BR Compression Is STILL War Thunder's Biggest Problem
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- While there are other big issues, people seem to think that BR compression is STILL the biggest problem with War Thunder - and I agree.
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Video Title: BR Compression Is STILL War Thunder's Biggest Problem
#warthunder #warthundergameplay #donttakeawaymycontentcreatorpartnershipplease
From Gaijin' perspective it makes absolutely sense to keep high tier imbalanced. It guarantees revenue by players just wanting this or that op vehicle at ANY cost just to have the chance to dominate other players. It's a proven free to play game business model
true. I bought t72, 2S38, ka-50, su-25k. Exactly what the snail wants us to do. At least i got them during the sale
So that's why I said it's a monetization problem
@@biziluxgames8924 ah hell nah not the 2S38 I hate that thing when I’m in my M1💀
@@biziluxgames8924 so you are the problem lol
@@Sheir01 Or blame game model that greatly favors premium vehicles for farming both rp and sl to justify extracting 60+ euros off your account. Bonus points if premium in question have few interesting properties to bully others with.
The number one issue is that the devs don't play their own game
Got banned on the forum for a week for saying that.
Reason: Do Not: 1.1.1. Insult any forum members, Gaijin employee or forum staff
xD
I'm sure they are not allowed to.
For some reason, I suppose..
And if they do play air rb on stream, they are in mig 29 or f16
They do actually but im sure you can guess what nation they usually play
@@bananomet4052 lol they are discord mods too
My top 3:
1. Unnecessarily long grind required. Even if you cut the RP requirements in half it'd take a significant amount of time to get through a tree.
2. Roughly 9.0-10.3 is almost unplayable right now for ground RB because of premium players. If you get someone like Sweden on your team the CV90105 players are a gauranteed one-and-done.
3. Top tier air RB is still way too compressed. For instance, that new event plane they just added at 11.0 may as well be a WW2 bomber playing with F-16's and Mig29's.
Also 5.0-6.0ish, the JU-288 spam is so annoying i stopped playing it. I don’t wanna be in my super prop P-51H trying to dogfight and spend 20-30 minutes hunting and chasing 288’s
Imagine how nice the game would be with br compression fixed
long ass queue times but good to play
@@NineSeptims
The funny thing is that it wouldn't even take that long to be fair.
You get a top tier match in like 5 seconds.
Now, compare it to low tier like reserves, it takes almost a minute or two.
Top tier is one of the tier that need decompression most.
It should be really great to play top tier if the queue times are seconds, I'm about level IV, give or take one level, in all tech trees of the game, and I usually have to wait 1-2 minutes for air, 2-3 min for tanks, 4-5 minutes for Blue Water Naval and up to 15 min to Coastal Naval. Of course sometimes I get lucky and get a match in seconds, but usually it is almost a given that it would take at least one minute.
I believe volumetric shells to be the single worst update to warthunder, it's engine was and is still not capable of such simulation.
Ever shot a tank's weakspot or side and not penetrated, even though you have double the penetration than they have armor? Well it's too bad because you clipped two separate, touching (not overlapping) plates and the shell now has to penetrate double the armor it should!
God forbid you clip a driver's or matching gun port, or an optic, or a 5mm horizontal plate
If gaijin just eliminates the maximum B.R. up-tier it would be perfect. (ie. 9.0-9.7, not 9.0-10.0)
MAke it 0.4
X.0 can only go to x.3
X.3 can only go to x.7
X.7 can only go to (x+1).0
@DatBoi TheGudBIAS that would be great im tired of every match gettin up tiered
As a casual player anything past about BR 6 just becomes too much of a grind to be enjoyable
The grind is not the worst part. I grinded out 2 trees from 1.0 to 9.0 in a month playing maybe 7-10 games a day. That's like 2-3 hours a day. But I played less on week days and more on weekends it's just an average. The worst part about grinding over 6.0 is compression, half your games you are not doing much bc you get slapped, if all games were fair the grind would not be that bad.
@@HalIOfFamer and today in other stories that never happened 😂
@@HalIOfFamer I feel you lol
@@Xc31 you challenged or something?
@@HalIOfFamer Nah, even with fair game it'd barely scrape off the horrific grind with each tier increase RP as high as Himalayan mountain slope. But yeah, it's still better to wait a bit longer for a balanced match
As for as I'm concerned, compression is only truly an issue at the higher tiers, the area Gaijin both sells, and markets with. 8.7 and below for ground is still fairly good to go.
I disagree, 5.3 and 5.7 are completely unplayable because of constant uptiers to 6.3 and 6.7 imo
As a USA and Germany main, it sucks not being able to play tiger 1, jumbo, hellcat etc without facing tiger 2s, jumbo 76, big caliber us and Russian tanks, etc.
Uptiers are everywhere
@@victormartins8654 I wouldn't mind waiting 10mins for a match if I only have to be 0.3 uptiered tbh.
Like currently my wait time is like 2 seconds
Bruh I just got 5.3 and I have been insta killed by later IS tanks in all games so far wtf are you on about.
the compression really starts at 6.3
I think the absolute biggest issue in game is the economy at this point, if it didnt cost you 20k silver to get stomped by vehicles better than yours by a vast margin it would be fine to get back up and keep trying.
Issue being though that even premium players such as myself just wont touch a lot of content because you will go broke and miss out on grinding other tech trees and vehicles by spending silver to crew and spade vehicles that are outrageous in repair costs even without being spaded.
And this issue becomes worse when it punishes players who actually run full line ups and choose to try to win matches by spawning multiple times, you can only grind effectively in this game by 1 death quitting unless you are good and most players just arent so they dont try.
The issue is that a BR system is not adapted to the vehicles we have.
There are major technological qualitative jumps that can't be accounted for with with such a system.
Gaijin needs to re-design the game modes with specific scenarios and that's it.
If only gaijin wasn’t so greedy. And lazy with br decompression.
All WT players would be so happy.
honestly, why not make it a .3 br difference? starting at 2.0 i would say, so low tier is still populated, but at top tier 11.0 vehicles that cant hold up to 12.0 would see 11.3 but not 11.7 or more, and that would also help with some higher tier flareless vehicles facing strike craft with 20-30G all aspects.
There was a br decompression tree for USA and Germany made by a community member. It gained some traction but it died down. I'll look for it and shout it out in the comments, guy put a lot of work into making it fair and balanced. And using it as an example all trees could be fixed
I love how it starts of well in low-mid tier, where sometimes 10mm more armor or more horespower or more pen immediately warrants a BR increase, sometimes even a fairly big one of 0.7 or 1.0. But the higher you go, the worse it gets. Suddenly a vehicle with vastly superior armor/gun/mobility or even everything at once gets a minuscule BR increase compared to it's upgrade over the previous vehicle ... this even gets to a point where a modification, which pretty much turns the vehicle into something completly different and much better, doesn't affect the BR at all
You're ignoring how Op the xp50 is at 4.0
Easiest solution: let players choose if they want to be tiered at their BR alone, or .3/.7/1 BR higher/lower and give them the option to value BR balance over short waiting time…
I totally agree with everything you said i would like to wait 30-60 seconds more in exchange for more balanced and more fun gameplay
Compresion problem could be also solved with more objectives and more AI. We have biger maps but objective is one, which makes people to rush there. In ARB they can add 2 more areas with objectives and more bots. Bots also need to increase inteligency, so they attack players and are not ducks. In ground battles also, they can add some bots, which will defend objectives, or fight. The game needs biger maps with more objectives and bots. Game needs to add some fun factor and also something on which even underdogs can earn some points.
Can confirm that there are several aircraft 8.7-10.0 that I WISH I could play but are just not worth the frustration of going against missiles with no flares. I used to love playing the F2 sabre and even got a talisman for it but now I just feel like it was a waste of money because it gets uptiered every fucking game. The F-4c, the f-105d are both super cool planes but they're 10.0 without flares so why bother? If you play a plane in the 8.7-10.0 range and you don't have flares then anything above you in BR sees you as a free kill because you are one.
Honestly I think that it’s a major problem especially when you realise the F-15 (0 losses) is coming to the game at some point. Also like you said we still have F-16 D, A-10 D, F-14 D, Su-35, Eurofighter Typhoon, etc to come. And stealth fighters will be tricky and probably shouldn’t be added to the game.
Would be nice to not get locked up by radar missiles tbh
Honestly there is a very simple way to decompress BRs that has close to no downsides. Put planes into generations, not ranks. No 3rd gen plane can face 2nd gen or 4th gen and there should still be BRs with a bigger difference between them, like 0.5BR instead of 0.3-0.4BRs. (Not just planes, tanks, helis and navy too)
The F-86 sabre part I totally agree with as I have been griping for months since I got them about getting shot down by supersonic Vietnam era missile armed jets over and over and over with no real way to just dodge due to them being 6-7 km away at first then right on top of you in only 2-3 seconds before you can even begin to go evasive then even if they miss you they zoom away and are gone before you could even bring your guns to bear on them as that's usually all you have. MM at the 8.0-10.0 range is completely and utterly broken.
Hey Tankenstein, what would you think of if planes would get a double number maybe for RB matches? One for air and one for ground combined matches?
During the crafting they fucked me really hard when they increased the Tornado IDS to 11.0 and I suddently faced all the time Mig-29 and F-16 and tons of Phantoms with radar missiles.
I can say one thing bout that aircraft at 11.0, all you need to do is mainly play ground rb with it for now on since it is a striker, just need to use flares and stay on deck. if you really want to use it in air rb, you may have to resort to high speed deck bombing while checking behind you for fox 2s, as fox 1s cant track you if your on deck
I’m gonna be honest with you, just don’t play 11.0 planes in air RB at all. It’s a sad reality, but there’s absolutely zero competitive 11.0 planes because they’re all fighting F16s, Mig29s, etc.
@@calebjones3905 Literally. Im trying to grind the German Mig29 (4 planes stand in the way thank god), and trying to grind a stock Mig21bis is LITERALLY impossible. Even with flares and the base R13m/R3s/R missiles, i stand zero chance. It's honestly ridiculous. I swear the devs have never played their own game and it shows.
I can only talk about tanks since I'm not that experienced with planes yet. But I feel like theres a lot of ground vehicles that are way under-br or way over-br where I think they should be.
You have no idea, lol. It's bad.
laughs in Japanese tanks not penning anything but can get one tapped by literally everything
1. br compresion
2. the grind
Exatly
If the game was decompressed, I could tolerate the grind. But with compression, constant uptiers come, and ass matches happen, and grind slows down
Grind is problem for players which do not understand higher tier wont make them better. I see it allways even in GF or Air RB. 1 dead tanks, which just rush base and die stupidly. Or in air F5C loaded with bombs, F4S flying from A to B in the hope to launch one Aim7 or again bombing the base only. Later they get to the top tier with no skill how to play it and start to blame the economy.
@@milanvnuk 1- that's true, higher tier won't make u more skilled, playtime will
2- rushing spawn is stupid, but taking bombs in air matches is a legit strategy, at least to bomb a base or the ground targets, if u don't have the skill to do it, just don't do it, it's not a problem
3- yes, I blame the economy, everyday of the week. This shit ass economy pays less than Zambia in 2000
Unfortunately grind is the way the game makes money
Saw a mig21s at 8.7💀
Arcade land
@@theoneandonlyartyom it was air rb
I started with warthunder in 2013 but stopped around 2019 completely because I was annoyed with the BR compression, nice to see that nothing got better since then… btw I would Waking much longer, up to 5 minutes to get into a fair match, because how is it better to get into a unfair match, have no fun, waste SL and time playing against unfair opponents when you just could wait a bit more. And look at other games, if you play League of Legends you have to wait so long in comparison, or WoW, people made fun out of queueing for hours.
it’s not always 1v1 like you said about mig21 vs f16 it is definitely not a fair fight but both have all aspect missiles and powerful engines. I really like that turmst is 10.0 now 8.7 is really much more fair to play😊
You’re absolutely right. It’s normally 5+ F16s vs a lone 21 because the 21 player knows how to survive, whereas the rest of his team just flies straight to their death within the first 5 minutes.
At least the mig 21 have all aspect, my j7d doesn't have shit :(
mig21 will still get third partied by an f16 that shot an aim7 that the mig21 cant do anything about but watch since it is immune to all types of countermeasures
Last day of the crafting event:
About 25 games Germany with 10.3 Leopard 2A4 in my line-up.
~20 games of getting stomped by Russia Top Tier.
Literally added a fast reload light in my line-up to farm spawn rushing while spawn protected. At least I could get a positive payout, but teams emptied FAST. At least in 3 games, I was alone within a few minutes.
If Russia wouldn't be for the most part almost blind to helis (because who dares to play CAS vs Russia?!), it would have been even worse.
USSR should play only against USSR and the rest of nations get separate matchmaker.
GRB above 8.7 is just ridiculously in USSR favor for over 2 years now.
@@bananomet4052 It was bearable until the Pantsir was introduced. NATO CAS elements were playable correctly and now half the RU teams are SPAA/IFV with proxy rounds.
right now the top tier sweetspot i found, if you arent playing russia, is 10.7 US: You get access to sams, 2 good mbts (m1a1, ipm1), the yah-64 and the m1128, and you are playing 11.0 at most bc you get pulled down to 10.0 due to the german and russian premiums. Im winning 9/10 matches, EU servers.
Same,Rus at top tier just need to hold W,tank every shot with an absurd armor and kill everything like they didnt had armor and if you die just spawn a Kamov and anihilate the enemy team spamming Vikhrs...
@@M0LOCK I think its safe to say that .. ehm.. Russia suffers.
For tanks the biggest issue is top tier Russia dominates every single match.
The match queue time issue is a total bs, let me explain why (aircraft btw); 1) they increased the maps so they increased how long the games take (extra 3m of just flying no extra RP or SL) so its takes longer before the game finishes, so the cycle of queue > game > queue take longer, so just for this reason they increased the queue time. 2) They increased the number of players in a match, this means that it take longer to get enough players to start a game, so again they increased the queue time.
The easiest fix is to decrease the player count in a game, and decreasing the max BR up tier. No one will have any objections to except idiots at Gaijin.
Btw the old maps were better because the was less time wasted.
They need to change up tiers and down tiers from 1.0 to .7. that would make games more enjoyable. They need to add SBMM, some say there's not Enough for that either but I'd rather wait a lil extra than be stomped 5 min in bc everyone on my team is under lvl 30 and playing with 1 premium. Both of those things would bring new players in but the whales and seal clubbers wouldn't like it.
At one time Gaijin said .7 would be max, never happened...
10.0 air rb is completely dominated by premium aircraft it’s not that I’m unskilled it’s just impossible to dodge all aspect missles with no flares
Ab 10.7 was almost perfect but now it’s scuffed , for example f104j no flares no chaff 4 aim9p now facing 11.3 every game ,that’s mean f4j f4e f4juk f4s mig23 tornados nearly all carrying 4-6 30g radar guided missles , before the br changes it was somwhat bearable , you occasionally got shat on in uptieries facing 11.0 but it never surpassed the amount of down-tiers which I was content with , and calling it downtiers is harsh , the f104j before br chnage fought a5c su25 f8u etc all carrying missles that I can barely outturn , the only thing that kept me alive was being fast now that I’m facing f4’s mig23’s etc , I can’t run, flare, chaff, climb , can’t even bomb so I’ve been forced to stop using the f104 cause how scuffed the br is again…
Flightperformance/Rate Fight Performance of any Phantom II vs any 12.0 Jet 💀
Br compression ofc isn't an issue. Only facing 12.0 battles in my F-104 taf is very fun
My f104 does not deserve 11.0, getting smoked by f16’s.
@@luxky1309 True. F-104 Taf/S should have remain at 10.7
Flying a 104 starfighter at 11.0 with only 9js in non stop 12.0 uptiers is the biggest pain i ever experienced
When a King Tiger is fighting an M-60 that doesn't make much sense to me IMO. I agree like most the battle rating compression should be .7 that's it. I'f I'm top tier 1/10 matches I'm lucky.
I recently had to deal with 5.3 American ground again, as my brother doesn’t have any higher BR lineup, and the Panther vs. Sherman dilemma is insane. The Panther is better in every single respect, except gun handling, which doesn’t matter because the Panther doesn’t need to aim, it just needs to hit. In my opinion, no Panther should be below 5.7. Either that, or the M26 needs to come down to 5.3, as once again, the Panther’s APCBC can pen the Pershing’s UFP almost without thinking, but the reverse is not true.
I wouldn’t say every aspect, Shermans have stabilizer and better turret traverse than most if not all panthers, 5.3 panther has trash traverse IIRC, if you know what u are doing Shermans will have an advantage in getting the first shot off and the 76 is decent around br 5.0 and it can sometimes pen turrent mantlet of most panther if you aim and volumetric doesn’t fuck you over. And you shouldn’t really expect to do well in the Shermans if you are playing them as if they have armour lol maybe with jumbo u can but you still gotta know who’s shooting at u first
Definitively wouldn't mind waiting for a matchup longer if the matchups were more balanced
It could be an option at players menu, like:
[ x ] I want to participate unbalanced tiers
or something like that - as with participating in cross-platform games.
Hot take: I think BR should be decompressed all the way to 15 at minimum. I would be alright if matchmaking took 2-4 minutes, if it meant properly balanced fighting.
Another issue is Heli's NEED to have their cost raised. There is absolutely no reason why someone can 1 kill 1 death (and MAYBE 1 assist) and immediately get into a KA-50.
Yesterday I also ran multiple games into a squad that was playing the UK AH-64 able to first spawn in the heli, and use those swirly boi missiles to wreck our whole team while we were just leaving spawn. Looked at the dude's player card, and it seems that's all they did, with an INSANE KDR against ground and aircraft using that strategy. Forced me to first spawn ADATS all night out of paranoia.
Also: The T-72TURMS absolutely slaps. They moved it up to 10.0, which is great, but I'd argue it needs to be 10.7. The only thing that holds it back is smooth brain new players who buy it without understanding top tier.
I kinda don't want to play WT anymore after this event.
All the vehicles I had fun in, such as the CL-13 most glaring example got powercreeped by the pay to win premiums like Su-25 and this BR compression basically invalidated more than half of the vehicles I grinded out.
I don't want to play being constantly at a disadvantage and no, nobody will ever get me to play USSR. I feel like more and more my vehicle choices get smaller eventhough Garbajin is adding more vehicles.
I can't enjoy vehicles I like because of BR compression and I don't want to force myself to play vehicles I dislike just because they are currently out of reach of the pay to win undertiered stuff.
So I am playing only like 2 WW2 lineups, but coupled with the bad map design and 3 map cycle it is getting boring real quick.
I would never imagine back in the day we would still be playing AIR RB mode same way it was designed for props in alpha stages of the game nowadays with Mig-29 and nothing else. No other game modes. This is beyond lazy.
My negative review is proudly displayed on Steam since the freebrumz debacle and it will stay there until Garbajin sells War Thunder to a more competent developer.
t. 2015 player with 4k hours
You want an example of BR compression? 5 generations of MiGs are able to be put into the same matchmaker… Think about that for a minute.
Aircraft developed in the 1940s can be matched against aircraft developed in the 70s and 80s 😭
@tankesntein Sincerely, Gaijin should think of BRs not only on the historical perspective, but on generational perspective too.
The F-86 is a 1st gen jet fighter, the early MiG-21s a 2nd Gen and the late variants, like the MiG-21 Bis a 3rd Gen, the same as the F-5C and E and the Su-23, the MiG-29 and the F-16A are the first batch of 4th Gen fighters.
If a fighter is one generation lower than the enemy, it is borderline impossible to take down the later Gen fighter, except if the conditions highly favors the lower generation fighter.
For example, in the Vietnam War, the North Vietnam MiG-15/17s and early models of MiG-21s, despit being of one and in some cases 2 generations lower than the F-4 Phantom, could take them down because the early gided missiles had a very poor accuracy on the hot, humid and cluttered tropical skies of Vietnam, since the early F-4s didn't have a built in cannon, the Vietkong pilots just had had to fly very low -- where the heat generated by the forest would confuse the guiding mechanism of heat seeking missiles and the clutter near the ground confuse the radar of radar guided missiles -- and wait for the F-4s to spend their missiles and then climb up and take down the weaponless F-4s. There are very few cases where fighters jets one or more generation bellow their opponent have succeeded in taking down their more capable targets, and it almost always sums up to having huge situational advantage due to terrain, weather, training, support from ground and air, etc.
The same applies to tanks and at a slower rate to ships. But Gaijin don't think of dividing BRs taking these technical issues in mind.
Another problem I see is in the custom battle system, there should be some sort of indication of the BR range of the players on the arena, because it sucks a lot to see a WWII scenario and get into a battle with a propeller plane just to discover that everyone else are on very on jet planes, specially to tier planes, like the F-16s and MiG-29s, or going in with a late WWII Korean War Tank to face tanks M1 Abrams or better tanks.
Another issue are some inconsistencies in the early game tech threes, for instance there are some Torpedo and Dive Bombers on the attack and Naval trees that are completely out of their element on their current BR, for example the SB2C-1c at BR 3.0 and SB2C-4 at BR 3.7 just have no means to be realistic be on a match with Mustangs, Cobras, Hellcats, Thunderbolts, and where there are no ships to sink. They are just sitting ducks, the same can be said about the 4.0+ of the variants of the B-25, they are effective at 3.7 BRs, but above that, they are mostly sitting ducks even if you have maxed out gunners or is playing in the gunner role.
Also Gaijin is worried that higher BR battles would have a huge increase in waiting time, they just need to deploy a smoother tech progression, where players would get intermediate vehicles that may not be as good as the top tier, but aren't that far bellow either, heck we get 4-5 versions of the P-38, P-51, P-47, F6F and F4U, and an astonishing 4 versions of the B-25, yet there's almost no vehicles between the early to mid 50s vehicles and the late 70s or later vehicles. There are simply very few 60s and 70s vehicles and onwards.
Also it is a pity that the Naval tech trees are stuck on mostly pre and early WWII naval vessels. We get God knows how many light and heavy cruisers and torpedo boats of the same classes like the Baltimore class, or Elco 80 variants which I think all the vessels ever produced on these classes are on the game, but there are very few mid to late war vehicles, most premium ships costing dozens of GE.
In the end, even these ships are all vessels that were decommissioned after the war and at most in the early 50s. In terms of temporal evolution, the top tier ships on the ablue water tech tree, the BR 7.0 Alaska and the BR 6.7 Arizona, are vessels that were contemporaries of Tiers 1 and 2 on airplane and tank trees. I would love to play some 50s to 70s ship classes, heck a couple 60s destroyers probably could sink a WWII Aircraft Carrier, and a 70s Missile Destroyer could certainly do so. It could also wreck havock on enemy planes too.
It honestly blows my mind why they just won't increase more tiers and brs. We've been asking from what literally almost 7 years now? If that?
the biggest issue in warthunder is russian bias at top tier. simple
i once defeated a mig29 in a dogfight with the cl13. in ground rb. it was fantastic.
I laugh at the repair costs of early Korean War jets. You can’t even earn enough SL for a repair because you’re always outclassed. So now I barely play anything.
Br compression is a problem. Extremely high repair cost is a problem, us missiles under preforming, and lack of winnings at high tier is also a major problem.
my problem is not having enough lions to buy tanks that i research. I only enjoy playing tanks and have premiums but repair costs are too much and i don't have any silver lions. Also being required to purchase vehicles i have no interest in to buy the next in line.
While compression defo still exists, it is better than at any other time I can remember. Top BR-1 and up will always be unbalanced, that is an inherent limitation of the system. The bigger issue is gaijin constantly releasing vehicles at too low br and then increasing that br to the point of the vehicle becoming nearly useless, then they release the next op premium and the cycle repeats. I cannot blame them for that though, cause people are voting with their wallets to legitimise this practice.
The entire air RB from 8.7 up is absolute dogshit. They NEED to do a complete overhaul
I don't get gajins argument with queue times increasing when they decompress because for me at least the queue times are like 2 seconds max normally u get into a match as soon as u click the battle button so liike even if it goes up by 30 secs its still good time
I just wanna say I play only ground forces with a few aircraft to help support my team, but the drones have ruined top tier giving bad tank players who only play air get 2 free kills with a drone and then the rest of their aircraft. Ik several other issues but I'm just going to name that one. But br compression is definitely a huge issue that is a bigger priority than the drones at top tier
I still believe volumetric is second, a lot of low tier Russian tanks can abuse the turret wiggle and a lot of seal clubbers do this to new people and they end up dropping the game because of it
Bs, Tankenstein. Did you forget that EVERYTHING is calculated perfectly by the "magic Gaijin formula™"? War Thunder can't be decompressed - because it's perfect as it is... comrade. Isn't it? Don't you approve? Yes?! Say it louder. I SAID: LOUDER!
A7k at 11.0 is absolutely hell to spade
Fr its bs
@@joshkilluminadi7158 I wish there was separate BR for jets like the A7k amazing at 11.0 for ground RB “unless u run into a pantsir” but I think it should be 10.0 for air battles. Like many other planes
There should be era locks for vehicles. I'm tired of dealing with tiger 2 at 7.0
Br is one thing, the other thing is that air and ground top tiers are almost unplayable in current version of the game because of game mechanics and map desings
The biggest problem is also one of the easiest problems to solve
"b-but the matchmaking wait times D:"
@@ixxxxxxx Personally i would prefer to have longer waiting times than playing uptiers all the time
@@miksim494 yeh same
I would not mind playing +1 BR, if the maps allowed for moves away from all the armor. It mostly is quite the opposite... :(
I just played a match as a Tiger 2 (P) with a M60 in my team
Those ''preliminary results'' actually match up so close
Gaijins entire Marketing structure is called "Frustration based marketing".
They dont fear having to adjust a bunch of numbers, that can be done in a day or two.
They fear to accidentaly make the game too enjoyable where their sales would go down. People are buying hightier tanks and jets because the grind/stockgrind is painfull af.
Wt has more than enough players to get the match making search span to 0.5 BR diffrence, but that would make the game too enjoyable -> sales would go down. Its the other way around aswell. - Nothing brings more joy than getting to slaughter a full downtier after 20 rounds of full uptiers -> The players think "This game sucks but have a great moment that stops them from quitting"
Prem Vics are not nessesary op or P2W but they will generate another "WTF I got killed by some preimium ass again thats so op, I will get one for my faction to get the edge" moment.
Their entire marketing is so twisted that you face more UPtiers if you pay money since a person that has payed already will less likely quit and will more likely pay even more to not make his previous purchase worthless if he is frustrated enough.
This is the only reason why we have to grind flares, why we have to research fire extinguishers etc.
Fuck all these "The devs dont play their own game" comments. They know its unfair and frustrating and thats why they keep doing it. They failed to establish a communiity that pays 50+$ for skins and have to stick to frustration based marketing to generate income.
True, but correction, change the br matchmaking to 0.4, not 0.5.
Gaigin-" so were "fixing" ghost shells for the 5th time
Give us a loading screen that we can shoot stuff… then there’s less issue w a 2min match load time
i could live with ground forces br problems if the XP and money rewards could go up. but now its just i suffer fighting +1 uptiers, and get shit rewards for it.
The ka50 still needs 11.3 where it sets now at a full down tear there is only like 2-4 spaa at 10.0 and only like 1 or 2 that can meat it’s range
It's nice that some light is being shed on this topic but gaijin is a stubborn money grubbing company so If it doesn't benefit them financially they honestly couldn't give less of a shit.
I will absolutely wait 30-60 seconds for a fair match, I’ll happily go 90, or even 120.
F4C or F105D BR 10.0 - old missiles and no countermeasures.
Mig21 10.0 - 2x R60 or R13 or 4x R3 with flares or gun pod to choose (even premium one)
A-6 Intruder BR 10.0, 4x Aim9L with infinite flares amd tons of loadouts.
It realy looks like predatory methods to force players to buy newest premium.vehicles.
What about Sho't Kal Dalet on 8.7 - they add thermals, but it play 90% small games(10/12x10/12) on full uptier. Slow, no armor, with huge ammorack tank x6 zoom...
They're using BR compression as a frustration monetisation strategy.
Anyone climbing the tree who gets to the 8.3 - 9.0 sabres for example, after finally breaking free from the su11 spam, suddenly all find themselves inundated with PAID all-aspect 30G missiles majority of their games. More unfair deaths means a slower grind, meaning more people likely to cave in and spend money.
BR compression and the game's monetisation go hand in hand, are a MASSIVE problem, and they will never fix it because game balance is second to the cash grab. Remember they opened the bait-and-switch preorder for the su25k at 9.3...then they instantly pushed it to 9.7.
This proves that any aircraft can be put up or down in BR within a day. They can fix compression in seconds, and that it's taken them this many months to push it up to 10.0 speaks volumes of where their priorities are.
Bro wth is wrong with the AIM-9Ls in the beggining 💀💀💀
everything can be summed up with 2 vehicles
a-7d - 10.3
a-7d with aim-9L - 11.0
hstv-l keeps going up without getting anything, not even it's proxy rounds, making it a worse and worse tank every time. oh i should also mention, the aim-9l and r-60m were nerfed soon before the a-7k was added, making them VERY flare hungry
Tbh we are going to see Lopard2 fight t55 pretty soon IRL...
@Tankenstein u forgot "volumetric"
Ngl the top tier is fine because I think a skilled mig21bis pilot can take and win a 1v1 vs 80+% of F16 pilots. It’s with lobsided matches and condensed play areas.
The big maps were my favorite addition to war thunder since the Italians in 1.69 (nice). EC maps provided “useless” planes such as bombers or jet interceptors/ground attackers a chance to excel in what they were made to do. And then Gayjin went ahead and did what they do best, take two things with positives and negatives and manage to combine them by throwing away any positives and keeping all the negatives.
The minute I loaded into an EC map sized battle with all of the objectives and POI in the middle being identical in position to the small maps I quit and uninstalled.
I’m shocked by the poll since all actions taken by the company revolve around profits and forcing BR compression. How those 7,000 people thought differently amazes me.
BR compression is a methodical way to make people spend money in premium vehicles to ^skip^ the problematic parts. And to be honest it is crap mainly for 8.7-9.0 planes since from 9.3 you see supersonics, missiles that you won't dodge kinematically etc. and an uptier to 9.7 just makes them useless (when we compare 2 vehicles).
One of the most annoying things however , that isn't related to balance and you can't even evade it with money and i'm talking specifically for ARB... is spotting. There are 2 options, go the GRB/WW way, no markers... at all or go the arcade way and put markers in everything in any scenario... The way we play now doesn't even have specific rules, it's pure RNG and in many occasions dictates the fight.
Am frustrated. I have, but on a 500 booster hoping that I would go further into the tech tree and get hit by a mig 23ml R23R missile whichmy RWR didn't even gave me a warning of a radar , which at br 11.3 and my f8u is at br 9.7 .
8:25 9.0? Buddy, I was over here struggling at 8.7!!!
8.7 one of the best br's in the game tbh
@@sultan4d169 after the decompression they just did? perhaps. prior to that? it was awful
I came back to the air rb after a long time. I ve stopped playing when F100 was introduced. I grinded it and spaded it on the first day and while I enjoy being raped by overperforming MiG-19s as much as anyone, it was acceptable for the first few days. I quit after I saw that they were not going to do anything about the br unbalance and came back a couple of days ago. I grinded and spaded the F4C now... Ive played many sims but war thunder is by far the worst one... The Phantom here is widely underpowered. It doesnt handle like it should and it doesnt accelerate or reach the speeds it should... To have a nice match on it the stars need to align perfectly. else on 98% of the matches you will be lucky if you get one kill before someone decides you need to die... And if they decide you need to die, you will die... Nothing you can do about it... It is one of these planes that makes you question everything you know about it and about air rb in general... Meanwhile we have MiG21s that can out everything your aircraft... It just seems that the larger the br, the more full of shit, pain and suffering this game becomes... Fuck War Thunder. Fuck Gaijin. Fuck Anton Yudintsev. Fuck all those Russian fucks that call themselves "developers". Fuck their no refund policy and fuck their forum Mods... I cant believe I have spent money on this fucking game and I cant believe others keep paying hundreds of Euros/Dollars a year to this company... Fuck them as well... This is why the game is how it is...
They really could just fix the issue by using making some vehicles x.5 instead of just x.3 and x.7. I just wish that the 7-9 BR was technologically balanced properly, its got the most potential for fun and skill. They should also fix the Italian tech trees. The tech on those planes are by far worse and under gunned but theyre overtiered. The level 1 and 2 jets for Italy was the most painful time in this game to get to the Sag, and g.91 Y (which is better than the YS simply due to the lower BR that avoids more advanced missiles).
Two solutions to this.
BR bracket shrinkage
There is absolutely no reason for the BR min/max to be 1.0 once you get above 7.0. This goes for air and ground alike. I can understand a 4.7 F4U-4 going against a 5.0-5.7 BF109, or a 4.0-4.7 yak of any sort, as the technology difference is primarily in engine power and maybe some maneuverability improvements. Once you get up to >7.0 or so, technology shifts massively as the BR gains changes from a few years during WWI/WWII to nearly decades during korean/vietnam/cold war eras. There’s no reason not to change this, since matchmaking takes less than 5 seconds most days, or maybe 20 seconds tops
Significantly increase the BR max (wtf is 12.3 anyways)
This is probably the biggest change that needs to happen. Gaijin wants you to belive that the shift between an f-86a-5 (12.7mm M3x6, no radar, RWR, countermeasures, missiles, or afterburner) and a f104A (a damn vulcan, plus radar and missiles and unbelievable afterburner performance) is just 1.0, whereas going from a P-51C to a P-51D has a 1.3 BR difference (and this is specifically comparing US planes, i dont want to look at migs anymore than i already have to
A great way to solve this is to simply increase the br range from RSV/1.0 - 12.3 to something more to the tune of RSV/1.0 - 16.0, or maybe 18.0, or whatever best fits. Back in the day of Sabres being top tier, the climb in BR was steady and readable. However, post-7.0-8.0 BR in all trees, the climb in technology parallel to the climb in BR no longer makes any logical sense. You start comparing technology to BR as a way of scaling effectiveness in combat, and we see content creators explaining how absolutely devastating a change of simply 0.3 would be, either crippling an aircraft or making it unbeatable.
For some reason, Gaijin is only just inching forwards with BR numbers while introducing significant technological advances to the tune of DECADES of R&D. With the current system, I can see the MIG-35 being 12.7, and SU-57 13.0, making both somehow match up against Mig-29s and F-14Bs, and just imagine how horrifying the matchmaking complaints would be then.
Since the compression is at its worst around 8.0-10.0, simply stretch these out a little and adjust upwards. Tune what was 8-10 to somewhere like 8-12, tune the previous 10-12 more like 12-14, and make the previous >12 between 14 and 15, with wiggle room for new aircraft beyond our common f16s, mig29s and gripens to fill out the new >15. Then, if we were to get a mig35, or F/A-18, etc, add those further above the current Mig29SMT/F-16C BRs, maybe 1.0 instead of 0.3. Do you really expect us to belive the F-14B and F-16C only differ by 0.3, when the P-47D-22 and P-47D-25 differ by 0.7, Gaijin? (again cross-comparing one country only for the sake of apples-apples)
Feel free to critique, I’m open to alternative numbers and may make P.S. edits for any good points made
11.0 Air is now just 12.0 under a different name
needless to say, being bottom teir every time does not bode well for engaging gameplay
Unfortunately, I feel like compression is a necessary evil at top tier... For now. If you separate the F-16, MiG-29, and F-14 from the rest of the pack, then there's nothing for them to fight against except each other. While some people may say "Great, do that!" think about how it feels at 6.0 right now to only see Ju-288s all day every day, or almost full teams of constant F-5Cs at 10.3/10.7. It's not fun, it's not interesting. Sure, you may get clubbed like a baby seal in something like a MiG-21 or any of the now VAST lineup of Phantoms, but until there's a few more Gen 4 planes out there, there's not enough diversity at top tier to say "Yeah, okay, we can push them away from everyone else's BR."
Now, with A-10s, Su-25s, and the A6-E, they should be closer to 11.0, easily. I'd settle for 10.7, but these are ground attack aircraft with powerful missiles purely to defend themselves from attackers. Those 3 planes, especially with their countermeasure count, would do absolutely fine in GB where they belong, and if you die a lot in AB, ask yourself why you're taking a ground attack plane into a game mode that, at these tiers, is almost purely air-to-air combat
I'm getting to the point I'm going to give up on WT. I'm running 3.3 American and rarely get hit anything below 4.0. If it's not instakill, it does so much damage it might as well be.
a lot of the vehicles I have BR thoughts about just happens to also be paid premiums... like the prem type 16 is 8.7... like why? a slighly less lol pen dart....
Sabers are dead same with planes like F9F-8, lowest BR plane with missiles (AIM9B) but at other hand it faces R60 and other superior missiles... also no afterburner planes vs mach 2 jets.
I gave up on playing planes on the most part, if your plane is not spaded or meta you are basicaly a fish in a barrel.
IFV.s are also way to low BR, BMP1 has been 7.3 for the longest time. Yes we know its becuase it starts with WASD missiles but it deserves to go up, especially the CHINA one that has tandemwarheads at 7.3... If they just added 1 more BR I feel like they would give a few forgoten tanks a ashoot at life again.
1 way of implementing BR restrictions without decompressing is just reusing the point system from Ground Realistic.
>You enter a game
>You start with 150 (subject to change) points
>Lowest BR in the room only needs 0 to spawn without any loadout, each subsequent br needs 25 per .3 br above floor (so 9 gets full 150, to play, 9.3 gets 125 up until 10 which only gets 50)
>Armaments cost points, more advanced, more points
That should at least give a small amount of respite and is my alternative to decompression for gaijin.
You want to suffer from compression in a mig-21? Try the J7D. It''s a mig-21 with 4 rear aspect missiles, granted very good rear aspect missiles, but still outclassed imo by things like Aim-9L and R60MK, and its 11.0. It puts hair on your chest having to fight gen 4 fighters in a gen 2 fighter that isn't even the best in it's own generation.
I’m sorry, did you say ‘fair’ with regards to WT as if that were even remotely a concern for Gaijin? LOL
Okay sure, Gaijin can't allow a feeling of hopelessness or unfairness to drive down engagement and purchases.
Other than that though, Gaijin can and in fact clearly does use unfairness to jin up sales (module unlocks, premium vehicles etc).
Frustration and impatience sells. So does the ego stroking of being on the other end of the equation; stomping sure gratifies that premium you just bought, maybe you need a nice decal/skin to celebrate or another premium even?).
There is no rule or law that games have to be fair. So unlike casinos, Gaijin is free to use the mountain of user data they have to learn the general triggers for purchases and also your particular triggers. I'm sure they use these to manipulate match making, probably the RNG aspects of gameplay (thumb on the scale) and even those Gaijin moments when for some reason you don't hear a massive tank drive up behind you (Bad devs? Maybe. Manipulative gaming company? More likely).
Why would a business leave their core profit maker up to chance when they can do plenty to sweeten their outcome? They don't.
It's only our hopeful naivety that keeps up the illusion that modern games (especially F2P) behave in a fair and reasonable way. Which is why Gaijin will never release comprehensive player or vehicle stats (and I wouldn't trust any they do unless it's under a court order); their manipulation would be apparent.
IMHO anyway. And yes, I still play, but I am very careful not to let a streak of bad matches drive me into dropping GE or even get me down. Frustration is a core part of the game after all.
I don't know how big a problem this really is, but "Player Level" is just an XP accumulator. I can't remember if matchmaking does or doesn't use a player's level, but...
The way it works now is a dumb idea, at least in principle, because Player Level doesn't reflect player *ability* at all. I'm living proof that you don't have to be very good to get to level 100. I know other people that got to level 100 faster than me, while playing even worse, just because they had a higher tolerance for being seal-clubbed.
i did recently play nearly all BRs for GROUND … top tier, 10 and 9 is now amazing to play…
but 7.3 and everything around it? OOF
can we at least have a heavy discount in repair cost when you’re bottom tier?
Someone may have said it already in the comments but one of the biggest problems for top tier aircraft is that there is no separation for ground and Air. A plane that does very well in Ground RB but terrible in Air RB for example is the A6ETRAM. Yes I know in AIR RB you can carry 4 AIM9Ls and maybe get 4 kills or 3 AIM9Ls with a gun pod and you might get more but not very effectively. But In Ground RB you can carry a crap load of guided bombs and get alot more kills. My point is some planes are better in Ground than in Air so they need separate BRs for that reason.
BR’s should be expanded to 15.0 at least in ground. Give Planes separate GRB and ARB ratings. Finally, fix legacy BR’s of vehicles that have been power crept to oblivion with these new BR’s.
Gaijin is losing the point where they should make players want to play everything. If a player likes playing "every" plane/tank etc, they might be buying talismans for their vehicles as well. Imagine buying a talisman for every plane because you liked playing them. Now i know is hard to make everything likable but wouldn't be more profitable if i was to buy a talisman for 10+ planes on a single line alone, rather than for a single F-16?
Also, let's make the repair cost equal the 1% of the buying price of vehicles.
I'd wait an extra 2 minutes on average if BRs increased to a meaningful degree.
I'd say top BR with current vehicles should probably be 15.0+ to accomplish this, stretch out the tech tree to give each vehicle some breathing room to be actually be viable in some way.
I really want to fly some Sabres or Mig 15s but I don't even want to crew them if it means I'm facing trans sonic/supersonic planes with missiles. What's even the point? As it sits, I see very little reason to even dip my toes above rank IV.
Annnnd it will continue to be the biggest problem along with shoddy/fucc'd armor/dmg models until we return to a 20 tier system.
They just decompressed the br in sim. I played a 10.0-10.7 match last night. No more getting wrecked by mig 29's and f16's when I'm in a phantom!
Unless you played WT for 9-10 years then you would not recognize a cheater. A noob would just think it was normal game play. However, for people like me who have played WT for 9-10 years we recognize a cheater instantly. And believe me, there are a lot of them as the cheat creators have gotten around anti-cheat software and anti-cheat has not caught up.