I don't even know why they introduced the back tingly concept for super saiyan. Super saiyan was ALWAYS about the inner anger and frustration that a saiyan felt. The aura was a bright yellow kinda like a flame and the gold hair represented the ascension that the saiyan went through. I can't believe they spat on probably the most iconic form of dragon ball.
You know, if they had written the tournament of power in a way that they had 3-4 months to prepare(I give her 3-4 months cuz she's super strong in base, so it's ok if it's 3-4 months only,even if she's not a martial arts master like goku) then they could have cabba try to enrage caulifla, it fails as quickly as it did in the actual show, then explain to her that she has to concentrate ki on her back in a very specific way. Caulifla sits down in a meditating potision and concentrates ki on her back for like, a month, like fricking budda(so the authors could empathize on the Buddhism reference they made with the ki in the back thing), thus being the first known saiyan to unlock ssj with meditation alone(which would be because she's a genius and all) and the rest of the months training to master ssj and unlock ssj2(since she's already super strong and is a genius, it kinda makes sense). I would love that. There were MANY plot points in super were I thought "wow this is such a cool idea that is done very horribly". Trust me, many times. It's like they found gold and smeared it in crap.
If anything i thought the back tingles was a fine way to explain how to regularly transform...after a saiyan had already unlocked the form. But caulifla didn't have it unlocked yet so it feels like an ass pull. Especially since we were told that universe's saiyans are naturally way stronger than universe 7's. It pisses me off the manga skips over this like that's a better alternative. Super has a major problem with asspulling characters powers for no reason. Why can't characters train under harsh conditions off screen for a while? Goku and vegeta get fair treatment in that regard but even then the writers fuck it up because tien, buu, goten, trunks, piccolo etc get shit on while trunks, 17, frieza and broly get major ass pulls.
My biggest problem with super is how they changed Goku. I understand that Goku is no Superman but it's not like that he only fights for the sake of fighting. In Dragon Ball Z, he had his loved ones in mind while training. Goku's perspective on life changed after training with Kami. From there on, he would only kill if it's the last resort. It's not just that he wants new training partners. I really loved how you saw Goku growing up as a naive boy living in the woods growing into a seasoned martial arts fighter
@@olofacosta3192 his emotional growth is league ahead of what he was in z. The god form is somewhat symbolic of thisgrowth. He no longer gains power through rage but control. In super He doesn’t react only physically with his opponents but emotionally and philosophically as well. The blue form and ui compliment this.. He knows buu has been reincarnated somewhere so his true arch is being a teacher one day.
@@DCBiscuit Just like Toriyama you mean. The joke is that Toriyama just kinda forgot a lot of things along the way, such as the entire character of Launch.
@@Jane-oz7pp dude toriyama didn’t even make supers plot it was his brother that wanted to toriyama just made the manga as he didn’t care that much for the anime
The worst thing they did to Picollo is the fact that they made him a freaking narrator! Everything that happens picollo has to tell us exactly what happened. “He’s changed, he’s dropped from his god form to a mere super saiyan, yes, thank you for the information we JUST SAW
Well I hate how in the movie shenron gave Piccolo a new transformation on top of his first new form(which he actually earned through training) like what. I think it was said in DBZ only porunga can make those kinds of wishes. Also Gohans form was made by other creators (I know that ssj original design was basically Beast Gohan)but it was never put on screen until El Blanco was a thing and AF expanded Gohans form with ssj6(I know Akira Toriyama approved and the creator is now making Super) Hell Granolah arc is just baby arc but not an evil Saiyan, and Morro arc is cell saga. The whole super series is a big what if mainly TOP. BOG was the only movie and arc I liked, Frieza coming back was cool, but Vegeta should have won. Hit was the only thing I liked in U6 arc and I guess there being more Saiyan's including female. Goku black should have been Gohan Black(both series and manga are good) Frieza should have been with cell for TOP and replace Tien. Broly is just an amalgamation of DBZ Broly and Fusion Reborn.Side Note: ssj god should have been Goku's limit until UI ssj Blue just felt like a waste of a form, but kaioken blue was dope, but not as dope as ssj God UI. Goku's avatar form is just a susanoo from Naruto.
Super is shit but as a 29 years old who is not into anime anymore I would still defend Orange piccolo. It’s his dragon and it was a form that Piccolo probably could have reached later on but Shenron threw him a little extra. Also we needed a new Namekian form as it has lately been all about freaking Saiyans.
@In Regeneratione >12 universes >12 hypothetical infinite possibilities Toriyama: let's immediately limit the universes and make the strongest fighters fight so no one has interest in these universes outside of these characters
@@joshgroban5291 Honestly thats what got me the most, i like super alot but like, the TOP arc, like you shot yourself in the foot by immediately erasing all kinds of suspense.
I loved the idea of how Toppo thought Goku was a villain because it was his idea of starting the tournament of power which put the safety of all the universes in jeopardy, just to fill Goku’s love of fighting. That was an intriguing concept they could’ve explored, how Goku’s hubris is putting innocents in danger, but they threw it away by saying “actually Zeno was going to destroy them anyway so Goku really saved the universes by giving everyone a fighting chance.” I thought that was a cheap scapegoat.
I'm ngl i can't remember much, but i thought xeno was gonna destroy alot of the universes and TOP idea from goku. kinda preserved them, thou i could be off the mark because its been a long while
Unless I'm just misremembering something, I find it stupid that Goku was scolded for just suggesting a tournament and then it was decided, "We kill the losers!"
@@valydendor4472 xeno had already intended to just erase the universes included in TOP but yeah it felt kinda stupid imo that they would destroy them for not being strong enough
Definitely was a cheap a scapegoat and such bullshit, it’s like the writers were like “wait the fans are right that’s bad for Gokus character so let’s just say this instead” so lazy and shit writing.
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
BS dude..super deserves way more credit than that. UI in EP 109-110 can be considered top 10 dragon ball moments of all time. The Goku black arc, the new characters introduced..you obviously did not watch it
@@shaochiavang actually I did, I’ve watched the whole show and ultra instinct is just another shell to sell toys like every other transformation in super (blue, trunks ss rage, rose, and instinct)
@@Jose-st3fq if you watch the entire DBS series then how can you say it was better. That's insane. GT had their moments but in no way had the story arc that the Goku black or TOP had. On top of that DBS introduced new well written characters such as beerus, whis, jiren and the gods of the other universe which has not even been explored yet. Dbs wasn't this great show but it wassnt as bad as you make it to be. EP 109-110 broke the site cuz so much people were trying to stream it. Many things in DBS can also be considered top moments in the dragon ball world also and that's a long list to beat out spots for.
@@shaochiavang doesn’t mean I’m a gt super fan but you’ll get on ur knees to pleasure Toei for making a cash grab show that’s a disgrace to the og dragon ball and dragon ball z run
DBS just doesn’t have the high stakes and genuine moments that made the audience feel something. Too many power ups and I honestly hate SSB. I just didn’t like it.
Honestly, it’s not the power ups that doesn’t make sense. Goku is completely okay. it’s simply Toriyama making his other characters exponentially stronger over the sagas just to make them look tough for the plot. Take Android 17 for example when he was on par with SSB Goku. He wouldn’t of even stand a chance against SSJ 2 back in Z. This is the only problem i have with Super.
I think Super Saiyan God should have been a goal post to reach throughout the series. Goku achieves god in the beginning as it happens. Then cant get it again without help from the other saiyans, so he and Vegeta strive to get it without help throughout the whole series. That way god power doesnt get undermined. They really backed themselves into a corner by having God power levels be so easily obtained.
@@austin31697 but it was though lol especially to the viewer. He's out training with whis and sh*t and, ope, well looky here, vegeta has God power already.
@@damondriver6363 intense training with Whis isn't easy. Vegeta spent hard work and time getting it, even if it was off screen. Goku made a wish and made saiyans give him the power Vegeta pushed himself to get it
@@IAMSONICTH3H3DG3H0G "Even if it was off screen." Let me stop you right there, that means that it didn't take work. That's not how storytelling, or writing works.
Imagine if staying calm to keep the blue/UI form was an actual challenge. And if they got too riled up, they'd lose the form until they calmed back down. The enemy might goad them and attack their friends. And you could have some internal struggles with them suppressing the rage they usually use to power up during fights. It might have actually felt like a unique thing rather than a generic power up.
EXACTLY. That’s never portrayed correctly in the show! It would be so interesting to see them accidentally fall out of the form if they can maintain their emotions or remain focused while in a fight.
Yeah they could use the form when raging but they wouldn’t be able to contain it nor use it at it’s fullest. The calm and tranquil will allow Goku and Vegeta to use SSB to it’s fullest.
It would also be an incredibly interesting twist on the original concept with Super Saiyan 1 and 2. Goku at first became far more violent and brutal when he transformed, and Gohan was even more extreme turning downright sadistic. Completely twisting that and having a form which works on the exact opposite rules would be really unique. It could also lead to good character stuff. You'd assume Vegeta would be worse at this for obvious reasons, but he spent 20 years with his empire dead and as a lackey to Frieza. He's got more control over himself than anyone else, or else he'd be dead. The lack of self-control is a response to the constant need for controlling himself, he just can't keep the mask on 24/7. Goku has no self-control at all. It would be really neat for Vegeta to actually be better with the best form because controlling empathy and compassion is his strong suit.
The fact that Goten and Trunks look exactly like they did in Buu Saga if not younger is actually REALLY insulting. To give you a comparison, Kid Trunks is at the same age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died. Please, just take a moment to compare Young Future Trunks from the Future Trunks Special with Super's Kid Trunks. It's ridiculous.
The big difference to me between Super and GT is that you can feel that GT was made by someone who genuinely enjoyed Dragonball and put effort into it but Super just feels hollow.
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 most of the time gt wasnt really good the only things that hoestly was really amazing was obviously ss4 it was a new unique transformation that fit goku and vegeta, the shadow dragons was an interesting concept sometimes it felt off but was still ok to good if im being honestly, the ending was the best thing from GT because it felt exactly like an ending it was emotional and it felt like the true end and yet an offscreen beginning fr the characters and the ones to come
I agree both of their ideas are intresting on their own (still I like gt's more) but the overall execution of them leaves so much to be desiredz they're quite underwhelming
@@jantheking7028 he loves Both Super and GT equally, he also expose the flaws of GT as well. In fact he is currently making a GT fan manga fixing the flaws of GT and making it into an interesting story. Watch his Dragon Ball GT: Redemption video and you’ll see.
@@jantheking7028 dude he said it himself that he loves both GT and Super equally. Who knows he might plan on making a Dragon Ball Super Redemption manga as well in the future.
I actually loved the search for the black star ball, it was like a grander scale of the early DB adventure episodes which I absolutely loved and still go back to from time to time. However, while I did like the concept of Pan at first, I just wished her character got proper development instead of always being a plot catalyst (we did see a bit of this during the dr miyuu part of the arc) and while not everyone is annoyed by power levels, when I watched GT, Goku saying Rildo is around the level of Buu while he was fighting him in his weakened, base kid form bothered me.
I just realized how insanely stupid it is that Gohan can apparently become not just as strong as he was but even stronger with basically a day's worth of training, yet he was able to let himself go so badly that he couldn't even handle regular SSJ. Not even one day, a single day within several years. He has a power to protect his world but he can't spare even few hours per year to keep it up. That's honestly more irresponsible than anything Goku has ever done and just plain lazy. Like imagine if you could become Eddie Hall strong by just visiting gym once per year and you couldn't bring yourself to do even that much. You'd have to be the biggest loser ever to not do that. I'm sure they didn't wanna potray Gohan to be that bad but that's what you get when you can't pick your lane and stay in it when it comes character's training speed.
The very fact that Gohan in like a days worth of training could spar with Goku highlights my other issue with Super, the power scaling sucks, whats the point of Goku and Vegeta constantly training to reach new heights just for others (Frieza, Gohan, 17, Caulifla etc) to reach the same heights with 1/1000000 of the amount of training
@@Lulu-ew7ohit’s not the writer it is the fans. Gohan was ment to replace Goku by Akira the writer’s will. However, DBZ was a manga designed for japanese boys. In Shonen Jump there were character popularity polls. Gohan was not popular enough among japanese boys so they brought back Goku. Gohan was ruined by the fans.
@@roberth4395yeah no you're both wrong it's toei. This is about money people nobody cares about your entertainment the entertainment you get is solely to make more money. They'll keep the story decent enough for it to keep going so they can sell more toys that's where the real money is why do you think Goku has numerous forms with different hair colors?They know they can get away with bad writing because most watchers are kids teens and idiots. People that mostly watch anime for fighting and transformation can barely analyze a story and they care even less so why would they up their writing? So yeah I guess you're partly right the fans are also at fault.
My issue with Super is that it doesn’t feel like it has stakes or suspense. In dragon ball z, we had the frieza saga which gave us the iconic super saiyan transformation but it was a journey to reach that point and one that was worth it. In Super, it just feels like generic anime in some parts and the way some of the other characters are treated is just sad.
In Dragon Ball Z, no character was left behind. Even in the Cell Saga, Yamcha, Tien, and even Chi-Chi contributed. But then you look at Super, and wonder where every other Z Fighter went. At this point, the only important ones are the Saiyans and Piccolo. And then there's the repeated bastardization and humiliation of one of the most memorable villains in anime, Frieza. Goku and Vegeta have gotten so powerful, that this once mighty threat is just a weekly "we have to deal with you, send you back to hell, and then repeat ad nauseam" comic book villain. That's honestly disheartening.
At least in Frieza saga and Cell Saga it had a lot stakes and suspense! At least they had to think of something in order to get the job done. In this tournament of power, there were so many problems that I lose count. I couldn't tell where is the ring out is at since they were like jumping on floating rocks. Can't they quickly repair it? It's so similar to the Cell games since Cell blow the ring up then they didn't have to worry about the ring anymore.
Super is like bad fanfiction. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Poorly executed. There aren't even motivations, it's all 'eh, I guess I'll do this' or 'I need to get stronger because.' Full of prejudice (ie it's all goku and vegeta. To the point that they are themselves a parody of the Z counterpart, even regressing from previous arcs). Focuses on all the things fans like (fighting and forms) and none of the things fans don't realize they actually love (the cast, the unpredictability, failure + growth and the slice of life nature of its narrative). Sadly, even though it focuses completely on fighting there are never any stakes because with only two characters no one can really get hurt or die. Even the obstacles feel fake given the terrible scaling. It's all fluff. I'd take an arc about small time criminals trying to get revenge on the Z fighters for accidentally stopping a robbery over the twentieth universal scale power battle.
Everything about Super just screams bad fanfiction. "Super Saiyan... but BLUE!!!" "Female Broly!!!" "Evil version of Goku!!!" It's all so hilariously awful.
Yeahh... thing is, in my opinion... many of the fan mangas totally surpass Super in every way. They should've just animated Dragon Ball multiverse, or something.
Goku's arc was always having an enemy more powerful and dangerous than he could be expected to face, gaining a mentor that can help him best his enemy, then besting more enemies until he completely outgrew his old mentor and needed a new one. But by the Buu saga, he had already pretty much outgrown every mentor in the universe and the afterlife, beaten a nigh invincible intergalactic threat and made even his most devoted rival acknowledge his superiority. This leaves only two options for the character. One is basically what Toriyama wanted for him. Namely, to retire Goku from fighting and turn him into a mentor. With neither new teachers nor new rivals, all there is for him is to pass the torch to Uub. Let him get old and live vicariously through whatever pupils there may be who can keep up with his training. But no. The Dragon Ball franchise basically is the Goku franchise. If Gohan couldn't change that, Uub sure as hell couldn't. Goku can't be sidelined. So that leaves the second option -- just reset him. GT reset him by turning him back into a little kid whose other dragon balls. Super reset him by introducing literal gods and angels to act as his mentors and/or enemies and simultaneously undoing the better part of his nearly fifty years of experience. (Yeah, Goku has to be in his mid to late 40s in Super. Chew on that for a while.) Sadly, this makes Goku a rather lame character. He essentially stopped aging, changing or in any meaningful way even learning since his training on Yardrat. But here's one more problem with the Goku reset that is Dragon Ball Super. It's back to Muten Roshi preparing Goku for the big martial arts tournament. Only Whis is Roshi. And that makes Vegeta the new Krillin. Isn't that a depressing thought -- Vegeta being the new Krillin?
That was his arc post timeskip/Z. In Dragon Ball it was a bit different. Collecting a Dragon Ball, becoming a pupil to Master Roshi, entering a tournament, Jackie Chun (Roshi) entering to show Goku and Krillin that no matter how strong they are, there is always someone stronger, Red Ribbon Army which Roshi could have defeated but it was a fun adventure arc, another tournament where Goku gets to test his new skills, but Roshi's point beign proven by Goku being defeated yet again by Tenshinhan. Piccolo Daimao debut, Dragon Ball takes a 360, it becomes darker. First death, not of some randos but of Krillin and Roshi, Goku's family at that point. From that point onwards that's when the classic formula began. Arc 1 strong enemy. Arc 2 stronger enemy. Arc 3 even stronger enemy. Arc 4 super duper stronger enemy. It's fine tho, I liked the OG DB manga so much.
It's not depressing because Krillin is an AWESOME character, but yeah, the series should have let it go. The best thing would be to do a slice of life with Goku fooling around and the side Z fighters having their own thing
@@leultrainstinct406 I agreed with you on until the android thing he never forgot the time travel messed up the timeline causeing the virus to happen later. He has had dumb moments but the only bad ones were Buu and Cell. Cells was a gamble for gohan and not finishing off buu to let the new generation protect the earth was an oof.
As nonsensical as the arc was, I actually liked it..........until the ending. The final episode was an absolute disgrace. I'd be more willing to forgive Spirit Sword over whatever the hell happened there
@@premiumdude8353 real talk, him forgetting the senzu beans was bad enough but the evil containment wave part was horrible writing, how could he forget the seal for the rice container smh
Just like some star wars fans did with the sequels, I would gladly sign a petition to make DB Super non canon, this thing made me appreciate GT so much more.
Funny how at the start of the sequels, people were trashing the prequels. Then TLJ came out and the prequels ruled. Now even in the disney SW series they are doing stuff mostly in the prequel era, like Obi-wan (and still failing.
@@denkerbosu3551 I think they only dislike the prequel movies (*except episode 3 as it gotten a really nice amount of money*) until more lore came out like the two clone war shows,comics and novels to help make that help to become more likeable.
@@mrphauker and we will never forget neither forgive vegeta being a mf who dance, but you're 100% right dbs is such a bad fan fic that it made me nuts to think that its canon
The thing about Ribrienne... as a Magical Girl fan she was _extra_ annoying because she was meant to be an insult to Magical Girl characters- and she wasn't even a good mockery. She could have been done well as a parody- even a mean spirited one- and maybe even been funny, but they instead just wrote her to be as annoying as possible. It's like _Toriyama forgot_ that the series is meant to be fun, not annoying. And on top of that, *why would you create a character specifically to annoy fans, and then give them a solid, what, ten episodes of screentime?* I very nearly didn't bother finishing after her fourth time taking a spotlight.
To make the parody ironic, Toei owns Sailor Moon and Pretty Cure, so that means they made a joke that didn't quite work on a genre two out of four their most popular anime come from.
I really like Dragon Ball GT. It does have its problems, just like Super has its problems - however, I seem to notice the passion that was put into GT. The original Dragon Ball has been overshadowed by Z, and instead of making a Z clone - it seems that they tried to combine the two whilst also making its own concepts - Black Star Dragon Balls, Super Saiyan 4 being its own unique design and not just a hair dye. The Dragon Balls actually having purpose other than being a plot device. Unlike Super, GT actually has stakes and consequences thankfully taking place after the end of Z. As someone who had to adjust to his heritage and finally became proud of his heritage and didn't shy away from it, Goku Jr is probably the most relatable character for me. So please keep in mind my biases and I don't hate Super.
I miss when Goku was the underdog that put everything he had into fighting his opponents. Now he's grown into a guy who views everyone else as the underdog who have to "force" him to take a fight seriously, except even WHEN he brings out SSB, he holds back so much he's able to fight weaklings like Krillin without accidentally killing him. It's hard to tell a fight is serious when the main character is constantly underestimating his opponents because of how much his power has grown. In my opinion, SSG should have been the apex of Goku's power and the end of the entire franchise, fanbase be damned.
Thank you! Ssg should have been the end of all transformations. It would have been so clever, let enemies underestimate his looks only for goku to show that raw power. Plus it wouldn't be typical more muscles equals more strength, its thin and lean. And it could have made goku fight in a new way, being more calm and tactical. That would have made a smoother transition to ultra instinct (not the master version.) You can't even called it mastered ultra instinct because it's not even mastered. It should have just been omen, it would have made alot more sense, since gods of destruction can't master it, goku shouldn't have either. Ssg should have been the strongest transformation goku has and ultra instinct omen be his strongest technique.
@@leultrainstinct406 its hard to see super goku as an underdog when he doesn't grow and continues to lose and look like a rookie still despite having 40 years of experience, that's honestly sad.and no goku doesn't get help he gets saved by the gods and by bull shit writing.goku gets trashed down alot in super he obviously isn't holding back and checking out his opponents,if he is it ain't noticeable at all.SSJ4 and SSJ Blue are both fine tho
Let’s all remember it wasn’t goku that beat Cell it was Gohan and he needed the spirit bomb (which was the combined power of everyone in earth) to defeat Buu
@@leultrainstinct406 ur gonna forget ressurection f when goku stole the win from Vegeta, achieved the fancy schmancy forms to fight Beerus and Jiren first? Sure gt was also responsible for something similar but the goku winning formula wasn’t so prominent as it is today. And if ki control means spamming blue hair dye for no reason then it’s actually quite stupid. Like you don’t need to go ssgss in a base ball match or against arale
Toriyama began pissing on Yamcha very early on, shipping Bulma with Vegeta for some awful reason, crapping on the heads of original DB fans. Generally, disrespecting the past was always a great problem in this show, it began with the very introduction of Saiyans, which de facto made every human character a joke, rendered martial arts useless, and pretty much destroyed the show for me as an original DB fan. Even in the Cell saga, all of the androids (the old man and the fat guy, does anyone remembers them?) become a joke once Cell comes, and even Cell becomes a joke and replaced with a better Cell. Truly, somewhere around the middle of Z, it's become clear that you cannot bond with any character in this show without feeling cheated, excluding the by-that-point-boring-as-hell Goku and Vegeta
I remember the year, 2005 to be precise, when I was watching Goku ask everyone to lend him energy to defeat Kid Buu. I lifted my arms high and proudly on that day, cheering him on. Those were the days, Vegeta wasn't chasing Goku's power anymore and respected him, choosing to get stronger for himself and his loved ones.
I just don't like how Super doesn't seem like it has much of a story with any weight to it. Everything just feels like a self-contained long filler arc, and Beerus and Whis always being around just feels like they're hanging onto the series and living plot armor. There just doesn't seem to be much direction for the characters anymore. Its just "new thing shows up" like Smash Bros. And the whole thing with alll the characters other than Goku is just. "they want to protect their off screen families" as their shared motivation isnt really a plotline. Its a generic default status. Like they became the Justice League now, and not really anti-herioc martial artists anymore. I just don't think Super really does anything better than GT other than just better fights. GT had better arc plots imo.
Every fucking character in dragon Ball is a fucking prodigy... Master Roshi took 50 years to do the Kamehameha while Goku took 50 seconds, Tien literally made master Roshi quit martial arts even though he was a teenager, piccolo became stronger than his own father within 3 years of existing, Frieza without any training could actually hold his own with the legendary Super Saiyan and trained for 4 months so he could fight ssjb goku, the Android's we're stronger than SSJ by default and 17 became ssjb level from training on a fucking island, Gohan with only 4 years of training beat cell who was literally made up of all the strongest beings to exist at the time, Goten and trunks became SSJ at an earlier age than Gohan, Buu is the literal incarnation of evil, etc. Why is it so fucking weird for caulifla and kale to do the same exact shit every fucking character did? How can she be a mary sue? She has zero fucking wins and got humiliated by Goku. Goku was literally training her.
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT because it's dumb. No one but super fanboys liked the frieza or 17 getting that strong with zero explainations nor did anyone like goten and trunks getting ssj that early. By kale and caulifla people had just gotten tired of asspulls
To be completely fair caulifla and kale turned into mary Sues only because they were rushed, same goes for jiren. If only the story didn't rush their development, they could've been great. There were times it came really really REALLY close to being good. For instance jiren's backstory instead of just having jiren say "oH fRieNds aRe UseLeSs" over and over. They could instead delve deeper into how he disconnects himself from people because of his fear of lost, combined with his pain of betrayal and abandonment by his old friends. They got super close to it during the battle with goku but they ultimately just said "nah f*ck it, just make him swole." Same with kale and caulifla, especially kale. Her fear of being abandoned and left behind or being a burden to caulifla could've been explored more. Maybe a flashback of how caulifla always had to protect her and maybe even gets injured trying to. Perhaps delve a little deeper into why caulifla likes kale so much, it's not really explained, from the way caulifla is portrayed, it would seem like she'd hate kale because of how weak she is. Instead of making kale universe 6's broly, they could've lead with that but surprise us and show that she's actually that universe's gohan. Similar to gohan, she hates herself for allowing people to get hurt for her and causing more bad than good when she goes berserk, eventually it builds up and she's finally able to let it go and control her power. And it could literally be as simple as just giving a WHOLE episode (not just parts of one) dedicated to exploring kale and caulifla and another one for jiren, seeing those were the only opponents slightly focused upon in the T.O.P. these are just my opinions and ideas feel free to disagree
So with SSG I thought any battle against someone as strong with that would basically destroy the universe, but then with blue being a stronger power, and freeza going from where he was to literally stronger than SSG out of nowhere, why didn't that fight alone destroy the universe?
I think dragon ball needs to just take a leap of faith and let them fight in space not just a new planet. That’s what it should have been as a Super Saiyan God form. Just so fans can’t complain about the whole fighting on the planet thing. I definitely agree that worlds should be destroyed but come on by the fight with Cell they definitely had planet crushing ability just by shock waves of fighting on the planet. The way I see it is that it’s been a problem for a long time and at this point it’s just a logic we need to accept if they are not gonna fight in space. They have multi planet and universal but fight on the ground for scenery.
To emphasize how strong the villains are, you can’t have planet level opponents forever because goku and vegeta could just eventually surpass them. With this logic, anything past the original and early saiyans saga is practically pointless. The escalation is simply for fun, granted it does look stupid that universe busters don’t actively blow everything up. Even villains who supposedly want to kill everyone. There is practically nothing stopping frieza fork blowing up the earth and doing away with the saiyans in one fellow swoop.
Also. I love how you used the original Bardok as an example of no safety net. You root so hard for him that entire movie knowing he's going to die but you can't help yourself and get crushed when it happens! That was so good!
One thing I've learned lately is how to let go of a series that used to be good. So many series have an amazing season or two then dwindle off. I've learned to stop watching if there's enough bad episodes in a row. Bad shows? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Here's a number of shows that suffered from a decline in quality due to multiple seasons 1. SpongeBob SquareSpants 2. Loud House 3. Johnny test 4. The Simpsons
honestly this is messed up, people wish that new shows would be like their own childhood but wake up its not 1992 anymore u guys think that because dragon ball super isint dragon ball z u find an excuse to critisize it because it isint ur childhood its not about what u want its about what toriyama wants to do with the franchise. he ended Z because he wanted to go on to new things like super.. just like how naruto ended and boruto came along thats the same thing toriyama is doing with dragon ball
plus u guys say some things are lazy but cut them some slack, they work their asses off to give us a good show and u guys critisize them because its not *nostalgic*
100% agree with everything. It felt soulless and directionless. The transformation fatigued and the shit treatment on the Z warriors so many missed opportunities wasted. My heart goes out to the animators that had to deal with forced hours by the company's demand and the death threat comments from their audience, they dont deserve any of it but the writers and staff production deserve every harsh criticism. I was one of those defensive people that defended "Super" cause I spent time and energy start to finish but while looking back on it, the journey was a huge headache and pain in the ass. There's some to like about "Super" slice of life moments and fights too. I was debating whether to collect the DBS anime on bluray to complete my DB series but instead I'll just stick with the physical manga and buy GT instead.
Yeah Super may be canon since it happens after Bulmas birthday party & before the final tournament when Goku fights uub In DBZ but since it was done soo bad & without love it’s a cartoon now that’s not canon In the eyes of fans. I think GT comes after DBZ ending since Goku is in his blue Gi & Pan was born in the last episode of Z by Gohan & now she’s a full grown teen in GT.
I'm glad you agree that Goku's character was downgraded in some type of way. There have been people that say that his character hasn't changed, but there was a noticable difference in Super. I get that DBS was supposed to be kid friendly but they took away the aspects of Goku that we knew and loved. I ended up liking Vegeta as a character more and more as Super went on because you could see the notable character growth for him while my love for Goku decreased as Super continued until midway through the TOP. Loved the video!!!!
I hate that they pretty much continued Vegetas character arc of needing to be stronger than Goku But Gokus intelligence drop was ridiculous and even worse imo. Yes we know he isn’t a “hero”, we know he fights for fun. Stop making him into an idiot though, Toriyama! The man would be serious if his universe was at stake, he’d want to beat Jiren not just cause he’s strong but because he knows he has to pass this hurdle to save his loved ones and many innocents.
@@ziongamer6905 It would've been fitting in a way and would've been a better way to introduce the idea that Vegeta was going to achieve power in his own way like he was saying in the TOP. I don't think Goku becoming less intelligent or kid friendly was Toriyama, it was whoever was in charge of writing the anime story because Toriyama just gave them a guideline for stories and they had to add what they thought was good while keeping the notes that Toriyama sent it to them
Lee Moore the only people who think super goku is the same as Japanese z goku are TFS fanboys, watch the last dragon ball saga in Japanese against Majunor, you’ll see Japanese goku at 18 is far smarter and far less silly as super goku
The sad thing is that Dragon Ball has a lot of intriguing characters and stories they could explore but the creativity of the writers is not coming off on screen.... no imagination.
I'd rather watch a hand drawn Z Warriors series. Tien, Yamcha, krillin, protecting earth and innocent people. Have Goten in there and have an arc where he has to step up and save the planet while everyone else is far off. I honestly don't understand the lack of spin offs... if they are successful, you can incorporate cross series stories or bring them together for movie features.
I stop in Gt, and i prefer to believe that Dbs never existed and Dbgt is cannon. if I had to give a note to these two I would give: Dbgt: 5/10 Dbs: 2/10
Goddamn that is true for me! I suffer an high case of disillusion because of dbs just keeping to be a disappointing mess, AND STILL BEING CONSIDERED GOOD by seemingly the majority of fans!
My biggest problem is how they changed Goku and Vegeta 1: Goku was much serious and less stupid in DBZ 2: Goku doesn't care if a universe blows up, he only cares about fighting and rarely takes it seriously, not only that but the only time be seemed actually serious is in the Goku Black saga when Black killed Chi Chi and Goten. 2: Vegeta was peaceful, and had huge characters development more then ever, he even shared food with Majin Buu for god sake. He even sacrificed himself to protect Goten and Trunks, he agreed to fuse with Goku permanently(even though it wasn't permanent.) And admitted to himself that Goku was #1.
Exactly,they ruined vegetas character and made him into a literal joke too,vegeta during the climax of the buu saga was very mature and addmited that goku was #1 but now in supers hes very whiny and still acts like a bozo
@@rubberballoonlover5471 I assume you're referring to the "using the Dragon Balls to make herself younger or give her a bigger butt" thing. If that's the case, I do agree wholeheartedly.
I think super shows whats wrong with a lot of anime in general. dumbing down of characters, constant gags, not funny jokes. just feels like a lot of this is just made for 11 and under.
I didn’t mind Universe 6 Saiyans being almost completely opposite of the Saiyans on Universe 7. It was just the execution and ruining of Super Saiyan that made them awful.
@@tentaplayz3691 Actually, that should be the crudest but still effective way to justify Frost NOT being evil like Freeza, he just ended up being nothing more than a stereotype creator!
The absolute truth can NEVER be debunked! Thank you, Scholar. This video does my soul good. BTW this review had more heart in it then the actual thing!
Honestly I feel like alot of us were thinking that back then an it really would’ve shown goku how messed up he would’ve been if he never hit his head as a baby
But if that was the case they would have been forced to make him not come from future Trunks's timeline because remember that the Goku from that timeline died due to the virus
If I could sum up DBS in a one sentence it will be "Just add things, it will do great with the kids". Who cares about logic and established lore and world/character building.
Something I recently felt I really hated about Super is that there never seems to be a consequence or cost in anything hanging over an arc or a power ups. It all feels like its just an episodic easy arc that has no stakes to them. And fights feel very formulaic. Like at least the Cell saga had costs. Vegeta wanted to prove his potential so he let Cell become perfect. The cost of that was Cell being too strong for him and he took it. that they let the Androids wake up, because they wanted to meet the next challenge, but at the cost of being killed and the Earth being systemically destroyed so they trained in motivation for it. Also Fighting 19 and 20 had a risk of them using their ki, it getting absorbed by them. A cost, a risk. Or in the Buu arc. Vegeta wanted to fight Goku again because they never had a rematch post Super Saiyan, but that came at the risk of Buu. But Vegeta had no choice because Goku would only be there for a day then back to the dead. Vegeta risked Buu waking up for his fight but he only had one option to get it. He at a cost became evil to force Goku to fight him. At the cost of him killing people and then they fought at the cost of Buu's energy waking him up. There was at least always a cause, an effect and a risk in the plot of the arcs to keep them interesting, Thats what tension is. Super doesn't have that at all. Power ups have no cost, risk or consequence. In Z it was the Oozaru, the risk of losing your mind and the weakness of the tail being cut. Then with SSJ Goku risked losing control of his anger to it, when he yelled at Gohan. Freeza at 100% risked getting weaker because of body strain. In the Cell arc, SSJ grade 2 cost the Saiyans their speed for muscle if they couldn't figure out how to ascend instead of power up. SS2 Gohan got it but at the cost of him losing himself to his Saiyan instincts and arrogance in the power difference. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta had to fight back against Babidi's commands to keep his released mind and power. SS3 the cost of the strain due to it being difficult to do outside of the afterlife or another dimension which was consistent. Fusion had the cost of either getting it wrong, or running out of time from power usage. Potata (formally had a cost unique to it) where it was irreversable. Fighting Super Buu was a risk because he could just absorb you if he was losing. Kid Buu as well or he'd just blow up the planet at random. But in Super whats the cost of SS God? SSB? Hakai power? Ultra instinct? What are the risks, and consequences in the arcs? Nothing. Freeza especially can just asspull power ups too, just training for a few minutes a day. Its awful. What exactly makes any of these arcs interesting? Sure the TOP has the risk of getting deleted forever, but even that they just forfeited at the last minute because Zeno changed his mind.
I'll tell you what happened. Dragon Ball Z had a resurgence in popularity and some studio big wigs thought it would be a good idea to bring it back. when they made Dragon Ball Super, they ignored the shows that came before it and toned it down to be more kid friendly.
Too bad we live in this times when only a few companies actually care about money more than content like toei which pretty much sums up what db is today, a cash cow. But because it's db it'll never die or lose popularity
@@Gokis47 Endgame was not a good movie. I thought I liked it at first, but that was just because of the hype. after some time passed, I realized that it actually sucks. most major character development happened off screen. it completely wasted opportunities for good storytelling that was built up. Bruce Banner and the Hulk becoming one happened off screen, despite being built up since the Incredible Hulk. Iron Man learning how to forgive not only Captain America, but also his own dad. Rocket dealing with the loss of the Guardians of the Galaxy, which was built up in the second Guardians movie. Captain America undid his character arc from Age of Ultron when he said that he didn't want a family anymore. Black Widow didn't even get her own funeral, she had one scene where everyone was sad and that was it. her death should have been devastating on Hulk, since their romance had been built up in Age of Ultron. Thanos in Endgame is a different Thanos than the one in Infinity War, so this movie gives us no reason to care about him since his personality is different. Captain Marvel didn't even need to be in the movie because she contributed nothing that couldn't be done by other characters. if the Infinity Stones being gone is so bad, then why hasn't the main MCU timeline been completely destroyed by not having Infinity Stones for 5 years? why didn't the Avengers go back in time to when Thanos had all the Infinity Stones, just slightly before the snap and cut his head off while Thor was trying to make Thanos suffer? if Captain America traveled back in time to an alternate timeline and never returned, how did he show up in the main timeline as an old man? especially since Hulk literally stated in this movie why that wouldn't work. why did they ruin a potentially great scene where Iron Man and Nebula find their way to Earth by having Captain Marvel just randomly find and save them? it would've worked much better if they had Iron Man get back using only his genius and limited tech. it would mirror Iron Man 1 perfectly and it would've worked great seeing as it was Iron Man's last movie. one scene that I really liked was when Ant-Man made it back to the world to find half of everyone gone. I was expecting some heartwarming dialogue with him and his daughter, but it never came and it was just skipped over. Star-Lords return to Earth should've been a big moment for him, seeing as he hasn't been there since he was a kid. I know they couldn't have that much time to do much, seeing as the movie has a lot of characters, but I would've liked to see him look around or saying something about Earth, but we didn't get anything close.
@The Prime Star actually most people i met loves gt more. I am not a huge gt fan but i like some stuff in gt more than super(mainly ss4). To me gt started off bad and got better when it went along while super started off good and got worse over time.
@The Prime Star to me super was good and bad more like 60% bad 40% good. Tings like super saiyan god( to a degree super saiyan blue) kaioken blue,hit, universe 6 saiyans, and an more stuff about the angels but i see your point
I felt like the SSJ God form (with red hair) should’ve been Goku and Vegeta’s god forms for the entirety of super, up until Ultra Instinct. I felt like once we got the God form it was instantly replaced by Super Saiyan Blue (which in my opinion is the point in which I said there are too many transformations).
@@M3rtyville And there is a lot of issues in dragon ball gt too. But I still like it both have their flaws, But that doesn't stop me from thinking it was a good series.
@@jameslopez5442 Gt's flaws are mild compared to Super. Z and original Dragon Ball had also their flaws. Super's flaws are far more damaging. And there is more bad than good. I can't name anything good about Super from the top of my head. People that hate GT, even those who didn't watch it, can name things that are good about it.
@@leultrainstinct406 nice bait. Toriyama never said he hated gt, he actually liked it. You only want to believe he hated it because you hate it. Your pathetic.
The thing about Future Trunks is that he would have jumped at the Super Saiyan God ritual. He was not someone ruled by his pride, and was always much more focused on getting the job done. It could have been a great contrast to the feelings Goku expresses during Battle of Gods. Suppose the reason he came back was not to beg for Goku and Vegita to come with him and fight his battles for him, but because he somehow learned about the ritual and came back to the main timeline because he knew there were enough Saiyans alive to perform the ritual in that timeline.
most comments on this video, usually stupid or annoying, but this i adore, this could legit be good and could've had some type of ssjrage afterwards and it make more sense as his hybrid version of ssjb
God I love your section on Goku, finally someone GETS IT!! A mature and respectable Goku who we can look up to, but who also when he does something silly like "MY BUTTS ON FIRE" in the frieza fight, it's actually a funny moment, a treasured part of his character. DBs destroyed him by turning him into a complete dumbass and I hate DBs Goku so much. Thank you for recognising this and bringing it out. You've solidified me as a fan of your work.
@@monicavulvatron3800 Dragon Ball heroes always does a great job of making Goku look like a toatal bad ass and a mentor. I enjoy watching those trailers where suddenly you and your hero feel like you'll be okay because SSJ3 Goku is standing right behind you looking more serious than Picollo
The passionate “that dragon ball fan” speech at the beginning rivals Goku’s super saiyan speech on namek. That passion, preach! Literally your video at that point alone is already better than most other db youtubers videos put together. Bravo my friend 👏🏼
The ONLY honest youtuber with a HONEST opinion of super and the current state of the DB franchise. Literally agreed entirely with every point made! Well done. You should be the one leading the writing for the show to be honest.
That guy Totally not Mark didn't seem like a huge fan and many others, don't know why you had to put ONLY in caps like no one else has done it before because I've seen plenty of them.
I never had a problem with GT. The travel in space reliving Dragonball was slow and underwhelming but once Baby was introduced it was great. It was great story. It ended well and it left you emotional. All the legends pass on and Goku leaving on the Dragon with a grandson that look just like him.
I really loved how it made Great Apes relevant again and Super Saiyan 4 in general is a goddamn national treaaure, I am enamored with that form in particular.
My problem with anything after the cell Saga is what they did to Gohan's character. I fully agree with every argument in this video; especially the retcon of the super Saiyan. Even Gohan's transformation in the time chamber was much more meaningful and even more difficult to maintain than ANY of the universe 6 Saiyans. My question is how did the universe 6 Saiyans get so strong without any real struggle? We saw Gohan fight from raditz, to vegeta, to frieza, to garlic jnr; the training and struggle that made Gohan who he was, was completely and utterly wasted.
@@blue-12316 don't give that bullshit excuse. No amount of "advanced" means that crap. They haven't even been in the brutal battles that u7 Saiyans have so them being more evolved makes no sense
@@blue-12316 Regardless of them getting super saiyan (you could argue that is from their advancement), they are a mostly peaceful race, whom never encounter conflicts to become stronger. The only explanation is that "they are just better", which would be fine with any other alien race, but these are saiyans. If they truly were more advanced than the U7 saiyans, then why did they need super saiyan? Why did they not have something unique of their own, like technology, or advanced techniques? Anything could have shown they were obviously different, but instead, they're mostly just "high potential" like every other saiyan. It's just so disappointing. If they are different, give them something to make them different (minor visual changes aren't enough). Edit: I actually like the characters we were given, but they could have been so much more interesting. Love and Peace folks.
I don't really care about dragon ball, but I have massive respect for someone who isn't afraid to come across as an asshole for asserting his points with confidence.
Saiyan Scholar said things about DBS that Geekdom or Seth the Programmer would never say because it'd hurt their sub count. Saiyan Scholar is a GOD DAMN ROLE MODEL.
Albert The Peacock Seth the programmer is a hack who actively ignores feats and quotes in the show to support his stupid bunk math because he wants to believe every character in super is multiversal and geekdom is an egomaniac whose literally never seen dragon ball or gt
i wouldn't say there in denial, just the few who like it. dragon ball super has done more damage to dbz than anything else. the fandom has only gone down as of late. to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I remember people were still comparing dbz to shows all the way up to resurrection f. People were still talking about dbz, it fan creations, the hate for gt was still strong. i remember it all. then super came out, and all that began to die slowly. nowadays, only a few die hard are still acting like it was 10 years ago. it sad
the problem is its just like music if the new music is the it thing quote on quote people will like it cuz ots new and its music but not all new things are good I never lolee super never will watch it unless I have friends telling me watch this or watch that I'm the same with music and vars not all new things ate hoid that's just me
I knew Super was going to suck from day 1. From Battle of Gods, I knew that if it wasn’t a stand alone film, they had ruined Dragonball. How? Because if they continued, all it was going to be was another, generic power creep show. Goku gets the power of a FUCKING GOD! Literally the Super Sayian GOD. No one should be able to stand up to him, period. Goku is now the strongest mortal to have ever lived and to even hint that anyone would even come close to strong enough was laughable. Instead, we have Vegeta achieving the same thing off screen, and now they have a new transformation, and now Gohan is just as strong, and now Freeza is slightly stronger but he can’t maintain the form. Wait… FREEZA? The guy who couldnt stand up to a normal, brand new Super Sayian that had a fraction of the power of a Full Powered Super Sayian? Which was half as strong as a Super Sayian 2? Which was also left behind by Super Sayian 3, Mystic Gohan, and fusion powers? Freeza is now STRONGER than not only a god, but a god with the power of a Super Sayian? How? Oh… he TRAINED FOR FOUR MONTHS?!?!?!?! THATS IT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? And then it was all down hill from there. Now everyone is as strong as a god, other universes have people just as strong as Goku and Vegeta in base form just cause. New Sayians can turn Super Sayian 2 in a week. Everything that made Z great has been shit on or thrown out the window. Super is pure, unadulterated garbage and has been since its inception. I feel like Scholar is saying good things about the beginning only to soften the blow that Super is pure shit, because it was pure shit from the very beginning. There was NOTHING about the show that wasn’t generic and disrespectful to its past from DAY ONE. Ive never liked Super and to see everyone coming around because the initial hype has died down, the very same people who called me stupid or how i don’t know shit about Dragonball or whatever, are now making videos explaining why it sucks is frustrating at the least. Stop kidding yourself that Super was anything but a soulless, empty cash grab, because it wasn’t. Not even the parts that Scholar says he liked. They were shit wall to wall. Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Just because your favorite show is coming back doesnt make it good or even welcome. Remember that the creators have to actually care if you want your show to be anywhere near as good as it used to be.
I’m just now watching it after not watching it in high school when it came out. I can’t stand it. They truly ruined Goku. It’s so out of character for him to just straight up not care about the fate of Trunks’ timeline and also the other universes. All he cares about is fighting strong people. He’s always been childlike, but not to this extent. EDIT: I also think GT is leagues better than Super.
@@NOTCOLEADA I’ve read and watched dragon ball for years. This is just my personal take. There’s not some objective character surrounding Goku. He’s more or the less the poster child for the stereotypical protagonist, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
The best compliment I can give Super is "It's like a fan fiction that has a couple of cool scenes, yet it completely spits in the face of the original and every so often you feel like the authors never watched the original."
No suspense. (Goku LITERALLY has a multiverse eraser on speed dial) Frieza gets the biggest ass pull power up I've ever seen. Don't like the female saiyans for the same reason I don't like Goten and Trunks. General ass pull power ups that don't make any sense. It is entertaining to watch and the music is great but I don't get the same excitement watching dbs as I did watching the previous series installments.
Finally someone's saying it. Friezas 4 months of training caught him up to goku and vegeta's decades worth of training and zenkai boosts. Plus he didn't face in adversity while training right? He just tortured his henchman, like he's been doing for generations. With the fact people except such bad writing constantly, its no wonder dragon ball die hards get such a bad rep.
Toei/toriyatard:yo frieza has been in hell for 15 years, he could've easily trained all those years, reaching golden form as he has crazy potential. But nah let's just have him train for 4 months cuz f* common sense right
@@notisttt1240 Such a simple solution that makes so much since. Frieza could have trained with the most powerful and dangerous people in hell for years instead of torturing a zarbon level pawn. Since he would have infinite ki and stamina in the afterlife, it would serve as a good reason why he doesn't know how to properly maintain his gold form same as ssj3 goku in the buu saga.
@@notisttt1240 tbh if someone asked me before dbs what power frieza would be at if he "trained" and got a new transformation....high balling him I'd put him around semi-perfect cell level. I'm glad Frieza is back, but damn they should have come up with something more than him beating up a henchman for 4 months and all of a sudden he goes from going toe-to-toe with an untrained super saiyan to trading blows with ssb goku. And I dont even wanna get started on how you can increase your stamina by not moving smh
What you said about Goku made me realize why I disliked Goku recently. He used to be one of my favorite characters in DBZ, someone I looked up to, and was happy and excited to see him enter the battlefield, and even then it wasn't just a straight win, he genuinely struggled. The other characters may not be as strong as he is, but you knew they could keep up with him. And Goku always seemed to do the right thing for the right reasons. Sure, he liked fighting, and he enjoyed fighting against other strong fighters, but he still loved the life he had. It was clear he cared for his family and friends to not want to see them get hurt. And yet... Super's Goku felt incredibly dumb, insensitive, and whiney. He didn't seem to care about his family, he just cared about fighting strong people and getting stronger himself. That's all he ever cares about in Super, and eating lots of food I guess. He became stupid, regressing back to his first appearance in Dragon Ball before Bulma found him. It really felt like he didn't care for anyone, he was just happy to be able to fight against strong guys. Heck, apparently, according to Vegeta, non royal Saiyans can't love their family. Excuse me, WHAT? Goku being a Saiyan should NOT be the excuse for every stupid thing he does in Super. Not only does it retcon a lot of DBZ's lore of Saiyans, and Goku as a character, but it just feels like something Toriyama pulled out his butt as his excuse for making Goku incredibly dumb and selfish. And hearing that apparently Goku was always meant to be portrayed as this rather than the heroic Goku in the English dub just made me dislike Goku in Z now, feeling like that Goku was a lie. No matter how you look at it, Super's Goku is not Goku. It's just a shell of Goku, stripped of his personality, and only given the trait of loving to fight, and acting like a completely idiot that apparently people love.
I believe it’s that usually for Non-royal Saiyans to get marry as its consider abnormal in their society or very minor thing that concurs. I mean in Bardock: Father of Goku it didn’t seem like Bardock cared about his wife or mother of his sons too. They seem to expand that a bit more recently.
@@viruschris3160 Which do you consider 'canon' in the Dragon Ball universe? The manga or the special? Because apparently in the manga, Bardock *did* actually care for his wife. Besides, even if that were the case, that still doesn't make it okay. It was something that was only brought up in Super. In Z, while Goku isn't father (or husband) of the year, he was still protrayed as caring about his family as opposed to Super where he mostly acts like a child who ditches them just because he didn't want to do farm work.
@@DarkFoxKit For Bardock? Sadly, the manga is more or less the “canon” one for the current story of Dragon Ball. Though I like the Special more and think it COULD still be canon to the series but with obvious tweaks. I miss the team of 5 Saiyans with all various looks, Bardock being a more typical Saiyan you expect from the warrior Saiyan race. The visions. While I love the introduction of Gine, even the game Dragon Ball gave her good spotlight for her, I wish it didn’t undermined the Special. And it was that Special that allowed Bardock to exist and Akira to add him in the Frieza saga. Yet it was swept under the rug.
@@viruschris3160 Yeah. Truth be told, I really liked the Special too. And I like to think the reason why Saiyans didn't care about their mates is because of their culture, not because it's biological like Super seems to be heavily implying.
By the time I got to the SSG section, I realized this wasn't a 10 min video, but by then I didn't care and just lived to hear Scholar says *DISGRACE* once again
My biggest problem with super is the art style it looks so stuf and plastic like and how normal people who don't even have god kai are able to keep up blue. The writers have no idea what they're doing
That anime looks far worse than Z, I don't know how there's people who say it looks better, when it is just a lot of "pretty colors" splashed all over the place.
Dragon ball z was the peak of the dragon ball anime as a whole, I’ve been watching dragon ball for 20 years and super is the most confusing , convoluted, dragon ball series it lacked true character development, it’s so many forgettable characters thrown at you that you forget to care
@@Notthefather91 yeah lmao, but not just this, its more about the action, the suspens, the story telling, the scenario, the character development, all of these was better and more succulent in these sagas.
@@juliuscaesart Cell and Buu while still good story arcs, didn't have the same feeling of adventure, exploration, martial arts and danger as the late DB/early DBZ parts. The androids were original, but since Cell it basically became open season on villains obtaining new forms and copying other fighter's moves.
@@lilosi445 That means it not manga canon but it's canon to dbz the anime. Supers anime is canon to Kai and supers manga is toriyama manga canon. Three canons. Not really complex.
1:50:35 Wow, I just got chills thinking about what the Goku Black arc could have been. Vegeta facing off against an evil Goku who murdered Bulma. Imagine Vegeta's emotions here as he stares at Goku Black, the face of the man he once despised, but over the years grew to respect as an ally, a friend, and a superior fighter. Goku has changed Vegeta from a cold blooded killer to one of the greatest heroes in history, a man dedicated to redeeming himself and protecting his family from people like the villain he once was long ago. Now, he has to fight "Kakarot", the fight he once craved, like in the Majin Vegeta arc, when he killed innocent people just to force Goku to fight him seriously. Imagine the shame Vegeta would feel fighting Goku Black, realizing that this enemy may look like Goku, but deep down he's more like how Vegeta used to be, a monster. Vegeta would be like a fan losing faith in the hero he once idolized. This is Goku, someone he aspires to be like, to one day surpass, to become worthy of Goku's legacy of heroism, to gain Goku's approval and respect, but now Vegeta's rival is unrecognizable. Vegeta can't derive any enjoyment or satisfaction from fighting THIS Goku. Imagine the banter of Goku Black insulting him for becoming weak and soft, of being a disgrace to the Saiyan race. Imagine Goku Black saying "isn't this what you always wanted? To finally get your revenge of Kakarot? What are you waiting for? This is your big chance!" In fact, screw the name "Goku Black" altogether. Let's have this version of Goku reject the name Goku given to him by Grandpa Gohan, a human, in favor of his Saiyan name, Kakarot. This could have been the best arc in Super, the most tense, emotional, impactful, and epic arc in Dragon Ball history. What a damn waste.
The "mystic" form should've been a precursor to ultra instict. In other words, ui should be a fusion of mystic and God ki. That would make perfect sense since mystic in buu saga seems to render ssj forms obsolete.
Of course cause Gohan was given powers. Let's also not mention how many times "his potential was unleashed" we thought his potential was unleashed by Guru when they were on Namek only to get past Namek,Androids & Cell only to get to Buu where he has even more potential to unlock smh. And how blatant and in your face can the show be to GIVE GOKU AND GOHAN FOS THEY DIDNT TRAIN FOR SSG & MYSTIC. No one else was given power
Problem is that ui isn’t just a form, you also need a state of mind and a couple of other miscellaneous prerequisite. The only thing ui and ultra have in common is that they are both above the conventional ssj forms, but are different in practice. Besides that making him much easier to get then it already was, goku already had his potential unlocked with the ultra divine water so we know ui doesn’t do that. It breaks his limits but doesn’t inherently give him more potential. It’s also probably better this way, it gives ultimate its own identity instead of being a prerequisite for another form.
Well what worse is that mystic was given to gohan by a God. The Supreme kais are God's. So I guess that's gonna be an explanation for final gohan now. But why couldn't beerus or whis just do the same for goku and vegeta instead of the endless training.....
This is the same shit I’ve been telling my friends for years while super was ongoing, but no I was apparently just being too hard on the series.... Im so glad this video was made 😭
What happened to GT is almost what happened with Star Wars Prequels (my favorite star wars era) people constantly jumped into the prequel hating bandwagon because they hated anything outside the original trilogy and older fans loved to insult the prequels left and right. But when the sequels came out the prequels has finaly recived the respect they deserved even though it is quite insulting to compare them to the crap that was the sequels in order to say thet they are good.
@@G-LukeJA The prequels were amazing I personally prefer them over the originals. The prequels had the best lightsaber battles, the best themes, ther best space battles, amazing world building, the coolest side characters and some of the most impresive desiogn on the ships. People love to jump in the band wagon but I have never heard a decent reson to dislike the prequels besides Jar Jar, some dialog and CGI witch I don't know why people have a problem with that because CGI makes the movies look amazing. The prequels were original they had one of the most interesting eras is galactic history and the clone wars conflic was ten times bettre than the galactic civil war especialy with the colone tropers and their jedi generals. I also prefear the jedi of the prequel era over the jedi that came after them. They were wiser more noble and had superior skills over all. The prequels some problems that people like to over exaggerate about but they were very good movies. Some idiots just jump in the bandwagon because other idiots said so just because it is a popular and stupid opinion that some of the older fans spread back then.
As always I'm late to the party, but I respect the hell out of you for making a video this long. I feel the same as you about this, Super really does come off as a very soulless continuation of Z. The lack of character development, cheap power ups, transformation color swaps, it really did feel like watching an Anime/Manga solely designed to sell toys.
@@zamasu8422 Not even that much of a power up honestly, it was basically ssj3 without stamina issues, and wasn't pulled out of nowhere at least, since it was elder kai to give Gohan that power, we have an explanation for it.
Goku Black should have been Goku from a very distant future who had lived too long and fought too many battles. That in those many battles there were many losses along the way and over time Goku became cold and was driven mad. Rose should have been a representation of Goku Black accessing the power of Despair. It could have been explained in an episode that as he lost friends along the way he lost access to his other forms because of the toll that had been taken on him emotionally. When the last of those he loved died at the hands of an enemy he could not defeat Goku pretty much fell off the cliff of Despair (metaphorically) and Rose unleashed itself. With the power of Rose he destroyed his foe and realized that this was the power he needed all along. But in his present, there are no Dragon Balls anymore, he can't bring anyone back and he can't fix the world. So his plan was to harden his heart go back in time and force his past self to access this power sooner. With it he could defeat his future foe but execute things in such a way that the Dragon Balls would still be in play. When he used the time ring for the first time it sent him to Future Trunk's time. He began to unleash havoc before realizing he wasn't where he meant to go but by that point his soul was already blackened too much to stop himself. Things could play out, normal Goku learns something about himself and now he and the team after having defeated Goku Black realize there is a new threat coming. This would make the arc sorta "rhyme" with the Future Trunks Android Saga. Sorry if that fanfic isn't great I literally pulled it out my butt as I was typing. But I feel like it was better than what we got.
DBS is the one series where I'd wholeheartedly recommend skipping the story and just watching the fillers. At least it was fun to see the DB cast in some wacky scenarios like the Arale or baseball episodes
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
love how Goku put the whole of existence at risk for an opportunity to fight strong opponents. When did he turn into a sociopath ani-hero? I want to see that episode
Hes always been like that. In japanese goku was always selfish. Its the English version that made him superman to please western audiences. Gokus main goal is to fight the best and get better. He comes off as selfish. Its alway he always leaves his kids and wife. Goku hasnt changed the English dub just made no sense
Toriyama just needs to stop being lazy and stop with the napkin note writing. If he doesn’t want to do full writing he should just stop and leave the series.
Something about super that i dont hear anyone mention is THEY TURNED MAI INTO A NEW CHARACTER, its a 30,40, maybe even 50 year old in a 9 year old body trying to marry a 12 year old kid and in the future trunks saga she is a whole new character
I remember watching this entire show, beginning to end, and I was waiting just like you for the one episode that would be exciting, that solidify me as a fan of Dragon Ball since I never considered myself a fan even though I've watched most of DBZ but missed out on the Buu saga. By the end of super I felt like I wasted my time. I was demotivated, drained. And yes I was also disappointed to see Gohan. Because I missed the Buu saga the last time I saw Gohan was the cell games and I kept questioning, "Where's the boy in purple who turned Super Saiyan to destroy Cell & potentially become the series protagonist & main hero?"
I'm not a decade long dragon ball fan(because I'm a teenager rn) but I grew up with dragon ball. The first version of dragon ball I ever watched was Dbgt, when I was 8. I liked it, and I later on found out about the og Dragonball and dbz. I watched all of them before I became 10. I loved the series so much, that I began to read the magazines, to find out more official stuff about the franchise. I was hyped for battle of gods, and it really delivered. Resurrection f was honestly disappointing, and everything in that movie felt flat to me. When dragon ball super came around, I was extremely excited(I already started power scaling by then) and I started the series with everyone. But it had the same problems with resurrection f, it was flat, emotionless, flashy and had crappy power scaling. Ssj is a 50x multiplier, which would mean ssj blue would have to be 50 or more times stronger than ssj god and that was just adding on too much, too fast. The two things I actually loved in super, were the broly movie, and ultra instinct (even the execution was a bit poor for that concept). As you said, after super ended, I started to appreciate Dbgt a lot more and the end result was that I respected it more than dbs. I'm currently reading the Moro arc(I'm up to date btw) but it still feels emotionless tbh. I really don't know if the franchise can come back from such a big fall.
The minute you said "For the dragon ball fan who stays up at night playing budokai tenkaichi 3" I knew i had to stay for the two hours! And i will fellow scholar or at least by parts!! #PREPARETODIE #WHATTHEHELLHAPPENED?!
I stated the same thing just a second ago. Bruh knew that line hit hard 07’ was that year. Only the BT2 ost Dark Half can explain this era we are entering. I still have all 3 copies of the tenkaichi series on ps2
I love GT. GT is the reason I got into Dragon Ball and I liked how it tried to be like OG and early Z and less of later Z that many make fun of like less fighting and more beams and jokes about how the next super sayian is just SSJ3 but even longer hair (it's why I like SSJ4 because it's different and called back it's original and isn't just SSJ3 with longer hair or SSJ1 but different color.) My favorite DB games are the ones that include GT stuff. To this day I still want a GT DLC for Dragon Ball Kakarot like how they made DLC for Super stories.
I don't even know why they introduced the back tingly concept for super saiyan. Super saiyan was ALWAYS about the inner anger and frustration that a saiyan felt. The aura was a bright yellow kinda like a flame and the gold hair represented the ascension that the saiyan went through. I can't believe they spat on probably the most iconic form of dragon ball.
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Ikr
Idk why the show made Cabba explain to the girls about the thing on the back WHILE Vegeta explained to Cabba previously that it comes from anger
You know, if they had written the tournament of power in a way that they had 3-4 months to prepare(I give her 3-4 months cuz she's super strong in base, so it's ok if it's 3-4 months only,even if she's not a martial arts master like goku) then they could have cabba try to enrage caulifla, it fails as quickly as it did in the actual show, then explain to her that she has to concentrate ki on her back in a very specific way. Caulifla sits down in a meditating potision and concentrates ki on her back for like, a month, like fricking budda(so the authors could empathize on the Buddhism reference they made with the ki in the back thing), thus being the first known saiyan to unlock ssj with meditation alone(which would be because she's a genius and all) and the rest of the months training to master ssj and unlock ssj2(since she's already super strong and is a genius, it kinda makes sense). I would love that. There were MANY plot points in super were I thought "wow this is such a cool idea that is done very horribly". Trust me, many times. It's like they found gold and smeared it in crap.
If anything i thought the back tingles was a fine way to explain how to regularly transform...after a saiyan had already unlocked the form.
But caulifla didn't have it unlocked yet so it feels like an ass pull. Especially since we were told that universe's saiyans are naturally way stronger than universe 7's.
It pisses me off the manga skips over this like that's a better alternative.
Super has a major problem with asspulling characters powers for no reason.
Why can't characters train under harsh conditions off screen for a while?
Goku and vegeta get fair treatment in that regard but even then the writers fuck it up because tien, buu, goten, trunks, piccolo etc get shit on while trunks, 17, frieza and broly get major ass pulls.
They wanted to add a shortcut to the form to make more toys faster.
My biggest problem with super is how they changed Goku. I understand that Goku is no Superman but it's not like that he only fights for the sake of fighting. In Dragon Ball Z, he had his loved ones in mind while training. Goku's perspective on life changed after training with Kami. From there on, he would only kill if it's the last resort. It's not just that he wants new training partners.
I really loved how you saw Goku growing up as a naive boy living in the woods growing into a seasoned martial arts fighter
He didn’t change he grew emotionally. After defeating buy he started to realize what he wanted and that was a pupil.
@@kurokun5810 well then what the hell is he doing in super? All he's doing is trying to get stronger than Beerus what character development 😒
@@olofacosta3192 his emotional growth is league ahead of what he was in z. The god form is somewhat symbolic of thisgrowth. He no longer gains power through rage but control. In super He doesn’t react only physically with his opponents but emotionally and philosophically as well. The blue form and ui compliment this.. He knows buu has been reincarnated somewhere so his true arch is being a teacher one day.
When Goku comes you would be cheering because it’s going to be all right but in Super he lost that heroic vibe.
Super ruined every character except 17. He was so awesome I wanted super to stop being dogshit so I could watch it without dying
You forgot that Piccolo died in the Frieza resurrection saga and they revived him off camera as if he was worth nothing
Exactly; he forgot. Just like Toei.
@@DCBiscuit Just like Toriyama you mean. The joke is that Toriyama just kinda forgot a lot of things along the way, such as the entire character of Launch.
@@Jane-oz7pp dude toriyama didn’t even make supers plot it was his brother that wanted to toriyama just made the manga as he didn’t care that much for the anime
@@Monke-Mongral-CEO he does make the plot he just doesnt write the arcs.
he gives a general idea of what happens but thats it.
Damn this shitstorm was so bad that I didnt even remembered it. Most of this crap have already faded from my memory
The worst thing they did to Picollo is the fact that they made him a freaking narrator! Everything that happens picollo has to tell us exactly what happened. “He’s changed, he’s dropped from his god form to a mere super saiyan, yes, thank you for the information we JUST SAW
im glad piccolos a narrator now
especially with shin in the top being reduced to asking what happened
Well I hate how in the movie shenron gave Piccolo a new transformation on top of his first new form(which he actually earned through training) like what. I think it was said in DBZ only porunga can make those kinds of wishes. Also Gohans form was made by other creators (I know that ssj original design was basically Beast Gohan)but it was never put on screen until El Blanco was a thing and AF expanded Gohans form with ssj6(I know Akira Toriyama approved and the creator is now making Super) Hell Granolah arc is just baby arc but not an evil Saiyan, and Morro arc is cell saga. The whole super series is a big what if mainly TOP. BOG was the only movie and arc I liked, Frieza coming back was cool, but Vegeta should have won. Hit was the only thing I liked in U6 arc and I guess there being more Saiyan's including female. Goku black should have been Gohan Black(both series and manga are good) Frieza should have been with cell for TOP and replace Tien. Broly is just an amalgamation of DBZ Broly and Fusion Reborn.Side Note: ssj god should have been Goku's limit until UI ssj Blue just felt like a waste of a form, but kaioken blue was dope, but not as dope as ssj God UI. Goku's avatar form is just a susanoo from Naruto.
Well for that monent picollo was telling everyone else what happened since he has enhanced senses
Super is shit but as a 29 years old who is not into anime anymore I would still defend Orange piccolo.
It’s his dragon and it was a form that Piccolo probably could have reached later on but Shenron threw him a little extra. Also we needed a new Namekian form as it has lately been all about freaking Saiyans.
Actually, it's a very common anime trope. Hard to actually criticize.
Imagine creating 12 new universes ans never explorating them
Plague of gripes made a great video talking about this
@In Regeneratione
>12 universes
>12 hypothetical infinite possibilities
Toriyama: let's immediately limit the universes and make the strongest fighters fight so no one has interest in these universes outside of these characters
Imagine creating 12 new universes and them ALL using the exact same ki system!
@@joshgroban5291 Honestly thats what got me the most, i like super alot but like, the TOP arc, like you shot yourself in the foot by immediately erasing all kinds of suspense.
Marvel and DC don't expand on there universes too lol
I loved the idea of how Toppo thought Goku was a villain because it was his idea of starting the tournament of power which put the safety of all the universes in jeopardy, just to fill Goku’s love of fighting. That was an intriguing concept they could’ve explored, how Goku’s hubris is putting innocents in danger, but they threw it away by saying “actually Zeno was going to destroy them anyway so Goku really saved the universes by giving everyone a fighting chance.” I thought that was a cheap scapegoat.
Facts it was dumb
I'm ngl i can't remember much, but i thought xeno was gonna destroy alot of the universes and TOP idea from goku. kinda preserved them, thou i could be off the mark because its been a long while
Unless I'm just misremembering something, I find it stupid that Goku was scolded for just suggesting a tournament and then it was decided, "We kill the losers!"
@@valydendor4472 xeno had already intended to just erase the universes included in TOP but yeah it felt kinda stupid imo that they would destroy them for not being strong enough
Definitely was a cheap a scapegoat and such bullshit, it’s like the writers were like “wait the fans are right that’s bad for Gokus character so let’s just say this instead” so lazy and shit writing.
When he said “Just because something makes money and sells toys, doesn’t make the product good within itself. Just ask WWE.” I felt that 💭
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan
All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
Hell yeah fucking right !
WWE's trashiness lead to the creation of AEW.
Ouch...!!
@@andrewdasilva7786 What does this have to do with DBS, and why is your grammar so god awful?
They all called me crazy when I said I’d rather watch gt over super, and that’s not me saying gt is good 😭
BS dude..super deserves way more credit than that. UI in EP 109-110 can be considered top 10 dragon ball moments of all time. The Goku black arc, the new characters introduced..you obviously did not watch it
@@shaochiavang actually I did, I’ve watched the whole show and ultra instinct is just another shell to sell toys like every other transformation in super (blue, trunks ss rage, rose, and instinct)
@@Jose-st3fq if you watch the entire DBS series then how can you say it was better. That's insane. GT had their moments but in no way had the story arc that the Goku black or TOP had. On top of that DBS introduced new well written characters such as beerus, whis, jiren and the gods of the other universe which has not even been explored yet.
Dbs wasn't this great show but it wassnt as bad as you make it to be. EP 109-110 broke the site cuz so much people were trying to stream it. Many things in DBS can also be considered top moments in the dragon ball world also and that's a long list to beat out spots for.
@@shaochiavang doesn’t mean I’m a gt super fan but you’ll get on ur knees to pleasure Toei for making a cash grab show that’s a disgrace to the og dragon ball and dragon ball z run
@@Jose-st3fq no one's comparing it to those except you. And gt was the Ultimate cash grab bro
DBS just doesn’t have the high stakes and genuine moments that made the audience feel something. Too many power ups and I honestly hate SSB. I just didn’t like it.
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That is true like this literally takes place before end of z so we know all the characters are okay so there is no suspense
I agree
super saiyan blue it
Honestly, it’s not the power ups that doesn’t make sense. Goku is completely okay. it’s simply Toriyama making his other characters exponentially stronger over the sagas just to make them look tough for the plot. Take Android 17 for example when he was on par with SSB Goku. He wouldn’t of even stand a chance against SSJ 2 back in Z. This is the only problem i have with Super.
I think Super Saiyan God should have been a goal post to reach throughout the series.
Goku achieves god in the beginning as it happens. Then cant get it again without help from the other saiyans, so he and Vegeta strive to get it without help throughout the whole series. That way god power doesnt get undermined. They really backed themselves into a corner by having God power levels be so easily obtained.
Was easy for Goku to get but not Vegeta
@@austin31697 but it was though lol especially to the viewer. He's out training with whis and sh*t and, ope, well looky here, vegeta has God power already.
@@damondriver6363 intense training with Whis isn't easy. Vegeta spent hard work and time getting it, even if it was off screen.
Goku made a wish and made saiyans give him the power
Vegeta pushed himself to get it
@@IAMSONICTH3H3DG3H0G didn't he use the ritual on himself though
@@IAMSONICTH3H3DG3H0G "Even if it was off screen."
Let me stop you right there, that means that it didn't take work. That's not how storytelling, or writing works.
Imagine if staying calm to keep the blue/UI form was an actual challenge. And if they got too riled up, they'd lose the form until they calmed back down. The enemy might goad them and attack their friends. And you could have some internal struggles with them suppressing the rage they usually use to power up during fights.
It might have actually felt like a unique thing rather than a generic power up.
EXACTLY. That’s never portrayed correctly in the show! It would be so interesting to see them accidentally fall out of the form if they can maintain their emotions or remain focused while in a fight.
Yeah they could use the form when raging but they wouldn’t be able to contain it nor use it at it’s fullest. The calm and tranquil will allow Goku and Vegeta to use SSB to it’s fullest.
Thank you very much.
I remember back when the writers gave actual weaknesses to their power ups beyond "Muh stamina".
It would also be an incredibly interesting twist on the original concept with Super Saiyan 1 and 2. Goku at first became far more violent and brutal when he transformed, and Gohan was even more extreme turning downright sadistic. Completely twisting that and having a form which works on the exact opposite rules would be really unique. It could also lead to good character stuff. You'd assume Vegeta would be worse at this for obvious reasons, but he spent 20 years with his empire dead and as a lackey to Frieza. He's got more control over himself than anyone else, or else he'd be dead. The lack of self-control is a response to the constant need for controlling himself, he just can't keep the mask on 24/7. Goku has no self-control at all. It would be really neat for Vegeta to actually be better with the best form because controlling empathy and compassion is his strong suit.
Didn't they do this in the manga? When Merus got erased because he used all his angle powers, goku was trying to stay calm to actually achieve MUI?
The fact that Goten and Trunks look exactly like they did in Buu Saga if not younger is actually REALLY insulting. To give you a comparison, Kid Trunks is at the same age as Future Trunks when Future Gohan died. Please, just take a moment to compare Young Future Trunks from the Future Trunks Special with Super's Kid Trunks. It's ridiculous.
GT did Trunks and Goten’s age/design much better than Super
Dragon Ball Super should be non-canon.
And super retconed how saiyans grow
@@genesismultiverse4896 "it's ridiculous"
@@Chance57 and the reason is they were lazy
The big difference to me between Super and GT is that you can feel that GT was made by someone who genuinely enjoyed Dragonball and put effort into it but Super just feels hollow.
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Super Saiyan Legend and gt is good with a good story and characters, nobody has an issue with the show they just wish there was more stuff in it
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 most of the time gt wasnt really good the only things that hoestly was really amazing was obviously ss4 it was a new unique transformation that fit goku and vegeta, the shadow dragons was an interesting concept sometimes it felt off but was still ok to good if im being honestly, the ending was the best thing from GT because it felt exactly like an ending it was emotional and it felt like the true end and yet an offscreen beginning fr the characters and the ones to come
@@shockwavesyndrome6433 I'd say the only bad part about GT is the writing and plot executions
Dragon Ball Super - Hollow
The concept of GT was at the least interesting unlike super which was “Frieza is back” “Evil goku” “ and “Big tournament”
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I agree both of their ideas are intresting on their own (still I like gt's more) but the overall execution of them leaves so much to be desiredz they're quite underwhelming
@@jantheking7028 he loves Both Super and GT equally, he also expose the flaws of GT as well. In fact he is currently making a GT fan manga fixing the flaws of GT and making it into an interesting story. Watch his Dragon Ball GT: Redemption video and you’ll see.
@@jantheking7028 dude he said it himself that he loves both GT and Super equally. Who knows he might plan on making a Dragon Ball Super Redemption manga as well in the future.
I actually loved the search for the black star ball, it was like a grander scale of the early DB adventure episodes which I absolutely loved and still go back to from time to time. However, while I did like the concept of Pan at first, I just wished her character got proper development instead of always being a plot catalyst (we did see a bit of this during the dr miyuu part of the arc) and while not everyone is annoyed by power levels, when I watched GT, Goku saying Rildo is around the level of Buu while he was fighting him in his weakened, base kid form bothered me.
I commend you for making a video this long ✊
Xeno ok
I havent seen your videos in a long time
@@xeno4693 OK BOOMER
@@MattChuBoi755 +2
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I just realized how insanely stupid it is that Gohan can apparently become not just as strong as he was but even stronger with basically a day's worth of training, yet he was able to let himself go so badly that he couldn't even handle regular SSJ. Not even one day, a single day within several years. He has a power to protect his world but he can't spare even few hours per year to keep it up. That's honestly more irresponsible than anything Goku has ever done and just plain lazy. Like imagine if you could become Eddie Hall strong by just visiting gym once per year and you couldn't bring yourself to do even that much. You'd have to be the biggest loser ever to not do that. I'm sure they didn't wanna potray Gohan to be that bad but that's what you get when you can't pick your lane and stay in it when it comes character's training speed.
The writer made it clear gohan was never gonna be a fighter and the writers are too reliant on goku
That there no way in hell they’re gonna let gohan gets stronger
The very fact that Gohan in like a days worth of training could spar with Goku highlights my other issue with Super, the power scaling sucks, whats the point of Goku and Vegeta constantly training to reach new heights just for others (Frieza, Gohan, 17, Caulifla etc) to reach the same heights with 1/1000000 of the amount of training
@@Lulu-ew7ohit’s not the writer it is the fans.
Gohan was ment to replace Goku by Akira the writer’s will.
However, DBZ was a manga designed for japanese boys. In Shonen Jump there were character popularity polls. Gohan was not popular enough among japanese boys so they brought back Goku.
Gohan was ruined by the fans.
@@roberth4395yeah no you're both wrong it's toei. This is about money people nobody cares about your entertainment the entertainment you get is solely to make more money. They'll keep the story decent enough for it to keep going so they can sell more toys that's where the real money is why do you think Goku has numerous forms with different hair colors?They know they can get away with bad writing because most watchers are kids teens and idiots. People that mostly watch anime for fighting and transformation can barely analyze a story and they care even less so why would they up their writing? So yeah I guess you're partly right the fans are also at fault.
Syndrome's plan worked... "When everyone is super, no one will be."
Edit: Didn't expect the traction. Thank you kind strangers!
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Had a feeling you would catch that. Great content bro. Keep it up.
@@Law34prez nice incredibles refrence bruhh droppin GEMS!
@@theruddyone6443 They tried to warn us! Lol
"When everyone is a hero, no one is anymore."
My issue with Super is that it doesn’t feel like it has stakes or suspense. In dragon ball z, we had the frieza saga which gave us the iconic super saiyan transformation but it was a journey to reach that point and one that was worth it. In Super, it just feels like generic anime in some parts and the way some of the other characters are treated is just sad.
Not to mention in GT we had the Dragons and Baby. Baby was a legitimately threatening villian.
In Dragon Ball Z, no character was left behind. Even in the Cell Saga, Yamcha, Tien, and even Chi-Chi contributed. But then you look at Super, and wonder where every other Z Fighter went. At this point, the only important ones are the Saiyans and Piccolo.
And then there's the repeated bastardization and humiliation of one of the most memorable villains in anime, Frieza. Goku and Vegeta have gotten so powerful, that this once mighty threat is just a weekly "we have to deal with you, send you back to hell, and then repeat ad nauseam" comic book villain. That's honestly disheartening.
Ah yes, Future fucking Trunks arc had no stakes, fucking correct.
At least in Frieza saga and Cell Saga it had a lot stakes and suspense! At least they had to think of something in order to get the job done. In this tournament of power, there were so many problems that I lose count. I couldn't tell where is the ring out is at since they were like jumping on floating rocks. Can't they quickly repair it? It's so similar to the Cell games since Cell blow the ring up then they didn't have to worry about the ring anymore.
@@spiralmatt8946 They could.
Super is like bad fanfiction. Repetitive. Unoriginal. Poorly executed. There aren't even motivations, it's all 'eh, I guess I'll do this' or 'I need to get stronger because.' Full of prejudice (ie it's all goku and vegeta. To the point that they are themselves a parody of the Z counterpart, even regressing from previous arcs). Focuses on all the things fans like (fighting and forms) and none of the things fans don't realize they actually love (the cast, the unpredictability, failure + growth and the slice of life nature of its narrative). Sadly, even though it focuses completely on fighting there are never any stakes because with only two characters no one can really get hurt or die. Even the obstacles feel fake given the terrible scaling. It's all fluff.
I'd take an arc about small time criminals trying to get revenge on the Z fighters for accidentally stopping a robbery over the twentieth universal scale power battle.
Everything about Super just screams bad fanfiction.
"Super Saiyan... but BLUE!!!"
"Female Broly!!!"
"Evil version of Goku!!!"
It's all so hilariously awful.
Yeahh... thing is, in my opinion... many of the fan mangas totally surpass Super in every way. They should've just animated Dragon Ball multiverse, or something.
Even more the antagonists are soo bad. Oh I will come here and destroy earth (especially the latest two Manga arcs) . Oh let us make a tournament.
I've read some fan made mangas recently that were better drawn and had more soul in the story than super lol
@@stoheha Multiverse is one of the worst fan mangas out there.
And they literaly stole it already.
Goku's arc was always having an enemy more powerful and dangerous than he could be expected to face, gaining a mentor that can help him best his enemy, then besting more enemies until he completely outgrew his old mentor and needed a new one. But by the Buu saga, he had already pretty much outgrown every mentor in the universe and the afterlife, beaten a nigh invincible intergalactic threat and made even his most devoted rival acknowledge his superiority. This leaves only two options for the character. One is basically what Toriyama wanted for him. Namely, to retire Goku from fighting and turn him into a mentor. With neither new teachers nor new rivals, all there is for him is to pass the torch to Uub. Let him get old and live vicariously through whatever pupils there may be who can keep up with his training.
But no. The Dragon Ball franchise basically is the Goku franchise. If Gohan couldn't change that, Uub sure as hell couldn't. Goku can't be sidelined. So that leaves the second option -- just reset him. GT reset him by turning him back into a little kid whose other dragon balls. Super reset him by introducing literal gods and angels to act as his mentors and/or enemies and simultaneously undoing the better part of his nearly fifty years of experience. (Yeah, Goku has to be in his mid to late 40s in Super. Chew on that for a while.) Sadly, this makes Goku a rather lame character. He essentially stopped aging, changing or in any meaningful way even learning since his training on Yardrat.
But here's one more problem with the Goku reset that is Dragon Ball Super. It's back to Muten Roshi preparing Goku for the big martial arts tournament. Only Whis is Roshi. And that makes Vegeta the new Krillin. Isn't that a depressing thought -- Vegeta being the new Krillin?
That was his arc post timeskip/Z.
In Dragon Ball it was a bit different.
Collecting a Dragon Ball, becoming a pupil to Master Roshi, entering a tournament, Jackie Chun (Roshi) entering to show Goku and Krillin that no matter how strong they are, there is always someone stronger, Red Ribbon Army which Roshi could have defeated but it was a fun adventure arc, another tournament where Goku gets to test his new skills, but Roshi's point beign proven by Goku being defeated yet again by Tenshinhan. Piccolo Daimao debut, Dragon Ball takes a 360, it becomes darker. First death, not of some randos but of Krillin and Roshi, Goku's family at that point. From that point onwards that's when the classic formula began.
Arc 1 strong enemy.
Arc 2 stronger enemy.
Arc 3 even stronger enemy.
Arc 4 super duper stronger enemy.
It's fine tho, I liked the OG DB manga so much.
unless you smack bulma lmao
It's not depressing because Krillin is an AWESOME character, but yeah, the series should have let it go. The best thing would be to do a slice of life with Goku fooling around and the side Z fighters having their own thing
The worst spit on the face was when Piccolo lost TO A FUCKING BUG in Top
Ok out of all the things you are right
@IN REGENERATIONE shut up dude no one cares about your judgement on other opinions learn to accept others
@@fatman7052 that’s not what he’s saying but ok.
@@codered1132 I was a little annoyed when I commented this
I thought whenever they sensed someone's energy they were also able to sense their form and size?
I feel goku's stupidity in super was his version of mid life crisis 😂
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@The Holy EmperorITS OVER 9
@The Holy Emperor well Toriyama did thought Goku like that.
GT may have turned Goku into a child, but Super wrote him as if he was a child.
@@leultrainstinct406 I agreed with you on until the android thing he never forgot the time travel messed up the timeline causeing the virus to happen later. He has had dumb moments but the only bad ones were Buu and Cell. Cells was a gamble for gohan and not finishing off buu to let the new generation protect the earth was an oof.
Everything you said about Goku Black and the Future Trunks arc deserves a standing ovation. That arc had the most potential in Super imo🤦🏾♂️
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As nonsensical as the arc was, I actually liked it..........until the ending. The final episode was an absolute disgrace. I'd be more willing to forgive Spirit Sword over whatever the hell happened there
the evil containment botch was cringe
Goku black was a good villian. But they ruined Trunks..Dbz trunks was Nice asf!!
@@premiumdude8353 real talk, him forgetting the senzu beans was bad enough but the evil containment wave part was horrible writing, how could he forget the seal for the rice container smh
If I'm thankful to Super for anything, it's that it made me realize GT was not that bad at all.
GT while flawed in many ways, at least still tried new and interesting ideas
I'll never forgive the writers for ruining super saiyan and super saiyan god
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Mainly God like damn your just gonna make it useless right after Goku just got it
@@leultrainstinct406 is your back tingling?
They ruined it?
I keep telling my friends that there's no way krillin should've stood a chance against .3% of what ssj blue goku is but no goku wasn't trying
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I mean of course
Just like some star wars fans did with the sequels, I would gladly sign a petition to make DB Super non canon, this thing made me appreciate GT so much more.
Funny how at the start of the sequels, people were trashing the prequels.
Then TLJ came out and the prequels ruled.
Now even in the disney SW series they are doing stuff mostly in the prequel era, like Obi-wan (and still failing.
I would too, super ruined so many great things. Fusion, future trunks became a bitch, gokus character, and villains, just feels like a bad fanfic.
@@denkerbosu3551 I think they only dislike the prequel movies (*except episode 3 as it gotten a really nice amount of money*) until more lore came out like the two clone war shows,comics and novels to help make that help to become more likeable.
B r u h
@@mrphauker and we will never forget neither forgive vegeta being a mf who dance, but you're 100% right dbs is such a bad fan fic that it made me nuts to think that its canon
The thing about Ribrienne... as a Magical Girl fan she was _extra_ annoying because she was meant to be an insult to Magical Girl characters- and she wasn't even a good mockery. She could have been done well as a parody- even a mean spirited one- and maybe even been funny, but they instead just wrote her to be as annoying as possible. It's like _Toriyama forgot_ that the series is meant to be fun, not annoying. And on top of that, *why would you create a character specifically to annoy fans, and then give them a solid, what, ten episodes of screentime?* I very nearly didn't bother finishing after her fourth time taking a spotlight.
To make the parody ironic, Toei owns Sailor Moon and Pretty Cure, so that means they made a joke that didn't quite work on a genre two out of four their most popular anime come from.
I really like Dragon Ball GT. It does have its problems, just like Super has its problems - however, I seem to notice the passion that was put into GT. The original Dragon Ball has been overshadowed by Z, and instead of making a Z clone - it seems that they tried to combine the two whilst also making its own concepts - Black Star Dragon Balls, Super Saiyan 4 being its own unique design and not just a hair dye. The Dragon Balls actually having purpose other than being a plot device. Unlike Super, GT actually has stakes and consequences thankfully taking place after the end of Z.
As someone who had to adjust to his heritage and finally became proud of his heritage and didn't shy away from it, Goku Jr is probably the most relatable character for me. So please keep in mind my biases and I don't hate Super.
GT is a love letter to fans. It’s a shame we are just understand it now.
@ClubHop I rewatched gt and super and gt is so clear of super. Much better show even though I don’t mind super
@@PrinceOfFeels GT isn’t a love letter to shit tbh.
The broly movie was the only thing I really liked super related
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Yeah
Same.
No GoD & angels bullshit..no zeno, no new DBS characters. Just good ol classic materials.
same and that movie was just ok
@Dash Fetchem agreed
I miss when Goku was the underdog that put everything he had into fighting his opponents. Now he's grown into a guy who views everyone else as the underdog who have to "force" him to take a fight seriously, except even WHEN he brings out SSB, he holds back so much he's able to fight weaklings like Krillin without accidentally killing him. It's hard to tell a fight is serious when the main character is constantly underestimating his opponents because of how much his power has grown. In my opinion, SSG should have been the apex of Goku's power and the end of the entire franchise, fanbase be damned.
Thank you! Ssg should have been the end of all transformations. It would have been so clever, let enemies underestimate his looks only for goku to show that raw power. Plus it wouldn't be typical more muscles equals more strength, its thin and lean. And it could have made goku fight in a new way, being more calm and tactical. That would have made a smoother transition to ultra instinct (not the master version.) You can't even called it mastered ultra instinct because it's not even mastered. It should have just been omen, it would have made alot more sense, since gods of destruction can't master it, goku shouldn't have either. Ssg should have been the strongest transformation goku has and ultra instinct omen be his strongest technique.
@@leultrainstinct406 its hard to see super goku as an underdog when he doesn't grow and continues to lose and look like a rookie still despite having 40 years of experience, that's honestly sad.and no goku doesn't get help he gets saved by the gods and by bull shit writing.goku gets trashed down alot in super he obviously isn't holding back and checking out his opponents,if he is it ain't noticeable at all.SSJ4 and SSJ Blue are both fine tho
Let’s all remember it wasn’t goku that beat Cell it was Gohan and he needed the spirit bomb (which was the combined power of everyone in earth) to defeat Buu
Ssg should have been the only form in Super I agree.
@@leultrainstinct406 ur gonna forget ressurection f when goku stole the win from Vegeta, achieved the fancy schmancy forms to fight Beerus and Jiren first? Sure gt was also responsible for something similar but the goku winning formula wasn’t so prominent as it is today. And if ki control means spamming blue hair dye for no reason then it’s actually quite stupid. Like you don’t need to go ssgss in a base ball match or against arale
Toriyama began pissing on Yamcha very early on, shipping Bulma with Vegeta for some awful reason, crapping on the heads of original DB fans. Generally, disrespecting the past was always a great problem in this show, it began with the very introduction of Saiyans, which de facto made every human character a joke, rendered martial arts useless, and pretty much destroyed the show for me as an original DB fan. Even in the Cell saga, all of the androids (the old man and the fat guy, does anyone remembers them?) become a joke once Cell comes, and even Cell becomes a joke and replaced with a better Cell. Truly, somewhere around the middle of Z, it's become clear that you cannot bond with any character in this show without feeling cheated, excluding the by-that-point-boring-as-hell Goku and Vegeta
See most fans don't want to admit that lol.
I remember the year, 2005 to be precise, when I was watching Goku ask everyone to lend him energy to defeat Kid Buu. I lifted my arms high and proudly on that day, cheering him on. Those were the days, Vegeta wasn't chasing Goku's power anymore and respected him, choosing to get stronger for himself and his loved ones.
And when Goku woke up from the heart virus you get a little emotional because you felt like it’s going to be all right.
:')
No you do gawk gawk
Yesss that part made me want to put my hands up too.
i did the same thing but it was when gohan went ssj2 for the first time. i was powering up in the living and everything
I just don't like how Super doesn't seem like it has much of a story with any weight to it. Everything just feels like a self-contained long filler arc, and Beerus and Whis always being around just feels like they're hanging onto the series and living plot armor. There just doesn't seem to be much direction for the characters anymore. Its just "new thing shows up" like Smash Bros. And the whole thing with alll the characters other than Goku is just. "they want to protect their off screen families" as their shared motivation isnt really a plotline. Its a generic default status. Like they became the Justice League now, and not really anti-herioc martial artists anymore. I just don't think Super really does anything better than GT other than just better fights. GT had better arc plots imo.
Lol like Tien shienhan isn't also a prodigy, or idk LITERALLY every single fighter in dragon ball smh. Super has Shockingly bad writing at times.
Every fucking character in dragon Ball is a fucking prodigy... Master Roshi took 50 years to do the Kamehameha while Goku took 50 seconds, Tien literally made master Roshi quit martial arts even though he was a teenager, piccolo became stronger than his own father within 3 years of existing, Frieza without any training could actually hold his own with the legendary Super Saiyan and trained for 4 months so he could fight ssjb goku, the Android's we're stronger than SSJ by default and 17 became ssjb level from training on a fucking island, Gohan with only 4 years of training beat cell who was literally made up of all the strongest beings to exist at the time, Goten and trunks became SSJ at an earlier age than Gohan, Buu is the literal incarnation of evil, etc. Why is it so fucking weird for caulifla and kale to do the same exact shit every fucking character did? How can she be a mary sue? She has zero fucking wins and got humiliated by Goku. Goku was literally training her.
@@ASHtheSLUGCAT because it's dumb. No one but super fanboys liked the frieza or 17 getting that strong with zero explainations nor did anyone like goten and trunks getting ssj that early. By kale and caulifla people had just gotten tired of asspulls
Sorry there were grammar mistakes that my phone corrected.
To be completely fair caulifla and kale turned into mary Sues only because they were rushed, same goes for jiren. If only the story didn't rush their development, they could've been great. There were times it came really really REALLY close to being good. For instance jiren's backstory instead of just having jiren say "oH fRieNds aRe UseLeSs" over and over. They could instead delve deeper into how he disconnects himself from people because of his fear of lost, combined with his pain of betrayal and abandonment by his old friends. They got super close to it during the battle with goku but they ultimately just said "nah f*ck it, just make him swole." Same with kale and caulifla, especially kale. Her fear of being abandoned and left behind or being a burden to caulifla could've been explored more. Maybe a flashback of how caulifla always had to protect her and maybe even gets injured trying to. Perhaps delve a little deeper into why caulifla likes kale so much, it's not really explained, from the way caulifla is portrayed, it would seem like she'd hate kale because of how weak she is. Instead of making kale universe 6's broly, they could've lead with that but surprise us and show that she's actually that universe's gohan. Similar to gohan, she hates herself for allowing people to get hurt for her and causing more bad than good when she goes berserk, eventually it builds up and she's finally able to let it go and control her power. And it could literally be as simple as just giving a WHOLE episode (not just parts of one) dedicated to exploring kale and caulifla and another one for jiren, seeing those were the only opponents slightly focused upon in the T.O.P.
these are just my opinions and ideas feel free to disagree
So with SSG I thought any battle against someone as strong with that would basically destroy the universe, but then with blue being a stronger power, and freeza going from where he was to literally stronger than SSG out of nowhere, why didn't that fight alone destroy the universe?
THIS
Finally i found someone else who notices how much bullshit the ssg goku vs beerus fight is when it came to "shaking the universe"
Because of ki control... you know, the thing they learned in z.... the thing they mention
I think dragon ball needs to just take a leap of faith and let them fight in space not just a new planet. That’s what it should have been as a Super Saiyan God form. Just so fans can’t complain about the whole fighting on the planet thing. I definitely agree that worlds should be destroyed but come on by the fight with Cell they definitely had planet crushing ability just by shock waves of fighting on the planet. The way I see it is that it’s been a problem for a long time and at this point it’s just a logic we need to accept if they are not gonna fight in space. They have multi planet and universal but fight on the ground for scenery.
To emphasize how strong the villains are, you can’t have planet level opponents forever because goku and vegeta could just eventually surpass them. With this logic, anything past the original and early saiyans saga is practically pointless. The escalation is simply for fun, granted it does look stupid that universe busters don’t actively blow everything up. Even villains who supposedly want to kill everyone. There is practically nothing stopping frieza fork blowing up the earth and doing away with the saiyans in one fellow swoop.
@@turkeysgotmorecloutthanyou same thing with zamaus
Also. I love how you used the original Bardok as an example of no safety net. You root so hard for him that entire movie knowing he's going to die but you can't help yourself and get crushed when it happens! That was so good!
Easily my favorite Dragon Ball movie ever.
I don't even watch dragon ball super because of what I did to bardock. I could care less about goku's mom. She was better off as a mystery.
One thing I've learned lately is how to let go of a series that used to be good. So many series have an amazing season or two then dwindle off. I've learned to stop watching if there's enough bad episodes in a row.
Bad shows? Ain't nobody got time for that.
Lol like one punch man season 2 garbage
Here's a number of shows that suffered from a decline in quality due to multiple seasons
1. SpongeBob SquareSpants
2. Loud House
3. Johnny test
4. The Simpsons
honestly this is messed up, people wish that new shows would be like their own childhood but wake up its not 1992 anymore
u guys think that because dragon ball super isint dragon ball z u find an excuse to critisize it because it isint ur childhood its not about what u want its about what toriyama wants to do with the franchise. he ended Z because he wanted to go on to new things like super.. just like how naruto ended and boruto came along thats the same thing toriyama is doing with dragon ball
plus u guys say some things are lazy but cut them some slack, they work their asses off to give us a good show and u guys critisize them because its not *nostalgic*
@@MemeRaider Messed up part is that the manga is actually very good, but season 2 just sucked as an adaptation.
100% agree with everything. It felt soulless and directionless. The transformation fatigued and the shit treatment on the Z warriors so many missed opportunities wasted. My heart goes out to the animators that had to deal with forced hours by the company's demand and the death threat comments from their audience, they dont deserve any of it but the writers and staff production deserve every harsh criticism. I was one of those defensive people that defended "Super" cause I spent time and energy start to finish but while looking back on it, the journey was a huge headache and pain in the ass. There's some to like about "Super" slice of life moments and fights too. I was debating whether to collect the DBS anime on bluray to complete my DB series but instead I'll just stick with the physical manga and buy GT instead.
Bro refused to buy mid to buy below mid instead 💀
Yeah Super may be canon since it happens after Bulmas birthday party & before the final tournament when Goku fights uub In DBZ but since it was done soo bad & without love it’s a cartoon now that’s not canon In the eyes of fans. I think GT comes after DBZ ending since Goku is in his blue Gi & Pan was born in the last episode of Z by Gohan & now she’s a full grown teen in GT.
You put it perfectly.
Why dont' you just buy nothing and stop being a mindless consumer....
Least you admitted your mistake.
@@Soniman001super is WAYYY below mid too.
I'm glad you agree that Goku's character was downgraded in some type of way. There have been people that say that his character hasn't changed, but there was a noticable difference in Super. I get that DBS was supposed to be kid friendly but they took away the aspects of Goku that we knew and loved. I ended up liking Vegeta as a character more and more as Super went on because you could see the notable character growth for him while my love for Goku decreased as Super continued until midway through the TOP. Loved the video!!!!
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I hate that they pretty much continued Vegetas character arc of needing to be stronger than Goku
But Gokus intelligence drop was ridiculous and even worse imo. Yes we know he isn’t a “hero”, we know he fights for fun. Stop making him into an idiot though, Toriyama! The man would be serious if his universe was at stake, he’d want to beat Jiren not just cause he’s strong but because he knows he has to pass this hurdle to save his loved ones and many innocents.
@@ziongamer6905 It would've been fitting in a way and would've been a better way to introduce the idea that Vegeta was going to achieve power in his own way like he was saying in the TOP. I don't think Goku becoming less intelligent or kid friendly was Toriyama, it was whoever was in charge of writing the anime story because Toriyama just gave them a guideline for stories and they had to add what they thought was good while keeping the notes that Toriyama sent it to them
Exactly. They did to goku what they did to patrick star and cosmo. Characters that werent the smartest had that dumb trait amped up
Lee Moore the only people who think super goku is the same as Japanese z goku are TFS fanboys, watch the last dragon ball saga in Japanese against Majunor, you’ll see Japanese goku at 18 is far smarter and far less silly as super goku
The sad thing is that Dragon Ball has a lot of intriguing characters and stories they could explore but the creativity of the writers is not coming off on screen.... no imagination.
I'd rather watch a hand drawn Z Warriors series. Tien, Yamcha, krillin, protecting earth and innocent people. Have Goten in there and have an arc where he has to step up and save the planet while everyone else is far off.
I honestly don't understand the lack of spin offs... if they are successful, you can incorporate cross series stories or bring them together for movie features.
Dragonball fans fall into two categories...
Those who stopped at Z and those who suffer from clinical depression...
LOL
I stop in Gt, and i prefer to believe that Dbs never existed and Dbgt is cannon.
if I had to give a note to these two I would give:
Dbgt: 5/10
Dbs: 2/10
@@ElissonDSouza if this makes you feel a bit better I heard a theory that super is canon to dbz kai and gt is canon to the original series
Goddamn that is true for me!
I suffer an high case of disillusion because of dbs just keeping to be a disappointing mess, AND STILL BEING CONSIDERED GOOD by seemingly the majority of fans!
"Ur opinions are wrong"
My biggest problem is how they changed Goku and Vegeta
1: Goku was much serious and less stupid in DBZ
2: Goku doesn't care if a universe blows up, he only cares about fighting and rarely takes it seriously, not only that but the only time be seemed actually serious is in the Goku Black saga when Black killed Chi Chi and Goten.
2: Vegeta was peaceful, and had huge characters development more then ever, he even shared food with Majin Buu for god sake. He even sacrificed himself to protect Goten and Trunks, he agreed to fuse with Goku permanently(even though it wasn't permanent.) And admitted to himself that Goku was #1.
Yeah that’s true
But no. Toriyama just decided to regress them for the sake of making more money.
Exactly,they ruined vegetas character and made him into a literal joke too,vegeta during the climax of the buu saga was very mature and addmited that goku was #1 but now in supers hes very whiny and still acts like a bozo
@@darling.............. & they even regressed Bulma too.
@@rubberballoonlover5471 I assume you're referring to the "using the Dragon Balls to make herself younger or give her a bigger butt" thing. If that's the case, I do agree wholeheartedly.
RUclips: You're limit is the 10min mark boi
Saiyan scholar: You underestimate my power and knowledge of dragonball
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Saiyan Scholar: (Hits 10 minute mark) AND THIS IS TO GO EVEN FURTHER BEYOND!!!
RUclips: NANI?!!!
@@craigpeoples9883 lol
I just realized it was 2 hours long lmao
I think super shows whats wrong with a lot of anime in general.
dumbing down of characters, constant gags, not funny jokes.
just feels like a lot of this is just made for 11 and under.
I didn’t mind Universe 6 Saiyans being almost completely opposite of the Saiyans on Universe 7. It was just the execution and ruining of Super Saiyan that made them awful.
That and making Frost a Freiza clone was fucking atrocious.
True
@@Nephalem2002 Well it IS Universe 6 sooo....
@@tentaplayz3691 Actually, that should be the crudest but still effective way to justify Frost NOT being evil like Freeza, he just ended up being nothing more than a stereotype creator!
They could of made achieve super saiyan on their own before our universe met them it would make more sense
The absolute truth can NEVER be debunked! Thank you, Scholar. This video does my soul good. BTW this review had more heart in it then the actual thing!
Thank you Scholar! And that's why I'm sad... That this had more heart than WHAT WE DESERVED! 👊🏻
Word I enjoyed watching you tear the show apart more than watching the show.
#GFM
@@SaiyanScholar all things that i was hiding in my heart . you said it bro ,OUR THOUGHTS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME. WE COULD BE GREAT FRIENDS
@@jeffreytorres2539 bruh😂
U should make a shirt saying "it's the writers fault"
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So he can take my time and then my money sure
@Cody Ingram OOOO but its written in like the logo style of that franchise thats a good idea man
@Cody Ingram thanks man id buy a terminator style one cuz FUCK that series is a big victim of its the writers fault
@Ish Moore For real !
I really wish Goku Black as an alternate version of Goku who never hit his head rather than some higher deity taking over his body
That would've been better. I'm sure people thought that's what it was until that other guy came.
Honestly I feel like alot of us were thinking that back then an it really would’ve shown goku how messed up he would’ve been if he never hit his head as a baby
But if that was the case they would have been forced to make him not come from future Trunks's timeline because remember that the Goku from that timeline died due to the virus
@@DaggerZ555 and? I’d take that over the convoluted ass Zamasu trash.
They never even had to make SSB a form. Honestly they could have made a mastered god form have the SSJ look but with the badass red/fire aura.
IT woudl've been...
Fire.
haha i'm hilarious and you'll quote this
Ssj God to ultra ego or ultra instinct would of been cool
Nah
Just orange, not a blue color which I don't know where it comes from.
ssg looks way better than ssb too
Oh I'm ready for this let me get comfortable.
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I literally grabbed dinner for this. Someone is right on like I am about this cash grab.
If I could sum up DBS in a one sentence it will be "Just add things, it will do great with the kids". Who cares about logic and established lore and world/character building.
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“dRagOn bAll dOeSnT hAvE cHaRaCtEr dEveLo-“
m.ruclips.net/video/jc3SePFYqtY/видео.html
Not even just kids. It'll do well just because it's db.
Something I recently felt I really hated about Super is that there never seems to be a consequence or cost in anything hanging over an arc or a power ups. It all feels like its just an episodic easy arc that has no stakes to them. And fights feel very formulaic.
Like at least the Cell saga had costs. Vegeta wanted to prove his potential so he let Cell become perfect. The cost of that was Cell being too strong for him and he took it.
that they let the Androids wake up, because they wanted to meet the next challenge, but at the cost of being killed and the Earth being systemically destroyed so they trained in motivation for it. Also Fighting 19 and 20 had a risk of them using their ki, it getting absorbed by them. A cost, a risk.
Or in the Buu arc. Vegeta wanted to fight Goku again because they never had a rematch post Super Saiyan, but that came at the risk of Buu. But Vegeta had no choice because Goku would only be there for a day then back to the dead. Vegeta risked Buu waking up for his fight but he only had one option to get it. He at a cost became evil to force Goku to fight him. At the cost of him killing people and then they fought at the cost of Buu's energy waking him up. There was at least always a cause, an effect and a risk in the plot of the arcs to keep them interesting, Thats what tension is.
Super doesn't have that at all. Power ups have no cost, risk or consequence. In Z it was the Oozaru, the risk of losing your mind and the weakness of the tail being cut. Then with SSJ Goku risked losing control of his anger to it, when he yelled at Gohan. Freeza at 100% risked getting weaker because of body strain.
In the Cell arc, SSJ grade 2 cost the Saiyans their speed for muscle if they couldn't figure out how to ascend instead of power up. SS2 Gohan got it but at the cost of him losing himself to his Saiyan instincts and arrogance in the power difference. In the Buu arc, Majin Vegeta had to fight back against Babidi's commands to keep his released mind and power. SS3 the cost of the strain due to it being difficult to do outside of the afterlife or another dimension which was consistent. Fusion had the cost of either getting it wrong, or running out of time from power usage. Potata (formally had a cost unique to it) where it was irreversable. Fighting Super Buu was a risk because he could just absorb you if he was losing. Kid Buu as well or he'd just blow up the planet at random.
But in Super whats the cost of SS God? SSB? Hakai power? Ultra instinct? What are the risks, and consequences in the arcs?
Nothing. Freeza especially can just asspull power ups too, just training for a few minutes a day. Its awful.
What exactly makes any of these arcs interesting? Sure the TOP has the risk of getting deleted forever, but even that they just forfeited at the last minute because Zeno changed his mind.
That DISGRACE part will never get old
Looll
I'll tell you what happened. Dragon Ball Z had a resurgence in popularity and some studio big wigs thought it would be a good idea to bring it back. when they made Dragon Ball Super, they ignored the shows that came before it and toned it down to be more kid friendly.
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Too bad we live in this times when only a few companies actually care about money more than content like toei which pretty much sums up what db is today, a cash cow. But because it's db it'll never die or lose popularity
@@Gokis47 true man but at least they deliver meaningful shit that's true to the comics and franchise
@@Gokis47 the MCU started off caring, but I feel like they stopped caring at some point in phase 3.
@@Gokis47 Endgame was not a good movie. I thought I liked it at first, but that was just because of the hype. after some time passed, I realized that it actually sucks. most major character development happened off screen. it completely wasted opportunities for good storytelling that was built up. Bruce Banner and the Hulk becoming one happened off screen, despite being built up since the Incredible Hulk. Iron Man learning how to forgive not only Captain America, but also his own dad. Rocket dealing with the loss of the Guardians of the Galaxy, which was built up in the second Guardians movie. Captain America undid his character arc from Age of Ultron when he said that he didn't want a family anymore. Black Widow didn't even get her own funeral, she had one scene where everyone was sad and that was it. her death should have been devastating on Hulk, since their romance had been built up in Age of Ultron. Thanos in Endgame is a different Thanos than the one in Infinity War, so this movie gives us no reason to care about him since his personality is different. Captain Marvel didn't even need to be in the movie because she contributed nothing that couldn't be done by other characters. if the Infinity Stones being gone is so bad, then why hasn't the main MCU timeline been completely destroyed by not having Infinity Stones for 5 years? why didn't the Avengers go back in time to when Thanos had all the Infinity Stones, just slightly before the snap and cut his head off while Thor was trying to make Thanos suffer? if Captain America traveled back in time to an alternate timeline and never returned, how did he show up in the main timeline as an old man? especially since Hulk literally stated in this movie why that wouldn't work. why did they ruin a potentially great scene where Iron Man and Nebula find their way to Earth by having Captain Marvel just randomly find and save them? it would've worked much better if they had Iron Man get back using only his genius and limited tech. it would mirror Iron Man 1 perfectly and it would've worked great seeing as it was Iron Man's last movie. one scene that I really liked was when Ant-Man made it back to the world to find half of everyone gone. I was expecting some heartwarming dialogue with him and his daughter, but it never came and it was just skipped over. Star-Lords return to Earth should've been a big moment for him, seeing as he hasn't been there since he was a kid. I know they couldn't have that much time to do much, seeing as the movie has a lot of characters, but I would've liked to see him look around or saying something about Earth, but we didn't get anything close.
Now this is a true fan of dragon ball taking the time to explain in detail how the series is. really great video and explaination as always
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@@SaiyanScholar 👊
@The Prime Star yeah it's kinda sad people try to explain everything that super puts out like that tingly back shit
@The Prime Star actually most people i met loves gt more. I am not a huge gt fan but i like some stuff in gt more than super(mainly ss4). To me gt started off bad and got better when it went along while super started off good and got worse over time.
@The Prime Star to me super was good and bad more like 60% bad 40% good. Tings like super saiyan god( to a degree super saiyan blue) kaioken blue,hit, universe 6 saiyans, and an more stuff about the angels but i see your point
I felt like the SSJ God form (with red hair) should’ve been Goku and Vegeta’s god forms for the entirety of super, up until Ultra Instinct. I felt like once we got the God form it was instantly replaced by Super Saiyan Blue (which in my opinion is the point in which I said there are too many transformations).
Plus, it is cool that it is a color change of their base hair. It made it feel special.
Saiyan Scholar, you're a GODDAMN ROLE MODEL!
👊🏻
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Dbs fanboy: I bEt yOu wOn'T fInD 10 iSsUeS aBoUt dBs!!
Saiyan Scholar: Hold my "what the hell happened".
Lmfao
I could hold a lecture about all issues in Super and release books about it. There are that many.
@@M3rtyville And there is a lot of issues in dragon ball gt too. But I still like it both have their flaws, But that doesn't stop me from thinking it was a good series.
@@jameslopez5442 Gt's flaws are mild compared to Super.
Z and original Dragon Ball had also their flaws.
Super's flaws are far more damaging. And there is more bad than good. I can't name anything good about Super from the top of my head.
People that hate GT, even those who didn't watch it, can name things that are good about it.
@@M3rtyville If that show didn't had the word "dragon ball" attached to it nobody would have watched that trash
DBGT: Do you believe your own hype that much?
DBS: I AM HYPE!!!!!
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This!!
Ssj4 Vegeta : kill him !
@@leultrainstinct406 nice bait. Toriyama never said he hated gt, he actually liked it. You only want to believe he hated it because you hate it. Your pathetic.
@@leultrainstinct406 pathetic
The thing about Future Trunks is that he would have jumped at the Super Saiyan God ritual. He was not someone ruled by his pride, and was always much more focused on getting the job done. It could have been a great contrast to the feelings Goku expresses during Battle of Gods. Suppose the reason he came back was not to beg for Goku and Vegita to come with him and fight his battles for him, but because he somehow learned about the ritual and came back to the main timeline because he knew there were enough Saiyans alive to perform the ritual in that timeline.
most comments on this video, usually stupid or annoying, but this i adore, this could legit be good and could've had some type of ssjrage afterwards and it make more sense as his hybrid version of ssjb
God I love your section on Goku, finally someone GETS IT!! A mature and respectable Goku who we can look up to, but who also when he does something silly like "MY BUTTS ON FIRE" in the frieza fight, it's actually a funny moment, a treasured part of his character. DBs destroyed him by turning him into a complete dumbass and I hate DBs Goku so much. Thank you for recognising this and bringing it out. You've solidified me as a fan of your work.
If you want a glimpse of a mature Goku I think you should read the db heroes manga. Xeno Goku is the most serious one.
Best goku was when he was trying to find bulmas balls
Turned goku into luffy
@@monicavulvatron3800 Dragon Ball heroes always does a great job of making Goku look like a toatal bad ass and a mentor. I enjoy watching those trailers where suddenly you and your hero feel like you'll be okay because SSJ3 Goku is standing right behind you looking more serious than Picollo
loved that section
The passionate “that dragon ball fan” speech at the beginning rivals Goku’s super saiyan speech on namek. That passion, preach! Literally your video at that point alone is already better than most other db youtubers videos put together. Bravo my friend 👏🏼
👊🏻 Thank you Scholar.
Preach for the true speaker of the community! 👍
@@SaiyanScholar gt has bad things but super simpely 99% of time sucks
“That Dragonball fan who would stay up all night playing Budokai Tenkaichi 3 late at night”
That line was when I knew this video was going to be 🔥.
Bringing back memories
Why can't they make a game as good as Tenkaichi 3 bro why
literally made me tear up
good old times 💪
The ONLY honest youtuber with a HONEST opinion of super and the current state of the DB franchise. Literally agreed entirely with every point made! Well done. You should be the one leading the writing for the show to be honest.
There’s so many dbs is trash videos though
@@yorknew423 I wonder why?
@@trapG0LD710😂😂
That guy Totally not Mark didn't seem like a huge fan and many others, don't know why you had to put ONLY in caps like no one else has done it before because I've seen plenty of them.
I never had a problem with GT. The travel in space reliving Dragonball was slow and underwhelming but once Baby was introduced it was great. It was great story. It ended well and it left you emotional. All the legends pass on and Goku leaving on the Dragon with a grandson that look just like him.
GT just semed better, because its arcs al tied in together and didn't feel as random and generic as Super's.
@@GeteMachine True. I agree. Plus I enjoyed them having consequences from over using the dragon balls
GT was mediocre at BEST but I prefer it as a whole over DBS
Wait I have a question did GT goku died in the end or did he went into the dragon realm?
I really loved how it made Great Apes relevant again and Super Saiyan 4 in general is a goddamn national treaaure, I am enamored with that form in particular.
My problem with anything after the cell Saga is what they did to Gohan's character. I fully agree with every argument in this video; especially the retcon of the super Saiyan. Even Gohan's transformation in the time chamber was much more meaningful and even more difficult to maintain than ANY of the universe 6 Saiyans. My question is how did the universe 6 Saiyans get so strong without any real struggle? We saw Gohan fight from raditz, to vegeta, to frieza, to garlic jnr; the training and struggle that made Gohan who he was, was completely and utterly wasted.
U6 sayians are more advanced than u7 sayians
@@blue-12316 don't give that bullshit excuse. No amount of "advanced" means that crap. They haven't even been in the brutal battles that u7 Saiyans have so them being more evolved makes no sense
@@ZarrarAAli then why don't they not have tails
@@blue-12316 Regardless of them getting super saiyan (you could argue that is from their advancement), they are a mostly peaceful race, whom never encounter conflicts to become stronger.
The only explanation is that "they are just better", which would be fine with any other alien race, but these are saiyans.
If they truly were more advanced than the U7 saiyans, then why did they need super saiyan? Why did they not have something unique of their own, like technology, or advanced techniques?
Anything could have shown they were obviously different, but instead, they're mostly just "high potential" like every other saiyan.
It's just so disappointing. If they are different, give them something to make them different (minor visual changes aren't enough).
Edit: I actually like the characters we were given, but they could have been so much more interesting.
Love and Peace folks.
@Simple Man1 they have more potential than u7 sayians but what you say is good
This was the ULTIMATE "BECOME A DISGRACE!!!!!!", because it's sadly true
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@@SaiyanScholar 👊
I don't really care about dragon ball, but I have massive respect for someone who isn't afraid to come across as an asshole for asserting his points with confidence.
Saiyan Scholar said things about DBS that Geekdom or Seth the Programmer would never say because it'd hurt their sub count. Saiyan Scholar is a GOD DAMN ROLE MODEL.
I've always stuck by my view to Dragon Ball ever since I first started.
1000% facts. They all jerk goku off and are too scared to really critique the show. There's a war on quality going on.
@Roman Francis I feel you but thats kind of a given. No need to play both sides this is a critique video. Just let it burn its okay.
Albert The Peacock Seth the programmer is a hack who actively ignores feats and quotes in the show to support his stupid bunk math because he wants to believe every character in super is multiversal and geekdom is an egomaniac whose literally never seen dragon ball or gt
Roman Francis power scalers who ignore the show in place for their head canon are scum
So glad I came across this video. Always felt in the minority when I would say Super sucked and ruined Goku. Fans are in denial.
True
i wouldn't say there in denial, just the few who like it. dragon ball super has done more damage to dbz than anything else. the fandom has only gone down as of late. to give you an idea of what I'm talking about, I remember people were still comparing dbz to shows all the way up to resurrection f. People were still talking about dbz, it fan creations, the hate for gt was still strong. i remember it all. then super came out, and all that began to die slowly. nowadays, only a few die hard are still acting like it was 10 years ago. it sad
I kinda like Super but at the same time it does suck.
XD
the problem is its just like music if the new music is the it thing quote on quote people will like it cuz ots new and its music but not all new things are good I never lolee super never will watch it unless I have friends telling me watch this or watch that I'm the same with music and vars not all new things ate hoid that's just me
I knew Super was going to suck from day 1. From Battle of Gods, I knew that if it wasn’t a stand alone film, they had ruined Dragonball. How? Because if they continued, all it was going to be was another, generic power creep show. Goku gets the power of a FUCKING GOD! Literally the Super Sayian GOD. No one should be able to stand up to him, period. Goku is now the strongest mortal to have ever lived and to even hint that anyone would even come close to strong enough was laughable. Instead, we have Vegeta achieving the same thing off screen, and now they have a new transformation, and now Gohan is just as strong, and now Freeza is slightly stronger but he can’t maintain the form. Wait… FREEZA? The guy who couldnt stand up to a normal, brand new Super Sayian that had a fraction of the power of a Full Powered Super Sayian? Which was half as strong as a Super Sayian 2? Which was also left behind by Super Sayian 3, Mystic Gohan, and fusion powers? Freeza is now STRONGER than not only a god, but a god with the power of a Super Sayian? How? Oh… he TRAINED FOR FOUR MONTHS?!?!?!?! THATS IT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME!? And then it was all down hill from there. Now everyone is as strong as a god, other universes have people just as strong as Goku and Vegeta in base form just cause. New Sayians can turn Super Sayian 2 in a week. Everything that made Z great has been shit on or thrown out the window. Super is pure, unadulterated garbage and has been since its inception. I feel like Scholar is saying good things about the beginning only to soften the blow that Super is pure shit, because it was pure shit from the very beginning. There was NOTHING about the show that wasn’t generic and disrespectful to its past from DAY ONE. Ive never liked Super and to see everyone coming around because the initial hype has died down, the very same people who called me stupid or how i don’t know shit about Dragonball or whatever, are now making videos explaining why it sucks is frustrating at the least. Stop kidding yourself that Super was anything but a soulless, empty cash grab, because it wasn’t. Not even the parts that Scholar says he liked. They were shit wall to wall. Stop being blinded by nostalgia. Just because your favorite show is coming back doesnt make it good or even welcome. Remember that the creators have to actually care if you want your show to be anywhere near as good as it used to be.
I’m just now watching it after not watching it in high school when it came out. I can’t stand it. They truly ruined Goku. It’s so out of character for him to just straight up not care about the fate of Trunks’ timeline and also the other universes. All he cares about is fighting strong people. He’s always been childlike, but not to this extent.
EDIT: I also think GT is leagues better than Super.
Understandable
Y’all mad picky
I just don’t think you understand Goku’s character which is fine but stop pretending that you do.
@@NOTCOLEADA I’ve read and watched dragon ball for years. This is just my personal take. There’s not some objective character surrounding Goku. He’s more or the less the poster child for the stereotypical protagonist, not that there’s anything wrong with that.
@@NOTCOLEADA really
The best compliment I can give Super is "It's like a fan fiction that has a couple of cool scenes, yet it completely spits in the face of the original and every so often you feel like the authors never watched the original."
No suspense. (Goku LITERALLY has a multiverse eraser on speed dial)
Frieza gets the biggest ass pull power up I've ever seen.
Don't like the female saiyans for the same reason I don't like Goten and Trunks.
General ass pull power ups that don't make any sense.
It is entertaining to watch and the music is great but I don't get the same excitement watching dbs as I did watching the previous series installments.
👊🏻
Finally someone's saying it. Friezas 4 months of training caught him up to goku and vegeta's decades worth of training and zenkai boosts. Plus he didn't face in adversity while training right? He just tortured his henchman, like he's been doing for generations. With the fact people except such bad writing constantly, its no wonder dragon ball die hards get such a bad rep.
Toei/toriyatard:yo frieza has been in hell for 15 years, he could've easily trained all those years, reaching golden form as he has crazy potential. But nah let's just have him train for 4 months cuz f* common sense right
@@notisttt1240 Such a simple solution that makes so much since. Frieza could have trained with the most powerful and dangerous people in hell for years instead of torturing a zarbon level pawn. Since he would have infinite ki and stamina in the afterlife, it would serve as a good reason why he doesn't know how to properly maintain his gold form same as ssj3 goku in the buu saga.
@@notisttt1240 tbh if someone asked me before dbs what power frieza would be at if he "trained" and got a new transformation....high balling him I'd put him around semi-perfect cell level.
I'm glad Frieza is back, but damn they should have come up with something more than him beating up a henchman for 4 months and all of a sudden he goes from going toe-to-toe with an untrained super saiyan to trading blows with ssb goku. And I dont even wanna get started on how you can increase your stamina by not moving smh
What you said about Goku made me realize why I disliked Goku recently. He used to be one of my favorite characters in DBZ, someone I looked up to, and was happy and excited to see him enter the battlefield, and even then it wasn't just a straight win, he genuinely struggled. The other characters may not be as strong as he is, but you knew they could keep up with him. And Goku always seemed to do the right thing for the right reasons. Sure, he liked fighting, and he enjoyed fighting against other strong fighters, but he still loved the life he had. It was clear he cared for his family and friends to not want to see them get hurt.
And yet... Super's Goku felt incredibly dumb, insensitive, and whiney. He didn't seem to care about his family, he just cared about fighting strong people and getting stronger himself. That's all he ever cares about in Super, and eating lots of food I guess. He became stupid, regressing back to his first appearance in Dragon Ball before Bulma found him. It really felt like he didn't care for anyone, he was just happy to be able to fight against strong guys.
Heck, apparently, according to Vegeta, non royal Saiyans can't love their family. Excuse me, WHAT? Goku being a Saiyan should NOT be the excuse for every stupid thing he does in Super. Not only does it retcon a lot of DBZ's lore of Saiyans, and Goku as a character, but it just feels like something Toriyama pulled out his butt as his excuse for making Goku incredibly dumb and selfish. And hearing that apparently Goku was always meant to be portrayed as this rather than the heroic Goku in the English dub just made me dislike Goku in Z now, feeling like that Goku was a lie.
No matter how you look at it, Super's Goku is not Goku. It's just a shell of Goku, stripped of his personality, and only given the trait of loving to fight, and acting like a completely idiot that apparently people love.
No you are definitely right
I believe it’s that usually for Non-royal Saiyans to get marry as its consider abnormal in their society or very minor thing that concurs.
I mean in Bardock: Father of Goku it didn’t seem like Bardock cared about his wife or mother of his sons too.
They seem to expand that a bit more recently.
@@viruschris3160 Which do you consider 'canon' in the Dragon Ball universe? The manga or the special? Because apparently in the manga, Bardock *did* actually care for his wife. Besides, even if that were the case, that still doesn't make it okay. It was something that was only brought up in Super. In Z, while Goku isn't father (or husband) of the year, he was still protrayed as caring about his family as opposed to Super where he mostly acts like a child who ditches them just because he didn't want to do farm work.
@@DarkFoxKit For Bardock? Sadly, the manga is more or less the “canon” one for the current story of Dragon Ball.
Though I like the Special more and think it COULD still be canon to the series but with obvious tweaks.
I miss the team of 5 Saiyans with all various looks, Bardock being a more typical Saiyan you expect from the warrior Saiyan race. The visions.
While I love the introduction of Gine, even the game Dragon Ball gave her good spotlight for her, I wish it didn’t undermined the Special.
And it was that Special that allowed Bardock to exist and Akira to add him in the Frieza saga. Yet it was swept under the rug.
@@viruschris3160 Yeah. Truth be told, I really liked the Special too. And I like to think the reason why Saiyans didn't care about their mates is because of their culture, not because it's biological like Super seems to be heavily implying.
By the time I got to the SSG section, I realized this wasn't a 10 min video, but by then I didn't care and just lived to hear Scholar says *DISGRACE* once again
👊🏻
This man is so honest and truly understands why people regard the original and z so much instant subscription for honesty 😊
Thank you so much!
My biggest problem with super is the art style it looks so stuf and plastic like and how normal people who don't even have god kai are able to keep up blue. The writers have no idea what they're doing
I hated the God Ki it literally felt that tournament of power was a waste 🗑
They should rename it to DragonBall Super Trash
That anime looks far worse than Z, I don't know how there's people who say it looks better, when it is just a lot of "pretty colors" splashed all over the place.
Krillin tanking ssj god goku Kamehameha 🤡🤡
@@luis-sophus-8227 Black goku arc, and Z has bad animation too.
**Sees notification and thinks it’s the usual 5 to 10 minute video**
**sees its 2 hours**
Me: 👁👄👁 **prepares snacks for this journey**
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Dragon ball z was the peak of the dragon ball anime as a whole, I’ve been watching dragon ball for 20 years and super is the most confusing , convoluted, dragon ball series it lacked true character development, it’s so many forgettable characters thrown at you that you forget to care
To be more precise, the Frieza Saga (Saga Saiyan and Namek Saga) was the peak of Dragon Ball as a whole.
@@jundullah9869 yea when goku turned super sayian it was all down Hill after that
@@Notthefather91 yeah lmao, but not just this, its more about the action, the suspens, the story telling, the scenario, the character development, all of these was better and more succulent in these sagas.
@@jundullah9869 ? I would say Cell was peak. Buu saga was still interesting too, Gotenks could’ve been way more interesting in the plot development
@@juliuscaesart Cell and Buu while still good story arcs, didn't have the same feeling of adventure, exploration, martial arts and danger as the late DB/early DBZ parts. The androids were original, but since Cell it basically became open season on villains obtaining new forms and copying other fighter's moves.
Dragon Ball Super feels like a show made by people that never watched any official Dragon Ball and only watched Dragon Ball Z Abridge
Yeah, even akira (author of DB) forgotten his own story
It’s funny how Gt being non canon is completely derived from the fans and has never been stated officially ever
So true!
Actually Toriyama himself said GT is a side story to the main timeline
GT is a side story and non cannon said by Toriyama
@@lilosi445 That means it not manga canon but it's canon to dbz the anime. Supers anime is canon to Kai and supers manga is toriyama manga canon. Three canons. Not really complex.
@@fridaynightnicktoons6885 Nah whats canon to Z is Super now. They erased GT stuff
1:50:35 Wow, I just got chills thinking about what the Goku Black arc could have been. Vegeta facing off against an evil Goku who murdered Bulma. Imagine Vegeta's emotions here as he stares at Goku Black, the face of the man he once despised, but over the years grew to respect as an ally, a friend, and a superior fighter. Goku has changed Vegeta from a cold blooded killer to one of the greatest heroes in history, a man dedicated to redeeming himself and protecting his family from people like the villain he once was long ago. Now, he has to fight "Kakarot", the fight he once craved, like in the Majin Vegeta arc, when he killed innocent people just to force Goku to fight him seriously. Imagine the shame Vegeta would feel fighting Goku Black, realizing that this enemy may look like Goku, but deep down he's more like how Vegeta used to be, a monster. Vegeta would be like a fan losing faith in the hero he once idolized. This is Goku, someone he aspires to be like, to one day surpass, to become worthy of Goku's legacy of heroism, to gain Goku's approval and respect, but now Vegeta's rival is unrecognizable. Vegeta can't derive any enjoyment or satisfaction from fighting THIS Goku. Imagine the banter of Goku Black insulting him for becoming weak and soft, of being a disgrace to the Saiyan race. Imagine Goku Black saying "isn't this what you always wanted? To finally get your revenge of Kakarot? What are you waiting for? This is your big chance!" In fact, screw the name "Goku Black" altogether. Let's have this version of Goku reject the name Goku given to him by Grandpa Gohan, a human, in favor of his Saiyan name, Kakarot. This could have been the best arc in Super, the most tense, emotional, impactful, and epic arc in Dragon Ball history. What a damn waste.
Jesus dude, write, even a little, with that, really touching ideia
Terrible idea on the basis that Dragonball Super is the drizzling shits!
It’s like a Disney cartoon!
Why would Black know about the history between Goku and Vegeta? I think you’re just a Vegeta fan lol
Super never brought Future Gohan back. It’s stupid to have the best version of Gohan be gone forgood.
Yeah honestly I thought it was gonna come to this when I heard Goku black I thought vegeta was gonna beat him but……nope
The "mystic" form should've been a precursor to ultra instict. In other words, ui should be a fusion of mystic and God ki. That would make perfect sense since mystic in buu saga seems to render ssj forms obsolete.
Of course cause Gohan was given powers. Let's also not mention how many times "his potential was unleashed" we thought his potential was unleashed by Guru when they were on Namek only to get past Namek,Androids & Cell only to get to Buu where he has even more potential to unlock smh.
And how blatant and in your face can the show be to GIVE GOKU AND GOHAN FOS THEY DIDNT TRAIN FOR SSG & MYSTIC.
No one else was given power
Problem is that ui isn’t just a form, you also need a state of mind and a couple of other miscellaneous prerequisite. The only thing ui and ultra have in common is that they are both above the conventional ssj forms, but are different in practice. Besides that making him much easier to get then it already was, goku already had his potential unlocked with the ultra divine water so we know ui doesn’t do that. It breaks his limits but doesn’t inherently give him more potential. It’s also probably better this way, it gives ultimate its own identity instead of being a prerequisite for another form.
Well what worse is that mystic was given to gohan by a God. The Supreme kais are God's. So I guess that's gonna be an explanation for final gohan now. But why couldn't beerus or whis just do the same for goku and vegeta instead of the endless training.....
@@ja9145 mystic wasn't "given" but "pulled out".
@@ja9145 Hate to break it to ya, but Final Gohan didnt go that route at all, its treated as just another ssj form
DBS fanboys watching this:🤡🙄🤬
Me who watch DB and enjoyed it: 🗿👌
This is the same shit I’ve been telling my friends for years while super was ongoing, but no I was apparently just being too hard on the series.... Im so glad this video was made 😭
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@IN REGENERATIONE Black Goku arc was so bad, I honestly don't know how people even found it enjoyable.
@@leultrainstinct406 Your words don't surprise me considering how you dedicated your UN to an anime technique lol
It’s there liking doesn’t make them wrong doesn’t make you right they can enjoy the show let them
@IN REGENERATIONE god you people are the reason people have a bad look on anime cause the fans are toxic
What happened to GT is almost what happened with Star Wars Prequels (my favorite star wars era) people constantly jumped into the prequel hating bandwagon because they hated anything outside the original trilogy and older fans loved to insult the prequels left and right. But when the sequels came out the prequels has finaly recived the respect they deserved even though it is quite insulting to compare them to the crap that was the sequels in order to say thet they are good.
SO TRUE!!!
I mean, the prequels are bad in a vacuum and in comparison to the rest of the series
@@G-LukeJA The prequels were amazing I personally prefer them over the originals. The prequels had the best lightsaber battles, the best themes, ther best space battles, amazing world building, the coolest side characters and some of the most impresive desiogn on the ships. People love to jump in the band wagon but I have never heard a decent reson to dislike the prequels besides Jar Jar, some dialog and CGI witch I don't know why people have a problem with that because CGI makes the movies look amazing. The prequels were original they had one of the most interesting eras is galactic history and the clone wars conflic was ten times bettre than the galactic civil war especialy with the colone tropers and their jedi generals. I also prefear the jedi of the prequel era over the jedi that came after them. They were wiser more noble and had superior skills over all. The prequels some problems that people like to over exaggerate about but they were very good movies. Some idiots just jump in the bandwagon because other idiots said so just because it is a popular and stupid opinion that some of the older fans spread back then.
@Ish Moore Yes they are.
@Ish Moore lol the prequels are still better than the garbage of the sequel trilogy.
As always I'm late to the party, but I respect the hell out of you for making a video this long.
I feel the same as you about this, Super really does come off as a very soulless continuation of Z. The lack of character development, cheap power ups, transformation color swaps, it really did feel like watching an Anime/Manga solely designed to sell toys.
Cheap power up = mystic gohan
@@zamasu8422 Not even that much of a power up honestly, it was basically ssj3 without stamina issues, and wasn't pulled out of nowhere at least, since it was elder kai to give Gohan that power, we have an explanation for it.
@@emanueleesposti9806 yes yes, but gohans potential was unlocked 2 T i m e s
@@zamasu8422 True, even though the first one was kinda useless
@@emanueleesposti9806 true
Goku Black should have been Goku from a very distant future who had lived too long and fought too many battles. That in those many battles there were many losses along the way and over time Goku became cold and was driven mad. Rose should have been a representation of Goku Black accessing the power of Despair. It could have been explained in an episode that as he lost friends along the way he lost access to his other forms because of the toll that had been taken on him emotionally. When the last of those he loved died at the hands of an enemy he could not defeat Goku pretty much fell off the cliff of Despair (metaphorically) and Rose unleashed itself. With the power of Rose he destroyed his foe and realized that this was the power he needed all along. But in his present, there are no Dragon Balls anymore, he can't bring anyone back and he can't fix the world. So his plan was to harden his heart go back in time and force his past self to access this power sooner. With it he could defeat his future foe but execute things in such a way that the Dragon Balls would still be in play. When he used the time ring for the first time it sent him to Future Trunk's time. He began to unleash havoc before realizing he wasn't where he meant to go but by that point his soul was already blackened too much to stop himself. Things could play out, normal Goku learns something about himself and now he and the team after having defeated Goku Black realize there is a new threat coming. This would make the arc sorta "rhyme" with the Future Trunks Android Saga.
Sorry if that fanfic isn't great I literally pulled it out my butt as I was typing. But I feel like it was better than what we got.
Don't be sorry. This is actually a lot better. I hate that zamasu guy. He wasn't even great. Goku black was the one who made the show.
DBS is the one series where I'd wholeheartedly recommend skipping the story and just watching the fillers. At least it was fun to see the DB cast in some wacky scenarios like the Arale or baseball episodes
@The Prime Star helll nah naruto is way worse
@@leultrainstinct406 Nope, watch all of GT, because it's genuinely good.
Agree. The slice of life episodes were the only ones I liked
pain fight was trrash becoz wen nagato destroyed the village he showed that strong villain energy but fighting naruto he was like let me remain like a scare crow like all naruto villains y didnt he used almighty push on naruto in the first place n than later died from a predictable small rasengan which was meters away 💀. lee vs gaara was a bs fight it was just about running fast aside of that lee lost the fight becoz of sand💀 even after being wayyyyyy faster than gaara than there naruto comes and defeats a stronger version of gaara without training his whole life this arc was definition of garrbage. Y didnt obito used his kamui against kakashi wasnt he fighting all the shinobi hours ago🤦♂️.naruto vs sasuke is the most shiitiest fight ever the whole fights didnt made sense base naruto was able to fight sasuke with sharingan n rennigan
All the naruto fights ar nonsensical inlogical
@Tien Most Powerful Human On Earth you should read the manga version of the future trunks arc, really solid and much better than the anime
love how Goku put the whole of existence at risk for an opportunity to fight strong opponents. When did he turn into a sociopath ani-hero? I want to see that episode
Hes always been like that. In japanese goku was always selfish. Its the English version that made him superman to please western audiences. Gokus main goal is to fight the best and get better. He comes off as selfish. Its alway he always leaves his kids and wife. Goku hasnt changed the English dub just made no sense
Zen-oh would have erased them all anyways. Goku saved them
@@randomguyontheinternet8345 the japanese are wrong.
@@ArtoriasStormcock God bless America
@@iamthewizardwhoknocks2845 god bless asian media
"Imagine if a WWE wrestler makes his WWE debut and loses, nobody cares from there"
*John Cena has entered the chat*
Karrion Kross has entered the chat
Loll
Toriyama just needs to stop being lazy and stop with the napkin note writing. If he doesn’t want to do full writing he should just stop and leave the series.
Bruh....this is one of the best videos I have bet seen. Literally rivals some documentaries I have seen. Thank you so much for this video
Anytime Scholar! Thank you so much!
What I find absolutely crazy about Cabba is that Vegeta confirmed he's equal to Vegeta in base form that's a disgrace
Like how ??? Really when he couldn't even turn SSJ
How? Cabba was picked to represent Universe 6 in a multi-universal contest. It would make sense why he would be incredibly strong.
@@MaxMobile22 even so how you gonna compete with super Saiyans tho.
So those years of "PEACE" are truly peaceful am I right
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Something about super that i dont hear anyone mention is THEY TURNED MAI INTO A NEW CHARACTER, its a 30,40, maybe even 50 year old in a 9 year old body trying to marry a 12 year old kid and in the future trunks saga she is a whole new character
I remember watching this entire show, beginning to end, and I was waiting just like you for the one episode that would be exciting, that solidify me as a fan of Dragon Ball since I never considered myself a fan even though I've watched most of DBZ but missed out on the Buu saga. By the end of super I felt like I wasted my time. I was demotivated, drained. And yes I was also disappointed to see Gohan. Because I missed the Buu saga the last time I saw Gohan was the cell games and I kept questioning, "Where's the boy in purple who turned Super Saiyan to destroy Cell & potentially become the series protagonist & main hero?"
I'm not a decade long dragon ball fan(because I'm a teenager rn) but I grew up with dragon ball. The first version of dragon ball I ever watched was Dbgt, when I was 8. I liked it, and I later on found out about the og Dragonball and dbz. I watched all of them before I became 10. I loved the series so much, that I began to read the magazines, to find out more official stuff about the franchise. I was hyped for battle of gods, and it really delivered. Resurrection f was honestly disappointing, and everything in that movie felt flat to me. When dragon ball super came around, I was extremely excited(I already started power scaling by then) and I started the series with everyone. But it had the same problems with resurrection f, it was flat, emotionless, flashy and had crappy power scaling. Ssj is a 50x multiplier, which would mean ssj blue would have to be 50 or more times stronger than ssj god and that was just adding on too much, too fast. The two things I actually loved in super, were the broly movie, and ultra instinct (even the execution was a bit poor for that concept). As you said, after super ended, I started to appreciate Dbgt a lot more and the end result was that I respected it more than dbs. I'm currently reading the Moro arc(I'm up to date btw) but it still feels emotionless tbh. I really don't know if the franchise can come back from such a big fall.
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Lets be real here. Ultra instict was just as lame as the ss god transformations.
The minute you said "For the dragon ball fan who stays up at night playing budokai tenkaichi 3" I knew i had to stay for the two hours! And i will fellow scholar or at least by parts!! #PREPARETODIE #WHATTHEHELLHAPPENED?!
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I stated the same thing just a second ago. Bruh knew that line hit hard 07’ was that year. Only the BT2 ost Dark Half can explain this era we are entering. I still have all 3 copies of the tenkaichi series on ps2
I love GT. GT is the reason I got into Dragon Ball and I liked how it tried to be like OG and early Z and less of later Z that many make fun of like less fighting and more beams and jokes about how the next super sayian is just SSJ3 but even longer hair (it's why I like SSJ4 because it's different and called back it's original and isn't just SSJ3 with longer hair or SSJ1 but different color.)
My favorite DB games are the ones that include GT stuff.
To this day I still want a GT DLC for Dragon Ball Kakarot like how they made DLC for Super stories.
Also blame DBA for these character assassinations