Yes!! this was the comparison video i was looking for :) My take: Waves has a warmer better frequency definition if you will (then again we need to compare against an actual SSL to see) Brainworx is a bit flatter but waay more 3D i feel that snare a lot more in my face and it's like a blanket was removed from the speakers UAD is brighter, but still has that 3Dness i found in the brainworx. i think brainworx wins overall, but waves definitely is competitive again... just like 5 years too late. The newer brainworx consoles are soo much better though! this was one of their first consoles they released. The 9000J is so good! now to listen to your take *unpause* haha.
@H R I agree it is pretty clean and that’s why studios loved the console for mixing. I feel like it adds an amazing glue to the source though. It’s like clean with analog glue. And often that’s what I want from an ssl. I can never get that same glue from an api or neve emulation.
Thank you, Mike! Wow, go Brainworx. Especially switching to brown knob. All usable. Personally, a Waves EV2 user but that’s by chance from where I started out.
Wow, cool demo track! I really like the input gain options on the EV2. On my windows PC, using similar settings, EV2 uses about 3 times as much CPU as BX 4000 E, 10 times as much as Waves original E Channel, and and maybe 25-30% less than CLA Mixhub. I think I'll stick with BX for most channels, but the EV2 could certainly find its way into my workflow on select tracks.
9:20 never bothered with UAD because of how you HAVE to buy hardware to be allowed to use their plugins. Having heard them in a shootout, I don’t think I’m missing anything.
I’ve been a UAD user since they first began, the fact I still am when so many other manufacturers have become plugin history, should tell you something. The Pultec emus are a particular favourite for me, the SSL Gcomp is much deeper than the waves or others I’ve tried, similarly the APi2500 makes waves version sound cartoonish. I like alot of waves stuff, and in some cases would use the waves api/gcomp in place of UAD but for the closest real world version of a classic piece of hardware, I don’t believe anyone does better, except perhaps brainworx and I have most of their plugs too. Don’t forget the UAD Apollo system also has unison allowing to track through these plugins in real time. Its a great system, maybe expensive to get into but I’ve not once thought it wasn’t worth it.
I liked this video. Very practical comparison. I liked how vocals sounded on UAD, and I like the mid-range frequencies on the BX, but at the same time I liked the neutrality of the Waves. Only time and usage will tell who's is the winner here.
In my opinion the UAD sounds clearer through the whole sound spectrum. While it may be more forgiving to have a plug in seem lofi in the higher frequencies, if you want the control, it's UAD for me. I don't think UAD gets it right all the time, and this plug can sound brittle. But for me it's the choice over the others with rounded top end. Thanks!
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers, mvh
I liked them all. And ultimately, despite the subtle differences with the same settings, I feel they could be matched fairly close if desired. For example: The Waves was a tad brighter but could no doubt be tweaked to match the Brainworx. That said, perhaps the Waves may be better in the long run because that clarity is harder to emulate from the outset. Put a Pultec in a submix later on, and you've got some nice definition coupled with some creamy warmth, etc. In any event, really nice shoot out here. I appreciate the work. ✌️
Mike - Thanks for this ! And after all is said - which SSL 4000E do YOU (have you) actually use these days on a client track , considering all the WAVES, PluginAlliance and UA options ? And which console(s) in general have you actually used the last 3 - 6 months on released work ?
The J and K series consoles are identical sonically. The K series updated surround routing options and added a more powerful computer for automation. The differences would not make a difference in a DAW
1. Brainworx - the depth is amazing 2. Waves - sounds great but missing the openness of the Brainworx 3. UAD - highs are too harsh. And soundstage smaller than other two My conclusion. For $29, can't go wrong with the Waves but I have the v1 waves, Brainworx, and UAD already so not going to grab it.
I recently upgraded/modernized a lot of my software. Had the orig Waves SSL. Got the Brainworks. Dramatic difference to my ears. I'm happy with that but I'm glad to see Waves update the OG SSL to keep pace. It was a bit lacking. But still a great plug regardless.
Nice job Mike so many nuggets of knowledge! I would use the brain works on the verses and the UAD on the Chorus set the way they are. The UAD sounds good when there's lots of space Because of this lightly exaggerated mid high.
I must get the Brainworx Version as it sounds better than the WavesEV2 Version which I own. Update: I'll still use both as the Waves Version 2 has a better bottom end (Especially using the black EQ) Would I still use a channel strip on the FX busses as well...like a channel strip then for example add a Reverb after (Hopefully this makes sense) since on an SSL console the effects will be going through one of many channels?
Hi Mike! Great and necessary vid, imo. I have a question for you: Branworx uses a flavourless softclipper on all of their consoles afaik, and to me the BX sounded soft, and almost vintage in that sense. They also have entirely inacurate frequency markings, so that you boost 50hz on a kick, and think it sounds huge because it's actually boosting 40hz etc etc... also theres a 0.3 db boost as soon as you engage it (or some small number like that). The UAD is hard, and edgy, giving sounds a dense-ness and physicality that, to me, sets it apart as being "hardwarey" As you are the ultimate expert on all things SSL, is my assertion correct? Is the uad the most hardware sounding, just as a general concept? Or do I not understand what hardware sounds like?
All the emulations sound closer to each other with the brown knob engaged, however, there is a noticeable difference when the black eq is engaged. Both the waves and bx don't sound as clear as the UAD. The UAD might have ballistics which vary or may be hyped, who knows, comments such as shrill or too bright. Having worked in BBC Maida Vale studios on an SSL desk, I can say hands down, the UAD is the closest emulation, at least for the board I was working on. The first thing that struck me with the real SSL board in that studio, was how dry, clinical and clean the desk was. We had 16k boosted almost fully to compensate for the COLS mics being darker, in a huge deadened sound proofed studio, which produced this stunning sweet super clear high end, a high end I have not heard on any desk since, which I am hearing on the UAD emulation, erm to an extend. The other point re the desk, IMHO, is that when layering tracks, you want a neutral, almost bland clear tone, after all, 20 or so tracks are being layered and stacked, so without having to filter and cut huge amounts, some of the lifting is being done already, a signal being too shrill can always be darkened, much harder to do the other way round. Plus using ribbon mics / cols mics etc, the warmth is balanced out. Every emulation is different, but it's not how good the desk sounds on one source and or one mix, it's how it functions, when stacked with tracks in a session, and I can hear that the UAD one would do the best job with less fiddling, in my opinion. I don't want this to be a direct plug for UAD, ironically I don't own UAD plugins, I use what is in the studio. Finally, the waves and bx, have a smooth sound, and a bit of depth, possibly, but that depth can be created from the ground up and should not be relied up switching that on in an entire mix, however, invariably I find the plugin that tends to be the most neutral or genuine to the outboard gear, tends to be the one I go for. Having said all that, granted different outboard gear does produce a different tone and reaction and spacial depth within the same make, that said, I'd go for the UAD hands down and worry about creating fancy depth overall in the mix by other means such as positioning and panning and early reflections and the list goes on. For some the UAD might sound shrill, but if you use the right mic in the right treated room, and are aware of what you want to offset, all I can say is that the real ssl desk, some of them at least, produce this searing sweet crystal clear, tweed like almost sharp clarity. We even joked that the top end was like a searing sheet of metal that could cut through glass, in a good way and without labouring this point, which I am doing, so many say, why is the high-end so harsh? Not implementing the use of a de-esser or in our case, a dry padded room with a COLS mic, (a natural de-esser). Many synth sounds are harsh or hyped, much of the prep before the recording is not done, so the room is not treated and the incorrect mic is applied, soap-box rant over, but by far, the UAD mid range clarity on the vocals and centre information stretching out to the lows and the highs, does by far the best job here. I think I need to invest in my own set of UAD plugins ;).
Hey Mike! Have you tried/reviewed the Vertigo Sound VSM-4? I have the Kelvin, but I'm wondering if the VSM-4 would be a nice addition for mastering. Sounds quite different from the VSM-3 from what I heard. Cheers!
Comparing the original waves ssl channel to the T-Racks Ssl channel, the T Racks won hands down. Plugin Alliance are doing some incredible stuff too! 👏
I would be interested in a shoot-out with the three Waves versions in plugin doctor. I know that I already love my UAD version and am not likey to buy a waves of BX version.
So i saw on a YT channel that the EV2 nulls completely with the CLA Mixhub and that one i already have, just like the BX and ofcourse the old Waves channels. So no need to buy EV2!
Well, you can turn of the analog harmonics and tweek the eq till it almost nulls like Paul Third did. But they won't null if you have the 'analog' button engaged. And EV2 comes with 2 distinct eqs, black (similar curves to mixhub) and brown.
In my own comparisons nothing comes even close to the UAD version. When you start pushing the channel strip, you will immediately hear what separates UAD from the rest. On mild settings all plugins sound pretty similar. The difference becomes obvious on extreme settings and that's the way to test and compare the sound quality of plugins.
Extreme settings is not the way to test plugins unless you are using extreme settings 100% of the time which we don’t. I have all 3. The UA, beyond eating up my Octos, is softer. It’s not as snappy as the others. A little too clean, unless pushed.
This plug is a big let down. Not because of the sound or anything to do with the quality but because it nulls with waves CLA SSL. All they did was rebrand/ change the GUI of one of their already existing plugins. To me that’s a BS move on their part in terms of integrity and transparency with their customer base.
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers, mvh
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers, mvh
Yes!! this was the comparison video i was looking for :)
My take:
Waves has a warmer better frequency definition if you will (then again we need to compare against an actual SSL to see)
Brainworx is a bit flatter but waay more 3D i feel that snare a lot more in my face and it's like a blanket was removed from the speakers
UAD is brighter, but still has that 3Dness i found in the brainworx.
i think brainworx wins overall, but waves definitely is competitive again... just like 5 years too late. The newer brainworx consoles are soo much better though! this was one of their first consoles they released. The 9000J is so good! now to listen to your take *unpause* haha.
@H R I agree it is pretty clean and that’s why studios loved the console for mixing. I feel like it adds an amazing glue to the source though. It’s like clean with analog glue. And often that’s what I want from an ssl. I can never get that same glue from an api or neve emulation.
Appreciate the video. For me it's between BX and UAD.
Thank you, Mike! Wow, go Brainworx. Especially switching to brown knob. All usable. Personally, a Waves EV2 user but that’s by chance from where I started out.
Another great video, Mike. Wish you included the Console 1 strip in the mix :)
Wow, cool demo track! I really like the input gain options on the EV2. On my windows PC, using similar settings, EV2 uses about 3 times as much CPU as BX 4000 E, 10 times as much as Waves original E Channel, and and maybe 25-30% less than CLA Mixhub. I think I'll stick with BX for most channels, but the EV2 could certainly find its way into my workflow on select tracks.
9:20 never bothered with UAD because of how you HAVE to buy hardware to be allowed to use their plugins. Having heard them in a shootout, I don’t think I’m missing anything.
Absolutely uad always will be a waste of money brain works definitely worth it
I’ve been a UAD user since they first began, the fact I still am when so many other manufacturers have become plugin history, should tell you something. The Pultec emus are a particular favourite for me, the SSL Gcomp is much deeper than the waves or others I’ve tried, similarly the APi2500 makes waves version sound cartoonish.
I like alot of waves stuff, and in some cases would use the waves api/gcomp in place of UAD but for the closest real world version of a classic piece of hardware, I don’t believe anyone does better, except perhaps brainworx and I have most of their plugs too.
Don’t forget the UAD Apollo system also has unison allowing to track through these plugins in real time.
Its a great system, maybe expensive to get into but I’ve not once thought it wasn’t worth it.
I liked this video. Very practical comparison. I liked how vocals sounded on UAD, and I like the mid-range frequencies on the BX, but at the same time I liked the neutrality of the Waves. Only time and usage will tell who's is the winner here.
In my opinion the UAD sounds clearer through the whole sound spectrum. While it may be more forgiving to have a plug in seem lofi in the higher frequencies, if you want the control, it's UAD for me. I don't think UAD gets it right all the time, and this plug can sound brittle. But for me it's the choice over the others with rounded top end. Thanks!
Can you pleas do the SSL one from Solid State Logic
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers,
mvh
It seems you had the brainworx in bypass in 16:00 on mark??
I liked them all. And ultimately, despite the subtle differences with the same settings, I feel they could be matched fairly close if desired. For example: The Waves was a tad brighter but could no doubt be tweaked to match the Brainworx. That said, perhaps the Waves may be better in the long run because that clarity is harder to emulate from the outset. Put a Pultec in a submix later on, and you've got some nice definition coupled with some creamy warmth, etc. In any event, really nice shoot out here. I appreciate the work. ✌️
Mike - Thanks for this ! And after all is said - which SSL 4000E do YOU (have you) actually use these days on a client track , considering all the WAVES, PluginAlliance and UA options ?
And which console(s) in general have you actually used the last 3 - 6 months on released work ?
The UAD SSL is more Analog sounding. I use Waves a lot and I would say UAD is sweeter, it just needs you to not drive to vst too much.
My preferred SSL is still the 9000J, I think they are working on a 9000K series?
The J and K series consoles are identical sonically. The K series updated surround routing options and added a more powerful computer for automation. The differences would not make a difference in a DAW
The smartest man on the web
I have both the Waves and the Brainworx. For drums the Waves wins because of the punch of the compressor.
1. Brainworx - the depth is amazing
2. Waves - sounds great but missing the openness of the Brainworx
3. UAD - highs are too harsh. And soundstage smaller than other two
My conclusion. For $29, can't go wrong with the Waves but I have the v1 waves, Brainworx, and UAD already so not going to grab it.
Like the song....what drums were use (addictive drums?)
Thanks mike! Great as usual!! What band is playing here?
I recently upgraded/modernized a lot of my software. Had the orig Waves SSL. Got the Brainworks. Dramatic difference to my ears. I'm happy with that but I'm glad to see Waves update the OG SSL to keep pace. It was a bit lacking. But still a great plug regardless.
Nice job Mike so many nuggets of knowledge! I would use the brain works on the verses and the UAD on the Chorus set the way they are. The UAD sounds good when there's lots of space Because of this lightly exaggerated mid high.
This eats my cpu at 10-11% per instance on my pre-M1 mac. Just not usable if used on several tracks. Will happily stick with Brainworx.
U must be using Studio One. Lot less than that in other DAWs. On native M1 Logic, it’s negligible
U must be using Studio One. Lot less than that in other DAWs. On native M1 Logic, it’s negligible
U must be using Studio One. Lot less than that in other DAWs. On native M1 Logic, it’s negligible
U must be using Studio One. A lot less than that in other DAWs. On native M1 Logic, it’s negligible
@@d3vp131 how many instances of EV2 can you have running on tracks? EQ and compression?
BX was the clear winner to me
I must get the Brainworx Version as it sounds better than the WavesEV2 Version which I own.
Update: I'll still use both as the Waves Version 2 has a better bottom end (Especially using the black EQ)
Would I still use a channel strip on the FX busses as well...like a channel strip then for example add a Reverb after (Hopefully this makes sense) since on an SSL console the effects will be going through one of many channels?
Hi Mike! Great and necessary vid, imo. I have a question for you:
Branworx uses a flavourless softclipper on all of their consoles afaik, and to me the BX sounded soft, and almost vintage in that sense. They also have entirely inacurate frequency markings, so that you boost 50hz on a kick, and think it sounds huge because it's actually boosting 40hz etc etc... also theres a 0.3 db boost as soon as you engage it (or some small number like that).
The UAD is hard, and edgy, giving sounds a dense-ness and physicality that, to me, sets it apart as being "hardwarey"
As you are the ultimate expert on all things SSL, is my assertion correct?
Is the uad the most hardware sounding, just as a general concept?
Or do I not understand what hardware sounds like?
All the emulations sound closer to each other with the brown knob engaged, however, there is a noticeable difference when the black eq is engaged. Both the waves and bx don't sound as clear as the UAD. The UAD might have ballistics which vary or may be hyped, who knows, comments such as shrill or too bright. Having worked in BBC Maida Vale studios on an SSL desk, I can say hands down, the UAD is the closest emulation, at least for the board I was working on. The first thing that struck me with the real SSL board in that studio, was how dry, clinical and clean the desk was. We had 16k boosted almost fully to compensate for the COLS mics being darker, in a huge deadened sound proofed studio, which produced this stunning sweet super clear high end, a high end I have not heard on any desk since, which I am hearing on the UAD emulation, erm to an extend. The other point re the desk, IMHO, is that when layering tracks, you want a neutral, almost bland clear tone, after all, 20 or so tracks are being layered and stacked, so without having to filter and cut huge amounts, some of the lifting is being done already, a signal being too shrill can always be darkened, much harder to do the other way round. Plus using ribbon mics / cols mics etc, the warmth is balanced out. Every emulation is different, but it's not how good the desk sounds on one source and or one mix, it's how it functions, when stacked with tracks in a session, and I can hear that the UAD one would do the best job with less fiddling, in my opinion. I don't want this to be a direct plug for UAD, ironically I don't own UAD plugins, I use what is in the studio. Finally, the waves and bx, have a smooth sound, and a bit of depth, possibly, but that depth can be created from the ground up and should not be relied up switching that on in an entire mix, however, invariably I find the plugin that tends to be the most neutral or genuine to the outboard gear, tends to be the one I go for. Having said all that, granted different outboard gear does produce a different tone and reaction and spacial depth within the same make, that said, I'd go for the UAD hands down and worry about creating fancy depth overall in the mix by other means such as positioning and panning and early reflections and the list goes on. For some the UAD might sound shrill, but if you use the right mic in the right treated room, and are aware of what you want to offset, all I can say is that the real ssl desk, some of them at least, produce this searing sweet crystal clear, tweed like almost sharp clarity. We even joked that the top end was like a searing sheet of metal that could cut through glass, in a good way and without labouring this point, which I am doing, so many say, why is the high-end so harsh? Not implementing the use of a de-esser or in our case, a dry padded room with a COLS mic, (a natural de-esser). Many synth sounds are harsh or hyped, much of the prep before the recording is not done, so the room is not treated and the incorrect mic is applied, soap-box rant over, but by far, the UAD mid range clarity on the vocals and centre information stretching out to the lows and the highs, does by far the best job here. I think I need to invest in my own set of UAD plugins ;).
UAD sound good threw the Adam A7X monitors
Hey Mike! Have you tried/reviewed the Vertigo Sound VSM-4? I have the Kelvin, but I'm wondering if the VSM-4 would be a nice addition for mastering. Sounds quite different from the VSM-3 from what I heard. Cheers!
Plugin Alliance/ Bx for the win‼️‼️‼️ (glad I own it) 😅
UA can only be used on busses unless you have a few Octos.
What band is it playing?
Comparing the original waves ssl channel to the T-Racks Ssl channel, the T Racks won hands down. Plugin Alliance are doing some incredible stuff too! 👏
I would be interested in a shoot-out with the three Waves versions in plugin doctor. I know that I already love my UAD version and am not likey to buy a waves of BX version.
The ev2 sounds better than both of them I have all of the even the duende n the ev2 every clean n smooth
The UAD just sounded SSL to me, a bit tighter to my ears. WAVES sounds reliably waves, and BX seemed loose to me.
WINNER - Waves.
PRIZES - $29
Great video. Thanks
BX sounded best to me, more open and smooth, with more depth. The Waves is close to it, just a bit less open. Didn’t like the UA, shrill and thin.
To my ears and taste the Waves EV2 sounds better. However the PA SSL E sounds better than EV2 on electric guitars in my opinion.
Waves version to my taste......
So i saw on a YT channel that the EV2 nulls completely with the CLA Mixhub and that one i already have, just like the BX and ofcourse the old Waves channels. So no need to buy EV2!
But does it sound different?
@@zachary963 you can tweak until it nulls but in levelling itaounds a littlebit different. so they differ in parameter values. for me that's fraude...
Well, you can turn of the analog harmonics and tweek the eq till it almost nulls like Paul Third did. But they won't null if you have the 'analog' button engaged.
And EV2 comes with 2 distinct eqs, black (similar curves to mixhub) and brown.
In my own comparisons nothing comes even close to the UAD version. When you start pushing the channel strip, you will immediately hear what separates UAD from the rest.
On mild settings all plugins sound pretty similar. The difference becomes obvious on extreme settings and that's the way to test and compare the sound quality of plugins.
Extreme settings is not the way to test plugins unless you are using extreme settings 100% of the time which we don’t. I have all 3. The UA, beyond eating up my Octos, is softer. It’s not as snappy as the others. A little too clean, unless pushed.
Great point! harmonic distortion (especially with EQ) is everything with SSL! That's the SSL sound people know.
How much UAD DSP do you have sir?! :)))
UAD is unbeatable in my opinion.
Waves win 👍🏻
Boooooooooo waves
This plug is a big let down. Not because of the sound or anything to do with the quality but because it nulls with waves CLA SSL. All they did was rebrand/ change the GUI of one of their already existing plugins. To me that’s a BS move on their part in terms of integrity and transparency with their customer base.
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers,
mvh
UA can only be used on busses unless you have a few Octos.
I have the Waves EV2 and CLA Mixhub as well as the BrainWorks SSL G channel. I honestly can’t decide which one I like best however, they all sound great. I like the mix compression knob for parallel compression on the BW and Mixhub - why Waves never incorporated that into the EV2 is a mystery to me. Enjoyed your video - thanks for sharing - Cheers,
mvh