Who are Lucifer and Satan: SMT Lore

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  • Опубликовано: 21 ноя 2024

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  • @Tony4You
    @Tony4You  Год назад +69

    Join the discord: discord.gg/KfEKUZDnpn
    Leave any thoughts or video suggestions here!

    • @Elite_Teach
      @Elite_Teach Год назад +1

      You should do a vid on some Norse Gods like Odin

    • @dorjedriftwood2731
      @dorjedriftwood2731 Год назад

      The hold of lies is psychologically demonstratable, identity and idea are strongly interlinked lies in and of themselves are capable of blinding anyone if you lend them faith. Faith and belief are degrees of self commitment and the cost of disbelief is a loss of the commitment or investment of self, ie existential pain or loss of self, ie the pain of fear of death. People fear death and so they will grip any belief that they are sufficiently invested in regardless of truth and they will willfully destroy the truth for fear of being destroyed by the loss of self.
      Not sure if you follow as I am dissatisfied with my explanation but my point is the text describing satans influence is describing the effect of pride of knowing better, when people believe they alone understand the truth it lifts people into a state of seeming transcendence where they are immune to their own faults and so feel divine. You can observe this in people when they believe they know something others don’t, they will act as if they are special, if they are wrong they will fight you in some way if you point out their mistakes. This is essentially the greatest and last temptation of man as much of the pleasure religious and virtuous people feel is a sense of exaltation of being privy to something transcendent which they are but when they ignore the fact that they are fallible regardless of their station they become attached more to the feeling of exaltation and less to faith and the virtue of humble. Therefore they allow the very medicine which has exalted them to become a poison of downfall through being attatched to the effect of the light of truth rather than the ultimate goal of supreme servitude to virtue and truth in God.
      Again this is not solely a religious notion anytime you feel self satisfaction at understanding something others don’t you can witness the effect of this pride on your character, you can see how it makes you more difficult to communicate with and how it makes you callous and dissimissive of other points of view. The lie is that you can understand anything at all that is divine or “truth” in its entirety (in a way accounting for all the arguments and data points) from a single limited human perspective. The notion or moral being that people will only ever have a single limited point of view and cannot firmly settle on any set of ideas without ignoring some datapoints that are apparently contradictions. It doesn’t matter if the omission of facts or datapoints is willful ignorance or oversight the minute you believe you are capable of understanding something in full, you will feel a sense of pride and accomplishment in understanding that notion and that will then create a point of weakness where you will create a conflict in service to an idea regardless if you are right or wrong because it is a point of pleasure to know what you know. Your investment in your identity as someone who knows will cause You as a being to feel threatened. Our sense of personal investment of self service extends to any idea that bolsters our sense of being special. It doesn’t matter if that sense of being special is in suffering or bliss humans value a personal identity as if it where themselves and will attack others in apparent defense of self when in fact they are just defending an idea.
      We guard our ideas when they make us feel unique in our understanding regardless of if they are actually true or not or how true they are. We guard them as if they were our bodies or souls when they are just words. This is pride, the ability to mistakenly invest our sense of truth and justice in our intellect or egotistical sense of personal identity. Human beings fail to recognize self satisfaction as the inswell of pride and so we accumulate ideas as a sort of social buoyant. This is actually one reason why calling people stupid is a useful way of dismissing people as you can feel superior to others merely through a sense of understanding more regardless of what that person has over you. They can be more beautiful, stronger, wealthier and more popular etc etc. and yet still we can dismiss them simply for not comprehending ideas. That is how powerful lies or misunderstandings are we can derrive a sense of righteousness simply by feeling we know more. This is the obstacle to service of God as service to religious notions can swiftly turn to service in self without our recognition as the blessings of God and the swelling of pride in our chest both feel similar. Except on who is humble before Gods greatness, ie one who understands his knowledge of truth can never reach the ultimate summation of knowledge will inherently know they are wrong because they cannot possibly understand the whole, they are always limited in comprehension and so guard themselves from downfall by being open to other perspectives ie by not investigating themselves in their intelligence and so keeping open to being wrong. Being open to being wrong eliminates the pain of loss that occurs when we believe ourselves to be right and our confronted with some truth we overlooked, a humble person is curious to understand what they have missed a prideful person will create conflict and worse to guard their position of superior knowledge. The tale of Lucifer regardless of its religious context is also an allegory for how the most righteous are also the most vulnerable to the temptation of pride because that self satisfaction of knowing and the satisfaction of knowing God are very close in feeling when they are initially felt, it isn’t til pride has a hold on us that we start to feel the corruption that comes from fighting for ideas as if they were the ultimate truth and synonyms for who and what we are. All ideas are the original source of conflict in any war and it is our servitude to our sense of preservation of the good that makes us feel righteous when we fight for ideas. Yet fighting for ideas will increasingly result in every ill and heap shame upon us and others in the end and fighting for morality and virtue will never cause us to form regret nor heap shame on those that know us. Only by observing our initial self satisfaction or by being mindful of our defensiveness when we are confr😢with differing points of view can we guard ourselves from turning the medicine of truth into the poison of guarding lies. Atleast that is until your religious sense can come to a point where conflict is seen as an evil outright and then you will understand creating pain in others regardless of how right you are is still wrong. Then that extra buffer against pride is also present as you can also be mindful of a third step of entering into conflict and let the pride go a little later in the causal chain. In any case the notion is that any truth can be a source of arrogance and that arrogance leads you astray, to covet your own notion of what is true is to make any idea no matter how truthful into a lie. This is why people despise Christianity as many Christians see it as their religious duty to act in anger when they see lies but if that anger causes harm you will end up seen as the villain and you will pervert your sense of living in truth into a blank check to heap scorn upon others, and so in guarding your sense of morality you have chucked Christs and all visions of divinity on earth which always involve grace love and forgiveness as a living example out the window in exchange for feeling a sense of servitude to the truth. In point of fact you have actually created yourself as a servant of God as an idol. You see your service to some scripture as the ultimate truth instead of remaining in contact with grace. I would submit it is in almost every single circumstance impossible to do harm and remain in grace love and forgiveness yet people will mistakenly profess godliness while openly persecute people for disagreement. When it is that faithful persons job to lead the mistaken to truth as Christ did instead people cast others out as devils not for evil but for the false sin of not knowing, instead of winning people with love they scorn people for not being in the know, instead of educating people via example they attack others as their example while shouting scripture at them. This is the pride of service to ideas in the absence of godliness. It can happen to any religious person regardless of their sainthood right until the end, that is why pride is the ultimate sin because it perverts the very mechanisms that guard you from evil as a vehicle to mandate any evil. That is why it is the final and ultimate obstacle to salvation because it can turn anyone who knows the truth to mandate their own downfall by being attached to their intellectual understanding rather than the incomprehensible actual truth which is an ever present light of limitless knowledge. Rather than idea which is merely a small ray spark or piece of that greater light that cannot ever be possessed it can only be lived in via surrender to it. When people dwell in that light they feel they are lifted up, that can go to their head and they begun to identify with their station rather than their function in servitude and down they go. Any idea when we are attached to it can be falsely perceived as sacred or so close to us that we feel threaten ourselves when the notion is under threat our our sense of defending ourselves is lent to defending a notion and that notion being ephemeral can seem transcendent right unto the moment we snap out of our defensive rage and realize the harm we have done in service of nothing but a notion. A notion being no thing at all.

    • @Dahaka-rd6tw
      @Dahaka-rd6tw Год назад

      Can you do video on Digital DFevil Saga's enemy atma avatars?

    • @raymondwright7692
      @raymondwright7692 Год назад

      Satan is referred to as Lucifer because he's a shining one. Jesus is also called shining one. It's a title.

    • @happymate8943
      @happymate8943 Год назад +2

      @@raymondwright7692
      The name "Lucifer" is a insult towards a Babylonian king and not a angel.

  • @zombieslaya3456
    @zombieslaya3456 Год назад +609

    As someone who knew they were different but never knew what made them different or how they were associated with each other, this was nice to know.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +28

      Always happy when my videos are helpful

    • @Bajannubian095
      @Bajannubian095 Год назад +2

      Before satan fall his name was Lucifer

    • @happymate8943
      @happymate8943 Год назад +4

      Somthing to note is that the name "Lucifer " was more of insult towards to Babylonian king and not a angel falling.

    • @comar619
      @comar619 Год назад

      Wrong. Lucifer means "morning star" or "light Bringer". Your definition is the scientific name for the planet Venus rising.@oTomahuK8945

    • @ghosteyes2708
      @ghosteyes2708 7 месяцев назад

      @@Bajannubian095 No. Lucifer is a greco-roman god. Not a fallen angel. Think about it, all angels have hebrew names but for some reason Satan had a latin name?

  • @jasonblundelldobebussing
    @jasonblundelldobebussing Год назад +663

    Biblical Scholars when they play SMT: ah yes, my years weren't spent for nothing 😎

    • @renren47618
      @renren47618 Год назад +1

      Smt fans when they happen to go to church be like: Is this a motherfucking SMT reference?!

    • @jasonblundelldobebussing
      @jasonblundelldobebussing Год назад +46

      @@renren47618, SMT fans during the Intercession: ayo, _YHVH,_ can I get a law ending?

    • @ltb1345
      @ltb1345 Год назад +19

      @@jasonblundelldobebussing We do need a Law or Chaos ending to happen IRL at this point, TBH.

    • @jasonblundelldobebussing
      @jasonblundelldobebussing Год назад +10

      @@ltb1345, facts

    • @krimsonkatt
      @krimsonkatt Год назад +10

      @@ltb1345 Ether Law+ or Chaos+ from SJR is good for me. Law+ creates world peace and Chaos+ revolutionizes technology and culture, turns me into a cute fairy girl, and I get all my monster girl waifus made real. Either way it's a win/win.

  • @dreddick1235
    @dreddick1235 Год назад +849

    “Lucifer is described to have been the most beautiful creature on earth”
    SMTIV Lucifer:

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +207

      Yep, one of the main reasons I don't like SMTIV's depictions very much lol

    • @gabrielhughes8221
      @gabrielhughes8221 Год назад +19

      Not on earth

    • @dantemustdie00
      @dantemustdie00 Год назад +29

      @@Tony4You Yeah that version can burn out of my memory for all I care

    • @nr2676
      @nr2676 Год назад +16

      Alien Lucifer (SMT IV) and Metatron Lucifer (SMT V)

    • @fojisan2398
      @fojisan2398 Год назад +2

      Alien man

  • @simeonwashington9995
    @simeonwashington9995 Год назад +343

    I love the wordplay of Satan being an adversary or obstacle in the way. He often does this in the name of YHVH a lot in the games. And I also like how Michael is the ultimate counter to Lucifer with his name meaning "who is like God/El?". Really enjoyed this video!

    • @lenleon3699
      @lenleon3699 Год назад +36

      I mean, when you read the actual passages in the Bible there never has been a single one that equates Satan, Lucifer and the Devil as one being. It was more modern religious dogma who often conflated them all into one being.

    • @jonnylawless6797
      @jonnylawless6797 Год назад +4

      Ha-satan literally meant "the accuser"

    • @kyuketsukirook
      @kyuketsukirook Год назад +6

      In SMT 1 Michael is the one of the final bosses on Neutral and the final boss on Chaos representing the Law alignment. Him being the one who fought Lucifer, I just realized it makes sense for Michael to be the Law faction's champion in a game series where Lucifer leads the forces of Chaos.

    • @gabrielmatthews9494
      @gabrielmatthews9494 Год назад +2

      Michael is God, in the form of an angel. He and Lucifer were covering cherub. Ezekiel 28:12-17. Michael is the only angel that is worshipped. Joshua 5:13-15, Exodus 3:1-5, Daniel 10:13, 21, Daniel 12:1, Revelation 12:7-9

    • @GhostzinZ
      @GhostzinZ 2 месяца назад

      ​@@gabrielmatthews9494 bullshit

  • @tibersulla2305
    @tibersulla2305 Год назад +389

    Learning that "Satan" basically means "opposition", and that it is also a tittle bestowed on many in favour or "opposition" to God instead of a single entity, made things so much clear...
    Fells like cracking a code.
    Amazing video, always look forward to these illuminating works blessed sir.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +24

      Thanks so much. The one thing I learned while making these videos is that there is always something more to learn

    • @ellytorty
      @ellytorty Год назад +2

      The word name Satan was never mentioned untill jesus story time and the satan word is english they did not speak english at that time

    • @Beastlango
      @Beastlango Год назад

      It can also be translated to be accuser, which was part of the Israelites judicial system. Almost like a prosecutor, this would imply that he tells all of our sins to the father to try and damn us along side him. It’s another interesting angle to it

    • @mosampson8862
      @mosampson8862 Год назад +1

      Learning that Satan means "adversary" IS like cracking the code! Lucifer is not our adversary!

    • @shef8764
      @shef8764 11 месяцев назад +1

      ​@@mosampson8862yes he is

  • @Kiri68419
    @Kiri68419 Год назад +176

    So TLDR Lucifer is a Satan but not every Satan is lucifer

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +44

      More or less

    • @captainoofmerica2478
      @captainoofmerica2478 8 месяцев назад +17

      Got to love the classic “Every poltergeist is a ghost but not every ghost is a poltergeist”- Spider-man

    • @DarkAdonisVyers
      @DarkAdonisVyers 2 месяца назад

      @@Tony4You TROLLSTIN13 doesn't have the brain capacity to understand that, though.

  • @TheSwordsman100
    @TheSwordsman100 Год назад +57

    Its funny, by denying Lucifer's version in SMT the title of Satan and instead making said title a completely different character based on all holders of said title, from a certain point of view Atlus is giving the Devil one of the best disses in all of fiction, that he will never be God's ultimate adversary. Directly denying his pride.

    • @grambortino
      @grambortino 8 месяцев назад +1

      Why would Lucifer want to be called Satan? It's not as if he's being denied anything. You act as if it's "his" title that he's supposed to own alone instead of a word meaning opposer. You can't have such a poor grasp on what the video was about, can you? And it's not Atlus dissing anything, it's just Kaneko giving his interpretation of these various biblical entities. Not conflicting at all

    • @TheSwordsman100
      @TheSwordsman100 8 месяцев назад +9

      @@grambortino
      Thats rich coming from someone who obviously has a poor grasp in understanding my comment. Something 20 other people was able to do.

  • @eyalamit5120
    @eyalamit5120 Год назад +66

    After playing more SMT games specifically apocalypse and Q1, I actually recognize the tracks you are using.

    • @LimitBreakr424
      @LimitBreakr424 Год назад +12

      Every time I hear Apocalypse world map theme I get excite

    • @westonmeyer3110
      @westonmeyer3110 Год назад +1

      He is also using a track from Devil Survivor 2.

  • @LordDio
    @LordDio Год назад +110

    Satan is undoubtedly a biblical character, but Lucifer's existence is more heavily debated due to translation errors, the time gap between old and new testament, and the canonicity of texts such as the gospels. Our understanding of him is still relatively modern, as he became much more popular after John Milton published Paradise Lost (this is where the idea of Lucifer and Satan being the same character at different times is established, as well as the basis for him as the serpent who tempted Eve)

    • @ellytorty
      @ellytorty Год назад +3

      And that lucifer satan story has a flaw we will still find if we live to the times given by daniel and moses

    • @chozolady
      @chozolady 10 месяцев назад

      lucifer is a greco roman pagan god

    • @BhaalSakh
      @BhaalSakh 10 месяцев назад

      Lucifer is a Greco-Roman God that also appears in other pagan religions as the morning star. He is not a biblical entity at all, and most certainly not evil. Quite the opposite.

    • @SeruraRenge11
      @SeruraRenge11 8 месяцев назад

      Paradise Lost is just fanfiction where Lucifer gets butthurt, loses the war, then says to God "1v1 me bitch", and backs down when God is willing to go another round.

    • @macicoinc9363
      @macicoinc9363 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@ellytorty I understand the times you are referencing, but do not understand the flaw. Please explain

  • @Asteraleyes
    @Asteraleyes Год назад +49

    Not only this taught me religious about the two, it also explained their differences in the games. Great video, thanks for explaining. 🙏

  • @Illstatefishing
    @Illstatefishing Год назад +134

    Can't get enough of SMT lore!!

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +11

      Thank you legend

    • @Refri_Geranti
      @Refri_Geranti 9 месяцев назад

      i remember you from the anarcocabritinho discord server lol

    • @PhilR870
      @PhilR870 9 месяцев назад

      What is SMT?

    • @SyrupDoesAlot
      @SyrupDoesAlot 9 месяцев назад

      ​@@PhilR870shin megami tensei

    • @Luciodioc6000
      @Luciodioc6000 8 месяцев назад

      ​@@PhilR870 I don't mean to offend but...are you really asking that on an Smt video?

  • @starmaker75
    @starmaker75 Год назад +54

    When I first play persona 3 and 4 I just assumed that Satanc, Lucifer, and hele were just different forms of the devil. Hele is the devil angle before he fall and his disguise to trick people. Lucifer is his devil form and ruler of sin form, and Satan is his beast/monster form

  • @garvielloken8494
    @garvielloken8494 Год назад +126

    It is also should be understood that Lucifer in New Testament is called as Satan in a way of a title or nickname with meaning like the enemy (of God), while original Satan from Old Testament has it as his name and has no meaning against God, vice versa he is adversary for sinful humans

    • @cck4863
      @cck4863 Год назад +11

      I read a version of the Old Testament, Satan is a job title for lord of Hell, Lucifer is the head Angel that was appointed to the post Satan by God. There was no enemy of God.

    • @Fallen-gryphon
      @Fallen-gryphon Год назад +1

      @@cck4863no how do you explain his battle with Michael

    • @cck4863
      @cck4863 Год назад +3

      @@Fallen-gryphon
      Michael is Lucifer's ONLY competitor for soul. Both of them have this "pride" sin for being the GOD's BEST Employee Forever. Of course they don't like each other

    • @Fallen-gryphon
      @Fallen-gryphon Год назад +10

      @@cck4863 yea you haven’t read the Bible Michael being like God is a testament to him being sinless he’s Gods greatest warrior when Lucifer tries to trick him into combat over the body of Moses he says the Lord rebuke you what you are saying is blasphemy

    • @cck4863
      @cck4863 Год назад +2

      @@Fallen-gryphon
      Bible is NEW Testament, and have been re-written like how many times already? Like many have said, there are versionS.

  • @lhfirex
    @lhfirex Год назад +23

    Another great video full of SMT lore! These two demons are always interesting to see when they show up in the games.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +2

      This video was a long time coming to be honest

  • @robdotgif
    @robdotgif Год назад +55

    I feel like it should be mentioned that "Lucifer" as the current popular understanging of a texual character, is a modern-ish thing and a product of the popular thought of later century scholars and the reimaginations and remixes of poets. If you continue reading Isaiah 14 past paragraph 15 where people usually stop, its clear that it is speaking to a human, likely the ruler of Babylon at the time, it including references to conquest of other nations and their kings and prisoners of war, and quotes like "Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?". And right after in 14: 22-23 YHWH declares that he will destroy Babylon.
    But homeboy got baller horns and wings so I'll let it slide cuz he's cool
    (edit: i forgot to say that i enjoyed the video as always you make awesome stuff)

    • @mkv2718
      @mkv2718 Год назад +6

      bible verses: everyone’s favorite thing to take out of context 😉

    • @ktk44man
      @ktk44man 11 месяцев назад +2

      Exactly. In that passage mentioned in the video we can even see that Lucifer precedes the phrase "son of the morning". In case people don't know, the Morningstar is Venus, which Romans at the time of the Bible was being written called Lucifer. It seems to me that later Christians misinterpreted this phrase and did not realize that the planet they called venus was Lucifer, and invented a new character based off of this misunderstanding.

    • @captainoofmerica2478
      @captainoofmerica2478 8 месяцев назад

      Can you imagine your legacy thousands of years after your death is people thinking that you are “Literally satan” 😂

    • @macicoinc9363
      @macicoinc9363 7 месяцев назад

      Except the bible states multiple times that Satan will be the king of Babylon, where Babylon is not the city Babylon that God destroyed, but the kingdom of wickedness setup before the end of days and the abomination of desolation. The king of Babylon was not the ruler of Babylon, as Satan ruled over him.

    • @robdotgif
      @robdotgif 7 месяцев назад +1

      @@macicoinc9363 please cite the passages you are referring to. To me it sounds like you're pulling from revelations. Which isn't sound to do when analyzing the text as that was written around 800 years after Isaiah. You can not inscribe authorial intent retroactively. Even still i don't see how your point contradicts the fact that "Lucifer" or "Helel" was a title applied to king Nebuchadnezzar, comparing his glory to that of Venus

  • @eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw
    @eW91dHViZSBpcyBjZW5zb3JzaGlw Год назад +28

    amazing vid tony, i prefer these history videos to anything else.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      Means a lot, appreciate all the support

  • @Elite_Teach
    @Elite_Teach Год назад +44

    Man you made a lot of things clearer for me
    Love this channel! Keep up the great work!!

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +4

      Always love getting comments like this, thanks for watching!

  • @chrisk3824
    @chrisk3824 Год назад +15

    Another great video. Really enjoy all the tales of religious figures. I didn't expect myself to one day hear book of Job and be like, "yeah, I know this one but I'll gladly listen again"

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      Always happy when I get people interested in theology. Thanks so much for watching

  • @Hyakkishin
    @Hyakkishin Год назад +10

    I literally had this question haunting me for the past couple of weeks. And here comes Tony out of nowhere to save the day!

  • @silversobe
    @silversobe Год назад +13

    I always thought Satan as the form of Lucifer furthest from God, completely corrupted and losing all his Angelic features.

  • @GaeaRage0798
    @GaeaRage0798 Год назад +36

    Lucifer is pretty what would have happened if Zeus failed to defeat Cronus.

    • @AllGloryandHonor
      @AllGloryandHonor Год назад +1

      Greeks derive their mythology from the Bible

    • @songshield_2047
      @songshield_2047 Год назад +22

      @@AllGloryandHonor it's the exact opposite. Christian religion was born from a mixture of Zoroastrianism, Greek and Latin Mythology and a little bit of reinvention

    • @Anti-Alphabet_Mafia
      @Anti-Alphabet_Mafia Год назад +11

      Greeks didn't derive their mythology from the bible. Greek mythology existed way before christianity. But if you want to say that the greeks grabbed a lot from the abrahamic religion, then sure.
      Hercules is basically a Samson ripoff. Samson killed a lion in a second, Hercules killed the nemian lion, etc.

  • @herobrinesblog
    @herobrinesblog Год назад +9

    Some theological debate:
    The passage in apocalypse that mentions Lucifer bringing down a third of the stars (angels) doesn't mention they were on his side, in fact, Lucifer tramples these stars.
    So, where do we stand? Was it one third rebelled or one third was trampled?

    • @3kojimbles895
      @3kojimbles895 Год назад +1

      bringing down could mean bringing those who rebelled with him to hell or earth, after being trampled by the forces of micheal and the other of God's loyal angels

    • @justjoking5841
      @justjoking5841 Год назад +4

      Trampling someone's country could also be metaphor for being flattened by an attacking force. As if an assault were a one sided struggle for a time before the counter attacks actually began. 🤔
      1/3 of heaven fell or was trampled (the place). 1/3 of the Angels (as in heaven's population) also fell resultant of Helel's lies and deceptions through various means.
      Thus it is an anagogical means of describing the ferocity of the war in heaven plus exaggerations.

  • @baronkarza2939
    @baronkarza2939 Год назад +9

    Reminds me of how in Ghosts in goblins
    The devil (Aka astaroth), satan and lucifer, are all different entities
    But there is also a demon who looks almost exactly like Astaroth called nebiroth, who completely unrelated to Astaroth
    To add to the confusion, Nebiroth is sometimes called Cerberus
    who also another boss in the series who is completely unrelated to nebiroth

  • @Reno_user
    @Reno_user Год назад +14

    I like how every culture has a morning star like Esphorus the Greek version and I think I heard that the Hebrew Bible said that Satan is the angel which reminded God of his creations and not the Devil.

    • @simeonwashington9995
      @simeonwashington9995 Год назад

      Cultures must take note of how Venus (the morning star) rises and sets at the horizon and that influences the depictions of Eosphorus/Hesperus and Lucifer.

    • @Reno_user
      @Reno_user Год назад +1

      @@simeonwashington9995 You see I'm Greek I yesterday found out that we had a Lucifer

    • @simeonwashington9995
      @simeonwashington9995 Год назад

      @@Reno_user that's pretty cool honestly!

    • @Reno_user
      @Reno_user Год назад +1

      @@simeonwashington9995 Yeah! and all the Luis Cypher(Lucifer) versions are cool to like the Aztec one.

  • @thetruth86n
    @thetruth86n Год назад +9

    Just want to say keep it up. I think you are doing great work. Hope this channel blows up

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      Much appreciated! I hope so too, but most of all I'm glad people enjoy them

  • @vanir762
    @vanir762 Год назад +5

    the funniest thing is that there are versions in the book of apocalypse where it says that lucifer is the beast of the sea. while Satan is the red dragon. which is funny because there is an art and a passage where the beast (Lucifer) interacts with the dragon (Satan), kind of contradicting the idea of ​​them being the same creature....

  • @harrisonwhaley7872
    @harrisonwhaley7872 Год назад +11

    Another wonderful episode Tony!

  • @miketacos9034
    @miketacos9034 Год назад +6

    Can’t believe they created entire civilizations just to market SMT! Wild!

  • @marjhuncantago9476
    @marjhuncantago9476 7 месяцев назад +2

    I been telling this about "Satan is a Title not Name" for almost 5years now.

  • @dukenintendo
    @dukenintendo Год назад +6

    after binging most of your videos by having them something to listen to in the background, having another video makes me happy

  • @michaelfissel1357
    @michaelfissel1357 Год назад +3

    I only just now figured out that Tony4you's profile pic is the Japanese version of the "Overworked" card in YuGiOh.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      People just seem to be figuring that out lol. I always liked YuGiOh

  • @_kishken_1595
    @_kishken_1595 Год назад +4

    You don’t know how long I’ve been waiting for this video

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад

      I've been meaning to make the video for a while now, thanks for watching!

  • @scottdreemurrthegodofcreation
    @scottdreemurrthegodofcreation Год назад +6

    Mother of god finally another person who understands this

  • @prsm5167
    @prsm5167 Год назад +2

    To my knowledge, you described more of Helel's design for Lucifer (yes, I'm aware they're the same, one pre-fall, the other post-fall), although in fairness there isn't much to really say. Lucifer's design in Persona specifically is one of a stereotypical demon. The one that if someone looked at for the first time, they'd think "Yep. That's not one of the good guys." Very similar to Helel, but a solid transition from highest of high to the Prince of Hell.

  • @wordofmouth7679
    @wordofmouth7679 Год назад +2

    I’m no expert, but it’s also worth looking in the Hebrew at mentions of the word, “Satan”, where they have the modifying “ha-“ in front of it. It’s more like “The adversary”, or “the one who opposes”. It’s like a direct object modifier, adding some weight to the one being mentioned.
    Also, there are a lot of Rabbinic teachings that suggest that Job was one of the earliest books of the Hebrew Bible that was committed to writing and many hold that the book is more literary and demonstrative than literal.
    Loved your research and your presentation and really like your channel. Keep it up!

  • @movespammerguyteam7colors
    @movespammerguyteam7colors Год назад +3

    Well, Satan meaning “Adversary” or “Opposer” complicates matters. Though it does make sense why they would be relevant to each other.

  • @nonaes
    @nonaes Год назад +3

    In the SMT games there’s Lucifer his fallen demon form and there’s Helel, his beautiful angelic form

  • @WaggaDaBagga
    @WaggaDaBagga Год назад +3

    Nice video. The text in the Old Testament where Lucifer is mentioned is a word that the Jews in Babylon used to mock the king when he fell, in their lament. But which has nothing to do with the king, For it was not his name or title. His name was Neabaskar III. In Latin, Lucifer means Light bearer or Light bringer. (Lux=light/fer=bearer). Lucifer was actually a title for a Cherub angel much loved by God. After he refused to obey his master and creates orders to bow down to Adam. He became Satan, because of his sin was Pride. p.s. Morningstar can be referred to the planet Venus because it shines just like a star, but only much bigger.

  • @Beastlango
    @Beastlango Год назад +2

    Good job in getting this right. Most ether say they are the same or are completely different. You earned by sub

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      I do everything I can to interpret scripture. I'm happy people enjoy!

  • @igodreamer7096
    @igodreamer7096 Год назад +4

    This was amazing, Tony man!

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +1

      Thanks a lot! Hope to see you commenting in the next videos too!

    • @igodreamer7096
      @igodreamer7096 Год назад

      @@Tony4You Subscribed and hopeful for even better content. XD

  • @Ushi_archive
    @Ushi_archive Год назад +2

    You know it’s gonna be a good day when tony4you uploads

  • @smergthedargon8974
    @smergthedargon8974 10 месяцев назад +1

    I love the SMT4 depiction of Lucifer. He's so strange and distressing.

  • @geraldthegoose1685
    @geraldthegoose1685 Год назад +5

    Thanks to SMT5 every time I think of Lucifer I think "Gundam devil". Also is SMT5 Lucifer the strongest in the entire megami tensei series due to him consuming YHWH knowledge

  • @theingeniousone5141
    @theingeniousone5141 Год назад +22

    Thank you for making this
    Now I don't have to repeat my same argument over and over
    Very based
    Very redpilled

    • @happymate8943
      @happymate8943 Год назад

      You realize based is slang for someone on crack or acting weird.
      Also it's not really "redpilled" when it's somewhat common knowledge

    • @theingeniousone5141
      @theingeniousone5141 Год назад +1

      @@happymate8943 where is it "common knowledge" that Satan and lucifer are different entities?

    • @happymate8943
      @happymate8943 Год назад +3

      @@theingeniousone5141
      In the bible "Lucifer" is a insult used towards a Babylonian king and not a angel.
      The term "satan" has been used on people and later on angels.

    • @theingeniousone5141
      @theingeniousone5141 Год назад

      @@happymate8943 your knowledge doesn't reflect common knowledge dude

    • @happymate8943
      @happymate8943 Год назад +1

      @@theingeniousone5141
      That's because you guys would rather cherry pick quotes and verses than actually learn about the bible or the history of this religion. Lol

  • @religionoffreedom
    @religionoffreedom Год назад +2

    Great video, very informative! So it’s all in the names. The stories are designed to be considered abstractly and literally at the same time, just like Hindu “mythology”. In Christianity, the names all have deep meanings, and can tell you a lot. Everything fits when you start putting all of the religions’ stories together and finding out they are all true in ways we never imagined before.

  • @josequiles7
    @josequiles7 Год назад +1

    The passage about "Lucifer" is actually a letter to the king of tiro

  • @ImGlassy
    @ImGlassy Год назад +1

    Having recently fought Leviathan in a persona ttrpg this gives some nice extra content to think about

  • @Luciferheylelmorningstar
    @Luciferheylelmorningstar Год назад +2

    Thank you for teaching my back story

  • @cerealboxkiller420
    @cerealboxkiller420 Год назад +5

    dude, i would love a manga adaptation of the bible. like a kool one with lots of action.

  • @HoIlow
    @HoIlow Год назад +1

    Such a great video friend!

  • @nr2676
    @nr2676 Год назад +4

    There is also Majin Tensei 1 & 2 Satan design

  • @orboakin8074
    @orboakin8074 8 месяцев назад

    Friend, these videos are amazing! Never played the SMT games before but i am really interested in them now. Plus, as a Catholic, it's so fun and refreshing to see someone with an in-depth knowledge of Christianity and the lore and mystical and historical aspects of it and showcasing it to others. Subbed🤩👍

  • @itssunday1990
    @itssunday1990 Год назад

    Nice video. The difference between Satan and Lucifer are completely unknown to anyone I talk to about them. Thanks for mentioning HOW Lucifer lost the war in heaven, I hardly ever hear anyone bringing that up. Good work!

  • @kalebgonzales4009
    @kalebgonzales4009 Год назад +8

    Lucifer is the cherub’s true name while satan is a title which means deceiver in God’s language.
    The one in wreck it Ralph said the word satan correctly in it’s old way of pronunciation, “sä-tann which is why it sounds more of a title than a name. But through time, “say- tann” is considered also acceptable in modern times.

  • @BobExcalibur
    @BobExcalibur Год назад +2

    I saw the serpentine aspects of the Satan design to be a representation of That Which Opposed mankind first: the snake in the Garden of Eden.

  • @obamaorb7426
    @obamaorb7426 8 месяцев назад +2

    Ah yes, Beelzebub, Satan, Helel, Lucifer and Satanael

  • @AntagonisticArtichoke
    @AntagonisticArtichoke Год назад +1

    Great video tony

  • @poetscotty
    @poetscotty Год назад +13

    I always thought Lucifer when he fell his name changed. Was Lucifer the leader of the seraphim before Megatron?

    • @liamkqn
      @liamkqn Год назад +29

      I know you're talking about Metatron, but I find it funny to imagine a Transformer leading the seraphim lmao

    • @ltb1345
      @ltb1345 Год назад +5

      @@liamkqn Lol, I pictured Megatron when I read that as well.

    • @TheSwordsman100
      @TheSwordsman100 Год назад +8

      Kinda Lucifer for certain is the highest ranked angel, though Metatron doesn't actually exist and is only found in non canon texts (as in biblical canon not continuity) and Enoch (Metatron's original and human name) is instead implied to be one of the two witnesses in Revelations.

    • @enoyna1001
      @enoyna1001 Год назад

      ​@@TheSwordsman100>>doesn't actually exist
      Ok

    • @TheSwordsman100
      @TheSwordsman100 Год назад

      @@enoyna1001
      Take your fedora elsewhere, not only will it find no purchase, no one appreciates your derailing antics.

  • @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas
    @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Год назад +8

    So I understand Lucifer well enough, but now I'm just confused about Satan

    • @TheSwordsman100
      @TheSwordsman100 Год назад +15

      Basically for real life there is no being directly named Satan, Satan is a title meaning adversary. Which is why Lucifer is commonly called and believed to be Satan. (which is correct as he does count as a adversary but not in the way most people think) In SMT though Satatn is a unique character loosely based on all the holders of the title, with a focus on testing man and judging sin.

    • @shinyanakagawa8241
      @shinyanakagawa8241 Год назад +4

      From your handle name, I assume here you are a muslim (I apologize if otherwise). Based on the Abrahamic religions and lore, Satan is simply a representation or the manifestation of evil in human and djinns in the form of deeds. It also refers to evil djinns/spirits and lesser demons whose roles are to led believers astray from God. Lucifer on the other hand, while shares the same lore with Azazel in regards of fallen angel, is actually a byproduct of mistranslations of the bibles. For the context of this video, I think you should stick to Tony's explanation and your previous knowledge about him to avoid more confusion. SMT took Lucifer's lore mostly from Sumerian and Canaanite's folklore, Helel being a Babylonian king who refers himself as a god (similar to those Egyptian pharoahs, Babylonian kings considered themselves as gods too). Lucifer simply means "Morning Star", which is the planet Venus.

    • @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas
      @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Год назад

      @@shinyanakagawa8241 feels odd, especially considering how faithful I actually am, but yeah you're right about me being Muslim, lol
      hm, that's a fair explanation, thanks

    • @shinyanakagawa8241
      @shinyanakagawa8241 Год назад +3

      @@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas I just read stuff a lot, I guess. From there you'd know there are lots of inconsistencies and similarities on these folklores, myths and legends, and whether or not they are aligned with the religion inscriptions.

    • @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas
      @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Год назад +1

      @@shinyanakagawa8241 that's just the way of life and Megami Tensei

  • @sandwormleto3358
    @sandwormleto3358 Год назад +1

    Wake up babe, new Tony4you video

  • @pichugirl6
    @pichugirl6 Год назад

    A vid talking about Lucifer??? BEST EARLY CHRISTMAS PRESENT SAINT NICK.

  • @chomperplant2843
    @chomperplant2843 Год назад

    The fact how difficult that position came to be is like already being set up to fall instantly. If they cannot handle the position. Imagine creating something then giving features like almost setting it up to fall. Since this creation is such a risky attempt that bound to fail by huge margin.

  • @sunnyclean9743
    @sunnyclean9743 Год назад +1

    Basically from how i remember it Lucifer was an angel a “perfect” angel that wanted power even more than god he rounded up Ángels that had similar goals to him as some counter to god but instead was banished to what is known as hell where he became Satan

  • @KhunShawn
    @KhunShawn Год назад +1

    This video is going to do well

  • @RogueMoss
    @RogueMoss 8 месяцев назад

    Small point but the icon at 7:50 is "St John of the Ladder" who wrote the "Ladder of Divine Ascent." This is a different John than the one attributed to the book of John

  • @johanandersson8252
    @johanandersson8252 Год назад +3

    I would like to request a video about Helel.

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад

      That demon will potentially be covered on a later video

  • @merciless972
    @merciless972 Год назад +3

    Hell yeah, new video

  • @metaphobic
    @metaphobic Год назад +5

    I mean I've always "understood" that the two were different entities, but it is nice to actually understand them properly.

  • @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas
    @ArshadZahid_nohandleideas Год назад +1

    Oh hey this is your 50th video!

  • @OneColdRepublican
    @OneColdRepublican Год назад +1

    unrelated, but I hope IronMouse at one point starts playing SMT, because I bet she would enjoy seeing herself in game.

  • @MisterLG08
    @MisterLG08 Год назад +1

    satan's design is just "how absurd do you want it?"
    "yes"

  • @chicago_beats
    @chicago_beats Год назад +1

    It took until 2022 to get this information ℹ️. Thank you

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад

      Happy I could spread some of the lesser known aspects of the lore, thanks for watching!

  • @TehLightraven
    @TehLightraven Год назад +9

    a lot of mfs in this comment section don't get that this video is about a game.

    • @DrownedInDysphoria
      @DrownedInDysphoria Год назад +3

      It would appear that way. Really entertaining to watch

    • @freakyzed8467
      @freakyzed8467 Год назад +2

      That anyone would get bent out of shape about Bronze Age myths is a sure sign we have a LONG way to go as a species.

    • @TROLLSTIN13
      @TROLLSTIN13 5 месяцев назад

      😂 I hope so. I was about to say this man is spreading misinformation about the devil. As long as he talking about a game, I won’t have to whip out the bible scriptures on him.

    • @28_futaba
      @28_futaba 3 месяца назад

      ​@@TROLLSTIN13what misinformation is he spreading, I'm curious

    • @TROLLSTIN13
      @TROLLSTIN13 3 месяца назад

      @@28_futaba The guy is talking about a video game, which is all fictional. In the actual Bible, there’s only one devil.
      I put nonfiction by mistake.

  • @mawiiile706
    @mawiiile706 2 месяца назад

    I believe the reason Griffith has a serpent's eye is to reference Lucifer, one who had the ambition to surpass even God but was destined for hell from the start

  • @runman624
    @runman624 Год назад +5

    I thought lucifer's form was demonic while the one you showed was from a character called helei

    • @dantemustdie00
      @dantemustdie00 Год назад +1

      Same demon, Persona games for whatever reason tried to give them different names, but both are Lucifer.
      The Angel form is just more of a disguise, while his demonic form is his true power

  • @theman929
    @theman929 Год назад

    Yo, I wanted to mention that though you bring up a lot of good points there are some things that your missing especially relating to the power of God when compared to lucifer

  • @muadibadder3345
    @muadibadder3345 Год назад +3

    all I know is satan is always a level/levels below lucifer, lucifer is always lvl 99, while satan could be 98 or in da high 90s, dats it 🤷‍♂️ Seems a staple in smt and persona games

  • @diegomireles
    @diegomireles 7 месяцев назад +1

    Lucifer: Morning Star
    Satan: Adversary
    Not the same entity even in religion.

  • @deonwhite201
    @deonwhite201 Год назад

    Thank you for sharing

  • @miguelholster8769
    @miguelholster8769 Год назад +1

    This is hitting hard

  • @asurapain9224
    @asurapain9224 Год назад

    Great breakdown

  • @davidmalik3344
    @davidmalik3344 Год назад +2

    That is a really nice video but I would have a couple of remarks to make as both an SMT fan and a person who has read the Bible a considerable amount, in my opinion, both Lucifer and Satan are Titles, in Jewish religions names are given as a Title, Like Alexander the Great, he was not born great, he achieved it on his own. Now Lucifer was the brightest of all angels, but when he revolted against God his name was changed from Lucifer "Bringer of Light / Morningstar" To Satan "Resistance, Counter Force, Opposition" Because he was no longer worthy of the name bringer of light, his role has changed, and the Title of Lucifer was taken by Jesus Christ because in Revelations 22:16 it states: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star", now in King James it only says Morning Star but in other translations like the most popular Romanian one which I read because it is my mother tongue, it literally states "I am Lucifer, the light of the morning" Because the title had no owner it has been transferred to Jesus after he became Messiah as a reward, making him in both actions and title "A bringer of Light''. Now this is only my interpretation of the writing that might not be the case in the SMT universe but I hope I can get a response, thanks and keep up the good work.

  • @FirstOfTheFall
    @FirstOfTheFall Год назад +1

    I've been saying this shit since forever. Everyone says that I didn't know what I was saying.

  • @ilyamuromez6412
    @ilyamuromez6412 Год назад +1

    im suprised you also forgot to mention the babylonian and kaanian counterpart in helel.

  • @kwameoliver2455
    @kwameoliver2455 Год назад +3

    Well technically speaking depending on what you're looking at Lucifer and Satan are different depending on the Bibles if we're talking about Hebrew text or I think what Kings James version of the Bible, Lucifer and Satan are separate in a sense, since religion is like displicted so differently throughout Bibles and just were to mouth it can be very complicated funny enough I kind of like the rendition not the true demonic force in the world is called the dragon or Dagon, it's like a red gigantic creature with a crown

    • @krimsonkatt
      @krimsonkatt Год назад +2

      Someone watched too much Ben 10...

    • @kwameoliver2455
      @kwameoliver2455 Год назад

      @KrimsonKatt that took so long for me to get and that was a stretch good comment though, thier is a dagon in the Bible doe, thiers yeah thiers something called the dragon or serpent n it's red

  • @maxbarker9068
    @maxbarker9068 Год назад +2

    Came for the game theory, stayed for the Bible study

  • @mavrospanayiotis
    @mavrospanayiotis 3 месяца назад +1

    It's funny how Jesus point to himself as Lucifer:
    "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star." -Revelation 22:16
    And is tempted by Satan:
    10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve!

  • @chozolady
    @chozolady 10 месяцев назад +1

    for a video game franchise to comprehend the difference between Lucifer and Satan is huge to me and as far as to go to acknowledge that he, Lucifer, is the Greco-Roman god of light, love, knowledge and intelligence. a Pagan god. the west has ruined his depiction in media and i’m too picky with how i want people to depict my deity. i think that Kaz not only did an amazing job at designing him but the way he talks about Lucifer is lovely to me. Lucifer isn’t evil, he isn’t trying to harm the protagonist. he works as a partner and tries to apply his teachings not only to the protagonist but to reach further to you, the player. this is definitely one of the biggest reasons why the Megten franchise means so much to me. give a weird little pagan girl a weird little JRPG and she will find something meaningful out of it. bless be lord Lucifer! ❤

  • @tigersympathiser2265
    @tigersympathiser2265 3 месяца назад

    Satan is portrayed as he is even earlier than SMT II in Megami Tensei II and Majin Tensei, both of which mirror SMTII

  • @khiclark31
    @khiclark31 Год назад +1

    Great video. I wonder are the 1st Megami Tensei games translated and where can I find them?

  • @gamermasterL
    @gamermasterL Год назад

    Maybe we can also discuss Satanael and how it relates to Satan and Lucifer.

  • @bubbletea_
    @bubbletea_ Год назад +1

    Lucifer and Satan?
    OH SHIT, TONY 'BOUTA DROP A FUSION SPELL (Armageddon).

  • @abruptdemise2691
    @abruptdemise2691 Год назад +1

    8:07 Jesus really out in Judea roasting men alive. My favorite part of the Bible

  • @rickygarcia4246
    @rickygarcia4246 Год назад +2

    How powerful is the spear of destiny in persona 2? And could it make god endlessly bleed like how his son did?

  • @josetomascamposrobledano4618
    @josetomascamposrobledano4618 Год назад +3

    Ok… but can we add SATANAEL to the list now?

  • @GODGOD-bi4tk
    @GODGOD-bi4tk Год назад +1

    Is my beard getting daat... what do I do?
    How do I connect with Sher people?
    I have to take earphone too!

  • @copperface3574
    @copperface3574 Год назад

    @Tony4You please leave a list of music you use in your videos 🙏. Good video BTW.

  • @madcat4563
    @madcat4563 Год назад

    Well, this video came out at a great time.
    I recently watched season 2 of the devil is a part timer and had a brain fart moment.
    I couldn't figure out if they were the same or two different beings, and google didn't get to the poin fast enough.
    Edit: My brain is a bit fried, but I have a better understanding now.
    It's funny how media that is considered "evil" made me interested in religion.

  • @kasumiayanami4501
    @kasumiayanami4501 Год назад +2

    Not sure what's up with Lucifer's "Helel" design from P3 and P4 but as a guy, that has me actin' up 🥴🥵😩🙏😈❤️‍🔥

    • @Tony4You
      @Tony4You  Год назад +5

      You said what I couldn't 😳