Did Old Testament believers possess the Holy Spirit the same way as the New Testament believers?
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- Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2018
- Did Old Testament believers possess the Holy Spirit in the same way as New Testament believers? From Ligonier’s 2017 National Conference, Stephen Nichols, Derek Thomas, and Michael Horton explain the significance of Pentecost. If you have a biblical or theological question, just visit Ask.Ligonier.org to ask your question live online. ask.ligonier.org/
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And as he spoke to me, the Spirit entered into me and set me on my feet, and I heard him speaking to me. Eze 2:2
Believers don't possess the Spirit, the Spirit possesses the believer. To possess the Spirit means a believer has ownership of the Holy Spirit! But, we are owned by God and sealed by the Spirit.
We have "ownership" of Him. He is the pledge of our inheritance. The earnest money.
@@joshuatheo1419 The "property" doesn't own the down payment! The down payment is a seal or pledge that the one who gave the down payment will fullfil all future obligations to secure the property until every obligation is met. The down payment secures and holds and keeps the property, but the property doesn't own the down payment. The property is owned by the one who gave the down payment. "You are not your own (you do not belong to yourself) you were bought with a price." The moment you trust Jesus as your Savior He gives the Holy Spirit as a down payment of ownership. Ownership is permanent because God never goes back on His promises. Once the seal or pledge or promise is made, He will not back out of the promise to fulfill every obligation and take full possession of the property. No way does the property own the down payment.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, and his people, saying, Where is he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where is he that put his holy Spirit within him?
The proper translation in "in the midst on them". As in the Tabernacle. Now in the new covenant there is no tabernacle or priest, we are the tabernacle and Jesus Christ is our High Priest. 1 Corinthians 3:16
@@user-bo3lc8fu5e
The following proves you are correct.
Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit)
Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. (Acts 10:38) The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church?
The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again)
Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.)
Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
(See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment)
============
Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says?
What did Peter say below?
Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning.
Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water/ every time they read the word "baptize" in the text.
Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage?
Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13)
“baptize” KJV
Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.)
Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5)
Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant)
How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist?
Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ?
Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant
(ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation.
(Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation.
(GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things.
(KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation.
(KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357
(NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
(NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established.
(YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them .
I like the thought of Mike and Stephen but I really feel as though Derek captures the heart of Holy Spirits redemptive work.
Before we deal with John 20 we should be mindful of John 14,15,16&17.
He said He WILL send ANOTHER COUNSELLOR...
Romans8: 8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
There are multiple points to make in regards to wether the old testament believer had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. If you are in the flesh, according to Paul, you are not in the Spirit, and the Holy Spirit does not dwell in you. Where all old testament believers in the flesh? They couldn't be, or else they couldn't please God or be saved. For to be carnally minded is death, and the carnal mind or flesh is at enmity or in conflict with God. Neither can the carnal mind/flesh be subject to the law of God. How far away are David's words from the flesh when he says, Psalm 119:97 O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.
"Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His." Christ says I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes unto the father but by me. They only way of salvation that has ever existed, for all time, from Adam to the last men on earth, is through Christ by faith, through His Spirit. If anyone, wether in old or new testament, does not have the Spirit, he is not Christ's. Faith, an integral part of every child of God, in the old and new, is a product of not only the Holy Spirit's work in us to produce faith, but His union with us by indwelling us. I Corinthians 6 17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit. Or 19." What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? " Paul says, to those who have true faith, you are not your own, but God's, and you are united to Christ, by His Spirit. And that unity is no small unity, it is eternal, it is unchangeable, it is perfect, and it is shared by all those who are adopted into God's heavenly family.
Galatians 5:22-24
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires" When Paul mentions those who belong to Christ Jesus, this necessarily has to include old testament believers, or else they are all damned, because no one comes to the father but through Christ. And who will say that old testament believers did not belong to Christ? And if they did belong to Christ, then they crucified the passions and desires of the flesh like we do. How did they do it? By the power and gift of the Holy Spirit in them as stated here in Galations. That is the only way, either you are in the flesh, and do not crucify the desires of the flesh, or you are in the Spirit, and you crucify the desires daily. See Romans 6.
I could go on and on about Justification, Sanctification, the Resurrection, etc, all these things are done by our union with the Holy Spirit. And these things are done both to the Old and the New Testament believers because there is only one method of salvation, there is one faith, and one Lord, and one baptism. I'm sorry if this is poorly explained, or written in a confusing way, but I know and believe these things to be true. God Bless!
Great job of explaining
That’s all very good until you get to what happened at Pentecost. What exactly happened there according to you? Did they not get the Holy Spirit there and then? And by the way this is after Peter professed faith in Jesus Christ.
"THE LORD GOD AND HIS SPIRIT HAS SENT ME" (ISAIAH 48:16)
If baptism in the Holy Spirit is part and parcel of conversion as opposed to an experience distinct from conversion, then were Old Testament saints, for whom the promise of the Father was something in the future and outside of the old covenant framework, fully converted without baptism in the Holy Spirit?
No. See Hebrews 11:39-40. New Testament saints have that "better thing" than any OT saint had, which is assurance--that is, personal assurance of eternal life given by the Holy Spirit. Jesus even said of John the Baptist that he was less than the least in His kingdom (Matthew 11:11).
1John 4:1-4🙏
If OT saints were indwelled by Holy Spirit, how can we interpret " Take not Thy Holy Spirit from me .." , " the Spirit of the Lord left Saul .." . Etc.
It wasn't the lack of the holy ghost that didn't make the old testament saints go to heaven,but the first from redemption have to open the then others follow.Jesus is the center of all things and everything waits on him,because it's all about him 😇
I guess you have to ask by what authority does the author of Hebrews then declare those OT figures 'righteous' - I say they had to have some internal witness imparted by God as to the authority of the very call they received and had to respond and obediently do in what the NT book of Hebrews said they did - they acted and are set apart because of that impartation - the shadow and witness of a future fulfilled in Christ (Yeshua) - as in those named were both given the empowerment to fulfil God requests and calls in their lifetimes and contexts AND the future promise of the work of Yeshua (Christ) being completed - on the Cross and at the last day. A very supernatural reality for them.
The Spirit had to be present in the Old Testament in order to write the Old Testament prophecies, or as a matter of biblical fact *the entire Old Testament* being written as the Spirit lead them, had to be present! I'm not talking about indwelling within the Old Testament writers, I'm talking.... the Spirit came upon them or overshadowed them, as in the case with Mary when the Holy Spirit overshadowed her before Pentecost. Still I love Derek's simple explanation... but I'm confused about the indwelling part....but do see that Ezekiel 2:2 is an indwelling. 🤔
And in order for people to be saved on the OT.
Hard topic!
Nay, only hard heads and hard hearts.
These people are jokes Moses had the holy
( Isaiah 63vs10-12)
David had the holy ghost in Psalms 51vs11-13).
2 Peter 1vs21 says men of old time had the holy ghost.
To me the difference is on your shoulder or in your heart - bc + ad
This question has always bothered me. There doesn’t seem to be a clear answer. What’s the difference between Old and New covenant Spirit indwelling?
One difference is the fact that before Pentecost, as found in the Acts of the Apostles, the Spirit was
only indwelling some...yet they had to be born again for this to be true.
After Pentecost, the Spirit is poured unto "all flesh", meaning that his indwelling presence is not limited to those members of the Old covenant community, but rather the New Covenant community.
Does this make sense to you? Ty.
Saved By_Grace No. I don’t understand. - Assuming as does the speakers here, that the the Spirit is necessary for conversion and it’s dwelling a consequence of Salvation, even in the Old covenant. How is the new covenant dwelling of the Spirit different than the Old?
I don't think there is a difference in regards to the indwelling of the Spirit besides the fact under the Old economy, regeneration was for some of the beleiving members of the covenant community of ethnic Israel and now, regeneration is expanded to believing people of all nations. That's what I meant to be understood. Thank you.
@@roycevanblaricome634 ἐν
en (in) 1 Peter 1:11 English Standard Version (ESV)
11 inquiring what person or time[a] the Spirit of Christ "in them" was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories.
How do you exegete this text in light of the Greek preposition "in" not "with"?
@Deb Harris Regeneration is the evidence that salvation has ocurred.
The answer is not that complicated ... before the cross the Holy Spirit was with the elect. As David prayed, "Take not thy Holy Spirit from me" Whereas after the cross, the sins of the believer have been completely atoned for and washed away by the blood of Christ Jesus and therefore the Holy Spirit can now reside in the believer by way of the new nature born in us at the moment of regeneration. Shalom and Maranatha!!
@Deb Harris No, you cannot lose your salvation.
@@sukka4pain you can if you do not abide in him. Jesus makes it clear in parables. Also you are not saved until the next age. Salvation is a race. It is a free gift but it must be treated properly.
@@codyalexander3290 wow you have no idea what salvation is at all. You got yours from yourself and so you depend on yourself
What a fabrication
@@iacoponefurio1915 not true
@@codyalexander3290 sorry Cody that is all unbiblical mate. When salvation occurs, God gives the forgiven sinner a new heart and puts a new spirit within him (Ezekiel 36:26). The Spirit will cause the saved person to walk in obedience to God’s Word (Ezekiel 36:26-27; James 2:26). Numerous passages of Scripture declare the fact that, as an act of God, salvation is secure:
Romans 8:30 declares, "And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified." This verse tells us that from the moment God chooses us, it is as if we are glorified in His presence in heaven. There is nothing that can prevent a believer from one day being glorified because God has already purposed it in heaven. Once a person is justified, his salvation is guaranteed-he is as secure as if he is already glorified in heaven.
Paul asks two crucial questions in Romans 8:33-34 "Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us." Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? No one will, because Christ is our advocate. Who will condemn us? No one will, because Christ, the One who died for us, is the one who condemns. We have both the advocate and judge as our Savior.
Believers are born again (regenerated) when they believe (John 3:3; Titus 3:5). For a Christian to lose his salvation, he would have to be un-regenerated. The Bible gives no evidence that the new birth can be taken away.
The Holy Spirit indwells all believers (John 14:17; Romans 8:9) and baptizes all believers into the Body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:13). For a believer to become unsaved, he would have to be "un-indwelt" and detached from the Body of Christ.
John 3:15 states that whoever believes in Jesus Christ will "have eternal life." If you believe in Christ today and have eternal life, but lose it tomorrow, then it was never "eternal" at all. Hence, if you lose your salvation, the promises of eternal life in the Bible would be in error.
In a conclusive argument, Scripture says, "For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Romans 8:38-39). Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved, we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!
If you are saved your name is put in the book of life at the moment of your regeneration and that is not something you even have the capacity or desire ever to change ).
If indeed the OT Saint was in dwelt by the Holy Spirit as said by last speaker then one must ask why David prayed it would not be removed.
Was the OT Saint spiritually circumcised?
@The Prophet I think you missed my point. If the OT saint was indwelt by the Spirit like we are today, it could not be taken away.
@@olegig5166 I think there is a difference between the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in a regenerative sense and the Holy Spirit coming upon a person to grant them the power/wisdom/ability to do a certain task. All OT saints had the indwelling power of the Spirit in the regenerative capacity. Only certain ones were empowered by the Spirit for service. That is the main distinction (in my understanding), between the old and new covenants as it pertains to the Spirit, and why Pentecost was such a wonderful thing. The power of the Spirit had to come on all believers because the Gospel was going to go out into all the world not just by means of particular priests or prophets, but by means of the witness of every Christian. So Pentecost was the coming of the Spirit in power for service, not for regeneration. That was already happening. I hope that perspective is helpful.
*edit* To speak to your actual point, in light of the above, I believe David was fearful of losing the power of the Spirit in that leadership capacity, which he definitely needed if he were to remain God’s anointed as king.
@@reddust8234 my point was to show the OT Saint was not saved just like we are today. Yes they were visited by the Holy Spirit, but they were not in dwelt by the Spirit. Many misunderstandings of this come from an incomplete understanding of our salvation today. The Holy Spirit comes into us and our old spirit returns to the Father. (Eph 2:6) the in dwelling Spirit cuts our flesh from our soul (Spiritual circumcision) daily washing our soul in the Blood so the sins of the flesh cannot stain our soul.
The Holy Spirit keeps the Bride of Christ a chaste virgin until the day of full and complete salvation.
None of the above took place in the OT Saint because the blood could not be spread until it was shed.
We today are justified by the Faith of Christ (Gal 2:16), before this Faith came the OT Saint was kept by the Law. (Gal 3:23)
The OT Saint had to show their personal faith by their works, they could not simply ignore the works of the Law, they had to do them.
One must simply consider Luke 16, if the OT Saint was saved just like us, then why did one of the greatest of all, Abraham, not go to Heaven upon his physical death?
Sure something special happened at Pentecost, it was the giving of great power similar to what we see in some OT Saints like Samson; it gave the early apostles power to give signs like healing and speaking in foreign tongues so they could witness to the Jews of that day who required a sign. But Pentecost was not the receiving of the Holy Spirit like we do upon conversion because that had already taken place at:
And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: John 20:22 KJV
My point is to show many of today's so called scholars have no concept of OT salvation because they don't fully understand the workings of salvation today. The new versions have watered it down, removing the "how" from 1 Cor 15:3, how that Christ died, He bleed to death! The new versions have taught folks we are under the New Covenant rather than a New Testament. The only mention of the New Covenant in scripture is found at Heb 8:8 referring to Jer 31:33 and it is directed to the House of Israel.
I do not believe in Replacement Theology, do you? Has the Church replaced Israel in God's plan?
I hope this is helpful.
In Acts 2:1 says like, " on that Penticost day, as they were together with one accord in spirit " rite , so then my questions is, is their any specific events that the Jews observed a day of feast called by Penticost, I mean why Acts says, on the Penticost day and I don't see any mentioned of Penticost in old testament!
Wow… they really didn’t even answer it. They seemed a bit confused
Does this not prove that Apostles and prophets still live today? I don't believe they do, but this is confusing me now.
Why would it mean that?
No, absolutely not. In the Old Testament the Spirit came upon them and taught and guided the believers. In the New Testament, Christ has come, died, been resurrected and seated at the right hand of the throne of God. He is building His church by the Spirit and the Spirit has been sent from the Father to indwell the believers, giving Eternal Life and partaking of the Divine nature. Now we can love God because He first loved us, and we are now the children of God through the indwelling Holy Spirit. and redemption.
Very well said
amen
That does not answer the difference between Old and New Testament believers, in relation to the Holy Spirit.
Oh and reflect more in depth why he died for us on the cross because giants were people too but the enemy has corrupted their hearts and became wicked they didn’t asked to be like this and this corrupted but now we see that Jesus was 100% man and 100% God. How he demonstrated on the cross and more further in depth the we know in the word.
When you see and read about Abraham in genesis when God said that many nations will find a blessing in you let that sink in and go to Bible project and start from genesis you see that God was building his church those who love and choose to serve God after there encountered or not I still gotta read to be more honest. But you do see we are not perfect and you see more how faithful God is to you. Be thankful to God that Abraham listened to God and was willing to learn about faith.
something kinda tells me when we are at a brink of extinction because I don’t know what was going on there but as we see an example of nephilim happening and mankind turning their back on God and behold there was Noah.
you see his Love his mercy his extended hand of grace to build his foundation and to restore our relationship with him on the cross.
How do you reconcile the places were people were filled with the Spirit before the cross ?
This is where the church falls apart,how do explain 1king13:21,the bones of elijah raised up a dead man,it proves the indwell and permanency of the spirit of God by covenant,contrary to the modern church doctrine.The church don't have a different covenant but the same covenant of the God of Abraham,Isaac and Jacob,this how God choose to known forever.Jesus Christ didn't come to rewrite but to recall(zechariah).🙏
The True Israel was always the same if thats what you are saying. We have 2 covenants tho, if you are 'righteous enough' and follow the law God will most certainly accept you. He is not unjust. Haha. But That includes 1 person.
David also wrote .."so you are right when you judge"... He told Job "send all who sin to their graves..then i myself will admit to you that you can save yourself with your own right hand"...
The death rate is still 1 to 1. Even the only one who knew no sin suffered death. Life is much different. It is also written "Your dead will rise", "the earth will give birth to her dead" and "i will ransom these people from the power of the grave i will ransom them from death"..
Possess?
Ain't nobody ever "possesed" the Holy Spirit.
First answer was not good enough......Thomas hit it out of the park!!!!
Shalom.
The Holly spirit is the same
But is only have the ot your learning
Is become limit to 1/2 ,
Because true is that Jesus is the messiah, and not only that is a reality in our life's,
He also help for the edification of the Torah by the nt , selecting,
12 apostle,that represents the 12 rock of the altar, and the 12 tribe of Israel,
He is the only intermediary we have ,and only way to forgive signs is by Jesus Christ and the cross,
And the reason for that is because
Nobody wants to hear he's voice,
Because all's rebellions and transmissions , and desovidiens
That's why he's been calling the 7 church leaders by he's, messenger and nobody show's up yet ,
Shalom,7👼
The more they talk the more they get confused. NO, the Old Testament believers did NOT have In dwelling of spirit, it was upon them. And NONE were born again, until after the covenant was fulfilled... by blood.. then many were born again. As is stated seen walking on streets after resurrection. I pray soon everyone will get on same page but I’m not sure that will ever happen.
Yes. I do believe that the Scripture teaches that the OT saints were indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
The outpouring, coming upon etc, is talking about the special gifts given to aid the person, but does not necessary mean saved.
Just as King Saul was and the false prophet Balaam.
king David in Psalm 51 was praying concerning the Spirit's power to lead as King of Israel. He was afraid just like Saul, when the Spirit was taken away, when he disobeyed and sinned against God.
The indwelling of the Spirit implies a permanent residence in the believer. That was not so in the Old Covenant. In the New Covenant, the Spirit makes us a new creation, the old is passed away. In the Old Covenant man was not made new (regeneration). The Spirit was UPON old covenant saints to empower them to do God's work. The Holy Spirit RESIDES IN new covenant believers to empower them to do God's work AND to change the heart. The inward man was not changed by the Spirit in the Old Covenant. They were not born again by the Spirit. We are told that they could not be made perfect until the new covenant was in effect. That's why they looked forward to the promise even though they would die before it was fulfilled. They were saved by their faith in the promise of the Messiah, although not being made perfect "without us." Jesus said John the Baptist was the least of all those who come after him. He was the last of the Old Testament prophets. The age of the New Covenant was beginning and this Covenant is founded on better promises! Under the New Covenant, God "has perfected forever those who are sanctified." We are sanctified by the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. The Holy Spirit being the "seal of the promise" implies that the down payment on the property (believer) has been made with the promise of fulfilling every future obligation to possess ownership of that property. There was no such covenant promise under the Old Covenant.
Regarding your statement that the OT saints were not made new. Why did Jesus ask Nicodemus how he did not KNOW that he “must be born again?” As was stated in the video. Being born again is as much an OT truth as it is a NT truth.
@@Greiciunas1 No, it isn't.
@@graftme3168
Ok. So what was the spiritual condition of Abraham when he believed God and it was counted to him as righteousness, as described in Hebrews 11?
@@Greiciunas1 The new birth was a future promise when the Messiah came. The Old Testament tells us that the New Covenant would not be as the old covenant because in the New Covenant God would give believers a new heart. Men were not born of the Spirit until after Christ's death and resurrection. The Holy Spirit indwells believers permanently in the new, but only "came upon" people temporarily in the old.
@@graftme3168 Sorry Graft Me, but you are wrong. Every saint is born again. The difference is we are born of water and of the Spirit. We believe the gospel of grace (born of water of the word) and then we are born of the Spirit who indwells us and joins us to the glorified Christ in Heaven.
Being born again is God taking a dealing with man and opening his spiritual eyes to 'see' and then respond to the gospel of grace. Many do not understand what it is to be born again (anew). The Old Testament saints need to be born again in order to have faith in Jehovah.
I get the gist... That they are not sure of what they're saying. Lol..
Holy Spirit are Greek gods' terms or words. In the Strong's Holy is set apart and spirit is breath. Its about receiving the set apart Breath of Yah. Yah Breath has Yah fire, Yah air, and Yah words. In the upper room we read wind [Yah air] fire [Yah heat in one Breath] They started speaking Yah words. We have already have a spirit. Our spirit was separated from Yah at the Tree of good and evil. The Word tells us Yah is Spirit that the Father. Is there a 2nd holy spirit father. Israel was to be a set apart nation. But the people failed. Yahushua changed that at His death. As the scripture put it all who receive the Breath of Yah are sons of Yah. As we have the grafting into Israel all the true believers in Romans 11. The angles cry Set Apart, Set Apart, Set Apart. It the Father, Son, and Israel. As Yahushua prayed that we would be one with the Father as he is one in the Father. I see this pagan holy spirit of the Greeks keeping people in pagan traditions. Let Yah Breath fill your spirit and put Yah words [Yahushua Torah] in your heart.
David had the Holy Spirit. That’s he prayed to God to not take it from him.
David had the Holy Spirit. That’s he prayed to God to not take HIM* from him
If King David had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him he wouldn’t of needed the prophet Nathan to come to him to tell him about the sin the Holy Spirit with a convicted him, After the prophet revealed his sin to him then he repented, The Holy Spirit with with him not in dwelling in him
@@carolwilliams383 it left him.
@@1920s really??? So when we sin the Holy Spirit that dwells within us undwells us
@@1920s Also the Holy Spirit is not a IT ! the Holy Spirit is a person the third person of the Trinity!!!
How to make a calvernist nervous? Ask them how old testament saints were saved. The faulty idea of regeneration precedes faith clouds the thinking on this .
Unconditional election is true in both Old and New Testaments. However, the Spirit is given in the New Testament for our assurance (2 Cor 1:21-22, 1 Thess 1:4-5, Gal 3:14). New Testament saints have personal assurance which was not given in the Old Testament.
No they didn’t
The holy spirit did not come into the world until after Jesus had departed.
Jn.7:39; Jn.16:7; Acts 1:3-8.
I wonder how much money that guy got from patronizing God by selling his book. Maybe he got another car or house out of the deal.
Here you see Covenant theologians struggle with Dispensational realities!
As soon as he mentioned the man-made "covenant of grace", I knew exactly the kind of non-answers we would be getting. If covenantalists would eschew themselves of these invented, nonbiblical concepts like the "covenant of grace" and "covenant of works", the answer as to whether the Old Testament saints had the indwelling of the Holy Spirit would be immediately clear.
No they did not. If they did then they would be regenerated thus not needing Yeshua. These guys are biblically illiterate. They had to,repent just like we do. The only difference, they all went to the grave until the last day. (Minus the OT martyers).
@Deb Harris yes. Only the prophets or anyone who died a martyers death. They gained a better resurrection than the others. Hebrews clearly states this. This is who rose at the cross right after Yeshua. The firstfruits of the dead.
@Deb Harris And all NT saints who die in christ rise immediately to meet him in the air as we are regenerated by the indwelling spirit of Yhwh and Yeshua.
Short answer is NO. Jesus death and resurrection enabled the Holy Spirit to dwell inside people. That never happened in the OT!
Possess?