Disney Star Wars Has A Man Problem
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- Опубликовано: 18 апр 2022
- Why are the male characters in Disney Star Wars treated so poorly? In this clip from Happy Hour #46, Baggage Claim and I discuss how Disney consistently fails to write good male characters.
Развлечения
The greatest fighter pilot in a rebellion against tyranny, and a conflicted stormtrooper who risks his life to follow his conscience and betray everything he's ever known. Think about how awesome those two characters could have been in the hands of competent filmmakers. But... they weren't.
With different actors it could have worked.
@@BigPoppa-Monk nah the actors where good and great star wars fans too
@@BigPoppa-Monk the actors weren't the problem. All the actors have ranged from fine to great in other projects. Oscar Isaac may be one of the best actors working today, quite frankly (just please god can we stop pretending Daisy Ridley can do action?)
the problem was 100% on the production side. Shit scripts, bad direction, clueless producers.
Disagree the actors were fine
@Albo alt i think A New Hope is under-rated from a writing perspective. It's a simple, timeless story told exceptionally well in a visual way. Many movies, before and after, have tried to tell essentially the same story have failed because they get bogged down in exposition, worldbuilding, or needless complexity
Finn's whole personality was just "screaming the names of other characters" repeatedly.
REY!!!! 😆
He should have been the main character of TFA. The idea of a storm trooper breaking their conditioning and learning about being their own person (similar to an older movie "Soldier") would have been a very interesting story line. Instead he kinda "snaps" back and acts like a quirky urban dude from the 2020's, stupid humor and everything. Even that aside, we couldn't let Rey lose any of the spotlight as that was far more important to the people involved, of course.
@@MasterMalrubius 😂😂😂
@@blaze4metal That sounds like a much better movie! Great idea.
Plus, he's right there at the beginning of the film! Oh, I am really loving this idea.
They ruined Finn, the first movie set him up for something much greater than what we got
Finn was a huge missed opportunity. Themes such as child soldiers, dehumanising treatment and brutality of their programming, redemption, free will and liberation could all have been explored. He could have been a badass- but no, he has been made a slightly comic relief black man. They might as well have just made him jar jar Bink's grandson. Such a waste.
Absolutely , him actually having the force would have made for a whole different flick , but nope , gotta have the clown dance. Assholes.
Finn should've been a battle-hardened 30-something (none of that janitor malarkey) that finally realizes how evil the First Order is (should've been a true Imperial Remnant), who then deserts and tries to make amends for all that he's done.
Finn was a sign of where Hollywood was taking black characters. Betas that at the first sign of trouble tries to run until a strong woman kicks him in the butt and point him in the right direction.
@@Dori-Ma So many good story lines wasted by these hacks.
So much could have been done.
(From the drinker) He could have been hesitant to kill a storm trooper he knows because of their time together. He could try to persuade them, but fail. It would have been a great moment and arc for Finn
Rebel Soldier: “Quickly I have an urgent dispatch for the admiral! Where is she?”
Deck officer: “Just over there with the purple hair and wearing the ball gown, staring vaguely out the window…”
Rebel Soldier:”No dude, seriously, where is the admiral?”
🙄
Because apparently putting an Admiral in a military uniform is somehow bad... You didn't even need to know anything about the character. Just one look at her outfit and hair tells you everything you need to know.
@@fattiger6957 _That's_ a place to subvert expectations; play with what TV Tropes calls the "Bunny Ears Lawyer." Because just about any quirks are forgivable as long as you win.
Mind, Holdo comes up short there, too, which just adds fuel to the dumpster fire.
@@boobah5643 It still is stupid. I don't think an evening gown is easy to move around in. With that kind of outfit, she's liable to trip on her skirt in a crisis situation. And she must spend hours doing her hair every morning. There's a reason military people always have short hair.
Lmao - Holdo was the worst character ever. Clearly just an expy of a Womyn's Studies professor at a half-rate junior College.
@@WhatAHorribleNight I thing "General Huggs" is just as worthless. He is just yelling orders and no one is listening to him. Does he not realize chain of command, and the fact that he is in charge of the Space Army not the Space Navy. This is like General Eisenhower running the war in Europe sending orders to Pacific Fleet junior officers and wondering why they aren't attacking Italy.
The evacuation scene in Empire shows a totally different and competent female leader Lea. Someone questions her about the transports and she answers that the ion cannon will fire to cover them… and that squashed the debate. 180 degrees different, 1000% better.
Yeah absolutely. She reassured her crew with the details of the plan, a viable plan that didnt include their deaths. She didnt berate them for asking a fair question. Lea was a good leader. Holdo is just a horribly badly written character that some roundheaded simpleton wanted to portray as in the right.
Leia. But yes 100%.
Agreed. But I do enjoy the Family Guy parody where one of the pilots asked to hear the orders from a military person, like a man.
@Ben G Right on.
And how about in Empire when Leia yells at Han Solo for not evacuating yet. Even though she is upset, she still cares aboit him (especially at the end). Also Han cares enough about her to make sure she gets outta there with him as they hustle.
I think the main issue is that Western men can't fathom a world that doesn't revolve around them
Yes, thank you!
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa” is infinitely more terrifying than destroying a wall of computer screens in a childish tantrum.
Exactly.
Vader was the concept of intimidation made manifest. Ben was a child playing a bad guy.
Kylo wasn’t supposed to be intimidating. He was supposed to be a man-child. They just had no idea how to make that character a relevant part of the the story.
That and "No disintegration!" while looking intently at THE REAL EFFING BOBBA FETT!
@@JoeMama410 Rhian Johnson master of subverting expectations. We expected a good movie, and boy did he subvert that expectation.
That's the point...
Disney is more worried about what the Chinese audiences think than actual Star Wars fans.
But the Chinese hate the new star wars too (except the CCP shareholders, of course).
It’s amazing, Star Wars was literally a religion. Disney purchased a religion, and the first thing they did was kills it’s gods and burn it’s bible. I’m still can’t believe anyone could be that stupid.
They are more concerned now with protecting groomers and woke politics
China is not known for having women in leadership positions
The irony is that such pandering will end up destroying everything that they are supposed to make money off of, meaning that these big franchises that they keep buying will be worthless in a decade or two.
Poe is third in command and has the rank of captain, why would you blackball him in an *emergency* life and death situation? He didn't even ask for the explicit details of the plan, he wanted to know if they even HAD A PLAN to begin with and her only response is basically "Lol shut up and trust me bro."
They simultaneously made Poe a "hot-headed flyboy" and the most reasonable person in the scenario at the same time and it's so bizarre.
It's because the people responsible, within the industry, are living in a bubble of narcissistic delusion, and so, in their heads, it works, they presenty themselves/wmn as superior and righteous, and correct, but for everybody else who isn't suffering from some form of NPD, (most of the auduence), the 'message'/'projection' is completely transparent, and so Po, genuinely shines as being the most reasonable character in these scenes/interactions, because he actually is, and the s* he's being subjected to + 'the message' is nothing more than projection, but the narcs behind the scenes, only percieve their projection, because they are disordered and that is their delusional reality.
It's bezzare to a healthy, level-headed person. It makes perfect sense if you've been subjected to individuals with these sorts of disorder, because they really do live in delusion bubbles, and they really do project their delusions as reality whilst completely rejecting actual reality.
It's rife in western society, and now rife in movie/tv industries.
And it conflicted with his characterization in Force Awakens: a competent leader and almost natural flying ace, hinting at some degree of Force sensitivity. In Last Jedi, his hot-headedness got most of his squadrons (and all their bombers*) blown up going against just 1 First Order Dreadnaught.
*which looked to be made for only surface bombardment and impractical for ship-to-ship space combat. Even the old Y-wings were made to carry different payloads!
@@louisduarte8763 Honestly though in context that was really Leia's fault for deploying him so far forward with ships ill suited for the mission and a severe lack of X-wing escorts if it wasn't a suicide mission all along.
By the time Leia had her little last second change of heart and tried to call them back it would've gotten those painfully slow ships killed anyways before they reached the safety of the hangar by the much faster Ties that were already closing on them at that point. Additionally while neither character knew this at the time Po ended up destroying the one ship that would have been able to easily outrange their attempts to escape during the slow speed chase scenes, if that Mandator hadn't been destroyed the Resistance would have ended about 2 or 3 minutes after the First Order jumped in behind them (it is designed to break GROUND BASED PLANETARY SHIELDS, a mere capital ship shield should stand no chance and fail rather quickly).
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled So Leia made that tactical error? Great, 1 more OT hero disrespected.
To be fair, Poe was so inept he managed to be a captain, in a group of, quote, “less than 400” people, that hasn’t ever seen his own admirals face…
“So that’s what she looks like” 🤦♂️
Imagine a teacher in a small primary school not having any clue who the headmaster was…
in any other movie, a ranking officer immediately insulting their subordinate in public for merely asking for a plan would be the stereotypical villain, not a heroic leader
My father spend several years as a commanding officer in the RCN, he thought she was a spy the first time he saw the movie because she was basically doing everything wrong when it came to command.
Lmao why can't these people make sense
I thought the same about her.
I read that originally she was supposed to be a spy, but they changed that midway though production.
@@danielserene4532 I could beleive that, she read like that for me in the movie when I first saw it.
Yeah I thought she was a traitor who was working for the first order.
People actually saying “you just need to shut up and follow orders” are hilarious. We had an international trial over this. You want the good guys to mindlessly follow orders?
Excellent point.
Also, in an actual navy ship, there are protocols for change of command when the captain seems incapable of performing his/her duty. It seemed to me that Poe was just following this protocol, and that he had the authority to do so as commander of the air wing.
I had a Sgt tell me "you're not here to think you're here to do as I say" . That weird ass mentality exists
@@Mrnitti196 in specific circumstances and at the lower ranks that is often the case. And overthinking things is often a detriment when the only thing needed is a strong back.
But being unthinking, and not being here to think is not the same thing.
Yes, “you just need to shut up and follow orders” could be the message of our times now sadly.
@@Mrnitti196 odds are you were an E4 or below. Right? E5 and up are paid specifically to think, plan, and execute/supervise.
A strong empowered woman can't apologize for making a mistake DRINKER don't be ridiculous.
Mistake? What mistake? Holdo don't make mistakes, you toxic male!
(I'm sure I don't even need to say I'm being sarcastic)
Not that I don't get sarcasm, but for those that don't know this, strength is measured by the ability to acknowledge, face up to and learn from one's mistakes. At least, that is one of its measures.
@@TheEvertw Pre-freaking-cisely. That used to be so obvious that it didn't even need to be said, but nowadays it apparently needs to be said, given that society is continuing to get dumber and dumber.
A strong empowered woman doesn’t make mistakes, hence there is no reason to apologize
Holdo is the kind of military commander that would have died in a “friendly fire accident” six weeks into her first command.
I kinda wish bane trilogy was made into like an adult animation show. Cause there was a “friendly fire accident” in the very beginning of the story)
I felt such a rush of satisfaction when I read your comment. Thank you @glenn Winn
Or get "promoted" to a desk job where they no longer command troops.
Less paperwork.
“I told you guys we shouldn’t have shot Lieutenant Neidermeyer!”
"All the male characters act like the negative stereotypes of women." Is it just me or does that sound very Disney and very intentional?
When I first saw the first trailers for The Force Awakens, I was sure Finn would have been THE main character. I thought seeing a Stormtrooper's path to redemption would have been a brilliant idea... But no...
Yep, an interesting premise for a story taken nowhere by incompetent writer's
I honestly thought that the whole reason Finn had his initial moment where he chose to reject the New order was because he was for sensitive and was feeling the emotions of the dying soldier.
It would have been amazing to have Finn become a Jedi too, and to have Finn and Ray be a new Jedi couple and the new Jedi leaders.
@@hariman7727 It was hinted that he was several times and they did absolutely nothing with it.
@@hanzotimothy677 A lot of people in my watch group came out with story ideas that were way more interesting and logical than what we ultimately got. Hell, I'm not even the most hardcore Star Wars fan and even I think they messed up big time.
@@JE3MAN Yeah, if you can pick 50 rando's from the street and they come up with better ideas, it's the absolute best proof for the fact that the writers are stupid and don't know shit.
The Holdo problem is this; Po being the fleets squadron commander is a fleet officer, much like the ship captains, where as the other officers of ship officers. Simply put he’s her second in command. It’s his job to support but also critique her plans. He can’t do either if she doesn’t tell him what they are. Second; you never, NEVER, dress down a high rank officer in front of enlisted. There are lots of reasons why for this but well peoples gut reaction is one.
Poe: "I need to know there is a plan."
Holdo: "No cuz spoilers."
Jsut watch the TNG scene where Data is put in command and has to discipline Worf for his insubordination, healthy boundaries are established WITHOUT insulting or belittling either character and both wall away with greater respect for each other then they went in with, even though if handled different this very well might have ended their friendship. THAT is a proper depiction of a competent leader getting his 2nd in command in line.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled That was one of the best scenes in TNG. Utterly professional conduct.
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled Drinker showed this in one of his Star Trek videos, showing how TOS and TNG handled arguments between command
Poe is neither a squadron commander nor Holdo's 2nd in command. He just got his ass demoted for insubordination and inability to follow orders by Leia.
In my silly head canon I always imagined Admiral Wedge Antilles taking the place of Holdo. instead of the Resistance running low on fuel, they are goading the First Order. Right when the First Order thinks they have them beat, Admiral Antilles says "deploy Rogue Squadron". Then an amazing space battle takes place
Don’t forget Wraith Squadron!
@@MrWildcat650 Indeed. 😎
In my headcanon these movies don't even exist
Hell yeah!
When rogue one was first announced I was so excited to see if it would be rogue squadron :/
My favorite part of the new trilogy is the part when a freedom fighter lectures an escaped child slave soldier about how evil slavery is.
Yes, because beat the clumsy message into all skulls
I spent two decades in the U.S. Air Force and saw all kinds of commanders. They ranged from smart and capable leaders to genuinely toxic, self destructive idiots like Admiral Holdo. Fortunately, those bad leaders usually didn't make it far though a few did (looking at you CSAF Jumper and Moseley). These movies show that the writers, directors and everyone else have never spent a single day in uniform. They don't even bother to have any type of military advisor on set.
I see that all of the time. People with no clue about how the military works writing military situations. Even worse, writers who don't even understand masculinity. I bowed out of The Expanse in season three when there was a co-ed barracks scene and soldiers of both sexes (yeah, I'm saying it: there are only two sexes) were strutting around with arms flared making fierce-sounding noises and doing chest bumps while making threatening scowls. Sure, I've seen that kind of behavior, either from guys whose balls only descended about a month ago, or grown men who immediately start laughing because they think it's a hilarious stereotype. I'm not watching (or reading) anything when it's immediately apparent to me that the writer/director/actor has no clue about their subject matter. Or even worse, when their cluelessness is married to some sort of agenda. I'm rereading a lot of classic literature and rewatching a lot of classic movies.
Case in point: Star Trek: Discovery
@@Pemulis1 it's the difference between the starship troopers book and the starship troopers movie.
The book Is A treatise on how to have a nationalist country while not becoming fascist / Nazi in the process.
The movie is a satire of military recruitment posters that turns the Good guys into a cross between the Nazis and Russia given the uniform styles and the tactics used, respectfully.
After 20 years in the U.S. Navy I can agree with everything you said, seen the same kind of leadership there also and it only got worse towards the end.
as soon as i saw Holdo i knew she'd be a train wreck. Uniforms are important in a military, they're a sharp visual reminder that you're all on one team, working together for a common goal. It why high ranking officers almost always present themselves immaculately dressed, to drive home the point that they are the representative of the military as a whole, this is not just a person giving you orders
And here's this dipshit running around in a ballgown...
What do you expect when we've come to a point where masculinity is predominantly viewed as toxic.
It's why the Halo show has been avoiding Chief actually being a badass at all costs. Because the game version, even at it's worst, had him take shit from absolutely no one.
@@kathleenhensley5951 they only complain about 'patriarchy' because a 'matriarchy' gives them the power and attention they want and think they should have
@@VincoVenator They never seen real matriarchy, lol. Hell, my friend comes from matriarchy tribe in Indonesia. It's not an utopia as the feminist think. It's just patriarchy, but women makes the first step in making relationship, instead of men. Men still going to work, women at home, supporting the families. Oh yeah, it's also women's family who pay for all the reception for marriage instead of the men's family. Wait, it's utopia for men, lol
@@arkhamwarden1205 A story where master chief just goes to a location, kills every enemy and then leaves? And this again and again like in the games. Nah that doesn't sound like a good story for a show in my opinion
@@Gejeeto You have no imagination and you're attacking a straw-men you yourself build up.
To quote Carth from KOTOR 1, "I know you're new at this, but a GOOD leader does NOT berate her troops. A good leader LISTENS to the advice of soldiers who have seen more battles than she ever will!"
Yes, in high pressure situations soldiers do need to just OBEY & not question. But in non-urgent situations a good leader CAN (and should) discuss, inform and reassure her troops if they have questions or are otherwise unsure.
TRUE, SOMETIMES a subordinate NEEDS to be "dressed down", but the BEST way is the method Data used in Star Trek the Next Generation when he "dressed down" Worf! He asked to speak with him privately & told him how displeased he was with Worf current behavior. Heck, after telling Worf that IF he cannot conform to the role of his new position, he would transfer him BACK to his old one, BUT he even said he would protect Worf's record by listing this as a "transfer" and NOT as a "demotion". THAT is Good Leadership!
These sheltered, agenda pushers have NO clue what a GOOD leader looks like!
I found it funny that the moment that Finn and Poe got to be in charge they were like "Welp, let's go defeat the first Order"... and they did it in like 30 minutes. Imagine if they had been running things from the start.
It's funny. When I saw Holdo in the theater I thought, "This is what happens when you promote politicians to commanders." It never crossed my mind that she earned her position from her merits. She didn't have the bearing or sense of an experienced military officer, hence why I thought she wasn't one.
It probably didn't help that she was wearing a ball gown on the bridge.
All modern sci-fi/fantasy resolves around women kicking ass. They "believe in themselves" and then they improbably thrash every man in sight. You can count on every modern movie/tv show ending with this device.
It's the new "by the power of friendship"
I've always said.. you might as well go back in time refill every single movie that ever had a man in it from the mayor to the president to the shoeshine boy replace them all with women every single movie from that time on would have nothing but women in it we're talking criminals villains romantic relationships you name it that's pretty much what we're headed for.
Go check "unplugged". It's not sci-fi, not even action movie. It's a comedy movie. But the archetype, ugh. Even they make the wife become stubborn like stereotypical father, going to a meeting, always losing their things around the house, always make their spouse stfu. and then you have the husband with stereotypical mother, cooking, calm and content, and wanted to go to vacation. Jesus, western entertainment is weird. My mom probably will yelling at the wife if my mom saw the movie of how stubborn the wife is, because losing something is what my dad always do, not my mom
The tide is changing. Disney has discovered that to Go Woke is to Go Broke, and the shareholders demand change. There is a (brief) power struggle now, but in the end business realities will win.
Their narcissism has infected our most beloved franchises.
I've noticed that Disney Star Wars doesn't understand how costuming can affect how the audience sees a character. If Holdo is meant to be this badass commander then they shouldn't have put her in an outfit that makes her look aristocratic. It sends kinda the message that she's very out of touch with people below her and is acting out of arrogance instead of wisdom. In Empire, Leia wasn't dressed to the nines while giving a briefing on Hoth yet she still has a commanding presence.
I remembered something about Finn being a janitor so I asked Google was Finn a janitor in Star Wars and this was the reply I got. Finn was a cadet who occasionally pulled latrine duty, not a janitor, and having him classed as such is insulting and racist.19 Apr 2019🙄
In my opinion it isnt racist, rather just a misunderstanding due to lack of explanation or further deep diving. Writers for the sequel trilogy weren't great. Finn would've been my favorite character if they knew what they were doing.
Yes, but removing him from posters and showing him actively waste his potential/sidelining the only black character in two movies isn't.
Finn can be written out in 2 and 3 with almost 0 effect on plot, though plot may be a bit generous.
GTFO that is insane.
I gotta screenshot and share that post haste.
But... He was a janitor. He says so in TFA. It was his job on Starkiller Base.
And the only reason they know about the hyperspace tracker or where it is on the FO ship is because Finn swabbed the floors in the room.
It was dumb, and it makes no sense to have a _Stormtrooper_ doing that job, and it makes no sense how Finn goes from cleaning the floor of the one plot-important place to cleaning the floor of the *next* plot-important place to doing his first fight on Jakku.
But sense and logic do not play a role in Disney Wars.
@@StarWarsomania Makes perfect sense to me to have a trooper be a janitor. As an infantryman we were all janitors. And landscapers, masons, etc etc. infantry does every job, then go off to fight.
Star Wars doesn't have a man problem. "Frank's wife" has a man problem. She's helped to turn a multi-billion dollar franchise into a multi-million dollar franchise, and all as revenge for having to get all those cups of coffee for Steven and George.
Woke culture is like auto racing. You can make a small fortune in it. As long as you start with a large fortune.
I would be honoured to get such great men cups of coffee, regardless of whether it was my job or not. If I then got control of one of their properties, I would strive to uphold THEIR legacy and not put messy political messages into it. She attempted to stand on the shoulders of giants, but her big head and ridiculous feminist messaging caused her to fall flat on her ass and she pulled Star Wars down with her.
There's nowhere to go, in fiction or in real life, for boys to just be with boys. Even the goddamn BOY Scouts allow chicks now!
my wife?!
no, in this case it's all of Disney. Nothing that comes out of that jumbled mess of a corporation is made with a single thought to what just under half the population may actually want... then they act shocked when their products badly under perform. Marvel has the exact same problem, and in a lot of ways is so much worse...
Wasn't Poe the CAG? he if anyone should have been in the "need to know" about the evacuation plan and be an integral part of the planning of it.
Also he would have been one of the people responsible for relieving a failing captain of command, as an extreme measure to save the crew or mission. I would imagine a large ship has procedures for this, in case a captain breaks under the stress of command.
if nothing else Poe was extremely popular and having him on your side at a time when the crew's morale is clearly low would have made life so much easier for Holdo. She didn't need to tell him everything, but belittling him in front of the crew and treating him like a fuck-up just adds more needless tension to an already tense situation. Good officers actually care about things like morale and unit cohesion... which is why the also tend to wear uniforms... and generally try to keep everyone working towards a common goal.
This is why Holdo's such a huge failure as a character.... she's just a really terrible leader the script treats like a noble hero
not to mention that if the plan was a quick, smooth transfer of all personnel from the fleet to a point they needed to hit in transit aboard essentially life rafts -- all while not raising a pursuing enemies attention -- not only should Poe have known the plan... everyone should've known that plan and been practicing/drilling relentlessly.
One thing that's also interesting here. The message there is "obey your superior unquestioningly", but isn't that the main thing of the empire ? Palps commands and the top brass follow, they command and the military maschine follows. Aren't most of the high rebels empire deserters ?
Lol, and pointed out in a comment above, it's also one of the important highlights regarding the defense of Nazi soldiers and officers during the Nuremburg Trials. Not to mention some of the highly morally questionable things that happened during the Vietnam War.
Big talk for Mr. "I am Franz, they will obey." over here!
The last Jedi is one of those movies that will go down in history primarily because of how pure an example it is of writing a solution in search of a problem. In this case, the idea was basically to "smash the patriarchy," and it's clear as day: The ENTIRE senior staff of the rebellion is female, the leader of which, amusingly, has purple hair and is dressed like she is going to a Met Gala. Every woman is significantly better at everything than all the men. And every male is treated like he is an arrogant, stupid, and misogynistic hothead, that needs to be put in his place, or he is going to Leeroy the shit, and blow the mission...
...Which would at least be thematically successful, if they pulled a Star Trek Discovery: in that [still terrible] show, there at least was thought into ACTUALLY creating an asshole douche-bro, who died while mansplaining the validity of a critical mistake he was warned of. It was effective and consistent, if not a bit on the nose (and irritatingly preachy). The problem with The Last Jedi, is that the writing staff was too stupid or lazy to actually make a misogynistic caricature of "the patriarchy" to vilify. Instead, they simply had their Mary Sue immediately lay into the first man she saw, seemingly presuming that ALL men are clearly the problem, and therefore, such a visceral reaction to ANY man is clearly justified. Meanwhile, anyone with a brain is left wondering if they missed a scene somewhere explaining the reason for such contempt.
It is this exact same twisted world view that led to the writing of such a toxic leader. The idea is that women are so much better, nothing they (the writers or the characters) come up with should ever be questioned by anyone, let alone a man. And what you end up with, is a leader unintentionally written with such massive character flaws because it is assumed she, and everything she does, is perfect by virtue of her identity, coupled with an extremely negative and combative attitude being thrown towards a male character they never bothered to actually portray as deserving of such contempt.
Basically, they were so busy trying to show a woman smashing the patriarchy, they never bothered to actually portray what they presented as "the patriarchy" to be anything remotely negative or problematic, let alone did they depict the woman as worthy of the respect she commanded. They wrote the solution, and totally forgot to write the actual problem.
7:09 "All the male characters act like stereotypical females...they're over-emotional or they're short-sighted or impulsive or insecure."
Thank you. I noticed the same thing. I'm reminded of the film "As Good as It Gets":
Woman: "How do you write women so well?"
Writer: "I think of a man...and take away reason and accountability."
It's a brutal line and it's always accused of being sexist and shocking. But there're so few who say it's actually wrong. lol
@@613harbinger316 "Boys will be fucking held accountable" has become a feminist rallying cry, but the truth of the world is that men always are.
Its women and girls that are protected from their fuckups because of their gender.
Great film
@@613harbinger316 It's blunt, but it's straight to the point. Lmao
One of the most intimidating moments in all of Star Wars was when Vader force choked Admiral Ossel while casually talking to Captain Piet and closing the conversation with “you’re in command now Admiral Piet” while Ossel collapsing on the floor dead. That’s really intimidating and scary.
I really love that moment in Empire.
The most troubling part of the Holdo character (& really that entire film) was that I don’t think the filmmakers realized what kind of character they wrote.
From the film & filmmaker’s perspective, everything Holdo did was right, everything Poe did was wrong, they were so clueless they didn’t even realize what they showed the audience was something entirely different.
I’ve never seen a film fail so hard at portraying the message it intended, & so clueless it didn’t even know it failed at portraying it.
I’ve said it before, & I’ll say it again, the Room is a more competently told story than The Last Jedi.
Yep, Po miraculously saved the Resistance at the cost of a handful of old mostly useless ships and got demoted and bitched at for it...
Its funny life imitated art. Because after the force awaken fans began asking for a plan and were coldly rebuffed. They began deserting mutinying turning to fan flicks and calling for the return of Lucas and boycotts of the films Kennedy is all but burned in effigy
Unpopular opinion: Indiana Jones has some issues that you don' agree with. He was just as bad as the opposing team who were out to steal indigenous treasures. He should have left the stuff where he found it
@@williampearson6299 No he isn't. The Nazi's wanted to literally weaponize thise relics, Indy wanted to put them in a museum where they could be safely preserved for the future. They are in no ways morally equivalent...
@@BertoxolusThePuzzled They don't belong in museums. They belong in their indigenous lands... like all those African treasures the British stole from the ruins.
Poe should have been promoted, as soon as Leia realized the First Order could track them. If he didn't lead the attack to destroy the FO dreadnought, it would have followed them and destroyed the fleet. Poe's instincts were correct, yet they still demoted him and treated him like crap!
Hell, funny thing is by US Navy rank structure, captain is a rank higher than commander, so it technically was a promotion.
Assuming the Resistance used the same rank structure as the Rebellion, all we got from movies was at the start of Empire Strikes Back, Han Solo was a captain and Luke Skywalker was a commander...and at that point it would make sense for Han to have more rank since he showed up with more experience and with his own ship to contribute to the fleet, while Luke only has his heroics from the first movie. But idiots who watch movies and subscribe to identity politics don't understand experience and competence, so they'd assume a movie protagonist would outrank a movie supporting character..
So? How interesting would it have been if they just patted him on the shoulder and said good job and didn’t go back to him for the rest of the film. He literally has almost no reason to be in the rest of the film except the end.
@@aidenhall8593 So? They are alive because of the attack on the dreadnought! He didn't have anything to do for the rest of the film because of the terrible writing. Since his instincts were correct earlier, they could have asked him for his ideas to get away this time. Holdo could have called a meeting of the officers to discuss ideas on how to escape. As the one in command, Holdo would have made the ultimate decision anyway but maybe there were other ways to escape she hadn't even considered.
@@WilliamTheMovieFan No I mean if they hadn't had this conflict then Poe would literally not have been in like 90% of the movie, it is because of this conflict that he is in it. I do agree with the not telling him thing though, that was dumb. But stop jerking off over it, everyone has known that for the 5 years since the movie came out.
@@aidenhall8593 So that's the fault of a badly written script, not justification for writing a terrible script.
I've heard people say that the original script for TLJ had Holdo being revealed as a traitor working with the First Order, but the studio panicked about it at the last minute and forced a script re-write to shoehorn in a heroic story for her. I haven't seen any hard proof that this was the case, but I'd believe it considering how nonsensical and bipolar the writing for her is.
Honestly, the movie makes more sense if you view admiral holdo and Rose tico as New order infiltrators, and Rey as a burgeoning sith considering how she fights and acts.
And given the ending of rise of skywalker, it makes so much more sense that she is a sith because she killed kylo Ren.
@@hariman7727 She is a sith. She gives in to emotion and goes to the dark side at every opportunity, but we are supposed to pretend she is somehow a new jedi. Its also how she gets so powerful so quickly. "The dark side is faster and easier, but not stronger."
If you added a scene showing she was a traitor it wouldn't improve the writing of it all because she would be a really incompetent obvious traitor.
Still sad about Finn as he had possibility but was relegated into obscurity due to bad writing. He could have had the turn around that Anakin didnt get after killing the younglings in the jedi temple.
Imagine how impressive his character would be if he committed terrible crimes and had to fight against that history through his actions in the present time. That would have been an character rather than a caricature.
Instead he helped free the space horses...
He committed atrocities with Poe.
And seemed to revel in killing his former companions.
They turned him into Jar Jar Blacks.
"Disney Star Wars has a man problem"
Did you also know water is wet?
💯💯💯
Water? Pretty sure The Drinker takes his whisky neat. =^[.]^=
The Pope celebrates Easter and bears defecate in arborially rich regions.
Don't know if the drinker knows what water is tho...
Actually, water is not wet. It makes other things wet.
Disney Star Wars has a human problem, period. There aren't any good characters, male female or alien.
Drash(the mod girl) from the Book Of Boba Fett could’ve been an interesting character but nope.
They don’t do anything with her.
Rey...and the romance with genocidal maniac toxic bad boy Kyle Ren. That is the least feminist thing I have ever heard of
@@chasehedges6775 How so? The Mods were all terrible and boring, they might have made sense on a Coruscant or similar, but having them be all clean and cgi shiny on Tatooine was weird.
@@meatpuppet5036 Simple Fix: Have all the other mods attack the girl, Boba kills them and the water monger who also attempts to betray Boba, the girl decides to work for Boba and Fennec Shand as gratitude for saving her life.
She could’ve been scared/disgusted by the Gammorean Bodyguards but later learn to trust them. That could’ve been interesting.
What do you think?
I’ll wait.
@@meatpuppet5036
The mods were terrible and boring.
I definitely agree but I feel like they could’ve been written better, especially the main biker girl.
I found an interesting contrast to General Holdo in watching Tom Hank's Captain of an escort destroyer during the Battle of the Atlantic in the movie Greyhound. He has to make the harrowing crossing mid Atlantic ocean where is teeming with U-boats and no Allied air cover. I was curious to watch Hanks' character as rookie commander(it's his first combat ship) make decisions while taking information and advice from his senior officers and sometimes enlisted men. A very good study in leadership.
Julius Caesar was famous for taking advice and criticism from friends and foes alike. It was this characteristic that actually allowed him to discover the Brilliance in his young nephew Octavian. He ultimately left his entire estate to young Octavian after his murder and Octavian as we all know went on to become Augustus Caesar who is considered by many to be the wisest and best emperor in Roman history
To put Holdo in a modern perspective, she is a Russian general giving orders, with no mission concept (just do 'this' but when it all falls apart instead of knowing what everyone else is doing and you adjust, you are calling the general asking for guidance. In the modern U.S. Army you are given orders, but you are also given a mission concept so that when things don't go to plan (and they never do go to plan) you as a platoon leader can alter what you are doing to achieve the mission. Holdo wanted blind obedience and inflexibility.
Like what I heard from, of all characters and shows, the YOUNG JUSTICE version of Batman, "No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy." That doesn't mean "give up", that means "adapt and improvise".
@@louisduarte8763 Quote comes from Moltke the Elder , Prussian general.
And those dudes were VERY by the book, so when they say "its ok to adapt the plan", you know its ok.
Fittingly this is how women in leadership positions tend to act. Its crazy how they made an unintentional critique on this.
Living in a country made so comfortable by the efforts of it’s men that it begins going through it’s historical feminization phase is truly a grotesque experience.
Yep, that always ends well.
Disney: why do you fans keep going back to the old characters
Also Disney: kills all the new characters
The sequels didn't invent this. I've seen far too many films where the entire script was deliberately constructed to build up to a scene or scenes where a male character is repeatedly humiliated by a female character or a number of female characters, and it plays like a righteous, justified abuse or a comical moment. The question "would that still be a thing if you reversed the genders" is always answered with HELL NO.
But doing it to male characters is perfectly fine.
Because feminists always wanted revenge for "centuries of patriarchal oppression of women", and constant humiliation is the best method to destroy any man because men value their freedom and self-esteem
If you remember any of their I’d love to watch them
@@theazureeyedaassassin885 just watch any Marvel phase 4. Sylvie beats up Loki. Wanda humiliates director Heyward in Wandavision and humiliated the men only of the Illuminati while letting the women put up a fight. Karli dominates her crew and is contrasted with John Walker, Boba Fett is shown up as feckless by Fennec, Shang Chi is beaten by his sister who trained just by watching. Red Guardian is comic relief while the women are the real bad asses.
Disney Star Wars, didn´t just failed his male characters.
It failed in *EVERYTHING* .
Well...the props look pretty good
I still remember "Apology accepted captain Naeda". It perfectly encapsulated how terrifying and cruel Vader could be and it only took a few seconds. Now out male villains are nothing but jokes. It makes movies so boring!
"How dare you ask for transparency in a time of crisis." Made me laugh raucously.
I can relate. 1st Marine officers platoon incorporating women into all aspects of training. In the field, where we ALL got the same training concerning avenues of approach , a fellow female officer instructed us where to place the machine gun (away from main avenue) so we asked are you sure, cause this position would be better...nope over here... RIGHT THERE...um yes mam. Well after we dug the hole and got it all set up, she changed her mind. I almost threw her in the hole.
You know, I've noticed that women tend to make the wrong decision and then go back on it a lot, and it's a passive aggressive thing that I've seen women do a lot.
It doesn't happen with the stronger and more together women I know though.
i just love how drinkers right arm is in just right spot to allign perfectly with the lower picture of a hand grabbing the bottle :D
Hearing Drinker without the drunken lilt in his voice and seeing him looking fit and handsome is like finding out Santa isn’t real.
It's the lack of indoor sunglasses...
I always thought one logical problem with a large slice of the Rebel leadership in Star Wars was that they were overwhelmingly actual royalty (Leia, Holdo, Mon Mothma, et al.) who had previously gotten into government by merit of their social standing and wealth and somehow elbowed their way into the upper echelons of the Rebellion in the same manner despite having no practical military experience themselves.
Holdo and Mon Mothma were politicians, not royalty but to be fair in Star Wars those are pretty interchangeable. The original Rebel Alliance was made up of senators, but again not a lot of military experience between them.
Disney will make anyone an Admiral these days.
You have to be black though.
Have you seen our Surgeon General?
Leia briefing the Rebel crew about the Hoth evacuation process during Empire Strikes Back is how you write a leader, female or otherwise managing a crew briefing task professionally. Key information, sense of urgency and very human.
💯💯💯💯💯. I love that scene.
And not a shred of that leadership was left in Leia once the Disney trilogy started. It wasn't just Luke & Han they destroyed, they destroyed Leia just as much too, to complete nonrecognition. So much for female empowerment. But those 3 films were written by people that know nothing of leadership, war or anything military.
Absolutely! And she was the last to leave the base, even though it was under heavy attack. Han had to come back and drag her away.
Leia was a complete train wreck in the Disney disasters.
@@crazyralph6386 Precisely! Because she never got anything useful to do at all. And when she was allowed to do anything it was only to empathize even more what a failed looser she has become. Just like the rest of the legacy characters.
Remember that in the next movie, Merry says that Holdo maneuvers are a 1-in-a-million shot. Which means that 999,999 other times, she successfully jumps to hyperspace and abandoned the entire Resistance to their fate.
Yup, Holdo's "reckoning" was her An Heroing in the dumbest, most franchise breaking way possible.
The weirdest thing about Holdo treating Poe the way she did is that it COULD have been rationally explained, but wasn't.
Consider this:
1. How did the the First order find the base?
2. How did the FO track them through hyperspace?
The obvious answer to both questions is an informant or spy in the ranks.
If Holdo is competent, she reaches the same conclusion. She also doesn't know Poe personally, so she suspects him of being the spy (or alternatively, it's a show for the spy and she actually trusts Poe because he helped take out the Dreadnought).
Poe reaches the same conclusion, and because he doesn't know Holdo, and she is weirdly hostile, he suspects her.
Both of them now have a legitimate reason for all of their actions in the film. Holdo is still a bit over the top, but at least the hostility has a proper basis.
It also gives Poe something to do (ie root out the spy), and a much better reason for Finn to slip away to contact their allies without telling anyone.
It's an easy win-win that makes everyone look good.
The people that say “she’s the general and they have to follow” have clearly not served.
At least it doesn’t seem that way, Generals of quality encourage their men when things look bleak, not belittle and berate them.
ppfffffffft okay bud.
You're right, they leave it to sergeant major to take the flak for them
Disney has a problem with creating checkbox characters as opposed to writing interesting ones.
They really do. Even The Mandalorian, awesome as it is, has this problem.
And The Book Of Boba Fett definitely suffers from that too.
Disney has a greater problem of pedophiles and grooming children. Their crappy characters are trivial in the face of Disney corporate pedophilia.
as if checkboxes weren't there before. you guys are so clueless
@@lilmovieperp3599 No they weren't, at least NOT to the extent that they were the first and most important considerations in the creation process, thus leaving character and story development (and overall quality) to suffer. And the open disdain shown toward both half of the viewing audience, and the older Hollywood creations they used to enjoy, certainly was not there before 'checkbox' culture.
Got it? Now get off this video and go watch something you like, douche.
@@lilmovieperp3599
Of course they were, and will be in the future. The problem at the moment is that this is the overwhelming majority of what we are getting from film and television.
Poe and Finn were absolutely wasted in the films. I was really pumped about Finn at the start of the film. I thought, and even said to my wife, that they were finally going to explore the Stormtroopers. What do they think about the Sith/Dark Side? First Order? Are they true believers? Or resentful of being forced into the military and forced to commit atrocities? What are they promised or told will be their reward for service? Do they care about their fellows?
I knew it was bad when Finn went from being conflicted over a fellow Trooper’s death - even though they died attacking villagers unprovoked - to exploding them with a TIE turret. He never talked about that situation again. What an abomination.
Why does Holodo even exist? We've never heard of this person before. But she's a hero of the Republic because... everyone says so? And why is she wearing a ball gown?
Because she's stunning and brave..
@@JoshuaKevinPerry and you must hate women if you say otherwise.
Because she’s a boring character that exists.
Why? Don’t know
@@chasehedges6775 *insert clip of people slipping and farting*
Laura Dern said she was a latent force user and a lesbian.
Having worked for female bosses some of which were decent I can tell you many of them feel like they need to be aggressive and bitchy from day one in order to earn some kind of respect. Those are often the same ones who bring their home lives to work and take it out on their employees when their kids screw up. This method is a huge failure in real life.
They also have an extreme obsession with following policy down to the letter. Even at the expense of actually being productive. Its as if they have no ability to think outside of the box or view the bottom line, its just route memorization with no capacity for critical thought. And if you question this they go ballistic. Never had this issue with male managers, even the soyboy ones.
@@Ergeniz The men are there to get things done, even the soyboy's you ran into. The women are there to exert power over others.
Holdo reminded me of Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.
Which would be amazing if she was the villain on purpose.
I think I have to disagree about Kylo Ren, to some extent. His emotional instability was something I liked - as we all know, anger leads to the dark side and all that. But it also showed a certain lack of resolve in him, which did place him as this kind of vacillating character. The Force Awakens did that really well - it built up the idea that he might actually be possible to turn to the light, but then he kills Han, solidifying his place as a villain. That was a great setup for his character. It could've gone many interesting routes from there, but instead they just kinda squandered him and let him continue being a vacillating emotional wreck who ended up turning good without any real incentive as far as I can remember, it's just what the movies wanted to happen.
Never watched the third movie, but I remember part of the reason I hated the second movie was because there wasn't really a villain.
Kylo just kept flip-flopping and Snoke was basically just kinda there as a stand-in until Kylo decided to be an asshole.
Then we were just left with a petulant child the rest of the movie while a beloved character kills himself in the stupidest way possible.
DARTH VADER WILL NEVER
Yeah. "She is the Admiral! She yells orders and others follow! That is it!" Is so not how it works for very simple reasons. She is talking to her Wing commander, her CAG. The battlefield commander of her fighter fleet A man who in the heat of battle needs to come up with and carry out his own sub plans in service of the larger plan and communicate that to those under his command. Not giving him the ability to do that by not letting him understand what the fucking goals of the fleet are is a recipe for disaster. And we have recently seen with Russian what happens when you do not brief your commanders and troops and essentially just give them old pre-planned notes to carry out. Not a great plan and so not how the Rebels worked, they reveled in individual initiative rather then central planning for obvious reasons.
It's even more mind-blowingly stupid when you consider the original resistance won fleet battles essentially only because their fighter wing was that much better than the Empire's. Their entire battle doctrine should logically be built around using expendable strike craft to punch above their tonnage against an enemy built for line of battle slugfests. The first order might have improved their fighters and maybe pilot training, but the ships they built and operated scream 'world war one style battleship gunnery duels in space!' which barring lore breaking nonsense like hyperspace ramming, is best fought by *strike craft* . The fact a dreadnought outright called a 'fleet killer' is destroyed by strike craft (especially such garbage ones with terrible tactics) directly demonstrated to the audience what to do. Hell, the first order figures that out and sends out their own strike craft, what was their result? Oh right, killing the admiral and mission killing the top brass of the Resistance for the cost of a few fighter craft. I'm gonna have to stop or I'd be here ranting all day.
It’s pretty obvious that whoever wrote Holdo’s character wrote her the way they see themselves: a flawless hero, above reproach, putting men in their place. But in reality all that they proved was how vain and insecure they all are
Holdo's issues all sound like she's written the way KK and a few other people wish they could treat subordinates. It's a creepy, domineering position where they berate those under them but play it off as 'tough and playful banter' but it's essentially bullying. And it would be one thing is this behavior was called out or compensated by the character getting results but there's nothing.
This us how KK and others view as the behavior of 'strong women' but for the most part....they're just jerks who use their position of power to fuck over people. And take into consideration; when guys do this or they accuse men of doing this, they call it toxic but when THEY do it, it's 'empowering'.
They're really just using this shit as an excuse to act like ripe bitches.
This is why my theory has always been that Emmeline holdo actually changed her name from brannigan at some point.
Because she leads like Zapp brannigan from Futurama.
@@hariman7727 That's an insult to Zapp who was hilariously incompetent and a parody of 50s 'space explorer' characters. He's meant to be a joke and he works as one.
Holdo is meant to be taken 100% seriously and seen as an example they wanted girls to be like.
@@SuperCosmicMutantSquid either way, you end up with an incompetent Commander who gets more people killed than they save.
When Trump is reelected (for the second time) in 2024, I want him to invalidate all the NDAs signed by Disney employees so they can speak freely.
Same with Marvel's woke heroes, they're all fucking sociopaths.
Supposedly, Holdo looks down on Poe because the bombers that died in the run on the Dreadnought were part of her squadron, and she blames him for getting them killed.
Would have been nice to have that in the movie.
That would have been a great fix. You literally need one scene of Holdo and Poe arguing about this and everything falls into place. Everything she did could have been a vain desperate attempt to keep everyone safe then have Poe inspire her to sacrifice herself. Maybe it’s Poe’s plan to make the jump but Holdo decides that Poe is a better leader and steps up.
I don't know how any of that could've been done differently, though. As an excuse, it's a piss-poor one. Those bombers were honestly one of the worst implementations of combat doctrine I've seen in sci-fi, this even being in the series where newtonian physics doesn't apply and the starfighters fly like planes because the creator wanted them to. No shielding, no speed, no agility, no decoys/jammers, no armor, no guns, nothing. One TIE could wipe the whole squadron.
i don't think it would have worked very well, given that nobody with a brain could believe you could survive in one of those junk piles long enough to get promoted out of the squadron...
7:04 You put it into words! This was another complaint I have with everything made today, but I could not find the words for it.
Great work man, love the vids. This is why I subscribe and why people love you, giving great reviews and putting it in a way to best describe what these "movies" make me feel and why.
Best wishes.
5:44 I do absolutely agree that they did Finn dirty, but we have to remember he deserted after his first-ever actual mission. He never actually saw all that much action as a stormtrooper. The worst he experienced was that one squad mate dying in his arms; which is pretty bad, but nothing compared to what someone like maybe captain Phasma would've been through.
I had a few horrible Officers/NOCs I served under in the Army, but NONE of them were Holdo level incompetent. Basic military doctrine would have never even allowed Holdo to progress that far (now that I think about it, that was the OLD Army, with "Amy and her two Moms" and the modern Army...it COULD happen) and allow her to poison the entire Resistance. The simple fact is Disney had no military advisors (or ignored them utterly) and any men involved had no power in the decision making process (or were also utterly ignored) thus enabling the complete dumpster fire we ended up with in those movies.
As for the GOOD leaders I served with, men like 1SG Carpenter taught me everything I know about proper leadership, Capt. Foster was a guy every one of us would follow into any firefight, and Sgt. Arey was a goof, but a damn good squad leader and Sniper Instructor. With the Resistance being outmanned and outgunned, they should have had the strongest leaders to compensate, men and women who thought outside the box, and used guerrilla tactics masterfully to whittle away at the juggernaut facing them. A far better plot idea would have been having Holdo be a First Order plant, sent in to wreck morale and betray the Resistance, but who changes sides like Finn after meeting and working with Leia and the others. Have Finn recognize her, and only after promising to never reveal her true origins, Holdo evacuates everyone and rams the enemy, going out in a blaze of glory.
I have to be honest: Star Wars just doesn’t feel like Star Wars anymore. It all feels thrown together and nothing makes sense.
Most franchises don't feel like themselves anymore.
@@grandmufftwerkin9037 ✅💯
It's because previously the writers and producers started with envisioning their fantasy universe then identified the struggles then developed the characters and plot... most people were happy with traditional good verses evil where the hero saves the beautiful lady.
*HOWEVER today* the writers and producers start with WOKE agendas then add LGBTQ characters then try creating struggles supporting WOKE and LGBTQ with finally adding sprinkles of plot and background characters. This results with most people unhappy because most men are portrayed as either evil or weak, the movie or television series is literally lecturing to the audience instead of providing a story and has unrealistic action scenes such as a normal 130lb female winning physical fights against much stronger men.
@@NTJedi 💯💯💯💯💯.
I miss stories where good prevailed and evil was vanquished.
Yes, sometimes the villlains won(Revenge Of The Sith), but they were defeated and good triumphed in the end(Return Of The Jedi/Mandalorian Season 2).
That’s awesome, traditional storytelling.✅✅💯💯💯💯
More Baggage Claim on RUclips! Her videos are so well-done. I know they take a lot of work and preparation, but they're really good.
"An intimidating bad guy is one who's cold and methodical and ruthelss"
This is exactly why the best villain scene in every Star Wars product in the last 20 years is Darth Vader cutting through the defending soldiers in the dark corridor at the end of Rogue One.
The whole "just follow orders" line was always funny to me. Yes you need trust and obedience in a military to get anything done. Time lost answering and asking questions could mean life or death in a battle. That said they are he "Rebels" in this, not a military. The whole point is they are fighting against the Tyrannical Empire/First Order.
To say Poe should of just blindly followed orders because Holdo said so is beyond tone deaf.
They are a military but that isn't a an excuse to "just follow orders" and Holdo's apparent inaction justifies questioning what she is trying to do.
Agreed. One small issue. It's "tone-deaf" not "tone-death." Just wanted to let you know so you can fix it so that the idiots don't go all like "Oh, minor spelling mistake means that I'm right and that Admiral Holdo was a great leader, huh huh huh!"
@@KingKayro87 hmm thanks and yeah. A bit more of a grammar mistake than spelling I think. Though it was miss spelled and spell check suggested the wrong word I guess.
in the original the droids were the comic relief so the story could actually happen with the real characters. They made Finn the droid.
And they gave the soccer ball better screen time by the end of the trilogy.
At least C3P0 got treated like a god in his 3rd film.
The teaser trailer for The Force Awakens was the first time I felt uneasy and realized it was nothing more than jangling keys. I was genuinely interested in Finn as a character, whether he was good or evil, but it all amounted to crap. Surely a wasted opportunity to continue one of my favorite franchises.
The idea that what a leader is is simply someone that tells people what to do and people listen and follow what they say is the most childish understanding of what is leadership. It's so much more, it is about inspiring, guiding, understanding and trusting your subordinates. The irony when Holdo is treated as the competent female leader and Poe as the incompetent rash hotshot man that's messing everything up. But they're so incompetent they can't even get that right, because based on their objective actions Poe is justified in his actions as Holdo is doing pretty much nothing one would expect of an even barely competent leader.
It's ironic because feminists hate it when you say this, but Holdo is by definition bossy not a boss/leader. She is irrational, emotional, doesn't listen to her subordinates and simply gets angry at them and expects blind followers or they are a problem.
Holdo's entire arc is to basically tell you to "always listen and believe women." They were so caught up in the moral that they failed to make the story that tells that moral make sense.
@@DeadFishFactory That's the worst part, I can understand that it's pretty much politically motivated propaganda, but at least make sure it's consistent with what you're showing. They literally completely control the story arc and they still can't manipulate it to accurately portray the message they want to. How incompetent can you be?
There are two words to describe what Disney has done to Star Wars: Cultural Vandalism. George Lucas must be heartbroken seeing how KK and her acolytes have handled his wonderful universe.
Yeah, so heartbroken wiping his tears with his money. He sold it.
@@beidoll right, 'cause he so needed the money...
@@Anuduin Precisely. Which means he sold it because he wanted to, not because he needed to.
I saw part of an interview about that. He said that he felt like he was selling his children to slavers when he found out what Disney had done with Star Wars.
@@7slavok and that's about as clear of a description as to what happened.
One missed opportunity with Finn was having his arc happen gradually over all three films, one more like Trooper-Spy-Jedi. Also, Kylo's rage should've been kept bottled until at least the end of the middle chapter, if not the third.
Really enjoyed the live stream with Baggage Claim. Would not mind seeing you two do another.
The comment about the argument really hit on an important point for me. Shorthand is an important time saving writing tool that helps convey an idea to the audience with a minimal waste of time.
Current woke culture has painted these shorthands as racist, sexist, etc… throwing them out of the window. Then they wonder why they can’t write clean, concise stories.
I don't understand how using shorthand in a story would be seen as discriminatory.
I like how it looks like Drinker has an Arnold Schwarzenegger arm with a giant bottle of JD clutched in his fist in this video. 😄
Kathleen Kennedy… the death of Star Wars
Jon Favereau and Dave Filoni: Can we join too.
George Lucas: What have they done to my creation?
Walt Disney: 😔😔😔😔😔😔😔😔
Jar Jar Abrams, Ruin Johnson, and Bob Iger
@@jacobsladder74 💯💯💯💯💯
@@jacobsladder74 I agree but she was behind the decisions so fuck her 😅 but yeh I’m fully behind Ruin Johnson etc hahaha
"If you want a woman to make you a Millionaire, first you must be a Billionaire"
The problem is that the production team and writers don’t have a theory of mind.
Most of them grew up in Hollyweird, and have absolutely ZERO experience in the real world or know how human interpersonal relationships work.
Throughout the three films Finn does not do a single thing to affect the main plot in any way.
After all their posturing and virtue-signalling he was just the 'token black guy', and I think John Boyega himself is definitely aware of this.
Don't like to point to race as a reason for Finns misuse but It seemed that they had a character arc for him. That arc wouldn't play in China, because of race, so they did nothing with him. The whole thing with the posters in just confirmed it to me.
Lando is popular in china
@@macrosense That's a good point, maybe it is just Hollywood's perception of how it would play in China. It blows me away how they shrunk him on the poster in China and pretty much got away with it. The story got no traction.
@@macrosense Only because he's in a support role, he knows his place and starts out by betraying the heroes.
honestly i don't think it was race per se that ruined Finn so much as Rian Johnson being an incompetent hack who had no idea what to do with him, leading to his character being wasted and then ruined in a pointless side plot that the movie would have been so much better without in the first place.
Look what they did for Bill Burr’s character in The Mandalorian. An actual interesting scene for a former Imperial soldier. Great setup for his motives. That’s what I was hoping for Finn.
Yeah interstiing that both Boyega and Burr lament just following orders, then minutes later theyre slaughtering dozens of their former comrades. Mandalorian had a lot ofthe same problems
Mildly: "Apology accepted, Captain Needa"
CHILLS
I’m so happy that more people are finally picking this up and calling it out. This woke agenda certainly is not about equality
Modern movies are written by children, or adults that are so immature and clueless they are eternally in HS. Hint to Hollywood... people grow up, High School is far behind and I can't even remember the kids from HS ... I remember, at the most, 2 names. Write adult characters, not children having tantrums.
idk I’m 25 but I thought kids in hs were pretty mature when I was there. Nobody was gender bending and was still safe to hit on women. Those days are long gone lol
I love the channel Drinker, I really like your back and forth with this youtuber (Baggage Claim). I think that she had a great insight and knows the material, so overall she adds to an already great show.
Two points:
1) Leia and Holdo were clearly not the only people in the know on this evacuation plan, at minimum the navigator/pilot on the Radus knew their destination and that they only needed to get within a certain distance of Crait. Odds are that the deck crew in the shuttle bay were also told that they needed to have the "cloaked" shuttles ready to go by a specific time. So why not tell Po the plan at this point?
2) What happens if Holdo gets taken out of action? The Resistance is in an active combat situation, things happen, was the ENTIRE bridge crew going to step up as commander before Po? If Holdo isn't there to beat junior officers (let alone concerned senior ones) into the deck, this whole evacuation plan to the surface of Crait evaporates.
every "female lead" character is perfect/near perfect.. every male is weak, flawed, and totally or near totally reliant on female characters to save their ass...
thats the new Star Wars..
Not just Star Wars. The new everything.
When I badmouth the last trilogy, I just ask ‘what was *character*’s arc?’
Nobody in the ST had any development or arc whatsoever.
Not only no character arc, no story map. It's like the filmmakers had no idea each movie was part of a trilogy. The Last Jedi in particular wrapped up all the storylines and left nowhere for the third film to go. Subverting not only expectations, but the trilogy itself.
In terms of arcs…
Po should’ve learned to be a leader and be less impulsive.
Finn should’ve become a Jedi apprentice trained by Rey.
Rey, should’ve struggled with the impulse to use the dark side of the force. Learning from a grey Jedi about better balance.
It could’ve been something but, instead it was just noise and visual spectacle.
@@AHersheyHere 💯💯💯✅✅✅✅💯💯💯✅✅✅👍
@@AHersheyHere don’t forget about how Snoke had 0 character period because Rian Johnson stunningly subverted all our expectations by killing him off in the second movie of the trilogy that he had only briefly appeared in as a hologram up to that point, a point at which we also knew absolutely nothing about him. Thanks Rian, I really appreciate your brilliant and subversive ideas.
Absolutely, which is why in Lost, Ben a 5 foot nothing feeble guy, was a terrifying enemy.
5:53 Wheatley was a more potent character in Portal 2 than Fin was throughout the mess of "The Last Jedi."
7:50 In fairness, Lucas Films haven't cared about making intemidating bad guys since Count Dooku.
And judging by the corny dialogue, they would have screwed him over too, had Christopher Lee not proven to be a absolute boss and carried the character on his back.
Sad that it took making 3 really bad movies to get fans to finally appreciate the prequel trilogy.
Appreciate what? How it cures insomnia?
not sure 'appreciate' is the word.... "good idea gone completely off the rails" has kind of always been the general feeling towards those movies
Oh my gosh. I need to watch this video!
[Edit]: Oh damn. This woman is wonderful. I need to go watch these streams! Right now!
Same here.
The fact we are revisiting this grave so much is testament to how severe the loss is. We are not getting this one back, time to find a new dream and let it go. We have the technology to launch our own stories, this is the call to adventure.
Ahh baggage claim, stumbled upon your channel months ago on the megan drama, Top content!