Hi, YES, laser cutters are a gread add on to 3D Printing. I design model rockets {In South Africa} and I 3D Print the nosecones, and laser cut the fins, bulkheads and centering rings. And how do I design my laser cut parts you may ask? Tinkercad! Just ensure your part is the thickness of the material you are going to cut it out of, expost to a SVG file, and Bob's your uincle. I have even converted those gift card planes and dinosaurs to laser cut format, and it worked. Just upscale to the thickness of the material. Good old 3mm MDF works a treat. So uniform scale to get the thickness to 3mm and you are set. DO NOT ALLOW ANY MARGIN LIKE YOU WOULD FOR 3D PRINTING. NO OOZE!
Laser cutters are amazing and so useful when you know how to design for them, but for laser "cutters" like the one on my SnapMaker 2.0, then yes, a 1.6 watt diode laser is totally a gimmick. That said, I was able to engrave aluminum with it, so I'm not sure why you were having issues doing so with a 30 watt CO2 laser. I would recommend first coating the surface of the metal with something like paint or masking tape before trying to etch it, and better still if the surface is rough or has a patina. It just needs something that can absorb the radiation instead of reflecting it. YMMV.
Great video. I started as a laser engraver and got into 3D printing to make parts for my lasers. They go together very well. The one thing I wanted to add is if you vector engrave around your rasters, it adds a crisper edge and takes your final project to the next level.
Shop or basement? Lol!! My Beamo, sits in my apartment bedroom. I vent her out my window. I really do use her a lot. I say "her" because you have to name Flux lasers.
For what I do it's absolutely worth it! I've been using a desk top CNC for drilling hole patterns in clear acrylic. This laser would cut my production time in half and make cleaner holes. I'm very interested in this, thank you for a great breakdown of the machine and it's uses.
I ran into the same wall with a mini CNC. It still mostly sits. If I want to cut a slot in something I use it in manual mode. I haven’t yet been inspired enough to delve into the whole ecosystem. 3D printing was much more engaging for me.
There's lots of folks on RUclips that have laser cutters, 3d printers, CNC routers and others. Personally I see it as a "right tool for the job" thing. If you have all these things (and yes, not everyone does) they complement each other really well. I feel like one day I'll get around to all of them and be able to make anything! That's my goal anyway! :)
I pondered getting a laser cutter in the past, but couldn't find an answer to the "but what for"-question either. You gave me great insight into what it's useful for, and that it's not useful enough for me to justify the expense, at least as of now.
This is why I rather like Creality's laser expansion modules for the Ender series. Sure, there's an upper limit with power (10W max with the Falcon) since we are dealing with diode-only, but I love being able to swap my E3 S1 Plus extruder for a compact laser module for random one-off customizations or instances where a wood piece would be preferred to plastic. It's a great middle ground or starting point for someone who only occasionally wants to cut or engrave basic materials. If you find you wanna engrave all of the things, then you can upgrade to a dedicated machine like this one. The price of admission for a dedicated laser cutter is still a little too high for the typical curious FDM user...even Creality still wants over $1k for a 22W dedicated cutter and that isn't the least bit enclosed. (My Ender is already enclosed/filtered/vented for printing ABS.)
I’ve seen some impressive HO scale buildings cut at home on the scarier machines. While I’m still learning 3D printing, I’d be interested in your take on the more powerful lasers once you’re in a separate shop.
I've got one of these flux beamo lasers. It's been an absolute nightmare from the beginning. I've had two faulty tubes. And even when you get a good tube it's not really 30 watts it's more like 22 watts. The cut quality on things like wood and acrylic is awful. That said, it can engrave okay. My wife came up with the best projects. Which was engraving pretty art or funny sayings on things like thrift store glass plates and clay pots.
Hi Jonathon - this video is a perfect representation of what I said in my comment on the Bambu offer. Great content, honest coverage, and an entertaining watch. Engraving really is the best current use for these desktop units. Also, a potential revenue producer due to the infinite number of sellable things that you can engrave. - Tim
I don't use my CO2 laser that often, it's really amazing for fast cut/drilling templates for drill guides and stencils. Also cutting and engraving clear acrylic is one of the best uses for a CO2 laser. I am lucky enough to have a deeper laser that can use a rotary axis, that's a game changer being able to do tumblers and glasses.
What timing. I'm currently looking to add a laser cutter to my collection of tools. I'm still exploring different uses like you've identified. The one I'm currently considering is xTool P2, a 55w CO2 laser. Hopefully it lives up to the hype.
I'm literally debating buying one just now (2nd hand of course) so this video was very well timed. I think the size is the biggest limiting factor with this machine. As you appeared to show, it won't even fit a full size sheet of A4 paper on the open area of the bed.
If you do a follow up to this video it would be great if you talk about the software as no one ever really mentions it. Which is an annoyance as you can't control it through Lightburn from what I've read so we can't use videos on that as a basis.
I like how you've toned things back in this video 😊 sorry to hear of the chaos over there but glad you're safe. I would suggest to retitle the video something like: '3d printing workflow: should you get a laser cutter?', or 'are laser cutters any good? How I incorporated one into my 3d printing workflow'. Take care!
I got a cricut for a specific task, then progressed to a diode laser to speed that process up, then got a 3d printer to make parts cheaply for the lasers then got hooked on the engraving and got a Co2 to handle the transparent/clear stuff, then got a CNC machine for a different specific task. Who knows where that is going to lead cos I have already ordered a larger CNC machine. The cricut rarely comes out now but I am constantly going from Laser, 3D printer to CNC for different things, they all compliment each other in different ways, so far I haven't really found a way they compliment the Sublimation I do, but that is just a matter of time I guess.
No pun intended?? You're a dad and you have no excuses. Intend your puns, coward! 😜 One massive strength of your new laser cutter that I think you underplayed here is accuracy, which opens up some great options for more precise tools, jigs, and gauges versus their FDM equivalents. I glanced through the list from your '28(ish) 3D Printed Tools' video and spotted some immediate candidates: - Speed Square - Screw/bolt/nut/washer measurers (also coin sorters, while we're at it) - Fillet Gauge - Corner templates - Drill Hole Guide - Glue Spreader (not so much for accuracy as for material selection to avoid bonding to whatever glue you're using) Sure, FDM printing *can* be super accurate, buuuut you can spend forever mucking around with a bunch of adjustments, calibrations, tweaks, flow calculators, slicer settings, and (let's be honest) guesswork - only to do it all again every time you load a new filament - or you can just laser out a perfect part on the first try and then get on with the *actual* project you were making the thing for in the first place :)
Our maker space has a pretty large laser (roughly 70cm by 50cm) and one thing it does enable is making large scale projects FAST. Printing a box to store something in will take hours, which means it's often not really worth it. Laser cutting a box takes roughly 10min from idea to useable product. EDIT: one downside of the speed is that if you messed something up, like the focus point (or z-offset for the printer), you can easily waste a lot of money worth of material whereas with a print, you're often just wasting grams of filament on the first layer.
I use CO2 laser for engraving customer logos on my product (handmade pens), that opens for me corporate market and bulk orders (from 10 to 50 fairly expensive pens). Also for engraving national patriotic symbols that also opens government contracts and is very popular right now (I'm in Ukraine...). I want to add that basic engraving often looks very cheap, but if you use some sort of color filling or inlay it makes a really big difference in the perceived quality and the price of a product
An anagram on her wallet? That gave me a good laugh! Clearly and honest review of laser cutters and engravers as a whole. I can see myself doing that but personalizing things has its obvious...and not so obvious...pitfalls. Thanks for the video. Good to see you hitting a stride with this one. (And I hope you get a bigger boat soon!)
You should still be careful of your vision with this unit since the lid looks clear and without any protection of beam deflection. Also, when running and you open the lid, does it stop the job? Another safety concern with little ones hanging out around it.
Had the same experience with the Cricut, stuffed in a corner of the garage rarely to be used. It really has some use cases, like cutting plexiglass for some projects but I find it limiting especially for the price. Nothing I can't do with a jigsaw.
Hi, The Next Layer; thank you for your great video. I test, review and teach people about Laser Cutting and Engraving in my YT channel, and I love lasers. I also come from 3D engraving like you. Additive Manufacturing is great and getting more and more employed in the industrial sector not only for the fast prototyping ability but also for rapid tooling and manufacturing, especially SLS and SLM technologies. Laser Cutting, on the other hand, is a subtractive manufacturing process that allows you to work sheets of material and join them into making pretty much all we see around us. In shipbuilding, we laser or plasma cut metal sheets and make floating beasts able to transport merch worldwide and Passengers to unique places. More than 3D printing, Lasers allow you to get into manufacturing. Plus, I remember the framing structure of my first 3D printer (I think it was a geetech ..) about 8 years ago was made of laser-cut acrylic sheets. In my experience, these desktop laser cutters/engravers, although limited in power, can do stuff and are much faster than 3D printing plus, of course, they can engrave or mark existing products to add a touch of personalization. I love producing functional products, although most people ask for personalization. A 3D printer, a Laser Cutter/Engraver and a small CNC router are the perfect companions for every hobbyist and small business workshop, and if you want to complete, add a Vinyl cutter, and you are all set. Ciao
Thanks for this video. I would love to buy a laser cutter but I discovered the hard way how they emit FUMES and I don't have a workshop. Can you record a video on the xTool S1 enclosed laser cutter to find out whether it emits fumes? It has an inline fan and an add-on one but is it enough to make the machine smokeproof? I need a larger laser than the Beamo.
I have a K40 that I have upgraded to within an inch of its life, but its too small for some of the projects I want to do and so is this one, Im thinking of attaching a high power diode laser to my MPCNC which is enclosed but I shall have to fit some of the filtered plexiglass type stuff to it
Hello! I was thinking about moving my Beamo to my work that is where I spend more hours working. Now it is at home in a room with a window and at work there is not windows and that is my concern… I was thinking about buying the Beam air but now after watching your video I’m not sure! Do the filter eliminate all fumes?? Do you feel like smells a lot! I have a store and workshop place and I’m worry about…1 I have some health problems in a lung. 2 that the smell it’s too stooge so the store is going to smell bad 3 of course that this doesn’t eliminates all fumes at 100% (sorry but I don’t speak English very well) I will really appreciate your help 😊
@@racso24 no, it's perfect. Like I said, timeless, in 10 years people will watch this video and not be able to put a date on it. Besides the fact that you're not talking about holographic mind printers
Stunning lack of imagination. Having access to a laser cutter is just about as essential as having the 3D printer. I use it all the time for a myriad of templates, jigs, and various constructions. Somes examples of things that demand laser cutting: gaskets, shims, washers. I never engrave.
Imagine giving someone a laser cutter to review thats doesnt have a clue but because they no about 3D Printing. Lasers have been out for decades and been mainstream for last 5 years in the hobby market. This model is unfortunately crap, its closed source locked hardware means you are at the mercy of the company with regards to actually being able to use it. Much better options out there since 2022 on the co2 front for a similar price. And just because you can drive a fiesta doent automatically mean you can drive a F1 car. These could go hand in hand and compliment each other but they are 2 machines entirely different and each has their own use cases, only thing my 3d Printer and laser has in common is its easy to print modifications. Creality added a laser to their lineup so you could utilise the frame, becuase they are all one of the same except anyone knows bed throwers like 3018 cnc are not great for lasers
THANK YOU for watching, liking, subscriblahblahblahing. I'd love to know in the comments below... do you think lasers are useful, or just a gimmick?
Hi, YES, laser cutters are a gread add on to 3D Printing. I design model rockets {In South Africa} and I 3D Print the nosecones, and laser cut the fins, bulkheads and centering rings. And how do I design my laser cut parts you may ask? Tinkercad! Just ensure your part is the thickness of the material you are going to cut it out of, expost to a SVG file, and Bob's your uincle.
I have even converted those gift card planes and dinosaurs to laser cut format, and it worked. Just upscale to the thickness of the material. Good old 3mm MDF works a treat. So uniform scale to get the thickness to 3mm and you are set. DO NOT ALLOW ANY MARGIN LIKE YOU WOULD FOR 3D PRINTING. NO OOZE!
The K40 is around $500 and it's upgradeable
Laser cutters are amazing and so useful when you know how to design for them, but for laser "cutters" like the one on my SnapMaker 2.0, then yes, a 1.6 watt diode laser is totally a gimmick. That said, I was able to engrave aluminum with it, so I'm not sure why you were having issues doing so with a 30 watt CO2 laser. I would recommend first coating the surface of the metal with something like paint or masking tape before trying to etch it, and better still if the surface is rough or has a patina. It just needs something that can absorb the radiation instead of reflecting it. YMMV.
I got in on the kickstarter for Elegoo's laser, what I'll be making with it though I have no idea
@@MrGerhardGrobler: Interesting post, but just curious, do you ever use "spell check"?
Great video. I started as a laser engraver and got into 3D printing to make parts for my lasers. They go together very well. The one thing I wanted to add is if you vector engrave around your rasters, it adds a crisper edge and takes your final project to the next level.
Shop or basement? Lol!! My Beamo, sits in my apartment bedroom. I vent her out my window. I really do use her a lot. I say "her" because you have to name Flux lasers.
For what I do it's absolutely worth it! I've been using a desk top CNC for drilling hole patterns in clear acrylic. This laser would cut my production time in half and make cleaner holes. I'm very interested in this, thank you for a great breakdown of the machine and it's uses.
I ran into the same wall with a mini CNC. It still mostly sits. If I want to cut a slot in something I use it in manual mode. I haven’t yet been inspired enough to delve into the whole ecosystem. 3D printing was much more engaging for me.
There's lots of folks on RUclips that have laser cutters, 3d printers, CNC routers and others. Personally I see it as a "right tool for the job" thing. If you have all these things (and yes, not everyone does) they complement each other really well. I feel like one day I'll get around to all of them and be able to make anything! That's my goal anyway! :)
I pondered getting a laser cutter in the past, but couldn't find an answer to the "but what for"-question either. You gave me great insight into what it's useful for, and that it's not useful enough for me to justify the expense, at least as of now.
You can always use Metal marking spray to engrave on a whole range of metals with a nice black finish.
Really?! Even with a CO2? I’m gonna order some now.
Can you Build the tiny cnc from Ivan marainda and Test the design
This is why I rather like Creality's laser expansion modules for the Ender series. Sure, there's an upper limit with power (10W max with the Falcon) since we are dealing with diode-only, but I love being able to swap my E3 S1 Plus extruder for a compact laser module for random one-off customizations or instances where a wood piece would be preferred to plastic. It's a great middle ground or starting point for someone who only occasionally wants to cut or engrave basic materials. If you find you wanna engrave all of the things, then you can upgrade to a dedicated machine like this one. The price of admission for a dedicated laser cutter is still a little too high for the typical curious FDM user...even Creality still wants over $1k for a 22W dedicated cutter and that isn't the least bit enclosed. (My Ender is already enclosed/filtered/vented for printing ABS.)
love the thumbnail
Hehe thanks let’s see how it converts!!!
I’ve seen some impressive HO scale buildings cut at home on the scarier machines. While I’m still learning 3D printing, I’d be interested in your take on the more powerful lasers once you’re in a separate shop.
I've got one of these flux beamo lasers. It's been an absolute nightmare from the beginning. I've had two faulty tubes. And even when you get a good tube it's not really 30 watts it's more like 22 watts. The cut quality on things like wood and acrylic is awful. That said, it can engrave okay. My wife came up with the best projects. Which was engraving pretty art or funny sayings on things like thrift store glass plates and clay pots.
Hi Jonathon - this video is a perfect representation of what I said in my comment on the Bambu offer. Great content, honest coverage, and an entertaining watch. Engraving really is the best current use for these desktop units. Also, a potential revenue producer due to the infinite number of sellable things that you can engrave. - Tim
Glad you enjoyed and thanks!!
I don't use my CO2 laser that often, it's really amazing for fast cut/drilling templates for drill guides and stencils. Also cutting and engraving clear acrylic is one of the best uses for a CO2 laser.
I am lucky enough to have a deeper laser that can use a rotary axis, that's a game changer being able to do tumblers and glasses.
What timing. I'm currently looking to add a laser cutter to my collection of tools. I'm still exploring different uses like you've identified. The one I'm currently considering is xTool P2, a 55w CO2 laser. Hopefully it lives up to the hype.
I'm literally debating buying one just now (2nd hand of course) so this video was very well timed.
I think the size is the biggest limiting factor with this machine. As you appeared to show, it won't even fit a full size sheet of A4 paper on the open area of the bed.
If you do a follow up to this video it would be great if you talk about the software as no one ever really mentions it. Which is an annoyance as you can't control it through Lightburn from what I've read so we can't use videos on that as a basis.
I like how you've toned things back in this video 😊 sorry to hear of the chaos over there but glad you're safe.
I would suggest to retitle the video something like: '3d printing workflow: should you get a laser cutter?', or 'are laser cutters any good? How I incorporated one into my 3d printing workflow'.
Take care!
Thanks for the tips! I'm testing a bunch of titles ;)
I got a cricut for a specific task, then progressed to a diode laser to speed that process up, then got a 3d printer to make parts cheaply for the lasers then got hooked on the engraving and got a Co2 to handle the transparent/clear stuff, then got a CNC machine for a different specific task.
Who knows where that is going to lead cos I have already ordered a larger CNC machine.
The cricut rarely comes out now but I am constantly going from Laser, 3D printer to CNC for different things, they all compliment each other in different ways, so far I haven't really found a way they compliment the Sublimation I do, but that is just a matter of time I guess.
Get a. Cnc plasma cutter
@Pedro Valle sounds like a plan, was wondering what could be next.
@@chrisgallaher3899 I can't wait to get a cnc plasma cutter. And then a water jet cnc cutter . I like the wazer.
That's kinda my plan, though I started with 3D printers
Hi hello from France 🙋🏻♂️🇫🇷 !! Have a really good day 😊
Hello from Italy (this week anyways). Have a great day, too!
@@thenextlayer thanks !
No pun intended?? You're a dad and you have no excuses. Intend your puns, coward! 😜
One massive strength of your new laser cutter that I think you underplayed here is accuracy, which opens up some great options for more precise tools, jigs, and gauges versus their FDM equivalents. I glanced through the list from your '28(ish) 3D Printed Tools' video and spotted some immediate candidates:
- Speed Square
- Screw/bolt/nut/washer measurers (also coin sorters, while we're at it)
- Fillet Gauge
- Corner templates
- Drill Hole Guide
- Glue Spreader (not so much for accuracy as for material selection to avoid bonding to whatever glue you're using)
Sure, FDM printing *can* be super accurate, buuuut you can spend forever mucking around with a bunch of adjustments, calibrations, tweaks, flow calculators, slicer settings, and (let's be honest) guesswork - only to do it all again every time you load a new filament - or you can just laser out a perfect part on the first try and then get on with the *actual* project you were making the thing for in the first place :)
Our maker space has a pretty large laser (roughly 70cm by 50cm) and one thing it does enable is making large scale projects FAST. Printing a box to store something in will take hours, which means it's often not really worth it. Laser cutting a box takes roughly 10min from idea to useable product.
EDIT: one downside of the speed is that if you messed something up, like the focus point (or z-offset for the printer), you can easily waste a lot of money worth of material whereas with a print, you're often just wasting grams of filament on the first layer.
I just got my first laser cutter and this video was very good. Thanks
I use CO2 laser for engraving customer logos on my product (handmade pens), that opens for me corporate market and bulk orders (from 10 to 50 fairly expensive pens). Also for engraving national patriotic symbols that also opens government contracts and is very popular right now (I'm in Ukraine...). I want to add that basic engraving often looks very cheap, but if you use some sort of color filling or inlay it makes a really big difference in the perceived quality and the price of a product
Слава Україні
An anagram on her wallet? That gave me a good laugh! Clearly and honest review of laser cutters and engravers as a whole. I can see myself doing that but personalizing things has its obvious...and not so obvious...pitfalls. Thanks for the video. Good to see you hitting a stride with this one. (And I hope you get a bigger boat soon!)
I didn't get it.
Glad to hear you speak out about that dictatorship issue.
You should still be careful of your vision with this unit since the lid looks clear and without any protection of beam deflection. Also, when running and you open the lid, does it stop the job? Another safety concern with little ones hanging out around it.
Yea of course, it does stop when opened :)
Oh man, that thumbnail 😂
I'd go absolutely hog wild making tokens, markers and tools for tabletop gaming.
Had the same experience with the Cricut, stuffed in a corner of the garage rarely to be used. It really has some use cases, like cutting plexiglass for some projects but I find it limiting especially for the price. Nothing I can't do with a jigsaw.
I use it for vinyl only at this point and how often do I need vinyl?
@@thenextlayer True, at this point, might as well making a one-off order to some specialized service.
I love my Beamo, but I'm realizing I need a bigger bed and maybe more power.
Hi, The Next Layer; thank you for your great video. I test, review and teach people about Laser Cutting and Engraving in my YT channel, and I love lasers.
I also come from 3D engraving like you. Additive Manufacturing is great and getting more and more employed in the industrial sector not only for the fast prototyping ability but also for rapid tooling and manufacturing, especially SLS and SLM technologies.
Laser Cutting, on the other hand, is a subtractive manufacturing process that allows you to work sheets of material and join them into making pretty much all we see around us.
In shipbuilding, we laser or plasma cut metal sheets and make floating beasts able to transport merch worldwide and Passengers to unique places.
More than 3D printing, Lasers allow you to get into manufacturing. Plus, I remember the framing structure of my first 3D printer (I think it was a geetech ..) about 8 years ago was made of laser-cut acrylic sheets.
In my experience, these desktop laser cutters/engravers, although limited in power, can do stuff and are much faster than 3D printing plus, of course, they can engrave or mark existing products to add a touch of personalization.
I love producing functional products, although most people ask for personalization.
A 3D printer, a Laser Cutter/Engraver and a small CNC router are the perfect companions for every hobbyist and small business workshop, and if you want to complete, add a Vinyl cutter, and you are all set.
Ciao
Yes, I want to add a better laser cutter/engraver to my maker space as well as a fiber laser engraver for metals.
Thanks for this video. I would love to buy a laser cutter but I discovered the hard way how they emit FUMES and I don't have a workshop. Can you record a video on the xTool S1 enclosed laser cutter to find out whether it emits fumes? It has an inline fan and an add-on one but is it enough to make the machine smokeproof? I need a larger laser than the Beamo.
I have a K40 that I have upgraded to within an inch of its life, but its too small for some of the projects I want to do and so is this one, Im thinking of attaching a high power diode laser to my MPCNC which is enclosed but I shall have to fit some of the filtered plexiglass type stuff to it
Hello! I was thinking about moving my Beamo to my work that is where I spend more hours working. Now it is at home in a room with a window and at work there is not windows and that is my concern…
I was thinking about buying the Beam air but now after watching your video I’m not sure! Do the filter eliminate all fumes?? Do you feel like smells a lot! I have a store and workshop place and I’m worry about…1 I have some health problems in a lung. 2 that the smell it’s too stooge so the store is going to smell bad 3 of course that this doesn’t eliminates all fumes at 100% (sorry but I don’t speak English very well) I will really appreciate your help 😊
Look at this guy. Looking all timeless no beanie and stuff
LOL Yeah, I basically gave up on trying to hide the fact that my hair looks like a rats nest during "the awkward phase" ;)
my hair is in the awkward phase too
@@racso24 no, it's perfect. Like I said, timeless, in 10 years people will watch this video and not be able to put a date on it. Besides the fact that you're not talking about holographic mind printers
Ther are some $500.00 laser cutters that are incased like Omtech, Monport ETC....
Thin 2D materials, you could do something like paper mechatronics
2:29 - What on earth does "loving us guys" have to do with your decision being 100% motivated by your personal needs and convenience though?
Wait you changed the thumbnail and the name of the video? lol
Stunning lack of imagination. Having access to a laser cutter is just about as essential as having the 3D printer. I use it all the time for a myriad of templates, jigs, and various constructions. Somes examples of things that demand laser cutting: gaskets, shims, washers. I never engrave.
👍🏻
15:20
Just going to gloss over that
I mean it's still not 100% crisis averted
15:20 "and, uh, our entire country almost flipped into a dictatorship" lmao, guess we'll see you in Kaplan, then ;)
The switching back and forth from the front camera to the side one for some weird comment is distracting and not helpful. It almost made me throw up.
too expensive ...
Imagine giving someone a laser cutter to review thats doesnt have a clue but because they no about 3D Printing. Lasers have been out for decades and been mainstream for last 5 years in the hobby market. This model is unfortunately crap, its closed source locked hardware means you are at the mercy of the company with regards to actually being able to use it. Much better options out there since 2022 on the co2 front for a similar price. And just because you can drive a fiesta doent automatically mean you can drive a F1 car. These could go hand in hand and compliment each other but they are 2 machines entirely different and each has their own use cases, only thing my 3d Printer and laser has in common is its easy to print modifications. Creality added a laser to their lineup so you could utilise the frame, becuase they are all one of the same except anyone knows bed throwers like 3018 cnc are not great for lasers