Who is The Demiurge : SMT Lore
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
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The Demiurge or Yaldabaoth are characters in shin megami tensei you might not know much about, and honestly I did not either. Appearing as demiurge in smt strange journey, smt 4, and smt NINE, and appearing as Yaldabaoth in Persona 5 and Persona 5 Strikers, he takes many forms and explaining him is a tall task. For smt lore we'll be going into the demiurge and yaldabaoth as it is most relevant to the games they appear in and learning about where their personality's came from. The true creator demiurge, the artisan yaldabaoth, who is the demiurge?
Today we’ll be going over a demon I’ve been very interested in for a long time, Demiurge. To some, the creator of all, unparalleled by any, and to others, the fool, or the son of chaos. From talking about the Demiurge we will also go over Samael, and Yaldablaoth from his origins in gnostic religion. For clarification before we get into the Demiurge, a quick run down of Gnosticism. Gnosticism is essentially an early christian heretical interpretation of scripture in opposition to orthodox beliefs. Based on esoteric knowledge or (gnosis) and rejection of the material world. While orthodox christians believe the world to be created by the supreme being, YHVH, and his son Jesus being born, living, and dying on this earth to rise again. Gnostics reject the material world and believe the world was created by a lesser deity, the Demiurge, and Jesus is more of a spiritual entity. Some heretical texts key to gnostic beliefs are “the Gospel of Judas'' and “The apocryphon of John”. In the Gospel of Judas, Jesus and Judas shared a conversation away from the other disciples and paints them as diluted by a false God and Judas carrying out the true will of Jesus by delivering him to his death at the hands of the Romans. It is important to note that the term Gnosticism may give you a false interpretation as there is no church of Gnosticism like there are churches of christianity or synagogues of Judaism, rather the term Gnostic deriving from “Gnosis” meaning “Esoteric knowledge” as said before, was attributed to the collection of heretical texts and those who believed in them. Gnosticism is a belief system rather than religion. If that was complicated, it only gets more so from here on out, so let’s get into the general Gnostic beliefs, and who, or what, is the Demiurge.
Let me know your thoughts on the Demiurge and Yaldabaoth here! Also leave any suggestions for the next video
Maybe Ahura Mazda and Ahriman?
I think Demiurge is a really sad figure, he was abandoned by his mother Sophia and left alone to live the lie that he really was God. He's basically a discarded, deluded child who, despite having created everything, even beautiful and good things, is blamed for all the world's evil and reviled. In mainstream Christianity the world isn't a bad thing, sure, it was corrupted by Lucifer through sin, but Jesus' mission is to redeem the world and purify it, not destroy it in favour of some immaterial utopia, which is why I really don't agree with gnosticism.
Mah baby snake Samael, the red little rascal of the eden lol
Bro, Samael is like that strange friend who everybody think is crazy/troublemaker: if the party is okay/normal, he will flirt with the girlfriend/sister of the guy who owns the house; just because he is bored. That friend who also makes the best jokes and is always trolling, but you can count on him for any sh*t.
The SMT makes a great design for him... but then he cannot be summoned in Persona 5, because the f*ckers made him became a bald d*ck boner.
Again, Samael, pls... PLS!
The Harbinger of the Ruin
I really liked the videos explaining the endings of the SMT games, do you think you’ll do more of them?
Demiurge: "Wow, what a nice perfect spiritual world this is... would be a shame if someone created an intrinsically flawed material world..." **Troll Face**
The first troll in the universe
We do a little trolling
@@doctorhealsgood5456 "We do a little trolling" *proceeds to create literally everything*
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas [...] to create literally everything imperfectly so it suffers, rots, dies, and rots some more. And is trapped into repeating it endlessly.
Gotta add a little ✨ spice ✨ I love God, if this is actually what happened he is even more brilliant for it.
As a Christian, SMT and Persona broadened my horizons and knowledge on my faith and life. I never once felt offended by their games. I felt encouraged to do more research.
Same here, As a Christian Myself, SMT especially IV and Apocalypse and Persona encouraged me with my research. Assassin's Creed was the same as I have uncovered connections with the Knights Templar in irl.
@@Harleena1995 im glad I'm not the only fellow Christian who also enjoy this franchise.
Imagine actually believing in the judeo-Christian god.
@@Someguyonline7732 Y'know, Abrahamic-God is a more inclusive term than "Judeo-Christian" ya bigote
as a Christian i love the series just want better law endings
Characters from Gnostic theism show up a lot in SMT games, particularly in NINE. I'd love to see more videos about characters such as Sophia, Adam Cadmon and Lilith.
Yeah, the more I learned about it the deeper down the rabbit hole I went in understanding more of SMT. Maybe more videos in the works on this topic
Lilith is Gnostic? I always thought she was part of the New Testament or something-
@@goroakechi6126 Definitely not. I certainly never learn about her in church, lol.
@@goroakechi6126 IIRC, she's part of the Kabala
Lilith isn't part of the Gnostic cosmology, at least the Gnostic texts that are currently known.
The idea of the Demiurge is trying to create a perfect world out of imperfect material is kind of tragic. No matter how hard he tries he'll never move past the physical, as such he'll never move past that which is evil.
When you put it like that it does paint in a much more sympathetic light. He will always try, but likely will never succeed.
The demiurge needs a different perspective
Read john lamb lash. A scholar of nag hammedi Sophia an aeon fell in error from pleroma and is emboded in our earth mother earth. When she fell her fear forms created the energies or thought forms and gave birth to demiurge.
@@Tony4You thats the thing, “demiurge” is titled as samaEL in the texts, the original name of the satan. When we look at it the way you are, we can understand how to move forward in the cosmic+moral+conscious evolution that the all being creator above demiurge started in the first place
I'm not evil fuck you. If there was no ego there was no problem
His stats and moves will urge you to use him when possible
Only half as much though (demi = half)
@@ArshadZahid_nohandleideas you rang?
@@Demi-Joker Yaldabaoth rang
The virgin Yaldaboth: "Nooooo, Humans can't live without me!"
VS
The chad Demiurge: "As long as you remain human, you will be a prisoner, both in soul and body. Give up, be silent and... be cursed"
Demiurge enjoyers rise up!
So, he also need human? Same shit
See Persona 5S
@@eavyeavy2864 Yaldabaoth is an abusive Ex. Demiurge's a kidnapper with sosiopathy
same being@@eavyeavy2864
This channel is criminally underrated, just like most of the SMT series
I appreciate it lol. Hopefully one day I'll get to the top
For real, my man Tony deserve a little Throne next to YHVH for all his work.
Out of all the languages you could speak u chose facts
SMT isnt even underrated, people like the games alot, and it doesnt underperform. Many people dont talk about it because its niche
does SMT stand for #SparkMasterTape ?
Really interesting breakdown of the character, I always find these 'false creator' figures intriguing and it was cool to see the parallels between the SMT interpretation and the gnostic deity. 👍
Hey thanks! I was so surprised researching this subject and realizing just how deep it goes. The false gods and philosophical takeaways from them are so fascinating
Take the A from Abraham and add it to the end
The demiurge, as a concept, has always been a super interesting idea to me. I hope a mainline SMT game explores it in depth at some point.
I barely even knew anything about him prior to starting the research, really glad others were interested as well
This one has been the coolest lore wise.
I've never heard of this Its probably because I've been raised Christian/catholic a lot of people get defensive on other religions.
Demiurge is a fascinating demon. Don't fall to heresy researching him lol
It seems like the demiurge is a lot like Thanos but I would not fall for it. If you believe in Jesus and the "true" God you know that it should save you. Satan is very good at deceiving people but I can sort of see why that Catholic church got rid of gnostic texts. There were so many gnostic gospels but its hard to believe how they did not choose a majority them to be a part of the canonical ones the more I study them, but I sort of see it from their perspective though being that Jesus was parallel with the prophets of Isiah, Zachariah, Ezekiel, Jeremiah and Malachi. And a lot of people were killed for heresy for having them in their possession which is hard to believe this is what they were talking about. I am a Protestant and the Protestant tradition comes out of the Catholic church which condemned heresy , but I imagine there were so many other sayings Jesus said during his life but unfortunately the reliability of what people spoke about him is not 100 percent accurate because this is like a big game of telephone. Especially that you get the rest of the gospels from the other disciples but it is depicted in such a contradictory light. But like Jesus said he was the great "i am" in Matthew 11 in contrast with Exodus 3:14? was this edited out by chance?! But I slightly disagree to some extent because there were commandments to not commit sin by this "malevolent God" we know and worship and then Jesus extended on those teachings which being set free from the bondage of sin through the Son is what sets a Christian free because someone cannot live a perfect sinless life. God is so pure that he cannot be around sin and judges us for our wrong doings so I agree that the gnostic gospels are somewhat deceptive or even apply mimicry. This is probably what Jesus meant when he said that there would be many like him that would be false teachers. And the demiurge is shaped like a snake too, Satan is depicted as a snake!! Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge of good and evil and not of the tree of the knowledge of god. They were not stupid they were perfect beings that could not judge someone for their appearance or even think a dirty thought about others in the Garden of Eden. I myself cannot resist to judge people for how they dress just imagine how sinless I would be if I was in their state of mind. I try to follow God but fail all the time and have to repent and change my routine. Just because the other disciples also wrote their own books does not make their version of the story right either, especially Judas who was a lying thief and a traitor. It said in John 13 when he took the bread from Jesus Satan entered him, yikes!!!
Something I've noticed from playing JRPGs: even outside of SMT, nearly EVERY evil creator deity in JRPGs is based on the Demiurge. Japan seems to really love Gnosticism.
If I had a nickel for every JRPG final boss who was:
-The creator god of its world.
-An evil tyrant.
-Lawful Evil.
-Not the true supreme god of its world, and the true higher power is at least neutral towards humanity if not outright benevolent.
I'd have way more than two nickels. I'd name examples but that'd be spoiling non-SMT games.
how many of them come from Final Fantasy?
@@christopherbravo1813 I find that despite the memes, very few final bosses in FF are actual gods. Most of the time you fight a human trying to become a god, like Kefka or Sephiroth.
@@BigKlingy though in Kefka's case, you fight the actual gods several times before fighting him.
Xenogears and Xenoblade say hello, lol. They don't even try to hide it (the Monado, anyone?)
@@willd1790 Yaldabaoth is a mecha in XC1 as well
There was one guy that got the idea of the God in the old testament was the false God and the new testament God being the true one, and that is kind of an interesting concept. Come on video game developers get on this!
There's so much you can do with this concept honestly
but no, God *has* to be evil no matter what Testament video game creators draw from.
This concept already exist with yhvh as malevolent God and the great Will as the true creator, even tho we still don't know what actually the great Will is.
@@basedturu2320 except God is so much less malevolent than the Great Will.
@@basedturu2320 No.
The Axiom is The True Almighty in SMT
I fell down a gnosticism rabbit hole about a year ago, the mythos and history are really interesting. In a way, the modern spiritual revolution our generation is going through right now has a lot in common with it.
I'm actually creating a video game with lore themed around the gnostic hierarchy, so this video condensing all this info down in one place is really helpful!
I thought I was the only one thinking we going through a spiritual revolution
Please elaborate.
Any book recommendations?
Yo how's that game going?
@@zero123alpha6could be alluding to the fact this generation is beggibing to show signs of being sick of the material and those who find sanctity of it, although its a very weak spark and is being further corrupted by those who are consumed by it
I wish that Demiurge was in SMT V.
Would've made for a good side quest considering Sophia is in the game already and Demiurge would definitely aim for the throne
@@mr.sellout6284 I’d rather have Demiurge be the main antagonist, possibly trying to screw YHVH and Lucifer over. Perhaps he created his own version of the world, and YHVH wants to destroy the Demiurge for his “false godhood,” while Lucifer wants to free the beings inside the Demiurge’s world.
Demiurge gets the Yaldabaoth role in P5S.
I always found the different interpretations of spirits and angels around the Bible’s creation stories super interesting. How the serpent can either be painted in a positive or negative light. How the apparent two mentions of the creation of humanity in Genesis can be interpreted as proof of the Demiurge’s imprisonment of Adam’s spirit in a physical body (“let us create man in our image” being spoken by the Demiurge to his followers instead of God) as well as explain the apparent dissonance between God’s attitude in the Old and New Testament.
It makes me wish we had more literature from the time period of early Christianity, because we don’t really have much text closely linked to the first century. The best we have is likely second century copies of biblical texts and the NHL.
Man, I wish the library of Alexandia didn’t burn down…
Whenever I hear the name Demiurge all I think of is the “Le Sad Demiurge” comic. Also I like his NINE design more, maybe it’s how he sits in his fancy chair
I'm more curious about why Adam and Eve, the only random encounter in Paradise, share the same visual design as Yaldaboath's… head…and a half
After I started getting into SMT I realized why a lot of Japanese devs draw is inspiration from religion or mythology.
There's a lot of interesting information that you can learn about, and it's honestly very fun to research.
Honestly, the false god vs true god is an idea I hope is implemented into an SMT game. There's so much potential for that as a plot.
Yeah this isn't a super unique aspect of SMT per se. Japanese devs really love religion and especially Abrahamic lore. Gnosticism especially the more you research, the more you realize is in a lot of media
@@Tony4You Yeah for example William Blake’s Urizen is very similar to the Demiurge.
@@Tony4You Has similarities to the whole enlightenment aspect seen in other eastern beliefs. Gnosticism just has a solidified antagonistic force keeping individuals bound to the physical world so it makes for a proper aspect of something to fight against rather than an internal struggle of the material vs the spiritual and consequences stemming from choosing the former.
*cough* Silent hill *cough*
Demiurge is a demon thats super cool, especially when another of my favourite franchise, Xenoblade/Saga/Gears covers the Gnostic beliefs too
Hell yeah brother!
Xenogears introduced me to Gnostism and my mind has been blown. Kinda spoopy!
i forgot how utterly shit the lucifer desgin was in SMTIV
if anything he is a disgrace to bald people, at least the real Lucifer has the courage to accept he is not on the same level as bald people and gets himself some hair
Only a imperfect, selfish and insecure being would want their believers to bow down, accept only and only him in your hearts, punish nonbelievers with the dying of the first sons, allow brutality of slavery and world wars..
There is absolutely no way yaweh is good.
Most people:Gnostiwhat?
Me a Xeno series fan:This is where the fun begins.
I have found one of my people.
This false god always interested me since he was my first SMT/Persona true antagonist.
One thing I always interpreted based off Strikers’ implications about Yaldabaoth and the Demiurge is that they’re one in the same. Lavenza did mention something about the entity the Phantom Thieves once defeated having returned in Strikers. Is that true?
I was surprised how many people were really interested in him honestly. I am on board as well after doing this research. I believe the strikers and P5 Yaldabaoth are different sides of the same entity, though they act very differently and are obvious nods to the different interpretations of Gnostic and Platonic ideas
@@Tony4You Right, they were created through completely different ways. Maybe it’s more accurate to say that EMMA assumed Yaldabaoth’s position like how Maruki did? Although the former is has more in common with the original pseudo-god of control.
I've heard that in some traditions, Satanael is another name for the Demiurge. If that's true it fits P5, as when you think about it they are essentially the same thing: both colossal entities born from the cognition of Tokyo.
@@BigKlingy I heard that there was a minor belief that the Devil was synonymous with the Demiurge.
it'd certainly be ironic, given that Satan is full of pride and would be absolutely *thrilled* if ignorant humans worshipped him instead of God.
The thing about the boss deities in persona (aside from Nyx who is a special case) is that they are not the actual deities. They are being created passively by the collective unconsious that represent various concepts that humanity either consciously or subconsciously thinks.
In Yaldabaoths case, he was the manifestation of mankinds subconscious desire to be controlled, because being told how to think and what to do is easier than doing it yourself. The phantom theives defeated Yaldabaoth, but that concept that caused his creation remained. Then EMMA came along and was something that the concept could be directly focused on, thus turning EMMA into basically Yaldabaoth 2.0. They were the same entity created using the same method, just one sprung up from nothing via the collective unconscious, and the other was something transformed via the collective unconscious.
Average Demiurge fan vs Average YHVH worshipper
They're actually the same lol. Y-Man is far more based on the demiurge from gnosticism than the canonical christain God.
Chad Law fans RISE UP!
@@Tony4You Law sucks solely because it runs counter to free will, which 99% of people, especially Americans, believe is one of the most important things ever. So really in nearly every game (except for Devil Survivor 1 where Law is by far the best route) Law is basically "screw free will humanity bad god good" and the way God is portrayed runs completely counter to his the bible portrays him, another turn off from the law route.
This often only leaves Chaos and Neutral, and since Neutral is more often than not the hardest and also "best" ending to obtain, that leaves every game to fall under Chaos for the first playthrough. This is only circumvented in Nocturne and 4A where there is no traditional alignment system. I'm Nocturne ALL the alignments are bad and are all considered "bad endings" not even letting you fight the final boss. The only REAL endings are the freedom ending and true demon ending, the latter being a secret ending and the former being the traditional good/neutral ending. Then there is just the demon ending which is just a bad ending version of the freedom ending if you're mean to the teacher.
SMT4A only has too endings since the Law and Chaos endings are just glorified bad endings that lock you out of 50% of the game. Then out of the two real endings the bonds ending is clearly the "right" one since the other requires you to be an asshole to your friends the entire game and is only chosen by edgelord atheists redditors who want to roleplay as God.
As some examples of why the law routes don't work is how Y-Man is portrayed, here is a comparison between God in the bible and God in SMT. In the bible, God's main character traits are these:
-Judges the legitimitely wicked severely, but always offers the option of forgiveness regardless of past sins.
-Never breaks promises, no matter what.
-Loves humanity and gave them the gift of free will in order to bring them closer in their relationship to God and to give their choices meaning.
-Gave his beloved Son Jesus to save this broken world and redeem humanity from their boundless sin.
-Sometimes works in strange and mysterious ways, but if the person has trust it will always work out in the end.
-Immortal, eternal, all knowing, all seeing, omnicient, omnipresent, and ascendant. God is the very essence of the universe itself, incomprehensible to mortals and is both everywhere and nowhere at the same time, a paradox beyond the confines of the world he has created. He cannot be killed or defeated, for He is All. It's a very good thing he's benevolent, or we would all be screwed!
Comparitively, here are Y-Man's traits in SMT.
-Hateful and spiteful, brings forth judgement upon people who don't deserve it and rarely if ever offers forgiveness.
-Lies and decieves others to get his way, is the main overarching villain of the entire franchise.
-Hates free will and humanity and completely regrets creating humanity in its entirety.
-Jesus is only mentioned twice in the entire SMT franchise. First in Persona 2 Innocent Sin where Jesus is mentioned at the end of the game as a "rumor" implying he never actually existed. Then again in Persona 3 appearing as the MC's ultimate persona "Massiah," which makes sense as the P3 protag is a Jesus parallel and like Jesus sacrifices himself to save everyone. Jesus being a mere persona, (abiet a very powerful one) created from humanity's collective unconscious, also implies that Jesus in this world is a myth and isn't real.
-Y-Man in SMT is clearly entirely mortal, dying in some way, shape, or form in every mainline game he appears or is heavily mentioned in. (SMT2, 4A, and 5) He is also prone to mistakes and is a completely physical being bound to the laws of the universe, running completely contrary to biblical accounts.
Therefore Law bad, Neutral/Chaos good. Unless they can make law a lot more nuanced than "free will bad humanity bad god good" in future games like in Devil Survivor or even stuff like Strange Journey, I will always, and I mean ALWAYS pick Neutral and if I don't have a clear choice like in SMT4 probably end up on Chaos even though I often disagree with Lucifer's ideals in nearly every game.
@@Tony4You Also please review Devil Survivor 1 and 2 along with DDS2.
There are many more gods created by The Monad according to the Gnostics. The Demiurge is created by Sophia, just one of the many higher beings created by The Monad.
I first heard about Yaldabaoth from Sarkicism in SCP lore, and had no idea that it was linked to actual real world beliefs until I heard about gnositicism.
Anything that helps you learn is valuable. Definitely research more as I've only scratched the surface
I learned a lot from this episode. I've never heard of Demiurge, Yaldabaoth, the Gnostics, or even that there was a game called SMT Nine. My mind is blown!
I chose to do a video on him kind of on a whim and it turned out really well. Happy people are enjoying
That was really interesting. I learned a lot about gnosticism today, I always wondered about this image of god.
Happy I could talk about something interesting. More videos to come!
It seems you missed out on the appearance of 2nd phase Apocalypse YHVH which is directly based on the gnostic description of the Demiurge. Same with how he acts and Lords over other deities
It's kinda crazy how accurate to this P5's Yaldabaoth was. A false God looking to control all of humanity
Yeah it blew my mind once I started researching it. They never cease to amaze me
@@Tony4You hey do you think you can do a video on the messages of all the individual smt and Persona games
I think the Gnostic belief of the material world being evil ties into P5 Yaldabaoth too, although I could be reaching here. The cognitive Yaldabaoth is born from the people of Tokyo's belief that society is so corrupt and irredeemable that trying to fix it is pointless.
@@BigKlingy wow that's awesome I could see that
I always thought the Demiurge was meant to square the circle of "how can God be such a dick in the OT but ever-loving in the NT"
The Demiurge gives an easy answer to that: they aren't the same person
Earth is a prison planet created by the Demiurge. Thank you for the video!
Not addressing wht they look like Mithra in one of the drawing used? I was curious about why it was since Mithra is more often associated with the Zoroastrian Mythology. 🤔
Also it's a funny coincidence since I just finished Persona 5 Strikers earlier today, it's no coincidence that Sophia ends up joining you huh? 😎
I was debating whether or not to bring it up, but the video would get really long and lose focus if I delved into speculation rather than hard research. Better to leave things for later videos to flesh out more.
Strikers has a lot more going for it then people give it credit lore wise. Such a great game
@@Tony4You that makes sense. It just really tickled my curiosity and I was disappointed that part wasn't satiated.
Don't get me wrong though, I did enjoy the video! 😊
I searched for the picture and it actually is a drawing of a statue found in the temple of Mithra, even tho it is on the wikipedia page of the Demiurge.
Either way, I found out that scholars have noted some similarities between some of the figures in mystical religions. The gnostic Yaldabaoth, the orphic Phanes and Mithra are all associated with snakes and lions.
The GOAT is back!
Just getting into smt(100% devil survivor overclocked and am about to finish the neutral route of smtIV) and this channel is amazing to spice up the appearances of these mythological creature's and God's.
(P.s hoping to play most smt game's, but it's really hard to actually get some of these game's.)
Awesome! I'm so glad my channel could be interesting to a new fan of the series. I hope you can get some of the games soon as they really blew my mind
@@Tony4You absolutely, it's making me see these stories in a whole new way, it's what I love about shin megami tensei.
I'm hoping to get strange journey soon, I want the original one since I heard redux adds some....not so great changes.
But I still have loads of easy and cheap game's to acquire.
Samael is coming soon, ehhhhhhhh? My favorite red snake trickster!
(Nice video as always, Tony!)
For anyone wanting a quick primer on the tone of Gnosticism, I'd suggest reading The Hypostasis of the Archons, which is a short Gnostic commentary on the early part of the Book of Genesis. That Eve is viewed as a heroine rather than a sinner, that the serpent is a divine messenger rather than a devil, and that the god of Abraham is instead believed to be the Demiurge would probably come as a shock to those only familiar with orthodox forms of Abrahamic religion.
As ideas for future videos, a video on how Lucifer is more of a title than a proper name would be interesting. Also, a short primer on Luciferianism and how Lucifer is viewed in that mystical tradition would be interesting. Or how Lucifer has been viewed within Western occultism, such as within certain magical grimoires.
3:30 there must be many different interpretations. The monad is achieved, I wouldn’t cal it an entity like the Demiurge.
Your videos are great, maybe you don't want to take such a massive work load, but alot of people would tune in if you did videos like this for most demons in smt
Making videos on a ton more demons in the dream! I will pace myself and maybe fin tune the editing a bit, but I do hope to cover a lot more demons
SMT MCs: we fought YVHV
Ren: I fought a false god
SMT MCs: that’s just cute
Flynn kills the Demiurge as a side quest which is pretty funny if you think about it yeah lol
@@Tony4You persona's Yaldabaoth is actually far stronger than the regular Demiurge I'll have you know that, Joker himself is actually stronger than Flynn.
As someone deeply interested in theology and Jungian psychology, discovering Persona was cool and all, but beating Persona 5 and proceeding to yell at the screen like an obnoxious fangirl because, "HOLY SHIT IT'S BEEN A GNOSTIC PARALLEL THIS WHOLE TIME" is perhaps one of the most emotionally impact moments of my adult life. Now I'm going down the rabbit hole of Persona and SMT and loving every single moment of it.
Id actually like to see a video on Satanael because i originally though that he was just the name of Satan when he was an Angel. This might have been a single interpretation but id love to know if theres more. Even if I researched it on my own, I would still love to see a video from you on the topic
I have the Demiurge to like and subscribe
Thanks king
When I first learnt of Gnosticism and the Demiurge (from Persona 5 lore as it happens) it seemed like a very sensible belief system. It certainly resolves the dissonance between Jesus's benevolence and Old Testament God's apparent cruelty on some occasions. Although I suppose I should study both both holy texts (the Old Testament and Nag Hammadi Scriptures in this case) more closely before rendering such judgements.
The demiurge (Greek demiurgos,]“craftsman”is the being who created the world in Gnosticism. The Gnostics identified him with the god of the Old Testament. The Gnostic scriptures portray him as ignorant, malicious, and utterly inferior to the true God who sent Christ to earth to save humankind from the demiurge’s evil world. In the Gnostic creation myth, Heaven - which the Gnostics called the “Pleroma,” “Fullness” - was all that existed until a divine entity named Sophia tried to conceive on her own, without the involvement of her heavenly partner or the consent of God. Sophia gave birth to a son that was the product of the rebellious and profane desire that had arisen within her.When Sophia saw the horrifying, twisted being that had come from her, she was deeply ashamed and afraid. She disowned him and cast him out of Heaven.
From his lonely position where his madness and conceit could go unchecked, the demiurge gave birth to the archons (“rulers”[10]), beings who were like him and could help him administer the material world. He then created the material world, which, like all creations, was a reflection of the personality of its creator.
The demiurge then created Adam and Eve and imprisoned divine sparks from Heaven within them. He told them that he was the only god and issued the Ten Commandments, even though he himself broke each and every one of those commandments. For example, he lied when he claimed to be the only god and that Adam and Eve would die if they ate the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil; he insulted his mother and father by refusing to acknowledge their existence; he made a graven image of the divine when he modeled the material world on his corrupt and ignorant misunderstanding of Heaven;
The belief system of Gnosticism is only made more complicated by the fact that only maybe half of people who practiced it actually believed in it, sophia and the demiurge n all that. It was more of a rejection of the church-state and a celebration of humanities innate greatness, in contrast to the shame and imperfection abrahamic religions put on humans
Not gonna lie this one made my head hurt 🤕
I really like Satanael. I really want to know why he is always related to Lucifer
There is so much to talk about with each demon, it's a blessing and a curse for these videos lol. One day I'll get back to the "Satan" figures
Fun fact: In Bogomilism(a 10th century gnostic sect), Satanael is the Demiurge. He was said to be the brother of Christ, and he rebelled against God. Because of this, he was kicked out from the Heavens and he created the material world later on.
What is life without physical MATTER? I mean I understand the gnostic point of view of wanting to detach from this materialistic world and be freed from all physical attributions that supposedly imprison souls to this earth as well a spirituality as being something distinctive from physicality, but at the same time, there is one question that throttles my mind. How the hell can you live if you DO NOT SEE, FEEL, HEAR, BREATH, THINK and etc? I mean without those senses, How the hell are you going to be able to experience the enlightenment of the true GOD once you've escaped this so called matrix? It seems to me that gnostism tend have more of a concept of non-existence after death since it eradicates all forms of features that give us the awareness of life and existence. I mean without them, how are you going to feel and see the TRUE GOD? You know, there is a need for physical content to build a set of existence because otherwise, it's pitch-black nothingness and emptiness, and that means, there is no light. Sorry but the 7 senses are functions that enable you to experience life, which is part of the physical realm of all universes, and light is by all means, is also part of it just to set of the record straight.
You are ignorant and small. Stay finite.
Exactly when I was wondering this. Perfect timing
I just had the demiurge to make this video
Gnosticism belongs in the traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaash
Babe wake up new Tony4you video
Take your meds. It wasn't your fault she died
one important difference between mainstream Christianity and Gnosticism is how the world is perceived. Despite popular belief, the Christian afterlife isn't in a spiritual realm, but here in this universe, after all you enter Heaven with both body and soul. Despite carnality being a source of sin, it isn't by itself evil, but a gift from God like all of creation, Gnostics instead want to get rid of it, believing only the soul to be good, which is very sad in my opinion, as the world is full of beautiful and good things worthy of appreciation.
Yo Tony, great video but it left me wondering. At 4:06 you start using this picture as reference and correct me if I'm wrong, but that looks a lot like Mithra. Does he have roots in gnosticism or a connection to DemiUrge?
Yeah it does look a lot like Mithra from Zoroastrian religious lore. It is used as a picture representing the platonic version of the demiurge but bears a striking resemblance for sure. Might be something worth looking into in another video if nothing else
Judas was the only Jewish apostle so remember that when your believing anything concerning him. Jesus christ is in control of every aspect of our world.
I have a love/hate relationship with Gnosis. Still, the interpretation that I was thought is that Sophia wanted a place where souls/spirits could grow from experiencing a material world. Still, the material world gained sentience because the "demiurge" is not able to comprehend anything outside itself (the true spiritual nature of the world) and claims itself to be the only thing that is all that was in his domain. That is nothing when it comes to the gods. Still, it so happens that there were souls trapped in its domain, so that became an issue. I was taught that you are an exceptional snowflake version of things are overly sensitive, somewhat condescending, so be cautious. It goes like this The Demiurge is a Non-Entity In the way like space is nothing but in reality is something, something called space; or like a MacGuffin that means nothing on itself but moves an entire plot, my analogies are benign. Still, in some versions of Gnosis, the Demiurge is looked more like a platform that uses the divine powers within it, more like how a wheel uses a hamster's force to move. In itself, the Demiurge is a dud only able to create the illusion of movement through the movement of something else. It is confusing but is, for the most part, the egregious version of the matrix same edge concepts in the same way. Not a fan of that version. I was taught this version from an altered point of view based on Blavatsky's texts, mostly coming from how the mother like nature of the world was in a way usurped by the mechanized, cold, and distant father nature accompanied by a tale about a society that I always forgot the name where the men got jealous that they were not able to create anything on their own like women could and that it was his efforts that kept things moving not nature and in the same way that The Demiurge took control over the spiritual nature of the world "men" did the same. But my favorite version is where Sophia wanted to create something that surpassed the current divinity experienced by the gods that have it all. Still, such a task turns the Demiurge Insane. Something that was supposed to be a way for spirits to grow through the material experience became the absolute "hell," where true individuality does not exist. The duality of the world torments the human soul. Sophia was then fated to watch over her creation from afar until every soul was free of her design. She whispered what else but Gnosis to free. I like their contradictions as much as the bible in how they don't seem to take things that seriously with interpretations because there is a whole lot, and just between you and me, they are all equally valid.
definitely an interesting characterisation, especially that last bit, like how in proverbs wisdom is described as feminine, and it says;
"Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets,
She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying;
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?"
@@jackp492 oh! I have another one phylo-Sophie from sophia i think it ment to think about.
Had a stroke reading this
Love to the Platonic Demiurge
Well my body is bad how can I escape to spiritual?
I need to take out the organ and hands no matter what!?! Ask mother too!
It's hard for me to BELIEVE in anything these days.
I might just have a weird concept of it, but Gnosticism and Christianity don't really 'go against each other' for me. Don't Christians mention a false god that believes in subjugation as happiness, and those that don't get 'marked' are the ones that go to heaven after the apocalypse? Or something like that. I'm Christian myself, but to me the bible is mostly symbolic and isn't really meant to take literally (a problem I have with extremist Christians, to be honest... come on, do you really think a seven-headed dragon with ten horns is going to eat women at the end of the world while it rains blood?)(Though that sounds kind of amazing.) In that regard, if anything, Gnosticism falls in line with the idea that evil exists because free will exists, and that the only way to get rid of it is if humanity were to become the subservient puppets the demiurge seems to want. It's pretty cool stuff and what got me into SMT in the first place. Lots of food for thought.
Dude really put a picture of Jewish while talking about christianity
Christianity always did seem... backwards...
It is' - way backwards. But so is everbody.
does anyone know the name of painting at 6:12? or an artist name
banger vid btw tony
Best I could find is "Cycle of Birth and Death" by Bhakti Art
Bullshit,the most logical thing If that thing exist ,he is 90 % evil, 10 % chaotic
YHVH is basically the Demiurge of the SMT verse anyway
How Gnostic myth is handled in SMT's lore proper is interesting as it tries to reconcile the two opposing views and with the original Abrahamic belief. On one hand God (here known as the Great Will or Axiom) really did create everything but similar to Gnosticism a desire to interact with his creation led to the creation of the flawed avatar YHVH, who not only can be either interpretation of the Demiurge depending on the game but also can be split into the actual Demiurge in SJ. Though as I said before this does causes problems with the story and alignment balance (despite Law also fighting YHVH) as they often go with the evil interpretation and don't really do the best job (outside of SMT4A) explaining the two are separate characters for the player. Also when the Demiurge does appear as his own thing without being connected YHVH he tends to get the short end of the stick story wise in SMT. (NINE being locked to the Xbox didn't help) Though I did like how P5 implemented Yaldabaoth and later in Royal contrasted him with Adam Kadmon.
the irony is that God cares about humanity far more than the Great Will ever has.
Yo nice video man great lore but i couldnt help notice everytime u said yaltaboath u pronounced it with 2 L's like yaltabloath its just yalda-baoth not yalda-blaoth
Yeah I kind of combine the two pronunciations as a mix up in my brain. My bad, I hope the vid was still alright though
Man that boss fight in P5 was hard as hell. Glad I had Izanagi-no-okomi Picaro. I wouldn't haven gotten to satanael without it.
P5 vanilla? i played Royal and honestly compared to 3FES and 4, even in my merciless run P5 was waaaaaaay to easy
Thanks for using video games to help someone like me get this. Lol
Always happy to get comments like this. Glad I could help!
Le demiurge has arrived
I'm going to use my power to create a world where billions and billions of people will live and be able to experience the wonders of being alive!
Basically demiurge is the martix 🤔🔥
man, I wish the Catholic church wasn't so good at eliminating everything that spooked it back then. So much information irretrievably lost.
Sadly the destruction of culture is a prevalent problem throughout all of history, At least we have what little remains
IMAGINE BEING TRAPPED IN THE PHYSICAL PLANE
COULDN'T BE ME!!!
-This post was made by Resides In The Pleroma Gang
I'll be transcending soon I think, I hope to see everyone in the astral plane
Hey! I know it's like a weird category.
But would you be able to cover like several of the "Human" demons, like Mad Gasser, Hooligan, Man-Eater and ..rastaman.
Love your vids btw!
Interesting, I might look into those at some point. Could make for a really interesting video
@@Tony4YouWow, wasn't respecting a response! Thanks!
What are the osts or the songs in the video called
Themes that feature heavily in Xenoblade
Am I the only one hearing him pronounce it as Yaldablaouth? It's been driving me insane the whole vid
yeah sorry lol I added an extra L out of habit, my bad!
Interestingly, the wrathful and deeply arrogant YHVH of SMT seems to act just like Demiurge: he subjugates his creations to his whims and demands worship of him.
If Demiurge is a "real" entity, then he probably resides in the 8th Sphere - also known as the Lower Astral Plane; this is where fallen angels, hellspawn, and trapped souls reside.
Gnostic certainly is an interesting topic and how many works of fiction especially smt tend to incorporate its beliefs into its themes.
The God of Abraham and Moses and prophet Muhammad - Yaldaboath
Bold words
This shit is terrifying if this is true🤦🏿♂️. One guy had an NDE and meant Yaldabaoth, said he was pretty cool, didn't hide anything or come off as deceptive, and admitted that he was in a battle against " the light " and talked a lot about duality and humanity's ignorance when it comes to good and evil. That being said, the being speaking in the old testament does not strike as someone all-powerful. I and before someone tries to criticize me, I can admit that given my faith in the most highs power, I could have been hallucinating, although I saw this being while not experiencing sleep paralysis. I encountered Samael last year, and it the most horrifying experience I've ever had in my life, this being was no God nor did he claim to be, he was sent by God. Doesn't mean the gnostics are wrong.
“I am god and there is no other god beside me “ this makes the INFANT ANNIHILATOR song lyric so much more badass . Had no idea it was quoting biblical shit
Few years of covid is enough to convert me into gnosticism, lol. Great video, Tony. Goodnight
Don't fall to heresy! Thanks for liking the video though lol
@@Tony4You well heresy for one, life goal for others. Escaping grasp of demiurge through gaining gnosis and escaping cycle of rebirth through gaining enlightenment seems same to me
It's quite a shame how little of Gnosticism is actually used in Persona 5. Would have been interesting seeing a more accurate Demiurge for example
This is heretical! Liked the video though lol
Is this what Tool believes in?
Rudolf Steiner's "Arhiman" is basically the Demiurge. I wonder if Ray Kurzweil's materialistic dream to become immortal using post humanist technology would too be considered Arhimanic or is it the human soul attempting to fight against the Demiurge and go beyond both opposites and dethrone both Gods?
Yeah I read about Ahriman during research and thought it would be too long to slot in and definitely deserves it's own video. All the concepts talked about even in this comment need a good amount of time to unpack lol
This man’s voice can make the phone book sound like it has important lore to megaten series
😳Thanks
PHONE BOOK LORE PHONE BOOK LORE
Could you approach the subject of Adam Kadmon, his history and linked to the subject of why Strikers is the sequel of Royal, you could close this debate before the arrival of the next and last Persona 5 game, thanks you in advance and thanks for all this knowledge transmitted !
I could definitely look into it! I am exploring all about that aspect of the games right now and and just trying to work out how to best tackle it
@@Tony4You Sounds Great ! I've already done some research on my side but I think I just know the main lines, partly thanks to wikipedia, so I've already built my own version and I can't wait to see yours :D, now that I think about it a video on the kabbalah will be more explanatory, you just mentioned Monad so I guess you can be fine with it, who will be the final boss of the next P5 logically and I had never heard of Barbalo, it surprised me, I never found anything about her.
Good stuff!!! #1 spot to increase your channel's engagement P R O M O S M!!!
Hmm I watching this and at 4:05 isn't that the same sorta image that the Demon Mitra uses? (Maybe he explains why but....well I'll delete it if he does)
The name really reminds me of the anime Overlord
Ayyy, nice! Was looking forward to this one.
I am translating and writing my comments on Pistis Sophia. I would like to ask you something. Many active imaginations arise in this process. Several times I saw myself in a pearly green place, as if it were a canal and I was with Jesus, a woman in flowing dresses and Adam Kadmon. When I arrived at Ein Sof's place, I almost fainted. Will I die? Do you know anyone who died doing this?
I really like these lore videos, very insightful. Keep it up :)
Really appreciate it, glad people are as into this stuff as I am
"YaldebLaoth"
I did my first ever college paper on how this guy and Plato's realm of ideas defined some of the most core aspects of Christianity. I never get tired of learning of him. I mean, a false god that created the material, giving new light to the who the devil is and what he represents? A godlike demon with power over all of creation? That's not getting into bogomilism and how it may connect to the satanael of that religion/belief system.
It’s so hard to know the truth of this matter. Everything is so corrupt and it’s a 2000 year game if telephone. Safest bet is follow Jesus Christ alone. He is the true God. Seek His face. Man I just love Him so much.
in the video you mentioned Sophia as well, who is the one who performs the fusions in SMT5. Coincidence?
Interesting to think about, SMTV has more to uncover it seems
Sophia only reveals herself as the actual Sophia after 75% compendium completion
When I was seeing the trailers for smtvv, I thought the Qaditsu were aiming to revive Samael, the Demiurge, since they were the wives of Samael and with all the snake symbolism and Maestama being a part of the story too, I thought they were working together to revive YHVH. Turned out it was Tiamat
I thought Lucifer was just afraid to fight his daddy