The more I learn about how this game has taken from human history, the more I understand what Miyazaki means when says he's going to make something more abstract. He's finally at a point that he's touched so many points of actual history that he's finally free to be creative beyond direct inspirations. Can't wait to see that game.
All the Soulsborne games were just a part of an elaborate ritual meant to help Miyazaki ascend to godhood. Now he will move on and create his own universe
Miyazaki always alternates between an abstract game and a more "concrete" one, according to his own interviews. Abstract: Demon's Souls Concrete: Dark Souls Abstract: Bloodborne Concrete: Dark Souls 3 Abstract: Sekiro Concrete: Elden Ring Abstract: Armore Core? *EDIT: Looks like Miyazaki is not involved in Armored Core VI as he was in other games, so it probably won't fall into his own alternation, kind of like Dark Souls 2.
I HAVE BEEN BANGING MY HEAD over the apparent discontinuity between 'Elden John' tree worship and the Eternal Cities, and never even considered the 'rediscovering older prophecies' part. This makes perfect sense. Thank you for putting this all together into such a compelling and detailed narrative.
You are like toldinstone but with a focus on Elden Ring, weaving real world historical inspirations to give added context to the elements in game. Eloquent, entertaining, and educational. Thank you!
@The Tarnished Archaeologist I would like to get your opinion on what I see in that symbol. I believe it is based on the Ediacran animal Charnia (the Ediacran is time before the Cambrian explosion which was for the longest time considered the first time of macro species, but later the VERY WEIRD & ALIEN Ediacran was found to be the first. which Most fossils that we have found are from Species of animals/plants have NO living relative, or even a modern equivalent) Specifically Charnia MASONI From the Charnwood Forest in England. is a far older, more ancient, and fitting better with your analysis of "Almost alien, so far removed that it has nothing in common with anything now" en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnia ruclips.net/video/ipkBmbi6k5c/видео.html ruclips.net/video/Spk0edEuNbQ/видео.html (this is the best reference) Some references for you. I hope that you will look these over, and consider whether you agree or not.THIS IS WHAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MY MIND WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED ELUDING TO THIS SYMBOL IN EARLIER VIDEOS
@@tarnishedarchaeologist I would like to say that the fact that the two crucible knights that are named are named after the selurian, and the ordivician period, both came after the Ediacran period, that this would add weight to my theory. as this was before the crucible.
I would guess that most of the world building is Miyazaki's work. I think that's why we find obvious "Martinisms" which are all 60's fantasy and French and English wars focused characters intermingled with these nods to ancient Assyria, Judea, Rome, etc. The Conan the Barbarian, Robert the Bruce and Cuchulain stuff is all Martin. Everything else is Miyazaki and team. It's probably not as two dimensional as that in its entirety. But that's my general impression from the interviews, obviously never explicitly stated. Though I would guess that Miyazaki had more than a heavy hand when it came to Malenia, Miquella and Marika's characterization.
@@rainbowkrampus As I understand it, GRRM wrote the backstory for the world, and Miyazaki did all the actual in-game writing. It's possible this is just Miyazaki's doing, but something so fundamental as which world history to base the story on feels like George would've been at least involved
@@arabidllama Realistically it's probably a combination of the two of them. We know that both GRRM and Miyazaki are fans of the intersection between history and fantasy, and history is known to repeat itself, or more accurately for similar scenarios to repeat. It wouldn't surprise me if GRRM and Miyazaki had different specific ideas when they were writing that happened to fit the same overall theme when everything was joined together. After all, the Sicarii may be one of the most iconic groups of shadowy assassins striking at major political powers for social and religious reasons but they were certainly not the only ones. Whether GRRM and Miyazaki were thinking of the Sicarii, the Hashashins, the Guy Fawkes Gunpowder Plot or something completely different, all three of those examples and more fit the same general narrative even if they have more or less completely different social, religious and cultural reasons for existing.
@@quintonhoffert6526 I have no idea if this was an inspiration or not, but the thing that came to mind immediately for me was the assassination of Julius Caesar. I'm not saying he has any parallel in the game (I don't know enough about the characters in the game or Caesar himself to be able to confidently make connections), but the thought of a mass of dagger-wielding assassins taking out near enough a god among men really popped for me, you know? Even if it has no connection at all, the imagery is so evocative - I love it so much.
Virgin ER Analysists: lol "Marika's tits" was definitely GRRM's contribution Chad ER Analysists: 1st century Jewish assassins of Roman officials wielding curved knives have a distinct similarity to the Black Knives in game. GRRM's contribution is a retelling of the most infamous and pivotal moments in history through the lens of gripping fiction.
I mean, you might be right to an extent but all Soulsborne games have historical references in them. It's not something new to Elden Ring. Miyazaki is a history buff and from what I've heard a huge fan of European medieval history. Excluding Sekiro all of the Soulsborne games take huge influence from European history.
This comment is far more correct than many people might realize. George r.r. Martin's favorite period of history is post Byzantine Britain up to the war of the roses. These are all core historical contexts used specifically in Elden ring.
I’m interested in two major elements here - one, the period of the tree faith before Marika. After all, we have tree iconography that predates her, and we have the crucible - so, when were the other trees, and other periods? Was the first felling before the Nox, or after? One plausible series of events would leave the Nox on the surface until they strike out agains the early tree faith (when Marika was young, perhaps, given the lifetime of Numen)… and that leads to number two. I’m strongly of the opinion that the Fingerslayer blade tells us what the Nox did to enrage the Greater Will and be plunged below the earth - they killed a god, though a lesser one than Marika became. Perhaps, then, this was the first felling - the tree religion entered a crisis after the Nox and a divine punishment by the GW, which ultimately concluded with Marika and the Golden Lineage. The Nox, it would seem, have long memories of their failed first attempt. I do have one major disagreement - I think a tree existed in the time of the Dynast, or at least, I think the roots did. The Dynast is depicted with roots and even, in the Belfries, with a tree. His lack of throne doesn’t guarantee his lack of tree, after all. Regardless, I think that his dynasty (given, well, the meaning of ‘dynasty’) ruled for some considerable time, perhaps fading in the face of the Nox’s own ascent.
Spot on, as usual, friend. - Agreed that the Fingerslayer blade refers to the slaying of a God (and not the slaying of fingers), though it was beyond the scope of this video. - Totally agree about the roots existing before the tree. Perhaps this is what is shown in the Farum Azula Elden Ring... If you'll bear with us, we plan to address exactly that question very soon.
I think in a previous video he already pointed out that there was another tree before the erdtree but its location wasnt the same, and its where the colosseums are pointing at
I'm assuming the fingerslayer blade is the one used to fell Godwyn. Following the previous video, it made sense that the Eternal Cities were banished after Godwyn's murder. Only problem is that the Eternal Cities seem quite stable and intergrated with their environment, like they've always been there.
Occam's Razor points us towards towards the Divine Towers. The blade is called "Fingerslayer" after all, and we find dead Two-Fingers atop every one of them.
The thing I was thinking of when you were bringing up the designs on the mega-thrones, was that it called to me a artistic depiction of the Elden Beast from above, with its wing-like appendages.
I thought of the star beings like astel. Goes in tandem with the star worshipping and astel being an actual star, and finding astel in the underground cities.
You deserve many more subscribers. Not only for deciphering the mythos of Elden Ring, but also for inspiring people to learn more about the history of mankind.
Gawd dude. I seriously cannot come up with words with weight enough to truly express the degree to which your video series has enriched my experience with and understanding of this game. So I'm just going to say this instead: Thank you. So very much.
I don't know, until you mentioned the critter I saw a plant / primitive tree. What you see as segmented legs / gills I personally see as drooping leaves.
Not sure if you have noticed but in Elphael the walls of the city (you have to climb roots to see them clearly) are full of tree brances filled with babies and buds.
The dead scorpion god of rot in the grand cloister certainly evokes the image of the Egyptian god Serket as well. Edit: The Sacarii dagger looks almost identical to the erdsteel dagger in-game. This helps establish the timeline of dagger reforging. Erdsteel daggers converted to blades of calling, converted to black knives. Alternatively the erdsteel dagger is the base and the other two are two possible parallel forms instead of a linear progression.
I'm a bit confused about when and how the reign of beasts and dragons would slot into this framework - particularly if Serrosh is a significant ruler of the Crucible Era. How would he (or the Stormlord) have existed within the context of a crumbling Saint-and-Tree Empire, which is now at this point an age away from the Eternal Empire, which is itself an age or more away from the rule of Farum Azula (which seems contemporaneous with the Uhl Dynasty and the giants, as all of them share certain motifs)?
Serrosh is cleary a different kind of beast than the Beastmen. I think Serrosh and the Stormhawk King (Stormlord, most likely him) are more in line with being the original rulers of places like Stormveil, RoundTable Hold, Castle Morne, etc. In the timeline, all these locations show Great Tree depictions in their oldest stratum, with later additions of the Crucible statues and the final additions of Marika's era statues. These places are dripping with details from 3 eras. But i think the Great Tree depictions in Stormveil would make sense to be of the final days of the Great Tree, perhaps even post-destruction of the Great Tree. We don't actually have any decent clues about what life was like during the Great Tree era, possibly the destruction was so vast that most history was lost. See western Europe between the 6th and 10th century and the "obliteration of history" that took place, during those centuries we know more about the Eastern Roman Empire and the Middle East (Muslim Golden Age 8th-9th century) since they were much more advanced having not gone through a collapse unlike Rome/Ravenna/etc.
Hmm. Maybe the timeline goes like this: 1. Ancient Dragons 2. Crucible 3. Eternal Cities 4. Golden Order. It makes for a nice progression in terms of the values of the metals associated with these eras. 1. Ancient Dragons ruled over the beasts, who used stone tools. 2. The Crucible era is associated with red-tinged gold, which may be seen as copper. 3. The Eternal Cities are associated with silver (Silver Tears, Silver Fireflies, you name it). 4. The Golden Order is associated with, of course, gold. So we have stone-copper-silver-gold in terms of the progression, materials of progressively greater value.
@Ates Goksu yes exactly very much like the real world and we know Michaela was going to usher the age of unalloyed gold or untainted gold perhaps DLC or a future series
I kind of assumed the Dragons and their beastmen ruled over the age of the crucible and their order was the 1st incarnation of the Golden Order as the Red Gold color that marks the age of the Crucible also marks the Red Gold wielded by the Ancient Dragons also note how all the aspects of the crucible wielded by the Crucible knights seem Dragonic in nature: Fire breath, reptilian tail, reptilian horns... Then for whatever reason the Crucible age and the Dragon Order came to an end when Placidusax's God disappeared after likely likely abandoned by the greater will and Marika was selected as the new Vessel and establish a New order for a new age and Placidusax took Faraum Azula into Sky when he retreated beyond time.
Another eminently enjoyable and beautifully articulated masterpiece. And I'm STILL confused as to how this channel only has 12.7k subscribers... seriously. How is this possible?
At 5:51 you talk about the symbol on the back of the Nox Thrones being a brachiopod. That makes sense from the pictures that were provided, but I’m wondering, could the brachiopod design actually be reference to the Elden Beast? We know that the Beast came down from a golden star, (possibly during the Age of Stars) and if you look at the design of the Beast, it has a head and a tail that are somewhat symmetrical, and it’s “wings” have little “stems” similar to the gills found on brachiopods. It would be easiest to look at if you could T-Pose the Elden Beast, but it’s tough to tell from what we see in game.
Really well-made and interesting video. This gives so much clarity to the history of the Lands Between and the backstory of the events of the game. One thing that has been bugging me is, where does the civilization of ancient dragons and beastmen that built Farum Azula fit into all this? Do they predate even the Divine Tower era, or did they develop parallel to another civilization? The fact that they evidently worshipped the Elden Ring and had an Elden Lord makes it seem like they were a direct predecessor to the current Golden Order, but the age of their ruins and lack of tree iconography seems to indicate that they far predate almost every other civilization in the Lands Between.
I think that the rediscovery of Tree Worship has happened multiple times - the ancient roots and the Elden Ring have been there the entire time, from the beginning of all things. The Dragons faded and later the Dynast rediscovered it; the Dynasty ended and eventually the Blessings of Sap religion resurrected it. The tree keeps growing back, until the Ring’s own vessel/bearer shattered it, a catastrophe on a totally new scale.
I was here before you blew up. Please do not stop sharing your wonderfully insightful analysis of the unbelievably subtle detail woven into this game. I know I am not alone when I say it is such a breath of fresh air to consume content like this. You obviously have a passion for the nuance of your field and a gift for providing thoughtful commentary. Your labors do not go unnoticed, as it seems the overwhelming majority of your audience shares my affection for your content and are similarly hungry for more. This is an awesome format and you are very much onto something. Excited to see your future videos and I am looking forward to seeing when your videos inevitably break into the mainstream. Easiest sub of my life.
I can't wait for your Volcano Manor breakdown, you seem to have a pretty solid idea of what Rykard's all about. Now that you mentioned him being connected to the eternal cities I'm gonna pay attention for leaded windows next time I'm there.
I wonder what "banished underground" really means when it comes to Nox. Their cities clearly look built into their surroundings (grand lifts and stuff) so they probably were always underground. But maybe they used to have an above-ground component (lower Leyndell, Sellia, maybe the older part of the Academy Town in Liurnia) that was either repurposed or completely destroyed (I wouldn't be surprised if there was a town around the Lift in Limgrave that was razed to the ground when the Nox were banished)
like the mistwood ruins? tho they aren't in condition to tell how old they are honestly that part of limgrave seem quite empty, specially if you consider that haight fort is nearby, there should be more settlement around...
After reading your comment i've got a thought that maybe like in Dark Souls 1, humanity originates from underground and slowly climbs above the ground as civilisation become more advanced. Like a metaphor of climbing the evolution ladder, humans in Elden Ring literally climb up. With your logick "banished underground" would mean to destroy everything on the ground level, without any magical mambo jumbo of sending entire cities underground :). And it makes perfect sense imo. BTW. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Selia the only eternal city that has empty giant throne? That would explain why Selia was spared - they resigned in last moment from creating their giant ruler.
I thought they were always underground, but the giant sinkhole in Leyndell is very suggestive. The outrageous location of Raya Lucaria as well. I can't reconcile these themes either.
This is something that always stumped me as well but I think if we look at the description for the Eternal Darkness spell it makes a bit more sense. To me it seems they were literally sucked into a black hole and transported underground, fales night sky and all, save for The Eternal City of Leyendell which had its night sky taken away.
@@grandthaumaturgist Interestinggg idea concerning Sellia. That would also explain why Radahn, a Golden Order fanboy would be okay with going there to learn sorceries himself.
Not to be overly effusive, but A) this is the greatest game of all time; and B) I love you. Seriously I've seen trying to put these pieces together for a while now, indeed just yesterday I noticed that the lower Capital Church has a Saint and Great Tree altar rather than a Nox altar just yesterday, and you've just laid it all out in exquisite detail and clarity. I'm so grateful to you, and I enjoy your work so very much. Also, it's Orthodox Christmas and Western Epiphany: great timing!
@@tarnishedarchaeologist of course! Incidentally, do you think there's any chance that Rykard's throne at the end of VM is based on the Crypt Chairs? There's no one to one matches in design detail that I can see, but I feel the overall effect is similar.
You, sir. Are a genius!! The connection between the Grand Cloister (Temple of Isis) where the Kindred of Rot worship the Rot Goddess, and Malenia, Goddess of Rot (Isis herself) blew my freakin mind. Edit: The whole video is mind blowing...your other video on the Eternal Cities and what used to lie in the now open pit on the other side of Leyndell's main gate also blew my mind.
There is definately a grasp of power at play. There are implications that the Golden Order did not start with Godfrey. It began in the Crucible, the age before the Edrtree. The fact that Maliketh is a high rank, BeastClergymen, and the shadowbound of Marika suggests she had a religious affiliation with Farum. Gravel Stone Seal- “ Sacred seal made from Gravel Stone thought to be an ancient dragon scale. Enhances Dragon Cult incantations of the Royal Capital. The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.” Godwyn also founded the ancient dragon cult which, judging from the prayer book being found in Farum Azula, began there. It reads: Ancient Dragon book Prayerbook - “Prayerbook of the capital's ancient dragon cult. *A lost tome that never reached the Lands Between*. Contains red lightning incantations.” Farum Azula seems to work under its own hemisphere since the Sun is constantly present and stuck in a stasis most notably seen in the Great Bridge leading to Maliketh, also sharing similarities to the Eternal Cities with its Architecture hanging below ground. Marika’s Hammer - “Stone hammer made in the lands of the Numen, outside the Lands Between. The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it. The hammer partially broke upon shattering the Ring, becoming splintered with rune fragments.” The “denizens of another world” text found on the Numen Rune could very much refer to Farum Azula, with Marika being depicted with what looks like a dragon/serpent tail behind her in her statues. It even has traces of gold mimicking similar to the Ancient Dragons. The Mimics Veil is even called “Marika’s Mischief”. All this paints the Numens(Ancient Dragons) as the the shapeshifting counterparts to the Silver Tears, except Gold. Lannseax was a able to do this, I’ve heard Fortissax in the form of Fia, and Godwyn himself. It’s the only explanation as why we see two different versions of him(in game and story trailer). In the Deeproot Depths, the Finger Reader Crone refers to him as “Lord Godwyn - a Scion of the Golden *bough*” The word bough translates to a main part of a tree or in this case “true lineage”. In the Japanese text, the same npc calls Godwyn the “Prince of Gold”, The heir to the Seat of the Sun aka Farum Azula(evidence being Destined Death being sealed there, all the Beastmen using the Sun Realm Shield, and of course the Sun being constantly present). Godrick, in his boss fight dialogue he claims: “Mighty Dragon, thou'rt a trueborn heir. Lend me thy strength, o kindred. Deliver me unto greater heights.” Anything related to the dragons is and was considered divine at one point until everything crucible related had been shunned from history. Godwyn has a heavy association with dragons and it’s said he wielded “Golden” Lightning which can even be seen in the Placidusax fight. Death Lightning Description- Incantation that channels the power of the ancient dragon Fortissax, now corrupted by Death. Strikes surroundings with a **storm** of Death lightning. Inflicts Death blight upon foes. Charging extends duration of the **storm**. It said that this golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn, who befriended Fortissax.“ All of this paints a theme of Gold vs Silver, One Eternal City(Seat of the Sun) vs others(Seat of the Moon?).
Hmm, like in ancient times, warlike cultures worshiping solar deities, conquering more primordial cultures worshiping lunar and chthonic deities, which was referenced in many pagan mythos.
Incredible video! This does bring up the question of the crucible. I feel like it’s implied that the crucible was revered, if not worshipped, and was the predecessor of Erdtree worship. The crucible was symbolized by red gold, paralleled by red lightning, which became normal gold with Erdtree and the dragon cult. I’m just wondering how these pieces fit together
Well Done tying REAL world history into the Elden Ring Story! Very Plausible and another example of the wide spanning branches of Miyazaki's imagination. Thanks for your work here!
This is by far the most interesting and well researched elden ring channel I've come across. Everytime you deliver great content which isn't the same surface level information but a in depth exploration of the real world inspiration. Keep up the amazing work
This is like when i first started watching Ancient Aliens, this series is absolutely amazing and i usually am an old miser about things like this. Gargantuanly well done.
This channel blew my mind. Far and above the best one on the lore. After understanding the real world inspiration everything is so much clearer and makes sense.
How, does this not rival the top elden ring content. We talk about lore enthusiasts - this man is connecting elden ring to history. Holy please don’t stop l.
it warms my heart to see so much enthusiasm over these sorts of topics - no matter how much bullshit goes around about how modern generations are obsessed with superficial trivial nonsense, I think these comments prove otherwise. There is an immense thirst for knowledge and learning, humanity still got it
Thank you for good chronological explanation. But I still have several questions - 1. Where divine towers came from? You said they were built before old Uld dynasty arrived. So who built them? 2. How could old dynasties, who had worshipped sacred tree, become Eternal cities inhabitants, worshipping stars?
We hope to address these in future videos, but for now: 1. There is good evidence the divine towers were built by the same people who built the giant's forge. www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/v69s96/the_divine_towers_and_forge_were_built_by_the/ As we suggested in our "Holiday Special" video, this was likely the race of titans or ancient giants, the ones whose skeletons are found in the bedrock of Caelid and the Mountaintops. 2. Because they were subsumed by the Eternal City culture, like Rome and the more ancient centers of Egypt and Greece.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Glad you answered and thanks for the link :) About my second question - so it means that Eternal cities and their inhabitants lived and prevailed for a long time before Uld dynasty arrived to Lands Between? And firstly Eternal cities inhabitants and old dynasties people were, emm, like different nations? According to your video I understood as the old dynasties were literally first people of Lands Between, then they had somehow became Eternal cities residents. Or I got you wrong?
I love this type of content. I think it's pure genius. You are the only one able to go beyond the text lore and give in depth meaning to the inspirations for the game. Mind blowing. Bravo!
How do you even come up with this stuff. It's honestly incredible, you completely changed the way I thought of the plot of this game, and I do keep up with other content creators who talk about the lore as well. You are way ahead when it comes to your interpretation of ER, and I can't thank you enough for your willingness to share it with us.
Your videos are amazing, there are so many details about the world that just get missed by other lore RUclipsrs as they mostly focus on more tangible stuff like item descriptions. The combination of analyzing visual clues and looking for real-world inspirations brings your videos to a new level. However, I'm getting confused about the general timeline of the world as you're theorizing it. The general sequence of Ancient Dynasty -> Eternal Empire -> Saint And Tree era -> Erdtree era is pretty clear, but there are many questions. Mainly I'm not sure how Farum Azula fits into it, but some other small details too don't seem to fit. It would be really cool if you made a general timeline of the history of Lands Between - describing all the stuff in general terms, maybe with links to your previous videos for more details about your theories.
Bro you blew my fucking mind with that Leyndell church find. I always thought it was just a random spot for a checkpoint, did not pay attention to the architecture AT ALL. I had no idea how far thought out this game's world was O_o
always excited to see one of ur vids! I'd like to point out you can see the nox throne motif not just in lower leyndell, but also in alot of the baroque architecture of upper leyndell, especially the big gatehouse and ramparts that surround the fortified manor - they appear as small square flourishes on the walls and plinths
So glad to see another video! Great content as always, really thoroughly enjoyed the Eternal Empire ideas in the last video and am thrilled to see what more you've found!
Very fun timeline theory! I am a huge fan/supporter of the idea that humanity/Numen were originally a faith of astrologers, and Erdtree worship began later! Though ngl, the little sea critter bit at the beginning felt a LITTLE like a stretch - it seems more to me that lots of the Nokron/Nokstella iconography is meant to depict flowing liquid silver and/or water, shown as swirling silver inlays. This makes a lot more sense for their culture, and it's possible the iconography on their giant thrones is more depictive of a waterfall or just a continuation of that same generic flowing iconography. Or if we take Occam's Razor, it's just a generic design. There are some examples of that around too.
To me, they resemble the castings of lead into water, or molybdomancy, a New Years tradition many cultures have. This would also follow their astrological and alchemical leanings. That's how I saw their buildings, as well as the spooky ghost remains in the cities - as cast figures of lead or aluminium, with pools of quicksilver around them. The alchemical parallel also works well when one of their number goes on to found her Golden Order. And in an interesting twist, it can then be purified into white gold by a descendant of those traditions who has gone beyond her flesh, Ranni.
Astounding work, this whole Elden Ring playlist is incredible. I can't fathom the hours Miyazaki / Martin and perhaps other scriptwriters spent on this game - so much details - this is insane. Thank you for those delightful moments.
Incredible video. These details enrich the game so much more. What blew me away in this one is the connection that was made with Ancient Egypt, and the influence the architecture of the Temple of Isis at Philae had on the rotten underground segment of the game. ♥
Awesome video! I was just wondering if you can give your thoughts on this question I had since your Faram Azula video: In your opinion, would you place the timeline of Placidusax placing himself in the storm beyond time and his god fleeing before the Age of the Crucible, or after the Age of the Crucible, during Godfrey's various wars? One thing I couldn't understand is how and why Placidusax received his injuries, especially since he's missing 3 heads and is badly wounded. I originally thought that Placidusax was possibly the Storm Lord that Godfrey defeated, and that the War against the Ancient Dragons was what resulted in Placidusax getting his injuries from Godfrey (hence why his other 3 heads might have been chopped off), and Godfrey's and Marika's victory would have resulted in his god fleeing and Placidusax creating the storm beyond time to protect himself and await their return. It would explain why the War against the Ancient Dragons happened, and why they might have attacked Leyndell. And it might have explained the presence of Marika during that time period since you and Smoughtown explained in your video on the timeline that humanity was present in Faram Azula's time given how we can see carving of humans on the architecture, and since Maliketh was a Beast Clergyman and Marika's half-brother, it would explain his ties to the city as well. But your video about Serosh and Marika's origins in the ancient Dynasty cast doubt about the timeline in this instance. Did Placidusax fall and his god flee way before Marika and Godfrey began their wars, before the Greattree fell and the Age of the Crucible began, or did his god flee after Marika and Godfrey possibly defeated them?
A second thought: The Dynast also rediscovered the ancient Tree Worship tradition, since he unearthed something known in Farum Azula before anything else. So it’s not just a single interregnum, but a series of rediscoveries, perhaps each occurring with a new growth of a trunk (or trunks, in the Erdtree Era with its clonal Lesser Erdtrees). I wonder - did the trunk begin to grow before the Tree Worship faith was resurrected, or did the worshippers somehow encourage the growth of the trunk?
To clarify: the Tree Worship tradition is here being associated directly with the Greater Will, but I can’t necessarily prove that the ancient dragons also revered the roots/tree, only the Greater Will and the Elden Ring.
In addition to being an avid gamer, as an actual archaeologist and a history geek, I am simply awe-struck! This was something I did not piece together at all. And this answers pretty much every question I was pondering regarding Elden Ring lore. I am just flabbergasted. Good friggin' job, keep it up.
Having just faced the Elden Beast again, it looks to me like the flowing leaf-like arms and shape of the Nox (etc) "tree" that Tarnished Archaeologist discusses (mainly as a small water creature) may alternatively depict the early biological form of a young Elden Beast. Once I see it I can't unsee it.
This level of detail in the history and archeology and story is so complex and crazy (in a good way). It reminds me a bit of Ash Lake from DS1, how so much thought and effort is put into parts of the game that will almost certainly go unnoticed by a huge chunk of the playerbase. I think part of what makes these games so long-lasting and replayable is how much there is to discover when you really pay attention to small details and think things through from many different angles, even after many playthroughs.
I know it's a bit off-topic, but I hope one day to see your take on the black hexagonal architecture seen from the cliffs and beaches just south of the standed graveyard, the Radahn zone/Dragonbarrow cliffs and especially in the Mountaintops of the Giants. Are they even supposed to have been build by something, or are they more like an act of nature, evocative of basalt hexagonal columns. Also, I think I need a timeline with each of these empires having their own line or row in it, because I am losing track of the number of Elden-thing empires/trees that have existed. Is it 3 or 4 (or 5)?
My personal guess is that they are of the same or similar culture that made the Divine Towers. Since in an earlier episode the Archaeologist mentions the 'saint and tree' society as having built the bridges to literally reconnect with old faith, perhaps it is the ancient dynasty themselves that built the divine towers?
I was playing last night and noted the illusory sprout and golden seed in Nokstella. Given the source of those seeds and illusory trees and the associated burning event, it further evidences the fact that the eternal cities were banished after the first burning.
I have to wonder if the connection here could be stronger… it’s heavily implied elsewhere that the Night of the Black Knives was the cause of (or at least a catalyst to) the Shattering, Godwyn’s impossible death driving Marika to shatter the order she’d created by excising Destined Death from the Elden Ring once that supposedly deathless order failed to protect her son from dying. This reading implies that Godwyn’s death (that is, the simultaneous “debut” and and fall of the Black Knives) preceded the fully established power of the Golden Order, and thus the golden age of the Erdtree, the age of plenty. I feel this association of the Black Knives’ plot with the “succession crisis” of the age of the Crucible muddies the timeline more than it clarifies any lore, though I applaud the attention to detail in sussing out Nox culture. I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the timeline if so, since this “succession crisis” era necessarily predates the reunification of Marika and Radagon into a single being (Godfrey was the establishing force of the Erdtree empire leading into the age of plenty, would thus have been Elden Lord at the time), and the resulting implications on Miquella’s relationship to Godwyn since the former would (at the time) have yet to be conceived.
I too am now confused by the relation between the "Nox" eternal empire era, the crucible era, the 'beastial empire' era and the 'saint and tree'-era. I was vaguely under the impression that the crucible rather smoothly transitioned (by Fromsoft's grimdark metric anyway) into the current Erd tree/age of plenty/Golden Order era, thus ending the beastial era, and that the roads connecting the eternal cities were build in this era. But then Nokstella and Nokron would have to have been on the surface still, or at least not yet 'banished below'. Is TA implying that the burning/felling of of the old 'saint and tree'-era Great Tree was the act that cast the Nox underground? I think I need a Tarnished Archeologist video specific timeline picture to sort this all out.
The breadth of knowledge and imagination of GRRM and Miyazaki blows my mind. Thinking about their worlds is like looking at one of those insanely realistic sculptures or the Sisteen Chapel or looking at the Milky Way in a clear night sky.
i don't often leave comments but I have to share this. in every souls game (except sekiro obviously or bloodbourne since i play on PC) i've built a dark sorceress called Hypatia. i imagine she is now undead, a bearer of the curse, an unkindled, a tarnished or whatever the case may be; taking revenge on her murderers with a sense of irony. "you accused me of sorcery? well... let me show you sorcery!" zooming out some, as a history nerd and a fromSoft nerd it's hard to overstate my appreciation for this channel. so much enumerated here that i simply wouldn't have noticed or considered otherwise. as if i weren't already in enough awe at how ingenious these games are! and thank you for shouting out Hypatia of Alexandria
Great work! Only a crazed historian/archeologist could do the amazing work you've done!! Having studied the themes that you're talking about and having played the game words can explain the great work in place!
I wish to ask: What is your academic history? You have a great insight into architecture like no other lore hunter. I'd like to know where you are coming from when you investigate so thoroughly into a single aspect of the game
Something that keeps on gnawing on me about Godwin's form and the eclipse and the story in general is that it kind of reminds me of some old stories I heard about Chinese dragons. One story being that the sun was supposedly devoured by a dragon during an eclipse and that the villagers would have to bang on pots and pans to scare monsters and beasts away. Another was a story about how a carp climbed a river up a mountain and eventually jumped over something called the dragon's gate. Apparently this so impressed the gods that the carp was turned into a golden dragon. Finally, I heard one description of a dragon that really reminded me of Godwyn. Apparently dragons were made out of parts of other animals. claws of a tiger the face of a lion, antlers of a deer, the underbelly of a clam and scales on it's side like a carp's. Apparently the five fingers was particularly important for some emperors of china and that only they could display a dragon with five fingers. I'm not sure what any of this means but maybe Godwyn is reverting back to his carp self.
Jesus, learning rhe inspiration for Black Knives si just so mindblowing. It'a one thing about learning about in-game lore AND another learning about its parallels and inspiration from real events. Damn.
this has been fascinating to watch. these videos help piece together lore and history that even across my 3 playthroughs i could not grasp adequately. what seemed to me like innocuous reusages of models in game paint a much larger story than i thought. miyazaki and martin created a remarkable world, deriving from real world history.
Wow this might be some of the most groundbreaking Elden Ring lore I've seen. Really impressive stuff. I'm so intrigued now towards the motives of the shardbearers. Specifically, those who Morgott lists as "willful traitors" when we fight him at the base of the Erdtree. Does this mean they all had a part to play in the Night of the Black Knives? Obviously, we know Ranni was instrumental. Ryckard and Radahn seem to be connected tangentially. Godrick could have been making a play for the throne by eliminating those in his lineage closer to succession. Melania and Miquella are a mystery to me though. I thought they liked Godwyn! Absolutely glued to this channel to see what they uncover next!
I knew new lore hunters would appear with elden ring, but i never expected someone like you
He draws so many connections it can be dizzying
as an archeologist myself, this shit is what I live for. Love this channel
One of the best channels right now 🙌🏽
@@theamazingfuzzlord And they're like not completely bullshit either - they're like probably true. Crazy stuff.
This stuff is top tier!
The more I learn about how this game has taken from human history, the more I understand what Miyazaki means when says he's going to make something more abstract. He's finally at a point that he's touched so many points of actual history that he's finally free to be creative beyond direct inspirations. Can't wait to see that game.
Miyazaki ascended
Will he ...... show the dog? 🤔
@@36AjT9 that's the point. He'll move on completely. He'll never have a dog.
All the Soulsborne games were just a part of an elaborate ritual meant to help Miyazaki ascend to godhood. Now he will move on and create his own universe
Miyazaki always alternates between an abstract game and a more "concrete" one, according to his own interviews.
Abstract: Demon's Souls
Concrete: Dark Souls
Abstract: Bloodborne
Concrete: Dark Souls 3
Abstract: Sekiro
Concrete: Elden Ring
Abstract: Armore Core? *EDIT: Looks like Miyazaki is not involved in Armored Core VI as he was in other games, so it probably won't fall into his own alternation, kind of like Dark Souls 2.
I HAVE BEEN BANGING MY HEAD over the apparent discontinuity between 'Elden John' tree worship and the Eternal Cities, and never even considered the 'rediscovering older prophecies' part. This makes perfect sense. Thank you for putting this all together into such a compelling and detailed narrative.
JOHN ELDEN RING!!?! THE CREATOR OF THE ELDEN RING!!?! HES REAL ALL ALONG!?!!?
@@okname5335 He's as real as Ranni's love for you 😜
Fucking ELDEN JOHN LMFAOOO
Mohgs Dialogue after his death make sense now and the location, he wanted to be the new Dynast
If they were stargazers, they might be more nocturnal and have their light blocking windows to help sleep and keep their eyes accustomed to darkness
That's what I was thinking and/or some form albinism. The character models are always pale but you never see the eyes so I can't be sure
You are like toldinstone but with a focus on Elden Ring, weaving real world historical inspirations to give added context to the elements in game. Eloquent, entertaining, and educational. Thank you!
Love his channel. Everyone here should check him out.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist Fat champions, not so naked statues, and War ants.
Stories from the Eternal Empire.
That's a great point and I think you are right
@The Tarnished Archaeologist I would like to get your opinion on what I see in that symbol. I believe it is based on the Ediacran animal Charnia (the Ediacran is time before the Cambrian explosion which was for the longest time considered the first time of macro species, but later the VERY WEIRD & ALIEN Ediacran was found to be the first. which Most fossils that we have found are from Species of animals/plants have NO living relative, or even a modern equivalent) Specifically Charnia MASONI From the Charnwood Forest in England. is a far older, more ancient, and fitting better with your analysis of "Almost alien, so far removed that it has nothing in common with anything now"
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charnia
ruclips.net/video/ipkBmbi6k5c/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/Spk0edEuNbQ/видео.html (this is the best reference)
Some references for you. I hope that you will look these over, and consider whether you agree or not.THIS IS WHAT IMMEDIATELY CAME TO MY MIND WHEN YOU FIRST STARTED ELUDING TO THIS SYMBOL IN EARLIER VIDEOS
@@tarnishedarchaeologist I would like to say that the fact that the two crucible knights that are named are named after the selurian, and the ordivician period, both came after the Ediacran period, that this would add weight to my theory. as this was before the crucible.
I like to imagine GRRM watching these videos and going "yes, yes, he figured it out!"
We're on to you George.
I would guess that most of the world building is Miyazaki's work.
I think that's why we find obvious "Martinisms" which are all 60's fantasy and French and English wars focused characters intermingled with these nods to ancient Assyria, Judea, Rome, etc. The Conan the Barbarian, Robert the Bruce and Cuchulain stuff is all Martin. Everything else is Miyazaki and team.
It's probably not as two dimensional as that in its entirety. But that's my general impression from the interviews, obviously never explicitly stated. Though I would guess that Miyazaki had more than a heavy hand when it came to Malenia, Miquella and Marika's characterization.
@@rainbowkrampus As I understand it, GRRM wrote the backstory for the world, and Miyazaki did all the actual in-game writing. It's possible this is just Miyazaki's doing, but something so fundamental as which world history to base the story on feels like George would've been at least involved
@@arabidllama Realistically it's probably a combination of the two of them. We know that both GRRM and Miyazaki are fans of the intersection between history and fantasy, and history is known to repeat itself, or more accurately for similar scenarios to repeat. It wouldn't surprise me if GRRM and Miyazaki had different specific ideas when they were writing that happened to fit the same overall theme when everything was joined together. After all, the Sicarii may be one of the most iconic groups of shadowy assassins striking at major political powers for social and religious reasons but they were certainly not the only ones. Whether GRRM and Miyazaki were thinking of the Sicarii, the Hashashins, the Guy Fawkes Gunpowder Plot or something completely different, all three of those examples and more fit the same general narrative even if they have more or less completely different social, religious and cultural reasons for existing.
@@quintonhoffert6526 I have no idea if this was an inspiration or not, but the thing that came to mind immediately for me was the assassination of Julius Caesar. I'm not saying he has any parallel in the game (I don't know enough about the characters in the game or Caesar himself to be able to confidently make connections), but the thought of a mass of dagger-wielding assassins taking out near enough a god among men really popped for me, you know? Even if it has no connection at all, the imagery is so evocative - I love it so much.
The more historical references that are uncovered, the more I see GRRM's hand in writing the setting.
Virgin ER Analysists: lol "Marika's tits" was definitely GRRM's contribution
Chad ER Analysists: 1st century Jewish assassins of Roman officials wielding curved knives have a distinct similarity to the Black Knives in game. GRRM's contribution is a retelling of the most infamous and pivotal moments in history through the lens of gripping fiction.
I mean, you might be right to an extent but all Soulsborne games have historical references in them. It's not something new to Elden Ring. Miyazaki is a history buff and from what I've heard a huge fan of European medieval history. Excluding Sekiro all of the Soulsborne games take huge influence from European history.
This comment is far more correct than many people might realize. George r.r. Martin's favorite period of history is post Byzantine Britain up to the war of the roses. These are all core historical contexts used specifically in Elden ring.
I’m interested in two major elements here - one, the period of the tree faith before Marika. After all, we have tree iconography that predates her, and we have the crucible - so, when were the other trees, and other periods? Was the first felling before the Nox, or after? One plausible series of events would leave the Nox on the surface until they strike out agains the early tree faith (when Marika was young, perhaps, given the lifetime of Numen)… and that leads to number two.
I’m strongly of the opinion that the Fingerslayer blade tells us what the Nox did to enrage the Greater Will and be plunged below the earth - they killed a god, though a lesser one than Marika became. Perhaps, then, this was the first felling - the tree religion entered a crisis after the Nox and a divine punishment by the GW, which ultimately concluded with Marika and the Golden Lineage. The Nox, it would seem, have long memories of their failed first attempt.
I do have one major disagreement - I think a tree existed in the time of the Dynast, or at least, I think the roots did. The Dynast is depicted with roots and even, in the Belfries, with a tree. His lack of throne doesn’t guarantee his lack of tree, after all. Regardless, I think that his dynasty (given, well, the meaning of ‘dynasty’) ruled for some considerable time, perhaps fading in the face of the Nox’s own ascent.
Spot on, as usual, friend.
- Agreed that the Fingerslayer blade refers to the slaying of a God (and not the slaying of fingers), though it was beyond the scope of this video.
- Totally agree about the roots existing before the tree. Perhaps this is what is shown in the Farum Azula Elden Ring...
If you'll bear with us, we plan to address exactly that question very soon.
I think in a previous video he already pointed out that there was another tree before the erdtree but its location wasnt the same, and its where the colosseums are pointing at
I'm assuming the fingerslayer blade is the one used to fell Godwyn. Following the previous video, it made sense that the Eternal Cities were banished after Godwyn's murder.
Only problem is that the Eternal Cities seem quite stable and intergrated with their environment, like they've always been there.
Occam's Razor points us towards towards the Divine Towers. The blade is called "Fingerslayer" after all, and we find dead Two-Fingers atop every one of them.
@@Xandros999 Maybe "banished underground" refers to how early Christians had to keep their religious practices hidden.
The thing I was thinking of when you were bringing up the designs on the mega-thrones, was that it called to me a artistic depiction of the Elden Beast from above, with its wing-like appendages.
Agreed. Though it does seem that since the picture was made, the Elden Beast has gained some weight ;-p
Yeah, that thought occurred to me as well
Looked like a fern or tree to me, but it's extremely vague and could be a number of things
I thought of the star beings like astel. Goes in tandem with the star worshipping and astel being an actual star, and finding astel in the underground cities.
Dude... you just cleaned up one of the BIGGEST MYSTERIES of Elden Ring! This is incredible! Amazing! THANK YOU!
You deserve many more subscribers. Not only for deciphering the mythos of Elden Ring, but also for inspiring people to learn more about the history of mankind.
Babe, wake up. New Tarnished Archaeologist just dropped
I was about to take a nap, but that can totally wait
I just had a nap, least i got this to wake up to 🤌
Chrightt and our friend here are the only two I wake the Missus up for.
Maidenless viewers hitting your comment with thumbs down
Gawd dude.
I seriously cannot come up with words with weight enough to truly express the degree to which your video series has enriched my experience with and understanding of this game.
So I'm just going to say this instead: Thank you. So very much.
What a wonderful compliment.
I don't know, until you mentioned the critter I saw a plant / primitive tree.
What you see as segmented legs / gills I personally see as drooping leaves.
These high quality lore videos take so much time and research to make. There's no way he'll drop another one so soo-
Not sure if you have noticed but in Elphael the walls of the city (you have to climb roots to see them clearly) are full of tree brances filled with babies and buds.
I think he has given note on them in a previous video regarding the Haligtree 😋
where do you have to climb? Can you specify a bit?
The dead scorpion god of rot in the grand cloister certainly evokes the image of the Egyptian god Serket as well.
Edit: The Sacarii dagger looks almost identical to the erdsteel dagger in-game. This helps establish the timeline of dagger reforging. Erdsteel daggers converted to blades of calling, converted to black knives. Alternatively the erdsteel dagger is the base and the other two are two possible parallel forms instead of a linear progression.
I'm a bit confused about when and how the reign of beasts and dragons would slot into this framework - particularly if Serrosh is a significant ruler of the Crucible Era. How would he (or the Stormlord) have existed within the context of a crumbling Saint-and-Tree Empire, which is now at this point an age away from the Eternal Empire, which is itself an age or more away from the rule of Farum Azula (which seems contemporaneous with the Uhl Dynasty and the giants, as all of them share certain motifs)?
This is what I’m confused about as well. Maybe we’ll get some clarification
Serrosh is cleary a different kind of beast than the Beastmen. I think Serrosh and the Stormhawk King (Stormlord, most likely him) are more in line with being the original rulers of places like Stormveil, RoundTable Hold, Castle Morne, etc.
In the timeline, all these locations show Great Tree depictions in their oldest stratum, with later additions of the Crucible statues and the final additions of Marika's era statues. These places are dripping with details from 3 eras. But i think the Great Tree depictions in Stormveil would make sense to be of the final days of the Great Tree, perhaps even post-destruction of the Great Tree.
We don't actually have any decent clues about what life was like during the Great Tree era, possibly the destruction was so vast that most history was lost.
See western Europe between the 6th and 10th century and the "obliteration of history" that took place, during those centuries we know more about the Eastern Roman Empire and the Middle East (Muslim Golden Age 8th-9th century) since they were much more advanced having not gone through a collapse unlike Rome/Ravenna/etc.
Hmm. Maybe the timeline goes like this:
1. Ancient Dragons
2. Crucible
3. Eternal Cities
4. Golden Order.
It makes for a nice progression in terms of the values of the metals associated with these eras.
1. Ancient Dragons ruled over the beasts, who used stone tools.
2. The Crucible era is associated with red-tinged gold, which may be seen as copper.
3. The Eternal Cities are associated with silver (Silver Tears, Silver Fireflies, you name it).
4. The Golden Order is associated with, of course, gold.
So we have stone-copper-silver-gold in terms of the progression, materials of progressively greater value.
@Ates Goksu yes exactly very much like the real world and we know Michaela was going to usher the age of unalloyed gold or untainted gold perhaps DLC or a future series
I kind of assumed the Dragons and their beastmen ruled over the age of the crucible and their order was the 1st incarnation of the Golden Order as the Red Gold color that marks the age of the Crucible also marks the Red Gold wielded by the Ancient Dragons also note how all the aspects of the crucible wielded by the Crucible knights seem Dragonic in nature: Fire breath, reptilian tail, reptilian horns...
Then for whatever reason the Crucible age and the Dragon Order came to an end when Placidusax's God disappeared after likely likely abandoned by the greater will and Marika was selected as the new Vessel and establish a New order for a new age and Placidusax took Faraum Azula into Sky when he retreated beyond time.
Another eminently enjoyable and beautifully articulated masterpiece. And I'm STILL confused as to how this channel only has 12.7k subscribers... seriously. How is this possible?
You are absolutely the best lore channel handling Elden Ring. Thank you so much for doing this series.
No day like Tarnished Archaeology video day!! Highlight of my week whenever you post!
At 5:51 you talk about the symbol on the back of the Nox Thrones being a brachiopod. That makes sense from the pictures that were provided, but I’m wondering, could the brachiopod design actually be reference to the Elden Beast? We know that the Beast came down from a golden star, (possibly during the Age of Stars) and if you look at the design of the Beast, it has a head and a tail that are somewhat symmetrical, and it’s “wings” have little “stems” similar to the gills found on brachiopods. It would be easiest to look at if you could T-Pose the Elden Beast, but it’s tough to tell from what we see in game.
"FOUL TARNISHED Archeologist is on honey!"
Really well-made and interesting video. This gives so much clarity to the history of the Lands Between and the backstory of the events of the game.
One thing that has been bugging me is, where does the civilization of ancient dragons and beastmen that built Farum Azula fit into all this? Do they predate even the Divine Tower era, or did they develop parallel to another civilization? The fact that they evidently worshipped the Elden Ring and had an Elden Lord makes it seem like they were a direct predecessor to the current Golden Order, but the age of their ruins and lack of tree iconography seems to indicate that they far predate almost every other civilization in the Lands Between.
I think that the rediscovery of Tree Worship has happened multiple times - the ancient roots and the Elden Ring have been there the entire time, from the beginning of all things. The Dragons faded and later the Dynast rediscovered it; the Dynasty ended and eventually the Blessings of Sap religion resurrected it. The tree keeps growing back, until the Ring’s own vessel/bearer shattered it, a catastrophe on a totally new scale.
I was here before you blew up.
Please do not stop sharing your wonderfully insightful analysis of the unbelievably subtle detail woven into this game.
I know I am not alone when I say it is such a breath of fresh air to consume content like this.
You obviously have a passion for the nuance of your field and a gift for providing thoughtful commentary.
Your labors do not go unnoticed, as it seems the overwhelming majority of your audience shares my affection for your content and are similarly hungry for more.
This is an awesome format and you are very much onto something.
Excited to see your future videos and I am looking forward to seeing when your videos inevitably break into the mainstream.
Easiest sub of my life.
I can't wait for your Volcano Manor breakdown, you seem to have a pretty solid idea of what Rykard's all about. Now that you mentioned him being connected to the eternal cities I'm gonna pay attention for leaded windows next time I'm there.
I wonder what "banished underground" really means when it comes to Nox. Their cities clearly look built into their surroundings (grand lifts and stuff) so they probably were always underground. But maybe they used to have an above-ground component (lower Leyndell, Sellia, maybe the older part of the Academy Town in Liurnia) that was either repurposed or completely destroyed (I wouldn't be surprised if there was a town around the Lift in Limgrave that was razed to the ground when the Nox were banished)
like the mistwood ruins? tho they aren't in condition to tell how old they are
honestly that part of limgrave seem quite empty, specially if you consider that haight fort is nearby, there should be more settlement around...
After reading your comment i've got a thought that maybe like in Dark Souls 1, humanity originates from underground and slowly climbs above the ground as civilisation become more advanced. Like a metaphor of climbing the evolution ladder, humans in Elden Ring literally climb up. With your logick "banished underground" would mean to destroy everything on the ground level, without any magical mambo jumbo of sending entire cities underground :). And it makes perfect sense imo.
BTW. Correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't Selia the only eternal city that has empty giant throne? That would explain why Selia was spared - they resigned in last moment from creating their giant ruler.
I thought they were always underground, but the giant sinkhole in Leyndell is very suggestive. The outrageous location of Raya Lucaria as well. I can't reconcile these themes either.
This is something that always stumped me as well but I think if we look at the description for the Eternal Darkness spell it makes a bit more sense. To me it seems they were literally sucked into a black hole and transported underground, fales night sky and all, save for The Eternal City of Leyendell which had its night sky taken away.
@@grandthaumaturgist Interestinggg idea concerning Sellia. That would also explain why Radahn, a Golden Order fanboy would be okay with going there to learn sorceries himself.
Not to be overly effusive, but A) this is the greatest game of all time; and B) I love you.
Seriously I've seen trying to put these pieces together for a while now, indeed just yesterday I noticed that the lower Capital Church has a Saint and Great Tree altar rather than a Nox altar just yesterday, and you've just laid it all out in exquisite detail and clarity. I'm so grateful to you, and I enjoy your work so very much.
Also, it's Orthodox Christmas and Western Epiphany: great timing!
Thank you! Feel free to be effusive next time, we appreciate it :)
@@tarnishedarchaeologist of course! Incidentally, do you think there's any chance that Rykard's throne at the end of VM is based on the Crypt Chairs? There's no one to one matches in design detail that I can see, but I feel the overall effect is similar.
I don't think I can ever get over this channel. You're a mad lad.
I could listen to your videos for hours and hours. I can't wait for more episodes and I hope you continue making them!
I'm simply amazed by just how high quality these videos are.
You, sir. Are a genius!! The connection between the Grand Cloister (Temple of Isis) where the Kindred of Rot worship the Rot Goddess, and Malenia, Goddess of Rot (Isis herself) blew my freakin mind.
Edit: The whole video is mind blowing...your other video on the Eternal Cities and what used to lie in the now open pit on the other side of Leyndell's main gate also blew my mind.
There is definately a grasp of power at play. There are implications that the Golden Order did not start with Godfrey. It began in the Crucible, the age before the Edrtree. The fact that Maliketh is a high rank, BeastClergymen, and the shadowbound of Marika suggests she had a religious affiliation with Farum.
Gravel Stone Seal-
“ Sacred seal made from Gravel Stone thought to be an ancient dragon scale. Enhances Dragon Cult incantations of the Royal Capital.
The worship of the ancient dragons does not conflict with belief in the Erdtree. After all, this seal, and lightning itself, are both imbued with gold.”
Godwyn also founded the ancient dragon cult which, judging from the prayer book being found in Farum Azula, began there. It reads:
Ancient Dragon book Prayerbook -
“Prayerbook of the capital's ancient dragon cult. *A lost tome that never reached the Lands Between*.
Contains red lightning incantations.”
Farum Azula seems to work under its own hemisphere since the Sun is constantly present and stuck in a stasis most notably seen in the Great Bridge leading to Maliketh, also sharing similarities to the Eternal Cities with its Architecture hanging below ground.
Marika’s Hammer -
“Stone hammer made in the lands of the Numen, outside the Lands Between. The tool with which Queen Marika shattered the Elden Ring and Radagon attempted to repair it.
The hammer partially broke upon shattering the Ring, becoming splintered with rune fragments.”
The “denizens of another world” text found on the Numen Rune could very much refer to Farum Azula, with Marika being depicted with what looks like a dragon/serpent tail behind her in her statues. It even has traces of gold mimicking similar to the Ancient Dragons. The Mimics Veil is even called “Marika’s Mischief”. All this paints the Numens(Ancient Dragons) as the the shapeshifting counterparts to the Silver Tears, except Gold. Lannseax was a able to do this, I’ve heard Fortissax in the form of Fia, and Godwyn himself. It’s the only explanation as why we see two different versions of him(in game and story trailer). In the Deeproot Depths, the Finger Reader Crone refers to him as “Lord Godwyn - a Scion of the Golden *bough*”
The word bough translates to a main part of a tree or in this case “true lineage”. In the Japanese text, the same npc calls Godwyn the “Prince of Gold”, The heir to the Seat of the Sun aka Farum Azula(evidence being Destined Death being sealed there, all the Beastmen using the Sun Realm Shield, and of course the Sun being constantly present).
Godrick, in his boss fight dialogue he claims:
“Mighty Dragon, thou'rt a trueborn heir.
Lend me thy strength, o kindred.
Deliver me unto greater heights.”
Anything related to the dragons is and was considered divine at one point until everything crucible related had been shunned from history. Godwyn has a heavy association with dragons and it’s said he wielded “Golden” Lightning which can even be seen in the Placidusax fight.
Death Lightning Description-
Incantation that channels the power of the ancient dragon
Fortissax, now corrupted by Death. Strikes surroundings with a **storm** of Death lightning. Inflicts Death blight upon foes. Charging extends duration of the **storm**. It said that this golden lightning was wielded by Godwyn, who befriended Fortissax.“
All of this paints a theme of Gold vs Silver, One Eternal City(Seat of the Sun) vs others(Seat of the Moon?).
Hmm, like in ancient times, warlike cultures worshiping solar deities, conquering more primordial cultures worshiping lunar and chthonic deities, which was referenced in many pagan mythos.
I imagine it didn't hurt the comparison to Ancient Egypt that the Grand Cloister also sits next to a Red Sea.
Incredible video!
This does bring up the question of the crucible. I feel like it’s implied that the crucible was revered, if not worshipped, and was the predecessor of Erdtree worship. The crucible was symbolized by red gold, paralleled by red lightning, which became normal gold with Erdtree and the dragon cult. I’m just wondering how these pieces fit together
This is the greatest lore channel I've found. You've made my favorite game of all time even better, and I can't thank you enough for that
Wow, thank you!
Well Done tying REAL world history into the Elden Ring Story! Very Plausible and another example of the wide spanning branches of Miyazaki's imagination. Thanks for your work here!
This is by far the most interesting and well researched elden ring channel I've come across. Everytime you deliver great content which isn't the same surface level information but a in depth exploration of the real world inspiration. Keep up the amazing work
This is like when i first started watching Ancient Aliens, this series is absolutely amazing and i usually am an old miser about things like this. Gargantuanly well done.
This channel blew my mind. Far and above the best one on the lore. After understanding the real world inspiration everything is so much clearer and makes sense.
How, does this not rival the top elden ring content. We talk about lore enthusiasts - this man is connecting elden ring to history. Holy please don’t stop l.
TA is making the best Elden ring content on the Internet.
No contest. These videos are peerless.
it warms my heart to see so much enthusiasm over these sorts of topics - no matter how much bullshit goes around about how modern generations are obsessed with superficial trivial nonsense, I think these comments prove otherwise. There is an immense thirst for knowledge and learning, humanity still got it
You have some of the best work on a 'From' title since Redgrave and JSF on Bloodborne. Amazing videos my man.
The conceptual density of this game is mind blowing.
It’s been a joy to watch this channel develop. Thank you for connecting these dots and helping illuminate From Software’s genius.
I’ll say it again, this is by far the best Elden Ring content on the internet. Thanks for another fascinating video.
Thank you for good chronological explanation.
But I still have several questions -
1. Where divine towers came from? You said they were built before old Uld dynasty arrived. So who built them?
2. How could old dynasties, who had worshipped sacred tree, become Eternal cities inhabitants, worshipping stars?
We hope to address these in future videos, but for now:
1. There is good evidence the divine towers were built by the same people who built the giant's forge.
www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/v69s96/the_divine_towers_and_forge_were_built_by_the/
As we suggested in our "Holiday Special" video, this was likely the race of titans or ancient giants, the ones whose skeletons are found in the bedrock of Caelid and the Mountaintops.
2. Because they were subsumed by the Eternal City culture, like Rome and the more ancient centers of Egypt and Greece.
@@tarnishedarchaeologist
Glad you answered and thanks for the link :)
About my second question - so it means that Eternal cities and their inhabitants lived and prevailed for a long time before Uld dynasty arrived to Lands Between?
And firstly Eternal cities inhabitants and old dynasties people were, emm, like different nations?
According to your video I understood as the old dynasties were literally first people of Lands Between, then they had somehow became Eternal cities residents.
Or I got you wrong?
Going through the lands between after seeing your videos, dude I’ve learned to slow the hell down and look at EVERYTHING now.
This is a good candidate to the best channel I have ever found on youtube.
omg yes consider this the engagiest of engagements that was ever engaged!!!
I love this type of content. I think it's pure genius. You are the only one able to go beyond the text lore and give in depth meaning to the inspirations for the game. Mind blowing. Bravo!
How do you even come up with this stuff. It's honestly incredible, you completely changed the way I thought of the plot of this game, and I do keep up with other content creators who talk about the lore as well. You are way ahead when it comes to your interpretation of ER, and I can't thank you enough for your willingness to share it with us.
Your videos are amazing, there are so many details about the world that just get missed by other lore RUclipsrs as they mostly focus on more tangible stuff like item descriptions. The combination of analyzing visual clues and looking for real-world inspirations brings your videos to a new level.
However, I'm getting confused about the general timeline of the world as you're theorizing it. The general sequence of Ancient Dynasty -> Eternal Empire -> Saint And Tree era -> Erdtree era is pretty clear, but there are many questions. Mainly I'm not sure how Farum Azula fits into it, but some other small details too don't seem to fit. It would be really cool if you made a general timeline of the history of Lands Between - describing all the stuff in general terms, maybe with links to your previous videos for more details about your theories.
Bro you blew my fucking mind with that Leyndell church find. I always thought it was just a random spot for a checkpoint, did not pay attention to the architecture AT ALL. I had no idea how far thought out this game's world was O_o
always excited to see one of ur vids! I'd like to point out you can see the nox throne motif not just in lower leyndell, but also in alot of the baroque architecture of upper leyndell, especially the big gatehouse and ramparts that surround the fortified manor - they appear as small square flourishes on the walls and plinths
The Eastern Roman Empire saw itself as the inheritor of the Roman Empire because it was literally the same empire.
So glad to see another video! Great content as always, really thoroughly enjoyed the Eternal Empire ideas in the last video and am thrilled to see what more you've found!
Very fun timeline theory!
I am a huge fan/supporter of the idea that humanity/Numen were originally a faith of astrologers, and Erdtree worship began later!
Though ngl, the little sea critter bit at the beginning felt a LITTLE like a stretch - it seems more to me that lots of the Nokron/Nokstella iconography is meant to depict flowing liquid silver and/or water, shown as swirling silver inlays. This makes a lot more sense for their culture, and it's possible the iconography on their giant thrones is more depictive of a waterfall or just a continuation of that same generic flowing iconography.
Or if we take Occam's Razor, it's just a generic design. There are some examples of that around too.
To me, they resemble the castings of lead into water, or molybdomancy, a New Years tradition many cultures have. This would also follow their astrological and alchemical leanings. That's how I saw their buildings, as well as the spooky ghost remains in the cities - as cast figures of lead or aluminium, with pools of quicksilver around them.
The alchemical parallel also works well when one of their number goes on to found her Golden Order. And in an interesting twist, it can then be purified into white gold by a descendant of those traditions who has gone beyond her flesh, Ranni.
Astounding work, this whole Elden Ring playlist is incredible. I can't fathom the hours Miyazaki / Martin and perhaps other scriptwriters spent on this game - so much details - this is insane. Thank you for those delightful moments.
Incredible video. These details enrich the game so much more.
What blew me away in this one is the connection that was made with Ancient Egypt, and the influence the architecture of the Temple of Isis at Philae had on the rotten underground segment of the game.
♥
Without question, the best lore channel.
Awesome video! I was just wondering if you can give your thoughts on this question I had since your Faram Azula video:
In your opinion, would you place the timeline of Placidusax placing himself in the storm beyond time and his god fleeing before the Age of the Crucible, or after the Age of the Crucible, during Godfrey's various wars? One thing I couldn't understand is how and why Placidusax received his injuries, especially since he's missing 3 heads and is badly wounded. I originally thought that Placidusax was possibly the Storm Lord that Godfrey defeated, and that the War against the Ancient Dragons was what resulted in Placidusax getting his injuries from Godfrey (hence why his other 3 heads might have been chopped off), and Godfrey's and Marika's victory would have resulted in his god fleeing and Placidusax creating the storm beyond time to protect himself and await their return. It would explain why the War against the Ancient Dragons happened, and why they might have attacked Leyndell. And it might have explained the presence of Marika during that time period since you and Smoughtown explained in your video on the timeline that humanity was present in Faram Azula's time given how we can see carving of humans on the architecture, and since Maliketh was a Beast Clergyman and Marika's half-brother, it would explain his ties to the city as well.
But your video about Serosh and Marika's origins in the ancient Dynasty cast doubt about the timeline in this instance. Did Placidusax fall and his god flee way before Marika and Godfrey began their wars, before the Greattree fell and the Age of the Crucible began, or did his god flee after Marika and Godfrey possibly defeated them?
A second thought: The Dynast also rediscovered the ancient Tree Worship tradition, since he unearthed something known in Farum Azula before anything else. So it’s not just a single interregnum, but a series of rediscoveries, perhaps each occurring with a new growth of a trunk (or trunks, in the Erdtree Era with its clonal Lesser Erdtrees). I wonder - did the trunk begin to grow before the Tree Worship faith was resurrected, or did the worshippers somehow encourage the growth of the trunk?
To clarify: the Tree Worship tradition is here being associated directly with the Greater Will, but I can’t necessarily prove that the ancient dragons also revered the roots/tree, only the Greater Will and the Elden Ring.
Just made my day, thank you! 🙏🏾
Our pleasure!
I have been listening to dark souls lore since ds3 2016 and i would like to say you are one of the best for real
What a nice compliment, thank you
In addition to being an avid gamer, as an actual archaeologist and a history geek, I am simply awe-struck! This was something I did not piece together at all. And this answers pretty much every question I was pondering regarding Elden Ring lore. I am just flabbergasted.
Good friggin' job, keep it up.
What a lovely compliment. We plan to keep going as long as we have interesting things to say...
this is the best lore video out there
Thank you for your work, kind sir.
Don’t you dare go hollow.
This is what the Elden Ring lore community needs.
I’ll recommend your channel to everyone who’s fond of ER, this is fascinating and monumental piece of work.
Having just faced the Elden Beast again, it looks to me like the flowing leaf-like arms and shape of the Nox (etc) "tree" that Tarnished Archaeologist discusses (mainly as a small water creature) may alternatively depict the early biological form of a young Elden Beast. Once I see it I can't unsee it.
I noticed this was just mentioned a few days ago, credit.
Bro your output is insane
This level of detail in the history and archeology and story is so complex and crazy (in a good way). It reminds me a bit of Ash Lake from DS1, how so much thought and effort is put into parts of the game that will almost certainly go unnoticed by a huge chunk of the playerbase. I think part of what makes these games so long-lasting and replayable is how much there is to discover when you really pay attention to small details and think things through from many different angles, even after many playthroughs.
I know it's a bit off-topic, but I hope one day to see your take on the black hexagonal architecture seen from the cliffs and beaches just south of the standed graveyard, the Radahn zone/Dragonbarrow cliffs and especially in the Mountaintops of the Giants. Are they even supposed to have been build by something, or are they more like an act of nature, evocative of basalt hexagonal columns.
Also, I think I need a timeline with each of these empires having their own line or row in it, because I am losing track of the number of Elden-thing empires/trees that have existed. Is it 3 or 4 (or 5)?
My personal guess is that they are of the same or similar culture that made the Divine Towers. Since in an earlier episode the Archaeologist mentions the 'saint and tree' society as having built the bridges to literally reconnect with old faith, perhaps it is the ancient dynasty themselves that built the divine towers?
I was playing last night and noted the illusory sprout and golden seed in Nokstella. Given the source of those seeds and illusory trees and the associated burning event, it further evidences the fact that the eternal cities were banished after the first burning.
Simply Amazing. The historical connections with the real worlds, the archaeological proofs, the narration, everything here Is a work of beauty
Thank you for your videos! You explore lore in a way that no one else does
Impossibly great channel. How do you even do this?
Well we have our weekly sit down with Miyazaki-san and we just point to things in game and ask him "what the hell is this"?
@@tarnishedarchaeologist So... Quelaag?
I have to wonder if the connection here could be stronger… it’s heavily implied elsewhere that the Night of the Black Knives was the cause of (or at least a catalyst to) the Shattering, Godwyn’s impossible death driving Marika to shatter the order she’d created by excising Destined Death from the Elden Ring once that supposedly deathless order failed to protect her son from dying.
This reading implies that Godwyn’s death (that is, the simultaneous “debut” and and fall of the Black Knives) preceded the fully established power of the Golden Order, and thus the golden age of the Erdtree, the age of plenty. I feel this association of the Black Knives’ plot with the “succession crisis” of the age of the Crucible muddies the timeline more than it clarifies any lore, though I applaud the attention to detail in sussing out Nox culture.
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on the timeline if so, since this “succession crisis” era necessarily predates the reunification of Marika and Radagon into a single being (Godfrey was the establishing force of the Erdtree empire leading into the age of plenty, would thus have been Elden Lord at the time), and the resulting implications on Miquella’s relationship to Godwyn since the former would (at the time) have yet to be conceived.
I too am now confused by the relation between the "Nox" eternal empire era, the crucible era, the 'beastial empire' era and the 'saint and tree'-era. I was vaguely under the impression that the crucible rather smoothly transitioned (by Fromsoft's grimdark metric anyway) into the current Erd tree/age of plenty/Golden Order era, thus ending the beastial era, and that the roads connecting the eternal cities were build in this era. But then Nokstella and Nokron would have to have been on the surface still, or at least not yet 'banished below'.
Is TA implying that the burning/felling of of the old 'saint and tree'-era Great Tree was the act that cast the Nox underground?
I think I need a Tarnished Archeologist video specific timeline picture to sort this all out.
19:29 could also be inspiration for assassins creed and now that I think about it the Roman period was a very important era for assassins in that game
This channel is filling the void that vaatividya left when turning his attention more towards making movies and away from just deciphering the lore
The breadth of knowledge and imagination of GRRM and Miyazaki blows my mind. Thinking about their worlds is like looking at one of those insanely realistic sculptures or the Sisteen Chapel or looking at the Milky Way in a clear night sky.
i don't often leave comments but I have to share this. in every souls game (except sekiro obviously or bloodbourne since i play on PC) i've built a dark sorceress called Hypatia. i imagine she is now undead, a bearer of the curse, an unkindled, a tarnished or whatever the case may be; taking revenge on her murderers with a sense of irony. "you accused me of sorcery? well... let me show you sorcery!"
zooming out some, as a history nerd and a fromSoft nerd it's hard to overstate my appreciation for this channel. so much enumerated here that i simply wouldn't have noticed or considered otherwise. as if i weren't already in enough awe at how ingenious these games are!
and thank you for shouting out Hypatia of Alexandria
Fascinating analysis of the lore of the lands between and through the lens of historical theology
Great work! Only a crazed historian/archeologist could do the amazing work you've done!! Having studied the themes that you're talking about and having played the game words can explain the great work in place!
You are my favourite ER lore creator… genuinely look forward to your videos
This has kindled in me an interest in real world archeology in a way that pop culture archeologists never could.
As an actual archaeologist, I am impressed. Well done sir.
Thanks!
I wish to ask: What is your academic history? You have a great insight into architecture like no other lore hunter. I'd like to know where you are coming from when you investigate so thoroughly into a single aspect of the game
I guess he has a master's in archeology 😊 at the very least.
He actually knows what he's talking about.
god, this game's world design is fucking incredible. awesome work unraveling all of this!
was watching your previous videos at 3 am today nice to see that after coming home from work im blessed with more lore for the game :D
Something that keeps on gnawing on me about Godwin's form and the eclipse and the story in general is that it kind of reminds me of some old stories I heard about Chinese dragons.
One story being that the sun was supposedly devoured by a dragon during an eclipse and that the villagers would have to bang on pots and pans to scare monsters and beasts away.
Another was a story about how a carp climbed a river up a mountain and eventually jumped over something called the dragon's gate. Apparently this so impressed the gods that the carp was turned into a golden dragon.
Finally, I heard one description of a dragon that really reminded me of Godwyn. Apparently dragons were made out of parts of other animals. claws of a tiger the face of a lion, antlers of a deer, the underbelly of a clam and scales on it's side like a carp's. Apparently the five fingers was particularly important for some emperors of china and that only they could display a dragon with five fingers.
I'm not sure what any of this means but maybe Godwyn is reverting back to his carp self.
Jesus, learning rhe inspiration for Black Knives si just so mindblowing.
It'a one thing about learning about in-game lore AND another learning about its parallels and inspiration from real events. Damn.
These are the best lore videos out there holy shit
Thanks!
this has been fascinating to watch. these videos help piece together lore and history that even across my 3 playthroughs i could not grasp adequately. what seemed to me like innocuous reusages of models in game paint a much larger story than i thought. miyazaki and martin created a remarkable world, deriving from real world history.
i like to think that was a shoddy cast reference at the end...
I loved their ES lore series, got me into video game lore
I discovered you a few days ago and have watched nearly everything you have posted now. Love It. Thank you.
Wow this might be some of the most groundbreaking Elden Ring lore I've seen. Really impressive stuff.
I'm so intrigued now towards the motives of the shardbearers. Specifically, those who Morgott lists as "willful traitors" when we fight him at the base of the Erdtree. Does this mean they all had a part to play in the Night of the Black Knives? Obviously, we know Ranni was instrumental. Ryckard and Radahn seem to be connected tangentially. Godrick could have been making a play for the throne by eliminating those in his lineage closer to succession. Melania and Miquella are a mystery to me though. I thought they liked Godwyn!
Absolutely glued to this channel to see what they uncover next!
Your work for the Elden Ring Community deserve's no less than a Nobel Prize!! By the way are you an Archeologyst in real life as well?