The vibrato is really what kills opera for me. Such beautiful melodies only to be ruined by constant heavy vibrato. Listening to an hour of soprano voices wobbling away is very grating!
All opera is, is a bunch of bullshit, done to your voice. You waste all these years of time and money, to sound like you are having a meltdown, or a bad day. It's not music to me. I hate musicians that like to make their instruments sound like that, with old electronics and effects.
@@pedrohasallthepower There's just too much of it these days. What used to be a mere ornament basically became the entire foundation of modern operatic singing. Most singers do vibrato CONSTANTLY, it's straight up impossible to make out any melodies of whatever they are wobbling about...
Wobble is NOT the same thing as vibrato. VIbrato is necessary in any opera after really early rep. Wobble is what happens when the voice gets older or the singer has poor technique.
Well, I understand that the same thing is happening to opera as to many other artistic disciplines, it is degenerating from the inside, turning it into something completely different. As is now the case with art in museums, made up of bananas taped to the wall, they need a context to support their narrative, they need an intellectual behind to say that it is art, like modern opera, it takes intellectuals who say that this is also opera, even if it does not respect the essence of what opera really is. So, in conclusion, everything over time degenerates or is transformed, and many times the essence of what was, is lost. Sound rude, but, i think that's basically what is hapenning in this times with everything.
To tell you how far opera has fallen in popularity, my Dad was born on a farm in Lawton, Oklahoma in 1946. He knew who Rosa Ponselle was, because they played her on the radio. And when I was born and started singing in the pick up truck with him, he’d have on Rosa as we drove around, and I’d sing with her. People don’t like opera anymore, and it’s because the sound doesn’t grab you. No amount of sound mixing can fix the lack of chest voice mixed throughout the voice. It sounds like they’re all swallowing potatoes when they sing these days, and when you go to master classes, they actually want that sound. They’ll try to take you off track by telling you you’re using too much chest, but they don’t understand that it’s a coordination to be practiced just like hitting a backhand. You don’t do it perfectly at first.
The difference between the old and new singers is night and day. Tebaldi's sound is forward, uses a strong head voice instead of a weak head voice, and has no manipulation through force. Sonya has amazing acting; but, must work on her technique. Unfortunately, you have many skilled actors in opera who have bad technique. But, the thing that they are missing is making the emotions loud through their voice and not just showing everything with their bodies. I think we should all make a petition to get these singers trained old school and then have them make opera movies for the 20s-30s crowd.
For me this skilled actors in modern opera days don't deliver any emotion, because in Opera you must deliver blend of acting and singing (to make the impact on the crowd), this a true reason that this art is so hard.
There’s still hope though! There are hidden gems in the young generation. There’s a young Bulgarian soprano called Krista Petkova. She doesn’t have a lot of recordings online, nor her technique is perfect, but she’s different than most. I really hope she’s educated on old school opera, not merely talent that lead her up to this point..
Singers of the past weren’t afraid to use their chest voice! I feel like that’s being taught out of modern singers, and chest voices are becoming weaker as a result (and thus, so is the head voice bc when you have a weak bottom foundation, you can’t expect a strong upper range on top of it). The acting point is so true too!
All of the above and I think what also adds to the deterioration of great operatic singing and opera as a result is the prevalence of cronyism. Before it was very simple - can you SING so that your voice resonates above the orchestra and excites the audiences. Now is who you know in the industry to give you a role, voice had become a secondary or even tertiary consideration!
Hello I'm French and I'm very glad to see your video again. You missed me a lot!! Your work has opened my eyes on "Le beau chant or Bel Canto". I understand know why I dislike the modern singers. Abs why I definitely prefer the ancien style of singing. Thanks for your work!
I used to like arias only. Once I attended a few operas, I began to appreciate the genre. Now, I attend every opera I can. Once you have seen opera live, you can appreciate the records. Without experiencing live opera, you won't like opera. It's the same with ballet. Live performances add a brand new dimension to your experience and appreciation.
@Corey H it’s true to an extent. A decent live performance will trump a great recording in my mind almost every time. A much more visceral experience. And this is a guy who can only afford student tickets.
Yes! The Late Great Jerry Hadley echoed the same sentiment. He said that because it has been bastardized and moved from the concert stage inside the college voice studio that singers are learning it completely divorced from its original home.
@@miguelpereira9859 Most of the old great singers had private voice teachers who were usually famous singers who retired and became voice teachers for the younger generations. But in Europe students do not learn to be music performers (either vocal or instrumental) in Universities but in specialised Music Condtevatoires. They generally learn to play a musical instrument from childhood with a private teacher, or going in their spare time for music lessons to a music conservatoire which takes child pupils until they are about 16-18. At that age they go as full time students to a music conservatoire for about 3-4 years and at the same time take part in performances at the Conservatoire to familiarise them with how their careers will develop. The atmosphere in these Conservatoires is very different from a university because they are specialist institutions. In addition there are numerous specialist Voice Academies some of them started by retired famous singers eg The voice academy in Italy owned by Mirella Freni and several others. There is also the Rossini Academy in Pesaro specially for teaching how to sing Rossini’s music. And many others.
I had a chance to study at the Opera Academy in São Paulo, having a fair amount of activities physically in the theatre and the course was very practical and focused on rehearsing, preparing the part, improving our acting and performing with orchestra. It was totally different from university kind of learning, I believe we need more initiatives like this 💕
This pretty much sums up my gut feeling when watching modern 'master classes' where the Pros over-explain, over-intellectualize, project too much meaning into the singing instead of just singing.
Contemporary singers are anti vocal, anti aesthetic, caricatures, but artistic directors, stage directors, conductors, are all same . Thanks to older and eternal generation of opera, that we know what opera is. Mario del Monaco, Franco corelli, Miguel fleta, Merli, Gigli , Caruso, Tebaldi, so many others ☀️👏❤
My only regret is that I can't put more than one like to this perfect video. I totally agree, also with the choice of the tenors, just the best like Corelli, Di Stefano and the glorious Mario Del Monaco. So many times I asked to myself why modern Opera singers are so bad, and of course if I was the only one to see the terrific condition of Opera or not. Thank you very much
Your not alone in your observation in the fall of the Greatest art form in the world. I've been following Saioa Hernandez for sometime now & she's has a great technical sounding voice . Our Montserrat 🙏🙏💙💙 said it all " that the opera houses were sleeping because Saioa Hernandez should be signing in all of them. And to me she is the voice of the century " let's face it artistically speaking the met is not Mecca. It's a Large beariful opera house filled with voiceless ghost , destroying OPERA. sincerely, Arnold Bourbon Amaral
You make a good point about 1970 as a watershed date. The last of the greats - Corelli, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Sutherland - had their prime in the 50’s and 60’s. By ‘70 they were in decline, and no one followed.
I have watched most of the "This is opera" videos and subscribed, they are so on point.. who authored them? Is it a teacher/Conductor? I would so love to know.. Teacher or Conductor or Singer you certainly are a Maestro of this art form, I have learnt so much!
Yo no puedo contestar esa pregunta pero para demostrar que se puede cantar ópera hay que salir en un teatro, sin amplificacion, pasando una orquesta y cantando una partitura que alguien compuso y no canciones arregladas para la tesitura vocal del cantante. Es muy diferente.
Thank you for these videos. I could never quite put my finger on why the newer singers always sounded either squeaky or strangled to me. You do a good job explaining exactly why.
The elitist pretentiousness and the declining skill and talent of the singers are just *consequences* of opera's no longer being popular, not its causes: fewer people sing it and listen to it, hence the smaller pool of talent and less 'manpower' devoted to maintaining and developing its excellence; and since it no longer corresponds to popular taste, the people who do still listen to it are often motivated precisely by an attraction to its elitist reputation, hence the snobbish antics and, sometimes, even some negligence of aesthetics and real quality.
Totalmente de acuerdo contigo,. Añado lo siguiente. Hoy en día se hacen producciones operísticas que faltan el respeto al compositor. Por eso, yo personalmente agradezco a todos los que suben los performances de antaño, yo los disfruto mucho. Pues, corresponde al tiempo en que había belleza en el canto: el recitativo, la declamación,…la fidelidad a la partitura, entre otras cosas. Me encanta que en 22:39 hayas puesto las palabras de la maravillosa Tebaldi (la voce d’angelo). Es cierto, lo que ella dice, la mayoría de los cantantes de hoy en día tienen voces muy pequeñas y no son recursivos en el uso de estas. Esto lo he vivido. Yo vi y escuché en vivo a Eva Marton, era impresionante su voz. He regresado al teatro y las voces de las sopranos y mezzos apenas se oyen. A lo mejor es como dicen hay otro concepto de ópera, otra reconceptualizacion en detrimento de este bello arte. Parece que hay un afán por producir performance al gusto del pensamiento de hoy y así atraer gente nueva. De esta manera lo que han hecho es ponerle otro traje a la ópera, para que guste y sea atractiva. Sacrificando así el drama , la palabra, la partitura. Una cosa gravísima en estos tiempos. Aun así, no hay que olvidar que el arte es y seguirá siendo esperanzador. Saludos cordiales.
La prima donna You are right about the difference between the great singers of the 50s and 60s and the singers of today. I am old enough to have seen these giants of the opera live in the opera houses of Europe and thank God for being alive to witness these miraculous performances. Sadly the decline is very great and very unfortunate for the younger opera lovers of todays. Singers like Corelli, del Monaco, di Stefano, Bastianini, Callas, Sutherland, Tebaldi, Simionato and many others are no longer and as things are at present singers like them will never appear again. In my opinion the two biggest things that have happened since then to bring this decline are 1. Singers are taught to sing primarily to preserve their voices so they can go on singing until their 60s or even 70s. A few of them have the vocal cords and technique that can allow them to do that, but they are very rare. However, the quality of the singing is inferior as a result. But the modern techniques taught at present are all about a long career and not about quality of sound. The second reason for the decline is that the productions of the last 40 years or more have become a “director’s” show to show how he can re-create the original work with the aim of making it “modern” and “relevant” under the impression that this will entice more people to go to the opera. Most of the time the actual opera audiences dislike what they see (and sometimes boo) even if they like what they are listening to. For me the main reason that younger generations cannot relate to Opera is because the vast majority of them do not hear any classical music while growing up, they are not taught about it at school nor taken to any performances as children so in general the sound of classical music, and opera in particular is very alien and unfamiliar to their ears. They grow up thinking that music =pop music. So unless these two issues are addressed at their point of origin Opera will slowly wither and die.
thanks for this video..the worst for me was always the fat wide vibrato and too much throat in the sound opening too wide but the direct and nasal resonance in maria callas' voice and expressive dramatic truth led me to love opera and as a result I created my own mixed sound that is natural and unique to who I am.
As someone who just came here to know why people enjoy opera, I can hear the clear differences between the old and new singer. I have never ever been a fan of opera. I thought it’s annoying. I still do but the old opera sounds a lot more pleasant than the new ones. Without being too technical, I think it sounds a lot more polished and controlled. I still don’t get why people enjoy opera but I guess everyone will have their own entertainment. Btw, this is not an insult or anything. I’m just someone who’s genuinely curious about opera.
My intro into opera were recordings of Bjorling and De Los Angeles followed by a large dose of Sutherland. I had the pleasure of seeing Te Kanawa live in Melbourne, but that was only a recital and not a full opera. Nevertheless, to my tiny suburban mind, I thought she was amazing. Later in life I worked at the Victorian Arts Centre, and I had the privilege of enjoying many vocal performances of both classical and modern repertoires including many opera productions of the Australian Opera. I was initially very disappointed by the singing for all the reasons you have highlighted in this video, but I take my hat off to all the performers who had the guts to get up and sing in the full knowledge that the audience was probably critical of everything they did. I saw everything from the Sun Aria competition for new and emerging artists to full seasons of Alcina Carmen Butterfly Magic Flute ( I was an usher, so I saw every performance in a season) i came away from this time in absolute awe of the entirity of the opera experience and found I enjoyed the live, if flawed, performance exhilarating and sometimes overwhelming. I hope that people will continue to listen to and enjoy opera and the glory of the human voice and maybe one day we will be lucky enough to see again anotjer Callas or Sutherland and the artform will be revived for another generation. (I will say thuough, if you are performing Carmen and the horse gets more applause than the human cast members you really need to pick up your game 😂)
Nobody is saying Opera doesn't take skill. But just because something takes skill doesn't make it GOOD. If I sculpted a scale model of the Mona Lisa out of my own feces, that would take a lot of skill. It would also not be good. Using your voice to skillfully make unpleasant noises is not good. Ifd you like Opera, you are ALLOWED to like Opera. Not a single person on the face of this Earth will force you to stop liking Opera. But, conversely, You need to accept and aknowledge that you like a thing that most people DON'T like, and recognise that there are legitemate reasons WHY they don't like it. You are allowed to E I E I O all you want. But most people aren't going to like that, and you should get of your high horse and stop guilting them for it.
As awful as Mr and Mrs Netrebko are Renne's foray into verismo is beyond horrible. Of course she never sang a Puccini opera (to the best of my knowledge) for which we should all be grateful. Whoever was singing Vesti (Cura???) is pretty bad but at least his career was very brief. I'm sorry I checked out after those three.
La culpa la tiene el stablishment de la opera, te cierran las puertas si usas el canto antiguo, y el que quiere vivír de esto no le queda otra, lo dijo el mismo kraus.
Can you please criticize the video of a country singer (Caroline Jones) who attempts to teach Bel Canto while singing terribly? I'd love to hear your take on it 😆
Opera was much more of a popular force in the past which also produced a lot more aficionado's and critics. On top of that, sheet music was disseminated to the middle class so they could perform numbers in their own homes with friends and family, adding to the demands of hearing a perfect performance on stage. Performers were routinely roasted in the press and in personal correspondences by the public for poor technique of all sorts. There's nothing new about any of this.
I think to the unfamiliar and general audience, they sound almost exactly the same and would have the same appeal honestly. The technology of the old recordings made things sound lighter in timbre and I think you may be attributing too much of that to technique. I agree that Opera today focuses a lot on Big, Round, Loud voices and not a beautiful, unique ones. But the reason Opera isn't as popular is because it is out dated in terms of what people are looking for in entertainment. 3-4 hours of a simple, drawn out story, that people can't understand in their native tongue, is not going to appeal to people today where TV and Movies are so entertaining, complex and not as long. Music generally comes in smaller packages too. Opera music isn't catchy for most of the time, and the recitative style for dialogue is taxing on the listener, especially when you can't understand it. After I finished school, I realized the style of Opera, where the voice is pushed to the limits and there are all these high notes sung with so much effort, so frequently, makes almost all of them of no effect, because the listener is over exposed. I fell in love with the style while I was studying it, but it's like an isolated world, where you need to know it to get it. The truth is that Opera is just out dated in ways, and yes some people will always be drawn to it, but it will never be as popular as it once was, unless it becomes unrecognizable. Even Musical theater isn't as popular as it once was, which is arguably more accessable to the modern audience.
Nothing about it is outdated. I as someone who was born in the early 2000s and grew up online, a live performance of an opera is a unique experience that cannot be replicated digitally. A great film of the performance capture some of it, but the things that make opera, ballet, and theatre in general is the live adaptive aspect of it. I heard my first live opera at the MET. It was Rigoletto with Michael Chioldi and Pytr Becžala and despite never liking Pytr much on recordings, live he was incredible to listen too. Just because my generation generally devalues theatre (though musical theatre is doing great work it bringing us back) doesn’t mean it’s outdated. The skills required to act and sing live on stage are different than what is required to act in a Hollywood film or to record an album. “Outdated” suggests inferiority, which I don’t think you believe is true.
We are willing to concede the point that recording technology had some effect. But even Mister Opera admits that there has ALSO been a change in tendencies. We also concede the point that lots of the old recordings really are people singing like "modern singers", but it's disguised. Fair point about the technology, but it's not the whole story. Old recordings make it harder, but not impossible to spot differences. Singers today are taught to push light techniques beyond their limits, and that's what we need to change. One other point we had to concede is that old school singers were just more fit. They maybe weren't doing sports, but look at the legs on Corelli. In general people back then had more physical activity.
Similar reason actually. Voices are autotuned to death, sometimes people can barely carry a tune without autotune. Autotune removes emotion from the voice, and create a robotic and unnaturally smooth sound, once you learn how it sounds, you cannot unhear it. This is very detrimental to good singers as well, because it removes emotion from their vocals. Singing and art is about emotion. A singer is suppose to convey the message of the music. The same predictable 4 chords are used in every single song. they work according to a formula. Instruments are not real, they use computer generated sounds as musical instruments, drums often doesn't sound like real drums. Music has become incredibly simplistic, which is not always a bad thing, but when that is the only thing you are getting it is not good. Instruments can be played with a certain feel, musicians naturally knows when to go a beat faster or slower. When you program everything you are basically just using copy and paste on the same 1 - 4 notes and you repeat them until the song is just over three minutes long. The emotion and the connection has been completely ruined within most modern music. It also makes everything sound very similar. Artists used to have their own unique sound. Check out Rick Beato he has made some good videos explaining these problems.
Yes yes, sometime I think that Jonas Kaufman is not really as good as people think about him, it's not about the techniques, he can diminuendo - the technique that most of the best opera singer can not do, but it's about the sound. Sometime I have a thought that he sound like a mosquito. But I'm sill his fan. Lol. I love opera.
Yes older opera is much better. The new shit is fucking painful to listen to. I mean it's the worst shit you could listen to, that being said it's really just the constant vibrato that's really awful. Imagine Steve Vai putting vibrato(whammy bar) on every goddamn note. There is a reason only opera uses this technique and no one else......
Fleming is one of those singers who sometimes meander freely through the notes. And Stemme has been horrible for more than 10 years now. And Kaufmann? No comment.
Thank you for these wonderful examples. I believe it all started with Callas. She had a bad wobble and people started accepting it as correct. I've even seen posts where they say it's supposed to sound that way! Then when they hear a perfect close vibrating shimmery tone they're say the the vibrato is too fast!!!! Just listen to how steady the sound is on the older singers.
Con Callas empezó y terminó la ópera. Los responsables del declive son los teatros y las discográficas que promueven y hacen cantantes a sus gustos. Gracias
I enjoyed your video, but I didn't understand your point about vibrato. In many recordings that you chose as examples of good old opera singing, there is still a lot of vibrato. Isn't huge vibrato necessary simpy because it allows singers to project over the orchestra, especially when the orchestra plays loudly and when there are no mics?
It’s hard to know what you mean by “huge” vibrato. That’s not a very specific term. The pitch variation of the vibrato should not be too wide, nor should it be excessively slow or fast. 1955 Corelli = too fast (caprino), 1928 Lauri-Volpi the same. 1961-62 Corelli = perfetto!
@@renalazuardi3512 it’s not natural as much as modern teachers and singers may claim. It was always taught in the past in the Italian school. Read tetrazzini, Guelfi, del Monaco, Lo Monaco.
I don't like opera and classical music for a few reasons. One is a personal one. When my parents got drunk, they would blast some classical music or an opera, while get aggressively angry due to the alcohol, taking it out on us. So that's already a really bad connection to have. Classic music or opera always meant unnecessary trouble, fear, uncertainty and fights. Another reason is that the singing just sounds very annoying to me, especially after a while. Also, I have made the experience that people from the classic and opera community, are quite hostile towards other genres and their communities. I have multiple times been considered to be a cultural abomination by classic/opera fans, simply for liking other genres like Hip hop, trance, Techno, and some Pop music. On one hand, those classic and opera fans want others to get inspired by their genre, while treating them like shit for liking different genres. I find that odd.
You couldn't have explained this any better. All the extreme emotion involved is the main reason. I've been going all over YT, explaining this to deadbeat, cultured, alternative, wealthy, spoiled idiots. Country, hip hop, rap, etc. are one thing. This mountain of shit is another.
As a teenager who's listening to classical music I had to face the youngster community's disgust towards me for listening to this particular genre. So, pride is illuminated by both sides. It's indeed a pity that you had to struggle as a child 😢
Thank You for the video. A lot to say.... Before 200 years Manuel Garcia wrote about registers of the voice. Although I have to say that also in old singers I can hear many thinks that disturbs me like a false heroic singing with accents and a more active larynx or higher. Tebaldi also is lower from the pitch in "aspetto". And I don't like Corelli because he was singing without dynamics and with the same vocal boxes (emission) everywhere. The truth is that today's singers don't have an elasticity and clear registers because they don't practice bel canto technique like Marchesi,Vaccai,Panofka,Lütgen,Concone...... They have to react very quickly and to fix a timbro and high notes for the managers. Like a quick pasta for 2 minutes. Me as a singer and after 25 years of carrier I try not to be so categoric with the great singers because I know that the stress is awful.... I watched Your video of course. Please don't put pop singers with classical singers because they have different budget and much lower tessituras.... And many many other thinks.Either to be experts let's be humans first of all. Thank You George
We feel this is a bit confused because these are points Garcia makes in the preface to "Hints on Singing". By Garcia's time, the old way of singing was being replaced with something more "canto e parole". Garcia was lamenting the end of the highly florid age of the castrati, not the end of "clear registers" or "bel canto". He does talk about registers in this book as well, but it's not a big deal at all. He's just dividing up the voice into high, middle, and low. He has specific pitch ranges. Garcia was an important author who was helping to create the new, stronger, but necessarily less flexible approach that audiences thought of as the "Italian" style. The "french" style was lighter and more flexible, but it didn't make audiences go crazy like the Italian style did. We suspect the french style sounded a lot like modern singers trained in universities, and that's probably why audiences thought the Italian style was more exciting. Please don't confuse these issues. The old school isn't a simple idea, and we wish we had never made these videos. We leave them up so people can discuss, but since we started actually reading old school books, we found out we were being lied to. We pressed "the maestro" on this and we concluded he had never actually read any old school books. He was just waving them around to intimidate people.
@@Thisisopera Continue with Your humanitarian work. Forget about Garcia. He was not important. Just the same schooling with Marchesi,Callas, Sutherland,Caruso,Gigli and many others.
You're correct. Thanks for taking the time to discuss it intelligently. It makes the whole thing feel like less of a clown show. Our view now is a bit different from before. If you don't like how someone sings, steal everything good that they do and then do it better than them. If you sit around complaining all day you're not actually doing anything about the problem. The answer to bad singing is good singing. We don't claim to be there yet but that doesn't mean we can't hear the difference.
Aclaro soy partidario de la vieja generación de cantantes. Los cantantes de hoy todos me parecen un desastre. Pero no creo que la decadencia comenzó en los 70. En esta décadas y en los 80 hubo grandiosos cantantes, baste mencionar Caballé, Freni,De los Ángeles, Nilsson, Wunderlich,Gedda, Pavarotti, Krauss Aragall. Te Kanawa, Ghiaurov,Talvella, Lucía Popp, Sutherland, Cappuccilli, Taddei, Bruson, Astrid Varnay, Rysanek, Gwineth Jones, George London, Luchetti, Silvano Carrolli. Kurt Moll, Hans Sotin, Lorengar, Bergonzi, Cossotto, Jon Vickers, Troyanos, Jessey Norman, Horne, El Carreras de los 70 solamente. Domingo era soberbio aunque siempre tuvo dificultades en los agudos,Ramey, Tomowa Sintow, Ruggero Raimondi, James Mc Craken, La Obratszova. Janowitz, Kollo, Manfred Jung, Behrens, Mc Neil, James King, Kathleen. Battle, Wolfgang Brendel, Verret, Bumbry, Paata Burchuladze y muchos más. Decir que la decadencia inició en los 70 me parece exagerado. Para mí la verdadera decadencia inició en los 90.
Horne tenia muy mala técnica, Sutherland empezo con buena técnica pero se convirtió en una parodia de si misma. Kraus cantaba nasal, cosa que fue en aumento a medida que pasaban los años.
@@Ignasimp en qué se basa ud para decir que Horne tenía mala técnica? Cochina técnica tiene la Netrebko. La Horne era excelsa intérprete y tenía una gran técnica. Sutherland parodia de sí misma? Desde luego, en los 80 su voz ya no era la misma, pero incluso en esa época hay dos grabaciones de Lucia de ella. Una en el met y otra en Sidney. Son unos portentos de Lucia. Ninguna soprano hoy día puede hacerlo con ese nivel. Y Kraus sí tenía un sonido excesivamente metálico, brillante y a veces nasal. Eso quita lo excelso cantante que fue? Ojalá hoy tuviéramos un Kraus.
@@juanclorduy9821 Horne es horrible. No se ni como puedes escucharla y decir que no tenia mala técnica. Sutherland fue perdiendo claridad en las vocales y acabó sonando como una anciana sin dientes aun siendo joven. Antes prefiero escuchar a Kraus que a Horne. Lo que salvó a Sutherland para no perder su exito fue que seguia tenendo una voz muy potente y agil al mismo tiempo.
@@Ignasimp Esas son sólo apreciaciones suyas. Es subjetivo. Mencione una mezzo hoy día que pueda cantar con la personalidad de Horne. Quién puede hacer hoy un Arsace como ella? Qué mezzo tiene hoy el fraseo exquisito de ella? Que a ud no le guste no quiere decir que era mala. A mí la Callas y Hans Hotter por ejemplo no me gustan. Pero eso no me da pié a decir que eran malos. Del Monaco no tuvo una gran técnica. Tenía un portento de voz natural. Y Corelli precisamente se esmeró siempre en apartar la tosquedad del canto de Del Monaco
@@Ignasimp Di Stefano a mí por ejemplo no me ha gustado nunca por su sonido en exceso abierto. Pero por eso fue malo? Indudablemente fue uno de los grandes grandes intérpretes. De los innumerables Mon coeur souvre a ta voix que he escuchado por muchísimas cantantes, hay dos que para mí ofrecen las más excelentes interpretaciones de este aria. Primero Jessey Norman que es absolutamente electrizante. Y en segundo lugar la Horne con su exquisito fraseo y lirismo. Ni la Cossotto, o Troyanos o Verret que también la cantaron y que también me fascinan superan a Norman y a Horne en la maestría con la que interpretan este aria. Ambas versiones están aquí en RUclips. Qué importa que a veces suene muy brillante o un tanto nasal? Cantar es mucho más que técnica. La técnica es el medio. El fin es la interpretación. La Scotto por ejemplo, tenía mala técnica. Sus agudos chilladísimos. Pero yo a esa mujer le perdono todo. La garra con la que esa mujer cantaba y expresaba con su soberbia actuación hace que yo me olvide de sus problemas de agudos. Fue menos por sus agudos problemáticos? En ningún modo. Lo mismo me pasa con Domingo. La gente se ensaña con sus agudos tirantes, y porque bajaba de tonalidad muchas arias. La gente no fustiga en cambio a Tito Schipa o a Caruso que también tenían agudos difíciles y casi todo lo bajaban de tonalidad. Sospecho que en este foro consideran tanto a Schipa y Caruso como dioses. Y sí fueron grandes grandes así trasportaran tonalidades. Cantar es más que técnica y agudos. Y de Sutherland sí. En los 80 se le oscureció mucho la voz. Pero repito dígame alguien hoy que cante con el nivel de virtuosismo perfecto de Sutherland... No hay ni media soprano así
I totally agree & when opera singers conduct a masterless class,it's such a waste of time & doesn't really serve any positive purpose. Perpetual bad habits,technique. Callas, Cotrubas, Caballe master classes were stellar. But now it's the blind leading the blind. Diego Florez sub- Lyric voice was very beautiful in the beginning etc. His masterclass was horrible. The advice he gave one poor student was " If they can't hear you it's thier problem" how sad is that. Take care Arnaud Bourbon Amaral
It is true that some operatic vibrratos are too heavy, but all singers like Mariah Carey, Shirley Bassey and, fir example, Tom Jones All have vibratos. The issue is not whether a singer should have a vibrato, but how it should be produced and controlled. I'm afraid that all the author of this video is doing is expressing a personal taste and letting it masquerade as a learnéd opinion.
Opera has definitely changed because today singers preserve voices so they have longer careers and do not give all of their soul into a performance tuss making modern opera BORING.
Renee Fleming is such a disappointment her diction is some times so bad, and sings opera in a jassy way, with weird vocal inflections and guttural sounds!
Jonas Kaufmann is a special case in the opera industry as he first used a wrong technique and damaged his voice badly. eventually he went to train with a baritone and adopted this technique that doesn't damage his voice.
It's so different because the singers of today have no voice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No sound of their own and making noice, everybody can do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
@@familypondman Klopt, deze zangers durven niet met ( ik zeg borststem low larinx, met de benedendeur open) te zingen. Met name mannen moeten hun laagte trainen om de stem vrij maken. Niet met woofy klank maar met een robustere stemgeving! maar men durft dat volgens mij niet te doen.
Anna-Maria deleted her account because she’s trying to be a singer, and side by side comparisons of her own singing with “modern singers” don’t go so well. Generally, we assume if you’re making an anonymous channel trashing modern singers, it’s because you don’t think it would go so well once you sign your name to it. We support 100% any efforts to support opera singers and raise the level. We don’t support making things even worse by following “leaders” who aren’t even able to rescue their own singing. We understand that you don’t have to be world-class to have something to say about singing. But there’s a limit. There’s a level of incompetence that crosses the line. We are here to shine a light on that line.
@@Thisisopera that's interesting. i always thought of her account to be a "better version" of TIO. it seemed much more respectful; the goal was never to trash modern singers but to use and compare them to old ones to see what went wrong with technique. it's a shame, but i wish her well. i'm glad Your channel is still available to preserve this content!
Nothing worse than a dying art form being perverted by people who don’t post themselves doing better than the current singers. Let’s not support artists for doing their best in modern times, let’s bash them and tell them their doing it wrong without any help to point them in the supposed right way! The original this is opera also was a coward channel, and purposely adjusted volumes. Everyone knows the old school was better, they also had 1/10 of the demands of modern singers on and off the stage and performed and traveled far less frequently and were paid more! You think you’re doing good but you’re really just ruining it for everyone with your absurdities. I type this as Juan Diego Florez is singing and you consider his technique poor and him horrible, yet he contributitions to the art form dwarf yours on your RUclips complain channel.
@@viv3147 and then you need to consider *why* it's a dying art form. in the age where singing quality is declining, regardless what genre, would it not be logical to assume that the art form that depends on it the most (and especially of such high quality; no amplifying, the voice must be heard over the large orchestra, very taxing arias...), also suffers the most? you don't have to be a good singer to appreciate good singing. TIO was far from pleasant in different ways, but at least they knew what they were talking about (most of the time) and made videos with the primary objective to educate. if you want to talk about "purposely altering the audio loudness" then you should also be aware that not every video on RUclips is of the same volume. thankfully, every device is now equipped with a tool we can use to manually change the volume to our own liking. and regardless of the volume, you should be able to pick up on the vocal quality of the singer (unless the audio is terrible) and recognize the qualities old singers have that modern singers don't. if volume is that important to you, then try to pick up on the context to get an idea of what it would realistically sound like; luckily, when it comes to the voice, there are plenty of indicators that tell us how loud a singer is singing regardless of the volume we're listening at. Juan Diego Florez, Diana Damrau, Cecilia Bartoli, all have done many things to promote opera and interest people. but that doesn't free them from criticism directed at their singing, because no matter what you do, people simply won't be interested if the singing is bad
Most people don't like opera because it's too hard. Listening to a 2-4 hour performance is already hard, but if you don't understand what anyone is saying (because it's in a completely different language) it makes opera unbearable for most modern listeners. Taking into account that we are also part of a "less pompous era," there is absolutely no reason for people to sit through a Mozart opera where the words are looped 30 times in each scene. The average listener doesn't know what is good and bad, the average listener does what they need to do. If back then it was considered intellectual to listen to opera (and that status mattered), people would do it. Right now, nobody cares if you come off as intelligent or not. We live in a completely different time. There is no reason for people to listen to opera. Old people watch opera, yet they don't understand and can not explain what they are watching. So why are they watching? Cause they've got nothing to do, and they want to come off a certain way. The music is also more primitive and easier to understand (in Mozart/classical operas), while being outlined and curved in a very repetitive but simple manner. This obviously allows for an easier digestion of the music for older people, for whom time flies faster than for young people who could be working, studying, doing anything at all. So how about the few nowadays and preceeding that genuinely enjoy opera? They still exist. They still go to opera. As I came from a family of musicians, I have been going to operas since a very young age, and I love many of the performances I listen to (I didn't encounter most of the issues you've stated, maybe some of the incorrect darkening and some singers would over vibrato, but most of the time there were better singers who would counteract it). There's a lot of issues with this video honestly. I'm not trying to instigate anything, but some of the recordings you showed for both sides sound pretty awful. You're also using examples of very controversial singers in general, like Maria Callas. People during her time complained about her lifts (I'm only talking about the lifts), so using her as an example of what people "used to like" and "used to consider good" is honestly very holey. Don't get me wrong, I love Callas, and she was a true master of language/acting. I do hope you understand what I'm saying though. Referring to the "incorrect darkening," some people create chambers differently. Yes, you didn't provide examples of what we consider great singers, but they were still alright (the first one). It's crazy to hear this I know, but the reason opera started to die out in the 70's is because there was a huge shift in culture (in what was meta, popular, etc.). It takes one second to see what people were listening to back then to understand what I'm saying. I somewhat agree with the acting, but not everyone is bad at acting like this. There are many amazing singers who still sing and act with the voice. You provide bad examples. There are many great singers right now, and many great singers will come up. Opera will definitely make a comeback. It will be hard for a lot of people here to understand anything I said, but I'm not writing this for you. I am leaving this for the future generations, so that when they look back (if they happen to) at these posts, they will find someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
For me Patti Labelle is the greatest vocalist. Mariah Carey is really great too but she is very successful in musicality and songwriting. She is also has one of the best melismas that is why.
Mariah was a good singer, but she likes to let go of the chest voice on every phrase and leaks air. It’s ruined her voice. When she first started, the voice was pretty strong, but her attempts to make that whispery, cutesy sound to end each phrase instead of just using it occasionally has pull the train off the track.
Oh? I have been to several operas and been told by others who attended that they were quite good while I remained anything but hooked. They heard amazing vocal performances, apparently. All I heard was something that kept reminding me of the gobbling of a turkey.
@@mattalley4330 LOL, gobbling is a new one for me. Again, proves our point that there's worse than modern country music, rap, hip hop, etc. What about the content/subject matter? Actually take the time to read about this shit, and see that opera involves very unpleasant stuff.
This is not something representative of opera. You have chosen some singers that are indeed "faking" their voice. BUT because you wanted to compare opera singing with pop singing in the beginning of the video, you should also mention the fact that pop singers nowadays (with the exception of some) are nowhere near as good as opera singers. Has any of them ever sang for three hours in a row, with no microphone, in alanguage the can't speak, combine that with the proper acting? NO. So don't start comparing falsely because believe me if we count how many pop singers literally don't have a voice but are helped through microphones, the number will be huge. So don't discourage people from listening to opera, because even nowadays it's very stereotypical to say that there are no good singers, because I know dozens of them. What about Dessay, or Damrau in her youth, or Garanca, or Sabine Deviehle or petter mattei??
Nowdays we have great singers, the only thing we don't have is a great amount of golden class singers (Like 70's and before). I have the belief that if this modern singers have better teachers they would be better singers (except the examples that you mentioned), the potential always exist.
Whole heartedly agree with you. Most modern singers use autotune all the time. It's refreshing when you have someone like Adele who doesn't, but then she has a proper voice. While there's a lot of truth in what's being said about opera singers today, keep on discouraging and opera will be a thing of the past. The singers you mention are all wonderful, and there are others I can think of.
I disagree! Now in my 80's I have been a lifelong opera fan. Almost gave Opera up because of singers like Maria Callas and that god awful vibrato of hers, and others who over exaggerate their voices and acting! Perhaps that was fine back before sound equipment and video but now we can become up close and personal with the music and drama! The reason Opera has fallen out of favor is due to the fact it doesn't lend itself to a drug high!
This creator doest do enough exploring of "modern" opera. They're using terrible examples like Anna Netrebko. She wobbles so much her high note was beyond flat in this video. I honestly don't know who that tenor is, but he really isn't that bad. Some great examples we should look to for great modern opera are Simon Keenlyside, Bryn Terfel, Dimiri Hvorostovsky, Diana Damrau, Lucas Meachem, Rachel Willis-Sorenson, Cecilia Bartoli, people like that.
Opera is disliked because it's opera. Except for a few arias or whatever, people don't like opera because there's something inherently unpleasant with it: the fact that you cannot use a mic, which then forces you to use vibrato all the time. I see opera singers keep saying how that's what human voice naturally spunds like when the larynx is relaxed. Well then I guess the natural state of the human larynx is not that relaxed which is exactly what is not natural. Music outside theater is free. Doesn't have restrictions set in stone. People can do all kinds of things with their voices to convey an emotion and the cost is having to use a mic which then changes how things sound live and recorded but that's a small price compared to getting assaulted in the ears by the vibrato and high pitches from an opera. It's great to listen to opera trained singers in other genres but at the end of the day, opera is something very specific, and rather gratifies specific needs and those needs that it satisfies are not really those that music in general satisfies.
La técnica se va perdiendo, en gran parte por la amplificación rn los teatros que descuidan la acústica. Pero un cantante lirico wue no se le oiga en teatro es matar el lírico. Para eso ya tenemos el musical.
16:22-16:23 Mario Del Monaca is here showing a vocal break, we can clearly hear his passagio. Thus this is bad opera since one of the first goal is to hide the passagio between full chest and "mixed chest"
I don’t hear any break either. And you’re confusing art form with technique. In any case, let’s say that Del Monaco did break. All of these singers had marvelous techniques, but as to be expected, they also made mistakes. You can’t consider this “bad” opera because he broke a note, or didn’t hide his passagio. The most important aspect in opera, or any art for that matter, is to communicate, to express emotions, to make people feel what you’re singing, regardless whether or not they understand every single word you sing. So, this isn’t bad opera. Bad opera is what we hear today, which, for the most part, not only is it bad technique, but also little to no emotion.
It's not a crack, he just wrongly calculated how much he needed pression and air for this group of notes, causing a little squeeze on his throat and his vocal chords. If you call that a crack, you need to stop listening a lot of modern opera singers, because they sounds the same but x10 and almost all the time in almost all registers. The infamous throat sound.
Rodvanovsky sounds pretty impressive in the theater, but on recordings is pretty unbearable. Hers is the loudest and softest voice I’ve heard, yet I’ve been attending opera live for only 20 years. It would’ve been nice to have heard Corelli, MDM, Callas, and Tebaldi live. Let alone pre war singers.
Radvanovsky is very over rated. Especially when it comes to the several Bel Canto roles she's become known for (i.e. the Donizetti Tudor Trilogy, Norma, etc). She has neither the smooth and connected vocal line required by Bel Canto, or the vocal agility. She's great in Verdi and verismo repertoire, but never really learned Bel Canto singing! I'm nervous over how she will handle Medea!! I have serious doubts about this choice! Lisa Davidsen would be a much better choice!
@@artdanks4846 how can one be great in Verdi but not apply bel canto principles and traditions? Most of Verdi’s works were composed alongside Bellini and Donizetti. I think most singers today are overrated. Soia Hernandez is the best I’ve heard in the heavier bel canto and verismo reps alike. Sondra has a very week voice in the lower register where I think she should be employing chest, but she seems to fear it.
@@singermanz I meant primarily some of his later operas, which were written after Donizettis death, as his style moved more away from the Bel Canto. Such as Amelia (Un Ballo), Elisabetta (Don Carlo), and Aida. (I haven't seen whether or not Radvanovsky has performed Desdemona yet, but I imagine it would be quite good.) I agree with you re: earlier Verdi. I was VERY disappointed with her Lady Macbeth, for all the reasons you mentioned about her voice, (i.e. weak low register) and because Bel Canto singing is really not her Forte, even though she's been heralded lately as a Bel Canto singer. To me she falls too short of this, and just can't be compared to those who truly mastered that art (i.e. Callas, Sutherland, Caballe, and even Sills). However, I saw her in Tosca, and was quite impressed.
Bruh a lot of the "good " stuff sucked too. This art form is corny and dried up . Go listen to Tosin Abasi. Tigran Hamasyan. That's what's fresh and tasty while still scaling to the standards of high art
nah, people don't like opera cuz it's not relateable, no matter who's the opera singer or what technique, opera is such a hassle to watch/prepare too, you need large hall with good accoustic, orchestra, years of training etc. Now compare that to pop/easy listening/ jazz singing even (not the music, but the singing technique)
Nothing worse than a dying art form being perverted by people who don’t post themselves doing better than the current singers. Let’s not support artists for doing their best in modern times, let’s bash them and tell them their doing it wrong without any help to point them in the supposed right way! The original this is opera also was a coward channel, and purposely adjusted volumes. Everyone knows the old school was better, they also had 1/10 of the demands of modern singers on and off the stage and performed and traveled far less frequently and were paid more for that time then singers are in this time except for less than i don’t know, five opera singers on planet earth. You think you’re doing good but you’re really just ruining it for everyone with your absurdities. I type this as Juan Diego Florez is singing and you consider his technique poor and him horrible, yet he contributitions to the art form dwarf yours on your RUclips complain channel. Opera is dying because people prefer other music and culture has changed. Pretty sure they had very little else in this the time of old school singing. I think people would’ve still preferred rock and roll on a large scale.
If Opera keeps the golden age until nowdays, would be still less popular than actual music, but would be 100x better. The demand of modern opera singers don't help, anyway.
There's a little truth in this, but - nah. What sounds 'unnatural' and 'weird' is what you're used to - it *is* a cultural thing. For example, I find most modern pop, including the 2nd example here, very unnatural and weird! I also liked all of the 'bad' opera examples. Opera is just art in a little known language (Italian) and a little known (archaic) style. It parted ways with popular music more than a century ago - it could have kept evolving, remaining in harmony with popular tastes, and then it would have gradually turned more or less into today's musicals and rock operas. No biggie.
That's not how it works. There is a factually right way do do it, and a factually wrong way to do it. Most modern singers simply can't sing properly. And it's not only torture for their listeners, but also to their own voice. Incorrect singing techniques damage the voice.
My whole introduction to opera was hearing Pavarotti and his spot-on pitch and also Kathleen Battle and yet I'd hear Carreras going sharp and think what the heck is going on? Is that the way it's supposed to sound? And knowing it was out of tune (later performances with the joke called Sarah Brightman).
My Suggestion & My Advice for the all of the opera singers in the all of the world : Don't sing like a countertenor, bass-baritone, baritenor, soprano, mezzo-soprano, contralto, alto, tenor, baritone, and a bass. ! Don't sing like that !
Like the age of 23 years old, 22 years old, 21 years old, 20 years old, 19 years old, 18 years old, 17 years old, 16 years old, 15 years old, 14 years old, 13 years old, 12 years old, 11 years old, 10 years old, 9 years old, 8 years old, 7 years old, 6 years old, 5 years old, 4 years old, 3 years old, 2 years old, 1 years old, etc.
And then to the like a freaking cool, fucking cool, freakin' cool, freakin cool, fuckin' cool, fuckin cool, freaky cool, fucky cool, golden child, golden boy, golden girl, golden kid, wonderkids, wonderkid, children, childish, childs, child, kids, and a kid.
The vibrato is really what kills opera for me. Such beautiful melodies only to be ruined by constant heavy vibrato. Listening to an hour of soprano voices wobbling away is very grating!
All opera is, is a bunch of bullshit, done to your voice. You waste all these years of time and money, to sound like you are having a meltdown, or a bad day. It's not music to me. I hate musicians that like to make their instruments sound like that, with old electronics and effects.
It's not heavy vibrato, it's the wrong kind. Either too fast or slow, wide, or inverted waves
@@pedrohasallthepower There's just too much of it these days. What used to be a mere ornament basically became the entire foundation of modern operatic singing. Most singers do vibrato CONSTANTLY, it's straight up impossible to make out any melodies of whatever they are wobbling about...
Vibrato, as the term is understood today, is NOT an ornament.@@lucia-di-lammermoor
Wobble is NOT the same thing as vibrato. VIbrato is necessary in any opera after really early rep. Wobble is what happens when the voice gets older or the singer has poor technique.
Well, I understand that the same thing is happening to opera as to many other artistic disciplines, it is degenerating from the inside, turning it into something completely different. As is now the case with art in museums, made up of bananas taped to the wall, they need a context to support their narrative, they need an intellectual behind to say that it is art, like modern opera, it takes intellectuals who say that this is also opera, even if it does not respect the essence of what opera really is. So, in conclusion, everything over time degenerates or is transformed, and many times the essence of what was, is lost. Sound rude, but, i think that's basically what is hapenning in this times with everything.
Yes, but i feel that we can do something
It also takes someone bold enough to call a shit for what it is, despite the intellectual sophistry trying to support it.
The banana is good, you just have bad taste.
That and mediocrity rules the day.
Modern art/opera in one sentence: “A banana taped to the wall.” Brava!
To tell you how far opera has fallen in popularity, my Dad was born on a farm in Lawton, Oklahoma in 1946. He knew who Rosa Ponselle was, because they played her on the radio. And when I was born and started singing in the pick up truck with him, he’d have on Rosa as we drove around, and I’d sing with her. People don’t like opera anymore, and it’s because the sound doesn’t grab you. No amount of sound mixing can fix the lack of chest voice mixed throughout the voice. It sounds like they’re all swallowing potatoes when they sing these days, and when you go to master classes, they actually want that sound. They’ll try to take you off track by telling you you’re using too much chest, but they don’t understand that it’s a coordination to be practiced just like hitting a backhand. You don’t do it perfectly at first.
The difference between the old and new singers is night and day. Tebaldi's sound is forward, uses a strong head voice instead of a weak head voice, and has no manipulation through force. Sonya has amazing acting; but, must work on her technique. Unfortunately, you have many skilled actors in opera who have bad technique. But, the thing that they are missing is making the emotions loud through their voice and not just showing everything with their bodies. I think we should all make a petition to get these singers trained old school and then have them make opera movies for the 20s-30s crowd.
For me this skilled actors in modern opera days don't deliver any emotion, because in Opera you must deliver blend of acting and singing (to make the impact on the crowd), this a true reason that this art is so hard.
In a nutshell, Opera in nowdays has a lot of problems
There’s still hope though! There are hidden gems in the young generation. There’s a young Bulgarian soprano called Krista Petkova. She doesn’t have a lot of recordings online, nor her technique is perfect, but she’s different than most. I really hope she’s educated on old school opera, not merely talent that lead her up to this point..
I do love the singers of the 50's however...
Как Верно!
Singers of the past weren’t afraid to use their chest voice! I feel like that’s being taught out of modern singers, and chest voices are becoming weaker as a result (and thus, so is the head voice bc when you have a weak bottom foundation, you can’t expect a strong upper range on top of it). The acting point is so true too!
Thank you very much!!!! I agree with every word in this video!!! At last, someone tell thr truth!!!👏👏👏
Me too!!!
So true...
The gaslights were burning so hard on this video that the tenor's hair caught fire!
All of the above and I think what also adds to the deterioration of great operatic singing and opera as a result is the prevalence of cronyism. Before it was very simple - can you SING so that your voice resonates above the orchestra and excites the audiences. Now is who you know in the industry to give you a role, voice had become a secondary or even tertiary consideration!
Hello I'm French and I'm very glad to see your video again. You missed me a lot!!
Your work has opened my eyes on "Le beau chant or Bel Canto".
I understand know why I dislike the modern singers. Abs why I definitely prefer the ancien style of singing.
Thanks for your work!
I used to like arias only. Once I attended a few operas, I began to appreciate the genre. Now, I attend every opera I can. Once you have seen opera live, you can appreciate the records. Without experiencing live opera, you won't like opera. It's the same with ballet. Live performances add a brand new dimension to your experience and appreciation.
Same with metal concerts.
@Corey H it’s true to an extent. A decent live performance will trump a great recording in my mind almost every time. A much more visceral experience. And this is a guy who can only afford student tickets.
But opera singers suck today...@@boundary2580
Learning opera through academia has been incredibly destructive to the art form.
Yes! The Late Great Jerry Hadley echoed the same sentiment. He said that because it has been bastardized and moved from the concert stage inside the college voice studio that singers are learning it completely divorced from its original home.
How did singers used to be trained back then?
@@miguelpereira9859 Most of the old great singers had private voice teachers who were usually famous singers who retired and became voice teachers for the younger generations. But in Europe students do not learn to be music performers (either vocal or instrumental) in Universities but in specialised Music Condtevatoires. They generally learn to play a musical instrument from childhood with a private teacher, or going in their spare time for music lessons to a music conservatoire which takes child pupils until they are about 16-18. At that age they go as full time students to a music conservatoire for about 3-4 years and at the same time take part in performances at the Conservatoire to familiarise them with how their careers will develop. The atmosphere in these Conservatoires is very different from a university because they are specialist institutions. In addition there are numerous specialist Voice Academies some of them started by retired famous singers eg The voice academy in Italy owned by Mirella Freni and several others. There is also the Rossini Academy in Pesaro specially for teaching how to sing Rossini’s music. And many others.
I had a chance to study at the Opera Academy in São Paulo, having a fair amount of activities physically in the theatre and the course was very practical and focused on rehearsing, preparing the part, improving our acting and performing with orchestra. It was totally different from university kind of learning, I believe we need more initiatives like this 💕
This pretty much sums up my gut feeling when watching modern 'master classes' where the Pros over-explain, over-intellectualize, project too much meaning into the singing instead of just singing.
many of them just audition wise-sounding phrases and over time learn to repeat the ones that get the most applause
@@Thisisopera It's so tragic. Makes sense why those old records sound so clear and crisp (in the diction) compared to modern albums
They don't make them like they used to, we can all agree on that!
Contemporary singers are anti vocal, anti aesthetic, caricatures, but artistic directors, stage directors, conductors, are all same . Thanks to older and eternal generation of opera, that we know what opera is. Mario del Monaco, Franco corelli, Miguel fleta, Merli, Gigli , Caruso, Tebaldi, so many others ☀️👏❤
After watching this video, I see why I love the old opera singers. Thank you for this video.
My only regret is that I can't put more than one like to this perfect video. I totally agree, also with the choice of the tenors, just the best like Corelli, Di Stefano and the glorious Mario Del Monaco.
So many times I asked to myself why modern Opera singers are so bad, and of course if I was the only one to see the terrific condition of Opera or not.
Thank you very much
Your not alone in your observation in the fall of the Greatest art form in the world. I've been following Saioa Hernandez for sometime now & she's has a great technical sounding voice . Our Montserrat 🙏🙏💙💙 said it all " that the opera houses were sleeping because Saioa Hernandez should be signing in all of them. And to me she is the voice of the century " let's face it artistically speaking the met is not Mecca. It's a Large beariful opera house filled with voiceless ghost , destroying OPERA. sincerely, Arnold Bourbon Amaral
You have selected Excellent examples to prove your point! Well done!
I'm going to start calling things "woofy, weak, falsettish"
You make a good point about 1970 as a watershed date. The last of the greats - Corelli, Tebaldi, Nilsson, Sutherland - had their prime in the 50’s and 60’s. By ‘70 they were in decline, and no one followed.
What nonsense! What about Domingo, Pavarotti, Bergonzi, 2X Price, Freni, Carreras and many others!
@@xavieralberto1176 They sound worse.
@@xavieralberto1176 exactly from your list, 70s opera is a mixed bag
My simplified explanation of why grand opera is in decline: These people today just can’t sing, and suffer by comparison to those who could.
I have watched most of the "This is opera" videos and subscribed, they are so on point.. who authored them? Is it a teacher/Conductor? I would so love to know..
Teacher or Conductor or Singer you certainly are a Maestro of this art form, I have learnt so much!
Mariah Carey is a national treasure. What would happen if she started singing opera? I would love to hear that.
Yo no puedo contestar esa pregunta pero para demostrar que se puede cantar ópera hay que salir en un teatro, sin amplificacion, pasando una orquesta y cantando una partitura que alguien compuso y no canciones arregladas para la tesitura vocal del cantante. Es muy diferente.
Thank you for these videos. I could never quite put my finger on why the newer singers always sounded either squeaky or strangled to me. You do a good job explaining exactly why.
I love the channel Opera: a luxury every old school opera lover should watch the video.
The elitist pretentiousness and the declining skill and talent of the singers are just *consequences* of opera's no longer being popular, not its causes: fewer people sing it and listen to it, hence the smaller pool of talent and less 'manpower' devoted to maintaining and developing its excellence; and since it no longer corresponds to popular taste, the people who do still listen to it are often motivated precisely by an attraction to its elitist reputation, hence the snobbish antics and, sometimes, even some negligence of aesthetics and real quality.
Totalmente de acuerdo contigo,. Añado lo siguiente. Hoy en día se hacen producciones operísticas que faltan el respeto al compositor. Por eso, yo personalmente agradezco a todos los que suben los performances de antaño, yo los disfruto mucho. Pues, corresponde al tiempo en que había belleza en el canto: el recitativo, la declamación,…la fidelidad a la partitura, entre otras cosas. Me encanta que en 22:39 hayas puesto las palabras de la maravillosa Tebaldi (la voce d’angelo). Es cierto, lo que ella dice, la mayoría de los cantantes de hoy en día tienen voces muy pequeñas y no son recursivos en el uso de estas. Esto lo he vivido. Yo vi y escuché en vivo a Eva Marton, era impresionante su voz. He regresado al teatro y las voces de las sopranos y mezzos apenas se oyen. A lo mejor es como dicen hay otro concepto de ópera, otra reconceptualizacion en detrimento de este bello arte. Parece que hay un afán por producir performance al gusto del pensamiento de hoy y así atraer gente nueva. De esta manera lo que han hecho es ponerle otro traje a la ópera, para que guste y sea atractiva. Sacrificando así el drama , la palabra, la partitura. Una cosa gravísima en estos tiempos. Aun así, no hay que olvidar que el arte es y seguirá siendo esperanzador. Saludos cordiales.
La prima donna You are right about the difference between the great singers of the 50s and 60s and the singers of today. I am old enough to have seen these giants of the opera live in the opera houses of Europe and thank God for being alive to witness these miraculous performances. Sadly the decline is very great and very unfortunate for the younger opera lovers of todays. Singers like Corelli, del Monaco, di Stefano, Bastianini, Callas, Sutherland, Tebaldi, Simionato and many others are no longer and as things are at present singers like them will never appear again. In my opinion the two biggest things that have happened since then to bring this decline are 1. Singers are taught to sing primarily to preserve their voices so they can go on singing until their 60s or even 70s. A few of them have the vocal cords and technique that can allow them to do that, but they are very rare. However, the quality of the singing is inferior as a result. But the modern techniques taught at present are all about a long career and not about quality of sound. The second reason for the decline is that the productions of the last 40 years or more have become a “director’s” show to show how he can re-create the original work with the aim of making it “modern” and “relevant” under the impression that this will entice more people to go to the opera. Most of the time the actual opera audiences dislike what they see (and sometimes boo) even if they like what they are listening to. For me the main reason that younger generations cannot relate to Opera is because the vast majority of them do not hear any classical music while growing up, they are not taught about it at school nor taken to any performances as children so in
general the sound of classical music, and opera in particular is very alien and unfamiliar to their ears. They grow up thinking that music =pop music. So unless these two issues are addressed at their point of origin Opera will slowly wither and die.
Qué bonito comentario, ilustre. Saludos desde Venezuela donde la copla vive en las pampas entre morichales y canales.
thanks for this video..the worst for me was always the fat wide vibrato and too much throat in the sound opening too wide but the direct and nasal resonance in maria callas' voice and expressive dramatic truth led me to love opera and as a result I created my own mixed sound that is natural and unique to who I am.
Istrning to opera while studying is nice but it is not my cup of tea on a daily basis.
All modern singers are of moderate capability what’s totally missing is interpretation which was the center of the art of Tebaldi, Corelli and Callas
yes! rubato is basically a dead art
Earlier every man wanted to sound like CARUSO. LOVE IT! 😊
The thumb nail of Yusif Eyvazov is symbolic and not lost on me.
As someone who just came here to know why people enjoy opera, I can hear the clear differences between the old and new singer. I have never ever been a fan of opera. I thought it’s annoying. I still do but the old opera sounds a lot more pleasant than the new ones. Without being too technical, I think it sounds a lot more polished and controlled. I still don’t get why people enjoy opera but I guess everyone will have their own entertainment. Btw, this is not an insult or anything. I’m just someone who’s genuinely curious about opera.
Eyvazov it's the sign of the dead of opera.
So is his wife.
My intro into opera were recordings of Bjorling and De Los Angeles followed by a large dose of Sutherland. I had the pleasure of seeing Te Kanawa live in Melbourne, but that was only a recital and not a full opera. Nevertheless, to my tiny suburban mind, I thought she was amazing. Later in life I worked at the Victorian Arts Centre, and I had the privilege of enjoying many vocal performances of both classical and modern repertoires including many opera productions of the Australian Opera. I was initially very disappointed by the singing for all the reasons you have highlighted in this video, but I take my hat off to all the performers who had the guts to get up and sing in the full knowledge that the audience was probably critical of everything they did. I saw everything from the Sun Aria competition for new and emerging artists to full seasons of Alcina Carmen Butterfly Magic Flute ( I was an usher, so I saw every performance in a season) i came away from this time in absolute awe of the entirity of the opera experience and found I enjoyed the live, if flawed, performance exhilarating and sometimes overwhelming. I hope that people will continue to listen to and enjoy opera and the glory of the human voice and maybe one day we will be lucky enough to see again anotjer Callas or Sutherland and the artform will be revived for another generation. (I will say thuough, if you are performing Carmen and the horse gets more applause than the human cast members you really need to pick up your game 😂)
Nobody is saying Opera doesn't take skill. But just because something takes skill doesn't make it GOOD. If I sculpted a scale model of the Mona Lisa out of my own feces, that would take a lot of skill. It would also not be good. Using your voice to skillfully make unpleasant noises is not good.
Ifd you like Opera, you are ALLOWED to like Opera. Not a single person on the face of this Earth will force you to stop liking Opera. But, conversely, You need to accept and aknowledge that you like a thing that most people DON'T like, and recognise that there are legitemate reasons WHY they don't like it.
You are allowed to E I E I O all you want. But most people aren't going to like that, and you should get of your high horse and stop guilting them for it.
We've learned a lot since we made this.
3:10 how could they be so bad? This is the worse opera I ever heard in my life.
Thats just horrible
It is HORRIBLE!
Me too...She is overrated.
Can you tell me which aria is it 11:31?
E lucevan le stelle
@@reraltizgivii9318 Thank you 😊
Im courious to know your opinion on singing of soprano Dominika Zamara. Have you ever heard of her?
Who cares?
My teacher don't sound like modern singers .. She was singing on independent opera for the last years.
As awful as Mr and Mrs Netrebko are Renne's foray into verismo is beyond horrible. Of course she never sang a Puccini opera (to the best of my knowledge) for which we should all be grateful. Whoever was singing Vesti (Cura???) is pretty bad but at least his career was very brief. I'm sorry I checked out after those three.
La culpa la tiene el stablishment de la opera, te cierran las puertas si usas el canto antiguo, y el que quiere vivír de esto no le queda otra, lo dijo el mismo kraus.
Can you please criticize the video of a country singer (Caroline Jones) who attempts to teach Bel Canto while singing terribly? I'd love to hear your take on it 😆
8:05 what's the title?
“Vittoria”, from Tosca. From Second Act.
Opera was much more of a popular force in the past which also produced a lot more aficionado's and critics. On top of that, sheet music was disseminated to the middle class so they could perform numbers in their own homes with friends and family, adding to the demands of hearing a perfect performance on stage. Performers were routinely roasted in the press and in personal correspondences by the public for poor technique of all sorts. There's nothing new about any of this.
I think to the unfamiliar and general audience, they sound almost exactly the same and would have the same appeal honestly. The technology of the old recordings made things sound lighter in timbre and I think you may be attributing too much of that to technique.
I agree that Opera today focuses a lot on Big, Round, Loud voices and not a beautiful, unique ones. But the reason Opera isn't as popular is because it is out dated in terms of what people are looking for in entertainment.
3-4 hours of a simple, drawn out story, that people can't understand in their native tongue, is not going to appeal to people today where TV and Movies are so entertaining, complex and not as long.
Music generally comes in smaller packages too. Opera music isn't catchy for most of the time, and the recitative style for dialogue is taxing on the listener, especially when you can't understand it.
After I finished school, I realized the style of Opera, where the voice is pushed to the limits and there are all these high notes sung with so much effort, so frequently, makes almost all of them of no effect, because the listener is over exposed.
I fell in love with the style while I was studying it, but it's like an isolated world, where you need to know it to get it. The truth is that Opera is just out dated in ways, and yes some people will always be drawn to it, but it will never be as popular as it once was, unless it becomes unrecognizable. Even Musical theater isn't as popular as it once was, which is arguably more accessable to the modern audience.
Nothing about it is outdated. I as someone who was born in the early 2000s and grew up online, a live performance of an opera is a unique experience that cannot be replicated digitally. A great film of the performance capture some of it, but the things that make opera, ballet, and theatre in general is the live adaptive aspect of it. I heard my first live opera at the MET. It was Rigoletto with Michael Chioldi and Pytr Becžala and despite never liking Pytr much on recordings, live he was incredible to listen too. Just because my generation generally devalues theatre (though musical theatre is doing great work it bringing us back) doesn’t mean it’s outdated. The skills required to act and sing live on stage are different than what is required to act in a Hollywood film or to record an album. “Outdated” suggests inferiority, which I don’t think you believe is true.
We are willing to concede the point that recording technology had some effect. But even Mister Opera admits that there has ALSO been a change in tendencies. We also concede the point that lots of the old recordings really are people singing like "modern singers", but it's disguised.
Fair point about the technology, but it's not the whole story. Old recordings make it harder, but not impossible to spot differences. Singers today are taught to push light techniques beyond their limits, and that's what we need to change.
One other point we had to concede is that old school singers were just more fit. They maybe weren't doing sports, but look at the legs on Corelli. In general people back then had more physical activity.
Gee, so what explains my love of music and hatred of the clap being played on my radio?
Similar reason actually. Voices are autotuned to death, sometimes people can barely carry a tune without autotune. Autotune removes emotion from the voice, and create a robotic and unnaturally smooth sound, once you learn how it sounds, you cannot unhear it. This is very detrimental to good singers as well, because it removes emotion from their vocals. Singing and art is about emotion. A singer is suppose to convey the message of the music. The same predictable 4 chords are used in every single song. they work according to a formula. Instruments are not real, they use computer generated sounds as musical instruments, drums often doesn't sound like real drums. Music has become incredibly simplistic, which is not always a bad thing, but when that is the only thing you are getting it is not good. Instruments can be played with a certain feel, musicians naturally knows when to go a beat faster or slower. When you program everything you are basically just using copy and paste on the same 1 - 4 notes and you repeat them until the song is just over three minutes long. The emotion and the connection has been completely ruined within most modern music. It also makes everything sound very similar. Artists used to have their own unique sound. Check out Rick Beato he has made some good videos explaining these problems.
Yes yes, sometime I think that Jonas Kaufman is not really as good as people think about him, it's not about the techniques, he can diminuendo - the technique that most of the best opera singer can not do, but it's about the sound. Sometime I have a thought that he sound like a mosquito. But I'm sill his fan. Lol. I love opera.
Kauffman Sounds Like Mosquito And Mikhail Urusov Sounds Like A LION 👊🏻🇧🇷❤️🇷🇺🎻
Yes older opera is much better. The new shit is fucking painful to listen to. I mean it's the worst shit you could listen to, that being said it's really just the constant vibrato that's really awful. Imagine Steve Vai putting vibrato(whammy bar) on every goddamn note. There is a reason only opera uses this technique and no one else......
Fleming is one of those singers who sometimes meander freely through the notes. And Stemme has been horrible for more than 10 years now. And Kaufmann? No comment.
Yes. Stemme and Kaufmann are horribles.
Thank you for these wonderful examples. I believe it all started with Callas. She had a bad wobble and people started accepting it as correct. I've even seen posts where they say it's supposed to sound that way! Then when they hear a perfect close vibrating shimmery tone they're say the the vibrato is too fast!!!! Just listen to how steady the sound is on the older singers.
Con Callas empezó y terminó la ópera. Los responsables del declive son los teatros y las discográficas que promueven y hacen cantantes a sus gustos. Gracias
I enjoyed your video, but I didn't understand your point about vibrato. In many recordings that you chose as examples of good old opera singing, there is still a lot of vibrato. Isn't huge vibrato necessary simpy because it allows singers to project over the orchestra, especially when the orchestra plays loudly and when there are no mics?
vibrato is natural oscillation of the vocal chord tho, so singing without vibrato is actually more straining to the body
It’s hard to know what you mean by “huge” vibrato. That’s not a very specific term. The pitch variation of the vibrato should not be too wide, nor should it be excessively slow or fast. 1955 Corelli = too fast (caprino), 1928 Lauri-Volpi the same. 1961-62 Corelli = perfetto!
@@renalazuardi3512 it’s not natural as much as modern teachers and singers may claim. It was always taught in the past in the Italian school. Read tetrazzini, Guelfi, del Monaco, Lo Monaco.
@@singermanz idk, but a lot of people have them naturally, but some don't, idk what the cause etc
@@renalazuardi3512 a lot of people *claim*
Именно поэтому я слушаю "старичков" Лаури Вольпи, Корелли, МДМ, Марио Ланца, Гяуров, Сьепи и других
WHAT U THINK ABOUT PAVVAROTI ..?? ?? TO ME HE SOUND VERY NAUTURAL WITH GOOD TECHNIQUE
Too nasal.
Shouty voice, but better than modern singers.
Pavarotti sang effortlessly. He was marvelous.
The Only Thing That Worth It On Opera It's Actually A Handsome Person Called "MIKHAIL URUSOV"
I don't like opera and classical music for a few reasons. One is a personal one. When my parents got drunk, they would blast some classical music or an opera, while get aggressively angry due to the alcohol, taking it out on us. So that's already a really bad connection to have. Classic music or opera always meant unnecessary trouble, fear, uncertainty and fights.
Another reason is that the singing just sounds very annoying to me, especially after a while.
Also, I have made the experience that people from the classic and opera community, are quite hostile towards other genres and their communities. I have multiple times been considered to be a cultural abomination by classic/opera fans, simply for liking other genres like Hip hop, trance, Techno, and some Pop music. On one hand, those classic and opera fans want others to get inspired by their genre, while treating them like shit for liking different genres. I find that odd.
You couldn't have explained this any better. All the extreme emotion involved is the main reason. I've been going all over YT, explaining this to deadbeat, cultured, alternative, wealthy, spoiled idiots. Country, hip hop, rap, etc. are one thing. This mountain of shit is another.
As a teenager who's listening to classical music I had to face the youngster community's disgust towards me for listening to this particular genre. So, pride is illuminated by both sides. It's indeed a pity that you had to struggle as a child 😢
I am not a snob in any way, but I don't like other kinds of music than classical. I get very annoyed when such music is listened to by others.
Castafiore was created in 1939.
Thank You for the video.
A lot to say....
Before 200 years Manuel Garcia wrote about registers of the voice.
Although I have to say that also in old singers I can hear many thinks that disturbs me like a false heroic singing with accents and a more active larynx or higher.
Tebaldi also is lower from the pitch in "aspetto".
And I don't like Corelli because he was singing without dynamics and with the same vocal boxes (emission) everywhere.
The truth is that today's singers don't have an elasticity and clear registers because they don't practice bel canto technique like Marchesi,Vaccai,Panofka,Lütgen,Concone......
They have to react very quickly and to fix a timbro and high notes for the managers.
Like a quick pasta for 2 minutes.
Me as a singer and after 25 years of carrier I try not to be so categoric with the great singers because I know that the stress is awful....
I watched Your video of course.
Please don't put pop singers with classical singers because they have different budget and much lower tessituras.... And many many other thinks.Either to be experts let's be humans first of all.
Thank You
George
We feel this is a bit confused because these are points Garcia makes in the preface to "Hints on Singing". By Garcia's time, the old way of singing was being replaced with something more "canto e parole". Garcia was lamenting the end of the highly florid age of the castrati, not the end of "clear registers" or "bel canto". He does talk about registers in this book as well, but it's not a big deal at all. He's just dividing up the voice into high, middle, and low. He has specific pitch ranges.
Garcia was an important author who was helping to create the new, stronger, but necessarily less flexible approach that audiences thought of as the "Italian" style. The "french" style was lighter and more flexible, but it didn't make audiences go crazy like the Italian style did. We suspect the french style sounded a lot like modern singers trained in universities, and that's probably why audiences thought the Italian style was more exciting.
Please don't confuse these issues. The old school isn't a simple idea, and we wish we had never made these videos. We leave them up so people can discuss, but since we started actually reading old school books, we found out we were being lied to. We pressed "the maestro" on this and we concluded he had never actually read any old school books. He was just waving them around to intimidate people.
@@Thisisopera Continue with Your humanitarian work.
Forget about Garcia.
He was not important.
Just the same schooling with Marchesi,Callas, Sutherland,Caruso,Gigli and many others.
You're correct. Thanks for taking the time to discuss it intelligently. It makes the whole thing feel like less of a clown show.
Our view now is a bit different from before. If you don't like how someone sings, steal everything good that they do and then do it better than them. If you sit around complaining all day you're not actually doing anything about the problem.
The answer to bad singing is good singing. We don't claim to be there yet but that doesn't mean we can't hear the difference.
the sound recording is also very different.
At 14.09 Good Lord 😍
Aclaro soy partidario de la vieja generación de cantantes. Los cantantes de hoy todos me parecen un desastre. Pero no creo que la decadencia comenzó en los 70. En esta décadas y en los 80 hubo grandiosos cantantes, baste mencionar Caballé, Freni,De los Ángeles, Nilsson, Wunderlich,Gedda, Pavarotti, Krauss Aragall. Te Kanawa, Ghiaurov,Talvella, Lucía Popp, Sutherland, Cappuccilli, Taddei, Bruson, Astrid Varnay, Rysanek, Gwineth Jones, George London, Luchetti, Silvano Carrolli. Kurt Moll, Hans Sotin, Lorengar, Bergonzi, Cossotto, Jon Vickers, Troyanos, Jessey Norman, Horne, El Carreras de los 70 solamente. Domingo era soberbio aunque siempre tuvo dificultades en los agudos,Ramey, Tomowa Sintow, Ruggero Raimondi, James Mc Craken, La Obratszova. Janowitz, Kollo, Manfred Jung, Behrens, Mc Neil, James King, Kathleen. Battle, Wolfgang Brendel, Verret, Bumbry, Paata Burchuladze y muchos más. Decir que la decadencia inició en los 70 me parece exagerado. Para mí la verdadera decadencia inició en los 90.
Horne tenia muy mala técnica, Sutherland empezo con buena técnica pero se convirtió en una parodia de si misma. Kraus cantaba nasal, cosa que fue en aumento a medida que pasaban los años.
@@Ignasimp en qué se basa ud para decir que Horne tenía mala técnica? Cochina técnica tiene la Netrebko. La Horne era excelsa intérprete y tenía una gran técnica. Sutherland parodia de sí misma? Desde luego, en los 80 su voz ya no era la misma, pero incluso en esa época hay dos grabaciones de Lucia de ella. Una en el met y otra en Sidney. Son unos portentos de Lucia. Ninguna soprano hoy día puede hacerlo con ese nivel. Y Kraus sí tenía un sonido excesivamente metálico, brillante y a veces nasal. Eso quita lo excelso cantante que fue? Ojalá hoy tuviéramos un Kraus.
@@juanclorduy9821 Horne es horrible. No se ni como puedes escucharla y decir que no tenia mala técnica. Sutherland fue perdiendo claridad en las vocales y acabó sonando como una anciana sin dientes aun siendo joven. Antes prefiero escuchar a Kraus que a Horne. Lo que salvó a Sutherland para no perder su exito fue que seguia tenendo una voz muy potente y agil al mismo tiempo.
@@Ignasimp Esas son sólo apreciaciones suyas. Es subjetivo. Mencione una mezzo hoy día que pueda cantar con la personalidad de Horne. Quién puede hacer hoy un Arsace como ella? Qué mezzo tiene hoy el fraseo exquisito de ella? Que a ud no le guste no quiere decir que era mala. A mí la Callas y Hans Hotter por ejemplo no me gustan. Pero eso no me da pié a decir que eran malos. Del Monaco no tuvo una gran técnica. Tenía un portento de voz natural. Y Corelli precisamente se esmeró siempre en apartar la tosquedad del canto de Del Monaco
@@Ignasimp Di Stefano a mí por ejemplo no me ha gustado nunca por su sonido en exceso abierto. Pero por eso fue malo? Indudablemente fue uno de los grandes grandes intérpretes.
De los innumerables Mon coeur souvre a ta voix que he escuchado por muchísimas cantantes, hay dos que para mí ofrecen las más excelentes interpretaciones de este aria. Primero Jessey Norman que es absolutamente electrizante. Y en segundo lugar la Horne con su exquisito fraseo y lirismo. Ni la Cossotto, o Troyanos o Verret que también la cantaron y que también me fascinan superan a Norman y a Horne en la maestría con la que interpretan este aria. Ambas versiones están aquí en RUclips. Qué importa que a veces suene muy brillante o un tanto nasal? Cantar es mucho más que técnica. La técnica es el medio. El fin es la interpretación. La Scotto por ejemplo, tenía mala técnica. Sus agudos chilladísimos. Pero yo a esa mujer le perdono todo. La garra con la que esa mujer cantaba y expresaba con su soberbia actuación hace que yo me olvide de sus problemas de agudos. Fue menos por sus agudos problemáticos? En ningún modo.
Lo mismo me pasa con Domingo. La gente se ensaña con sus agudos tirantes, y porque bajaba de tonalidad muchas arias. La gente no fustiga en cambio a Tito Schipa o a Caruso que también tenían agudos difíciles y casi todo lo bajaban de tonalidad. Sospecho que en este foro consideran tanto a Schipa y Caruso como dioses. Y sí fueron grandes grandes así trasportaran tonalidades. Cantar es más que técnica y agudos. Y de Sutherland sí. En los 80 se le oscureció mucho la voz. Pero repito dígame alguien hoy que cante con el nivel de virtuosismo perfecto de Sutherland... No hay ni media soprano así
Im shocked! Even JULLIARD teaches this bs. Sorry! 😐
I totally agree & when opera singers conduct a masterless class,it's such a waste of time & doesn't really serve any positive purpose. Perpetual bad habits,technique. Callas, Cotrubas, Caballe master classes were stellar. But now it's the blind leading the blind. Diego Florez sub- Lyric voice was very beautiful in the beginning etc. His masterclass was horrible. The advice he gave one poor student was " If they can't hear you it's thier problem" how sad is that. Take care Arnaud Bourbon Amaral
Who is that at 6:50?!
The opera houses today can't give seats away for free..The Met in particular
Who can find the original video at 1:19 I just can't find it pls
No I hadn’t, I love going to the opera
cara mia from portal2 is actually the best opera
Operah nowadays sounds more lika a Musical.a mediocre one.
the complete lack of diversity and dynamics in vibrato and the heavy focus on power whilst ignoring all other aspects of the singing is horrifying
Who said I don't like opera?
Es una broma este video? El canto lírico es un logro supremo de la técnica vocal!
It is true that some operatic vibrratos are too heavy, but all singers like Mariah Carey, Shirley Bassey and, fir example, Tom Jones All have vibratos. The issue is not whether a singer should have a vibrato, but how it should be produced and controlled.
I'm afraid that all the author of this video is doing is expressing a personal taste and letting it masquerade as a learnéd opinion.
I dont like the way a lot of modern Opera singers "act"! No expression or Interpretation or empathy for the characters they portray.Just force!
...and you wonder why Flemming was booed at LA Scala, ... what happened to Anna, bad taste to equal that dress... Cura lost it early.
Opera has definitely changed because today singers preserve voices so they have longer careers and do not give all of their soul into a performance tuss making modern opera BORING.
Renee Fleming is such a disappointment her diction is some times so bad, and sings opera in a jassy way, with weird vocal inflections and guttural sounds!
Jonas Kaufmann is a special case in the opera industry as he first used a wrong technique and damaged his voice badly. eventually he went to train with a baritone and adopted this technique that doesn't damage his voice.
But he still sounds like a baritone without the ability to sing piano, constantly using his very weak head voice.
It's so different because the singers of today have no voice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No sound of their own and making noice, everybody can do that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ze hebben misschien wel stem, maar durven niet in borstem te zingen.
@@TenorRinke Een natuurlijke klank is belangrijk, iedereen kan geluid maken, materiaal hebben is iets anders!
@@familypondman Klopt, deze zangers durven niet met ( ik zeg borststem low larinx, met de benedendeur open) te zingen.
Met name mannen moeten hun laagte trainen om de stem vrij maken.
Niet met woofy klank maar met een robustere stemgeving! maar men durft dat volgens mij niet te doen.
what happened to these videos? why did Floria Tosca delete their account?!
Anna-Maria deleted her account because she’s trying to be a singer, and side by side comparisons of her own singing with “modern singers” don’t go so well.
Generally, we assume if you’re making an anonymous channel trashing modern singers, it’s because you don’t think it would go so well once you sign your name to it.
We support 100% any efforts to support opera singers and raise the level. We don’t support making things even worse by following “leaders” who aren’t even able to rescue their own singing.
We understand that you don’t have to be world-class to have something to say about singing. But there’s a limit. There’s a level of incompetence that crosses the line.
We are here to shine a light on that line.
@@Thisisopera that's interesting. i always thought of her account to be a "better version" of TIO. it seemed much more respectful; the goal was never to trash modern singers but to use and compare them to old ones to see what went wrong with technique.
it's a shame, but i wish her well. i'm glad Your channel is still available to preserve this content!
@@gummypusswatterson1322 they did soften their tone a bit after breaking up and going seperate ways
Nothing worse than a dying art form being perverted by people who don’t post themselves doing better than the current singers. Let’s not support artists for doing their best in modern times, let’s bash them and tell them their doing it wrong without any help to point them in the supposed right way! The original this is opera also was a coward channel, and purposely adjusted volumes. Everyone knows the old school was better, they also had 1/10 of the demands of modern singers on and off the stage and performed and traveled far less frequently and were paid more! You think you’re doing good but you’re really just ruining it for everyone with your absurdities. I type this as Juan Diego Florez is singing and you consider his technique poor and him horrible, yet he contributitions to the art form dwarf yours on your RUclips complain channel.
@@viv3147 and then you need to consider *why* it's a dying art form. in the age where singing quality is declining, regardless what genre, would it not be logical to assume that the art form that depends on it the most (and especially of such high quality; no amplifying, the voice must be heard over the large orchestra, very taxing arias...), also suffers the most? you don't have to be a good singer to appreciate good singing. TIO was far from pleasant in different ways, but at least they knew what they were talking about (most of the time) and made videos with the primary objective to educate. if you want to talk about "purposely altering the audio loudness" then you should also be aware that not every video on RUclips is of the same volume. thankfully, every device is now equipped with a tool we can use to manually change the volume to our own liking. and regardless of the volume, you should be able to pick up on the vocal quality of the singer (unless the audio is terrible) and recognize the qualities old singers have that modern singers don't. if volume is that important to you, then try to pick up on the context to get an idea of what it would realistically sound like; luckily, when it comes to the voice, there are plenty of indicators that tell us how loud a singer is singing regardless of the volume we're listening at. Juan Diego Florez, Diana Damrau, Cecilia Bartoli, all have done many things to promote opera and interest people. but that doesn't free them from criticism directed at their singing, because no matter what you do, people simply won't be interested if the singing is bad
Most people don't like opera because it's too hard. Listening to a 2-4 hour performance is already hard, but if you don't understand what anyone is saying (because it's in a completely different language) it makes opera unbearable for most modern listeners. Taking into account that we are also part of a "less pompous era," there is absolutely no reason for people to sit through a Mozart opera where the words are looped 30 times in each scene. The average listener doesn't know what is good and bad, the average listener does what they need to do. If back then it was considered intellectual to listen to opera (and that status mattered), people would do it. Right now, nobody cares if you come off as intelligent or not. We live in a completely different time. There is no reason for people to listen to opera. Old people watch opera, yet they don't understand and can not explain what they are watching. So why are they watching? Cause they've got nothing to do, and they want to come off a certain way. The music is also more primitive and easier to understand (in Mozart/classical operas), while being outlined and curved in a very repetitive but simple manner. This obviously allows for an easier digestion of the music for older people, for whom time flies faster than for young people who could be working, studying, doing anything at all.
So how about the few nowadays and preceeding that genuinely enjoy opera? They still exist. They still go to opera. As I came from a family of musicians, I have been going to operas since a very young age, and I love many of the performances I listen to (I didn't encounter most of the issues you've stated, maybe some of the incorrect darkening and some singers would over vibrato, but most of the time there were better singers who would counteract it).
There's a lot of issues with this video honestly. I'm not trying to instigate anything, but some of the recordings you showed for both sides sound pretty awful. You're also using examples of very controversial singers in general, like Maria Callas. People during her time complained about her lifts (I'm only talking about the lifts), so using her as an example of what people "used to like" and "used to consider good" is honestly very holey. Don't get me wrong, I love Callas, and she was a true master of language/acting. I do hope you understand what I'm saying though.
Referring to the "incorrect darkening," some people create chambers differently. Yes, you didn't provide examples of what we consider great singers, but they were still alright (the first one). It's crazy to hear this I know, but the reason opera started to die out in the 70's is because there was a huge shift in culture (in what was meta, popular, etc.). It takes one second to see what people were listening to back then to understand what I'm saying.
I somewhat agree with the acting, but not everyone is bad at acting like this. There are many amazing singers who still sing and act with the voice. You provide bad examples.
There are many great singers right now, and many great singers will come up. Opera will definitely make a comeback.
It will be hard for a lot of people here to understand anything I said, but I'm not writing this for you. I am leaving this for the future generations, so that when they look back (if they happen to) at these posts, they will find someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
If you dont know ehat they are saying that is not opera to me
And the great opera singers make Mariah Carey sound strained as hell even though she sounds like an angel compared to netrebko
Mariah Carey is such an overrated pop singer. But don't let her fans know that.
@@UranusRising LMAO in your dreams buddy. Mariah Carey is one of the greatest voices of ANY genre that has walked on this Earth.
For me Patti Labelle is the greatest vocalist. Mariah Carey is really great too but she is very successful in musicality and songwriting. She is also has one of the best melismas that is why.
Mariah was a good singer, but she likes to let go of the chest voice on every phrase and leaks air. It’s ruined her voice. When she first started, the voice was pretty strong, but her attempts to make that whispery, cutesy sound to end each phrase instead of just using it occasionally has pull the train off the track.
I just don't like the way opera singers voices sound. It's like they are all trying to imitate this same fcuked up sound. To my ears it's annoying.
Opera must be seen live to be appreciated. After you have seen a few good operas, you will be hooked.
Oh? I have been to several operas and been told by others who attended that they were quite good while I remained anything but hooked. They heard amazing vocal performances, apparently. All I heard was something that kept reminding me of the gobbling of a turkey.
@@mattalley4330 LOL, gobbling is a new one for me. Again, proves our point that there's worse than modern country music, rap, hip hop, etc. What about the content/subject matter? Actually take the time to read about this shit, and see that opera involves very unpleasant stuff.
@@mrnasty02106 I wouldn't say opera has anything bad in it. They have sad endings sometimes, but they're there to prove a point.
@@Siegfried5846 Well...okay. Fact- operas are the world's first form of musicals. So, like any story, sometimes the endings are not happy ones.
What does Mariah Carey and Shirley Bassey have to do with opera? Am I missing something here?
On the other hand physical beauty is also a big reason for the choice of a singer and spouses!
This is not something representative of opera. You have chosen some singers that are indeed "faking" their voice. BUT because you wanted to compare opera singing with pop singing in the beginning of the video, you should also mention the fact that pop singers nowadays (with the exception of some) are nowhere near as good as opera singers. Has any of them ever sang for three hours in a row, with no microphone, in alanguage the can't speak, combine that with the proper acting? NO. So don't start comparing falsely because believe me if we count how many pop singers literally don't have a voice but are helped through microphones, the number will be huge. So don't discourage people from listening to opera, because even nowadays it's very stereotypical to say that there are no good singers, because I know dozens of them. What about Dessay, or Damrau in her youth, or Garanca, or Sabine Deviehle or petter mattei??
Nowdays we have great singers, the only thing we don't have is a great amount of golden class singers (Like 70's and before). I have the belief that if this modern singers have better teachers they would be better singers (except the examples that you mentioned), the potential always exist.
Whole heartedly agree with you. Most modern singers use autotune all the time. It's refreshing when you have someone like Adele who doesn't, but then she has a proper voice. While there's a lot of truth in what's being said about opera singers today, keep on discouraging and opera will be a thing of the past. The singers you mention are all wonderful, and there are others I can think of.
Yes, it is representative of modern opera. Who are the most famous modern opera singers? They are all either mediocre or terrible.
@@Ignasimp yeah
though how would they compare to lesser-famous modern opera singers?
@@wachamcaulid there can be some good modern opera singers. But they are definitelly a minority and have to go countercurrent.
I disagree! Now in my 80's I have been a lifelong opera fan. Almost gave Opera up because of singers like Maria Callas and that god awful vibrato of hers, and others who over exaggerate their voices and acting! Perhaps that was fine back before sound equipment and video but now we can become up close and personal with the music and drama! The reason Opera has fallen out of favor is due to the fact it doesn't lend itself to a drug high!
This creator doest do enough exploring of "modern" opera. They're using terrible examples like Anna Netrebko. She wobbles so much her high note was beyond flat in this video. I honestly don't know who that tenor is, but he really isn't that bad. Some great examples we should look to for great modern opera are Simon Keenlyside, Bryn Terfel, Dimiri Hvorostovsky, Diana Damrau, Lucas Meachem, Rachel Willis-Sorenson, Cecilia Bartoli, people like that.
Opera is disliked because it's opera. Except for a few arias or whatever, people don't like opera because there's something inherently unpleasant with it:
the fact that you cannot use a mic, which then forces you to use vibrato all the time.
I see opera singers keep saying how that's what human voice naturally spunds like when the larynx is relaxed.
Well then I guess the natural state of the human larynx is not that relaxed which is exactly what is not natural.
Music outside theater is free. Doesn't have restrictions set in stone. People can do all kinds of things with their voices to convey an emotion and the cost is having to use a mic which then changes how things sound live and recorded but that's a small price compared to getting assaulted in the ears by the vibrato and high pitches from an opera.
It's great to listen to opera trained singers in other genres but at the end of the day, opera is something very specific, and rather gratifies specific needs and those needs that it satisfies are not really those that music in general satisfies.
La técnica se va perdiendo, en gran parte por la amplificación rn los teatros que descuidan la acústica. Pero un cantante lirico wue no se le oiga en teatro es matar el lírico. Para eso ya tenemos el musical.
king of nasal goes to..
But I like Opera!
16:22-16:23 Mario Del Monaca is here showing a vocal break, we can clearly hear his passagio. Thus this is bad opera since one of the first goal is to hide the passagio between full chest and "mixed chest"
I don't hear any voice break.
I don’t hear any break either. And you’re confusing art form with technique. In any case, let’s say that Del Monaco did break. All of these singers had marvelous techniques, but as to be expected, they also made mistakes. You can’t consider this “bad” opera because he broke a note, or didn’t hide his passagio. The most important aspect in opera, or any art for that matter, is to communicate, to express emotions, to make people feel what you’re singing, regardless whether or not they understand every single word you sing. So, this isn’t bad opera. Bad opera is what we hear today, which, for the most part, not only is it bad technique, but also little to no emotion.
It's not a crack, he just wrongly calculated how much he needed pression and air for this group of notes, causing a little squeeze on his throat and his vocal chords. If you call that a crack, you need to stop listening a lot of modern opera singers, because they sounds the same but x10 and almost all the time in almost all registers. The infamous throat sound.
You're hearing things. The ears are the first to go when you waste your life listening to shitty singers.
I disagree. His technique is fine, it is just a mishap. It does not necessarily make a bad opera.
SIMPLETONS.
Rodvanovsky sounds pretty impressive in the theater, but on recordings is pretty unbearable. Hers is the loudest and softest voice I’ve heard, yet I’ve been attending opera live for only 20 years. It would’ve been nice to have heard Corelli, MDM, Callas, and Tebaldi live. Let alone pre war singers.
Radvanovsky is very over rated. Especially when it comes to the several Bel Canto roles she's become known for (i.e. the Donizetti Tudor Trilogy, Norma, etc). She has neither the smooth and connected vocal line required by Bel Canto, or the vocal agility. She's great in Verdi and verismo repertoire, but never really learned Bel Canto singing! I'm nervous over how she will handle Medea!! I have serious doubts about this choice! Lisa Davidsen would be a much better choice!
@@artdanks4846 how can one be great in Verdi but not apply bel canto principles and traditions? Most of Verdi’s works were composed alongside Bellini and Donizetti.
I think most singers today are overrated. Soia Hernandez is the best I’ve heard in the heavier bel canto and verismo reps alike. Sondra has a very week voice in the lower register where I think she should be employing chest, but she seems to fear it.
@@singermanz I meant primarily some of his later operas, which were written after Donizettis death, as his style moved more away from the Bel Canto. Such as Amelia (Un Ballo), Elisabetta (Don Carlo), and Aida. (I haven't seen whether or not Radvanovsky has performed Desdemona yet, but I imagine it would be quite good.)
I agree with you re: earlier Verdi. I was VERY disappointed with her Lady Macbeth, for all the reasons you mentioned about her voice, (i.e. weak low register) and because Bel Canto singing is really not her Forte, even though she's been heralded lately as a Bel Canto singer. To me she falls too short of this, and just can't be compared to those who truly mastered that art (i.e. Callas, Sutherland, Caballe, and even Sills).
However, I saw her in Tosca, and was quite impressed.
To mine ears and mind, it's all the same effect, basically, but the difference can be in the recording production and the presentation image/imagery.
Bruh a lot of the "good " stuff sucked too.
This art form is corny and dried up .
Go listen to Tosin Abasi.
Tigran Hamasyan.
That's what's fresh and tasty while still scaling to the standards of high art
nah, people don't like opera cuz it's not relateable, no matter who's the opera singer or what technique, opera is such a hassle to watch/prepare too, you need large hall with good accoustic, orchestra, years of training etc.
Now compare that to pop/easy listening/ jazz singing even (not the music, but the singing technique)
Some people enjoy challenging their minds, and use their brains, rather than just blindly listen to mind numbing music for the unintelligent masses.
@@artdanks4846 Could you please define "unintelligent masses"? Exactly who are you referring too? I am curious, that's all.
Cheers🍸
you literally just have to google an aria you want to listen and you don't have to prepare for anything lol it's not a hassle at all
@@artdanks4846 naaah this kind of primordialism in the classical music community irks other people who wants to join
@@gummypusswatterson1322 nah mate, the recording process is WAY more difficult, i'm not talking about the listeners at home.
Nothing worse than a dying art form being perverted by people who don’t post themselves doing better than the current singers. Let’s not support artists for doing their best in modern times, let’s bash them and tell them their doing it wrong without any help to point them in the supposed right way! The original this is opera also was a coward channel, and purposely adjusted volumes. Everyone knows the old school was better, they also had 1/10 of the demands of modern singers on and off the stage and performed and traveled far less frequently and were paid more for that time then singers are in this time except for less than i don’t know, five opera singers on planet earth. You think you’re doing good but you’re really just ruining it for everyone with your absurdities. I type this as Juan Diego Florez is singing and you consider his technique poor and him horrible, yet he contributitions to the art form dwarf yours on your RUclips complain channel.
Opera is dying because people prefer other music and culture has changed. Pretty sure they had very little else in this the time of old school singing. I think people would’ve still preferred rock and roll on a large scale.
I agree! Let's do that!
If Opera keeps the golden age until nowdays, would be still less popular than actual music, but would be 100x better. The demand of modern opera singers don't help, anyway.
But don't justifies the flaws of modern opera singers, this is because Opera become ridiculous
@@dgxgamesy3940 Opera will always be less popular than pop music. And the demands of modern singers are too much.
@@dgxgamesy3940 People should make opera opera again because, when they do that, opera will become as popular as it was during and before the 1960s.
There's a little truth in this, but - nah. What sounds 'unnatural' and 'weird' is what you're used to - it *is* a cultural thing. For example, I find most modern pop, including the 2nd example here, very unnatural and weird! I also liked all of the 'bad' opera examples. Opera is just art in a little known language (Italian) and a little known (archaic) style. It parted ways with popular music more than a century ago - it could have kept evolving, remaining in harmony with popular tastes, and then it would have gradually turned more or less into today's musicals and rock operas. No biggie.
Do you really think that opera is in the Italian language only?
That's not how it works. There is a factually right way do do it, and a factually wrong way to do it. Most modern singers simply can't sing properly. And it's not only torture for their listeners, but also to their own voice. Incorrect singing techniques damage the voice.
My whole introduction to opera was hearing Pavarotti and his spot-on pitch and also Kathleen Battle and yet I'd hear Carreras going sharp and think what the heck is going on? Is that the way it's supposed to sound? And knowing it was out of tune (later performances with the joke called Sarah Brightman).
sarah notsoBrightman? yikes...the hype behind her was insane!
@@maestromuffin1 She was an "opera" singer for those who prefered musicals.
@@Altonahh10 but a mess for those of us that like both! lol
My Suggestion & My Advice for the all of the opera singers in the all of the world :
Don't sing like a countertenor, bass-baritone, baritenor, soprano, mezzo-soprano, contralto, alto, tenor, baritone, and a bass. !
Don't sing like that !
But sing like a pop singer and a pop star👍👌
And also to the like a daughter, teenage, young, youth, teen, cool, boy, son, guy, gay, and a girl.
Like the age of 23 years old, 22 years old, 21 years old, 20 years old, 19 years old, 18 years old, 17 years old, 16 years old, 15 years old, 14 years old, 13 years old, 12 years old, 11 years old, 10 years old, 9 years old, 8 years old, 7 years old, 6 years old, 5 years old, 4 years old, 3 years old, 2 years old, 1 years old, etc.
And then to the like a freaking cool, fucking cool, freakin' cool, freakin cool, fuckin' cool, fuckin cool, freaky cool, fucky cool, golden child, golden boy, golden girl, golden kid, wonderkids, wonderkid, children, childish, childs, child, kids, and a kid.
@@andriyapradiptakarim5979 are you ok?