What strikes me about all these old recordings is that the voices, though of course not perfrct (they are human after all), sound absolutely effortless, minimal vibrato and evenly toned throughout their range. I personally find that much easier to listen to than most of the modern singers. Thank you so much for sharing all this with us.
Thank you for covering this. I had a big conversation with a bunch of singers about this, how Tamagno had a bright forward sound and was the voice chose to debut “Otello” in contrast to singers like Del Monaco and other modern dramatic tenors. Even singers heavy dramatic tenors like Melchior sang much more forward and bright.
Fantastic video, as always! Thank you so much. The video made me think about how people got used in the early 50's to listen to very dark, mezzo-sopranish voices singing the heavy Wagner roles (Varnay. Mödl), and how when Birgit Nilsson auditionned for Isolde to Karl Böhm, the first thing he said was: "but she is a soubrette!"😅
I think one tenor who could be Tamagno's successor as Otello would definitely be Mario del Monaco. He had the strong, ringing, brilliant tone complete with sheen and power while emitting that virility which makes Otello a strong yet troubled warrior.
Tamagno sounded terrible. He had technical problems. And Verdi like Mozart knew what he wanted to hear. Yes, but I bet if Verdi heard Domingo, he’d be thrilled.
I love this series!! Would you consider, if you revisit it, covering some recordings of the so called "bel canto tenors" such as De Lucia and Bonci as compared to the style of Tamagno and Caruso?
I think a lot of the modern obsession with a really dark Otello comes from Vinay. He was blessed with an amazing upper extension very uncommon for even high baritones. No, he was not a “baritonal” tenor, he was literally just a baritone. Later in life when he grew too old to sing that way, he returned to baritone roles in which he was indistinguishable from any other dramatic baritone at the time (in how good he was, not his voice which was unique). There is a two hour interview on RUclips where Vinay talked about how his highest note was a Bb, so he explicitly only sang tenor roles in which he could get away with staying around that area. The darkness in his voice, which I’m sure some of was a little forced for effect, was natural and therefore he continued to sing much later in his life. I find it amusing that the heaviest voice to sing Otello performs the grace notes and scoops less than many much lighter modern voices.
Tenor Miguel Sánchez Moreno, producto de años de estudio y luego de una incansable carrera de éxito que lo ha llevado a tantos países con el repertorio justo a su voz, Aida, Il Trovatore, Otello, La Forza del destino, Cavalleria Rusticana... posee una técnica única, él logra “descorporar” su voz.
I'm confused about this whole "darker and betterer" talk, isn't Kaufmann just a baritone / baritonal tenor / idk with a dark voice? Is this a "trend" somehow? Are the sharp treble tenors extinct or sth?? Like what about Florez etc.?
@@username45739 Kaufman is not a baritone, he darkens his voice artificially. He has no squillo. If he used dark and bright sounds, as in chairiscuro he would sound far better. He started as light lyric tenor. Flores is a very nasal singer, which can work to a certain degree in French repertoire. But like all modern tenors he has no squillo. You cannot hear opera singers very well if they don’t have squillo, that is essential.
ruclips.net/video/zt6w2STAlmQ/видео.html Whether you like Vinay or not, he was absolutely a tenor. The color of the sound is obviously dark, but the man could always handle the tessitura of the tenor roles he sang. If you can get through act 3 of Siegfried and sing it the way he does, he’s a tenor. The color of the voice was dark enough and big enough that he could extend the career be singing lower rep as he got older, but he’s 100% a tenor. It had nothing to do with the upper extension, it has everything to do with tessitura.
Thank you for this brilliant survey of singing then & now. The way you present your material makes it accessible to opera fans of all levels of experience. I, for example, have been analyzing these recordings since before you were born, and you still provide insights that are new to me!
su análisis son los más objetivos en mi opinión. subtítulos disponibles. No sé cómo los hacen disponibles. Tuve que aprender italiano, francés y español para ver y entender los videos que quería ver. O al menos... Y, lamentablemente, yo mismo los traduje palabra por palabra
While I understand and agree with everything else you’ve presented, darkness of tone is a good thing. Modern darkness is just false darkness, usually produced by valsalva. True darkness is produced by a low larynx and unbridled sound. True darkness is not forced. Brightness is also good, but a voice’s color must have an equal balance. They are like head and chest voice in that way. However, I am under a slightly different school of thought, so we may just have some technical differences.
New subscriber (hi!): A lot of spicy comments in this video. I wonder if the element that trips everyone up is the concept of “what is a loud voice?” versus “what is a big voice?” a topic which fascinates me.
Most tenors add another G# before the grace note B, as Tamagno does, which makes the execution easier. If Tamagno did it one assumes that Verdi did not object.
Yes! And so is that of another Wagnerian, Torsten Ralf. Very lyrical. But the problem is thinking of Otello as a heldentenor role has changed expectations. A dramatic Italian role, even heavy spinto. But it's still Italian. I happen to love the Pavarotti recording. Nice to hear it sung rather than shouted.
2:40 and other places, could you always please provide the bibliographic references of the texts you use in the description section? It would be most useful for all wanting to find more information on the subject. Thanks.
Tamagno's voice is free because he can take his time to stop and breathe whenever he wants. Today conductors don't allow this. It's also evident that Tamagno produced a nasal sound at times, perhaps to lighten the voice. The B flat is flat. Period.
The title of your program: It's What He (the composer) Would Have Wanted, is most accurate. The goal of the singer is not to interpret the role as he understands it to be but rather, to understand the wishes of the composer that are expressed in the musical score and the libretto together. The gifted singer is the one who can successfully use his talents to realize most accurately, the composer's vision of the role.
Thank you for sharing the excerpt of Tamagno, he is indeed great. I think there is a bit of a false comparison here, however, because the modern day tenors here are mediocre even today. They are not representative of the greatest singers in this role over the past 2-3 decades. I’m also not sure Tamagno’s voice would work in today’s enormous opera halls.
Quite right with that first part - Kaufmann may be popular, but he's not the best tenor to sing Otello in recent years. The second point is a myth - opera houses were just as big as they are now, particularly in Paris, London, and Milan, where the houses averaged 2000-3000 capacity since the early 1800s. Tamagno had and in modern times would have no problem getting his voice to carry anywhere - his whole reputation was in having a gargantuan voice.
Very very VERY interesting! Also watched the video on Massenet's Sapho! If I may, I would just like to point out a little detail. But before that, I must excuse myself for my poor English, and warn you that I'm a brand new opera lover, so maybe I should study more before commenting the video of a well-versed opera expert like you, but I'll still do it in the hope of learning something new! I just wanted to point out that the modern tenors that you critized didn't sing the role in the same condition as Tamagno. By that, I mean that you compared 3 live performances to a recording. In a live performance, the singers have to move, to manipulate accessoiries, to keep an eye the chef, to interact with their collegues, etc., so I suppose that it's a little bit more difficult for them to really focus on the singing and the singing only. It seems to me that it would be more fair to compare Tamagno's recording to a modern recording of Otello. Voilà! I will now watch your video about Puccini's Mimi :)
You make a very good point! The concept of “live” recording is a relatively recent one. There is a big difference between live and studio recordings today because it is possible to manipulate a performance after it has been recorded to make it seem “perfect”. This can include correcting pitch, modifying the timbre, adding artificial acoustics, and joining different takes together. Most studio recordings today are made in a purpose-built studio (although some classical musicians and singers like to record in places with flattering acoustics, such as churches) and artists can do multiple takes, record small sections of a piece at a time, and listen back to what they have already recorded, so they can improve on it in the next take. None of these luxuries was available to the early recording artists. All recordings were essentially “live” in that they usually had only one take to perform the complete work, it was often (as in Tamagno’s case) recorded in the singer’s own house, and if they wanted to listen back to what they had just recorded, it would destroy the physical record. As well as this, singers had to sing into a horn, moving backwards and forwards for loud and soft moments, unable to see the other musicians, who had to play on unsubtle instruments specially designed to be heard clearly on record, which invariably sounded out of tune, according to Emma Eames. It was an uncomfortable process that singers complained about, because it made singing so difficult! Imagine how much better they must have sounded when they didn’t have to worry about all this! We can’t listen to singers of the past and of the present performing under identical conditions, but I have tried to make the comparison as fair as possible. I don’t think it would be right to compare a modern studio recording with one of the earliest recordings. I use live performances of modern singers because it’s the closest we can get. But even live performances can be manipulated these days! I hope this makes it clear. Thank you for bringing the subject up. I might make a video about it, because there is much more I could say. I’m glad you are learning something and enjoying my videos!
I’m sorry, I think it’s funny that Villazon is positively commenting about the brightness and squillo of Tamagno’s sound. The only thing that would have been funnier is if it were Kaufmann saying it. Villazon way over darkens and is really struggling with his technique.
Regarding Tamagno's tempo - I thought about this a bit. It says "Allegro assai ritenuto", translating roughly to "very cheerful, held back". Doesn't sound like a particularly fast tempo, going by the words. On the wiki page for the metronome, it mentions Verdi as one of the critics, preferring to go by the words. Tamagno performed around 59 bpm (single beat). Has anyone seen the autograph of the score? Did Verdi give this 88 number?
I find it so strange that Tamagno’s vibrato is so pleasing to you. To me it sounds too much like a goat. Free maybe, but beautiful? Modern singers need a different technique because the opera houses and orchestras got bigger and bigger so voices need to be stronger to be heard .
Tamagno's voice was beautiful! I think a beautiful voice develops not only with practice, but with quiet confidence, and a modest realization that the art is a priority, not fame or the ego. BTW - Can somebody out there tell me the name of the piece that the woman sings and men's choir sings behind her at the outro? The harmony makes me think of Heaven!
My teacher, considered a great American maestro, endeavored to eradicate ego in his students, and emphasized the musical truth in the written score. He was tough, but he made me a much better musician and pianist.
I have to ask is Tamagno's perceived fast Vibrato an artefact of the recording being old, or was vibrato sung like that back in the old day? Having said that the vibrato is precise and narrow which I do like, it is not as tiresome to the ear.
I do wish she touched on about that. But then, I think Tamagno's singing is what Verdi would have wanted as stated in the title. Del Monaco's is slightly different as he utilizes a verismo or realistic style of opera singing
Del Monaco didn’t darken the voice as much as the more recent tenors and certainly had power, but he always used a very low larynx had a tendency to sing fortissimo all the time and wasn't very flexible, so it was hardly bel canto.
I think the relationship with the composer is notable. BUT . . . there was no radio or tv. What there was was church. The darkness was in there. To contrast reality (life & church), opera gave light. And a lot of opera was in smaller houses. They've sacrificed spirt to capacity. At least, according to box office. I believe they should return to spirit, the audience is going to be listening . . . that's why they're there. They just have to care.
Has any frequency analysis, particularly of overtones, been done in an acoustic laboratory to identify precisely what this “darkening” of higher tones exactly consists of? I have to say that knowledge of physics actually can make a constructive contribution to all of the arts, whether it is singing, musical instrument sound production and reproduction, ballet, painting, sculpture and acting.
I’m not sure I understand the criticism of Jonas Kaufmann here. His “Esultate” sounded great! The lower G sounded comfortable. And, not only did the High B grace note sound great, he did it as written, unlike Tamagno.
@Charles Coleman. Kaufmann's voice is always a forced (i.e. fake) darkened sound. This causes unnecessary restriction throughout his range, from top to bottom. His "natural" voice was that of a beautiful lyric tenor. But, he learned to cover his voice in a very constricting way, to try and mimic a dramatic tenor, which he is not.
Charles you forgot the rule of being a proper nutty opera commenter on RUclips: If you’re famous, then you must suck! Read what some of these nuts say about Domingo and his technique. By the way I love your channel, especially your analysis of the Bernstein Mass recordings. Can you make a video on the Schmidt Das Buch mit Sieben Siegeln and it’s best recordings? I’ve been begging Hurwitz for months to do it but to no avail!
Little disappointed that you only compared Otellos- really would have loved to hear you compare Victor Maurel’s singing with modern baritones who sing Jago.
An excellent Otello you are not taking in account idea Francesco Merli... He had a sigillare technique to the One of tamagno but with a more "modern" Approach than Tamagno's
Of all the modern tenors you could have picked as an example for singing Otello with modern technique, why did you have to pick Kaufman? All of us know that he over-darkens really badly in his middle voice and that the role of Otello is too big for him. You could have picked someone more like Aleksanders Antonenko.
The problem with the modern singers is that they don't have squillo. You wouldn't be able to hear them in the theatre. Absolutely no mention of Mario Del Monaco, who is generally seen as the Otello. He had a dark voice, and the low larynx, and he had squillo for days, that is the chairoscuro technique, a mixture of lightness and darkness. Singers these days miss the lightness, which is the squillo. I guess the youtuber would not approve Mario Del Monaco. People do enjoy different types singing. I personally don't think dramatic singers should be too corned with flexibility or much nuance for example, it is not really a flexible voice. It is a voice more meant for strong and big dramatic expression and emotions. There are far more operas and singer who do concentrate on the more lyrical qualities. There is no need to apply that approach to dramatic roles as well.
@Mor Isil Wëindal ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html El más grande tenor dramático actualmente Miguel Sánchez Moreno. Viven en Italia. Está activo. Repertorio justo para su gran voz pesante, oscura. Auténtico Otello. El mejor Esultate de todo el web es ese interpretado magistralmente por el maestro Miguel Sánchez Moreno con la fuerza que requiere el personaje... posee la fuerza y temperamento Justo del personaje.
All the dark unarticulatred voices of today, if I want to hear it with a now living tenor I woud rather hear it with Joseph Calleja. Too bad that Björling died before recording the whole opera.
Thank goodness Bjorling didn’t record Otello. His voice was not suited to it at all. Recording Turandot was already way past the size of voice, and of course Pagliacci and Radames as well.
@@Revener666 Thanks for the link, that was very interesting! He is still sounding like a normal lyric tenor to me, a full lyric tenor. Lauri Volpi also had a lyrical type of voice, but his voice had more power then Björling's voice, he could get away with doing Otello. Björling had a great sound, he would likely sound good in whatever he sings, that doesn't mean everything is well suited to him, or that he should have sung everything. Did Björling ever sung something with Robert Merrill live? Merrill had a massive voice, Richard Tucker, who had bigger voice then Björling almost struggled to keep up with Merrill live, in Invano Alvaro. The studio is the studio, Lanza also recorded sections from Otello, it doesn't mean anyone should believe that he would a good Otello. According to Brigit Nilsson, Bjorling's voice was boosted a lot in their Turandot recording, so that he could match her. This is something that was often done with lyrical voices. Big voices on the other hand, tend to sound, smaller on a recording. But of course, people do have different taste, if you enjoy Björling in that duet, or the idea of him in Otello then obviously that is fine.
@@ZENOBlAmusic well I was only talking about recording the opera not perform it live on stage so. To me opera roles does not have to be a certain voice type. As long as it is performed well.
As Rosa Ponselle said of Martinelli’s voice, it had to be heard in the opera house and not on studio recordings because his tones needed space around them to resonate fully. Comparing his RCA Victor studio recordings of excerpts from “Otello” with acetate recordings taken from Metropolitan Opera radio broadcasts of his Otello underscores Ponselle’s point.
Tamagno does not sound very heroic but the age of the recording might have a lot to do with that. Alagna is not a good comparison because I feel his voice is not suited to the role. Kaufman gets a lot of flak but usually delivers in a huge range of roles. Not sure if the older singers had to perform as often as the modern singer, one day in London and next week Milan and then New York. Pavarotti said it is impossible for the modern singer to give 100% all the time. They must be able to give 80% all the time. Kaufman certainly sounds more heroic than Tamagno but neither would be in the same league as Jon Vickers in his prime. Domingo also makes a great fist of the role.
He's considered to have had one of the biggest most heroic voices ever, but some of the richness might be lost in the old recordings. But it still sounds pretty exciting to me.
A poll was taken years ago asking many music and singing experts who was the greatest Tenor of the 20th century? Domingo came out top. In my opinion the singer that best exemplifies the modern technique is the American singer Lorraine Hunt Lieberson.
@@draganvidic2039 ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html El más grande tenor dramático actualmente Miguel Sánchez Moreno. Viven en Italia. Está activo. Repertorio justo para su gran voz pesante, oscura. Auténtico Otello. El mejor Esultate de todo el web es ese interpretado magistralmente por el maestro Miguel Sánchez Moreno con la fuerza que requiere el personaje... posee la fuerza y temperamento Justo del personaje
No one could sing the esulatate or ora e per sempre at the tempo Tamagno takes them and make it through a performance. And, as you said so yourself, Tamagno is FLAT in ora e per sempre. Singing in tune matters. The irony of this is that you gloss over all Tamagno’s flaws as artistic integrity, and that he, oh, SINGS THE WRONG WORD! It’s UN ALTRO bacio, not ancora un bacio. The color of Tamagno’s voice is bright yes, but all anyone wants in an otello is the size of the voice, his was huge. Most of WHY it’s so bright is because he’s singing his F and F-sharp wide open which is a personal technique choice. Everyone laments that Björling didn’t live long enough to sing Otello (or Calaf) on stage, but that voice is plenty bright. Vickers, ALSO, didn’t have an overly dark sound and his Otello is also thought of as one of the great ones. McCracken had a weird vibrato but not a dark sound, also a great Otello. If you’re going to play the whole “im an expert I know best about what these composers wanted” on this stuff, like you’re doing on this channel, then you can’t cherry pick contemporary performers having a rough day like the very first esultate, and then talk about poor Maria Callas singing through everything and apologizing for her bad performances. Be intellectually honest, and not a hypocrite.
If recognizing his singing a "wrong" word (that still conveys virtually the same meaning) is what you'd consider intellectual honesty, then consider being intellectually honest yourself as this "flaw" isn't nearly in the same ballpark as the inverted vibrato, or strained high notes of the other singers, some of which are even considered the best of their generation. Nevertheless, it would have been interesting addressing Tamagno's caprino.
Are you being very intellectually honest then, or are you conveniently forgetting that Tamagno's was literally the voice chosen for the role by the composer?
@@MartyMusic777 First off, I NEVER criticized the tone or brightness of the voice. In fact, if you actually read what I wrote, I cited MULTIPLE singers with a brighter tone who sang the role, or parts of it, to critical acclaim in the 20th century. Secondly, Otello premiered in 1887, at the age of 36-37, and these recordings are from 1903-1904, when he was 53-54 and a year away from dying, and, omg this might be a newsflash to someone as stupid as you clearly are based on your reading comprehension, but voices AGE and CHANGE (I know, a shock to completely and total dumbass like you), and sometimes things happen and they’re not in the same shape that they’re in at 53-54 as they are at 36-37. So do me a favor, and try to not to question my intellectual honesty,
No one laments the fact that Bjorling never sang Otello or Turandot. 😂 He had a small voice, not suited for those roles, at all. He did not do well in Aida on stage. They had to boost the volume of his voice on the Turandot recording. The only singer that you can truly lament that did not perform Otello was Franco Corelli. Bjorling was a lyric tenor, he simply wasn’t suited to spinto and dramatic roles.
The old tenor was flat and had that tremolo or goat sounding vibrato. Yes Kaufmann over darkens his voice and Roberto pushes it to much but Tamango wasn't perfect there either.
Sorry, Tamagno hsa no breathing technique and no taste in interpreting...... He is mostly loud. The role is really misunderstood in this video. Otello is not at all a "shouting" role , not a hero. Otello is a painful suffering poor creature. Thats what Verdi ment, when he said that "not every role is for every voice", as he had known Tamagno´s voice as mostly loud.
It's a shame that you have stopped this series. I found it fascinating and educational.
What strikes me about all these old recordings is that the voices, though of course not perfrct (they are human after all), sound absolutely effortless, minimal vibrato and evenly toned throughout their range. I personally find that much easier to listen to than most of the modern singers. Thank you so much for sharing all this with us.
Thank you for covering this. I had a big conversation with a bunch of singers about this, how Tamagno had a bright forward sound and was the voice chose to debut “Otello” in contrast to singers like Del Monaco and other modern dramatic tenors. Even singers heavy dramatic tenors like Melchior sang much more forward and bright.
That opening is HILARIOUS!!!!
Another fascinating discussion and immensely interesting. Thank you so much.
Fantastic video, as always! Thank you so much.
The video made me think about how people got used in the early 50's to listen to very dark, mezzo-sopranish voices singing the heavy Wagner roles (Varnay. Mödl), and how when Birgit Nilsson auditionned for Isolde to Karl Böhm, the first thing he said was: "but she is a soubrette!"😅
I think one tenor who could be Tamagno's successor as Otello would definitely be Mario del Monaco. He had the strong, ringing, brilliant tone complete with sheen and power while emitting that virility which makes Otello a strong yet troubled warrior.
A wonderful Otello!
Tamagno sounded terrible. He had technical problems. And Verdi like Mozart knew what he wanted to hear. Yes, but I bet if Verdi heard Domingo, he’d be thrilled.
Antonio Paoli would be a great choice as well.
@@nskull9368 I totally agree with you.
Francesco Merli i think is a great otello
I love this series!! Would you consider, if you revisit it, covering some recordings of the so called "bel canto tenors" such as De Lucia and Bonci as compared to the style of Tamagno and Caruso?
I think a lot of the modern obsession with a really dark Otello comes from Vinay. He was blessed with an amazing upper extension very uncommon for even high baritones. No, he was not a “baritonal” tenor, he was literally just a baritone. Later in life when he grew too old to sing that way, he returned to baritone roles in which he was indistinguishable from any other dramatic baritone at the time (in how good he was, not his voice which was unique). There is a two hour interview on RUclips where Vinay talked about how his highest note was a Bb, so he explicitly only sang tenor roles in which he could get away with staying around that area. The darkness in his voice, which I’m sure some of was a little forced for effect, was natural and therefore he continued to sing much later in his life. I find it amusing that the heaviest voice to sing Otello performs the grace notes and scoops less than many much lighter modern voices.
Miguel Sanchez Moreno... gran tenor dramático, el último de los mohicanos
Tenor Miguel Sánchez Moreno, producto de años de estudio y luego de una incansable carrera de éxito que lo ha llevado a tantos países con el repertorio justo a su voz, Aida, Il Trovatore, Otello, La Forza del destino, Cavalleria Rusticana... posee una técnica única, él logra “descorporar” su voz.
I'm confused about this whole "darker and betterer" talk, isn't Kaufmann just a baritone / baritonal tenor / idk with a dark voice?
Is this a "trend" somehow? Are the sharp treble tenors extinct or sth?? Like what about Florez etc.?
@@username45739 Kaufman is not a baritone, he darkens his voice artificially. He has no squillo. If he used dark and bright sounds, as in chairiscuro he would sound far better. He started as light lyric tenor. Flores is a very nasal singer, which can work to a certain degree in French repertoire. But like all modern tenors he has no squillo. You cannot hear opera singers very well if they don’t have squillo, that is essential.
ruclips.net/video/zt6w2STAlmQ/видео.html
Whether you like Vinay or not, he was absolutely a tenor. The color of the sound is obviously dark, but the man could always handle the tessitura of the tenor roles he sang. If you can get through act 3 of Siegfried and sing it the way he does, he’s a tenor. The color of the voice was dark enough and big enough that he could extend the career be singing lower rep as he got older, but he’s 100% a tenor. It had nothing to do with the upper extension, it has everything to do with tessitura.
I have heard many tenors sing the Esultate and Tamagno's remains the most remarkable performance on record. And Tamagno was 53!
Thank you for this brilliant survey of singing then & now. The way you present your material makes it accessible to opera fans of all levels of experience. I, for example, have been analyzing these recordings since before you were born, and you still provide insights that are new to me!
A fascinating study, many thanks!
Sería un sueño hecho realidad escuchar tus videos en Español. Nadie hace un análisis como el tuyo. Congratulations!
O por lo menos con subtítulos en varias lenguas como: inglés, español, francés, italiano, alemán e portugués.
su análisis son los más objetivos en mi opinión. subtítulos disponibles. No sé cómo los hacen disponibles. Tuve que aprender italiano, francés y español para ver y entender los videos que quería ver. O al menos... Y, lamentablemente, yo mismo los traduje palabra por palabra
So great to see your fun personality come through in this video! It can't all be death and ghosts, even when it's...oh yes, Otello. 😐
While I understand and agree with everything else you’ve presented, darkness of tone is a good thing. Modern darkness is just false darkness, usually produced by valsalva. True darkness is produced by a low larynx and unbridled sound. True darkness is not forced. Brightness is also good, but a voice’s color must have an equal balance. They are like head and chest voice in that way. However, I am under a slightly different school of thought, so we may just have some technical differences.
Tamagno's heart was already bothering him when he made his 1st record. He died 3 years later of a heart attack.
I can’t wait to learn about musical sobbing and gasping techniques!
Without considering Tamagno because we have only that recording, and I love it, my favorite Otello is Del Monaco.
New subscriber (hi!): A lot of spicy comments in this video. I wonder if the element that trips everyone up is the concept of “what is a loud voice?” versus “what is a big voice?” a topic which fascinates me.
Most tenors add another G# before the grace note B, as Tamagno does, which makes the execution easier. If Tamagno did it one assumes that Verdi did not object.
Melchior's Othello is very good imo!
Yes! And so is that of another Wagnerian, Torsten Ralf. Very lyrical. But the problem is thinking of Otello as a heldentenor role has changed expectations. A dramatic Italian role, even heavy spinto. But it's still Italian. I happen to love the Pavarotti recording. Nice to hear it sung rather than shouted.
2:40 and other places, could you always please provide the bibliographic references of the texts you use in the description section? It would be most useful for all wanting to find more information on the subject. Thanks.
Tamagno's voice is free because he can take his time to stop and breathe whenever he wants. Today conductors don't allow this. It's also evident that Tamagno produced a nasal sound at times, perhaps to lighten the voice. The B flat is flat. Period.
Excellent video, excellent channel 👍👍👍👍
I guess Jussi Björling could be considered the link between old and new style of singing.
The title of your program: It's What He (the composer) Would Have Wanted, is most accurate. The goal of the singer is not to interpret the role as he understands it to be but rather, to understand the wishes of the composer that are expressed in the musical score and the libretto together. The gifted singer is the one who can successfully use his talents to realize most accurately, the composer's vision of the role.
Thank you for sharing the excerpt of Tamagno, he is indeed great. I think there is a bit of a false comparison here, however, because the modern day tenors here are mediocre even today. They are not representative of the greatest singers in this role over the past 2-3 decades. I’m also not sure Tamagno’s voice would work in today’s enormous opera halls.
Quite right with that first part - Kaufmann may be popular, but he's not the best tenor to sing Otello in recent years.
The second point is a myth - opera houses were just as big as they are now, particularly in Paris, London, and Milan, where the houses averaged 2000-3000 capacity since the early 1800s. Tamagno had and in modern times would have no problem getting his voice to carry anywhere - his whole reputation was in having a gargantuan voice.
You should check out Tenor Gaston Rivero as Otello. He was Barenboim's, Ulf Schirmer's favourite Tenor for heavy Verdi and Puccini roles
Glorious voice
WOW
One might be interested in the Jon Vickers video of the ending.
Nothing can dissuade me from (somewhere, somehow--supernatural assistance required) wanting a Wunderlich Otello.
ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html
That opening though 🥶🤣🤣
Very very VERY interesting! Also watched the video on Massenet's Sapho!
If I may, I would just like to point out a little detail. But before that, I must excuse myself for my poor English, and warn you that I'm a brand new opera lover, so maybe I should study more before commenting the video of a well-versed opera expert like you, but I'll still do it in the hope of learning something new!
I just wanted to point out that the modern tenors that you critized didn't sing the role in the same condition as Tamagno. By that, I mean that you compared 3 live performances to a recording. In a live performance, the singers have to move, to manipulate accessoiries, to keep an eye the chef, to interact with their collegues, etc., so I suppose that it's a little bit more difficult for them to really focus on the singing and the singing only. It seems to me that it would be more fair to compare Tamagno's recording to a modern recording of Otello.
Voilà! I will now watch your video about Puccini's Mimi :)
You make a very good point! The concept of “live” recording is a relatively recent one. There is a big difference between live and studio recordings today because it is possible to manipulate a performance after it has been recorded to make it seem “perfect”. This can include correcting pitch, modifying the timbre, adding artificial acoustics, and joining different takes together. Most studio recordings today are made in a purpose-built studio (although some classical musicians and singers like to record in places with flattering acoustics, such as churches) and artists can do multiple takes, record small sections of a piece at a time, and listen back to what they have already recorded, so they can improve on it in the next take.
None of these luxuries was available to the early recording artists. All recordings were essentially “live” in that they usually had only one take to perform the complete work, it was often (as in Tamagno’s case) recorded in the singer’s own house, and if they wanted to listen back to what they had just recorded, it would destroy the physical record. As well as this, singers had to sing into a horn, moving backwards and forwards for loud and soft moments, unable to see the other musicians, who had to play on unsubtle instruments specially designed to be heard clearly on record, which invariably sounded out of tune, according to Emma Eames. It was an uncomfortable process that singers complained about, because it made singing so difficult! Imagine how much better they must have sounded when they didn’t have to worry about all this!
We can’t listen to singers of the past and of the present performing under identical conditions, but I have tried to make the comparison as fair as possible. I don’t think it would be right to compare a modern studio recording with one of the earliest recordings. I use live performances of modern singers because it’s the closest we can get. But even live performances can be manipulated these days!
I hope this makes it clear. Thank you for bringing the subject up. I might make a video about it, because there is much more I could say. I’m glad you are learning something and enjoying my videos!
I believe Sutherland used to insist on recording a whole scene at one time. The cast would then go back to fix any errors.
Tamagno was sick and retired.
Tamagno was sick and retired.
An episode about Verdi’s Lady Macbeth would be thrilling I think!! (Maria Callas perhaps fulfilling Verdi’s dreams?)
Maria Callas should not be singing Verdi.
@@orientaldagger6920lol
I’m sorry, I think it’s funny that Villazon is positively commenting about the brightness and squillo of Tamagno’s sound. The only thing that would have been funnier is if it were Kaufmann saying it. Villazon way over darkens and is really struggling with his technique.
Regarding Tamagno's tempo - I thought about this a bit. It says "Allegro assai ritenuto", translating roughly to "very cheerful, held back". Doesn't sound like a particularly fast tempo, going by the words. On the wiki page for the metronome, it mentions Verdi as one of the critics, preferring to go by the words. Tamagno performed around 59 bpm (single beat). Has anyone seen the autograph of the score? Did Verdi give this 88 number?
Everyone knows the role of Otello is too big for Alagna too
I find it so strange that Tamagno’s vibrato is so pleasing to you. To me it sounds too much like a goat. Free maybe, but beautiful? Modern singers need a different technique because the opera houses and orchestras got bigger and bigger so voices need to be stronger to be heard .
What do you think about Antonio Paoli and his recordings as Otello?
Tamagno's voice was beautiful! I think a beautiful voice develops not only with practice, but with quiet confidence, and a modest realization that the art is a priority, not fame or the ego.
BTW - Can somebody out there tell me the name of the piece that the woman sings and men's choir sings behind her at the outro? The harmony makes me think of Heaven!
La Vergine Degli Angeli from Verdi’s La Forza del Destino
@@agnieszkajurlewicz8144 Thank you!
My teacher, considered a great American maestro, endeavored to eradicate ego in his students, and emphasized the musical truth in the written score. He was tough, but he made me a much better musician and pianist.
The voices heard are those of Rosa Ponselle and Ezio Pinza, from their 1928 Victor recording of “Vergine degli angeli.”
Zenatello and Martinelli are also great Otello's. Zenatello started as baritone but with real squillo
Of the two Giovannis, only Zenatello began as a baritone. Martinelli was always a tenor.
All of these are really very interesting, thank you! But I was wondering if you'd be interested in doing one on Debussy??
I have to ask is Tamagno's perceived fast Vibrato an artefact of the recording being old, or was vibrato sung like that back in the old day? Having said that the vibrato is precise and narrow which I do like, it is not as tiresome to the ear.
19:20 they use a tenor clef for the tenor line, which means C is on the fourth line from the bottom; so they put the 2 sharps on B and E???
Very interesting... what you think about Mario del Monaco's Otello?
I do wish she touched on about that. But then, I think Tamagno's singing is what Verdi would have wanted as stated in the title. Del Monaco's is slightly different as he utilizes a verismo or realistic style of opera singing
Del Monaco didn’t darken the voice as much as the more recent tenors and certainly had power, but he always used a very low larynx had a tendency to sing fortissimo all the time and wasn't very flexible, so it was hardly bel canto.
There are some singers who should never attempt this role.
Wide, wobbly vibrato also affects string players, especially cellists.
Interesting! How does it affect the string players? Intonation?
@@theoneandonlymagnum Not necessarily, but the wohwohwohwohwoh is extremely disconcerting.
@@oliviu-dorianconstantinesc288 hahaha i can imagine
I think the relationship with the composer is notable. BUT . . . there was no radio or tv. What there was was church. The darkness was in there. To contrast reality (life & church), opera gave light. And a lot of opera was in smaller houses. They've sacrificed spirt to capacity. At least, according to box office. I believe they should return to spirit, the audience is going to be listening . . . that's why they're there. They just have to care.
Has any frequency analysis, particularly of overtones, been done in an acoustic laboratory to identify precisely what this “darkening” of higher tones exactly consists of? I have to say that knowledge of physics actually can make a constructive contribution to all of the arts, whether it is singing, musical instrument sound production and reproduction, ballet, painting, sculpture and acting.
I’m not sure I understand the criticism of Jonas Kaufmann here. His “Esultate” sounded great! The lower G sounded comfortable. And, not only did the High B grace note sound great, he did it as written, unlike Tamagno.
@Charles Coleman. Kaufmann's voice is always a forced (i.e. fake) darkened sound. This causes unnecessary restriction throughout his range, from top to bottom. His "natural" voice was that of a beautiful lyric tenor. But, he learned to cover his voice in a very constricting way, to try and mimic a dramatic tenor, which he is not.
Charles you forgot the rule of being a proper nutty opera commenter on RUclips: If you’re famous, then you must suck! Read what some of these nuts say about Domingo and his technique.
By the way I love your channel, especially your analysis of the Bernstein Mass recordings.
Can you make a video on the Schmidt Das Buch mit Sieben Siegeln and it’s best recordings? I’ve been begging Hurwitz for months to do it but to no avail!
Little disappointed that you only compared Otellos- really would have loved to hear you compare Victor Maurel’s singing with modern baritones who sing Jago.
So, who was the opening tenor here?
Johan Botha (the late).
An excellent Otello you are not taking in account idea Francesco Merli... He had a sigillare technique to the One of tamagno but with a more "modern" Approach than Tamagno's
Very strange, new, and interesting -- but not surprising, even for amateur singers of today.
Of all the modern tenors you could have picked as an example for singing Otello with modern technique, why did you have to pick Kaufman? All of us know that he over-darkens really badly in his middle voice and that the role of Otello is too big for him. You could have picked someone more like Aleksanders Antonenko.
ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html tenor dramático Miguel Sánchez Moreno el mejor Esultate de todo el web, verdadero Otelo y aún activo. 😉
The problem with the modern singers is that they don't have squillo. You wouldn't be able to hear them in the theatre. Absolutely no mention of Mario Del Monaco, who is generally seen as the Otello. He had a dark voice, and the low larynx, and he had squillo for days, that is the chairoscuro technique, a mixture of lightness and darkness. Singers these days miss the lightness, which is the squillo. I guess the youtuber would not approve Mario Del Monaco. People do enjoy different types singing. I personally don't think dramatic singers should be too corned with flexibility or much nuance for example, it is not really a flexible voice. It is a voice more meant for strong and big dramatic expression and emotions. There are far more operas and singer who do concentrate on the more lyrical qualities. There is no need to apply that approach to dramatic roles as well.
What a painful sounding crack at the beginning
Domingo, Vickers , Kaufmann . Del Monaco and others have been outstanding Otellos, and I believe Verdi would have loved their performances !
@Mor Isil Wëindal Well, I wish we had more clowns like them . Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha !!!
@Mor Isil Wëindal ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html El más grande tenor dramático actualmente Miguel Sánchez Moreno. Viven en Italia. Está activo. Repertorio justo para su gran voz pesante, oscura. Auténtico Otello. El mejor Esultate de todo el web es ese interpretado magistralmente por el maestro Miguel Sánchez Moreno con la fuerza que requiere el personaje... posee la fuerza y temperamento Justo del personaje.
Vickers
All the dark unarticulatred voices of today, if I want to hear it with a now living tenor I woud rather hear it with Joseph Calleja. Too bad that Björling died before recording the whole opera.
@@ian1856 yeah but probably not live but a studio recording would not be bad.
Thank goodness Bjorling didn’t record Otello. His voice was not suited to it at all. Recording Turandot was already way past the size of voice, and of course Pagliacci and Radames as well.
@@ZENOBlAmusic sounds fine to me.
ruclips.net/video/ckjqJxSPGYI/видео.html
@@Revener666 Thanks for the link, that was very interesting! He is still sounding like a normal lyric tenor to me, a full lyric tenor. Lauri Volpi also had a lyrical type of voice, but his voice had more power then Björling's voice, he could get away with doing Otello. Björling had a great sound, he would likely sound good in whatever he sings, that doesn't mean everything is well suited to him, or that he should have sung everything.
Did Björling ever sung something with Robert Merrill live? Merrill had a massive voice, Richard Tucker, who had bigger voice then Björling almost struggled to keep up with Merrill live, in Invano Alvaro. The studio is the studio, Lanza also recorded sections from Otello, it doesn't mean anyone should believe that he would a good Otello.
According to Brigit Nilsson, Bjorling's voice was boosted a lot in their Turandot recording, so that he could match her. This is something that was often done with lyrical voices.
Big voices on the other hand, tend to sound, smaller on a recording.
But of course, people do have different taste, if you enjoy Björling in that duet, or the idea of him in Otello then obviously that is fine.
@@ZENOBlAmusic well I was only talking about recording the opera not perform it live on stage so.
To me opera roles does not have to be a certain voice type. As long as it is performed well.
I dont understand if Kaufmann darkens the voice or he is just a baritone leggero and pretends to play the tenor.
He’s a darkened muffled lyric or leggero tenor.
Who's the modern tenor singing the Otello finale?
That's Kristian Benedikt.
Tamagno singing a little too mannered for my taste. I prefer Martinelli's voice in Otello.
Well, Verdi seemed to like his Otello, so I guess it couldn't have been too bad!
As Rosa Ponselle said of Martinelli’s voice, it had to be heard in the opera house and not on studio recordings because his tones needed space around them to resonate fully. Comparing his RCA Victor studio recordings of excerpts from “Otello” with acetate recordings taken from Metropolitan Opera radio broadcasts of his Otello underscores Ponselle’s point.
10:00 so painful to watch and hear
Tamagno does not sound very heroic but the age of the recording might have a lot to do with that. Alagna is not a good comparison because I feel his voice is not suited to the role. Kaufman gets a lot of flak but usually delivers in a huge range of roles. Not sure if the older singers had to perform as often as the modern singer, one day in London and next week Milan and then New York. Pavarotti said it is impossible for the modern singer to give 100% all the time. They must be able to give 80% all the time. Kaufman certainly sounds more heroic than Tamagno but neither would be in the same league as Jon Vickers in his prime. Domingo also makes a great fist of the role.
He's considered to have had one of the biggest most heroic voices ever, but some of the richness might be lost in the old recordings. But it still sounds pretty exciting to me.
Kaufmann and Domingo !!!???
Tell me you’re joking…
They are BAD.
A poll was taken years ago asking many music and singing experts who was the greatest Tenor of the 20th century? Domingo came out top. In my opinion the singer that best exemplifies the modern technique is the American singer Lorraine Hunt Lieberson.
@@draganvidic2039 ruclips.net/video/lSR5PU8rJKE/видео.html El más grande tenor dramático actualmente Miguel Sánchez Moreno. Viven en Italia. Está activo. Repertorio justo para su gran voz pesante, oscura. Auténtico Otello. El mejor Esultate de todo el web es ese interpretado magistralmente por el maestro Miguel Sánchez Moreno con la fuerza que requiere el personaje... posee la fuerza y temperamento Justo del personaje
@@jeffbetts9420 Small limited voices
No one could sing the esulatate or ora e per sempre at the tempo Tamagno takes them and make it through a performance. And, as you said so yourself, Tamagno is FLAT in ora e per sempre. Singing in tune matters. The irony of this is that you gloss over all Tamagno’s flaws as artistic integrity, and that he, oh, SINGS THE WRONG WORD! It’s UN ALTRO bacio, not ancora un bacio.
The color of Tamagno’s voice is bright yes, but all anyone wants in an otello is the size of the voice, his was huge. Most of WHY it’s so bright is because he’s singing his F and F-sharp wide open which is a personal technique choice.
Everyone laments that Björling didn’t live long enough to sing Otello (or Calaf) on stage, but that voice is plenty bright.
Vickers, ALSO, didn’t have an overly dark sound and his Otello is also thought of as one of the great ones.
McCracken had a weird vibrato but not a dark sound, also a great Otello.
If you’re going to play the whole “im an expert I know best about what these composers wanted” on this stuff, like you’re doing on this channel, then you can’t cherry pick contemporary performers having a rough day like the very first esultate, and then talk about poor Maria Callas singing through everything and apologizing for her bad performances.
Be intellectually honest, and not a hypocrite.
Windgassen is another who had a bright sound and sang the role to great acclaim in Germany. And managed to do it in his 50’s and keep in tune…
If recognizing his singing a "wrong" word (that still conveys virtually the same meaning) is what you'd consider intellectual honesty, then consider being intellectually honest yourself as this "flaw" isn't nearly in the same ballpark as the inverted vibrato, or strained high notes of the other singers, some of which are even considered the best of their generation.
Nevertheless, it would have been interesting addressing Tamagno's caprino.
Are you being very intellectually honest then, or are you conveniently forgetting that Tamagno's was literally the voice chosen for the role by the composer?
@@MartyMusic777
First off, I NEVER criticized the tone or brightness of the voice. In fact, if you actually read what I wrote, I cited MULTIPLE singers with a brighter tone who sang the role, or parts of it, to critical acclaim in the 20th century.
Secondly, Otello premiered in 1887, at the age of 36-37, and these recordings are from 1903-1904, when he was 53-54 and a year away from dying, and, omg this might be a newsflash to someone as stupid as you clearly are based on your reading comprehension, but voices AGE and CHANGE (I know, a shock to completely and total dumbass like you), and sometimes things happen and they’re not in the same shape that they’re in at 53-54 as they are at 36-37.
So do me a favor, and try to not to question my intellectual honesty,
No one laments the fact that Bjorling never sang Otello or Turandot. 😂
He had a small voice, not suited for those roles, at all. He did not do well in Aida on stage. They had to boost the volume of his voice on the Turandot recording. The only singer that you can truly lament that did not perform Otello was Franco Corelli. Bjorling was a lyric tenor, he simply wasn’t suited to spinto and dramatic roles.
The old tenor was flat and had that tremolo or goat sounding vibrato. Yes Kaufmann over darkens his voice and Roberto pushes it to much but Tamango wasn't perfect there either.
im pretty sure they addressed that in the video??
Sorry, Tamagno hsa no breathing technique and no taste in interpreting...... He is mostly loud.
The role is really misunderstood in this video. Otello is not at all a "shouting" role , not a hero. Otello is a painful suffering poor creature. Thats what Verdi ment, when he said that "not every role is for every voice", as he had known Tamagno´s voice as mostly loud.
You can’t sing like that whilst dying of a heart condition without an excellent breathing technique.
come on. you don’t sound half as good