Your thesaurus skills are becoming next level. Change could also be innovation this lost daedra could be why the elder scrolls is forever stuck in a midevil time. This may even be the lost god of the dwemer and there disappearance may be why they became atheist in a world with actual gids
Hey, I think because we can enter the warded portal to Deadlight is because we have an anuic valence. The Vestige is like a pseudo-Daedra. Daedric body, anuic aspect and mortal soul.
We know deadra can loose there power and can die it's what happened with the divines. Whatever way to do it drain the princes essence and they become mortal.
@@YOGI-kb9tgyeah because Lorkhan tricked the divines into creating Mundus in exchange for their immortality. Unless someone tricks a Daedric prince into giving up their immortality they won’t mortally die
@@YOGI-kb9tg Even then, the Divines *are* active, and only a few of them (such as Shor, Tsun, Y'ffre, etc.) are considered "dead" (and *even then*, we meet them and they are clearly able to continue thinking and acting in some way). Auriel allegedly re-ascended from his diminished mortal form at the beginning of the mortal world's history, and Morrowind features several of the other divines being active enough to manifest mortal avatars during the Imperial Cult and main questline.
@@YOGI-kb9tg The thing is, a Prince *is* their plane of Oblivion. So whoever the Prince of the plane is, they certainly still exist and have connection over it, or it wouldn’t.
As a proud owner of the camelworks elderscroll blanket I can say that it is a 10/10 blanket after acquiring the blanket I have unlocked secrets to the universe as well as a achieved chim Downside is I'm blind now but that's fine
I've always had a theory that the blindness is supposed to be trading sight for a different kind of sight that mortal minds are incapable of using unless they've achieved Chim.
I find it interesting how in the Deadlands, the stormy, lightning riddled area is called The Sever. Possibly relating to how Dagon took on the sphere of energy and melded this severed sphere of energy to himself and in-turn the Deadlands.
The concept of other lost or rather forgotten daedric princes makes the name Oblivion itself much more logical as oblivion (the word) translates to 'the state of being unaware or unconscious'. The existence of former princes now being forgotten would suggest a gradual and perhaps even natural progression, where daedric princes over time are forgotten and their powers mantled by another prince as the number of princes slowly dwindles. In the long term, this could indicate that all daedric princes either willing or unwilling, knowing or unknowing, are all bound to become forgotten and become mantled by a single entity that possesses all of the daedric traits, all at once. Interestingly, one of the two primordial entities of the Elder Scrolls universe is Anu, who is also known as Anu the Everything (all daedric traits?). Perhaps this natural progression of princes becoming forgotten ultimately leads to the "reintegration" of Anu?
maybe that is what leads to another cycle or the kalpas - the daedric princes reuniting and then falling apart again. It would def hint again to the cyclical nature of the elder scrolls
@@allanredhill8682 That is a very interesting point. The question in this scenario then becomes if the creation of a new kalpa becomes directly influenced by the sole remembered daedric prince or if the resulting entity is something else entirely?
Maybe that's what Jyggalag did (or tried to do) and that's why he's remembered as having threatened every Prince, and the eventual reintegration with Anu is why he resembles Order?
@@KonoGufo That is an interesting theory! If true, that would suggest that Jyggalag represents the reintegration of Anu, while the rest of the princes in this scenario would be fully-aware and adversarial to the reintegration, perhaps due to self-preservation?
i think a better term for a Daedra being "dead" would be "displaced", because they have been displaced to another phase of existence until they can be returned to there previous state, a great lore video as always Camel
"dead" for a Daedric Prince could be more like "comatose". Displaced or absorbed by a more powerful Prince and it's consciousness and sense of self destroyed entirely
@@thaddeushill7080metaphysical beings in TES don't require worship, nobody even worships most of the Et Ada seeing as there are thousands of Magna Ge that nobody even knows about and yet any single one of them is more powerful than an Aedra.
@@KitKatHexe now why is that....how close are thier spheres compared to others...just looking at bethesda lore shows they don't like giving us answers and CHIM makes thing a bit more complicated....i mean what has clavicus vile done he has split himself before an this is big to (me anyway) what if the dra (aedra an daedra) are only "angels" and have thier own pantheon hence.....well worship being important an my last 2 points are (this one's weak) nocturnal showing up outa nowheren(not nowhyr lel 😆) an lastly there's more then one way of "worshipping" an it changes not only on sphere (look at stendarr the racist shield...basterd) but this is my brain working an I could be very wrong an u could be right an that's what I love bout bethesda....sorry for the rant if ya read through an have a good day
In the book, ‘The Legend of Deadlight’, it describes it as being devoid of life and energy. While it does appear to have energy, could Mehrunes Dagon be suppressing/draining the planes energy as a way to keep the defeated prince subjugated? Perhaps that is why his followers maintain a presence there rather than leave it abandoned.
And it could be why the pylons in the tower are red instead of blue. Dagon is having his followers maintain them to siphon the energy from Deadlight to the Deadlands. But my slight alternative theory is that it is in fact Ithelia's former realm. And since the lore says the prince of Deadlight was defeated by Dagon the Prince of Revolution this was all part of the way Hermaeus Mora's way to remove the memory of Ithelia from the aurbis. He rewrote cosmic memory so that it was Dagon who defeated the nameless forgotten prince. He forced Dagon to mantle the energy aspect of the realm to keep a certain amount of suppression on Deadlight as well as keeping other daedra from entering via secret hidden knowledge. A contingency put in place in case of any contingencies made by Ithelia. Afterwards sealing his own memories away so the truth was not known, solidifying it as "fact" until they become unsealed.
I thought you were going to mention that Mannimarco's plan was to trap Molag Ball and take his traits as a Daedric Prince. Which reinforces your theory that both Mora and Dagon did it.
I theorize actually that Dagon's other mismatched sphere, Hope, could also be from the prince of the deadlight. Technological advancement and abundant energy feels very hopeful to me.
i felt similarly, my first thoughts were that the prince of deadlight is the prince of progress, advancement, very similar to hope, change, and ambition. perhaps these were mantled alongside energy?
@@domd nah. hope is in relation to the sphere of rebellion. IIRC, Dagon was CREATED to be the embodiment of hope by the Magne-Ge to overthrow Molag Bal and the Dreugh he ruled over as king in rebellion, as they were oppressive and held complete dominance of their world and all the beings in it. The Magne-Ge did not anticipate him becoming what he did and only sought to have him be a "savior" of last resort to those who needed it. But, as we know, he developed his own ideals, ambitions, and goals and used the conditions of his creation to further his own means. He still is the Daedric prince of hope, rebellion, chaos, and destruction but now he seeks to rebel against everything, causing chaos and destruction to fulfill his own hopes of having his ideal reality.
I'm actually guessing it's ambition. Hope breeds revolution breeds change. Revolution isn't ambitious for more, it's hope that once change comes things will be better. It also seems more in keeping with his creation myth. He was created as a weapon to otherthrow the tyrant dreg Kings, a hope for a different future. Not to supplant them, which would be ambition. However ambition and energy, especially as it relates to technology seems about right.
@@Lucky13Ravens Ambition is the opposite of revolution, but they both cause change. It fits his creation story if you take the gods at face value. A lot more of the lore makes sense if your first assumption is that every god in the elder scrolls except maybe lorkhan is a glorified scam artist, constantly trying to recoup their lost power by farming mortal souls through 'afterlives'. I do believe he was made as a weapon against the dhregs, but that doesn't mean that he was intended to be good.
@@curvingfyre6810 I didn't say good. Hope isn't inherently good. And ambition isn't evil. I don't believe his Magna-ge creation. But, they wouldn't make him with ambition, they wouldn't knowingly make a tool to slay god's with ambition as a trait, that would require an IQ less than most mortals.
So, after reading a bit. From everything I can find, Ithelia was mentioned specifically as "Fate-Changer," whereas Mora is just lord of Fate as a whole, or Master of the Tides of Fate. That sounds to me like he watches over Fate to make sure everything is flowing as it should, and that Ithelia's Fate Changing disrupted that flow, making Mora's job harder. Like he had to watch as more and more fates got changed, creating more and more potential ends and branches in fate/time, so he saw that as a threat and had to stop her.
Yeah, that makes more sense to me too. Mora is a huge asshole nerd, and he wants to know everything. A force that makes change not only possible but probable is exactly the kind of thing he would hate, because there would be things and realities he couldn’t possibly know. And he would hate that. That’s why I don’t think that that other Prince really posed any threat to reality, it just posed a threat to Mora specifically, and that’s why he went behind the others back to erase them. He isn’t a benevolent force, after all
What manifests in coldharbour was your vestige, when you absorbed the skyshard summoned by the prophet (Varen) your Aedric corporeal form was restored, allowing you to bypass the daedric protections. 53:27
This made a few interesting follow up questions come to mind 1. If when destroyed Princes have their spheres of influence transferred to their destroyer, what happened to the 4 spheres from the 4 Princes that "simultaneously died" in Fargrave? Insert "free real estate" meme 2. Given that Princes cannot be destroyed, sure seems like a very convenient way to weaken the most powerful ones is by restoring their fallen victims... I hope one of these two ideas pan out, both have great and terrible consequences.
Interesting. If they "died" simultaneously it means that their spheres are heading towards each other creating an eternal loop. This can mean that these princes are "stuck". Like the fate of the weeping angels of doctor who.
@@lighterudite it could also be that their tasks are more or less randomly distributed to other princes. The idea, the concept they represent still exist.
An interesting thing to point out about The Daedric Princes. They are, at a fundamental level, the physical manifestations of concepts. So you can't "kill" a Daedric Prince anymore than you can "kill" an idea or a belief. Thus making them forgotten, like Mora tried to do, or consuming and assimilating their concepts, like Dagon may have done, would be the only way to eliminate their ability to manifest. And the fact that Deadlight still exists and is now a part of Dagon's sphere is evidence for the idea that he likely consumed the fallen prince after defeating them. Because if The Prince of Deadlight was truly destroyed then Deadlight itself would have been erased from existence as well since Planes are extensions of their Princes.
In addition, seems like there are also workarounds for getting rid of Princes if enough Daedra are onboard with it. Like how The Daedric Princes cursed Jyggalag into becoming Sheogorath after breaking him in battle to be rid of the Prince of Order. It didn't kill Jyggalag, but Jyggalag had no real say in anything, and was for all effective purposes put into a twisted sort of forced sleep walk, except for during the Grey March and then off we go again. So it seems to be possible - given enough power behind it - to corrupt or alter Deadric Princes. I wonder if there ever came a hypothetical time when for some reason Dagon would provoke the ire of enough Princes to suffer some truly catastrophic levels of damage, such as with Jyggalag before being cursed into Sheogorath, what would happen to this missing perhaps consumed Prince? Would they manifest? Be freed? Could a curse be cast, and suddenly we got something different? Edit: Considering also how the Daedric Princes didn't try to consume Jyggalag despite clearly having him at their mercy, perhaps it's either a very complicated process and not always an option? Or more interestingly! Deadric Princes must be somewhat "compatible" with the one they are trying to consume? Order, logic, etc, as a sphere mixes very poorly with the spheres of influence of a lot of the major Princess who would have been involved in this whole Jyggalag incident. Of course, it could be down to just Deadric politics for why they didn't try consuming Jyggalag, but it does make to me some shred of sense consumed Deadra need to be compatible with the Prince trying to consume them as living concepts they can't without losing that concept just merge in any potential combination. So what is compatible with Dagon's spheres?
No you can "kill" them you just have to weaken them immensely so that they are no longer able to be the manifestation of their spheres of influence Jyggalag is the best example of this as his curse forced him to be very much killed and turned into Sheogorath and we have it directly from the words of Sheogorath himself that when it's his time to turn into Jyggalag he's very much also dead
@@videocrowsnest5251 The problem with Jyggalag is rather that no daedric prince would allow any other to take on that power. They all head to work together and still only managed to twist the most powerful one, but were unable to permanently defeat him.
I've always assumed that Daedric Princes used to be more singular in what they had dominion over and just sort of "ate" princes of similar domains until we had the earliest version of the current pantheon. This is why several princes seem to have dominions that do not quite fit with their primary aesthetic. I also assume that after eons of this Daedric dominion over certain aspects is so complete that other princes really cant afford to go after one another in that sort of fashion as their dominions are so wide that fully subverting a prince would cause massive upheavel in Mundus and oblivion. Necrom has helped substantiate this i feel, there was a point in time where Daedric Princes weren't AS important to the foundation of Oblivion and Mundus but now their presences are so pivotal that they cannot be removed without shifting a proverbial balance. Just look at what turning Trinimac into Malacath did, i have a feeling that letting the old Prince of Unseen paths return would actually throw fate itself on its back, perhaps Mora is causing the prophecy he foresaw.
A very good point, and even a good reflection of real beliefs. Gods started out very local and very specific, but with time they were put together and more attributes were attached, but not always the same attributes in the same region. Like how Mars is not only god of war, but also guardian of agriculture, possibly starting out as storm god connected to fertility. Or how Artemis is at the same time the goddess of childbirth and chastity and later on became with Selene, the goddess of the moon, who is also interpreted as Hecate, goddess of crossroads, night, light, magic and ghosts. Seems daedric princes work in the same way.
This makes wonder: - these events happened long before the events of ESV Skyrim. -Mora seems to seek Dragonborns as his champions. - Dragonborns can give dragon souls to Mora in exchange for power by shaping their own skill trees (what happens after we kill Miraak). - Dragon souls are connected to Akatosh and thus the fabric of time itself. -Mora is collecting the dragon souls so that he can use time and erase Ithelia for good.
I saw a comment on a recent FudgeMuppet video about Necrom that suggests the player character in each elder scrolls game is an embodiment of Ithelia in some way. They reinforced it by saying the player can chose how they want their destiny to play out in each game, thus the idea that Ithelia the prince of paths is acting through us
@@Tyler-vu8yr VIvec is also a character who is known to make a decision out of his own free will to defy fate as he says hidden in his sermons: "He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."
@@Tyler-vu8yrWhich is interesting because TES I - IV play within less than 35 years and at least for Aerna and Daggerfall the birthdates of the hero are known to be 3E 370 and 3E 375 The biggest gap is actually from Daggerfall to Morrowind with 22 years. Which means that atleast two, possibly three are alive at the same time.
That’s not gonna happen it’s already been pretty much established they are anti - god not sure about atheist but they are definitely anti god (all of them as far as I know )
Remember, the forgotten Prince was destroyed before ANY mortal walked on Nirn; the passage about the Deadlight realm describes how Dagon chased the forgotten Prince to their realm and killed them "before your kind walked", so the Dwemer's advancements would have nothing to do with the Prince (although I'd imagine they'd be quite pleased with the Dwemer's scientific advancements)
I kinda like the thought that maybe this dead god was one of or many of the dwemer. most of the beings we see that simply just get so powerful that they disappear(like the augur) presumably achieve Chim, which in the case of Vivec and Tiber Septim/Talos they achieved godhood and essentially made it so that they as gods always existed within the world, it wouldn't be farfetched to me that a dwemer or a whole group of them caused a dragon break and thrust themselves back in time
I find one of his many titles “Guardian of the Unseen” to be especially interesting here. Since Ithelia is known as “the Unseen”. It reminds me a lot of how Vahlok the Jailor was seen as the “guardian” of Miraak, in the story “The Guardian and the Traitor”. There’s not really a connection other than both guarding someone else, in the “prison guard” sort of way. Just thought it was a cool coincidence
I really like the new lore regarding Daedric Princes that ESO has given us. Supposed rules that the Daedric Princes follow, hidden or dead princes. Hope they can bring in some of the lore from ESO into TES6.
My question is: Could "dead" Deadric Princes be brought back to relevance by mortals? Would spreading of faith in dead Deadric Princes bring them back?
This dude has a legitimate gift for imagery. The various adjectives and the like that are used here are top notch. He also has an aptitude for alliteration.
I think it's worth noting, in the portion of Deadlight being lost to the void at 1:15:00 , that the daedric princes themselves ARE the plane of Oblivion, they are their plane and their plane is them- therefore, being defeated as a prince, or "killed" as we can put it, would result in the realm's overall weakening if not its shattering. If we see the planes as bubbles (as we do the Aedric ones, due to mortal nature.) then we can interpret it as a "popping bubble", whatever was within is now kind of scattering. This is to give you credit, of course! Great theories as always, this one especially fascinated me. Hell, we can say that it makes a whole lot of sense, since Oblivion is ultimately a space (or spaces) in the void.
But not all planes of Oblivion are controlled by daedric princes. And daedric princes aren't limited to a single realm. Umbra created Umbriel by splitting off a piece of Clavicus Vile's realm, but then, Umbra was also split of from Clavicus Vile. The Chimer created Sadal's prison to, well imprison Sadal Arch mage Shalidor created a plane The khajiit lich Arum-Khal created a plane Mankar Cameron created a plane (his paradise) Atronachs come from their own dedicated planes The Hist have their own plane The Ideal Masters have the Soul Cairn Bad Man's Hallows is owned by a minor daedra lord who takes on the form of a tree.
Now I'm wondering two things: were Ithelia and Jyggalag banished at the same time? And what if any connection does Sotha Sil have to Ithelia? I am also wondering who Ithelia could be? Considering the lore of Shivering Isles, Jyggalag was turned into Sheogorath. So could Ithelia be hiding in plain sight as another character without her memory? Could she be wandering the plains of Oblivion as some minor Daedra that has no idea she is a Daedric Prince? It's very intriguing.
Radical take (and likely untrue but fun to think about): Ithelia is the player character of various Elder Scrolls games. A prince who has the power to change fate? This fits with a lot of the core concepts of the player character being the most important/significant figure of their eras, in regards to upholding or breaking the thread of prophecy. And who but gamers could be represented by glowing LED lights? XD
@@Karliff5 I'd love to see a mod that transports the player back in time, or maybe into a shadow of that time to find out who Ithelia was. It would be interesting. Sort of like when the player ends up in Mankar Camoran's Paradise in Oblivion to recover the Amulet of Kings.
@@Karliff5 The player character doesn't change fate, they (help) fulfill prophesies after all. The player character is most likely Lorkhan/Shor. Mankar Camoran might be right and Nirn is Lorkhan's realm.
yeah i do enjoy what they did with the Fargrave chapter, like when playing it the first time i was like "oh could this be a reference to Jyggalag" but you really dig in the questions of the realm really build up. Plus Fargrave itself and it's possible relation to Ithelia now, a unruled realm who's a crossroad of paths leading all over Oblivion and beyond.
Your Detective series is by far my favorite. When first playing Necrom I didn't even connect Deadlight to a Prince. Really gotta go back and pay attention now.
Can't help but think Ithelia may have had a rivalry with Nocturnal and Mora as both of their current spheres remind me of Ithelia. Deadlight Prince of Energy being consumed by Dagon would make sense why there wasn't the required energy to create a portal from inside He'd siphon the Princes energy in his attack. I'm envisioning something akin to The Grey March consuming other planes before he was cursed as Sheogorath.
A clarification for Ithelia. Her titles as the mistress of the untraveled road and Prince of Paths, with the abilities to change fate. Speak more about free will than anything else. Mora is more about destiny, if you look at all of his eyes they are simply a straight line with two points.
Yes, Hermaeus Mora is more about set destiny and maybe even prophecy. Ithalia sounds like she could change that. Which could potentially be incredibly dangerous because the entire Elder Scrolls universe runs on a wheel made of song and *prophecy*
@@NuniixoIt’s possible Ithelia is the Daedric Prince of Destiny and Free Will. Could it be that Ithelia created the Elder Scrolls to record future destinies and prophecies she forsaw?
an explanation for the energy now abundant in the realm might be that Dagon is feeding some of his energy into the realm so the cultists can function there. it would also explain the red energy in the citadel as he would focus his power there
I think back to the Shivering Isles DLC, and how Jygalagg *became* Sheogorath when he was changed by the other Princes. What if a "destroyed" Prince isn't mantled by their destroyer, but simply *becomes* them? The Daedra are forever being reborn and reconstructed. Maybe tales of their destruction are simply them changing forms?
I recently saw a video describe Peryite as the prince of order, which confused the hell out of me because of the amount of time I’ve spent playing shivering isles. I did some research and saw one theory speculating on subtle differences between Peryite enforcing the natural order and Jyggalag seeking to impose his own order, after watching this video my current head cannon is the much more appealing thought of Peryite inheriting the title after imposing the plague of madness on Jyggalag; it’s admittedly not a perfect theory and I’m sure someone more versed in the lore will come along and ruin it in no time, but I much prefer him being bestowed the title in a further attempt to “kill” the original prince of order, instead of a subtle difference in meanings behind two princes having the same title.
I think this theory has some actual solid evidence, nice job. Also the name of dead light itself kind of hints to this. it can be a reference to the defeated prince because "their light has gone out" but also be a reference to the attribute of the plane. If the deadlights originally belonged to a prince of energy they no longer serve that function. And what is an attribute of light? thats right, energy... the name deadlight is pretty on the nose when you think about it
I want to say, I think it is less that Mora inherited Ithelia's spheres. "Guardian of the Unseen" could very well mean that he protects fate from change (which Ithelia would be anathema to), or he is the guardian of Ithelia the Unseen's hidden existence. He also reads the tides fate, which Ithelia could change on a whim - something Mora seems either unable or unwilling to do, and which seems to terrify him as it effectively renders anything he reads subject to change and thus oddly unknowable to the Knower of the Unknowable.
Thank you! I was looking for a comment like this one, that part of the theory was driving me nuts and I was kind of surprised that alternative wasn't mentioned in the video.
@@haydeen6535 right, still would make him the king though. I dont see how not liking something doesnt make it true. Just like kings have good sons and bad ones too. Like God, with Satan. Hes still one of his angels.
58:13 If I am not mistaken, the only place we saw some kind of lightning storage, or lightning doing something is in Soul Cairn in Skyrim, where you can create black soul gems
Honestly, the energy part could be expounded more. The mad scientist Daedric Prince's could be ambition and change as well. Progress at all costs, morality and ethics be damned.
To quote Sheogorath "Everything changes. Even Daedric Princes. Especially Daedric Princes." It would not surprise me one bit if Daedra were not even born as princes, but rather become as such through collecting concepts for their portfolio. Arising from the chaotic soup of conflict and lesser concepts.
I love detective episodes on ESO! I’ve spent way too many hours on this game than The Elder Scrolls V. Keep up the intriguing and well put-together work Camel!! Bless
I only found your channel recently before christmas and im amazed by the level of detail there is in your videos. There is so much in the elder scrolls games that i missed whilist playing them. keep up the good work.
One small thing on the Vestige: you are no longer souless by the end of the bad main quest. Merida wrests your souls from Molag Bal and you recover it after defeating him. I think that undoes the drastic flesh vessel you spoke of.
I feel like prince Ithelia is the cause of the elder scrolls games she opens up someone’s paths. I think she allows the main characters in every game to make their own fate and that’s why dragon breaks occur for most of the games in the lore. Also Morrowind your chosen by Azura and in oblivion you become shegorath so you were chosen by different princes in those games which is why the lore for what happened in game is more set in stone when it come to oblivion and Morrowind
Just a throw away idea but what if the Dwemer were supposed to be followers of this daedric prince? But since the prince no longer exist, they are godless and simply dismiss the divinity of the others.
There's a canon reason stated for why the dwemer don't worship deadric princes. If I remember correctly it had something to do with them being more focused on knowledge and research
If there was a Daedric Prince of Energy, I could see why a prince like Dagon would find them to be his enemy. Think about it. A prince that harnesses energy with a structured way of doing things is an affront to destruction and constant change. Also if this prince were to return one day, they'd either be one of reason and logic (perhaps peaceful) or industrial in a semblance of mechanized warfare (non peaceful). This revelation of Dead Light's existence opens many possibilities...
The blue charging stones also being red reminds me of nirnroot, which changes color to adapt to its environment (initially yellow, then blue, with a red varient).
Point of order: while Mehrunes Dagon does only have the one specific reference to "energy" being within his sphere, that's far from the only time this is alluded to. Indeed, there are multiple references to the Sun in connection to him, most notably in the opening prayers of the PGE3 and his connections to the Mythic Dawn. In fact, these allusions, in combination with the whole Leaper Demon King thing from the Aldudaggas, lead many to suspect that Dagon was once Magnus some time before the Magna-Ge fused him with Mehrunes the Razor in the bowels of Lyg.
Ooo, wonderful! Had been hoping you’d want to delve into this part of ES lore. ESO has brought in some very interesting aspects, Deadlight from the Deadlands DLC being one of them. Thank you, Camelworks!
Loved the video! With regards to Essential Energy, my interpretation links this to the Realms of Oblivion being continuations/reflections of their Daedric masters. Hermaeus mora and others state that they are their realms, and though they can be separated/impeded from communicating with one another (such as Hermaeus mora being temporarily blinded/cut off from Apocrypha), they are one and the same at some deep fundamental level. If the Daedric Prince of Deadlight was rendered so powerless and inconsequential to be essentially dead, or as dead as a Daedric Prince can be, then it stands to reason that their Essential Energy flowing into their realm would also be diminished. But given that their Essential Energy is the very thing that imposes structure and order on their realm, and thus separates it from being the Void, then the loss of Energy in this sense might be less literal and scientific than we take it to mean, and rather more metaphysical, as without this constant flow of Daedric Essential Energy coming from the Dead Prince, the realm is degrading back to the 'natural state' of the absence of order: i.e. the Void. Anyway, what do I know? I'm a baboon on my best days. Fantastic video, keep it up!
Thank you for making these videos, I used to play eso for the lore-stories but its no longer in my budget, and these videos help bring back the nostliga and i don't miss out on elder scroll lore
I really hope we get to see more of Deadlight. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the Aylids (I forget how to spell them) use what is basically batteries of the same color? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it reminds me alot of the first places I explored in Oblivion
Another terrific video Camel! 🐪 I indeed learned something new about the Elder Scrolls. Also, I have some insight on Daedric Princes being destroyed. Vivec seemingly implies that the number 16 is a constant, since that’s how many spaces there are between the parts of the wheel outside of Mundus. So, a constant for what? Could mean that there’s always precisely 16 Princes, or simply that there’s 16 Main Plains of Oblivion, with Pocket Realms in them. I think you’re right about Dagon inheriting the sphere of Energy from the Prince of Deadlight. So, if he conquered Deadlight then maybe that’s the original name for what’s now the Deadlands. Assuming that the Deadlands is a Main Plane and not a Pocket Realm, and that Dagon indeed is not an original Prince, that would mean the Deadlands wasn’t originally his. Thus, once belonged to another Daedric Prince, which could be the Prince of Deadlight. Also, not sure if you considered this, but “Deadlight” could be an homage to “the Deadlights” from “It.” So, maybe this forgotten Prince was an Elder Scrolls Pennywise? Thank you for giving me something to watch while I’m babysitting puppies! 😃
I always thought that Vivec being...wrong. He until achieved CHIM was a mortal pretending to be a God. And we know there were countlass Et'Ada who choose to bail on creation and simply doesn't care for the Mortal Realm and Oblivion being infinite I at least assume there are many MANY more princes just...out of reach. Ithelia is a special case since taking Mora's word at face value she could have unreaveled the Mundus and Daedric lords we know LOVE Mundus thus Mora stopping her. And perhaps something even more going on. Politics of oblivion is quite complex after all.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 Since we're talking timeless pre-creatia, it's possible there were more than Princes who hung around going 'oooo shiny' at the Mundus, but by the time of Convention and it all stabilized all but the 16 were 'dead' or driven out of Oblivion? 16 Constants emerging out of the infinite possibilities.
The probelm with taking everything Vivec states as undeniable truth is that Vivec is a giant liar and faker. That's kind of his schtick. He has a lot of wise things to say, but who is to say how much of it is true.
Love you and your content! Seeing a new Camel video in the sub feed is just what my dopamine level needs, everytime. Anyway, here is my algorithm-satisfying comment. Keep it up, cheers mate! 🐪❤
On a different note, if Deadlight is slowly drifting into the void because Daegon destroyed it's Deadric Prince, Daegon is a complete prick, since he's gifted it to his faithful 😂
@@loraelstad8941 yes but expendable tends to mean, willing to let them die during a war. Like sacrificing the mythic dawn. Not, pretend to reward them, then dump them on a plane of Oblivion that's drifting into the void. That's something you do to your enemies, not your own troops.
Adhd energy is me having to rewind to the beginning about 50 times bc I keep zoning out bc your voice is just so soothing. This is a compliment bc I love the lore enough to rewind 50 times lmaoooo
Hmm maybe it was once "everlight". Also perhaps another part of the sphere of the prince was renual and things eternal (it would be a point of conflict and you did point out the renewable energy)
Here's a possibility- Merune's Dagon has two backstories- first as the prince born of hope and the revolution that destroyed the Kalpa that Mollag Baal Ruled, and the Second is of a once kindly being who saved remnants of prior Kalpas but was cursed by Alduin to destroy all what he once saved. Perhaps these two iterations of Dagon fought and eventually merged and then decimated the Realm of Deadlight so that they could not separate again. Also, given the possibility of a prince mantling another Prince's Domain, Why didn't any of the other princes try mantling Jyggalag, and instead go out of their way to transfigure him into Sheogorath? Did they fear a conflict being unleashed over control over his domain? Or was his domain too different from any of the other princes that they couldn't properly do so?
Great video! You can tell so much work went into it. It really makes you wonder about the daedric princes though. For beings so intrinsically linked with the concept of change, they sure do fear it. Though I guess part of Mora's sphere is fate so he would disdain its opposite.
Also great video, it was incredibly interesting. Also you managed to invest me into eso lore - since I usually don't get that involved in it. (Mainly cos it feels a lot like a massive retcon.) But this, this is new. So well done; it was worth the wait.
What if Ithelia was supporting the Player Character in ALL the Elder Scrolls games? We’re bound to her and resurrected when she wants to change things in the world and mess with her siblings as revenge. Allowing us to be good, evil, and whatever else we feel like each playthrough.
Very cool!! Also wanted to say I was terrified of playing through the black books, but once I watched your vid exploring the whole plane that helped a lot. Finished the miraak quest finally!
Alright, as long as I have been watching your video, when you mentioned the pillars, a really crazy theory that may be plausible came in my mind. Even thought what remains of what Deadlight was before it came to this reminds some place in Cold Harbour maybe, the energy crystals on the pillars look like a lot like Aetherium Crystals. Where do we find those ? In Dwemer ruins and technology. Many of us have speculated that in Skyrim about the "Altar of Xrib" that is either a deity worshiped by the Falmer or a forgotten God that the Dwemer used to worship before they got into tonal manipulation and devoided to logic, rejecting the belief in Gods. So my question to all of you, my either far fetched or maybe plausible theory is, what if that Xrib that we do know next to nothing as well was indeed a Dwemer God / a Daedric Prince worshiped by the Dwemer in the past, judging by the remnants resembling Aetherium Crystals and the fact that Dwemer technology and architecture seem to be extremely otherworldly and advanced compared to what is present in Nirn. Is Xrib probably the "forgotten" Daedric Prince, defeated by Dagon, hence also the Dwemer stopped believing and rejected the Gods ? And one step further would be that did the Dwemer disappeared or got time and plain displaced, because instead of trying to achieve godhood for themselves or become one with the Universe, actually tried to resurect their forgotten God and possibly Master (Heart of Lorkhan, Tools of Kagrenak, The Numidium) ? That's my speculation by that tiny detail I observed. Which might be either completely bonkers or actually does make some sense.
Any kind of technological innovation or advancement always makes me think of the Dwemer. I wonder if the prince of deadlight was the patron god of the Dwemer, and after their defeat, was essentially retconned and forgotten about by even the most devout followers.
1:02:24 anyone else reminded of the Dwarves? Maybe this Prince was like… a patron deity of the dwarves? I dunno, I still feel like the dead daedric prince of the dead light and Ithelia are the same, even if that means two daedric princes are dipping into the dead one’s lost proficiencies. It could be that Mehrunes tried to kill her, failed, went to Hermaeus, who then made everyone forget she existed. Like, even the glowing symbols on her skin match the aesthetic of the Deadlights. Plus, Hermaeus and Mehrunes did work together before to take down Molag, so them working together isn’t impossible. Plus if the theory of the Dwarves not being dead, but simply transported into the 9th era, is true and not scrapped, then who else but the Prince of Altering Fate would be able to do so? Plus, look at the Dwarven advanced tech, and the advanced tech of the Deadlights. They feel like two flavors of the same thing, IMO. Then again, that’s my theory.
@@grilledleeks6514 There's the Bad Man the Daedric Tree in the public dungeon of Glenumbra, Crow Mother of the Crow's Wood and Hollowjack a dread lord that feeds off mortal fears. And the Demiprince of the Maelstrom Arena. The title of Deadra Lord is like a nobility among the common Kyn and other forms of Daedra whilst the Princes are the undisputed kings and Queens of Oblivion only challenged by eachother. It's a common miss conception that Daedric Lords and Daedric Prince's are the same thing
@majialthedarkprince2403 what labels them as lord? Is there a hierarchy listed somewhere? If you don't have your own plane of oblivion to lord over, I highly doubt any other daedra call you lord
Something that I haven’t seen anyone mention that could support your “Deadlight is in the Void” theory is the constant lightning strikes. In the clip you showed of Greyhaven, we saw constant lightning strikes, just as we see in all the clips of Deadlight
The idea of a daedric price absorbing power of other princes makes some sense. After all, in many cultures around the world, some mythological gods would absorb traits from other minor gods. Gods with similar functions or similar traits can be absorbed into one god. Greek gods having several different origins and cultures, then turning into the Greek gods we know today. Or the Egyptian God Isis, absorbing the attributes of other gods and goddesses. In a sense, those original gods are dead and forgotten. But the Greek, Egyptian, etc, gods we’re familiar with take over their realms and are remembered. Great video!
Another classic "this will be a 10 minute video" video. Hope you love it and I would love to know what you think
Your thesaurus skills are becoming next level.
Change could also be innovation this lost daedra could be why the elder scrolls is forever stuck in a midevil time. This may even be the lost god of the dwemer and there disappearance may be why they became atheist in a world with actual gids
@@zimattack9994 "skill" is a strong word, more like a monkey with a shotgun
Love these long lore videos I have watched the augur of dunlain videos 3 times because the way you done that video is fucking amazing
Hey, I think because we can enter the warded portal to Deadlight is because we have an anuic valence. The Vestige is like a pseudo-Daedra. Daedric body, anuic aspect and mortal soul.
Also, would you consider doing a video on the relationship between the Vestige and Molag Bal?
"Here, Well, here as in this plane. Mundus. Tamriel. Nearby, relatively speaking. On the cosmological scale its all nearby" ~ Septimus Signus
Let us not forget the Prince of Order. It is possible to corrupt a Prince so much they are effectively, mentally dead.
We know deadra can loose there power and can die it's what happened with the divines. Whatever way to do it drain the princes essence and they become mortal.
@@YOGI-kb9tgyeah because Lorkhan tricked the divines into creating Mundus in exchange for their immortality. Unless someone tricks a Daedric prince into giving up their immortality they won’t mortally die
@@YOGI-kb9tg Even then, the Divines *are* active, and only a few of them (such as Shor, Tsun, Y'ffre, etc.) are considered "dead" (and *even then*, we meet them and they are clearly able to continue thinking and acting in some way). Auriel allegedly re-ascended from his diminished mortal form at the beginning of the mortal world's history, and Morrowind features several of the other divines being active enough to manifest mortal avatars during the Imperial Cult and main questline.
@@YOGI-kb9tg The thing is, a Prince *is* their plane of Oblivion. So whoever the Prince of the plane is, they certainly still exist and have connection over it, or it wouldn’t.
Thanks for the super thanks mate! Appreciate it a lot. Let’s also not forget Trinimac who Boethiah ate and shat out as Malacath 😂
As a proud owner of the camelworks elderscroll blanket I can say that it is a 10/10 blanket after acquiring the blanket I have unlocked secrets to the universe as well as a achieved chim
Downside is I'm blind now but that's fine
You've achieved chim. SO ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN YOUR DOING!
One does not need sight if one already knows all that is to be seen.
I've always had a theory that the blindness is supposed to be trading sight for a different kind of sight that mortal minds are incapable of using unless they've achieved Chim.
Awesome man! I new those blankets were worth it
@@Camelworks worth every septim
I find it interesting how in the Deadlands, the stormy, lightning riddled area is called The Sever. Possibly relating to how Dagon took on the sphere of energy and melded this severed sphere of energy to himself and in-turn the Deadlands.
The concept of other lost or rather forgotten daedric princes makes the name Oblivion itself much more logical as oblivion (the word) translates to 'the state of being unaware or unconscious'. The existence of former princes now being forgotten would suggest a gradual and perhaps even natural progression, where daedric princes over time are forgotten and their powers mantled by another prince as the number of princes slowly dwindles.
In the long term, this could indicate that all daedric princes either willing or unwilling, knowing or unknowing, are all bound to become forgotten and become mantled by a single entity that possesses all of the daedric traits, all at once.
Interestingly, one of the two primordial entities of the Elder Scrolls universe is Anu, who is also known as Anu the Everything (all daedric traits?). Perhaps this natural progression of princes becoming forgotten ultimately leads to the "reintegration" of Anu?
maybe that is what leads to another cycle or the kalpas - the daedric princes reuniting and then falling apart again. It would def hint again to the cyclical nature of the elder scrolls
@@allanredhill8682 That is a very interesting point. The question in this scenario then becomes if the creation of a new kalpa becomes directly influenced by the sole remembered daedric prince or if the resulting entity is something else entirely?
@@allanredhill8682
Sort of like a Big Bang & Big Crunch model, interesting theory
Maybe that's what Jyggalag did (or tried to do) and that's why he's remembered as having threatened every Prince, and the eventual reintegration with Anu is why he resembles Order?
@@KonoGufo That is an interesting theory! If true, that would suggest that Jyggalag represents the reintegration of Anu, while the rest of the princes in this scenario would be fully-aware and adversarial to the reintegration, perhaps due to self-preservation?
i think a better term for a Daedra being "dead" would be "displaced", because they have been displaced to another phase of existence until they can be returned to there previous state, a great lore video as always Camel
"dead" for a Daedric Prince could be more like "comatose". Displaced or absorbed by a more powerful Prince and it's consciousness and sense of self destroyed entirely
Depends whether or not thier being worshiped
what if they do die in a similar way go through the same process but come back eventually
@@thaddeushill7080metaphysical beings in TES don't require worship, nobody even worships most of the Et Ada seeing as there are thousands of Magna Ge that nobody even knows about and yet any single one of them is more powerful than an Aedra.
@@KitKatHexe now why is that....how close are thier spheres compared to others...just looking at bethesda lore shows they don't like giving us answers and CHIM makes thing a bit more complicated....i mean what has clavicus vile done he has split himself before an this is big to (me anyway) what if the dra (aedra an daedra) are only "angels" and have thier own pantheon hence.....well worship being important an my last 2 points are (this one's weak) nocturnal showing up outa nowheren(not nowhyr lel 😆) an lastly there's more then one way of "worshipping" an it changes not only on sphere (look at stendarr the racist shield...basterd) but this is my brain working an I could be very wrong an u could be right an that's what I love bout bethesda....sorry for the rant if ya read through an have a good day
In the book, ‘The Legend of Deadlight’, it describes it as being devoid of life and energy. While it does appear to have energy, could Mehrunes Dagon be suppressing/draining the planes energy as a way to keep the defeated prince subjugated?
Perhaps that is why his followers maintain a presence there rather than leave it abandoned.
And it could be why the pylons in the tower are red instead of blue. Dagon is having his followers maintain them to siphon the energy from Deadlight to the Deadlands. But my slight alternative theory is that it is in fact Ithelia's former realm. And since the lore says the prince of Deadlight was defeated by Dagon the Prince of Revolution this was all part of the way Hermaeus Mora's way to remove the memory of Ithelia from the aurbis. He rewrote cosmic memory so that it was Dagon who defeated the nameless forgotten prince. He forced Dagon to mantle the energy aspect of the realm to keep a certain amount of suppression on Deadlight as well as keeping other daedra from entering via secret hidden knowledge. A contingency put in place in case of any contingencies made by Ithelia. Afterwards sealing his own memories away so the truth was not known, solidifying it as "fact" until they become unsealed.
I thought you were going to mention that Mannimarco's plan was to trap Molag Ball and take his traits as a Daedric Prince. Which reinforces your theory that both Mora and Dagon did it.
I am hoping Bethesda revives Deadric Prince of Energy.
Futuristic fantasy realm in oblivion would be pretty nice.
@@danubeisreallypeculiarrive7944 Plot twist, Starfield is an alternate future where that prince beat Dagon lol
I theorize actually that Dagon's other mismatched sphere, Hope, could also be from the prince of the deadlight. Technological advancement and abundant energy feels very hopeful to me.
i felt similarly, my first thoughts were that the prince of deadlight is the prince of progress, advancement, very similar to hope, change, and ambition. perhaps these were mantled alongside energy?
@@domd nah. hope is in relation to the sphere of rebellion. IIRC, Dagon was CREATED to be the embodiment of hope by the Magne-Ge to overthrow Molag Bal and the Dreugh he ruled over as king in rebellion, as they were oppressive and held complete dominance of their world and all the beings in it. The Magne-Ge did not anticipate him becoming what he did and only sought to have him be a "savior" of last resort to those who needed it. But, as we know, he developed his own ideals, ambitions, and goals and used the conditions of his creation to further his own means. He still is the Daedric prince of hope, rebellion, chaos, and destruction but now he seeks to rebel against everything, causing chaos and destruction to fulfill his own hopes of having his ideal reality.
I'm actually guessing it's ambition.
Hope breeds revolution breeds change. Revolution isn't ambitious for more, it's hope that once change comes things will be better. It also seems more in keeping with his creation myth. He was created as a weapon to otherthrow the tyrant dreg Kings, a hope for a different future. Not to supplant them, which would be ambition.
However ambition and energy, especially as it relates to technology seems about right.
@@Lucky13Ravens Ambition is the opposite of revolution, but they both cause change. It fits his creation story if you take the gods at face value. A lot more of the lore makes sense if your first assumption is that every god in the elder scrolls except maybe lorkhan is a glorified scam artist, constantly trying to recoup their lost power by farming mortal souls through 'afterlives'. I do believe he was made as a weapon against the dhregs, but that doesn't mean that he was intended to be good.
@@curvingfyre6810 I didn't say good. Hope isn't inherently good. And ambition isn't evil.
I don't believe his Magna-ge creation. But, they wouldn't make him with ambition, they wouldn't knowingly make a tool to slay god's with ambition as a trait, that would require an IQ less than most mortals.
I like the new, more deep-lore direction elder scrolls detective has taken
>new
It was always there you just bhad to be literate and intelligent to see it
You “bhave” some fantastic literacy skills yourself, skippy
@@sweetiesquad8284 Congratulations, you played yourself 😜
@@sweetiesquad8284 another obnoxious redditor
Fat fingers aside, he's not wrong, this is hardly new of this channel lol
So, after reading a bit. From everything I can find, Ithelia was mentioned specifically as "Fate-Changer," whereas Mora is just lord of Fate as a whole, or Master of the Tides of Fate. That sounds to me like he watches over Fate to make sure everything is flowing as it should, and that Ithelia's Fate Changing disrupted that flow, making Mora's job harder. Like he had to watch as more and more fates got changed, creating more and more potential ends and branches in fate/time, so he saw that as a threat and had to stop her.
Yeah, that makes more sense to me too. Mora is a huge asshole nerd, and he wants to know everything. A force that makes change not only possible but probable is exactly the kind of thing he would hate, because there would be things and realities he couldn’t possibly know. And he would hate that.
That’s why I don’t think that that other Prince really posed any threat to reality, it just posed a threat to Mora specifically, and that’s why he went behind the others back to erase them. He isn’t a benevolent force, after all
What manifests in coldharbour was your vestige, when you absorbed the skyshard summoned by the prophet (Varen) your Aedric corporeal form was restored, allowing you to bypass the daedric protections. 53:27
So glad I found this comment, so I dont have to explain that myself :D
😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢😢
This made a few interesting follow up questions come to mind
1. If when destroyed Princes have their spheres of influence transferred to their destroyer, what happened to the 4 spheres from the 4 Princes that "simultaneously died" in Fargrave? Insert "free real estate" meme
2. Given that Princes cannot be destroyed, sure seems like a very convenient way to weaken the most powerful ones is by restoring their fallen victims...
I hope one of these two ideas pan out, both have great and terrible consequences.
Interesting. If they "died" simultaneously it means that their spheres are heading towards each other creating an eternal loop. This can mean that these princes are "stuck". Like the fate of the weeping angels of doctor who.
@@lighterudite it could also be that their tasks are more or less randomly distributed to other princes. The idea, the concept they represent still exist.
An interesting thing to point out about The Daedric Princes. They are, at a fundamental level, the physical manifestations of concepts. So you can't "kill" a Daedric Prince anymore than you can "kill" an idea or a belief. Thus making them forgotten, like Mora tried to do, or consuming and assimilating their concepts, like Dagon may have done, would be the only way to eliminate their ability to manifest. And the fact that Deadlight still exists and is now a part of Dagon's sphere is evidence for the idea that he likely consumed the fallen prince after defeating them. Because if The Prince of Deadlight was truly destroyed then Deadlight itself would have been erased from existence as well since Planes are extensions of their Princes.
In addition, seems like there are also workarounds for getting rid of Princes if enough Daedra are onboard with it. Like how The Daedric Princes cursed Jyggalag into becoming Sheogorath after breaking him in battle to be rid of the Prince of Order. It didn't kill Jyggalag, but Jyggalag had no real say in anything, and was for all effective purposes put into a twisted sort of forced sleep walk, except for during the Grey March and then off we go again. So it seems to be possible - given enough power behind it - to corrupt or alter Deadric Princes.
I wonder if there ever came a hypothetical time when for some reason Dagon would provoke the ire of enough Princes to suffer some truly catastrophic levels of damage, such as with Jyggalag before being cursed into Sheogorath, what would happen to this missing perhaps consumed Prince? Would they manifest? Be freed? Could a curse be cast, and suddenly we got something different?
Edit: Considering also how the Daedric Princes didn't try to consume Jyggalag despite clearly having him at their mercy, perhaps it's either a very complicated process and not always an option? Or more interestingly! Deadric Princes must be somewhat "compatible" with the one they are trying to consume? Order, logic, etc, as a sphere mixes very poorly with the spheres of influence of a lot of the major Princess who would have been involved in this whole Jyggalag incident. Of course, it could be down to just Deadric politics for why they didn't try consuming Jyggalag, but it does make to me some shred of sense consumed Deadra need to be compatible with the Prince trying to consume them as living concepts they can't without losing that concept just merge in any potential combination. So what is compatible with Dagon's spheres?
No you can "kill" them you just have to weaken them immensely so that they are no longer able to be the manifestation of their spheres of influence
Jyggalag is the best example of this as his curse forced him to be very much killed and turned into Sheogorath and we have it directly from the words of Sheogorath himself that when it's his time to turn into Jyggalag he's very much also dead
You can kill an idea. Just make sure it's absolutely forgotten.
@@videocrowsnest5251 The problem with Jyggalag is rather that no daedric prince would allow any other to take on that power. They all head to work together and still only managed to twist the most powerful one, but were unable to permanently defeat him.
The King of Elder Scrolls content has returned with yet another masterpiece.
I've always assumed that Daedric Princes used to be more singular in what they had dominion over and just sort of "ate" princes of similar domains until we had the earliest version of the current pantheon.
This is why several princes seem to have dominions that do not quite fit with their primary aesthetic.
I also assume that after eons of this Daedric dominion over certain aspects is so complete that other princes really cant afford to go after one another in that sort of fashion as their dominions are so wide that fully subverting a prince would cause massive upheavel in Mundus and oblivion.
Necrom has helped substantiate this i feel, there was a point in time where Daedric Princes weren't AS important to the foundation of Oblivion and Mundus but now their presences are so pivotal that they cannot be removed without shifting a proverbial balance.
Just look at what turning Trinimac into Malacath did, i have a feeling that letting the old Prince of Unseen paths return would actually throw fate itself on its back, perhaps Mora is causing the prophecy he foresaw.
A very good point, and even a good reflection of real beliefs.
Gods started out very local and very specific, but with time they were put together and more attributes were attached, but not always the same attributes in the same region.
Like how Mars is not only god of war, but also guardian of agriculture, possibly starting out as storm god connected to fertility. Or how Artemis is at the same time the goddess of childbirth and chastity and later on became with Selene, the goddess of the moon, who is also interpreted as Hecate, goddess of crossroads, night, light, magic and ghosts.
Seems daedric princes work in the same way.
This makes wonder:
- these events happened long before the events of ESV Skyrim.
-Mora seems to seek Dragonborns as his champions.
- Dragonborns can give dragon souls to Mora in exchange for power by shaping their own skill trees (what happens after we kill Miraak).
- Dragon souls are connected to Akatosh and thus the fabric of time itself.
-Mora is collecting the dragon souls so that he can use time and erase Ithelia for good.
I saw a comment on a recent FudgeMuppet video about Necrom that suggests the player character in each elder scrolls game is an embodiment of Ithelia in some way. They reinforced it by saying the player can chose how they want their destiny to play out in each game, thus the idea that Ithelia the prince of paths is acting through us
@@Tyler-vu8yr VIvec is also a character who is known to make a decision out of his own free will to defy fate as he says hidden in his sermons: "He chose this path of his own free will. He stole the godhood and murdered the Hortator."
@@Tyler-vu8yrWhich is interesting because TES I - IV play within less than 35 years and at least for Aerna and Daggerfall the birthdates of the hero are known to be 3E 370 and 3E 375 The biggest gap is actually from Daggerfall to Morrowind with 22 years. Which means that atleast two, possibly three are alive at the same time.
@HappyBeezerStudios Considering the Neverrine is biologically immortal due to the Corpus Disease. He should still be alive by Skyrim too.
But time flows differently according to the prince and akatosh has no Power over it
I'm going to be pissed if they retcon the dwemer to have worship a forgotten prince and that's why they are so advanced.
That’s not gonna happen it’s already been pretty much established they are anti - god not sure about atheist but they are definitely anti god (all of them as far as I know )
Remember, the forgotten Prince was destroyed before ANY mortal walked on Nirn; the passage about the Deadlight realm describes how Dagon chased the forgotten Prince to their realm and killed them "before your kind walked", so the Dwemer's advancements would have nothing to do with the Prince (although I'd imagine they'd be quite pleased with the Dwemer's scientific advancements)
I kinda like the thought that maybe this dead god was one of or many of the dwemer. most of the beings we see that simply just get so powerful that they disappear(like the augur) presumably achieve Chim, which in the case of Vivec and Tiber Septim/Talos they achieved godhood and essentially made it so that they as gods always existed within the world, it wouldn't be farfetched to me that a dwemer or a whole group of them caused a dragon break and thrust themselves back in time
I find one of his many titles “Guardian of the Unseen” to be especially interesting here. Since Ithelia is known as “the Unseen”. It reminds me a lot of how Vahlok the Jailor was seen as the “guardian” of Miraak, in the story “The Guardian and the Traitor”.
There’s not really a connection other than both guarding someone else, in the “prison guard” sort of way. Just thought it was a cool coincidence
Hmm…
I really like the new lore regarding Daedric Princes that ESO has given us. Supposed rules that the Daedric Princes follow, hidden or dead princes. Hope they can bring in some of the lore from ESO into TES6.
My question is: Could "dead" Deadric Princes be brought back to relevance by mortals?
Would spreading of faith in dead Deadric Princes bring them back?
This dude has a legitimate gift for imagery. The various adjectives and the like that are used here are top notch. He also has an aptitude for alliteration.
I think it's worth noting, in the portion of Deadlight being lost to the void at 1:15:00 , that the daedric princes themselves ARE the plane of Oblivion, they are their plane and their plane is them- therefore, being defeated as a prince, or "killed" as we can put it, would result in the realm's overall weakening if not its shattering. If we see the planes as bubbles (as we do the Aedric ones, due to mortal nature.) then we can interpret it as a "popping bubble", whatever was within is now kind of scattering. This is to give you credit, of course! Great theories as always, this one especially fascinated me. Hell, we can say that it makes a whole lot of sense, since Oblivion is ultimately a space (or spaces) in the void.
And if a bubble pops, it splashes around. leaving droplets, which become pocket realms.
But not all planes of Oblivion are controlled by daedric princes. And daedric princes aren't limited to a single realm.
Umbra created Umbriel by splitting off a piece of Clavicus Vile's realm, but then, Umbra was also split of from Clavicus Vile.
The Chimer created Sadal's prison to, well imprison Sadal
Arch mage Shalidor created a plane
The khajiit lich Arum-Khal created a plane
Mankar Cameron created a plane (his paradise)
Atronachs come from their own dedicated planes
The Hist have their own plane
The Ideal Masters have the Soul Cairn
Bad Man's Hallows is owned by a minor daedra lord who takes on the form of a tree.
Now I'm wondering two things: were Ithelia and Jyggalag banished at the same time? And what if any connection does Sotha Sil have to Ithelia? I am also wondering who Ithelia could be? Considering the lore of Shivering Isles, Jyggalag was turned into Sheogorath. So could Ithelia be hiding in plain sight as another character without her memory? Could she be wandering the plains of Oblivion as some minor Daedra that has no idea she is a Daedric Prince? It's very intriguing.
Radical take (and likely untrue but fun to think about):
Ithelia is the player character of various Elder Scrolls games. A prince who has the power to change fate? This fits with a lot of the core concepts of the player character being the most important/significant figure of their eras, in regards to upholding or breaking the thread of prophecy. And who but gamers could be represented by glowing LED lights? XD
@@Karliff5 I'd love to see a mod that transports the player back in time, or maybe into a shadow of that time to find out who Ithelia was. It would be interesting. Sort of like when the player ends up in Mankar Camoran's Paradise in Oblivion to recover the Amulet of Kings.
@@Karliff5 The player character doesn't change fate, they (help) fulfill prophesies after all. The player character is most likely Lorkhan/Shor. Mankar Camoran might be right and Nirn is Lorkhan's realm.
yeah i do enjoy what they did with the Fargrave chapter, like when playing it the first time i was like "oh could this be a reference to Jyggalag" but you really dig in the questions of the realm really build up.
Plus Fargrave itself and it's possible relation to Ithelia now, a unruled realm who's a crossroad of paths leading all over Oblivion and beyond.
Your Detective series is by far my favorite. When first playing Necrom I didn't even connect Deadlight to a Prince. Really gotta go back and pay attention now.
Can't help but think Ithelia may have had a rivalry with Nocturnal and Mora as both of their current spheres remind me of Ithelia.
Deadlight Prince of Energy being consumed by Dagon would make sense why there wasn't the required energy to create a portal from inside He'd siphon the Princes energy in his attack.
I'm envisioning something akin to The Grey March consuming other planes before he was cursed as Sheogorath.
There are only a handful of video series that make me as happy as your Elder Scrolls Detective series.
A clarification for Ithelia. Her titles as the mistress of the untraveled road and Prince of Paths, with the abilities to change fate. Speak more about free will than anything else. Mora is more about destiny, if you look at all of his eyes they are simply a straight line with two points.
Yes, Hermaeus Mora is more about set destiny and maybe even prophecy. Ithalia sounds like she could change that. Which could potentially be incredibly dangerous because the entire Elder Scrolls universe runs on a wheel made of song and *prophecy*
@@NuniixoIt’s possible Ithelia is the Daedric Prince of Destiny and Free Will. Could it be that Ithelia created the Elder Scrolls to record future destinies and prophecies she forsaw?
@@assassinwolf2719 That is not possible as the scrolls are written in Aedric script, which the Daedra are unable to use
@@Nuniixo It’s unknown who created the Elder Scrolls. There only theories that the Aedra created it and hasn’t been confirmed.
an explanation for the energy now abundant in the realm might be that Dagon is feeding some of his energy into the realm so the cultists can function there. it would also explain the red energy in the citadel as he would focus his power there
I think back to the Shivering Isles DLC, and how Jygalagg *became* Sheogorath when he was changed by the other Princes. What if a "destroyed" Prince isn't mantled by their destroyer, but simply *becomes* them? The Daedra are forever being reborn and reconstructed. Maybe tales of their destruction are simply them changing forms?
I recently saw a video describe Peryite as the prince of order, which confused the hell out of me because of the amount of time I’ve spent playing shivering isles. I did some research and saw one theory speculating on subtle differences between Peryite enforcing the natural order and Jyggalag seeking to impose his own order, after watching this video my current head cannon is the much more appealing thought of Peryite inheriting the title after imposing the plague of madness on Jyggalag; it’s admittedly not a perfect theory and I’m sure someone more versed in the lore will come along and ruin it in no time, but I much prefer him being bestowed the title in a further attempt to “kill” the original prince of order, instead of a subtle difference in meanings behind two princes having the same title.
I think this theory has some actual solid evidence, nice job. Also the name of dead light itself kind of hints to this. it can be a reference to the defeated prince because "their light has gone out" but also be a reference to the attribute of the plane. If the deadlights originally belonged to a prince of energy they no longer serve that function. And what is an attribute of light? thats right, energy... the name deadlight is pretty on the nose when you think about it
I want to say, I think it is less that Mora inherited Ithelia's spheres. "Guardian of the Unseen" could very well mean that he protects fate from change (which Ithelia would be anathema to), or he is the guardian of Ithelia the Unseen's hidden existence. He also reads the tides fate, which Ithelia could change on a whim - something Mora seems either unable or unwilling to do, and which seems to terrify him as it effectively renders anything he reads subject to change and thus oddly unknowable to the Knower of the Unknowable.
Thank you! I was looking for a comment like this one, that part of the theory was driving me nuts and I was kind of surprised that alternative wasn't mentioned in the video.
The real question is with so many princes running around oblivion where is the king at?
Wouldn't that technically be the original spirit anu, or the godhead? (If that's its name)
@@varlak9061No. Akatosh is the avatar of Anu. And its pretty clear that he doesn't like The Daedric Princes.
@@haydeen6535 right, still would make him the king though. I dont see how not liking something doesnt make it true. Just like kings have good sons and bad ones too. Like God, with Satan. Hes still one of his angels.
58:13 If I am not mistaken, the only place we saw some kind of lightning storage, or lightning doing something is in Soul Cairn in Skyrim, where you can create black soul gems
Honestly, the energy part could be expounded more. The mad scientist Daedric Prince's could be ambition and change as well. Progress at all costs, morality and ethics be damned.
I have the blanket. It kept me warm when I had covid and now it's my favorite nap blanket.
Much love for you as it seems like your voice had taken a hit yet you still powered through to give us this epic video!
To quote Sheogorath "Everything changes. Even Daedric Princes. Especially Daedric Princes."
It would not surprise me one bit if Daedra were not even born as princes, but rather become as such through collecting concepts for their portfolio. Arising from the chaotic soup of conflict and lesser concepts.
What if that's one of the things that Lyranth is trying to do?
I love detective episodes on ESO! I’ve spent way too many hours on this game than The Elder Scrolls V. Keep up the intriguing and well put-together work Camel!! Bless
I only found your channel recently before christmas and im amazed by the level of detail there is in your videos. There is so much in the elder scrolls games that i missed whilist playing them. keep up the good work.
One small thing on the Vestige: you are no longer souless by the end of the bad main quest.
Merida wrests your souls from Molag Bal and you recover it after defeating him. I think that undoes the drastic flesh vessel you spoke of.
I feel like prince Ithelia is the cause of the elder scrolls games she opens up someone’s paths. I think she allows the main characters in every game to make their own fate and that’s why dragon breaks occur for most of the games in the lore. Also Morrowind your chosen by Azura and in oblivion you become shegorath so you were chosen by different princes in those games which is why the lore for what happened in game is more set in stone when it come to oblivion and Morrowind
There new lore which states “it is said that prisoners exist by Ithelia’s will.”
Always love your detective work Camel ❤
14:56 I just want to read a book written by Camel at this point, the descriptions are easily the coolest parts of these videos to me
That was great, love how deep you’ve been diving into the lore.
Another hour of auditory bliss
Just a throw away idea but what if the Dwemer were supposed to be followers of this daedric prince? But since the prince no longer exist, they are godless and simply dismiss the divinity of the others.
There's a canon reason stated for why the dwemer don't worship deadric princes. If I remember correctly it had something to do with them being more focused on knowledge and research
Now that, is fucking awesome. Elder scrolls lore is always expanding and adding new things. Its so cool!
If there was a Daedric Prince of Energy, I could see why a prince like Dagon would find them to be his enemy. Think about it. A prince that harnesses energy with a structured way of doing things is an affront to destruction and constant change. Also if this prince were to return one day, they'd either be one of reason and logic (perhaps peaceful) or industrial in a semblance of mechanized warfare (non peaceful). This revelation of Dead Light's existence opens many possibilities...
The blue charging stones also being red reminds me of nirnroot, which changes color to adapt to its environment (initially yellow, then blue, with a red varient).
Point of order: while Mehrunes Dagon does only have the one specific reference to "energy" being within his sphere, that's far from the only time this is alluded to. Indeed, there are multiple references to the Sun in connection to him, most notably in the opening prayers of the PGE3 and his connections to the Mythic Dawn. In fact, these allusions, in combination with the whole Leaper Demon King thing from the Aldudaggas, lead many to suspect that Dagon was once Magnus some time before the Magna-Ge fused him with Mehrunes the Razor in the bowels of Lyg.
You are pretty much the only one doing deep dives into eso lore. Nice.
Ooo, wonderful!
Had been hoping you’d want to delve into this part of ES lore. ESO has brought in some very interesting aspects, Deadlight from the Deadlands DLC being one of them.
Thank you, Camelworks!
Personally I find ESO lore boring and stupid compared to the real games!(sadly)
@@DavidTheConkererdo you even try to Step in ? The best stories are in eso if you dont rush and only Listen.
Loved the video! With regards to Essential Energy, my interpretation links this to the Realms of Oblivion being continuations/reflections of their Daedric masters. Hermaeus mora and others state that they are their realms, and though they can be separated/impeded from communicating with one another (such as Hermaeus mora being temporarily blinded/cut off from Apocrypha), they are one and the same at some deep fundamental level.
If the Daedric Prince of Deadlight was rendered so powerless and inconsequential to be essentially dead, or as dead as a Daedric Prince can be, then it stands to reason that their Essential Energy flowing into their realm would also be diminished. But given that their Essential Energy is the very thing that imposes structure and order on their realm, and thus separates it from being the Void, then the loss of Energy in this sense might be less literal and scientific than we take it to mean, and rather more metaphysical, as without this constant flow of Daedric Essential Energy coming from the Dead Prince, the realm is degrading back to the 'natural state' of the absence of order: i.e. the Void.
Anyway, what do I know? I'm a baboon on my best days. Fantastic video, keep it up!
Dead Light is a fantastic fantasy name for Electricity!
Thank you for making these videos, I used to play eso for the lore-stories but its no longer in my budget, and these videos help bring back the nostliga and i don't miss out on elder scroll lore
I don't play ESO, so this is really fascinating for me.
Thank you! 💙🐪
LOVE the fact that you narrate the Vestiges side of these conversations. It is so helpful and fun!! Thank you!
I really hope we get to see more of Deadlight. If I'm not mistaken, didn't the Aylids (I forget how to spell them) use what is basically batteries of the same color? Maybe I'm remembering wrong, but it reminds me alot of the first places I explored in Oblivion
Great to se you back and one of your best episodes have you got a cold if so get well soon
Another terrific video Camel! 🐪 I indeed learned something new about the Elder Scrolls. Also, I have some insight on Daedric Princes being destroyed. Vivec seemingly implies that the number 16 is a constant, since that’s how many spaces there are between the parts of the wheel outside of Mundus. So, a constant for what? Could mean that there’s always precisely 16 Princes, or simply that there’s 16 Main Plains of Oblivion, with Pocket Realms in them.
I think you’re right about Dagon inheriting the sphere of Energy from the Prince of Deadlight. So, if he conquered Deadlight then maybe that’s the original name for what’s now the Deadlands. Assuming that the Deadlands is a Main Plane and not a Pocket Realm, and that Dagon indeed is not an original Prince, that would mean the Deadlands wasn’t originally his. Thus, once belonged to another Daedric Prince, which could be the Prince of Deadlight.
Also, not sure if you considered this, but “Deadlight” could be an homage to “the Deadlights” from “It.” So, maybe this forgotten Prince was an Elder Scrolls Pennywise?
Thank you for giving me something to watch while I’m babysitting puppies! 😃
I always thought that Vivec being...wrong. He until achieved CHIM was a mortal pretending to be a God. And we know there were countlass Et'Ada who choose to bail on creation and simply doesn't care for the Mortal Realm and Oblivion being infinite I at least assume there are many MANY more princes just...out of reach. Ithelia is a special case since taking Mora's word at face value she could have unreaveled the Mundus and Daedric lords we know LOVE Mundus thus Mora stopping her. And perhaps something even more going on. Politics of oblivion is quite complex after all.
@@berilsevvalbekret772 Since we're talking timeless pre-creatia, it's possible there were more than Princes who hung around going 'oooo shiny' at the Mundus, but by the time of Convention and it all stabilized all but the 16 were 'dead' or driven out of Oblivion? 16 Constants emerging out of the infinite possibilities.
The probelm with taking everything Vivec states as undeniable truth is that Vivec is a giant liar and faker. That's kind of his schtick. He has a lot of wise things to say, but who is to say how much of it is true.
The skeleton at the fire with the crib at 20:35 is a reference to Samuel Taylor Coleridge's poem "Frost at Midnight."
They could have been a darker twin of Meridia. Also, an easier possible nickname for the dead Daedric Prince of Deadlight is P Diddy.
Love you and your content! Seeing a new Camel video in the sub feed is just what my dopamine level needs, everytime. Anyway, here is my algorithm-satisfying comment. Keep it up, cheers mate! 🐪❤
On a different note, if Deadlight is slowly drifting into the void because Daegon destroyed it's Deadric Prince, Daegon is a complete prick, since he's gifted it to his faithful 😂
A few Followers are expendable to Dagon, probably. He isn’t the coddling type. 😁
@@loraelstad8941 yes but expendable tends to mean, willing to let them die during a war. Like sacrificing the mythic dawn. Not, pretend to reward them, then dump them on a plane of Oblivion that's drifting into the void. That's something you do to your enemies, not your own troops.
what an episode for my birthday! Thank you so much Camel!
Never clicked on something so fast
Clicked as soon as I saw it
Swear to Stendarr
Same lol
Adhd energy is me having to rewind to the beginning about 50 times bc I keep zoning out bc your voice is just so soothing. This is a compliment bc I love the lore enough to rewind 50 times lmaoooo
the king is BACK
I do have the blanket and it is really well made and warm.
Deadlight could be related to the new Daedric Prince that Mora mentioned
I love your content. Appreciate the work you do. My mind is blown. A forgotten prince! That is so cool.
I think this missing Daedra was essential to the Ayleids.
When she was Forgotten, the Humans started gaining ground against them.
But wasn't stated that she was forgotten before mortals walked reality or the planet
@@varlak9061 then why would there be temples built to her?
Might just mean Human Mortals....
Hmm maybe it was once "everlight". Also perhaps another part of the sphere of the prince was renual and things eternal (it would be a point of conflict and you did point out the renewable energy)
Here's a possibility- Merune's Dagon has two backstories- first as the prince born of hope and the revolution that destroyed the Kalpa that Mollag Baal Ruled, and the Second is of a once kindly being who saved remnants of prior Kalpas but was cursed by Alduin to destroy all what he once saved.
Perhaps these two iterations of Dagon fought and eventually merged and then decimated the Realm of Deadlight so that they could not separate again.
Also, given the possibility of a prince mantling another Prince's Domain, Why didn't any of the other princes try mantling Jyggalag, and instead go out of their way to transfigure him into Sheogorath? Did they fear a conflict being unleashed over control over his domain? Or was his domain too different from any of the other princes that they couldn't properly do so?
Great video! You can tell so much work went into it.
It really makes you wonder about the daedric princes though. For beings so intrinsically linked with the concept of change, they sure do fear it. Though I guess part of Mora's sphere is fate so he would disdain its opposite.
Also great video, it was incredibly interesting. Also you managed to invest me into eso lore - since I usually don't get that involved in it. (Mainly cos it feels a lot like a massive retcon.) But this, this is new. So well done; it was worth the wait.
What a great way to wake up on a sunny sunday afternoon 😂😂😂😂😂 time to watch! Time to enjoy!!
Damn, here it's a rainy sunday in the early afternoon lol
What if Ithelia was supporting the Player Character in ALL the Elder Scrolls games? We’re bound to her and resurrected when she wants to change things in the world and mess with her siblings as revenge. Allowing us to be good, evil, and whatever else we feel like each playthrough.
Very cool!! Also wanted to say I was terrified of playing through the black books, but once I watched your vid exploring the whole plane that helped a lot. Finished the miraak quest finally!
Alright, as long as I have been watching your video, when you mentioned the pillars, a really crazy theory that may be plausible came in my mind.
Even thought what remains of what Deadlight was before it came to this reminds some place in Cold Harbour maybe, the energy crystals on the pillars look like a lot like Aetherium Crystals. Where do we find those ? In Dwemer ruins and technology. Many of us have speculated that in Skyrim about the "Altar of Xrib" that is either a deity worshiped by the Falmer or a forgotten God that the Dwemer used to worship before they got into tonal manipulation and devoided to logic, rejecting the belief in Gods.
So my question to all of you, my either far fetched or maybe plausible theory is, what if that Xrib that we do know next to nothing as well was indeed a Dwemer God / a Daedric Prince worshiped by the Dwemer in the past, judging by the remnants resembling Aetherium Crystals and the fact that Dwemer technology and architecture seem to be extremely otherworldly and advanced compared to what is present in Nirn. Is Xrib probably the "forgotten" Daedric Prince, defeated by Dagon, hence also the Dwemer stopped believing and rejected the Gods ? And one step further would be that did the Dwemer disappeared or got time and plain displaced, because instead of trying to achieve godhood for themselves or become one with the Universe, actually tried to resurect their forgotten God and possibly Master (Heart of Lorkhan, Tools of Kagrenak, The Numidium) ?
That's my speculation by that tiny detail I observed. Which might be either completely bonkers or actually does make some sense.
Hi Camel!
This is one of my favorite series on RUclips.
I'm definitely for the idea of more daedric princes than just using the same ones over and over.
The way she says "Mortle" takes me straight back to the Shivering Isles❤
Right on Time
Loved this video on lost deadric princes and lore around them. Keep up the good work
Any kind of technological innovation or advancement always makes me think of the Dwemer. I wonder if the prince of deadlight was the patron god of the Dwemer, and after their defeat, was essentially retconned and forgotten about by even the most devout followers.
1:02:24 anyone else reminded of the Dwarves? Maybe this Prince was like… a patron deity of the dwarves?
I dunno, I still feel like the dead daedric prince of the dead light and Ithelia are the same, even if that means two daedric princes are dipping into the dead one’s lost proficiencies. It could be that Mehrunes tried to kill her, failed, went to Hermaeus, who then made everyone forget she existed. Like, even the glowing symbols on her skin match the aesthetic of the Deadlights. Plus, Hermaeus and Mehrunes did work together before to take down Molag, so them working together isn’t impossible. Plus if the theory of the Dwarves not being dead, but simply transported into the 9th era, is true and not scrapped, then who else but the Prince of Altering Fate would be able to do so? Plus, look at the Dwarven advanced tech, and the advanced tech of the Deadlights. They feel like two flavors of the same thing, IMO. Then again, that’s my theory.
Okay, i can't believe i didn't put it together sooner, i thought it was like a Daedric Lord or something not a Prince but now, wow I'm last for words
...what's a Daedric lord who isn't a prince?
@@grilledleeks6514 There's the Bad Man the Daedric Tree in the public dungeon of Glenumbra, Crow Mother of the Crow's Wood and Hollowjack a dread lord that feeds off mortal fears. And the Demiprince of the Maelstrom Arena. The title of Deadra Lord is like a nobility among the common Kyn and other forms of Daedra whilst the Princes are the undisputed kings and Queens of Oblivion only challenged by eachother. It's a common miss conception that Daedric Lords and Daedric Prince's are the same thing
@majialthedarkprince2403 what labels them as lord? Is there a hierarchy listed somewhere?
If you don't have your own plane of oblivion to lord over, I highly doubt any other daedra call you lord
Something that I haven’t seen anyone mention that could support your “Deadlight is in the Void” theory is the constant lightning strikes. In the clip you showed of Greyhaven, we saw constant lightning strikes, just as we see in all the clips of Deadlight
Any information on why dagon went to such lenths to completely destroy this forgotten prince? What he do to piss him off so much
What if Ithalia changed the fate of Lyg, from which Dagon was effectively created from, and he wanted some revenge or something
The idea of a daedric price absorbing power of other princes makes some sense.
After all, in many cultures around the world, some mythological gods would absorb traits from other minor gods. Gods with similar functions or similar traits can be absorbed into one god.
Greek gods having several different origins and cultures, then turning into the Greek gods we know today. Or the Egyptian God Isis, absorbing the attributes of other gods and goddesses.
In a sense, those original gods are dead and forgotten. But the Greek, Egyptian, etc, gods we’re familiar with take over their realms and are remembered.
Great video!
Hooray! It's here! Thank you Camel! ❤
No go and enjoy Starfield as you are longing to😁
Great work! Deadlands was my favorite TES content so far.
Whether people like it or not, ESO is canon. I'm glad that you recognize that, Camel. c:
So good. I missed your videos, I guess RUclips stopped recommending them for some reason. Hopefully now it’ll recommend them again as I am subscribed.
SHOUT OUT 😊
I'm just happy to see content creators using ESO for their TES lore videos, so many ignore ESO.