I agree with Beard concerning the minimal use of Space Marines in the series. For a layman watching the series, the impact and presence of a single Marine needs to be established through an introduction of relatable human characters and laying down the foundation of what “grimdark” entails.
I don't. And I keep hearing this take. Starwars started with Jedi. Halo just gives us master chief. The universe is why we're here. It's what hooked us. Give the audience credit. I will say that I LOVE GAUNTS GHOSTS. So I'd be happy with that
@@BloodBuffalo yea, space marines being completely insane is what hooked us, i agree with you. however at the same time youre an idiot, the only way for space marines to be special is to make them special.
The way to do a space marine show is to follow a Deathwatch kill team in an original story. It crosses over with Inquisition and various xenos factions for world building, and it has actual drama with the clash of personalities between the different chapters involved.
Agree. If they do space marines, they should make them Deathwatch. There's a reason the FFG RPGs used Deathwatch as the default space marine chapter, it offers the most variety in storytelling.
The Deathwatch series by Steve Parker would be an AWESOME blueprint for this idea even if they end up with different kill team members. A cold open episode infiltrating an ork ship. One season unraveling a genestealer cult plot. One season battling against the Tau. Showing the human element as they have to work with local forces or having a perspective from the people they're "saving." You definitely have an awesome idea there.
Episode 1 opens with big action. A single astartes survives a [tyranid] threat that claims one or more of his brothers. He deals with the emotional fall out while being pulled into meetings with various figures of authority (lore dump). The episode closes with him being seconded to the Deathwatch and sent off by his chapter. Episode 2 we arrive, undertake conditioning, take the oath, then meet (and spar/clash with) the team
It's going to be Eisenhorn. Which is the right move. It's been hinted at a lot over the past few years. There are pictures of him with the books and everything. Also incredibly excited for Cavil to be leading this. He's definitely the right pick.
Start small. The Inquisition series of novels are perfect for exploring the universe of 40k. The first time you see a Space Marine in the Eisenhorn novels is an Emperor's Children legionarie in the halfway point of the first book. It's absolutely terrifying to behold. Only at the final 20 pages of Xenos do you get a squad of Deathwatch marines in action.
I really like the idea of delaying the Space Marines appearance, it makes me smile and reminds me of a couple things. Seeing them could feel neat if it was rare in the show, like seeing Jedi after order 66. Also it reminds me of the newest concept for a Spawn movie, keeping Spawn in the shadows and rarely seen like he's jaws.
Henry Cavill as Commissar Ciaphas Cain. He would be perfect in the role. Cain is human and a fun, relatable character for the wider audience outside of the hobby. And He is shipped around the galaxy on assignment where he encounters, fights again or along side every possible faction.
You know I've been thinking a lot about this recently. Cain is undeniably a great character - however, so much of his relatability comes from the way the narrative is framed, basically it's him commenting on his actions. There's a touchstone principle in visual storytelling "Show, don't tell!" and the Caiphas Cain stories rely on telling not showing. If you get rid of this meta commentary, the 'telling' portion, then what is left is just another super capable hero being heroic and modest ... except with Baldrick in tow. Honestly I think it'd need a serious injection of comedy and a fair degree of fourth wall breaking meta humour just for it to work, but then you are running the risk of it's becoming too much like a Marvel movie - i.e. so tongue in cheek flippant and meta that it damages your immersion.
You'd need someone with a very dry, subdued sense of humour, and I'm not sure if that is Henry. But, in general, a Cain show/film would certainly be a very good way to counterweigh/deconstruct the grimdark at a later stage.
@@Quotheraving Funnily enough, I had been thinking of this as well, lately. All of the Cain books are told from the perspective of a guy who, according to Inquisitor Vale, has a habit of over inflating certain aspects of himself while downplaying others; a practice in hyperbole. If a show is made, I agree, it'd have to be a commentary show similar manner of a Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Deadpool, How I Met Your Mother, etc.
I'm tellin' ya, Eisenhorn. At it's core, that story is a "police procedural", which is a well-known and enjoyed genre. It has awesome characters, and it delivers Astartes (traitor or otherwise) very slowly. Gaunt's Ghosts could work too, as war stories are familiar territory as well, but that would need a bit more work because of the sheer number of people involved in Guard warfare. I also believe that Mr. Cavill is actually the Emperor of Mankind and is trying to prepare us for what is to come. Someone buy him some parenting books, ASAP.
For me, Eisenhorn is the clear and obvious choice for a TV series. It focuses on humans which makes it far more relatable and things like space marines don’t feature very often. But we also hear about other things and even get to see the occasional Aeldari, giving us a taste of different factions from across the lore. It’s also a detective series in a way which makes it very accessible.
The best thing they could do is making a Gaunts Ghosts tvseries. Its by far the best way to get non nerds to watch, the premise is easy, its just band of brothers in space, making it easy to lure people in to the 40k universe, and using the Gaunt/Milo relationship is the perfect way to explain the world to the viewer
The show needs to appeal to general audiences. It needs something for everyone. Gaunt's Ghosts is a war story and war movies/shows tend not to do great unless it's about your great grandpappy in WW2 and Spielberg is directing it. Gaunt's Ghosts are good novels but for budget and quality reasons would make an unsuccessful show.
I'm torn. I really, REALLY think Eisenhorn is the very best possible starting point. It's got everything but it's NOT a war series. It's something my wife would really enjoy, unlike the nagging it would take to get her to watch Band of Brothers in Space.
Surely it needs to be eisenhorn, it’s just so good! The bequin series seems made for the screen (but throws too many lore curve balls for them to jump straight into it).
In the meantime I would just love to see Cavil host a docu-series about the hobby. Exploring, the history, the local scene in the UK, casual gaming clubs and the impact on social and mental health, the competative scene and the international embrace. A 45min- hour episode on each topic would be the best.
How about a rogue trader style to show like Serenity? Lots of options for different characters (human and xeno) as well as different worlds to explore.
Yeah and the crpg game is a great example of how building a story around a Rogue trader can provide justification for a really diverse group of characters from Astropaths to Xenos. That said Firefly was basically an ensemble cast show about low-lives, renegades and misfits, as Joss Whedon said the kind of people that the starship enterprise would fly right past. Rogue Traders on the other hand are nobility.. They are embroiled in family politics, system wide intrigue all while trying not to upset the religious authorities, a very different dynamic! Like they said it's be closer to Game of Thrones in space.
I’m pretty confident if nothing else they will nail the aesthetic, I imagine a production team would KILL to work on a product with this much established models and artwork. They can focus more on the story and characters when cavill can point to something and just say make it look like this.
So, my DREAM show, is David Tennent as a rogue trader. He did a fantastic job voicing the Warhammer Adventure series, which... honestly if you want a good look at what this show could be, take a look at that book series and just... age it up to be more adult, (which wouldn't be that hard, Warhammer Adventures is far from the least grimdark 40k novel i've read). But yes I would say an inquisitor, a guardsmen, or maybe some mix... and on another note, if we are doing guard, have Cavil play a Catachan. maybe do a Last Chancer penal legion type show with a bunch of different guard dudes fighting the horrors of the galaxy, which then leads into MOAR. Lots you could do, Space Marines, and the Horus Heresy, are the most wrong choices out of all of them.
He needs to play an Inquisitor with a band of Inquisitorial Henchman with their own ship. Travelling the Universe investigating Cults, Xenos and Chaos on Hive planets, jungle planets, Agri-planets etc etc. Then they would have the opportunity to focus on different Henchman each episode as well as plenty of action.
There's 2 series that should flagship the 40k entrance, this is also based on the most popular books. Eisenhorn and Gaunts ghosts. For those that have read Eisenhorn it has chaos space marines and normal space marines, they aren't in it long but they are there. I feel Eisenhorn is an easy "do this" because its very down to earth and a better entrance. Where gaunts ghosts give you more "In the trenches" kind of feel, they are the 2 you should start with.
Guant's Ghost was my landing point into the lore and story of 40K. Back when I was a weee nipper and it made me want to play 40K back at the beginning of 3rd edition. It's a perfect jumping on point.
Eisenhorn - Xenos. Caville fits the description of young Eisenhorn perfectly. Self-contained series but with an overarching character arc and proper cliff hanger, which Gaunt's Ghosts lacks. The first space marine we see is a chaos marine, who is appropriately terrifying, with a space marine vs chaos marine fight in the final episode. Andy Serkis can voice Cherubael. Ticks all the boxes.
If Henry goes for an original plot: arbites vs genestealer cult. Show a hive city, arbites putting down random disturbances, uncover something more sinister, has room for escalation, and most of the GSC you could do with makeup, barring big scenes. Room to escalate further if the main arbites is picked up by an inquisitor after surviving an uprising and a planet that summons a Tyranid tendril to the season 1 planet.
Final moment of the series, the Space Marine (Dave Bautista) having just saved the day, is asked "who are you", he slowly turns to camera, removes his helmet and says "I am Alpharius". Cut to credits.
Needs to be a Ciaphas Cain series. He's Suave Capt. Blackadder. Hes got Jurgen. 'For the Emperor' is the perfect intro to xenos and humans. TAU, KROOT, GSC. Heck you could write in Votann. Perlia perfect as a menacing Ork story
I was thinking, what if you made him a old space marine dreadnought telling stories of the past before he became a dreadnought. You can have him convey emotion at glory in combat, the saddness of losing that freedom, show how through his time in his tomb how he grew more emotions that would make him more human or something like that
OOF, imagine it being a narrated life story, only revealed in the last episode that he's now entombed. Like Matrix-esque! That would be some heavy stuff!
If you're going to do a Space Marine story, do it about Gabirel Angelos from Dawn of War. Perfect self contained story that anyone could grip, that involves all the different main factions, the betrayals, the twists.
Could tell the heresy story from the perspective of the remembrances. Would be a great way to capture short stories in the form of episodes that all link together in the end
As someone returning to the IP after many years and just properly getting into it now I think it is important to build up the myth of the space marines before they appear. Going in with imperial guard means that the IP and almost the hopelessness of the universe can be built and the foundations properly laid. I think if you jump straight in with the space marines who from my knowledge so far are the "angels" of the imperium then you cant properly show how bad it is to be in the universe because the space marines arent there. Give a teaser to them in the first episode. Maybe a sequence of an old guardsman who has seen the space marines appearing and fighting or something and then build the legend from that. Make them appear later on when all seems lost.
Making Dan Abnetts Salvations Reach into a TV series or film would be a good introduction to the factions in 40k. It is mostly about the guard (Gaunts Ghosts FTW) and introduces space marines as the super soldiers they are. It shows the archenemy heretics, some xenos and the history of 40k.
Love the podcasts and all your content in general, i got into collecting 40k at the start of 10th currently playing Necrons and Tyranids. Love having you guys in the background as i build and paint!
Good timing! Needed something new to listen to in gym! Looking forward to this one. Edit: I have many concerns about a 40K tv show haha Edit 2: Oh god the Ultramarines film -- the horror haha
Eisenhorn would be a recognizable and compelling character and would give you access to both CSM and Loyalist Marines called in. Also an inquisitor would give you access to ordinary people... The other character he could be would be a commisar
Eisenhorn contains all the core grim dark elements that makes 40K great and introduces the uniqueness of the universe succinctly. The story has great twists and turns, strong characters and a great romance side plot. There are game of thrones elements with the power wielded by inquisitors and their rivalries. And if done right would be horrifying, action packed, with loads of mystery and intrigue and GOT level addictive all at the same time.
I always wanted the Second War of Armageddon to be the basis of a Warhammer 40000 movie(s)…based around Yarrick and with Dante jumping in to save the day…see 2nd Edition booklet short story of the war… But, acknowledging the ‘story’ / timeline has moved on sadly I would prefer a series to be more grimdark like Astartes and I think it needs an Inquisitor level character to show off the universe… Or they could have seasons based on characters in each faction! That’s a lot of seasons… 😅 So long as Henry and the guy who did Astartes is in the creative room we’ll be ‘ok’… I agree with Beard on when Space Marines appear!
Talking of Abnett, his use of Space Marines in the Gaunt’s Ghosts book Salvations Reach is spot on. The regiment gets reinforced with 3 space marines (they’re lucky to get 3) who absolutely annihilate the enemy. Pitch perfect way to show how they compare to regular humans
In order to make a space marine programme do it with costumes. Make a huge costume and get the mountain play every marine, then just cgi a new (better) face when their helmets are off. And a diffenet voice actor for each Done
The best basis of the show imo: Have an aged up cavill walking through a military school, soldiers saluting him, praising him, etc. All the way to the sanctuary of his room. Looking dishevelled and worn, he decides to set the record straight and sits down to his journal And that's when the 3-4 episode arcs of the adventures of caiphus cain begin!
Many, many good points were discussed in this episode: I completely agree that it would be a very bad decision to begin a 40K program with Marines or The Heresy - too niche and inaccessible, until the setting has been substantially fleshed and explained to the wider audience; but that WHEN they are shown, it must be impactful and harrowing. IMO, you begin with life in a Hivecity, starting from the deepest gutter: gang-war. You then introduce the lowest, true Imperial authority in the guise of Arbites: sweeping up the survivors of a turf-war and shipping them out to properly direct the former gangers' aggression in a way that is useful to the Imperium - conscripts in a Guard army of crew of a Naval vessel. And then all the former gangers are killed in combat! Pathos, but now an inkling of the grim brutality of the setting has been made. From this introduction, you focus properly upon a platoon or company in some Guard regiment and follow them on a portion of a campaign, and the talk between the members expands upon and explains what was witnessed (not directly, but abstractly in vague ways that would be understood by fellow Guards-persons) in the first season by the members telling their stories. MAYBE a demi-squad of Astartes are seen, distantly, in some supporting action to highlight their utter efficient brutality in comparison to Guard assets and capabilities. And then, more and More and MORE of the setting. Again, just my humble opinion about how to get the grimdark ball rolling.
Thank you for your podcast. I just recently saw this and it is very entertaining (and especially this episode) and super interesting. I know a bit about the lore, but by far not as much as you three do, so I enjoyed hearing your opinions. Personally I think for the wider audience it is the best to start small, with the normal humans. There are just whispers about the dark terrors. Maybe a chaos cult is rising and it gets more and more horror-like and in the end demons appears. And then, when all hope is lost the Angel themselves are saving the day (or the most of it?). Very interesting, but not as "effective" would be a series like black mirror with different perspectives.
Henry did an interview for Empire magazine in 2021, and he said ( direct quote) when asked about playing Eisenhorn "I mean, ok don't know about Eisenhorn necessarily, when you've got Valdor and the Primarchs out there. It seems a shame to be a mere Inquisitor. But I would absolutely leap at that opportunity - it's something I'd be very, very excited to do". We all know he's a massive Custodes fan, so something along those lines?
I remember an interview with Abnett where he says that space marines are, in some ways, more human than we are. Astartes feel their obligations and the emotions they are tied to more acutely than us baseline humans, who get used to compromising and negotiating our way through life besides suppressing our true feelings/selves. This is what makes them so terrifying and explains why so many turn to heresy when they discover the truth behind imperial society.
A pitch, picture this: two unknown middleaged men tabling their respective 40K armies, ready to play a match. Camera zooms into the miniatures as the last deployment is being placed and the show becomes a live action reenactment of what is happening on the tabletop gamewise with dialogues keying the viewer in on the context of the battle and the greater war it belongs to. Introduce key characters to provide a background which can, after a first series of episodes like this, later be exploited in self-centered spinoffs explaining different parts of 40k lore.
Here's an idea: a series of 1-hour episodes that follow a new recruit in the Astra Militarum. It follows them through their life on the battlefield before their ultimate demise at the climax of the finale. It lasts 15 episodes
Orks would probably need some sort of "Orks vs Orks" episode at first, establish the culture and have it be a mix of comedy and violence. Then you introduce them against human with all their flashiness and have it really contrast with the situation from the human's POV.
I just read the first Uriel Ventris book "Nightbringer" and I have to say that it would probably adapt pretty well into a Tv-Series. It balances Space Marine POV with Human POV where Uriel don't take over but rather serves as a more supporting character for the most part. Several normal humans make up the rest of the cast and get almost equal screentime. The plot (no spoilers) is not too complex and constrained to one or two planets and places. I would also love to see Cavill as Uriel Ventris.
Really enjoyed this podcast episode! I think we can have alot of confidence that with Henry being in the role of Executive Producer he will be heavily involved in alot of the creative and management decisions to guide a Warhammer media production into life. But he has a mammoth task ahead of him no doubt
Actually loved this podcast gents, you need to carry on this conversation. 😂 I’d like to see a film following an Inquisitor of ordo-Xenos, that way you could bring in Astartes gradually with the DeathWatch and build on chapter lore.
Richards boylens cadian vs the tyranids live action short feel like a good way to intro astartes. We hear the voice. Fans that know will freak out. Newbies will get the sense of hope and maybe fear.
Cooking with Swarmlord. Come along with Swarmlord as it shows you how to prepare, portion then absorb biomass from a variety of human cultures. You too can attain Michelin star perfection with its top tips.
The moment in the second or third gaunts ghosts book when they met that one chaos space marine in the forge was amazing. hammered home the idea that the space marine are a terrible thing to behold and encounter
The Heresy is impactful because like The Hobbit or the Star Wars prequels, you know where everything goes. You see things coming together. I don't think it would would as an entry point. The best way to introduce the idea of it would be through a Dark Imperium series focusing on Guilliman. Make that the epic scale blockbuster series that comes after the smaller, human-focused show. That way you can have the introduction of space marines or Guilliman as the big climax of the first show, which then spins off. And because it focuses on Guillman, you can have flashbacks to the Heresy where it's appropriate.
It's important to remember that 40K is fundamentally satire and actually quite comical a lot of the time. I'm thinking a Ciaphas Cain, AKA Blackadder in space, type thing. It will likely be aimed at a 13-15 year old target audience. Personally speaking, I'd like to see the horror elements of the setting, but I expect to see a watered down, 40K cheesy comedy. Obviously I hope not, but that's what I expect That said, the Helsreach animation has 2 million views on this platform and doing a live action version could be outstanding!
My personal take on this is that one of the single best entries into the Warhammer 40K universe for the mainstream would be to focus on the Scholum Progenium. This is where you can also catch that young adult audience, and then really highlight the horror, the pragmatism, the inhumanity of both the imperium, and the galaxy in which it exists. In the Scholam students are indoctrinated in all aspects of the imperial creed. This is where all, and I do mean, all of the various institutions of the imperium can be seen, or not seen, depending upon who they are. It would allow the introducing of the politics of the imperium, it would allow us to introduce different kinds and types of human beings from all across the species. It would be the perfect way to show, and not tell, by simply showing what it is the students go through as they become the tools of war for the imperium of man.. and what is taken away from them. Also, if we were to consider the idea of a grand scale, or multi series/multiple franchise movie which quite frankly it would have to be to even have a hope to capture a story that has a timeline that goes back 65 million years to the Wars in Heaven… but being able to follow the journey of children that we can empathize and possibly relate to, as they become the adults that that would be absolutely horrifying us, in a universe we couldn’t comprehend? Kino Shit. It would even allow to have reoccurring characters that could be unseen or unknown to future casts of characters but the audiences established knowledge of them and who they are would crate a particular context for the stories being told. To sum it all up, I think it would be a mistake to try and introduce Warhammer through a trans human lens from the word go. It would even be a mistake to try and introduce it in from the Horus Heresy. Ideally, if you could, you would want to start from the unification wars to set up the heart and souls of the story, which, in this case would be humanity and the emperor. But if you really wanted the scales of power, and the spectrum of horror both cosmos and human as well as the desperation to truly get across, I don’t think you could do it any better than by starting with what happens to the orphans. And it would make the introduction of a Space Marine that much more necessarily impactful.
I would love to see Cavill play Castellan Crowe, and lead the gray knights. I mean look at the mini. It even looks like him. Not to mention there’s so much backstory to the blade of Antwyr that we haven’t yet heard.
I'm putting my money on eisenhorn. It has everything. Starts off with some pretty gritty sci-fi action. Later in the book/series of books multiple characters are introduced. For example. Rogue traders including the ship, relations between him and bequin, chaos cults, a freaking titan eventually. Lots of interactions between him and the dark side of the inquisition. Yer 100% I got a tenner on Eisenhorn 👍
The Helsreach animation on RUclips portrayed the orks really well. It embraced their brutality and predisposition for violence while leaving out all the soccer hooligan shenanigans.
I would love to see a show about an aspriant going into training and through the whole Space Marine making process. Start off as human and transform beyond that and evolve as time goes on.
Totally agree, basing the series on Space Marines would be a disaster. They are simply not accessible, they are too hard to understand and trying to make them human would undermine their real role in the 40k universe. Gaunt's Ghosts or Eisenhorne would be the way to go. Real people trying to survive and protect humanity in a universe of monsters. The recently produced books that followed a noir style of enforcers investigating crimes in hive cities were really good also, but more focussed on the bureaucracy/hierarchy of the Imperium, but still very human stories with insight into the 40k world from the perspective of hive dwellers.
Heresy is absolutely built for Game of Thrones in space as a series style. You can focus in on the primarchs and key marines and make it work wonders. Just imagine the Drop Site Massacre as the Red Wedding equivalent!
An imperial navy officer may be a good candidate for main character shadow point book comes to mind as a very interesting way of getting around enough to keep things interesting
I have to say, I think the perfect setting for a tv show would be a Rogue Trader and his/her/their entourage. A rogue trader can have space marines assigned to their ship from a successor chapter. there is all kinds of work arounds that don't fall into the issues of say a radical vs. puritan inquisitor. If you want one main star, you could go with an Officio Assassinorum operative with missions that are one episode and others that involve a whole season.
I think they should do the Lord of the Rings Fellowship approach with the Heresy. Have an amazing larger than life spectacle opening of the siege of Terra with Titans, thousands of Marines fighting and culminate to the final confrontation between Horus and The Emperor. All the while being Narrated by some guy with an epic voice and maybe its even a scribe recounting the story as they tend to the golden thrown. I'm thinking Ralph Ineson, that guy has a voice built for 40k. Then lead into a more relatable character or group like a guardsman. They definitely need to have Space Marines but as these monolithic characters that have a lot of mystery behind them. That was the mistake of the Halo show with having master chief as the main character, it destroyed the mystery and power behind the character. They're the Emperors angels and should be always viewed through the eyes of the every day men and women.
Good point on the Orks. I think as Lawrence says Space Marine 1 executed them pretty well. I think a little more like this and also the Dawn of War 2 trailer where the Orks are just cutting up and pulling the arms off of injured Marines. Kind of like Lord of the Rings where the Orcs and Uruks are brutal and revel in violence but not goofy like in tabletop 40K. The odd bit of humour may work but probably limited. Eldar would be cool as a faction that is mysterious and helps out now and again, and also easier to film and execute. I would love to see Custodes somehow in there, maybe the Aquilon shield who show up to protect individuals who will help the imperium in the future! So much scope it’s hard to filter it down. But hope it does well and then there’s endless potential for future seasons and spin offs.
Now imagine the chapter in the scene Beard described is the Iron Hands. I think they would be a good introduction to the SM because they are loyal but not "good guys" in the way Salamanders, Space Wolves or Ultramarines are. It would underline the grim dark aspect and also serve to build up the introduction of chaos marines because it would make you think "if those are the loyal marines, just how bad are the traitors gonna be?".
We know Cavill is a Custodes fan, and we also know that they will probably spend the first 30 min (hopefully in a 2 hour premiere) covering the heresy (pulling from the end and the death part 2) to get non 40k people up to speed. But in that flashback we see Cavill as Constatin Valdor before he leaves and in 40k turns into the Yellow King. Allows Cavill to focus on exec producing until the series gets to the point where Valdor returns in lore.
Gaunt's Ghosts/Cain style is the way to go, The big problem with an Inquisitor focused show, as that the don't interact as much with what makes 40k, 40K. If the inquisitor is stuck on a battlefield trying to figure out how to take down a Dreadblade...he/she done screwed up somewhere. A story centered on a small Astra Militarum unit has the benefit of not only being relatable, they can dip their toe in everything. They can be roped into an Inquisitorial retinue, they can see a Titan in the distance, they can run into a Chaos Psycher, they can be saved at the last minute by some Marines Malevolent that bolters one of their own on the way out for kicks, they can be hunted by Drukari, screwed over by the Administratum, etc.
Before it was announced that Henry Canvill was making a 40k show, he was asked if there was a 40k movie/show what who he'd wanna play, he said he couldn't chose, because as soon as he'd pick a certain space marine, then he'd be locked to that and couldn't be Valdor/imperial guard character or what ever, so I'd say there's a good chance he's NOT gonna be in the first series. Also IF they'd make a Horus Heresy series, I don't think you'd start with that, that's rather if they'd make a 'cinematic universe' kinda thing, many years (maybe 10) down the line, but I agree, maybe not start on space marines.
Honestly I would love if the first space marine we see is a Chaos Marine. Just imagine the squad of protagonists running for their lives through a building whilst a Chaos Marine is barging through walls and they have no hope of stopping them
I agree with Beard concerning the minimal use of Space Marines in the series. For a layman watching the series, the impact and presence of a single Marine needs to be established through an introduction of relatable human characters and laying down the foundation of what “grimdark” entails.
i hope someone important see's what has been said here today, there is no other way. this is it .
I don't. And I keep hearing this take. Starwars started with Jedi. Halo just gives us master chief. The universe is why we're here. It's what hooked us. Give the audience credit. I will say that I LOVE GAUNTS GHOSTS. So I'd be happy with that
@@BloodBuffalo yea, space marines being completely insane is what hooked us, i agree with you. however at the same time youre an idiot, the only way for space marines to be special is to make them special.
The way to do a space marine show is to follow a Deathwatch kill team in an original story. It crosses over with Inquisition and various xenos factions for world building, and it has actual drama with the clash of personalities between the different chapters involved.
Agree. If they do space marines, they should make them Deathwatch. There's a reason the FFG RPGs used Deathwatch as the default space marine chapter, it offers the most variety in storytelling.
There are Deathwatch and Chaos marines in the Eisenhorn series. Not often, but well placed which would allow them to be shown without taking over.
The Deathwatch series by Steve Parker would be an AWESOME blueprint for this idea even if they end up with different kill team members. A cold open episode infiltrating an ork ship. One season unraveling a genestealer cult plot. One season battling against the Tau. Showing the human element as they have to work with local forces or having a perspective from the people they're "saving."
You definitely have an awesome idea there.
This is the correct answer, but I still think it should be Inquisition or Rogue Traders based, not SM.
Episode 1 opens with big action. A single astartes survives a [tyranid] threat that claims one or more of his brothers. He deals with the emotional fall out while being pulled into meetings with various figures of authority (lore dump). The episode closes with him being seconded to the Deathwatch and sent off by his chapter.
Episode 2 we arrive, undertake conditioning, take the oath, then meet (and spar/clash with) the team
It's going to be Eisenhorn. Which is the right move.
It's been hinted at a lot over the past few years. There are pictures of him with the books and everything.
Also incredibly excited for Cavil to be leading this. He's definitely the right pick.
Seconded. So much this.
Start small. The Inquisition series of novels are perfect for exploring the universe of 40k. The first time you see a Space Marine in the Eisenhorn novels is an Emperor's Children legionarie in the halfway point of the first book. It's absolutely terrifying to behold. Only at the final 20 pages of Xenos do you get a squad of Deathwatch marines in action.
As a Guard player, I for one welcome our Astra militarum protagonists before the space marines appear.
I really like the idea of delaying the Space Marines appearance, it makes me smile and reminds me of a couple things. Seeing them could feel neat if it was rare in the show, like seeing Jedi after order 66. Also it reminds me of the newest concept for a Spawn movie, keeping Spawn in the shadows and rarely seen like he's jaws.
With the way Disney does things it’s more like only a couple of the Jedi died during order 66 😂😂😂
You should invite Henry to bring his custodes and play against you!... He might not show, he might. Would be awesome :)
Henry Cavill as Commissar Ciaphas Cain. He would be perfect in the role. Cain is human and a fun, relatable character for the wider audience outside of the hobby. And He is shipped around the galaxy on assignment where he encounters, fights again or along side every possible faction.
You know I've been thinking a lot about this recently.
Cain is undeniably a great character - however, so much of his relatability comes from the way the narrative is framed, basically it's him commenting on his actions.
There's a touchstone principle in visual storytelling "Show, don't tell!" and the Caiphas Cain stories rely on telling not showing.
If you get rid of this meta commentary, the 'telling' portion, then what is left is just another super capable hero being heroic and modest ... except with Baldrick in tow.
Honestly I think it'd need a serious injection of comedy and a fair degree of fourth wall breaking meta humour just for it to work, but then you are running the risk of it's becoming too much like a Marvel movie - i.e. so tongue in cheek flippant and meta that it damages your immersion.
You'd need someone with a very dry, subdued sense of humour, and I'm not sure if that is Henry. But, in general, a Cain show/film would certainly be a very good way to counterweigh/deconstruct the grimdark at a later stage.
@@Quotheraving Funnily enough, I had been thinking of this as well, lately. All of the Cain books are told from the perspective of a guy who, according to Inquisitor Vale, has a habit of over inflating certain aspects of himself while downplaying others; a practice in hyperbole.
If a show is made, I agree, it'd have to be a commentary show similar manner of a Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Deadpool, How I Met Your Mother, etc.
Could probably play a killer Eisenhorn, as bad as a canonically expressionless character would be for TV.
Maybe just forget that part lol
@@RisenSlash Have you seen The Mandalorian?
I'm tellin' ya, Eisenhorn. At it's core, that story is a "police procedural", which is a well-known and enjoyed genre. It has awesome characters, and it delivers Astartes (traitor or otherwise) very slowly. Gaunt's Ghosts could work too, as war stories are familiar territory as well, but that would need a bit more work because of the sheer number of people involved in Guard warfare. I also believe that Mr. Cavill is actually the Emperor of Mankind and is trying to prepare us for what is to come. Someone buy him some parenting books, ASAP.
This post escalated quickly 😅
For me, Eisenhorn is the clear and obvious choice for a TV series. It focuses on humans which makes it far more relatable and things like space marines don’t feature very often. But we also hear about other things and even get to see the occasional Aeldari, giving us a taste of different factions from across the lore. It’s also a detective series in a way which makes it very accessible.
The best thing they could do is making a Gaunts Ghosts tvseries. Its by far the best way to get non nerds to watch, the premise is easy, its just band of brothers in space, making it easy to lure people in to the 40k universe, and using the Gaunt/Milo relationship is the perfect way to explain the world to the viewer
The show needs to appeal to general audiences. It needs something for everyone. Gaunt's Ghosts is a war story and war movies/shows tend not to do great unless it's about your great grandpappy in WW2 and Spielberg is directing it. Gaunt's Ghosts are good novels but for budget and quality reasons would make an unsuccessful show.
Band of Brothers in the 41st Millennium would be great for sure.
From the character dynamics, references etc. GG is more like Sharpe in space which would also be a very promising prospect
I'm torn. I really, REALLY think Eisenhorn is the very best possible starting point. It's got everything but it's NOT a war series. It's something my wife would really enjoy, unlike the nagging it would take to get her to watch Band of Brothers in Space.
Surely it needs to be eisenhorn, it’s just so good! The bequin series seems made for the screen (but throws too many lore curve balls for them to jump straight into it).
My money is on greggor
In the meantime I would just love to see Cavil host a docu-series about the hobby. Exploring, the history, the local scene in the UK, casual gaming clubs and the impact on social and mental health, the competative scene and the international embrace. A 45min- hour episode on each topic would be the best.
How about a rogue trader style to show like Serenity? Lots of options for different characters (human and xeno) as well as different worlds to explore.
Yeah and the crpg game is a great example of how building a story around a Rogue trader can provide justification for a really diverse group of characters from Astropaths to Xenos.
That said Firefly was basically an ensemble cast show about low-lives, renegades and misfits, as Joss Whedon said the kind of people that the starship enterprise would fly right past.
Rogue Traders on the other hand are nobility.. They are embroiled in family politics, system wide intrigue all while trying not to upset the religious authorities, a very different dynamic!
Like they said it's be closer to Game of Thrones in space.
If they keep the space marines for a mid season and end season action set piece, they are golden!
I’m pretty confident if nothing else they will nail the aesthetic, I imagine a production team would KILL to work on a product with this much established models and artwork. They can focus more on the story and characters when cavill can point to something and just say make it look like this.
So, my DREAM show, is David Tennent as a rogue trader. He did a fantastic job voicing the Warhammer Adventure series, which... honestly if you want a good look at what this show could be, take a look at that book series and just... age it up to be more adult, (which wouldn't be that hard, Warhammer Adventures is far from the least grimdark 40k novel i've read).
But yes I would say an inquisitor, a guardsmen, or maybe some mix...
and on another note, if we are doing guard, have Cavil play a Catachan. maybe do a Last Chancer penal legion type show with a bunch of different guard dudes fighting the horrors of the galaxy, which then leads into MOAR.
Lots you could do, Space Marines, and the Horus Heresy, are the most wrong choices out of all of them.
He needs to play an Inquisitor with a band of Inquisitorial Henchman with their own ship. Travelling the Universe investigating Cults, Xenos and Chaos on Hive planets, jungle planets, Agri-planets etc etc. Then they would have the opportunity to focus on different Henchman each episode as well as plenty of action.
Ah that Bloodquest project look amazing at the time. I remember the Dreadnought animation!
There's 2 series that should flagship the 40k entrance, this is also based on the most popular books.
Eisenhorn and Gaunts ghosts. For those that have read Eisenhorn it has chaos space marines and normal space marines, they aren't in it long but they are there.
I feel Eisenhorn is an easy "do this" because its very down to earth and a better entrance.
Where gaunts ghosts give you more "In the trenches" kind of feel, they are the 2 you should start with.
You guys on the staff would make the show amazing it’s clear all of you have given real thought to great possibilities to pull people into the show
Guant's Ghost was my landing point into the lore and story of 40K. Back when I was a weee nipper and it made me want to play 40K back at the beginning of 3rd edition. It's a perfect jumping on point.
Eisenhorn - Xenos. Caville fits the description of young Eisenhorn perfectly. Self-contained series but with an overarching character arc and proper cliff hanger, which Gaunt's Ghosts lacks. The first space marine we see is a chaos marine, who is appropriately terrifying, with a space marine vs chaos marine fight in the final episode. Andy Serkis can voice Cherubael. Ticks all the boxes.
Cavill*
If Henry goes for an original plot: arbites vs genestealer cult. Show a hive city, arbites putting down random disturbances, uncover something more sinister, has room for escalation, and most of the GSC you could do with makeup, barring big scenes. Room to escalate further if the main arbites is picked up by an inquisitor after surviving an uprising and a planet that summons a Tyranid tendril to the season 1 planet.
I absolutely adore the use of the term 'fluff' in this podcast, bring it back!
Henry Cavill is one of the last true Movies Stars. I'd watch anything with him in it!
Final moment of the series, the Space Marine (Dave Bautista) having just saved the day, is asked "who are you", he slowly turns to camera, removes his helmet and says "I am Alpharius". Cut to credits.
It's gonna be Eisenhorn. GW announced an Eisenhorn show a few years ago. Cavill would be an awesome Gregor Eisenhorn.
Needs to be a Ciaphas Cain series. He's Suave Capt. Blackadder. Hes got Jurgen. 'For the Emperor' is the perfect intro to xenos and humans. TAU, KROOT, GSC. Heck you could write in Votann. Perlia perfect as a menacing Ork story
Even just thinking about Henry doing a Warhammer show is good enough for me, what a dream.... wow...
Absolutely love these podcasts! And this episode - chef's kiss! Nice work guys!
I was thinking, what if you made him a old space marine dreadnought telling stories of the past before he became a dreadnought. You can have him convey emotion at glory in combat, the saddness of losing that freedom, show how through his time in his tomb how he grew more emotions that would make him more human or something like that
OOF, imagine it being a narrated life story, only revealed in the last episode that he's now entombed. Like Matrix-esque! That would be some heavy stuff!
guys you need to pull out every stop imaginable and get cavill on a podcast 👍
Cavill actually said he may burn the chance to play a Primarch specifically if he was to play Eisenhorn
Andy Serkis for Cherubael!
(Also he voiced a Grey Knight Grand Master haha)
The Mechanicus of Mars also needs it's own introduction.
If you're going to do a Space Marine story, do it about Gabirel Angelos from Dawn of War. Perfect self contained story that anyone could grip, that involves all the different main factions, the betrayals, the twists.
Could tell the heresy story from the perspective of the remembrances.
Would be a great way to capture short stories in the form of episodes that all link together in the end
As someone returning to the IP after many years and just properly getting into it now I think it is important to build up the myth of the space marines before they appear. Going in with imperial guard means that the IP and almost the hopelessness of the universe can be built and the foundations properly laid. I think if you jump straight in with the space marines who from my knowledge so far are the "angels" of the imperium then you cant properly show how bad it is to be in the universe because the space marines arent there. Give a teaser to them in the first episode. Maybe a sequence of an old guardsman who has seen the space marines appearing and fighting or something and then build the legend from that. Make them appear later on when all seems lost.
Making Dan Abnetts Salvations Reach into a TV series or film would be a good introduction to the factions in 40k. It is mostly about the guard (Gaunts Ghosts FTW) and introduces space marines as the super soldiers they are. It shows the archenemy heretics, some xenos and the history of 40k.
Love the podcasts and all your content in general, i got into collecting 40k at the start of 10th currently playing Necrons and Tyranids. Love having you guys in the background as i build and paint!
Thanks for your support :)
To be fair Eisenhorn was a big dude.
Good timing! Needed something new to listen to in gym! Looking forward to this one.
Edit: I have many concerns about a 40K tv show haha
Edit 2: Oh god the Ultramarines film -- the horror haha
Enjoy Buddy! - Bard
The Fifteen hours story could be a good entry into the movie series if adapted well.
Eisenhorn would be a recognizable and compelling character and would give you access to both CSM and Loyalist Marines called in. Also an inquisitor would give you access to ordinary people... The other character he could be would be a commisar
Eisenhorn is described as being very muscular and always in top shape with lot's of weight training so Henry could play him even if he's buffed
Eisenhorn contains all the core grim dark elements that makes 40K great and introduces the uniqueness of the universe succinctly. The story has great twists and turns, strong characters and a great romance side plot. There are game of thrones elements with the power wielded by inquisitors and their rivalries. And if done right would be horrifying, action packed, with loads of mystery and intrigue and GOT level addictive all at the same time.
The Space Marine just says "The Emperor Protects"
Beat me to it 😊
Yes. He does.
Okay, now do my supporters agree that the only non-original music be ABBA?
I always wanted the Second War of Armageddon to be the basis of a Warhammer 40000 movie(s)…based around Yarrick and with Dante jumping in to save the day…see 2nd Edition booklet short story of the war… But, acknowledging the ‘story’ / timeline has moved on sadly I would prefer a series to be more grimdark like Astartes and I think it needs an Inquisitor level character to show off the universe… Or they could have seasons based on characters in each faction! That’s a lot of seasons… 😅 So long as Henry and the guy who did Astartes is in the creative room we’ll be ‘ok’… I agree with Beard on when Space Marines appear!
I think Eisenhorn, Gaunts Ghosts or maybe Cain wpuld make for a cool series.
Either way id be super excited to watch a 40k series
Agree, an appearance of a space marine has to be a shock and awe moment, not like seeing a squaddie down the naafi.
Talking of Abnett, his use of Space Marines in the Gaunt’s Ghosts book Salvations Reach is spot on. The regiment gets reinforced with 3 space marines (they’re lucky to get 3) who absolutely annihilate the enemy. Pitch perfect way to show how they compare to regular humans
In order to make a space marine programme do it with costumes. Make a huge costume and get the mountain play every marine, then just cgi a new (better) face when their helmets are off. And a diffenet voice actor for each
Done
9:35 quietly, menacingly... "Skulls for the skull throne..." - Kharn.
The best basis of the show imo:
Have an aged up cavill walking through a military school, soldiers saluting him, praising him, etc. All the way to the sanctuary of his room. Looking dishevelled and worn, he decides to set the record straight and sits down to his journal
And that's when the 3-4 episode arcs of the adventures of caiphus cain begin!
PS, Serkis has already done some warhammer voice work for a video game, there's a sweet interview/tv spot with him painting.
Grey Knights Deamonhunters.
GREAT game!
Sean Pertwee also voiced Governor Severus in 2003's Fire Warrior and Dog Soldiers is awesome.
Many, many good points were discussed in this episode: I completely agree that it would be a very bad decision to begin a 40K program with Marines or The Heresy - too niche and inaccessible, until the setting has been substantially fleshed and explained to the wider audience; but that WHEN they are shown, it must be impactful and harrowing.
IMO, you begin with life in a Hivecity, starting from the deepest gutter: gang-war.
You then introduce the lowest, true Imperial authority in the guise of Arbites: sweeping up the survivors of a turf-war and shipping them out to properly direct the former gangers' aggression in a way that is useful to the Imperium - conscripts in a Guard army of crew of a Naval vessel.
And then all the former gangers are killed in combat! Pathos, but now an inkling of the grim brutality of the setting has been made.
From this introduction, you focus properly upon a platoon or company in some Guard regiment and follow them on a portion of a campaign, and the talk between the members expands upon and explains what was witnessed (not directly, but abstractly in vague ways that would be understood by fellow Guards-persons) in the first season by the members telling their stories. MAYBE a demi-squad of Astartes are seen, distantly, in some supporting action to highlight their utter efficient brutality in comparison to Guard assets and capabilities.
And then, more and More and MORE of the setting.
Again, just my humble opinion about how to get the grimdark ball rolling.
Thank you for your podcast.
I just recently saw this and it is very entertaining (and especially this episode) and super interesting.
I know a bit about the lore, but by far not as much as you three do, so I enjoyed hearing your opinions.
Personally I think for the wider audience it is the best to start small, with the normal humans.
There are just whispers about the dark terrors.
Maybe a chaos cult is rising and it gets more and more horror-like and in the end demons appears.
And then, when all hope is lost the Angel themselves are saving the day (or the most of it?).
Very interesting, but not as "effective" would be a series like black mirror with different perspectives.
If you’re doing a pod cast, are you putting it on apple at any point?
Warhammer could and should be the sci-fi equivalent of Game of Thrones
Henry did an interview for Empire magazine in 2021, and he said ( direct quote) when asked about playing Eisenhorn "I mean, ok don't know about Eisenhorn necessarily, when you've got Valdor and the Primarchs out there. It seems a shame to be a mere Inquisitor. But I would absolutely leap at that opportunity - it's something I'd be very, very excited to do". We all know he's a massive Custodes fan, so something along those lines?
I remember an interview with Abnett where he says that space marines are, in some ways, more human than we are. Astartes feel their obligations and the emotions they are tied to more acutely than us baseline humans, who get used to compromising and negotiating our way through life besides suppressing our true feelings/selves. This is what makes them so terrifying and explains why so many turn to heresy when they discover the truth behind imperial society.
Eisenhorn is to me the best way to introduce the mainstream into warhammer
A pitch, picture this: two unknown middleaged men tabling their respective 40K armies, ready to play a match. Camera zooms into the miniatures as the last deployment is being placed and the show becomes a live action reenactment of what is happening on the tabletop gamewise with dialogues keying the viewer in on the context of the battle and the greater war it belongs to. Introduce key characters to provide a background which can, after a first series of episodes like this, later be exploited in self-centered spinoffs explaining different parts of 40k lore.
Here's an idea: a series of 1-hour episodes that follow a new recruit in the Astra Militarum. It follows them through their life on the battlefield before their ultimate demise at the climax of the finale. It lasts 15 episodes
Orks would probably need some sort of "Orks vs Orks" episode at first, establish the culture and have it be a mix of comedy and violence. Then you introduce them against human with all their flashiness and have it really contrast with the situation from the human's POV.
I just read the first Uriel Ventris book "Nightbringer" and I have to say that it would probably adapt pretty well into a Tv-Series. It balances Space Marine POV with Human POV where Uriel don't take over but rather serves as a more supporting character for the most part. Several normal humans make up the rest of the cast and get almost equal screentime. The plot (no spoilers) is not too complex and constrained to one or two planets and places. I would also love to see Cavill as Uriel Ventris.
Really enjoyed this podcast episode! I think we can have alot of confidence that with Henry being in the role of Executive Producer he will be heavily involved in alot of the creative and management decisions to guide a Warhammer media production into life. But he has a mammoth task ahead of him no doubt
Actually loved this podcast gents, you need to carry on this conversation. 😂 I’d like to see a film following an Inquisitor of ordo-Xenos, that way you could bring in Astartes gradually with the DeathWatch and build on chapter lore.
I think its going to be more of a Rogue Trader style story because then you can moved characters and races in and out of the seasons.
Richards boylens cadian vs the tyranids live action short feel like a good way to intro astartes. We hear the voice. Fans that know will freak out. Newbies will get the sense of hope and maybe fear.
Cooking with Swarmlord. Come along with Swarmlord as it shows you how to prepare, portion then absorb biomass from a variety of human cultures. You too can attain Michelin star perfection with its top tips.
The moment in the second or third gaunts ghosts book when they met that one chaos space marine in the forge was amazing. hammered home the idea that the space marine are a terrible thing to behold and encounter
The Heresy is impactful because like The Hobbit or the Star Wars prequels, you know where everything goes. You see things coming together. I don't think it would would as an entry point. The best way to introduce the idea of it would be through a Dark Imperium series focusing on Guilliman. Make that the epic scale blockbuster series that comes after the smaller, human-focused show. That way you can have the introduction of space marines or Guilliman as the big climax of the first show, which then spins off. And because it focuses on Guillman, you can have flashbacks to the Heresy where it's appropriate.
It's important to remember that 40K is fundamentally satire and actually quite comical a lot of the time. I'm thinking a Ciaphas Cain, AKA Blackadder in space, type thing. It will likely be aimed at a 13-15 year old target audience. Personally speaking, I'd like to see the horror elements of the setting, but I expect to see a watered down, 40K cheesy comedy.
Obviously I hope not, but that's what I expect
That said, the Helsreach animation has 2 million views on this platform and doing a live action version could be outstanding!
It would make me explode if that one space marine is a single Deathwing Terminator shows up and is like "The Reaper hath come" *OR* if it's Cypher.
My personal take on this is that one of the single best entries into the Warhammer 40K universe for the mainstream would be to focus on the Scholum Progenium.
This is where you can also catch that young adult audience, and then really highlight the horror, the pragmatism, the inhumanity of both the imperium, and the galaxy in which it exists.
In the Scholam students are indoctrinated in all aspects of the imperial creed. This is where all, and I do mean, all of the various institutions of the imperium can be seen, or not seen, depending upon who they are.
It would allow the introducing of the politics of the imperium, it would allow us to introduce different kinds and types of human beings from all across the species.
It would be the perfect way to show, and not tell, by simply showing what it is the students go through as they become the tools of war for the imperium of man.. and what is taken away from them.
Also, if we were to consider the idea of a grand scale, or multi series/multiple franchise movie which quite frankly it would have to be to even have a hope to capture a story that has a timeline that goes back 65 million years to the Wars in Heaven… but being able to follow the journey of children that we can empathize and possibly relate to, as they become the adults that that would be absolutely horrifying us, in a universe we couldn’t comprehend?
Kino Shit.
It would even allow to have reoccurring characters that could be unseen or unknown to future casts of characters but the audiences established knowledge of them and who they are would crate a particular context for the stories being told.
To sum it all up, I think it would be a mistake to try and introduce Warhammer through a trans human lens from the word go.
It would even be a mistake to try and introduce it in from the Horus Heresy. Ideally, if you could, you would want to start from the unification wars to set up the heart and souls of the story, which, in this case would be humanity and the emperor.
But if you really wanted the scales of power, and the spectrum of horror both cosmos and human as well as the desperation to truly get across, I don’t think you could do it any better than by starting with what happens to the orphans. And it would make the introduction of a Space Marine that much more necessarily impactful.
It's gonna be Horus Heresy with Henry Cavill as Horus.
Imagine seeing a blue space marine come out of the shadow thinking of course it’s an ultramarine, but you hear, “death to the false emperor”..
I would love to see Cavill play Castellan Crowe, and lead the gray knights. I mean look at the mini. It even looks like him. Not to mention there’s so much backstory to the blade of Antwyr that we haven’t yet heard.
Just take the Final Liberation cut scenes and put a bit more story round them. Loved those growing up haha.
C. Robert Cargill, who co-wrote the first Doctor Strange film is a massive Warhammer 40K fan
I'm putting my money on eisenhorn. It has everything. Starts off with some pretty gritty sci-fi action. Later in the book/series of books multiple characters are introduced. For example. Rogue traders including the ship, relations between him and bequin, chaos cults, a freaking titan eventually. Lots of interactions between him and the dark side of the inquisition.
Yer 100% I got a tenner on Eisenhorn 👍
The Helsreach animation on RUclips portrayed the orks really well. It embraced their brutality and predisposition for violence while leaving out all the soccer hooligan shenanigans.
I would love to see a show about an aspriant going into training and through the whole Space Marine making process. Start off as human and transform beyond that and evolve as time goes on.
Totally agree, basing the series on Space Marines would be a disaster. They are simply not accessible, they are too hard to understand and trying to make them human would undermine their real role in the 40k universe. Gaunt's Ghosts or Eisenhorne would be the way to go. Real people trying to survive and protect humanity in a universe of monsters. The recently produced books that followed a noir style of enforcers investigating crimes in hive cities were really good also, but more focussed on the bureaucracy/hierarchy of the Imperium, but still very human stories with insight into the 40k world from the perspective of hive dwellers.
Heresy is absolutely built for Game of Thrones in space as a series style. You can focus in on the primarchs and key marines and make it work wonders. Just imagine the Drop Site Massacre as the Red Wedding equivalent!
HC should be Sanguinius. That would let him appear in flashbacks and as a spirit. Setting up a later big budget Heresy show.
Imagine Cavill holding the Eternity Gate. Epic stuff.
You have not seen Angels of death ? When the Dreadnaught appears......damn that is a good moment.
An imperial navy officer may be a good candidate for main character shadow point book comes to mind as a very interesting way of getting around enough to keep things interesting
I have to say, I think the perfect setting for a tv show would be a Rogue Trader and his/her/their entourage. A rogue trader can have space marines assigned to their ship from a successor chapter. there is all kinds of work arounds that don't fall into the issues of say a radical vs. puritan inquisitor. If you want one main star, you could go with an Officio Assassinorum operative with missions that are one episode and others that involve a whole season.
I think they should do the Lord of the Rings Fellowship approach with the Heresy. Have an amazing larger than life spectacle opening of the siege of Terra with Titans, thousands of Marines fighting and culminate to the final confrontation between Horus and The Emperor. All the while being Narrated by some guy with an epic voice and maybe its even a scribe recounting the story as they tend to the golden thrown. I'm thinking Ralph Ineson, that guy has a voice built for 40k. Then lead into a more relatable character or group like a guardsman. They definitely need to have Space Marines but as these monolithic characters that have a lot of mystery behind them. That was the mistake of the Halo show with having master chief as the main character, it destroyed the mystery and power behind the character. They're the Emperors angels and should be always viewed through the eyes of the every day men and women.
Second this. This would please the HH fans and set up viewers already with some idea of main characters and the idea of the scale.
Good point on the Orks. I think as Lawrence says Space Marine 1 executed them pretty well. I think a little more like this and also the Dawn of War 2 trailer where the Orks are just cutting up and pulling the arms off of injured Marines. Kind of like Lord of the Rings where the Orcs and Uruks are brutal and revel in violence but not goofy like in tabletop 40K. The odd bit of humour may work but probably limited.
Eldar would be cool as a faction that is mysterious and helps out now and again, and also easier to film and execute.
I would love to see Custodes somehow in there, maybe the Aquilon shield who show up to protect individuals who will help the imperium in the future!
So much scope it’s hard to filter it down. But hope it does well and then there’s endless potential for future seasons and spin offs.
Now imagine the chapter in the scene Beard described is the Iron Hands. I think they would be a good introduction to the SM because they are loyal but not "good guys" in the way Salamanders, Space Wolves or Ultramarines are. It would underline the grim dark aspect and also serve to build up the introduction of chaos marines because it would make you think "if those are the loyal marines, just how bad are the traitors gonna be?".
We know Cavill is a Custodes fan, and we also know that they will probably spend the first 30 min (hopefully in a 2 hour premiere) covering the heresy (pulling from the end and the death part 2) to get non 40k people up to speed. But in that flashback we see Cavill as Constatin Valdor before he leaves and in 40k turns into the Yellow King. Allows Cavill to focus on exec producing until the series gets to the point where Valdor returns in lore.
Gaunt's Ghosts/Cain style is the way to go, The big problem with an Inquisitor focused show, as that the don't interact as much with what makes 40k, 40K. If the inquisitor is stuck on a battlefield trying to figure out how to take down a Dreadblade...he/she done screwed up somewhere.
A story centered on a small Astra Militarum unit has the benefit of not only being relatable, they can dip their toe in everything. They can be roped into an Inquisitorial retinue, they can see a Titan in the distance, they can run into a Chaos Psycher, they can be saved at the last minute by some Marines Malevolent that bolters one of their own on the way out for kicks, they can be hunted by Drukari, screwed over by the Administratum, etc.
Before it was announced that Henry Canvill was making a 40k show, he was asked if there was a 40k movie/show what who he'd wanna play, he said he couldn't chose, because as soon as he'd pick a certain space marine, then he'd be locked to that and couldn't be Valdor/imperial guard character or what ever, so I'd say there's a good chance he's NOT gonna be in the first series.
Also IF they'd make a Horus Heresy series, I don't think you'd start with that, that's rather if they'd make a 'cinematic universe' kinda thing, many years (maybe 10) down the line, but I agree, maybe not start on space marines.
Honestly I would love if the first space marine we see is a Chaos Marine. Just imagine the squad of protagonists running for their lives through a building whilst a Chaos Marine is barging through walls and they have no hope of stopping them
I think either a Ciaphas Cain or an Eisenhorn show would serve as a nice introduction to Warhammer 40K!