War Thunder's Battle Rating Problem...
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- Опубликовано: 14 окт 2024
- It needed to be said.
Don't go after Gaijin employees, or Gaijin as a company. I am just expressing my grievances with this game I want to see succeed as best I can. There are many people in Gaijin who would both agree and disagree with me, and the individual teams do not control the whole game.
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I know most other wt RUclipsrs got tired of complaining about topics like this, but it's worse now than it's ever been. So I'm really thankful you came out to speak on this time old problem of this game.
So true 💯 and they didn’t just get tired, they got burnt out from complaining about this issue which made a lot of good OG war thunder content creators and players leave
@@perennialE Would say it is fair critique, only with the stuff not designed for later decades you miss the point. In real world A4s have been used into the 90s, the Skyhawks from 1945 untill the 80s, A10s are in use since 1975. Soviet planes showed up 10 years late for their generation. But for the game, there should be BR decompression, fully agree on it
agreed 110%
Strong and brave
Boycott them and it will fix the problem
I often say that planes without countermeasures shouldn't be facing anything stronger than an AIM-9E. It's just not a good mechanic to have an insta-kill button on a gamemode that kicks you back to the lobby once you die.
In my opinion they could implement something like the bracket system in SIM into Air RB. Would separate a lot of these unfair matches. Or they could just decompress the whole damn thing, but we know they won't...
There should be two BRs for jets imo, a "base" BR that just takes stats into account, and an armament BR that takes weaponry into account. They already do something similar for GRB air spawns
The SIM mode br brackets don't really help that much either you still end up with days where 9.0 - 10.0 has A-10s fighting a majority of planes with no countermeasures.
F104J vs F14s is a nightmare
@@kopfjager6833 Yeah, relatable, I had to fly the F104G against F14's, which you meet even more often then in the F104J
dont planes like these have really good speed, anything over mach 1 can pull enough G's to dodge, i.e. mig21 sps k
and if they're 3-4km flying away puts the missile out of range
No flares for a 30g missile? Skill Issue.
Agree😂
I mean it is turning 90 degree and hittiking 100% trottke isn't hard like at all... and if you come from ace combat 7 multiplayer you have it easy as in war thunder missles have limited fuel.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Please God tell me you're being sarcastic.
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Im going to eat your intestines
@@gsilvy4k570 he is, but also f ace combat special missiles mfs will run circles trying to hit u.
hey dont worry though, the A-1 from the battle pass at 6.3 has flares.
@@perennialE Yeah good luck. One has already dropped 2 loads of bombs by the time you got off the runway, and the other 3 snapped their wings the second they spawn.
boy im sure gonna need those at 6.3
good 1 xD
@@Pit_Winder i dont think there is anything with ir seeking at 7.3
@@flameraker6824 woooosh that was the sound of the joke going over your head
This also leads to the problem of "country main" in air RB more than any other game modes, since no one in their right mind would want to subject themselves to the 8.7-10.0 hellhole a second time when they already made it through to their country of choice
They keep it this way so that we get so frustrated, the weaker willed players just decide to spend money. They don't ignore us because they can't fix it, they ignore us because they don't want to fix it. They'd lose too much money.
This is the smartest comment on RUclips I’ve ever seen regarding Wallet Thunder
Capitalism moment
That's the whole point of any "free to play" game. They don't create them out of the goodness of their hearts.
"hey, let's spend millions of dollars and get no return!"
I don't see any sense in "buying" pixels with no guarantee that they'll hang around and you can only play with them online. The most I've given them in 5 years is for a short bit of premium time, saw it wasn't that useful and haven't done it again. Of course, if everyone was like me...they'd go out of business. So I appreciate those who waste thousands of dollars on it.
French Mirage 2000: have places for 8 or 10 missiles
Gaijin: Put 4 missiles on it, and they can't choose which type of missile they want
Not much to say here, you are completely right, that's the feeling most war thunder players have now, the game needs to be fixed, and fast, other than that, awesome content as always Perennial, keep it up and this video was extraordinary, I couldn't have said any better myself about the game's current state.
Wait- you guys made it to jets?
~ a free to play player
@@solomonOG I made it to 5.3 planes and 8.3 tanks without premium, but after that I ended up giving the snail my money so the progress could be easier, there's a point where the whole game becomes so slow that Gaijin forces you to spend money or suffer for the next months just to get a vehicle that is probally not great at it's br... that sucks.
@@Kosmo2 yeah I’m at 5.0 planes and 4.0 tanks but I refuse to spend money
I’m in the f-14 and all I bought in war thunder was like 600 GE, I’m not lying I actually made it to the F-14 with no premium, war thunder needs to learn that in some countries a dólar can be 5 to 30 times more expensive, for example, the premium F5C USA is more than 300 bucks here, it’s impressive how little respect the snail has for us, I only play war thunder to kill my boredom
Also, what’s war thunder motivation? Why don’t they fix it Imediatly, well because the snail has no competitor, war thunder is the only type of game of its kind, so you really think the snail would treat us like that if they had a competitor, no, just like Burger King and Mac Donald’s, or PlayStation and Xbox, your really think they would be what they are today if it wasn’t for the competiton? We players should do something about it or else nothing will change, all they do is to add planes, every upgrade we complain and all they do is to war thunder just gets worst, idk what will get Gajin to change
It's kind of infuriating how easy it is to fix this problem. All gaijin has to do is increase the battle ratings to a maximum of 12.0-13.0. So many of these problems would be solved because there could be more room for balance.
Then it would take far longer for matches in those BRs.
Gaijin have screwed them selves over with poor balance.
@@Protagonistnot real man id rather wait a extra 30 seconds than instantly die in the first 2 minutes of a game.
@@Protagonist I get into a match in 1 to 10s
@@Protagonist shrink the teams raise the BR cap, boom done
Lately I’m grinding the Soviet tech tree and I really want to use the MiG-19, it’s fun and unique but it gets hard countered by the plague of A-10s lobbing aim9Ls
I know that feeling playing the Milan lately. Just about every death I've had since buying it has been to an A-10. Not a single death yet to an SU-25 though. If I can last long enough into the game and there's no more of those two around the Milan can actually be pretty fun.
Yeah A-10s should not be that low in teir as they are a late cold war jet.
There is no dogfighter like the 19 but what I'd give for flares.
what fucking planet are you from Mig-19s make the fucking Phatom irrelevent, immune to bullter damage and can outturn a Phant and get on its tail becaue the mig even RENDERS
A10's are incredibly easy to defeat. The L's are dangerous but the A10 is so incredibly slow and unmaneuverable. Find one out relatively on its own, kick out your airbrake and cut throttle for a sec and sit behind him. He literally can't do shit. Also coming in from high near the start of the battle completely throws them off their game.
I completely agree with you. I've been shot down by a missile in an up-tier at mid rank 4 as a propellor plane. I had no way to defend myself and no way to outmaneuver it.
Thank you for posting this, I'm tired of a large portion the War Thunder community turning a blind eye the awful state of Air RB for Jets. Thats apart from the numerous other issues that Gaijin doesn't seem to care about. They NEED to stretch out BRs.
What does it matter if he makes a video or not, is it going to change anything? war thunder has no competition
@@AZ-dj1ni You’re right sadly, it wouldn’t change anyway
@@perennialE a10+su25+harriers with good misiles+ should go up to 11.3
Yes, you would have to pull the entire BR apart. But on which BR should the planes land? Should it then be balanced so that subsonic planes don't have to face supersonic planes anymore? Or planes with no missiles and flares just face planes with no missiles and flares? It is almost impossible to properly balance "low tier" jets.
Sadly from my experience this problem isn't just in jet's it's in every BR to an extent. It is literally a flaw in the balancing system. If you balance around wins/losses/kills you will get this kind of distribution. An example of where this happens with non jet aircraft are the BR 2.0-2.7 area, you potentially have tanks whose guns literally cannot pen certain tanks other than extremely niche situations. Or tanks like the matilda which suffers in up tiers because it lacks the stats to compete against tanks above it's BR, but it dominates in down tiers due to the overkill stats it provides in them. Their are some examples of this in each tier, which really makes it annoying. Then you get the premiums that just circumvent this by being too powerful in the BR they are in. Honestly I am surprised that the game doesn't have eras for certain tanks or aircraft. This would be a lot more reasonable. A-10 and Su-25 should not see Korean war aircraft, nor the matilda see midwar tanks, etc. This method does have flaws but merging the two systems would hopefully even things out.
At least the mig 21 lazur m isn’t like this, instead it faces f-16 and mig-29
I remember when power creep was not nearly as blatant but the introduction of the XM1 at 9.0 and the Leo 1 L44 broke this. A premium should be good, but always worse in some way compared to its tech tree equivalent battle rating contemporary (i.e., the MiG-21 SPS-K, a premium, would be at battle rating 10.7, whereas the MiG-21MF, a tech tree vehicle, is at 10.3).
Gaijin has foregone this principle in chasing profits. The only way to counter Magic or R60 is to buy your own premium. They completely ruined this balance for the sake of profit, and they know they did - that's why they won't decompress battle ratings because the only way to be good and counter 30G missiles is to have a premium of your own that has countermeasures. Keeping battle ratings compressed ensures that people break out their wallets to buy a premium to counter other premiums. It is a self-feeding vicious cycle.
I agree with all this. It sucks trying to enjoy any 8.7-9.0 jet anymore. I don’t own the a10 or the su-25. But i feel like they are pretty much free kills if i play 10.0 and above in anything that has flares
What about using design generation or time period as a separating factor in the matchmaking algorithm? That way you only have battles with vehicles from the same decade or at the most the same generation?
Age 1: 1930 - 1934
Age 2: 1935 - 1939
Age 3: 1940 - 1944
...
Age 13: 1990 - 1994
Age 14: 1995 - 1999
Age 15: 2000 - 2004
Exactly, and in jets maybe separate them by their gen:
Gen 1: Me262, He162, MiG-9, Hörten, P-80, F2H, Kikka, Vampire, Meteor
Gen 2: F-86, MiG 15, MiG 17, F-100, CL-13
Gen 3: F-4, MiG 19, MiG 21, Kefir, Harrier, F-5, Su-25, Panavia Tornado, Mirage, A-4, A-10
Gen 4: F-14, F-16, MiG-29
(Last gens can be match together)
I would love to have that happen so my Vietnam lineup won't range from BRs 9.0-11.0.
But I wouldn't place my bets on it, this is Gaijin. The company that literally takes what players want and do the opposite.
watching this as an A-10 pitches up for me and launches missiles directly below my plane
Bro this is so true. I truly hate trying to play any plane at this be without flares. Aim9Ls are so broken and my suggestion would be giving the premium A10 4 aim9js so that they don’t complain. But in my opinion war thunder needs some serious top tier be revision, because a j35d shouldn’t be facing all aspects with no flares.
Having been on most sides of the argument, I agree. I’ve played the A-10A (L), Jaguar A, and A-5C, but I’ve also played the F-100D, F-104A/C, MiG-19S, J-4, J-6A, and G.91YS to name a few. Gaijin’s greediness and lack of care for the average player’s quality of life is ruining the near top-tier experience for everyone. It’s especially scummy when these non-meta, tech tree aircraft get egregiously high repair costs, because Gaijin insists “The numbers never lie!”
And even if you *do* have flares… can you guarantee they’ll actually work? Can you guarantee the spotting system will actually work? Can you guarantee the missile will even render in time for you to react? The amount of times I’ve died to AIM-9Ls that completely ignored my flares despite me cutting the afterburner is insane. I get that the A-10 doesn’t have much going for it, beyond the AIM-9L; But no missile should ever be a nearly guaranteed kill against a competent player in an ideal scenario using flares.
I’ve flown the A-10A (L) against top tier more than a few times, and I can still easily get 2-3 kills without even trying, because the AIM-9L is just that ridiculous in rear-aspect shots. And while it won’t always save you… the gun is very easy to aim and it’s only natural for an A-10 to stay inside of someone’s turn before they completely bleed you of energy. I wouldn’t care at all if it was moved up to 10.7, and the premium version went to 10.3. It might actually convince Gaijin to raise the damn BR cap again, it’s long overdue anyway.
And the fact that the a-10 and si-25 ARENT FIGHTERS and that they completely outclass many better aircraft that are fighters
I don't disagree but there are things a player can do to mitigate getting missiled. You also have to accept that sometimes, there was nothing you could've done. Recently spaded the Mirage IIIC and while having no flares sucked balls, it wasn't the worst experience. As for something like the Lansen or Etendard, you need to really worry about positioning. Try to put yourself in the best position possible, where you can be the most effective without being missile bait. When flying something like the MiG 17 or F100, i normally climb to the side and deal with whoever is on the outskirts. The Su-25 definitely should go up in br to either 10.0 or 10.3 but its not the hardest thing to deal with if you know what you're doing. The A10s are significantly more annoying as AIM-9Ls are significantly more effective, but keep in mind they're much easier to min range since off the rails they dont pull very hard. As for 3rd parties while your slow? That sucks. Sometimes that happens, but it also could be your mistake. An A10 about 5 or 6km away while you're dealing with someone else? Be gone before they reach 3km. All this is easier said then done, but even in this environment you can do well in planes with no flares. It just harder then a plane with flares. As for compression? Started 2 years ago with the EEL/ MiG 19s. I doubt it gets fixed anytime soon.
Also map knowledge and the C key does wonders)))
Yeah I think this guys situational awareness is lacking. I’m screaming at him to take a look around to check that there are no enemy planes or missiles nearby.
Any advice for using the new mig-21 I feel like I can’t hit anything with my rm60mk’s but can’t dodge anything even when flying low
Agree 100% jets needs looking into. Really sucks for people trying to grind that 8.3 and upwards bracket and im thankful i got to experience the good times of higher br jets back when the matchmaker wasn't scuffed af, on both USA & Russia as an original pure air rb player. Though after coming back from GRB to grind to top Russia jets, starting with mig15's it was a real eye opener how bad the state of ARB has gone. Given the prevalence of 9.7 premium jets it is absolute cancer trying to bring anything lower which that can see that br out - upteir central rn. Granted you can sometimes work around and dodge these missiles without flares, but its never going to happen if you hadnt had the previous experience in top teir before. As a newcomer you will probably die like 100 times in a row and have the joy for life itself sucked out of you before you can even try to deliberately stay alive long enough against these planes to do something, & even still will only score kills if the enemy messes up really bad. The grind is actually insane with power creep nowadays and its almost a necessity to purchase a premium vehicle to retain your sanity - a real shame.
Though honestly after I got into br's which can see top in GRB, it's given me a bit more perspective on the situation. I always thought people asking for separate br's between GRB/ARB, or a system where loadouts might modify your br - were probably overreaching. Though as WT has turned primarily into a GRB centric game i can see why a lot of these problematic aircraft are placed where they are, as that mode is where gaijin is likely trying balance for rn. With their AAM's aside, if they were to go any higher, the AA systems they would be forced to face on a regular basis would wipe the floor with them - or their ordinance would simply be vastly outclassed by their peers.
So my current opinion on the best solution (probably alongside general decompression) is as follows:
Implement a matchmaker where instead of forcing a hard 1br limit - a central br is chosen and aircraft +/- 1 from this fill the match, though their loadout options have relative br weightings in which the upper limit may not be passed. All players should see the br of the match, and loadouts may be edited to suit within each match freely - naturally the custom loadout editor for all aircraft should be functional before this can be done. Next, create more maps following the EC format but which are optimised for the RB game mode's match length and the matches central br. That way these problem planes which are designed for ground attack will have an appropriate and varied choice of targets with which to perform their role, without being forced into combat with fighters and having to take these superior all aspect missiles to remain effective. Meanwhile, next gen fighters within the match will have little room to equip high performance missiles and are forced to rely more on their superior flight performance. Such a system would also allow aircraft to actually carry the breadth of what they could in real life as they could only utilize the more advanced systems in their own or high br matches, as well as providing a practical use for the mid-tier weaponry you unlock along the way through the modifications tree. Conceptually this would be fairly similar balancing to how sp work in ground or even how the old air sim used to work i guess - just a better more polished version of it for air rb, IMO.
Obviously changes like these would require a massive amount work from the devs, but since we are starting to get closer to having all reasonably relevant modern aircraft in game - time could be spent on developing and balancing these modes, instead of delivering quite as many new vehicles per patch. Gaijin would likely make more money doing this anyway - purely from better long term player retention alone - than continuing in their current strategy. Finally, if anyone actually read this far - let me know if you would like to see this or a similar system in game, or share your ideas on how you would fix this mess =P
I can say that my first experience with jets (Isreal vautour IIa, 9.0, no flares and four shafrirs, rockets, or bombs, and custom preset capable, so these can be mixed, max speed I've hit is Mach 0.91), was filled with su-25ks and the occasional a10 team, I have since almost stopped playing that plane until they fix this issue, as it is making me lose SL
I’m gonna be honest. The only reason I ground to high tier US air was for the f-100. My grandfather flew it in vietnam and I was super excited to be able to fly it out in war thunder and have fun with it. Once I got it I realized it was absolute trash, but I kept playing it hoping that maybe, if I got enough mods it would become a playable aircraft. Sadly, I almost spaced it and then, absolutely crushed that one of my favorite aircraft ever build actually sucked, stopped playing war thunder for a solid 3 months. I had no desire to play again for a long time but I eventually got over it. I would love to see the f-100 be playable again.
Yeah i feel that br decompression should really happen because if you get uptiert to 11.3 with the f14 its just a pain in the ass
had this happen in a mig 21 i ended up notching 3 pheonixes i was laughing pretty hard.
it hell flying my hunter against a-10s and a6-trams so i keep 6km distance away from them but if they are not looking at me its a free kill
This was the biggest reason why I stopped playing the game. I know im not the best but it took me 1000hrs just to get top tier jets for usa. the br and economy are so broken that I have no drive to play the game.
Unfortunately, the higher the BR, the more boring the game becomes. With pik entertainment on BR 3 to 4. Although sometimes BR 1 is incredibly fun because it's so wild and crazy.
It goes both ways sometimes.. Kfir Canarad Premium 10.7 BR carries only 2 AA missiles, and sometimes killed by F14 (I don't even know how. I thought it's 11.3) front aspect missiles before even blinking..
But yeah, trying to grind with jet bombers without any flares at BR 9.0 is a nightmare
Excellent video, but I love how anytime you try to have this discussion in game, no matter how civil you are, the first response you get is either "skill issue" or something about "oh well these missiles can actually be dodged quite easily, all you have to do is be positioned perfectly, have perfect situational awareness, be able to see every player before they're spotted and act accordingly to all of the enemy team's flight paths, and, once a missile inevitably gets launched at you, pull advanced aerobatic maneuvers with energy you do not possess."
One of the worse things is that, for example, jets like the CL-13A MK5 is at 9.0, my first 2 games were basically fighting mig17s, other sabers etc...and it was fun, after that first 2 games, was just agains A10s, SU-25S, and other supersonic jets with 20-30g missiles and flares, and here i was with a almost stock CL13 XD
Yeah, the US 104s are sad. The 104Gs are also quite painful but not as bad
F104J as well it does have somewhat good IR missiles but once an enemy throws a missile at you its pretty much over
I was playing the j35a but I just had to stop and switch to the mig21smt and f8e, now I have like 5 kd with those planes, thanks to the premium players with 0 skill. But this is a huge problem and should be solved, by changing a br of a vehicle based on which missiles it carries for examole
Above 8.3, jets without flares should never be uptiered. That would be enough for me to be happy. One tip if you don't have flares is to bring unguided rockets to shoot off as flares. If I'm in a jet without flares, I check before the match starts to see if I'm uptiered and leave immediately if I am.
While that does sound nice, it's not a solution.
A mig-15 that always gets downtiered would just be incredibly broken.
@@jojomaster7675 When I say uptiered, I'm against full uptiers like the 8.7 mig 15 being fully uptiered to 9.7. That's ridiculous with the 10.0s averaged into a 9.7 lineup in AB. It's also ridiculous against things like the SU-25 in RB. The mig 15 would be okay in a match at 9.0 or maybe even 9.3 if SU-25s are not averaged in. I'm up to 11.3 in the Russian and US trees, and I mainly fly US. I don't have problems killing mig 15s with my F-84s and F-86s. Mig 15s are not 163s or kikkas in my opinion.
@@johntc8840 Oh, you mean jet ab? That place is dead anyway. Arcade isn't really worth playing past ww2.
And honestly, I'd say if you took out the op 20-30G missiles, the mig-15 would fair well against most other 9.7s. That plane is absolutely broken if you know how to fly it.
And yes, you are right, the mig-15 is nothing like an me163 or kikka, it's actually a competitive plane. Kinda broken tbh. If you knwo how to fly it, you can beat literally everything, it's crazy just how good it is.
I own both the russian and german mig-15s and the only thing I struggle with are high-G missiles. Nothing else is a problem, not even the swarms of mig-21s and su7s, and certainly nothing american.
@@jojomaster7675 I mean both ab and rb but each has its own quirks when it comes to matchmaking and brs. Maybe I'm just going up against bad pilots flying the Mig-15, but I don't have issues shooting them down. The premium mig-21, su-25, 163, and kikka are the only ones that I see as truly broken for their brs. The high G missiles are definitely ridiculous for the lower brs they are at.
@@johntc8840 You are right that each has it's quirks, for example, ab is better for begginers and sl farming, while rb is better for skilled players with sl to spare.
Still though, it's a simple fact that jet ab is unplayable. It's always been that way. 6 minutes queue time just to end up in a 5v5 with one death quitters in premiums.
The high G missiles we can both agree on, but the other stuff not so much. The kikka is avrage at best, the 163 is downright bad (both of them), and I have absolutely no clue which premium mig-21 you mean, since there's literally 4 of them. Out of those, both of the russian ones are garbage, the lazur-M is literally just a normal bis, and the SPS-K I don't realyl have any experience with.
And the Su-25 could be fixed very easily by giving it a split br - a lower one if it doesn't bring AAMs (9.3-9.7), and a higher one if it does(10.3-10.7).
There's a simple solution:
1. Modifications effect battle rating.
2. Modifications that allow the use of certain secondary weapons can be disabled, just like any other.
This way, you can go for a lower tier in the Su-25 by disabling the R-60s or only face flare capable planes if you have them enabled.
i thought this ground RB problem but for tanks itslef has no severe problem like air rb, but ground rb has its own problem, plagued by CAS
They really need to do a split BR thing. Split, the non-missle holding, non-supersonics from the supersonic, missle holders. At least in AIR RB
Top tier jets is just devoid of all skill it's that simple.
Air RB was about so much one of the main things it was about was maintaining a dominant position, now a few key presses can make you have to give away everything just to not die
They need to make the payload locked to the br pre match, example you can disable them and play and a lower br and only for air
It is very convenient of you, not to mention Germany and their struggles against US top tier air. You mentioned Japan, Italy, France and Sweden yet Germany (a huge Nation with a large player base by the way) doesn't get flares till 10.3, no Air to Air missiles till 9.3 and once you get them, you get only 2 Aim 9b's (with no flares, as usual). US Cas has better Anti Air capabilities then German Fighters with them having more missiles at a lower BR. US fighters are getting their first missiles at 8.3, and then they get 4 of them as opposed to only 2. And it just continues. US main's getting SARH missiles at 9.3, literally a full BR before German mains get flares (10.3). Anyhow this is just me venting my frustration, at least we can hope for the future, with Rank VIII added there's a good chance we can get stuff like the "Peace Rhine" (Upgraded Phantom that's actually good) and the East german Mig 29.
love getting decimated in my 10.3 plane by a phoenix missiles after dumping all my chaff on it and still getting destroyed🥰
how they could fix the problem is just make it so taking air to airs on an A-10 or su-25 will increase its battle rating to like 10.0 or something, just make it so that taking A2As will increase your br on these low-ish br attackers
ALL ALL ASPECT MISSILES SHOULD VE MIN
12.0
I have said this before but gaijin should give countermeasures to jets even if they didn't have them in real life. That combined with BR decompression is the only way to fix this problem.
People might say "but thats unrealistic". Sure, but it is also unrealistic for these early jets to fight against advanced high G missiles, and yet it happens in war thunder. Screw it, I am sick of the realistic loadouts. We need the countermeasures.
Why not dodge them?
@@GreenBlueWalkthrough Do you even play the game? It's physically impossible for most planes to dodge R-60s and AIM-9Ls kinetically without the help of flares
As an Italy main:
-We only have two planes with flares, F104g (10.7) and F104S.ASA (11.3).
-The F104S.ASA at 11.3 has a NON-DIRECTIONAL RWR, can only carry four missiles (albeit very, VERY, good missiles), and loses it's gun if it takes SARH missiles.
-The F104S is 10.7 with no flares and loses it's gun if it takes SARH missiles.
-We have the most power crept and over BR'd plane in the entire game since the Mig19s just went down to 9.3, the G91YS that costs 480,000RP to spade, is subsonic, has no RWR, no flares, no radar, and gets two Aim9Bs as a tier 4 mod.
-We only have one rank 7 aircraft and got it a year later than everyone else (France has six or seven, the nation Gaijin supposedly hates so much more than everyone else.)
I've been playing the F104S.ASA a lot again lately after a very long break, and the thing absolutely dominates some games. It can climb to 12km very easily and Mach 1.4 dive on a hairball with four Aim9Ls. It is the only JET worth playing in the entire air tree.
-Also, we still don't have any guided bombs, SACLOS missiles, and only AS20s on a single non-premium plane.
@@perennialE As an Italy main, it really hurts when I see Germany, Russia, US, even French mains complain about all this shit they don't have while Italy and Japan just get completely ignored. Honestly, just give us the Centaruo B2, the A129D (Spike ER), the MB339K (a light A10 equivalent), and the Tornado ADV and I bet the entire Italian community would be happy for the next two years. We don't want to absolutely ruin the game *coughRUSSIAcough*, we just don't want, every, single, match, to feel like we're fighting uphill.
In sim you have the Br range 11.0-12.3 now, it’s +1.3 but just -1.0 for 11.0 vehicles, so they are treaded even more unfairly now!
I'm so close to rank V on the German tech tree without buying any premiums and I've noticed you don't have to buy premiums to advance but it costs your mind because it's so annoying having to get uptierd to a game where my tank is useless.
its a bit ridiculous if you ask me. premium lobbies full of a10 and su25. point and click that's it. I got the f105d thinking I cold use it to grind out to at least the a10 so I could play competitively but I can't even reach the enemies base to bomb without getting hit by a su25. without flares its useless just a money pit deathtrap
Something I do for aim 9l’s and R60m’s is go head on with them and have my aam to lock on to their aam and they will lock on to each other sometimes even hitting one another. It’s a trade off but it works.
@@perennialE does firing the small hydra like rockets on j35d on all aspect missile front aspect then pull of work?
3:31 missile jumpscare warning
dude i think we can all agree we need flairs on the ariete (the plane not the tank because ive seen so many people get confused by it)
@@perennialE lol true love your vids
im happy i play props all though yak 3u, ju 288, and f this im playin il-2 battle of stalingrad and dcs
Now you know how us Ground RB players feel going against ATGM's in our end of WWII era tanks; really fun matchmaking WT.
I’m a ground rb player. Or I was. I stopped playing a year ago over issues like this with tanks. The ent teir ww2 tanks, especially for Germany are unplayable. So are early war cold war tanks because they just get tossed in with modern day MbTs and CAS.
I moved over to enlisted (another Gaijin game). Where my bolt action can carry me in any match, but the funny thing is the same issue is now essentially popping up as there’s no teir system and now new players with M3 Stuart’s are being tossed in vs Panther and Tiger tanks on Normandy.
I got the A-6E for one reason: I like Grumman planes. That’s why I prefer the F-14A over the F-16
And that’s why I’m very excited for the F-14B in the next update
The Draken gets murdered alot, no tracers and no flares against 30g missiles, but if it goes to 9.3 it will dominate since it can turn like fuck, its stuck at 9.7
It is really infuriating as after apex predators released the top tier game felt completely different. planes like the A7D are just cannon fodder. Sure the flares easily mess up a missile but your just a big boat in the sky. I think a great solution is having the option (so both parties are happy) to play the bigger maps, and not a 7x7 grid square that forces instant fighter missile gameplay.
This is why I went back to 6.7-7.7. I got sick of being put into teams where all the friendly premium F-4's and A-10s get wrecked within the first 5 minutes, leaving leaving me and maybe another player to face off against a team that still has 7-8 planes left.
Admittedly though, it was fun to seal club noobs with premium F4s late in game when the enemy team has been whittled down to just 2 or 3 planes. It's hilariously easy to bait them into a turn fight they'll never win using an Me 163.
I love subsonic fighters with no flares facing supersonics and Aim-9Gs
They claim its in favour of match making, but i just kinda stopped playing after getting missiled for the umpteenth time in a jet without flares the moment i got anywhere close to the battle....
It's almost like they added aircraft and weapons system they said would never add to the game, but they 180'd that real quick cause money without fixing the existing problems with the game and the problems only keep piling up with no fix in sight.
I was away from this game for 6yrs then came back to get the strumtiger, tb3 and xf5f (I didn't get the fucking latter 2. I got 2 useless tanks and a boat I'll never play, and a lagg) and I'm confident in saying that nothing has changed since I left, only has gotten worse.
The thing is the attackers with aimLs or r60s whatever will do just time going up even to like 11.0 because their flight performance literally doesn’t matter they already fly worse than 99% of jets. Also su25 tanking multiple missiles had been making me just avoid them most of the time. It’s damage model Is definitely over performing
Gaijin NEEDS to decompress the BR, it's long overdue
I enjoy playing the F-86, its how I got to where I am in the Japanese air tree, but while I am ok being slower than other jets, I don't feel like I have a chance against anything with better than 9B's.
80% or so of the games I have had in the A-10 A Late have been full up tiers, with a bit of skill and a lot of patients (and I mean a lot) I have maintained a 2-1 kills to game ratio, it could go to 11.3 and the only thing that would change is I won't have to fight the most OP plane in the game the A-5C. Yes I will confidently say that it is 100% more OP than the A-10 A Late just because it can be in space with the 550 Magic and sure it only has 18 countermeasures, well it only needs one to decoys most missiles it faces, so can we stop talking about the A-10's and Su-25's being the most OP thing at that BR and focus on the plane that half the time doesn't even show up with Gaijin perfect spotting mechanic (all jokes aside this thing appears less often than other planes)
Not going to lie to you, you are completely wrong on the A5C, if you see a serious issue with it, either you are lying about owning an A-10 with unbeatable AIM-9L's, mind you, or you don't know how to click your flare button 2/3 times, this shouldn't be an issue seeing you have 300 plus. A5C not only isn't too maneuverable, it also has some of the worst guns in the game. The A-10, is such a problem, that in most matches, that sector of the map where A-10s are, is locked off because of their AIM-9L.
@@honnyhodza @HonnyHodza I can beat any other jet with the A-10 but the A-5 could come from any direction, and it is still a MiG 19 so it can and will beat the A-10 (even rate fighting). If you have the A-5 and are struggling how about you take off the bombs and rockets, get some altitude and learn to dog fight instead of being one of the many players I kill at top tier which offer less of a challenge than the AI CL-13's, the A-10 death sector only goes up 4km
@@Thunderbox247 then my solution to you is turn on your brain, and look around for planes rather than complaining, you'll beat the A5C in a dogfight and he won't be able to flare away your missile, legit a skill issue on your end.
@@honnyhodza The A-5C has the speed and climb rate to get above everything so how about you stop bombing bases and learn how to dog fight, it is still a MiG-19 it can out do the A-10 in a rate fight where it's missiles are no use. the A-10 is fricking heavy it was not designed for this. As for the guns, while they're not the best and their ballistics are painful, they sill can deal damage if you are good enough
In terms of looking round, I have to look 360 by 360 degrees and can only look in a single direction at a time and WT spotting mechanic doesn't always show where people are unless you are looking in that direction, the 550 Magic's it has are still some what flare resistant (not to the same extent and the 9L). My point was about the A-5 being uncatchable not just for the A-10 which is the slowest plane at that BR by a long way, I can deal with A-10's in MiG's and Mirages with a bit of time and patience (and a shear amount of trust that the A-10 is not looking in the direction I am coming from) but the A-5 can do everything my planes can but better
My original comment is how the the A-10 and it's 9L's are overpowered and the one plane I struggle with the most is the A-5, not the F-14, not MLD, not the Mirage 2000 or the J-7E because if they go high they die to AIM-7F's and other SARHM and I was just calling the A-5 out for being just as broken as the A-10 and Su-25, so all you are doing is admitting you suck at flying the A-5. All three should be the same BR just a full BR higher where they are and not fighting F-86 Sabres which pushes other planes down in BR (BR compression). So how about you turn on your brain and read the full comment before you try to defend your clearly pay to win premium plane
Just remember the A-10 can't get much above 5km before the enemy finds it and at that Alt it can't manoeuvre to save itself from a a plane going Mach 1.2 and if it can get its nose around the target is several KM away beyond the reach of the 9L and if its on the deck well it's not an immediate threat and just wait till it start ground striking then attack, there that's how you beat the A-10 (and Su-25 too an extent) but I will reiterate the A-5 is a different beast and a lower BR that the A-10 I use and all three are OP
@@Thunderbox247 k
its been rough playing france i got to this tier, I have to position, not to mention sometimes the missiles just dont show up i have to look for "smoke in the air" XD. I mean its a fun challenge but i wish when we got into matches with these types of planes especially in uptiers they gave flares out, not historical but this game isn't a sim, its a game.
The Mig-21SMT can carry up to 4 R-60s or R-3Rs. it's a hidden gem of an aircraft
Edit: Ground attackers with 30g "self defense" missiles are hard to balance. Put them too high, they get outclassed in Ground RB by fast attack jets. Put them too low.. and this happens.
If you don't think they can be put too high, try the Su-25BM/T/39 in Air RB. Have fun fighting F-16s and Mig-27s with a subsonic jet that can't turnfight, flies worse than a brick, and has 4 AAMs max, 2 of which aren't even the "main features". You get 2 R-73s, with no HMD, and 2 R-60Ms, a missile that gets sensory overload from the ammount of flares flying around due to 16V16, and all the IRCCM misiles everywhere
I think the reason aircraft are being compressed is to keep the play base close together imagine if aircraft did go to 15.0 and tier idk 12?
Players would be spread way out making games harder to find.
So to keep que time low warthunder has the BR system compressed and only increases it when it absolutely has 2.
Least this is my guess as to way they would compress top tiers
Honestly I’ve given up on the game I play a little bit if I don’t feel like playing anything else but getting to rank 2 tanks and experiencing new maps it’s just exhausting either you spend 30 minutes running around cautiously waiting for that one off guard target only for YOU to be caught off guard or your spending 30 minutes just trying to get to the A point because your tanks a literal snail then not to mention heaven forbid everyone forgets to bring any AAA at all because then once the enemy gets about 3 planes up you can’t even spawn and if you do get out of spawn your immediately blown away by like 3 or 4 guys around the corner
I actually can't hear the lock tone when on the defense an my audio sometimes shakes my windows....so either my game has gone Awol or im just deaf...i play squad and Duck when getting shot but rarely do i react with warthunder
There needs to be an optional guns only matchmaker for high tiers IMO. Ground out the mig 17 and its genuinely useless in the matchmaker. Ground the Su-25 and cant make any money despite positive k/d and ground targets killed. The difference in thrust between BRs is also huge.
Anyone else want the Su25 erased from warthunder history🤩
Sadly true, - the only plus side is that since I only play non missile meta BRs, the "grind" is almost non existent for me
TechTree feels broken - there is no reason to play TopTier Jets and Tank RB.
SilverLions eaten away ridiculously - getting pawned in stock jets without flares and advanced weapons- Spawncamping by SU25 or Drone
This is painfull.
Try playing the IL28 in 7 matches I died to missiles that made that plane unusable
You forgot to mention the fact that germany has actually trash jets because of br compression you don't get flares until rank 7 and only the f86 and cl13 mk6 have missiles in rank 6 but they are aim 9b and they are fighting against stuff like a10
Understand that they want to be realistic which sometimes makes it unfair, and then other times, for the sake of fairness, they make the battle ratings unrealistic
This and the punishment via repair cost for playing top tier made me uninstall this fuckfest without looking back. Three kills per death and I was still losing SL. There is no fun to be had here. Blatantly manipulative company.
I am so sas recently had some Leopard 1 despite my highest B.R vehicle being Jumbo (76) sitting at 6.3 leopard 1s are smokin me with their DM 12 APFSD its so fuckEd up
I find it funny how the A-1H US prop plane has flares/chaff and my Harrier and J35 don't even though technologically they are better and are at a higher BR
At 9.3-10.3 you either get good flight performance or good missiles. F-5C: good flight performance, shit missiles
A-10, A-6E, Su-25: good missiles, shit flight performance
AV-8A: decent missiles, sub par flight performance
As someone who used to play casually just around the introduction of ground vehicles, then on and off since then, I wonder how far down the rankings this goes? Like, I'm not great, I'll admit it, but I had a game in an M10 where I think a concept 3 just destroyed me. A light tank I faced in a full upteir had equal or better penetration, way better post pen damage, and just iced a tank destroyer far slower and more clunky than it. I feel it a lot with planes too - I'm basic, I like my mustangs, but even if I just space climb all match I swear there's a german plane hanging out a few hundred feet above me. If I cave and go for the F6 or whatever it is, I get 3+ kills a match without breaking a sweat even at a higher BR. It all just feels inconsistent and so widely varied. And rarely fun.
As Ive been playing the F104A for fun, I couldn't agree more. If I so much as get locked by a 3 year old with an R-60M, I'm done for.
Thats why i dont Spend a Penny in this Game since over anyear now
Good thing we get to sell event shit on the marketplace. Got a shitload of premium content without pulling a single penny from my wallet...
@@Jaeger_89 yep :D
the worst is trying to play a top tier jet that is far outclassed in weapon loadout and still doesnt have flares (cough cough f4c cough cough)
Also ever since I introduced my friend into war thunder we have way more fun in low tier.
As a UK main I just want to point out the hypocrisy when it comes to SRAAMS, yeah they are good but compared to what is now at and lower than 10.0, its wild no one makes a big stink about R60M's and Aim 9L's at 9.7 or has done yet. Also yeah the 8.7 to 9.7 experience is not fun anymore, I used to have some of the best jet fights at 9.7 before the removed the br cap, you also got less uptiers from 8.7 because you werent forced to just play top tier so there was an equal spread.
i would not say that the Harrier has great missiles, back when it was added sure - they were great - but when you face teams full of A-10's F-5's A-6E's - ALL of which have like 400 flares ((and AIM-9L's aka the best missile in the game)), the SRAAMS are just overshadowed by the AIM-9L's And G's which makes it kinda useless (((unless you use the SRAAM as a countermeasure against AIM-9L's))) - dont forget that the AIM-9L faces things from 1960 and sometimes even Sabres ((which is a war crime))
same foes with GRB, fucking tanks with no thermel and night vision got pair in to Night map alot , it's just so stupid
Totally disagree on harrier and yak38 you literally have to be smart to play that plane or you die to a Mig21 every time. Everything else this is 100% true.
I think as a community we can all agree that the most wanted change to war thunder is the battle rating system. Forget about adding new vehicles-just make an update solely for BR changes, with community input. The power creep for so many top tier here has gotten out of hand and gaijin has done nothing about it, except add more toxic and op vehicles. I hope this video gets circulated around the community more so more people are aware of this massive issue.
The call for BR decompression is so loud and unanimous that Gaijin _has to_ know it's a problem. The days where the Canadair Sabre was "broken" just because it was a bit faster than the US Sabres and MiG-15, and turned a bit better than the Hunter, seem like absolute paradise compared to the hellish 8.7-10.3 bracket these days. The counterplay against A-10s and SU-25s is "Don't be within 5km of them, ever, unless you personally saw them shoot both missiles." The Milan, for example, should be a great aircraft despite not having countermeasures. And yet, the only way to play it is to rush a base, bomb it before the froggies get there, then exfil as quick as you can before you catch an undodgeable missile. Then, when you're back behind your entire team, _maybe_ turn back in and try to pick off engaged enemies.
The reason they're at extremely low BRs isn't because they'd perform poorly any higher. They're at low BRs because a broken, undefeatable missile guaranteeing 2 kills per game is a *great* way to sell someone a $60 bundle of pixels. They _will not_ decompress BR because players with heavy wallets wanting to get to the top spot and stop suffering is their moneymaker.
exactly my problem, when i fly the me 262 in matches, i always get killed by air to air missiles and i dont even get any defenses, im just a sitting duck, the match making system needs to be changed
By the way War Thunder does have compation alot of it in fact... World of tank/ships/planes, Armored warfare, Ace combat 7,DCS world, IL2 great battles....
I whole heartedly agree with your points, but nothing is going to change. Gaijin has made that clear. As i climbed the ranks throughout 10 years, i remember so many flavors of the months, going from some newly introduced broken premium, to an end game plane, just so they create a circle of spending real money. Remember the time the spitfire mk ix was a single plane, not two, on the br of the first one screwing bf109f's with 150 octane performance? How about the f4u1d with f4u4 performance? How about the hunter, or the mig17, or the mig19, or the t2, that was introduced with a radar with nk ground clutter and lead indicator? Its just the way it is. And if you dont grind with 60 euros worth kf premium plane + premium time you will never be ahead of the curve.
At this point Gaijin should just bring back its 9.3-9.7 "no cross" line
Id say one of the worst is the f4c phantom ii which doesn’t have flares at 10.0 going against the best ir missiles in the game even with a full downtier
Helps massively if turn off afterburner dodging missiles but it is still terrible compression and massive issue
Atleast the harrier gr1 is balanced by not having flares, a long missle range where the missle is able to glide, speed and turning capability and you know why its like that because its a ground attacker you cant complain about being killed by one if you have flares or if your able to outrun it because its a brick that falls with style
Im finally researched the f104a and I was really excited because you know you going fast so you can out run them but no the r60 just go too fast and now what I thought was going to be a fun plane is now completely useless against them
Just went from 25k-18d on my f86-f40 sabre to 28k-30d because i keep getting up tiered and a a10 will snipe me from across the map.
Oh, I know the problem. its something that I've seen for years.
Though the most egregious crime by Gaijin could arguably be the constant Nerfing of Rockets, though the BR Compression's also pretty bad and has been going on for the same amount of time.
I just unlocked the A32A from Sweden. I genuinely need help. Tf am I supposed to do??? Even a 10G all aspect missile from a premium mig21 is insanely difficult to dodge, so what the fuck am I supposed to do when it comes to Su25/A10A's????
@@perennialE I was enjoying myself while using the SAAB105G for a while, but now that I've reached Rank VI its practically hopeless. Sweden doesn't even get flares until 10.3 with the Viggen, and even then you have to research them
@@perennialE I've come back after fully spading it and yep, while it sucks it atleast is barely playable. You just fail to exist if there is a single mig 21 on the other team. All you can do is climb and dive on A10A's who aren't paying attention. I hate it, but I made it to the AJ37 and life is no longer so bad.