This extended movie of a video is 4 months of work, be sure to let me know what you think about this insane rabbit hole of intrigue, information and mystery! Looking forward to your thoughts. PS: I’d 100% suggesting watching the video through then giving me your full thoughts! I did my best to cover everything ❤ 🐫 MERCH - camelworks.creator-spring.com/ 🐫 twitter.com/Camelworks 🐫 instagram.com/camelworks_official/ 🐫 www.twitch.tv/camelworks 🐫 ruclips.net/user/camelworks 🐫 www.patreon.com/Camelworks 🐫 discord.gg/XDGWm72 Elder Scrolls Detective - goo.gl/ah5OBI TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 - Intro 00:03:03 - Town Of Ivarstead 00:05:00 - Narfi The Beggar 00:06:12 - Straw That Broke 00:07:03 - Finding Reyda's Skeleton 00:11:04 - Contract: Kill Narfi 00:14:51 - What We Actually Know 00:15:32 - Two Iron Arrows 00:19:25 - Water Current 00:23:26 - Who Dun It & Why 00:22:44 - An Accident? 00:24:17 - Animals & Creatures 00:24:35 - Temba-Wide Arm Bear Problem 00:25:11 - Stormcloak Killing Troll 00:27:31 - Was It A Hunting Accident 00:29:49 - Treasure Hunters 00:30:49 - Town Guards 00:31:25 - Bandit's 00:32:25 - Vampires 00:33:45 - Venarus Vulpin 00:37:05 - Reyda A Soldier? 00:37:56 - Calendar 00:39:48 - Faked Death 00:40:16 - Villagers Hate Ivarstead 00:42:00 - Necklace 00:42:51 - Reyda Killed Narfu 00:43:20 - Reyda A Witch 00:43:59 - Narfi Rarest Ingredients 00:47:29 - Master Alchemist 00:48:31 - Satchel Rare Items 00:49:28 - Secret Workshop 00:50:29 - Abandoned Alchemist's Shack 00:56:38 - Where Is Reyda? 00:57:06 - Orphan Rock Coven 00:59:26 - Fish Gift 01:02:30 - Hagraven Killed Reyda 01:03:33 - Popular Community Theories 01:04:06 - Narfi Killed His Sister 01:06:07 - Mental Trauma 01:06:32 - Narfi Knows She's Dead 01:07:06 - Heaven In Clouds 01:08:54 - Narfi Innocent 01:09:16 - Narfi Harmless 01:10:06 - Goodbye Mother & Father 01:11:03 - Narf's House Ruined 01:11:48 - Avalanche 01:15:16 - Townsfolk Called Narfi's Assassination 01:16:02 - Werewolf & Moon 01:18:31 - Why Was Narfi Killed? 01:18:45 - Narfi Owed Money 01:20:40 - Stealing From Neighbours 01:22:55 - Klimmek Death Stares / Fishing 01:25:11 - Joffthor Hidden Code 01:27:41 - Bigger Cut Quest 01:29:22 - Wilhelm Master Deceiver 01:31:21 - Comforting Narfi 01:32:33 - Wilhelm 200 IQ Lying 01:33:36 - Geirmund's Hall Island 01:36:05 - Wilhelm Loved Reyda 01:36:39 - The Merciful Innkeeper 01:37:10 - Two Inns Of Ivarstead 01:39:47 - The Ghost Haunting Ivarstead 01:41:15 - Treasure Hunter Wyndelius Gatharian 01:44:16 - Wyndelius' Journal 01:47:38 - Sapphire Dragon Claw Wyldelius Sends Insane 01:48:25 - Wilhelm Sneaking Around Barrow 01:49:23 - Guardian Of Shroud Hearth Barrow 01:50:39 - Jakalor The Draugr Warlock 01:52:35 - Wyndelius Kill Reyda 01:55:10 - Screams In Night 01:57:58 - Wilhelm Screams 01:59:38 - Wilhelm Repeating Narfi's Dialogue 02:03:04 - Cursed Necklace 02:03:30 - Wilhelm Immense Guilt 02:05:15 - Wilhelm Working With Reyda 02:06:04 - Wilhelm Had The Claw 02:07:20 - Wilhelm & Bersi Selling Nordic Treasure 02:08:29 - Why So Many Buckets? 02:09:19 - Barrow Victim 02:10:15 - Why Does Wilhelm Give Us The Claw? 02:12:31 - How Did Wilehlm Get The Claw? 02:13:45 - Reyda Lived At Vilemyr Inn 02:14:48 - Wilhelm Used Reyda As Theif 02:15:33 - Reyda Used An Invisibility Potion 02:16:54 - Wilhelm & The Cart 02:18:02 - Why Did Wilhelm Want Reyda Dead? 02:19:39 - Wilhelm Hates Magic Users 02:20:56 - Book Herbane's Beastiary: Hagravens 02:22:18 - Wilhelm Be Sussin' 02:23:09 - Follow Arrows Truth 02:25:47 - True Dark Nature Of Wilehlm 02:26:25 - Dark Brotherhood Killed Reyda 02:26:58 - Romlyn Dreth Illegal Mead 02:29:53 - Lynly Star-Sung In Hiding 02:32:50 - Where Is Svidi 02:34:41 - Lynly & Bersi 02:36:45 - Rift Banner Easter Egg 02:38:23 - Lynly Paying Wilhelm 02:40:19 - Valuable Gems 02:42:16 - Wilhelm Pays Assassinations 02:42:22 - The Black Sacrament 02:45:05 - Maven Black-Briar Black Sacrament 02:46:28 - Vilemyr Inn Dark Brotherhood Meeting 02:47:23 - Wilhelm Guilty 02:48:54 - Wilhelm's Mental Torture 02:50:07 - Wilhelm Galaxy Brain Plots 02:51:24 - Which Dark Brotherhood Assassin? 02:52:10 - Gabriella Uses A Bow 02:53:09 - Gabriella Sneaking Goddess 02:54:22 - Gabriella Uses Iron Arrows 02:54:44 - Unicorn 02:55:46 - Gabriella Hiding Bodies In Water 02:56:14 - The Apex 02:59:04 - Gabriella Whiterun & Markarth Skeletons 02:59:48 - Reyda Killed By Accident 03:03:11 - Welcome To The Madhouse 03:04:00 - Court Wizard Wylandriah 03:08:27 - Request To The College Of Winterhold 03:09:43 - Greenmote 03:11:36 - How Does She Know 03:12:54 - Callipers Easter Egg 03:13:50 - Wylandriah Whorships Sheogorath 03:15:15 - Wylandriah Was Reyda's Mentor 03:17:29 - Fellstar Farm Cheese Prince 03:18:40 - Butterflies Of Sheogorath 03:20:18 - Butterfly Bug In A Jar 03:22:50 - Fellstar Farm / Fallen Stars / Aetherial Fragments 03:24:12 - The Mad Star / Fell Star 03:26:34 - The Purities Of Mania 03:30:58 - Stars All Over Ivsatsyead 03:31:31 - Sheogorath Invents Music 03:32:37 - Sheogorath Killed Reyda With A Crossbow 03:33:24 - Sithis Shaped Hole 03:34:23 - Syndelius Gatharian Sent Mad With Keys 03:36:50 - Thunder On The Mountain 03:42:53 - Loki Norse Mythology 03:46:01 - Sheogorath Kissed 03:53:50 - Recap 04:04:16 - Outro
here is my thought: you based your entire 4 hour video on developers messing up water flow of a river. considering its bethesda that made fall out 76....thats the most likely thing that happens
Sheo and I were talking, and he said it was hilarious how just turning up the volumn on Narfi drove a whole village mad. Then he threw a wedge of cheddar at me and asked why I was still there. Cheers
A "who called the hit" series would be really cool actually, where you investigate the contracts Nazir gives you and why someone would have wanted them carried out
We do know that the woman who is a minor in Dawnstar has her bounty called by the man minor in Dawnstae. They used to be maried and divorsed, the man is happy to get rid of his only competetor and just estactic to have her dead at all
I think the necklace being in the bag is due to the devs making Reyda's skeleton an immovable object, instead of a lootable skeleton which typically has buoyancy.
IDK why but when I found it I was like 'oh she put it in here so it wouldn't get in the water while she was swimming' just assumed the bag was waterproof
I’m 54 minutes in and just realised it’s 4 hours long. Wtf. Haha (I’d just started a new skyrim character a few days ago with the new anniversary stuff to try out) I came across this quest again with Reyda but couldn’t remember if I’d finished it and found her killer or not. So this video got recommended to me and my god it’s more than I bargained for 😂
I was the opposite the second I realized it looked like her body was dumped under that bridge I started asking questions that have no definitive answer. Does Wilhelm have a guilty conscience or did Nefi kill her in a bit of madness who performed the black sacrament on Nefi? Was it Wilhelm tying up lose ends or Nefi performing it in a rare moment of lucid thought? None of these questions have answers nothing but dead ends.
Yeah, this investigation was sick - never thought much of any of the quests involved in this web when I encountered them in the game, but having all this background knowledge makes it one of my absolute favourite quest dealings in the entirety of Skyrim!
Too bad, that it's confirmed years ago, that there actually was no meaning behind all of that and just one of the many sidequest written by random staff of Bethesda as they were noticing their lack of quest-content in the game xD Not even kidding, at some point in development, they had a quest-bowl in which everyone employed at Bethesda should throw in as many quest-notices as possible which did not need to be coherent with th world or even themselfs as they were in such urgent need of content, that they just started implementing EVERYTHING as a quest *gg*
@@Oroberus too bad that it was confirmed years ago that this is a fictional fantasy video game so literally none of it has meaning. Stop being a miserable killjoy and immerse yourself in the madness
@@coolwipp10 In this case your initial post is even more meaningless xD And this is no madness, this is just a shallow hot take. You want madness? I mean, you really want madness? Just tell me and I'll show you madness but you might not be able to every forget what I'll be showing you ;)
I can't believe this one murder mystery in a tiny town in Skyrim (a game made 12 years ago at this point) not only justified a 4 hour investigation video, but that I watched all 4 hours of this and was enthralled the whole time! No wonder Skyrim had such a magnificent impact on the gaming community, the stories like this are incredible
It's a great video but I have to say I'm disappointed with it being 4 hours after having watched it. If he hadn't repeated himself over and over again and then giving uninformative and repetitive foreshadowing throughout the entire video I think this could have easily been less than a 1 hour video, maybe even 30 minutes if he wasn't being theatrical at all. Not disappointed with the video overall but man, the amount of times he reminded me of what he just said 30 seconds ago just to remind me of it again in another 30 seconds started to give me a headache.
I'm guessing it's 1 part theatrics, 1 part lack of skill at writing concision (Sorry Camel), and 1 part the way the script is written. Like, maybe he writes it a little bit at a time so he ends up repeating things by the nature of his process. Whilst I didn't mind watching a long video like this since I like Camel's style of speech anyways, I can definitely see where it could be cut by probs about half and still have all the info. @@4thgreenburg
@@Ryxbar Its definitely a lot less concise than what he usually does, less well organised and a bit repetitive, but at the same time part of the draw of the tes detective videos is his phraseology, his unique style of narration with the excessive reiteration, protracted descriptions of basically everything, the puns, the dry humour etc thats what makes them so interesting. He is able to spin out this several hour long video on a pretty pointless story or mystery, in part through the exhaustive research hes done on the topic but also through his unique way of explaining it. I've seen other videos explaining the rorikstead theory, for example, that are like 15 minutes long which are somehow more boring and less engaging than camels hour long video despite being quarter the size.
I mean, it does kind of smack me in the gob because I'm one of those that has said that as the graphics go up the endless scavenger hunts and details that Morrowind had inevitably had to fade away.
I'm pretty sure that Wilhelm giving us the claw as a quest reward is just supposed to be a (rather dark) joke - Vindelius just dismissed the townsfolk as nosy annoyances, so he never bothered to ask if anyone had seen the claw. And this act of arrogance was what ultimately led him to his decent into madness when the claw was right in front of his nose the entire time.
I can actually sympathize with this, as I've looked for things that I need for a deadline in a great fevor that I didn't notice it was right in front of me the entire time in very few occasions.
Same, it honestly reads as a joke to me "Super smart guy dies because he arrogantly dismissed a commoner who actually had the thing he needed, but the commoner thought it was just an old trinket."
100% agree. Also why would Wilhelm give it to you if he obtained it by neferious means and it implicates him in a crime. Hes literally giving it to the person he tasked with investigating the barrow and finding the body of Reyda
@@frankwest5388 still makes no sense whatsoever. Why would you give the only inquisitive person in town proof you your involvement in a crime because you feel guilty? Theres also no evidence he feels guilty about vindelius. In fact you completing the quest and telling him vindelius was still alive would remove all guilt he potentially ever felt for vindelius
Playing through Skyrim for the first time, I ran into Narfi and did the quest for him, told him the truth about his sister and my pickpocket was high enough to leave some gold in his pocket when I left. Later on I joined the Dark Brotherhood, and they instructed me to kill him and I did it. This literally weighs on my conscience :(
Half the time I play the game I kill him before even joining the dark brotherhood. But I never talked to him so I never knew in the 11 years of playing this game that the gave you a quest
She was an herbalist. She was shot twice with arrows. Her clothes were gone, but her satchel wasn't. Her remains were bleach white in under 2 years, completely submerged in nearly freezing water, even though the herbs in her bag are still fresh enough to be useable. There's a Bosmer in town with an overly sunny disposition and a slightly ominous unused conversation with Wilhelm.
@@BlueDragonKnight77 some bosmer are known to be cannibals. their original religion venerates plantlife so much they're like reverse vegans and would rather eat men or even eachother than anything grown as a plant...
So Narfi's parents were killed by a rockslide. And the people in the town don't like the greybeards being there because of the thunderous sounds (shouts) constantly happening. The greybeards definitely shouted a rock onto Narfi's house
Keep in mind the Greybeards meditate on the words of power. They do not shout unless something gets there attention such as the power from a dragon soul being absorbed or they sense a Dragonborn.
True but shouting wise not so much. I think Ulfric shouts more during the Civil War campaign then I've heard them shout outside of saying dovakkin after killing the 1st named dragon
1:18:23 Honestly, it could just be as simple as Narfi knowing, deep down, that Reyda is dead because she's been gone for a year and no-one has seen her but he's in denial and doesn't want to *believe* it so he talks to himself and to her as if she's still alive but also accidentally acknowledges that she isn't coming back
It's also interesting that Sheo is described as the 'Sithis-shaped hole', when Cicero, a madman, is in many ways the catalyst for the reformation of the Dark Brotherhood
My god. 4 hours of deep Skyrim lore and theorising. Christmas has come early. I’m so hoping that by the end of this we’ve explored some deep and obscure aspects of the lore that are only mentioned in a single sentence of a book that was in a different game. That’s how you know it’s the good shit.
As a sudden thought, what if the assassin's story is a confession as a dark humor story? Unicorns are often associated with young maidens. Here's a thought. What if the first arrow was a headshot to kill Reyda, giving her a "horn", and the second arrow was stabbed through the throat to pin her to the bottom of the water? "I went on a moonlit stroll by the beach and stabbed a unicorn in the throat with a crochet needle." We know the Dark Brotherhood tend to like to joke and tell stories of their kills with the other guild members. Is it too much to think she'd "confess" to the murder in the form of a "cute" joke?
Thats where I thought he was gonna go with it! As soon as I heard unicorn I was like "yeah when you get an arrow through the head" Even if it isn't about Reyda, I think we're definitely onto something about the true meaning.
Maybe Klimmek somehow caused the rockslide which killed Narfi's parents. He is the only Ivarstead resident who regularly travels up the mountain. Maybe he triggered an avalanche on one of his trips and found out when he got back down that it killed two people he probably knew, considering how small the village is. It would explain him staring at the ruins, as he'd likely feel incredibly guilty. It might also be the real reason why he doesn't want to make the trip again.
@@GreatWightSparknow that fishing poles were added in the final dlc, I wonder if he stands there with one in his hand? That would help clear up guilty conscience or just fishing.
This is proof that Camel is the real heckin deal bc his love for Elder Scrolls knows no end Thank you for the great videos and hilarious puns that always have me chuckling
The assassination theory makes the most sense, and I think the Sheogorath tidbits around the town are like what's going on in Rorikstead with Clavicus Vile.
honestly the fact that there are so many questions and so many possibilities just seems like something Sheogorath would do to make you fall more into madness trying to figure out the mystery
The blessed are the phobic line also fits with Wilhelm too, you could argue that Narfi's madness is ol' sheo messing with Wilhelm too, because of his Phobia that drove him to kill Reyda, which would also lean nicely into the shared dialogue when you show Wilhelm the necklace, definitely feels like the Prince of cheese is pulling some strings.
Okay, what if all started because Wylandiah summoned Sheogorath for whatever reason, and while there the Mad God took the opportunity and told Wilhelm that Reyda is a witch, starting all that mess as a prank to spread some fun and madness around.
@kylecote7261 Knowing me, I'd end up using his soul gem to make a pair of boots that I use specifically for smithing (so, maybe like once in a bloodmoon)
Camel the effort you out in to these videos is simply incredible. 4 whole hours on one aspect of one of my favourite games? You deserve to be immortalised in the next instalment of the Elder Scrolls series. Much love!
Or at least a commemorative mod, like the one Shirley "Skyrim Grandma" Curry has. I mean, she's not dead yet, but just the fact that it exists at all is really wholesome.
Wilhelm saying Narfi's lines is almost certainly a bug, it's definitely not the first voice acting mistake in a Bethesda game - and the actors literally recorded hundreds if not thousands of lines. It's the same thing as pretty much every voice actor having a "Saadia, wake up dear" line despite it being only meant for a single character - it just ended up on other people's line sheets by accident. I believe a similar thing happened here.
I was scrolling trying to find someone pointing this out lol. Yeah, I'm not sure how the recording of the voice lines in game worked internally but there are so many in the game, it's quite easy to imagine that a voice actor was mistakenly given a line to read that they weren't meant to and overlooked, especially in such a minor side quest.
@@namehere578 on its own certainly, but it's also the coincidence of the script checking for dead characters and the coincidence of mis assigning the locket reveal and line response on top of that. if it was a mistake to be assigned it is more then likely a kind of programmers Freudian slip. A programmer who would be reviewing the storyboard and quest line and would know the intentions. They may be overworked and don't believe in thoroughly QAing a game at BGS but they are notorious for very subtle clues, buried storytelling and coincidences to lead people down the path. They also like the narrative nods and winks used in films like the usual suspects such as the character name Verbal Kent and the meaning of Kaiser Soze (I'll check spelling later) both alluding to a person who speaks too much.
I like how Camel says "they've gone through the effort of making the actor say it and make sure the subtitles are there" as if Bethesda actors have the slightest clue of who they are acting out *and* as if it wasn't an intern who connected all the ready materials (voice, text) to the falsely predetermined list.
I think the theory you put forth as the most likely is in fact the case, but Ol' Uncle Sheo is still very much involved. According to the Mad God himself, Sheogorath doesn't just represent madness, he IS madness. If someone in the Elder Scrolls has any sort of mental health issue, that's a piece of Sheogorath within them. Narfi has been in communication with and haunted by Sheogorath ever since his mental health started to decline. That's how he knows things that he shouldn't. That's why he behaves the way he does. He carries the Mad God within him as all madmen of Mundus do.
One thing I can definitively say is that Narfi mining the mountain is a coincidence. Mining nodes for stone didn't exist until the Hearthfire DLC released, so you could mine stone to build your house with. So at the time of vanilla release, Narfi had no stone mining area behind his house. NPCs just have a tendency to interact with crafting stations like that when they're lingering nearby.
I always assumed that the reason Wilhelm didn't find Reyda was because he looked around Geirmund's Hall, not near the town. However, I DID consider his reaction to Reyda's necklace odd, and I'd never known anything about the Wilhelm-Blackbriar connections, or his connection to the Dark Brotherhood.
Brought a tear to my eye... the effort you commited to giving Reyda justice. Imagine if real PI's or police had the same drive to solve every murder case.
@@ericdane7769 to be fair, most wouldn't read it even if they could. The sheer number of cases where murderers kept murdering after they were named to police by multiple people is absolutely insane.
It's possible Narfi simply thinks Raeda is dead because she hasn't returned to him and he thinks she would never leave him alone, and the dragonborn simply comfirms it
@234zu he can believe that as long as he doesn't know she's dead, but while believing that, he can still talk about the idea of her being dead in the clouds. He's mentally ill, he could believe she's alive one day and will come back, and the next day believe she's in the clouds
@@234zuscoutjango9 he also is very mentally ill though. It could be that the rational part of his brain knows that she is never coming back but he keeps trying and convince himself that she is.
@@lewisbeckett9598I think it’s perfectly normal for people with missing family to suspect they’re dead but still hope they’ll just pop up until they get closure like the necklace. I’ve seen enough missing people documentaries an unsolved mysteries and seen family members talk about it. Some of them just go straight realistic. But I don’t feel like the ones who want to hope are any more crazy than a religious person. It’s when confronted with proof and still being in denial that you’re starting to be ill I think. And while Narfi is mad, he is lucid enough and doesn’t seem to deny or then accuse you of killing her or stealing it from her. He seems to accept the truth and grieve when he gets the necklace. This to me shows he is lucid enough to put to rest his hopes now knowing we found her body to get the necklace. Sorry I know your comment is old. Just wanted to share my take to the convo.
@@OrysB-po1fy oh definitely, however I think the point I was trying to make was simply that his mental illness made this worse. Most people when something like this happens don't spend almost every part of their day talking about how their loved one will come back to them, they may think they will and for a while won't be able to do much other than think and talk about it but over time they would talk about it openly less. Narfi's mental illness only made this emotional state much worse for him. Im not entirely sure if that's the point I was trying to make in my previous comment, but it probably was Edit: I don't think that narfi is mad, but rather he seems to have a mental illness made worse by the traumatic experience of loosing the only person close to him
I actually wonder if the direction of the river flow might have been reversed in that area after Reyda's body was placed. Just something the devs forgot about later
My thoughts too. All the geographical cues support river flowing from the lake to the falls, there is no indication of that river flow reversal spot being a spring feeding the lake. I haven't watched the full video, but I'd at least mention possibility of this random water flow direction reversal being a bug.
I just recently was doing the CC fishing quests and noticed this weird thing that Rift's lake has a very noticeable flow... Towards nothing, and in fact away from where it should flow. Didn't realize before this video that this flow originates at exactly the most wrong spot it could, where the water is supposed to flow out of the lake xD Gods were drunk when shaping this bit of mundus
@@cheesyspace there is, but the lake flows in the same direction even past that waterfall (all the way near riften it actually still has this flow). And it for sure shouldn't originate from another outflowing river XD
Technically Wilhelm wasn't lying about the screams. Wyndelius went into the barrow, Wilhelm went to check on him, Wyndelius shook pottery, and Wilhelm Wilhelm-screamed all his way home.
I'm really into this type of long-form storytelling. This and the Auger of Dunlain videos are my favorite. I can tell how much work goes into them and I really appreciate it. Best Elder Scrolls content on youtube by a lot. Thank you so much!
I absolutely love the Auger of Dunlain video. I always tried figuring out what or who the auger was, but i never could. So it was awesome seeing Camel make a video on it
Been watching this in chunks since release and finally finished it! I think you made an excellent case for Wilhelm being responsible either directly or indirectly for both Reyda and Narfi’s death. Loved the camera work you utilized too, I can tell it took a lot of patience getting the we shots! Loved watching you edit this and loved the final product
What if Gabriella tried to carry out the Dark Brotherhood contract that the Blackbriars attempted, which was on Sivdi? She saw Reyda and thought it was Sivdi and shot her with her bow. The Dark Brotherhood thought the job was done, but they got the wrong woman. Which would make sense since the hit happened before they got a new Lisenser to hear out the Night Mother's orders. Wilhelm knows Reyda was killed by mistake in a hit that was an attempt on Sivdi, whom he's hiding. This is why he feels so guilty. Not because he killed Reyda but because he is indirectly responsible for her death by drawing an assassin to town who killed Reyda. Wilhelm puts the hit on Narfi to 1.) silence him to better protect Sivdi and 2.) Because he genuinely feels guilty and wants to put Narfi out of his misery.
always thought the screams from the barrow were part of Wyndeliuse's plot to scare the townsfolk away, demonstrating that him going inside the barrow was not safe and got him killed the very next night, but as you said it is not mentioned in the journal Also, the copied line for both Wilhelm and Narfi when showing them the necklace is the single most scary thing in the game to me, and I don't know why, it's just one of those uncanny things that give me the urge of looking behind me to make sure nothing is there when I should be alone
Yeah, and it baffles me that Arthmoor would see that and remove it as a bug in his Unofficial Patch, when it's clearly not. Someone directed two different voice actors to say the same line, exactly in the same way and there's no way it was a mistake.
yes!!! wtf was that dialogue haha. im glad it wasnt just me. very unsettling especially trying to empathise with what his state of mind must have been to blurt that out.
It’s just such a strange moment when Wilhelm says that. Truly, extremely unsettling. I think it would’ve been funny, had they shared a voice bc it would’ve obviously been a bug. But it’s the same line by another voice actor; it could just be that he was originally intended as the voice and it’s left over lines, like we saw often in Oblivion, but it doesn’t FEEL that way for some reason.
@@hkazu63 It feels like a mocking version of it in a way, but if it were intentional then surely there would be a comment or two afterwards or our player saying something. Even if he was the original va then why is it an option in the first place? considering this seems like a very weird thing to look over. Was Wilheim Narfi originally during development and they changed the scripts for the npc rather than creating a new one? Or is this just a relic of cut content?
I will never look at the Narfi, Reyda quests the same way again. Big respect to you Camel! These videos really breathe new life and intrigue into areas of the game. Even the Sheogorath stuff, whilst a bit more... Mad (I'm sorry I couldn't resist), sheds a whole new light on Wylandriah. Her character makes a lot more sense now! Also thanks for providing an explanation to that weird Narfi line from Wilhelm. I remember stumbling onto it once by accident. It was a very bizarre, dare I say scary moment. At the time I didn't know what to think, though perhaps possession of some sort sprang to mind...
This is probably the remnants of a much larger quest. That had the player investigate what happened, figure out who did it, and then what happened to her. Maybe with her necklace being in her satchel rather than on the body. Leading to the option of either just ending the quest there or investigating what actually happened to her. Considering that you're lead right to The Remains. The moment you accept the quest. Always seemed off.
Only an hour an a half in. I always wondered why Klimmek just stood there don’t think he killed Reyda but him being the guy who deliverers to the graybeards has me thinking he caused a avalanche over Narfi’s house which killed his parents. So he’s not looking at Narfi in rage but grief and regret. Maybe
From what I heard, apparently Skyrim originally was supposed to incorporate fishing mechanics (before the Creation Club thing) and Klimmek had fishing in his daily schedule. Since fishing never made it into the game and devs forgot to delete some references from his AI package, Klimmek just stares as Narfi's house for hours.
Nope. He’s a fisherman, and has an AI package for fishing. But there’s no animation. People read too much into details that already have an explanation.
I think one of the real questions is this: "What in the world is an intended clue put there by a clever developer, and what's is game engine jank or an oversight or a mistake, and how can you tell which is which given the AAA quality of Bethesda?"
Watching the video without ever having done any of these quests, my immediate thought every time the scream from the barrow has been mentioned is that Windellius showed up in town, said where he was going, and then screamed as loud as he could from the barrow to promote the rumours of a haunting.
Man, whenever I'm too sick to go to work, I binge watch your Tes detective series, and it always leaves me in a better mood. Seriously, thank you Camel
Wylandria's line "a soul siphon can hold magic fields in place" instantly made me think of how in Morrowind you could create a spell that soul trapped the player character in order to gain permanent stat buffs for a low magica cost (that stacked!). A really cool easter egg line.
I miss the spell creation of Morrowind and I really wish they'd bring it back for Elder Scrolls 6. Not only does it offer endless room for creativity and fun, it also serves as an end-game money sink which is something that Skyrim is desperately lacking.
@@jshburgess4172 unfortunately by Todd's recent interview, it almost sounds like he "justifies" removing spell creation because of balancing issues. Even though originally he stated it was because they thought Skyrim's magic was "too complex" for spell creation. Its unfortunate, but I don't think we'll be seeing spell creation anytime soon in future TES, unless I missed something.
@@lazilycatharticone4191 "Too complex"... That just makes me want to blurt out "Todd, my boy, there's mechanically and functionally very little difference between how spells work in Skyrim compared to Oblivion, and Oblivion handled spell creation just fine".
I always assumed that she was attacked by an animal and Wilhelm tried to help, but hit her instead and decided to put her out of her misery. Seeing how this affected Narfi, Wilhelm decided to put a hit on him because he wanted to put him out of his misery, but didn’t have the heart to do it himself. He could afford it since he has a business. Wilhelm could have just discarded his bow and arrows.
@@GrievousReborn But still has the problem of Wilhelm expecting her to be alive when you show the necklace. "Did you tell her..." Why would he ask that if he already knew she was dead?
You ever just be walking on the street one day, looks at the miserable hobos, and be like : “damn their lives suck, I should call the mafia goon squad to eradicate the lot of them.” ? Wait actually don’t answer that.
@@MrDMIDOV as some one who has worked in hospitality not quite but something similar happens. If there was someone outside or inside who was harmless but shouting and seeming to be a bit out of it the managers would call the police to have them taken or scared away. It’s bad for business.
Creepy irl fact I know, since Reyda's body wasn't seen floating by the village; the arrows most likely punctured her lungs. Otherwise her body would have floated due to gasses building up as she decomposed Also, due to a strong current and river wildlife, her body most likely decomposed/eaten (by fish and snails) fairly quickly Edit: Like others are saying she was most likely weighted down too. I didn't originally mention it because weights are obvious, but not many people know about the lung thing
@@jacobfreeman5444 even waited bodies have sometimes been known to basically slip from their weights and float, it's how a lot of bodies at sea have been found
Camel you’ve done it again! Created another amazing vid. I sat through the whole video once I realized you have posted it. The attention to detail in all of your vids and extremely hard work shows. Thank you Camel for all you do man.
Amazing! I love these deep dives, and 4 hours means I'm in heaven! I'm probably going to watch a few times to absorb everything. Camel is always VERY thorough in his lore dives.
I like the idea that madness and tragedy in Ivarstead is, if not caused, then amplified by the influence of Sheogorath. Maybe it made Wilhelm's distrust of witches turn into outright paranoia and obsession, I'm not sure I would otherwise buy him ordering a hit on a fellow villager. And Reyda's death is a twofer for Sheogorath, enabling him to drive Narfi mad and also torment Wilhelm with guilt. Just like I will now be eternally tormented by the mystery of that cheese wedge on the ground
Voice actor here, it seems entirely possible that Wilhelm does the "Narfi Cries" line because someone accidentally included it in the lines to record and then the actor just shrugged and recorded it, and then the editor (not knowing its an error), just included it, and it all got missed. I like the story idea, but there is a possibility it was just a mix up
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Its been 3 days since I started watching this, and I'm still currently at 3:23:52. Haven't even finished the entire video, BUT it is a very high quality video I must say. The amount of details you people found in the game is insane. For example : I didn't even realized that Narfi and Reyda's house was DIRECTLY below a cliff, WHICH could possibly be the main cause of their house's destruction. Insane, ok I gotta do my work now. BRB later.
Wow! From uncovering a secret cabal in Rorikstead, to a secret Sheogorath influence in Ivarstead! I also noticed the Loki connection with Narfi's name, thanks for mentioning that.
I have to say, I want to applaud your cinematographic skills. That giant sheogorath watching over the unknowing people of ivarsted is eerie, and that shot with him appearing gigantically behind Reyda or Narfi as the camera moves is a really fitting, terrifyingly amazing shot.
One thing that seems to have slipped by you is the fact that the contract to kill narfi has no time limit so it could have been issued before his sisters death or shortly after
I can’t appreciate enough the amount of DETAIL this man has put into this actual documentary on a mystery in one of my favorite universes. Thank you, Camel. You’re doing the Divines work here, good sir!
And here I only imagined Reyda as a teen who fell into the river and drowned or something. Good work gathering and connecting all this info! Like, damn, this video is amazing
Throughout the video you imply that Wilhelm says Narfi's line out of grief... but when I noticed it I was creeped out because I thought and still do think he does it out of ridicule. Maybe he only feigns that he cares about poor old Narfi's feelings, and still thinks it was right to kill Reyda (a witch in his eyes). So when you deliver the necklace, he just repeats his tortured line in a mocking way.
Doesn't make sense that he somehow knows the exact lines that Narfi would say before he even said it. More willing to believe it was Sheogorath messing with their heads in some way.
I think Narfi isn't a nutty guy saying nutty things. There have been cases when trauma can make someone's mind regress so I think thats what happened. Just the sheer trauma of losing your family just fucked him up to the point where his mind is regressing in order to contain the trauma. It also explains the alcohol and bad decisions can lead to being in debt. I dunno I am only an hour and 20 minutes in. much love
I have never enjoyed a lore video for any franchise more than this, this was absolutely amazing, hearing camel speak out his character's lines actually made this feel like a private eye going over a cold case
I love the Sheogorath theory xD. As strange as it is it makes a lot of sense as a possibility lol Also Narfi may have made a hit for himself and that's why he has a human heart and flesh. If you noticed he is more coherent when you come to him to kill him. And if he is expecting the dark brotherhood then it would explain why he runs even if you're silent.
I understand that the ritual is not an issue but how would a mentally ill better/drunk afford to take a hit on himself as well as facilitate the arrangement with the dark brotherhood with nobody aware of trying to intervene because he is clearly grief stricken and not thinking clearly. If he did do the ritual and the DB heard about it, where is the evidence? He is punishing himself for not doing enough, not being there, all the usual survivors guilt. If he expects assassins it could be in his paranoid and damaged mind that he is receiving his deserved punishment from the gods or whomever. No matter how much conviction and desire you may have to end your life and suffering, 99.9% of the time a person will hesitate, or try to save their life at the last minute. Survival instincts are powerful and the rush of adrenaline from the fight or flight response will cause people to act on instinct a reflex. It is all very normal behavior for this abnormal guy. Also he may be hearing voice(s) which are his tormentor and perhaps the force that in his mind has sent the DB to punish him. Trauma would have only exacerbated underlying mental illness such as schizophrenia. Hell PTSD, especially mixed with substance abuse and poor self care such as not sleeping can manifest auditory and visual hallucinations very easily. How people handle grief is not as clear cut evidence as people may think. Every person reacts differently to grief and in fact they will act differently to losing different people at different times. When you use a person's behavior as evidence for guilt it should never be used as the sole basis for your conclusion. Example She is gone because of me, I deserve to die, Its all my fault, I killed her because I didn't do X, I should have protected her, I should have been there. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME! This could be an admission of guilt or he is tormenting himself because he should have been there, if only he wasn't drunk or if he stopped her from going out or if he went and got the ingredients instead of her like she asked him to but he was to lazy or something. Or maybe he did kill her but he was in a dissociative state so he wasn't in total control of his body or mind and while he may not fully grasp his actions in the moment and it doesn't really make sense to him, he has a sense that he did it. Or He e thought he was protecting her from the demons trying to possess her by shooting them with arrows, he knows the arrows are his, he sees the body but he doesn't see the demon anymore. Or a voice instructed him that he needed to kill her to ultimately save her. He is scared and weather he is fully aware of his actions or not when he looks and sees the body he disposes it as an act of self preservation . Or perhaps he believes it wasn't really Reyna, it was someone or something else and they maybe took her away to oblivion while he was distracted but if people see this body they will think he killed the real Reyna, they weren't there, they wouldn't understand. So self preservation kicks in here as well and dump body. He may believe that the real Reyna will come back some day but comes to realize that she is gone and dead as time goes on and he starts to piece together that he did kill the real Reyna Purely based on his grief reaction I just rattled off a half dozen possible scenarios and motivations combined with possible existing mental illnes, there is no evidence either way, i just want to illustrate the folly of believing a certain behavior of a grieving person is a gotcha moment. Sure I was making quite a few leaps to illustrate the point that he can be guilty or innocent and believe he is either, or even both innocent and guilty while struggling with his grief this cognitive dissonance is going on in his head only causing his mental state to deteriorate further. Now getting sway from total speculation I don't believe that narfi killed her or intended to kill her, I don't believe he called a hit out on himself, but I do believe that his survivors guilt makes him believe that he is at least complicit if not responsible for her death and that is s simple explanation for his words and behavior. White my explanations/ examples took a lot of leaps to illustrate my point, when you see hoof prints, your should look for horses and certainly not unicorns. A clearly mentally ill beggar living in the remains of his destroyed home isn't going to go through all the steps to call in the hit not would he have the resources or connections. if he had someone do it for him there would be something pointing to that as this is a game telling a story not conspirators trying to cover up a crime so for the sake of storytelling some breadcrumbs must be left to be followed. Calling in assassins on yourself is far to elaborate and leaves too many totally unanswered questions. people with thoughts of suicide will often have ideas in their head. He could much more easily wander into a dangerous cave or pick a fight with a nasty creature or use the tried and true self suicide methods, I just don't see him going, nah none of that, I need to arrange for assassin's to kill me and punish me/end my suffering. He simply is not a high functioning or organized individual and there is no evidence pointing in this direction Sorry for rambling, it's very easy to get lost in speculation or try to connect dots that simply don't go together based on the smallest of possibilities and the biggest of leaps of faith. Now the shop keeper is high functioning and has means with resources end connections, as well as opportunity as DB meet in his establishment, so motive is the thing we need to find evidence for. He has no problem paying for others to do his dirty work, so as a kindness to narfi or to eliminate a constant reminder of his own guilt and misdeeds are reasonable motivations to call a hit on narfi by someone like him. Life is clearly cheap in Skyrim so I don't see someone being as conflicted as you or I would be to hire an assassin.
Love how Camel is using the "laws of water physics" by examining where the water mysteriously changes directions without cause without ever recognizing that it's literally impossible and *that* is what the mistake is
I checked a map of the Rift and the divergence of flows here makes sense, it's at a point of high elevation and they both flow into Eastmarch and merge eventually
I also always theorized that Wilhelm ordered the hit on Narfi, just to put the poor guy out of his misery. Seems like something that would happen in the land of Skyrim, no matter how dark it is I'd also imagine that Wilhelm's screams that he heard could have been his own, from when the pots were rattled. Wanted to hide that he got scared, keeping his pride as a nord
@@Arto257 well it isn't to discredit anything we've all theorized before. I honestly like camels explanation better, makes it seem a lot more in depth and cool. At the very least not as boring lol
Human heart, human flesh, nightshade…. Sweet mother… Narfi’s quest reward pool has access to all the ingredients for the black sacrament…. That’s something I remembered from the first time I played. Idk if you’ll mention it in the video but I’m curious to see your theories.
This is so bonkers! I found one of those arrows bobbing in the middle of the lake on my last playthrough, wondered if they meant anything, popped on to Google, and found... a four hour long video telling the sordid saga of Narfi and Reyda like they are Tristan and Isolde and you're a crazed medievalist with a new theory about their euhemerized avatars? Awesome, my man, awesome! Keep the nerd dream alive, forever.
The amount of time work that went into this is amazing. You took things that I didn't give a second thought to and expanded it into a four hour lore video of mystery and theory. Well done.
Camel I’ve been watching RUclips a long time. Your production quality and aptitude to create videos of length that hold my attention consistently blows me away. I can’t believe the effort you pour into your videos and the result is always just simply, divine. Your script writing is eloquent your video structure is sublime and your narration is scrumptious. Keep doing your thing, you’re fantastic at it.
2:04:52 - Honestly the way he said this gave me chills . You landed this one keep this as a theme. The way he continued with the next 2 minutes was deep.
The thunderous clouds and Sheogorath at the mountain reminds me of something. At least in theory, Jurgen Windcaller, founder of the Greybeards, did stuff with the Daedra when he wanted to found High Hrothgar (from my memory). This is most obvious by the fact that his name on his sarcophagus is written in Daedric, but also suggested by events in ES history. At least, that's what I remember.
I think she died on the island, and the water carried her corpse to the town's shore. The water flowing in two separate direction from the center of town is most likely a development oversight since there's no water source there, so it's physically impossible. So I think she was killed by bandits while she tried to swim back home, but they couldn't loot her body because it was carried away by the river. Also I'm still not convinced that Wilhelm's voice line wasn't recorded by accident. A single name mixup in development would have been enough for the line to be given to the wrong character's correct voice actor, and then programmed in. And it simply doesn't make any sense that Wilhelm would word for word repeat something that Narfi didn't even have a chance to say by that time in game.
Yeah, while I agree that there are a lot of interesting coincidences and whatnot, what I feel like get's forgotten a bit too often is that not everything in the game is, in fact, intentional. The voiceline in particular to me seems like "Hey, we've got this character, but don't know which voice to use for him. Can we get both of yours to see which we like?" and then later on someone accidentally added in both voice lines without paying attention to what they actually are. Same goes for random items. Changes happen in game development and they're not always 100% clean. But to be fair, I also don't feel like this is quite in the spirit of this video.
@@martinwagner9699while this is possible I do understand where camel is coming from. This wasn't a one person or two person error. Multiple people had to mess that up over months and months of development. Camel's theories are fun to ponder but like that's all they are. Something to think about. I do think it's possible it was intentional. And given the games history quite likely there was supposed to be more content that would put that dialogue in better context. But it also wouldn't surprise me if it was a multistep error.
What a FANTASTICALLY put together theory! The Sheogorath stuff seemed like a bit of a stretch to me hahahahah but all the rest, Wilhelm, Bersi, Gabriella, it's perfect. I felt like I was reading an Agatha Christie novel as it all came together in the end! Brilliant work, looking forward to the next installment in the series!!
You could certainly argue that the Sheogorath stuff is a stretch or not relevant, but you gotta admit there are some pretty big coincidences that suggests ivorstead is one of Sheo's current play things. The talk of clouds, the link to greenmote, the reference to the syndelius gatharian from shivering isles, and the Narfi's behaviour relating to Sheo's version of the beatitudes, just to name a few It could have been selection bias from Camel, but I think there was a lot more thought put into this mystery than meets the eyes. If the devs put so much effort into these small details, it kinda makes me wonder where all that talent when when they were making the plethora of mediocre main and guild quests haha!
Small note: you *could* say that Narfi's descent into madness is *also* driving Wilhelm mad and that would explain why he repeats what Narfi says with the necklace being found. More cheese for Sheogorath being involved. ;)
I don’t know if I read this somewhere or what, but I was always under the impression that draugr are created as guardians of ancient tombs when people spend a long time in those tombs, so Windelius is beginning to become a draugr from spending so much time in the barrow
Thanks for the video!! Narfi, for a long time, has been one of my favorite NPCs in the game. Seeing the state he's in, and knowing fragments of his story, is gut wrenching
This extended movie of a video is 4 months of work, be sure to let me know what you think about this insane rabbit hole of intrigue, information and mystery! Looking forward to your thoughts. PS: I’d 100% suggesting watching the video through then giving me your full thoughts! I did my best to cover everything ❤
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Elder Scrolls Detective - goo.gl/ah5OBI
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00:00 - Intro
00:03:03 - Town Of Ivarstead
00:05:00 - Narfi The Beggar
00:06:12 - Straw That Broke
00:07:03 - Finding Reyda's Skeleton
00:11:04 - Contract: Kill Narfi
00:14:51 - What We Actually Know
00:15:32 - Two Iron Arrows
00:19:25 - Water Current
00:23:26 - Who Dun It & Why
00:22:44 - An Accident?
00:24:17 - Animals & Creatures
00:24:35 - Temba-Wide Arm Bear Problem
00:25:11 - Stormcloak Killing Troll
00:27:31 - Was It A Hunting Accident
00:29:49 - Treasure Hunters
00:30:49 - Town Guards
00:31:25 - Bandit's
00:32:25 - Vampires
00:33:45 - Venarus Vulpin
00:37:05 - Reyda A Soldier?
00:37:56 - Calendar
00:39:48 - Faked Death
00:40:16 - Villagers Hate Ivarstead
00:42:00 - Necklace
00:42:51 - Reyda Killed Narfu
00:43:20 - Reyda A Witch
00:43:59 - Narfi Rarest Ingredients
00:47:29 - Master Alchemist
00:48:31 - Satchel Rare Items
00:49:28 - Secret Workshop
00:50:29 - Abandoned Alchemist's Shack
00:56:38 - Where Is Reyda?
00:57:06 - Orphan Rock Coven
00:59:26 - Fish Gift
01:02:30 - Hagraven Killed Reyda
01:03:33 - Popular Community Theories
01:04:06 - Narfi Killed His Sister
01:06:07 - Mental Trauma
01:06:32 - Narfi Knows She's Dead
01:07:06 - Heaven In Clouds
01:08:54 - Narfi Innocent
01:09:16 - Narfi Harmless
01:10:06 - Goodbye Mother & Father
01:11:03 - Narf's House Ruined
01:11:48 - Avalanche
01:15:16 - Townsfolk Called Narfi's Assassination
01:16:02 - Werewolf & Moon
01:18:31 - Why Was Narfi Killed?
01:18:45 - Narfi Owed Money
01:20:40 - Stealing From Neighbours
01:22:55 - Klimmek Death Stares / Fishing
01:25:11 - Joffthor Hidden Code
01:27:41 - Bigger Cut Quest
01:29:22 - Wilhelm Master Deceiver
01:31:21 - Comforting Narfi
01:32:33 - Wilhelm 200 IQ Lying
01:33:36 - Geirmund's Hall Island
01:36:05 - Wilhelm Loved Reyda
01:36:39 - The Merciful Innkeeper
01:37:10 - Two Inns Of Ivarstead
01:39:47 - The Ghost Haunting Ivarstead
01:41:15 - Treasure Hunter Wyndelius Gatharian
01:44:16 - Wyndelius' Journal
01:47:38 - Sapphire Dragon Claw Wyldelius Sends Insane
01:48:25 - Wilhelm Sneaking Around Barrow
01:49:23 - Guardian Of Shroud Hearth Barrow
01:50:39 - Jakalor The Draugr Warlock
01:52:35 - Wyndelius Kill Reyda
01:55:10 - Screams In Night
01:57:58 - Wilhelm Screams
01:59:38 - Wilhelm Repeating Narfi's Dialogue
02:03:04 - Cursed Necklace
02:03:30 - Wilhelm Immense Guilt
02:05:15 - Wilhelm Working With Reyda
02:06:04 - Wilhelm Had The Claw
02:07:20 - Wilhelm & Bersi Selling Nordic Treasure
02:08:29 - Why So Many Buckets?
02:09:19 - Barrow Victim
02:10:15 - Why Does Wilhelm Give Us The Claw?
02:12:31 - How Did Wilehlm Get The Claw?
02:13:45 - Reyda Lived At Vilemyr Inn
02:14:48 - Wilhelm Used Reyda As Theif
02:15:33 - Reyda Used An Invisibility Potion
02:16:54 - Wilhelm & The Cart
02:18:02 - Why Did Wilhelm Want Reyda Dead?
02:19:39 - Wilhelm Hates Magic Users
02:20:56 - Book Herbane's Beastiary: Hagravens
02:22:18 - Wilhelm Be Sussin'
02:23:09 - Follow Arrows Truth
02:25:47 - True Dark Nature Of Wilehlm
02:26:25 - Dark Brotherhood Killed Reyda
02:26:58 - Romlyn Dreth Illegal Mead
02:29:53 - Lynly Star-Sung In Hiding
02:32:50 - Where Is Svidi
02:34:41 - Lynly & Bersi
02:36:45 - Rift Banner Easter Egg
02:38:23 - Lynly Paying Wilhelm
02:40:19 - Valuable Gems
02:42:16 - Wilhelm Pays Assassinations
02:42:22 - The Black Sacrament
02:45:05 - Maven Black-Briar Black Sacrament
02:46:28 - Vilemyr Inn Dark Brotherhood Meeting
02:47:23 - Wilhelm Guilty
02:48:54 - Wilhelm's Mental Torture
02:50:07 - Wilhelm Galaxy Brain Plots
02:51:24 - Which Dark Brotherhood Assassin?
02:52:10 - Gabriella Uses A Bow
02:53:09 - Gabriella Sneaking Goddess
02:54:22 - Gabriella Uses Iron Arrows
02:54:44 - Unicorn
02:55:46 - Gabriella Hiding Bodies In Water
02:56:14 - The Apex
02:59:04 - Gabriella Whiterun & Markarth Skeletons
02:59:48 - Reyda Killed By Accident
03:03:11 - Welcome To The Madhouse
03:04:00 - Court Wizard Wylandriah
03:08:27 - Request To The College Of Winterhold
03:09:43 - Greenmote
03:11:36 - How Does She Know
03:12:54 - Callipers Easter Egg
03:13:50 - Wylandriah Whorships Sheogorath
03:15:15 - Wylandriah Was Reyda's Mentor
03:17:29 - Fellstar Farm Cheese Prince
03:18:40 - Butterflies Of Sheogorath
03:20:18 - Butterfly Bug In A Jar
03:22:50 - Fellstar Farm / Fallen Stars / Aetherial Fragments
03:24:12 - The Mad Star / Fell Star
03:26:34 - The Purities Of Mania
03:30:58 - Stars All Over Ivsatsyead
03:31:31 - Sheogorath Invents Music
03:32:37 - Sheogorath Killed Reyda With A Crossbow
03:33:24 - Sithis Shaped Hole
03:34:23 - Syndelius Gatharian Sent Mad With Keys
03:36:50 - Thunder On The Mountain
03:42:53 - Loki Norse Mythology
03:46:01 - Sheogorath Kissed
03:53:50 - Recap
04:04:16 - Outro
Been watching any 20 hr skyrim videos recently?
I don't think Camel has discovered the mystical wonder of a part 2
here is my thought: you based your entire 4 hour video on developers messing up water flow of a river.
considering its bethesda that made fall out 76....thats the most likely thing that happens
Sheo and I were talking, and he said it was hilarious how just turning up the volumn on Narfi drove a whole village mad. Then he threw a wedge of cheddar at me and asked why I was still there. Cheers
Subliminal Sheogorath
A "who called the hit" series would be really cool actually, where you investigate the contracts Nazir gives you and why someone would have wanted them carried out
Maven Black-Brier would be 90% of the clients though.
Yes please!
We do know that the woman who is a minor in Dawnstar has her bounty called by the man minor in Dawnstae. They used to be maried and divorsed, the man is happy to get rid of his only competetor and just estactic to have her dead at all
@@theprinceofawesomeness *miner. The way you spelled it TOTALLY changes the meaning.
Yesss
Call Camel a dwemer the way he grinds and disappears
Haha I’ll take that as a massive compliment
@@Camelworks indeed. Well done Camel this is amazing keep it up ❤️
HA HA
Damn 💀💀💀
@@Camelworks Kamelwrkngthram
I think the necklace being in the bag is due to the devs making Reyda's skeleton an immovable object, instead of a lootable skeleton which typically has buoyancy.
This is true, but they also could have done that and then also made it a static container, as they regularly do with furniture inside houses.
Truly the greatest question of Bethesda games. Intentional detail or limit of the game
@@normalhuman9878 or deadlines, or not enough disk space given skyrim was built to be stored on a dvd for the x360
@@MrOsmodeus Or laziness. This is the big B after all.
IDK why but when I found it I was like 'oh she put it in here so it wouldn't get in the water while she was swimming' just assumed the bag was waterproof
A four hour video dissecting a mystery that has never crossed my mind once. This is why I love Camelworks
I’m 54 minutes in and just realised it’s 4 hours long. Wtf. Haha (I’d just started a new skyrim character a few days ago with the new anniversary stuff to try out) I came across this quest again with Reyda but couldn’t remember if I’d finished it and found her killer or not. So this video got recommended to me and my god it’s more than I bargained for 😂
Great channel. Reminds me of that one six hour review of Thrillville: Off The Rails from a few years ago.
I was the opposite the second I realized it looked like her body was dumped under that bridge I started asking questions that have no definitive answer. Does Wilhelm have a guilty conscience or did Nefi kill her in a bit of madness who performed the black sacrament on Nefi? Was it Wilhelm tying up lose ends or Nefi performing it in a rare moment of lucid thought? None of these questions have answers nothing but dead ends.
Yeah, this investigation was sick - never thought much of any of the quests involved in this web when I encountered them in the game, but having all this background knowledge makes it one of my absolute favourite quest dealings in the entirety of Skyrim!
I played Skyrim on day one and I was like "who? What? 4 hours?".
I love that you were able to weave a perfectly believable and complete theory on who killed Reyda, and then jumped off a cliff into complete madness
That's why we love Camel. No stone left un-jumped from!
Too bad, that it's confirmed years ago, that there actually was no meaning behind all of that and just one of the many sidequest written by random staff of Bethesda as they were noticing their lack of quest-content in the game xD
Not even kidding, at some point in development, they had a quest-bowl in which everyone employed at Bethesda should throw in as many quest-notices as possible which did not need to be coherent with th world or even themselfs as they were in such urgent need of content, that they just started implementing EVERYTHING as a quest *gg*
@@Oroberus too bad that it was confirmed years ago that this is a fictional fantasy video game so literally none of it has meaning. Stop being a miserable killjoy and immerse yourself in the madness
@@coolwipp10 In this case your initial post is even more meaningless xD
And this is no madness, this is just a shallow hot take.
You want madness?
I mean, you really want madness?
Just tell me and I'll show you madness but you might not be able to every forget what I'll be showing you ;)
@@Oroberus im having trouble deciding if this is more r/IAmVerySmart or r/IAmVeryBadass...
I can't believe this one murder mystery in a tiny town in Skyrim (a game made 12 years ago at this point) not only justified a 4 hour investigation video, but that I watched all 4 hours of this and was enthralled the whole time! No wonder Skyrim had such a magnificent impact on the gaming community, the stories like this are incredible
It's a great video but I have to say I'm disappointed with it being 4 hours after having watched it. If he hadn't repeated himself over and over again and then giving uninformative and repetitive foreshadowing throughout the entire video I think this could have easily been less than a 1 hour video, maybe even 30 minutes if he wasn't being theatrical at all. Not disappointed with the video overall but man, the amount of times he reminded me of what he just said 30 seconds ago just to remind me of it again in another 30 seconds started to give me a headache.
I'm guessing it's 1 part theatrics, 1 part lack of skill at writing concision (Sorry Camel), and 1 part the way the script is written. Like, maybe he writes it a little bit at a time so he ends up repeating things by the nature of his process. Whilst I didn't mind watching a long video like this since I like Camel's style of speech anyways, I can definitely see where it could be cut by probs about half and still have all the info. @@4thgreenburg
@@Ryxbar Its definitely a lot less concise than what he usually does, less well organised and a bit repetitive, but at the same time part of the draw of the tes detective videos is his phraseology, his unique style of narration with the excessive reiteration, protracted descriptions of basically everything, the puns, the dry humour etc thats what makes them so interesting. He is able to spin out this several hour long video on a pretty pointless story or mystery, in part through the exhaustive research hes done on the topic but also through his unique way of explaining it. I've seen other videos explaining the rorikstead theory, for example, that are like 15 minutes long which are somehow more boring and less engaging than camels hour long video despite being quarter the size.
I mean, it does kind of smack me in the gob because I'm one of those that has said that as the graphics go up the endless scavenger hunts and details that Morrowind had inevitably had to fade away.
I'm pretty sure that Wilhelm giving us the claw as a quest reward is just supposed to be a (rather dark) joke - Vindelius just dismissed the townsfolk as nosy annoyances, so he never bothered to ask if anyone had seen the claw. And this act of arrogance was what ultimately led him to his decent into madness when the claw was right in front of his nose the entire time.
I can actually sympathize with this, as I've looked for things that I need for a deadline in a great fevor that I didn't notice it was right in front of me the entire time in very few occasions.
Same, it honestly reads as a joke to me
"Super smart guy dies because he arrogantly dismissed a commoner who actually had the thing he needed, but the commoner thought it was just an old trinket."
100% agree. Also why would Wilhelm give it to you if he obtained it by neferious means and it implicates him in a crime. Hes literally giving it to the person he tasked with investigating the barrow and finding the body of Reyda
@@big_pingu he has committed murder for it, and according to this theory that murder has haunted him.
So, he hands the cursed item away
@@frankwest5388 still makes no sense whatsoever. Why would you give the only inquisitive person in town proof you your involvement in a crime because you feel guilty? Theres also no evidence he feels guilty about vindelius. In fact you completing the quest and telling him vindelius was still alive would remove all guilt he potentially ever felt for vindelius
Playing through Skyrim for the first time, I ran into Narfi and did the quest for him, told him the truth about his sister and my pickpocket was high enough to leave some gold in his pocket when I left. Later on I joined the Dark Brotherhood, and they instructed me to kill him and I did it. This literally weighs on my conscience :(
It's a game
@@Ransetsu Your actions always say something about you.
Half the time I play the game I kill him before even joining the dark brotherhood. But I never talked to him so I never knew in the 11 years of playing this game that the gave you a quest
@@Ransetsu You've never felt bad about a choice you've made in a game? Has media never affected you emotionally?
@@ChangedMyNameFinally69 Not that I can recall. It isn't real.
She was an herbalist.
She was shot twice with arrows.
Her clothes were gone, but her satchel wasn't.
Her remains were bleach white in under 2 years, completely submerged in nearly freezing water, even though the herbs in her bag are still fresh enough to be useable.
There's a Bosmer in town with an overly sunny disposition and a slightly ominous unused conversation with Wilhelm.
She was an herbalist
She was shot twice with arrows
Can I make it any more obvious
So what, you are implying that she was _eaten_ ?
@@BlueDragonKnight77 some bosmer are known to be cannibals. their original religion venerates plantlife so much they're like reverse vegans and would rather eat men or even eachother than anything grown as a plant...
So Narfi's parents were killed by a rockslide. And the people in the town don't like the greybeards being there because of the thunderous sounds (shouts) constantly happening. The greybeards definitely shouted a rock onto Narfi's house
That would actually make a lot of sense considering Narfi's house and village is right underneath the Greybeard's monastery.
@@sissysovereign1294 nah, High Hrothgar is on the northern slope of the mountain, while Ivarstead is under the eastern side
Keep in mind the Greybeards meditate on the words of power. They do not shout unless something gets there attention such as the power from a dragon soul being absorbed or they sense a Dragonborn.
@@venk4057 they whisper every time dragonborn greets them and that causes noticeable vibrations of the mountain 😅
True but shouting wise not so much. I think Ulfric shouts more during the Civil War campaign then I've heard them shout outside of saying dovakkin after killing the 1st named dragon
1:18:23 Honestly, it could just be as simple as Narfi knowing, deep down, that Reyda is dead because she's been gone for a year and no-one has seen her but he's in denial and doesn't want to *believe* it so he talks to himself and to her as if she's still alive but also accidentally acknowledges that she isn't coming back
That's my opinion as well
Maybe the fact that now he's all alone in the world broke him and drove him mad in order to cope with it.
Exactly what I was thinking, actually liked it as a nuance to Narfi's character creation
The diedra of madness says the those are made can gain insight to the truths of the world, I think that is a more plausible thing
It's also interesting that Sheo is described as the 'Sithis-shaped hole', when Cicero, a madman, is in many ways the catalyst for the reformation of the Dark Brotherhood
Yea I have my day off why not
Same bro my thoughts exactly
Yeah I need to listen to something at work why not.
Hey I had nothing to do at work today so why not
@@baileycunningham8429 exactly
Yeah work my day have why off
My god. 4 hours of deep Skyrim lore and theorising. Christmas has come early. I’m so hoping that by the end of this we’ve explored some deep and obscure aspects of the lore that are only mentioned in a single sentence of a book that was in a different game. That’s how you know it’s the good shit.
And ideally the different game should be, like, Blades.
Can’t tell if this is sarcastic 😂
@@GhostShadow1030 Nope, no sarcasm here, just genuine enthusiasm lol 😂
I just listened to the whole video but only realised it was 4 hours after reading your comment and checking
I mean props to camel for the writing this. Hands down, amazing how he turned practically nothing into 4 hours. But you could also call it "reaching".
As a sudden thought, what if the assassin's story is a confession as a dark humor story? Unicorns are often associated with young maidens. Here's a thought. What if the first arrow was a headshot to kill Reyda, giving her a "horn", and the second arrow was stabbed through the throat to pin her to the bottom of the water? "I went on a moonlit stroll by the beach and stabbed a unicorn in the throat with a crochet needle." We know the Dark Brotherhood tend to like to joke and tell stories of their kills with the other guild members. Is it too much to think she'd "confess" to the murder in the form of a "cute" joke?
Also, wasn't the last unicorn killed in the the Hircine daedric quest in Oblivion?
Thats where I thought he was gonna go with it! As soon as I heard unicorn I was like "yeah when you get an arrow through the head"
Even if it isn't about Reyda, I think we're definitely onto something about the true meaning.
Maybe Klimmek somehow caused the rockslide which killed Narfi's parents. He is the only Ivarstead resident who regularly travels up the mountain. Maybe he triggered an avalanche on one of his trips and found out when he got back down that it killed two people he probably knew, considering how small the village is. It would explain him staring at the ruins, as he'd likely feel incredibly guilty. It might also be the real reason why he doesn't want to make the trip again.
What a story, Mark! I really think he's just supposed to be fishing there, and the dev's just didn't flesh it out. Not even a net!
I love this theory!
@@GreatWightSparknow that fishing poles were added in the final dlc, I wonder if he stands there with one in his hand? That would help clear up guilty conscience or just fishing.
@@fnfal763 I doubt they bothered. Bethesda aren't really into correcting their mistakes, just trying not to make the same ones in the next game.
@@fnfal763 He doesn’t.
Some of us were there during the video editing. Please tell everyone you know about this video and share it everywhere because he deserves it.
The 500 hour editing stream 😂
@@Camelworks Holy Hindu cow 500 hours, that's half a playthrough. I tip my fedora to you good sir.
I was there. It was Sooo long. Hello camel from smiling darkness if you remember me
Also was there, it’s nice relaxing content, just like the end result!
This is proof that Camel is the real heckin deal bc his love for Elder Scrolls knows no end
Thank you for the great videos and hilarious puns that always have me chuckling
Speaking of Sheogorath's influence, a 4hr video about Narfi and Reyda is pure madness! Appreciate the content, you absolute mad lad.
Born too late to explore the earth,
Too early to explore space,
Just in time to witness the elder scrolls detective series.
Bless you, Camel
I mean, the ocean exists. But f*ck that, WE HAVE SKYRIM TO EXPLORE
I’m not convinced humanity is going to exist long enough to explore space so i’m pretty stoked about things as they are. 😂
@Malkontent1003 most of the ocean floor is mapped though, the 4% we explored is the actual volume of the ocean
@@East16 Oh, I wasn't saying that. I was talking about sailing.
@@Malkontent1003 satalite has already seen the surface of the water too
The assassination theory makes the most sense, and I think the Sheogorath tidbits around the town are like what's going on in Rorikstead with Clavicus Vile.
What's going on in roriksted, concerning Clavicus Vile?
@@stevenross6164 There's an older Elder Scrolls Detective video on it, you gotta watch it, it's great and really interesting.
The alchemist shack is connected to evergreen grove where you find alchemist note 2 and the alchemist himself who was a dunmer.
honestly the fact that there are so many questions and so many possibilities just seems like something Sheogorath would do to make you fall more into madness trying to figure out the mystery
Sheogorath and Mephala sipping tea together, watching Camel typing furiously away with 500 wiki tabs open
The blessed are the phobic line also fits with Wilhelm too, you could argue that Narfi's madness is ol' sheo messing with Wilhelm too, because of his Phobia that drove him to kill Reyda, which would also lean nicely into the shared dialogue when you show Wilhelm the necklace, definitely feels like the Prince of cheese is pulling some strings.
genius and I believe this to be wholly true
Okay, what if all started because Wylandiah summoned Sheogorath for whatever reason, and while there the Mad God took the opportunity and told Wilhelm that Reyda is a witch, starting all that mess as a prank to spread some fun and madness around.
Hearing Narfi speak always makes me sad. Such a completely broken man. I can never kill Narfi if I join the Dark Brotherhood😢
Black Soul Gem, so you can take him with you. 🫡
@kylecote7261 Knowing me, I'd end up using his soul gem to make a pair of boots that I use specifically for smithing (so, maybe like once in a bloodmoon)
@aaronhines3335 in that case, I suggest nazeem.
@@kylecote7261 I would never sully my boots with something so pathetic as Nazeem
@aaronhines3335 this makes me want to collect npcs I deem annoying into a gem collection
Camel the effort you out in to these videos is simply incredible. 4 whole hours on one aspect of one of my favourite games? You deserve to be immortalised in the next instalment of the Elder Scrolls series. Much love!
I really hope they have an item named Random Leveled Lute with a reference to him on it
Or at least a commemorative mod, like the one Shirley "Skyrim Grandma" Curry has.
I mean, she's not dead yet, but just the fact that it exists at all is really wholesome.
Wilhelm saying Narfi's lines is almost certainly a bug, it's definitely not the first voice acting mistake in a Bethesda game - and the actors literally recorded hundreds if not thousands of lines.
It's the same thing as pretty much every voice actor having a "Saadia, wake up dear" line despite it being only meant for a single character - it just ended up on other people's line sheets by accident. I believe a similar thing happened here.
I was scrolling trying to find someone pointing this out lol. Yeah, I'm not sure how the recording of the voice lines in game worked internally but there are so many in the game, it's quite easy to imagine that a voice actor was mistakenly given a line to read that they weren't meant to and overlooked, especially in such a minor side quest.
@@namehere578 on its own certainly, but it's also the coincidence of the script checking for dead characters and the coincidence of mis assigning the locket reveal and line response on top of that. if it was a mistake to be assigned it is more then likely a kind of programmers Freudian slip. A programmer who would be reviewing the storyboard and quest line and would know the intentions. They may be overworked and don't believe in thoroughly QAing a game at BGS but they are notorious for very subtle clues, buried storytelling and coincidences to lead people down the path. They also like the narrative nods and winks used in films like the usual suspects such as the character name Verbal Kent and the meaning of Kaiser Soze (I'll check spelling later) both alluding to a person who speaks too much.
My favorite example is the classic Oblivion “… wait, let me do that one again…”
I like how Camel says "they've gone through the effort of making the actor say it and make sure the subtitles are there" as if Bethesda actors have the slightest clue of who they are acting out *and* as if it wasn't an intern who connected all the ready materials (voice, text) to the falsely predetermined list.
what i thought
Skyrim devs: "Yup. We *absolutely* thought about ALL of that!"
Exactly what I think whenever a massive elaborate theory gets created 😂
I think the theory you put forth as the most likely is in fact the case, but Ol' Uncle Sheo is still very much involved. According to the Mad God himself, Sheogorath doesn't just represent madness, he IS madness. If someone in the Elder Scrolls has any sort of mental health issue, that's a piece of Sheogorath within them. Narfi has been in communication with and haunted by Sheogorath ever since his mental health started to decline. That's how he knows things that he shouldn't. That's why he behaves the way he does. He carries the Mad God within him as all madmen of Mundus do.
This makes me think about Cicero. He serves Sithis but is clearly mad, to some degree.
This comment needs more attention :D
@@JEMRockermaybe that's got something to do with the sithis shaped hole
One thing I can definitively say is that Narfi mining the mountain is a coincidence. Mining nodes for stone didn't exist until the Hearthfire DLC released, so you could mine stone to build your house with. So at the time of vanilla release, Narfi had no stone mining area behind his house. NPCs just have a tendency to interact with crafting stations like that when they're lingering nearby.
I always assumed that the reason Wilhelm didn't find Reyda was because he looked around Geirmund's Hall, not near the town. However, I DID consider his reaction to Reyda's necklace odd, and I'd never known anything about the Wilhelm-Blackbriar connections, or his connection to the Dark Brotherhood.
Brought a tear to my eye... the effort you commited to giving Reyda justice. Imagine if real PI's or police had the same drive to solve every murder case.
Imagine the police could open the creation kit to look at the code that determined the criminal's behaviour ;-)
@@ericdane7769 "Hmmm he has the Hired Killer tag..." xD
@@ouroboros6125 that's too good XD
He should BE a PI !
@@ericdane7769 to be fair, most wouldn't read it even if they could. The sheer number of cases where murderers kept murdering after they were named to police by multiple people is absolutely insane.
It's possible Narfi simply thinks Raeda is dead because she hasn't returned to him and he thinks she would never leave him alone, and the dragonborn simply comfirms it
But he believes that Raeda will come back to him
@234zu he can believe that as long as he doesn't know she's dead, but while believing that, he can still talk about the idea of her being dead in the clouds. He's mentally ill, he could believe she's alive one day and will come back, and the next day believe she's in the clouds
@@234zuscoutjango9 he also is very mentally ill though. It could be that the rational part of his brain knows that she is never coming back but he keeps trying and convince himself that she is.
@@lewisbeckett9598I think it’s perfectly normal for people with missing family to suspect they’re dead but still hope they’ll just pop up until they get closure like the necklace. I’ve seen enough missing people documentaries an unsolved mysteries and seen family members talk about it. Some of them just go straight realistic. But I don’t feel like the ones who want to hope are any more crazy than a religious person. It’s when confronted with proof and still being in denial that you’re starting to be ill I think. And while Narfi is mad, he is lucid enough and doesn’t seem to deny or then accuse you of killing her or stealing it from her. He seems to accept the truth and grieve when he gets the necklace. This to me shows he is lucid enough to put to rest his hopes now knowing we found her body to get the necklace.
Sorry I know your comment is old. Just wanted to share my take to the convo.
@@OrysB-po1fy oh definitely, however I think the point I was trying to make was simply that his mental illness made this worse. Most people when something like this happens don't spend almost every part of their day talking about how their loved one will come back to them, they may think they will and for a while won't be able to do much other than think and talk about it but over time they would talk about it openly less. Narfi's mental illness only made this emotional state much worse for him.
Im not entirely sure if that's the point I was trying to make in my previous comment, but it probably was
Edit: I don't think that narfi is mad, but rather he seems to have a mental illness made worse by the traumatic experience of loosing the only person close to him
¡Gracias!
I actually wonder if the direction of the river flow might have been reversed in that area after Reyda's body was placed. Just something the devs forgot about later
My thoughts too. All the geographical cues support river flowing from the lake to the falls, there is no indication of that river flow reversal spot being a spring feeding the lake. I haven't watched the full video, but I'd at least mention possibility of this random water flow direction reversal being a bug.
I just recently was doing the CC fishing quests and noticed this weird thing that Rift's lake has a very noticeable flow... Towards nothing, and in fact away from where it should flow. Didn't realize before this video that this flow originates at exactly the most wrong spot it could, where the water is supposed to flow out of the lake xD
Gods were drunk when shaping this bit of mundus
Yeah, him not considering thta it was a clear bug was VERY surprising. It led him on kind of a long wrong lead
Isnt there a waterfall near geirmunds hall ? So the river flow/stream should be correct.
@@cheesyspace there is, but the lake flows in the same direction even past that waterfall (all the way near riften it actually still has this flow). And it for sure shouldn't originate from another outflowing river XD
Technically Wilhelm wasn't lying about the screams. Wyndelius went into the barrow, Wilhelm went to check on him, Wyndelius shook pottery, and Wilhelm Wilhelm-screamed all his way home.
Thank you as always Camel.
May Talos guide you!
I'm really into this type of long-form storytelling. This and the Auger of Dunlain videos are my favorite. I can tell how much work goes into them and I really appreciate it. Best Elder Scrolls content on youtube by a lot. Thank you so much!
I absolutely love the Auger of Dunlain video. I always tried figuring out what or who the auger was, but i never could. So it was awesome seeing Camel make a video on it
Been watching this in chunks since release and finally finished it! I think you made an excellent case for Wilhelm being responsible either directly or indirectly for both Reyda and Narfi’s death. Loved the camera work you utilized too, I can tell it took a lot of patience getting the we shots! Loved watching you edit this and loved the final product
What if Gabriella tried to carry out the Dark Brotherhood contract that the Blackbriars attempted, which was on Sivdi? She saw Reyda and thought it was Sivdi and shot her with her bow. The Dark Brotherhood thought the job was done, but they got the wrong woman. Which would make sense since the hit happened before they got a new Lisenser to hear out the Night Mother's orders.
Wilhelm knows Reyda was killed by mistake in a hit that was an attempt on Sivdi, whom he's hiding. This is why he feels so guilty. Not because he killed Reyda but because he is indirectly responsible for her death by drawing an assassin to town who killed Reyda. Wilhelm puts the hit on Narfi to 1.) silence him to better protect Sivdi and 2.) Because he genuinely feels guilty and wants to put Narfi out of his misery.
Timeline doesn't match. And Narfi doesn't know about Svidi.
@@justanotheryoutubeuploader Narfi doesn't need to know who Svidi is. He just knows Reyda is dead.
always thought the screams from the barrow were part of Wyndeliuse's plot to scare the townsfolk away, demonstrating that him going inside the barrow was not safe and got him killed the very next night, but as you said it is not mentioned in the journal
Also, the copied line for both Wilhelm and Narfi when showing them the necklace is the single most scary thing in the game to me, and I don't know why, it's just one of those uncanny things that give me the urge of looking behind me to make sure nothing is there when I should be alone
Oh 100% agree. I got chills when the dialogue started. Literally horrifying
Yeah, and it baffles me that Arthmoor would see that and remove it as a bug in his Unofficial Patch, when it's clearly not. Someone directed two different voice actors to say the same line, exactly in the same way and there's no way it was a mistake.
yes!!! wtf was that dialogue haha. im glad it wasnt just me. very unsettling especially trying to empathise with what his state of mind must have been to blurt that out.
It’s just such a strange moment when Wilhelm says that. Truly, extremely unsettling. I think it would’ve been funny, had they shared a voice bc it would’ve obviously been a bug. But it’s the same line by another voice actor; it could just be that he was originally intended as the voice and it’s left over lines, like we saw often in Oblivion, but it doesn’t FEEL that way for some reason.
@@hkazu63 It feels like a mocking version of it in a way, but if it were intentional then surely there would be a comment or two afterwards or our player saying something. Even if he was the original va then why is it an option in the first place? considering this seems like a very weird thing to look over. Was Wilheim Narfi originally during development and they changed the scripts for the npc rather than creating a new one? Or is this just a relic of cut content?
I will never look at the Narfi, Reyda quests the same way again. Big respect to you Camel! These videos really breathe new life and intrigue into areas of the game. Even the Sheogorath stuff, whilst a bit more... Mad (I'm sorry I couldn't resist), sheds a whole new light on Wylandriah. Her character makes a lot more sense now!
Also thanks for providing an explanation to that weird Narfi line from Wilhelm. I remember stumbling onto it once by accident. It was a very bizarre, dare I say scary moment. At the time I didn't know what to think, though perhaps possession of some sort sprang to mind...
I know what you mean. Scary is right lol. It happened to me my first time doing the quest and I remember it freaking me out
This is probably the remnants of a much larger quest. That had the player investigate what happened, figure out who did it, and then what happened to her.
Maybe with her necklace being in her satchel rather than on the body. Leading to the option of either just ending the quest there or investigating what actually happened to her.
Considering that you're lead right to The Remains. The moment you accept the quest. Always seemed off.
Only an hour an a half in. I always wondered why Klimmek just stood there don’t think he killed Reyda but him being the guy who deliverers to the graybeards has me thinking he caused a avalanche over Narfi’s house which killed his parents. So he’s not looking at Narfi in rage but grief and regret. Maybe
From what I heard, apparently Skyrim originally was supposed to incorporate fishing mechanics (before the Creation Club thing) and Klimmek had fishing in his daily schedule.
Since fishing never made it into the game and devs forgot to delete some references from his AI package, Klimmek just stares as Narfi's house for hours.
@@dmin5782 He's just fishing with his *_mind powers._*
That's a neat theory
Nope. He’s a fisherman, and has an AI package for fishing. But there’s no animation. People read too much into details that already have an explanation.
The fact she sends us to collect her soul gem makes me feel like she has already come up with the solution we gave her and she just forgot it
I think one of the real questions is this: "What in the world is an intended clue put there by a clever developer, and what's is game engine jank or an oversight or a mistake, and how can you tell which is which given the AAA quality of Bethesda?"
I cannot believe OR accept that I just watched this for free. thank you Camel!!
Watching the video without ever having done any of these quests, my immediate thought every time the scream from the barrow has been mentioned is that Windellius showed up in town, said where he was going, and then screamed as loud as he could from the barrow to promote the rumours of a haunting.
Man, whenever I'm too sick to go to work, I binge watch your Tes detective series, and it always leaves me in a better mood.
Seriously, thank you Camel
Wylandria's line "a soul siphon can hold magic fields in place" instantly made me think of how in Morrowind you could create a spell that soul trapped the player character in order to gain permanent stat buffs for a low magica cost (that stacked!). A really cool easter egg line.
I miss the spell creation of Morrowind and I really wish they'd bring it back for Elder Scrolls 6. Not only does it offer endless room for creativity and fun, it also serves as an end-game money sink which is something that Skyrim is desperately lacking.
@@jshburgess4172 unfortunately by Todd's recent interview, it almost sounds like he "justifies" removing spell creation because of balancing issues. Even though originally he stated it was because they thought Skyrim's magic was "too complex" for spell creation.
Its unfortunate, but I don't think we'll be seeing spell creation anytime soon in future TES, unless I missed something.
That went totally over my head haha
@@lazilycatharticone4191
"Too complex"...
That just makes me want to blurt out "Todd, my boy, there's mechanically and functionally very little difference between how spells work in Skyrim compared to Oblivion, and Oblivion handled spell creation just fine".
L
camel 43 minutes in: and that's just the beginning!
me: *wringing my hands*
I always assumed that she was attacked by an animal and Wilhelm tried to help, but hit her instead and decided to put her out of her misery. Seeing how this affected Narfi, Wilhelm decided to put a hit on him because he wanted to put him out of his misery, but didn’t have the heart to do it himself. He could afford it since he has a business. Wilhelm could have just discarded his bow and arrows.
Sounds way less insane than any of camelworks theories
@@GrievousReborn But still has the problem of Wilhelm expecting her to be alive when you show the necklace.
"Did you tell her..."
Why would he ask that if he already knew she was dead?
You ever just be walking on the street one day, looks at the miserable hobos, and be like : “damn their lives suck, I should call the mafia goon squad to eradicate the lot of them.” ?
Wait actually don’t answer that.
My theory is that Narfi himself put the hit on himself because he was too depressed about Reyda's death.
@@MrDMIDOV as some one who has worked in hospitality not quite but something similar happens. If there was someone outside or inside who was harmless but shouting and seeming to be a bit out of it the managers would call the police to have them taken or scared away. It’s bad for business.
Creepy irl fact I know, since Reyda's body wasn't seen floating by the village; the arrows most likely punctured her lungs. Otherwise her body would have floated due to gasses building up as she decomposed
Also, due to a strong current and river wildlife, her body most likely decomposed/eaten (by fish and snails) fairly quickly
Edit: Like others are saying she was most likely weighted down too. I didn't originally mention it because weights are obvious, but not many people know about the lung thing
Or she was weighted. Which would suggest someone who would care if her body was found
Unfortunately, I thought of that too. I watch too many crime and missing people shows I think 🤔
Bloated rotten flesh
@@jacobfreeman5444 even waited bodies have sometimes been known to basically slip from their weights and float, it's how a lot of bodies at sea have been found
That's why punctured lungs and weights is the way to go (I swear to the Dread Father I'm just a writer!)
I watched every second of this magnum opus of the Elder Scrolls Detective series. It left me speechless. Thank you for your hard work - I loved it
Camel you’ve done it again! Created another amazing vid. I sat through the whole video once I realized you have posted it. The attention to detail in all of your vids and extremely hard work shows. Thank you Camel for all you do man.
I appreciate you reading the dialogue as if your asking the questions. Makes it more immersive and easier to listen to while at work. Great vid!
According to Google the name Astrid means 'Star' in Armenia. The daughter of Fellstar Farm is Fastrid, F-Star. Fellstar.
Amazing! I love these deep dives, and 4 hours means I'm in heaven! I'm probably going to watch a few times to absorb everything. Camel is always VERY thorough in his lore dives.
I like the idea that madness and tragedy in Ivarstead is, if not caused, then amplified by the influence of Sheogorath. Maybe it made Wilhelm's distrust of witches turn into outright paranoia and obsession, I'm not sure I would otherwise buy him ordering a hit on a fellow villager. And Reyda's death is a twofer for Sheogorath, enabling him to drive Narfi mad and also torment Wilhelm with guilt. Just like I will now be eternally tormented by the mystery of that cheese wedge on the ground
Voice actor here, it seems entirely possible that Wilhelm does the "Narfi Cries" line because someone accidentally included it in the lines to record and then the actor just shrugged and recorded it, and then the editor (not knowing its an error), just included it, and it all got missed. I like the story idea, but there is a possibility it was just a mix up
⤴️⤴️⤴️Thank you for the great love and support you have shown to my RUclips channel. Quickly send a direct message to the above username now. I have something for you. Thank you!
Its been 3 days since I started watching this, and I'm still currently at 3:23:52. Haven't even finished the entire video, BUT it is a very high quality video I must say. The amount of details you people found in the game is insane. For example : I didn't even realized that Narfi and Reyda's house was DIRECTLY below a cliff, WHICH could possibly be the main cause of their house's destruction.
Insane, ok I gotta do my work now. BRB later.
You earned a sub for sure. You kept me intrigued for 4 hours and it was great!
Wow! From uncovering a secret cabal in Rorikstead, to a secret Sheogorath influence in Ivarstead! I also noticed the Loki connection with Narfi's name, thanks for mentioning that.
Well, the cabal is BIT obvious. 😂 Literally everything else Camel has covered though, including the Reyda and Narfi mystery here. ✨
Midnight, No better time to endulge in 4 hours worth of Skyrim Lore
For me it's 11am lol
I have to say, I want to applaud your cinematographic skills. That giant sheogorath watching over the unknowing people of ivarsted is eerie, and that shot with him appearing gigantically behind Reyda or Narfi as the camera moves is a really fitting, terrifyingly amazing shot.
One thing that seems to have slipped by you is the fact that the contract to kill narfi has no time limit so it could have been issued before his sisters death or shortly after
Seems irrelevant to me.
Genuinely blown away by your ability to create masterpiece after masterpiece. Big props.
Thanks my dude! Just takes a ton of time and energy 😅
Four hour video? Definitely need a coffee for that!
Your content is soooo good. I love stuff like this. The Augur of Dunlaine was the best detective video I’ve ever seen on youtube.
Agree 💯 That video was total genius!
Facts
Yes i thought nothing could beat that video but here we r ,well done Carmel 🐫
I can’t appreciate enough the amount of DETAIL this man has put into this actual documentary on a mystery in one of my favorite universes. Thank you, Camel. You’re doing the Divines work here, good sir!
My pleasure, thanks for watching
the "there aren't enough pricks of evidence to call it a porcupine" had me dying
You forgot one more thing about Sheogorath’s potential influence in Ivarstead…
“These damn bears are driving me CRAZY!!!”
Awww shit can’t believe I missed that
@@Camelworks Sheo: “hahaha! no one expects the BEARS”
The joy I felt when you called wilhelm guilty and there was still 2 hours left 🥳
I have watched the Augur of Dunlain video at least ten times. I'm sure I'm gonna watch this video at least ten times too. Amazing work, Camel!
And here I only imagined Reyda as a teen who fell into the river and drowned or something.
Good work gathering and connecting all this info! Like, damn, this video is amazing
Throughout the video you imply that Wilhelm says Narfi's line out of grief... but when I noticed it I was creeped out because I thought and still do think he does it out of ridicule. Maybe he only feigns that he cares about poor old Narfi's feelings, and still thinks it was right to kill Reyda (a witch in his eyes). So when you deliver the necklace, he just repeats his tortured line in a mocking way.
That's what I thought too
Doesn't make sense that he somehow knows the exact lines that Narfi would say before he even said it. More willing to believe it was Sheogorath messing with their heads in some way.
Yikes that is a creepy interpretation 😬
I think Narfi isn't a nutty guy saying nutty things. There have been cases when trauma can make someone's mind regress so I think thats what happened. Just the sheer trauma of losing your family just fucked him up to the point where his mind is regressing in order to contain the trauma. It also explains the alcohol and bad decisions can lead to being in debt. I dunno I am only an hour and 20 minutes in.
much love
I have never enjoyed a lore video for any franchise more than this, this was absolutely amazing, hearing camel speak out his character's lines actually made this feel like a private eye going over a cold case
I love the Sheogorath theory xD. As strange as it is it makes a lot of sense as a possibility lol
Also Narfi may have made a hit for himself and that's why he has a human heart and flesh. If you noticed he is more coherent when you come to him to kill him. And if he is expecting the dark brotherhood then it would explain why he runs even if you're silent.
If he put the hit on himself, why does he run when the time comes?
@@calliecalamity8787 cold feet? He's mad? Acting just in case someone is watching?
I understand that the ritual is not an issue but how would a mentally ill better/drunk afford to take a hit on himself as well as facilitate the arrangement with the dark brotherhood with nobody aware of trying to intervene because he is clearly grief stricken and not thinking clearly. If he did do the ritual and the DB heard about it, where is the evidence?
He is punishing himself for not doing enough, not being there, all the usual survivors guilt. If he expects assassins it could be in his paranoid and damaged mind that he is receiving his deserved punishment from the gods or whomever. No matter how much conviction and desire you may have to end your life and suffering, 99.9% of the time a person will hesitate, or try to save their life at the last minute. Survival instincts are powerful and the rush of adrenaline from the fight or flight response will cause people to act on instinct a reflex. It is all very normal behavior for this abnormal guy.
Also he may be hearing voice(s) which are his tormentor and perhaps the force that in his mind has sent the DB to punish him. Trauma would have only exacerbated underlying mental illness such as schizophrenia. Hell PTSD, especially mixed with substance abuse and poor self care such as not sleeping can manifest auditory and visual hallucinations very easily.
How people handle grief is not as clear cut evidence as people may think. Every person reacts differently to grief and in fact they will act differently to losing different people at different times. When you use a person's behavior as evidence for guilt it should never be used as the sole basis for your conclusion.
Example
She is gone because of me, I deserve to die, Its all my fault, I killed her because I didn't do X, I should have protected her, I should have been there. IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN ME!
This could be an admission of guilt or he is tormenting himself because he should have been there, if only he wasn't drunk or if he stopped her from going out or if he went and got the ingredients instead of her like she asked him to but he was to lazy or something.
Or maybe he did kill her but he was in a dissociative state so he wasn't in total control of his body or mind and while he may not fully grasp his actions in the moment and it doesn't really make sense to him, he has a sense that he did it.
Or
He e thought he was protecting her from the demons trying to possess her by shooting them with arrows, he knows the arrows are his, he sees the body but he doesn't see the demon anymore. Or a voice instructed him that he needed to kill her to ultimately save her.
He is scared and weather he is fully aware of his actions or not when he looks and sees the body he disposes it as an act of self preservation . Or perhaps he believes it wasn't really Reyna, it was someone or something else and they maybe took her away to oblivion while he was distracted but if people see this body they will think he killed the real Reyna, they weren't there, they wouldn't understand. So self preservation kicks in here as well and dump body. He may believe that the real Reyna will come back some day but comes to realize that she is gone and dead as time goes on and he starts to piece together that he did kill the real Reyna
Purely based on his grief reaction I just rattled off a half dozen possible scenarios and motivations combined with possible existing mental illnes, there is no evidence either way, i just want to illustrate the folly of believing a certain behavior of a grieving person is a gotcha moment. Sure I was making quite a few leaps to illustrate the point that he can be guilty or innocent and believe he is either, or even both innocent and guilty while struggling with his grief this cognitive dissonance is going on in his head only causing his mental state to deteriorate further.
Now getting sway from total speculation
I don't believe that narfi killed her or intended to kill her, I don't believe he called a hit out on himself, but I do believe that his survivors guilt makes him believe that he is at least complicit if not responsible for her death and that is s simple explanation for his words and behavior. White my explanations/ examples took a lot of leaps to illustrate my point, when you see hoof prints, your should look for horses and certainly not unicorns. A clearly mentally ill beggar living in the remains of his destroyed home isn't going to go through all the steps to call in the hit not would he have the resources or connections. if he had someone do it for him there would be something pointing to that as this is a game telling a story not conspirators trying to cover up a crime so for the sake of storytelling some breadcrumbs must be left to be followed. Calling in assassins on yourself is far to elaborate and leaves too many totally unanswered questions. people with thoughts of suicide will often have ideas in their head. He could much more easily wander into a dangerous cave or pick a fight with a nasty creature or use the tried and true self suicide methods, I just don't see him going, nah none of that, I need to arrange for assassin's to kill me and punish me/end my suffering. He simply is not a high functioning or organized individual and there is no evidence pointing in this direction
Sorry for rambling, it's very easy to get lost in speculation or try to connect dots that simply don't go together based on the smallest of possibilities and the biggest of leaps of faith.
Now the shop keeper is high functioning and has means with resources end connections, as well as opportunity as DB meet in his establishment, so motive is the thing we need to find evidence for. He has no problem paying for others to do his dirty work, so as a kindness to narfi or to eliminate a constant reminder of his own guilt and misdeeds are reasonable motivations to call a hit on narfi by someone like him. Life is clearly cheap in Skyrim so I don't see someone being as conflicted as you or I would be to hire an assassin.
Love how Camel is using the "laws of water physics" by examining where the water mysteriously changes directions without cause without ever recognizing that it's literally impossible and *that* is what the mistake is
Still doesn't change how weird it is she died right outside of town
Those damned wizards at the college and their water magic!!!!
@@cadilliumyt maybe there's a volcanic vent in that one spot for some reason
it wouldn't be a Bethesda game if it wasn't broken in some way
I checked a map of the Rift and the divergence of flows here makes sense, it's at a point of high elevation and they both flow into Eastmarch and merge eventually
This is what makes subbing to camel worth it. He may take awhile, but when he posts it's always one hell of a banger.
I also always theorized that Wilhelm ordered the hit on Narfi, just to put the poor guy out of his misery. Seems like something that would happen in the land of Skyrim, no matter how dark it is
I'd also imagine that Wilhelm's screams that he heard could have been his own, from when the pots were rattled. Wanted to hide that he got scared, keeping his pride as a nord
This is always what I've figured on. As fun as it is to speculate, the simplest explanation is often the right one.
@@Arto257 well it isn't to discredit anything we've all theorized before. I honestly like camels explanation better, makes it seem a lot more in depth and cool. At the very least not as boring lol
That Inn thing just shy of an hour and forty minutes drove me nuts until its conclusion. Very inntelligently done :)
Human heart, human flesh, nightshade…. Sweet mother… Narfi’s quest reward pool has access to all the ingredients for the black sacrament…. That’s something I remembered from the first time I played. Idk if you’ll mention it in the video but I’m curious to see your theories.
maybe he found the dark sacrament and willhelm found out and had him killed before he found out it was for his sister 🤷♀️
@@stemcellwhoax maybe maybe…. We will never know….
@@stemcellwhoax Then the flesh and heart would be over a year old
Incredible work and really passionate piece of art for our beloved Skyrim. thank you for everything, it was a wild ride.
This is so bonkers! I found one of those arrows bobbing in the middle of the lake on my last playthrough, wondered if they meant anything, popped on to Google, and found... a four hour long video telling the sordid saga of Narfi and Reyda like they are Tristan and Isolde and you're a crazed medievalist with a new theory about their euhemerized avatars? Awesome, my man, awesome! Keep the nerd dream alive, forever.
The amount of time work that went into this is amazing. You took things that I didn't give a second thought to and expanded it into a four hour lore video of mystery and theory. Well done.
Camel I’ve been watching RUclips a long time. Your production quality and aptitude to create videos of length that hold my attention consistently blows me away. I can’t believe the effort you pour into your videos and the result is always just simply, divine. Your script writing is eloquent your video structure is sublime and your narration is scrumptious. Keep doing your thing, you’re fantastic at it.
2:04:52 - Honestly the way he said this gave me chills . You landed this one keep this as a theme. The way he continued with the next 2 minutes was deep.
The thunderous clouds and Sheogorath at the mountain reminds me of something. At least in theory, Jurgen Windcaller, founder of the Greybeards, did stuff with the Daedra when he wanted to found High Hrothgar (from my memory). This is most obvious by the fact that his name on his sarcophagus is written in Daedric, but also suggested by events in ES history. At least, that's what I remember.
I always felt like Wilhelm was the killer, but it was just vibes and instinct... until now. Thanks for your service!
Especially once Camel pointed out the bit about the current. That green zone starts just behind the inn.
I think she died on the island, and the water carried her corpse to the town's shore. The water flowing in two separate direction from the center of town is most likely a development oversight since there's no water source there, so it's physically impossible.
So I think she was killed by bandits while she tried to swim back home, but they couldn't loot her body because it was carried away by the river.
Also I'm still not convinced that Wilhelm's voice line wasn't recorded by accident. A single name mixup in development would have been enough for the line to be given to the wrong character's correct voice actor, and then programmed in. And it simply doesn't make any sense that Wilhelm would word for word repeat something that Narfi didn't even have a chance to say by that time in game.
Yeah, while I agree that there are a lot of interesting coincidences and whatnot, what I feel like get's forgotten a bit too often is that not everything in the game is, in fact, intentional.
The voiceline in particular to me seems like "Hey, we've got this character, but don't know which voice to use for him. Can we get both of yours to see which we like?" and then later on someone accidentally added in both voice lines without paying attention to what they actually are. Same goes for random items.
Changes happen in game development and they're not always 100% clean.
But to be fair, I also don't feel like this is quite in the spirit of this video.
@@martinwagner9699while this is possible I do understand where camel is coming from. This wasn't a one person or two person error. Multiple people had to mess that up over months and months of development.
Camel's theories are fun to ponder but like that's all they are. Something to think about. I do think it's possible it was intentional. And given the games history quite likely there was supposed to be more content that would put that dialogue in better context.
But it also wouldn't surprise me if it was a multistep error.
Some poor dev built an elaborate sibling mystery quest only for Todd Howard to shoot her with 2 arrows in play testing
Jesus Christ. This is not a video essay, this is a whole ass double feature documentary 😂😂
What a FANTASTICALLY put together theory! The Sheogorath stuff seemed like a bit of a stretch to me hahahahah but all the rest, Wilhelm, Bersi, Gabriella, it's perfect. I felt like I was reading an Agatha Christie novel as it all came together in the end! Brilliant work, looking forward to the next installment in the series!!
You could certainly argue that the Sheogorath stuff is a stretch or not relevant, but you gotta admit there are some pretty big coincidences that suggests ivorstead is one of Sheo's current play things. The talk of clouds, the link to greenmote, the reference to the syndelius gatharian from shivering isles, and the Narfi's behaviour relating to Sheo's version of the beatitudes, just to name a few
It could have been selection bias from Camel, but I think there was a lot more thought put into this mystery than meets the eyes.
If the devs put so much effort into these small details, it kinda makes me wonder where all that talent when when they were making the plethora of mediocre main and guild quests haha!
Yeah the Sheo stuff is quite whacky but also there so thought it worth mentioning
@@Camelworks I mean, he's nearby getting blitzed with dragonborn and dropping them off naked in hooker church after a hag wedding right?
Small note: you *could* say that Narfi's descent into madness is *also* driving Wilhelm mad and that would explain why he repeats what Narfi says with the necklace being found. More cheese for Sheogorath being involved. ;)
this video is amazing but i’ve watched it so many times that it’s comfort has begun to make me sleepy. videos to sleep to in a good way
Thank you so much for uploading this. I’m stuck in the hospital, just got an appendectomy. This is perfect for passing the time 😄
Hopefully this video will help take your mind off your survey for a while! Wishing you a speedy recovery
Hope you feel better! 😊💖
I hope you feel better soon! 💜
Hope u get out hospital soon mate 👍
Get better friend! I heard the Vigils of Stendarr could help with your condition
I don’t know if I read this somewhere or what, but I was always under the impression that draugr are created as guardians of ancient tombs when people spend a long time in those tombs, so Windelius is beginning to become a draugr from spending so much time in the barrow
Thanks for the video!! Narfi, for a long time, has been one of my favorite NPCs in the game. Seeing the state he's in, and knowing fragments of his story, is gut wrenching