A lot of fat girls are miserable, denying themselves the opportunity for a better life because people like you keep telling them they're fine the way they are, that to me it's even more toxic Imagine telling a drug addict "you're fine the way you are, nevermind the haters", I used to be fat and sad, now I'm fit and glee. Social constructs don't matter to reality
I think Phoebe's ethical stance is actually a fairly nuanced take on how in real life you sometimes you end up compromising your values. It's difficult to live ethically in rampantly consumerist society, and people who try to live ethically aren't immune to the cultural 'buy more' messages that everyone else gets.
Why are you people so terrible at doing these videos you either haven't watched what you're talking about or you deliberately choose to ignore context or give your own agenda driven biased viewpoints 🤦🏽
To be fair, the show actually showed Chandler's father as a good person. He used to attend his son's school functions unlike his wife who used to ditch her son for no particular reason. It's Chandler's own insecurity that he can't accept his father as he is in spite of having feminine interests himself.
Precisely, "Friends Rent Control." I love how "The Good Place" even good naturedly poked fun at the notion of a mere chef and a waitress living in an apartment that gorgeous on their salaries, though it's possibly handwaved in the sense that Monica is illegally subletting her grandmother's apartment.
Friends Rent Control! Yes, I love that trope. They played it straight and averted it in Castle, too. Castle is a successful author, so it makes sense that he can afford his place, but there’s no way in hell Beckett should have such a spacious apartment on a detective’s salary.
I think I remember that Monica inherited the apartment from her grandmother or something which is why she doesn't pay rent. I think they had an episode where she tries to cover it up in order to keep the apartment.
@@harish123az which in all honesty is sort of part of the fun of that kind of dynamic and the only way to really get through someone like Ross. It could get annoying but for the most part it was genuinely hilarious and I liked that it never created a rift between them. They were two very different characters but still good friends
One of my favorite things is Phoebe and Joeys platonic love for each other, I'm glad they weren't paired up like the others. It was just pure platonic love.
Even more impressive is that both of them acknowledged that they could get the other easily if they wanted. It was literally an option not to get together
Yeah I don't think she's "toxic" at all, her occassionally being selfish and hypocritical while doing good deeds is just humanising and normal. Imagine a sitcom character who just always did great selfless things? Bleh.
@@mankytoes honestly, giving into temptations, especially when hers really weren’t that bad and were pretty much things most people did on a day to day basis, is really just human nature
Something else that I noticed on friends is that, as much as there was little diversity, it was treated very normal. Nobody defined or pointed out Julie and Charlie because of the color of their skin nor treated them differently because of it, it was just about their personality. Nobody had a problem with Carol being gay, Ross just didn't like that she cheated on him. The only people that had a problem with Chandler's father being trans were Chandler and his mother, and that was because of the family situation and not because of her sex. Nobody questioned how a woman could be on top of her field (Julie and Charlie), it was just assumed that it was because they deserved it. Say what you want, I still think Friends depicted equality much better than many other shows
Yes, and, first of all, people tend to forget that it was a 1990s and early 2000s show! It started literally more than 25 years ago! For its time, it was so avant-guarde!
thiss!! also people tend to forget that the show was made more than two decades ago and still got a lot of things right! Some people only want to complain these days.
@@mynameisthis1580 I honestly have trouble differenciating between trans and drag queen, but still that doesn't change how she was treated very normally. It is true though that neither of them was very good parent, and that is exaclty what chandler had problems with
Thats because normal thinking people dont think like that. Only racists and people who are racist against themselves (victimizing themselves) think like that. The whole asking for diversity is racist and homophobic, because you literally focus on the color of the skin and sexuality of the characters, which in an ideal world should not matter. If the cast is all white, fine. If the cast is all black, fine. It really does not fucking matter. The only people who really get pushed away by society are disabled people and literally nobody mentions them when talking about diversity. Its always race, sexuality and gender… yeah yeah yeah, we know the story by now.
@@jennerick92jm fat is only bad once it borderlines on obesity or start causing health problems. otherwise, what really is the issue? it's the horrible stigma, the stereotypes that fat people have to endure. some can't escape the "fat kid" label even well into their adulthood and have to unlearn their insecurities (Schmidt on New Girl is one example, strikingly similar to Monica.) Please, for the love of god, stop with the fatphobia.
@@jennerick92jm okay, fatphobe, fat is bad argument is just stupid because while fat is bad we all have fat, you might have fats clogging Your arteries while your skinny, but no one judges you for that now do they? also the comment was discussing how a whole person with emotions, interests, a soul was reduced into just a fat person, like they're nothing but just fat which doesn't make sense and highly judgemental and toxic to value a person only based on their weight, which renders your comment basic and irrelevant.
13:20 I never saw Fat Monica as a cartoon. What I took away, was that Monica has a SEVERE case of untreated anxiety issues. Initially, that results in compulsive eating, forcing the brain into its state of relaxation that it enters when we feed. However, this changes when Monica forces herself to get thin. Her anxiety can no longer be sated by compulsive eating, and, instead, manifests itself as an obsessive desire to control, mainly through cleaning and keeping a perfectly tidy home to look at. Of course, we learn that this truly is a need to appear as tidy, as she has her locked off junk closet. This isn’t to say that Fat Monica isn’t dated, which it is, and I might be giving the writers credit for something that they didn’t plan, but I always saw Monica as more complex than that.
I agree! Plus her parents treating her the way they did, ( putting her down in subtle ways, clearly favouring Ross), would have made her over eating and then obsessiveness products of that rather than just fat phobia.
completely agreed, no clue if the writers intended for this but they did often portray her as eating whenever she was treated poorly - almost always by her parents mainly her mum tho - and showed it as a way of her dealing with it and then she developed her need for things to be clean which she never displayed whilst fat, so i hope the writers at least had a vague idea of this when writing the show
Well said! People are meant to be a variety of sizes, but those variances also exist for a variety of reasons. Monica's reasons were indicative of her character's arc.
The one thing I never see anyone talk about is how glorified Monica and Richard’s relationship is despite it being really inappropriate. Its not the age thing, if they were strangers it’d be fine. Its the fact Richard is Monica’s dad’s best friend who’s known her pretty much her entire life. Hell, his daughter was friends with Monica back in school. He may have been kind and loving but that man likely held her as a baby, and i honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it was revealed he’s her godfather given how close the two families are.
Exactly! Why does no one ever talk about this?! I absolutely hated their relationship and what's worse is that The Take's video on Richard just frames him as "the lover who got away"🤢
I think your ignoring the nuance of both the show and real life. It was viewed as inappropriate by several of the characters at first, but time showed the relationship was legitimate and not based on an imbalance of power. Monica never came across as someone being taken advantage of, and in real life these things can work out under the right circumstances. It's not a simple black and white issue.
Agreed, it’s wrong and creepy. I also agree with you that it’s not the age difference that’s creepy, it’s the fact that he has known her since she was a kid. I get that they wanted to include Tom Selleck, because he’s such a huge star, but I think it would have been better if they had him date Phoebe, because Richard didn’t know her when she was a kid. Or, if they really wanted Richard with Monica, they should have had him be a friend of Joey’s dad or Phoebe’s uncle or something like that.
Please do Big Bang and all the toxicities they normalize just because the characters are labelled as victims/incapable of understanding manners, emotions and nuances
@@sarahtobore2832 They are! Even basic logic and people constantly telling them that what they're doing is wrong doesn't work! It doesn't take an idiot to figure out basic social respect, much less a genius.
kind of surprised they didn't talk about rachel's issues, they did for everyone else, she has on multiple times tried to steal ross or joey away from their grilfriends, and in nearly every instance of this happening they don't even get together, they might end up fighting or just agreeing that they weren't meant for each other, "thanks rach' for trying to end my relationship with a perfectly great women just because you didn't want me to be with some one else when it didn't suit you, what a great friend you are" she rarely even feels guilty for it, someone might chide her for it but she doesn't learn her lessons, rachel is still funny as hell but this is a part of her that i really find annoying
I think that the reason why"Friends" is still a popular show, is because is like a human being, relatable and not relatable, perfect and flawed, just like everyone else. It has really good things and very bad things and we can learn from all of that.
@@id2091 Every friend groupe has thi kind of joke i think, but when it is a series that is universally known and represents a generation, it's not only a joke it becomes a message In my opinion
I think fat jokes are fine as long as that's all they are, jokes. When you start to genuinely attack and harass people for any reason then it becomes a problem. Some of the funnier jokes they made are fat jokes but other ones are boring and predictable
That bit about Ross having "Main Character Syndrome".. 100%! But Rachel also had the same issue. When she got mad at someone, everyone else had to be mad at them too (and yes, this includes when she was mad at Ross), and when she had problems, everyone had to stop and cater to her as well. I think that's what made Ross and Rachel so particularly toxic together - because they were two sides of the same unhealthym self-absorbed coin.
I don't know why it annoys me, but people seem to keep forgetting that Pheobe originally wanted a simple wedding. It was Monica who initially went all out against Pheobe's wishes.
Yes, thank you! Monica was awful during Phoebe's wedding episode. AWFUL. And it really bothered me that the episode never acknowledges how abominable she's been with consequences, or has her apologise. Phoebe actually apologises to her! It's particularly galling considering a large part of Monica's personality was based around how the wedding day is your day and the essentiality of it being perfect. She made it all about her and her tastes, even after she'd had her own wedding day. It was only by chance (the blizzard) that it ended up being the day Phoebe wanted.
@@jaycievictory8461 Well, the episode kind of acknowledged it by having Phoebe fire her in one of the most satisfying public rants ever and having all of the other friends seem content with it. Even Chandler didn’t bother comforting Monica when it happened haha. She was already such an undeniably unlikable character by that point, I don’t think she needed more comeuppance. Monica always gets too ambitious and ends up losing, it’s how her character is designed.
@@hollywoodshopaholic Except Phoebe takes back firing her, apologises to Monica and says she wants Monica back as her planner more than she wants to get married 😬 Personally, I like Monica as a character, despite her faults, but that episode really didn't do it for me. It needed Monica to acknowledge she'd been really out of line.
Well...for Ross , it's very simple , he didn't need a relationship , he didn't need any women , he didn't need a girlfriend , he didn't need Rachel ( definitaly not ) , Ross only needed a therapy
I agree. From his childhood he was always treated special where Monica was emotionally neglected. This made him feel entitled so he felt his pov was the only pov and everything should be about him. He did have his moments like gifting Phoebe bike or staying with Rachel despite having a big interview but he really was disturbed. As for grammar, sure it makes huge difference in few cases but majority times if people understand what you are saying its okay. Many of us do not have english as a first language.
You guys should do a video on the trope of always turning the socially conscious friend into a laughing stock. The main examples being Brita from community and Leela from futurama.
Or that caring about animal rights like Phoebe does is for weird irrational funny hippies. It's fucked up because it sends the message that supporting animal abuse is rational and normal.
To be fair, Britta only fits the trope in the first episodes. After that, they mostly make fun at how her being "socially conscious" is only on the surface, as she doesn't really do anything useful about it.
You lost me at the criticism of Ross telling Phoebe, the cat isn't her mother... Sometimes there IS an objective truth. There's nothing wrong with being rational and knowledgeable. No one likes to be corrected, but there is nothing wrong with correcting your friends even though it can be annoying.
@@sorkaem at the end of the day it depends on the friend and the level of delusion if the delusion was really bad the constant forcing her to see the truth can form a mental breakdown
Yeah but the way he yelled it at her proved that he wasn’t doing that for her or for the little girl but for him. To prove once again that he was right. But sometimes being right is not the most important thing and he fails to understand that. Phoebe might have act a little selfish but she was going through something very hard that Ross can’t begin to understand.
yesss we love a nuanced taaaake. I wish you'd go more into the male nanny episode. It's brought up so often as an example of Friends aging badly but I think it's a perfect commentary on fragile masculinity?? It just shows Ross as petty and insecure and celebrates Sandy for being so comfortable with challenging gender norms. All still super relevant
And tbh, a lot of those attitudes haven't gone away. They tend not to be shown on tv as much, but if anything they have hardened over time. Men doing childcare as a job is still seen as suspect, with the implicit assumption of homosexuality, paedophilia etc. If anything, they used humor to take those assumptions on and challenge them, and gave them to key members of the cast rather than just a one-off guest star, because in real life the people who do make those types of assumptions are everywhere, they are people you care about, not just people you can dismiss as 'randoms'. Of course, the flipside of this is that the studio audience will laugh when it wants to, for the reasons it wants to, and that seems to be mostly about the transgression of the normal 'Joey is carrying a handbag!' 'The nanny is a man!' which surprises them into laughter, while the discomfort of the characters is found funny rather than embarrassing.
@@kahkah1986 yess I agree. I think the Joey's bag episode is similarly misunderstood. In fact, Joey is the least fragile man here and doesn't carry shame about the bag until people tease him about it. Rachel encourages Joey to wear the bag but in the end sadly admits that maybe 'the world is not ready for him and the bag' which is also the problem that is being pointed out- Joey having the bag is not the joke, his closed-minded surroundings are, but I agree the audience laughter is misleading in that sense and I think at the time the 'man with handbag' thing might have been so novel that that is what brought on laughter, which makes the lesson of these episodes even more important I think, especially for the time they were made. I think we've come a long way in some respects maybe in terms of gendering clothing etc. but fragile/toxic masculinity is still suuch a widespread complex problem that I think these and other episodes are great at breaking down
Yeah, it's a good portrayal in the end. It seems people don't like the nuance of Ross' character, but he's like a real person- he is often selfish, has massive insecurities, partly caused by past trauma (his wife cheating on him and leaving him is always portrayed as something he should just get over because she realised she was gay) and some backwards views, but that doesn't mean he can't also be a kind person. I'm sure plenty of people on here have older family members who come out with some horrific stuff at time, but are also extremely loving and caring people most of the time.
Just because an episode is making jokes in an episode of important subject matter, doesn’t mean it a, can’t be made fun of, and b, doesn’t mean it’s endorsing those stereotypes. If anything the episode made fun of how Ross couldn’t handle it, not the nanny
I honestly like how the characters are flawed and not all that woke cause I feel like it was more played as a learning experience for them and hopefully for the viewers as well.
So true. That's the highlight of the show. We're humans & we all come with our own toxic traits. To watch it on a show helps us identify that and possibly understand why it's wrong. The struggles each character face will also be because of their toxic traits.
They were realistic, simple as that. Nowadays the reason sitcoms are absolute dog shit is purely due to the fact everything and every character has to fit within the lines of LQBT, Woke, Politically correct, BLM, Acab, Feminist, Kam, antifa’s agenda
I have to disagree with the comment about grammar rules. Grammar is what holds every language together and makes it possible to learn and communicate in any language. There are also different rules in every language when you think about it. English is the official language of several countries around the world, but there are differences to the grammar depending on the version you learn. There are also different version of the same language within the same country. Even in poor communities, there are grammar rules and orders, even if the speakers are not aware of them. Ross is a well-off intellectual, sure enough, but his obsession with grammar is not based on racism or classism, but on the kind of person he is, which makes it a neat characteristic that says a lot about him as a person. I am also fond of grammar, as one would be able to infer, because I am a writer and those rules make it easier to communicate a point. It is also interesting to study the development of languages over time and use - though I understand that I am privileged having grown up in a country where education is free (actually we get paid to study through taxes), so I got to attend the university and live out my nerd-dream.
It is interesting to study other languages! They did not support their point well. As you pointed out, grammar is merely the rules of any language and dialect. It is not racist any more than the way I walk is racist. They mean holding one dialect as supreme while others are "wrong" is classist and (since they always go hand in hand) racist. Clarity is important in writing, as you pointed out, so the standard dialect is always used in news and books and stuff. That's fine, because it's the most recognizable dialect, you want everyone to understand. But you can't say that's the only "correct" way to write or speak. In the US, AAVE gets so much crap for being "bad english" when it's just another dialect with its own grammar. I shouldn't correct anyone speaking it, thereby insisting my dialect is better. That would be racist. The who/whom and your/you're distinctions are not a good example, because they are all still speaking Standard American English. But Ross clearly places pride in using the "correct" grammar. And like everything else in his life, if it's not his way, it's objectively bad. So I don't think it's a stretch to say he looks down on people with other dialects, which is racist.
Some things I disagree with: 1) Ross is shown to have suffered as a child by toxic masculinity which has made him an unhappy adult. His dad would mock him for playing with dolls and for wearing dresses, and so he grew up with these beliefs only to have them shattered once he accepted Sandy ("manny"). This is character development. So I don't think that should have been a toxic takeaway since he did learn from his mistake, and if anything, he is a cautionary tale of what toxic masculinity and outdated upbringings can do to a person. 2) "With the casual implication that the world was right to see her as undeserving of love until she lost weight". Monica is not shown to be unlovable or unworthy of love because of her weight. She was friends with Rachel since they were little and she and Chandler get together even in the world where she never loses weight. Also, when Monica voices concern of gaining weight in the future, Chandler claims he will still love her even if she'll grow big or small. The show makes a point of not being superficial in my opinion, because as the audience, we know that Monica is a great friend and person, and it hurts to see her lose confidence in herself because of her weight. And even after she lost weight, she still didn't resolve all the issues she had, so losing weight wasn't the solution to everything, which is why I interpreted that takeaway differently. 3) About the lack of diversity.... It would have been really cool and interesting to see a diverse group of people. It could have contributed to the show by showing more races, religions (since they didn't really focus on Judaism) or cultures, but I think the show wouldn't be the same really. The whole show is about 6 people complain about what some call "white rich people problems" and adding POC might have taken the show into subjects that they didn't know how to address or didn't want to out of fear of what's PC and what's not (like this video now). I think they should have had a more diverse group of friends, it would have only added to the show, but I understand why they perhaps didn't (since it was also the 90's, not 2020's), but I still like Friends. And, all the more reasons to make more shows of a group of friends in a city, this time with diversity. 4) Also, Phoebe not understanding what being a good person is? Really? Phoebe?! She just shows how hard it is to keep true to your values when faced with temptations. I feel like this takeaway was pointless. Why shouldn't helping people make you feel good? And if she sometimes slips up and goes back on her values, it doesn't make her selfish or a bad person, just human.
I actually don't mind that Friends didn't have diversity (I say this is a nonwhite person), because diverse characters don't work without diverse writers. If they did include diverse characters, it would have been a disaster because they would have certainly reduced the nonwhite characters to one-dimensional stereotypes. That's essentially what happened with "New Girl". New Girls had a lot of good moments, but every marginalized character was reduced to jokes about their race or sexuality.
@@360shadowmoon yeah, that's what I think. I think they were right to avoid writing POC characters if they didn't know how to approach it, but I also think that if they would have added more diverse writters, it could have added to the show, but you also can't hit all the check boxes, and Friends is still fantastic.
@@360shadowmoon I'm not saying its right but the sitcom formula is pretty much stereotypes and one dimensional caricatures Its kind of almost pointless to complain about just watch a sitcom that doesn't adhere to the traditional
Many of you are saying how Ross was full of toxic masculinity or homophobia, when in reality we've seen that he had many insecurities about his feminity because of his father. As for Carol-Susan his dislike is reasonable , since carol cheated on him and then they proceeded to put down his role as Ben's father. They were being mean and I believe that's mostly what infuriated him( there was homophobia ofc because we are talking about the 90s , but not just from Ross and that was definitely not the main reason he disliked them) This isn't really about the video, but mostly for the comments. Great analysis as always!
Yes, I think the Carol storyline would realistically be emotionally challenging, anger is a legitimate emotion in that case. If anything I feel current sitcoms just avoid those types of situations or are unrealistically positive about how others react.
Remember the one with the sonogram at the end? Where they try and decide bens last name? Ross should have been in there, not Susan. If he's in bens life, he deserves to be in the surname along with Carol. They're the biological parents. Susan's helping raise him ALONG with them. That was ridiculous
Well I think both points could be valid. He is full of toxic masculinity and homophobia BECAUSE of his father and Carol cheating on him and degrading his role as the father. And also it was the 90s so..
The episode where Ross is jealous of Susan and Emily hanging out was something I always thought was more related to his trauma from how his relationship with carol ended. I am not defending him, he is the only character I dislike ,(if it wasn’t for David schwimmer’s excellent performance I would hate the character) but as someone who has had problems with friends in the past, I still have trouble trusting any new possible friend. As I said previously, I am not defending Ross, but when someone exits your life in an extremely traumatic way you won’t get over it in a year. If you look at him this way, a lot of the way he acts in the early seasons make a lot more sense.
That's what I'm trying to explain to my friends!! But honestly I also think they write this situation with Carol being a lesbian specifically for the "easy homophobic jokes" ... That's a shame cause we would understand the pain of Ross in a better way if it wasn't amplified with homophobia.
@@erimee3014 thank you. For example the same was happening with Chandler moms, the mom was angry at the other one and sometimes she was outta pocket given the identity crisis that her ex must have been going thru that could have been hard but it was understandable with the lies and cheating she suffered at the hands of that which can cause a lot of trauma. And is so funny to me cause the girls who criticized Ross about him being weary about Rachel working with what's his name are in the next breath saying they delete their bfs girl followers on social media cause they don't trust girls and they had trauma. Then where is the sympathy for Ross
@@libragoddess98287 Yeah I don't think Ross was entirely out of line (though sending tons of gifts and bringing a picnic to the office was inappropriate). Mark did want to sleep with Rachel and Rachel practically gaslighted Ross by repeatedly refusing to acknowledge that. It would make me suspicious too. Also, Ross wasn't constantly jealous, Mark just happened to be someone who got under his skin. Girls get jealous and controlling all the time but people play that off as funny instead of shameful.
@@hollywoodshopaholic THANK YOU SO MUCH for understanding, everytime i saw ross and his struggles in relationship i would know why but most people were like no we don't care and i would feel like i overanalyzed.
Yes, I agree. I always disliked the way everyone shrugged off the fact that Carol cheated on him with Susan and it was just kind of expected that Ross would be forgiving and understanding because she’s a lesbian. It doesn’t matter who someone leaves you for, it is not an excuse for cheating! Ross definitely needed therapy to get over his trust issues, and he was toxic at times but I did sympathize with him more than his so called friends did about that. And Ross and Rachel were both toxic together and equally as bad.
There was a scene were chandler tells joey that his tailor sexualy assaulted him. joey then realised that he was also assaulted by this tailor. One of the most problematic scenes in the whole series and the audience was laughing so much.
Thank you for talking about this! Growing up, I was definitely getting whiplash from seeing constant double standards in the show. I'd learn things like "women can do anything a man can do" only to see "a man can't be a nanny" in another episode. The same with "it's okay for two women to get married and raise a kid together" only to get "two guys can't hug too often because it'll seem gay". Edit: Perhaps I used the wrong example because I perfectly understood that the "manny" thing was to highlight Ross's own toxic and fragile masculinity. Maybe I should've mentioned every "Chandler is gay" joke instead.
Ditto, I absolutely concur! While this show still holds up splendidly in a lot of respects, it's still awkward to watch Ross ridicule Sandy for having a traditionally female job, or for all of the gay jokes at Chandler's expense, even when he was simply talking about a musical he enjoyed.
When I hear people under 30 react so negatively to the term “friend zone” in old sitcoms and movies, I think they don’t realize the meaning has changed. In the early 90’s, my early 20’s “she friend-zoned me” or “I’m stuck in the friend zone” was just an expression of relatable frustration. It meant your crush wanted friendship not romance. Ther was no anger, no demand, no entitlement. I had a huge crush on a close college friend and tried hard to persuade to her give “us” a try, but she wasn’t into it, and eventually I started dating someone else. Male and female friends knew exactly what I meant when I described it as the Friend Zone, and they said it too. In the past few years, holy hell, the term suddenly took on this whole other ugly connotation, of the anger and resentment at being cheated out of sex she owed him. Yikes! I wish people watching old shows understand that the phrase meant something different back then.
I’m a 29 year old woman and I’ve been friendzoned in the way you explain (i.e., unrequited love). It always drives me up a wall when other women assume it never happens to women. Like congrats I guess y’all are hotter than me and have never experienced rejection?
me too. I asked a guy out and we went out a few times and then I asked him if we could take it further and he said he just wanted to be friends and he became one of the best friends I ever had. I enjoyed his company more than I wanted to be in an intimate relationship.
Do you not think there's anything slightly just a wee bit creepy about "trying hard to pursuade her"? It's the persuade bit. I've been there on both sides of the friendzone and I just cringe at my awful misguided attempts to "pursuade". I learnt you can't make someone like you, no matter how pursuasive you try to be (or how much you like them). Do you see what I mean or are you mega offended? I didn't intend to be cruel but I understand it may have come off like that.
Yup. And the way I learned it was that you had to make your interest to women clear upfront. Otherwise you'd miss you're window and enter the 'zone' where could only see you as a friend. This helped me grow a spine and actually talk to ladies I liked.
@@Misstressofdons Ugh. No, not “mega offended” but rolling my eyes a bit, but I don’t mean that to insult you either. If someone’s particular efforts to persuade were creepy, then yep that’s creepy, but that doesn’t mean all persuasion is creepy, nor that we should give up if we don’t succeed immediately. Lots of people I know are dating or married to people they had to pursue or persuade or woo for a while. That’s life. It’s true that you can’t make someone like you, but you can persuade someone to try something new that they might like, you can get people comfortable doing something they wanted but felt inhibited about, and you can convince them that you’re serious and not another player. All of those take time and effort, and there’s nothing wrong with effort. Some people even like knowing they were worth effort. It comes down to if your persuasion efforts are positive, flattering, and inviting or demanding, entitled, and oblivious to signs of real discomfort.
@@lilchiliflake Yeah well we need ways to indicate possessive vs. contraction. How do you propose we do it? Things need to be standardized or else we get chaos.
@@KittySnicker I love the use of the word chaos which I as a second language learner used to think it's pronounced differently as ch for chair because there's no standard for this one but yeah I agree lol
Exactly, it's really scary how some people are replacing the truth with alternative truths, while others are simply trying to convince us that the truth doesn't exist... It starts with grammar, and then it goes to maths. Instead of pushing everyone towards knowledge, we're pushing everyone towards a world where ignorance and knowledge are a question of perspective...
Surprised you put "guy nanny" scene right into the rigid gender roles section. I actually liked this segment, it's exactly when Ross gets called out for his fragile masculinity and gender stereotypes. I agree with your messge overall, but this scene wasn't a "toxic takeaway", it was a nice bit of self-reflection!
Men get called out for fragile masculinity. Men get called out for toxic masculinity. Fat Monica gets pity, and the blame is put on the parents. When will you toxic feminists ever see your own crap?
As a gay man, Friends was the most gay friendly and life saving show to me when i was a teenager, all the gay jokes were intimate like inside jokes between gay besties, laughters from an accepting openness yet delivered in self-deprecating manner, years later I finally knew why : Friends’ co-creator/chief writer David Crane is gay ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 That self-deprecating manner of writing would definitely be misunderstood as homophobic if without the knowledge of the writers being homosexual/gay friendly, those writers were actually woker than most of today’s petty woke gang tbh.
Just bc he's gay doesn't make it okay; I'm glad you found comfort in it, but internalized homophobia is a thing and self-deprecation is not okay. It still is homophobic
@@charlotterouge8107 Yea the goal-posts have been moved since the show came out. It's still very well written and funny. If you want to depose Friends, write something better.
@@vipertact Yeah, our standards are now higher than the floor. That means we can look back on Friends and go "this was gross, let's not pretend it's funny anymore"
@@charlotterouge8107 So why is it still funny? The comedic timing is perfect on so many scenes. You aren't looking for comedy, you're looking to check your little list of PC do's and don'ts.
@@vipertact I should've clarified- I mean we can look back on those scenes that joke about LGBT stuff and say "that was gross". I'm not talking about the series as a whole or saying the series as a whole is not funny. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm somehow trying to " depose" Friends- criticizing one aspect of a show isn't the same as trying to tear it down
"don't get married until you're ready" YESSSS. it has nothing to do with your age or salary, and everything to do with you and your partner's maturity and aligning long-term goals.
True - they're just saying that the men with fragile masculinity issues are uncomfortable around the subject. The girls poke fun because they know the jokes will land
most of the time they even get called out for any homophobic behavior. Ross ends up opening up to the "manny" and crying on his shoulder and explaining how toxic masculinity actually hurt him growing up, which is why he is the way he is. While the "Manny" is shown to work in what is considered to be a more "feminine" job, he is not gay and is actually said to be engaged to a woman, which shows men can works in fields like child caring. Chandler is seen looking at men and admiring their looks, hugging Joey all the time and even shared a bed with him. He and Joey also weren't insulted when they were assumed to be a gay couple (just annoyed because it lowered their chances with the women), and had no problem pretending to be a gay couple to get Ben back from the city. Also, while Joey is the most Macho of the guys, he is also the most emotional, most caring, and most physically affectionate (qualities attributed to women) without being mocked as "girly". If anything, these traits are appreciated by all of the friends. Also the fact that all the guys have kissed each other on the lips.
I've always thought, the very best moment in Friends IS that moment, when Joey realises, that he knows, that Monica and Chandler are together. The buildup is extremely well developed and his response is hillarious. Theres also no better meme'able picture.
The beauty of this show is the banter between the characters, they talk like a genuine group of friends. We need to stop pulling it apart and just enjoy it for what it is...a sitcom. If it wasn’t still relevant it would be popular or funny
It's possible to wholeheartedly enjoy something and simultaneously see and accept it's flaws in the context of it's time. I don't think explorations like these detract from the value of Friends.
Thank you. I am so sick of people critizing it for this and that, for being "lily white" for example.. there were actually man non white characters on the show, the main cast just happens to be white.. so what? I don't see anyone criticizing The Fresh Prince of Bel Air for bieng entirely black. I feel like there is another agenda at play from these critics.
My one critique of this video: Grammar is important and people still use "whom." In our increasingly globally-connected world, we SHOULD be able to understand and communicate with one another and we do that by adhering to certain grammar/spelling/language rules.
Joey is the most cartoonishly masculine. Ross is the 'aaackttuaaaly' form of the same thing. Changler gets played for laughs early; but in the end, he's the most functional because he finally stops giving a crap.
I think he's supposed to be the least buff, the "wimpiest," and the least assertive/authoritative. By traditional American standards that's considered unmasculine (which I don't necessarily agree with, but there you go).
The writers purposely made him traditionally "unmasculine" and we're going to make him gay. There's a great video about it from Matt Baume’s Culture Cruise series on RUclips.
Yupp, she most certainly did. Grammar is now racist. What's next? Hygiene is now racist? How about water? Will water be considered racist one day? I'm done !
Agree! But I believe that maybe they were reffering to how different ethnic groups talk? Like the black "ghetto" slang, or how latinxs talk in the USA? In "Friends" the characters only talk in a white-american way, but that's because they ALL ARE WHITE AMERICANS. Thus, it is not really racist. Using correct grammar ISN'T racist but I can see where they are coming from.
I disagree on Phoebe not knowing how to be a good person. She is portrayed as a real person with flaws. She is so good hearted but not perfect, and that's okay. She is a vegetarian but gets weak when she's pregnant and has cravings. Which doesn't make her a bad vegetarian. Just a human being who tries her best.
I agree! Also I never like it when people who at least try are accused of "hipoctrite" when they occasionally act selfish, while others don't ever even gife a F about injustice.
It pisses me off SO MUCH when Ross is played out as the villain in the cat episode. Phoebe was being delusional and kidnapped someone else's pet. All the others were enabling her.
Exactly! If it was just a stray maybe I would've had more sympathy for Phoebe but like you said, it was someone else's pet and I was so pissed off that Phoebe still refused to give the cat back once they found out the owner was looking for it. Sometimes there is an objective truth and I would have been like Ross if one of my friends did something like that
Great vid. Gotta say though, it's impossible for me to see Ross as the bad guy when he's calling out Phoebe's scientifically illiterate nonsense. Like yeah she's just trolling him (I think) when she refuses to believe in evolution, but that cat belonged to someone who loved it and Phoebe just insisted on keeping it anyways because she thought it was her reincarnated mom. I don't think she gets a free pass just because of her own emotional troubles at the time.
Science is what it is because it is accepted by the majority of people in the world right now. It doesn't claim to be the objective 'truth' and definitely accepts scope for discussion. Ross was being less scientific by refusing to acknowledge that science cannot be 'proven' to be the absolute truth.
It ws a matter of opinion tbh Even if phoebe wsnt being “logical” like ross wanted her to be , ross should hv just respected her opinion on the matter and just shldnt hv tried to shove his facts down her throat Thts what i think ...
@@28maybloom never cared about if the cat was really her mom, Ross was stolen from by Phoebe as a kid and it wrecked him. He wasn't letting Phoebe steal a little girls cat.
@@28maybloom I think your slightly confusing Science and Philosophy. Science is based in gathering and analysing evidence. It's true it's about likelihood rather than absolute truth, but that's why it's not about following what's already accepted.
@@28maybloom well you're wrong Scince is purely based on evidence and as it is always open for discussion ( rational evidence based disscussion) because it's not a religion or a dogma, science is claiming to be objectively truthfull.
Joey didn't have a fragile masculinity! He was always willing to do everything that everyone thought a man should not do.. be it wearing women's underwear, being sensitive, dancing with a man or knitting... And yes, some women were ghosted, but when he realised what it was to feel ghosted, he called up "everyone" to tell them he is sorry And most women told him he is not marriage material, so we can give credit to the women sleeping with him, to know him. Apart from this point... Thank you for doing the take on this... 🙏🏼
Yep Joey was pretty secure about his masculinity ! Don’t forget the part about him wearing women’s underwear proving phoebe point that only man comfortable enough with their masculinity could wear it
Why is nuance so lost on people nowadays, everything is taken at face value. Joey was shown growing from being insecure to more secure. When writers write perfect characters the show/movie tanks.
Do mixed messages of Seinfeld. What other show has a woman not prioritize getting married and having children, all while having a robust dating life and being best friends with 3 men, one of which is her ex boyfriend/fiancé ?
But she's also a narcissistic sociopath; just like the others. Even Julia Louie-Dreyfuss has described Elaine as a wretched, soulless monster; who should never be allowed to breed.
It’s so interesting how the perspective of media changes. In 20 years a lot of the content we view as progressive is probably also going to be critiqued for some problematic aspect of it. There’s no such thing as a perfect piece of media.
True, but to me, wording it that way implies that critique is about issuing marks against a work, points deducted, something like that. When the reality is just that for many people thinking and talking about a work, examining and dissecting it, is just part of enjoying media
fixed rules of grammer are racist and classist constructs? whoah, that's a bit too woke for me. ross is obnoxious but the show never stops acknowledging that, and being an obnoxious character isn't necessarily mysogynistic bc chandler and joey can't stand him either
I love this channel but they're getting way too woke too often now, oftentimes to the point of parody. "Correct grammar is racist and sexist" is a laughable position for anyone who's not a hyper-woke U.S. progressive.
cause knowing correct grammar etc is a privilege of going to school etc etc, well at least this was clear to me a decade ago in latin america... it's not racism or sexism more like classist
@@saltycrunch IKR. I don’t know what happened to this channel. It was superb and I would even share videos with my friends on analysis of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and Game of Thrones. Now I would be embarrassed to share the content of this channel. Everything is woke to the point that it looks like a journalist from Huffington Post wrote it. The bias is laughable at how obvious it is. Interesting how the ladies had nothing to say about the toxic characteristics of Rachel.
...no, consistent rules of grammar are not “racist” or “classist.” The whole point is so that we know what someone else means when they write something. I’m not saying you need to be a grammar Nazi or anything, but let’s not act like schools should be teaching kids to “just spell things however you want”
I completely disagree with Phoebe’s toxic take. She is an incredibly kind and selfless character and feels like the only one with depth. Without her I think the show would be really flat and boring. I think a better takeaway for her would be that life challenges don’t have to break your spirit.
Except she is cruel to her friends for no reason, tries to break up chandler and Monica for no reason, keeps bullying Ross despite him dong kind things like buy her a cycle just because he didn't have any. She is as flawed as the others and can be cruel to those except Joey who she had a crush on
With ross. He fell in love with a girl in school and got married and found out she was cheating on him, divorced him and took the home and all his stuff. Ross is damaged and has trust issues. Wouldnt you if you were in his situation And while he does have flaws so what ? Humans have flaws The toxic elements are good as its realistic
Yeah I never got the Ross hate. I like all the Friends. I grew up with them. As was analyzed in a episode the break up with Carol messed him up. In the what if episode and flashback you can see how trusting he was
@@mrbushido56 Since when be a human is not being toxic? Man kind is dirt and low. HE is VERY toxic and everyone in this planet get hurt. Only some become toxic.
@@Vanessinha91Pucca Both Chandler and Joey were more toxic than Ross. It’s just that Ross was considered the boring Friend, and that’s why people are less forgiving of his flaws.
I like that Friends is still popular on new generations. I don't agree with what you said about grammar. There are rules of speaking correctly. I learned English as a second language when I was a child and I was taught the importance of speaking correctly.
As long as people can understand what you mean, it's honestly fine. Prescriptivism is boring. I know that for people who learn English as a foreign language, for example, there's unfortunately another layer to it, where they're more likely to be picked up on 'mistakes'. And that's crappy.
Those rules were chosen very arbitrarily, by people who lived thousands of years ago and just happened to be in the position to set them--and with English in particular, this resulted in an unintuitive Frankenstein's monster of a language. Language is a tool for the living, and the most important thing is that we can understand one another now.
the reason why i liked joey the most was because of that bag episode. everyone was making fun of him for it but he didn't care because really liked the purse. he even learned to dance with mr. treeger!!! i know his character has many flaws but he broke quite a lot of gender norms in the show which i love!!
0:00 Introduction 2:04 Skillshare 2:24 Don't get married until you're ready 5:53 Casual misogyny, rigid gender roles 6:55 Toxic Chandler: A gay joke factory 8:04 Toxic Joey: Women aren't people 9:25 Toxic Ross: Main character syndrome 11:04 The power of friendship (regardless of gender) 12:22 Toxic Monica: Rampant fatphobia 13:27 Date people you actually like 14:34 Not the real New York City 15:58 Class divides us 17:05 Anyone can experience homelessness, even your friend 17:36 Toxic Phoebe: Phoebe doesn't understand what being good person is 18:38 You gotta have friends
please do a video like this on how i met your mother. the show has so many good messages about life and relationships and while it also has a lot of toxic messages, it's so good
Correcting someone on grammer is classist? My word are people sensitive! My sister used to do this to me all the time! You know why she did? Because i got it wrong! Was it a bit annoying? Yes but was it classist? Nope!
I doubt class / race has something to do with it. However , it does diminish a person's confidence if you correct them in front of others. That should be avoided :-)
@@matthewrickard5050 Just like banning black hair styles is "just hair" ... huh? Google "systemic racism", a thousand tiny things are used to discriminate against PoC
Could you guys do a video on Scrubs? The show is similar to Friends in that it's about the personal and professional lives of a group of friends as they make their way through their 20s. But it avoids a lot of criticisms you can level against friends, specifically, the diversity of the main cast. And the format and comedy style was way ahead of its time.
No one can argue that certain aspects of Friends have not aged well, however, in my experience, all those aspects were called out in the show as well... It is self-aware in most cases and for others, one has to take the general social consciousness of the time when it was made...
I found this post on Tumblr and thought it can be applied to this show: *"This representation was groundbreaking for the time and a lot of people liked it” and “This may have aged poorly and many modern audiences from the group don’t feel represented by it and are bothered by aspects of it” are not mutually exclusive*
The show is saying fat monica doesn't deserve love because of her weight. The show pairs Chandler and fat Monica together because he is a loving person and isn't forced into by some stupid sitcom situation. Pick one
When did it ever say that? I thought the whole point of her weight was to show how insecure she was, and she was able to gain the confidence to become fit. If anything, it showed how her parents neglected her in Ross’s favor, and therefore led to her overeating.
Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choices doesn't mean you have a irrashional, extreme fear of them. People need to stop using the phobia word so casually
In the show we see that Ross is ULTRA jealous and toxic for Rachel (which of course its bad.) But in one episode it is revealed that all of this is because he was left with trauma from his marriage to Carol, and that before that he was a very calm guy. Not trying to justify but I did feel bad for him after that episode.
I prefer How I Met Your Mother but this video makes me want to revisit Friends for the progress it has made and how that was huge when it premiered (which was when I was too young to really appreciate the cultural strides). And I DO appreciate you acknowledging that us women can be friend zoned (i.e., experience unrequited love). Having said that, Ross has every right to educate people on the difference between you’re and your. It’s not some kind of racial activism to use contractions incorrectly.
"Correct" grammar absolutely connects with racism tho. Lower income families (largely families of color) often have less access to good education or leave school early to help support their families. Not to mention differences like ask/axe which is cultural and has nothing to do with the intelligence of the person.
Having a standard set of grammar rules for clarity in writing is totally fair. Believing said standard is the only "good" English and enforcing "proper" grammar in casual spaces is elitist, and by extension, racist. If you understood what someone said, then the purpose of language is served. If you correct them, even though you understood, you are telling them their dialect is wrong and yours is right. Dialects used by low-class people, like AAVE and Appalachian, get labeled often as "bad english," which of course is racist. Why is our way of speaking better than theirs? The your/you're comment is not a good example of what I'm talking about, as Rachel is speaking in Standard American English. But Ross only says that to say he is smarter than her, and hopefully you can see how that's a little elitist.
It is a way to gatekeep people with little education, of different races or backgrounds, or different regions. Imagine how many capable people were never taken seriously because they sounded "country" (a Dear Prudence where the OP wrote in to complain of a co worker saying "warsh" instead of "wash"
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 That may be one way to look at it. It may also be true that some people love the English language and realize that if we throw out all the standards of grammar and spelling, we will end up lowering our ability to communicate effectively. All you need to do is read the average comment section for proof.
Correcting other's grammar is classist and racist now???? Well damn I'm not a native English speaker and even I know the difference between your and you're.
No, the point is that different communities develop different nuances to language and acceptance of only one of these as correct by default can be discriminatory
@@jotoenatehaaen are we supossed to know everyone's backgrounds and scholarity level? What's so wrong abot correcting it? No English dictionary, as far as I know, states your is as correct as you're. Correcting gramatical errors isn't racist lmao but in fact helpful
Could you two do a video about Malcolm in the Middle? I feel like it’s such a smart, quirky and unique show that’s held up really well, but I’d love to see your take on it.
I second that! Would love to watch a take for Malcolm in the middle. It still is kinda of a big deal in Latin America, a ‘Friends’ type of thing but for working class folks.
Well, if we're gonna watch the same series for three decades, we should probably analyze the characters and plotlines! But flawed characters will always be far more relatable than unrealistically "good" ones. We don't need parables. Phoebe trying to live with herself and finding out that the system isn't set up to let her be ethical in life - that's ALL of us who do our best... She wouldn't be much of a character if she was just portrayed as magically, impossibly ethical in every form of consumption ever.
I hate how old shows are criticised for being dated! Of course they’re dated, they’re old🙄 Things change. Look at movies from the 1940s etc, we don’t expect them to have the same outlook as today or have to apologise for it. It’s just the way life is - we learn, we move on.
This video actively talked down about using correct spelling, and grammar. Making the false claim that the spelling and grammar have some kind of link to your race, or socioeconomic situations. Which is actually anti-intellectualism. The fact that you're able to read this is all the proof you need.
I think most of the problems with Friends come from being a comedy. When a plot line is closer to drama they tried to be progressive. But they put that aside for a few laughs every time. Even with Chandler's dad, I think they tried to be inclusive, unless they could laugh at it. Also in this case I think they were a bit clumsy, but I honestly think they had good intentions. With Ros, I think it got out of hand because they needed to make him break up with Rachel, and they did it through his flaws. To be fair, she does break up with him for many years. Also, when are we going to be ready as a society to admit that girl from the Xerox place took advantage of Ross?
Ross is a character that i don't like just like all the people ( David Schwimmer is the reason why i like him a little bit ) , but someone tell him if he stayed with Julie in season 2 he would have avoided : 1° a toxic relationship with Rachel 2° 2 divorces 3° ( and most important of all ) : the huge hatred that fans feel for him
I really like this video about this subject. I have seen plenty youtube video's about Friends both extremely loving it and extremely criticizing it and I really like how this video manages to express both. Personally I love the show and I think it has so many great moments and messages but undeniably it is also very wrong at times and has so many toxic moments that I keep cringing at. I have deep respect for this video trying to capture both sides of that story in a nuanced way. And while I feel like, with 21:27 of runtime, it only scratched the surface of both the good and bad takes that are in Friends. I hope this video helps the large amount of people who still watch this show to look at through the lens of time, enjoy and cherish what is great but also be critical about it and talk about what is problematic. In a way, we as viewers might all see ourselves as additional friends who have the ability to say: "well, I really don't like what you said there." and keep the important conversations about these topics going.
The true takeaway of Friends is that they are showing a realistic grey world. All the characters are morally grey and have various flaws, bias and bigotry. Many times they learn from it and become better and some time they never do. But that's life and everyone is like that.
What I felt from this show that no one is perfect despite of trying to be a good person and that's why all this positivity and toxicness looks real to me cause friends are like that,they aren't always spreading positive messages and are sometimes purely toxic even when they think they are right.
These guys have helped me tremendously through the many confinements I've had while living in Quebec: they too have been cooped up for 10 seasons either in the café or in Monica's apartment. They had nothing to envy.
This may be a controversial take, but I think that all of the backlash towards Ross is actually sign of an increasing inability to accept moral fallibility - which is a very real part of being human. We have come to expect perfection of everyone around us, and we no longer know the difference between disliking a trait and disliking the person who displays that trait. Ross is childish and flawed in a lot of ways. He's also a good friend and a caring boyfriend (most of the time). And there's a reason that he is the way he is. I still like Ross, and I still like him and Rachel together. And watching a show full of politically correct, always morally superior characters would be extremely boring.
@@thatqueenG I 100% agree with you, but I was not commenting on the show as a whole. Just the trend of labelling Ross as a toxic or bad character. I think some of the critique is completely fair, but overall the analysis og his character is a little one sided. The lack of diversity is a completely seperate discussion :)
I think Ross could have been an excellent character if he showed a little bit of growth. Like the babysitter episode. It's quoted a lot to show Ross being sexist thinking that male nannies shouldn't exist. But by the end of the episode it's sort of shown that the only one that has a problem is Ross and that's something he had to overcome. You can have problematic characters. Basically all of us in real are to some degree. Showing growth is what really helps characters shine
I don't really see anything wrong, it was a different time. And as for all the character flaws... well, without them we wouldn't have a show, every show, even a comedy needs conflict.
@@kclink1579 exactly. All those awesome scenes where a character usually calls out another character for being an asshole that always gets applause.... Wouldn't be possible if the person wasn't an asshole to begin with.
Yea agree it was over 20 years ago you can’t really put today’s standards on then because society and the world has changed so much. What was considered normal even 10 years ago we wouldn’t do now we are more inclusive to all cultures. Why can’t the take just enjoy a show without picking it apart every 5 seconds.
That's probably true, the whole premise of "Twenty something pals experience life and love together" was a novelty at the time, but since so many shows are copying its formula, it doesn't feel as fresh anymore.
It would. I don't know where the idea just because people are becoming more aware, we're gonna cancel everything we don't like and act like South Park, and the Boondocks weren't and are still running.
I think it's the nostalgia factor that makes it as popular as it is. If it were the same show set in the present day, I don't think it would've been nearly as hyped.
The first 1000 people to use the link will get a free trial of Skillshare Premium Membership: skl.sh/thetake05212
Americans don't own the English language, we'll keep OUR grammar, thanks.
A lot of fat girls are miserable, denying themselves the opportunity for a better life because people like you keep telling them they're fine the way they are, that to me it's even more toxic
Imagine telling a drug addict "you're fine the way you are, nevermind the haters", I used to be fat and sad, now I'm fit and glee.
Social constructs don't matter to reality
@@seabreeze4559 context?
I think Phoebe's ethical stance is actually a fairly nuanced take on how in real life you sometimes you end up compromising your values. It's difficult to live ethically in rampantly consumerist society, and people who try to live ethically aren't immune to the cultural 'buy more' messages that everyone else gets.
Why are you people so terrible at doing these videos you either haven't watched what you're talking about or you deliberately choose to ignore context or give your own agenda driven biased viewpoints 🤦🏽
To be fair, the show actually showed Chandler's father as a good person. He used to attend his son's school functions unlike his wife who used to ditch her son for no particular reason. It's Chandler's own insecurity that he can't accept his father as he is in spite of having feminine interests himself.
Exactly
Yeah he was always with his dad. Even as a kid I never understood why they were so mean to chandlers dad
Um they aren't real people. The writers wrote both the of the characters. Like
Mother* since she's a trans woman
@@wendyngo6765 OOP! Thank you!
I love how Friends has its own TV Trope based on how unrealistically large their apartment is lol.
Precisely, "Friends Rent Control." I love how "The Good Place" even good naturedly poked fun at the notion of a mere chef and a waitress living in an apartment that gorgeous on their salaries, though it's possibly handwaved in the sense that Monica is illegally subletting her grandmother's apartment.
Joey danced with the super lol and it was from her grandmother lol. It didnt bother me as it did Carrie's life style on Sex in the City lol
Friends Rent Control! Yes, I love that trope. They played it straight and averted it in Castle, too. Castle is a successful author, so it makes sense that he can afford his place, but there’s no way in hell Beckett should have such a spacious apartment on a detective’s salary.
@@darkecofreak23 Why else do you think she ended up with Castle? Bills keep piling up
I think I remember that Monica inherited the apartment from her grandmother or something which is why she doesn't pay rent. I think they had an episode where she tries to cover it up in order to keep the apartment.
I think phoebe always being unafraid to debate Ross was one of the reasons I always find them one of the most underrated dynamics on the show
same, i respect that about her.
@russ smith RIGHT? 🤣
@russ smith You are right, the proper grieving process is to kidnap/steal a child's pet
Except Phoebe didnt debate as much as just blindly troll. She didnt evenbelieve half those things
@@harish123az which in all honesty is sort of part of the fun of that kind of dynamic and the only way to really get through someone like Ross. It could get annoying but for the most part it was genuinely hilarious and I liked that it never created a rift between them. They were two very different characters but still good friends
One of my favorite things is Phoebe and Joeys platonic love for each other, I'm glad they weren't paired up like the others. It was just pure platonic love.
Omg me too ! I am SO glad they never did that plus it never seemed like a loss !
Chandler and rachel too!
Even more impressive is that both of them acknowledged that they could get the other easily if they wanted. It was literally an option not to get together
“You could do a lot worse than Joey Tribiani!”
I personally am disappointed that they didn’t get together but their friendship was nice too I guess
Phoebe's a testament to resilience and optimism, girl's got the backstory of a Shonen Anime lead and the grit to match.
Exactly!!
Best description of her i have ever heard hahaha
Agree!!
Yeah I don't think she's "toxic" at all, her occassionally being selfish and hypocritical while doing good deeds is just humanising and normal. Imagine a sitcom character who just always did great selfless things? Bleh.
@@mankytoes honestly, giving into temptations, especially when hers really weren’t that bad and were pretty much things most people did on a day to day basis, is really just human nature
Something else that I noticed on friends is that, as much as there was little diversity, it was treated very normal. Nobody defined or pointed out Julie and Charlie because of the color of their skin nor treated them differently because of it, it was just about their personality. Nobody had a problem with Carol being gay, Ross just didn't like that she cheated on him. The only people that had a problem with Chandler's father being trans were Chandler and his mother, and that was because of the family situation and not because of her sex. Nobody questioned how a woman could be on top of her field (Julie and Charlie), it was just assumed that it was because they deserved it. Say what you want, I still think Friends depicted equality much better than many other shows
Yes, and, first of all, people tend to forget that it was a 1990s and early 2000s show! It started literally more than 25 years ago! For its time, it was so avant-guarde!
thiss!! also people tend to forget that the show was made more than two decades ago and still got a lot of things right! Some people only want to complain these days.
They never said he was trans, but rather he was a drag queen. Also, it seemed like being a parent was neither of chandler's parents #1 priority.
@@mynameisthis1580 I honestly have trouble differenciating between trans and drag queen, but still that doesn't change how she was treated very normally. It is true though that neither of them was very good parent, and that is exaclty what chandler had problems with
Thats because normal thinking people dont think like that. Only racists and people who are racist against themselves (victimizing themselves) think like that. The whole asking for diversity is racist and homophobic, because you literally focus on the color of the skin and sexuality of the characters, which in an ideal world should not matter. If the cast is all white, fine. If the cast is all black, fine. It really does not fucking matter. The only people who really get pushed away by society are disabled people and literally nobody mentions them when talking about diversity. Its always race, sexuality and gender… yeah yeah yeah, we know the story by now.
Friends' fat shaming makes me realize that no matter how beautiful, kind and career-driven you are, if you're fat you're just the fat girl.
Sad af and blatantly dehumanizing
That sucks
Fat is bad its a fact both for man and woman
@@jennerick92jm fat is only bad once it borderlines on obesity or start causing health problems. otherwise, what really is the issue? it's the horrible stigma, the stereotypes that fat people have to endure. some can't escape the "fat kid" label even well into their adulthood and have to unlearn their insecurities (Schmidt on New Girl is one example, strikingly similar to Monica.) Please, for the love of god, stop with the fatphobia.
@@jennerick92jm okay, fatphobe, fat is bad argument is just stupid because while fat is bad we all have fat, you might have fats clogging Your arteries while your skinny, but no one judges you for that now do they? also the comment was discussing how a whole person with emotions, interests, a soul was reduced into just a fat person, like they're nothing but just fat which doesn't make sense and highly judgemental and toxic to value a person only based on their weight, which renders your comment basic and irrelevant.
13:20 I never saw Fat Monica as a cartoon. What I took away, was that Monica has a SEVERE case of untreated anxiety issues. Initially, that results in compulsive eating, forcing the brain into its state of relaxation that it enters when we feed.
However, this changes when Monica forces herself to get thin. Her anxiety can no longer be sated by compulsive eating, and, instead, manifests itself as an obsessive desire to control, mainly through cleaning and keeping a perfectly tidy home to look at. Of course, we learn that this truly is a need to appear as tidy, as she has her locked off junk closet.
This isn’t to say that Fat Monica isn’t dated, which it is, and I might be giving the writers credit for something that they didn’t plan, but I always saw Monica as more complex than that.
Or rather, she forces herself to stop using compulsive eating as a crutch and deal with her anxiety... I say this a s a compulsive eater.
Well thought out analysis
I agree! Plus her parents treating her the way they did, ( putting her down in subtle ways, clearly favouring Ross), would have made her over eating and then obsessiveness products of that rather than just fat phobia.
completely agreed, no clue if the writers intended for this but they did often portray her as eating whenever she was treated poorly - almost always by her parents mainly her mum tho - and showed it as a way of her dealing with it and then she developed her need for things to be clean which she never displayed whilst fat, so i hope the writers at least had a vague idea of this when writing the show
Well said! People are meant to be a variety of sizes, but those variances also exist for a variety of reasons. Monica's reasons were indicative of her character's arc.
The one thing I never see anyone talk about is how glorified Monica and Richard’s relationship is despite it being really inappropriate.
Its not the age thing, if they were strangers it’d be fine. Its the fact Richard is Monica’s dad’s best friend who’s known her pretty much her entire life. Hell, his daughter was friends with Monica back in school. He may have been kind and loving but that man likely held her as a baby, and i honestly wouldn’t be surprised if it was revealed he’s her godfather given how close the two families are.
Exactly! Why does no one ever talk about this?! I absolutely hated their relationship and what's worse is that The Take's video on Richard just frames him as "the lover who got away"🤢
I suppose you also have an issue with Emma and Mr Knightley.
I think your ignoring the nuance of both the show and real life. It was viewed as inappropriate by several of the characters at first, but time showed the relationship was legitimate and not based on an imbalance of power. Monica never came across as someone being taken advantage of, and in real life these things can work out under the right circumstances. It's not a simple black and white issue.
Same I think is creppy I wish he never saw her grown up
Agreed, it’s wrong and creepy. I also agree with you that it’s not the age difference that’s creepy, it’s the fact that he has known her since she was a kid. I get that they wanted to include Tom Selleck, because he’s such a huge star, but I think it would have been better if they had him date Phoebe, because Richard didn’t know her when she was a kid. Or, if they really wanted Richard with Monica, they should have had him be a friend of Joey’s dad or Phoebe’s uncle or something like that.
Please do Big Bang and all the toxicities they normalize just because the characters are labelled as victims/incapable of understanding manners, emotions and nuances
This! People are fond of excusing the "quirky genius" for his lack of social graces rather than acknowledging that they're just big assholes
@@sarahtobore2832 They are! Even basic logic and people constantly telling them that what they're doing is wrong doesn't work! It doesn't take an idiot to figure out basic social respect, much less a genius.
There is a pretty good video on the subject. I don’t remember who made it but I think it’s called ’the adorkable misogony in the big bang theory’
@@tessajumppanen ugh! It's part of the reason why I avoid watching the series. Let's not even get into the "adorable racism".
@@tessajumppanen i believe it was pop culture detective or something like that
kind of surprised they didn't talk about rachel's issues, they did for everyone else, she has on multiple times tried to steal ross or joey away from their grilfriends, and in nearly every instance of this happening they don't even get together, they might end up fighting or just agreeing that they weren't meant for each other, "thanks rach' for trying to end my relationship with a perfectly great women just because you didn't want me to be with some one else when it didn't suit you, what a great friend you are" she rarely even feels guilty for it, someone might chide her for it but she doesn't learn her lessons, rachel is still funny as hell but this is a part of her that i really find annoying
True
Rachael was toxic too
True. Rachel was the worst. I never liked her.
@@erenssister.5535 Ross was THE worst. They're a match made in a messy childs play.
Yeah this is true but the take will never admit it. I never believe the take now as example in this video Rachel is fine and grammar is racist
They didn't point it out because Rachel is a woman. Classic The Take
I think that the reason why"Friends" is still a popular show, is because is like a human being, relatable and not relatable, perfect and flawed, just like everyone else. It has really good things and very bad things and we can learn from all of that.
As a fat woman, "so how many cameras are actually on you?" is a classic line. Absolutely hilarious.
Right? Interestingly I'm also a fat woman and I can laugh about fat jokes, huh.
@@id2091 Every friend groupe has thi kind of joke i think, but when it is a series that is universally known and represents a generation, it's not only a joke it becomes a message
In my opinion
I find this line weird cause Chandler acted like he saw fat Monica the first time when in reality He had already met her.
I think fat jokes are fine as long as that's all they are, jokes. When you start to genuinely attack and harass people for any reason then it becomes a problem. Some of the funnier jokes they made are fat jokes but other ones are boring and predictable
I find it hilarious too, what I dislike is Monica's representation in the episode of "what could have been". That was messed up.
That bit about Ross having "Main Character Syndrome".. 100%! But Rachel also had the same issue. When she got mad at someone, everyone else had to be mad at them too (and yes, this includes when she was mad at Ross), and when she had problems, everyone had to stop and cater to her as well. I think that's what made Ross and Rachel so particularly toxic together - because they were two sides of the same unhealthym self-absorbed coin.
They deserve each other...
I don't know why it annoys me, but people seem to keep forgetting that Pheobe originally wanted a simple wedding. It was Monica who initially went all out against Pheobe's wishes.
@Eddwardo Chesterfield THANK YOU!!!
Yes!!
Yes, thank you!
Monica was awful during Phoebe's wedding episode. AWFUL. And it really bothered me that the episode never acknowledges how abominable she's been with consequences, or has her apologise. Phoebe actually apologises to her! It's particularly galling considering a large part of Monica's personality was based around how the wedding day is your day and the essentiality of it being perfect. She made it all about her and her tastes, even after she'd had her own wedding day. It was only by chance (the blizzard) that it ended up being the day Phoebe wanted.
@@jaycievictory8461 Well, the episode kind of acknowledged it by having Phoebe fire her in one of the most satisfying public rants ever and having all of the other friends seem content with it. Even Chandler didn’t bother comforting Monica when it happened haha. She was already such an undeniably unlikable character by that point, I don’t think she needed more comeuppance. Monica always gets too ambitious and ends up losing, it’s how her character is designed.
@@hollywoodshopaholic Except Phoebe takes back firing her, apologises to Monica and says she wants Monica back as her planner more than she wants to get married 😬
Personally, I like Monica as a character, despite her faults, but that episode really didn't do it for me. It needed Monica to acknowledge she'd been really out of line.
Well...for Ross , it's very simple , he didn't need a relationship , he didn't need any women , he didn't need a girlfriend , he didn't need Rachel ( definitaly not ) , Ross only needed a therapy
And you need some grammar lessons
@@natalyamartirosyan who asked you ?
@@henri191 my inner condescending voice ;D
10:44 “fixed rules of grammar are racist and classless constructs on an ever changing system”🤣
I agree. From his childhood he was always treated special where Monica was emotionally neglected. This made him feel entitled so he felt his pov was the only pov and everything should be about him. He did have his moments like gifting Phoebe bike or staying with Rachel despite having a big interview but he really was disturbed. As for grammar, sure it makes huge difference in few cases but majority times if people understand what you are saying its okay. Many of us do not have english as a first language.
You guys should do a video on the trope of always turning the socially conscious friend into a laughing stock. The main examples being Brita from community and Leela from futurama.
I agree!
and Elena from One Day At A Time!
Hermione in Harry Potter. The whole house elf thing is a mess.
Or that caring about animal rights like Phoebe does is for weird irrational funny hippies. It's fucked up because it sends the message that supporting animal abuse is rational and normal.
To be fair, Britta only fits the trope in the first episodes. After that, they mostly make fun at how her being "socially conscious" is only on the surface, as she doesn't really do anything useful about it.
You lost me at the criticism of Ross telling Phoebe, the cat isn't her mother...
Sometimes there IS an objective truth. There's nothing wrong with being rational and knowledgeable. No one likes to be corrected, but there is nothing wrong with correcting your friends even though it can be annoying.
@@nancymclaughlin6790 I don't know. Shouldn't you tell a friend when they're being delusional if you think it might not be healthy for them ?
@@sorkaem at the end of the day it depends on the friend and the level of delusion if the delusion was really bad the constant forcing her to see the truth can form a mental breakdown
Oh that's the comment I've been looking for
Yeah but the way he yelled it at her proved that he wasn’t doing that for her or for the little girl but for him. To prove once again that he was right. But sometimes being right is not the most important thing and he fails to understand that. Phoebe might have act a little selfish but she was going through something very hard that Ross can’t begin to understand.
The take has had it in for Ross they are obsessed with him
yesss we love a nuanced taaaake. I wish you'd go more into the male nanny episode. It's brought up so often as an example of Friends aging badly but I think it's a perfect commentary on fragile masculinity?? It just shows Ross as petty and insecure and celebrates Sandy for being so comfortable with challenging gender norms. All still super relevant
And tbh, a lot of those attitudes haven't gone away. They tend not to be shown on tv as much, but if anything they have hardened over time. Men doing childcare as a job is still seen as suspect, with the implicit assumption of homosexuality, paedophilia etc. If anything, they used humor to take those assumptions on and challenge them, and gave them to key members of the cast rather than just a one-off guest star, because in real life the people who do make those types of assumptions are everywhere, they are people you care about, not just people you can dismiss as 'randoms'. Of course, the flipside of this is that the studio audience will laugh when it wants to, for the reasons it wants to, and that seems to be mostly about the transgression of the normal 'Joey is carrying a handbag!' 'The nanny is a man!' which surprises them into laughter, while the discomfort of the characters is found funny rather than embarrassing.
People love to misunderstand the nanny episode. You're right, the joke is on ROSS, not the perfect nanny.
@@kahkah1986 yess I agree. I think the Joey's bag episode is similarly misunderstood. In fact, Joey is the least fragile man here and doesn't carry shame about the bag until people tease him about it. Rachel encourages Joey to wear the bag but in the end sadly admits that maybe 'the world is not ready for him and the bag' which is also the problem that is being pointed out- Joey having the bag is not the joke, his closed-minded surroundings are, but I agree the audience laughter is misleading in that sense and I think at the time the 'man with handbag' thing might have been so novel that that is what brought on laughter, which makes the lesson of these episodes even more important I think, especially for the time they were made. I think we've come a long way in some respects maybe in terms of gendering clothing etc. but fragile/toxic masculinity is still suuch a widespread complex problem that I think these and other episodes are great at breaking down
Yeah, it's a good portrayal in the end. It seems people don't like the nuance of Ross' character, but he's like a real person- he is often selfish, has massive insecurities, partly caused by past trauma (his wife cheating on him and leaving him is always portrayed as something he should just get over because she realised she was gay) and some backwards views, but that doesn't mean he can't also be a kind person. I'm sure plenty of people on here have older family members who come out with some horrific stuff at time, but are also extremely loving and caring people most of the time.
Just because an episode is making jokes in an episode of important subject matter, doesn’t mean it a, can’t be made fun of, and b, doesn’t mean it’s endorsing those stereotypes. If anything the episode made fun of how Ross couldn’t handle it, not the nanny
I honestly like how the characters are flawed and not all that woke cause I feel like it was more played as a learning experience for them and hopefully for the viewers as well.
So true. That's the highlight of the show. We're humans & we all come with our own toxic traits. To watch it on a show helps us identify that and possibly understand why it's wrong.
The struggles each character face will also be because of their toxic traits.
If they were all woke nobody would even know about the show because it would have flopped off the start
Well if characters weren't flawed there would be no show anyone that complains about that are a special kind of stupid
They seemed to have good intentions always, even if they made off jokes.
They were realistic, simple as that. Nowadays the reason sitcoms are absolute dog shit is purely due to the fact everything and every character has to fit within the lines of LQBT, Woke, Politically correct, BLM, Acab, Feminist, Kam, antifa’s agenda
I have to disagree with the comment about grammar rules. Grammar is what holds every language together and makes it possible to learn and communicate in any language. There are also different rules in every language when you think about it. English is the official language of several countries around the world, but there are differences to the grammar depending on the version you learn. There are also different version of the same language within the same country. Even in poor communities, there are grammar rules and orders, even if the speakers are not aware of them.
Ross is a well-off intellectual, sure enough, but his obsession with grammar is not based on racism or classism, but on the kind of person he is, which makes it a neat characteristic that says a lot about him as a person.
I am also fond of grammar, as one would be able to infer, because I am a writer and those rules make it easier to communicate a point. It is also interesting to study the development of languages over time and use - though I understand that I am privileged having grown up in a country where education is free (actually we get paid to study through taxes), so I got to attend the university and live out my nerd-dream.
Do you live in Denmark? Also, great text, English is my second language and I understood it all!
@@damndanim Yes, I do live in Denmark. Thank you :-)
@@Spicie95 that's great! No problem, love Danmark 🇩🇰
It is interesting to study other languages! They did not support their point well. As you pointed out, grammar is merely the rules of any language and dialect. It is not racist any more than the way I walk is racist. They mean holding one dialect as supreme while others are "wrong" is classist and (since they always go hand in hand) racist. Clarity is important in writing, as you pointed out, so the standard dialect is always used in news and books and stuff. That's fine, because it's the most recognizable dialect, you want everyone to understand. But you can't say that's the only "correct" way to write or speak. In the US, AAVE gets so much crap for being "bad english" when it's just another dialect with its own grammar. I shouldn't correct anyone speaking it, thereby insisting my dialect is better. That would be racist.
The who/whom and your/you're distinctions are not a good example, because they are all still speaking Standard American English. But Ross clearly places pride in using the "correct" grammar. And like everything else in his life, if it's not his way, it's objectively bad. So I don't think it's a stretch to say he looks down on people with other dialects, which is racist.
Thank you, I was trying to find a comment about this because it really bothered me how they said that
The fact that Netflix preserved ‘Friends’ explains what a hot commodity it still is.
@Erwin Lii I don’t know.
@Erwin Lii no, unfortunately. It's on Hulu though! Great, underrated show.
Thats only available in India bruh
@@epie6 Yes.
@@epie6 uhh we know but Netflix needs it to chain the Indian audience because they'd rather watch prime oruginals
Some things I disagree with:
1) Ross is shown to have suffered as a child by toxic masculinity which has made him an unhappy adult. His dad would mock him for playing with dolls and for wearing dresses, and so he grew up with these beliefs only to have them shattered once he accepted Sandy ("manny"). This is character development. So I don't think that should have been a toxic takeaway since he did learn from his mistake, and if anything, he is a cautionary tale of what toxic masculinity and outdated upbringings can do to a person.
2) "With the casual implication that the world was right to see her as undeserving of love until she lost weight". Monica is not shown to be unlovable or unworthy of love because of her weight. She was friends with Rachel since they were little and she and Chandler get together even in the world where she never loses weight. Also, when Monica voices concern of gaining weight in the future, Chandler claims he will still love her even if she'll grow big or small. The show makes a point of not being superficial in my opinion, because as the audience, we know that Monica is a great friend and person, and it hurts to see her lose confidence in herself because of her weight. And even after she lost weight, she still didn't resolve all the issues she had, so losing weight wasn't the solution to everything, which is why I interpreted that takeaway differently.
3) About the lack of diversity.... It would have been really cool and interesting to see a diverse group of people. It could have contributed to the show by showing more races, religions (since they didn't really focus on Judaism) or cultures, but I think the show wouldn't be the same really. The whole show is about 6 people complain about what some call "white rich people problems" and adding POC might have taken the show into subjects that they didn't know how to address or didn't want to out of fear of what's PC and what's not (like this video now). I think they should have had a more diverse group of friends, it would have only added to the show, but I understand why they perhaps didn't (since it was also the 90's, not 2020's), but I still like Friends. And, all the more reasons to make more shows of a group of friends in a city, this time with diversity.
4) Also, Phoebe not understanding what being a good person is? Really? Phoebe?! She just shows how hard it is to keep true to your values when faced with temptations. I feel like this takeaway was pointless. Why shouldn't helping people make you feel good? And if she sometimes slips up and goes back on her values, it doesn't make her selfish or a bad person, just human.
I actually don't mind that Friends didn't have diversity (I say this is a nonwhite person), because diverse characters don't work without diverse writers. If they did include diverse characters, it would have been a disaster because they would have certainly reduced the nonwhite characters to one-dimensional stereotypes. That's essentially what happened with "New Girl". New Girls had a lot of good moments, but every marginalized character was reduced to jokes about their race or sexuality.
@@360shadowmoon yeah, that's what I think. I think they were right to avoid writing POC characters if they didn't know how to approach it, but I also think that if they would have added more diverse writters, it could have added to the show, but you also can't hit all the check boxes, and Friends is still fantastic.
Theres no such thing as toxic masculinity
@@LeeLe412 Well you can because they could of given a chance to more black or ethnic writers and they didn't
@@360shadowmoon I'm not saying its right but the sitcom formula is pretty much stereotypes and one dimensional caricatures Its kind of almost pointless to complain about just watch a sitcom that doesn't adhere to the traditional
Many of you are saying how Ross was full of toxic masculinity or homophobia, when in reality we've seen that he had many insecurities about his feminity because of his father. As for Carol-Susan his dislike is reasonable , since carol cheated on him and then they proceeded to put down his role as Ben's father. They were being mean and I believe that's mostly what infuriated him( there was homophobia ofc because we are talking about the 90s , but not just from Ross and that was definitely not the main reason he disliked them)
This isn't really about the video, but mostly for the comments. Great analysis as always!
Yes, I think the Carol storyline would realistically be emotionally challenging, anger is a legitimate emotion in that case. If anything I feel current sitcoms just avoid those types of situations or are unrealistically positive about how others react.
I always hated Susan.
Remember the one with the sonogram at the end? Where they try and decide bens last name? Ross should have been in there, not Susan. If he's in bens life, he deserves to be in the surname along with Carol. They're the biological parents. Susan's helping raise him ALONG with them. That was ridiculous
Well I think both points could be valid. He is full of toxic masculinity and homophobia BECAUSE of his father and Carol cheating on him and degrading his role as the father. And also it was the 90s so..
@@noonstyles3973 yes!
The episode where Ross is jealous of Susan and Emily hanging out was something I always thought was more related to his trauma from how his relationship with carol ended. I am not defending him, he is the only character I dislike ,(if it wasn’t for David schwimmer’s excellent performance I would hate the character) but as someone who has had problems with friends in the past, I still have trouble trusting any new possible friend.
As I said previously, I am not defending Ross, but when someone exits your life in an extremely traumatic way you won’t get over it in a year.
If you look at him this way, a lot of the way he acts in the early seasons make a lot more sense.
That's what I'm trying to explain to my friends!! But honestly I also think they write this situation with Carol being a lesbian specifically for the "easy homophobic jokes" ... That's a shame cause we would understand the pain of Ross in a better way if it wasn't amplified with homophobia.
@@erimee3014 thank you. For example the same was happening with Chandler moms, the mom was angry at the other one and sometimes she was outta pocket given the identity crisis that her ex must have been going thru that could have been hard but it was understandable with the lies and cheating she suffered at the hands of that which can cause a lot of trauma. And is so funny to me cause the girls who criticized Ross about him being weary about Rachel working with what's his name are in the next breath saying they delete their bfs girl followers on social media cause they don't trust girls and they had trauma. Then where is the sympathy for Ross
@@libragoddess98287 Yeah I don't think Ross was entirely out of line (though sending tons of gifts and bringing a picnic to the office was inappropriate). Mark did want to sleep with Rachel and Rachel practically gaslighted Ross by repeatedly refusing to acknowledge that. It would make me suspicious too. Also, Ross wasn't constantly jealous, Mark just happened to be someone who got under his skin. Girls get jealous and controlling all the time but people play that off as funny instead of shameful.
@@hollywoodshopaholic THANK YOU SO MUCH for understanding, everytime i saw ross and his struggles in relationship i would know why but most people were like no we don't care and i would feel like i overanalyzed.
Yes, I agree. I always disliked the way everyone shrugged off the fact that Carol cheated on him with Susan and it was just kind of expected that Ross would be forgiving and understanding because she’s a lesbian. It doesn’t matter who someone leaves you for, it is not an excuse for cheating! Ross definitely needed therapy to get over his trust issues, and he was toxic at times but I did sympathize with him more than his so called friends did about that. And Ross and Rachel were both toxic together and equally as bad.
‘90s Rampant Homophobia and ‘00s Latent Homophobia. Kudos to all the Queer People who survived that.
I will accept your kudos! Lol
Yup we did and there’s still a bit more surviving to do before we’re free to be ourselves.
I think us gays are more resilient than having to worry about surviving a harmless sitcom
@@bresophil True. But I was just referring to life in general. Sitcoms will come and go.
There was a scene were chandler tells joey that his tailor sexualy assaulted him. joey then realised that he was also assaulted by this tailor. One of the most problematic scenes in the whole series and the audience was laughing so much.
tailors need to take an inseam measurement, they didn't know what that was
How soft we've gotten in a mere 20 years...
That "joke" was never funny to me... I was always horrified. They never discussed it further than that scene
"@@gabiluch87 How fragile ARE you that a throwaway joke "horrified" you? Did you want an in-depth storyline about gropey tailors?
@@saltycrunch How was this a joke? what was the punchline? Explain it please.
Thank you for talking about this! Growing up, I was definitely getting whiplash from seeing constant double standards in the show.
I'd learn things like "women can do anything a man can do" only to see "a man can't be a nanny" in another episode. The same with "it's okay for two women to get married and raise a kid together" only to get "two guys can't hug too often because it'll seem gay".
Edit: Perhaps I used the wrong example because I perfectly understood that the "manny" thing was to highlight Ross's own toxic and fragile masculinity. Maybe I should've mentioned every "Chandler is gay" joke instead.
Let’s not forget the whole “women can marry each other!” point being heavily interspersed with Ross’s incessant homophobic comments
Ditto, I absolutely concur! While this show still holds up splendidly in a lot of respects, it's still awkward to watch Ross ridicule Sandy for having a traditionally female job, or for all of the gay jokes at Chandler's expense, even when he was simply talking about a musical he enjoyed.
It’s all about framing. The whole “men can’t be nannies” is framed as Ross’ own insecurities, not as an actual value someone should hold.
@@mikerivera373 please,please say it louder for everyone in the back with their zero brains🙏🙏❤️
@@mikerivera373 thank you, I don’t understand how more people don’t get this, it’s as if they didn’t actually watch the show
When I hear people under 30 react so negatively to the term “friend zone” in old sitcoms and movies, I think they don’t realize the meaning has changed. In the early 90’s, my early 20’s “she friend-zoned me” or “I’m stuck in the friend zone” was just an expression of relatable frustration. It meant your crush wanted friendship not romance. Ther was no anger, no demand, no entitlement. I had a huge crush on a close college friend and tried hard to persuade to her give “us” a try, but she wasn’t into it, and eventually I started dating someone else. Male and female friends knew exactly what I meant when I described it as the Friend Zone, and they said it too. In the past few years, holy hell, the term suddenly took on this whole other ugly connotation, of the anger and resentment at being cheated out of sex she owed him. Yikes! I wish people watching old shows understand that the phrase meant something different back then.
I’m a 29 year old woman and I’ve been friendzoned in the way you explain (i.e., unrequited love). It always drives me up a wall when other women assume it never happens to women. Like congrats I guess y’all are hotter than me and have never experienced rejection?
me too. I asked a guy out and we went out a few times and then I asked him if we could take it further and he said he just wanted to be friends and he became one of the best friends I ever had. I enjoyed his company more than I wanted to be in an intimate relationship.
Do you not think there's anything slightly just a wee bit creepy about "trying hard to pursuade her"? It's the persuade bit. I've been there on both sides of the friendzone and I just cringe at my awful misguided attempts to "pursuade". I learnt you can't make someone like you, no matter how pursuasive you try to be (or how much you like them). Do you see what I mean or are you mega offended? I didn't intend to be cruel but I understand it may have come off like that.
Yup. And the way I learned it was that you had to make your interest to women clear upfront. Otherwise you'd miss you're window and enter the 'zone' where could only see you as a friend. This helped me grow a spine and actually talk to ladies I liked.
@@Misstressofdons Ugh. No, not “mega offended” but rolling my eyes a bit, but I don’t mean that to insult you either. If someone’s particular efforts to persuade were creepy, then yep that’s creepy, but that doesn’t mean all persuasion is creepy, nor that we should give up if we don’t succeed immediately. Lots of people I know are dating or married to people they had to pursue or persuade or woo for a while. That’s life. It’s true that you can’t make someone like you, but you can persuade someone to try something new that they might like, you can get people comfortable doing something they wanted but felt inhibited about, and you can convince them that you’re serious and not another player. All of those take time and effort, and there’s nothing wrong with effort. Some people even like knowing they were worth effort. It comes down to if your persuasion efforts are positive, flattering, and inviting or demanding, entitled, and oblivious to signs of real discomfort.
I'm sorry but "your" and "you're" is objective truth lol
There is no objective truth to language since its ever evolving
Agreed
@@lilchiliflake Yeah well we need ways to indicate possessive vs. contraction. How do you propose we do it? Things need to be standardized or else we get chaos.
@@KittySnicker I love the use of the word chaos which I as a second language learner used to think it's pronounced differently as ch for chair because there's no standard for this one but yeah I agree lol
Exactly, it's really scary how some people are replacing the truth with alternative truths, while others are simply trying to convince us that the truth doesn't exist...
It starts with grammar, and then it goes to maths. Instead of pushing everyone towards knowledge, we're pushing everyone towards a world where ignorance and knowledge are a question of perspective...
Surprised you put "guy nanny" scene right into the rigid gender roles section. I actually liked this segment, it's exactly when Ross gets called out for his fragile masculinity and gender stereotypes. I agree with your messge overall, but this scene wasn't a "toxic takeaway", it was a nice bit of self-reflection!
Men get called out for fragile masculinity.
Men get called out for toxic masculinity.
Fat Monica gets pity, and the blame is put on the parents.
When will you toxic feminists ever see your own crap?
“Fixed rules of grammar are racist” - wait what?!?
I know it makes no sense
I automatically disliked the video when I heard that absurd take.
Will math be declared racist?
Wtf! you cant label something as racist just cause you think its pedantic
@@manthony225 as far as I know, mathematic rules don't change over time like language does.
As a gay man, Friends was the most gay friendly and life saving show to me when i was a teenager, all the gay jokes were intimate like inside jokes between gay besties, laughters from an accepting openness yet delivered in self-deprecating manner, years later I finally knew why : Friends’ co-creator/chief writer David Crane is gay ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 That self-deprecating manner of writing would definitely be misunderstood as homophobic if without the knowledge of the writers being homosexual/gay friendly, those writers were actually woker than most of today’s petty woke gang tbh.
Just bc he's gay doesn't make it okay; I'm glad you found comfort in it, but internalized homophobia is a thing and self-deprecation is not okay. It still is homophobic
@@charlotterouge8107 Yea the goal-posts have been moved since the show came out. It's still very well written and funny. If you want to depose Friends, write something better.
@@vipertact Yeah, our standards are now higher than the floor. That means we can look back on Friends and go "this was gross, let's not pretend it's funny anymore"
@@charlotterouge8107 So why is it still funny? The comedic timing is perfect on so many scenes.
You aren't looking for comedy, you're looking to check your little list of PC do's and don'ts.
@@vipertact I should've clarified- I mean we can look back on those scenes that joke about LGBT stuff and say "that was gross". I'm not talking about the series as a whole or saying the series as a whole is not funny. Not sure where you got the idea that I'm somehow trying to " depose" Friends- criticizing one aspect of a show isn't the same as trying to tear it down
"don't get married until you're ready" YESSSS. it has nothing to do with your age or salary, and everything to do with you and your partner's maturity and aligning long-term goals.
Friends showing guys being homophobic does not make the show itself homophobic, in my opinion.
True - they're just saying that the men with fragile masculinity issues are uncomfortable around the subject. The girls poke fun because they know the jokes will land
most of the time they even get called out for any homophobic behavior. Ross ends up opening up to the "manny" and crying on his shoulder and explaining how toxic masculinity actually hurt him growing up, which is why he is the way he is. While the "Manny" is shown to work in what is considered to be a more "feminine" job, he is not gay and is actually said to be engaged to a woman, which shows men can works in fields like child caring. Chandler is seen looking at men and admiring their looks, hugging Joey all the time and even shared a bed with him. He and Joey also weren't insulted when they were assumed to be a gay couple (just annoyed because it lowered their chances with the women), and had no problem pretending to be a gay couple to get Ben back from the city. Also, while Joey is the most Macho of the guys, he is also the most emotional, most caring, and most physically affectionate (qualities attributed to women) without being mocked as "girly". If anything, these traits are appreciated by all of the friends. Also the fact that all the guys have kissed each other on the lips.
They also use their homophobic jokes straight as jokes.
There are a bunch of Bi Bi Bi videos of friends, so it's weird to call the show homophobic after watching them.
Yeah but the homophobia is not what's being laughed about, gays are. Take The Office, Michael's jokes are not funny, his ignorant behaviour is
I've always thought, the very best moment in Friends IS that moment, when Joey realises, that he knows, that Monica and Chandler are together. The buildup is extremely well developed and his response is hillarious. Theres also no better meme'able picture.
The beauty of this show is the banter between the characters, they talk like a genuine group of friends. We need to stop pulling it apart and just enjoy it for what it is...a sitcom. If it wasn’t still relevant it would be popular or funny
It's possible to wholeheartedly enjoy something and simultaneously see and accept it's flaws in the context of it's time. I don't think explorations like these detract from the value of Friends.
Thank you. I am so sick of people critizing it for this and that, for being "lily white" for example.. there were actually man non white characters on the show, the main cast just happens to be white.. so what? I don't see anyone criticizing The Fresh Prince of Bel Air for bieng entirely black. I feel like there is another agenda at play from these critics.
I am still waiting for the spin-off where they explore Phoebe's entire childhood.
Wow!! I want to whats that. Whats the name of that show?
nice idea!
My one critique of this video:
Grammar is important and people still use "whom." In our increasingly globally-connected world, we SHOULD be able to understand and communicate with one another and we do that by adhering to certain grammar/spelling/language rules.
It kind of irritates me that The Take chose to describe Chandler as "the least masculine", when his character archetype is merely "the most neurotic".
Neurosis is coded feminine culturally (specifically Western culture).
Joey is the most cartoonishly masculine. Ross is the 'aaackttuaaaly' form of the same thing. Changler gets played for laughs early; but in the end, he's the most functional because he finally stops giving a crap.
I think he's supposed to be the least buff, the "wimpiest," and the least assertive/authoritative. By traditional American standards that's considered unmasculine (which I don't necessarily agree with, but there you go).
The writers purposely made him traditionally "unmasculine" and we're going to make him gay. There's a great video about it from Matt Baume’s Culture Cruise series on RUclips.
Wait, did she just say that grammar was racist? And cited HuffPost? LOL
Yupp, she most certainly did. Grammar is now racist. What's next? Hygiene is now racist? How about water? Will water be considered racist one day? I'm done !
Agree! But I believe that maybe they were reffering to how different ethnic groups talk? Like the black "ghetto" slang, or how latinxs talk in the USA? In "Friends" the characters only talk in a white-american way, but that's because they ALL ARE WHITE AMERICANS. Thus, it is not really racist. Using correct grammar ISN'T racist but I can see where they are coming from.
I disagree on Phoebe not knowing how to be a good person. She is portrayed as a real person with flaws. She is so good hearted but not perfect, and that's okay. She is a vegetarian but gets weak when she's pregnant and has cravings. Which doesn't make her a bad vegetarian. Just a human being who tries her best.
I agree! Also I never like it when people who at least try are accused of "hipoctrite" when they occasionally act selfish, while others don't ever even gife a F about injustice.
It pisses me off SO MUCH when Ross is played out as the villain in the cat episode. Phoebe was being delusional and kidnapped someone else's pet. All the others were enabling her.
Exactly! If it was just a stray maybe I would've had more sympathy for Phoebe but like you said, it was someone else's pet and I was so pissed off that Phoebe still refused to give the cat back once they found out the owner was looking for it. Sometimes there is an objective truth and I would have been like Ross if one of my friends did something like that
Great vid. Gotta say though, it's impossible for me to see Ross as the bad guy when he's calling out Phoebe's scientifically illiterate nonsense. Like yeah she's just trolling him (I think) when she refuses to believe in evolution, but that cat belonged to someone who loved it and Phoebe just insisted on keeping it anyways because she thought it was her reincarnated mom. I don't think she gets a free pass just because of her own emotional troubles at the time.
Science is what it is because it is accepted by the majority of people in the world right now. It doesn't claim to be the objective 'truth' and definitely accepts scope for discussion. Ross was being less scientific by refusing to acknowledge that science cannot be 'proven' to be the absolute truth.
It ws a matter of opinion tbh
Even if phoebe wsnt being “logical” like ross wanted her to be , ross should hv just respected her opinion on the matter and just shldnt hv tried to shove his facts down her throat
Thts what i think ...
@@28maybloom never cared about if the cat was really her mom, Ross was stolen from by Phoebe as a kid and it wrecked him. He wasn't letting Phoebe steal a little girls cat.
@@28maybloom I think your slightly confusing Science and Philosophy. Science is based in gathering and analysing evidence. It's true it's about likelihood rather than absolute truth, but that's why it's not about following what's already accepted.
@@28maybloom well you're wrong
Scince is purely based on evidence and as it is always open for discussion ( rational evidence based disscussion) because it's not a religion or a dogma, science is claiming to be objectively truthfull.
The thumbnail is just perfect!!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Joey didn't have a fragile masculinity!
He was always willing to do everything that everyone thought a man should not do.. be it wearing women's underwear, being sensitive, dancing with a man or knitting...
And yes, some women were ghosted, but when he realised what it was to feel ghosted, he called up "everyone" to tell them he is sorry
And most women told him he is not marriage material, so we can give credit to the women sleeping with him, to know him.
Apart from this point...
Thank you for doing the take on this... 🙏🏼
Yep Joey was pretty secure about his masculinity ! Don’t forget the part about him wearing women’s underwear proving phoebe point that only man comfortable enough with their masculinity could wear it
Why is nuance so lost on people nowadays, everything is taken at face value.
Joey was shown growing from being insecure to more secure.
When writers write perfect characters the show/movie tanks.
Do mixed messages of Seinfeld. What other show has a woman not prioritize getting married and having children, all while having a robust dating life and being best friends with 3 men, one of which is her ex boyfriend/fiancé ?
sounds like himym with variation
Shalaka J Elaine would definitely not find Shmosby Sponge worthy.
@@mandril45 Well, isn’t the point that George is an asshole?
But she's also a narcissistic sociopath; just like the others. Even Julia Louie-Dreyfuss has described Elaine as a wretched, soulless monster; who should never be allowed to breed.
mysteriiis that doesn’t mean Elaine doesn’t have positive takeaways.
It’s so interesting how the perspective of media changes. In 20 years a lot of the content we view as progressive is probably also going to be critiqued for some problematic aspect of it. There’s no such thing as a perfect piece of media.
True, but to me, wording it that way implies that critique is about issuing marks against a work, points deducted, something like that. When the reality is just that for many people thinking and talking about a work, examining and dissecting it, is just part of enjoying media
Yes. Society will probably become even more fragile than it already is...
Oh it will and these fake woke snowflakes will have to deal with the idiotic monster they've created 🤦🏽
fixed rules of grammer are racist and classist constructs? whoah, that's a bit too woke for me. ross is obnoxious but the show never stops acknowledging that, and being an obnoxious character isn't necessarily mysogynistic bc chandler and joey can't stand him either
I love this channel but they're getting way too woke too often now, oftentimes to the point of parody. "Correct grammar is racist and sexist" is a laughable position for anyone who's not a hyper-woke U.S. progressive.
Yeah I draw a hard line at grammatical rules being racist
cause knowing correct grammar etc is a privilege of going to school etc etc, well at least this was clear to me a decade ago in latin america... it's not racism or sexism more like classist
@@velvetbikini No. It's about reading a book or two. Simple.
@@saltycrunch IKR. I don’t know what happened to this channel. It was superb and I would even share videos with my friends on analysis of Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, and Game of Thrones.
Now I would be embarrassed to share the content of this channel. Everything is woke to the point that it looks like a journalist from Huffington Post wrote it. The bias is laughable at how obvious it is. Interesting how the ladies had nothing to say about the toxic characteristics of Rachel.
...no, consistent rules of grammar are not “racist” or “classist.” The whole point is so that we know what someone else means when they write something. I’m not saying you need to be a grammar Nazi or anything, but let’s not act like schools should be teaching kids to “just spell things however you want”
People obviously understand when "your" and you're" are being confused because HOW ELSE DID YOU MANAGE TO CORRECT IT IF NOT
I think it's racist the way you spelled "obviously." I think it shouldn't have a "b" or a "u." It's confusing. Please stop.
Nobody's saying that. You've created a straw man. In this context they're specifically talking about prescriptivism and being a 'grammar nazi'.
As a non native english speaker me and my friends constantly check each other's grammar for school papers and we learn from that.
They weren't 🤦♀️
Last time I was this early Ross was unproblematic
just kidding I’ve never been this early 😂
omg I'm dying!!
I completely disagree with Phoebe’s toxic take. She is an incredibly kind and selfless character and feels like the only one with depth. Without her I think the show would be really flat and boring. I think a better takeaway for her would be that life challenges don’t have to break your spirit.
Except she is cruel to her friends for no reason, tries to break up chandler and Monica for no reason, keeps bullying Ross despite him dong kind things like buy her a cycle just because he didn't have any. She is as flawed as the others and can be cruel to those except Joey who she had a crush on
With ross. He fell in love with a girl in school and got married and found out she was cheating on him, divorced him and took the home and all his stuff. Ross is damaged and has trust issues. Wouldnt you if you were in his situation
And while he does have flaws so what ?
Humans have flaws
The toxic elements are good as its realistic
Yeah I never got the Ross hate. I like all the Friends. I grew up with them. As was analyzed in a episode the break up with Carol messed him up. In the what if episode and flashback you can see how trusting he was
Realistic or not, Ross is very toxic still and he never got help.
Granted, Rachel is ALSO very toxic.
@@Vanessinha91Pucca hes not toxic hes a human being. While he argued with ppl did he ever hurt anyone ?
@@mrbushido56 Since when be a human is not being toxic? Man kind is dirt and low. HE is VERY toxic and everyone in this planet get hurt. Only some become toxic.
@@Vanessinha91Pucca Both Chandler and Joey were more toxic than Ross. It’s just that Ross was considered the boring Friend, and that’s why people are less forgiving of his flaws.
I like that Friends is still popular on new generations. I don't agree with what you said about grammar. There are rules of speaking correctly. I learned English as a second language when I was a child and I was taught the importance of speaking correctly.
As long as people can understand what you mean, it's honestly fine. Prescriptivism is boring.
I know that for people who learn English as a foreign language, for example, there's unfortunately another layer to it, where they're more likely to be picked up on 'mistakes'. And that's crappy.
Those rules were chosen very arbitrarily, by people who lived thousands of years ago and just happened to be in the position to set them--and with English in particular, this resulted in an unintuitive Frankenstein's monster of a language. Language is a tool for the living, and the most important thing is that we can understand one another now.
My thoughts exactly! I too learned English as a second language and it bothers me when someone doesn’t speak it correctly.
Amen!! Knowing the difference between “you’re” and “your” is not racist and to claim it is is just a cop out for not having paid attention in school.
@Juan Pablo Gonzalez Most people who speak english probably do. What does that question have to do with my comment?
the reason why i liked joey the most was because of that bag episode. everyone was making fun of him for it but he didn't care because really liked the purse. he even learned to dance with mr. treeger!!! i know his character has many flaws but he broke quite a lot of gender norms in the show which i love!!
0:00 Introduction
2:04 Skillshare
2:24 Don't get married until you're ready
5:53 Casual misogyny, rigid gender roles
6:55 Toxic Chandler: A gay joke factory
8:04 Toxic Joey: Women aren't people
9:25 Toxic Ross: Main character syndrome
11:04 The power of friendship (regardless of gender)
12:22 Toxic Monica: Rampant fatphobia
13:27 Date people you actually like
14:34 Not the real New York City
15:58 Class divides us
17:05 Anyone can experience homelessness, even your friend
17:36 Toxic Phoebe: Phoebe doesn't understand what being good person is
18:38 You gotta have friends
please do a video like this on how i met your mother. the show has so many good messages about life and relationships and while it also has a lot of toxic messages, it's so good
I have a love/hate relationship with friends
Me too, while elements still hold up now, others are still awkward to watch.
Me too
I can't watch it after season 8.
PLEASEEEE DO a video on how Jake Peralta is an actual "nice guy" 🥺❤️
Awww! Yeah! I second this 🥺
Or how creepy Boyle is.
@@abigailsalmanac yayyyy
@@MissAlii432 hahahah he definitely was kinda creepy
@Ameya NK yayy I hope they do one on this!
Correcting someone on grammer is classist? My word are people sensitive! My sister used to do this to me all the time! You know why she did? Because i got it wrong! Was it a bit annoying? Yes but was it classist? Nope!
I doubt class / race has something to do with it. However , it does diminish a person's confidence if you correct them in front of others. That should be avoided :-)
My word. are racists sensitive about having their racism pointed out!
@@ThrottleKitty it’s grammar wtf 🤨
@@matthewrickard5050 Just like banning black hair styles is "just hair" ... huh? Google "systemic racism", a thousand tiny things are used to discriminate against PoC
@@ThrottleKitty WTF recognizing the difference between your & you're is not the same as banning black hair styles.
Could you guys do a video on Scrubs? The show is similar to Friends in that it's about the personal and professional lives of a group of friends as they make their way through their 20s. But it avoids a lot of criticisms you can level against friends, specifically, the diversity of the main cast. And the format and comedy style was way ahead of its time.
The style of Scrubs is great! And there are some interesting conversations about sexism, racism and such, a really nice show imo
@@willbyers_clizzy Oooh and body image discussions too
Man that's so true. ❤️ Love from a fellow indian
This show will always have a special place in my heart.
No one can argue that certain aspects of Friends have not aged well, however, in my experience, all those aspects were called out in the show as well... It is self-aware in most cases and for others, one has to take the general social consciousness of the time when it was made...
I found this post on Tumblr and thought it can be applied to this show: *"This representation was groundbreaking for the time and a lot of people liked it” and “This may have aged poorly and many modern audiences from the group don’t feel represented by it and are bothered by aspects of it” are not mutually exclusive*
With all its flaws, I still can't get enough of Friends! It's probably as much all the pretty colors as anything 😂
The show is saying fat monica doesn't deserve love because of her weight. The show pairs Chandler and fat Monica together because he is a loving person and isn't forced into by some stupid sitcom situation. Pick one
When did it ever say that? I thought the whole point of her weight was to show how insecure she was, and she was able to gain the confidence to become fit. If anything, it showed how her parents neglected her in Ross’s favor, and therefore led to her overeating.
@@gabethyrubenstein7984 timestamp 13:00 . They may 100% be the case but that's not how the Take presents it.
Disagreeing with someone's lifestyle choices doesn't mean you have a irrashional, extreme fear of them. People need to stop using the phobia word so casually
In the show we see that Ross is ULTRA jealous and toxic for Rachel (which of course its bad.) But in one episode it is revealed that all of this is because he was left with trauma from his marriage to Carol, and that before that he was a very calm guy. Not trying to justify but I did feel bad for him after that episode.
I prefer How I Met Your Mother but this video makes me want to revisit Friends for the progress it has made and how that was huge when it premiered (which was when I was too young to really appreciate the cultural strides). And I DO appreciate you acknowledging that us women can be friend zoned (i.e., experience unrequited love).
Having said that, Ross has every right to educate people on the difference between you’re and your. It’s not some kind of racial activism to use contractions incorrectly.
Ik. The take is overreacting. Correcting someone's grammar could be annoying, but racist???? Not really
@@dinakisa1049 this channel used to be objective when it started but it turned into the mainstream woke shit everyone is sick of now.
"Correct" grammar absolutely connects with racism tho. Lower income families (largely families of color) often have less access to good education or leave school early to help support their families. Not to mention differences like ask/axe which is cultural and has nothing to do with the intelligence of the person.
Why do I get the feeling the narrator really has it out for Ross?
She relates w rachel
@@theruderaw6541 haha. Yes, it's gotta be that.
@@theruderaw6541 Yeah like Rachel is some saint who deserves the world
10:46 Did I just here that having proper grammar is racist now... wtf?!
If you judge people as lesser because of how they speak and not what they're saying, yeah.
Is this a hilarious joke or equally hilarious unintentional irony? Either way I laughed.
"Friends" is one of the most influential sitcoms of the '90s.
So Grammar is Racist NOW??
I have truly seen everything.
Think about it for a minute will ya
Thought about it. Still sounds ridiculous.
@@siasans7116 same lol. People are just making excuses for falling asleep in 5th grade.
Having a standard set of grammar rules for clarity in writing is totally fair. Believing said standard is the only "good" English and enforcing "proper" grammar in casual spaces is elitist, and by extension, racist. If you understood what someone said, then the purpose of language is served. If you correct them, even though you understood, you are telling them their dialect is wrong and yours is right. Dialects used by low-class people, like AAVE and Appalachian, get labeled often as "bad english," which of course is racist. Why is our way of speaking better than theirs?
The your/you're comment is not a good example of what I'm talking about, as Rachel is speaking in Standard American English. But Ross only says that to say he is smarter than her, and hopefully you can see how that's a little elitist.
@@happydinosaur5278 there's nothing wrong with elitism.
let’s be honest Monica would have an eating disorder with that level of toxicity
Are you effing kidding me?! Correct grammar is racist and classist? The Take has officially jumped the shark!
It is a way to gatekeep people with little education, of different races or backgrounds, or different regions. Imagine how many capable people were never taken seriously because they sounded "country" (a Dear Prudence where the OP wrote in to complain of a co worker saying "warsh" instead of "wash"
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 That may be one way to look at it. It may also be true that some people love the English language and realize that if we throw out all the standards of grammar and spelling, we will end up lowering our ability to communicate effectively. All you need to do is read the average comment section for proof.
@@jessicavictoriacarrillo7254 English is my second language, why did I study so hard when I could've just played the race card.
Correcting other's grammar is classist and racist now???? Well damn I'm not a native English speaker and even I know the difference between your and you're.
The world has gone mad
Ikr? People are too sensitive nowadays
No, the point is that different communities develop different nuances to language and acceptance of only one of these as correct by default can be discriminatory
@@jotoenatehaaen are we supossed to know everyone's backgrounds and scholarity level? What's so wrong abot correcting it? No English dictionary, as far as I know, states your is as correct as you're. Correcting gramatical errors isn't racist lmao but in fact helpful
@@danette26 correcting *grammatical errors isn't racist but to judge them on the basis of this error is.
Could you two do a video about Malcolm in the Middle? I feel like it’s such a smart, quirky and unique show that’s held up really well, but I’d love to see your take on it.
I would love to see that!
I second that! Would love to watch a take for Malcolm in the middle. It still is kinda of a big deal in Latin America, a ‘Friends’ type of thing but for working class folks.
Am i the only one sick of Friends being overanalyzed to death?
No. How many times can we get told that parts of a nearly 30 year old sitcom haven't aged well? At least in this one they gave it some credit.
And crying because its too white but Prince of Bel Air is not too black
Well, if we're gonna watch the same series for three decades, we should probably analyze the characters and plotlines! But flawed characters will always be far more relatable than unrealistically "good" ones. We don't need parables. Phoebe trying to live with herself and finding out that the system isn't set up to let her be ethical in life - that's ALL of us who do our best... She wouldn't be much of a character if she was just portrayed as magically, impossibly ethical in every form of consumption ever.
I hate how old shows are criticised for being dated! Of course they’re dated, they’re old🙄 Things change. Look at movies from the 1940s etc, we don’t expect them to have the same outlook as today or have to apologise for it. It’s just the way life is - we learn, we move on.
This video actively talked down about using correct spelling, and grammar. Making the false claim that the spelling and grammar have some kind of link to your race, or socioeconomic situations. Which is actually anti-intellectualism.
The fact that you're able to read this is all the proof you need.
I think most of the problems with Friends come from being a comedy. When a plot line is closer to drama they tried to be progressive. But they put that aside for a few laughs every time. Even with Chandler's dad, I think they tried to be inclusive, unless they could laugh at it. Also in this case I think they were a bit clumsy, but I honestly think they had good intentions. With Ros, I think it got out of hand because they needed to make him break up with Rachel, and they did it through his flaws. To be fair, she does break up with him for many years. Also, when are we going to be ready as a society to admit that girl from the Xerox place took advantage of Ross?
Ross is a character that i don't like just like all the people ( David Schwimmer is the reason why i like him a little bit ) , but someone tell him if he stayed with Julie in season 2 he would have avoided :
1° a toxic relationship with Rachel
2° 2 divorces
3° ( and most important of all ) : the huge hatred that fans feel for him
The homophobia thing I am with it, because some people should exist naturally not changing themselves through surgery
The take : another toxic takeaway video about friends
Me : well why not!
Same and I haven't even watched Friends
@@firiel2366 Here's an idea, watch it, before you judge it.
I really like this video about this subject. I have seen plenty youtube video's about Friends both extremely loving it and extremely criticizing it and I really like how this video manages to express both. Personally I love the show and I think it has so many great moments and messages but undeniably it is also very wrong at times and has so many toxic moments that I keep cringing at. I have deep respect for this video trying to capture both sides of that story in a nuanced way. And while I feel like, with 21:27 of runtime, it only scratched the surface of both the good and bad takes that are in Friends. I hope this video helps the large amount of people who still watch this show to look at through the lens of time, enjoy and cherish what is great but also be critical about it and talk about what is problematic. In a way, we as viewers might all see ourselves as additional friends who have the ability to say: "well, I really don't like what you said there." and keep the important conversations about these topics going.
The men in the show often were given lessons on masculinity which pointed out how rigid society was and still is regarding gender traits.
The true takeaway of Friends is that they are showing a realistic grey world. All the characters are morally grey and have various flaws, bias and bigotry. Many times they learn from it and become better and some time they never do. But that's life and everyone is like that.
What I felt from this show that no one is perfect despite of trying to be a good person and that's why all this positivity and toxicness looks real to me cause friends are like that,they aren't always spreading positive messages and are sometimes purely toxic even when they think they are right.
I’m all for fat phobia. Fatness is a terrible thing. I highly despise them too. No one should be fat.
These guys have helped me tremendously through the many confinements I've had while living in Quebec: they too have been cooped up for 10 seasons either in the café or in Monica's apartment. They had nothing to envy.
This may be a controversial take, but I think that all of the backlash towards Ross is actually sign of an increasing inability to accept moral fallibility - which is a very real part of being human. We have come to expect perfection of everyone around us, and we no longer know the difference between disliking a trait and disliking the person who displays that trait. Ross is childish and flawed in a lot of ways. He's also a good friend and a caring boyfriend (most of the time). And there's a reason that he is the way he is. I still like Ross, and I still like him and Rachel together. And watching a show full of politically correct, always morally superior characters would be extremely boring.
@@thatqueenG I 100% agree with you, but I was not commenting on the show as a whole. Just the trend of labelling Ross as a toxic or bad character. I think some of the critique is completely fair, but overall the analysis og his character is a little one sided. The lack of diversity is a completely seperate discussion :)
I think Ross could have been an excellent character if he showed a little bit of growth. Like the babysitter episode. It's quoted a lot to show Ross being sexist thinking that male nannies shouldn't exist. But by the end of the episode it's sort of shown that the only one that has a problem is Ross and that's something he had to overcome. You can have problematic characters. Basically all of us in real are to some degree. Showing growth is what really helps characters shine
i agree, ross just genuinely had problems and mostly wasn’t able to see that, the man really needed therapy
Love this format!! It’s be great to see more “mixed messages”
I don't really see anything wrong, it was a different time. And as for all the character flaws... well, without them we wouldn't have a show, every show, even a comedy needs conflict.
Not sure why characters have to be perfect, flawless characters.
@@kclink1579 exactly. All those awesome scenes where a character usually calls out another character for being an asshole that always gets applause.... Wouldn't be possible if the person wasn't an asshole to begin with.
Yea agree it was over 20 years ago you can’t really put today’s standards on then because society and the world has changed so much. What was considered normal even 10 years ago we wouldn’t do now we are more inclusive to all cultures. Why can’t the take just enjoy a show without picking it apart every 5 seconds.
this is why they are so popular because they were not perfect they were just people.
The mix of Good and Bad made it more realistic and relatable.
Your point about grammar is the most insane thing I’ve ever heard.
If friends premiered today it probably won't be as successful it was
The big bang was even worst and that was popular
That's probably true, the whole premise of "Twenty something pals experience life and love together" was a novelty at the time, but since so many shows are copying its formula, it doesn't feel as fresh anymore.
It would. I don't know where the idea just because people are becoming more aware, we're gonna cancel everything we don't like and act like South Park, and the Boondocks weren't and are still running.
that's only because it's not funny
I think it's the nostalgia factor that makes it as popular as it is. If it were the same show set in the present day, I don't think it would've been nearly as hyped.