OOF! Shapiro's Israel Debate w/ Oxford Student Gets Messy
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 июл 2024
- Israel Talk w/ History PhD Student Derails Into Intense Debate...
► • Israel Talk w/ History...
Pro-Hamas Panelist Confronts Destiny And Instantly Backtracks
► • Pro-Hamas Panelist Con...
Heated Confrontation w/ Destiny On His Israel Take
► • Destiny Loses It At Le...
Destiny Loses It At Leftists Defending Hamas Attack On Civilians
► • Destiny Loses It At Le...
▼Follow Destiny▼
►STREAM - www.destiny.gg/bigscreen
►TWITTER - / theomniliberal
►DISCORD - discordapp.com/invite/destiny
►REDDIT - / destiny
►INSTAGRAM - / destiny
►MERCH - shop.destiny.gg/
Check Out My Amazon: www.amazon.com/shop/destiny
Buy My Merch: shop.destiny.gg/
#destiny
#politics
#debate
![Chk Chk Boom - Stray Kids ストレイキッズ 스트레이 키즈 [Music Bank] | KBS WORLD TV 240719](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/63QPwqCRGcw/mqdefault.jpg)
Israel Talk w/ History PhD Student Derails Into Debate►ruclips.net/video/gce0XXMnPNQ/видео.html
Pro-Hamas Panelist Confronts Destiny►ruclips.net/video/ROGQwEzitTA/видео.html
you are misunderstanding bens point in the first video - he is just stating the importent points, not the whole history every detail.
for example - baruch goldstein did the mosque massacre, but he wasnt the reason oslo accords failed. that was the point, the oslo accord failed because yasser arafats breaking it
@@polpol2739 But the framing here is that Israel has not done any wrong or contributed to the violence we see today. “All they want is for people to stop bothering us”. Goldstein isn’t a important point?
goldstein was a reaction to the violence by palestinians.
Ben shapiro's video is telling a long story short - meaning only the major points to this almost 200 year conflict. if he would tell every event in the conflict it would be a video over an hour long minimum@@Jchris716
1936-1939 Arab revolt in Palestine , before 1948 palestiniens were aldready crush by the british army. jew were better treat by british than palestiens after that , even training their futur base for their army
jews joined the british in world war 2. they were a force for britian of pilots and men. and the muslims in the mandate join the Nazi ranks including having an SS squads if i remember correctly @@kajolet
Imagine being a student at one of the most prestigious universities on earth, one that is near impossible to get into, and you literally have no idea what happened during WW2. Wild.
It is really black pilling me on academia.
@@CrestOfArtoriasIn my university I had a classmate in an anatomy ask me, unironically, what was "wrong with this dude's skull." It was an ape skull.
Like, yes, he was an athlete scholarship but still you'd think he'd have to be the bare minimum??!!
Is your view specifically pertaining to history? Because I could say the same about someone not knowing the derivative of 2x^2, that’s extremely basic calculus and you could learn how to do that in 2 seconds but I wouldn’t expect someone in a non-mathematics field to know that. You could similarly ask someone to explain what the prefix “myo” means which is also basic anatomy but someone who’s not in a health field may not know that. I understand if you think history is more important than these fields (which I personally would disagree with) but that’s such an arbitrary knowledge standard to hold people to, where is the line drawn. The Cold War? War of 1812? Civil war? WWI? Ukraine vs Russia? When I used to work at a grocery store and people wanted to split the bill, adults were surprised all the time of how quickly I could split the bill exactly in half, something like $187.14 going to $93.57x2. I’m positive all of these adults could tell me why happened in WWII, but the same people also can’t divide by 2 in their head? I know this was a long comment but I see people talking about the lack of knowledge of history and geography as if they’re the gold standards of intelligence, and it’s just so weird to me.
@@xGotDemFragzJRxI think the difference is, you learn about WW2 in high school, and one of the most documented historical events in history.
Yeah, but that doesn’t mean you know everything you don’t suddenly obtain knowledge about everything just bec you go to a prestigious place of education
She really said Britain didn’t bomb any German civilians
*Cough* Dresden *Cough*
The people of Dresden were only settlers bro
There are no warcrimes in Ba-Sing-Se
brits was the good Goys!
They were Nazi babies
the lack of good faith commentators on this issue is making me doomer
I will bro hug you with my muscles and make the doom go away bro. (no homo, ofc..)
Good good, embraceeeee you're hatreedddddd
Yea this issue in particular is one of those ones we just didn’t get into because it wasn’t worth the argument because it wasn’t effecting us a lot of people didn’t even have a developed opinion on the subject now either Everyone is towing party lines, listening to the most radical people who have always thought about the issue or are just completely apathetic
Coleman Hughes has the most balanced take imo
I don't know how this situation could make you be a fan of Doom but I'm glad for you man. The Doom series is a classic in an FPS genre I am happy to see a new face in this incredible fandom. Did you play Doom 64 btw?
I've heard the student was on the debate team and had time to prepare. Is this true? Because if so, that's even worse than I thought
I had a couple friends who were on the debate team for their schools, and my understanding is that debate teams in school have almost nothing to do with actual debate. It seems like since it's actually a competition with a point system, it's mostly about gaming the system. For example, they talk as quickly as humanly possible in order to spit out as much information as possible for points, and also to make it as hard as possible for their opponents to understand what they're saying. They speak at least as fast as auctioneers, if not faster. Not an exaggeration. The ability to speak so quickly and to understand others doing it is probably the most important skill a debate kid can have.
I'd say it's a niche community which doesn't prepare you for actual debate, it teaches you to speak as fast as possible, and to find ways of winning based more on technicality than actually good or sane ideas. Not exactly shocking someone like that would fail in a genuine debate. There are no rules you can leverage to win, you have to instead be convincing to normal people outside of your weird, incestuous little community.
@@foop145 the ability to speak quickly is definitely not the most important skills. The most important skills are being able to think quickly, do good research, and speak clearly. I can understand why people who don't participate in debate think that speaking fast is the most important skill but it definitely isn't. debaters and the judges are definitely able to understand each other so. Furthermore, colleges participate in different debate styles. From what I understand of college debate parliamentary debate is the most common and policy debate, the event where people speed talk (spread) , is really not that common. Very few colleges do policy debate and I'm pretty sure Oxford is not one of them. The reason this is important is because policy debate is an event that actually requires deep levels of research into topic areas whereas parliamentary does not.
@@foop145 You are right and wrong at the same time. I personally know an European debate league judge. The main skill you need to have to win a debate is to form, defend and disprove arguments. Key word here is arguments, not facts.
@@foop145your right partially, that form of debate your referring to is a particular style, however there are multiple forms of debate, so it depends on which form the student is prepping or competing for
She probably isn't. The Oxford Union has a competitive debate wing, but those debaters rarely, if ever, take part in Chamber debates.
Lol Destiny just debating himself on this issue at this point.
unironically the best way to flesh out your understanding of a topic and challenge yourself. 'debating yourself' is like textbook critical analysis.
@@GomulDartvery well put
sometimes that schizoid self gaslighting is called reasoning
It would help if his steelmen were actually right, like that last bit about the status quo? The entire reason shit is fucked in Gaza is because Israel PULLED THE OCCUPATION FORCES AWAY. Ben is absolutely right that the primary force responsible for the continuation of the conflict is Hamas.
Destiny genuinely tries, but his impulses to try to be fair just keep running him into Hamas propaguanda but that's more an endictemnt of hamas than anything else.
@@12brunni lol so the reason Gaza is fucked is because Israel wasn't doing enough occupation and oppression XD And you ironically talk about Hamas propaganda...
Comprehending Ben Shapiro on 2x speed. Destiny is truly on the next level.
Your not a realy DGGer if you didnt watch this video on 2x speed ;)
"You really think you're the only one who can play this game." -Shapiro when he reacts to this video and puts it in 2x speed
Some of us are watching this whole thing on 2x lol. Only issue with livestreams. Gotta start em half way through.
It's the training that will come in handy for the upcoming debate lol
Based Ben the Jew
"Destiny is too partial to isreal! He's uninformed as fuck!"
Destiny literally steel manning both sides every video and stream:
They are upset he doesn't agree with them. It's hiding the ball.
The problem is most alternative media sources/internet sources are HEAVILY pro-Palestine, so Destiny is ending up sounding pro-Israel when he's trying to be realistic.
He doesn't. He read the history and ommited things that would make Israel look bad.
@@REDDAWNprojectThe real problem is that, in general, the fact of the matter is that most of Israel’s actions are largely reactive and defensive. But if you try to talk about that, people will lose their collective minds.
@@lukaswithakayI would accept this argument if the Palestinians in the West Bank controlled by the PLO weren’t treated like shit and live in segregation, I can accept the Gaza argument as being reactive but the view changes when shifted to the West Bank that is what makes me heavily believe Israel are wrong completely
Jews were never ever treated well in muslim countries, even before zionism. It may seem like they treated Jews better because on the surface there were less pogroms than in Europe, but this is only because there were much more Jews in Europe
I love how destiny just want people to debate properly, to the point that he can debate himself about this topic
“Oops! Ben Shapiro gets a widdle messy! Debate gone wrong?!?!”
New title for the vid I demand this.
Ooo look a commentor getting nasty, better make a single video
OWO
(Abby Shapiro in thumbnail)
Damn it's perfect
LMAOOOOO
actually laughable how these students feel remotely qualified to talk about anything war-related when they cant even process that war, and especially WW1 and WW2, and later all the massacres by Arabs, included the deaths of thousands of civilians. They are about to go up there and say "Britain fought WW2 through navy seals fast roping down helicopters into enemy compounds and not bombings and airstrikes" 🤣
"all the massacres OF Arabs", you mean.
They even don’t realize that the soviets defeated the Germans and not the British and Americans who were stuck in France…
The difference is hamas doesn't own nuclear weapons or is even a huge threat in the grand scheme of things, if anything they are a symptom of the oppression Palestinians have endured, they were a response they are essentially the Palestinian military, the difference is they are not recognised as such and so they are considered terrorist while Israel commits literal war crimes
Did Britain have control over the food,water, and borders of Germany when they were fighting them in the world wars (edit: at the start of the war)?
@@gionidesyndrome149 everyone is criticizing Israel’s actions, don’t act like the entire world supports them when it is not the case
I figured it out. Destiny is conservative at heart. Liberal at mind. And female at name.
I used to make fun of Ben Shapiro because "He only debates uninformed/unprepared college kids and tries to dunk on them for clicks", but this debate (along with him agreeing to debate Destiny next month) has made me completely rethink that. He went to one of the most prestigious universities in the world, to debate a very specific topic, and students knew in advance and had time to prepare. Still, that lady went up there completely uninformed and unprepared, and rightfully got destroyed. Ben didn't use any 'debate tactics' or misrepresent her ideas. All he had to do to win was let her reveal how little she knew. Kinda similar to that argument Destiny had with Catnip the other day.
I didn't want the Destiny/Shapiro debate to be about Israel-Palestine. I really wanted it to be about Biden v Trump, but now, I think it may be worthwhile to set aside 30-60 mins of the debate for a discussion on Israel-Palestine, because it could help set some actual reasonable discourse. Maybe they could debate how Biden is handling it vs how Trump would handle it.
To be fair, that was still a student. Students are by definition still young and uninformed. Ben didn't debate any professor.
You realize Ben isn’t a big Trump fan, right?
@@KryptoGraphVideosbut he voted for him. I'll bet you on that.
@@54tisfaction I was thinking the same thing - He instead chose to have a debate with a student even with the material and time given to study the topic for the debate instead of a professor.
@@KryptoGraphVideoshe simps for trump in every possible way
Palastinians have shot themselves in the foot for 100 years with attacking jews and Israel every time Israel has reached our for a solution that respects both groups.
You don't really need to change the playback speed on Ben Shapiros monologue, if you do, you might end up going so fast you travel back in time.
Wouldn't you be travelling to the future rather than the past? I think time moves slower when you move faster?
@@itsmarmaladei think its a superman reference haha
Chattel slavery was a lot worse in places like Brazil and the Caribbean, and these were European colonies. I get why Destiny thinks America is the worst actor with regard to slavery, but to think other areas weren't much worse is ahistorical. Now, that isn't to say American slavery wasn't horrible (it was), but American slavery was not uniquely bad.
I agree and actually believe the Arab slave trade was the worst one to exist but nobody talks about it. But I’ll say in regards to America I think it’s the after effects of slavery that makes it more memorable, you know the lynchings and segregation period that lasted so much longer than in other places, that’s why America is remembered for it
When I first read about slavery in Asia (caste systems in Korea and India), I was absolutely horrified...
Why would descendents of american slavery talk about the arab slave trade? Its like a murderer saying, "I only killed her, I didnt rape her too like the other guys."
@@deevasquez1171 Nah, America is talked about when bringing up slavery is because America bad and is the most powerful country on the planet. Many slaves would die in Brazil from the mines to the plantations.
Yeah, Brazil ended slavery 25 years after the US did.
The biggest crime against humanity is making us listen to Ben Shapiro in 2x
😂😂😂
Oh no
Light speed
even wilder when I come in here already at 2x speed and the mfer is now a bitstream
or at all.
Fuck parasocial. I'm so glad Destiny exists and is the way he is. I don't know anyone who covers important topics so cleanly and avoids tribalism so well. Feels like a lighthouse in an ocean of confusion.
the ultimate both sides bad faith issue
Ben won that debate by a mile
With yet another college student? Shocked Pikachu face
@@Nikifuj908I’m sure catnip and lav , and destiny’s recent conversation with another student are more educated people
@@Nikifuj908 Oh, that evil ben picking on college kids. It doesnt matter that he was right pretty much everytime, it only matters that its college kids so the 'own' is void
@@Nikifuj908 Why are you infantilizing her. She chose to debate and is a respected member of their debate team. Who are you to say she is not qualified? She has qualifications.
@@Nikifuj908as if the older Pally supporters are any smart xD
lmfao a chat message that said "take ur meds chat" unironically reminded me to take my meds
55:03 you can even see a British dude on the right side of the screen saying 'yes we were' in response to her lmfao
Yeah, we deserve props for our greatest hits! 🇬🇧
went back to see it. his head popped up lol
It’s so ridiculously hard to find good info on this conflict because everyone is so biased in their presentation of the “facts.” Glad to see Destiny at least trying to bring some level of objectivity.
Yeah but even he is biased. Example: Goldstein didn't represent the IDF nor Israel as a whole. Yes, some extremists praised him but the Israeli government condemned his actions. Destiny conveniently left that out. Take the Palestinian side on the other hand, when a so called "freedom fighter" commits atrocities against Israelis they are praised almost universally by all Arabs, the PA/PLO (and Hamas for that matter) even awards them for it.
@@onichuanwe all have biases. Also, I noticed that the less informed people are the more one sided the opinions. The sad thing is that there is no end of the conflict and calling terrorists “freedom fighters” or ignoring some of the realities of what is going on with settlements is not getting us closer to peace.
@@knoef82 Yes and that bias should be the good of mankind.
The Palestinians will not accept a two-state solution regardless of any settlements or legitimate claims to the land. They want all of the land to be theirs and establish an Islamic state much like Iran. After that they will continue their work on the rest of the world to fall under Islamic dictatorship.
Not true. Any university has nearly all the books on the topic. Just start reading.
@@deficrypto1234maybe if you live near a university. I live out in the middle of nowhere haha
For anyone interested, (37:00ish for reference) German tech at the start of WW2 was pretty good, but not like leagues above the rest. For example - the French tanks in WW2 were actually pretty comparable, the reason the Blitzkrieg was so successful was that the Germans organized their tanks into an armor division and spearheaded a smaller area, while the French had their tanks dispersed more evenly across their infantry groups.
Tech wise tho, at least during the invasion of France, they did have better aircraft. Only around the time of Germany's bombings in Britain did they start to get a meaningful number of Spitfires (UK's WW2 fighter that was better than Germany's Messerschmitt fighter) online
Now Destiny's take on Hitler trusting his generals is mostly correct (early on) but it wasn't total trust like "Hey get to Paris, make it happen bois"
I don't remember his name, but the German commander that lead the attack through Belgium, was ordered to take Belgium, then hold and wait for the infantry to catch up before moving towards Paris, but in the moment he made the decision "Fuck that" and kept going through France, which was a huge success.
And as he says - that's my understanding, if I'm wrong feel free to reply and let me know.
You said something really profound. That the far left have a different moral standard for those they deem oppressed vs those they consider oppressor. I had someone tell me that black people can’t be racist because they are oppressed, even if a black person kills a white person and the black person says they committed the murder because they hate white people . This person told me that they would not consider the black person racist but instead they would consider them prejudice, which is wild. I figured that we had different definitions of racist but your statement about different moral standards hit the nail right on the head and the difference in definition is a difference is what is considered oppression in America in 2023. Thanks for your insight.
Simplifying things into a binary 'good vs bad groups' helps to reduce the amount of thinking required to evaluate the world and events occurring in it. Thinking too much and analyzing situations is seen by many as 'painful', and this ignorance and prejudice helps to reduce this pain. Trying to educate someone or making them see outside of their caricature of morality could be seen as a 'painful attack' and could cause great anger in those who buy into these 1 dimensional world views to avoid thinking.
"You said something really profound. That the far left have a different moral standard for those they deem oppressed vs those they consider oppressor."
That's not profound at all; the left themselves have been arguing _for_ that different moral standard for a long time. Their entire point, their entire meta-argument, is that there _should_ be a different moral standard for oppressor vs. oppressed, _and I even agree with them, because it's not reasonable to expect the aggressed to be held to the same exact moral standards as the aggressor because there is different contexts at play_ , the problem is, they've been lying about Conflict Theory and who it applies to, from the start.
Judeans lost the war to the Babylonians
But because it's their "promised land" in their religion, it somehow gives them the right to occupy the territory and expel those living their since then?
Doesn't make sense.
@@johnj3027 And now the Palestinians are losing the war against Israel, and they're complaining about it.
Doesn't make sense.
@StupidAnon-gn8ih oh right, like what the Germans did to the Jews! Right right right... males sense
Destiny should release or post a copy of the notes he’s taking somewhere, so that other people can use them to get informed. I know I would appreciate the opportunity to read it all and educate myself.
that's classified
make your own notes. listening to anyone esp. destiny who is just as uniformed as any other leftist is stupid.
In his last stream destiny said that he is going to organize them and then post them but didnt mention when that will happen since he is going to ?debatecon?
It’s not a manifesto about an orbiter so it won’t be public.
I was there, and it was bad. The level of conversation at the Union tends to drop when controvertial people are invited, because everyone wants to speak, so the usual people dont ask questions. I was expecting a committee member to at least call him out some of these things, but i don't think any of them spoke. It's a shame he didn't participate in one of the organised debates, it's much better when there is oreparation involved. The president did a decent job with her questions before the open q&a though, I recommend you watch that video. I'll give credit to Shapiro, he's really good at debating, people underestimate him and end up lokking like idiots.
The interviewer seemed biased. Is she a devotee of the social justice religion?
Why were the people that were picked even picked? They were rude and uninformed. Did they pull there social justice muslin female cards and win out?
I dont think Shapiro is a good debater he just usually sticks to debating uneducated or unprepared people
@tiktokexposed898 Potentially, but his prep and ability to put you in his world-view is impressive. Everyone at the Union is well-eduted/read, it's just I feel like they underestimate how good he is and fall in his traps. It's a lot different talking to him in person than watching his debates after the fact too.
@@generalgrievous6689 i mean in that sense he is good just like alot of ideologues, like Myron from fresh n fit. but thats because they are never really challenged on there ideas from someone well researched and prepared to debate them. almost all their debates are against laymen
@@tiktokexposed898 You don't need to be a good debater if you know the facts.
I don’t think he’s right about Afghanistan. Destroying the Taliban for their support of Al Qaeda was valid, we just suffered a political failure when they relocated to Pakistan (a the Taliban did a really incredible job of running an insurgency). And Bin Laden was in Afghanistan when we invaded. The failure was in not destroying the Taliban and shifting to a nation building mission, which even in itself wasn’t bad, but did give the initiative to the enemy. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same.
I don't think shifting to nation building was the core problem. The Iraq war diverted a lot of funds and expertise away from Afghanistan, giving the Taliban a chance to make a comeback. Plus nation building was focused on urban centres, whereas the majority of the Afghan population lived in rural areas.
Pakistan also didn't help
@@AbyssWatcher745Pakistan is what keeps me awake a night. They’ll be the downfall of civilization if they sell nukes to Iran
Dude; the C1A blew up the World Trade Center.
@@exiledhebrew1994 Pretty sure that wasn't a Grumman C1A Trader that hit the World Trade Center. That's a prop plane with a very distinct profile.
Destiny takes it even further beyond. He stops the video and just provides 5 more dimensions of argumentation for both sides before playing another argument from the debate. That's fucking huuge!
Her lack of knowledge and/or prep for this debate is embarrassing.
Maybe because she’s a college kid??
@@ebtehalq7362 Just because you are a college kids doesn't mean you have to be a complete and utter idiot.
@@ebtehalq7362she is an adult who had time to prep her argument beforehand as Ben’s topic was clear before he got to the school. Stop making excuses.
@@TyTeaStrings just because she’s a legal adult doesn’t mean that she’s fully capable or old enough to engage with those types of arguments- obviously the 40 year old that has been doing this for ages and is very good at playing and manipulating the narrative is gonna win over the 19-20 year old
@@TyTeaStringsBffr 😂
Presenting the “march of return” as a peaceful demonstration is wild.
One thing Egypt did during the six day war was immediately lie to their allies about the loss of their air force on the first day, thanks a lot Nasser 😂
Yeah I was just reading about that he really screwed over the Jordanians and Syrians, though idk how much of a difference it ended up making.
Israel’s current National Security Minister, Itamar Ben-Gvir. Has consistently made comments over the years praising and defending Baruch Goldstein, making speeches in front of memorials to him, etc.
When he joined politics in 2020 he made other parties mad because he had a picture of Baruch Goldstein hanging up in his living room, he agreed to take it down in a statement but specifically said it was only to make the coalition gov happy.
Israel has some pretty hardcore extremists in their government right now and it isn’t just symbolic positions.
Barush was SO BASED, common W Israel
It's funny how they've somehow convinced normie Democrats to support them. I look at the MSNBC comment sections sometimes and can't really believe what I am seeing.
@@CrusaderGeorgeWBush Hm so now terrorism is based?
@@mrmoonlight1001 and lgbtq commies now support hamas, who are anticommuniste and antigay
🫵🏻😂
What do you expect when you have tried to pursue peace for 75-years but arabs act like angry toddlers and refuse to have it even when offer is favoring them.
12:45 It's hard being the blueprint for everyone else. England was the first major power to see slavery as the moral rot it is, and they lost blood and coin to stop the slave trade. It's insane how people dismiss this major event or ignore it. This went against all of human history.
Her number of dead argument is bullshit. Lets say your neighbor tries to kill you 9 times a day, but keeps failing. Are you not allowed to fight back unless they kill you first? Because if you did, and you killed them, the amount of deaths would be greater on your neighbors side and you would become the bad guy?
Hamas apologists: 'why are you focussing on this innocent girl that we butchered and paraded through the streets?'
Good to see people talk about some real topics. Not just moral grandstand.
You made Destiny look 50 years old in the thumbnail :D
Im tired of August tearing down black queens.
Expecting 19yo students to have anything other than 19yo student arguments. I dont know about anyone else, but sometimes I think my brain didn't even start working until I was 25.
I learned about the british hitting dresden in highschool. Oxford is the harvard of britian by status and even more. a student like her suppose to be top notch in knowledge and debating.
@@polpol2739 I would have definitely expected her to have known about the allied bombing campaigns, but all you need to get into Oxford is A* in like 5 A Levels. If you don't take history as one of the 5 then that means you stopped learning history at 16yo, and that's assuming you took history as GCSE. You could potentially stop studying history at 14/15 if you don't take it. History classes in year 11 and below are real surface level, I don't recall learning about Dresden until after I left school. Maybe things have changed since I was at school though, I'm in my 30s.
@@polpol2739 If you're part of a 'debate team' at Oxford then you better know most things about past major conflicts. No excuse really. These people are supposed to be the elite amongst the ordinary masses lol.
and them being our elites is why the west is heading to the shitter@@chaz__
this history suppose to be basic to every highschooler. its a big event in history@@itsmarmalade
I hope destiny keeps fine tuning is political thoughts. His ability to not submit to a party and view things independently and rationally is so important today
My introduction to the "pretty poster child" was pretty wild. Shortly after the images started making rounds on Twitter, someone misidentified her as the daughter of one of their political enemies and from there, every follow-up post was in celebration and pushing for necrophelia. The amount of, "(censor) her dead body again!" was crazy af!
I need to get away from the dark side of Twitter forest and find my way to more humane pastures. Sheesh
"Hitler trusted his generals a lot"
As someone who loves WW2 history this makes me mald a little lol
Ben wins again. Destiny takes one step forward and then two steps backwards
Of course there is an opposite side to being a war hawk. You can "peace" your country out of existence.
Explain further.
Sure. The world stage respects strength. Many of those Arab countries only respect it in regards to international relations. If you are too weak, you can easily be manipulated by other countries. Not to mention the strife from within. South Koreans are seen generally peaceful by us, but could go extinct along with other Asian cultures that have essentially convinced their men to be cucked work machines. Peace, as with everything, has it's limits. Fun is only fun inside of borders. The reason childhood is so fun is because you get to explore right to the edge of those borders, but it's the adults who maintain your saftey. Peace is the same way. It must be protected by a strength that is superior to the forces against it. You can only have peace within the parameters of strength. Airbenders tried to be peaceful and weak and look what happened to them lol. Taking the teeth from a dog may prevent it from biting, but it also prevents it from eating.
@@EricTitansSmith give an example of being manipulated by other countries (pretend I’m clueless, here, which I am) also what do you mean by “go extinct”? Invasion by another, more tyrannical regime? Like North Korea?
@@claytonkramer7234 Tiktok is truly a perfect example. If you told anyone pre 1960 that a Chinese company that is owned by the government in China has access to the thoughts of millions of Americas, that would be seen as a catastrophe. That app can see anything it wantsm it can track your typing off app and knows whatever you've looked up. That is an external security threat a strong America would never tolerate. However, because of our youths obsession with it and our unwillingness to directly say the interest of China is the weakening of America, our weakness allows this to continue. Our weakness presents as a kind of radical anti racism in which you convince people it's racist to prevent illegal immigration, despite the fact that 200 of our citizen died from fentanyl in 2022. That's a big part of the existential threat our weakness exposes. We have no inherent belief that our values are superior, and if we stay that way we are destined to lose to extremism. The way to combat extremism is not through peace alone. Peace, in an ideal situation, is the byproduct of a dogmatic belief in a set of ideas we believe to be morally just. But wait...HAMAS fits that description! 100%. The difference is what are those values and what fruit did they bare. In America's case, those fruits were religious freedom, womens rights, gay rights, ect. In the case of HAMAS, rape, murder, and destruction.
One word:
Appeasement
Destiny isn't that good at debate, Palestine has an established government elected by the people, Hamas, and Hamas could have formed a state by now, many nations have been trying to help them, Hamas refuses, they want the Jews exterminated, the status quo wanting Palestine gone isn't an argument because the facts don't bare that out, if Hamas wanted a state they could have had one by now, they aren't interested.
I found someone saying it would be better if Hamas had Israel’s nuclear weapons 😂 this conflict has rotted peoples brains
I saw a tiktok of a girl buying nukes from putin to glass Israel. Its getting wild out there
They would nuke themselves and blame israel for global outrage
I like the part where he had to describe that the special forces are not literally Warhammer 40k space marines.
We found the missing legion, praise the rabbi-emperor
Destiny really uniromically said: "Okay, good, at least Ben knows enough about this conflict to know that" Omg thats the craziest thing I've ever heard. Ben knows infinitely more about this than Destiny scrambling to read wiki articles, jeeeeez
clapping at the numbers of deaths is kinda wild lol
Outside of the west (sorta), it's easy to forget how vindictive and petty and wrathful people can be.
Through the lens of human history, microagressions are the best offense in comparison lmao
I guess this is one of the main reasons why achieving peace with Pa.lestinians and pro P.alestinians is so difficult, a lot of them believe that peace will only exist once I.srael stops existing.
Destiny watching Shapiro on increased speed is so funny to me.
I remember reading about a british pilot that "got lost" and ended up bombing a German city. This provoked the Germans into bombing civilian targets and actually helped Britain because its airforce was then able to rebuild.
i finally see it, debates are just like a starcraft match
I can't wait to watch their debate in 2X speed.
How do you know when leaks are only one sided?
I generally agree about partisan motivated leaks being damaging. But isn't better to make the litmus test be truth, and assume both sides are working on exposing the other side?
These pro Hamas people are insane I saw a comment with over like 2k likes that was like comparing Ben Shapiro to a Nazi is a insult to nazis
2x speed Ben is how quantum mechanics was found.
is there a copy of Destiny's notes somewhere? or his recording of his live feed when he was researching all of it?
Regarding Goldstein, Destiny: Goldstein was widely denounced in Israel and by communities in the Jewish diaspora,[6] with many attributing his act to insanity.[7] Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Rabin condemned the attack, describing Goldstein as a "degenerate murderer" and "a shame on Zionism and an embarrassment to Judaism".
Poor Destinys Mom! Catching strays from the son 😂😂😂
Yeah his mom is crazy lol
The destiny vs Shapiro debate is long overdue….
“He makes it sound like it is only Palestinian violence.”
No. Ben says that 95% of the violence was from Palestinians against Jews.
When Sam says Israel could have wiped out everyone, and Destiny says this is "kinda" true but Israel needs support from America, I think Destiny misses the point, Sam isn't saying they could wipe out everyone and not see any backlash, he is saying that given the same power, if Hamas had the same power as Israel, they would wipe out Israel regardless of the ramifications, and Israel is clearly not that insane.
lol
"everyone is arguing about it so I'm just like going to learn *the entire israeli-palestinian conflict fuck it* "
Based.
He is going through the same arc I had in 2014. I grew up with a lot of muslims friends and I was against Israel without knowing why. Anti semitic language was so normalised in my circles. Basically using Jew as a cussword like how gay was used on the internet not even a decade ago.
I was so ignorant
@@Naalders as an israeli i can really appreciate that. I also grew up with biases that I confronted as I grew older, it takes work and is part of life. It is sad that we can't all recognize each other as people just trying to live our lives.
I love it when a video I was gonna watch yesterday but didn’t shows up here.
Does anyone know how I can get the research document thingy that Destiny got in the background? (the notes in obsidian)
It is unreal to hear Destiny say Iraq/Afghanistan was the result of civilians being stupid, as though the government didn't do everything in their power to convince the public invading these countries was necessary.
Not to mention people were getting their news from like 6 sources so it wasn’t as hard to control the narrative back then. Not to mention the crazy cancellations of people speaking against the war. Nebraska Steve really comes out with how biased he is with his defense of US gov and the leaders.
He was saying the leaders were acting like stupid civilians, and not being leaders. Destiny was pretty clear in stating that a leader would step back, put their emotions aside, and find a better and even revolutionary way forward. His entire point was about how leaders end a cycle of violence, and hate.
@@grandgibbon2071 you should relisten because that’s not what he said
@@michaelturley3457 I know listening comprehension is hard, but you should listen to the entire segment closer.
Invading Afghanistan was 100% necessary but the US should have declared victory and withdrew before the end of the Obama administration. The US didn’t go to Afghanistan to nation build or because we objected the way the Taliban ruled. The United States went to Afghanistan for its own national security. In 2001 Afghanistan was an international terrorist haven and the base of operations of al qaeda. The United States destroyed that international terrorist haven, got the people responsible for 9/11 and prevented another 9/11. Despite the Taliban running Afghanistan again now the Afghanistan intervention was necessary and was a success for the United States because the national security objectives were met and again the US should have declared victory and withdrew before the end of 2016. It’s unfortunate that the afghan government couldn’t hold its own without Americans troops but for nearly 20 years US troops upheld it. And yes it’s true that the US troops could have stayed for as long as the US wanted and there’s nothing the Taliban or anyone could have fucking down about it but that doesn’t mean they should have. I feel bad for the oppression there, especially against women but that’s not why we sent our boys there. And the failure of the afghan government is not he failure of the United States. The Taliban is an idea and unfortunately Afghanistan is a long way from getting away from such ideas.
I really appreciate you taking the time to also debunk conservative talking points. I really want to try to get a more balanced viewpoint on this, but find it really hard when the root of this most recent conflict was the targeted raping and murdering of civilian men, women and children.
Modern popular leftist viewpoints such as Hasan's are fucking wild and biased (baby settlers, hospital bombing shenanigans etc), and honestly, the louder support for Palestine over Israel Immediately after Oct 7th were so disgusting to me, I don't know if I could ever even consider the left as the "becon of fairness" as I did in my early/mid twenties
Anywhoo, you cool bro
This Hasan is even for leftists rather extreme. There is also BadEmpanada and LonerBox. Both pro Palestinian and very biased.
Yes, I agree, Destiny is cool.
The conflict has been going on for over 100 years. October 7 was just the worst atrocity so far.
@@harpagornis Lonerbox is extremely biased but at least he argues from some facts. but he justifies some Palestinian violence because of their suffering, except he really has an issue extending the same logic to Israelis who have suffered through countless terror attacks throughout the ENTIRE conflict only until recently in the early 2000's where they built the checkpoints and a wall which massively reduced the number of attacks. except now they're being called an apartheid state for it. but people act like these were there forever.
I agree with you, Lonerbox has the least extreme views. Hasan is a joke.@@ghosthunter0950
That meds crack was gold!😂
cool that there's "dove" to counter "hawk". same joy i felt when i first heard "steel-man" to counter "straw-man"
hearing destiny talk about history is pretty funny sometimes
Im so glad dest holds himself to such a higher standard then these clowns😤 definitely rubs off on me
I know, I’ve actually become one of the best people on earth since I started watching him. 😂😜
@michaelturley3457 wouldnt go that far 😅
Is there a link to the research document of Destiny?
You should make your own video of the timeline of this conflict
A guy in sitting in his room all day can be a cool guy but this guy is literally in another world
I'm amazed at how well Destiny covers this issue. Informed, takes stops to educates himself on stuff he doesn't know, takes clear moral stands, criticizes Israel when necessary. Wonderful.
hey dgg fam, at 18:52, which word processing application is destiny using on the right of the screen? thanks in advance!
I’ve never seen anyone increase the speed of one of Ben’s videos before. 😂
He doesn’t have hindsight like you destiny.
He is answering the Q&A and staying as close to it as possible so chill
Im actually surprised Destiny's never heard of Doves like im pretty sure in 8th grade or maybe 9th grade we learned about Hawks & Doves during Vietnam. The pro Vietnam War politicians were labeled as hawks & the anti Vietnam War politicians were labeled Doves
Yeah. Didn't they use both terms in the news, all the time, post 9/11 when Bush was sending troops to Iraq? And it was used even more during Desert Storm.
@AliceBowie I think so, I was a kid around that time so watching the news wasn't exactly my top priority but I know at some point the Democrats & Republicans both were laughably dumb. In 1 of my history classes we listened to current events & basically it turned into "you're a hawk because you did XYZ" with the response being "oh really because you did XYZ too under your administration" I'm paraphrasing a lot but you get my point (I think this had to be around the Obama administration)
It’s because Destiny is a charlatan (who only debates other charlatans)
Destiny doesn't know a lot, since he mainly debates morons and only gathers enough information to counter basic talking points.
Barukh Goldstien was an individual who didnt have the support of the government. He was condemned by the israeli public. What he did was considered criminal.
When Shapiro says “Dove”, he’s saying that leader was someone who bent over backwards to make peace. It’s not an insult.
Yeah okay buddy
Yeah agree with Destiny on the numbers of death argument criticism. Numbers are not necessarily emotionally charged statements, but rather the associations and narrative/frame around the numbers.
Arguing from the frame 'Hamas are right because of what happened after world war 2 duh duh duh....... ' is not the frame you want to debate from, but rather the frame 'I agree that Hamas needs removing due to their actions but THE WAY Israel are going about it is not the way' was probably the proper frame choice that the muslim woman could have used against Ben. She's an amateur and Ben is a pro at debates, so of course he was going to smoke her. Beat him in a game he cannot play, rather than beat him in the game he is a master at.
I remember watching Nightline with Ted Koppel cover the Rabin assassination. Fall of the Berlin Wall with Peter Jennings and Rabin with Koppel. 2 moments seared into my mind from a young age. It all turns so fast while we think it does not turn at all.
Destiny is missing Sam Harris' point when he says Israel would lose the US support if they genocided Palestine. The point Sam Harris is making is that Israel is incentivised not to genocide a whole country (the cause of the incentive isn't the issue, it's that there is an incentive).
I'm gonna conclooooood
18:56 Maybe She’s also the poster child because there was a video of her, laying dead in a truck, being spit on by your beloved Palestinian people 🤯🤡
Have not watched more than 5 min, have seen 5 ads already!
11:09 Destiny brings up their 'Samson Option' lol he's more red pilled than he puts on.
Talking about the facts and leaks from one side - just guess, whose archives are open and whose are not?
It would be so cool, if when Ben and Destiny debate, that they would trade turns helping one another, like putting the other person on their shoulders so they could pick fruit for the first time. Bonding experience.
I can’t wait for the Methstiny vs Shapiro debate
damn i finally can hear the wind LUL your windows are leaking or something haha
You´re thinking they may have selective memories? 23:51
How about people in the west not realizing what it's like to live the experience they're living.
We've forgotten or never experienced the realities of the state that Israel(and Palestine) are in.
It's the thing where people bring up 'lol but Israel has the iron dome, so they can't really claim anything about the missile attacks against them, look at how many casualties there are in gaza' and have never experienced the rain of missile shards or just the night sky lighting up with rockets that are aimed at them.
Maybe the Israeli government should have stopped the blockade in Gaza years ago then, and gave them the right to self govern, the right to free travel and the right to self determination. They wouldn't have had to fire any rockets at Israel for their freedom. People are so clueless on this - you occupy a land / a nation / a people they are going to fucking resist and they have every legal and moral right on this earth to do so.
man destiny is a smart guy. glad he's here to spit actual knowledge and facts. it's insane people choose hasan over destiny lol
Hasan rules. Would be an outside predicted
Netanyahu was also wounded himself in a special forces op on one of the hijacked planes
hi, why did’t you bring all this stuff to your debate with Ben?
Probably the best take on Israel Palestine I've heard, u have based takes I don't agree with u on almost everything but ur fair and tend to b a good left wing reference for regular dems not the radicals portrayed on media