The Secret Origins of Grace | Elden Ring Archaeology Ep. 24
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- Опубликовано: 1 июн 2024
- Elden Ring Lore: What is Marika's plan for us? What is the Guidance of Grace? Join us as we reveal the secrets of Grace, The Tarnished, Marika's plan, and how it may relate to the upcoming DLC.
#Elden Ring #EldenRingLore #shadowoftheerdtree #tarnishedarchaeologist
Gameplay footage/music credit: Elden Ring, Dark Souls, Bandai Namco and FromSoftware.
Music credit:
Forgotten Lands, Alex Roe, @alex-roe
Kindle the Soul, Alex Roe, @alex-roe
Special thanks to Alex Roe for his beautiful Fromsoft covers/arrangements
/ @alex-roe
Available on Spotify as well!
Video Attributions:
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Photo Attributions:
Baptistery in Žiča Monastery near Kraljevo, Serbia. by Pudelek
Contents of the Video
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00:00 Intro
00:52 Opening Mysteries
06:42 Grace
17:12 Across the Fog
25:13 Conclusion 
Игры
I feel like Corhyn watching the Goldmask T-pose at the Erdtree whenever TA uploads. “And though I am yet to comprehend the daintiest morsel of his wisdom... I know that this, this is my life's calling.”
Same bro lol
We really need to touch grass (or grace?) 😂
lmao he says that shit and the moment Goldmask says some shit he doesn't like and sticks to it he fucking murders him
@@NoConsequenc3he murders him?
I'm pretty sure that doesn't heppen , if you give corhyn the tonic of forgetfulness, he stays at the mountain tops oblivious and never goes to the capital of ash where you find goldmask seemingly dead , so he can't be responsible for it
@@NoConsequenc3
@@NoConsequenc3Nah, you can kill Corhyn beforehand or give him the mindwipe potion from Tanith. Goldmask dies anyway.
Cancelled my meetings for the rest of the day.
A man of class and genuine culture 👌🏾
Same
Me too I canceled my invasions for a bit.
My brother in Christ, it’s only 30 minutes.
@@weirdalexander8193 my brother in Marika, we need to contemplate the lore implications afterwards. I need time to think.
Alexander’s one line before his final moments stand out to me. “Every vessel is designed to be broken”, which makes me think of Marika being the vessel for the greater will.
Good catch. That is the only other reference to a vessel in Elden Ring.
He didn't let us down, even in his final moments.
Well we see the toll being an avatar or lord to a Outer God does. Mohgs horn/bloodlust goes wild, Malenias rot accelerates, Ranni literally becomes more ethereal/Astral as she furthers the influence of the dark moon. The Giants are all vessels for the Fell God and carry the God in the Sam place as the elden ring.
And your belief that there has to be such a thing as "greater will"
@@liquidreality472 not really sure what you are trying to say, can you elaborate more?
Just to note, smoke is actually heavier then air, what makes it rise is the heat from which it is often produced. If it is allowed to cool slightly, like say in a cold crypt, it'll gently fall to the ground like a fog.
and fog (moist air) is lighter than dry air and will rise (hence clouds).
I've attended mass at a the Cologne Cathedral in January. The cathedral is too large to heat in winter, and the smoke from the censers proved this.
@@whoisjincense burning doesn't produce fog, but smoke, and if the air is moist, fog will hover right over the ground. I doubt that the crypts we see there are very dry, as they seem to only temporarily hold bodies until they're sent back to the LB.
Anyways I still think it's notable that the incense falls right down, not even a slight updraft.
The last Catholic sacrament I attended in person was like 30yrs ago, so I don't recall exactly, but from what I can remember the priest still tosses the incense around to make it rise and spread as much as possible.
What if, since the scene takes place in an eternal empire crypt, the fire used is coldflame, as per the old rites of the deathbirds?
I am going to use "Smoke is heavier than air" as a proverb to sound intelligent. 😅
“Worst she can say is no”
*removes your grace and kicks you and your friends out*
😂
An interesting tidbit is, that, at least the way I see it, this bringing back of the tarnished has been going on for years if not decades now. Vyke's story is already history again, Bernahl and Gideon have been doing stuff in the Lands Between for a while now, probably starting out with grace, but having lost it over the years, unable to collect the necessary Great Runes to enter the Capital, Face the veiled Monarch and travel to the Flame of Ruin. Our Tarnished seems to be one of the last batch of tarnished that come back to the Lands Between.
I also love the subtle how the opening cinematics of DS1 and ER respectively confer very different vibes about our player character. The DS1 cinematic is completely occupied with naming all the mighty Lords of the Past and their legendary feats, only naming the Undead in passing, while in Elden Ring the Tarnished, their epic story and mission is front and center, conveing the much more heroic story of Elden Ring
Bhernal could have been the reason why mohrghot put up the barrier because he actually got to the flame of ruin .
It renews my suspicions of the two fingers. They are aligned with the greater will itself, and have been guiding the tarnished this whole time as things simply collapse.
I love how even among the tarnished called back, countless others have already come and failed, and the player character is some forgotten nobody and seemingly the absolute last resort
@@moonlightning8269Calls back to Dark Souls 3 and how we are an Ashen One, who previously failed to kindle the fire, but are called back anyways as a last resort.
@@Eightbit_Wizard And how, even among the Ashen Ones, we weren't the first or the only one or the most special.
Damn The line where you pointed the pose of Marika in the little broken statues. HOLY SHIT! This is what I love about the lore in these games.
The attention to detail in these videos is top-tier a true video game archaeologist.
Yeah that part is cool! It's Marika's effigy BEFORE she was crucified! Very cool!
Lovely. I can't believe that slipped my mind. Makes me wonder what the process was that they all got broken, who was sent to do it, who ordered it out. Morgot? Was it just in an attempt to hide the disgrace marika did after breaking the elder ring or to prevent her further interference and stop tarnished specifically from coming back (a failed attempt of course if that is the case)
Something I just noticed is the astounding similarities between Hoarah Loux’s pose in the opening cutscene and Marika’s crucifixion within the base of the Erdtree, from the positioning of the arms to the way their stomachs are impaled. Makes me wonder whether that’s a deliberate parallel
Even in death, bro wanted to show off those muscles
I think there needs to be something said about that pose.
Marika is crucified in that pose.
Godfrey is “crucified” in that pose.
Godwyn is assassinated in that pose.
@@Darkheart00 you could see it as a pose signifying subjugation, in a sense. A point in which their life has been completely subsumed by the will of another, whether it be Marika bound within the Erdtree, Godfrey bound by Marika's plan for him and the Tarnished, or Godwyn being used as a stepping stone for Ranni's ambitions. In all three cases, these characters have become cogs in someone (or something) elses machine.
Remember that all those images depicted are actually paintings and pieces of art made by followers of Marika, so they are artistic representations of events in the game history
Not sure if it's been brought up before but I think instead of zionism, the tarnished leaving and returning might have been a reference to the mythical "Return of the Heracleidae" where the descendants of heracles returned and conquered greece. Horah Loux is seemingly a germanic/frankish character, but he also fits the heracles role pretty well. The parallels are pretty fun. Strong hero that is the figurehead of, but not necessarily the leader of a group of people and also happens to be an important hero to the place they are invading, the idea of them being members of a community exiled in foreign lands that are now returning and reclaiming lost inheritance. Going around and defeating the various powers of the region you are invading, who themselves are recovering from a past war that left them all weakened and aren't really friends of each other.
I hadn’t thought of that before, but honestly the connection between Godfrey and Heracles makes a lot of sense. I mean the lion on his back and his massive strength, as well as his story of going around the world beating everyone up
This is a really cool connection!
Don’t forget the parallel between serosh and the nemean lion! I really jive with this head cannon.
Heracles and the Nemean Lion is also a nice parallel for Horah Loux and Serosh...
What does Theodore Herzl have to do with this?
Loved the connection between the "sea of fog" and the hazy incense. Very possible, great video!
Aaaaah yes !! Makes so much sense! I got this eureka moment when he pointed out the incense "transmigrating" the dead into the lands between: exactly how the "trap" chests teleport us elsewhere! 🤯
@allthe1 Yeah! And Ya Can't Roll Outta This Smoke...Ya Dead!😂
There is a real world phenomenon called a smoke waterfall. It occurs when the smoke has a chance to cool down before it can escape up and away. In game, we know of a type of flame that burns bitterly cold: the ghostflame. The incense in that opening scene resurrecting the Tarnished is likely burning with ghostflame.
This flame is the result of burning the remains of the dead, and can carry the rancor of those dead spirits. There is one other item that connects: the Helphen's Steeple sword based on a beacon that guides only those who died in battle and wreaths itself in ruinous ghostflame with its ash of war.
Yeah I knew about the cooling smoke phenomenon but didn't connect it to ghostflame that's a good one.
I've also been thinking about how Destined Death fits into all of this and if it's a power which was originally from the Land of Shadow.
Which would also have certain implications for the Gloam Eyed Queen.
Excellent insight
We've seen literal forms of fog for magical travel in-game: the ensnarement traps. We literally get trapped in fog against our will and get transported somewhere else arriving in a puff of fog. Another likely suggestion at fog being a means of magical transportation.
I think the most intriguing fog in the game is the boss portals that glow with golden fire like that fired by a number of cursed beings.
Also, the place our tarnished wakes up looks like the arena inside the erdtree and then the doors open to fog iirc
Perhaps Miyazaki took inspiration from the Celtic religion. The Celts believed that once they die, they would resurrect in a some sort of an underworld where they would battle until killed and then reincarnate/resurrect back to our world. This would explain the third church "I divest each of thee of thy grace. With your eyes dimmed, ye will be driven from the Lands Between. Ye will wage war in a land afar, where ye will live and die." dialogue as well. This wouldn't be the only instance of Miyazaki taking inspiration form the Celtic religion. The wicker man in the DLC trailer being another obvious one.
Celtic-Scottish culture is very present in the dlc trailer, in general. the NPC with the Celtic armour design in the beginning of the trailer, the mini-militia enemies have Norse-Celtic inspired armour (Scottish helmet, battle axe etc.), the existence of a seemingly dead-horse is reminiscent of the ‘Kelpie’ of Scottish folklore, the Wickerman (as you stated).
The Land of Shadow is DEFINITELY exploring the more Celtic-inspired concepts. If this is the case, we’ll probably be getting more lore on the Golden Lineage and the Tarnished
@@Darkheart00I agree. I think a lot of lore hunters focus too much on the Norse influences and have completely overlooked the Celtic and old English influences which in my opinion are more present in the game.
I found it pretty inspiring how they worked together so many different cultures. I think leyndell has a lot of similarities to Rome too, and the blending of gothic barbarian lore, broader Norse, Celtic and I do believe Welsh mythology as well.
With some possible Greco-Roman influence going on as well as just the cherry on top. It’s just so goooooood.
You know our wonderful friend Elemer of the Briar, and his Ash of War the Eochaid Blade Dance? Eochaid is the name of an ancient Irish Tree of Life, that essentially issues forth in Masculine form the Deific High King, one generation after another. Like God and the Universe, giving birth to itself over and over again, whose values and qualities define the age they live in or establish.
Miyazaki is keenly aware of Celtic/Irish Mythology. Slave Knight Gael is an allegory for Irish servitude to the religion of Christianity, the hint is the name; Gael is singular for Gaelic, another word for Irish. No wonder he's terrifying and furious. That's what's possibly coming for the Vatican in time.
@@TOUGHEYES the root for Gael would be Wild Man or Savage which does fit his fighting style towards the end but I think miyazaki was more so going for the welsh Gael which comes from Gwynhael meaning Generous or Blessed. I think that fits much more as he’s blessed with the dark soul in this twisted way but giving that blessing to the painted world to break the cycle even though he knows he won’t be able to see it. sacrificing himself for a new world. generous indeed.
Gwynhael being the origin word would also be a subtle nod to the start of his story as a slave knight under Gwyn, these two characters are complete opposites, their journey and reason for sacrifice parallel each other perfectly, perceived by the world as a human slave and a hero god, even down to the way they fight while old and mad, one is pathetic, a shadow of his former self, the other a true struggler to the end strong and fast. it caps off the souls series in a way that’s just perfect. there’s other reason but I’m not going to info dump. I just don’t see the connections with the irish and the church really fitting the themes and motifs that Miyazaki wanted to tell with Gaels story. He does know his mythology and history though, I agree with ya on that.
Awesome! The gradually vanishing bodies blew my mind! :)
My two cents for Marika's plans: During my first playthrough, I came to believe that we are either a sucker punch or a fail safe mechanism, an ace in the hole. When Marika tells her children "to become something", that seems to be her main hope after the Shattering. She destroys the old order and gives her children a shot at becoming more. She knows that she will be punished and that her punishment will be terrible. So in case everything ends in nothing, she makes sure there is a smith who can forge a weapon to kill a god and she calls us forth in the end to wield it. In the beginning I thought it might be a suicide plot, so she can die instead of being crucified for eternity, by now I think this might be about killing Radagon.
took me two playthroughs to come this very same conclusions but after my third I'm questioning that too.
what confuses me is WHAT GODS she is the only true god we know off Radagon is not, in her bed chamber before the fight with Morgott, melina said so in the echos of marikas own words even calling Radagon a hound of the order.
this is just me now: maybe it means something happening like Ranni, Rannis ending we don't brandish the Elden ring instead something different is about to begin with the moon.
Formless mother, the GREAT SERPENT, ROT, the weird beings that fall from the stars is it them or maybe herself....... ???? need DLC NOW
@@jeff911pRadagon technically becomes a God when he meets with Marika, since theoretically a god is the vessel of the elden ring so Radagon also becomes one, and the elden beast itself is also a god, which gods are obvious in this case, are Radagon and the elden beast that Marika planned to try to kill
@@davisiotta489 You have yet I become me. You have yet to become a god.
I thought it was about killing the Elden Beast. From what I think I understand, when we get inside the Erdtree, Marika is long dead and her womb hollowed out. The Elden Beast reanimates her petrified corpse (you can see Marika fall from the crucifix and slowly stand as her hair turns red (signifying her turning into Radagon). You can also see the Elden Beast controlling her body (that black stuff showing beneath the broken parts of the reanimated corpse). I think that's the god Marika wanted us to kill. It's the only thing alive inside the Erdtree when we get there.
Maybe she knew she'd be killed for shattering the elden ring. And to break the cycle (of someone else becoming a vessel for the elden ring, and perhaps servant of whatever created the elden ring and Elden Beast) she wanted us to kill the Elden Beast.
No matter what ending you get, you can only establish your new order, by first killing the Elden Beast. In Ranni's ending, I think she literally takes the elden ring and removes it (and herself) from the Lands Between altogether. That has to be contrary to the will of whoever sent the Elden Beast to the Lands Between in the first place, right? But Marika destroyed the ring. Her daughter Ranni removes it from the Lands Between... there has to be something to that, I would think.
“Return to the Lands Between, wage war, and brandish the Elden Ring.
Grow strong in the face of death. Warriors of my lord. Lord Godfrey.”
This quote from Marika has always made it obvious to me that this is her way of moving against the Golden Order. In the First Church, she’s enthusiastic about the glory of the Golden Order. In the Minor Erdtree Church, she laments that the Golden Order is not what it once was, and wishes to to “search the depths of the Golden Order.” Notably, there is no second church, but by the Third Church she’s made up her mind to relinquish the Elden Ring to an outside force.
Presumably, the Golden Order that was once so radiant is now deemed a failure. The Greater Will that once backed her no longer gives its support, and has banished her Eternal City. She Shatters the Elden Ring to create turmoil, prompting the demigods to “make of thyselves that which ye desire. Be it a Lord. Be it a God.” And the Tarnished, hardened by the newfound threat of death, will ensure that it comes to pass through the guidance of Grace.
The memory of grace item looks like golden light reflecting off a still ocean. It is “first memory of grace” after all, when the tarnished first saw the erdtree from a ship or shore. (or vision, like how irina sees the distant underground yellow light of the three fingers)
You do know irina dies in castle mourne and the irina you talk to might actually be shabriri too
Elden Ring has become my Roman Empire, and something's been bothering me for a while: Marika's hair as it relates to her statues. Your observations in the beginning cutscene made me take a closer look and, too me, it appears that her downward armed or "resurrection statues" have hair which reflects her current state in the game- with one long braid/tail draped over her right shoulder. Her large statues in the churches that we encounter show Marika with two braids, but the left is severed midway. I had never noticed the difference in the arms before. But the hair, that is sus to me. Ideas? Love your videos!
I think her hair is symbolic of her relationship to Radagon: with her crucifixion, half of her being is severed, removed. And that half is Marika: she's locked in the tree, all but dead (if not for that whole Eternal problem) while Radagon twists the reigns in shadow (and probably who Gideon is referring to when he talks about his vision or dialogue with Marika before you fight him).
Good catch!!
Damn this is huge stuff almost entirely based on a single image that most people skip over from the intro and it actually adds up too. Great stuff as always
Tarnished archeologist has quickly become one of my favorite lore creators . You're right up there with Vaati and Smough . Love everything you do . Want more need more ! Keep up the great work !
I dunno man, I place TA higher than Vaati and just a bit above Smough. He has excellent real world knowledge and cracked the lore themes wide open, just when everyone was ready to throw in the towel and declare Elden Ring lore indeciferable.
@@kevinlasher2812 Fully agreed, Vaati's lore videos don't hold me like Tarnished Archaeologist. I literally marathonned all of his videos when I discovered this channel.
He's significantly better than either one. Vaati is a voice that recites reddit with slick editing. Smough does better analysis than vaati and is more knowledgeable. TA truly knows what he is talking about and uncovers great, new observations.
@@Rich_P_Anya after discovering TA, Smoughtown and Hawkshaw, it has made me realize how Vaati’s videos are of such little substance. It’s like you said, he just regurgitates Reddit, but with a nice coat of video editing.
Vaati is Ornstein, Smough is....well....Smough, and TA is the Nameless King.
First time I hear of that detail of the bodies progressively vanishing ! That blew my mind, no other LoreTuber has mentioned it to my knowledge.
One note on the timeline: according to at least one fundamentalist incantation, miquella knew and was quite fond of godwin. This means that godwyn's death (and thus, the night of the black knives) must have happened after godfrey and the tarnished were banished from the lands between. Marika's plan to create an undead nigh immortal army must predate the night of the black knives.
I do agree with the idea that coming & going from the lands between may be more metaphysical than literal. Heck, it's straight up called "the lands between", bit of an odd name for a place you can just sail to. Almost like it's a place between the normal world and another one.
That being said, I'm still leaning towards the idea that the lands of shadow might just be the afterlife (the helphen), hence marika casting a vale over it when she removed the rune of death from the elden ring. And the tarnished, stripped of grace, can't benefit from erdtree burial & rebirth while outside of the lands between. So it'd make sense that they'd wind up there and thus need to be resurrected from the lands of shadow to the lands between via the teleportation like effecou pointed out in the image.
Edit: also, in regards to the marika statue. It kinda makes sense that her iconography in the lands of shadow might be out of date since that realm is separated from the realms where erdtree faithful can build and maintain more up-to-date iconography. Those smaller stakes of marika that we resurrect at do seem to be old and ill-maintained.
Good observation on the date of the statues in the Land of Shadow/afterlife
We already know that though, if Godfrey and his knights were around during the Shattering, they'd have a big impact on it. Doesn't make sense for such a massive war to happen with them chilling at the roundtable hold snack bar
@@zaidlacksalastname4905 yes, during the video tarnished archeologist mentions that he was thinking marika came up with the plan after the night of the black knives. Or, at least, the way he phrased the line make's it sound like that. I'm pretty sure he knows better and just oopsied during the video, but people less familiar with the lore may not realise that.
You CANNOT confirm the narrator said “The loathsome Dung-Eater!” With a straight face… lol well maybe after the first dozen tries
😐 "AAAH- rise now" 🤭
I just can't believe that a guy talking about historic implications of a video game created an interest in real-life history for me! Currently everywhere I go and see a statue, monument or just an old building I am doing some research and a whole new world opens before my eyes! Thank you for that and please continue with your awesome work
night in the woods did that for me …. Not sure what the through line is here … something about video games that do world building by acknowledging that worlds are made up of layers on layers of history
Speaking of the fog and real-life religions or mythologies... I strongly recommend to check out the description of the Realm of the Dead in ancient Greek mythology, especially before introducing the conceptions of Elysium and Tartarus. It is exactly grim, foggy and swampy place. The colorless realm, shrouded by fog, so to speak, but archtrees and everlasting dragons, alas, are not included :)
The one thing that always confuses me is her banishment of Godfrey and the tarnished with promise of resurrection happening even before her marriage to Radagon. This means there was a huge passage of time between the banishment and the Black Knives Plot. I wonder what *specifically* her plan was for the tarnished, because having them as a mere contingency plan seems too simplistic, and I sincerely doubt she wanted her favorite child murdered
I strongly believe that Marika specifically wanted Godwyn as the other demigod who would need to die in the night of the black knives alongside Ranni, if Godwyn was involved in the shattering, the greater will would likely have reestablished the golden order without the tarnished as Godwyn was probably the most powerful of demigods and most other demigods would hardly want to oppose Godwyn reestablishing order in the lands between, I personally believe that Marika did this without any weight on her conscience knowing that most likely he could be revived by Miquella, I think it's very It is important to note that the two wars of Liurnia probably took place after Godfrey departed the lands between, Godfrey was a battle fanatic and it is extremely strange that he had no mentioned involvement in these wars, if there existed an enemy kingdom that could repel his offensives in two wars, the most natural thing would be to send his most powerful warrior to end the war but Godfrey simply has no involvement in this, Liurnia having repelled the forces of the golden order twice is probably due to the lack of Godfrey and his warriors, I believe that Marika only married Rennala in the form of Radagon to try to give birth to an Empyrean who would be Ranni and she would marry Radagon later to possibly try to give birth to other more powerful Empyreans, I think possibly Messmer could have been a birth planned by Marika to generate someone who could burn the erdtree and end the rule of the greater will
From what we know of Marika, I wouldn't put it past her to deliberately act as though Godwyn was her favorite so that her real favorite wouldn't be known, or for all her offspring to simply have been part of her plan as well.
I mean look what she did with Godfrey, Rennalla, her own shadow and many others which were technically very close to her.
She was definitely ruthless enough to do whatever she needed to in order to achieve her ambitions.
More importantly, you are also applying the morality and values of certain cultures in our world to that of someone from an entirely different universe with completely different circumstances, culture, upbringing, views on mortality, and a million other things which make it very unlikely and illogical that Marika would have the same values as someone from our world.
@@davisiotta489 I doubt Marika had a hand in her son's assassination. It was likely an act of revenge for the schism by her former associates. We'll have some of these questions cleared up in the Shadow Lands. Queen Marika clearly had it sealed because there's a terrible secret about her true nature that she doesn't want anyone to learn about. Messmer was probably assigned to protect this and was erased from history for it. Miyazaki calls Messmer a "hero" in the Famitsu interview which is very interesting..
worth pointing out that the stake of marika just prior to the mimic tear boss fight is one of the only ones in the game whose arms arent destroyed (perhaps THE only one), and it just so happens to be in an eternal city and surrounded by fallen hawk soldiers
Great find linking Marika's poses! And I really like the idea that grace can be literally bestowed on the Tarnished through an incense ritual. Personally, I think it would be the Perfumers performing those rites, since we know they're connected with the deathbed companions. On that note, the spirit ashes for the Depraved Perfumer Carmaan (which you can find guarded by a bunch of serpent snails in the Volcano Manor) also say that "he was in search of a secret physick of revivification."
Right, the cleric in the image from the opening cutscene does have similar (but not identical) garb to the perfumers, sort of like the clerics that guard the grand lifts. There appears to be a slightly modified, or perhaps simply earlier, version of the perfumers that we don't yet know much about.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Perfumers were originally medics and something akin to chemists and/or deathbed companions; perhaps as the war drew on, their garb changed.
I was in desperate need of another archaeological expedition. Thank you very much!
I’ve been critical of your previous video, but this video really reminds me of prime lorehunting.
The connection between Marika and the Tarnished is obvious. But the inclusion of the opening cinematic, the significance of the Marika statues around the Lands, and relating it to the purpose of the Shadowlands really threw me for a loop. Mindblowing stuff.
Stuff like this makes me more observant of the little things in a Miyazaki games
Thanks for another great lore analysis, TA. One point: I've been saying for a while now that Farum Azula is inspired by Pisa, and specifically that Maliketh's arena is inspired by the baptistery there. It only occured to me watching this that more may being going on there: perhaps that original function of that building was to host Greattree sap baptisms.
I'd like to believe that all the information that you provide through these beautiful videos are in the unreadable books in Roundtable Hold. Keep up the good work sir!
Hu in snared and a fog. Much like a trap chest that teleports you. I wonder if that foggy ritual is not a ritual but instead a means for the tarnished to go back to the lands between.
At first the tarnished were supposed to arrive again by boat, and a storm was to occur, we are found by melina on a beach. there would be a cave across the beach, and in the giant sheer cliff all down it. which would have taken us into the tutorial cave.
Also I am not sure everyone of the Kenneth Haight type leyndell erdtree faithful see the guidance of grace. I believe they see grace.... but I think the Guidance part is tarnished only, as no one else ever talks about it in their lives, but as you said it is on an individual level of how much, or at all a tarnished sees the guidance.
Tingles when it was highlighted that Marika's pose is inverted at the Stakes of Marika. Love this channel
WAKE UP BABE A NEW TA VID JUST DROPPED 🗣🗣
I'm watching lore content for almost two years now and just have decided to play the game again in preparation for the DLC. I must say that I can see the world of ER from a different point now. It's amazing how many things I have not noticed before while playing. Thank you for your amazing videos, Sir.
Edit: you know what? Sometimes I ask myself if that famous pose of Marika isn't a thing that happened before - and so people eternized her like this, like Christ who went through it being crucified and rised again after this - or if she already knew that it would happen to her at the end. It seems a weird coincidence. 🤔
Huzzah! News from the archeological digs!
"In that forsaken place, blood must spill. The blood of your fellows: the Erdtree faithful." The shadow lands being the place where the Tarnished fight, die, and resurrect as per Marika's plan could very well explain that line from the trailer. Really excited to learn more about Marika and the Tarnished in the DLC
Probably one of your best videos so far. I've always been intrigued, or I should say bugged, by the opening scene of Elden Ring. Thanks to this document, I'm starting to wrap my head around it all. Thanks a lot, TA, watching your work is a joy.
Man, I have been enjoying the heck out of these videos. Peeling back the layers of Elden Ring has helped me appreciate it even more than I thought possible. Cheers!
Everytime I think their is no way you can dig up more lore you surprise me kudos to you and the game for being consistent enough in its world building that this is even possible!
Grace clearly doesnt need a ritual to be given, the opening literally shows all of the named tarnish having grace, primary example being Fia, who we see waking up with grace near her. So while the sacrament might be given through ritual, you clearly can just have gravce.
I haven't seen anything yet about the peculiar ways inhabitants of the Lands Between DIE. And I mean die in-game. Many of the enemies leave corpses behind, but many do not. The Tarnished also just evaporates, like those specific enemies. Are enemies like the land octopi also Tarnished in some sense? We know their methods of reproduction were changed by the Shattering, of course.
"Those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of messmer's flame," from the dlc trailer. This line really stuck out to me because it sounds like MESSMER is the one the tarnished were facing in the Long March. Which is odd, because the tarnished are said to have gone to the Badlands and not the realm of shadow.
Something's odd about it all, happy to see i wasn't alone in thinking this
i feel the need to point out that the fog being put on the dead tarnished in the intro (to teleport us to the Chapel of Anticipation) is probably the same fog found in the transporter trap chests. Like, at first i just dismissed the chests as a game mechanic outside the lore, but its cool to see they still might tie into the bigger picture of the story.
Edit: the largest grouping of transporter traps is in the Auriza Side Tomb right below leyndell's entrance. Its name is even pronounced like "Arise," its was so obvious all along
Probably the best TA video yet, a masterpiece of forensic analysis
Thank you, the way grace is granted and that it was probably a contingency plan of Marika was quite enlightening. However, the question I was hoping to see answered was a different one: why? Let's hope for the dlc!
I always found it curious how Hoarah Loux's resurrection is portrayed, he's crucified on a tree, in the same poise as Marika almost, pierced by a huge sword. The sword even reminds me of some of the swords stabbed into the Roundtable. Who killed him? Was it this war they were supposed to wage, or was it the tarnished themselves, who grew tired of waiting and blamed their Lord for their destitution of grace? Also Serosh's head is there, was he decapitated or is he waiting for Godfrey to resurrect?
Interesting. When Marika, through Melina, describes the tarnished as having been “divested” of grace. This reminds me of Miquella. Since the tarnished are still capable of wielding holy incantations after resurrection, perhaps the same applies with Miquella? I really want to see Miquella as an ethereal, golden being.Then again, I also wish for holy damage to be a weakness, because I will be rocking the crucible wing incantation as much as possible! I will watch the remaining half of this video after running an errand. Love it so far!
Can’t deny the dedication and thoughtfulness that goes into these, regardless of the the shortcomings of the subject matter.
Ah. A morning journey to my morning coffee, transcendent in full. The grey weather outside my window suddenly a piece in an unfathomable arrangement of proportions and motivations I will but only ever catch the feeblest glimpse of. Grace lies in the eye of the perceiving - and so does, I am grateful to believe, magic.
The lands of shadows = land beyond the fog. Mark my words. Sometime during this dlc we will see that crypt.
I headcanoned it that the crypt is in the "living world" ie, wherever the Tarnished were banished to. Since the Erdtree factors into the religions of the "outside" world, I would imagine that as (lesser) Tarnished die, they are brought to the crypt and blessed in the hope they are transferred to the Land Beyond some day.
Hrmmm not sure about it. Not an impossible theory but I think that it has going against it that we see the circumstances where each Tarnished of note regained their grace. Dung Eater's death and revival especially doesn't seem to fit the Land of Shadows - he was executed by a town, presumably for his crimes. This was a town that Boggart spent time in. The fact that some Tarnished hail from the same place as Okina and his disciples is also telling.
I definitely think we will be learning about the Tarnished in the DLC, especially since Messmer's primary job seems to be incinerating those without Grace. I wouldn't go as far as to say that the Land of Shadows is universally where the Tarnished went to though.
@@monsieurdorgat6864 I agree, even if this theory is true at all, there must be much more to it. After all, tarnished come from several named lands that feel like they couldn't possibly be the land of shadow. The main two are the badlands and land of reeds, and the confessor class supposedly served churches of marika outside the lands between which in my eyes implies that the tarnished inhabited many lands
@@elididde3377 Which earnestly makes more sense from a dev perspective. It gives your players a lot of freedom to roleplay the background they want - there's a wide world out there where you could come from!
Definitely not. In the video, TA's link between the two is flimsy at best "This Knights of the Coucou Church looks strange, this crypt looks strange (even though incense falling down actually make sense), maybe they are in the same place?".
And as it's been pointed out, some of those Tarnished, especially Dung Eater, do not look like they were in the Lands of Shadows at all. Also it's been made clear that the barrier to the Lands of Shadows is quite tough to crack: Miquella can only step inside after divesting himself of everything golden (essentially in spirit form), and Tarnished individual can only "follow" after Miquella, meaning they couldn't break in before Miquella did.
It's very clear that the Lands of Shadows is NOT the lands the Tarnished were banished to.
This is my favorite Elden Ring lore video. I just love all of it haha great work!
Got sick, cancelled meetings - chicken noodle and TA let’s GO!
Elwood voice:
"I got my grace from Gahd"
Coming back from work just to see new Ep! FK yeah!🎉
Oh my GOD seeing all those guidances of grace appear before the main characters, somehow never noticed before but is so clear now.
I always interpreted the line about the light fading from Godfrey's eyes once his conquest was done to be figurative, he does have the whole "warrior king, who really feels alive as warrior but holds himself back to fit the role of king" thing going on after all
So running out of enemies would rob him of meaning and thus the joi de vivre
If coming to the Lands Between requires death, then maybe that's how Marika arrived.
I think Marika came over along with the rest of the Numen. Based on the iconography on uld ruins, it seems like a large group of Numen came to the lands between by large boats. The DLC trailer seems to confirm this.
It's possible that the lands between could normally only be accessed by death, but the Numen found a way to get there without dying.
@@Timothy2012Just shooting pot shots.
The locations of the Numen runes are interesting.
Haligtree
mohgwyn palace
deeproot depths
divine calid tower
Ah yes, time to update my Elden Ring notes.
*drops a massive, dusty tome onto my desk*
Not a lot to eat in this video, but I guess we are all awaiting the DLC
As noted by another comment, the encent smoke goes up because of heat, and if in a crypt, might go down.
Meaning covering the ground, in a sea of fog.
Great job seeing the Marica statue and its difference, eventhough it is just an observation, and not a lot can be extracted from it for now.
Have a nice day, from France, bye
I still laugh at the "loathesome dung eater" voice line though
Wow. It's all so clear now. Awesome upload. The low arms of Marika indicate an earlier time which fits with how the LoS was hidden prior to the shattering.
Your videos bring a lot of joy to me and others during these trying times. Thank you so much
Incredible work as always TA. The most coherent, thorough analysis of fromsoft lore
19:38 oh! This is Santiago de Compostela, the cathedral at the end of the Camino de Santiago pilgrimage! I got to perform the last few days of this pilgrimage years ago and they even used the botafumerio when we went to mass there one day, it's gorgeous! They raise it up in the air and swing it back and forth across the transept of the cathedral over everyone's heads.
My understanding is that Marika arrived and accepted apotheosis only to be horrified by the truth of it all. She tried to fix the system by deleting death, but that failed and the Greater Will revealed it's insurance policy: the automaton avatar and possession profile known as Radagon
My partner insisted I watch this video from this channel, and I now understand why. This was so interesting and we had a blast watching together. Thank you ❤
This is one of your best videos yet! Just absolute chef’s kiss on this one
Its interesting that could be incense used in a ritual to resurrect tarnished. Because of the purple hue of the haze I always thought that was a sleep mist used to keep tarnished in a slumber to be awakened when needed.
Ive been learning metaphysics cosmology and alchemy among various things in that area for the past 7 months and yeah that sums up how the dark souls intro and subsequent playthroughs are. you understand nothing until
all is one, one is all.
you understand it all
Lands between life and death. The Afterlife.
light and dark
its in kingdom hearts too btw lmao
Sora went to Quadratum after all.
The Heart is the Soul, and in KH the giant moon heart is basically the Erd Tree. So we are returning to become one with it. Hence why we go inside and fight the elden beast.
similarly in KH1 we go inside the End of the World and get closer to the realm of darkness until we fight the giant eldritch ship of darkness.
The Elden Beast is Light, so the Shadow of the Erd Tree will show us the darkness. I cannot wait if you cant tell lol
She took our grace, and cast us to outside the fog. so she took our grace of god away and sent us away, meaning:
We were probably born in some way somewhere, grew to the point of our death as shown in the intro scene, and resurrected once dead.
We had to ferry across the water like we are traveling the river styx etc in at least the beta and early versions from seeing stuff from the CNT etc. but yeah it still fits regardless.
And since Elden Ring is about alchemy as well, we could view as following the gold grace as "following the light" when one passes away. But in doing so we are becoming a god. and this entire process is a literal version of alchemy and achieving god hood or at least making the philosophers stone.
Another absolute treat of a video! Only listened to it while driving home from work, but will watch again later when I can relax and absorb it properly. :)
been bingewatching your content but recently ran out, so glad this came up !!
imagining that priest finally getting to Dung Eater's corpse and just shouting THE ODIOUS OUTHOUSE OMNIVORE
Thoroughly enjoyed it as always my friend
I think at this point even Miyazaki takes notes from your videos when they drop.
Yes! A new Tarnished Archeologist!
always love your lore lectures fellow tarnished!
Thanks for your effort, I appreciate your videos...very well made and entertaining
OMG the merika respawn shrine comparison is spot on. What incredible lore for explaining how the checkpoints work in world
Another amazing analysis!
Something interesting, I'm not exactly sure where I read it in game, is that our Tarnished character likely never had grace to begin with as they are descendents of the original Tarnished of Godfrey. So the original Tarnished lived in the Lands outside of the Lands Between, meaning lived, gave birth and became nations and faction of there own over possibly centuries. And all with the blood of the original Tarnished gain grace after death. So our character's history is completely up to role-play, they could have fought alongside Vargram or Vike before losing grace, or could have been born long after, being a descendent of Godfrey himself
I absolutely despise playing FromSoft games but watching your videos has made me ADORE the storytelling, both the in-game story and your own analysis.
Great video as always, TA!
The theory has a few flaws, as originally the Tarnished's arrival was on the beach and the Church of Expectation was a boss fight that had a teleporter from Castle Stormveil.The change was probably for cinematographic reasons, which makes sense as the beach is rather unspectacular.
Great videos man.
You are making me care about this game more and more
Great video as always
Dear Tarnished Archeologist!
My name is Ivan, I am your devoted subscriber.
I have a concept of an Elden Ring video that I believe might suit your channel. The concept deals with parallels between ER, Tolkien and Wagner and the meaning of the “ring” in their respective worldbuilding.
I am neither a youtuber, nor a native English speaker and this is just my passion project. So I am looking for a creator who can help me expand upon and share these ideas.
I am ready to donate generously for this opportunity.
And thank you for your incredible work. You produce probably the most thoughtful content about From Software games out there.
Dear Ivan,
Unfortunately we cannot accept your offer -- we have certain method of making videos that we try not to deviate from, but it means a lot to us that you would consider sharing your ideas. Even though you feel worried that your language may be a barrier, why not post them on Reddit, or even try making a RUclips video? The worst that can happen is it's not viewed very much, but it will still be fun for you.
All the best,
TA
@@tarnishedarchaeologist thank you for your reply! Maybe I will:) love your content and wish you all the best!
Been super overwhelmed with life and took off work today for it. This is a pleasant surprise.
I never noticed the change in her positioning in the introduction, that just absolutely twisted my mellon man!
Goddamn that last image nailed it. Love your work!
20:27 Godfreys pose is eerily similar to marika’s, the arms stretched up/outwards, with a spear piercing his abdomen. He is also accompanied by his dead «guide» Serosh, who is embedded in his flesh, similar to Marika’s «guide» the elden ring within.
Another knock out of the park. Favorite lore channel, period.
This content makes mowing my field much more enjoyable
Superb as always!!!!
Memory of Grace item i think implies a bit of her plan
*it is merely a cycle, stand before the elden ring become elden lord*
I think Marika wanted everyone to suffer eternally for the death of Godwynn, at least until the one willing to go against the golden order and burn the tree would rise. Hence Melinas purpose as given to her by Marika.
A purpose i think was fulfilled once before which is why the Erdtree is burned and replaced by a phantom illusion of it
But whomever did it the first time died to the Elden Beast. Because Hewg hasnt been able to craft a godslaying weapon so they failed to kill it but appear to have wounded it which is why we see the wound on the Elden Beasts belly where we critically strike it
Us the player coming to being from within the Erdtree i dont think is a normal process. Roderika sailed to the Lands Between. I suspect Grace in Lore acts like Captain Jack Sparrows Compass.
I think Marika actually created us herself in order to ensure a champion strong enough to get the job done. Which is why the amber egg doesnt negatively affect us, why we come to being in the Erdtree, we're essentially to Marika what Millicent is to Malenia.
Thats my interpretation of it
How can you be this good? Always baffle me!
..."Queen Marika has high hopes for us. That we continue to struggle. Unto eternity."
Could it be something with Living Jars ? Or the recollection of our runes ?
I feel like she is farming us tarnished since the erdtree doesn't produce sap anymore.
gideon says that, but he also says that its impossible to kill a god. Meanwhile, hewg was specifically cursed by marika to forge a god-slaying weapon. So, the case is probably that gideon learned of Marika's plan to slay the elden beast, and just decided it was impossible and that the tarnished would "struggle unto eternity," even if that isn't actually what marika wanted or planned for. At least thats the way i made sense of it all
Eh, I took that sacrament scene as more of a metaphor. Kinda like the scene in the opening where Margit is pinning a pre Malenia Radahn to the ground.
The Tarnished seem to be a diverse lot. Some came from the Land of Reeds, some from the Badlands. Fia came from a place where they had their own means of raising the dead. The confessor class suggests the Greater Will was worshipped in some form outside the Lands Between. Nephali Loux has not, unless I am mistaken, set foot in the Lands Between until she awoke there as a Tarnished. And the astrologers would have given way to the sorcerers by the time Marika banished Godfrey and married Radagon, so I suspect some of the Tarnished might predate that event. I know Godfrey is called the first Tarnished, but that could mean "first among".
With the Land of Shadow having been unknown until now, I'll say our characters have probably not been there, but I do like your theory that we were for lack of a better word teleported to the Lands Between.
Fantastic video as always. Another fun clue which I can't recall if you've remarked upon before, is that Marika clearly gave Hewg the mission of crafting a weapon for the Tarnished that can slay a God, chaining him to the Roundtable Hold. So her plan seems to specifically involve bringing back Tarnished so they can come and kill the Elden Beast. Which is consistent with her shattering the ring and, as you've suggested before, paving the way for the reign of Miquella. Marika maybe knew she had to shatter the Elden Ring, but that she would be enslaved afterwards, and thus created her army of Tarnished so that eventually one would come along capable of killing the Elden Beast and clearing the way for Miquella.
Yessss I have been waiting for something good to watch!!!!