the lands between being somehow "suspended" or "resting on top " of those structures actually makes even more sense when we take into consideration the multiple cities that suddenly got swallowed by the earth.
I've always loved the idea of a civilization so old that the earth has moved around their ruins and their structures are older than the stone around them.
This is why I love ds2 and hate ds3. In ds2, so much time has passed since ds1 (which are confirmed to be in the same location) that even the entire geology of the place changed completely. Then along comes ds3 which is claimed to be eons and eons after ds2, and some places still resemble ds1...
@@meyes1098nah i mean, i enjoyed ds3 for how older structures were cannibalized by other civilizations. Just wish that was done better, somehow integrating parts of drangleic and lothric better than just copypasting an entire area over.
@@meyes1098 what? wasnt drangelic always confirmed to be a different part of the world, or am I missing somethng? even if it was the same part though, having Lordran show up again in ds3 ties everything back to its theme of cycles (the world went so far as to revert back to its ancient state), so i dont see why as a ds2 fan it's world is a bad thing
@@teenageboyhormonalrage Because the world is not perfectly cyclic (new game plus isn't canon xD). This is perfectly exemplified with ds2's world, since it's implied to be in the same spot (the only thing to contradict this was some spokesperson saying that "ds2 is on the other side" or some stuff like that, like 3 months into development, which isn't relevant anymore). The thing is, in dark souls 2, so much time has passed, an incredible amount of time, that even the geography itself changed (it's now an island, there's mountains everywhere, etc.), and the names of the old gods were all but forgotten. Heck, so much time passed that even the kindling of the flame itself corroded and devolved into a mere concept (the throne of want). And then ds3 comes along and literally ruins all of this, because they wanted fan service... Ds3 makes literally 0 sense, in the context of ds2 being before it. It only makes sense if ds2 is far, far in the future, way past ds3.
Tremendously well-done. If you had told me twenty years ago I would be enamored with archeology videos of a virtual world, I would have called you crazy, but here we are.
@@ALL4NTHINGthe lore of FromSoft games have always been this good just takes some passion and to find it. Takes a really good story teller and a good mind to figure out the insane world and mind of Miyazaki. I wish Miyazaki would write a book and I also wish he would let Martin publish whatever he wrote for Elden ring would love to see the contrast with what Miyazaki used and didn’t and how he changed the characters from normal people into what we know them as
before T.A i didnt respect the wordbuilding of eldenring so didnt look hard for sophistication or how itd make sense. was very dismissive of it as generic fantasy things. but its quite intricate if u give it the time of day
It would make sense that the second meteor impact that wiped out the giants and led to the creation of the great tree is the same meteor that carried the Elden Beast, the golden star.
One possible issue here is the fact that the Divine Towers do not seem to be built to the scale of the Ancient Giants. Even the Fire Giant and Golems seems too big for the areas at the top. The Towers very clearly seem to be made to be entered and used by people our size.
there’s also a possibility that a new giant may be smaller in scale than those that have lived for a while? the ancient giants seem massive, while the fire giant and giants from the age of fire are smaller, but what you’d probably consider “medium” from an ER giant. giants also have an unbelievable lifespan in ER so the ancient giants may have built them when they were able to use them? idk man
This was my thought the whole video and I'm annoyed that it was never addressed. It's hardly a detail Fromsoft wouldn't have considered, given they made Anor Londo.
The song in the beginning is a Swedish lullaby about wolves, their puppies and hunger. The wolf howls in the forest and the singer sings to the wolf to never come close. For it will never get its paws on his/her child(the one listening to the lullaby).
I was working and decided to turn this video on to listen in the background. Then I stopped typing and was like “wait I understand this one” 😂 Definitely a nice surprise!
Sometimes I wonder if the residents of The Lands Between have seen their new Elden Lord just walking around and sitting in places of presumed historical importance.
It certainly fits in. The "subverted hyperbole" (or "things being unexpectedly literal", like how "the two fingers" are not a honorific title but are actual disembodied fingers, etc.) is kind of a running theme with ER that crops up everywhere. At this point, I half-expect the rain that falls on the "Weeping peninsula" to actually be some eldritch being's tears.
Do we have any comparisons of the scale between these Ancient Giants and their architecture? Their remains seen too big to physically use the architecture being attributed to them, like the Divine Towers.
heh, most open world game are technically "scaled" and they technically can't match in-game and lore size in most games, so the building and giant size most likely would not match. but concidering that the pc measure around 5'6/1,6 generally in from games, is aprox dead giant's eye height and a human eye is around 35mm on height; we can use this info to get their aprox sizewith any giant size calculator, which in this case is 78 meters aprox. honesty with that size I also doubt they could use the building, tower or the golem that are atribute to them, tho they smaller size relatives could had, like the trolls.
If we use the reliquification theory, it's very possible that what we see is only the very, very tops of these structures, and those tops were purely decorative. The Divine Tower of Caelid extends far deeper than we're allowed to go down it, and where we can get to is almost down to the Eternal Cities.
Perhaps built by giants but utilized by their lords. Specifically the Onyx and Alabaster lords. They appeared with the meteorites and use gravity magic. You can still find one hanging out on a meteorite in the sealed tunnel by Leyndell, encircled by the same architecture seen on tops of the towers.
The biggest giants could have been an artificial species meant for construction or as physical vessels for the Fell God. It's clear in the game that power (divine or otherwise) can cause an increase in a creature's size.
I belive I have already said it, but I will do so again: The attention to detail the works of this channel have is not to be found on any other Elden-ring-lore-channel and the unique perspective you offer to solve so many questions is astonishing. Please continue what you are doing until the day I cease to exist.
A small detail that wasn't mentioned in the video is that the smithing stones 1 and 2 have the same speckled appearance as the meteorites in the impact craters and Divine Towers, which seems to imply to me that a lot of the metal in the lands between ultimately comes from meteorites.
Many of the caves (maybe all of them?) end with a room housing a sunken meteorite. If the meteorites did indeed bring about smithing, then it would make sense that the mines we see throughout the lands between are harvesting smithing stones from those meteorites. just a connection I realize wasn’t made explicit in the video.
@@Its_a_bad_ideaAnd the fact that so many of these meteorites can be found buried deep underground lends credence to a lot of the ideas put forward in this video
@@Ollybollyk is that description not only referencing the ancient dragon smithing stone? the others have varying descriptions, but 1-4 are confirmed to be mined from underground.
@@Ollybollyk The ancient dragon smithing stones are explicitly the scales of dragons, yes. But the more common ones are just bits of metal found underground
This man went from small Chanel to massive legend in almost no time. I’m just so happy and lucky to be able to see it happen from the ground up. Amazing work as always and thank you for the video!
The motif of a large meteor surrounded by several smaller meteors reminds me a lot of elden stars, and also of Radahn's meteor. The builder's civilization and god born from meteorite and ended by meteorite. The ancient dragon's worship of the greater will born from a meteorite, and farum azula destroyed and cast out of time by a meteorite. Even Sellia, part of a civilization worshiping the stars, fated to be destroyed by a meteor before Radahn challenged that fate and stopped it, but the meteor still has to fall for the age of stars to begin. Just some thoughts.
Seriously though, you mentioned the tower of Babel and it makes me wonder if there was a similar scenario there that drove the cataclysm. Like, they towers were created to try to summon more meteors but they summoned too many and maybe that caused the end of their world?
You could be right. It makes sense when you consider the modern starcallers. Sure they don't look for meteors for metal ore but for residual gravity magic and they are looked down on and considered desperate just like "faux sorcery" users that don't use reusable high quality glintstones mounted on staffs. However they have a functional way of gathering and making single use gravity magic catalysts. Their methodology seems to be to look for and mine meteors but they also seem to pray to and for more meteor impacts. If we suppose that ancient starcallers where much stronger maybe the onyx and alabaster lords or their ancestors where the starcaller caste of an ancient giant civilisation and their mistakes caused the meteor swarm that ended their civilisation. One thing that I really found intressting about the onyx and alabaster lords is how many of their powers seem to be opposites. An onyx lord can draw down meteors like in the meteor spell and repel gravity from their proximity like in the onyx lords repulsion weapon art. An alabaster lord on the other hand can lift stones telekineticaly and throw them but also draw in local gravity with alabaster lords pull the stronger version of gravitas weapon art. In game we can learn much more alabaster style gravity magic since it was mastered and spread by Radahn. Radahn fights like an alabaster lord. His swords draws people in with localised gravity and all his projectile gravity attacks where lifted from the ground: his meteor phalanx is drawn from the ground like rock sling, his arrows are fired from his bow on the ground and himself as a meteor is lifted from the ground before he falls back down. If Radahn as the pinacle of alabaster gravity magic can stop the stars and prevent meteors from falling then maybe an ancient master of onyx gravity magic could greatly accelerate the falls of Meteors. Imagine the potential tragedy if there is only an onyx master that can cause meteor swarm impacts but no powerfull enough alabaster master that can stop them.
@@simonwahlen7150 I really love this theory and was going down a similar rabbit hole after watching this video. Those Lords risen from the fall of meteor are much more important to understanding the Lands between's history than many realize.
This really made a lot of sense to me, thanks for the theory. They put a bunch of dense meteorites with high gravitational pull high up in the hopes to make stars (meteorite) rain down more often; most likely not realizing that gravity is not a force, but a curvature of spacetime capable of summoning beings from other dimension/world. My theory is before this mess, the Lands Between were fine with no gods and whatnot; but after Elden Beast, and possibly even more Onyx along with Alabaster lords or other celestial beings got summoned (causing even more gravity fuckery), Outer Gods became able to influence LB as spacetime itself weakens LB's boundary (what Melina refers to as "the fog" so to speak). This might really put into perspective as to why Radahn stopped the movement of the stars; not only was he attempting to eternally preserve the Golden Order, he was also trying to restrict the Outer God's influence.
@@simonwahlen7150 Also note that in the divine towers we get these weird white and black misty energy things floating in the air around the elevators. Could explain the fundamental mechanism of how the elevators rise and fall using the same principles as the onyx and alabaster lords.
Fun fact about Stonehenge is it may be even older than currently accepted, the original circle is theorized to have been wooden since they've found microscopic materials associated with ancient wood in a circular ditch around Stonehenge, and the fact other henges (some of them even older than Stonehenge) have been found with genuine evidence of wood being the original material used.
That's an interesting theory and makes a lot of sense. The culture that made the henges probably would have started with smaller, more easy to make versions. Then during the height of their prosperity, the Stonehenge was created as a magnum opus version of the older originals. Then by our time, the wooden originals have long since rotted away and disappeared.
That seems like a stretch to me. Just because there's wood, particularly in the ditch, doesn't mean that wood was used to build a wooden version of the structure. Archeologists do this all the time. They'll find organic material next to a stone structure, and assume the date of that material corresponds to the date the structure was built. In reality, all that means is the site was occupied at that time. I do think Stonehenge is older than currently accepted, but for different reasons. If the people at Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe were able to build those structures at those times, then we have to rethink what ancient people were capable of.
As I work my way through your videos, it’s dawned on me: Miyazaki and those he trusts with his games must be fantastic students of history. Their love of humanity, even our flaws, is so profoundly apparent in the care taken in the expression of the games they make for us, and very clearly themselves, as well. I hope he watches these videos. I hope he knows how much these games mean to people.
Tarnished Archeologist has become one of my favorite Elden Ring content creators. Every video has fantastic production quality and are so well thought out. Watching your videos makes me feel like I’m sitting down for a college level lecture. Thank you for such excellent content.
I can't tell you how much more you made me appreciate Elden Ring. I was already stopping in my tracks admiring its beauty and detail before I found your channel, but now I find myself examining and just overall being in awe at the smallest things, like an ancient column inside an unassuming cave, or just a tiny bit of a ruin peaking out of the dirt, my mind just fills with wonder as I imagine what these things looked like originally and how they were built.
Somehow the pre-history of The Lands between you presented was so much more interesting than the story explicitly given in-game. I've spent so much time looking at the impact craters in the lands between and never did I ever consider their relationship to the corpses of giants found embedded in the world. Awesome--you and your team are doing amazing
I spent so long wondering why the Divine Towers didn't look like anything else in the game and totally missed that they look like the pillars underneath our feet. What an excellent video and analysis. I feel like my eyes have been opened and I'm going to travel around looking at all the buried structures.
This channel is an actual gold mine. You are the meteorite that brought the power of thought to my mind. Because of you, I have birthed so many of my own fledgling ideas. To know that you have so much more to explore here, it leaves me thrilled.
WOW - I've been impressed by these videos, but wondered how much the DLC would make you revise things. Now I realize how on the nose you must be about all this. Tower of Babbel? Needing to rise up to obtain godhood? All this before the DLC? BRAVO SIR - You deserve a standing ovation.
Y'all continue to be the absolute best lore channel for this game. I've been watching for maybe half a year, and in all that time your videos are always the ones I'm most excited to see in my feed. The seamless blending and exploring of real-world inspirations with in-game evidence makes your work feel like the most convincing and captivating series of university lectures I've ever seen. As for this video itself, excellent work as always. It's a crime that this channel doesn't get more attention. As a small aside, I notice that the divine towers' internal elevator, as well as stairs and archways within the Caelid tower and atop all the towers, are clearly built for someone of human size, rather than the giants who presumably built them. So if the giants were building towers inlaid with features that they couldn't actually use themselves, they must've been building them for someone else. My guess is that this is evidence of the relationship between the giants and the ancient astrologers, perhaps with the former building these places of worship for their smaller-in-stature neighbors. The Sword of Night and Flame says the two groups were amicable, after all. Can't wait for the next presentation. Keep up the great work y'all \o/
That is an excellent observation. I personally think it's actually the astrologers who built the elevators and stairs inside the tower. I know it's a stretch, but somehow the elevators in the towers felt similar to the ones in the wells that lead to the eternal cities below. (I am not sure about this though) Either way that just doubles down on the fact that these two groups were friends like you say :)
The towers also appear to go down quit a way too. Perhaps they once connected the underworld with the giants. What better way to commune with a giant than to get on eye level anyway.
What if the Giants built the Towers for the Onyx and Alabaster Lords? They are beings associated with Gravity and Meteors. It wouldn't be impossible to imagine that they and the Giants were friends. Or they might have even been worshipped by the Giants considering Gravity can be used to stop/call down Meteors. And they would Certainly fit the Size of the Structures.
Man, the way you unraveled this lost giant civilization is stayed so true to hancock's theory, wow I wonder if a similar ancient civilization existed on our world
Those Builder Giants embedded in the ground look a lot like the people who were buried in ash in Pompeii. It may also be a bit of a stretch but the Fell God may be literal in its name, a god that fell from the heavens to the Lands Between with its concentric circles being its form of the Elden Ring.
Yes!!! Exaclty what I though too: the meteor struck the whole civ and covered the land in ash and molten rock in a matter of hours just like Vesuvius with Pompei And the lesser Giants adopted this fallen God and named it Fell because of its mighty wrath
Remember that the lava/ash deposits must postdate the arrival of the Fell God, because the divine towers were designed around its worship. Meteors fall, times change. Vis a vis.
This is unlikely. The fell god in original Japanese is "悪神" (lit. evil deity), so "fell" here is the adjective in the sense of "Of a strong and cruel nature; eager and unsparing; grim; fierce; ruthless; savage."
@@slzzzzzzzz Fell has more than one meaning such as hill or mountain from its etymology. Considering where we find the forge of the giants multiple definitions of the word could be correct. And the name might be a hold over from GRRM when he was writing the back story.
@@theULTIMATElife50 Mountain... That's the same god, El. Otherwise known as Thor or Jupiter who took over after the age of Cronos or Saturn. The people of the Fell God, the giants are killed by the Blood Star God's thorns and red choral swords associated with the God Dionysus who the Romans tried to claim as the Jewish God. (The Jews didn't accept that, so their conviction is up to interpretation)
Amazing! Might be my new favorite TA video, well done and congrats on your hard work! I remember seeing a Zullie the Witch video that showed many more ancient giant remains in areas like Limgrave that were cut from the final game showing that the developers' initial intent may have been to have these promethean figures be a more dominant and observable origin species for more players to pick up on. Even scaled back to their current density, thank goodness we still have you guys to piece it all together for us! Thanks again.
Thanks! By the way, one day we hope to address those limgrave giant skulls. They are not quite the same as the ones in the mountaintops or caelid. But they are the same as the crucible statue...
I think it’s truly excellent how the ‘fate controlled by the stars’ seems to basically be a literal, physical event: stars fall, breaking cities or ending ages. Radahn held back the stars and thus held back the physical blows of fate. (Gravity in the game also seems to be, not the tendency of things to fall down, but the capacity of stars not to fall to earth). In terms of timeline, there’s an interesting question: since dragons are of the same nature as the great roots (shown by the Misbegotten), and thus born from them, we can surmise that the dragons appeared after the golden star of the Elden Beast. Do we think the ancient giants even predated the dragons and that era of life? Or did Farum Azula witness the age of the giants? I’m inclined to believe Hyetta’s cosmogony, but it’s possible the ancient giants weren’t the same kind of life as that produced by the Elden Ring and the great roots. It’s all very strange, frankly.
If there was an "Age of the Giants" like the one postulated in this video, I'm inclined to think that the Ancient Giants may have been the original native inhabitants of The Lands Between. They experienced the impact event that brought them the Fell God, and thus fire and civilization. But perhaps later there was another, more catastrophic impact event. The one that covered the structures from the Age of the Giants and sloshed molten rock onto the Divine Towers: the arrival of the emissary of the Greater Will, the Elden Beast. When the Elden Beast fell, it may have obliterated all native life in the Lands Between - wiping the slate clean, creating a land ripe for repopulating with the forms of life that the Greater Will thought best. Not super up on my lore, but this may have first been in the form of the Greattree, which was cultivated and protected by the Dragons before the advent of the Erdtree atop its roots. If any beings related to the Ancient Giants survived the Elden Beast's arrival, it would likely be the ancestors of the Fire Giants. But it could also be that the Fire Giants themselves are still the result of the Greater Will seeding The Lands Between with its own kind of life, having come into contact with the Fell God and taking up its mantle. We know that's possible - the Age of the Dragons gave way to the Age of the Humans when the Greater Will moved its champion from the God of the Dragons to Marika.
awesome video! alternate theory/question: if it was an impact that re-liquified everything, it seems that it left much intact and didnt really damage the towers or make them lean…What if (wild speculation) the amorphous rock (both on towers and Forge of Giants) is spilled magma from other forges that once sat atop the towers? What if the titan/builders were literally creating the Lands Between by pouring rock from giant forges OVER scaffolding they set up. It just seems to me with the tunnels and arches holding up earth, the almost completely intact Ruin Strewn Precipice, etc, that the rock was molded with/for each structure, rather than blasted on, the force of which would have obliterated the columns and knocked over towers, collapsed intricately constructed tunnels, etc.
This is an interesting idea for sure. Typically forges are for metalworking, which jives with the whole meteorite worship and smithing evidence we have. So it seems less likely they would be pouring molten lava.
Amazing thought dude. Just imagining these huge titans molding molten earth in worship to a possibly even bigger god figure. What a beautiful scene. (I say possibly there since I don’t know if he had a physical form. Would be damn fucking cool though.)
I watch ~40-50hrs of RUclips a week, and your channel is among the few who's new releases I look forward to the most. You've really made some great insights and I think it's a testament to your skill, vast knowledge base, and attention to detail, as well as the amazing world building and level design talent at FromSoft.
Man I played this game hundreds of hours and I really really suck at it lol, but I never played a game like it before and then this new amazing fantasy world was Presented in such beautiful detail and on an immense scale, quite literally making u feel like a tiny little bug compared to it all. This world is so grandiose and mystical that I can’t stop just catching myself slowly walking around closely studying the architecture and incredible details all around me at any given time. I just wish more of the lore was easy to actually learn and observe first hand through in game play. I am still at a complete and total loss at the crazy amount of detail and backstory that you and others have dug up, from an already impressive amount of story that is given to us, you have made it feel more like reading a book, or telling a story. It’s just easier to absorb and actually get answers to things I couldn’t even attempt to understand, but had countless curious questions that led me to more questions every time I tried to investigate it myself lol TLDR- this was an amazing video, I’m very glad to have found ur channel and will be binging all of ur content and telling my few friends to check out. I like to fall asleep to lore videos like lotr or elder scrolls lol This game deserves to be up there on the lot of greatest fantasy stories eve told and channels like this one made it possible for everyone to easily digest without needing the game at all. THANK YOU
A very enjoyable watch! Glad I see my own finding match with others. But the cataclysm you mentioned I didn't think about and it got me thinking. What if Sellian scholar's unearthed the Ancient Giant remains near the town and through study learned of the cataclysm. From the information they gather they may figure out how to predict the next major impact, only to realize it will be Sellia. It isn't unlikely that they wouldn't notify the local ruler of this danger. If he were the stuff of legends he might do something incredible like a training montage and then, I don't know, challenge the stars themselves. For now this is my head canon of how the Starscrouge Conflict started.
This makes a lot of sense... the impact event and subsequent remelting of the surface of the Lands Between would give dragons specifically a huge advantage over other residents, and would also explain why they had to build Farum Azula in the sky.
Plus that explains all this One Great nostalgia around the Frenzy quest and this molten crust periode could even be the actual crucible that gave rise to the dragons
@@allthe1 Ooh damn I really like this theory. The earth became a literal crucible of molten rock after the Great Impact which gave rise to the dragons and other, new creatures. Those with horns and tails and feathers. And all the while the Great Tree/Erdtree is slowly growing in the fertile ground to assume its place as the next influencer of the lands between. The craftsmanship of FromSoftware with their stories and lore is just absolutely next level. Thank the Greater Will that people like Tarnished Archaeologist exist to help bring it all together.
The methodical way you go through the established facts of the lore, and bring them to conclusions that are not just logical, but in many cases inescapable, is absolutely fantastic. Keep up the great work.
If true i think its interesting that each (d)evolution of the fell God shrinks. First we have the Titans/Ancient Giants, then they shrink to Giants, when Giants rebuke the fell god they shrink into trolls and as the giants themselves are all but extinct that had to pass the flame on to an ever smaller variant the Fire monks.
And personally I’m under the belief that in the future the fire monks will have separated themselves from society long enough and praised the fell god hard enough that they will physically grow larger and have red hair and the way their armor imitates the fire giants chest the God will literally start to form into their chest. While not being exactly like the giants, probably in size being somewhere in between giant and troll, they will have essentially his evolved into them. But that’s just my head canon till/if we ever see that future
@@Quader417 If the fell god can make it's host grow, that would explain why some of the ancient giant fossels seem too big even for the massive builder-stratum ruins.
did u notice the columns at the base of the cauldron of the fire giants at 26:49. they are the same as the columns we find throughout The Lands Between implying that the giants culture used to stretch to every corner of the land. not to mention the divine towers and corpses of titans found everywhere i love this game!
The intros to these videos almost always make me forget that I'm watching an elden ring video. I like getting the little bit of real life history on ancient structures and civilizations
I'm surprised the iconographic ties between the Divine Towers/Forge, Uhl and Farum Azula weren't mentioned. The same vertical flower design shows up in all three. Edit: I went back and checked, and I'm like 99% sure Uhl and Giants are the same strata. I swear I once found consonance between them and Azula but I can't find it now.
If they were, then it'd make sense that the towers could have been used by Uhl and or Farum, since the ancient giants are too big to use their own structures.
I have a theory that the missing connecting-point for Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula was the lift-off point for Ferum Azula, and the "fringe-folk" of Limgrave were the remaining dragon worshippers from when Ferum Azula was grounded at that point in Limgrave.
I think the fire giants intentionally summoned the cataclysmic event that ended the titans, and they survived because they knew it was coming. That in doing so however, they became cursed themselves to suffer a similar fate, and then later Marika / Radagon accidentally took on the curse by carrying that fate out. Implying many of Marika / Radagons actions are in attempt to grapple with this curse, and that many things happening to the demigod family, as well as possible the lands between at large, are a result of this curse transferring from one group to another. Imagine the curse afflicting Radagon is the epicenter of an event, not a singular thing constrained to him.
Makes sense considering the positioning of the towers, how would they build towers around meteors that had not yet fallen, then creating the lava formations in the towers? Maybe they were built with the purpose of welcoming, or calling something to come. But if they were in a war agaisnt the titans it’s strange that they had enough time to build such intrinsic towers in a time of war, maybe they were there before the war, and were later used to call upon the meteors or welcome them, the fell god
@18:00 I wonder if the divine towers make sense now that the dlc map is available for reference with a pillar in the dlc map being the Center of Lands Between.
One feature of the Divine Towers that I've never been able to grasp is the black, misty strands seen as we go up the elevators. Kinda reminds me of the same stuff we see during the Rennala phase-transition scene with Ranni's voice.
What a phenomenal video! I do have some questions! 1. How old is the civilization of the "Builder" Giants compared to Faram Azula? Who came first, the Dragons, Beasts, or Giants? How does the civilization of the Dragons/Beasts fit in in this timeline? Were they truly the first, or did they emerge after the fall of the Builders? Also come to think of it, there are item descriptions talking about how the ancient Giants fought a war against the Ice Dragons on the Moutaintop. Were they fighting the Builder Giants, or the regular Gaints we know of? 2. So if we assume that there were multiple major impacts in the Lands Between's history, is this the correct order of events: The arrival of the Elden Beast, the arrival of the Fell God, and then the apocalyptic meteor collision that killed the Builder Giants? Or did the Elden Ring arrive later after the Fell God arrive, since the Elden RIng is said to be the source of the Erdtree and Greattree? But if so, then how could that be possible if the Elden Ring is the source of all life in the Lands Between, assuming Hyetta's words about the One Great are true? 3. How old were the Numen at this time? Could it be possible that Numen/Astrologers existed at this time, which could explain why the Divine Towers have the star imagery on the insides? The Sword of Night and Flame suggests that there was a cooperative and friendly relationship between the Giants and the old astrologers, so would they and possibly the Numen, have existed at this time? Apologies for the questions, but this was such a compelling video! I can't wait for your next ones, especially the onces concerning the ancient dragons!
I believe the giant civilisation had something akin to a caste system, where the biggest ones (the calcified remain found all over the Land Between) were the ruling priest class as they were able to man the mountaintop forge (even the ingame last fire giant would struggle to use it properly), the fire giants like the boss were the enforcers, and the smaller trolls were the laborers. It would explain why they betrayed the fell god and others giants by helping Marika in her genocide. In term of chronology, I'd believe the Giants were first and worshipped a meteorite in the central crater, but once the cataclysm came, they fell into disarray and retreated to their only remaining safe haven in the mountain tops, far from the rampaging lava now covering the lower areas, whence the Dragon and their Beastmen were able affirm their authority and started the worship of the great tree depicted in Farum Azula (perhaps the great tree sprouted or was first planted on the ground that held the meteorite?), then afterward came the Erdtree era when the Erdtree was grafted unto the root system of the Great Tree. The fighting between the Dragons and Giant probably happened early in their history, as in, the Dragons were probably just as old as the giants and were occasionally skirmishing with no real winner, but the big boys were greatly advantaged by the Fell God arrival and the subsequent creation of the art of smithing, which could have given them an edge against their flying thunder wielding nemesis. About the Numen, as they're an obvious reference to the Numenoreans of Tolkien Silmarillion, we can assume they have a similar history in the Land Between, where they weren't the first civilisation around but been present since the early aeons of the world, perhaps they were the first to worship the Greater Will, long before it made it enforced its authority with the Erdtree? So they could have been around back when Farum Azula and even the Giants were running things, but were a very minor power that kept to itself, unable to compete with the Giants and Dragons that were busy duking it out.
I think evidence points to the Elden Beast being a relatively recent, by comparison, arrival. Also, it was unmentioned in the video, but if a cataclysm did scour the surface, it's likely any humans from before it who survived would have done so in the underground areas.
@@Kevin-cf9nl I’m just confused by Hyetta’a dialogue, which implies that all life was unified before the Elden Ring arrived. Yes, Hyetta’a words can be questioned but this is the one time we hear of the One Great, and her words come directly from the Three Fingers.
I think the Elden Beast's star (meteor) is that second major catastrophic impact that reliquefies the crust. Regarding Hyetta, I think it's very hard to tell what she's saying there, it seems deliberately ambiguous. "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake." I think this original fracture is the spreading of the Five Fingers from the One Great (becoming Manus Celes/Crucible) and that the Greater Will then later makes a mistake by splitting two and three from five. I see the GW's transgression not as the birth of life itself but the birth of morality, or dualism, or original sin if you like. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, ("Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake.") pitting forces which once coexisted in relative harmony against each other. To me, all this nonsense about life coming only as a result of the Greater Will/Elden Ring is pure propaganda by its servants trying to assert their own faith as the true dogma of the world. This channel talks a ton about the legitimacy of rulers and the strategies which they've used to claim rightful authority throughout history, I believe that is what is at work with the assertions of GW/ER primacy. Sorry I'll stop there, I could probably ramble on for another 10 paragraphs about this. And for all the Golden Order fundamentalists out there here's a disclaimer: this is just, like, my opinion man (though I am interpreting the lore through Nietzschean and Gnostic ideas, which I think have a pretty apparent influence on FromSoft's worldbuilding).
i have to thank you, TA. i've recently discovered a passion for history, and have recently been studying roman history - in thanks due to this channel. i've also studied earth sciences in the past year, including geology, and so watching this video struck another different special chord with me. just as our world is ancient and complex, your videos help reveal how the world created by martin and miyazaki is also enormous, in a way that mystifies at the surface. your videos not only help me appreciate this game more, but have also helped encourage me to enrich my own life.
Wonderful analysis! The arrival of the Fell God as a meteoric impact makes it even more clear to me that Fromsoft drew inspiration from Roman mythology in the form of Vulcan. The fire, smithing, lame leg of the Fire Giant (an allusion to Vulcan's crippled leg after being hurled from Olympus), and the Eye of Jupiter are several examples. For months though, I've been wondering if Vulcan was more than a nod to these myths. Giordano Bruno was a theologian who wrote "The Expulsion of the Triumphant Beast", a philosophical work in the form of a dialogue that led to his burning at the stake by the Catholic Inquisition for mocking the pope, Jesus Christ, and harshly criticizing Christianity, among other charges. In it Jove (Jupiter) convenes a council of gods to rearrange the constellations above, thus reforming the world below, into a personality of a Beast. It is made up of primarily Solar influences, with Jovial (Jupiter) and Venereal (Venus) as well. Ursa Major is the primary constellation banished. It was called Helike, ("turning" or "twisting") because it turns around the celestial pole. The Odyssey notes that it is the sole constellation that never sinks below the horizon and "bathes in the Ocean's waves". This description of Ursa Major fits quite well with the Elden Beast we find in-game. Furthermore, I believe the ancient dragons represent the aforementioned influences with their golden flesh (Solar/Apollo), fire (Venus), and lightning (Jove). One then wonders if the Greater Will is the will of not one, but several gods. Farum Azula is also very Jupiter-coded to me with its lightning, storms and eagles, all symbols of the king of the gods.
I'm upset with RUclips for taking this long to provide one of your videos in my recommended feed. Instant subscription. Quality editing, clear explanations, devil's advocate counter-arguments to evidences, and a great voice to deliver the whole package. This is my new favorite channel for settling down for bed.
Not finished with the video yet, but one thing I've always thought of was how much the Fell God's eye reminds me of black holes. The swirling fire alike an accretion disk.
I stumbled upon your videos in the recs and binge-watched your channel the other day, and man oh man, your analysis, your parallels with the real human history are absolutely brilliant! I'm going to show this to anyone who ever says video games do not inspire or educate people. I wish you an exponential gain of subscribers, because honestly, your channel has to be the best lore channel for Elden Ring. Thank you for such compelling narration, such awesomely thought-out historic examples and all-in-all highest quality content. Thank you for sharing!
This blew my mind. I cannot express how great this video is. My jaw was on the floor. The revelation that the towers were built by the titans 🤯 that they surround the sea because it's a meteor crater 😲 which was caused by the titans building the towers welcoming The Fell God who's arrival caused the Land's crust to reform, thus burying the Titans and their entire civilisation in molten rock. Incredible. Amazing that you figured it out and breathtaking that FromSoftware laid these breadcrumbs with just architecture and terrain design.
Masterful video as always! I would kill for a Tarnished Archaeologist timeline of the Lands Between, to put all the pieces together. Please tell me you're planning to release it one day!
One more thing that i'd like to note is that the unused Lava Stone Giant face model in the old trailers seems to fall in line with everything mentioned in this video. Great work!
This is possibly the best video on Elden Ring / Fromsoft lore I have seen. I appreciate how strictly evidence based your interpretations are whereas so many other lore videos dive into outright speculation from the start. Well done!
When I started watching this I was skeptical and it felt a bit far fetched but holy shit I underestimated you and it's not the first time lol. There are just too many connections for it all to be a coincidence. Like the Fel God eye symbol blew my mind, that can't be bias right? And the use of the meteor textures. I just can't imagine that being a coincidence. Well done mate, you are quickly becoming one of the best Fromsoftware loremasters out there, Good job
the from lore hunter bar was already so high, yet you managed to bring it on a completely new level. your channel is a treasure, thank you. fwiw radahn castles is filled with those bundles that always remind me of the mussollini´s "fascio di combattimento" symbol...
This...was awesome. My head is spinning right now. I keep thinking about those giants on Nox thrones underground. How do they relate to this? Due to their composition,I suspect the Ancient Dragons literally came from one such impact, or at least, one significantly affected the course of their evolution. Their relation to the Ancient Giants is something I can only speculate upon, but unless they too had bigger ancestors, they likely came after the colossi. Nonetheless, I do believe they and later civilisations placed great importance on the work they left behind,given the current position of the Fingers, who have been working for a t least a few ages by now. What do you think the Fell God actually is? On one hand, it is comparable to an Outer God. On the other hand, it literally uses all it's folllowers as vessels, in what is called a "solitarry curse" for the Fire Giants. It sounds,quite frankly, rather unpleasant. Still, did they really surrender? Edit: Question, though: Why does the Forge take us to Farum?
@@Doomed_Traveler Great ideas, both of you. The idea they may be fallen reminds me of Astel, too, being described as a " Naturalborn "; essentially a polite word for bastard. Could it be he has a scary big bro?
@@Doomed_Traveler Shoot, someone mentioned elsewhere that in the japanese version the Fell God is simply called something like the Evil Deity. There goes this whole idea!
I've noticed little bits a pieces of clues you mentioned but never thought on it as hard as you do. Love watching you video. That was one hell of a cliffhanger...
I figured that the Divine Towers were a reference to the story of the Tower of Babel. The difference is that there is an actual Divine Ambassador known as the Two Fingers at every tower except for the one Ranni cut her soul from her body as she most likely attempted to harm the Tower’s Two Fingers at the same time. It’s a very complex and confusing structure that pre-dates most civilizations. Maybe it’s connected to the Ancient Dragons civilization because the Dragons civilization is older than the Golden Order and the Erdtree but it’s difficult to say for sure who built the Divine Towers. I never considered the Giants before today as the possible builders of the towers.
The fact that the erdtree itself seems to be growing out of the exact same crater in the middle of the map could suggest that this meteor was the one carrying the elden beast and with it the elden ring Ending the prehistoric era and starting a new one, it's very thematically appropriate, doubt it's an accident
But the divine towers predate even the crucible "saint and tree" era. That was before the Erdtree. I guess it could have been a meteor with the seed of the Great Tree? "The crucible" would be a fitting name for an era where the crust of the Lands Between becomes reliquefied. But I don't think it's that either. I think the point is that the Greattree/Erdtree had the opportunity to grow as much as it did was because the soil was fertile with ample access to water and minerals.
i feel so dumb for not realizing this sooner, and i thought i actually pay attention to From's narratives... amazing! thank you so much for the insights!
Each meteorite is surrounded by 8 pot marks. And Eight of those meteorites surround the center of meteroite locations each divine tower. Reflecting a fractal like repetition of the Fell God's symbol... Curious then that there are only 6 divine towers in game. Where there two other towers? And if so what happened to them? Because the six we see in game form an even Hexagon. So if there were 8 towers. Something shaped the land to rearrange the remaining six.
Marika’s removal of death could be one, would the other one be related to Ranni’s great rune? “Shaping the land” at least lines up with the Rune of death being removed by Marika and her obsession with order/her hubris. Could have been ole’ Raddy himself too, what with being such a Good Boy ™️ for the greater will. Probably not but eh.
@@yurinoworry I like the idea that the rings of the Fell God's symbol are part of an Elden Ring in it's own right, but I'd speculate that each reduction or rearranging of the Elden Ring represents a unique shattering and reforging event; In the pre-tower-Builder age, they were 8+1big circle. By the time the divine towers were build, it had already been reduced to 6+1. That one was shattered and reforged into the Farum Azula Ring... the quatra-foil ring... many of the windows in the Manus Celest cathedral have odd part-of-trefoils and 1/2-foils in their arches.
@@yurinoworry Imma need to do some checking on some information. But i would theorize whatever age came after the giants, presumably the age of the dragons would have done something to remove two towers and reshape the terrain to strike a blow to the previous ages belief system. By repurposing their monuments and arranging them in hexagon instead of their original shape it would serve too supplant and replace their rule. Im not sure if the number 6 has any significance in the ancient dragons society in farum azula but worth some digging
The opening of this video was so well done, I was captivated by the Stonehenge discussion and totally forgot I was watching an Elden Ring video for a sec.
When I first saw these towers I immediately thought of the Anglo-Saxon phrase I learned through Tolkien - "brosnað enta geweorc", the "decaying work of Giants", made famous by the poem "The Ruin" which probably refers to the Roman ruins at Bath observed over a half-millenium after their construction. Tolkien obviously loved this idea, e.g. think of Orthanc and the near-supernatural scale and quality of its construction. Anyway this immediately communicated to me the 'idea' of these towers. All of these details and conclusions escaped me though, except for the curious and unmistakable volcanic rock textures that I recognized from elsewhere in the overworld. Either way, man has grown feeble in comparison with his forebears.
Still one of my favorite theory videos, and I agree with nearly everything here. I'd also note this is one of the earliest lore videos to imply the existence of a much MUCH bigger Great Tree.
I really would dig if someone made artistic renders of all this prehistory of the Lands Between. Even rough sketches or simple 2D cross-section diagrams would be great visualisers. A timeline chart would be dope too. RUclipsr JaR hEd69's "Usurping Theory" timeline comes to mind. Impressive work from him.
The elevators don't use gravity magic. If you trigger the switch and step off, you'll see that the elevator is actually a pillar that is raised upwards.
For the love of the Universal Gods!! As a PhD in Physics which listened many thesis presentation this was real high-level academic research work! Superb! I am really happy to have discovered you!
Fantastic work as per the usual! I'm really hoping one day you'll dig into those damned cube structures found in Limgrave, Liurnia and WP. The always have ruin fragments on them, are almost always found right side up if not at least tilted and have no part of them that looks like they were connected to Farum Azula other than the design. The architecture is the same but I also can not find any evidence of these structures in FA, so what are they? Were they free floating before FA's destruction? Why are none of them flipped upside down? Maybe these aren't important but they are some of the first ruins of Farum Azula you come across in game as a few can be seen after you exit the Stranded Graveyard. They are usually around the larger rounded broken ruins that looks far more like FA. More interesting about these is that all of the ruins found from FA in the aforementioned regions have none of the more elaborate designs of FA, like the embedded skeletons. Love your work!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist There's a Chinese folk story called the Great Bell in which a craftsman keeps trying to make a bell for the emperor but fails each time in the casting process until his daughter throws herself into the molten alloy, her sacrifice creating the perfect mixture of metals for the bell. My theory is that the ruins have fallen because no such beast-men have been imbedded within its walls, so they lack the mystical energy to sustain themselves afloat.
DLC tends to confirm many of this, albeit some differences or additions. (but the first meteore could be Metyr as well, cause she's canonically the first meteor to land. If we suppose she's "in the Lands Between" and not in another dimension. However, the Fell god makes more sense visually and thematically).
seems unlikely it held that much molten lava, BUT it definitely looks as though the bottom broke and thats exactly what happened... it is very plausible, and might actually be what truly happened.
@jaceyates6315 Might have been part of the process of the Giants (modern) defeat by Marika. As we know the flame was almost extinguished (and indeed there is only one living Fire Giant), perhaps that slag is from that event. Indeed, if anywhere escaped the proposed cataclysm of the past it'd be the mountaintops anyway
I'm just amazed how every video you drop new gems that not ONE other content creator has mentioned. This pre civilization and the molten lava/rock is just mind blowing.
i always thought the fire giants built the towers (note the eight circles arranged radially about a larger ninth, present at the peaks, much like the eye of the fell god)
Even if there is no elden ring content to make anymore, your stongehenge chapter was so cool, i would watch every real life archealogy content you produce!❤
the lands between being somehow "suspended" or "resting on top " of those structures actually makes even more sense when we take into consideration the multiple cities that suddenly got swallowed by the earth.
I've always loved the idea of a civilization so old that the earth has moved around their ruins and their structures are older than the stone around them.
This is why I love ds2 and hate ds3.
In ds2, so much time has passed since ds1 (which are confirmed to be in the same location) that even the entire geology of the place changed completely.
Then along comes ds3 which is claimed to be eons and eons after ds2, and some places still resemble ds1...
@@meyes1098nah i mean, i enjoyed ds3 for how older structures were cannibalized by other civilizations. Just wish that was done better, somehow integrating parts of drangleic and lothric better than just copypasting an entire area over.
@@meyes1098 what? wasnt drangelic always confirmed to be a different part of the world, or am I missing somethng? even if it was the same part though, having Lordran show up again in ds3 ties everything back to its theme of cycles (the world went so far as to revert back to its ancient state), so i dont see why as a ds2 fan it's world is a bad thing
@@teenageboyhormonalrage
Because the world is not perfectly cyclic (new game plus isn't canon xD).
This is perfectly exemplified with ds2's world, since it's implied to be in the same spot (the only thing to contradict this was some spokesperson saying that "ds2 is on the other side" or some stuff like that, like 3 months into development, which isn't relevant anymore).
The thing is, in dark souls 2, so much time has passed, an incredible amount of time, that even the geography itself changed (it's now an island, there's mountains everywhere, etc.), and the names of the old gods were all but forgotten.
Heck, so much time passed that even the kindling of the flame itself corroded and devolved into a mere concept (the throne of want).
And then ds3 comes along and literally ruins all of this, because they wanted fan service...
Ds3 makes literally 0 sense, in the context of ds2 being before it. It only makes sense if ds2 is far, far in the future, way past ds3.
@@meyes1098ds2 defender 😂
Tremendously well-done. If you had told me twenty years ago I would be enamored with archeology videos of a virtual world, I would have called you crazy, but here we are.
Before this guy the lore felt like a convoluted mess, now it is one of the best
@@ALL4NTHINGthe lore of FromSoft games have always been this good just takes some passion and to find it. Takes a really good story teller and a good mind to figure out the insane world and mind of Miyazaki. I wish Miyazaki would write a book and I also wish he would let Martin publish whatever he wrote for Elden ring would love to see the contrast with what Miyazaki used and didn’t and how he changed the characters from normal people into what we know them as
before T.A i didnt respect the wordbuilding of eldenring so didnt look hard for sophistication or how itd make sense. was very dismissive of it as generic fantasy things. but its quite intricate if u give it the time of day
@@shanedillis153I'd argue that for past game the lore was more easily accessible and less intricated
I have probably yelled “Mom, there’s a stranger in my room saying he knows the future!”
It would make sense that the second meteor impact that wiped out the giants and led to the creation of the great tree is the same meteor that carried the Elden Beast, the golden star.
That's what I was thinking as well.
Then I wonder what was the meteorite that destroyed Farum Azula mentioned in the Ruins Greatsword
@@blakebailey22
That was the one carrying Astel, I think.
Bingo
@@FearsEdge No, That's one of the underground cities
One possible issue here is the fact that the Divine Towers do not seem to be built to the scale of the Ancient Giants. Even the Fire Giant and Golems seems too big for the areas at the top. The Towers very clearly seem to be made to be entered and used by people our size.
Onyx lords use gravitational magic so possible them
Giants in Norse Mythology can shift in size so...
there’s also a possibility that a new giant may be smaller in scale than those that have lived for a while? the ancient giants seem massive, while the fire giant and giants from the age of fire are smaller, but what you’d probably consider “medium” from an ER giant.
giants also have an unbelievable lifespan in ER so the ancient giants may have built them when they were able to use them? idk man
This was my thought the whole video and I'm annoyed that it was never addressed. It's hardly a detail Fromsoft wouldn't have considered, given they made Anor Londo.
We know that Onyx and Alabaster lords come from meteors as well, so it's possible that they did the finer, smaller details.
The song in the beginning is a Swedish lullaby about wolves, their puppies and hunger. The wolf howls in the forest and the singer sings to the wolf to never come close. For it will never get its paws on his/her child(the one listening to the lullaby).
I'd recognise Jonna Jintons voice anywhere I think, a pleasant surprise!
Thank you, it's a lovely song I've never heard
@morgenrotritter-8608 do you get enjoyment from being an unnecessary prick?
@@MaximillionPegasusJ.Crawfordone day, after you get through puberty, you will look back in behavior of yours like this and feel shame.
I was working and decided to turn this video on to listen in the background. Then I stopped typing and was like “wait I understand this one” 😂 Definitely a nice surprise!
Sometimes I wonder if the residents of The Lands Between have seen their new Elden Lord just walking around and sitting in places of presumed historical importance.
Nah. Only on pieces of toast, tortillas, and tortilla chips. They also occasionally find cheetos in the shapes of kings.
That would be the equivalent of americans watching Joe Biden hit the griddy ontop of Mount Rushmore.
I’m sure they have. Probably didn’t recognize him since he looks like Donatello though
@@DarkLordFromTheSecondAgeI seen him busting the Dougie on Stone Mountain.
I wonder what ending tarnished archeologist went with
So, the "Fell God" is more like "The God That Fell (from space)"
Well punned, Miyazaki
Thought the same thing.
Hideo Kojima approves.
It certainly fits in. The "subverted hyperbole" (or "things being unexpectedly literal", like how "the two fingers" are not a honorific title but are actual disembodied fingers, etc.) is kind of a running theme with ER that crops up everywhere.
At this point, I half-expect the rain that falls on the "Weeping peninsula" to actually be some eldritch being's tears.
@@BackwardsPancake the Eldritch Being, of course, being the peninsula itself!
I was thinking that as he said it. “So fell as in he fell to the planet.”
We should talk about this again as the DLC map is located inside the central of these divine towers!
love the worker holding up a "no drones" sign in the drone footage at 2:32
lmao so there is.
I was wondering what that sign was xD
I noticed it too and desperately looked for a comment about it xD
@@cuddlesgamingvids Same, lol
@@cuddlesgamingvidswhy do desperate? What do you mean?
Do we have any comparisons of the scale between these Ancient Giants and their architecture? Their remains seen too big to physically use the architecture being attributed to them, like the Divine Towers.
heh, most open world game are technically "scaled" and they technically can't match in-game and lore size in most games, so the building and giant size most likely would not match.
but concidering that the pc measure around 5'6/1,6 generally in from games, is aprox dead giant's eye height and a human eye is around 35mm on height; we can use this info to get their aprox sizewith any giant size calculator, which in this case is 78 meters aprox.
honesty with that size I also doubt they could use the building, tower or the golem that are atribute to them, tho they smaller size relatives could had, like the trolls.
Maybe it was just like sand castles for them
If we use the reliquification theory, it's very possible that what we see is only the very, very tops of these structures, and those tops were purely decorative. The Divine Tower of Caelid extends far deeper than we're allowed to go down it, and where we can get to is almost down to the Eternal Cities.
Perhaps built by giants but utilized by their lords. Specifically the Onyx and Alabaster lords. They appeared with the meteorites and use gravity magic. You can still find one hanging out on a meteorite in the sealed tunnel by Leyndell, encircled by the same architecture seen on tops of the towers.
The biggest giants could have been an artificial species meant for construction or as physical vessels for the Fell God. It's clear in the game that power (divine or otherwise) can cause an increase in a creature's size.
I belive I have already said it, but I will do so again: The attention to detail the works of this channel have is not to be found on any other Elden-ring-lore-channel and the unique perspective you offer to solve so many questions is astonishing. Please continue what you are doing until the day I cease to exist.
Thanks! We'll keep going as long as we have interesting ideas to contribute.
You would also like Square Table Gaming, they do great Elden lore
@@TiberiusRex182 I do ;D
Yes. It’s the best perspective. And definitely most articulate
A small detail that wasn't mentioned in the video is that the smithing stones 1 and 2 have the same speckled appearance as the meteorites in the impact craters and Divine Towers, which seems to imply to me that a lot of the metal in the lands between ultimately comes from meteorites.
Many of the caves (maybe all of them?) end with a room housing a sunken meteorite. If the meteorites did indeed bring about smithing, then it would make sense that the mines we see throughout the lands between are harvesting smithing stones from those meteorites. just a connection I realize wasn’t made explicit in the video.
@@Its_a_bad_ideaAnd the fact that so many of these meteorites can be found buried deep underground lends credence to a lot of the ideas put forward in this video
But those stones are not metal. They are dragon scales, which are made of rock.
@@Ollybollyk is that description not only referencing the ancient dragon smithing stone? the others have varying descriptions, but 1-4 are confirmed to be mined from underground.
@@Ollybollyk The ancient dragon smithing stones are explicitly the scales of dragons, yes. But the more common ones are just bits of metal found underground
This man went from small Chanel to massive legend in almost no time. I’m just so happy and lucky to be able to see it happen from the ground up. Amazing work as always and thank you for the video!
Jesus, is that you? Thanks for the compliment.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist 🤫😉
@@tarnishedarchaeologistJesús
The motif of a large meteor surrounded by several smaller meteors reminds me a lot of elden stars, and also of Radahn's meteor. The builder's civilization and god born from meteorite and ended by meteorite. The ancient dragon's worship of the greater will born from a meteorite, and farum azula destroyed and cast out of time by a meteorite. Even Sellia, part of a civilization worshiping the stars, fated to be destroyed by a meteor before Radahn challenged that fate and stopped it, but the meteor still has to fall for the age of stars to begin. Just some thoughts.
Youre certainly on to something, the theme of meterites both seeding life, taking life and creating oppurtunities is definitely there
@@tariqdanzig3621 " The stars govern fate". All fate. And they're some very hands-on governors.
@@alyseleem2692 And how many fingers do they have on those hands? ;-p
@@AmryL Dunno. Five? Probably five. Makes a good fist to punch people with their unwanted destiny.
@@alyseleem2692 Five? FIVE!!! BURN YOU HERETIC!!!
Man I love hearing "...but thats a story for another day." Because it means more TA videos 🎉🎉
Seriously though, you mentioned the tower of Babel and it makes me wonder if there was a similar scenario there that drove the cataclysm. Like, they towers were created to try to summon more meteors but they summoned too many and maybe that caused the end of their world?
You could be right. It makes sense when you consider the modern starcallers. Sure they don't look for meteors for metal ore but for residual gravity magic and they are looked down on and considered desperate just like "faux sorcery" users that don't use reusable high quality glintstones mounted on staffs. However they have a functional way of gathering and making single use gravity magic catalysts. Their methodology seems to be to look for and mine meteors but they also seem to pray to and for more meteor impacts.
If we suppose that ancient starcallers where much stronger maybe the onyx and alabaster lords or their ancestors where the starcaller caste of an ancient giant civilisation and their mistakes caused the meteor swarm that ended their civilisation.
One thing that I really found intressting about the onyx and alabaster lords is how many of their powers seem to be opposites. An onyx lord can draw down meteors like in the meteor spell and repel gravity from their proximity like in the onyx lords repulsion weapon art. An alabaster lord on the other hand can lift stones telekineticaly and throw them but also draw in local gravity with alabaster lords pull the stronger version of gravitas weapon art.
In game we can learn much more alabaster style gravity magic since it was mastered and spread by Radahn. Radahn fights like an alabaster lord. His swords draws people in with localised gravity and all his projectile gravity attacks where lifted from the ground: his meteor phalanx is drawn from the ground like rock sling, his arrows are fired from his bow on the ground and himself as a meteor is lifted from the ground before he falls back down.
If Radahn as the pinacle of alabaster gravity magic can stop the stars and prevent meteors from falling then maybe an ancient master of onyx gravity magic could greatly accelerate the falls of Meteors. Imagine the potential tragedy if there is only an onyx master that can cause meteor swarm impacts but no powerfull enough alabaster master that can stop them.
@@simonwahlen7150 I really love this theory and was going down a similar rabbit hole after watching this video. Those Lords risen from the fall of meteor are much more important to understanding the Lands between's history than many realize.
This really made a lot of sense to me, thanks for the theory. They put a bunch of dense meteorites with high gravitational pull high up in the hopes to make stars (meteorite) rain down more often; most likely not realizing that gravity is not a force, but a curvature of spacetime capable of summoning beings from other dimension/world.
My theory is before this mess, the Lands Between were fine with no gods and whatnot; but after Elden Beast, and possibly even more Onyx along with Alabaster lords or other celestial beings got summoned (causing even more gravity fuckery), Outer Gods became able to influence LB as spacetime itself weakens LB's boundary (what Melina refers to as "the fog" so to speak). This might really put into perspective as to why Radahn stopped the movement of the stars; not only was he attempting to eternally preserve the Golden Order, he was also trying to restrict the Outer God's influence.
@@simonwahlen7150 Also note that in the divine towers we get these weird white and black misty energy things floating in the air around the elevators. Could explain the fundamental mechanism of how the elevators rise and fall using the same principles as the onyx and alabaster lords.
Fun fact about Stonehenge is it may be even older than currently accepted, the original circle is theorized to have been wooden since they've found microscopic materials associated with ancient wood in a circular ditch around Stonehenge, and the fact other henges (some of them even older than Stonehenge) have been found with genuine evidence of wood being the original material used.
what the heck
That's an interesting theory and makes a lot of sense. The culture that made the henges probably would have started with smaller, more easy to make versions. Then during the height of their prosperity, the Stonehenge was created as a magnum opus version of the older originals. Then by our time, the wooden originals have long since rotted away and disappeared.
Woodhenge just doesn't have the same ring to it..
@@BRedd10815 yeah it would be a smaller ring
That seems like a stretch to me. Just because there's wood, particularly in the ditch, doesn't mean that wood was used to build a wooden version of the structure. Archeologists do this all the time. They'll find organic material next to a stone structure, and assume the date of that material corresponds to the date the structure was built. In reality, all that means is the site was occupied at that time. I do think Stonehenge is older than currently accepted, but for different reasons. If the people at Gobekli Tepe and Karahan Tepe were able to build those structures at those times, then we have to rethink what ancient people were capable of.
As I work my way through your videos, it’s dawned on me: Miyazaki and those he trusts with his games must be fantastic students of history. Their love of humanity, even our flaws, is so profoundly apparent in the care taken in the expression of the games they make for us, and very clearly themselves, as well.
I hope he watches these videos. I hope he knows how much these games mean to people.
Tarnished Archeologist has become one of my favorite Elden Ring content creators. Every video has fantastic production quality and are so well thought out. Watching your videos makes me feel like I’m sitting down for a college level lecture. Thank you for such excellent content.
Wow, thank you!
I can't tell you how much more you made me appreciate Elden Ring. I was already stopping in my tracks admiring its beauty and detail before I found your channel, but now I find myself examining and just overall being in awe at the smallest things, like an ancient column inside an unassuming cave, or just a tiny bit of a ruin peaking out of the dirt, my mind just fills with wonder as I imagine what these things looked like originally and how they were built.
Somehow the pre-history of The Lands between you presented was so much more interesting than the story explicitly given in-game. I've spent so much time looking at the impact craters in the lands between and never did I ever consider their relationship to the corpses of giants found embedded in the world.
Awesome--you and your team are doing amazing
I spent so long wondering why the Divine Towers didn't look like anything else in the game and totally missed that they look like the pillars underneath our feet. What an excellent video and analysis. I feel like my eyes have been opened and I'm going to travel around looking at all the buried structures.
This channel is an actual gold mine. You are the meteorite that brought the power of thought to my mind. Because of you, I have birthed so many of my own fledgling ideas. To know that you have so much more to explore here, it leaves me thrilled.
What an awesome thing to hear. Explore that vast unknown!
WOW - I've been impressed by these videos, but wondered how much the DLC would make you revise things. Now I realize how on the nose you must be about all this. Tower of Babbel? Needing to rise up to obtain godhood? All this before the DLC? BRAVO SIR - You deserve a standing ovation.
I get unnaturally excited when I see a new TA video drop. Most underrated Elden Ring RUclipsr. I absolutely love this content!
thanks!
Y'all continue to be the absolute best lore channel for this game. I've been watching for maybe half a year, and in all that time your videos are always the ones I'm most excited to see in my feed. The seamless blending and exploring of real-world inspirations with in-game evidence makes your work feel like the most convincing and captivating series of university lectures I've ever seen.
As for this video itself, excellent work as always. It's a crime that this channel doesn't get more attention.
As a small aside, I notice that the divine towers' internal elevator, as well as stairs and archways within the Caelid tower and atop all the towers, are clearly built for someone of human size, rather than the giants who presumably built them. So if the giants were building towers inlaid with features that they couldn't actually use themselves, they must've been building them for someone else. My guess is that this is evidence of the relationship between the giants and the ancient astrologers, perhaps with the former building these places of worship for their smaller-in-stature neighbors. The Sword of Night and Flame says the two groups were amicable, after all.
Can't wait for the next presentation. Keep up the great work y'all \o/
That is an excellent observation. I personally think it's actually the astrologers who built the elevators and stairs inside the tower. I know it's a stretch, but somehow the elevators in the towers felt similar to the ones in the wells that lead to the eternal cities below. (I am not sure about this though)
Either way that just doubles down on the fact that these two groups were friends like you say :)
The towers also appear to go down quit a way too. Perhaps they once connected the underworld with the giants.
What better way to commune with a giant than to get on eye level anyway.
What if the Giants built the Towers for the Onyx and Alabaster Lords?
They are beings associated with Gravity and Meteors. It wouldn't be impossible to imagine that they and the Giants were friends. Or they might have even been worshipped by the Giants considering Gravity can be used to stop/call down Meteors. And they would Certainly fit the Size of the Structures.
Man, the way you unraveled this lost giant civilization is stayed so true to hancock's theory, wow I wonder if a similar ancient civilization existed on our world
Those Builder Giants embedded in the ground look a lot like the people who were buried in ash in Pompeii. It may also be a bit of a stretch but the Fell God may be literal in its name, a god that fell from the heavens to the Lands Between with its concentric circles being its form of the Elden Ring.
Yes!!! Exaclty what I though too: the meteor struck the whole civ and covered the land in ash and molten rock in a matter of hours just like Vesuvius with Pompei
And the lesser Giants adopted this fallen God and named it Fell because of its mighty wrath
Remember that the lava/ash deposits must postdate the arrival of the Fell God, because the divine towers were designed around its worship. Meteors fall, times change. Vis a vis.
This is unlikely. The fell god in original Japanese is "悪神" (lit. evil deity), so "fell" here is the adjective in the sense of "Of a strong and cruel nature; eager and unsparing; grim; fierce; ruthless; savage."
@@slzzzzzzzz Fell has more than one meaning such as hill or mountain from its etymology. Considering where we find the forge of the giants multiple definitions of the word could be correct. And the name might be a hold over from GRRM when he was writing the back story.
@@theULTIMATElife50 Mountain... That's the same god, El. Otherwise known as Thor or Jupiter who took over after the age of Cronos or Saturn. The people of the Fell God, the giants are killed by the Blood Star God's thorns and red choral swords associated with the God Dionysus who the Romans tried to claim as the Jewish God.
(The Jews didn't accept that, so their conviction is up to interpretation)
Amazing! Might be my new favorite TA video, well done and congrats on your hard work! I remember seeing a Zullie the Witch video that showed many more ancient giant remains in areas like Limgrave that were cut from the final game showing that the developers' initial intent may have been to have these promethean figures be a more dominant and observable origin species for more players to pick up on. Even scaled back to their current density, thank goodness we still have you guys to piece it all together for us! Thanks again.
Thanks! By the way, one day we hope to address those limgrave giant skulls. They are not quite the same as the ones in the mountaintops or caelid. But they are the same as the crucible statue...
Awesome! Looking forward to it!
Me everyday: 😑
Me when Tarnished Archeologist posts a vid: 🥳🥰🤯
the guy holding the no drone sign in the beginning while it circled stonehendge is too funny
I think it’s truly excellent how the ‘fate controlled by the stars’ seems to basically be a literal, physical event: stars fall, breaking cities or ending ages. Radahn held back the stars and thus held back the physical blows of fate. (Gravity in the game also seems to be, not the tendency of things to fall down, but the capacity of stars not to fall to earth).
In terms of timeline, there’s an interesting question: since dragons are of the same nature as the great roots (shown by the Misbegotten), and thus born from them, we can surmise that the dragons appeared after the golden star of the Elden Beast. Do we think the ancient giants even predated the dragons and that era of life? Or did Farum Azula witness the age of the giants?
I’m inclined to believe Hyetta’s cosmogony, but it’s possible the ancient giants weren’t the same kind of life as that produced by the Elden Ring and the great roots. It’s all very strange, frankly.
If there was an "Age of the Giants" like the one postulated in this video, I'm inclined to think that the Ancient Giants may have been the original native inhabitants of The Lands Between. They experienced the impact event that brought them the Fell God, and thus fire and civilization. But perhaps later there was another, more catastrophic impact event. The one that covered the structures from the Age of the Giants and sloshed molten rock onto the Divine Towers: the arrival of the emissary of the Greater Will, the Elden Beast.
When the Elden Beast fell, it may have obliterated all native life in the Lands Between - wiping the slate clean, creating a land ripe for repopulating with the forms of life that the Greater Will thought best. Not super up on my lore, but this may have first been in the form of the Greattree, which was cultivated and protected by the Dragons before the advent of the Erdtree atop its roots.
If any beings related to the Ancient Giants survived the Elden Beast's arrival, it would likely be the ancestors of the Fire Giants. But it could also be that the Fire Giants themselves are still the result of the Greater Will seeding The Lands Between with its own kind of life, having come into contact with the Fell God and taking up its mantle. We know that's possible - the Age of the Dragons gave way to the Age of the Humans when the Greater Will moved its champion from the God of the Dragons to Marika.
awesome video! alternate theory/question: if it was an impact that re-liquified everything, it seems that it left much intact and didnt really damage the towers or make them lean…What if (wild speculation) the amorphous rock (both on towers and Forge of Giants) is spilled magma from other forges that once sat atop the towers? What if the titan/builders were literally creating the Lands Between by pouring rock from giant forges OVER scaffolding they set up. It just seems to me with the tunnels and arches holding up earth, the almost completely intact Ruin Strewn Precipice, etc, that the rock was molded with/for each structure, rather than blasted on, the force of which would have obliterated the columns and knocked over towers, collapsed intricately constructed tunnels, etc.
I really like that idea
This is an interesting idea for sure. Typically forges are for metalworking, which jives with the whole meteorite worship and smithing evidence we have. So it seems less likely they would be pouring molten lava.
Had the same idea! Like the promethean giants were making a big diorama build with those "ruins" acting as its foundation haha
Amazing thought dude. Just imagining these huge titans molding molten earth in worship to a possibly even bigger god figure. What a beautiful scene. (I say possibly there since I don’t know if he had a physical form. Would be damn fucking cool though.)
So you might say, they were forging an Elden Ring?
I watch ~40-50hrs of RUclips a week, and your channel is among the few who's new releases I look forward to the most.
You've really made some great insights and I think it's a testament to your skill, vast knowledge base, and attention to detail, as well as the amazing world building and level design talent at FromSoft.
Please, please go outside.
Man I played this game hundreds of hours and I really really suck at it lol, but I never played a game like it before and then this new amazing fantasy world was Presented in such beautiful detail and on an immense scale, quite literally making u feel like a tiny little bug compared to it all.
This world is so grandiose and mystical that I can’t stop just catching myself slowly walking around closely studying the architecture and incredible details all around me at any given time.
I just wish more of the lore was easy to actually learn and observe first hand through in game play. I am still at a complete and total loss at the crazy amount of detail and backstory that you and others have dug up, from an already impressive amount of story that is given to us, you have made it feel more like reading a book, or telling a story. It’s just easier to absorb and actually get answers to things I couldn’t even attempt to understand, but had countless curious questions that led me to more questions every time I tried to investigate it myself lol
TLDR- this was an amazing video, I’m very glad to have found ur channel and will be binging all of ur content and telling my few friends to check out. I like to fall asleep to lore videos like lotr or elder scrolls lol
This game deserves to be up there on the lot of greatest fantasy stories eve told and channels like this one made it possible for everyone to easily digest without needing the game at all.
THANK YOU
A very enjoyable watch! Glad I see my own finding match with others. But the cataclysm you mentioned I didn't think about and it got me thinking. What if Sellian scholar's unearthed the Ancient Giant remains near the town and through study learned of the cataclysm. From the information they gather they may figure out how to predict the next major impact, only to realize it will be Sellia. It isn't unlikely that they wouldn't notify the local ruler of this danger. If he were the stuff of legends he might do something incredible like a training montage and then, I don't know, challenge the stars themselves. For now this is my head canon of how the Starscrouge Conflict started.
This blew my mind about 8 times, incredible man. Some of your best work yet.
This makes a lot of sense... the impact event and subsequent remelting of the surface of the Lands Between would give dragons specifically a huge advantage over other residents, and would also explain why they had to build Farum Azula in the sky.
Plus that explains all this One Great nostalgia around the Frenzy quest and this molten crust periode could even be the actual crucible that gave rise to the dragons
@@allthe1 Ooh damn I really like this theory. The earth became a literal crucible of molten rock after the Great Impact which gave rise to the dragons and other, new creatures. Those with horns and tails and feathers. And all the while the Great Tree/Erdtree is slowly growing in the fertile ground to assume its place as the next influencer of the lands between.
The craftsmanship of FromSoftware with their stories and lore is just absolutely next level. Thank the Greater Will that people like Tarnished Archaeologist exist to help bring it all together.
The methodical way you go through the established facts of the lore, and bring them to conclusions that are not just logical, but in many cases inescapable, is absolutely fantastic. Keep up the great work.
If true i think its interesting that each (d)evolution of the fell God shrinks. First we have the Titans/Ancient Giants, then they shrink to Giants, when Giants rebuke the fell god they shrink into trolls and as the giants themselves are all but extinct that had to pass the flame on to an ever smaller variant the Fire monks.
And personally I’m under the belief that in the future the fire monks will have separated themselves from society long enough and praised the fell god hard enough that they will physically grow larger and have red hair and the way their armor imitates the fire giants chest the God will literally start to form into their chest. While not being exactly like the giants, probably in size being somewhere in between giant and troll, they will have essentially his evolved into them. But that’s just my head canon till/if we ever see that future
@@Quader417 If the fell god can make it's host grow, that would explain why some of the ancient giant fossels seem too big even for the massive builder-stratum ruins.
Well if you compare it to dinosaurs going out of style and the creatures walking the earth getting smaller and smaller until modern day
Not ready for when the vulgar militia will inherit the will of the fire monks !
did u notice the columns at the base of the cauldron of the fire giants at 26:49. they are the same as the columns we find throughout The Lands Between implying that the giants culture used to stretch to every corner of the land. not to mention the divine towers and corpses of titans found everywhere i love this game!
I was not expecting it to go in the direction it did, but boy am I glad it did! Such a good video, as always!
thanks!
The intros to these videos almost always make me forget that I'm watching an elden ring video. I like getting the little bit of real life history on ancient structures and civilizations
I'm surprised the iconographic ties between the Divine Towers/Forge, Uhl and Farum Azula weren't mentioned. The same vertical flower design shows up in all three.
Edit: I went back and checked, and I'm like 99% sure Uhl and Giants are the same strata. I swear I once found consonance between them and Azula but I can't find it now.
I love that flower design! They used a similar flower design for Aldia's Keep in DS2.
If they were, then it'd make sense that the towers could have been used by Uhl and or Farum, since the ancient giants are too big to use their own structures.
malikeths boss room looks like the inside of the divine towers
I have a theory that the missing connecting-point for Limgrave and the Weeping Peninsula was the lift-off point for Ferum Azula, and the "fringe-folk" of Limgrave were the remaining dragon worshippers from when Ferum Azula was grounded at that point in Limgrave.
Eh? There's continuity of iconography, sure, but very different overall.
Do you think you could do like an hour long rundown of your take on the whole history of the lands between?
Every video has felt like a small part leading up to this
I think the fire giants intentionally summoned the cataclysmic event that ended the titans, and they survived because they knew it was coming. That in doing so however, they became cursed themselves to suffer a similar fate, and then later Marika / Radagon accidentally took on the curse by carrying that fate out. Implying many of Marika / Radagons actions are in attempt to grapple with this curse, and that many things happening to the demigod family, as well as possible the lands between at large, are a result of this curse transferring from one group to another. Imagine the curse afflicting Radagon is the epicenter of an event, not a singular thing constrained to him.
Good idea, literally theme of stars that's moving the fate
Makes sense considering the positioning of the towers, how would they build towers around meteors that had not yet fallen, then creating the lava formations in the towers? Maybe they were built with the purpose of welcoming, or calling something to come. But if they were in a war agaisnt the titans it’s strange that they had enough time to build such intrinsic towers in a time of war, maybe they were there before the war, and were later used to call upon the meteors or welcome them, the fell god
Would be very poetic. Especially because the trolls betrayed the fire giants (they did a bit of trolling...). So each time, the small betray the tall.
@18:00 I wonder if the divine towers make sense now that the dlc map is available for reference with a pillar in the dlc map being the Center of Lands Between.
Man I thought I couldn't go any crazier after that Gloam Eyed Queen episode. This just gets better and better. Keep it up man!!!
thanks!
One feature of the Divine Towers that I've never been able to grasp is the black, misty strands seen as we go up the elevators. Kinda reminds me of the same stuff we see during the Rennala phase-transition scene with Ranni's voice.
What a phenomenal video! I do have some questions!
1. How old is the civilization of the "Builder" Giants compared to Faram Azula? Who came first, the Dragons, Beasts, or Giants? How does the civilization of the Dragons/Beasts fit in in this timeline? Were they truly the first, or did they emerge after the fall of the Builders? Also come to think of it, there are item descriptions talking about how the ancient Giants fought a war against the Ice Dragons on the Moutaintop. Were they fighting the Builder Giants, or the regular Gaints we know of?
2. So if we assume that there were multiple major impacts in the Lands Between's history, is this the correct order of events: The arrival of the Elden Beast, the arrival of the Fell God, and then the apocalyptic meteor collision that killed the Builder Giants? Or did the Elden Ring arrive later after the Fell God arrive, since the Elden RIng is said to be the source of the Erdtree and Greattree? But if so, then how could that be possible if the Elden Ring is the source of all life in the Lands Between, assuming Hyetta's words about the One Great are true?
3. How old were the Numen at this time? Could it be possible that Numen/Astrologers existed at this time, which could explain why the Divine Towers have the star imagery on the insides? The Sword of Night and Flame suggests that there was a cooperative and friendly relationship between the Giants and the old astrologers, so would they and possibly the Numen, have existed at this time?
Apologies for the questions, but this was such a compelling video! I can't wait for your next ones, especially the onces concerning the ancient dragons!
I believe the giant civilisation had something akin to a caste system, where the biggest ones (the calcified remain found all over the Land Between) were the ruling priest class as they were able to man the mountaintop forge (even the ingame last fire giant would struggle to use it properly), the fire giants like the boss were the enforcers, and the smaller trolls were the laborers. It would explain why they betrayed the fell god and others giants by helping Marika in her genocide. In term of chronology, I'd believe the Giants were first and worshipped a meteorite in the central crater, but once the cataclysm came, they fell into disarray and retreated to their only remaining safe haven in the mountain tops, far from the rampaging lava now covering the lower areas, whence the Dragon and their Beastmen were able affirm their authority and started the worship of the great tree depicted in Farum Azula (perhaps the great tree sprouted or was first planted on the ground that held the meteorite?), then afterward came the Erdtree era when the Erdtree was grafted unto the root system of the Great Tree.
The fighting between the Dragons and Giant probably happened early in their history, as in, the Dragons were probably just as old as the giants and were occasionally skirmishing with no real winner, but the big boys were greatly advantaged by the Fell God arrival and the subsequent creation of the art of smithing, which could have given them an edge against their flying thunder wielding nemesis.
About the Numen, as they're an obvious reference to the Numenoreans of Tolkien Silmarillion, we can assume they have a similar history in the Land Between, where they weren't the first civilisation around but been present since the early aeons of the world, perhaps they were the first to worship the Greater Will, long before it made it enforced its authority with the Erdtree? So they could have been around back when Farum Azula and even the Giants were running things, but were a very minor power that kept to itself, unable to compete with the Giants and Dragons that were busy duking it out.
It could be that the "Crucible" of the Beasts is not entirely metaphorical, and based on the massive molten reliquified impact crater.
I think evidence points to the Elden Beast being a relatively recent, by comparison, arrival.
Also, it was unmentioned in the video, but if a cataclysm did scour the surface, it's likely any humans from before it who survived would have done so in the underground areas.
@@Kevin-cf9nl I’m just confused by Hyetta’a dialogue, which implies that all life was unified before the Elden Ring arrived. Yes, Hyetta’a words can be questioned but this is the one time we hear of the One Great, and her words come directly from the Three Fingers.
I think the Elden Beast's star (meteor) is that second major catastrophic impact that reliquefies the crust. Regarding Hyetta, I think it's very hard to tell what she's saying there, it seems deliberately ambiguous. "All that there is came from the One Great. Then came fractures, and births, and souls. But the Greater Will made a mistake." I think this original fracture is the spreading of the Five Fingers from the One Great (becoming Manus Celes/Crucible) and that the Greater Will then later makes a mistake by splitting two and three from five. I see the GW's transgression not as the birth of life itself but the birth of morality, or dualism, or original sin if you like. Eating from the tree of knowledge of good and evil, ("Torment, despair, affliction... every sin, every curse. Every one, born of the mistake.") pitting forces which once coexisted in relative harmony against each other. To me, all this nonsense about life coming only as a result of the Greater Will/Elden Ring is pure propaganda by its servants trying to assert their own faith as the true dogma of the world. This channel talks a ton about the legitimacy of rulers and the strategies which they've used to claim rightful authority throughout history, I believe that is what is at work with the assertions of GW/ER primacy.
Sorry I'll stop there, I could probably ramble on for another 10 paragraphs about this.
And for all the Golden Order fundamentalists out there here's a disclaimer: this is just, like, my opinion man (though I am interpreting the lore through Nietzschean and Gnostic ideas, which I think have a pretty apparent influence on FromSoft's worldbuilding).
i have to thank you, TA. i've recently discovered a passion for history, and have recently been studying roman history - in thanks due to this channel. i've also studied earth sciences in the past year, including geology, and so watching this video struck another different special chord with me. just as our world is ancient and complex, your videos help reveal how the world created by martin and miyazaki is also enormous, in a way that mystifies at the surface. your videos not only help me appreciate this game more, but have also helped encourage me to enrich my own life.
keep studying!
These videos are mind boggling good. Literally some of the best and most captivating content ive watched on youtube in 15+ years on the site.
I love that you lure in us video game nerds with promises of lore to teach us about real world history, archaeology, and mythology!
Wonderful analysis! The arrival of the Fell God as a meteoric impact makes it even more clear to me that Fromsoft drew inspiration from Roman mythology in the form of Vulcan. The fire, smithing, lame leg of the Fire Giant (an allusion to Vulcan's crippled leg after being hurled from Olympus), and the Eye of Jupiter are several examples. For months though, I've been wondering if Vulcan was more than a nod to these myths.
Giordano Bruno was a theologian who wrote "The Expulsion of the Triumphant Beast", a philosophical work in the form of a dialogue that led to his burning at the stake by the Catholic Inquisition for mocking the pope, Jesus Christ, and harshly criticizing Christianity, among other charges.
In it Jove (Jupiter) convenes a council of gods to rearrange the constellations above, thus reforming the world below, into a personality of a Beast. It is made up of primarily Solar influences, with Jovial (Jupiter) and Venereal (Venus) as well. Ursa Major is the primary constellation banished. It was called Helike, ("turning" or "twisting") because it turns around the celestial pole. The Odyssey notes that it is the sole constellation that never sinks below the horizon and "bathes in the Ocean's waves". This description of Ursa Major fits quite well with the Elden Beast we find in-game. Furthermore, I believe the ancient dragons represent the aforementioned influences with their golden flesh (Solar/Apollo), fire (Venus), and lightning (Jove). One then wonders if the Greater Will is the will of not one, but several gods.
Farum Azula is also very Jupiter-coded to me with its lightning, storms and eagles, all symbols of the king of the gods.
I'm upset with RUclips for taking this long to provide one of your videos in my recommended feed.
Instant subscription. Quality editing, clear explanations, devil's advocate counter-arguments to evidences, and a great voice to deliver the whole package. This is my new favorite channel for settling down for bed.
Not finished with the video yet, but one thing I've always thought of was how much the Fell God's eye reminds me of black holes. The swirling fire alike an accretion disk.
I stumbled upon your videos in the recs and binge-watched your channel the other day, and man oh man, your analysis, your parallels with the real human history are absolutely brilliant! I'm going to show this to anyone who ever says video games do not inspire or educate people. I wish you an exponential gain of subscribers, because honestly, your channel has to be the best lore channel for Elden Ring. Thank you for such compelling narration, such awesomely thought-out historic examples and all-in-all highest quality content. Thank you for sharing!
There’s a sort of magic that happens with this channel
Right?? It's got that same ''revelation'' feeling that early EpicNameBro used to give me about Dark Souls 1 and Bloodborne
My favourite time of day is when I see a new tarnished archaeologist video
Fire Giants: "Did it hurt?"
Fell God: "Did what hurt?"
Fire Giants: "When you fell from software?"
KEK!
Underrated
Broooo
This blew my mind. I cannot express how great this video is.
My jaw was on the floor.
The revelation that the towers were built by the titans 🤯 that they surround the sea because it's a meteor crater 😲 which was caused by the titans building the towers welcoming The Fell God who's arrival caused the Land's crust to reform, thus burying the Titans and their entire civilisation in molten rock.
Incredible. Amazing that you figured it out and breathtaking that FromSoftware laid these breadcrumbs with just architecture and terrain design.
Masterful video as always! I would kill for a Tarnished Archaeologist timeline of the Lands Between, to put all the pieces together. Please tell me you're planning to release it one day!
One more thing that i'd like to note is that the unused Lava Stone Giant face model in the old trailers seems to fall in line with everything mentioned in this video. Great work!
You have no idea how excited I am everytime you all upload, thanks for all the great content
This is possibly the best video on Elden Ring / Fromsoft lore I have seen. I appreciate how strictly evidence based your interpretations are whereas so many other lore videos dive into outright speculation from the start. Well done!
When I started watching this I was skeptical and it felt a bit far fetched but holy shit I underestimated you and it's not the first time lol. There are just too many connections for it all to be a coincidence. Like the Fel God eye symbol blew my mind, that can't be bias right? And the use of the meteor textures. I just can't imagine that being a coincidence. Well done mate, you are quickly becoming one of the best Fromsoftware loremasters out there, Good job
This goes so good with my bong rips
Wow incredible archeology. Im beyond amazed and impressed, this is awesomeee. And props to the designers
Props to the designers, for sure
the from lore hunter bar was already so high, yet you managed to bring it on a completely new level.
your channel is a treasure, thank you.
fwiw radahn castles is filled with those bundles that always remind me of the mussollini´s "fascio di combattimento" symbol...
This...was awesome.
My head is spinning right now. I keep thinking about those giants on Nox thrones underground. How do they relate to this?
Due to their composition,I suspect the Ancient Dragons literally came from one such impact, or at least, one significantly affected the course of their evolution. Their relation to the Ancient Giants is something I can only speculate upon, but unless they too had bigger ancestors, they likely came after the colossi. Nonetheless, I do believe they and later civilisations placed great importance on the work they left behind,given the current position of the Fingers, who have been working for a t least a few ages by now.
What do you think the Fell God actually is? On one hand, it is comparable to an Outer God. On the other hand, it literally uses all it's folllowers as vessels, in what is called a "solitarry curse" for the Fire Giants. It sounds,quite frankly, rather unpleasant. Still, did they really surrender?
Edit: Question, though:
Why does the Forge take us to Farum?
Fell God awfully sounds like Fallen God to me
@@allthe1 Just like Prometheus and Lucifer, no?
@@Doomed_Traveler Great ideas, both of you. The idea they may be fallen reminds me of Astel, too, being described as a " Naturalborn "; essentially a polite word for bastard.
Could it be he has a scary big bro?
Why does the forge take us to Farum? I think the simplest answer is that's where Destined Death is. There may be deeper answers than that though.
@@Doomed_Traveler Shoot, someone mentioned elsewhere that in the japanese version the Fell God is simply called something like the Evil Deity. There goes this whole idea!
I've noticed little bits a pieces of clues you mentioned but never thought on it as hard as you do. Love watching you video. That was one hell of a cliffhanger...
thanks!
I figured that the Divine Towers were a reference to the story of the Tower of Babel. The difference is that there is an actual Divine Ambassador known as the Two Fingers at every tower except for the one Ranni cut her soul from her body as she most likely attempted to harm the Tower’s Two Fingers at the same time. It’s a very complex and confusing structure that pre-dates most civilizations. Maybe it’s connected to the Ancient Dragons civilization because the Dragons civilization is older than the Golden Order and the Erdtree but it’s difficult to say for sure who built the Divine Towers. I never considered the Giants before today as the possible builders of the towers.
I could listen to you on my second monitor for hours while working, honestly. It's really soothing and awesome. 10/10
The fact that the erdtree itself seems to be growing out of the exact same crater in the middle of the map could suggest that this meteor was the one carrying the elden beast and with it the elden ring
Ending the prehistoric era and starting a new one, it's very thematically appropriate, doubt it's an accident
I was honestly wondering that
But the divine towers predate even the crucible "saint and tree" era. That was before the Erdtree. I guess it could have been a meteor with the seed of the Great Tree? "The crucible" would be a fitting name for an era where the crust of the Lands Between becomes reliquefied. But I don't think it's that either.
I think the point is that the Greattree/Erdtree had the opportunity to grow as much as it did was because the soil was fertile with ample access to water and minerals.
2:32 respect to the dude trying to ruin a trespasser's shot with the sign
I built them! I had to farm all of Tilted Towers to get enough mats to build it
i feel so dumb for not realizing this sooner, and i thought i actually pay attention to From's narratives... amazing! thank you so much for the insights!
Each meteorite is surrounded by 8 pot marks. And Eight of those meteorites surround the center of meteroite locations each divine tower.
Reflecting a fractal like repetition of the Fell God's symbol... Curious then that there are only 6 divine towers in game.
Where there two other towers? And if so what happened to them? Because the six we see in game form an even Hexagon. So if there were 8 towers. Something shaped the land to rearrange the remaining six.
Marika’s removal of death could be one, would the other one be related to Ranni’s great rune? “Shaping the land” at least lines up with the Rune of death being removed by Marika and her obsession with order/her hubris. Could have been ole’ Raddy himself too, what with being such a Good Boy ™️ for the greater will.
Probably not but eh.
@@yurinoworry I like the idea that the rings of the Fell God's symbol are part of an Elden Ring in it's own right, but I'd speculate that each reduction or rearranging of the Elden Ring represents a unique shattering and reforging event; In the pre-tower-Builder age, they were 8+1big circle. By the time the divine towers were build, it had already been reduced to 6+1. That one was shattered and reforged into the Farum Azula Ring... the quatra-foil ring... many of the windows in the Manus Celest cathedral have odd part-of-trefoils and 1/2-foils in their arches.
@@yurinoworry Imma need to do some checking on some information. But i would theorize whatever age came after the giants, presumably the age of the dragons would have done something to remove two towers and reshape the terrain to strike a blow to the previous ages belief system. By repurposing their monuments and arranging them in hexagon instead of their original shape it would serve too supplant and replace their rule.
Im not sure if the number 6 has any significance in the ancient dragons society in farum azula but worth some digging
The opening of this video was so well done, I was captivated by the Stonehenge discussion and totally forgot I was watching an Elden Ring video for a sec.
When I first saw these towers I immediately thought of the Anglo-Saxon phrase I learned through Tolkien - "brosnað enta geweorc", the "decaying work of Giants", made famous by the poem "The Ruin" which probably refers to the Roman ruins at Bath observed over a half-millenium after their construction. Tolkien obviously loved this idea, e.g. think of Orthanc and the near-supernatural scale and quality of its construction. Anyway this immediately communicated to me the 'idea' of these towers. All of these details and conclusions escaped me though, except for the curious and unmistakable volcanic rock textures that I recognized from elsewhere in the overworld. Either way, man has grown feeble in comparison with his forebears.
Every video is just as impressive as the last. As always, very well done!
Best ER lore channel by far.
Glad you enjoy it!
Every time he says something mind blowing, it's instantly obvious looking at it.
Absolutely THE most underrated elden ring content creator. I love this channel and learned more here than anywhere else on YT. Well done, sir
TA: "But that, as they say, is a story for another time"
Me, every time: "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"😭
Still one of my favorite theory videos, and I agree with nearly everything here. I'd also note this is one of the earliest lore videos to imply the existence of a much MUCH bigger Great Tree.
Emgagement! Because this man deserves Vattividya view numbers.
Really good shit my guy - never would’ve even noticed the Fell God symbol
I really would dig if someone made artistic renders of all this prehistory of the Lands Between. Even rough sketches or simple 2D cross-section diagrams would be great visualisers.
A timeline chart would be dope too. RUclipsr JaR hEd69's "Usurping Theory" timeline comes to mind. Impressive work from him.
ive had the meteor and builder giants idea in my head, but i never thought to connect them through the divine towers. youre a genius
The elevators don't use gravity magic. If you trigger the switch and step off, you'll see that the elevator is actually a pillar that is raised upwards.
What do you think moves the massive pillar 🤔 my guess is gravity magic but that's up to debate
@@jayquickscope4446 I would think so too. What's the alternative? I can't think of any, outside the real world contemporary era
Bruh
For the love of the Universal Gods!! As a PhD in Physics which listened many thesis presentation this was real high-level academic research work! Superb! I am really happy to have discovered you!
Thanks. Glad to have you!
Fantastic work as per the usual! I'm really hoping one day you'll dig into those damned cube structures found in Limgrave, Liurnia and WP. The always have ruin fragments on them, are almost always found right side up if not at least tilted and have no part of them that looks like they were connected to Farum Azula other than the design. The architecture is the same but I also can not find any evidence of these structures in FA, so what are they? Were they free floating before FA's destruction? Why are none of them flipped upside down? Maybe these aren't important but they are some of the first ruins of Farum Azula you come across in game as a few can be seen after you exit the Stranded Graveyard. They are usually around the larger rounded broken ruins that looks far more like FA. More interesting about these is that all of the ruins found from FA in the aforementioned regions have none of the more elaborate designs of FA, like the embedded skeletons. Love your work!
They are definitely ruins of FA. The question is, why are there no embedded beast-men burials in the fallen ruins, as opposed to those in FA?
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Exactly! Like none anywhere besides the Sanctum in Caelid but oddly doesn't feature the cube structures.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist There's a Chinese folk story called the Great Bell in which a craftsman keeps trying to make a bell for the emperor but fails each time in the casting process until his daughter throws herself into the molten alloy, her sacrifice creating the perfect mixture of metals for the bell. My theory is that the ruins have fallen because no such beast-men have been imbedded within its walls, so they lack the mystical energy to sustain themselves afloat.
DLC tends to confirm many of this, albeit some differences or additions.
(but the first meteore could be Metyr as well, cause she's canonically the first meteor to land. If we suppose she's "in the Lands Between" and not in another dimension. However, the Fell god makes more sense visually and thematically).
What if the giant forge broke open and spilled molten rock all over the lands between and buried everything along with the giants themselves?
seems unlikely it held that much molten lava, BUT it definitely looks as though the bottom broke and thats exactly what happened... it is very plausible, and might actually be what truly happened.
@Imminent I also felt like it was big enough either but I like the idea lol
I like the idea. Why is the vessel cleft like that in the first place? We should see if the deposits could possible be emanating from the cauldron.
the slag on the mountain really does look like its flowing in a line. more than on the towers
@jaceyates6315
Might have been part of the process of the Giants (modern) defeat by Marika. As we know the flame was almost extinguished (and indeed there is only one living Fire Giant), perhaps that slag is from that event. Indeed, if anywhere escaped the proposed cataclysm of the past it'd be the mountaintops anyway
I'm just amazed how every video you drop new gems that not ONE other content creator has mentioned. This pre civilization and the molten lava/rock is just mind blowing.
i always thought the fire giants built the towers (note the eight circles arranged radially about a larger ninth, present at the peaks, much like the eye of the fell god)
You clearly didn’t watch the video properly, he mentioned this exact thing in section 3
@@RollMeAFat1 it was meant to be a statement of agreement, not indignation. my apologies.
Why add the note in parentheses then as if you are trying to inform him of something?
@@handtomouth4690 because i'm very used to being asked "source" and do it out of habit.
@@kaimerry1587 Too much internet brain
Even if there is no elden ring content to make anymore, your stongehenge chapter was so cool, i would watch every real life archealogy content you produce!❤
Good to know!
Does elden ring have the best world building in gaming. Everything in the worlds construction is just so impressive and detailed.
Did not expect to hear a song in Swedish, and a great song from Astrid Lindgren at that, being sung in an Elden Ring video. Real neat.