Hello Ktwo. I think you hit some of the key characteristics that also in my experience appeared to be important for a Foildrive board. I tried 6 different boards 😅 with Foildrive. The bigger rocker 🍌seemed to me a reason why my 45l prone/wing board would create so much front foot pressure. With a flat rocker it's so much better. Stiffness is key., yes, as you said. I felt the difference of a softer Bamboo Tech Board and a full carbon. Both 4'6". 25l and 30l. Eventhough the Bamboo tech was thinner 25l, the very stiff carbon one gives much more controll. The width of the nose and the tail are also crucial to control. More narrow = more control. However a wider/flatter nose starts very early with FD. I see that the nose "scoop" of your board is very flat. One comment said it might catch in choppy conditions. My favourite board now, (the Crush 4'6" Duotone30l) has like a curled up nose just in the very front. Seems even that they attached a piece of foam for that nose😊. I am not sure about what you've said about the positive effect on the torque and the board's pitching 🤔...for me the angle of the motor towards the boards rocker line is more dominant on pitch. That "flap" you're using above the motor is quite amazing. Might have a big advantage on the pitch when starting and motoring.💪 Anyway, you know much more about shapes, I just wanted to pay my respect to what you are doing! 💪💪Stefan
Terrific video Ktwo, & thanks for your continuous innovation and providing updates. All of your points make sense & translate into board refinements/improvements. Diminishing board volume though does have a negative impact. Many riders do not have access to smooth rolling almost perfect surface conditions (like in your video), and have mediocre to very rough chop most of the time. With -ve low volume boards, one often continuously struggles to keep nose of board above water building speed for coming on to foil.☀🌊🏄♂
Would a Bridge bolt (like a square U shaped) help on eather board? You could weld the screws to a plate and it could be placed on the top of the board (with a thin insert)
we used m8 bar welded to a plate on the small board, hence the 4mm, but since that we have sourced some inserts that are stronger, lighter, thinner and do the same thing.
Amazing work!!! In theory the big breakthrough would be when you create a board with the foildrive located in front of the mast above the front foil so it'll be 100 percent balanced around the center of lift which is the pivot point for turning and pumping. what's your take on this?
I'd be keen to remove weight first - and advance battery tech - as I understand the cells have come a long way since the max was released. Weight - I have heard that reversing the drive makes things a lot worse, and I am of the opinion that the weight has to be even under the rider's centre of mass.. But I have not experimented so do not know. A lot of us have come to prone only with foildrive, so we have dialled in to what we have. maybe anything different will feel 'wrong' even if it is right haha
@@ktwo-surf I already did this experiment with a DIY foildrive and a board, also talked to others who did similar things, there's no question that the weight should be between your feet where the front wing is, that's the turning and pumping pivot point so it improves both. The new mid length boards put the tracks quite forward for the same reason
Great innovation, look forward to a production board 😉 Question. All your vids appear to be in pretty buttery conditions.. how does a short board to motor length handle in bumpy / choppy conditions ? I’m considering to motor up wind and then ride the bumps home. Thinking I’m going to be very “active” on the board ?
not too bad but if you want to be smooth you have to keep your eye on your height - in rough water that means hugging the terrain, but downwind you get the gain on the way home...
you are of course right - I wish the FD system was adjustable - heard they were coming out with an adjustable system. But - if I used the 15cm motor on the standard board it would still be where I am now - 20cm (as the pod adds 5cm). 78cm is my chosen mast length, and the shortest one they make - I don't want to ride 83, and they would need to make a 73cm to get to 78 with an inset board, which they don't make.. This winter I want to make a system of my own - some new cells on the horizon (molicell) try and get the weight down a bit and loose the pod.
disagree - too short and you have to move the drive back to avoid pearling - that limits takeoff, move it forward and the thing falls over it's nose. volume has nothing to do with it. Do kiteboarders ever talk of volume in their twin tips? It's the same set of physics - volume is not a factor in any of the characteristics needed to fulfil it's purpose. (aside paddling home or sat on it and talking to your mates without drowning) lol also - made totally flat boards and they start later than ones with rocker. no one was more surprised than I but it's a proven fact. (in my world anyway)
I always takeoff with a wave or bump, don't use it in flat water. The smaller the more skaty it feels and turns better, which is the use I do, surfing.
@@pedromarcos1472 I need to be able to do a flat water takeoff as it's part of the reason for having it in my mind.. at 2.7kg it's mass is pretty low so not sure reducing length would gain me more than I would loose in practicality (personally!) I did inset a 4' production prone board and it was a headache unless you were starting on a wave... but each to their own...
They are not a mass production item.. bespoke made in house, over here in the UK.. Rumour has it foil drive does not believe in them, and I admit - it's a marginal gain, but it's a gain.
Anti Cavitation plate - makes the drive much quieter, smoother and stops the drive from surging when it's close to the surface. Also fairs the trailing edge, so it's close to an integrated cable.
@@ktwo-surf just get a 15cm cable and move the motor as close to the board you can, then the FD box will act as your "anti cavitation plate", keep it simple! Anyway, that setup looks like very beginner friendly, if thats the point, fair enough!
Great explanation of some key concepts look forward to the production versions!
Hello Ktwo. I think you hit some of the key characteristics that also in my experience appeared to be important for a Foildrive board.
I tried 6 different boards 😅 with Foildrive.
The bigger rocker 🍌seemed to me a reason why my 45l prone/wing board would create so much front foot pressure. With a flat rocker it's so much better.
Stiffness is key., yes, as you said. I felt the difference of a softer Bamboo Tech Board and a full carbon. Both 4'6". 25l and 30l. Eventhough the Bamboo tech was thinner 25l, the very stiff carbon one gives much more controll. The width of the nose and the tail are also crucial to control. More narrow = more control.
However a wider/flatter nose starts very early with FD.
I see that the nose "scoop" of your board is very flat. One comment said it might catch in choppy conditions. My favourite board now, (the Crush 4'6" Duotone30l) has like a curled up nose just in the very front. Seems even that they attached a piece of foam for that nose😊.
I am not sure about what you've said about the positive effect on the torque and the board's pitching 🤔...for me the angle of the motor towards the boards rocker line is more dominant on pitch.
That "flap" you're using above the motor is quite amazing. Might have a big advantage on the pitch when starting and motoring.💪
Anyway, you know much more about shapes, I just wanted to pay my respect to what you are doing! 💪💪Stefan
Terrific video Ktwo, & thanks for your continuous innovation and providing updates. All of your points make sense & translate into board refinements/improvements. Diminishing board volume though does have a negative impact. Many riders do not have access to smooth rolling almost perfect surface conditions (like in your video), and have mediocre to very rough chop most of the time. With -ve low volume boards, one often continuously struggles to keep nose of board above water building speed for coming on to foil.☀🌊🏄♂
Great video dude, amazing to see how the board designs are evolving. Loving my gen 1 board!!! 😊
Brilliant! Well done guys
Looking good 👍
Why don't u mount the motor closer to the board then they have the 12cm cables
Would a Bridge bolt (like a square U shaped) help on eather board? You could weld the screws to a plate and it could be placed on the top of the board (with a thin insert)
we used m8 bar welded to a plate on the small board, hence the 4mm, but since that we have sourced some inserts that are stronger, lighter, thinner and do the same thing.
Amazing work!!!
In theory the big breakthrough would be when you create a board with the foildrive located in front of the mast above the front foil so it'll be 100 percent balanced around the center of lift which is the pivot point for turning and pumping. what's your take on this?
I'd be keen to remove weight first - and advance battery tech - as I understand the cells have come a long way since the max was released.
Weight - I have heard that reversing the drive makes things a lot worse, and I am of the opinion that the weight has to be even under the rider's centre of mass..
But I have not experimented so do not know. A lot of us have come to prone only with foildrive, so we have dialled in to what we have. maybe anything different will feel 'wrong' even if it is right haha
@@ktwo-surf I already did this experiment with a DIY foildrive and a board, also talked to others who did similar things, there's no question that the weight should be between your feet where the front wing is, that's the turning and pumping pivot point so it improves both. The new mid length boards put the tracks quite forward for the same reason
Great innovation, look forward to a production board 😉 Question. All your vids appear to be in pretty buttery conditions.. how does a short board to motor length handle in bumpy / choppy conditions ? I’m considering to motor up wind and then ride the bumps home. Thinking I’m going to be very “active” on the board ?
not too bad but if you want to be smooth you have to keep your eye on your height - in rough water that means hugging the terrain, but downwind you get the gain on the way home...
Love the innovation and explanation but why would you not use a shorter cable, say 15cm or shorter, to get even more usable mast?
you are of course right - I wish the FD system was adjustable - heard they were coming out with an adjustable system.
But - if I used the 15cm motor on the standard board it would still be where I am now - 20cm (as the pod adds 5cm).
78cm is my chosen mast length, and the shortest one they make - I don't want to ride 83, and they would need to make a 73cm to get to 78 with an inset board, which they don't make..
This winter I want to make a system of my own - some new cells on the horizon (molicell) try and get the weight down a bit and loose the pod.
You can use a much smaller board if you put some volume on it. Like 4.0x17 flat rocker with some scoop on the nose
disagree - too short and you have to move the drive back to avoid pearling - that limits takeoff, move it forward and the thing falls over it's nose.
volume has nothing to do with it. Do kiteboarders ever talk of volume in their twin tips? It's the same set of physics - volume is not a factor in any of the characteristics needed to fulfil it's purpose. (aside paddling home or sat on it and talking to your mates without drowning) lol
also - made totally flat boards and they start later than ones with rocker. no one was more surprised than I but it's a proven fact. (in my world anyway)
I always takeoff with a wave or bump, don't use it in flat water. The smaller the more skaty it feels and turns better, which is the use I do, surfing.
@@pedromarcos1472 I need to be able to do a flat water takeoff as it's part of the reason for having it in my mind.. at 2.7kg it's mass is pretty low so not sure reducing length would gain me more than I would loose in practicality (personally!)
I did inset a 4' production prone board and it was a headache unless you were starting on a wave... but each to their own...
@ktwo-surf everything that is in front of your front foot creates alot more inercia than what's under you.
@@pedromarcos1472 tell that to the downwind crew 🤣
Where can I order a cavitation plate here in the US? Thanks
They are not a mass production item.. bespoke made in house, over here in the UK..
Rumour has it foil drive does not believe in them, and I admit - it's a marginal gain, but it's a gain.
What is the flat piece above the motor pod?
Anti Cavitation plate - makes the drive much quieter, smoother and stops the drive from surging when it's close to the surface. Also fairs the trailing edge, so it's close to an integrated cable.
@@ktwo-surf just get a 15cm cable and move the motor as close to the board you can, then the FD box will act as your "anti cavitation plate", keep it simple! Anyway, that setup looks like very beginner friendly, if thats the point, fair enough!
@@pedromarcos1472 its the air travelling down the back of the mast that the plate stops... but yes - 15cm is good.
@@ktwo-surf how do you install it?
@@martinomovies have a look at the vid - timecode 00:30
4 x m8 Bolts and an electric driver - takes 2 sec to fit and remove..👍