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How Marika Rose to Power | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 23
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- Опубликовано: 14 авг 2024
- Elden Ring Lore: discover the hidden mysteries and forgotten rituals of Death in the Lands Between.
#eldenring #eldenringlore #Marika #tarnishedarchaeologist
Gameplay footage/music credit: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware (Yuka Kitamura)
References:
u/NamelessSinger post on Twinbird
/ one_dragon_two_dragon_...
Music:
Elden Ring Theme, Anna Ellsworth;
Video:
Rome and The Vatican |Amazing Drone Footages| 4k Ultra HD. Wanderer (RUclips) • [ 4K ] Rome and The Va...
Birth of Jesus. Mystical City. • 05 Birth of Jesus in B...
Augustus, Funeral Pyre, (Rome, HBO, ); The Destiny of Rome (2011, France)
Mausoleum of Augustus, Sky Surfers;
Church of the Nativity, Neverstopexploringworld;
Ancient winemaking, LookHereMars;
Resin, Salvador Villa;
Akhenaton, Egyptology with Zahi Hawass;
Giza, travel experience;
Hussein Statue, CNN;
Gwyn statue, Retro & a.akamaihd;
Photo:
Archaeopteryx Skeletal restorations of various specimens. Jaime A. Headden (User:Qilong) - qilong.devianta...
Reconstruction of elite male burial, with some of the world's oldest gold jewellery, c. 4,500 BC Photo from Mark Ahsmann
2nd-century AD Roman statue of a Virgo Vestalis Maxima (National Roman Museum). Photo from Rabax63 - Own work
Relief of libation to a vegetation goddess (ca. 2500 BCE) found in ancient Girsu, at the Louvre.
Roman bronze statuette of a priest, his head ritually covered, extending a patera in a gesture of libation, 2nd-3rd century CE. Photo by Wolfgang Sauber - Own work
Scene of sacrifice, with a libation poured from a jug (Pothos Painter, Attic red-figure krater, 430-420 BCE). Marie-Lan Nguyen and one more author - Own work
Mughal Emperor Akbar (r. 1556-1605) holds a religious assembly in the Ibadat Khana (House of Worship). Miniature painting by Nar Singh, ca. 1605
Manuscript BnF Grec 510 (Homilies of St. Gregory of Nazianzus). Miniature of the First Council of Constantinople (AD 381). Bibliothèque nationale de France
Vestal virgin and sacred flame. Helene Guerber
Vestal virgins by Jean Raoux, 1727, now displayed at the Palais des Beaux-Arts in Lille, France.
House of the Vestal Virgins (Atrium Vestae), Upper Via Sacra, Rome. Photo by Carole Raddato
Vestal virgins and pontifex. Author: Rudolf Cronau. (1919).
A Nun and her Attendant - A history of Madeira, 1821.
A nun from the Abbaye de Montmartre in 1718
Catacombs of Rome. An engraving from Le Magasin Pittoresque,1860s. Adolphe Rouargue
Images:
Augustus of Prima Porta, Leemage; Apollo Belvedere, Livioandronico2013; Hermes of Praxiteles, Carole Raddato; Vestals, Rabax63 and PaulineM; Iconoclasm, WikiRigaou; Achnaton tomb I, NYPL;
Contents of the Video
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00:00 Prelude
00:50 Intro
04:42 Chapter 1: An Empire of Death
11:34 Chapter 2: Death Libations
18:33 Chapter 3: Libation of Rebirth
28:20 Conclusion
"Either that, or they are just reused assets. But where is the fun in that?"
The reason for Tarnished Archeologists entire career 😂
Miyazaki: "We just kind of slapped things together. It's suggestive you know. If it made sense it wouldn't be suggestive".
(not a real quote)
@@Xandros999 Love it 😂
Honestly though even if all of this is just coincidence and none of it was planned I enjoy this break down of the lore more than any other I've seen.
I am of the opinion that almost everything in modern from soft games have some purpose other than just to fill space though
If you look closely you’ll notice that the statues aren’t all identical models though, and still all have their hands cut off in the exact same way, so it does seem rather deliberate. The statues also seem to be in otherwise good condition
@@lukelcs8934 I dont know, to me what he said sounded pretty dumb regardless. I think its a common fallacy called wishful thinking.
I only just realised that you wear the Marais mask because it raises Arcane, and Arcane boosts "Discovery". Well played.
Tarnished Archaeologist Archaeology.
Though, wearing the skinned face of an albanauric would be the true professional's choice.
What are the implications of it not being the silver tear mask, though? 🤔
I keep forgetting to check if the silver mimic tear mask or marais mask increases it more. But marais mask is much prettier regardless, and fashion comes before function in soulsbonering
Oohhhhhhhh 😂😂
I just realised, not only did Marika lose her (possibly) favored son and heir in Godwyn but he also became the very avatar of Death - Death she ceaselessly fought - in the process. What cruel twist of fate.
in other words "you get what you fucking deserve"
I just imagined red finish screen saying "GET FUCKT" as Marika watches Destined Death seeping from Godwyn's corpse.
No wonder she hoped Miquella would succeed (as per TA's last few videos), and rid Godwyn of his fate, and start an entirely new dynasty
*this f*cking game is **_crazy_*
well yeah, you can't fight death lolol
Humans being only cremated in farum azula makes sense when you realize there’s no reanimated human skeleton enemies.
Excellent point!
Great video; I like the comparison of Farum Azula to the Pthumerians, since both are fundamentally necropoli - Farum Azula being a mausoleum before all else (which would also help explain why the funerary rites are so central there).
But I would like to suggest - Marika is also a ‘rebalancing’ in her own time. She emerges in an era of death, and declares she will make an era of life; the Ghostflame pyres explicitly created resentful spirits, and the Fell God’s flame was not yet ‘contained’ on the mountaintop. The world was not in balance in the prior order, either, because - and this is a fundamental part of Miyazaki’s storytelling, drawing on Buddhist ideas - no age is forever. Marika was chosen as an Empyrean, after all, just as her heirs were.
My point being, because we come along at the end of the Age, we are inclined to see ourselves as a balancing figure restoring a ‘natural’ order, but every Order is an act of gods in this world, and so the prior order was equally the work of great powers, and equally ideological. Marika was to her age what we will be to ours, a figure who reacted to the prior imbalance with a new order and then, surely, that order too will end in time. Impermanence, inevitably. The Golden Order lasted an age, for good or for ill, and the Lands Between have no ‘first nature’ separate from the second nature of the Elden Ring.
👏
This mirrors the idea of a dialectical view of history birthed out of Hegel and most famously reinterpreted by Karl Marx. Every society is moved by its internal contradictions, which give rise to an antithesis, which leads to a new synthesis with its own contradictions. Grossly oversimplified, but still very cool to see creators using real history and philosophy so much, a deep richness of reality building a fun reflection of fantasy.
It would track well that the GEQ and her godskins would rule by means of a tyrannical 'order' of death; "obey or die". And that a maiden giving life to dead warriors would upend such and order.
I like this point of view, and I think it highlights the courage and the heroism of Marika in a sense, even if in the end she obviously clinged too much on what she believed, a favorite trope of Miyazaki's.
In this view, Ranni's actions (if we choose her ending) seem to be the key to restore a true balance. By taking the responsibility of power on her shoulders but at the same time by moving away from the world, she assures that her desires will never force the Lands Between in an unbalanced state, like they were during Marika's reign.
@@icosahydro I like your point about Marika’s heroism… but Ranni is the most like Marika of all her children. Overthrowing a prior order with a radically new idea of what exactly everything needs to function, replacing the guiding faith of the Erdtree with an empty night sky suddenly and without explanation… Ranni’s reacting to Marika’s micromanagement of the world by completely removing herself from managing the world her Order creates. A reaction that I think is not necessarily less given to ‘imbalance.’
You should do like a 7 hour summary of the actual history and story of Elden ring once you feel like you’ve completely covered it all here, we’d all watch the whole thing.
Edit : I now personally believe that a series of shorter videos (20-30 mins) covering each historical era of Elden Ring would be the most effective way of explaining the timeline. That way it’s more in line with how TA does things now, and it’s more realistic regarding workload and context for the audience to consume in one single sitting. They could then be placed in a playlist and together would be something like 2 or so hours.
God no. People who can't keep their thoughts concise and clearly expressed who just decide to vomit out massive hours long mega essays are the WORST. 60 minutes is the MAX I would give anybody for anything like this. I DESPISE the trend of "4 hour youtube essay composed almost entirely of verbal diarrhea".
Why not just make a playlist?
@@natk8541 it would be a historical summary of the lands between, so that all thoughts and ideas can be expressed and explored in full without the audience feeling left out/behind when it comes to this particular understanding of the lands between. I for one enjoy long-form content much more then shorter, as it allows me to focus on other things, much like a podcast. It would also allow for a good starting off point for any new audience members. If they are interested in a particular topic spoken of in the summary they can go watch the more in-depth videos about that particular topic.
And I for one don’t think that 4 hours of tarnished archeologist would be anywhere close to verbal diarrhea :(
The idea of playlists also works
Not to mention many of us absorb many different Elden ring lore channels with competing narrative understandings of the wider history, and an overall summary would be helpful in cementing tarnished archaeologists view of things to a wider audience.
So glad Ive been binging this channel before the DLC comes out so when it does I can spend 27 hours per area analyzing every rock and brick for details like the ones pointed out in here. Thanks so much for making these, theyre super fun
That is our DLC plan too ;)
Another observation that may link the Gloam-Eyed Queen to cremation rituals is the fact that the Spirit-Caller Snail can summon the spirits of the Godskins within the Spirit-Caller Cave, and that we receive the Godskin Swaddling Cloth upon killing the boss.
How does that link to cremation rituals?
@@Xandros999 I believe it would be because ghostflame cremation creates vengeful spirits, and the spirit caller snail we fight there calls upon spirits of godskins therefore it may hint at the death ritual of burning the dead (since they can be recalled).
@@Xandros999 spirit ASHES are made from cremation. That these two godskins were cremated, and that the Spirit-Caller Snails are protecting the Swaddling Cloth, links the GEQ to cremation practices.
@@Xandros999Summoning is done using spirit ashes. Ashes are produced by cremation. In other words, the Snail is a being specially adapted to using the ashes produced by cremation, indicating it to belong to a time when cremation was the main method of burial, giving it an ample supply of spirits for protection and finding food.
This is likely why they are currently very rare. Without a supply of ashes, and thus spirits, they are incredibly vulnerable, and were likely hunted to near extinction.
Adding to my original comment to say that Snails are mostly crepuscular and nocturnal, coming out at dusk, or at the time of GLOAMing. This seems fairly pertinent to the Gloam-Eyed Queen.
"Finger maidens are the remaining cultural legacy of those old libation priestesses"
😮 my mind is blown once again
This is the the best channel no doubt
Thanks!
Big thanks to the Archaeologist to cope with the wait for the DLC
It’s good to know we’re not alone with the wait of the dlc.
*IT'S GOOD TO KNOW WE ARE LEGENDS FROM THE LANDS BETWEEN THE FOG. **#ELDENLORD** **#ELDENLEGENDS** **#ELDENRING* @@gameframeinc.3389
and yet we still wait, together
@@flotots After the TGA I was devastated... the copium is real
Togethaaaaaaa...
I've realized something recently thanks to Smoughtown's video on Outer Gods and how they relate to Kami, and what you have said about the themes of balance. I think that the Greater Will's purpose, and the motivation for it's actions, is to achieve balance. Marika evidently tried to upset the balance between life and death, which the Greater Will didn't like. Same for the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who perhaps brought about too much death, or upset some other balance.
My point main is that the Two Fingers, as missionaries of the Greater Will, are in a way representative of this theme of duality and balance. It has two fingers, two counterparts, two opposites: one finger for life and one for death, one for male and one for female, one for chaos the other for order. Their existence, down to their very shape, is representative of this absolute duality. The fingers are equal in length, meaning that things must be equally balanced.
I've read in another comment on one of Smoughtown's videos that the Three Fingers are in sorts a mockery of the Two Fingers. Instead of two fingers of equal length, there's three uneven and unorderly fingers, as if to say "to hell with all this balance and duality"
I like how Elden Ring plays with the themes of forces of nature and the inability to ever truly lord over them. All of this slow decay and stagnation could've been avoided if things were left to their natural progression. The Lands are Between Life and Death perpetually in purgatory. Truly the Lands Between.
A ring after all has no end, but if you remove a part of it, it is no longer a full cycle, but a fractured arc constantly progressing back and forth but never making a full loop. A bit like a pendulum.
I have been commenting a challenge question on just about every lore video I can find: "The Lands Between _what_ and _what_ ?"
And you're the first person, in video or comment, to actually answer it.
this game is so deep and the tarnished archeologist is such a genius of his art.
The longer it takes to balance things out, the worse the event that forces things back to normal will be, Maliketh's own dialogue says so, even with all the deathroots he's still not satisfied, Melina says the world needs indiscriminate death.
Although we see the Rune of Death after we defeat Maliketh, it was already missing several pieces, several on the Black Knife Assassin's knives, the ones that are in the bodies of Godwyn and Ranni, and the last one that we discover is what is in Melina's eye , maybe if it were complete the Rune of Death would be like the roots we saw in Farum Azula describing the Elden Ring of that era.
I find that there's a lot of themes surrounding cycles of nature, life and death being constituent part, in Elden Ring. I wonder if you would ever make a video about seasonal imagery? Marika represents summer, Radagon and his children are the fall, and Ranni ushers in winter. The necessity of changing seasons is at odds with Marika's desire to create an endless summer, yet she only delays the inevitable
Perhaps then , Miiquela, who has his mother's hair and is eternally youthful, represents Spring, the promise of a new summer that never came to be..
Even on the map, we have Summer in Limgrave, Autumn in Altus Plateau, Winter over the Mountaintops of the Giants and a failed Sping further North, at the Haligtree. A cycle that was broken.
Dreams of an endless summer also were the delusion of many a noble in GRRM's ASoIaF series...
@@Reliken The cycle of seasons is indeed a strong theme in ASoIaF, so it's very possible it was written into ER as well.
@jake_ I like your idea. I imagined that Miquella can represent a fall harvest since he is associated with abundance. Malenia represents the decay of the falling leaves, which is necessary to create a healthy soil in the forest. Or something like that, it's hard to articulate but you sense it
I also tend to think of the cycle of the day, given the game itself has an inbuilt clock. The early crucible age was red, like the sunrise, Marika's age is gold, like the day, the forces that are now moving against Marika e.g. the scarlet rot, giants flame, formless mother, serpent, rune of death, etc. are all red like sunset, and Ranni of course is dark/blue like night time. Very very long ago (nox et al) were perhaps the previous iteration of the night.
Just wanted to express the joy I feel every time a new video of thoughtful, well worded, considerate and unstressed evaluation or study comes out. Very enjoyable to watch even after the second or third time.
I wonder if Spirit Ashes exist as a feature of the world because the Gloam Eyed Queen created a new form of death that allowed her beloved wolves to stay with her eternally.
That is a very good question. And would make the Lone Wolves ashes that we get from "Renna" to be veeeeery interesting...
I think they are people trapped in a state of undeath after they have been burned.
@@wanderingshade8383 What with the old crone in the woods who knew cold magic and who has never been seen in the same room as the Gloam-Eyed Queen?
Regarding the human royals depicted in Farum Azula, I’ve wondered if they are actually the dragons in human form. This might be consistent with the notion that the dragons were the ruling class.
They might have come up with the concept of a human themselves, or with the aid of the GW, or they might have borrowed the template from their contemporaries, the Numen.
On this note, if it is the case that the dragon age existed with or alongside the Numen as allies or citizens, the practice of assigning shadows to Empyreans might date back to a practice of assigning beast men as attendants during the dragon age. 🤓🥸😵💫
I always thought the humans came from beyond the sea, since there are human kingdoms/nations outside the Lands Between. The LB are a sort of intermediary between the metaphysical and the physical, hence the outer gods trying to gain a foothold on it, but they don't do it in the lands outside the lands between, because those places are "mundane", they are entirely in the physical realm, hence why the descendants of the tarnished, when they get the sight of grace from Marika are hauled from the places they live in, because the concept of magic is alien to the people living there.
If you look at where Matika is holding the libations, right in front of her womb with her hands forming an oval. Quite significant indeed
Exactly!
Once again proving why this is the most important Elden Ring channel on RUclips. Thanks for all your hard work and repeated efforts to deconstruct this beautiful mystery while showcasing the human inspirations that they were drawn from. Fantastic work.
If you're looking for a meaning behind the hands being removed, maybe it has something to do with the two and three fingers. If the statues had a gesture relating to the two, then they'd be removed for signifying a connection between death and the Greater Will. If it's a gesture of three fingers, it'd be removing any connection to the Flame of Frenzy and the Greater Will.
Good point...
Iirc, TA also mentioned that there are 2-finger sigil banners in one of the ancient hero's grave-sites. It would be another perfect example of Iconographic stratigraphy.
How about a full five, revealing that both forces are technically from the same source,and that death has always been a sacred law of creation for both of them?
Now, admittedly, nobody eould immediately conclude these things without proper context. It'd just look like a woman holding her full hand out for some reason.
@@alyseleem2692 To be fair, the symbology being lost on people outside of the culture has never stopped an iconoclast before.
Maybe the gesture had 5 fingers, the Church of Manus Celes references the 5-finger "hand" worship, which had to be far into the past, possibly linking the time of Destined Death with the pre-Schism "full 5 finger hand".
It would also tie in nicely with the 5 fingers as a sign of "intelligence bestowed upon the Beasts" in Farum Azula, which now seems definetely linked deep with the transition from beastmen burial to human cremation with Ghostflame, and therefore the Gloam Eyed Queen and Destined Death.
Flame of Frenzy is part of Greater Will, because in GW fundamentalism there is a Law of Regression - all things yearns eternally to converge into one.
Could it be possible that the handless statues once held the Sacrificial Axe weapon you can get as a drop from a Deathbird? It would make sense as the main tool used in sacrificial death rites and be something iconic to that era, which could justify its removal to signify "we don't engage in such practices anymore".
Possibly. Maybe a Winged Scythe. Winged maidens are the Death's gentle Envoys,after all. Deathbirds are more.....
Vicious.
@@alyseleem2692 Putting it that way, the scythe makes more sense.
@@iboofer Oh, it depends. Did the Deathbirds only preside over those who didn't a gentle death, or over warriors? This is a Hero' s Grave, after all.
deathbirds are the winged maidens from the winged scythe but they're dying and decrepit since everyone hates them and fights them all the time now its why theyre so violent and scream at u so u will go away and they can tend the ghostflame in peace
@@okname5335 That is an interpretation, but still. They don't look much like " maidens". Even in their original forms,they are only known to have had plentiful black feathers. They also don't require provocation to attack you. The Sacrificial Axe describes the Deathbird depicted on it as a " malevolent deity", even though the axe was likely created by a worshipper.
Indeed, it's almost as if a Deathbird is more involved in deaths where mercy is not needed, but execution.
Most importantly, Deathbirds do not wield scythes, and do not welcome the dead gently. The tend to a flame. Those are two very different job descriptions. The maidens take you for a gentle death. The Deathbirds cook you till you're well-done, then keep going till you're dust. The two are separate professions.
Remember, the Twinbird has two sides. Death,therefore, must be divided in half. Maidens for mercy, Deathbirds for lack of it.
As an archaeologist by training, this chanel has been such a great find
Same here, even the use of the terminology is usually correct.
I'm so happy we got this many uploads. Keep em coming!
I don't precisely think the statues in Farum Azula are human, per se, if we take into account Marika being one of them. That is,unless we classify Numen in general as human.
The ancestors of the Numen are referred to as " denizens of another world". The kanji used specifically refers to " spirit world", and the sentence is usually used to refer to deities visiting the mortal realm in folklore. In other words, the original Numen were likely as human as an Ancient Dragon is a modern dragon. In other words, not quite.
If we take this into consideration, the Gloam Eyed Queen and Placidusax together makes perfect sense. Two divine races, joined in peace and matrimony, ruling over a vast land and tended to by devoted servants. A match made in heaven, literally.
This is also important because though we reached the conclusion of Marika being a priestess, she was also an Empyrean. And if Empyrean means the same as we see in our age, then she was most likely royalty. As for why she became a priestess...
Someone didn't want her on that throne, it seems.
Regarding the Beastmen, I don't precisely think it was entirely due to classism, though it was likely due to duty. The Beastmen, including Shadows, live to serve and protect their masters; several Beastmen are buried in the very walls of Farum, in imitation of the dragons forming a wall around their Lord. In other words, they wanted to be buried with at least their bodies intact, to continue to protect their masters in death. The Royal Beastmen had the honor of being buried within the walls, close to the urns of their masters and the corpses of dragons.
Regarding the statues with broken hands, I don't think they held libations. They,like those on the surface, could've been easily adapted into Erdtree rebirth iconography if that was true. I don't know what else they might have held, but I have a suggestion:
An empty urn, waiting to be filled with heroic ashes.
something that i noticed after the previous video: some of the watchdogs of the catacombs that are looking after dead returning to roots, have three 3 heads. It might be a bit of a stretch, but i believe that they are inspired by Cerberus, a guardian of the underworld. I know that, at least in Russian translation (as bad as it might be), they are directly called that
I'm surprised you don't think the Farum Azula engravings are of dragons in human form. They tell us specifically that ancient dragons can take the form of humans. I think it would be cool if the engraving of the "ruler" is Placidusax in human form, thats my head canon right now
This is what I think is the case too.
That whole thing with "fled god" isn't talking about some unknown dragon god but the god associated with the dragons, Marika.
Marika, became a god when she came to house the Elden Ring and when she took a consort, the Elden Lord. That Lord was Placidusax in human form.
@@rainbowkrampus I'm not so sure about that, what makes you say that? I think if anything it was the gloam eyed queen Placidusax is implied to be waiting for
@@rainbowkrampus My personal conspiracy theory is that Placidusax is the Storm Lord, meaning the lord of Stormveil, when he was in human form. I think Godfrey defeated the Storm Lord in human form and we find his injured dragon form inside the storm
Yup, we think exactly that, and left it out for a future fully fleshed out episode. Thank you for sparking the discussion
@@buckyhurdle4776 Well, as to that, I think Marika and the Gloam Eyed Queen are one and the same. Though I'm not entirely clear on whether or not that's just a moniker or an entirely separate personality.
Wake Up, it's the archeologist.
Jokes on you, ive been up for weeks waiting
Bro...I LITERALLY just woke up, came outside to smoke, pull up YT, and this is the first comment?
@@njoynda6ickness247h great minds think alike. *takes a bong hit*
Actually the statue in the Chapel of Anticipation with the outstretched hand is not the only copy. There are multiple statues like that in and around the Shaded Castle. For example in the room that you find Miquella's prosthesis, as well as in the 'statue graveyard' to the West of the castle, and also dotted around the castle in general. They line the walls of the room in which you fight Elemer of the Briar. It's possible they exist in other locations that I can't recollect, but Shaded Castle is absolutely littered with them, as well as with other statues.
Tax Evasion could be considered a religious practice.
As an archaeologist who loves Elden Ring, your channel is the niche thing that I needed.
Great video. I really like how you are able to draw so many parallels between the real history and this game's fiction. It's funny when people say "It is just too many re-used assets", it feels like they have not visited any museum or archeological sites. Every civilization re-uses assets...
Are you going to touch the subject of the death rites of the ancestral followers? They seem fascinating to me, located mainly in Siofra river and with a unique view of death.
Or the walking mausoleums ? Death bed companions ?
The catacombs being built around great tree roots never made sense to me. How would anyone know where the roots were if they were underground? It always looked more likely the catacombs were built well before the Erdtree and the roots burst through the walls of the catacombs, sensing the nutrients from the dead bodies.
Very happy to get this today. I just started my second playthrough a couple days ago (I beat it almost a year ago now I guess) and the lore is my primary focus in this playthrough. Your work will be a companion throughout.
you absolutely HAVE to watch the The Eternal City of Leyndell. Even after playing through multiple times and watching hundreds of hours of lore videos, THAT video shook me.
There's a very interesting point I noticed on the positioning of the urn in the libation statues! In the the statues underneath Stormveil, the ones connected to the funeral ritual, the urns are placed at the hip of the figures. In all of Marika's depictions, however, they are very pusposefully placed at the center of her lower stomach. This is to associate the life-giving lubation ritual with her womb, which is the ultimate source of that life
You're one articulate and knowledgeable gentleman. It feels like I'm watching the History channel for The Lands Between.
The cipher pata is a weapon made of words of light bestowed by the two fingers. The two fingers speak with the language of light according to the item description. So it made me think in relation to the whole finger reader thing and people not being able to see the erdtree.
This feels important. But I can't really think on it right now. Just thought I should mention it here.
The mending Rune of the death prince specifically mentions an Order of Death Restored. In the context of this video, that is extremely significant
OMFG THE BLACK KNIFE ASSASSINS....
Numen is probably just an ancient/forgotten word for "women of the faith" or some shit
And Marika was a rebel vestal. And the BKA are her exiled former sisters.
Her being kicked out of the St and Tree nuns for blasphemous thoughts of life after death makes sense.
And her being exiled or abandoning her order and offering rebirth libations personally to Hoarah Louxs army.
I think this video is the most revealing for me personally.
You can play as a male Numen, Its a Race of people from maybe the land or shadows or alternatively the Eternal city. Also Marika might be behind the night of black knives according to some subtext regarding Malekith and some other stuff, and i don't think the Black knives are the order of vestal virgins. If Marika took a bunch of sisters with her when she did what you described, IT kinda makes sense that she gained power being the "priest" of the Tarnished army, but i would like some evidence that the assassins are the libation maidens.
This video is beyond incredible. Im hooked dude. This scratches the right itch
God I love content like this. FromSoft has the best storytelling though scenery & architecture.
Discovered your channel last week and just finished binge watching all your content. Whether you've heard this a hundred thousand times before or not, I must say that this is excellent work. Bravo!
It makes you wonder what happened in Marika's life prior to becoming a god that made her wish to admonish death completely, remove the old libations and seal it away.
Actually, when you think about it every one of Marikas actions as a god is motivated by fear.
The fear of death.
The fear of Gian't Flame.
The banishment of Godfrey and his Tarnished warriors
Installing herself as the only bestower of blessings.
I might be forgetting other stuff.
Fear of being used by the Greater Will. Fear of losing control over the lands between, leading to her shattering the Elden Ring. Fear the Greater Will would contain her within the Erdtree for eternity (why she asked Hewg to smith a weapon to kill her and Radagon). Fear of Renalla, leading her to send Radagon in order to subdue Lucaria. Fear of Godfrey, making him and his warriors tarnished. Fear of her omen children, leading her to send them to the catacombs below Leyndell.
You hit the nail on the head, Marika is a character completely motivated and consumed by fear.
I think it started from her being a Numen refugee, coming to the Lands Between in search of a haven. Then after arriving, she was persecuted by both the Gloam Eyed Queen, and the Giants. Leaving her elevated to a status she wasn’t ready for. Then, lacking an obvious enemy, she became paranoid of even her consort, and children.
@@xxeman445xx aaand it all happened anyway. Kinda sad
The entire gist of souls game is environmental storytelling and you clearly understood the assignment.
I think in essence, Marika removed death from the world which was a mistake and perhaps the whole shattering of the elden ring, was part of a way to get it back somehow. those who live in death strike me as more of an accident; an approximation of the death thats missing in the world.
An approximation ? leaving in death basically means that you're not dead
@@GoulaLegamerwell technically it makes you undead but its not dissimilar to being not dead i guess
undead is literally being alive u can only dead or alive there is no in between that'zs the tricky part@@empyrealcultist1992
now the conditions in which something can be alive is something else but if it's undead it can only be by extension ... alive.@@empyrealcultist1992
I always assumed those who live in dead, is people who wanted to die in the age of Marika’s erdtree.
Hey TA, great video as always. I wonder of you actually have archioligy Background. A "behind the scenes" video would be really interesting, showing how u approach all the sutff u uncover.
Keep going with what you do!
No, he isn't an actual archaeologist. His terminology doesn't match up. It seems more like he's a historian or a classicist at best, or more likely, he could just be someone who surfs the web for history lessons
@@andrewbowen2837 I get the impression there's an academic in the background and that's why it's always "We think" or "According to our research".
@@natk8541potentially. Or it could just be a group of people who scour the internet and articles, and that's what they consider research
So I recently discovered your channel, and have been consuming your Elden Ring videos voraciously. Your analysis of not just the text and subtext itself, but the /con/text and possible inspirations, has expanded my understanding and appreciation of ER's beautiful lore. And I'm starting to piece together a clearer timeline. I'd like to share a conclusion of my own, informed by yours and that of others.
I believe the Storm Lord whom Godfrey fought is none other than Placidusax, the Elden Lord before him. Ancient Dragon Smithing Stones are said to be Placidusax's own scales, and as such are able to lightly twist time, allowing the creation of a weapon capable of slaying a god. Placidusax, mighty as he was/is, is merely a Lord - and later history would show a Lord is often a Consort to a God, lower on the totem pole in spite of their prestige. One does not need a Godslaying weapon to best a Lord. Yet from the scales of the first (true) Elden Lord, a Godslayer can be made. And who was the one to ultimately slay the Gloam Eyed Queen? Maliketh and his Black Blade. If Marika was indeed once part of this vestal priesthood, and knew of Farum Azula and its Dragonlord, she may have known the power of his scales.
the sheer elegance that this man has in his speech is astonishing, keep it up man, best lore channel ever.
The skeletons on the floor of Farum Azula are horses. Look at the skulls closely. The teeth, in particular. I never see anyone mention this, and I'm dying to know the significance. Please help!
Beastmen come in many forms. I think he talked about that in his first video about Farum Azula.
@@wanderingshade8383 It seems like everyone just assumes they are beastmen. Never seen anyone mention the fact that the floor skeletons are horses. Unless you are saying they are horse beastmen. Never seen that anywhere. I will surely rewatch the earlier video again.
@@wanderingshade8383 Those are obviously horses and not beastmen. It's more likely that they were ridden by the beastmen, in fact.
Yea let's not forget the precedent set by Ludwig in beast form
I believe we are meant to believe these are the skulls of the beastmen of farum azula. They used horse skulls as an artistic reference since designing a anatomically similar skull shape would be hard. At least that is what I think. Alternatively, beasts (horses, birds, goats, beastmen, etc.) were buried according to TAs thesis, and humans are cremated.
I just wanted to say, you make the best ER lore videos, by a wide margin. Nobody else offers such compelling and clear explanations of the lore (which is so convoluted that it sometimes seems designed to resist understanding). Not only that, but the myriad links to real historical, religious, and scientific ideas never fail to blow my mind. I audibly gasp at least once per episode, when you reveal some unconsidered connection that seems obvious in hindsight.
one interesting thing to note about "sealing with tree sap" is that the houses in Leyndell which have that root resin looking thing around their doors may have been sealed with tree sap, or, well, root resin.
Best FROMSOFT lore channel, period. Can't wait to see what comes next!
Thanks!
Haven't clicked on a video that fast in a long time. Such interesting content. Well done, and I'll look forward to the next one
This video was honestly pretty on the mark with regards to what we learned in the DLC, especially about Marika's origins in the Shaman Village
Maliketh's arena must've been where the Gloam-eyed Queen resided, before Maliketh killed her. It would explain her as the holder of the rune of death, the ruler of the cremating human civilization of Farum Azula, and the presence of Godskin Duo in the area. She must have been who ruled over the old Elden Ring. As for the 3 wolves around her supposed statue in that arena, I'm not sure what those represent, other than perhaps beasts of Farum Azula, or 3 shadow guardians
I still want to know about the stone imps and burial watchdogs... Why do the watchdogs use glintstone magic?
The priestesses could've become the deathbed companions as their clothes are very similiar. The fingermaidens likely originate from the nightmaidens instead
nightmaidnes and finger maidens both have a funny hat thing and if marika is a numen from the nox that would also explain why the ants down there have numens rune because they are all numens who got there from outside the lands between
Probably the best Elden Ring RUclipsr out there
I suppose a series called Death in the Lands Between wouldn't be complete without exploring the headless wandering masoluem knights and that whole faction, so hopefully you explore it in part 3. I'm very interested in that whole thing, especially since you mentioned the decapitated statues.
By the way, you briefly touched on the Gloam Eyed Queen and how she, or the Gloamed Eye Queen(s) before her, ruled over a crematory (cremating?) society. I guess it helps explain the obvious connection of the Godskins channeling Death's black flame, and ghostflame.
On note of the GEQ and Farum Azula though, the human society seems hard to place. There's beastmen who are lorded over by dragons... so where do the humans fit in? I know there's a lore tidbit about Lansseax that mentions dragons being able to take human form, but only with the phrase "it is said." And I don't know how you would cremate a whole ass dragon so... there had to be real humans at Farum? idk
What blows my mind are the levels and layers of details Fromsoftware invests into the lore. They must have many historians and archaeologists working in the background.
Damn this is incredible. I'm so glad i just subscribed and choose to start going through all your Elden belden vids
These are all so great. Thank you for putting in the time and research.
I’ve watched a lot of Elden Ring lore from many creators, and I have to say yours is by far my favorite. You reach depths of understanding that completely dwarf not only my own but any other creators’ I’ve seen. Amazing work.
Just finished watching all your Elden Ring videos. Just want to say I really like your "show don't tell" attitude, whereby a likely answer to a question you raise is simply alluded to by an image shown with no comment. It's such a great way to invite the viewer into the process of discovery, and also shows a lot of respect for the intelligence of the viewer. Great stuff.
Hm. The one thing that doesn't fully click for me is the connection between ghostflame and the Gloam-Eyed Queen, who used blackflame. I always assumed those two were fully different elements - indeed, in game ghostflame does cold damage while blackflame does fire damage - but your theory here suggests both flames were elements of the Gloam-Eyed Queen's (and her Elden Lord, Placidusax's,) rule.
I'm not sure how that squares with the Twin Bird/Ghost Birds serving their own outer God and their connection to not just the catacombs but also the eternal cities and Helphen/the lampwood/lamplight visible in the Mountaintops of the Giants... Was Helphen, perhaps, the Great Tree that preceded the Erdtree???? Can we still sense its unique version of Guiding Grace, the lamplight, in the mountains of the Giants because that's where it was burned? Perhaps, just like the other flora and fauna burned up there persists in spectral remnants, there's now a "ghost" version of the Great Tree, Helphen, still guiding the dead with lamplight?
I hope you'll do another video focusing on ghostflame and the dead!
That is sort of what keeps feeling slightly off with me too. I think it makes sense if the Gloam-Eyed Queen was a resurgent Crucible era take on Ghostflame, like neo-pagans or the like? Maybe associated with the Serpent God and/or the Giants? Would make sense with all three seeming to be associated with treachery.
@@kaitar0This was my first thought, too! That ghostflame/the Death Birds were one of the earliest strata, though not preceding the Divine Tower fallen meteor worshipping strata, and the Gloam-Eyed Queen moved in and took over; her and the Blackflame were a more modern reinterpretation/reimagining of the ghostflame era and practices. An ironic mirror to the Erdtree following the Great Tree, and Marika deliberately building on but reimagining the older, chaster libation priestesses and their rites.
Great Tree (Helphen?) is to Erdtree as Ghostflame is to Blackflame and GEQ is to Marika.
JUST when I was dying for something to watch!!! ^.^ Thanks! :D
Look at that my day just got better, blessings to you TA and all who watch these videos.
It looks like the statues of "men being carried to cremation" have their arms in a very similar pose to that of Miquella's body.
Incredible video! This makes me wonder, if we go into the past for the DLC, will we see a much darker lands between, where death is the predominant culture? That'd be very interesting, I feel like it would create a really interesting argument between which age was better.
the attention to detail in this game is actually ridiculous. The more I learn about the game the more unbelievable and unreal it seems.
What a start for the Video. ....music at the beginning was awesome.......supreme.
I love the idea of looking at lore through the lens of archaeology. Thank you for another great video :D
Our pleasure!
Real life barrel lore is making me so excited, who'd have thought
Oh God the uploads are coming so quickly, I'm getting addicted
Another masterpiece! 🖤
After watching this the new dlc picture is even more interesting
The picture pieced together by Tarnished Archeologist starts to paint a simple story of Marika as a conqueror. She simply eliminated all the enemies of the Erdtree: the snake, the giants flame, destined death, along with the Gloam-eyed Queen, and was able to enforce her own "order" which was the order of LIFE. The creators may want to tell us that all things in the world needs to be in balance and even if the we make LIFE as the center piece of the order, it still creates a twisted world that is out of balance and bound to fall apart.
I’ve been learning so much about the world and my vocabulary is improving a lot because of your videos. Thank you so much 11/10 videos
I think the hands just fell off, man. You said it yourself, it happens.
It's possible.
This channel has become the definitive channel for me. Not just for clarity and truth of reading into the lore, but for entertainment too. You guys are making such great documentary films. Don’t let people call it “content”
Excellent video as always but this raises some questions:
1. If twinbirds, the envoy of outer god is worshipped in GEQ era, while the elden ring with golden roots is the elden ring of hers, does that mean the outer god of death and the elden beast (which tail resembled the FA's rooted elden ring) is worshipped simultaneously? Or does that mean they are polytheistic in nature?
2. How can we reconcile Godskin black flame, rune of death, and ghostflame if those different flame is related to one single figure, the GEQ?
3. Root resin description stated that catacombs were built around Greattree roots, but we also saw that it predominantly a structure using ghostflames and used to store urns, does that mean the burial practice is pluralistic, allowing many method? Or does the bones were eventually will be buried in large soil field full of bones and roots before the big pile of corpses absorbed by the roots?
4. How about the watchdogs that are affected by crystal darts that also affected golems, which meant the catacombs, golems, giants, and magic user who crafted the darts are related, especially the watchdog uses fire breathing mechanism and magic attacks, seemingly showing the creation of astrologer and giant civilization
5. The ancient dragons themselves, the rulers of the era of dragon and beast are seemingly buried into stone in farum azula though in the dragon temple there is an ancient dragon bone in it, how can we explain it?
6. GEQ is said an empyrean chosen by the Fingers. Not two or three, but just Fingers. It is safe to assume that in GEQ time, it is a full five fingers, but after that it is cut into two and three by the fingerslayer blade? And does subsequently it also the first time Fingercreepers appears?
BUT FINGER CREEPERS HAVE WAY MORE THAN FIVE FINGERS AND LOOKS LIKE A BLOODY SEVERED HAND AT THE WRIST AND SOME OF THEM ARE HUGE AND SOME HAVE MAGIC PURPLE GRAVITY MAGIC RING THINGS AND WHY ARE THERE SO MANY DIFFERENT TWO FINGERS EVERYWHERE AND HOW COME THERES ONLY 1 THREE FINGERS AND THE FLAME OF FRENZY COMES FROM A CHANT OF SORROW LIKE THE MERCHANTS DID AND THE RANDOM CORPSES THAT ARE NEXT TO SHABRIRI GRAPES AND THE SOLDERS ON MT GELMIR NEAR THE FULL GROWN FALLINGSTAR BEAST
I watched this video today and couldn't really avoid to think that the humans depicted in farum azula might just have been the dragons transformed, Lanseax and the dragon cult of Leyndell most certainly confirm this, but I also started a new character today and among the races there is literal "draconic"
Thank You Sir, for these great videos explaining the Lore. You finally helped me understand it alot better than anyone else
Glad to hear it!
You're my fav lore channel of any story, thank you so much for all your work!!! I get excited every time you have a new video!!!
Such a fantastic way to start the day! Thank you TA!
Another home-run by TA. You're my favorite youtuber right now, thank you!
Thanks!
i think it may be possible that the cut off hands where actually hand signs, which could be confused with the two fingers or brought into connection with them.
Since the fingers are current and for the golden order, it would be bad if they had also stood for the death rite before, which would make sense since these veiled maidens became the finger maidens...
I'm getting vibes of "pluralism into dogma and back again" vibes. I feel like everything was once a melting pot of different peoples, races, practices living together and then one tried to dominate them all and thereby doing, absorbed them and with its inevitable decline, things come apart, come together again, but with great loses as to what came before and a deformation of what things have become. An ebb and flow of some kind of ontological dialectic.
But at the same time, we have reactionary almost revisionist forces too... hmm... its as much 'natural' vis a vis the Elden Ring being 'greater' or having more parts in the past, as it is artifical, what with orthodoxies and wars and such.
Its a dialectic of diminishing returns.
Elden ring is a masterpiece that not many people will understand😢
Hell yes. Your vids are tight.
In Colombia, when you are hanging out with friends and drinking alcohol it’s a tradition that every time someone opens a bottle (rum, whiskey, cane alcohol, etc) you have to spill a little bit of alcohol on the ground in honor of the death or the souls of the people who passed away. It doesn’t apply to beer.
Excellent video and content.
Cool. Lots of cultures have similar traditions it seems.
Not arguing with your conjectures but Lansseax's glaive suggests the ancient dragons could turn human. The depictions of humans on FA could be of them or of the party that granted intelligence to the beasts (who could still be the ancient dragons).
The dragon communion spells also make it seem like people can turn into dragons. That's what the magma wyrms are, if I recall correctly
@@andrewbowen2837 the wyrm transformation is the consequence of eating (modern) dragon hearts and it doesn't affect only humans as Theodorix was a troll
Your vids are amazing, and you deserve credit for making some of the best vids on RUclips!
Wow, thank you!
@@tarnishedarchaeologistThank you for increasing my interest and knowledge in history!
As a Christian who is more interested in church history than most, I find it odd that I'd never considered nuns to be a repurposing of the cultural significance of the Vestal virgins. My understanding is that church monasticism descends from early contact with Buddhist monks living in Egypt via the Desert Fathers, an order of Christian monks who picked up the Buddhists' particular ascetic tradition. Indeed, Buddhism also has nuns, and while the color of their robes tend to vary by region, black is very common, as it is with Christian religious sisters to this day.
That said, this isn't to say that your observation is wrong, rather, to some extent we may both be right. It may be useful in future episodes to view things through a more integrated Eastern/Western blend of traditions, rather than focusing so closely on Christian allegory. Miyazaki is Japanese after all.
For example, after watching Smough Town's "The Greater Will Is Not An Outer God" video, I thought that the Outer Gods may be parts "cast off" from the Greater Will, just as the Kami of Shintoism were ejected from Izanagi, the creator deity of that faith. Each Outer God seems to represent a force of nature that was clearly present before the fall of Faram Azula: Funeral Rite, Motherhood, Blood, Fire and Metalworking, etc. My working theory is that after the people of the Eternal Cities fell from great tree worship, they began to worship stars and inadvertently called down catastrophe. The reign of Elden Lord Placidusax being over, I believe the GW "cast off" certain aspects of itself in order to make a system that was simpler, and as such, more resilient against failure by outside interference. Finally, as a slight against the Eternal Cities who summoned the Astels among other things, the GW anointed one of their own, Marika, as its new envoy to persecute them on its behalf, though ironically, she too would betray its designs.
Let me say that your stratigraphical analysis has definitely been thought provoking and has challenged that reading of events. I continue to think that your reading and mine may not be irreconcilable. Thanks for all the great theories for me to mull over!
HA! I knew the boat burial ground under Stormveil was something special and very ancient.
There's just no end to the depth of detail the developers added to this game, it's incredible how much storytelling there is without a single iota of text or dialogue. And I feel like this kind of game might never exist again and it makes me sad
Me, a wine connoisseur , trembling in excitement as Retsina is mentioned😂😂
Wow, Im learning so much about the details of this game. Worth an investment!
Oh god "Marble Schwanzes in their faces" really got me haha
This video is amazing, so much knowledge and so many details, i just love it.
Marikas bed chamber have a bunch of "things" that i have no idea what they are. They seem to be stone tablets or something like that. Do you have anything about that place? It's weird that we have access to that place, it have a lot of unic assests and yet nobody talks about any of that. Maybe an archeologist, with a very keen eye, can discover something about that chamber.
Was The Gloam-Eyed Queen just a moniker for Marika before she became Queen of the Erdtree and all that? She clearly could've used her Numen/now Nox ancestral artificial life/Ancenstral Follower friends reincarnation magic to make and lead a secret death cult such as the Godskins, slay the current order, transform into Queen Marika by shedding her old role as a head death priestess by ceremoniously "killing" that part of herself - giving up the rune of death and removing it from the Elden Ring? I've gotta be mixing up my timelines somewhere but the idea popped into my mind and I wanted to get it out before I lost it.
Great video btw!
This is my belief. I think it's pretty damn likely.
This also would explain a LOT about Melina [MarikaOfDaughter] who is not only "burnt and bodiless" but also has a gloam eye and power over destined death. I'm reasonably sure something like Melina being asked by her mother to be the kindling maiden in the ritual of the burning of the Greattree is what happened.
The biggest fact you have to reconcile with this theory is Maliketh. His name meaning death of the demigods is speculated by tarnished archeologist to be bacause he killed not only the gloam eyed queen but also the queens demigod children.
Sure it seems like now Marika and Radagon are scheming against each other with Marikas grace inviting you into the erdtree and radagons thorns locking you out. So it isn't impossible that she assassinated an earlier alter ego of herself but it becomes more extreme if you think Marika ordered the extermination of the Gloam eyed queens bloodline as well. Not impossible but very ruthless if that is what happened. Then again she had her incovenient omen children locked away for eternity.
@@simonwahlen7150Marika is absolutely the kind of maliciously savage hearted person who would send her dog man to go kill all her unwanted children. This is the same woman who locked up Mohg and Morgott and condemned the Fire Giant to eternal suffering and ignominy.
with magic life powers u can live for a long time and see the old traditions but also did anyone actually kill the gloam eyed queen or was maliketh killing the gloam eyed queen by stabbing marika with the rune of death ranni stole the rune of death from maliketh but why was the greatest fighter ever so easy to deceive unless marika put him in a position to make it easy in the first place how is the best fighter ever fooled like that unless marika betrayed him by convincing him to let his guard down so the rune of death could be stolen
That would require both unnecessary planning and frequent assumptions.
Why would she change at all? Who said the Godskins were created from artificial life,when they described in terms closer to the Crucible Of Life? How in the world do the Ancestral Followers even figure into it? They are completely isolated from all these plots. Their Spirits do not aid or abett Marika's reign, and have no reason to.
Above all, why would she " give up" death after using it for millenia? Why even create a cult specifically devoted to killing gods, and thus one that would inevitably turn on her, as she is a god?
How would Maliketh defeat his mistress..to serve his mistress?
He defeated the Gloam Eyed Queen, and that is the only reason the Golden Order even exists!
There was a point in time where Marika wasn't everything. Where she was, merely, an Empyrean with a devoted Shadow. Every God started this way. There is no evidence to suggest that she was ever the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Melina is a different matter, as Marika's daughter, but she is not the Queen either. Rather, she and the Queen share a connection to something you are familiar with by now:
Death itself.
As for why, it is simple:
Ages change, but the Outer Gods are the same. The pieces change, but it is the same board.
If Empyreans have always existed, and each one of them represents an Outer God, each of which wishes to impose a new order for the world, then there likely has been a representative of Death in each epoch,as there is for Rot, or Fate, among others.
In other words, it's just that simple. The difference between the Queen and Melina is that when the Queen was a little Empyrean herself, she made sure to win. Melina....
Melina threw it all away to make you win.