Opera used to sound very different! Here’s how...
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- Welcome to my new channel! This introductory video is, I hope, a very good place to start. There is so much more to discuss about singing, and I will try to cover as much as possible, so I hope you stay tuned to find out.
Please comment below with questions, requests, or feedback. I would love to talk to you, and I hope to encourage a safe space for healthy debate. Please be polite and reasonable here.
I am on twitter and instagram as @operaphantoms. Come and find me there, too!
I’m getting superior equipment, so the next uploads should be better quality. We don’t want any ghosts in the machine...
And last but not least, Happy Hallowe’en! May all your spectral encounters be harmonious.
My new favorite quote: "Let none of this effort be visible in your performance - there must be no sign of concentration, exertion, or tension. All must be free and natural, for the true art is that which conceals the labor that produced it." Thank you so much for your brilliant presentation.
BassetHoundTrio It’s perfect, isn’t it? It should be on the wall in every studio!
BassetHoundTrio ... thank you for the quote. And pardon my ignorance, but who was it that originally said that?
@@artdanks4846 In the video, the citation credits nineteenth century dancer. Enrico Cecchetti.
@@BassetHoundTrio Thank you!
That was also the ideal in Eur. painting till around the turn of the 19th-20th c. when modern art began to make its appearance. Through most of the 20th c
I think the thing I love most about older opera is that I can actually UNDERSTAND what they are sining. Without the effort, the vibrato, the extras, I can hear the words.
OMG! That moment when Fernando de Lucia sings that epic line so softly! Love it!
How wonderful! The opera singers of the past did not scream - it is so refreshing to not hear so much vibrato! I think we should go back to interpreting these works this way! What a breath of fresh air :)
She is being very selective with her analysis here. The general standard in the golden age was more vibrato not less, and often much faster vibrato which is considered to be undesirable today. Caruso was criticised for his lack of vibrato, he wasn't part of the golden age tradition, he was a revolutionary singer who established the more shouty version style that was taken up by Melocchi which emphasised vibrato and Bel canto less in favour of drama. If you want the actual pre melocchi 19th century standard you need to listen to Bonci and the sopranos of the day. Their singing was very stylised and had constant strong fast vibrato that was by 1940 considered affected or goat like .
There are more singers than ever in the world today but the general top singers today are shouting less and far more restrained than the singers following caruso until about the 90s where the emphasis was much more often on versimo impact and ear splitting notes. Kauffman is extremely restrained in his singing, more often he is criticised for that than shouting.
@@raphaelhudson this is very interesting and I have to agree, I hate when people say that today singers shout more, I believe the evolution (means changing) of singing is something natural, art in general most change with time if not it would be dead, I believe is not better or worse is just different. Once preferences are other matter. (I agree that many great singers of the mid/late XX century were loud and sometime sounded like shouting)
@@aifar Yes it is not that I dislike the more aggressive traditional approach, I studied with some famous Melocchi tenors myself. But to say it was easier is misconceived. Nobody in the golden era except maybe Gigli could achieve the dynamic and tonal control Kauffman does - and Gigli was a higher voice so it is not a fair comparison. I really dislike how singers tend to put themselves in one camp or the other of thinking there is one way and the other way is terrible. That is not at all true. Del Monaco would bring down the house; so does Kauffman today. For different reasons though, Del Monaco was visceral and direct and exciting, Kauffman on the other hand is capable of artistic feats no Melocchi tenor ever dreamed of. They are both heroes to me
@Ponyboy I have to disagree, but everyone in entitled to their own opinion. Saying that today singers have no technique for me is a bold statement. But if you prefer what you may have never experienced live is fine ( I don't know how old are you) I respect that.
Speaking as someone who is old enough to have seen live the greats of the immediate post war era, eg del Monaco, Corelli, di Stefano, Bastianini, Siepi, Callas, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Barbieri, Simionato and many others, all I have to say is that I gave up going to the opera around 10 years ago having despaired that I was ever likely to hear anyone again who sang with a free and easy sound rather than the new strangulated “manufactured” sound favoured by
today’s singers. I became tired of hearing the goat-like sounds and looking at the exaggerated acting (to compensate for the lack of proper singing technique) of today’s “stars”. It saddens me to hear the divine music of the great composers butchered and destroyed by badly trained singers who take little account of the composers’ markings on the score. Try following the score while listening to today’s singers to prove this. It is painful to sit listening to some of today’s stars and hold your breath waiting to see if they will make the next high note or cheat by avoiding it. Or worse still transpose the whole thing down so that they can make it! A few of them started off with reasonably good techniques but then developed ridiculous mannerisms to compensate for their inadequacies. And last of all what has happened to the proper mezzo and contralto voices? They have disappeared. Neither of the two mezzos in your example above (Garanca and di Donato) are what I would classify as mezzos. They have no lower register to speak of. They lack the right timbre for a mezzo.
I have always complained about exagerated vibrato because it muddles the pitch. Good to know I am not alone. Thanks.
It oscillates out of it
I have to say, as someone who has struggled to like opera (slowly getting there, overcoming my societal brainwashing), I prefer the old syle of singing, much easier on the ear and more emotive, more evocative. I really love legato and melismatic singing/playing too. My question would be why does modern opera tend to favour such heavy vibrato. I even know professional musicians that really do not like excessive, always on vibrato even on vocals. Its no surprise that most casual listeners are put of by it too.
I won't say all of them favour it, some of them have the excessive heavy vibrato due to damage caused by forcing the voice to sing repertoire that your voice isn't natural to. The other people sing excessive vibrato maybe due to bad technique. So ya. It's either bad technique or damage from forcing the voice (causing wobbles to form involuntarily)
Classical music in the baroque era use vibrato rarely only as an accent, then in the romantic era up untill the modern era it became popular to use vibrato all the time... When a note has no vibrato on the violin its tone is naked and if it is off even a little it is much more apparent. Not using it is much harder.
I agree, it is grating on the ears.
(Coming from an instrumental historical performance practice perspective)
We tend to underestimate the difference between historical and modern performance venues. The opera (and concert) halls of the 18th and 19th century were much smaller than, for example, New York's Metropolitan Opera. Modern styles were developed to convey emotion over a distance of more than 50 meters. Thus, if you hear modern opera singing in a small room or if the TV gets you close to the acting, it can seem utterly out of place and overdone.
@@ludgerstarke1017 So were the first films (silent and later): completely overdone and unnatural acting. Actors have adapted to the new media, why are singers still pretending microphones do not exist? ;P (they all use them now...so why not sing more "natural" and pleasing instead of still trying to be a human foghorn?)
I studied opera, and i love singing both art songs and arias, but i always found i enjoyed the style of older singers (Erna Berger, Amelita Galli-Curci and Dorothy Bond are a few of my favourites). There was something about their technique that felt free and effortless and i didn't know how to put it in words-- thank you for explaining so thoroughly and beautifully.
Someone once said a professional is someone who makes what they do look easy. A master does not appear to struggle with the task that puzzles the apprentice. I think the modern opera community forgot that philosophy.
@Gary Allen Ah---you have enormous pleasure ahead....................!
Thank for putting together this discussion and organizing the material and points well. As a recording engineer for 50 years, I would say the old recordings were trying to capture the sound very differently than the modern counterparts. The many limitations of recording bandwidth, lack of amplification, and limited dynamic range of the equipment, the recording engineers at the time were trying to maximize the abilities to the medium to present the singer's voice as close to in person. This largely meant small rooms and the singer standing close to the recording horn with the sound energy and vibrations directly cutting the groves in the record master.
In modern recording with much more flexibility, a lot of your samples were like record live, in situ on stage, with an attempt and recreating what the audience may have heard in the middle of the hall. One thing mostly absent in your old recording is natural or otherwise reverb, since the singer was so close to the horn, and the engineer likely was not interested in ambience. I can not say but the demands of the old recordings may have affected the delivery as well, to make a stronger and more articulate recording. Most singers today, expect the engineer to adjust to their style or environment and not the other way around. In my opinion the technology of sound recording and reproduction has greatly affected the styles of music, since it creation. For example sound amplification promoted the change from big bands to small and lest costly combos, The 6-transitor radio in the early sixties promoted rock and roll and less dynamic range so radio stations had further reach and large audience.
Thankyou for this knowledgeable and interesting analysis . As a non-technical person i have always felt that the old acoustic recordings (much as I love them) had many limitations. Thinking of sound as circles in a pond , the trumpets directed at the singer only captured the centre of the voice, a deal of colour and vibrato being lost. I have also read that they often sang at less than full strength , not only because of being in small rooms, but also to avoid "blasting", when the volume created too violent a vibration in the needle that was recording directly onto the wax.
Tempo was also very important as they sometimes were forced to sing at breakneck speed in order to get the whole aria onto a standard wax cylinder.
All these things make it very difficult to truly compare modern recordings with those of the late 19th and early 20th century. Its so frustrating (!)
Great insight! I would add that when listening to recorded music from the mid-1930's back, it takes a while to acclimate your ears to the sound the technology was able to capture at that time. For example, if you listen to Edgard Varese recordings from the 1920's it is really amazing how much they were able to capture with such limited recording technology but you need to give your ears time to adjust. We are all "spoiled" with the much more clean audio of the 1940's - 1950's and beyond. It also goes beyond just music and involves film sound as well. This all contributes to a bias we have as listeners.
Still the amount of high-level singers was a lot higher which is a key thing
I find it very interesting that the old style of singing was much more in alignment with what I was taught when playing the flute classically. All the points you brought up, especially tone, legato, and vibrato, were all expected parts of a musical performance on the flute. It's curious to me that opera moved in a very different direction compared to other instruments such as the flute.
I'll spin you a metaphor: "Effortless power rather than powerless effort"....the phrase is borrowed from golf. As in every realm, the key is the technique ie how is the goal best/most efficiently achieved. I'm 72 and I try to sing every day. I began vocal studies by accident in my late 20's and followed intermittently as location and finances allowed. In first "phases" technique was taught as "singing the mask". I guess I was able to do this as I was stroked and "hurrahed" by teachers...but that could have been a business decision on their part. Later, I discovered "open throat" technique basically on my own. The result was/is that I at age 72 warm-up to D 6 ( some days higher) and C 2 without loss of volume or strangulation. This is not a brag, this is an shared astonishment. I've never heard myself so I could sound like a squirrel caught in a Cuisinart. I sing coloratura parts from the Baroque as well as the Romantic canon, though some Verdi I find too heavy....not musically, but just it is plodding to my ear and I lack interest....as in most all of Wagner. My most current teacher used the term "bari-tenor", but didn't amplify and didn't believe that I had the range I described until I finally asked if I could demonstrate. I'll add to this that I heard an in-house recital of a noted college's vocal faculty...about 12 profs....and there was only one voice that I thought might have something to teach the unsuspecting student....some of whom will become poorly taught profs themselves. I heard the "yawn" referenced in footage or Garanca. I would say that "the yawn" is key in open throat singing as long as , like a shepherd's crook, the resonance seeks the "upper mask" above the brow rather than in the sinuses aside the nose. I think otherwise the sound in the "yawn" may get swallowed ( Valsalva ? method). Back to the "effort" metaphor...first teacher in England who was all the rage in the 20's on London stage with Heddle Nash, used to instruct me efforts to make a big powerful male sound, "Dear, that's not necessary....think of a bird....how small it is....and yet you can hear every note meters away"....A friend of mine who in the 50's used to do standing room at the Met on Sat matinees claims the difference in the modern day is that one used to look for seats back from the stage as those too close to gave one a headache from the volume and purity of voices of the then performers....and that today, one seeks the front rows in order to hear the singers.....This must be down to technique. I submit this as one wandering in the dark. I'm not a musician nor a performer....just like to sing though perhaps if I actually heard myself, I would cease to doing so. That's all....
Lilli Lehmann had very detailed instructions about diction. This was a key to the ease of her singing. My teacher, who was born in 1910, claimed to be a student of a student of Lehmann. I can't possibly check that; however, when I looked at Lehmann 's book How to Sing, I recognized exercises I had been taught. Without free diction no singer can have good legato
Food for thought.
Modern singers should watch this.
The frenetic vibrato is hell on my ears and I can’t believe it’s good for the singers’ voices.
As someone who also sings and acts myself, I really enjoy the old-school techniques of the past because I learned a lot more about proper projection, clearer tone, long-flowing legato, and rock-solid coordination between head and chest voices. After all, the greatest takeaways I have had in my training as a singer when I was a teenager is to never sing nasally or throatily and to enunciate clearly. The voice is an asset to be constantly nurtured with good technique and abundant clarity. It is never meant to be taken for granted. Yes, I do have my imperfections, and I am very aware of them. However, I have always remembered the foundations of good singing thanks to channels such as yours and many other channels that promote legitimately good singing. Cheers, Ziazan!
Thanks for this! When a loud, dark, and extremely covered tone is the only goal, singing becomes (to me at least) ugly and boring. There are quite a few of this type of singer earning a lot of money today. I believe that for singing to be elevated to the level of art, there must be nuance, variety, legato, emotion, and understandable diction.
As a 'light' soprano with little natural vibrato, I find this really interesting: and also reassuring! I've never liked really 'wobbly' voices and I actually think that for certain types of music there is maybe a trend towards the 'older' style singing that you describe. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts about Wagner, as I read once that actually Wagnerian Singers used not to have such heavy voices as the orchestra at Bayreuth wasn't/isn't actually a particularly big one - but I don't know if that's true.
In general, orchestras certainly did not play as loud as they do today. This obviously has had an effect on the development of operatic singing.
Vibrato was actually considered as rather bad taste in the 18th century and before. It was to be used very sparingly and just as the occasional ornament. If you listen to someone like Emma Kirkby for example singing early music or Handel/Bach. Violins in the orchestra also used no vibrato at all. I much prefer this way of singing or playing.
@@rickjensen2717 Emma Kirkby does have vibrato just very light, usually the heavier the orchestra the more intense the vibrato as you need it to project.
This is also partly to do with getting metal strings to sound and project, for which some use vibrato. Gut strings don’t project as well but also have very different character to the later metal strings so there are other options for shaping that don’t come as naturally the metal.
I have no knowledge or skill in this area, but, to the point of the commenter above, I remember one humble yet soft and beautifully voice female cantor in my church whose vibrato at the words “oh, it make me tremble, tremble, tremble” when singing Where You There When They Crucified My Lord felt so strongly like her voice was transporting us all right to Calvary, at the foot of the cross. It was the perfect place in the music for vibrato. It was the only time I ever heard her use it.
I always thought that opera vibrato was very jarring, exaggerated and over the top. Thanks for this. You deserve way much more subscribers. Cheers!
Incorrect vibrato (wobble, tremolo, etc.). Nowadays it is being trained improperly (like many other voice components).
@@ErfeanFalcorck I gave up on vocal training for this very reason.
No, incorrect vibrato is very jarring, proper opera vibrato should be pleasing and fitting.
@@baishihua You are correct, but unfortunately proper vibrato is not taught correctly. Thus Mario's comment is still valid as most opera that has been heard for decades is sung in a jarring, over the top manner.
@@thomasayresol I mean, not that I know anything about opera, let alone training. But the vibrato always sounded over the top, to me. Anyways, thanks for the response. Cheers
ONe of the major 20th-century changes, that affected opera in a profound way, was the invention of steel strings in 1912. Soon gut strings were a thing of the past. Gut strings have formants that compliment the voice, and let it easily ride over the orchestra. STeel strings have a much more aggressive formant structure that can often compete against a softer, smoother timbre.
Gut strings still exist, look it up.
@@gregdaweson4657 and the strings can be changed to accompany a soloist or a chorus.
@@gregdaweson4657 I think what that person meant is that gut strings are not the standards anymore, unlike the metal strings which are, I believe, the most common now.
Are they used on anything besides guitars? There usually are not many in the orchestra
@@gregdaweson4657 actually, you could look it up with a orchestral supply house online, I am sure, in their offerings for sale. When I was playing violin and viola in school, civic symphonies and other string ensembles, the most common (and affordable) strings to use were either a metal-coated gut string like aluminum on gut, or a metal on synthetic core, especially on lower strings, along with a steel E string (on violin). There were silver strings, but most student or civic players couldn't afford them. Straight gut strings were rarely if ever used, and I began playing in 1975.
Yes, gut strings are probably still available, but other than period emsembles that specialize in performance of Middle Ages, Renaissance, or Baroque music (also possibly RenFaire performers), they are probably rarely used.
Just found your channel! Glad to see you are still uploading. I'll be watching. Thanks for the amazing work and greetings from México 🌹.
I am so grateful for your channel! It makes so clear to me now what happened in my own singing. When I was in high school (back in the early 70s), I had a great teacher who worked with me as a baritone, but we both suspected I would eventually transition to tenor. She trained me with what I would call "BASIC (or rudimentary) Old School". She never got into a lot of "technique" other than to emphasize the importance of freedom from all vocal tension. This allowed the voice to develop naturally. After high school, I studied with a number of different teachers, all with differing views for proper singing. During that time I eventually did transition to tenor, but in doing so my voice became quite constricted as I was not able to properly make the transition in a natural way. I eventually stopped trying to sing professionally, and went another direction with my life. (That was in the 80s.)
It's only been in recent years, with the advent of You Tube, and a number of channels dedicated to "old school" singing, that I've been able to understand what happened, and have have been able to start rebuilding my voice from scratch! Unfortunately, at age 66 it's really too late to do much of anything with that, in terms of any hopeful career. But it's sure nice to now be able to sing in a away that I always wanted to, but was never able! So, MANY thanks to Ziazan, and those with similar channels, that have spoken out in favor of "old school singing"!
Please could you tell me which other channels talk about this old style?
Thought-provoking! I was brought up on the old singers - my father loved their sound and collected their recordings.
Hearing them again, they sound more subtle than the modern style, which I personally often find overwrought and bombastic.
As you say, there is much to admire in these historic recordings, and much to learn.
I don't know if you will see this comment 4 years after you made this video. As a trained singer I will say this. I was trained in the Bel Canto style. Back in the day, my voice was described as being bell like, especially as I went up the scale. My voice was said to be like that of a young Beniamino Gigli. Obviously the focus was on breath control and beautiful singing. Not because I want to lift myself up, but because I want to indicate how effective this style of singing was, I used to get standing ovations when I sang in concerts and recitals. I once auditioned at the Lyric Opera of Chicago and was offered to be contracted but because I was so young at the time, they requested that I not begin singing professionally for another three years to allow my voice to continue to mature. I followed their advice, but three years later there were other things that needed to take precedence. Because of this, I never began singing in the operatic circuit. A couple decades later I was learning about great singers that didn't debut until their middle age years and decided to begin vocal studies again. My voice was still workable, thankfully. Here's the thing, the focus on vocal production had changed. Instead of focusing on a beautiful voice I was being instructed to try to make the biggest sound possible utilizing more of a focus singing into my throat. Also, the way that I supported my voice, was now seen as kind of archaic. I prefer the Bel Canto style of singing. I never found a way to try to move into the world of opera then. No regrets. I have always used my voice in my ministry. I am so glad that you have developed this channel. I think it is important to explore the world of operatic singing. Peace be to you.
Wow, it's amazing to actually hear the same pieces performed, side by side, and directly compare them. And I agree, I actually prefer the seeming effortlessness and general style of the earlier performances. It sounds so much brighter and more natural. Legato could maybe explained to those who don't know what it is by using an instrument like the violin. Legate and staccato are essential concepts there, and "binding" the notes together to create a flowing sound is something that you can easily hear on a violin.
Wow. I still needed a minute after that Fernando de Lucia...
Yeah...
Just gorgeous 🥹
Thank you for ending with Ponselle! Such a distinguishable, beautiful, and flawless voice!
I grew up listening to opera with my parents (they took me to see Birgit Nilsson in Die Walkure when I was 10!). We sometimes talked about how singers today never sound quite as spectacular as they did even a few decades ago. Your video highlighted some of those differences brilliantly.
Having just viewed this video as a newcomer to your channel, I congratulate you for the educative structure of your presentation, for the ardor and gentility of your approach, and for the fair-minded selection of performances, “live” and recorded, which you utilized. On a personal note, I was delighted to hear a portion of the 1928 Ponselle-Pinza recording of “La vergine degli angeli.” I am Rosa Ponselle’s biographer (for Doubleday in 1982, and Amadeus in 1997), and had the privilege of listening to most of her recordings with her and noting her reactions to them. Again, my sincere thanks for such a splendid video presentation!
Thank you so much! Your books have been very helpful in my research. I would love to ask you a couple of questions, if you don’t mind? You can email me at operaphans@gmail.com
I think I could do a better transcript of that record now. It’s so wonderful, and I love Pinza, too. I can’t really capture the effect of hearing them on my EMG gramophone, but I think I’m getting closer to capturing the complex tone it recreates, so she doesn’t sound so much like she’s singing from inside a box, like on most transcripts!
I notice and appreciate the way you care for your own voice, speaking softly. As a new subscriber, I look forward to learning from your presentations and example.
I thought this also. I wonder if elocution lessons have been in order?
This is soooo interesting! Please keep your videos coming!
As a person who is just getting into opera and discovered it by chance, so glad to have you to guide me and tell me things it's so much fun! This is entirely different from my image of opera. I'm not gonna lie...it felt kind of intimidating when I first started listening and didn't really know who to ask about stuff and learn to appreciate the art form. After watching this video I feel like a whole new world has opened up! Thanks a bunch now it feels a lot better to understand why the modern opera sounds a little unpleasant to my ears I was surprised by some of the differences! Quite shocking! Thanks again! :D
I think this is why I love gospel music now. Grew up obsessed with opera, and learned as much about my voice as I could.
Fell in love with rnb and gospel and now I’m fascinated by cord closure, melisma and pentatonic scales. 🤷🏼♀️
In church they call it flat footed singing.
Rooted, clear flowing sound
Very illuminating, accessible, informative, well illustrated. THANK YOU!
I love the old style of opera! I would enjoy opera today if it was still sung in the old way.
Gosh! That was wonderful to listen to the comparisons! One of the reasons, I would value an opportunity to travel to the past, would be to REALLY hear how our contemporary performances sounded in comparison. In opera and symphonic works! Thank you so much 🤗💓
Superlative video!!! I have many records from the early XX Century and I treasure them. My cousin is a baroque soprano and viola da gamba player and my niece an important composer in New York... I was ill and in pain and you helped me to feel better. May God bless you from frozen Patagonia, Argentina.
RUclips served this up unexpectedly. Such a delightful surprise! Please more on this topic as promised.
Thank you for such an interesting video and comparison. It seems to me that the 'old' way of singing might be in many cases, Bel Canto. This style of singing emphasizes legato, clarity of vowel, and a sense that the breath is moving under the voice to support it in a very natural and holistic way. When you listen to the old singers with their wonderful ability to change dynamics and carry a long note so sweetly, with their beautiful tone, one wonders if the invention of the microphone, and the need to sing in large houses with huge orchestras, have taken us a little in the wrong direction. Still, there are many many beautiful singers these days... art is always a process. Hopefully we can learn from both the old and new, as you say, and combine it into a new style of 'painting' music.
I discovered your channel about a year ago, at the age of 26, and I want to just thank you for making this channel and for everything you're trying to achieve.
I have been a musician and music lover since the time of my very first memory, and discovering this perspective you put forward here and these old records has been nothing short of a revelation.
These videos were the starting point which has sent me down a path that is in the process of changing my life, considerably for the better.
(Though I am less able to tolerate bad singing, but it is a small price to pay)
I have never been more creatively inspired, or excited by where music will take me next (which really is saying something).
I cannot thank you enough.
What a pleasure to hear those old recordings and the wonderful voices.
Often the older styles are also a lot easier to understand.
The Rachmaninoff as the background music in your intro is perfect. ❤️👏 Your insights and commentary are informed and well presented. Keep up the good work!
which piece is playing in the background when she speaks around 1:50?
@@NightlyEvilTM Rachmaninov piano concerto no.2 slow movement.
I'm sort of an opera newbie. I liked your discussion of legato. I have a recording of an opera where one of the singers sings so smoothly even when she makes big jumps in notes that it makes me think of water flowing. I love that sound! Few other singers sound so smooth.
Just seeing your channel for the first time! Love your insight and teaching, thank you very much.
Love your enlightening analysis. I think something to keep in mind regarding tone, is that early recording techniques were unable to capture lower frequencies, so that any 'early' voice you are listening to has a treble bias.
Wow 🤯
It is about time someone pointed out a few home truths about singing! The Old School singer sang with consistent focused tone and how they got this was something to do with how they used their vocal cords.
The old recordings are much more enjoyable than modern Opera. Modern Opera seems so constantly loud and overly dramatic whereas in these old recordings you get more feeling and depth
m.ruclips.net/video/1iX4HPVW-wI/видео.htmlm33s
For instance?
As a person who's seen La Boheme and Tosca in the Metropolitan Opera house as well as Aida and Nabucco in the Verona Arena, I can say that modern singers are often less dramatic and less loud. In youtube recordings most modern singers are artificially amplified. In the production of Aida I watched Anna Netrebko was playing Aida. She was MUCH quieter than recordings on youtube; I could barley hear her throughout most of her range, only her high notes were somewhat audible but still very quiet, even in O Patria Mia. Apart from sounding worse today, most modern singers don't have the capacity to be loud enough to excite the senses. I will admit many are loud enough to be heard, but only in part of their range, and only quietly. They certainly don't fill the theaters with their sound.
This channel is a treasure! Thank you so much!
I really enjoyed that explanation and illustration of the points being made. A really great job of exposition. Thanks!!!
If I remember well the improvement training my grandfather (Oreste Lollini) was giving : in the past there was so much more work, so much more hours of repeating the same phrases again and again, the result is that with modern singers we can feel that they try hard, while the singer of the past outputs the performance as a flow and it looks effortless, it sounds more natural, focusing more on the acting part of the singing more on the MEANING of the scene and words so it gives chills and make the audience cry. This specific trait can also be heard on the piano, and seen on ballet dancers.
These explained operatic techniques will sure enhance appreciation of many operas... Thank you for the meticulous comparisons contained therein, they are treasures! 👍
A fabulous series. Thank you so much.
This is fascinating, expertly done, and accessible to musical amateurs like me. Thank you so much! Subscribed!
wow. just wow. thank you so much for teaching us this. it's mind-blowing 😮 the tone, the legato, the vibrato...just wow
Francesco Tamagno almost blew my head right off my shoulders!!
What a sensationally magnificent dude!!!
I work in violin restoration and I’m always exploring how I hear sound and refining my understanding. We constantly make parallels to singing, but few actually listen to singers. I’m still learning to understand much of the older techniques, and I learned a couple things. Thank you!
This was lovely. Being somewhat versed in operatic matters, this impressed me still for its structured presentation, great production script and materials. Plus…you look lovely! Wished we lived closer😢
Wow! I cannot tell you how happy I am to have found your channel! This is so fascinating !! I never liked opera because it always sounded so boring and with soooo much vibrato but hearing these old videos make my heart sing! Oh how far has society fallen in every aspect ! It seems even opera has been changed for the not-so-good 💔
So sad that so many singers today on major stages who are considered as rather "famous", etc. have a serious wobble in their voice. Not vibrato, but a wobble where two discernible pitches are audible. And yet in so many live Met broadcasts the house shouts "bravo" after a truly sorry performance. If principle wind or brass players had something similar in their playing they would be fired. Aside from a trill, composers only wrote one pitch to be sung on a note.
I often think that the wobble vibrato - which I've also heard in bowed strings, very popular mid-20th century-- is a substitute for actual phrasing. I think phrasing is also what is meant by legato. Can you tell it annoys me when people don't do phrasing? Before this video I watched one of Sister Rosetta Tharpe. She's got phrasing in her pinky finger, and everywhere else.
This has been such a beautiful experience! Thank you for sharing. The vibrato thing is so obvious for me, I was part of a choir for 10 years and the choir singing demands to control the vibrato to the max so the sound of all the voices together is clear, that's why we "hate" vibrato also when opera choirs sing choir repertoire it sound odd to me, I prefer a true choir even amateur to a pro opera choir most of the times.
You are doing a real service bringing back the “phantoms.” I have about 20 Caruso 78s, and they are a treasure! I look forward to your other videos.
I am so glad that the algorithm finally led me to your channel.
Will we ever see an opera as an animated feature?
Thank you for the video and invitation to discuss these concepts! I appreciate all of your presentation here (and this is not at all to discount the hypotheses you are presenting), but as an experienced classical singer and someone who understands recording techniques, a few of the big questions that come up for me when considering historical recordings is a) what overtones are missing, since the recording medium couldn't reproduce the whole spectrum b) what vocal compromises may have been asked for by the recording engineers c) I often hear much quicker spin in so many singers of the early recording eras ("Rossini-singer" type vs. heavier fachs) than today, and d) performance spaces are *ridiculously* huger than historic houses, so naturally the technique has morphed to accommodate that sad reality.
I lament with you especially the unvaried tone usually asked for by teachers. When I coached with Rockwell Blake, he was keen to point out Garcia's charge to use both chiaro and oscuro tones. I recommend this to my students as well.
I am just a guitar player writing songs and singing like a cowboy (some might say like the cow), so this deep information about singing as an art is very helpful even for the simpler presentation of songs. I learned more about Quality in singing, and projecting a deeper Emotional impact in a song.
brilliant, fantastic work!
Oh and I wanted to say I love the sound of your speaking voice !
Very interesting analysis - and what a beautiful warm speaking voice you have!
Beautiful! Thank you for sharing!
love this series. I never realized the changes that took place over the decades/centuries. I
have so much to learn. MORE, MORE!!!
This channel, and others who compare old school opera singers, have been such a blessing to me. I listened to these old singers on my parents' 78s from being born. The sound is deeply ingrained. As a result, I'm unable to listen to modern popular singers which I find joyless and soulless. From a conference, many years ago, at the Royal Festival Hall, I learned from teachers, singers and throat surgeons, that modules of traditional training had been removed from the curriculum.
I'm so glad to have found your channel, its the first time i hear about these differences in styles from anyone but my mother.
She explained to me that she studied an older traditional Italian style/technique and 'her' opera doesn't agree with the majority of current conductors and artists.
Growing up with her selection of artists and her singing, spoils turning on the TV and taking in the 'incredible' performance broadcasted. Most performance will either not catch my interest or straight up irritate me.
So it was a pleasant surprise to find a channel showing bits of performances which actually reach me, after i had already given up on anything other than my moms reccomendations. I will definitely do her a favor in recommending this channel.
Also ill try my best to digitize her old studio recordings, i doubt it will take convincing to have her put them on RUclips. Maybe there's still an audience for her slightly out of fashion style XD
Very good , informative video. This video helps me to keep abreast with the history of the opera.
What a treat to discover your channel! In the late 60's I was the lucky recipient of 78 records, mainly opera singers from the 1920's: Lucrezia Bori, Amelita Galli-Curci and of course Caruso. All other singing in my studies and my music life had this standard to live up to. Indeed, their approach was radically different but not until much later on did I get an explanation.
This came in the treatise on singing by Cornelius Reid "Bel Canto" and later on, other books by him. He pointed out that much of the modern singing (the book having been written in the 50's) had the same heaviness, lack of color but also not really being on pitch resulting from undue pressure (same with wide vibrato) and "effort".
In the 90's I was privileged to study with Solomon Khromchenko from the Bolshoi, by then outside of Russia. He himself studied with a Bel Cantist, Nina Dorliak (sp?) who in turn was in Paris before the Revolution. He himself was a light tenor (in America we would say "Irish" tenor) with an engaging sound and limpid high notes. He kept his voice pristine into his 90's. Tenors as a rule lose their voices quicker than sopranos when they insist upon those high C's "in petto" (which Rossini himself didn't like and make me grimace).
The point about good things, fine food and wine, for instance, if one doesn't have a point of reference, one might think that Three Tenors are just great (even though their combined vibrati are really cacophonous) and that a sweating singer or pianist emoting gives better quality music. It is interesting you chose the Rachmaninoff concerto for the opening. He himself was a model of restraint at the piano.
Singing itself can be the "Don Fatale", the fatal beautiful gift (cited above) that can make or break a person.
This is very thoughtful. And your point about Rachmaninov is interesting, because he wrote about what he owed to Chaliapin: the great singer's subtle use of vocal colour (and microtones) inspired Rachmaninov's writing and performance. Not the first pianist to have been fascinated by a singer, of course (Chopin trying to emulate Pasta, for instance)! but subtlety rather than bombast is rare as a griffin's feather...
I don't know how far you can generalize from the old recordings. As a kid I had a 78 rpm recording of an operatic singer, perhaps recorded in the late 30s, whose vibrato on long notes was so extreme and so impressive to me that I used to slow the recording down to 16 on my record player just to listen to its wild variations. Wish I knew who the singer was.
Wonderful video! Thank you so much.
Thanks for the sensibility of putting a pause after Fernando De Lucia: it was needed! :)
I found the vibrato part interesting. One thing I intensely dislike in opera is when a singer's vibrato is so wide that they never actually hit the pitch they're aiming for, they just wobble around it. I'm delighted to know that is a more modern thing. I bet I would have like opera much more in the older times.
Thank you for this wonderful channel! As an oboist, I can agree with so many things, especially on the subject of color and dynamics. During our studies we learn that all tones should sound as equal as possible at any volume. What a waste of opportunities... So many colors are possible on the oboe in particular and I love using them! Apart from the fact that the heavy, dark tone in superfast tempo that is common today is completely out of place with the light-sounding and clear baroque music. Finally I quit orchestra playing and do my own thing.
Try baroque oboe, it’s a real eye opener and the music makes so much more sense.
Wouldn't it be interesting to hear a similar comparison of current vs older styles of oboe timbre? In that case I'd argue in favor of current approaches.
What a wonderful documentary! Full of knowledge and accesible for people that, like me, are not able to distinguish the opera qualities as the so beautiful hostess. Thanks.
I must comment on this! As someone who is not musically 'literate', can't read music, just a lover of almost everything musical since childhood, I've become a fan by listening, and to modern-era voices. I'm fascinated however by what you're saying. My one live performance was a visit to a recent Houston performance of Turandot with utterly bizzarro staging, so weird it was difficult (but not impossible) to just enjoy Puccini's music and singing. Thank you for being so fine a communicator, and for the amazing content and continuous creativity in production.
So interesting. Thank you. I think the older style might appeal more to the younger and uninitiated audiences that opera needs to attract these days to financially survive.
Very interesting. Love to hear the different examples.
Hi
I really love your videos as you cover so many topics. I also love listening to old recordings as I am a clarinetist. I have a massive collection of old recordings not just instrumental items but singers also. Playing the clarinet is as close to singing as one can get and so studying singers has always been essential to me.
Sorry, I am going off the topic a bit !!
I hope we can discuss musical approaches of singers past. It is amazing to find another musician who is interested in old recordings.
Very best wishes
Marc
I adore your dive into the 78s… it's sad that so many have been left to fester away, unloved and forgotten. A treasure trove of music that is of no interest to the likes of Apple iTunes and such but which deserves a far more lasting archive.
I wish I had come across your channel earlier, but it looks like I've got plenty to catch up on. 😁
thank you for introducing me to Fernando di Lucia. What a moving performance!!
That song always makes me tear up, but wow, his rendition …let’s just say I needed that break!
I actually needed that pause after de Lucia ... damn!
Neat. I prefer the subtle vibrato from the older recordings.
I appreciate the subtle everything from the older recordings. And now in the era of Opera in the movie theater, subtlety is dead even though you would think that such a venue would facilitate that.
Fascinating! Thank you!
Thank you for this great lesson!
A beautifully produced series by a lovely person with an arch sense of humor and the most mellifluous speaking voice on earth. I could listen to her speaking voice all day.
I generally agree with her opinions. I would, of course, like to know what her credentials are. Mine are simply 10 years of studying voice, singing a score of small roles with insignificant local opera companies, 10 years of singing in the Washington Opera Chorus, and 50+ years of listening to singers.
Whatever our credentials, we must avoid arrogant attempts to lay down the law (e.g., This is opera…), be careful not to confuse our opinions with facts, and not assume that what we hear through old recordings is anything like what a live listener would have heard.
We cannot trust verbal descriptions of certain aspects of a singer’s art, such as the timbre and especially the sheer size of the voice. Indeed, the ONLY way to judge the size of a voice is to experience a live performance. Given how our opinions today can widely differ even when recording technology fairly represents a singer's voice and art, we should not assume that we would agree with a person writing in 1857, 1657 or 1457
We must ESPECIALLY not assume that what we hear on old acoustic (pre-1926) recordings is representative of what most singers sang like in those by-gone days. Primitive recording technologies were insufficient in capturing the full range of audible sound, and so the timbre of a voice may be severely misrepresented. Check out pspatialaudio.com/acoustic%20recordings.htm and littlecornerofamusiclover.com/acoustic-recording-vs-electric-recording/ The latter suggests the recording process pre-1926 could only capture a frequency range of about 100-2500 hz. Far too little to capture the overtones that make up much of the timbre.
Also remember, that until the advent of RUclips, self-produced media and digital ubiquity, only a tiny fraction of the singers performing in opera ever made it into the recording studio or radio transcriptions. We cannot know how the vast majority of opera singers (well or ill-trained) sang or what their style was. Today, we can hear and see not only the leading lights and lesser-known singers from secondary opera houses around the world, but we can also hear every singer who has a bit of equipment and the courage to present him or herself publicly. Hence, when we try to compare the “typical” singer of today with whatever prior age we deem to be golden, the comparison becomes unfair. The size of the sample now is far larger and less selective.
If you were to compare the greatest of today’s singers with the “golden age” singers as preserved on record, modern singers wouldn’t come off so badly. In other words, we must avoid the sin of partisan political writers, which is to cherry pick only the facts that prove their point.
Vibrato¸ I agree - it’s gotten unpleasantly slower and wider but I do not think it occurred as long ago as the presenter states. Listen to Met broadcasts from the 40s, 50s and up into the 60s and you will rarely hear an unhealthy wobble in the leading artists or comprimarii. Halls were much smaller in the old days, and now singers push for more volume at the expense of their voices and perhaps that leads to wobble.
Effortfulness. This comparison between old and new may be invalid. Without seeing the performer move while singing the demanding passages, one cannot judge the degree of effortfulness. Tamagno’s voice on Di Quella Pira sounds strangled to me, and for all we can tell his body was a wad of tight muscles. Placido Domingo and James McCracken’s bodies appeared wracked with tension and effort. McCracken also sounded as if he were suffering physical torment while singing. With Domingo however, the sound and singing did not betray such great physical effort. In any case, this problem is worse with tenors than with other voices.
Agility. You are probably right that singers in all fachs were required to have greater agility 100 + years ago. However, you have cherry picked Anna Netrebko, who is widely criticized as having sub-standard agility. Can you find no leading sopranos today who sing with much greater agility. In the tenors, we have in recent decades had many singers (Florez, Brownlee, Gimenez, Rockwell Blake) who can fully execute florid passages with ease and accuracy. (You might use Hermann Jadlowker’s recording of Fuor del Mar as a stunning example of agility in a voice that also sand Otello)
Many thanks indeed for a revelatory and sometimes very moving posting! Wonderful to see you there with your 78 collection. I had 1000s of 78s and LPs but at age 70 have had to give them away or otherwise dispose of them. I rely, as luckily we can to a certain extent, on reissues and RUclips itself, which can have a wonderful effect. I used to do a lot of vocal coaching, and on one occasion a student of 20 asked me, ' Do you like - have you ever heard - a soprano called Elisabeth Schumann?' Maybe one cause of the heavy vibrato and the covered sound is the change in the sound of orchestras, much louder and thicker than 100 years ago. You mentioned, then dropped, the effect of the microphone. I've attended concerts with people unused to live classical music, and they are used to having the sound 'fed' into their ears by the recording. Thank you, I hope despite your illness you can keep this channel going,
I really thank God that I stepped into your page. Will follow faithfully waiting for your knowledgeable and inspired insights. I am just an amateur but love variety and hate monopoly of sounds and styles, and have been attracted to the traditional style of singing when I started hearing samples of singers from the beginning of the 20th century. I just don't understand the trend of the latest opera singers of lack of dynamics, the de facto inexistence of singing almost in a whisper and yet being heard in the whole theatre. It seems that most of the current singers have to always sing at 11. I would also like your opinion of the Russian historic tenor Segei Lemishev. Thank you a lot for your effort and your quest.
I always tell people to listen to older recordings if I were to recommend an opera to listen to. The quality may be a bit muddy, but the wonderous singing and instrumentation shines right through.
Joseph Keilberth, Furtwangler, Zillig, Kempe, and Hans Knappertsbusch have some amazing post-war Wagnerian recordings.
I love this!
Thank you for your great effort in creating this channel. Finally here's someone that tells the truth about the problem of modern day opera over~singing! I am a classical singer myself who loves opera and art songs equally. There is a very poor trend of singing with a lot of effort, and darkening one's tone, also a temptation to sound bugger than what one is naturally born with. I am fortunate that my teacher is from the old school who despise all that. Netrebko sings Non MI Dir really makes me cringe, btw 😅 I am curious about your thought on Maria Callas.
@Gary Allen totally agreed 👍 she's a very lucky person I guess. She doesn't always sing badly, but she sings things that are too heavy for her, the wobble tells all.
@Gary Allen o
During Fernando de Lucia's performance, I broke into tears. I've always hated opera for how impersonal it sounds. I heard de Lucia's sobs in his music, and I couldn't help but feel them, too. Stunning . . .
Thank you!
As you speak of the lack of audible or visible effort, the term, "impressive" is an interesting choice of words. Very rarely is a display of effort accurate to the moment in the story, and powerful passions are not shown by a display of effort. Nineteenth century voice/expressive movement/acting/art teacher Francois Delsarte spoke of singing having the goal to move the audience, rather than impress them.
I teach all my students these principles that you are discussing here. All of them develop an appreciation for the sound and musicality of the earlier singers. I am very happy to see that there is now a trend to notice these differences and maybe some of these qualities can return. On the subject of the constantly dark color of the modern era, it is as if the youth of many of the characters in the stories is left behind, but it is a mental part of their being. The lovers are young, and brightness sounds young, and leaves room for darker sorrow if they come upon heartbreak. Theater is still theater. Thank you for creating this. I hope that it awakens the ears of many future singers.
Quite interesting to compare this to instrumental techniques too, for example you would hear old recordings with violin or cello cantilenas with little or no vibrato, something that is unthinkable today! And the aspect of effort, these days it's really important to put on a show, and it's called "artistry", a sign of free and relaxed playing. Sure, you need to be free to be able to do that, but I feel the aim is way to often to impress, rather than to move peoples' hearts. It's such a relief to see someone like Horowitz, who had no unnecessary movements, but that's also something from days gone by...
Thank you!!!! My daughter is studying opera at University of North Texas. Even though I have a music background, I could not comprehend what was meant by bel canto. Your explanations and examples give me a better grasp of opera and bel canto.