Carb Cheater Install on our '79 AMC AMX! Feedback, datalogging, and tuning .. for a Carb!?
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- Carbs are great, we love them, we have loved them since we first learned what they were and how they worked, and they have powered countless classics and muscle cars over the decades. With a couple simple hand tools, a well calibrated nose, ears, and pair of eyeballs they can be dialed in to perform incredibly well. However, they CAN be intimidating for the uninitiated who may or may not have had much exposure to them.
Enter the Thunderhead289 Carb Cheater, for those of us who want to keep our classics carb fed but would like some of the information and feedback that's available in the more modern EFI systems. This is NOT an EFI conversion system like a Holley Sniper or a FiTech, this is a trick add on piece that incorporates a wide band O2 sensor, a MAP sensor, two vacuum lines, and a bit of simple wiring. The install? Pretty straight forward and simple... unless of course you have a questionable or oddball car that has some hidden challenges for you!
Full testing and drive cycles to come! Stay tuned!
Interested in owning your OWN Card Cheater?
thecarbcheater.com/ 
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I love how you are a 100 percent legit dude who knows his stuff and drives awesome rides.
Thank you Sir, and thanks for creating this crazy little thing I now get to play with! New favorite toy!
Hey Luke has anyone tried one on a carburetor 305 boat motor
You physically working everyday would be about like the old man at SRC physically working everyday !
Y’all need to stick with holding the camera 😂😂
Used tuɓrrò th400 low miles
You lost me at vacuum. I can fix anything with just a hammer, but im not doing any cleaning. Its not for me.
Been a fan of Luke's channel for a long time great old-school tech He is a top Notch Dude! Learned a lot about tuning and timing from him. since it has been 30 years since I messed with a carb or points. I found him when I bought my T-bucket and ran like crap till I watched him. Now it is a Tire Burning MF. Thanks For sharing.
Randomly met him on Power Tour 2021, what a great dude and CRAZY smart. True mad scientist kinda guy but super super nice!
The glance back when you said 'I'm not that unprofessional' was priceless.
Gotta keep it honest even with a little light heartedness 😉
I bought a Carb Cheater from Luke last year and its now installed in my 1959 Chevy Apache NAPCO, sitting on a 350 SBC 4-bolt main and a new Edelbrock 650 cfm 4 barrel. Can't wait to fire it up over the next 3 weeks, will update issn
There are still very mechanically minded and actually ingenious young people like Luke. There is also real guys like you and Rich that we all can appreciate and learn from. Thanks for sharing this. Also I am also a hand tools guy too. A lot of us old guys are.
Carb Cheater is impressive. Happy you finally have a working tachometer. LOL.
I could hear the difference from my house. Luke is a genius. Lawn mower carb Luke had the best gas mileage of everyone in his last Rally. Great video for home mechanics and DIY guys like me.
My brother has your exact car. He has owned it since 1980. He has upgraded it with a built AMC 360. Cam, headers, 10:1 pistons. Oil mods and pan. He has a tremec 5 speed with 3:73 gears in the rear. This car moves and is so rare to see today. He weekly drives it and enjoys every second of it😁. I will forward this video to him. Good job on the install.
NICE, Always wanted one.
The big smile on your face as you were going through the gears at the end of the video was priceless
It's really hard to explain just how stupidly fun this little car is. Never would have imagined I would get this connected to it.
I’ve learned a lot on Luke’s channel. Love to see things like this
Luke is an awesome dude and total Mad Scientist beyond glad to have randomly met him a couple years ago on Power Tour. Very real, very smart, and humble gentleman.
Loving mine. It immediately showed me where my tune (carb and timing) were needing some love. It's a great learning tool for those not familiar with old school setups and squeezing out the best drivability and performance. Luke's the man
Good to hear! That's the extremely useful part of this little doohicky, you can get a LOT of the benefits of dyno tuning with a whole lot less time money and experience. Especially for folks that haven't been / don't want to go to "Carb School" this is a great idea 👍
Agreed, Luke IS the man 😉
how long did it take to receive yours
@@slayerofsouls1182 I picked it up right from Luke on Power Tour in June
@slayerofsouls1182 bought mine on Power Tour actually he brought a couple specifically for some of us to test
So you never heard of a wide band before?
I’ve also been following Luke and very interested in the Carb Cheater for my ‘75 Dodge-based RV. Great review and endorsement, Austin!
Bro that exhaust note is excellent And it sounds way better than the exhaust on these new Mustangs Camaros Etc
I love the little AMX. So did Uncle BuckO and Kenny Powers! LoL. I've been wanting to see someone else install the Carb Cheater. Keep us updated on results!
This kit is impressively complete, he really though of everything and it's insane value, a big name brand would charge waaay more and the components in the kit seem very impressive like there made by a big name with huge R&D and manufacturing, not a budget looking setup.
@ 3:12 I was worried you were going to wind up your beard in the drill chuck!!! That would be a very bad day, not to mention it would hurt like hell.
Thank you very much for this honest to goodness review of the product! Good job! AMC forever!
I hope luke hit the gold mine...he made an affordable product ..I mean a wideband is 200.00. Lol. He knows 99 of 100 carb rigs out there run rich so made a system that introduces a controlled vacuum leak...brilliant....if I still ran carbs I'd get one just because I live in an area with wild temp and altitude changes. As long as it runs fat it will work perfectly... And the interface with the phone and added stuff like 2 step and rpm.limiter makes it alot of bang for the buck. Enjoy not having to dick with jetting every season and just driving your ride.
Ok I was wondering that very thing. Essentially you would want to almost tune it on the rich side then let the cheater handle the rest?
I am on the wait list for the Carb Cheater... a great video that shows us how the product installs and works ... Thanks again.
I went to his channel and the man has a wormhole screen saver. I have to agree; he's way to smart!!!
Great show brother, I'm so glad someone else did the carb cheater and you my friend did a fantastic job, love the channel dog....great stuff...oh yeah....Mopar or no car 👍👍👍👍👍✅✅✅✅✅
Been following him since he put the lawnmower carb on he is very intelligent guy.
had a black AMX like this one but mine didnt have the moonroof it had the 4 speed . i loved it but got in a tight for money and sold it .i have regretted it ever since . mine handeled better than i ever thought it would in fact the guy i sold it too called me when he got it running and bragged on how well it handled ! your videos have made me yearn for my old AMX! if possible i would like to maybe talk to you on the phone because i have questions about the AMX that maybe you could answer . thanks for the memories these videos brought back
Great video man. Didn't realize how close your are to me!
Nice to see. Will be following your testing.
Perfect timing! A 1979 Mustang Cobra kind of fell in my lap and I’m not looking to do anything super crazy to it. Great video. 👍👍👍
Ummmm a 79 Cobra fall in your lap? I ... ummm.. "need" one of those!
Haha… yeah - we’ll it comes complete with a house in shambles and weekend after weekend of work paying utilities at 2 addresses while you work on it. 🤣
Great Video, I really like that carb cheater, I need to get one on preorder myself..
Absolutely incredible!!! Luke IS a actual genius!! 😉
Like. He really is. Not just plays one on TV!
I have been thinking for quite a while making my own, but I think I will pick up one of his.
Congratulations Austin on your installation of the Carb. Cheater. Not to many times we get to see you in action. It was a pleasure. A man with his toys. Are you going to use this on the new build? Thanks for sharing Austin.
💯👍👊
Thanks Terry, I don't get much chance to wrench these days with everything else I have going on and the shop typically packed full. Just happened to have a free rack and a couple free hours so I knocked this out. I DO enjoy playing with my toys that's for sure!
cant wait for the next test run.
I follow Luke as well, and when he announced his Carb Cheater, I thought "Hhhmm, almost the best of both worlds"! Well, as soon as I can get the money together, I want one for my 401 (cam, ported heads, 9.5 compression and dual exhaust) J20!
its just a metered vac leak in its most basic form ,the clever bit is the programing . i honestly thought there'd already b something like this given the amount of people driving carbed motors in north america but since there wasn't good on luke for getting it done
Although I agree with your statement, a precisely timed and measured “vacuum leak” isn’t all that basic. Pretty advanced stuff Luke has done here. All that’s required to begin with is making sure there aren’t lean spots. The carb cheater can’t fit those.
Neat product. Very innovative.
Very excited to play with it more soon! Lots of potential uses for this thing
You are hilarious.
Nice presentation.
Russ
Just a tip, You can skip the greasy mess to stop the gaskets sticking and tearing by just using anti seize instead. Just rub it in, and no goopy mess. (other than a couple if fingers looking like the Tin man...lol
Absolutely awesome
I've been pushing this product from the beginning i could see how much it can help
I bought one already, waiting for it to arrive. 1979 Jeep Wagoneer De-smogged AMC 401 Truck Avenger Carb,
Nice! Well you'll basically be doing exactly what I did in this video, though you'll have a LITTLE more room to work with 😉
Seen his video about the carb cheater , I'd like to pick one up , if I can swing it I have 3 carbureted vehicles. Good video 👍
I was thinking to myself I would have plugged each end of that vacuum line on the spacer plate and put clamps on before installing it. Be interesting to see how it all works out.
Lots more testing and tuning with this little thing to come. So far we definitely dig it!
Watching now! Very curious to see how this works.
Pretty cool piece of wizardry! There will be more with this thing for sure!
Looks.... interesting 😂 indeed it does my friend
Its a fair price, but really a vacuum gauge and exhaust analyzer with some knowledge gets you there as well, The problem, the real problem, is inconsistent and unmeasurable amounts of ethanol ( and the accompanying water it draws and stores for you) in the tank of gas you purchase. You can fiddle around tank after tank thinking you "got it now" and then ...no. The "10%" ethanol is a lie nobody really enforces. You can't really store long , so end of season( or when ever) it gets dumped into the fuel supply . I talked to the independent state regulators ( 3rd party hired by the state) and they found up to 30%. Those levels lead to vapor lock and thanks to the lower energy potential lean bogs on hard acceleration ( sound familiar?). This product is not a magic bullet, don't expect it to be. Good install video and review. Really good exhaust work on your Gremlin plus.
Watched this on Luke’s channel, very impressive and at around $300 pretty good value. However when it gets to here in France I bet it will be the wrong side of €1000 😡
cant wait to get one. gonna wait untill pre order is over 3 months out is alittle long.
This was hard for me to watch. I thought you were gonna pass out. Take care of yourself and be safe in the heat.
🎉🎉sell white truck to fix & recoup $ for both. Life is just a big gamble 😊 I WILL BE WATCHING 🎉🎉
To get a more accurete reading on your AFR's you should have put your wide band sensor in the center of your X pipe seeing as how you only have one sensor.
Luke has a great channel!!!
Yes he does, really great dude with incredible brains and motivation!
Luke is a pretty smart kid genius level in my opinion how awesome would it be to hire him as your personal mechanic you could never go wrong
Any updates on using the Carb Cheater the last 4 months? Great video on installation, thank you!
So it's basically an IAC plumbed to the baseplate that's sortve a backwards way to adjust fuel trims via an 02? It can only add oxygen not take away? If so probably work better if carb is lil rich everywhere to begin with? It's a cool idea, is it just real time or does it store memory in blocks or grid per rpm? With data logging and real time on the phone that's pretty dang cool.
I agree it can't add fuel, and only works on closely tuned carbs
Thunderhead289 has a video where he shows the logging. It can store the data in addition to displaying in real time
It can only correct rich conditions, any lean spots will remain lean spots.
I saw Luke`s videos, he had pretty good success on his Maverick. Did you see the video where he put a lawn mower carb on his Maverick? Resourceful guy. Looks fairly easy to install, hardest part seems to be the O2 sensor. I wonder what OMG`s opinion would be.😁 Looks like the shop could use at least 1 swamp cooler. Good luck Austin.
Luke is the man
I've been studying this design it's basically a idle air controls valve on a stand alone circuit, basically a controlled vacuum leak great design it should work great if Luke would implement background operation of the app or complete standalone ecm module for the iac valve no app needed
Good job thanks 👍
Thanks glad you enjoyed!
@@LucoreAuto yes I did I drove up from Grove City and got information on getting an alignment on the Saab I just bought it was really cool seeing the cars featured in your videos no joking it was awesome thanks
Reminds me of the early Toyotas with mechanical A/C Idle Kick Up mechanism... Big White plastic bolt with a spring... I'd say the system is similar with the IAC mech... Adding/Removing Vaccum Via base plate to lean/enrich the the Intake air... Just a Huntch from observation... Either way, Sweet little Gig...
A lot of that feature is similar to an IAC and how it works yes. He kind of took a lot of little ideas and easy to fix "problems" rolled them all into one and gave us an easy way to interface with them. Cool little device I'll be playing with a LOT more!
@@LucoreAuto Great simple/cheap system as an add on for learning aswell... Thx for sharing...
I believe it is a GM IAC valve repurposed.
It literally is an IAC
It will be interesting to see if you mpg is better. Let us know.
Dude, I just saw your site. You should make a single barrel carb cheater ASAP. The power sports industry is ripe for profit!
So basically it will introduce a vacuum leak to correct over rich conditions as far as what it actively does.
Inactively it's a a/f data reading/logger for tuning without reading plugs.....?
Does that about sum up the meat & potatoes?
Yep, tho the meat is vegan and the potatoes are styrofoam. It's Dunning-Kruger machine for carb guys who can't even jet a carb but want to think they're smarter than EFI guys cause it uses electricity too but is way cheaper than EFI. It's an electronic zip tie fix that gives the exact same benefits as driving around a carb with a wideband and then jetting it correctly per the instruction manual that came with the carb. Nothing magical, genius, or groundbreaking here. Next product will be a carburetor conversion to run off water.or a perpetual motion alternator.
This is interesting, but why this instead of an aftermarket TBI system? I would interested to see the mileage and performance differences between the two systems. Your video is the second one of these I have watched.
That's actually a GREAT question and something I will be addressing in an upcoming video. There are a LOT of questions about this thing, how it works, and why someone would buy one. Also HOW someone would buy one.
Nice helpful install with some jokes too! Thanks! I have a question though, since you seem to know how it functions so well:
Would using an old fashioned smog pump on an old 70s engine cause it to have erroneous readings at the sensor if a lot of air is being pumped in just prior to the sensor in the exhaust manifold/header?
Going to be getting me the Carb cheater soon.
That’s pretty nice
So far it's pretty dang good, looking forward to play with... I mean "Testing" it soon!
“Sorry… foot slipped “…. 🤔🤣😂🤣
Officer 😉
very cool friend how do you like it
So far very cool piece of kit, so many cool useful ways to pit this tech to use. Lots more use of it coming soon!
Cool 😎 !
Well this is definitely not a Holley EFI but most people don't need that this just some gives you great feedback for a very reasonable price
That's the idea AND if it fails, you are still just running a normal old bulletproof carb. Not stranded on the side of the road or worse. There's lots more toying with this thing to do!
~14.7 is a little lean under hard throttle. I apologize if i missed something. I'd target 12.5 at just full throttle then you got the best of both worlds. I kinda skimmed through the video so i might have missed that already being done or you talking about it.
Bill would like to hear about this on old mans garage..
Next time I hear from him or see him I'll mention it. They are having a tough time over there right now though.
He would laugh, just tune it
I could hear Bill now… if a carb was tuned properly to begin with, this unit wouldn’t be needed! In all seriousness though, not everyone has the knowledge or experience like he does to be able to properly tune a carb, so this carb cheater can certainly help with tuning (to an extent) and maybe teach you some things along the way. I’m half tempted to order one myself!
“Looks……………interesting” lol
Finally got to finish watching the video lol. (#dadlife) Looks like a very handy piece of equipment! I love how your 304 sounds a lot like my 401. :D BTW, I also did a T5 swap--loving it! I have some videos on my page if you're interested in checking it out. I'm building a '73 Javelin AMX.
Is that a Hot Rodders secret putting red tacky grease on the gaskets ? Makes them re usable ? Do you leave the carb side clean or put grease on the carb side as well 😁 I like that deal .
HOWdy LUCORE, ...
Yay ! AMC Content 🙂
what ? no Anti-Seize on your O2 Sensor ??? ( or does Anti-Seize screw up the "readings" ??? )
Carb-Spacer has a "top" & "bottom" --- does it have a "FRONT" & BACK" ???
Thanks
COOP
the WiSeNhEiMeR from Richmond, INDIANA
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You have it running when you hooked up. I was under the impression you should only have the key in the on position.
If you had a properly tuned to carburetor to begin with I wonder how much this would help with elevation change for example if you lived it 1200 ft above sea level and drove to 5000 ft above sea level what would be the limit before you had to rejet the carb
Buddy of mine lives in Phoenix, AZ at near seal level and regularly drives up to a family cabin just outside Flagstaff, AZ @ 7k ish ft where his car runs super rich. The carb-cheater is basically an AFR controlled vacuum leak, as I understand it, so its perfect for exactly this scenario so you dont need to retune or put up with a poor tune at high elevation. He's on the wait list or whatever its called and cant wait to get it installed on his old coronet.
Ill be buying mine soon so I can hypermile in my AMC commuter car
Install 3.90 gears in that AMC she will wake up big time
There's a better than average chance we end up doing a gear change at some point. 2.87 with a 5 speed is a little tooooo long... don't need this thing capable of 150mph 😉
You can use it for a speedo and other gauges
Hi everyone, maybe take a second and head over to SRC or OldMan's Garage or Gen 2 after the vid and leave a quick condolence...they had to say goodbye to Bill's Mom.
I'd like to see the plugs before and after.
Hey Austin that s a cool little tool I would like to know what The Old Man Bill thanks of it?!
Next time I see or talk to Bill I'll bring it up, for sure interested to test this thing on the road!
Yeah that kids smart as hell!
Im wanting to get one myself. Now that its been a few months, hows it running?
correct me if im wrong but this setup cannot richen your mixture fatter then the initial AFR the carb is set to correct?
Looks like I'd better start tweeking my 231 in case you pull up next to me at a traffic light.
The utility of this thing is serious, may have found a new favorite toy!
So, after running this for a bit...what kind of MPG's are you getting? I have an AMC 360 in a Wagoneer. I currently have the Holley Sniper and I've had nothing but issues. If you get better than 10 mpg I'd be interested in going back to a carb setup and running the Carb Cheater.
There's still a lot of playing to do and fine tuning of the carb itself BUT even in its current state I'm between 19 and 22mpg. The realllly nice thing about this is even if the unit completely fails you're still using a carb that functions normally. Not stranded... wherever you are when the EFI fails
Interesting product! The only thing I’m concerned with is the air/fuel sensor reading on one bank only. So that being said , if there was an issue with the opposing bank (like somehow not getting enough fuel or too much) how would the carb cheater pick that up and compensate for it?
That's my problem. How's it monitor dual exhaust ?
Most of the aftermarket systems only run a wideband on one side. Unless you're running a BUNCH of power or boost I'd say it's fine
The biggest power steering pulley ever. LoL.
All hail uncle Luke!
👀 wtf........I need that smart carb ..
How's it working for you? Have you noticed any increased mpg or mileage since it was installed? Thank you.
A step stool is a short persons best friend, my wife is 4’8”.
Nice! Update video?
What would be cooler would be a/c for next power tour. Lol
Oh for SURE but I don't think this car ever gets A/C it's too wild and ratty. But there's a better than average chance I drive something with A/C next year!
Just wondering if you wouldn't want to put the O2 sensor at the x in the x pipe. This way you are catching the exhaust off both banks? Isn't the O2 being on one side going to only catch the exhaust off one side of the motor and not tune as effectively as it would if it were getting the entire signal?
Dual plane intakes are not divided the way you think they are.
Each side of the carb fuels 2 cylinders on each bank
@@Texassince1836 Not sure that negates my question. Pretty sure my question still stands as you would still want to know what the exhaust is telling you on both sides of the motor.
LOL, makes too much sense to label the spacer TOP position. Come on Luke, label it with a marker. I’m sure people have installed them wrong.😂. Lots of grunting on this install. Must be hot as hell with that Santa beard. 😢 Luke mentioned that because the O2 sensor connection os new it will take some effort to make it click. Stupid if you ask me.😂
Luke mentioned when I was buying this one and I think in HIS install video there will likely be a label on the "Full version" of this thing. Certainly could be easy to mix up if you don't have the sharpest eyes anymore. The heat and Santa beard for SURE don't mix I was sweating my milk and cookies off doing this!
will this thing work on a turbo or blower?
So.....what does the 'Cheater' actually adjust? I can tell it monitors AFR and vacuum...but ...what does it adjust and how?
👍