2020 Black Crows Ski Comparison and Review - Orb, Camox, Navis, Corvus, Atris, Nocta
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- Опубликовано: 9 дек 2019
- A lot of you have been asking for this video, and it's finally here! We're psyched to be a Black Crows dealer now and will be releasing more content throughout the season. As we were unable to include them in our 2020 Ski Comparison series, we thought we'd do a separate Black Crows Comparison.
4:38 - Orb
7:00 - Camox
9:43 - Navis
13:30 - Corvus
17:45 - Atris
21:00 - Nocta
Written Article: www.skiessentials.com/Chairli...
December SkiHappy Contest: www.skiessentials.com/ski-happy
2020 Black Crows in our Ski Test: www.skiessentials.com/2020-sk...
Awesome video guys
I really like watching you ride on the skis you reviewing. Genius !
I'm learning on some 157 Magnus this season.
Thanks Christopher! Have a great season!
Excellent video chaps. Very informative for some late season purchases in mind.
Literally was looking for a video like this for the past week! Watched a ton of your reviews, but this just happened to surprise me. Thanks dudes.
Oh also, you should definitely get a chance to review the Daemon. People rave about that ski, but with the reverse camber profile I am hesitant on how it handles.
Best reviews on RUclips.
Guys, again, your videos are the best reviews on the web. Bravo to you both and bravo to the company supporting your effort. I know you guys aren't "alpine tour guys," but do the same exact comparison for the Black Crows Freebird series. Many of us out here will thank you for doing that video.
A good portion of our staff tours a lot, especially during shoulder seasons and on a good powder day. A lot of people have been asking for a video like that, we'll do our best!
thanks guy, the best review
Great video as always! Really wanted to know more about those skis!
Great review guys, would love to see a review of the Freebird series next! I'm looking at the Ferox Freebird but worried it might be a bit soft being so light!
We're going to try to work in some Freebird reviews! I will say that everyone who has tested them or owns them, really likes their performance.
Great, helpful video!
absolutely love my camox. such a fun ski
They are great!
Stoked on this video, it's nice to see them all compared at once rather than 6 different videos etc. I'm curious about their Resort style skiis like the Vertis.
We're planning on doing some additional reviews of skis not in this comparison!
Great review as always from you guys. Best on RUclips, definitely! How would you compare Atris to Enforcer 110?
Peter Ström atris is lighter, enforcers are tanks and a big charge ski
Just bought a pair of Camoxs after watching this LFG!!!!
What i really like about black crows: Every ski in their lineup has really good edgegrip on hard snow
Yes! It's impressive.
Sounds like they’ll be great for us east coast skiers who deal with a lot of firm snow and icy conditions
What about the captis?
Hi guys, been spending all my time diving into your reviews, really awesome stuff and appreciating the depth and technicality of these reviews. I wanted to ask you guys a question about what two width of skis makes the most sense in a "two ski quiver". I think I've settled on a 80-86mm frontside ski and a 104-108 big mountain ski as the two types. Would you suggest pushing those widths further apart and picking two skis that are even more frontside and off piste oriented, or will i then be missing something from skis in that middle "all mountain" bracket? Love Black Crows as a company so very tempted by the Atris, but the Ripstick 106 black and the Stormrider 105 are making me ask questions! Looking forward to 2021 reviews, cheers guys!
Hi Cameron!
I think you're on the right track here. I wouldn't push that range any further personally, I agree you'd be missing the middle segment of performance, which is arguably the most important. Atris would be a fantastic wide choice as it's super playful and floats exceptionally well. For the narrower ski, I'd actually go with the 85 to 90 underfoot range as that'll retain some good all-mountain performance. For example, an Enforcer 88 would be a nice compliment and it's a ski you can still take off trail. Have you watched the 90 mm comparison video? Lots of good options in there.
@@SkiEssentials Appreciate the advice, I think i've watched that video a good few times now aha. Something that can handle versatile snow conditions is important as I won't be consistently skiing in one location so I'm more than happy to tackle that 90mm range! The enforcer range has always had my attention so will definitely dive deeper into that 88, and it's clear you guys liked that ski a lot. The other ski that jumped out from that range was the Stormrider 88. How would you differentiate those skis? I know we're splitting hairs here but i'm one for the details! Thanks again
Awesome reviews, love it. thanks a lot.
Any thoughts about camox vs bc100, please
More camber in the Bent Chetler, which gives it more energy and a snappier feel. Camox is a little smoother overall, but not as energetic. I think most would find the Camox to be a little stronger, while the Bent Chetler more playful. Overall, pretty similar skis, but that's where I feel a difference.
No Anima!! what is this?!
Hi guys! Great review! Any feedback or review soon of the Camox, Navis Anima Freebird series? In Alps its huge for freeride this series, even when are pretty light and this should mean less grip, etc..
We're hoping to do some Freebird reviews, yes!
This is a great video! You guys know your stuff 👍🏻. My husband has a pair of Daemon and loves them!! He now wants a big mountain/ powder ski. He demo the Atris. As you pointed out, the skis perform very differently. Is there a wider version of the Daemon? Should he go with the K2 mindbender 108 instead? Thank you!
Hi Rebeca!
Thanks! Yes, if he loves the Daemon the Atris might be on the lightweight/soft-flexing side for him. He'd probably love the Corvus, however. Those skis have a relatively similar feel. Neither ski uses any camber, which is relatively rare, and both skis have metal in their construction. Mindbender 108 Ti would be a better choice than the Atris as well, at least if he's looking for a similar feel as the Daemon.
Hello, i was decide to buy the ATRIS but i am not sure which size should i get. I am 178cm and 75kg. I would like to go for the 178 size but i am bit afraid of feeling it not stable or short. I want to use the ski for jump, tree so thats why i think the 178 model fits me better but i would appreciate if you can give me some advice. Thank you
Does anyone know why they actually discontinued the Navis?? Were they generally not good enough??
Thoughts / comparison on the BC Orb vs. Volkl Kendo 88 vs. Head Core 93? Looking for something with more edge grip that can still work in the trees. Demo's the Kendo and Core 93 last weekend and loved both.
In my opinion, the Orb is somewhere in between the Kendo 88 and Kore 93 in its feel and purpose. It's not as precise or quite as powerful as the Kendo, but more than the Kore 93. You could say the opposite about maneuverability off trail and overall soft snow performance. In other words, it's a very well-rounded ski.
Great video! Would love a review of the Black crows Anima as well, completing the 4 big mountain skis. Also can someone plz explain the diffrence between the Atris and Anima?
The Atris is narrower and a little bit more directional. They're fairly similar overall, but the Anima feels like a real freestyle-influenced powder ski. The Atris is a touch more versatile, in my opinion.
the atris is gonna be more usable on bumpy terrain. in my opinion, the anima is better on groomers for carving BUT ONLY IF THE GROOMER IS FLAT AND YOU ARE SKIING FAST and making wide carves aggressively. however, on bumps, the anima is not great. it’s simply too wide for that. In powder, however, the anima cannot be beat. I like it better than the nocta because it is aggressive and a classic feeling. To sum up, anima is better for perfect groomers and powder while the atris is good at those and a bit better at bumps and tracked up terrain overall. I suggest you buy the anima for those great powder days and the camox for days that aren’t super deep
Hi guys ! Really cool reviews.
I'm currently skiing Volkl Mantra M5 as my daily drivers. I love the stiffness and carving abilities of it. But I'm looking for a new pair of skis to go touring and also bring to the resort. I'm interested by Black Crows and I wanted to know your opinion on which model would fit me best ? Thanks Corvus, Atris and Corvus Freebird my choices for now.
Hi Pier! The Corvus Freebird would work really well for you I think. The normal Corvus is a bit heavy for touring. The Atris could work too, but that's also going to be a bit heavier than the Corvus Freebird. I think you'll really like the Corvus Free and I think it's a nice complement to an M5 Mantra as a little 2-ski quiver.
Great video! You gave turning radius for all but the Atris & Noctra. What are those please? Thanks!!!!!
Nocta is 26 m, pretty darn big. Atris is a bit smaller, 20 m.
Would you take the Atris over the Fischer 102 fr? I'm at Snowbird, Utah and my other ski is the Stockli Laser AX Trying to decide between the two for my big ski to pair with my Stockli, thanks guys!
Maybe, just for the extra width, but realistically they would both fill that role well. I know Snowbird gets tracked out pretty good, and I'd probably prefer the 102 in those conditions, so it depends whether you want to focus on the real powder days or the day-after-leftovers days.
Favorite ski channel on RUclips! I’ve got the enforcer 93 which I use as a one ski quiver since I ski on piste and off piste 50/50. I want to start skiing more backcountry and deeper snow and want a “dedicated powder ski”. I wonder what ski would be the best dedicated powder/softer snow ski, the enforcer 104 or the black crows atris 108 as I will be keeping my enforcer 93s for harder snow
Since you already have the Enforcer 93 and this is going to be a more dedicated powder ski, I'd go with the Atris. The 104 is a great ski, hands down, but the Atris feels more like a true powder ski in my opinion. The 104 is designed more as a wide, playful, all-mountain ski and less as a true powder ski. In my opinion, the Enforcer 93 and an Atris would be a killer two-ski-quiver.
I really love my 104s but they are probably a little too skinny and all mountain focused to be a dedicated powder ski for use in backcountry. Many days they would work fine but when the snow gets really soft and deep you would be better off with a fatter, powder oriented ski. I hope this helps.
@@bradleydickerman4631 Yeah the Atris would fill that role really well. You could even justify going wider, like the Nocta, and then you'd REALLY get a true powder ski. Enforcer 93, Enforcer 104, and a Nocta would be pretty badass.
Anima ?
Great video! Great to see them all compared. I've enjoyed skiing the Mantra last few seasons but looking to try out Black Crows as seem a really cool company. What's the nearest thing to the Mantra or are they all different as lighter and more playful?
They're definitely not all lighter and/or more playful than the Mantra. Check out the Daemon. I had some test days on that ski last year and it has a lot of similarities to the Mantra.
@@SkiEssentials thanks for this. Had Daemons on the list to try for a while. Sadly no stores stock them. Of the Orb and Navis which is best for charging piste with option for off piste when weather allows (European based)? Guess the one ski quiver
@@jameswalkinshaw105 Navis, just for the extra width. Lots of camber in the Navis too, which boosts stability on and off-piste.
Using the Camox Freebird ! They are pure gold !!
Ride The Snow also on the pist? Not too light? Thanks!
@@dudu88xx yeah, I'm using it both ski tourung and on pist.
Verry polyvalent !
The very limit is on hard packed snow on pist, there is sometimes a lack of gripp
IAmTheSenate Production thanks man! I am thinking of Captis.
Just ordered that ski! Will receive it April 4th, looking forward to it!!!
Same here, use it for touring. it's a bit heavier than other brands but what a blast to ski. It also have very hard edges, very useful for steep skiing.
There is absolutely no doubt that these are all killer skis. However, of the lineup above, the only design really unique to Black Crows is the Corvus (and you guys say that in the vid). Every single aspect of every other ski above was pioneered by another brand, usually long before, and available from most good progressive ski manufacturers (or in some cases just a few). The marketing, looks, and overall brand from Black Crows is what really stands out, and the reality is that is what the higher price point is paying for. BC is not a tiny boutique ski brand anymore... But again, there is no doubt that these are all killer skis. I'm not hating, just being real.
Thanks for the great video. It's useful for anyone learning about how ski design relates to performance, regardless of brand.
They have done an impressive job marketing their skis in recent years, that's undeniable. I think, however, what separates Black Crows from other brands is their willingness to make their skis much different from each other. Each ski is designed for a specific thing, instead of being a part of a collection of skis all with similar characteristics. I'd argue the Daemon is pretty unique too, especially since the old reverse camber Mantra was replaced. They're definitely not a tiny boutique brand anymore, Black Crows sells a lot of skis. Also super interesting that they use 3 different factories for manufacturing! I totally know where you're coming from and don't necessarily disagree, but I do think it's a very interesting company that makes very interesting skis.
@@SkiEssentials no doubt. But I can name quite a few other companies that make skis which are very different from each other and purpose designed, that also use the same shapes and materials etc. From a North American perspective brands like 4frnt and Moment are arguably doing the things you guys are saying Black Crows do, but better. Then again since those are true small-scale brands they sell direct and don't have the long marketing arm of say Black Crows or Line. Anyway I think you guys made an awesome video and I'm also sure that people will be psyched on their Black Crows. Nothing wrong with that. Cheers!
Nomad Trails No one forcing you to buy Black Crows if they aren’t for you. They could be just what someone else is looking for though. So your comments are quite overkill, especially the second go around.
Hello thanks for the video and the support, could be possible to know you opinion? for good snow days without sacrificing ice control, wich one would you choose the BC Atris , the Armada Arv 108 or the Nordica Enforcer 110 ? Why?
Wich one has bigger rockers?thanks for the help
Hi! I replied to your similar question over on the Enforcer 104 video. In general, among these skis, the Enforcer will feel the best on ice and firm snow thanks to the metal. I'd say the rocker profile of the Atris is the most pronounced.
Do you think the Atris or Corvus would be a better one ski quiver for the PNW (OR & WA)? I’ll be using it 50/50 in resort/side country and back country. And can they both handle “cascade concrete”? Thanks guys, great review!
And if you have other ski recommendations for the PNW please lmk. I like to ski fast and jump high
@@guitarman1234567891 In my opinion, The Corvus sounds like the better ski for you. It's super fun in soft snow thanks to its shape, while the construction gives it a stable, solid, confidence-inspiring feel when the conditions get firm. Loves to go fast, but will still play and jump around too. I say go for the Corvus, it sounds to me like you'll love it.
wanted to get into freeskiing this or next season. Would you consider the atris a good ski to start with freeskiing or is it more orientated towards the already experienced freeskier? i gotta add, that im not going to do tricks on it, got not good enough body control for that ^^. In BC atris video they mainly show athlets doing stunts, which is something that confused my quite a lot.
A lot of marketing videos in the ski industry show the best of the best doing crazy things, but realistically that's not what most skiers are doing. So, would the Atris work for you? It certainly could, but how much skiing experience do you have? Can you carve turns and get a high edge angle on groomers? The Atris is pretty wide if you're still working on general technique, if that makes sense.
@@SkiEssentials would you recommend the Navis instead?
Awesome! How do you guys think the Atris compares to a Rustler 11 as a 50/50 ski? Particularly for an intermediate/advanced skier who skies mostly at squaw/mt bachelor who already has enforcer 100s as his daily ski. Thanks and stay rad!
They're both great skis and ultimately pretty similar. In my opinion the Atris has more freestyle influence in its design. A little more pop and energy out of it, but I think the Rustler 11 is slightly more powerful/stable. Both, undoubtedly, could fill that hole in your quiver pretty nicely.
@@SkiEssentials Nice review guys, the atris (184) and the rustler 11(188) are also on my radar to replace my 1ste generation soul 7's (180). These were my first powder ski's, so, I hope ;-), meanwhile my skills improved :-). I had/have a lot of fun on them, but my soul's are missing some float and stability. I ski in Europe, most of the time we are chasing powder.
Which will be the best pick? I also like tree skiing and don't want to give up all the playfulness of my current ski. Me, almost 6' and 175lb.
Make a ZAG comparison
Hi, How would the Navis or Camox be more similar to the Ripstick 96 Black version? Cheers N
Navis. Both are directional skis. The Ripstick does have a different feel, however. Lighter, snappier, more energetic.
Heyy! thanks for the video, it was great!
I am about to order the camox and I am doubting between the 168 cm and the 174 cm.
I am 171 cm tall, but I am 15 years old and I think I will grow a bit more. Also, I would like this to be some definitive skiis (i would like them to last for at least for 4-5 years). Which height should I use?
Also, I'd like to know how do the skiis work in hard snow slopes and also in steep and "difficult" ones. Thanks!
Hi Pablo! I'd go with the 174 cm length. The Camox has a good amount of tip and tail rocker and isn't overly stiff, so it shouldn't be too demanding for you at first and will allow you to grow into it a little bit. They don't have as much edge grip as a frontside ski, but they work pretty darn well on firm snow, and exceptionally well when things get steep and challenging as they're very easy to manipulate into different turn shapes and styles.
Skiessentials.com I already bought them. Thanks!!!
How’s the camox vs the Fischer ranger 94 fr on east coast speedy groomers?
Pretty similar, I'd probably give the edge to the Ranger although just slightly. I find Fischer's construction results in more torsional stiffness than how the Camox is built. The Camox is "surfier" and arguably more playful, but the Ranger is more precise and I feel like it has stronger edge grip.
Hi, how would the 108 line vision stack up to the atris? Feedback would be great! Thanks!
Vision 108 feels quite a bit softer flexing in my opinion. Lighter too.
@@SkiEssentials thanks!
Hey, great reviews, thanks! How would you compare the Atris to the Elan Ripstick 106 (or even 116)?
Based in Switzerland, I'm looking for a pure powder ski in my 2-ski quiver. I mostly freeride, directional and fast, an occassional cliff, but I need something that pivots easily in trees, technical terrain as well as in warm, heavy and chopped up snow - small turns / pivoting is where my existing K2 Pettitor (from 2013 :D) is really not good... I'll put a Shift / Duke PT on it and want to do touring 10-20 % of my days
Hello! Both could definitely work for what you're looking to do. In my opinion, the Atris feels a little more stout and stable. Probably a little better at landing drops and natural hits because it's a little more stable. On the other hand, the Ripstick is super maneuverable and has a really fun overall feel. Very playful and energetic, just doesn't feel quite as stout. So, kind of depends what feel you prefer. Both are great skis.
can you do an update of this video for 2024 Black Crows?? love all the content.
We mainly do that for new brands or new lines of skis. Sorry to say you'll have to sort through our comparisons and reviews on your own!
@@SkiEssentialsmake exception? Or what’s the best black crow for one ski quiver?
@@the5chordI think there's two good options here from Black Crows for one ski quiver. Serpo and Captis.
I’m currently deciding between the 188cm bent chetler 100 and the 184cm Captis as a one ski quiver. From reviews I think the Captis is stiffer and more suited to piste and the chetler are better for powder. Would appreciate any input from you guys if you’ve tested them both
The Captis isn't tremendously stiffer. Both are very playful skis. Biggest difference in my opinion is the width. The BC 100 floats much better and just has a better snow feel in soft conditions. The Captis feels quicker edge to edge and super playful, but doesn't perform as well in powder. If you get a decent amount of soft snow, BC 100 might be more well-rounded for you. You could also consider the Camox, as that's more similar to the BC 100 in terms of float and soft snow performance.
Skiessentials.com Thanks guys, I’ve been going in circles for days about what ski to get but I think it’s going to be the bent chetler 100. How is the edge grip compared to the captis? I think the 100mm bent chetler leaves more room down the line to get a 85-90mm more aggressive ski for the groomers. As far as I know both are great skis in all conditions so I doubt I’ll have a bad time on either.
@@Joe_Cribben Edge grip is fairly similar between the two. Probably slightly better in the Captis, but you'll be fine on the BC 100. I agree, it does leave more room for a narrower, more groomer focused ski down the road.
@@SkiEssentials Thanks for the review! How would you compare the BC100 to the Atris? Both off and on-piste?
@@danielborkmann5155 BC100 feels lighter on your feet. A little quicker edge to edge too. In my opinion the Atris feels more stable than the BC100, and surfier. Both are a whole heck of a lot of fun to ski.
Measured length, waist width, tip/tail splay, weight, mount point would be nice. Most ski companies don't state these aspects of the skis on their sites, nor are dimensions such as length even accurate a lot of the time, so it would be useful. Just as an example Corvus actually measures ~106mm width rather than what its stated is. Thoughts?
great comparison btw, cheers guys. Bob's commentary in the more recent videos is great - he's in his element
I would like to start doing that, thanks for the recommendation! Sometimes, however, I don't want people to get too caught up in the numbers and rather think about qualitative information and description. That said, I know a lot of people like all the nitty gritty details, so we'll think about working in that information in the future!
Bob's doing a great job! He knows a lot about skis and has been very active in the ski world for a long time now.
Trying to decide on length for the atris. I’m 5’11” 160 lbs. ski a 181 cm QST99. Don’t really want something longer but I know the atris has more tail rocker. Moguls are what I’m weakest at and I want to get better at both them and fast right turns. I already feel confident going fast with large turns on a big face but looking to improve my short fast maneuvers. Would I be better off with the 178 instead of the 184?
I think, considering you're looking to get better at quick turns, there's no reason not to go with the 178 cm length. At your weight, that's still going to be fairly stable and will still float well. I always recommend getting the right tool for the job, if possible, and I think in this scenario, the 178 cm is going to be more beneficial.
@@SkiEssentials im the same height and weight. Heading to fernie for the season, i should be all good on powder on the 178cm right? I live in the uk, so dont have a chance to test.
Also, would a shift binding be ok on these for some back country, or is there too much flex? Would a frame be more suitable?
@@alexhughes2653 If you're really aggressive, you could size up, but if you fall into a similar description as Hans, I would stick with the 178 cm, more beneficial to progression.
@@alexhughes2653 Definitely, definitely, definitely go Shift over frame if you can. The Shift actually allows for a more natural flex underfoot than any frame binding, which will help a lot on these.
Is the Atris similar to the K2 Marksman in that playful feel?
Overall, yes, absolutely. Both are designed as freestyle-influenced freeride skis for soft snow.
@@SkiEssentials thanks!
I think Im going to get the atris
I got a pair and broke both my heels before ever getting to use them. I’m soo stoked on them tho.
So what would you think is the best do-it-all ski for Europe?
Within Black Crows line? In this comparison I'd give it to either the Camox or Navis, depending on ski style. Both those skis are very versatile. There's also a new ski for 2021, the Justis, which will also be a fantastic do-it-all ski.
@@SkiEssentials Great! Thanks a lot mate! Can't wait to hear more about the Justis. :)
nice video! what about the freebird line?
We had a few in our 2020 Ski Test and hopefully we'll have time for some reviews this season!
23:10 Enough reason to get one, in my book ;)
Hello! Do you have a recommendation for the bindings?
I currently have the orb free ride with a dynafit one and honestly I use them for everything. Last week I bought the atris but I don’t know what binding to buy.
A friend recommended the duke pro epf 18 in case we do some backcountry and because I’m using touring boots since all the “normal” ones kill my feet.
I’m open to suggestions :)
Thanks a lot!
If you're going to do some touring on them, yeah a Duke Pro could be a good choice. If you're going with Marker, however, I would wait for the new Duke PT as it's likely to have a better overall feel than any frame binding. We've also had success with the Shift, although the din range only goes to 13. If it were me, I would do either a new Duke PT when it's available or a Salomon/Atomic/Armada Shift.
Thank you 🙏🏻 best reviews on the Web.
how about the Daemon?
The Daemon is awesome, we just didn't have it available for this comparison. I tested it last year for a couple days actually. Kind of like a narrower Corvus. Loves high speed slashes and stuff like that.
What do you think of the Captis?
I haven't skied it but have heard that it's a pretty solid all mountain ski. Perhaps a bit stiffer than the Camox.
It's awesome! In fact, it was Bob's personal favorite in our ski test:
www.skiessentials.com/2020-ski-test/skis/2020-black-crows-captis/
Kind of like a narrower Camox...
So all skis tested on hard packed??
We tested pretty much all these skis in a variety of conditions, unfortunately not all of that testing was filmed.
Anima thoughts !?
I demoed that back to back versus Nocta, Rustler 11 and Wildcats. I'd say it was the least capable ski of that lot. It's not a bad ski, but everything else was just better - Wildcats were more stable, Rustlers more stable and versatile, and even the Nocta felt like it had an edge over the Anima. Heard similar ambivalence from other folks too about it.
I have to disagree with the above comment. I love the Animas, though to be blunt they are just not a “Dad” ski. They are freeride through and through and as such should be compared against skis like the Candide lineup, rossignol black ops, bent chetler, etc. they are really quite stable, and still have a lot of pop. Solid grip on hard snow compared to the other mentioned skis
Lots of pop and energy because of the camber height. Sets itself apart from the smeariness of the Nocta.
:D
Jesus start the video already hahaha
Sorry, lots to talk about, just trying to keep everyone up to date!
Great skis but what is going on with the person in charge of the graphics??? The ugliest looking ever!
He can't even ski!!!!
... but... but... I even included some fancy-schmancy backwards skiing! ;)
4 different skiers in this video, the third being me, so I'm sorry my skiing or the others just doesn't do it for ya. Hopefully you still find out content useful!