Order Faction Review (ALL ORDER INDEX) - Warhammer Weekly 07102024
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- Опубликовано: 28 июл 2024
- Join us for another week of news, rumors and all things Warhammering! The time has finally come - all of the scrolls from the index for Order are here - and we go through ALL of them!
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0:00 Intro
15:00 Cites
1:45:00 DoK
2:25:00 Fyreslayers
3:01:50 IDK
3:33:00 KO
4:01:30 LRL
4:45:00 Seraphon
5:10:10 SCE
5:50:50 Sylvaneth 
Игры
If it’s Thursday I’m making breakfast and hitting like. And wondering what the heck has been going on for over 6 hours.
It goes perfectly with coffee
I couldn't believe when I woke up and saw the number of hours :) will take time to digest!
And the HeyWoah BIG award for 2024's longest WW video goes to...
Six hours! Medals are needed. And I have a whole afternoon’s painting and listening beckoning! Thanks for all you do.😊
You guys are troopers. A well deserved good night sleep ahead ! Thank you for the show !
Our pleasure!
rough time stamps for armies:
cities - 0:15:06
DoK - 1:45:19
Short?! - 2:24:55
Idk - 3:02:35
KO - 3:33:00
LRL - 4:01:35
Seraphon - 4:46:00
Sc - 5:10:18
Sylv - 5:50:55
It should be timestamped now (its in the description, RUclips didn't auto pick it up when I dropped it in last night). :)
@@VinceVenturella Ah makes sense! I'll still leave the comment up for the algorythm.
Watching this the day after, and knowing it's a 6+ hour stream going in, and hearing Tom in the beginning say "we'll run out of time"
Priceless
The Knight-Vexillor might be in everyone of my lists...
A bonus hero, cheap, heals (yeah I agree this is whatever who cares), but gives 3 units (himself included) +3 control! Hes 5 control himself. He alone can bully people off of objectives. Throw in some vanquishers and things and suddenly that objective is your until end of time.
Spamming heals is useful for clearing Burning, Infected, and so on
"It would be insane if they got kruleboyz abilities" "yeah only the good armies get that stuff"
I'm getting whiplash after playing them for 2 years.
Before watching: Wooooow! Over 6 hours! And without Tyler, even. You are truly dedicated to the game and the fans.
The only thing I didn't like about Sylvaneth, unless I missed it mentioned elsewhere, is that you have to buy the trees kit where last edition they added the overgrown terrain rule so you didn't have to bring 3-4 tree terrains with you.
To be fair you can now place each tree individually so 1 box is enough
insert sheer dedication GIF. Impressive. I'll win at least 3 painting session ambiance with this one ! Great value :p
Vince and Tom are men of focus, commitment and sheer will. I once saw them dissect three battletomes with just a pencil!
5:24:30 What you say about what a scroll used to be being literally irrelevant cannot be overstated imo. People need to hear that and get it in their heads. All the whining about nerfs etc is so tiresome. Epic stream, Vince. Appreciate all the time you and your friends put in
I am so glad nobody suggested a "porcupine" drinking game beforehand. I would be dead by now.
Regarding the army building: Having regiments that can select any unit from the army is big. But I feel having access to a couple bonus heroes is even bigger. A whole bunch of small support heroes won't be taken simply because they lack that benefit. My Battlesmith, Auric Flamekeeper and Branchwych will sit on the shelves, staring enviously at all the minor KO heroes...
Cities Apartheid style regiments has me struggling to make a 2k list with my collection
Just under 6.5 hours is a FEAT. Thank you gentlemen, truly your work is difficult and appreciated
If order is 6.5 hours God help us for Chaos with Skaven AND Slaanesh in one show. (Looking forward to it!)
Teclis autocasting 4 manifestations from the Lore of Morbidity on 10's is pretty awesome.
Things that happened:
+Vince claims show will be done in 4 hours tops and immediately initial D drifts into a tangent.
+Vince finds god and his name is Runel Ord.
+Stonks
+We dem bois.
+Dip purchased
+"Where are you living on this, Tom?"
+Miniatures reffered to "a group of idiots."
+Vince and Tom nearly come to blows over rules minutiae.
+Idoneth Don't Kare.
+Tom waxes poetic on short kings as he should.
+Kroak is still autoad include.
+ "WEAPONS FREE ON THE PORCUPINE."
+Vince bags on old dumb models.
+Rap quote
+ B A S T I O N C H A D T H A L O S
+Heywhoa is BIG in chat.
+ "Attack the trees".
+Belthanos aka, Jimminy Charge-it.
+Vince and Tom are rendered speechless by a terrible tree.
Started listening to Vince during my morning workout and continued when at work. i still had to skip several armies and just listened to the armies i play or interested in. As typical with most new books i get to hear Vince say trash and pass to units i really like and own. Not super motivated to play my SCE right now lol. OH well maybe after a few balance passes.
Doing my Thursday routine of turning on the fantastic Warhammer Weekly. This is gonna be a good one
Start work, wonder what I will listen to today. Realise its Thursday and think I will have a 2 hour Vince show. Nope 6 hours drop! Hell Yeah!
I appreciated the blunt honesty of these reviews even though it was mostly a timing issue XD. Also, it feels like GW should raise the bar on heroes who can join regiments.
So hear me out on the Bannerblade, you give him Silverwand and the Redeploy is always at least 4 Aura, then you throw him in the Shrine Luminor and bam, you have an 18” aura of +3OC measuring from the shrine, a 12” redeploy aura measuring from the shrine, and you cast your protection 5+++ bubble as your Re-Rollable once per turn from atop the the massive shrine as well. A million style points and very functional!
50% of my hobby is listbuilding, and what i dislike about Sylvaneth is that you basically need alarielle, belthanos and perhaps LoV to start an army. So you’re choosing between couple of treemen, couple of kurnoth or couple of bug riders.
I think they’ll work ok, they are just not fun brewing with.
Really cool listening to all your takes with 20 games in!😊
My listening for most of today sorted 👌
I thought the same
Great job yet again! I love that you have the same disdain for Fyreslayers that I have.
I’m gonna defend my knight judicator here. Unless I’m mistaken he can go 1+ 2+ 2r 3Dam if he hits into a unit that has been marked by vigilors, or at the very least guarantee his 2+ 2+. His ability with the gryph hounds and his synergy with the vigilors make him a fantastic hero killer. Give him a mirror shield and he can’t be shot off. His gryph hounds can screen charges and just to be sure you give him an honour guard of praetors.
Also gonna defend my knight arcanum. +1 on summon, put her on a dais arcanum and star fall everything. If you have 2, the second one can either nuke or tornado.
6h
God Damn!
Is this the Stormkeep?
The stamina you both have is immense. Thanks so much. Really interesting episode.
Aspect of the storm, heroic trait that means hits of 1,2,3 miss and just end the sequence for those dice.
Then the armor of no combat abilities on weapon affect him.
A 3+ save and 5+ ward.
It may be one of the toughest hammers in the game.
And because of the Retreat and Charge Option you get the charge Bonus every turn (inkl. 10“ movement). Fast, spikey, tough killer
It's a good point, maybe I am underrating him. He could actually be a good anvil/catch unit. I hadn't thought about the full combination.
@VinceVenturella plus you can teleport him in the enemies back lines
Deeply appreciate all the work here, and enjoyed listening! I will say, though, for someone who purports to be a Timmy, all I heard this entire episode was straight, unadulterated Spike from you.
These reviews are often more Spike Johnny focused, but don’t worry, we will go deep with Timmy as we dive deeper into
Arent Riverblades the best unit in the game? They have, teleport, enemy cant coutercharge, rerolling charges, 2d6 pile in and immortal screening. Sounds really good.
Great analysis
I also love all the comparisons between AoS3 and 4. AoS 1-3 is like a base RTS and 2 expansions while AoS4 is the sequel game. Sure they share unit-names (and models since this is a physical game) but that is it. I have never heard anyone compare Zerglings, Marines, Zealots etc between SCBW and SC2 in any serious way. Sure they exist, but they are 2 vastly different games
One thing about the Knight-Vexillor that wasnt mentionned and is imo a game breaker is the amount of control he can have on an objective. I agree the heal is meh but it's all about the control it gives to units. You can possibly give 3 units + 3 control score. Just think about this, he has 5 control, this gives him 3, heroic trait staunch defender gives him another 3 for a total of 11 control points. He outnumbers beasts. In this edition with objectives being small, I feel this is being overlooked a lot about SCE
Vandus Hammerhand has a similar ability for warrior chamber if I recall (obviously he can't take the heroic trait, but just pull off a similar trick on another objective simultaneously while Knight-Vexillor does this on objective 1)
Knight Vexillor is a great include for 120. He’s 8 OC! Did y’all clock that? And heals himself to survive on that objective he’s sat on. I’m calling value. And Vince to change his mind 😮
Yeah I really have to wonder about anyone saying that's useless. Can heal himself, make himself oc 8 and up the OC of two other things. With objectives being smaller, that's going to be really huge.
5:21:48 : just watched the Stormkeep podcast. They almost that the Vexillor is a must : Add 3 to the control to D3 is absolutely amazing. You could have only 1 person on 1 unit and have a OC of 4 and he can even target himself to an 8 and even another + 3 with the Stauch Defender for a whopping 11 just for him. He is perfect for control and Stormcasts are really a control army. Not my words
I commend you for your optimism on Sylvaneth, but the army simply does not have rules. Since you only start with one Wyldwood at the start (which can be destroyed), if you get even a little unlucky, your opponent unbinds it or you don't have enough wizards, you do not have faction abilities for the first turn. As these problems persist, its likely you just won't have your other two spells, half your abilities on Warscrolls and even some one of the heroic traits. I'm with Rob on this one - playing Sylvaneth is going to be an exercise in penance. Maybe Belthanos with only Bugs and straight up ignoring all your rules and going unga bunga is a way to play them, but realistically, I don't see anything there.
Idoneth are fine, and about what I expected. The Soulscryer having its day in the sun is wonderful, but I am a bit sad that the wrecking ball that the Akhelian King was is no longer. Probably a very fair army to play and play against, so I am looking forward to that. I am also regretting selling my Lumineth some years ago now.
Thanks for this show! It must have been quite the effort to keep going for six and a half hours!
Galen Ven Denst can take any human infantry in his regiment, Dorelia is mandatory, but he can take up to 2 others as well.
some thoughts that differ from yours that I gathered on the web:
- troglodon is mb interesting and can be surprisingly tanky.
- engine of the gods has a lot of potential even just for the heals
- carno is too pricey
- ppl seem to prefer the first seraphon spell lore
- crit auto wound from starpriest isnt that high value because a lot of our stuff wounds on 2+ or 3+.
also the stormkeep thinks the vexilor is S tier because of the buff to control and his 5 control, imperatant too because of how they make charges easier (they wanna take 2) and they also really like the drakestorm cause of his high damage
I am sure there is some different opinions, my biggest issue with a lot of that is that is all pushing drops up, and that matters.
A lot of really interesting Seraphon units got "Nope'd" immediately. Ripperdacytls and Chargers look especially interesting for us
can anyone recommend a good pdf viewer to actually scroll these massive tomes? the standard chrome extension cant seem to handle anything longer than 10 pages.
I fell asleep right as this started and woke up while it was still live, because I have to work early
Impressive and I am really looking forward to watching the full video now!
2:11:10 Now all we need is a Hobby Cheating video "How to paint gorgeous Doomfire Warlocks" 😁
I painted for 6 hours and listened to this. Thank you!
6 hours?!…
Internet medal of the month 🥇
But you chaptered it out for us… and we appreciate 🙌🏻
After reading the rules, playing with them, and trying to write lists, I can't help but be worried that the health of the game might suffer a bit. It's great that each warscroll was looked at, but from what I've seen online, the best strategy seems to be spam the same units and cram into a two drop, or, be Slaves to Darkness. They feel wildly more powerful than almost every army.
The skeleton of the edition feels good, but spam just seems the best.
And trust me, I hope I am so totally wrong.
People will try a bunch of spam in the beginning, its the easiest take, you don't need to actually think about list construction. But I don't see it as the strat long term, 20+ games in, it's very rare that spam is the right answer.
I hope some of the Stormcast characters that are staying will be getting a glow up. Eg Lord Relictor
Y’all went crazy with this run time.
Drakespawn Knights are a pretty good kit imo, but they do look very aged next to modern AoS stuff and I hope they get a cool glow-up when Umbraneth eventually come out. The picture they have on the warscroll is probably the worst Drakespawn Knight I've ever seen.
He looks like he's wearing one of those "your legs are a horse" Halloween costumes.
Vince trash-talking Battlemage on Griffon but he looks pretty sweet compared to my Shaggoth who's at almost the same cost... 😭
My condolences for boc
Palladors are amazing. Great last edition even better this one
but vince , have you considered the academic army in CoS? +2 cast on lightining on 18 wizards , getting a nice 1980 list that is a great (dumbdumb) way to feel like a sith lord ?
Interesting that you kind of liked Vandus.... Bastian is already giving you +1 to hit for free wherever you want it. The Knight-Vexilor also had 3 to control scores withing 12"... it's not just the incidental heal. The control score bonus for a cheap extra hero seems pretty amazing. Especially in a infantry heavy anvil type list
Also, durthu needs the TARGET to be within 3" of a wyldwood. Not him. You have to ask your opponent really nicely if they'll grant you +1 to hit.
I love Vince’s take on the dark sorc on foot. It made me spit out my coffee
I wanna come back to iterate just how bad the Twistweald from Shlvaneth is. Their charge reduction ability not only requires you to jump through hoops to use, but can only be used on your opponents charge phase AFTER they already charged. Yes, the whole unit is garbage.
I’m ready for this. 0:13
second watch, put it on last night before bed, woke up to find it still going.
Great content! I love your content and all your great work. Just in case C&C is welcome, Vince, careful not to steamroll your co-host too much. A little is just friendship, but sometimes the conversation is aborted prematurely. (Then again, maybe I'm jumping to conclusions by responding to hour 5?)
That's just Tom and I getting punchy when tired, but yes, I will watch it.
The covering of the "secret meeting" in Potsdam was very poor. The infiltrators had to step down from most accusations they did. They also withhold the informations until the afd had risen in popularity. Even most members of that meeting weren't even from the afd but from the cdu.
Whoa, I was waiting for SCE yesterday but needed to go to sleep. 6 hours! Absolute legends!
y'all put in overtime this week.
Wooo! I love a WW long show ❤
Hey Vince,
My thoughts on this and I’m happy to stand corrected but seraphon got put in the bin. I understand they’ve been in a strong place for a long time and each book tones them down further but it felt like the death sentence for its style of play.
What happened to comets call should be a war crime changing to Stella tempest (extreme I know but I loved it) Rules like cleanse the realms or scaly skin while to strong for the new addition why not tone them down instead of removing completely? The DNA is falling apart and running lancers & Krox with some buffs just feels like some destruction army in my opinion which is a nice change at the cost of everything else.
So many misses from Salamander with his 1 shot on a 4 to the spearhead Saurus being better than the real ones 😂 I know it’s shouting into the wind especially with GW but yeah it’s a shame
I’ll still make them work I’m sure they’ll alright but yeah let’s see.
Thank for all you hard work! Naturally non of this is aimed at you but more for discussion
Unit coherency thing.. feel the pain of original Shining Company for LRL!
Feeding the algorithm, thank you for what you do!
Can't believe, we made it. :D
Marathon of awesomeness.
Amazing video. Made me so happy to listen to it while walking. Greatest night ever. I love you guys.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I've taken to calling the +1 heroes hanger ons.
Silly question but can you stack orders for cities? The heroes can only use one per turn but can the units receive more than one? It is not a core ability and is not s passive so it eould seem yes. But i could be missing something.
Yep, you can.
for the IDK section:
quick question. If you set up a unit of Reavers in the eathersea, and they pop out and go back into the eathersea every turn because of Soul-Raid Ambushers, do they get destroyed at round 4's beginning? I mean, they WERE set up in reserve using a deploy ability, and at the beginning of 4 they are STILL in reserve...
3:18:50 uhhh, more like 8 models into 2 units with some luck and the right Battle Formation...something to note for the soulrender, if they are in the Isharann BF they will literally never miss their rez because it's on a 2+ (unless I have a rule wrong). As long as there's another isharann by them, they'll be bringing back at least 2 namarti to a unit, max 12 namarti across 3 units! (now if only Namarti weren't paper and at risk of losing the entire unit in a turn...Turtle time!) Am I wrong? seems crazy. too good to be true, actually.
with Ishlean, can the enemy be targeted with the bivoltaic barrier by more than one unit? I know they can't be affected by it more than once, but can I whiff the first one and try again with the second?
This is clearly some sort of magnum opus you've done here.
'So at 30 minutes an army that'll be 4 and a half hours'... then immediately taking an hour and a half for Cities. Classic
5:44:23 I don't understand why they wouldn't ignore both effects of guarded hero? It even says effects (plural).
The Shrine Luminor is so confusing to me. If I put the Twins on top - can I shoot and fight normally? Can I charge (really?)? What if the Twins killed somebody and want to teleport? Will they teleport with the Shrine? Or they can leave the Shrine using this ability? There's nothing about "it's the only way to exit the Shrine" in the text of Exit the Shrine ability. Also, Entering and Exiting are both in Hero Phase, so I could Enter the Shrine, then Exit the Shrine and gain extra range for casting my spells.
Branch wych has a place in my none monster mash syvaneth giving out 3up fight fight first behind sycthes is just a nasty porcupine in opponents turns
What I would say is this: herculean effort boys 😂
1:41:52 think that’s the first sculpt take Vince is just 1000% wrong on.
I'm surprised you just skipped over the branchwycht Vince after talking about how useful porcupines are in the game now. She combines really well with scythe kurnoth to make the army's best porcupine. I mean you get those bad boys to rend 3 strikes first, pretty sure they're going to clobber anything that charges them that they get to hit first.
It concerns me how often Vince comments negatively on ranged units "only" having 15" range...*looks at his eternal conflag army with a range of 12" now*😢
Also the amount of nopes we had kind of shows how much balance is going to need to be done, hopefully they're fast and responsive when it comes to making changes so that we can get most units having a place.
If I could hit like 6 times I would! 6 hrs. Let’s go!!!!
You can give the scythe kurnoth strike first with the branchwych for a decent anvil.
I've been calling heroes that can slide into other regiments "third wheels"
Got to respect the dedication on display in this video! Tha KS Vince and Tom.
So the average turn length of your games? Do BTs feel same-y?
It's varied, I have had some close games that go to 5, but most of the time, but bottom of 3 its decided against the strong armies.
That's not unexpected but still a bit of a shame. Thanks again for your candor (and this marathon of a review)
5:10:05 was really hoping for monster mash to be good. 😢
Hi Vince you said you run sentinels of the bleak citadels but just wondered what units you run with it please? I was thinking reclusians are actually quite cheap with Craig mortals in groups of 6?
I think that is right yes, I think it will get stronger as we get the book and potentially more models.
Can we just let DoK players have rules for the 40k avatar of khaine model? I feel like the current model would work in an AoS setting and they need it.
The whole this hero isn't worth a drop thing the shelf is your home now, is going to get super stale super quick this edition.
I hope than when army book start dropping they add some conditions to add heroes
but in general I would make detachment list building
Choose a hero - choose up to 4 units and one support hero (the hero doesnt count for the 4 units)
Or just don't plan to go first
Tom got quieter at some point. Did he bump his mic enough times to push it too far away?
Stormbringer contents:
-Dominion models: Oh No
-Underworlds models: Oh No
-KO models: Oh No
-Sylvaneth models: Oh No
-Aleguzzler Gargant: Oh No
Don't know if this got mentioned but allarielle doesn't heal 3 from awakened wyldwoods because her base size is too big. Need to be wholly within 6 in and her base size is 6.3.
She can stand over part of it, its unstable, so she can overlap the little extendy bits.
@@VinceVenturella I stand corrected! Great point I didn't catch the 1 inch rule on unstable.
I'm starting this around lunch time and I don't think I'll finish it before my D&D game starts tonight...
update: I took a break for workout and dinner, made it barely through Seraphon before D&D.
Question about the Shrine Luminor. Will Bladelords 5+ Ward work if Scinari is on top of the Shrine?
Should work, it's just the hero.
So what’s up with the dwarf units being pulled from the web store? Are the dispossessed getting pulled when the tome comes out?
They’re in old world - you have to assume they’re getting squatted in AOS.
@@seagon_88 Because we can't have same sets in two settings based on the BoC cancelation logic. Such a stupid fokin reasoning by GW
But the rules are in the Index. Very strange. And there’s a lot of Duardin references in the rules. You’d think if GW was pulling them, they’d have done it at the same time they pulled Beastmen.
Combine branch wych with Hunters with scythes 🙂
DoK Cauldron of Blood's other bonus is none of the weapons are tagged Companion so they all get boosted
Loved the discussion this week! Will you be doing Chaos next week, and will it be at the normal time? I really want to join the conversation.
Specifically I hope you'll take a look at a specific rules interaction with Tzeentch Blues and Brims. Rule 22 pg. 24 states that returned or added models must be set up within coherency *of units not returned or added this turn*.
If I am understanding this rule correctly, this is a mess to follow during gameplay. You have to track which models were specifically set up each turn. With multiple units that can have models added during nearly every phase, that's a lot of book keeping. It probably applies to more than just Tzeentch, but Horrors in particular will be, well, Horror-able to manage.
Yes, Chaos is this week and we will be starting early!
As a person living in Europe this is music to my ears
Awesome video!👍
Thank you! 👍
I lost interest in Cities of Sigmar once I realized it was basically becoming a human faction. I wouldn't be surprised if their 4th Ed battletome drops all non-human options completely, and the fluff turns them into the AoS equivalent of 40K's Imperium. All the signs are there I think.
FYI you cannot return half of a Stormdrake guard unit with heavensent. It is Cavalry only and they are Monster
Yep, we caught that a few minutes later. :)
nice and short episode. i think i will hit like for this.
Really good podcast episode. I had a question, I'm just getting into AOS this edition, and wanted to see how gitz are looking from your guys perspective. Do they look good enough to hang with everyone else? Any stand out units? I just want to make sure whatever army I decide to go with is solid, I got into admech at the start of 10th, and while I love them I don't want to accidentally get a terrible army again starting into aos
We will hit destruction in 2 weeks, but short answer, Gitz looks fun and fair and honestly pretty great.