems, the insulation will all be exterior. Like the Zip R
Matt has a video on this, he compared it to wrapping a parka around your house as opposed to stuffing insulation between your ribs, good video as usual
Personally I think I would go with 3/4 foam and zip r for the thermal break but also conventional closed cell spray foam thin coat, for the "glueing effect", with blown in behind that, should be a cost effective thermal combo, curious what that would rate r value wise
@@rbnhd1976 great, does the blown in thin create any issues with mold? I guess I really don't understand how adding insulation or not will change the Moisture inside the sealed walls. It seems like what's really needed is for it to be vented, which sounds bizarre.
#3 is the winner because no matter the cost think of the money you will save cooling and heating . Me If I would selling the I would add it to the price of the house. It's perfect for homes in the NE weather changes from wet , cold , dry can lead to mold and break down of the wood .
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Prices are 350% - 400% higher in my area as of April 2021. Insane!
$66 for 1/2 cdx sheet where I'm at
I’m build a shed and I’m buying $40 for the thinnest 4x8ft sheets smh
Wish I bought materials at this price
Are prices still that high
Yeah this video hasn’t aged well at all lol
We renovated our 25 year old Vermont Farm house. We stripped the West and South sides (direction of the weather, water and wind) down to the studs. I was shocked at the amount of rot under the windows !!! Replacing all the rot (2x6 and plywood), we then added 2.5” Zip System with new Anderson windows, taped the heck out of everything, then added Hardi-plank siding. Our heating needs dropped in HALF and the house is much more comfortable when the -30++ degree Vermont Winds start blowing. We will be renovating our 300 year old post-beam barn into 2 apartments and then a new house. Both will be built with many of the modern building principles Matt talks about in his videos. We are looking for homes that can stand for a hundred years before renovations are required to fix rot…..vs 10-20 years!! Thank you for the great information.
You should do a video like this for siding. vinyl, hardi, cedar, ect
yes please, I could use a video like this about 3 weeks ago :)
Yes, please.
INCREDIBLY useful video Matt. Please do more like this where you present alternative build methods and whole house costs. It really gives a useful education on home building options.
Does anyone make a product like the Zip R-Sheathing product that uses plywood instead of OSB? That would be a killer product!
Keep in mind the 1.5"+ Zip-R has less sheer than just a thicker plywood product because the foam is pulling on itself. If you're building for hurricane or even just more stringent code and you want the thick stuff your engineer may as you to include staggered nogging, 1-by or steel wire let-in bracing to make up for the lost tear strength.
In Canada, Quebec province at least, the building code says that we need R-4 insulation on the outside of the studs to break the thermal bridge. Since that building code is in effect, we saw many different products come to market like the Zip-R. I work in a prefab walls, trusses and floor joists company and we think that some of these products are good but prefer using either OSB or plywood and put the insulation above the sheeting. The reason is simple, shear strenght! When you nail a sheeting to a stud with a 1" of foam in between, the nail becomes very weak. Shear strenght is exponentially lower. Sheeting nailed directly to the studs is way stronger. Then we add something like Atlas R-Board (polyiso with a weather shield included) and strapping. Fhat makes nice and strong wall panels. All our walls are made with 2x6 with at least R-20 fiberglass insulation. Total R value for our "typical" wall panel is a little above R-30. Building code says R-29.5 is required where we are (including the R-4 to break the thermal bridge).
@@onlyscience7120 in fact the foam we use on the outside, when we look at the spec sheet, it says that they are air barrier, but not vapor barrier. So we have vapor barrier inside and air barrier outside.
Perfect. Just did a plywood over studs wall with 1 inch R5 foam board on top, then siding. Sealed up all possibilities of course
What's your approach for windows? Install on sheathing, then foam board, installed over foam board and fasten through board to wood?
@@22bungalow Most of the times, windows are screwed from the inside of the frame. Windows manufacturers build windows that way here. Outside flange on the windows is just a weather protection, no screws there. So, the flange sits over the foam of the wall, and everything is well taped out with a good red tape. On some commercial project, engineers asks us to put a 2x3 around all openings in the walls. I don't know if they screw their commercial grade windows on that 2x3 or not though. Windows are installed on site, so I really don't know how they proceed there.
So the window screws into the framing IN the wall, or screws into the interior face of the framing? I did a school up in Alaska where they framed and insulated normal, did the windows nailed to the sheathing, THEN added like 4 or 5” of eps foam to the outside of the building and then metal siding. They ran metal trim into the windows. Walls ended up about r30 I think. The roof was 12” of eps minimum, which is r50.
I’ve been in Montreal a lot, that cold off the st lawerence is penetrating!
I noticed that on the deck rebuild you explained the screws to use and the lenth of the screws. Could you do a show explaining how to choose the right nails for each job and why? It would really be helpful for us beginners. Thank you.
Lol! Cheapest I can find it local(ish) as of Feb. 2024 is $120 per for the ZIP-R R6. So this stuff is now prohibitively expensive for most, whereas plywood isn't a whole lot more atm.
I'm glad you mentioned the pull out value of screws and nails when comparing the sheathing. When installing exterior cladding systems such as a metal roof this is a critical consideration. Most metal roof manufacturers, for example, are asking that you install into 1/2" minimum grade A plywood. Many of them do not want you using anything less than 3/4" OSB if you are going that route.
so with osb u cant have metal roof?
Love your show Matt. I'm about 2 years away from an owner built house. Your show is proving invaluable.
Matt as an Architect in Ontario Canada I can point out one serious problem with the pre-insulated zip panels. The wood sheathing is an important part the of the structure and needs to be place directly on the studs for maximum strength, so the continuous insulation should be placed outside the structural wall sheathing. Most contractors do not fully understand all the functions that the exterior wall sheathing does. 1 it provides very good lateral load resistance... ie racking resistance. 2 it is critical for transfer of wind up lift back down to the foundation. to do this the sheathing needs to be placed directly on the wood studs so the nail fasteners act in shear. It also means the fast cheap way of sheathing a structure ie with the horizontal joint(s) aligned with joints in the wood structure (as 98% of framers around here do) is completely unacceptable. for the sheathing to act as a diaphragm and resist the wind up lift all the horizontal joints are to occur on a common structural element . starting at the top of the concrete foundation. the sill plate is anchored to the foundation with anchor bolts at 48" oc (max) .. the wall sheathing is fastened to the sill plate at 6" oc and ideally with a bead of PL Premium construction adhesive and the sheathing spans across the floor assembly up the studs at least 12" so you can get 3 fasteners (min) into each stud and 2 into the rim board (per stud location). At second floor level the upper wall sheathing extends down 12" min onto the stud wall below again 3 fasteners per stud and 2 into the rim board. As an alternate you can locate the sheathing horizontal joint on the rim board and fasten at 6" oc (max) plus I also recommend PL adhesive onto the rim board if the joint occurs on the rim board. and finally the double top plate at the u/s of the roof is secured to the wall studs below via the sheathing not just the top plate toe nailed into the studs. The truss hold down clips are to be installed on the exterior side of the wall into the top plate or ideally left until the sheathing is installed so the clips fasten through the sheathing into the top plate(s) (top and bottom plate) and thus places the wind up lift force in the same plane as the sheathing which is the main structural element resisting the up lift. I had a project where the structural engineer made the framing contractor install Simpson Tie hold down straps on every stud to bridge across the horizontal joints in the sheathing because the framer placed sheathing joints at the underside of the 2nd floor joist and at the top of the 2nd floor floor sheathing.. ie inline with joints in the structural frame.... the framer was not a happy camper. but the framer failed to follow the design drawings and the Simpson tie was the easiest solution to fix his mistake. Personally I don't like the Zip sheathing system, for the cost of the zip system you can install a proper vapour permeable Air/Moisture Membrane like BlueSkin VP (or similar product). And if I can get the client (home owner) to agree, use plywood vs OSB for sheathing.. ideally 5/8" T&G plywood installed horizontally with vertical joints staggered (just like you would on a floor assembly) then wrap with BlueSkin VP. example of cost 2019 07 21 in Ontario Canada 7/16 OSB 4x8 = $10.25 ...... 5/8 OSB 4x8 T&G = $17.95 ...... 1/2 plywood 4x8 = $25.44 ..... 5/8" plywood 4x8 = $33.95 (for butt edge or T&G) could only find online price for zip sheathing at US store (example Lowes USA) = $27.05 USD = $35.33 CAD and BlueSkin VP100 is about $1.00 CAD per sqft
I was thinking the same thing. Sheathing's primary function is to add structural rigidity and it's pretty intuitive that that has got to be compromised when the stud surface and the sheathing surface are farther apart. With that in mind, wouldn't 3/4" plywood be the most rigid, and if you were really going cost-no-object, wouldn't 3/4" marine grade plywood be the ultimate, since it uses harder, more water-resistant woods and better adhesives? More and better fasteners would help, too... standard nails < ring shank nails < screws.
Matt did another video where he used a wall assembly of 3/4" plywood/sheet steel/3/4" plywood as sheathing, which was able to stop bullets and wind-driven 2x4s. With a super-strong wall like this, I would imagine bolts would be best to fasten the assembly to the studs.
You said "at the u/s of the roof". "u/s" means?... Thanks
@@talonhall7385 standard/common abbreviations on architectural drawings.... u/s = under side t/s = top side t/o = top of rso = rough stud opening fos = face of stud fob = face of block
Thanks for the response with a bonus, Steve. You said: "u/s = under side, t/s = top side, t/o = top of rso = rough stud opening, fos = face of stud, fob = face of block"
Steve McKerroll dude, I might be an architect. But this shit is wayyyy over engineered. Arch’s and engineers add such an unnecessary amount of cost to modern day homes.
I frickin love this channel. This helps fill in the gaps of reasoning that I lack while sitting in an architecture office all day.
i using this channel to help me design my sisters house. I love architecture and drafting but i have some major gaps in knowledge since i haven't even started school yet.
Shut up
7/16" OSB.
June 2019: $9/sheet
June 2021: $63/sheet
October 2021: $15/sheet
This morning: $40/sheet.
That's Brandons fault
@@linc0292 Price now $50/sheet.
how about fiberboard (Barricade) cost?
@@linc0292 Happy to educate you on how the economy works and how 45's reckless spending, tax cuts, stimulus, deficit spending, pressuring the Fed for QE, pressuring the Fed for endless printing and negative real rates, etc etc all led to inflation...which Brandon has the courage to fix.
@@KidFreshie Courage! Baaaahahahaha
I would like to see a more complete price breakdown. For example, compare: OSB + Weather Wrap + vapor barrier = How much to do a 3000 sq ft house. Then Plywood + Weather Wrap + Vapor Barrier = how much. Then Zip + Seal Tape + nail hole fillers = how much.
In other words - to get from the frame to be ready for finished siding - what would the total costs be and what steps can be skipped or are better/worse with each system. Maybe Zip + tape is cheaper overall and so it's a way better system. Or maybe zip + tape is way more expensive and only marginally better protection compared to more common building methods.
To further expand I would love to know how well the taped wall seams hold up over rigorous testing compared to traditional OSB + kyvek overlapped. Does the adhesive last as long? Is it easier or harder to properly place compared to the fewer tyvek seams you would need? How about the fact that you are technically creating a reverse shingle effect when taping roof panels, so how do those hold up over time compared to OSB with roofing paper.
Nobody will reveal their cost; unless your built a house one day hire your own crew and purchase all material by yourself all this guy never ever will know if those product last , product guarantees always said 10 to 20 so.. nobody has the answer yet
@@jaandel1 That's a good point. Out of curiosity I did a tiny bit of googling and found a few forums on the topic, blogs, etc. Huge variety of responses. One contractor's blog was about how Zip isn't worth it. One forum string seemed like a bunch of contractors saying they won't work without Zip. One post even brought up some organizations having done independent testing on things like vapor permeability and such. Building science is super fascinating to me. If there was an in-depth academic-level assessment of these different methods of building I would watch the shit out of it.
Zip isn't available here in ohio unless you special order it. What would it take to do foam board + osb + steps to make it ready? Would you glue foam board to osb or would you hang them seperatly?
@@idontwantachannelimjustcom7745 matt has plenty of videos on that... its all separate unless u use the zip. Which is why zip is so sweet. Saves on labor bug time
Saw a video by This Old House. Tom Silvia was helping a homeowner find a system to protect his windows during a hurricane. 1/2" OSB was punched through like it wasn't even there when fired upon by a 2x4 moving at 34 mph to simulate hurricane wind driven debris. The only system to really stand up and absorb the impact without being damaged in some fashion was genuine plywood.
Zip wall is the way to go; You save a buck or two using Tyvek or similar house wrap but; I like the idea of being able to finish exterior immediately..
If you choose higher r value zip, this would have to be taken into consideration before pouring the foundation especially if you have brick as this will really bring it out over the ledger.. which increases the cost of concrete needed
Windows/doors too.
Yep 👍
I have used osb for exposed interior sheathing in a shop, and noticed one downside is the glue off gases for decades....and is even worse when the space is heated. Plywood has glue as well, but generally hidden under a final ply....osb has far more glue which is exposed unless painted.
I went to see an Architect who used OSB exposed to finish his firms walls. Oh the stink I could barely breathe I took a pass on the poor judgement.
Very interesting! I'd be curious to know what the wall assembly costs are for each type to really compare everything involved (alternate insulation, vapor barrier, etc.) and see which system is most cost and time effective as whole.
Great comparison and really appreciate your videos. According to my calculations here on Long Island (NY) the cost of 1/2 OSB is 55% higher, 1/2 Ply is 26% more, and 7/16 Zip is 48% higher. I pulled the prices from the HD website and not shopped at local lumber yards.
I was going to say I'm in CNY & all I can say we have to get rid of the Commie in Albany
@@rocdajacable
Second that, but I'm afraid his "picnic cooler" buildings are here to stay.
Excellent information! OSB sheer strength is critical for earthquake prone areas. We usually utilize LP.
Hearing these prices in September 2020 makes my heart hurt
Yes that baseline osb is the price of the expensive one now. Just crazy
Lockdown results.
I was thinking the same thing what a bummer
I came to the comments to say the same thing.
Back in the 80s when hurricane Andrew came through and devastated central Fla, over night ALL wood prices Doubled. They said, when the boom is over the prices will come back down. 😲😲. They NEVER come back down, NEVER! They only problem to me is that the producers of The lumber industry are making double, triple and quadruple what We the consumers are having to pay!
@Matt, Can you do a video like this Comparing Zip-R, Atlas Energy Shield, Rockwool and maybe other exterior insulation options
High performance Sheathing. This is just one of the innovations that has changed the landscape. Telehandlers, boom-lifts, and track loaders have revolutionized home-building. I don't think ZIP would be economic if there weren't man-lifts to apply the tape, can you imagine the drudgery? Post-Frame construction in particular has evolved from pole shed to luxury homes. While I don't think steel-sided homes are going to be popular anytime soon, maybe they should be? Appearance aside, I have to think a construction method that lets two guys fabricate and erect a 40x60 finished shell in a couple of weeks has got to gain some traction sooner or later. All the trades from slab to finish carpentry are out of the weather along with their materials. I'd really like to know your thoughts about Post-Frame as an alternative for home-building. This guy in "Mad County Build" is making me think ... the idea of home that will need zero exterior maintenance for the 50 years is pretty intriguing. I can give some architectural detail for that.
Look into R&R Buildings. I love the aspect of post frame as partial diy home build
For the relatively small increase in price for an average size home, it seems a no brainer to me to just step up to plywood and seal it really well. I'm planning to build my dream home when I retire in a few years, which will only be my 2nd home and my 1st new home, so I don't plan to cut corners. I'll probably go with 5/8 plywood or maybe even 5/8 Zip to create a really strong airtight shell. If an heirloom quality home is what you want, spending an extra few thousand dollars to ensure a strong and tight envelop is a no brainer.
Concrete,poured.
This was a great comparison video. I'm looking to build a home in a couple years. Seeing the price breakdown really put things into perspective. I thought Zip was hugely expensive but it's that much more expensive than plywood. Totally worth the money.
Love how he refers to things as “flavors.” Super informative video! Thanks answered so many questions.
I build in Maritime zone 5 in upper Ohio. I’ve used all the above but two years ago I shifted to Huber Zip system with the 3/4 Advantech on the floors. We use the Advantech glue and then about 50 2.75” screws per sheet. Even better, when clients will upgrade we use the Zip with the bonded foam to increase our wall efficiency. We get a good thermal brake of about 12-13R plus 2 more inches of closed cell at an R of 15. After this we dense pack fiberglass into the remaining 3.5”. We ends up with an average R value of about 35. We then blow an R60 into attics.
It’s a noticeable difference in the energy costs, reduced noise and it makes for a rock solid home that will be very low maintenance costs.
Matt, Just moved into a house in upper Michigan that was built 2 years ago and discovered that it had zip sheeting (green-7/16") installed. Thanks to you, I have learned much about that siding. I have been enjoying your videos with the many rather outstanding suggestions and observations. I was a licensed builder for 25 years in Michigan and am now non-licensed as I build strictly on personally owned property. We all have our talents and gifts and I do believe that you have yours nailed down like a pole barn spike. Keep it up, if possible. Just watched a recent video where you shared some of the unsavory comments from the trolls. I am sorry for their replusiveness. Not one of those people would dare say that to your face, but I would say any of the above to you in person. I respect your experience and your knowledge. You make me think about my experiences, good and bad. Thank you.
I'll give a Canadian perspective on this. Southern Ontario here.
7/16" ZIP is over $45/sheet (special order). At 176 sheets, that's almost $8000. 7/16" OSB is under $16/sheet, totaling $2800. Two very different propositions.
I would love to try ZIP, but that's a high cost of entry.
And don't forget the special tape.
yes, but you are paying for insulation as well if you get ZIP. Its a huge benefit
Thanks for the video Matt. But on a rhetorical/philosophical note:
I don't understand why we use building/sheathing materials that desintegrate in the presence of any moisture. Houses are meant to withstand the outdoors. We know it rains. Why use OSB on the exterior of a house at all?
Cost. Install time. Weight. But mostly cost.
@@blackmanops3749 Right. But for something so permanent and hard to replace, spending the extra $1000 for plywood seems worth it to me. Then again, costs rack up quickly in construction.
@@timbirishi9284 You don't get to choose what is used unless you do a custom build. Most of them time it'll be cheap OSB.
we got drywood termites down here in Houston Texas, best option would be PT plywood 1/2" from the ground up; the rest gona regular plywood or osb. Its good against those pest, rot, and durable asf.
Too bad I'm in Fort Worth I'd come work for you for free for a year just to learn. Thanks for another great vid
Albeit in 2021 price change, this video is STILL VERY INFORMATIVE! Thank You Mr. Risinger for taking time to make these informative videos! Sooooo appreciate it!
Just saw This Old House wrap a home entirely in Zip-R-16. I'm glad to see they are working with the latest in building sciences.
I doubt it has anything to do with building science and more to deal with sponsorship and getting people to think others are using it (they pay people to use it BTW).
Haha! This old house is much more marketing than education.
great content Matt! perhaps you could start provide metrics when comparing these products one another in terms of trade off like ROIs or net gains or time value of $ saved from a more expensive product compared to a lower priced substitute i think that would help a lot of people make a more informed decision when choosing.
Use stone,brick or concrete. Forget wood. It burns down, gets blown away in a hurricane and bullets go through. Inferior.
i love these type of videos comparing different materials
Who's ever had the good old O.S.B. splinter under neath a finger nail ?not once but several times .
My bro got one that made it's way down past his second knuckle. Like 2.5 inches. It was brutal.
Don’t you put that evil on me Ricky Bobby
@@hhiippiittyy wtf
Yes sir! gotta love it
Its a nightmare...annoying as hell
4 years later, these prices have sure changed for the worse lol. Nice vid, thanks for the info!
You got that right! A 4X8 sheet of Advantech cost $55 now. It's absolutely insane how much the price of lumber has went up in the last 3 years.
Yet oddly enough the Zip sheets haven't changed near as much. Wish I'd known about them before I did my last projects!
@@chromasux2 No you don't. Unless you wanna go full hog on a needlessly overcomplicated electric component too. It requires an air pump/vapor exchange to run all the time. When you seal up a house like Zip does you're begging for mold. Make a cup of coffee, boil water, exhale? That's vapor that any 'normal' house could breath out, even during a power outage. Not using Zip is a huge bullet dodged on my part that not nearly enough people are mentioning in the same breath when they promote this system, cough cough Matt Risinger.... Zip sheathing, in my non-professional opinion, is 95% marketing gimmick, 5% good idea (as in 5% of the time it's the right tool for the right job.) Use ply/osb + wrap + whatever insulation you want, just let yer friggin' houses breath yall.
Absolutely amazing demonstrations. I For one learned quite a bit from this video. Thank you very much for taking the time.
Hey Matt, enjoyed watching and learning from your channel...
I was wondering about the costs of insulating basement slabs and using zip sheathing vs utilty costs... How quickly are those savings noticed.... If my electric bill is $100 month, on one house without these nice insulation and another identically built one with out the basement insulation and zip sheathing.... What would the electrical bill difference be....
Don't stop. Keep it coming. Love your show.
Tremendous video! Really great stuff. I love the pricing breakdown and comparisons. Relative to the total cost of the build, it seems very convincingly worthwhile to go with the top of the line. And I cannot see a reason why not to go with the ZIP system and save the cost, labor, and time of installing a separate barrier (along with the long term energy savings of the 2.0 installation method you have shown us). While I am not personally a big fan of poly-iso; if I were, it seems a no-brainer to go with the full size ZIP-R 12. Getting that continuous thermal break, and a moisture barrier, and the tremendous labor savings are a fantastic option. I think this product is going to be hugely successful with more discerning customers.
I admit, I have watched MANY of your videos, and I find the subject of building science fascinating. I have always had an interest in it, but I have learned so much more from you. Many thanks for all the education. Keep on keepin' on!
Scorpio I totally agree with your assessment of how valuable it is. I think many owners who want to build start out planning with the best materials only to get sticker shock. Once you ask the question of how to reduce cost by 50% all high end materials get wiped off the table.
One secret to success here is to plan a house “size” you can afford with top products. I can’t afford a 3k sqf house, but I can do a 1200sqf house with “some” top products.
Difficult choices
Zip+ looks like a great product. Matt's right, any time a way to save labour and make a premium product at the same time is a win in my books.
Labour costs can be prohibitive. I would spend $12000 on a sheathing system up here in Canada if it means some saved labour costs along with a luxury rated building envelope.
A feasibility plan I recently started for "contour crafting" (3D printed building), lt almost fully revolves around cutting labour costs while combining modular design with the longevity of concrete. Up to 90% decrease in build time and up to 40% reducton in material used. Material being a special concrete mix that's 3x the cost of traditional concrete design. Due to reductions in build time through automation, labour costs inevitably are cut by close to the same margins. Less workers in total and less time spent on site.
I LOVE THE COST DETAILS! Great video! Thank you!
I've just purchased zip panels to sheathing 22x22 garage. I shopped around, got 6 quotes and the cheapest price for the panels I could get in NorthEast part of Connecticut is $22.72 for 7/16'' and $33.59 for 5/8''.
Regarding the Zip R, the lateral strength of the sheathing may be jeopardized by sandwiching the rigid insulation in between the sheathing and the framing. The fasteners will have the space that the insulation gives it to move laterally due to the insulation not being as ductile as wood. If you want insulation on your house other than stud bay batt, the best option is to add it on the outside of the sheathing, such as what Matt Risinger is doing on his own Monopoly house.
thank you. was researching the best option and i think ill stick to standard osb and insulation after the housewrap
A Bailey wind brace system in combo with zip would be the best option imo. But that's just my intuition I haven't broken down the costs. I know it's way faster to install wind braces than a whole other layer of sheathing
@@rezzbuilds8343 Simpson strong Tie hurricane straps on the base of the wall could help against wind racking
Hello Matt thank you for the informative RUclips video on OSB comparisons to the Advantix.
I do have to say I’m curious why the SIPs have not taken more of market the way I feel they deserve.
I’m a personal user of SIPs for a home built in NY. I actually won an award from NYS after an impressive blower door test (this was a 4000 sq ft structure). I then went on to do two more structures, I was that please for the system and was a most comfortable home. I own a SIP as manufacturer in the Northeast and we use an MGO sheathing which is waterproof, fireproof, mold/insect proof. One last excellent feature is it when you put your wall up the MGO on the interior serves as your drywall, saving you considerable labor and money. I Would love to hear your perspective on this
thank you for your time. Camille - BuildGreen SIPs
Except that's for floors
There's a custom home build I drive past on my way to work, once they put the ZIP boards up they stopped working on the exterior and have been working on the interior for the last 6 months. Makes me wonder how well it holds up to UV exposure.
I got 3 pallets of zip that where left over At a huge apartment complex I helped build. They were just going to throw them away. So I asked and they gave them to me. Loaded up on my flat bed and used it when replacing my siding. With siding I had from a job I did a year ago
Smart move.
Any metrics on cost savings over time if you step up to the Zip R system? How long before that extra expense is justified in lower heating/cooling costs? Great info on this video, thanks.
It would also be a good comparison to see the cost difference with the equivalent R value foam board sheets on top of the base Zip system OSB. How much more expensive is it to save the labor of doing it in 2 steps.
@@danbert8 I just did this calculation about 2 months ago. 7/16" Zip sheathing + 2" XPS R-10 was $12 less expensive VS. 2.5" Zip-R12, $2 less expensive VS. 2" Zip-R9.
In my case I've spec'd the Zip-R9 for its 2" thickness.
The details having the sheathing on the exterior of the building seem so much easier than furring out everything over ext. foam board. So the Zip R wins hands down.
Bonus comparison: 7/16" Zip sheathing with 1.5" Type-II EPS bonded to it is $10 more expensive a sheet than Zip-R9
Over years if you're in an area that doesn't require a basement. Under 5 years if you are.
Zip system does not save money on your heating or cooling bills .there is no savings that will get recooped by using the zip system. Take the money you will save using osb and upgrade your windows and insulation and you will be saving money everyday on heating and cooling bills .
@@Unconnect3d that is bad information .your numbers may be right but not sure the point of the insulation between sheathing and studs .sheathing needs to be tight to studs because it is a structural bond that keeps everything from racking. I would not want an inch of foam in between sheathing and studs .upgrade insulation in stud bays and upgrade windows with the money you are wasting on zip system and you will be much happier and safer
Could you add the Zip R on top of your existing OSB sheeting, on a remodel instead of insulating the outside of the house with Rockwool? Could there be any benifits for doing so? Great video. Keep up the good work!
These long form videos are really great Matt.
House built in 1898. We has blown insulation. Once had it Vinyl siding done with Foam insulation board, I could not believe the difference in heat lost. Cut our heating bill Tremendously. I would definitely go with zip system if building a new home.
I should’ve bought 2 semi trucks full during this video. Lol
😂😂
Thanks for being honest about cdx vs. Osb. we are sold on how great Osb is. if it gets wet, it falls apart and left to its demise will mold, and the mold will wick thew out the house
I've has to re Sheth entire wall because of a leak around a window
One small problem with the Zip-R system though. Because the actual OSB panel isn't mounted flush to the framing, it doesn't provide the same racking resistance you'd get with OSB, Plywood, or standard Zip...
This is what I’m thinking, especially as you go higher in R value (thicker foam between OSB and framing). The fasteners are effectively in bending rather than shear. I’d be interested in what the shear strengths (resistance to racking) of sample wall segments would look like with the different R-value Zip sheathing. Matt, sounds like an awesome experiment video for The BUILD Show!
Agreed. I can see some areas with higher regulations, like California (for earthquake) or multi-story not meeting engineering reqs.
People have been accounting for this with extra fasteners.
Extra fasteners & heavier fasteners are used to get back the strength. However the issue is driving them in to your wall studs since if your not dead-on you likely to miss the stud nor reduces contact with the stud, at least with the higher R-value Zip panels.
Considering many homes now are just being built with OSB on the corners and maybe some in the middle and the rest is just foam board, I would guess that unless you are in an earthquake or hurricane zone, the actual strength needed from the OSB is far less than you need.
I started specifying zip bd/r-sheathing about 1.5 yrs ago in the houses i design.... really great comparison... Nothing like some continuous insulation to make the international energy code council happy...
Zip-R looks amazing! Yeah concerns mentioned about loss of racking strength. Probably gotta let in some diagonal bracing like they did on old houses before plywood or add a sheet of ply on the studs first. Definitely an added cost not seen
Designing and building my first house and have found your videos extremely valuable. Keep up the good work and thank you!
Would love to see how some of those products are manufactured, especially the zip "R" system sheeting..... Would be fascinating!
I'm pretty sure he recently had a video on that. Maybe it was something else.
You just got really excited over a boring piece of osb.
Well talking about nail holding power, im surprised you didnt mention that sooner.
Especially as it applies to the standard OSB sheathing.
Drive a nail in the OSB partially.
Enough to fully penetrate the board, and then remove the nail.
You will be able to push another nail in the same hole with just your thumb.
Now try that with plywood of the same thickness and see the difference.
As for the insulation factor, assuming that all of the sheathing is installed properly and covered with some type of a good wrap before siding is installed and the house properly insulated.
What percentage of the heat loss is thru the walls as opposed to thru the ceilings?
Assuming of coarse that good energy efficient windows are used.
Fact is that the actuall cost savings for energy is minimal when using the higher priced sheathing.
The difference in material cost, plus additional labor cost for applying tape to all the seams, would take a very long time to recover with energy savings.
I love all the great information you bring us about the construction world I've learned a lot, thank you
i guess im randomly asking but does any of you know of a trick to log back into an instagram account??
I somehow forgot my account password. I would appreciate any help you can offer me
@Arjun Nickolas Instablaster :)
@Cayson Reign thanks for your reply. I got to the site on google and Im trying it out now.
Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Cayson Reign it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thank you so much you saved my account !
@Arjun Nickolas happy to help xD
We don't sheathe houses in NZ like you see in North America, was so interesting to see how different you do it up there when I was there recently, and on your videos.
Wish the wood prices were still that low..
Where i live builders sheet the side walls with drywall. And then biuld the houses 5 feet apart. They use drywall or dense glass sheeting to prevent the whole block from burning down when one house catches fire
I used the zip R3 as the subfloor in the basement.
Good point about 3/4 inch for fastening, I always wondered why people would bother using 3/4 inch for a single story home for example
Interesting breakdown. The Zip system is an interesting option with the continuous insulation built in. Unfortunately these panels cannot be used for shear strength anymore, and you would need to use additional plwd sheathing, which you could place on the inside. Personally I am not a fan of foams, because they are environmentally not as friendly as other options, let’s say mineral wool.
Zip is osb covered in insulation
@@kickandblock yes, but because you are using a long nail with the foam sandwiched between the osb and framing, when shear force is applied the nails will just bend, tearing the foam around them. Much less shear strength vs osb directly to the frame where the nail has to shear off.
Ideally you would sandwich the foam between two pieces of osb
Has anyone thought of installing it upside-down so the OSB is in contact with studs?
Melissa Kuralt Hi Melissa, install in reverse would not work because the weather resistive barrier needs to be on the exterior and nailing through the foam does not work.
Matt, great video as always. Would have like to seen a few more things in this video, namely a complete breakdown like you did for each but a complete list from cheapest to most expensive.
The other things I would have liked to see probably call for another video: price of zip-r vs zip plus a poly-iso or rockwool (I love that stuff) vs traditional plywood plus a smart vapor barrier plus external insulation.
As you said as far as a one step simple system, it seems like zip-r is hard to beat. Depends on the owners needs/wants as well as budget.
Awesome video. I've been trying to find the price for the Zip R. Great breakdown.
Cool product presentation. Loved the pre-insulated ZipR board. However, with as schlocky as some builders are (at least the crappy ones I’ve experienced personally), I can see some of those guys using nails that are just too short and on the R-12 ZipR board, end up not penetrating into the framing far enough. The end result being that the weight of your HardeeBoard siding ends up pulling off all your poorly-installed ZipR sheathing.
Not even sure why I'm watching this, I've already decided that the exterior and floors in my house will be ICF. Still, great video with good information!
WeAreTwoDoorsDown you make a better building with ICF, that gives you air and water barriers on one install. Sound resistance of ST54 or the same as a movie theater. Thermal comfort of moderation of heat flow thru mass. All I have built for 10 years.
stick framing it outdated and outpaced by better tech. i won't build a house unless its floor to ceiling icf.
Recent cost comparisons by myself and two builders in Colorado, by the time you do insulation air,and water barrier you exceed cost of Icf with stick frame.
I like the theory of ICF, but always have this nagging feeling about fastening to plastic tabs inside of styrofoam. Not knocking ICF, just maybe I'm too old-school for it. I would have no problem with a stick-skeleton inside an ICF exterior, but that drives the price through the roof (meaning that you treat the ICF as a masonry wall with a 1 inch gap between the interior of the ICF and the 16-on-center interior framing. Extra Rockwool insulation for giggles.).
Warning icf is perfect only in a perfect world. Pannels never install how they were expected. I love that for below grade but I'm also a big fan of real sticks above the dirt. Every application calls for a different material. One cool thing about wood is it has shearing abilities. The compressive strength of icf makes it ideal for below grade but the wiggle you have before you snap makes wood the product I would use above grade. In our real 4 season climate where I live I'd go for a full basement in icf and use lumber for the first and second floor.
Matt... What's your take on wind and sheer resistance with the Zip-R products? Any worries about 'wiggle' when the wind blows with the outside of the sheathing (and nail head) being so far from the supporting framing (where the nail will be gripping in the stud)? Esp the higher R values... Your thoughts?
Matt,
I absolutely love your channel. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and expertise with everyone. You are making a big impact to building practices.
What is your opinion of Barricade's Thermo-Brace Sheathing? I'm considering using it since it clams to have all of the benefits of Zip, and it costs around $8.00 for a 4x8 panel.
I haven’t seen zip in action, but look at modular homes with OSB wall sheathing with vinyl siding and notice how it bubbles out especially on a sunny section. You can try your best to fasten into studs,but it just isn’t a perfect world. Zip and OSB do lay nice and flat. Now give it some nail holding strength that plywood has.
Just priced out a sheet of ZIP 7/16 and now looking at $61.05. For 176 sheets on a 3k sq ft house now looking at $10,744.8 . This is before taping it 😵 From what I understand this is driven by hi demand! Zip R Sheathing is $127.36 a sheet x 176 = $22,415.36 🤕
Holy smokes that's expensive
Thanks Matt, been watching your video's for years. Did some online shopping for ZIP sheathing, NONE of our local lumber supplies (Lowes, Home Depot, even ones in Houston) are stocking them! What gives?
This is a great comparison!
I'm getting ready to build a 40*60 workshop and have been looking at the advantech and ZIP, after the diresta shop build used zip. This helps me understand the overall cost difference and why.
Great Video very informative. I'm an architect in Michigan and due to the new energy code, I specify ZIP R on a lot of commercial buildings. one thing I have found is that the ZIP R has less shear value than OSB and plywood, so that is something to keep in mind when using it. In one case we needed to add metal strapping to the wood stud walls to make up the difference. I agree though, it's a great product.
I've been a contractor for over 40 years. Zip system sucks in real world. Go with plywood and Blueskin by Henry. Zip is soft and difficult at best to set gun pressure so you don't overset nail, Then you have to tape every seam ,door and window and every exposed edge or it will swell over 1/8 inch. After that blackjack every penetration. Really? How many shear walls with 3 inch nail spacing do you want to do that on. Oh it better not be damp outside or else the tape wont stick. Don't rub against the tape with any other building materials during the rest of the job or it will roll up into a lumpy sticky ball. I build houses, not art projects.
Thanks ChipEeter for the real world perspective. Quality control is the key.
Do you have an opinion on Certainteed OSB siding?
After comparing all the options I feel Advantech Sheathing along with 3M 3015vp self adhered WRB will be a great option even though it is pricey
I have used the zip system a few times and think Advantech has a awesome product.. it's much faster installation no need for house wrap... I especially like the subflooring.
Most of what you said can be mitigated or outright prevented.
First. Come into the 21st century. Stop lugging air compressors and hoses around the jobsite. Go cordless. Cordless nailers are much more forgiving with nail set depth. I havent overset a single nail since I went cordless 10 years ago.
Over half of the nails you fasten the board with dont have to be sealed. The outside edge you have to tape anyway.
If youre complaining about sealing every nail hole then youre a hypocrite because I doubt you seal every staple hole with house wrap.
So dont treat the tape like you wouldnt treat any other kind of tape. Right. Buddy are you sure your complaints are with the zip sheathing?
You sound like you build cookiecutter houses. I on the other hand build homes and manors.
Look im not trying to rag on another professional but if you say zip sheathing is more problematic than OSB youre just plain wrong.
Remember somebody years ago showing me a 2x4 in ziplock bag and it has broken down. Airtight on the inside is fine but don't seal the outside too tight or you will get rot. Living in a rainforest area of BC it is important.
From your perspective on insulation, air tightness and overall cost. What's the best choice between a SIPs house or traditional stick frame with Zip-R?
Honestly I think the Zip R is hard to beat. However, if you had a good SIPS manufacturing facilities nearby you trusted it would be worth doing the math. My SIPs experience has been mixed
Honestly I think the Zip R is hard to beat. However, if you had a good SIPS manufacturing facilities nearby you trusted it would be worth doing the math. My SIPs experience has been mixed
Matt Risinger what are your thoughts on doing these layers separate ...the R3 foam board and sheathing? Installing the foam board first, then stagger joints and install sheathing on top. I'm planning to do this for my house in a few months when I build. Seems cheaper than zip R even after I buy the additional weather barrier. I'll be installing it so Labor cost won't be a factor. Anyway , just curious what you think about this method.
Issue with SIPS is when you need to run utilities. Normally plumbing & electrical is done in the wall cavities, but SIPS has none. You can add utility walls for more money & a reduction of interior space. Or you could run utilities in SIPs if you cut out spacing, but that's more labor too.In my opinion SIPS makes senses for roofs, but there are some considerations: You need to use a breathable underlayment and leave an air gap between the exterior side of the SIP roof & your roofing (shingles or metal roof). SIPs are semi-moisture permeable so water can accumulate on the exterior OSB side of the SIP causing rot, unless it has plenty of ventilation. You cannot simply add asphalt shingles on top of SIPs.FWIW: The issue with ZIP-R is that it makes wall construction more difficult. Best option in my opinion is to use the standard ZIP and add exterior rigid foam panels. Every one of those SIP panels is $30+\panel. If you need do a lot of ripping (ie 9ft studding with 8ft ZIP-R panels & filling in gaps) you can see how quickly this can add up.
Matt, I love your channel. I learn something on every one, but something I don't quite understand is with all of your work on making air tight and weather tight homes, why aren't you using ICF's ? Insulated on both sides with solid concrete inside means air tight and insulated and pretty much hurricane proof to me. I have watched pro crews stack the walls. Straighten them and pour in just a few days. That has to cut down on framing costs and should make for a cheaper to insure home as well as a very comfortable home. With the cost of lumber and sheet goods today, plus insulation and all of that labor, aren't ICF's more the way to go? Have you ever done a cost analysis?? Maybe I am crazy or maybe it's due to living in FLORIDA where we are having more and more and stronger hurricanes than ever.
( UPDATE) I just spotted and watched your Sept. 21st video on ICF's. Much answered there, but not really a good cost comparison when you add labor. I would NOT be building below ground here in Florida. In fact, I'd like to see what you consider the best roof structure to go on top of a ICF home. I like steel roofs and like some of the ventilation systems people are doing with them today. I've even heard that done properly, a solar system can be installed on a standing seem roof without penetrations!!
how wood prices have changed since this video
It’s almost like this is a video from a specific period of time.
AWESOME VIDEO MATT. Love the product comparisons/price breakdowns! Keep it up.
Awesome comparison
I have a home from the 70's 2x4 framing here up north. Could I add the R-12 ZIP? I need to replace the siding and would like to improve insulation while I am at it.
Yes you could re-skin with Zip-R, then reside. Would easily double the R value of your walls. Would be a good time to replace windows too as you’d need to pull and reset the existing ones.
You are the best Matt! I watch all your videos. Keep up the great work!
@@markharro8900 I second the window upgrade option. After spending many years now helping older family and neighbors wash their windows, I can't recommend enough the windows that tilt inward for easy cleaning. Much better than lugging out that rickety extension ladder. ;)
Similar to other's comments, I would be interested in a comparison of Zip R with an OSB (either commodity or Advantech variant) or CDX with 2" of spray foam and a tyvech assembly. Seems like the latter would be cheaper with better performance.
Imagine this: A product with the built in wrap and excellent sealing tape as Zip, but based on plywood rather than beaver puke. How great would that be?
Plywood zip? Cool, as long as they have it in just two thicknesses for simplicity. True 1/2 and true 3/4 inch.
Two Zip issues: 1. Its dense OSB core is almost non-permeable, regardless of Huber calling Zip an "up to perm 15", but that's for the exterior covering. Once you tape Zip with the non-permeable tape they sell, and with a vapor trapping OSB core, you might get moisture failure over time. 2. Having the insulation on the stud attached side of ZipR means you get gravity driven downward shear forces on the sheathing. Will your framing rack over time? Will the sheathing/siding sag unevenly over time? Anyway, I trust plywood, covered with a smart membrane, and then exterior insulatin panels on top of that, held in place by strapping screwed directly into the solid plywood below. Price after labor is about the same, especially if you use SA membrane which uses limited taping, unlike the extensive labor needed to tape Zip panels.
Using the Zip system with the built in insulation does have a drawback. You lose shear strength as the insulation gets thicker. Now this may not be major, but it is worth looking into. I also think diminishing return on investment is a larger issue. Building with 2 x 6 exterior walls might be better. You got to do the math.
I hadn't thought of that!
Does anyone still frame walls with 2x4's?
@@oscarb9139 what do you frame with Oscar?
@@LloydTaylor 2x6. Sheathed with 7/16" OSB.
That is for exterior walls. Interior is 2x4.
@@oscarb9139 thanks for sharing!
I must be missing something here... With the Zip system they indicate it has "built in exterior insulation". But in my mind 'exterior' insulation is that which is installed outboard of the sheathing. Since the rigid foam in the Zip system is inboard of the sheathing, how is that considered exterior insulation? I mean, the insulation material on the zip board ends up in actual contact with the insulation applied between the studs.
That being said, I'm a big fan of the Zip R system when it's applied using the Zip 2.0 method. I'm still in the design phase of our new home here in Utah, and my plan is to use the Zip 2.0 system over 2x6 studs (or perhaps 2x8 after watching that "crazy insulation" video Matt put up). A major factor in this decision is the thermal break the Zip R system provides. Then, I'll use Rockwool over this system to provide the "exterior" insulation I'm looking for. My ultimate goal is to build our next and final home buttoned up tighter than a frogs butt hole.
I might have missed it will the foam and wood go foam in or out ? will it loose its sheer ?
Amazing presentation. Please do more like this one.
I don’t understand how the zip r doesn’t result in a substantial loss of shear strength that the sheathing is suppose to give the structure, nails work in direct shear once they are working across the foam gap they would go into bending where they would be very weak, at the very least they would have to spec a much tighter nail pattern
it doesn't take that much resistance to stop racking forces and the foam under the zip will still provide some support to the nails. If it was framed right, it shouldn't need that much help and even a small amount of reinforcement will tighten it up. but code is also key. in Wisconsin I have seen 2 inch foam board only with a Tyvek wrap over it. only garages get real sheathing like OSB. even just think like this, say you had a 2x6 wall with 24 inch spacing. say you put a nail every foot on the studs, so 16 nails, how much force does it take to bend 20 steel nails all at once in open air? now think of bending those nails through the added foam resistance. that should be plenty of extra rigidity to a properly framed wall I would think.
You would think, but you would be wrong. Foam gives zero strength to the nail. So code compensates by requiring both extra nailing and adhesive bonding.
the nail doesn't need strength, its shear strength is fine. it is just anchor for whatever sheathing was used, the sheathing provides the racking strength and resistance. Code also varies everywhere, do you have to glue OSB to the studs?
How does the sheathing provide resistance to racking and shear unless it’s attached and integral to the framing??? So obviously the fasteners DO matter, cannot be able to bend, and are part of the shear strength.
I have always bonded the sheathing (never use osb shit) to the studs whether code requires it or not. If you have a layer of foam between sheathing and stud, the engineer will spec different fastening.
nails are made of steel. steel is pretty strong in case you were not aware. nails tie the sheathing to the framing. Assuming you used a reasonable number of nails, the weak point is the sheathing itself. the sheathing gives the wall racking strength by resisting the racking load and transferring it to the stud through the nails as a shearing stress. as long and the force isn't great enough to shear the nails off or more likely, shear through the sheathing, you are good. if your wall can rack enough to shear half a dozen steel nails, you shouldn't be allowed to build a dog house. a nail is a nail, its shearing strength is pretty specific. the sheathing is almost always the weakest point unless you didn't use enough nails or are sheathing with metal plates.... gluing plain Styrofoam board would help since you are spreading the load over a larger area of the foam, which is pretty weak by itself. the zip is not plain Styrofoam, it has a rigid board bonded to it. so you would have to bend or shear the 12-20 nails per panel for it to fail, a wall should never have that much force on it.
Super cool video, there are parts of North America that are not doing insulation between the studs, to remove mold problems, the insulation will all be exterior. Like the Zip R
Matt has a video on this, he compared it to wrapping a parka around your house as opposed to stuffing insulation between your ribs, good video as usual
Personally I think I would go with 3/4 foam and zip r for the thermal break but also conventional closed cell spray foam thin coat, for the "glueing effect", with blown in behind that, should be a cost effective thermal combo, curious what that would rate r value wise
@@rbnhd1976 great, does the blown in thin create any issues with mold? I guess I really don't understand how adding insulation or not will change the Moisture inside the sealed walls. It seems like what's really needed is for it to be vented, which sounds bizarre.
3/4" plywood is slightly cheaper than 1/2" Advantec OSB... 1/2" plywood is a third cheaper... Why would anyone use Advantec?
Matt, would love to see a video like this comparing pros and cons or types or siding with a rough cost break down.
Am I the only one who says “oooonnn the build show” with Matt at the end of every episode 😂
#3 is the winner because no matter the cost think of the money you will save cooling and heating . Me If I would selling the I would add it to the price of the house. It's perfect for homes in the NE weather changes from wet , cold , dry can lead to mold and break down of the wood .