Apologies to everyone for the issues with my connection, I hope it wasn't too bad. Place I'm at for vacation has really choppy internet. I appreciate everyone for listening, and, once more, many thanks to Vince for having me on, it is always a pleasure, sir 🙏
Try turning off video. When I’m in a zoom class with 40 people and we have to turn on video we may as well be using smoke signals. Turning off video means more bandwidth for audio. Great video!!
I hate that we can't ally in slaves into DOT anymore, I got so many models I now can field two armies. But some very good and interesting points that made me less unhappy with 4th. Pet your cute dogs for me!
Ogroid Thaumaturge should have been in StD. Swap the Mutalith Best for it. That way you could run a proper Ogroid army with the Thaumaturge your wizard hero, Myrmidon your fighty hero and Theridons your core infantry (and your ungor models as darkoath marauders...)
@3:26:00 The hidden awsome sauce with stormfiends is the timing of any movement phase. You can jump up in the opponents turn and then move charge in their own, insane
Quick thing on turning off the beast ability. Belladamma Volga in Soulblight turns off the beast ability for dire wolves. Just wanted to give y’all a quick heads up on that one
Played against StD the other day with Ironjawz and I got smashed by turn two. The amount of crit mortals in that army is crazy, even with a ward I could not stop the silly amount they can pump out.
After the inital doom and gloom about tzeentch it's really nice to hear your take. Taking the project back up. Would you mind sharing the list you played? Also Skyfires deal ~6dmg on average into a 4+ save with no ward. With all out attack it goes to ~8, but with countershoot you double the damage to ~12 where it might be worth the 340pts?
Going to run an Arch Warlock and 13 doomwheels - I'll probably win nothing, but I've wanted to run all doomwheels since I started skaven. May the great horned rat bless me
I hate that Bloodthirsters can't take mortals in their regiments. I think they're the only greater daemons that are restricted like that. Why even make a mixed mortal/daemon subfaction when you disincentivize it at every turn?
Cause that makes no sense? The points are also factored around that. Take a bthirster and demons then a priest or whatever n mortals. If you got 3 bthirsts you are playing demons.
As always, thank you Vince for all you do for our hobby! Great show and always good takes on the units....bumber on the chickens 🐔 😢. Here's to hope the book corrects it.
If, by chicken, you mean the Lord of Change, we have vastly underestimated the unit, friend, it's an incredible piece and it's already winning games and tournaments. All good 😁
3:44:00 I'm one of those people experimenting with 3x monks and the pestilens subfaction and I think you're underestimating how much it lets you deny BTs and pin their hammers down when combined with 3 clawsteps. If they go first turn one, a combination of 3 clawsteps and end of turn pile ins makes it easy to deny their seize the center/take the flanks without before spending the CP to counter charge. Meanwhile, if you go first you can score which ever's better and on the following turn position use warpseer's -to charge + potentially redeploy backwards to make it difficult for them to land a charge with a hammer, then pin said hammer after combat. And when they do manage do finally make it to your screens and a couple models survive a combat, the ability to retreat them then pile back in, thus skipping that combat, means you often force your opponents to spend multiple rounds pinned to your chaff while the other 1600ish points of your army is able to do whatever they want. At the end of the day, there's so many little things that you can do with them to effectively skip a combat that you don't want while still keeping their units pinned.
I am looking forward to feedback! I hope I am wrong and we have 4 full viable factions, I do think if they had more units/variability, it would be a completely different situation.
I was looking forward to your takes on S2D, they seem like such a split army. You have the heavy metal immovable army and the savage horde of barbarians. I dont think they mix incredibly well but some things are better for one side than the other. The 8-Fold Doom Sigil synergizes with the Wilderbeast and the hordes of Darkoath dying and then recurring with their specific formation. Im really sad Despoilers arent a better choice, me and my Demon Princes are still gonna run around and cause chaos tho! As always tho, it was a great vid Vince! Appreciate your insight on things
2:49:55 I like the take “your sub faction only affects half your army”. Meanwhile; stormcasts sub faction only affects a single unit once in one faze. 😅 But I really like the look of skaven, my other chaos army S2D look a bit pricey, hard to build non varanguard lists
1:57:48 we were having a discussion about how does the gravetide works. The ability does not say that it has to end outside of combat but the fly keyword does so anytime you make that move ability you would have to move over the models and then finish the move outside the combat range. It’s a mess I hope they clarify these things soon. Because it seems that the pendulum just don’t work
Did you actually read the lord of change warscroll? -1 to hit within 12", a really good spell on a 7 (sure no bonuses) and the ability to bring back a unit at half strength is pretty damn good for the points. I think it is either a lord of change or Kairos but they are different kinds of lists.
I feel he’d be amazing, in another army. Tzeentch is a magic casting army and wants magic casters and has access to great spellcasters. His bonuses are to being a fighty, bashy army, so he doesn’t really do anything too great that fits Tzeentch play style. I think it’s a great warscrolls, just not for Tzeentch. In any other army, a giant -1 hit bubble, double cashing recursion piece might be great, but I don’t think Tzeentch generally wants any of that…
Like the other guy said-you want magic in a magic army. The scroll is actually good, but not when your army focus isn’t dedicated pure close combat and carnage.
Yes. I was on the fence, but I think I'll play him a decent amount. He allows you to get a second regiment with 2 wizards so you can have 4 on a 2 drop. That's worth something... Cheapest 2 caster is the Changeling at 160, and he is unique so you still need a 2 cast wizard platform for enhancements, and the LoC is the biggest base for illusionist, so that's worth some points. Then he gets a 12" aura of -1 to hit... That's worth something... Then he he is targetable by shooting but has a much better profile than a small wizard, tanker, better melee, better shooting, faster.... Overall I think he comes out ahead, so that's worth something.... Then he can recycle your demon units for basically free with the 1s and 2s you roll for destiny dice. That's worth something.... He's got a decent war scroll spell. That's worth something... He has a control score of 5. That's worth something.... Overall, I think he has a place in a lot of lists, as long as you play some demons. Not if you're spamming Tzaangors...
where do you get these people to and have the time to do all of this knowledge acquisition damn 😮 this is some legit ass work ethics at play! Kudos to you, dude ⚡
Hey Vince. Played my first game of 4th with the blades of Khorne. The new points are out of control. Skarbrand goes up 200 points! Blood thirsters went up half there points. Even the bad units you pointed out you can’t even just throw them in because their points are to high. I thought GW was a miniature figure company, but they are making you play with less and less figures! Enjoyed the show! I have to watch it again to figure out the 5 war scrolls worth playing with.😂
Haven’t gotten the chance to play BoK but I feel your pain even in list building. I feel like they need about a 5-10 reduction across the board and maybe more on the BTs. But I think they were playing it safe because of the reign of terror that Khorne has been on for the last year and a half.
I have played against Khorne a few times, their points are correct. THey are quite strong, I would say they are pretty easily the strongest chaos army. :)
@@VinceVenturella I guess I say they’re still a little overcosted after playing against SBGL vampire spam. Bloodknights at 230 vs. skullreapers at 220 does not seem right with the amount of easy buffs, healing, and damage bloodknights are putting out with a huge engagement range + power through. Now that might be more of bloodknights being ridiculously undercosted and not the other way around.
Thank you Vince, I was looking forward to have some reviews of Tzeentch, my fellow Tzeentch players are mostly sour and complaining about the change, I came to most of the same conclusion than you however I just started playing 4th and don’t have a lot of games under my belly.
I am aware of this, but its clearly an unintended rule interaction they will likely FAQ away, as it makes certain endless spells literlly unsable. In short, its a mistake I expect to be changed.
Seeing you go through all these armies, I thought the following: It seems that the designers were overly cautious when they wrote the pitched battle profiles for heroes in the new edition. There are so many small to medium heroes that should cost less and/or be bonus heroes. At least this kind of problem can be fixed with battle scrolls. Or at the very least with the next GHB. And once there are more small heroes around, Anti-Hero becomes more meaningful. Win-win.
The trouble with Pestilens/prayer lore is our priests, we have I think 2 left, verminlord corrupter and the furnace, both of which are nearly a quarter of a whole list, add into that the ravaged ranks of what remains of Pestilens models and I can't see why you would play Pestilens over say Moulder, Skryre or Verminous, that all said, we're a few days away from the second half of the model drop for Skaven this edition, and I'm hoping against hope that this is where we're getting a few Pestilens and Eshin models
Three clawsteps ahead is enemy hero phase only, so no good if you're going first and going for take the flanks. Night Runners and Doom-flayer are your friends here.
Found it a little funny that Maggotkin is the only Chaos army with no army specific manifestations . Fine several universal ones are good. Also they are probably the only army in the game that has a priest without a prayer lore. The harbinger just has his warscroll prayer. Me before listening. No more summoning that could make a mortal Hedonites army a lot cheaper as i don't need to buy a bunch of demons. Listens to Vince give his thoughts on the army. Oh well the models sure still do look nice. Skaven i'm honestly just waiting for more of the refresh and army book before deciding what do with my half of skaventide. Do i build the models for a possible skaven army or just sell them off. Looking forward for the next 2 weeks to get the rest of the armies done. i'm sure my expectations on my armies/units i like will be subverted and will continue to be lower mid to trash tier.
Loved the episode, chaos looks very cool. Very hype for destruction next week. Do you have any recommendations for good warscrolls to look at in gitz? Thank you for the great episode
Funny thing with Khorne is they hid two only fincast models in entire chaos (maybe entire AoS tbh) through recent purge (rip blue scribes), so I think Herald on Jagger and Lord on Jagger are going to be reworked with the book :D Bloodcrushers and Skullcrashers also aren't the newest models in the range, and entire edition is quite chaos focused, so I really hope for lot of reworks for this alliance. Same for the flamers of tzeentch. Pls fix those messy idiots :'D
I have a question on Skaven. Is the problem with the pestilens formation just the fact that pestilens lacks good units? Because it seems like free movement for 3 units should be good.
@@MrBoadini I don't remember when, but I believe he also mentioned them not being as great as people are mathhammering out in the Order show as well. Either the Order show or some other show before then
well they just slowly walk somewhere and get charged first by some very fast huge hammer like 10 Dawnriders, that IJ has basically nothing that can deal with them, and they get pummeled.
Disagree with demagogue, its avarage +0.5 to cast. Double 5s and double 6s already can't be unbound if you take kairos+tome and double 1 still failes, meaning it will only have a meaningful impact on double 2s, 3s and 4s which is 1 in 12 casts (or generally once per game). Meanwhile Illusionist is bananas. -1 to hit on LoC that also works vs shooting is a game changer, especially when combining it with Locus for -2 to hit to negate that AoA or other +hit bonus. Ever seen a destruction players face when hes hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s? Wyrdflame blade is also great, LoC illusionist becomes a mobile -2/-1 delivery system which is huge. He has enought attacks to tag multiple units with it. I've seen it in tournament winning lists and seen much better player than myself swear by it, even if I still prefer the Tome myself. Gonna have to play test the blade more.
Shalaxi, Keeper, Sigvald, Masque, and then I am playing with the rest, but usually 10 twinsouls and 20 daemonettes and 5 seekers or hell striders. But i am still playing around.
Im very disappointed with Nurglings... I wonder if they forgot to include a deep strike rule for them. The Lore section describes them as infiltrators!
@VinceVenturella I'm still very sad at how they still can't balance the marks. I've been playing warhammer for 25 years. I don't think these marks have ever been balanced with one another. Even in forty k, there is always been a disparity between the Even in 40K, there has always been a disparity between the 5 marks
@VinceVenturella That's what I thought the mantra was. Made sure I was drinking the correct kool-aid. Also what did Dino mean when he said "you will just put them in the trees" when speaking about a couple unit placements.
Phantasmagoria is not that hard to understand. Your opponent picks the unit to fight does his pile in, and the declare step is done. Move to reaction step Phantasmagoria activates move 2d3. On a 3+ maybe 4+ break out of combat. They then attack oh wait no ones home or you crippled there attacks by minimizeing the number of models that can attack. The Phantasmagoria units activation is done. Now its your activation.
A little surprised you dismissed the Gaunt Summoner in S2D so easily. Its your only generic two cast wizard AND it has an unrestricted regiment. The disc one is way too expensive but surely the foot Summoner has a place right?
@VinceVenturella 😨💔 I spent so much time converting two of these. It was about the only way to play AoS 3 without a LoC. ...now there is literally no way to play without Kairos haha 🤣 guess that's jut good business
When Vince starts to talk about Slaanesh he becomes a five year old. Don’t want to text something rude here… but dude… consider reflecting your attitude, especially because of the reason that you want to play the army at an event.
I'm not sure what you're saying, was i too exicted? I am playing them because I like the army (I love the army) and I think it would be funny to use their battle trait as written and give my opponents their best game of the day. Is there an issue there?
@@VinceVenturellayou won't give them the best game of their day. its not fulfilling or fun to win against a defiant, angry player who just wants to troll and prove how "bad" his battle trait is.
@@olafolafsson2755 I think you're misunderstanding. :) - I am not going to be angry or defiant, I legitimately want them to have a good game, I am going to play my silly army and be happy and have fun and be happy that I am making their army awesome. I don't understand. It will be great fun for everyone. I think you're assuming things about my attitude here that certainly aren't true when I play a game.
They have strong units. You can take 20 slickblades 15 bliss seekers 20 archers and some twin souls a couple shardspeakers. That's 190 wounds. 20 slicks 10 bliss 50 foot archers 2 shards is 180 wounds. You can just shoot everything and beat stuff up with a bad allegiance like you're gutbusters.
@@renaukint8264 it will take next to no skill. If u watch the season of war battle report the blissbarb archers are still really good and now everything else is now a lot better. Because of its high movement slaanesh seems skillful but is actually just a lot less punishing for your mistakes. It used to be fast and fragile and now is fast and tankier than a 42 glutton list.
I'm a huge pestilence fan, but now the clan is simply not playable. Two priests that cost too much, the monks need to deal at least 2 mortals or do mortals at a 4+/5+ when they die to be a valid alternative to clanrats. The only possible way to play the clan is a game that allows legend units.
So I still haven't had a solid answer (and watching different Slaanesh battle reports people seem to be all over with this): Do companion attacks get to become Euphoric??
@@olafolafsson2755 thanks for the reply. I was hoping there was a loophole somewhere so that my 6 Fiends didn't feel so terrible, but guess I just gotta bite the bullet and shelf them 😢
Apologies to everyone for the issues with my connection, I hope it wasn't too bad. Place I'm at for vacation has really choppy internet. I appreciate everyone for listening, and, once more, many thanks to Vince for having me on, it is always a pleasure, sir 🙏
Turn off the router. Count up to 10 seconds and turn it on again
Whenever you're on as a guest I really enjoy your insights. Thanks for contributing to some of the best Warhammer content out there
Try turning off video. When I’m in a zoom class with 40 people and we have to turn on video we may as well be using smoke signals. Turning off video means more bandwidth for audio. Great video!!
Vince did a good job of letting you know when it was getting bad. Thank you both for the content!
Missing on unmodified 1-2-3 does not include minusses to hit. So an unmodified 4+ neg 1, will hit just fyi :)
I hit the like button and got to roll on the eye of the gods table
Leaving a comment for the greatness that is your channel, Vince. Keeping the hype alive. Consistent af. Thank you for your commitment.
Always!
I hate that we can't ally in slaves into DOT anymore, I got so many models I now can field two armies. But some very good and interesting points that made me less unhappy with 4th. Pet your cute dogs for me!
Ogroid Thaumaturge should have been in StD. Swap the Mutalith Best for it. That way you could run a proper Ogroid army with the Thaumaturge your wizard hero, Myrmidon your fighty hero and Theridons your core infantry (and your ungor models as darkoath marauders...)
@3:26:00 The hidden awsome sauce with stormfiends is the timing of any movement phase. You can jump up in the opponents turn and then move charge in their own, insane
Yea you're not wrong it's incredible. Used it a bunch of times already it's crazy strong
Very good catch, move my official rating on those up!
Quick thing on turning off the beast ability. Belladamma Volga in Soulblight turns off the beast ability for dire wolves. Just wanted to give y’all a quick heads up on that one
Mutalith Vortex Beast being in S2D and NOT in the Tzeentch pack is.....fundamentally wrong??
Played against StD the other day with Ironjawz and I got smashed by turn two. The amount of crit mortals in that army is crazy, even with a ward I could not stop the silly amount they can pump out.
You think that's a feature of S2D pumping out crit mortals or a function of Ironjaws being something of a disaster thusfar?
After the inital doom and gloom about tzeentch it's really nice to hear your take. Taking the project back up. Would you mind sharing the list you played?
Also Skyfires deal ~6dmg on average into a 4+ save with no ward. With all out attack it goes to ~8, but with countershoot you double the damage to ~12 where it might be worth the 340pts?
Damn! Took me 3 days to listen to the replay. Feeling you Dino, I have kids that age too! That’s for hanging in there; no small feat!
Appreciate it, friend 🙏It was worth it 😁
Going to run an Arch Warlock and 13 doomwheels - I'll probably win nothing, but I've wanted to run all doomwheels since I started skaven. May the great horned rat bless me
I hate that Bloodthirsters can't take mortals in their regiments. I think they're the only greater daemons that are restricted like that. Why even make a mixed mortal/daemon subfaction when you disincentivize it at every turn?
Cause that makes no sense? The points are also factored around that. Take a bthirster and demons then a priest or whatever n mortals. If you got 3 bthirsts you are playing demons.
As always, thank you Vince for all you do for our hobby! Great show and always good takes on the units....bumber on the chickens 🐔 😢. Here's to hope the book corrects it.
If, by chicken, you mean the Lord of Change, we have vastly underestimated the unit, friend, it's an incredible piece and it's already winning games and tournaments. All good 😁
3:44:00 I'm one of those people experimenting with 3x monks and the pestilens subfaction and I think you're underestimating how much it lets you deny BTs and pin their hammers down when combined with 3 clawsteps. If they go first turn one, a combination of 3 clawsteps and end of turn pile ins makes it easy to deny their seize the center/take the flanks without before spending the CP to counter charge. Meanwhile, if you go first you can score which ever's better and on the following turn position use warpseer's -to charge + potentially redeploy backwards to make it difficult for them to land a charge with a hammer, then pin said hammer after combat. And when they do manage do finally make it to your screens and a couple models survive a combat, the ability to retreat them then pile back in, thus skipping that combat, means you often force your opponents to spend multiple rounds pinned to your chaff while the other 1600ish points of your army is able to do whatever they want. At the end of the day, there's so many little things that you can do with them to effectively skip a combat that you don't want while still keeping their units pinned.
I am looking forward to feedback! I hope I am wrong and we have 4 full viable factions, I do think if they had more units/variability, it would be a completely different situation.
I was looking forward to your takes on S2D, they seem like such a split army. You have the heavy metal immovable army and the savage horde of barbarians. I dont think they mix incredibly well but some things are better for one side than the other. The 8-Fold Doom Sigil synergizes with the Wilderbeast and the hordes of Darkoath dying and then recurring with their specific formation. Im really sad Despoilers arent a better choice, me and my Demon Princes are still gonna run around and cause chaos tho!
As always tho, it was a great vid Vince! Appreciate your insight on things
Absolute Legends....both of you! Great job as always. The content is very much appreciated!
Our pleasure!
KONSTANTINOS! Great guy!
sigmar should take a look at these chosen and varanguard guys.
2:49:55 I like the take “your sub faction only affects half your army”. Meanwhile; stormcasts sub faction only affects a single unit once in one faze. 😅
But I really like the look of skaven, my other chaos army S2D look a bit pricey, hard to build non varanguard lists
1:57:48 we were having a discussion about how does the gravetide works. The ability does not say that it has to end outside of combat but the fly keyword does so anytime you make that move ability you would have to move over the models and then finish the move outside the combat range. It’s a mess I hope they clarify these things soon. Because it seems that the pendulum just don’t work
Did you actually read the lord of change warscroll? -1 to hit within 12", a really good spell on a 7 (sure no bonuses) and the ability to bring back a unit at half strength is pretty damn good for the points. I think it is either a lord of change or Kairos but they are different kinds of lists.
I feel he’d be amazing, in another army.
Tzeentch is a magic casting army and wants magic casters and has access to great spellcasters. His bonuses are to being a fighty, bashy army, so he doesn’t really do anything too great that fits Tzeentch play style.
I think it’s a great warscrolls, just not for Tzeentch. In any other army, a giant -1 hit bubble, double cashing recursion piece might be great, but I don’t think Tzeentch generally wants any of that…
Like the other guy said-you want magic in a magic army. The scroll is actually good, but not when your army focus isn’t dedicated pure close combat and carnage.
Yes.
I was on the fence, but I think I'll play him a decent amount.
He allows you to get a second regiment with 2 wizards so you can have 4 on a 2 drop.
That's worth something...
Cheapest 2 caster is the Changeling at 160, and he is unique so you still need a 2 cast wizard platform for enhancements, and the LoC is the biggest base for illusionist, so that's worth some points.
Then he gets a 12" aura of -1 to hit... That's worth something...
Then he he is targetable by shooting but has a much better profile than a small wizard, tanker, better melee, better shooting, faster.... Overall I think he comes out ahead, so that's worth something....
Then he can recycle your demon units for basically free with the 1s and 2s you roll for destiny dice.
That's worth something....
He's got a decent war scroll spell.
That's worth something...
He has a control score of 5.
That's worth something....
Overall, I think he has a place in a lot of lists, as long as you play some demons.
Not if you're spamming Tzaangors...
where do you get these people to and have the time to do all of this knowledge acquisition damn 😮 this is some legit ass work ethics at play! Kudos to you, dude ⚡
Hey Vince. Played my first game of 4th with the blades of Khorne. The new points are out of control. Skarbrand goes up 200 points! Blood thirsters went up half there points. Even the bad units you pointed out you can’t even just throw them in because their points are to high. I thought GW was a miniature figure company, but they are making you play with less and less figures! Enjoyed the show! I have to watch it again to figure out the 5 war scrolls worth playing with.😂
Haven’t gotten the chance to play BoK but I feel your pain even in list building. I feel like they need about a 5-10 reduction across the board and maybe more on the BTs. But I think they were playing it safe because of the reign of terror that Khorne has been on for the last year and a half.
Less figures means it's easier for new players to get lists together. It'll creep down in time.
I have played against Khorne a few times, their points are correct. THey are quite strong, I would say they are pretty easily the strongest chaos army. :)
I have to say just hit the table more. Ive been having a great time with khorne so far. I mostly play mortals, but the points feel fine.
@@VinceVenturella I guess I say they’re still a little overcosted after playing against SBGL vampire spam. Bloodknights at 230 vs. skullreapers at 220 does not seem right with the amount of easy buffs, healing, and damage bloodknights are putting out with a huge engagement range + power through. Now that might be more of bloodknights being ridiculously undercosted and not the other way around.
Thank you Vince, I was looking forward to have some reviews of Tzeentch, my fellow Tzeentch players are mostly sour and complaining about the change, I came to most of the same conclusion than you however I just started playing 4th and don’t have a lot of games under my belly.
Who do they keep letting write the rules for Slaanesh and why?
Endless Spells which have the Keyword Fly gain the passive Ability Fly Therefore they can't end there move in Combat (see 15.4.).
I am aware of this, but its clearly an unintended rule interaction they will likely FAQ away, as it makes certain endless spells literlly unsable. In short, its a mistake I expect to be changed.
Seeing you go through all these armies, I thought the following: It seems that the designers were overly cautious when they wrote the pitched battle profiles for heroes in the new edition.
There are so many small to medium heroes that should cost less and/or be bonus heroes.
At least this kind of problem can be fixed with battle scrolls. Or at the very least with the next GHB.
And once there are more small heroes around, Anti-Hero becomes more meaningful. Win-win.
The trouble with Pestilens/prayer lore is our priests, we have I think 2 left, verminlord corrupter and the furnace, both of which are nearly a quarter of a whole list, add into that the ravaged ranks of what remains of Pestilens models and I can't see why you would play Pestilens over say Moulder, Skryre or Verminous, that all said, we're a few days away from the second half of the model drop for Skaven this edition, and I'm hoping against hope that this is where we're getting a few Pestilens and Eshin models
You way have been wrong about the IDK units, but you will never be as wrong as Tom was about 3rd edition zombies
Three clawsteps ahead is enemy hero phase only, so no good if you're going first and going for take the flanks. Night Runners and Doom-flayer are your friends here.
Good call, the penalty of going fast. :)
You forgot fiends... they are a must include as well, and you can have 2 back when dead with the keeper
Oh, I didn't forget them...
So the frothing maniac army is still super johnny. But who is the the chaos king of Timmies?
I am not sure there is one in Chaos, Destruction has that now.
Vince as a weapon team fanatic, I believe that the weapon teams should all be at a level the doom flayer currently is
Gosh darn it. I haven't finished the last one yet! Sorry for the language.
Found it a little funny that Maggotkin is the only Chaos army with no army specific manifestations . Fine several universal ones are good. Also they are probably the only army in the game that has a priest without a prayer lore. The harbinger just has his warscroll prayer.
Me before listening. No more summoning that could make a mortal Hedonites army a lot cheaper as i don't need to buy a bunch of demons. Listens to Vince give his thoughts on the army. Oh well the models sure still do look nice.
Skaven i'm honestly just waiting for more of the refresh and army book before deciding what do with my half of skaventide. Do i build the models for a possible skaven army or just sell them off.
Looking forward for the next 2 weeks to get the rest of the armies done. i'm sure my expectations on my armies/units i like will be subverted and will continue to be lower mid to trash tier.
@48:29 Vince: "Im not interested in a wizard 2 that can kill himself on a cast"
Grey Seers curse-squeak at him from his shelf.
He can't kill himself in one shot anymore. ;)
@@VinceVenturella which I'm happy for. But theres a history
I'm great 40k fan myself, but Warhammer Age of Sigmar is for my heart and soul.💞
Love how Slaangore didn’t even get mentioned as a skip…..which they are.
Loved the episode, chaos looks very cool. Very hype for destruction next week. Do you have any recommendations for good warscrolls to look at in gitz? Thank you for the great episode
You'll see next week! ;)
Funny thing with Khorne is they hid two only fincast models in entire chaos (maybe entire AoS tbh) through recent purge (rip blue scribes), so I think Herald on Jagger and Lord on Jagger are going to be reworked with the book :D Bloodcrushers and Skullcrashers also aren't the newest models in the range, and entire edition is quite chaos focused, so I really hope for lot of reworks for this alliance. Same for the flamers of tzeentch. Pls fix those messy idiots :'D
I have a question on Skaven. Is the problem with the pestilens formation just the fact that pestilens lacks good units? Because it seems like free movement for 3 units should be good.
Yep, it’s a good ability, it’s tricky c but the units are so limited right now.
Was quite excited for the glow-up to the IJ Brute warscroll, but all this foreshadowing about it has me a bit worried about how IJ will be in general.
Foreshadowing? I must've missed the comments on it? When did he mention it?
Came up in the Khorne discussion if I remember, I think Brutes were compared unfavorably to Skullreapers@@MrBoadini
@@matthewstrike7719 thanks! My air compressor must've drowned that part out.
@@MrBoadini I don't remember when, but I believe he also mentioned them not being as great as people are mathhammering out in the Order show as well. Either the Order show or some other show before then
well they just slowly walk somewhere and get charged first by some very fast huge hammer like 10 Dawnriders, that IJ has basically nothing that can deal with them, and they get pummeled.
Disagree with demagogue, its avarage +0.5 to cast. Double 5s and double 6s already can't be unbound if you take kairos+tome and double 1 still failes, meaning it will only have a meaningful impact on double 2s, 3s and 4s which is 1 in 12 casts (or generally once per game). Meanwhile Illusionist is bananas. -1 to hit on LoC that also works vs shooting is a game changer, especially when combining it with Locus for -2 to hit to negate that AoA or other +hit bonus. Ever seen a destruction players face when hes hitting on 5s and wounding on 4s?
Wyrdflame blade is also great, LoC illusionist becomes a mobile -2/-1 delivery system which is huge. He has enought attacks to tag multiple units with it. I've seen it in tournament winning lists and seen much better player than myself swear by it, even if I still prefer the Tome myself. Gonna have to play test the blade more.
Great discussion as always!!!
Much appreciated!
5 hours, let's strap in 😂
And I've just finished listening 🎉
Awesome video as always! Vince if you don't mind, i am curious what is your Slaanesh hero heavy list looking like? Thank you good sir!:)
Shalaxi, Keeper, Sigvald, Masque, and then I am playing with the rest, but usually 10 twinsouls and 20 daemonettes and 5 seekers or hell striders. But i am still playing around.
@@VinceVenturella great! Thank you kind sir!:)
Why can’t you countercharge manifestations or faction terrain?
ahh the golden retriever "I want attention" whine, I know you well. Doggos always improve the show
Im very disappointed with Nurglings... I wonder if they forgot to include a deep strike rule for them. The Lore section describes them as infiltrators!
Rule of 1 would prevent the Gaunt Summoner from using the silver tower more than once, no?
Yes, correct
Man. I think people are sleeping on the Undivided mark. +1 to wound v monsters and heroes this edition can be VERY VERY good.
I'm still not sold, I think heroes and monsters will be largely absent this edition outside of a few very good ones.
@VinceVenturella I'm still very sad at how they still can't balance the marks. I've been playing warhammer for 25 years. I don't think these marks have ever been balanced with one another. Even in forty k, there is always been a disparity between the Even in 40K, there has always been a disparity between the 5 marks
Was looking forward to hearing thoughts on dark oath only to get a meh don't want to talk about them haha :( womp womp
Hey Vince, when you say Skaven are drop heavy and you just gota deal, are you meaning you will be taking auxiliary units because of that?
No, you will never take auxilary units, they don't exist.
@VinceVenturella That's what I thought the mantra was. Made sure I was drinking the correct kool-aid.
Also what did Dino mean when he said "you will just put them in the trees" when speaking about a couple unit placements.
@@manga3040 Setting them up in obscuring terrain.
@@VinceVenturella Ok that makes sense. Thank you!
Phantasmagoria is not that hard to understand. Your opponent picks the unit to fight does his pile in, and the declare step is done. Move to reaction step Phantasmagoria activates move 2d3. On a 3+ maybe 4+ break out of combat. They then attack oh wait no ones home or you crippled there attacks by minimizeing the number of models that can attack. The Phantasmagoria units activation is done. Now its your activation.
What are peoples thoughts on running 5 twinsouls vs 10
I've tried both, depends on the purpose, but either can work.
damn, maybe i can finish my basecoating with a video this long!
A little surprised you dismissed the Gaunt Summoner in S2D so easily. Its your only generic two cast wizard AND it has an unrestricted regiment. The disc one is way too expensive but surely the foot Summoner has a place right?
He might, You're so squeezed on heroes and the CSL is just solid for what you need and cheap, so I am not sure.
A like and a comment for the ruse
Is there no Fatemaster for Tzeentch any more?
Nope
@VinceVenturella 😨💔 I spent so much time converting two of these. It was about the only way to play AoS 3 without a LoC. ...now there is literally no way to play without Kairos haha 🤣 guess that's jut good business
❤
Hit like for dogs
When Vince starts to talk about Slaanesh he becomes a five year old.
Don’t want to text something rude here… but dude… consider reflecting your attitude, especially because of the reason that you want to play the army at an event.
I'm not sure what you're saying, was i too exicted? I am playing them because I like the army (I love the army) and I think it would be funny to use their battle trait as written and give my opponents their best game of the day. Is there an issue there?
@@VinceVenturellayou won't give them the best game of their day.
its not fulfilling or fun to win against a defiant, angry player who just wants to troll and prove how "bad" his battle trait is.
@@olafolafsson2755 I think you're misunderstanding. :) - I am not going to be angry or defiant, I legitimately want them to have a good game, I am going to play my silly army and be happy and have fun and be happy that I am making their army awesome. I don't understand. It will be great fun for everyone. I think you're assuming things about my attitude here that certainly aren't true when I play a game.
Slaanesh is terrible but I'm still going to take them and beat all the tryhards with good faction rules out of sheer spite. 😆
Slaanesh are great. The trait is pants but we will see them as a top tier army soon
They have strong units. You can take 20 slickblades 15 bliss seekers 20 archers and some twin souls a couple shardspeakers. That's 190 wounds. 20 slicks 10 bliss 50 foot archers 2 shards is 180 wounds. You can just shoot everything and beat stuff up with a bad allegiance like you're gutbusters.
Slaanesh is strong… why does the internet believe they are bad?!
@@olafolafsson2755 because of the skill lvl it will take
@@renaukint8264 it will take next to no skill. If u watch the season of war battle report the blissbarb archers are still really good and now everything else is now a lot better. Because of its high movement slaanesh seems skillful but is actually just a lot less punishing for your mistakes. It used to be fast and fragile and now is fast and tankier than a 42 glutton list.
I'm a huge pestilence fan, but now the clan is simply not playable. Two priests that cost too much, the monks need to deal at least 2 mortals or do mortals at a 4+/5+ when they die to be a valid alternative to clanrats. The only possible way to play the clan is a game that allows legend units.
So I still haven't had a solid answer (and watching different Slaanesh battle reports people seem to be all over with this):
Do companion attacks get to become Euphoric??
I've seen someone tackling that question with rules in hand and the answer was "no"
@@fokin_skaven So its affectively always useless to make Glutos or Fiends Euphoric?
It doesn’t affect companions.
Give it to your daemonettes and shred your opponent out of the tournamenthall
@@olafolafsson2755 thanks for the reply. I was hoping there was a loophole somewhere so that my 6 Fiends didn't feel so terrible, but guess I just gotta bite the bullet and shelf them 😢
It effects the attack sequence, so it does not affect companions.