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How outsiders brought the Erdtree to the Lands Between | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 25
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- Опубликовано: 15 авг 2024
- Elden Ring Lore: Where did Marika come from? Who introduced the idea of sacred tree worship to the Lands Between? Join us as we reveal the secret origins of the Erdtree, Marika and the Numen, and what we will learn in the upcoming DLC.
#Elden Ring #EldenRingLore #shadowoftheerdtree #tarnishedarchaeologist
Gameplay footage/music credit: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware.
References:
@Kosmos_er
/ @kosmos_er
• Shadow of the Erdtree ...
Music credit:
Epitaph for Boletaria, Alex Roe
The Fight, The Hills of Attika, Assasins Creed
Altus, Capital, Ancestors, Ending, Elden Ring
Nameless Song, Dark Souls
Video Attributions:
Wheat seed germinating, Neil Bromhall
Mt. Fuji, 8K world
Pyramids, Drone Snap
Nineveh, ep 13. The Assyrians - Empire of Iron, Fall of Civilizations
Fields, The Quiet Mind
Mankind: The Story of All of Us: Birth of Farming, History
Persepolis, Amazing Places 4K
Nineveh, Fall of Civilizations
Southern Iraq, The Histocrat
Assyrian reliefs, V Documentaries
The Fall of Babylon (1919)
The Rings of Power. Amazon Video, 2022.
Photo Attributions:
Prisoners Nineveh date-palms, Marie-Lan Nguyen, Assyria artwork, ca. 640-620 BC
P1060872 Louvre Egypt (26e - 30e dynasties)
Samash Sun Tablet, Natritmeyer
Assyrian Relief from the Palace of Ashurnasirpal II, 879 BCE, Daderot
King Ashurnasirpal 865-860 BC. British Museum, Sanjar Alimov
Tree of Life, Near Eastern antiquities in the Brooklyn Museum, Rilievi in alabastro da palazzo di ashurnasirpal II a nimrud, albero sacro, 883-859, Sailko
Diagrams of Assyrian sacred trees by Dr E. Bonavia, 1888
Genie poppy Dur Sharrukin, Louvre, c. 715 BCE
Inanna, Adam Eastland
Ukemochi, Knightkamia
Demeter, The Conversation
Persephone, Heraklion Archaeological Museum, Michaël Martin
Ninnion Tablet, Eleusinian Mysteries, Marsyas
Venus of Hohle Fels, Ramessos
Demeter statue, D&Z Garden
Cuneiform, Mason, William Albert
Cuneiform tablet, Gavin collins
Fish God Dagon, Clark E Ridpath, 1912
Assyrian military campaign in southern Mesopotamia, horses and palm trees, 7th century BC, from Nineveh, Iraq. The British Museum.
Line art drawing of a galleon. Pearson Scott Foresman
Lachish Relief, British Museum.Photograph by Mike Peel (www.mikepeel.net).
Relief from the South-West Palace of Nineveh, Room XXVIII, c. 640-620 BC. Photo by “Zunkir”
Map of Númenor, Severuksen
Contents of the Video
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00:00 Intro
01:28 Marika and IRL Fertility Goddesses
07:47 Secrets of the DLC Trailer
16:18 Arrival of the Numen
25:01 Birth of Civilization
To add onto the Tolkien parallels, the only survivors of the Numenor cataclysm arrived in Middle-Earth on ships. They even brought a seedling of the White Tree of Numenor which symbolically represents the line of Elendil. Hence, one of the primary symbols of the kings of Gondor is this same White Tree.
Are the valarians based on numenor?
*Valyrian. For some reason i cannot view my prev comment to edit
@@SuperHongTayweeeell, actually Valyria is closer to Michael Moorcock's island nation of Melnibone from the Elric saga. Actually it's one of Martin's more flagrant acts of plagiarism.
@@kennethg9277 it's more than likely that GRRM just sorta amalgamated things lol
It's Atlantis bruh@@SuperHongTay
To add to what TA talked about in the end (I studied assyriology):
Remember that the Sumerian civilization is about 5000 years old. At that time, the Persian gulf likely reached further into the land and the south-east of Iraq was more fertile than it is even now (TA showed video of southern Iraq, which can be surprisingly swampy). Enki, the god of wisdom of whom Inanna "stole" the 'me's, as TA said (don't take this story too serious, it's not the one myth we have about this and it's not the major origin myth or something), resided in Eridu (along with Ur perhaps once coastal cities) and was lord of the Abzû, a subterranean fresh-water ocean. Enki is thus always portrayed with streams of water pouring out of his shoulders. Water from the rivers, the sea and the underground was especially important in Sumerian times in the far south.
The later Akkadians, Semites that spoke a Semitic language but adopted the Sumerian cuneiform script, came from the north (the earliest is Sargon/Sharrukin "shortly" before the early Babylonians), where the later Neo-Assyrians especially were much more fond of rainfall and storms (due to their environment; reflected in their gods). When you see depictions of these people, they look Semitic (lots of hair, long beards). When you see depictions of Sumerians, they not only are they much more often shaven, including on the head, they also often have curiously different facial features. Take on top what TA said, that Sumerian seems an isolated language, they DO seem like outsiders. There are speculations they have migrated from the Indus valley, and it's possible that happened by sea via the Persian gulf, which may be the reason why the earliest thriving cities were right at the gulf coast.
Do you have any recs for books or documentaries covering this stuff?
@@rainbowkrampus Unfortunately not on the top of my head. Been years since I studied it (switched to something else) and most of what I read was in German. If something comes to mind, I'll post it here.
yeah people overlook the geographical changes of the planet when they think about stuff - you can find wreckage of ships much further inland because low and behold, the ocean does recede, land does elevate etc
I think the elden ring depiction and form seen in farum azula are representative of the roots that grow first before a plant or tree. I think this is metaphoric by mizayki to explain that this is indeed a whole order and time before the coming of the first erdtree. Im operating off this thought and speculation from this point.
This could be someone we don't know, or it could be simply a young Marika.I believe that this is symbolic of the history of the change from twinbird to humoniod emperyan fated to be god-an enviable evolution.
I theorize that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was instead an emperor born in the time of Marika's first order, before the current Golen order. To be specific, I believe she was born in the time before the old tree was burned for the first time-before death was removed-the time of the ancient tree. What tarnished archeologist explains is what i think is first ordr established involving all cultures through tree birth and burial. The burial of the people who assimilated into the order. This order that i think the gloam eye queen burned.The gloam-eyed queen, in my opinion, is a part of a history that looms large in the shadow of the erdtree dlc, potentially elucidating the burning of the first tree and the culturals that we deemed blasphemous towards marika and her order. Maybe mesmer was selected to be her lord in this time to usher in a new age during marikas first tree order? Maybe this explains their shared similarities, iconography and godskin apostles aspects. shit what if mesmer was the first blossom/fruit of marikas theorized ancient tree explaining the statue u see of the women clutching a baby behind mesmer in his throne? Making him being gloam eye queen's lord not so weird. shit idk? this type of thinking is fun
Miyazaki is such a HACK!
What a time to be alive. DLC is right around the corner, and there’s a new tarnished archeologist video!
I love that even the most intellectual of Elden Ring content creators can't help but refer to the Land of Shadow as 'The Shadow Realm'. One of those 8 new weapon types is a YuGiOh duel disk for sure.
He crossed this nigga into the Shadow Realm 😂😂
"Realm" is a noun way more used in History and Archeology than in video games....
@@ChristmasLore yeah but it's funny yugioh hell
Using less words to say the same thing without being grammatically incorrect is a sign of a good speaker/writer.
Crazy how many cultural myths, stories, histories and characters one game can reference or nod to. And how much of it can fly over our heads while still bekng a great game
There's a sort of afterlife feel to the Lands Between. The rivers are kind of reflective of the Styx, in that they "brought" in the people who would so heavily change the Lands Between. Then there's the notion that Tarnished die in the other world (hence the opening art of the famous Tarnished at their deaths).
I always assumed it was "the land between" life and death
Miquella ascending to goodhood as god of "true death", ruling upon this Shadow realm, while the player character rules upon the land "above" , the land of the renewed Erdtree....
This dlc is full of possibilities...
There's also the numerous point of reference to Berserk 's Griffith in Miquella 's character....with a potential betrayal of Malenia in stove...?
Then there's my personal "Saint Trinity" theory, that Miquella will achieve goodhood, following in the footstep of her mother Marika, by achieving a Saint Trinity illustrated by himself, Miquella (androgenous/Child), St Tryna (female), and Mesmer (male), the same way It happened for Marika/Radagon, via a duality.
As I wrote, a whole new world of possibilities with new characters (Mesmer) or characters only hinted at in the main game (Miquella/St Tryna)
..St Tryna/ Saint Trinity, typical metaphor of sleep as death....:
Miquella achieving goodhood through Trinity, becoming a God of True Death in the Shadow realm (while the character player would rule on the land "above", the land of the Erdtree restored. ...)
(God Miquella "curing" their sister Malenia' red rot by offering her a true death, promise fullfiled, via what some would consider a betrayal - another Griffith/Miquella potential analogy).
Time to sleep. All these possibilities are getting to my mind:)
Every time this man uploads a video, the question of "can video games be art?"is met with a resounding "yes".
Man. It makes me feel warm and fuzzy inside that not to long ago I was watching your videos only get a couple hundred views and a handful of comments after a few days and now I see you get 4500 views and 120 comments in the first HOUR! Your hard work deserves all the respect TA!
All TA videos are so dense with information and formatted in a way that is both educational and entertaining and I’m so thankful for all the hard work that’s put into every video! The quality just keeps soaring!!
Agreed, it’s actually super cool stuff
Indeed, just look at the scenery in Nokron, Nosktela, the blood palace of Mogh and the Uld/Uhr ruins, we see a lot of huge tree husks. Those "pillars" are tree husks of different sizes. Same ting in the nameless eternal city. Clearly the numen were "farming" these trees for their benefits.
What a great time..
Charred thermos has reopened the channel and yours is getting bigger and bigger,
when by pure chance I found your first video on the home page with very few views I could only hope that this would happen🔥
Dude thats great tha he is back
Thanks for the news, I just subbed to the new channel. This is such a great time to be a fromsoft fan
Who is that? Are they an Elden Ring lore channel too?
@@multiverserift no, bloodborne
@@multiverserift He did an incredible series about Bloodborne in detail connecting it to early days of modern medicine. He deleted his channel some time ago now hi is back.
Come to think of it - The Golden order, Marikas empire, which has a strong military and martial culture... seems to possess no navy. While the Lands Between borders were fortified and defenders, it is peculiar that the Golden Order never got around to establishing a navy. Especially knowing the sea-faring history of Marika and the Numen. Other peoples and powers meanwhile do have sea faring ships at the very least: all the ship wrecks (which are likely not Golden Order naval craft but more arriving ships damaged to not be sea faring) and Roderika's arrival point to such. Which raises for me an interesting series of postulations.
As this makes me wonder - considering how much of a control freak Marika seemed to be with all her 5D chess games and plans, could it be the very reason the Golden Order did not set up a navy and was not a naval power was to ensure nobody under her dominion escaped the Lands Between? It would also prevent traitorous forces from going away and coming back with invasion forces, as well as heavily disincentivise trade with distant lands becoming common, making people be firmly dependent on Marika and the Erd Tree to sustain themselves. The Lands Betweens borders being something Marika wanted to lock down seems to suggest she really wanted to make sure nobody else from elsewhere came along and challenged her rule, making landings of other forces unlikely to be able to set up a beachhead. In a sense, the Lands Between was a prison for anyone living there, and Marika it's god-queen warden eternal.
Noting also here all the various fortresses and castles that seem to be looking out towards the sea in the southern regions of the Lands Between (the only place by its geography really suitable for a port, too!), from Limgrave all the way to Caelid. With relatively few fortresses or fortifications set up to be more inland. Stormveil castle is located geographically speaking in a spot where any force arriving by sea would need to get past it to head deeper inland. Even the various wizards who set up spires in those southern regions (including the Carrian Royal family's moon plateau in Liurnia) seem to have gotten in on the action of having the towers be vantage points to look towards the sea. Sure feels like we got a lot of interest from a lot of parties in keeping watch that-a-way.
It's interesting to also consider the banishment of the Tarnished in all of this. They had to leave somehow. And I doubt they just got teleported away. So likely, shipbuilding WAS something that could be done if Marika commanded it to happen. Regardless of my thoughts on the matter, there has to be some reason for why the Golden Order didn't seem to have a navy or for why the Lands between is lacking in any sea facing port cities. Then again, any naval port would need to be somewhere else than the capital because Leindells waterfront is locked in by the massive waterfalls at the Isolated Divine tower (and passing under Crumbling Farum Azula is no joy either if you look with a telescope from the Isolated divine tower), so perhaps Marika also didn't want to invest too many resources into building up another city that could mutiny and pose a threat?
Worth pointing out that Miquellas Haligtree is also water locked. Sure, it's hidden away up in the far, frigid North. But given time, the Haligtree could have become host to a naval port. And thus, if interest is there, a naval power city-state in its own right. The perks of living in a giant living tree fortress is that there is no shortage of lumber to use in ship building. Had things gone to *plan (unless Miquella did it all to get kidnapped), pruning and care taking of the Haligtree would have no doubt provided plentiful lumber, after all.
I think the nature of the Lands Between is still too much of a mystery to really say what's going on with these boats or naval capacity in general.
Apparently you can sail there. But also, at least some people have to die in order to return? Our arrival is particularly mysterious. We wake up in a chapel on a promontory in the ocean, disconnected from anything. The chapel seems to have been built there with the purpose of receiving new arrivals as it is called the Chapel of Anticipation.
Also there's a mysterious fog we know next to nothing about that apparently has to be crossed in order to enter the Lands Between. But there's no fog on the horizon.
My suspicion is that getting a boat to the Lands Between is not a trivial task and may require some degree of material investment that means there will never be any armadas sailing up to the coasts. At least, that is no longer a possibility. It may have been in the past.
@jessiesewell4076 I'm not sure that's what Marika wanted out of the tarnished. All but one of them actually comes back and does the thing they were supposed to do. All the rest, seemingly, lose the ability to see grace with time. With a failure rate that high, thriving and evolving seems like the last thing she'd have cared about.
I think she just needed one of them to be strong enough and that's about it. It's a lot like demonstrating your strength in order to link the fire. Becoming Elden Lord kinda sucks.
The Rusted Anchor item description says "While the Tarnished left the Lands Between with their Lord, one boat alone was said to have been left behind." So I guess the Tarnished left via boats. I've always wondered who was left behind.
@@Sotamursu90 Well, given that it grants Barbaric Roar, I can think of one person that sort of thing is associated with.
The tricky thing is that we're dealing with the unreliable narrator here. Any time there's a "said to" you should always be skeptical about the exact meaning being employed.
Excellent video, as always! This was such a great deep dive into the direct mythical inspiration for these characters. You do such a great job of informing people about the history of human culture so effectively through art analysis of Elden Ring. Its kind of wild that even in this video you have to spend time arguing how impactful real world history and myths have had influence on these games, your analysis proves that connection ore than enough.
Loved your interpretation on ships on the Obelisks and the ships in DLC trailer. That is totally possible, and I think one of two only possible choices. Never thought of the Numens bringing the knowledge of Erdtrees to other people. Perhaps that means Erdtree cultivation and possible the breeding of Empryeans took place to sustain these trees.
Would make for an interesting twist that maybe Marika wasn’t the only woman to trapped inside a tree.
You actually inspired me partially to make videos, and my next video coming out tomorrow actually gives you cheeky shout out and references your Imago Mundi video! I give my own interpretation on exactly what the obelisk's reliefs depict and the story they try to tell, and what happened during the Ancient Dynasty. It would be great if you gave it a watch if you have the interest or time.
If we partially inspired you, then our job is done. Looking forward to your video!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist wow thanks for the response! Hope you enjoy my video at least half as much as I enjoy yours!
Coming back to this after the DLC and you're not going to believe what features heavily in hornsent iconography: boats.
The "highly stylized tree" discussed at 29:20 also looks very much like the brand from "Berserk" that marks someone as a human sacrifice.
The Nox Swordstres/Monks/Maiden also have what looks to be a similar depiction of that Shape on the cape of their outfits!
Came to this channel to learn about elden ring history, learned way more than I knew about real world history.
Can you imagine what a vast amount of diverse knowledge the devs must have to create a world like this? Beautiful example of why we should educate children in more than just practical skills, knowledge not only makes us better people, but also allows us to create beautiful things.
Well said
If the Numen are like the Atlanteans and the Numenoreans, it is likely that the Land of the Numen was also destroyed by some cataclysmic event. They may have come to TLB fleeing from this catastrophe and found a culture they could manipulate/control. Maybe this is why they developed the technology to be able to have a sky underground?
It’s also a theme from Roman myth (Aeneas fleeing the fall of Troy) and Irish myth (too many examples to list in the Book of Invasions)
It also aligns with GRRM's stoy in ASOIAF of how The Targaryens migrated from their Essos to Westeros after there was a cataclysm in their civilization.
I have to wonder if the Numen were ALL a race of strictly women. Considering they are "long lived and seldom born" perhaps their society couldnt reproduce in the natural way. Could line up well with Tarnished theory that Tree Birth was something brought to TLB/Ancient Dynasty by them.
The comparison to Numenor is unavoidable. However, I have a new idea.
For most of the time the game has been out my opinion was that "denizens from another world" just meant people from another continent. After viewing the DLC trailer, my new hypothesis is that the Numen come from space. I bet we will visit those scuttled ships, finding no oars or sails, but instead some apparatus for channeling gravity magic. Marika would then have hidden her origin as an alien, along with everything else about the past.
The timeline I have in my head tells me the cataclysm is their banishment to the underground. I don't think by the time the Numen came to the lands between that these cities were underground yet. But I might be wrong.
I think that they saw it as "integrating" these cultures more than "manipulate" or "control" them.
"The land where merika first set foot" could be even more literal. She could have been born on those ships and the first time she touched land was in the lands between.
I guess this is all solved now as the stone coffins/ships in cerulean coast. All planted with ghost glovewort.
I'd go even further: the ships came with the Numen not from across the sea, but across the stars. The trailer ships look like were made of stone and the Numen themselves have an affinity for stone and metal. I wouldn't be surprised if they came from another dimension or another world, fleeing some cataclysm (if we go with the Atlantean/Numenorean parallel) and then colonized the original inhabitants of the Lands Between.
Please take a look at irish mythology and the pseudo-historical/mythological arrival of the Tuatha Dé Danann. It is incredibly similar to the Numens and Nox. A race of magic people arriving by boat and fog to Ireland, that at a later date get sent to live in the Otherworld, which is either beneath water or beneath the ground.
Babe wake up, it's another Tarnished Archaeologist video.
IM UO
Up*
I got a fresh cup too and some cake, I am ready ❤
Stop. This isn't funny.
@@agxryt seethe
One thing you didn’t touch on was the alternate scene to the boats on the obelisks. Some of the obelisks show a row of people carrying what appear to be death ritual spears in place of the boats arriving. I would assume its to show how things were before the arrival of the numen. We already know from the Winged Greathorn that the ancestral followers likely worshipped the Twinbird and its outer god. Aside from its description, you can even hear a bird chirping when you use its ash of war. The rows of people carrying death ritual spears are also visible within Deathrite Birds’ wings. I could go on forever about all of the ingame details regarding the Twinbird honestly. Worship of it involves allowing for a cycle of life and death which is tied to the nature of the crucible which was present at the time. Many different offshoots constantly vying for control of the root system but it wasnt until the numen arrived that cultivation of one single tree became a possibility. Which broke the cycle of life and death and allowed for the unnaturally long era of the Erdtree which TA has already talked at length about. I believe the Gloam-Eyed Queen was tasked by the Twinbird’s outer god to destroy the Erdtree and I guess kill Marika so as to restore the natural order of life and death. Again I could talk about all of this foreverrrr
while my theory on GE-Queen differ (i believe her to be Marika's mother, which doesn't hexclude your idea from being legit re killing but i think Marika's part in all of this is skewed), i am fully here with you that this video didn't touch on the possibility of certain rites having being established but adapted-amended by the NuMen. There was a set of worship hexisting and it got transmogrified by the culture and intentions of the visitors/occupiers/conquerors.
I find a flaw with the theory that GE queen was tasked by the twinbirds outter god, remember that the 2 figers designates empyreans, which work for the greter will, the embodiment of the erdtree, would be a contradiction in that case? also ca u tell em where to find those alternate scenes of the obelist where they hold dead ritual spears? never noticed those one i believe!!
I thoroughly adore your videos, I've been learning so much real archeology along the way, and it's been immensely helpful in my own worldbuilding and design work. Thank you for all the diligent effort that's put into these videos!
One small nitpick, I think the representation of ships is a departure, not an arrival. The rear sections of ships are depicted, which would suggest the ships are leaving from an place. Now the images are telling a story about a people who departed (possibly fled) from some other place, and arrived in the Lands Between to rebuild the civilization they had left.
Culturally this also makes sense, they are trying to keep the people and civilization together by giving and repeating a common origin story of coming from a land beyond.
That's my two cents.
I assume that the Land of Shadow is the place where Marika ascended to goodhood and that her way to the old Erdtree - the (probably) Cruicible of Life housing the Elden Ring initially - was one of bloodshed. And this path is probably filled with crimes that Miquella wants to learn about to figure out how to deal with all the afflictions of the Lands Between
I think it’s incredibly thematically fitting as well. We learn about Erdtree burial: a current practice to “honour” heroes of the Erdtree. Miquella himself is confused on how to create an Erdtree, but he knows it has something to do with Blood - hence why he uses his own empyrean blood to grow it.
Miquella’s plans failed. He knows the Erdtree requires blood, so ventured into the Land of Shadow to learn to what extent blood is required for Erdtree.
This is as far as we know in regard to Miquella’s motives right now. He’s searching for the true nature of the Birth of an Erdtree…but we don’t know if he’s following through with the sacrificial acts of Marika’s Erdtree birth, or trying to do something new. (I.e) - he’s either good or evil lol
When you mentioned which architecture the shadow lands fortress matched, I fist bumped and yelled “yes!” Lol
There are a TON of parallels between Marika, a young outsider who becomes a Warrior Queen and marries the leader of an outcast warrior tribe and GRRM’s own story with Danarys and Khal Drago
I wonder if the cataclysm that may have driven the Numen from their homes has anything to do with what happened to Farum Azula.
The boats we see in the DLC trailer are, rather curiously, mastless, and seem to be made from stone, and seem to have crashed in a high steppe plain littered with ethereal magic flowers. No shipwright in their right mind would ever make a sailing ship without sails, let alone from stone, which would just make the ship sink, unless they’re made from something like pumice, which is an incredibly frail material that is essentially just condensed volcanic ash. I think the Numen instead came from the sky.
As for the connection with Farum Azula’s culture, we know that it has been crumbling in the sky since time immemorial. However, I think that it is actually predated by an even older sky temple. While the ruin fragments we find scattered through Limgrave and Liurnia are definitely similar in design to Farum Azula, and feature the same Twinbird motif, the styles of architecture don’t quite match. Plus, while Farum Azula looks to be made from marble or some other white stone, the Limgrave ruins have an earthier, almost greenish tint to them. Furthermore, if we entertain the possibility that Farum Azula may have drifted from it’s original location, floating over the Southern end of TLB, we would expect to find ruin fragments from Liurnia all the way to Dragonbarrow. Yet these ruins further east are conspicuously absent.
I instead believe that there was likely another floating city that likely centered over Stormveil’s current location, and that this is the point from which the Numen descended. Perhaps Farum Azula was also part of this culture, and for one reason or another managed to stay more intact over time, or was perhaps built later by the Numen. Its architectural style is decidedly Greco-Roman, which if we follow the archaeological strata, makes it contemporaneous with the Numen settlements of Sellia, Lower Leyndell, and Ordina. It’s design philosophy is also more ornate than the ruin fragments, implying its construction some time after that of the nameless sky temple
There kind of are two distinct types of fallen ruins, aren't there? I've also been of the opinion that there was something in the sky besides Farum Azula, but haven't been able to piece together anything concrete yet.
@@Deadgye I’ve had this notion basically since the game came out. Nothing in the game explicitly says the ruin fragments came from Farum Azula. However, there is no doubt a cultural connection between the two, given the Twinbird imagery, as well as a random beastman hanging out in Limgrave
If there used to be many 'blessing givers' as is depicted on the relief, and Marika used to be one of them, and they were the numen political/religious leaders due to this power, it could be that Mesmer did Marikas dirty work burning the trees of the other blessing givers taking their sources of power and leaving her as the one leader of the new world order/religion. Could be a secret though and that's why Mesmer is locked away, and also why everything was in opposition to the Erdtree at first (because they were outraged that the Erdtrees followers had burned all the other great blessing trees)
Thank you for your time and effort in once again bringing us another slice of comfortable media. Your efforts to make a calming, instructive, relaxing historical juxtaposition between the game and its inspiration is the epitome of fandom. Thank you.
What a great comment, thank you!
This is by far the best fromsoft lore channel. I watched one and knew I had to watch every one of your videos. From soft needs to offer you a job lol
That AC odyssey intro 👌 😍
*Technically* it's Ezio's theme.
It is the version that was made for AC Odyssey, but it's not specific to Odyssey, at all.
Thank you, I was trying to pin down why it was so familiar...
Yeah I noticed he uses some of AC Odyssey’s ost from time to time in his vids. Not really surprising tho considering that game and ac origins both have a Discovery Tour mode. 😂 bet he gobbled that up as a history buff.
I am still waiting on TA to delve into the Four Belfies, because I feel like the imagery there is really unique within the game.
This got to be the most engaging part of the lore for me and the key to the greater story of the game. Can't wait for the DLC
the Uld, Numen and Crucible lore is some of the most intriguing parts of a game ever. I basically live in Siofra.
Without getting ahead of myself, I have reason to believe that the Expansion trailer and Miyazaki interviews point towards the possible fact that all these aspects will be getting further lore
I said this on a Moxie Watts video but it's so true for the game and for some of the great points you brought up about the pulled symbolism of Mesopotamian Babylon.
Whether it's Miyazaki or someone on his art team but there is a depth of art history that has become their unmistakable signature.
Their games feel like Monty Python style animations made out of cut-outs form an art history text book. Their games are collage-like in that regard.
To me your average Miyazaki game is the game equivalent of taking a urinal, signing it, "R. Mutt," and naming it fountain. In other words they're the essence of art.
This video intro is so freaking hype!! I started looking into this and decided it was definitely a different topic. I am so glad you covered this!
26:50 TA COOKING
I neeeeeeeed more lol next video when
@moxiewatts 1 hour ago. Huge fan btw, a content creator who is also a phenomenal artist is very rewarding to all of us ruclips.net/video/_uwohcsBVHM/видео.htmlsi=34OkEIej5-CEObRy
The song is from assassin's Creed. It's dope
29:30 I think this explains why Golden seeds Cann be found in the Eternal cities
Plus those huge tree like husks that can be seen
Glad this touches on Marika's origin. For all we know of her, she still feels like a mystery. Hoping for some clarification on how exactly Marika became the Eternal!
I’m happy we’ll probably learn that. Michael Zaki said that the Land of Shadow is where she became a god.
the best part of these videos is, yes I learn something about the lands between, but mainly I am inspired to go learn history and myths fromt he real world, with a renowed instrest. thak you
that's the true goal of the channel :)
TA UPLOAD LETS GO
Sumerian mythological connotations make for an interesting explanation for Godwin’s body morphing into something aquatically chthonic looking.
Also, has anyone explored the timeline of Rennala being the elusive Gloam Eyed Queen? With the death not being literal, but her current fugue/mind shattered state?
@@BlueberryBatter hardly. The most obvious answer is the right one: Melina is the Gloan-Eyed Queen. Not the same one murdered by Maliketh, but a reincarnation though the Erdtree. Her purpose was to burn the Erdtree and pave the way for death to be restored to the natural order. Why would Marika want death to be restored? So the Elden Beast, a literal manifestation of the Greater WIll, could be killed, freeing the Lands Between from its influence. As a Heretical Goddess her plans were stopped by Radagon, a fundamentalist, a literal weapon of the Greater Will.
Does anyone else find it odd that Melina is also a style of Engagement ring?
Melina gives the Tarnished Torrents whistle, which is in ring shape with stepped sides, not unlike the Melina Engagement ring style...and says:
"I propose to you...an accord..."
Our Tarnished, i believe, is Marikas champion and are found by her proxy (Melina) who is trying to procure and sneak her chosen champion under the radar of the greater will. I believe she does this by hiding them(us) within 'grace'. Think of the guidance of grace as a broadcast signal and Marika is using it to hide and send her own s.o.s.
Melina, our 'recruiter', chooses us as their last hope, and so a marriage of purpose is proposed. Melina helps lead the tarnished to, and around, the greater will.
I think this would also explain why Sir Gideon has no info on Melina(who i believe is a clone of Marika, or fraction of her soul like how Milicent is Melanias pride), explains how she could have been burned before...
and why Godfreys grace points to the Tarnished and vice versa, if Godfrey wants the throne for might and power and not for Marika, is aligned with the greater wills grace...and our tarnished; chosen thru the grace by Marika, leads us toward her goals.
I dunno
More TA. Always so excited to see that notification. Best ER analysis out there
Years of playing this game and I never considered that “Numen” is a portmanteau and historical allusion to the “new men” that arrived in the lands between
Wow! Those are beyond a doubt the ship sterns we see in the DLC trailer. It’s weird how we don’t see the bow of these ships. Great find!
21:30 Oh my god I can't believe I never made the connection between the Ansel and Siofra rivers being parallels to the Tigris and Euphrates...
Ready for some good old tarnished archeology
Love your videos man
There's a Japanese anime called the 12 kingdoms. In this world, all babies are born, not of a mother's womb, but from special divine trees. Perhaps the Numen brought with them the secrets of growing similar life giving trees?
These are the videos I look forward to the most on RUclips. Love your work! Thank you!
If these ships are of Numen origin they may have actually sailed on the primeval current than the watery seas. Because their appearance is slightly alien compared to anything familiar and if I'm not mistaken the Japanese text about the origin of Numen can be translated as "outer world" so if outer gods are celestial then their world could also be from high above. Could explain why the Eternal Cities are so attuned with the stars.
Another wonderful lore video! Keep up the great work, I’m excited to hear more of your ideas!
Dude mad respect for that. Assassin's creed music in the beginning. I really like that❤
Right? Worlds are colliding!
My first thought seeing this video was how bold it is of TA to publish this before we even have the DLC to study. About 10 minutes in, and I am now convinced how appropriate and special your kind of analysis is. Of course we ought to analyze these details before diving in!
I don’t know if it’s something that’s well known in the community, but it just sort of clicked that “Numen” could be a corruption of “New Men.”
Because the Numen look so different from the typical inhabitant of the Lands Between, they’d stand out as being from another land very obviously.
“Ah, look there! It’s one of those new men!”
you deserve way more subscribers your videos are just on a different level.
I am grateful this will have even MORE context to look back on then SotET comes
Not even through the ads and I’m already liking. Always excited to see a new video.
This may be the most compelling theory about this whole world I've heard yet!
Late to comment this but GRRM literally has two different advanced civs known for sailing into more primitive lands. The Andals invaded Westeros and pushed back the First Men who lacked the hard steel the Andals did, and Aegon Targaryen invaded with their powerful dragons when Valyria, basically Atlantis, was befelled by its great Doom.
The act of clicking a new TA upload has by now been relegated to spinal reflexes
I’m 38 seconds in, and seeing Ancient Mesopotamia and a tree of life has me stoked. Been waiting a looooong time to see it in a TA video.
This was amazing, thank you. No game has captivated me like Elden Ring.
I am so ready for the DLC to drop and for more lore to come with it!!
What is the most famous and the biggest ship of the ancient world? The Ark of Noah.
What if these Numen ships were built to survive a deluge?
Edit: Hell I even forgot the Numen-Numenor correlation.
so happy a channnel like yours exists
I'd like to point out something you're missing about the Numen.
Although it's a possibility, as the themes fit, the term may indeed be a reference to Tolkien's Numenor, but there's another more probable explanation to my eyes.
"Numen" is a Latin word, which has been given a specific meaning by theologian Rudolf Otto in his 1917 book "Das Heilige" ("The Holy"). To him, and others after him, "Numen" is the specific feeling of the holy, of something sublime and greater than you, once you strip a religious experience from everything worldly.
(Side note : notice how similar "Heilig", the german word for Holy, is similar to "Halig" in Haligtree.)
The best argument for Elden ring's "Numen" being a reference to Otto's "Numen", is that the adjective "Numinous" that is derived from it describes an object (or setting, or overall experience) that provides a feeling of divine, of holyness, of transcendental. The opposite of "Ominous", which gives a feeling of dread and doom.
Which means "Numen" is the opposite of "Omen". And Omens in Elden Ring are specifically Numens born "wrong" by the Golden Order's standards.
I don't know if I can share links here, but you can find some info on wikipedia's page for "Numinous", which should provide an overview for you.
Anyway, great video as always! Take care.
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(I mostly know this stuff from my SO's thesis, where they have a whole chapter talking about numen and the Numinous. It's in French though, so it might not be the best source for you.)
Halig is old english for holy and straight up came from similar old german word as well.
Omens are never, not even once specified to be Numen.
YES THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR WORK.
Thank you for another exciting video! A wait for a new one begins
We all recognized the iconic Assassin's Creed music in this intro. Freakin love it. Love the video as always my guy. Fascinating stuff.
I'm only half-way through watching this video so far, but I wanted to pause and say that so far this is an excellent video, one of Tarnished Archeologist's best, and it more than makes up for the foolhardy video that was their initial DLC reaction video.
It was the multiple references to videos from other Creators that really made me love this video in particular, which I suppose indicates that hyper-analyzing in-game features doesn't make your videos good as much as listing lots of Sources in detail and informing your viewers how to learn more.
It's a difference between: "Here is this interesting thing, and here is what I think that thing means." versus "Here are some interesting things and what they could mean, and also here is what a bunch of other smart people think this stuff means too.". It's a subtle difference, but the difference between Charisma and Arrogance is subtle as well.
"Holistic" is a great word BTW. Tarnished Archeologist's best videos are the ones that offer especially holistic views.
The 2nd to last register, which can be seen at the 12:07, i was theorizing, could show a type of "child sacrifice."
That the sacrifice of "youth" is an element needed for the growth of an Erdtree. Or was part of a sacrifice at the Gates of Divinity.
Thinking about the DLC, and the Trinity aspect between Greater Will, Metyr, and Marka and the ability to create life gives me Christian Gnostic vibes.
And the Horned race building a tower of Babel to the Gods.
Bloodborne is also my favorite
I get so hyped for your videos! I am not a big fan of history abd architecture but i could sit here and learn ftom you all day
The Assassin’s Creed intro, from the golden age, already has me excited! AC was the first franchise that showed me how researched and deep a game could be.
I can't wait for the DLC to come out, and my dumb brain to miss everything.
'That ruble you walked in the hall was actually from.... and it being there suggests that..... and the art of you simply walking over it means that.....'
Yeah. I can't wait for videos to explain all those tiny details I completely miss.
If I’ve realized one thing from GRRM writing it’s that a lot of in universe lore and legends are a lot more simple than they seem at first even words being twisted through the ages.
Numen=New Men
I think the only thing I would add is that the first panel is more akin to a departure of the ships, since we are seeing them from behind. Don't know if that changes much...
Fuuuck yesss cant wait for the dlcccc
By Marika!
Your video about lands between is always beyond my imagination!
I noticed something abt tbe Ancestor Obelisks. The third depiction could possibly be the creation of the Albinaurics. (My timing lore-wise may be off) Similar to the creation of Dwarves in Tolkiens universe. Except this one failed lol.
I can't stop laughing at the historical bit of Innana stealing from Enki and the visuals on screen is a statue of Innana doing the CAUGHT twitch emote
Mysterious fish people bestowing new technology on a people?
Now where have I heard that one before...?
If the thematic device holds true, I suspect these may have been less "gifts" and more "things taken by force". Which, as far as my read on Marika's history goes, would be right in line with expectation.
Still though. I continue to find it damn odd that dragons don't figure into these stele and bas reliefs more/at all. Where are my dragons?
I think the “Age before the Erdtree” is meant to reflect the “pre-historic era” of our world.
Dragons preceded even the numen and the Uld culture, when the primary inhabitants were beasts instead of humanoids.
The history of Faram Azula is the Oldest in the entire game (as shown by Dragon reliefs being praised by the Beasts), older than uld and numen, but Marika thought it fit to incorporate Faram Azula into today’s society as well. Which means that there was something about the Eternal Cities, Numen culture and Uld history that Marika thought to be appropriate to hide under the world.
I feel like THAT is what the dlc will uncover.. just what exactly is the reason why Numens and Uld weren’t praised to the same stature as something like Faram Azula
WAKE UP BABE, NEW TARNISHED ARCHEOLOGIST JUST DROPPED
SHUT UP WITH THIS DEAD MEME.
The assasins creed odyssey music was not something I expected. Fits perfectly tho
I parsed through a lot of history channels on youtube since you popped up here, and I try to put my finger on the question, why your content is so appealing to me.
I think it's the intertwining of actual history facts and science, mythological discussions and viewpoints and the so well crafted Fromsoft worlds.
I want more of this.
I always loved mythology, and learning about their historical context adds such a massive layer of understanding. I read a book about the historical research of Jesus, and it totally blew my mind. The (as far as we can access or extrapolate it) facts behind the myth.
Recently, watching a video about the Assyrian Empire, I had such a moment. The Assyrians wanted to siege Jerusalem. But just before they could triumph they...kinda died. Maybe because of a plague. Rats, Mice, Illness.
So from the Jerusalem viewpoint it looks like OF COURSE their god sent a plague to their enemies to protect them. If I were in Jerusalem, I would have cheered for Jahweh personally. This kind of event shapes myths.
I want that. I want education, stories, facts and context about peoples, their Empires, their gods, their historical facts. Your piece about Darius' stone inscriptions and the parallels, I love it.
You do this with Fromsoft worlds, and always link it to templates you find, inspiration, stories, people and events. You CAN do it because the Fromsoft worlds are so carefully and deeply crafted. Thank you for that!
Please never stop. Also, if you can recommend more channels or videos about myths and historic events, please share.
Incredible insight, as always.
Don't you think the Numen were worshiped, rather than imitated ? For the Ancient Dynasty to have multiple stelae recounting the Numen's coming as you would do for divine beings, as well as erecting a gigantic statue to either the idea of the Numen's most forefront gift (the sapling) or in reverence to their most forefront monarch at the time, screams to me awe rather than collaboration.
Both understandings are not that opposed to one another, but given Marika's rather quick "canonization" into the realm of the divine, she must have already been of "godly" stock in the eyes of the Ancients, as her people could also have been, given the many examples of commemorations you so wonderfully presented here.
The book “Sapiens” presents an angle that humans didn’t manipulate plants and animals into domestication. They have learned and evolved to have us break our backs in order to cater to their every need, massively increasing plant success rates and animal life expectancy - huge success for their DNA in the game of life.
There are also novels and research papers based on other Hominid research that Homo Sapiens are just the "receivers" of knowledge and technology following a cataclysmic event where Sapiens often lived near Sea level while other hominids generally are found predominantly and gor tens of thousands of years or more preferred higher vantage points after similar extinction level events that we have found occurred in the fossil record. One great instance is Homo Neanderthalensis seem to have made reusable handle moulds for high-ochre resins for making tool handles at least 50,000 years before humans seem to have managed their tool use to anything other than primitive levels, and they had stone and obsidian toolmaking qualities that sometimes exceed anything that societies of Sapiens have managed. If tool use and socialization techniques were being passed from the Neanderthals to us, its possible domesticated animals from thwir communities started picking us to domesticate them either out of survival instinct as the other groups disappeared (however you explain that) or w/e.
The truth is probably nestled in-between those two narratives, plant and animal domestication formed an evolutionary self-reinforcing feedback loop where all species benefited.
Love your videos so much. I have only one friend in real life who I can watch this with and who appreciates the complexity, richness in history, great stories & awe inspiring facts of life.
You're my favourite channel. Thank you so much for being who you are
another banger. Thank you so much for all the hard work!
When talking about the Sumerians, I kept hearing the Ancient Aliens (or whatever Hancock's show is called) theme. Lol.
The name of the Lands Between made me think of the Gray Lands in Tolkien, we can only imagine how people live there, away from all mortality. Tolkien was also someone who believed in the ages philosophy, that things are meant to change. Malenia's affliction probably only had a chance to flourish because Marika stagnated things to that point.
Wonderful video! I always learn something new about ancient history watching your videos, and love to see their parallels in the game.
something that comes to mind is: dualism and observance of a binary isn’t a part of all our seed sewing siblings 💜 7:20 - 9:20 so i now have a brain worm - worse to an unleaving theme song lol; though it wasn’t required for analysis, it’s now a well of intrigue for me. ty
From the first time I heard you discuss the idea that the numen weren’t native to the Lands-Between, I’ve not been able to get past the fact the new people are called… “New Men”. Like, it’s right there. Why hadn’t I thought of that beforehand?
Love the assassin's creed music in the beginning! Chef's kiss 🤌
My theory is that Marika is Elden Ring's Persephone analogue. Goddess of Death, Fertility, and psychopomp. Originally the Gloam-Eyed Queen, she was brought to heel by Maliketh and became devoted to the Golden Order's Age of Bounteous Life.
yup. Everything you say here is spot on in my headcanon. I’ve had that thought for a while… the final nail in the coffin for me was that the Gloam Eyed Queen’s rune was the *Rune of Death* and Marika’s rune was the *Rune of Life* . Both runes are visually and thematically polar opposites of one another. I see it less as Marika and Gloam Queen being rivals, but more as Marika went through a strict character arc with Maliketh involved
@@Odin_Oracle Also, take a look at Marika's statue in the opening cinematic of Elden Ring at roughly 2:15. Note her posture. She's making the sign of the Rune of Death, and her chapel is a mausoleum.
I may be off on this one, but additionally to me, Marika's garb in the mausoleum scene appears similar to the Deathbed Dress.
What I want to know is the relationship between the Numen and the Ancient Dynasty civilization. Were Numen colonizers, and the Ancient Dynasty the local people? Or something else altogether?
Honestly, with Archaeologist's voice, his musical selection, and the visuals in his videos, I would not be surprised if I saw his stuff in an actual museum.
I would recognize that intro song anywhere, the Expo trilogy is goated and you sir are a man of culture.
Can't wait for the video on the stone coffins...
I 100% thought that 26:10 would go into the Godskin apostacy.
Fantastic video guys