Puccini’s Mimì - It’s What He Would Have Wanted
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- Опубликовано: 4 ноя 2019
- In the first episode in our new series we’re listening to Mimì’s aria from act 1 of ‘La Bohème’ by Puccini.
‘It’s what he would have wanted’ focuses on performances given under the guidance of the composer, and compares them with modern performance practice.
The next episode in this series will feature a very special transcription of a very special record, so stay tuned for that!
You can watch our first episode here: • Opera used to sound ve...
Bass opera singer here! I enjoyed the video! I do think there is a defense to the change of sound as both concert halls and audience taste have changed over time. The reality is I would never get hired trying to sing like the old school singers.
However, it’s super important that the difference is brought up! Lots of singers and teachers like to pretend vocal technique hasn’t changed. They like to parrot a lot of jargon about the bel canto era. However, most of us need years of prep to be able to safely produce the more darkened sound through our entire range that is required of singers. We tell our students “singing should feel like speaking” as if modern opera singing isn’t defined by its extreme departure from what the average speaking voice is capable of. Then we wonder why so many young singers get disheartened and give up.
What an important point made at the end: that modern singing is such a distinct departure from speaking. Absolutely spot on, I'd say.
I've been hearing that for years in voice lessons, and there's always been a disconnect from what they're saying.
Maybe what they're trying to get at is, is that your singing voice should be what most naturally resembles your speaking voice. Even that doesn't make a lot of sense in modern singing.
I love the way Melba showed off her rubato. It makes the piece more naturally conversational, funny enough in a way, more verista.
I have the Victrola my great grandfather purchased in 1906, with the purchase receipt - around $225 which is roughly $3000 in today’s dollars - a super high end system. Also, have the records, many just one sided. And, yes, lots of opera. Your lectures are brilliant. Thank you so much. I am learning so much. I hope you can keep this up. Feels like the perfect lecture/demonstration.
100 USD in 1906 would be more like 3,300 today
It's fascinating how different these performances are knowing that both singers coached with the composer. But, based on my own research, I suppose I shouldn't surprised, as there was in those days a general attitude of not merely allowing for but encouraging a variety of interpretations -- even from the composers themselves (a journalist who joined the pianist-composer Alexander Scriabin during a concert tour on which he played his own piano concerto was surprised to hear how Scriabin changed his interpretation for each and every performance, "according to his mood at the moment and the events of the day"). Also, the amount of rhythmic alteration heard here in both performances is startling -- at least to an instrumentalist, like myself! -- by modern standards. Thanks for sharing!
It's interesting that even the original 'verismo' sound was not the more 'modern' ideal of a heavy, dark, rounded sound but was more 'conversational'.
The astounding thing about these two early singers' styles is that they feed the realization of the character of Mimi so profoundly. The seeds of Mimi's demise are planted here in the fragile and conversational tone of the singing/acting of both these ladies. It's a revelation to me that the character is so much clearer than with later singers. Wow what a gift you've brought to us who are unfamiliar with the original style of opera. Thanks so much.
Imo it's also interesting that these old recordings with the lighter voices sound a lot like typical musical theater singing, vintage as well as modern;
musicals in the original romanticism style in particular.
This channel is what opera nerds like me have been waiting for.
These old singers actually sound like the character
What I can say, maybe the simplest thing anyone can say, but still, what I can say, is that Melba sounded more demure, simpler in voice, and yet absolutely beautiful.
A much more natural style of singing back then.
This is so interesting. An oboist by training, I have loved opera and classical singing all my life. And have more or less given up listening to it. I first listened to the live broadcasts on Radio 3 in the mid 70s and absolutely loved them. I rarely bother now and when I do I invariably give up at some point quite early on because I can't bear to listen to the music I love being sung so poorly.
These extracts you've played here highlight some of the issues, not least the current predominance of the middle voice. I never particularly warmed to Melba's singing in the past (just like it took me years to "get" Caruso), but listening to the actual quality of voice production that you demonstrated here was revelatory. I confess some of the rubato in these old recordings seems very mannered to me, sort of in the way that old videos of Martha Graham's dance performances look very "over-drawn" now.
Still, what I love about your channel is the forensic look at the different schools of singing and the resulting differences in the sounds produced. It feels like there is something here just waiting to be re-discovered. Thank you for taking the time to do this.
we would love to hear your version, please!
We need it!!! Pleaaase!!!
You are taking on quite a challenge. Opera goers pay hundreds of dollars for a seat to hear the “world’s best” operatic sound. After that experience, they are not going to be receptive to the concept that another style of singing is better than the bag of goods that they purchased and lavishly praised. My best to your voyage.
Thank you very much!
What i learned from an old man who knew an old man who heard Melba singing live in Covent Garden, was: The voice carried like a fire ball through the Auditorium and that she did not have no Vibrato, but a very fast one, so you can hardly hear it.
Geraldine Ferrar said something similar - that Melba produced a beautiful sound that hung in the air - and Ferrar had no idea how she achieved it.
Thank you for this beautiful "picture". Yes the sound should hang in the air and come from everywhere
@@operntheater I experienced this hearing Sutherland live. Her voice carried to the highest point at the Met (and I mean the very top) and enveloped me.
I'm still learning to hear the six differences. But the Bel Canto singers make me lean in and want to hear more. The other singers make me tense - literally I find myself clenching my jaw - and remember why I never go to Opera.
This is amazing, thank you so much. As I said when I was lucky enough to hear you perform at Chawton, you've brought this older generation and style of singers alive for me. I thought I didn't like Melba, especially, at all! Thanks heavens I've kept some of her 78s - I'll go back to them anew now! A miraculous change for me, and so richly instructive.
Windup Merchant Thank you! Interestingly, Melba is the only singer who, for me, doesn’t sound radically different on the EMG as she does on a good transcription. I imagine it’s because her ‘white’ voice recorded very well. EMGs are very good at bringing out the complex colours in a richer voice. Have you noticed a difference?
@@PhantomsoftheOpera Hahaha, no, simply because I don't listen to them by other means! Incidentally I'm drowning in a huge influx of 78s at the moment, lots to give away to friends and especially early vocal to yourself and this worthy cause, whatever you might want - there may be a get-together early December here - do please drop me a line by email.
This is my favorite opera and I so happy to be on this ride you are taking us on back into the past to understand the history of singing! Thank you!
I am so grateful for your superlative video. I love Boheme and Teatro Colón, my second home, in Buenos Aires, where so many of my family directed, played and sang. I do like the great Melba´s way and trasure her recordings. Mille grazie.
Thank you so much. We cannot but profit from your blessed and profound presentation of the angelic yet seldom appreciated voices of the past. My first teacher, Mr. William Webster, impresario of the Washington Opera ( before the Kennedy Center ) and protege of the unparalleled Enrico Caruso, fondly reminded me that Caruso as the embodiment of Puccini’s ( and others )verisimo presentation introduced a raw loudness and force to opera, but although he had many imitators with voices as loud or louder, Caruso was GOOD and loud with a sound and nuance that filled the heart and soul, at times delicate and serene. Today most of his recordings reflect primarily the grand force of his capabilities. Alas, so much lost. And, so much desperately misunderstood by those who try to emulate him. Mr. Webster spent much of his time trying to show me the hollowness of mere force as a presumption of vocal quality. What I see that denigrates opera today is perhaps what I would call a pompousness of voice that is musically correct but not necessarily vocally correct and too often about the singer rather than the emotive essence of the song. Be the song and damn the singer. But, to your infernal question, “Would Puccini like the way opera singers of today sing his works?”
I do not know. He always sought what presented the emotions he wanted to convey. Caruso was in his early career an experiment. Puccini was willing to innovate. He sought the result. Some things about modern grande opera would thrill him, the sets, the staging. Some things I am sure he would find revolting, modernization of ambiance and above all adjustment to reflect social and political messages. He would regret perhaps that modern singing technique does not seem to have the clarity and focus that is not lost in the fullness of orchestral presentation. But I am sure he would appreciate Dame Melba’s thought that real, proper singing is easy. I have learned through hard experience that to vocalize otherwise is hard and progressively harder. I heard that at a Picasso display a learned pedagoge eloquently and at length explained to his entourage what Picasso was trying to portray in a painting. To which Picasso, in attendance but unannounced, said he had no idea what the fellow was talking about. Well, I suspect that I likewise have little justification for assuming I know what Puccini wanted or liked, so please forgive my trespass. My excuses are that I loved your presentation and Puccini’s operas.
Loved opera for decades. You provide a great technical and historical information which complements beautifully to increase appreciation.
I'm happy I found your channel! I've been enjoying this class of operatic singing which is so rarely appreciated nowadays. Thank you!
It is ironic how the "HIP movement" promotes ridiculous vocal styles in the name of "authenticity" (often completely made up and based on speculation), while the performers from the late 1800's and early 1900's, who have left RECORDINGS, and who were not only educated and trained at the time the composers, whose music they performed, composed, but often sang directly under the guidance of those composers, are completely ignored by modern singers, coaches, conductors and directors, and are viewed as hopelessly outdated and antiquated. Those singers actually sang in the style PREFERRED by those composers and we know it for sure as there is recorded evidence of that.
Thank you for the interesting video!
May I add to the topic two key figures in Puccini's music? Luigi Ricci and Arturo Toscanini.
Ricci was Puccini's repetiteur and wrote a very important book, called "Puccini interprete di se stesso", in which he reports all the important details of every opera written by his beloved Maestro.
At the beginning of the book, he writes the famous "Decalogo di Puccini". A sort of ten commandments for Puccini's music.
Of these ten commandments, two are quite noteworthy and pertinent to this video: Fermatas and Portamenti.
Fermatas: Puccini hated every exaggerated effect, including long fermatas at any cost. For him, a fermata should only double the note value. Not more than that.
Portamenti: Same thing for portamenti. He got annoyed with their overuse. Therefore all portamenti are specifically written on the score.
We can hear how Cesira Ferrani follows the composer's intentions much better than Melba. This is also thanks to Arturo Toscanini, the conductor who premiered the opera, known to always be at the service of the composer's indications.
Today we are experiencing a complete collapse of all aspects of opera:
1) Wrong singing technique and often recycled interpretation ("I am doing what Callas/Freni did").
2) Incompetent conductors with no clue about singing, who generally do not even know the text of the opera. Nello Santi was, in my opinion, the last true opera conductor.
3) Stage directors of the "Deutsches Regietheater" movement. They are in my opinion putting the nail in the coffin. With the pretext of "keeping opera alive" and "removing the dust from the outdated staging and the banal librettos" (I heard those very words multiple times), they denaturalize and overcomplicate the characters and their feelings. This makes the (already precarious) singer's job even more impossible. I always wondered why are they interested in disfiguring works they don't like instead of commissioning new operas according to their liking.
4) Artistic directors and managers who prefer physical beauty to real artistic qualities. Somehow, virtually all "stars" of today are quite pretty, regardless of whether they can sing/act or not.
5) Cultural decay of the public, who is now unable to recognize authentic beauty from a fraud.
Well said.
Beautifully presented lesson on the vital question of style/technique! Brava!
It’s so clear in this video that all the vowels of the old singers are super clear throughout their entire range, whereas the modern singers almost exclusively sing variations of an O vowel, as to achieve the dark sound that people today believe to be the hallmark of opera.
Ziazan, you have the voice I would expect to find at the end of the rainbow: perfect bel canto and melodioso parlando
I am an opera lover dincr age 8 yesrs and am 88 now and my love has increasrdongh by month. Thank you for such an imteresting and valuable insight into the
vocal artistry
❤ 2:23
Thank you very much. Wonderful and useful explanations for opera lovers with no technical knowledge of music. I love having discovered your channel, madam.
Absolutely fascinating, thank you so much! Melba is simply a great artist, perhaps more so than anyone else in this video? I have always thought that in previous eras (perhaps going back to Mozart, or still futher??) singing was much closer to speaking - this renders the text more intelligible for starters, which undoubtedly would have been important to audiences who did not know the operas the way we do (because they had just been written:-) But also because the volume emanating from the orchestra was so much less then. This might not make so much difference in Boheme, but it certainly does in Wagner and Strauss.
This is fabulous. Thanks for the comparison. The trend in many videos lately, at least in my view, is to represent Verismo singing as if it were the “Old Italian School” of singing; you show here clearly that that is not the case. Both singers are miles ahead of modern singers, though. It’s a shame that Verismo is considered vulgar, and that Bel Canto is considered trite. While I’ve trained in verismo and love the thrill of strong chest voice, your videos are making me think twice about certain elements of my training, and help to refine my taste. I’ve always admired Garcia Jr’s teachings, and you’ve really helped clarify a lot of his writings for me. Please keep doing what you’re doing.
Thank you for the video! I have always heard that Puccini called Dame Nellie 'the Mimi of my dreams!'. Yes, I do want to hear you sing this!
I'm not an expert, but I love opera and my preferences are evolving as I watch your videos. Thanks!
Thank you for putting so much detail together on the history of not only the styles, but his notations with the singers. Definitely remain as Puccini would have wanted it. Every person that performs Puccini should be required to translate/read Luigi Ricci's book on Puccini's interpretations of his own works and how he wanted them performed. He had a style of his own, and chose singers that best suited the roles. Even La fanciulla del West was written specifcally with Enrico Caruso in mind to sing it. Tenors these days should study Caruso performing as Dick Johnson.
More Puccini videos please!
Raisa was not a verismo singer, but was trained in the bel canto school. She was a famous Norma of her time, but she also happened to have a large silvery voice, which was a good fit for Turandot. If you listen to her "Ah, bello a me ritorna" from Norma, you hear a voice that is perfectly schooled in the bel canto tradition. Carmen Melis, in contrast, would be a true verismo singer.
It was interesting to hear that sometimes the simplest piece can be the most difficult to sing. I read a quote from a soprano of the early 20th century who said "The Last Rose of Summer" was very difficult. Also, I have read that "Dove Sono" is also considered quite difficult, which is interesting to me because it doesn't look difficult on paper (i.e., no coloratura passages).
Would love to see an episode like this about Verdi’s Lady Macbeth!!
Very interesting to watch and listen to these comparisons. I have a couple of gramophones and way too many 78’s but it has always struck me that the style of singing on those records is totally different to what is expected of us today as singers.
I have lost count of the times I’ve been told my singing doesn’t have enough colour/variation/dynamics, but as a loud baritone I’ve always found the more declaratory ‘verismo’ style to suit my voice much better than trying to create expression through other means. Even if that means there’s less audible difference in the sound, I’d still just rather be audible!
I look forward to learning more from your videos though and thanks for bringing these golden voices out of the shadows again! Thom x
Thanks a lot. I never liked 19th century opera so far and never could understand the operatic way of singing... Now I understand why. It's all very wrongly sang! Thanks for your work! I start to like these music now...
Two of Nellie Melba's lasting (nonoperatic) contributions to the world: The dessert "Peach Melba" which was named for her, and also "Melba Toast" which was supposedly the kind of toast she favored.
I, for one, would cherish hearing you sing La Vergine degli Angeli! O Nume tutelar, as well!
The picture of Cesira Ferrani is actually of Lotte Schoene.
Amazing!
Thank you for this! 🙏
Really interesting content, however, I really struggle to compare the sounds of these old recordings with current recordings. Im guessing an awful lot of the vocal quality is lost or distorted with older recording techniques. Im also curious to know how much the method of recording affected the voices ie. Modern recordings can be made of stage productions quite accurately, presumably with near, mid and longer ranged microphone placement. I expect that the older recordings would need close microphone placement due to the technology of the day - did the singers alter their singing to take this into account or use their full 'stage' vocals - did they really sing the way we hear on old recordings. Very interesting to consider. Im very glad you are pursuing this history its fascinating, but I do struggle to appreciate the older recordings as the musicality is so badly compromised. Would it be possible to compare 'modern' style singers with a current singer capable of using some of these older techniques. I would find this easier to understand the comparisons and hear what overall effect the different techniques had on the singing.
I suspect you are listening to the wrong thing. If you are listening for a perfect recording capturing the full resonance of the operatic voice you will be disappointed. Instead, listen for the delivery of the music, the utterance of the text, the legato, vibrato. Those qualities can be easily be heard irrespective of the quality of the recording.
For instance, legato does not require the best recording to be heard. It is simply singing notes as of it's one continuous stream broken up only by consonants.
I remember reading that the opera panel in a MET broadcast was stumped in identifying a contemporary artist (Birgit Nilsson) when recorded on an antique device. Birgit said she would never again trust such recordings.
@@linnaeusshecut3959 Is very very very strange to her our voice in a record. Even harder the singing voice.
@@linnaeusshecut3959 Actually, Nilsson said she would never again laugh at those old recordings...
Yes would love to hear your performance of the aria thank you
Have you listened to Saioa Hernandez? I would love to hear your analysis of her singing. She’s the only current singer I know of anywhere close to the old techniques.
True
I love all our wonderful, gifted, hard-working, modern singers. And it certainly makes it much easier to enjoy opera today if you don't live in the past.
An excellent point about the aid of microphone today.
Thank you for sharing your ideas, especially those valuable clips from old recordings.
Speaking of spoken quality and the incorporation of breath, it reminds me of classically trained "modern" young singer Dimash Qudaibergen, who chooses to sing more naturally even he is capable of modern operatic styles.
One very basic thing is: if lyrics become too difficult to hear clearly, what's the point of having a human being sing to musical notes with lyric in an opera then? (Any instrument can do then same effect then) And if emotional expression is hindered by the chosen "technique" of delivery, why would we prefer a human singer to a perfect pitch machine then? (AI perhaps?)
I would rather listen to the auditory performances of Cesira Ferrani and Nellie Melba, especially where Melba is concerned, because there is an overall completeness in their technique from the chest tones to the high notes.
Victoria de los Ángeles sung Mimi at that way, as if she were speaking and not singing, as a recitative and not just an aria. Amazing.
I wish you would do a video about how Puccini would want Scarpia sung.
This is fascinating, thank you for this video. I had never heard of the Verismo and Bel Canto styles, I know much more about musical theatre than opera. It seems to me like there are some parallels between these two worlds. Some musical theatre composers (I'm thinking especially of Stephen Sondheim) prefer a more conversational singing style that lends the performance a feeling of realism, this seems similar to the Verismo style. But other composers might lean towards a style of singing that shows off the beauty of the voice, prioritising the aesthetic of the singing over realism
Thank you so much for educating us. please please please make a listening list of good Belcanto recording. It will really help us train our ears to identify fake operatic sounds and appreciate real talent and art 🙏🙏 ❤🎼❤️
Very interesting and pertinent to understand the development or denouement of verismo singing over the years. Callas was trained in Bel Canto but she wasn't always consistent in how she applied it. In her recording of Bohème, perhaps she had more leisure to float the tones rather than having to project in a massive opera house.
In general I find Ferrani a little wooden in expression, not as fluid as Melba with her honey like legato aptly applied. In the last part of the aria, the third clip cited, indeed "il profumo d'un fior" is much better rendered with the last syllable of profumo exactly like that with a floating fragrance. As for the modern singers doing this, the less said the better.
Another thing, although Ferrani does brighten some of her lower vowels as in E above Middle C, she does not darken them on the top and forget about those singing today. It could be the literal mind set of wanting to sound like speech on the top but the truth is all the vowels converge as one gets higher, so you may as well sing an "oo" on the A and relax.
Darkening and brightening the vowels is definitely a feature of bel canto and hardly done today.
I too loved your presentation and love Puccini’s operas. I liked Melba's performance the best (though all of them were really good) because it seemed to best capture the essence of Mimi and really all Puccini's heroines; i.e., unassuming, pretty and petite most of the time, but who then show an immense inner strength and emotion when the situation calls for it. It's that unexpected complexity of their presumed wallflower character that makes them so interesting, and their ultimate downfall so tragic. So when I hear a Mimi (who is dying of consumption) sing everything in high power, full vibrato mode, it rapidly becomes unbelievable for me. And don't even get me started on "O mio babbino caro" from Gianni Schicchi. I've listened to maybe a hundred recordings of it, and (as the father of 4 daughters) have yet to hear a single Lauretta sound convincingly like a young girl trying to convince her father.
That's Puccini's fault. Listen to the original that he himself coached how it should be sung: ruclips.net/video/9RyM34Fzp-o/видео.html
@@GordonLF Thank you for sharing that link! I didn't know it existed and yes I like this Puccini/Florence Easton version more than most. Her voice is relatively light and sweet in the beginning (even with the vibrato), and the piano accompaniment almost sounds like a child's music box. Now please don't judge me too harshly for criticizing a Puccini-endorsed interpretation, of a song he wrote (no less), but it seems to me Lauretta's voice should become sadder and more desperate when she sings "Andrei sul Ponte Vecchio, ma per buttarmi in Arno!, Mi struggo e mi tormento!, O Dio, vorrei morir!" I mean she is contemplating suicide, and I don't really hear that from Easton's singing. At least to my ears, she seems to maintain the same light and sweet approach with which she started. And it isn't until the final "Babbo, pietà, pietà!" that I start to believe she really means business. I love and respect Puccini's music. But maybe any composer's preferred method of performing their composition isn't always the best way to achieve the desired audience response. Just my 2 cents worth.
@@dmw0077 Thank you for taking the time for such a detailed response. I'm glad the link to the original Lauretta was useful to you. You touch many points and my answer to you would have to be way too long for the comments section on RUclips. Just let me say that, while I think I understand your point of view regarding the sopranos's approach to the aria, I'm afraid I have a different take. Gianni Schicchi is a farce. I've seen it many times (I can recall 14 different versions between stage and DVD) and not once could I take Lauretta seriously. She is not contemplating suicide, DMW007 (you don't threaten with suicide if you´re serious about it). Just pushing her dad's buttons (although delicately with real feelings of love) to get away with what she wants. That's why I said "that's Puccini's fault". Whatever emotional idea he wanted to project with OMBC (innocence?, deceit?, love?, despair?, etc.) he was doing it through the music (and the lyrics). The delivery was (and I think it should) be secondary. It's just one aria and t's not poor Mimi who cannot afford matches and is dying of consumption. If Puccini fails to convey the meaning of the song or a change of mood amid the aria (with a more or less "neutral" delivery by the singer), it's not good opera. But of course, Puccini is superb opera. So....
Sopranos during Puccini's times, although real divas no doubt, would sing the arias in a more straightforward manner than nowadays, and follow the authors prescriptions. I don't mind if a modern soprano croons her interpretation of the character's singing provided she can show me first that she can sing the part as it was written. But this is all another topic...
@@GordonLF Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed reply. You've given me a lot to think about (a good thing).👍
This video confirms my long held personal opinion, that a singer who is well trained in Bel Canto singing would also still be the best voices for singing Verismo. I particularly think of Maria Callas who was known for her Bel Canto singing, but was also an amazing Verismo artist. And you can hear it really well here, between Melba (Bel Canto trained) vs. Ferrani (Verismo only). Great comparison! THANK YOU!
Hello, waw amazing documentary. I agree, now understand why is boring all the modern opera singing! Of course would love to see your historical work about this aria! ;))) Cannot wait ;)
Dearest,
I just discovered this channel and I haven't even finished this video yet (had to pause at minute 7), but I just wanted to say WHAT A BREATHE OF FRESH AIR YOUR ARE! thank you so so so so so much for the research, effort and needless to say the top quality content. we want the OLD, REAL opera back!
oh, and by the way, Claudia Muzio's Mimi is an absolute "must-listen" for anyone who is interested in the old way. She created the role of Giorgetta in Puccini's Il Tabarro and her climax in Mimi's 1st aria, at least in my humble opinion, is the most "true to score" that i have ever heard. The way she sings "Maaaaaa Quando vien lo sgelo" is the perfect match to "con molta anima" (with a lot of spirit) which is what the Maestro wanted. I'll put the link below for anyone who might be interested: ruclips.net/video/tujZG4HJFxo/видео.html
I love Muzio! She sings the beginning of this very much like my teacher did, it was her favourite rôle. My teacher’s teacher, Roy Henderson, found it too nerve-wracking to go to his students’ performances most of the time, but he saw Rae in “La Bohème” and said she was the best Mimi he had ever heard! Unfortunately I don’t have a recording of her in it, but I hope I can record this aria as she taught it to me.
@@PhantomsoftheOpera first of all, OMG OMG u responded (fangirling intensifies LOL), secondly, Please do record that. it would be sooo lovely to hear this particular aria sung with the old technique, recorded with the modern recording technologies. btw, quick question, the discord server is open to all of us, or just the Patrons?
That was a great presentation, and it's a good tack to present interpretations as they are, describe them and leave the decision up to us. I'm disappointed it has only 657 likes - now 658. And yes, I surely would go to a historically informed performance of Puccini, as long as it's informed by period recordings and not the people who claim that no-one used any vibrato in the 18th century and so forth and then push that sound forward to Mendelssohn and further. I did think the first current-day singer you excerpted sang beautifully, though.
La Stupenda, Joan Sutherland is the (singer) that introduced me and many common Australians to Opera, if only because we loved (laughed?) at her name. 🙂
Anyway, I am enjoying learning more about this often mimic'd but strangely engaging art. (love listening to old recordings, something comforting about the crackle of vynal)
Wow. What a superlative teacher you are (of theory, as far as it concerns me, who never sang.) And Melba wins hands down. Hers is music, never mind what Puccini intended. You also made me better understand why I can't enjoy Opera past the early 60s.
Melba was my favorite. She seemed to inhabit the role, which to me is a quality somewhat aside from the technical. I also believe, as a long-ago flutist, that little vibrato goes a long way. Yet in the end, it is all music. Just listen.
I would also like to make an addendum to my now one-year-old comment that I made. It also says something that coloratura sopranos such as Giuseppina Huguet, Mercedes Capsir, Lotte Schöne, Hjordis Schymberg, Erna Berger, Bidu Sayao, Hilde Gueden, Anneliese Rothenberger, Melitta Muszely, and Anna Moffo have way more coordinated chest tones and more ebb-and-flow in their legato singing than any of the recent sopranos singing Mimi. Furthermore, lyric sopranos who also fulfilled the vocal standards set by Puccini based on Cesira Ferrani's first performance also included Rosetta Pampanini, Licia Albanese, Victoria de los Angeles, Rosanna Carteri, Antonietta Stella, Gabriella Tucci, and Mirella Freni.
looking forward to registers. for example, how Maria Callas' voice sounded so different between registers. is this normal? on purpose? just a fact of nature? how do singers try to accommodate their going between registers?
The break you hear is called a passagio, everyone handles that transition differently but it’s a bit like walking off a cliff and trusting their will be ground.
Our culture is obsessed with smoothing the difference between registers. Contemporary singing and belting requires mastery of the passagio.
This serie is amazing! Mind to keep on it? 😁
In listening to Ferrani, I thought of Moreschi the last Castrato, for some reason certain parts of the voice sounded like him or the way he sang/produced the voice
I would go to any variation of opera singing, to learn and enjoy.
Personally, I always loved the Caruso sound but I did not know why, until now. He sounded more pure. Now I know why I love his vibrato vs the modern tenors that followed. Some, one of whom is recently, sadly passed, are wonderful … but they are big, beautiful hams of a tenor variety, compared to Caruso.
Thank you
Well, let’s say I love opera so much and am so passionate about it that I can no longer go to modern performances. One thing that drives me crazy is the refusal of the modern sopranos and mezzos to use chest voice. So, to just answer the last question posed in the video, of course I would go to a historically informed performance of a verismo opera. At the same time, I would not go to an “historically informed” baroque or classical opera because they are usually anything but “informed”.
Just compare the high A's they're hitting in „il priMO baccio“ 7:16 / 8:01 - how sweet and clear Melba sounds compared to Ferrani. It is true, though, that character-wise Ferrani feels closer to Mimi. It's not easy to find a balance in such a highly dramatic and expressive piece.
Please don’t stop posting
What do you think of Joan Sutherland's singing & technique? She had longevity as a singer, and seems (to me) to be largely in the newer style of singing (different from Melba). She also, perhaps, had a highly unusual voice... and - I really appreciate your channel! A favorite for me, and for a friend of mine, is your Maria Callas video 👍👍 - I shared it with him and he liked it.
I’d love to see a production with singers using the old technique, but I also think the more modern sound is good and perhaps healthier if done correctly. There’s a reason why operatic voices last longer than the voices of rock, country, and blues singers. I’m wondering if this old technique would sound closer to the sound of modern musical theatre technique.
Hello, this is a very interesting thought that "the voices of rock, country, and blues singers" last longer, I think as in opera that depends on the singer.
Interesting. As a trained tenor I find it impossible to sing hymns or carols. I can't sing as trained without being regarded as a show off - but to sing along with the attendees leaves me with a sore throat.
Totally different styles of singing. Rock and blues also often have very aggressive styles that the singer tries to capture, but you can actually sing contemporary styles like this without vocal injury. There are many old rock singers who still have great voices at old age, Paul Rodgers, Rob Halford or Bruce Dickinson. The problem is, as soon as you have received some vocal training in these style, you often start to lose the emotion and uniqueness of the music and your sound.
Rock and blues especially are all about emotion, if you lose that you become boring. Popular music is very competitive you might need to take some chances if you want to get somewhere. Led Zeppelin was basically created in 1969, lead singer Robert Plant had no idea about vocal technique, by 1973 he had already lost a part of his range and he kept on declining, Led Zeppelin disbanded by 1980. But the legacy they have left is almost unmatched, rock singers are still trying to sound and sing like Robert Plant, in those early years. They are still selling more then many up and coming artists. Robert Plant is still performing, I think he has received vocal coaching along the way, he just wrote new material that works for the voice that he has now, people don't care they are still awestruck by Led Zepplin's early sound, which is forever preserved. It is somewhat similar to Maria Callas, her vocal decline was not pretty to watch, but her recorded history remains on inspiring people. A pop career is very fleeting, you have to take your chances. Freddie Mercury famously never wanted any voice lessons or coaching, he thought it would destroy his sound. lol
He sang at his best before he died at age 44. So he might have been right. Life is short you might only get one chance, so you might need to take some risks. Queen still sells more music then many popular artists these days on the charts, people are still inspired by that sound.
Back to opera, your voice will decline no matter which technique you follow, the voice or the organs that produces the voice, ages. There is no way not to age.
The roles within opera are written for younger people. I don't see why everyone should stick around as long as possible. The worst example is Domingo, he was taking roles away from young baritones. Just last night I watched a clip of Tucker and Merrill performing the famous Forza Del Destino duet, I guess they were both in their 50's. The whole story surround that opera would be quite unrealistic at the age of 50. I am not sure opera singers can or should perform in most lead roles at the of 60 for example. At some point you have to move on.
Who were the four modern singers?
This is so fascinating but I couldn't even listen to the differences in their technique. I was so distracted by how "accessible" they sound. Almost like non-operatic singing. I have a version by Nicole Car and another by Wei Huang and the difference was so fascinating.
Edit: definitely commented before finishing it lol.
I am glad you have pointed out about the danger of Verismo music. The music is absolutely sublime and phenomenal to listen to, but it is a definite "caveat Emptor" for the singer.
1:00 Monteverdi and Gluck had the same goals!!
True
I think it would be better sung in the bel canto method. It’s so pretty
Very interesting, I do understand now why I never liked any Puccini opera, since I do not hear it nowadays like it is supposed by Puccini
I prefer Ferrani'a performance to Melba's. I like the fuller sound Ferrani has and I believe her high notes in the middle of the aria are more about interpretation than the ability to hold them. The 'e' in "e mio", after all, is an 8th note with Tenuto, even if most people like Melba treat it as if it had a fermata.
I preferred Melba. I thought Melba was more lyrical, much more legato, more exquisite. What I liked about both singers is the openness and clarity of the voice, they both have excellent intonation. Today voices are too heavy and the vibrato so wide it sounds out of tune. The singers today do not sing with the great emotion they did in the past.
A good example in La Boheme would be Renata Scotto. When singers don’t sing properly, they damage their voices and the vibrato becomes too wide, this happens when singers age very common .
There is only one way to get to Carnegie Hall. Keep practicing. There is no easy way to get to the top and stay there. Make the best of what equipment you have. Bel Canto seems the logical way to develop evenly and steadily. You will know if and when you've arrived. The results are worth the efforts however arduous they may be. I look forward to your next video and, of course, thank you.
Tebaldi is the culmination of taking the middle sound high. Incredibly exciting, but not sustainable as a singer ages. (It also helps to have a gorgeous natural sound, which I can never hear in Melba’s recordings.)
I've now watched several of these presentations, and they are very interesting, thank you for posting. A few thoughts: I too have noticed a greater prevalence of the problems you allude to among more modern singers, and it's hard for me to hear as well. And frustrating, because these singers seem to be genuinely talented and accomplished in so many other ways. But I notice that you are putting up some fairly extreme examples of this, i.e. certain singers at some of their worst moments, and replayed under high magnification. Fair enough. But there do exist relatively modern singers whom I genuinely admire. I have wondered whether there could be some examples of some singers who lie somewhere in between the oldest recorded styles you are positing and the more recent. For example, agreed - I for one prefer a less wide vibrato and more forward and brighter, lighter sound, not forcing the voice. If someone has a naturally rich and darker sound, and that is their natural instrument, well, all the better for me (I chose cello as my instrument for a reason!) Sometimes I wonder if the Eastern European sopranos whom you have set up in the 'don't try this at home' category may be at least in part predisposed to sing in this darker way because of the demands of their spoken language. That in itself is a very interesting topic for me - how much does our natural speaking placement, which varies so much from one language to the next, impact singing style?
But let me ask this: are there any relatively modern singers that you really enjoy? For example: what of Lisette Oropesa? Or going back a bit, and to a different fach, Kathleen Battle? The swoon worthy Nicolae Herlea? (mentioned on RUclips by Lucas Meacham, thank you Lucas!) Or Tebaldi? Lucia Popp? Or Pavarotti in his prime?
I can't seem to develop a taste for the style in the oldest recordings that you are playing, even trying to listen repeatedly, carefully, with ears and heart open. I could explain why, but I don't want to overstay my welcome. Admittedly, in spite of the equipment you are using, I suspect it can't quite give as accurate an impression of a live performance in that era as we would wish, so allowances must be made. But I'll keep listening and see how it goes.
Maybe when all is said and done, tastes inevitably change. One sees this in sports, for example. Would a renaissance of the old style you seem to be advocating bring more enthusiastic listeners into opera? I'm a bit pessimistic. There are uncontrollable forces afoot that affect the the public's ability to sit still, concentrate, and really listen. And there are myriad other problems, imo, including but not limited to the ticket costs, the perception of the audience snobbish and rich. Then there are some of the more bizzare Regie productions. But I'm grateful that classical music is still available, possible to hear live as well as recorded, and that there are still very talented musicians waiting to make their mark in their own way. In a century, it could well go the way of finding an historically fairly accurate performance of Greek Tragedy now. Then we wouldn't have the plethora of interesting and passionate discussions of opera and how it should or shouldn't be, and it would be a big loss for those of us who love it. Thoughts, anyone? And thank you again to the author of this site, whose name I can't find.... (?)
The photo is of Lotte Schonne.
Really fascinating stuff. Too bad the sound quality of the old recordings is so different from the modern ones....like comparing apples to oranges. I find myself not really liking any of them very much, old or new.
What an interesting comparison! I had never heard Ms Ferrani's recording before, while I'm more than acquianted with Madame Melba's, which I've heard many times over the years. If you played to me Ferrani's disc (or cylinder?) without telling me anything beforehand, who's the singer or the fact that she was the first Mimi, I'd say that her over emphatic rendition of the text is absolutely ruining her legato, jeopardizing her phrasing rather than adding to it. Her almost staccato delivery of "ma quando vien lo sgelo", pointing out every single syllable: is that what Puccini had in mind? Really? The luscious orchestral writing seems to state otherwise. Melba is more comfortable to modern ears, and in my opinion an overall much grater singer, with a sounder technique. Too bad those recordings cut a big chunk of the upper harmonics in female voices, making them sound flute-like. She must have been quite an impressive artist in real life, and her world fame more than justified. Anyways, if you asked me, I'd go for Caballé, even if her diction is blurry above the staff. Lol
3:00, Melba trovava il ruolo pesante per la sua voce
6:15, non vibrato nella Melba
7:04, ma quando vien lo sgelo
8:35, portare su la qualità della voce centrale nel registro alto
9:40, germoglia in un vaso
10:46, germoglia Melba
11:15, osservazioni sullo stile di conversazione
12:20, Thomas Barke? Allievo di De Lucia
15:17, cantante di oggi,
16:40, altra cantante, sul vibrato
17:45, su vibrato ancor più spiccato e modo di respirare
18:45, spingere il registro centrale in alto
In the climax section Melba displayed generous chest tones.
A very nice comparison, however don't you agree we need to take into account the piano vs. the orchestral accompaniment. Possibly the recording with piano, the singer could have arguably been closer to the recording device, and possibly the singer with the orchestra would have been further away, thus making her top sound like she is easing or not giving as much effort, but in fact, its just the location of the singer. Some food for thought but lovely singing, nonetheless.
You're right, it is important to take recording conditions into account, because it was very different from today. I'll be making a video about that, so stay tuned. Meanwhile, this scene from one of my favourite films affectionately recreates how records were made in the 1900s. Watch what they had to do for the high notes! ruclips.net/video/-cqnATSWX6I/видео.html
@@PhantomsoftheOpera omg so cute
Yes, I would be interested in a HIP performance. Personally, I find voices that are too "friendly" (they wave at you too much) take away from the beauty of both the voice and the music.
He probably like both singers for different reasons. We will never know how they sounded in the hall as all who did are long gone. They certainly did not sound as even the best early play back machines can give us.
Also the best singers didn’t sound as wonderful in a room as they did in a hall.
All unfair comparisons to early and modern great singers.
I do agree great singing is getting more difficult to find.
Is Ponselle the older or newer school?
The further away from the original it seems the more heavy, dark, and slow the performances become. I suppose that is what ‘serious’ music lovers like?
ok, subscribe is obligatory
What is that lovely typeface?
I think you put your finger on the cause of the different styles of before and now. The new singers didn’t want to study bel canto.