Agreed! So much for avoiding civilian casualties. Oh and not having the 'moving map with TSD' at EA launch is just ridiculous! I have bought two of RAZBAM's modules, and those are the last two I will ever buy.
@@tonyascaso6254 I agree that this limitation is going to force me to work harder and smarter within the limits of the initial release. Do you need a WSO ?
Great work, can't wait for this... really shows how much the ED Hornet and Viper modules need to improve to reach parity in terms of INS and AG Radar implementations. I'm aware they're working on it, but this is really setting the bar high. Day-one purchase for me.
@@SpecialistBR Correct, however ED's implementation is still rudimentary, and missing a lot of features that the real jets have - I'm just asking for that to be fleshed out.
Agree 100% . The Doppler Beam Sharpening in expanded modes still need a lot of work. Especially when compared with media that’s readily available to compare it with.
@@mitchelloswald6840 curious if you're aware of how hard it is to maintain the core engine such that all of these modules can compatibly fly together in the same server? Versus how much time it takes to implement just one module.
@@EbonySeraphim At some point that becomes a bit of a cop out argument. ED makes a framework for which 3rd parties would have to adhere to for a module to open in the SIM. It would be really inefficient if they constantly had to duplicate work. Multicrew for example is a thing after being made a core element to the SIM. FLIR modeling was jacked up and fixed as a general API that all modules could use. When a bunch of things need to share some very similar functions, you do the bulk of that work once, and the differences are variable. The person you're responding to is talking about a element that would be computed locally, and applies nearly equally to more than one module. Remember ED has some supposed super large single player fanbase. It irks me that things like NCTR tables not being updated years after a module has been released. Clouds still don't block IR. It been 2 years since clouds have been synced in MP. There are still long standing bugs in the FC3 modules. Some of which were carried over from FC2 because they reuse code. Like WPs are broken in FC3 modules if you respawn without reslotting. It's been a thing for like 10 years. I'm not saying its "easy" but its not exactly super hard, because code is clearly being reused where it makes sense for the good and the bad. Having jets just be compatible in the same space it probably like 85% free.
This video - with all the additional information on system drift and the idea of getting to know the actual target is pure gold for me. I loved every single bit of it :) Thank you so much, Notso & Razbam.
Ah amazing that there's a setting for drift left to us players in the mission editor, also the difference between a error accumulated map and fresh PVU map was night and day. Even with not being in that 0.3 range
Brilliant stuff! Just loved this. Can't wait to be doing that work on a run in after good target study. Some pressure building to get it right. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.
Take your time. By the time it's released it will be fall or later. Just in time for Christmas! lol Of course I jest, but I wish they would just release it. If they're still working on it this late in the game, then they have come across serious issues that are keeping it from release. Not good. We shall see. I have no hope though. I bet we have the Sinai map or the new Channel map before this is released...
@@Cheiff117 Because the next DCS update date is scheduled for April 12, but there is no evidence that 15E will be released, and if we miss it, we will have to wait at least another month
Wow! I never knew this much went into making these radar maps and selecting targets! Very very cool. I’m so excited to get this I can hardly stand it! Thanks for making this. I’m sure I’ll have to watch it several times once I get the module! Thanks again🤙
Question: Since the HRM limitation is 8 degrees off the nose of the aircraft to allow enough lateral motion for the SAR to do its SA magic, can you HRM areas ahead which are at least 8 degrees below the nose? paper napkin math tells me that if you are flying level at 30,000' above the terrian, anything inside ~35 nm will be 8 degrees below the nose. Is the Mudhen A2G radar computer smart enough to do that, or does it simply reject anything inside 8 degrees azimuth?
Hello ! Thank you very much for the video, unmeasurable help for understanding the radar flow. Quick question tho, is there a way to command a PVU update from the front seat ?
This is incredible and all, but it just highlights to me the lack of a mission planner. I would prefer if some DCS missions / campaigns presented us with a desired outcome, but then let us plan our own waypoints.
My decade ago suggestion for ED was that DCS World would have a mission planning table/room. In single player you would be above a table with the paper maps, and you could click the whole map to first get in the area, as in pre-set map grid would be. Then you would need to choose the best fit map for your purposes, as the target might be on the edge of the predefined map. Anyways, you would have then that piece of map on table. You would have the latest intelligence reports side of the screen. Like target coordinate or other intelligence like road of column. The building, satellite photos, the recon flight pod photos. And you would place your unit symbols on the piece of map, you would draw your flight plan on the map, you would mark the targets and have the photos for it. Then you would save the flight plan as a mission, with chosen time of day, have the proper radio frequencies, callsigns and all. Give it to the HQ that would then place all that on the strategic map overlaid with all other missions, flights and their times and progress. So you example need to know if the friendly flights are going to go near you somewhere. That way you would nicely know yourself that at 1550 time the friendly flight should be passing 50 NM of your target area, just 5 min before you. So you know that if you get something in radar or RWR at the time that it is possibly that one. In multiplayer you would do mission planning with your wingman/WSO/ROW and flight. You would then after submitting plan, see all other players missions on the strategic map, and you would know what is going to happen. You would not be allowed to take-off without flight plan, with at least few sensible waypoints and sensible flight time in the area, with proper callsign, frequency and all. So you can't just take-off and randomly head to some direction and try to just kill someone randomly. With proper AI, you would need to get AI accept your mission, so it will not allow conflicting missions on same target area, issue warnings if there is conflict of operation area, there is no enough ingelligence information (AI overflied recon flights) and so on. And AI would automatically generate proper missions like that with all the information, so in quick missions you could just jump in, check the available missions or on-going missions by AI, and jump either in plane that AI is currently flying or accept pre-done missions and jump in time of its start, while whole world is dynamically evolving around you. Like in Falcon or Enemy Engaged simulators.
yepper this all is explained so janky as well. not a fan of the ins drift either. im not flying for real life. its a game. but ya the mission planner is lacking big time
It's amazing, for everyone saying it needs to be released soon you will complain that it's in an incredibly unfinished state. Let them do there work so yall can complain less. Yall have no idea how hard this it to do.
Yes. Drift was set to be extra high/fast. For education purposes. IRL you get the much less drift, like about 1 NM per hour (or what it is in reality). So when you come to final leg, your designation doesn't really move anymore because drifting would be so negligent.
These videos are good, but it's only making the wait worse. I had no idea it was going to take so long to release when I preordered. I am not watching any more until I get it downloaded. I won't remember a thing by the time it's released. I have them all bookmarked so I can come back and get a refresher.
Thank you sir, thats so freaking interresting! so much to learn ;) one (maybe a little dumb) question is comming up for me, how do I manage all these stuff as a single player?
Sorry for what's probably a stupid question, but what exactly is the point of the steerpoint offsets? Why not directly/only use the target offset points to correct for drift? Your videos are gold by the way Notso. Many thanks!
I was wondering that too, because plenty of other modules just use a single nav fix point enroute. But I think he mentioned why: you're not sure you're going to be able to see the fix point, so have a few for redundancy? And I think you want to do it early, on the inbound steerpoints , and not around the target site, so you're not overloaded with tasks on the attack.
Not having EGI ON is (obviously :P ) more interesting, as it requires more of the crew - But under what scenarios, for the last 30 years, would a no-GPS scenario be relevant? Or is that GPS assist function quite new? (newer than I imagine?)
@@auqanova ofc, it's good to have as backup (even though I suspect jamming of GPS is much more likely than someone reaching ALL the way out to the GPS satellites to poke then :P - They are FAAAAR away).
@@Chwibon I intentionally typed 30 years to "miss" desert storm. :P Still, I am interested in an SME's take on this. And I hope we can turn off EGI in the ME for the 15. so we don't have to turn off ALL GPS in a mission to get the "old school" 15 vibe.
@@Jarlerus The Strike Eagle got EGI in the late 90s, just around Allied Force and not the entire fleet at once. That being said, a pre EGI jet has a ton of nuanced differences that you can't fully replicate like this. So this is a good way to simulate a training sortie where the real crew would practice for a no GPS environment. GPS jamming is highly localized and directional and the antenna is on the top of the aircraft so it's shielded, plus it has a ton of countermeasures for that anyway.
As much as I want to play it, as if I got time..:), Release it when its ready, Releasing it too soon you'll get a load of people "bitching about errors".
@@vikingcat794 I mean, they could at least do the spring pressure, trim and proper neutral point placement... I'll use my base software to add other effects, but still... Not much hope looking back at their other modules, but stil, no harm in asking, eh?
idk im not a fan of the ins drift shit. i dont need the game simulated that much. i get that it can be turned off in the editor but what mp servers are gonna do that because thats all i fly is mp
Wise move from Razbam to let a real pilot to do these videos. I had no interest to buy next Razbam product after AV-8B Harrier handling and abysmal incorrectly simulated systems and logic. But I knew I am going to be a sucker, and I am going to buy the MiG-23MLA, and that I would have eventually bought the F-15E as well like any fanboy have done. So I purchased yesterday this module.... Excuse me, now I go to whack my head to brickwall I have prepared long time ago for this kind event...
The in game tutorials are worthless, talking too fast, text doesn't stay on screen and half the time the controls don't respond. They really need to be redone. Thank God for community tutorials on YT
Patience. For every one of you who's gonna be okay with missing features there's gonna be 20 of others that will shout it should have been left in the oven for longer. It's always better to get a more complete product.
If it's not ready yet, why? Practice define patience, let them at least get it to a state they wanted it in first. You think people want it early, but you'll see the amount of moaning wegen they release it. ;)
Игры
I love the 50min of consistently updating the system only for the final bombs to impact a building 3 blocks away lol 48:47
I loved that too. I can hear people now, my INS was great and updated, and still missed with dumb bombs! hahahaha
"Good enough for military work."
Agreed! So much for avoiding civilian casualties. Oh and not having the 'moving map with TSD' at EA launch is just ridiculous! I have bought two of RAZBAM's modules, and those are the last two I will ever buy.
@@tonyascaso6254 I agree that this limitation is going to force me to work harder and smarter within the limits of the initial release. Do you need a WSO ?
man i can drop bombs more precisely in m2k😁
Great work, can't wait for this... really shows how much the ED Hornet and Viper modules need to improve to reach parity in terms of INS and AG Radar implementations. I'm aware they're working on it, but this is really setting the bar high. Day-one purchase for me.
Hornet and Viper do not have the high resolution radar modes that the Strike Eagle has.
@@SpecialistBR Correct, however ED's implementation is still rudimentary, and missing a lot of features that the real jets have - I'm just asking for that to be fleshed out.
Agree 100% . The Doppler Beam Sharpening in expanded modes still need a lot of work. Especially when compared with media that’s readily available to compare it with.
@@mitchelloswald6840 curious if you're aware of how hard it is to maintain the core engine such that all of these modules can compatibly fly together in the same server? Versus how much time it takes to implement just one module.
@@EbonySeraphim At some point that becomes a bit of a cop out argument. ED makes a framework for which 3rd parties would have to adhere to for a module to open in the SIM. It would be really inefficient if they constantly had to duplicate work. Multicrew for example is a thing after being made a core element to the SIM. FLIR modeling was jacked up and fixed as a general API that all modules could use. When a bunch of things need to share some very similar functions, you do the bulk of that work once, and the differences are variable. The person you're responding to is talking about a element that would be computed locally, and applies nearly equally to more than one module. Remember ED has some supposed super large single player fanbase.
It irks me that things like NCTR tables not being updated years after a module has been released. Clouds still don't block IR. It been 2 years since clouds have been synced in MP. There are still long standing bugs in the FC3 modules. Some of which were carried over from FC2 because they reuse code. Like WPs are broken in FC3 modules if you respawn without reslotting. It's been a thing for like 10 years. I'm not saying its "easy" but its not exactly super hard, because code is clearly being reused where it makes sense for the good and the bad. Having jets just be compatible in the same space it probably like 85% free.
This video - with all the additional information on system drift and the idea of getting to know the actual target is pure gold for me. I loved every single bit of it :) Thank you so much, Notso & Razbam.
The attention to detail in radar/systems modelling is incredible !! Watching this I can better understand how the real thing works.
Ah amazing that there's a setting for drift left to us players in the mission editor, also the difference between a error accumulated map and fresh PVU map was night and day. Even with not being in that 0.3 range
Brilliant stuff! Just loved this. Can't wait to be doing that work on a run in after good target study. Some pressure building to get it right. Thanks for taking the time to put that together.
Going to preorder in a day or two, very excited for this module!
Take your time. By the time it's released it will be fall or later. Just in time for Christmas! lol Of course I jest, but I wish they would just release it. If they're still working on it this late in the game, then they have come across serious issues that are keeping it from release. Not good. We shall see. I have no hope though. I bet we have the Sinai map or the new Channel map before this is released...
@@valuedhumanoid6574 Im from the future, we now have the "Channel map"
Simply amazing. The best part, the bombs being off in the end which is very realistic! Kudos. Cannot wait to try this for real!
As soon as a release date is locked in I’m buying this module! Great work, team!
no release date , its gona be random released apparently xD
might be April 12th...
@@BaxterCash highly doubt it ? what makes u say this
@@Cheiff117 Because the next DCS update date is scheduled for April 12, but there is no evidence that 15E will be released, and if we miss it, we will have to wait at least another month
@@BaxterCash It was not April 12th
Can't wait for the official release announcement!
Well I bought f-15E I am waiting I NEED İT!!!!
Soon…. ;)
2 weeks dude!
2 weeks
@@Loopyllu365 actually? I was just joking
Amazing video Notso, this helped me out alot with HRM
Great video, Notso. Very clear.
That was a fun video, thanks.
excited for this module.
That was Dope….WSO Dope!!!
Wow! I never knew this much went into making these radar maps and selecting targets! Very very cool. I’m so excited to get this I can hardly stand it! Thanks for making this. I’m sure I’ll have to watch it several times once I get the module! Thanks again🤙
Really emphasizes why the aircraft has a dedicated WSO aboard; a single pilot doing all of this alone would get very task saturated
This isn’t a cold and dark start….. 😤 can't wait to get off work and watch it still. Looking forward to getting this hen in the simair!
What an education. Thanks Notso!
This will be my Primary plane in DCS. I've been waiting for the F-15E for a long time. :)
Bugger me that’s complex stuff to learn 🤯
The only thing holding me back is if my brain can fit another airplane in its space.
Question: Since the HRM limitation is 8 degrees off the nose of the aircraft to allow enough lateral motion for the SAR to do its SA magic, can you HRM areas ahead which are at least 8 degrees below the nose? paper napkin math tells me that if you are flying level at 30,000' above the terrian, anything inside ~35 nm will be 8 degrees below the nose.
Is the Mudhen A2G radar computer smart enough to do that, or does it simply reject anything inside 8 degrees azimuth?
Nice video, please make a full startup procedure for the next vidéo
Hello ! Thank you very much for the video, unmeasurable help for understanding the radar flow. Quick question tho, is there a way to command a PVU update from the front seat ?
Looking Amazing! Two more weeks?
What are the controls for the front hotas to do what the front seat can do, or at least the mfd buttons?
You are an absolute gigachad razbam.
Thank God for the watch later folder in You Tube. No way I'll be able to remember this by Christmas when it's finally released.
Intersting video. How do you find the F15E AG radar versus Viper or Hornet one ?
Why do the points drift? Is it because of the INS drift but why doesn't the PVU Update fix that?
Darn, I wish you guys did it a few years earlier... Hopefully my interest in SAR still lingers.
Quando esce questo modulo??è da febbraio che ho pagato 55$ e ancora non è uscito
Great module! Counting the days to fly it 😃 keep going guys
14 days :D jk ;)
Thats a long counting...
@@rama7267 One day more waiting is one day less to release 🤝
@@colinrickatson6320 14 days... 14 weeks... it's the same for me, I've transcended time 🤽♂
You guys are killing me, I got some serious BVR to do, and I need my APG70 fix. Faster Funnier....
2 weeks??
nice!
NICE
This is incredible and all, but it just highlights to me the lack of a mission planner. I would prefer if some DCS missions / campaigns presented us with a desired outcome, but then let us plan our own waypoints.
My decade ago suggestion for ED was that DCS World would have a mission planning table/room.
In single player you would be above a table with the paper maps, and you could click the whole map to first get in the area, as in pre-set map grid would be. Then you would need to choose the best fit map for your purposes, as the target might be on the edge of the predefined map.
Anyways, you would have then that piece of map on table. You would have the latest intelligence reports side of the screen. Like target coordinate or other intelligence like road of column. The building, satellite photos, the recon flight pod photos. And you would place your unit symbols on the piece of map, you would draw your flight plan on the map, you would mark the targets and have the photos for it.
Then you would save the flight plan as a mission, with chosen time of day, have the proper radio frequencies, callsigns and all. Give it to the HQ that would then place all that on the strategic map overlaid with all other missions, flights and their times and progress. So you example need to know if the friendly flights are going to go near you somewhere. That way you would nicely know yourself that at 1550 time the friendly flight should be passing 50 NM of your target area, just 5 min before you. So you know that if you get something in radar or RWR at the time that it is possibly that one.
In multiplayer you would do mission planning with your wingman/WSO/ROW and flight. You would then after submitting plan, see all other players missions on the strategic map, and you would know what is going to happen. You would not be allowed to take-off without flight plan, with at least few sensible waypoints and sensible flight time in the area, with proper callsign, frequency and all. So you can't just take-off and randomly head to some direction and try to just kill someone randomly.
With proper AI, you would need to get AI accept your mission, so it will not allow conflicting missions on same target area, issue warnings if there is conflict of operation area, there is no enough ingelligence information (AI overflied recon flights) and so on. And AI would automatically generate proper missions like that with all the information, so in quick missions you could just jump in, check the available missions or on-going missions by AI, and jump either in plane that AI is currently flying or accept pre-done missions and jump in time of its start, while whole world is dynamically evolving around you. Like in Falcon or Enemy Engaged simulators.
yepper this all is explained so janky as well. not a fan of the ins drift either. im not flying for real life. its a game. but ya the mission planner is lacking big time
i have a feeling the F-15E will have more Keybinds then the A10C II
Did the f-15E have different blocks\ Upgrades like the f-16?
If so, do we know what version this is ?
These are called Suites. The modeled version is Suite 4+
Will ALG mode be included at some point?
This is the Matrix, a Synthetic aperture radar simulation inside a flight sim
Just like the F16 it looks real 😎
Just like the F-16 ?
This is far beyong any kind of simulation the F-16 has
It's amazing, for everyone saying it needs to be released soon you will complain that it's in an incredibly unfinished state. Let them do there work so yall can complain less. Yall have no idea how hard this it to do.
Wait, so was the drift amplified in this example video? Or is this the normal amount of drift with EGI off?
Yes. Drift was set to be extra high/fast. For education purposes. IRL you get the much less drift, like about 1 NM per hour (or what it is in reality). So when you come to final leg, your designation doesn't really move anymore because drifting would be so negligent.
Why did you lase the target?
These videos are good, but it's only making the wait worse. I had no idea it was going to take so long to release when I preordered. I am not watching any more until I get it downloaded. I won't remember a thing by the time it's released. I have them all bookmarked so I can come back and get a refresher.
When coming outtt
Does the radar genuinely model to the degree that it detects reflections from 3D objects, or is it designed to create the illusion of doing so?
Yes. Adding secondary reflections is also experimented.
I'm more concerned about DCS running correctly, m.t. ect. making progress, much less modules anymore, but it's nice to have more clickable aircraft!
Now real question is, target engage with JDAM trought cloud aimed with radar is BoC or BoT ?
Thank you sir, thats so freaking interresting! so much to learn ;) one (maybe a little dumb) question is comming up for me, how do I manage all these stuff as a single player?
You can access all this from the front seat! Having a WSO will only make the tasks easier with workload
Sorry for what's probably a stupid question, but what exactly is the point of the steerpoint offsets?
Why not directly/only use the target offset points to correct for drift?
Your videos are gold by the way Notso. Many thanks!
I was wondering that too, because plenty of other modules just use a single nav fix point enroute. But I think he mentioned why: you're not sure you're going to be able to see the fix point, so have a few for redundancy? And I think you want to do it early, on the inbound steerpoints , and not around the target site, so you're not overloaded with tasks on the attack.
@Inf yes indeed
I also asked on the DCS forum and the guys over there said the same 😊
@@Sirrah81 ah good, glad we're both sorted out :)
Not having EGI ON is (obviously :P ) more interesting, as it requires more of the crew - But under what scenarios, for the last 30 years, would a no-GPS scenario be relevant?
Or is that GPS assist function quite new? (newer than I imagine?)
Desert Storm was pre-GPS when it comes to the F-15E.
I mean if someone starts taking down satellites you might need some backups to function without GPS.
@@auqanova ofc, it's good to have as backup (even though I suspect jamming of GPS is much more likely than someone reaching ALL the way out to the GPS satellites to poke then :P - They are FAAAAR away).
@@Chwibon I intentionally typed 30 years to "miss" desert storm. :P
Still, I am interested in an SME's take on this.
And I hope we can turn off EGI in the ME for the 15. so we don't have to turn off ALL GPS in a mission to get the "old school" 15 vibe.
@@Jarlerus The Strike Eagle got EGI in the late 90s, just around Allied Force and not the entire fleet at once. That being said, a pre EGI jet has a ton of nuanced differences that you can't fully replicate like this. So this is a good way to simulate a training sortie where the real crew would practice for a no GPS environment. GPS jamming is highly localized and directional and the antenna is on the top of the aircraft so it's shielded, plus it has a ton of countermeasures for that anyway.
Is there any estimated release date at this point? Can't wait to hop in this thing!
2023
Q4 2024
two weeks /s
was released a few months ago, where you been??
You guys are awful haha
RIP 😢
This one is for the WSO
Is it just me or is the "North up" arrow point wrong the whole time?
it appears off to me as well
i was gonna say it looks off by 180 lol
Fixed now ;)
@@Chwibon glad to hear I wasn't hallucinating. Figured better to point out now in case it wasn't caught
how much longer to wait?
two weeks
As much as I want to play it, as if I got time..:), Release it when its ready, Releasing it too soon you'll get a load of people "bitching about errors".
we expect this module to be release on December hahah
F15E will get aim 120d?
not likely.
120Ds are still classified.
Release already big bio it’s a glass cockpit u said in a interview it’s all the same for glass planes just copy and paste jk looking good so far
When’s it coming out
2 weeks
Any FFB effects planned?
🤣
@@vikingcat794 I mean, they could at least do the spring pressure, trim and proper neutral point placement... I'll use my base software to add other effects, but still...
Not much hope looking back at their other modules, but stil, no harm in asking, eh?
idk im not a fan of the ins drift shit. i dont need the game simulated that much. i get that it can be turned off in the editor but what mp servers are gonna do that because thats all i fly is mp
You can set the mode to GPS in the jet. You can see when he goes into the UFC when he jumps in the jet he's switching of the EGI mode
@@oppotato5440 ya i guess im just confused is all it all seems like alot in a video need to tinker myself with it
For the real thing did y’all ever use the TGP pod to spy on people when flying a route? I would 100% do that if aloud.
Wise move from Razbam to let a real pilot to do these videos. I had no interest to buy next Razbam product after AV-8B Harrier handling and abysmal incorrectly simulated systems and logic. But I knew I am going to be a sucker, and I am going to buy the MiG-23MLA, and that I would have eventually bought the F-15E as well like any fanboy have done.
So I purchased yesterday this module....
Excuse me, now I go to whack my head to brickwall I have prepared long time ago for this kind event...
Why are you deleting critcal comments lol?
Notso accurate 😂
😁
The in game tutorials are worthless, talking too fast, text doesn't stay on screen and half the time the controls don't respond. They really need to be redone. Thank God for community tutorials on YT
gimme
29:56 - 31:24 240p to 4K
mig-23
I think if the dev team works at the same pace as this guy. I can see why it's taken 10 years to make the 15 😂😂😂
I'm disappointed with the way razbam is treating the community
In what way?
I do not like such modules, sitting with one ass in two cabs, this is not natural.
Guys its enough pls just release it ....
Patience. For every one of you who's gonna be okay with missing features there's gonna be 20 of others that will shout it should have been left in the oven for longer. It's always better to get a more complete product.
You raised the hype and then you butchered it. Thats why they call it the mudhen.
😂
How did they butcher it lol, what are you talking about
@@oppotato5440 the bombs missing their target at the end anyways by like 3 miles
@@GorbZZ thats the beauty of it, it isnt perfect. dumb bombs from 20000
@@GorbZZ have you ever tried CCRP bombing with dumb bombs? If you have you would already know. You should give it a try, it is really hard.
dont post videos post the freakin module
You mean release the module
@@mauricefuchs7921 thx maurice
If it's not ready yet, why? Practice define patience, let them at least get it to a state they wanted it in first.
You think people want it early, but you'll see the amount of moaning wegen they release it. ;)
@@tomaszwota1465 b
Because we paid for it nearly 3 months ago.....
@@ianhaffenden8536 No one forced you to do that! You'd pay like what, 7 bucks more if you bought it with 20% off on launch? ^^
Just release the damn jet already
FUMBLE ON MARKETING