2:22 "What frustrates me about Jiren is that being a superhero himself, he could've been a fun, in-universe version of the popular 'Goku vs. Superman' / 'Goku vs. Saitama' matchup" SO TRUE!!!
Its really sad that dragon ball has ditched the afventure aspect of the story. Dragon ball has 3 types of stories: battle centric, adventure, and tournaments. Its really sad that adventure has been left behind.
It's true there hasn't been a good exploration/adventure story for decades now, I think Toriyama said once all the cast learnt how to fly there was no longer a point for him to flesh out the worlds beneath them
@@Grosvenor77 nah they didn’t hate the adventure they just hated that it was done badly. Super 17 was all battle and that’s regarded worse than the black star arc
@@sidecharacter3193The issue with the BSDB Arc in GT was the slow pacing. The adventure was cool, but it was too dragged out. It was a good stepping stone for the Baby Arc, however.
I would honestly would’ve loved and found it a lot more interested if Granola survived an attack from Vegeta Nappa and Raditz. It would of made the stakes way higher and we as a reader would be conflicted because we love Vegeta, but we have to remember what he was before bulma. Vegeta was already feeling regretful and he could be trying to explain himself but still can’t keep focus. Vegeta can still unlock ultra ego but when he starts to win the fight, he scares Granolah reminding him of how he killed so many ceralians in the past. Vegeta can then lose because he realizes that ultra ego is him tapping into his old nature and he feels ashamed for that. I think it’s way too deep for a dragon ball story tho but I still think it’s a missed opportunity
That's actually a really cool idea! From the decades Vegeta spent terrorising planets under Freeza's orders and for his own enjoyment we haven't seen Vegeta face any direct backlash from that era of his life. Giving himself and Granolah that more personal connection would've been a great touch.
With the whole lifespan thing, Gas was shown aging rapidly, which implies the more they use their power, the faster their life accelerates. Similar to how Goku fought Majin Buu. He was given a day on earth, but he burned it all up by going Super Saiyan 3. They could have at least done the same with Granola, but guess not..
Might be a Gas exclusive though, weirdly enough. Only happened with him, with the wish was even being described as curse to remain the strongest in the universe, and we can even see that damage accelerated it too (most notably when Frieza kills him, at which point he decays completely, first into a skeleton, and then into dust, rather than either staying the same when killed or turning to dust _before_ getting hit), since of course that's something that would weaken him as well. With the whole thing about Granolah not remaining the strongest, really didn't seem like he had it. Seeing as that wish grants people new techniques as collateral, as well as the fact Granolah was already a being present in the universe affected by the wish, I assume that's what resulted into Gas's version being a better (but kinda worse) version of it, and it's the same wish but more extreme. That whole situation also makes me imagine that if Frieza was back by the time Gas became the strongest, he might either turn into his old version or die right away. The fact that his wish kept reapplying itself though probably only killed him due to it compensating for damage and exhaustion, and he would surely not have died after a wish to be stronger than Frieza. Probably.
Gas and granolas wishes side effects are different. With gas he rapidly ages to stay the strongest until he's dead. With granola he has to lose 150 years from his lifespan with only having 3 left (which means cerealians can live for 190+ years probably)
they did. Gas just burned up more of his lifespan than granolah because he used a lot more power. they hinted to this because after he used his last attack on gas, he started coughing up blood showing his body was slowly breaking. But gas was by himself the whole time(and being forced by his brother) so obviously had to burn more of his life away.
I would take this version of Granolah you made anyday as it carries more tension and weight without devaluing the ultra ego form making it lose on its first appearance. Short and to the point. The heeters could have been a natural continuation after the story with their plans to rule the universe.
Thanks bro! It all went so wrong for Granola, what a waste of a character, even now in the manga he's been knocked out for chapters and is still a side character in his own story. A Heeters and Freeza team up to defeat the saiyans and Granola while making plans to double cross each other actually sounds like a cool idea!
Holy crap, they really did mess this up... Granola should start out kind-of scrawny and frail looking and then getting the power-up should make him bulk up, right? So there'd be this big difference in how he looks. And then he could suddenly feel really detached and worn out, like maybe the power up left him tired and jaded from the physical and mental toll on his body. He could fly off to the Heaters, immediately wreck all of them, and people are freaking out, right? Like he's become this unstoppable force of nature and he's determined to get revenge at any cost. But then the other guy's like "We don't know where Frieza is-!" and Granola is like "... Fine... then we need to start looking now." and he takes over on the spot. Maybe he even gets like a cloak or something to further showcase how much he's changed and how in-charge he is now. This is the first time in his life that he's had a clear purpose that he can achieve and he FEELS that! We get a timeskip going. Two years have passed. And NOW it's like "Well crap, that time limit is catching up!" Granola is starting to get desperate, right? He only has a matter of months to find Frieza, and he can feel the pressure. We start to see it get to Granola as he snaps at his former comrades for minor mistakes and starts openly killing anyone who gets in his way. Maybe at some point he even blows up a planet for intel, becoming the thing he's always hated, but at this point he doesn't care. He's got too little time left to worry about anything other than his goal. They get to the heroes, we fight and have all the action stuff, plot happens, and then after being defeated, his time limit starts actually effecting him. He dies in desperate agony as his former comrades walk away, leaving him miserable and alone. This twisted husk of a man driven to despair by his own obsession with revenge in a cold, uncaring, universe where he had to cheat to get the power to do what he wants. Toriyama basically handed them a great villain arc on a silver platter and they just failed to execute on every level.
That's exactly how I'd hope his arc to be! A cautionary tale about revenge, the downfall it leads to, and Granolah realizing all too late he became exactly what he sought to destroy: a monster. It would have been tragic and interesting, also making the protagonists reflect about it.
I agree with most of this. I don't think the whole Heater plotline should be discarded. Makes the arc feel short if it's just Buildup into Granolah fight. And I think the discarding of OATS (I think that's what it was called) should happen during the fight with UE Vegeta, Granolah being annoyed by it trying to talk him down instead of helping and believing his new power is all he needs, only to still lose.
Dbz just wasn’t THAT good. You only remember the peaks of the series. You don’t remember all the pointless filler, or the character moments that fell flat. You don’t remember how many of the power ups simply come out of nowhere. And you don’t remember how one of Vegetas greatest character moments, where he sacrifices himself to defeat Majin Buu, is followed IMMEIMMEDIATELY by Buu regenerating and being totally fine in the very next episode.
if only you’d open your eyes to see how much better that actual arc was than this fan fic shit💀 he literally said granolah had days to live when it was years, and that the heeters knew where frieza was when they had no idea.
This entire tier list is based on Piccolo's statement about Gamma 1 and 2 being on par with G/V, meanwhile Piccolo CANNOT sense God Ki AND Gamma 1 and 2 are Androids meaning they can't be sensed. The only scale Piccolo could have for Goku and Vegeta is SSJ3/SSJ2.
Most fan-fict content etc is garbage and misses the tone and point of db entirely. But I really enjoy the nuance proposed to a bounty-hunter, 7 db’s, character progression plot for granola. Kind of makes the release seem squandered. Perhaps the anime, which is usually much worse than the manga, can borrow this idea and expand.
this idea is terrible. He didn’t even get details right like the heeters knowing where frieza was or granolah having days instead of years to live. The manga was great and all the anime needs to do is adapt it properly.
@@leultrainstinct406 I’m not gonna comment on the “video bad” take but, The manga wasn’t good. Maybe Moro was kind of but it’s a disappointment, only thing good with Moro was Mui and only thing good with granolah was UE. Also, you should’ve known toei doesn’t care for the manga. The Anime I’m pretty sure came earlier
i think you should have still included the flashback along side with the heeters and black freiza but keep the chnage with vegeta winning, granolah storming the galatic patrol hq, and granolah finding 7 instaed of 2 dragon balls
I think the wish should've been 3 weeks to live and Everytime someone gets a power boost, like Vegeta's ultra ego, he gets stronger. Wich takes more time away, cutting him down to 30 minutes by the time black Frieza comes around
The second ball should've been our adventure time with Granola. After bonding with him, and more lore dump with the pre destroyed Planet Vegeta Saiyans, and activating the new dragon, he first wishes to kill Freeza, but the dragon Earth that revived him was too powerful to be killed by the 2 ball dragon. Thus Granola learns about Planet Earth, and the more powerful wishes. Then the 3 day powerup happens like the video describes. Now he has motivation to go to Earth. To wish to keep the god power but without the time limit.
I agree with a lot of your takes, though vegeta beating granola would be a horrible change. This isn’t the topic of this video, though I feel super should’ve featured Goku and other characters in db, not just Vegeta. Just like they did before the tournament of power. If Goku and piccolo came to the planet, it would’ve disarmed granola and cut out the unneeded saiyan vs granola fight. Edit: which could’ve been used to show more of Granola’s back story and expended the db universe. Showing what it’s like for non powerful characters outside of earth.
It wouldn’t really be a horrible change imo. Vegeta achieved UE by letting go of his past, but Granolah couldn’t let go, so it makes sense for Vegeta to beat him
I feel like giving Granolah a month would work more than a few days, as that allows everything after the wish to be able to be fleshed out somewhat without being too rushed. With just days, it's highly unlikely from a logical standpoint that Granolah could even find Frieza in the alloted time he's given.
I’d still keep the dragons down to 2 as I feel it would fit the 3 days to live cost far better than the usual set of 7. Just make the half harder to find.
yeah the fact with the Cerulian Dragon needs something in exchange compared to the Earth and Namek Dragon who don't need this. is a neat trade off. like yeah they are easy to collect, but is the thing you need to exchange for your wish worth it?
Honestly i will not have problem with Bardock in a Flashback and saving Granola but my problem is how overpower and the wish that Bardock did like does not make senses at all and is way overbook but overall great job way better that we got they only focus themselfs on fan service with Bardock and make Bardock and Goku story even worst to understand.
Isnt granolah not the actual villain of the arc? Hes more like the lead up and fake out for the true villain manipulating everyone, Gas and the heaters
I think his hair getting long is a reference to him aging. His hair would likely be that long if he aged whatever the amount of lifespan was used to give him that power
I have to say... your version of Granola is exaggerated evil. It's a good idea to make him lose his humanity while searching for the dragonball but i would keep the feeling of regret for those actions for his entire existence, maybe with a final redemption moments before he dies for the lack of time
Granola was one dimensional and a limited personality that never grew or learned from the past. Boring asf too. Everything was "RAAAAHHH, TEMPER TANTRUM."
Simplification : Combine Granola and Gas into one character. Have Granola be announced as Bardock's son and Goku's half brother, Frieza arrives and kills him the same way he kills Gas! Frieza leaves the audience and Goku thoroughly antagonized.
Honestly a good theme for the battle following your changes would be Granolah getting impatient and just feeling entitled to the saiyans dying to him just because he wished to be the strongest, and he needs to hurry up and go kill Frieza But the tide of battle slowly turns against him and the reality dawns on him than Goku and Vegeta get stronger as they battle and are going to eventually surpass and beat him
The problem with the dragon ball super drawn by Toyotarou, is that every single panel is a rehash of a prior event, because every one of them has to have the thumbs up from Toriyama or get redrawn over and over again, it's why moro ended up being a cell clone. Toyotarou didn't want to take the risk of redoing his work.
Love what you did but I would have kept the heaters gang in more . After being bitched by granola let them interrogate oatmeal for his info on the dragon balls , they use it to get gas to be the strongest and after granola is beaten by vegeta , have him ,goku , and granola defeat gas . After gas is defeated have frieza return sensing this massive battle happening , in which he kills elek and defeats granola , goku, and vegeta . This gives a reason for granola to return in the story to help stop frieza
I was really sad hearing the Granola Arc was a flop, he looked cool and I was anticipating some hopefully good content. But at least we have fans to provide different ideas.
This was what made me give up on dragonball. Just so lazy and dumb. It was like if Charlie from it's always sunny in philly huffed way too much glue and wrote some fanfiction.
i didn’t watch this video i’m basing this comment off the title alone (i do watch this guys other stuff) but i don’t think the way to fix the arc is by making granola evil, i in fact really like that he’s not pure evil and they mainly start fighting because of a misunderstanding. just my opinion tho👍
So you would change the whole point of having a fight for the sake of without any stake 😂 all the clash of dbz from great demon piccolo on up untill granolah (except for Majin vegeta vs goku) was a "universe level threat to destroy" to save people, granolah arc isn't about stakes and investment but tries to be about accepting the sayan nature of fighting for the sake of and becoming stronger with that. Granolah arc was bad but to fix it you have to recognize and improve on the concept, not to change the entire concept otherwise you can just say "let's skip this arc"
For an in universe goku vs superman, Jiren would've had to be extremely weak and get one shotted by base goku. This definitely is an in universe goku vs saitama
The build up was granaloh and the sayians finally coming face to face The tension was granaloh believing the sayians where the enemy so he was finally able to get get back for who he thought was responsible The substance was granaloh finally realizing and finding out that a sayian is the reason he survived to see another day and was tricked into the whole situation And the resolution fighting alongside the same sayians he deemed as the enemy to stop the actual threat once learning the truth granaloh was never the antagonist he was the protagonist of his own story where it could be looked at as goku and vegeta where the antagonist to his story til he find out the truth
The thing you misunderstand is that Granolah wasn't meant to be the main antoagonist. He was meant to be an arc main character. He fails at this, too, obviously. And a lot of your changes work either way, but the Heaters were always meant to be the main antagonists of this arc, Granolah was supposed to be a good guy.
I like this version but having granola be the only person that actually says anything on the encounter makes 0 sense and this may not work with toyrama and toyatoro future plans for bardock or Frieza or Goku and completely removed Goku which is fine if Goku still got to remember bardock I do genuinely like the new bardock it's an interesting idea but worse then the non canon one
I do appreciate you coming with alternatives instead of just complaints. More people should do that. I do however Not like your portrayal of Granolah at all because it goes against who he is supposed to be. Almost stopped the video when you said he destroyed part of the Galactic Patrol. Granolah is actually a goodish guy and im fine with that, not everyone needs to be so edgy. I kinda like the idea of Elec manipulating everything, id kinda lean into that more if anything. This is Granolah the survivor arc he should be the PROTAGONIST, let the Heeters be the true antagonists. I think thats where my disconnect is with you. I do agree with Granolah searching for 7 dbs instead of 2 and his lifespan being way shorter tho!
I am gonna be honest i thought moro was based off tirek from my little pony I also think it wouldve been funny if he had a stronger relationship with elic which caused gas to be jealous and ON HIS OWN choose to keep burning thru his life to kill grannolah
I think Toriyama just suffered with burnout during Z and he was done with the overblown story of Dragon ball,he lost his passion for the Story ans that can be seen in his other works Which are much more grounded and have the most Satisfying Stories such as Sandland the Manga a true Master piece and now Daima a project he was so interested in because it went back to what he initially liked The grounded Adventure based story that just takes a break from beg explosions
While I haven't watched Dragon Ball Super, so I could be wrong about this, I think a missed opportunity for Jiren that could've made him be a more interesting character, alongside making him a reference to the Goku vs Superman/Saitama debate, would've been to make him a more direct foil to Goku in terms of what they believe in. It could be put that because in his universe Jiren is a superhero, he's spent most of his life fighting for the greater good of others, and constantly putting his life on the line for the fate of his world/dimension. When he meets Goku, combined with a dislike of him for supposedly instigating the Tournament of Power, he could also be shown to grow a further dislike of him due to his tendency to prioritize fighting as a sport even if the stakes are really high, which could also serve to acknowledge criticisms made to how Super Goku was reduced to a meathead who's character's been boiled down to, "likes to fight people." In their interactions, it could be repeatedly emphasized how Goku and Jiren differ in that one man likes to fight because he enjoys it, while the other fights for the greater good, and maybe during their interactions Jiren could give Goku a few humbling words of wisdom about the importance of fighting for what's right, and the whole time they'd battle each other, he'd remain portrayed as a hero fighting to save his universe as opposed to the generic Might Makes Right villain it sounds like he was reduced to near the end. By the time their fight reaches a climax, Goku has come to understand Jiren's words and builds a respect for him. By the time their fight is finished, Goku has come to the conclusion that while he still enjoys fighting for fun, there are some times where he has to prioritize the fates of others over the mere sport of the battle, with him going through the rest of the tournament of power giving it his all, fighting to save his universe. Maybe even after defeating Jiren, he'd show no joy in this victory compared to other fights out of the knowledge that he's just doomed his universe, and chooses to honor him by planning to wish his universe back into existence if he manages to win in the end. Again, I could be wrong about Jiren and he might be a more interesting character than I've heard, but if he really was that much of a wasted character in the series, then I think this could've been a good way to add more depth to him, as well as have him exist to help further Goku's character development, with Jiren functioning at the same time both as Goku's enemy and as a sort of mentor to him.
What coulda been cool os if the Red Ribbon Army and Heeters teamed up so Cell Max and the Gammas were so strong because the heeters sold a copy of 73's data. Also have the Heeters introduced un the Moro arc with Gas not participating in the fight until he sees Goku and then when they get away instead of joining Moro he says he's going home.
2:22 "What frustrates me about Jiren is that being a superhero himself, he could've been a fun, in-universe version of the popular 'Goku vs. Superman' / 'Goku vs. Saitama' matchup"
SO TRUE!!!
Its really sad that dragon ball has ditched the afventure aspect of the story. Dragon ball has 3 types of stories: battle centric, adventure, and tournaments. Its really sad that adventure has been left behind.
It's true there hasn't been a good exploration/adventure story for decades now, I think Toriyama said once all the cast learnt how to fly there was no longer a point for him to flesh out the worlds beneath them
They tried that with GT and people hated that part, but loved the battle parts.
@@Grosvenor77 exactly
@@Grosvenor77 nah they didn’t hate the adventure they just hated that it was done badly.
Super 17 was all battle and that’s regarded worse than the black star arc
@@sidecharacter3193The issue with the BSDB Arc in GT was the slow pacing. The adventure was cool, but it was too dragged out. It was a good stepping stone for the Baby Arc, however.
I would honestly would’ve loved and found it a lot more interested if Granola survived an attack from Vegeta Nappa and Raditz. It would of made the stakes way higher and we as a reader would be conflicted because we love Vegeta, but we have to remember what he was before bulma. Vegeta was already feeling regretful and he could be trying to explain himself but still can’t keep focus. Vegeta can still unlock ultra ego but when he starts to win the fight, he scares Granolah reminding him of how he killed so many ceralians in the past. Vegeta can then lose because he realizes that ultra ego is him tapping into his old nature and he feels ashamed for that. I think it’s way too deep for a dragon ball story tho but I still think it’s a missed opportunity
That's actually a really cool idea! From the decades Vegeta spent terrorising planets under Freeza's orders and for his own enjoyment we haven't seen Vegeta face any direct backlash from that era of his life. Giving himself and Granolah that more personal connection would've been a great touch.
Made me sad knowing that’s not how it is, great idea homie
Reading this comment was more exciting than that entire arc and it's sad as a die hard fan who grew up on the original run.
Good writing is too deep for Dragonball😂. It's a shame this franchise gets by on surface level writing and hype moments that are mediocrely animated
Thats to high level for Toyotaro 😂
With the whole lifespan thing, Gas was shown aging rapidly, which implies the more they use their power, the faster their life accelerates. Similar to how Goku fought Majin Buu. He was given a day on earth, but he burned it all up by going Super Saiyan 3. They could have at least done the same with Granola, but guess not..
Might be a Gas exclusive though, weirdly enough. Only happened with him, with the wish was even being described as curse to remain the strongest in the universe, and we can even see that damage accelerated it too (most notably when Frieza kills him, at which point he decays completely, first into a skeleton, and then into dust, rather than either staying the same when killed or turning to dust _before_ getting hit), since of course that's something that would weaken him as well. With the whole thing about Granolah not remaining the strongest, really didn't seem like he had it. Seeing as that wish grants people new techniques as collateral, as well as the fact Granolah was already a being present in the universe affected by the wish, I assume that's what resulted into Gas's version being a better (but kinda worse) version of it, and it's the same wish but more extreme.
That whole situation also makes me imagine that if Frieza was back by the time Gas became the strongest, he might either turn into his old version or die right away. The fact that his wish kept reapplying itself though probably only killed him due to it compensating for damage and exhaustion, and he would surely not have died after a wish to be stronger than Frieza. Probably.
They must have plans for Granolah’s character in a future arc.
Gas and granolas wishes side effects are different. With gas he rapidly ages to stay the strongest until he's dead. With granola he has to lose 150 years from his lifespan with only having 3 left (which means cerealians can live for 190+ years probably)
they did. Gas just burned up more of his lifespan than granolah because he used a lot more power. they hinted to this because after he used his last attack on gas, he started coughing up blood showing his body was slowly breaking. But gas was by himself the whole time(and being forced by his brother) so obviously had to burn more of his life away.
Gas feels so pointless after this video. I'd dump him in an animated adaptation.
if this arc get adapted in to an anime I'm praying and begging they would fix the story. Granola is such a cool designed character
I still say Super was started too soon. Torney of power should've been a movie
I do really like the idea of a survivor of a saiyan massacre.
Yeah, the idea for Granolah is a really solid one, it's just a shame its execution was lacking
Super Baby? 😳
Isn’t that what baby is?
bro this idea is more worn out than your mom
@101mrcrazyman and your attitude is as unwanted as you
I just realized that granola kind of resembles a jak and daxter character.
Oh yeah he kinda does! I loved Jak and Daxter 2 as a kid lol
I thought this from his introduction. Hair, goggles and all. Imagine they get jaks voice for granolah
So many people disagree with this statement, but I couldn’t agree more!
“They remind me of my disappointing son”
Bro 💀
I would take this version of Granolah you made anyday as it carries more tension and weight without devaluing the ultra ego form making it lose on its first appearance. Short and to the point.
The heeters could have been a natural continuation after the story with their plans to rule the universe.
Thanks bro! It all went so wrong for Granola, what a waste of a character, even now in the manga he's been knocked out for chapters and is still a side character in his own story.
A Heeters and Freeza team up to defeat the saiyans and Granola while making plans to double cross each other actually sounds like a cool idea!
I can't say this enough this video is underrated and deserves more views
Thanks, that means a lot to me! Hopefully as my channel grows, more people find and watch this video 🔥
Not just the video. His whole channel
You know this was more fun than the real granola arc
Holy crap, they really did mess this up... Granola should start out kind-of scrawny and frail looking and then getting the power-up should make him bulk up, right? So there'd be this big difference in how he looks. And then he could suddenly feel really detached and worn out, like maybe the power up left him tired and jaded from the physical and mental toll on his body. He could fly off to the Heaters, immediately wreck all of them, and people are freaking out, right? Like he's become this unstoppable force of nature and he's determined to get revenge at any cost. But then the other guy's like "We don't know where Frieza is-!" and Granola is like "... Fine... then we need to start looking now." and he takes over on the spot. Maybe he even gets like a cloak or something to further showcase how much he's changed and how in-charge he is now. This is the first time in his life that he's had a clear purpose that he can achieve and he FEELS that!
We get a timeskip going. Two years have passed. And NOW it's like "Well crap, that time limit is catching up!" Granola is starting to get desperate, right? He only has a matter of months to find Frieza, and he can feel the pressure. We start to see it get to Granola as he snaps at his former comrades for minor mistakes and starts openly killing anyone who gets in his way. Maybe at some point he even blows up a planet for intel, becoming the thing he's always hated, but at this point he doesn't care. He's got too little time left to worry about anything other than his goal.
They get to the heroes, we fight and have all the action stuff, plot happens, and then after being defeated, his time limit starts actually effecting him. He dies in desperate agony as his former comrades walk away, leaving him miserable and alone. This twisted husk of a man driven to despair by his own obsession with revenge in a cold, uncaring, universe where he had to cheat to get the power to do what he wants.
Toriyama basically handed them a great villain arc on a silver platter and they just failed to execute on every level.
That's exactly how I'd hope his arc to be! A cautionary tale about revenge, the downfall it leads to, and Granolah realizing all too late he became exactly what he sought to destroy: a monster. It would have been tragic and interesting, also making the protagonists reflect about it.
This would be lowkey my favorite arc of the manga if this happened especially with the fight being as good as they are visually
I wish this was the arc
the actual arc was a million times better
@@leultrainstinct406is there a day when you’re not meatriding an author who doesn’t know you exist?
@@Whoisthatguy906bro is under that Majin Mind Control
So unfortunate. If toyotaro spent like an extra week just redrafting his story he could have made the best arc in Super.
Bravo! I think every thing you suggested was a definite improvement.
Love the channel🎉
Who tf let this guy cook??
Changing Granolah and the arc is something else! Good job 👍🏾!
I really love your videos a lot especially this one with Asura's wrath osts (goat for knowing that game...)
I agree with most of this. I don't think the whole Heater plotline should be discarded. Makes the arc feel short if it's just Buildup into Granolah fight. And I think the discarding of OATS (I think that's what it was called) should happen during the fight with UE Vegeta, Granolah being annoyed by it trying to talk him down instead of helping and believing his new power is all he needs, only to still lose.
lets all just admit, nothing will ever come close to dbz and super is drifting further and further away
Dbz just wasn’t THAT good. You only remember the peaks of the series. You don’t remember all the pointless filler, or the character moments that fell flat. You don’t remember how many of the power ups simply come out of nowhere. And you don’t remember how one of Vegetas greatest character moments, where he sacrifices himself to defeat Majin Buu, is followed IMMEIMMEDIATELY by Buu regenerating and being totally fine in the very next episode.
I thought the arc was good as it is, but you just opened my eyes, your version was perfect
if only you’d open your eyes to see how much better that actual arc was than this fan fic shit💀
he literally said granolah had days to live when it was years, and that the heeters knew where frieza was when they had no idea.
@@leultrainstinct406 They knew. How do you think they invinted him on cereal
The arc was about the contrast of vegeta and granolah not of Granolah essentially being a villains.
@@leultrainstinct406he said that so there’s actual stakes in the story due to such a short amount of time left
bro, this was great, really surprised your channel isn't bigger
This entire tier list is based on Piccolo's statement about Gamma 1 and 2 being on par with G/V, meanwhile Piccolo CANNOT sense God Ki AND Gamma 1 and 2 are Androids meaning they can't be sensed. The only scale Piccolo could have for Goku and Vegeta is SSJ3/SSJ2.
emosh brought me here, great sound and visual production, great points
Most fan-fict content etc is garbage and misses the tone and point of db entirely. But I really enjoy the nuance proposed to a bounty-hunter, 7 db’s, character progression plot for granola. Kind of makes the release seem squandered. Perhaps the anime, which is usually much worse than the manga, can borrow this idea and expand.
this idea is terrible. He didn’t even get details right like the heeters knowing where frieza was or granolah having days instead of years to live. The manga was great and all the anime needs to do is adapt it properly.
@@leultrainstinct406
I’m not gonna comment on the “video bad” take but,
The manga wasn’t good. Maybe Moro was kind of but it’s a disappointment, only thing good with Moro was Mui and only thing good with granolah was UE.
Also, you should’ve known toei doesn’t care for the manga. The Anime I’m pretty sure came earlier
We need more of these videos from you sir
Thanks bro! Just dropped a new video a couple days ago if you want to check it out! 🔥
we needed this
Bro, your ideas are so much better! Really good video, Kew it up 👍
i think you should have still included the flashback along side with the heeters and black freiza but keep the chnage with vegeta winning, granolah storming the galatic patrol hq, and granolah finding 7 instaed of 2 dragon balls
Please make more video like this fixing dragon ball arcs. Your video is so so so great 🐐
I think the wish should've been 3 weeks to live and Everytime someone gets a power boost, like Vegeta's ultra ego, he gets stronger. Wich takes more time away, cutting him down to 30 minutes by the time black Frieza comes around
20:23 it took like 18 days im pretty sure for goku and vegeta to arrive there.
We got robbed of a canon Baby 😤
The second ball should've been our adventure time with Granola. After bonding with him, and more lore dump with the pre destroyed Planet Vegeta Saiyans, and activating the new dragon, he first wishes to kill Freeza, but the dragon Earth that revived him was too powerful to be killed by the 2 ball dragon. Thus Granola learns about Planet Earth, and the more powerful wishes. Then the 3 day powerup happens like the video describes. Now he has motivation to go to Earth. To wish to keep the god power but without the time limit.
I agree with a lot of your takes, though vegeta beating granola would be a horrible change. This isn’t the topic of this video, though I feel super should’ve featured Goku and other characters in db, not just Vegeta. Just like they did before the tournament of power.
If Goku and piccolo came to the planet, it would’ve disarmed granola and cut out the unneeded saiyan vs granola fight. Edit: which could’ve been used to show more of Granola’s back story and expended the db universe. Showing what it’s like for non powerful characters outside of earth.
It wouldn’t really be a horrible change imo. Vegeta achieved UE by letting go of his past, but Granolah couldn’t let go, so it makes sense for Vegeta to beat him
reacted to this on stream. good stuff.
I feel like giving Granolah a month would work more than a few days, as that allows everything after the wish to be able to be fleshed out somewhat without being too rushed.
With just days, it's highly unlikely from a logical standpoint that Granolah could even find Frieza in the alloted time he's given.
I remember thinking Hit was a member of frieza's race. He's not right??
Nah, it's Frost from Universe 6 who's the same race as Freeza
@@CAGExplains hit race is unknown
My dream is for someone to remake Super in its entirety and fix the problems (or at least make it interesting enough to overlook the flaws)
It will had good arcs instead of retelling of the 2 Movies
Goku needs to go to another universe and have adventures there
Why? We have already seen the strongest from each universe
I’d still keep the dragons down to 2 as I feel it would fit the 3 days to live cost far better than the usual set of 7. Just make the half harder to find.
yeah the fact with the Cerulian Dragon needs something in exchange compared to the Earth and Namek Dragon who don't need this. is a neat trade off. like yeah they are easy to collect, but is the thing you need to exchange for your wish worth it?
Honestly i will not have problem with Bardock in a Flashback and saving Granola but my problem is how overpower and the wish that Bardock did like does not make senses at all and is way overbook but overall great job way better that we got they only focus themselfs on fan service with Bardock and make Bardock and Goku story even worst to understand.
Very very nice analysis and ideas
Good work
So like....Baby?
Isnt granolah not the actual villain of the arc? Hes more like the lead up and fake out for the true villain manipulating everyone, Gas and the heaters
Like granola is the 17 and 18 to gas as cell
I think his hair getting long is a reference to him aging. His hair would likely be that long if he aged whatever the amount of lifespan was used to give him that power
This video deserves waaaay more views.
Keep up the good work bro.
I have to say... your version of Granola is exaggerated evil. It's a good idea to make him lose his humanity while searching for the dragonball but i would keep the feeling of regret for those actions for his entire existence, maybe with a final redemption moments before he dies for the lack of time
Granola was one dimensional and a limited personality that never grew or learned from the past. Boring asf too. Everything was "RAAAAHHH, TEMPER TANTRUM."
Also I gotta say, I REALLY like this version of Granolah. This arc feels like it would be really short, but maybe that's a good thing.
This was awesome! I stopped reading in Moro, so this can be my substitute.
What strings need to be pulled for this version to be the one adapted into an anime when the Granola arc gets animated? I must know
Man random spoilers slipped in suck
Thanks dude
They really wanted to do Baby but worse, huh?
Simplification : Combine Granola and Gas into one character.
Have Granola be announced as Bardock's son and Goku's half brother, Frieza arrives and kills him the same way he kills Gas!
Frieza leaves the audience and Goku thoroughly antagonized.
12:52 i would have put 3 weaks (for him to be sure that he would be able to "find and kill freeza")
The gang could well work on the side cooking something for the next one similar to the Pitaf gang except more successful lol
i came to watch a dragon ball video and got smacked with a hunter x hunter spoiler
Honestly a good theme for the battle following your changes would be
Granolah getting impatient and just feeling entitled to the saiyans dying to him just because he wished to be the strongest, and he needs to hurry up and go kill Frieza
But the tide of battle slowly turns against him and the reality dawns on him than Goku and Vegeta get stronger as they battle and are going to eventually surpass and beat him
The problem with the dragon ball super drawn by Toyotarou, is that every single panel is a rehash of a prior event, because every one of them has to have the thumbs up from Toriyama or get redrawn over and over again, it's why moro ended up being a cell clone. Toyotarou didn't want to take the risk of redoing his work.
Love what you did but I would have kept the heaters gang in more . After being bitched by granola let them interrogate oatmeal for his info on the dragon balls , they use it to get gas to be the strongest and after granola is beaten by vegeta , have him ,goku , and granola defeat gas . After gas is defeated have frieza return sensing this massive battle happening , in which he kills elek and defeats granola , goku, and vegeta . This gives a reason for granola to return in the story to help stop frieza
I was really sad hearing the Granola Arc was a flop, he looked cool and I was anticipating some hopefully good content. But at least we have fans to provide different ideas.
This was what made me give up on dragonball. Just so lazy and dumb. It was like if Charlie from it's always sunny in philly huffed way too much glue and wrote some fanfiction.
i didn’t watch this video i’m basing this comment off the title alone (i do watch this guys other stuff) but i don’t think the way to fix the arc is by making granola evil, i in fact really like that he’s not pure evil and they mainly start fighting because of a misunderstanding. just my opinion tho👍
Your rewritten Granolah is awesome, please keep cooking
The re-write is fine but the gas and heaters would be nice
What are the names of all the music you have playing here?
So you would change the whole point of having a fight for the sake of without any stake 😂 all the clash of dbz from great demon piccolo on up untill granolah (except for Majin vegeta vs goku) was a "universe level threat to destroy" to save people, granolah arc isn't about stakes and investment but tries to be about accepting the sayan nature of fighting for the sake of and becoming stronger with that. Granolah arc was bad but to fix it you have to recognize and improve on the concept, not to change the entire concept otherwise you can just say "let's skip this arc"
Vegeta getting the arc-ending W over a villain instead of Goku is wishful thinking on our part smfh.
I bet Toriyama's last wish was that vegeta should never get a main W
This is such a better adaptation of the Granola arc
For an in universe goku vs superman, Jiren would've had to be extremely weak and get one shotted by base goku.
This definitely is an in universe goku vs saitama
Granolah had so much potential just *milked* away . Also , I wish this could be panelised as a manga
Agree
They should've taken notes from vergil when writing Jiren ngl
Ah, DBS, shallower every day that passes
Vegeta lost his pride along time ago when he took power from his fellow saiyans to attain ssg.
But he did it by himself? Bro didn't watch the show tf. RoF and GF Arc both say he achieved "the power of gods" by himself.
The build up was granaloh and the sayians finally coming face to face
The tension was granaloh believing the sayians where the enemy so he was finally able to get get back for who he thought was responsible
The substance was granaloh finally realizing and finding out that a sayian is the reason he survived to see another day and was tricked into the whole situation
And the resolution fighting alongside the same sayians he deemed as the enemy to stop the actual threat once learning the truth granaloh was never the antagonist he was the protagonist of his own story where it could be looked at as goku and vegeta where the antagonist to his story til he find out the truth
As someone who just wanted to see vegeta progression, im satisfied
The thing you misunderstand is that Granolah wasn't meant to be the main antoagonist. He was meant to be an arc main character. He fails at this, too, obviously. And a lot of your changes work either way, but the Heaters were always meant to be the main antagonists of this arc, Granolah was supposed to be a good guy.
But the heaters are trash anyway, so not including them prominently is better
Toyotaro is a hack. Give the anime to the "DB Deliverance" crew on YT.
Can't he just revive his people with dragonball?
Granola Deserves better I like him he’s cool
Yeah 150 YEARS is a extremely short amount of time to give up, totally
I like this version but having granola be the only person that actually says anything on the encounter makes 0 sense and this may not work with toyrama and toyatoro future plans for bardock or Frieza or Goku and completely removed Goku which is fine if Goku still got to remember bardock I do genuinely like the new bardock it's an interesting idea but worse then the non canon one
I dont fully agree with you fully but somewhat
I do appreciate you coming with alternatives instead of just complaints. More people should do that. I do however Not like your portrayal of Granolah at all because it goes against who he is supposed to be. Almost stopped the video when you said he destroyed part of the Galactic Patrol. Granolah is actually a goodish guy and im fine with that, not everyone needs to be so edgy. I kinda like the idea of Elec manipulating everything, id kinda lean into that more if anything. This is Granolah the survivor arc he should be the PROTAGONIST, let the Heeters be the true antagonists. I think thats where my disconnect is with you. I do agree with Granolah searching for 7 dbs instead of 2 and his lifespan being way shorter tho!
Dang Granolah could've actually been cool if they put in the work.
This brother spittin
Dude it gets worse than the end of the Goku Black Arc?
they made a form to frieza that was used to just end the arc, currently nothing of relevance is happening
Zamasu and morou are good villains of dbz level
Cause they jacked? 😂
Hope the anime fixes it like this
I am gonna be honest i thought moro was based off tirek from my little pony
I also think it wouldve been funny if he had a stronger relationship with elic which caused gas to be jealous and ON HIS OWN choose to keep burning thru his life to kill grannolah
bruh get this mf to write for dbs manga PLEASE. Or atleast make him Toyotaros editor lmaoo
I think Toriyama just suffered with burnout during Z and he was done with the overblown story of Dragon ball,he lost his passion for the Story ans that can be seen in his other works Which are much more grounded and have the most Satisfying Stories such as Sandland the Manga a true Master piece and now Daima a project he was so interested in because it went back to what he initially liked
The grounded Adventure based story that just takes a break from beg explosions
Background music?
Sometimes less is more
While I haven't watched Dragon Ball Super, so I could be wrong about this, I think a missed opportunity for Jiren that could've made him be a more interesting character, alongside making him a reference to the Goku vs Superman/Saitama debate, would've been to make him a more direct foil to Goku in terms of what they believe in. It could be put that because in his universe Jiren is a superhero, he's spent most of his life fighting for the greater good of others, and constantly putting his life on the line for the fate of his world/dimension. When he meets Goku, combined with a dislike of him for supposedly instigating the Tournament of Power, he could also be shown to grow a further dislike of him due to his tendency to prioritize fighting as a sport even if the stakes are really high, which could also serve to acknowledge criticisms made to how Super Goku was reduced to a meathead who's character's been boiled down to, "likes to fight people." In their interactions, it could be repeatedly emphasized how Goku and Jiren differ in that one man likes to fight because he enjoys it, while the other fights for the greater good, and maybe during their interactions Jiren could give Goku a few humbling words of wisdom about the importance of fighting for what's right, and the whole time they'd battle each other, he'd remain portrayed as a hero fighting to save his universe as opposed to the generic Might Makes Right villain it sounds like he was reduced to near the end. By the time their fight reaches a climax, Goku has come to understand Jiren's words and builds a respect for him. By the time their fight is finished, Goku has come to the conclusion that while he still enjoys fighting for fun, there are some times where he has to prioritize the fates of others over the mere sport of the battle, with him going through the rest of the tournament of power giving it his all, fighting to save his universe. Maybe even after defeating Jiren, he'd show no joy in this victory compared to other fights out of the knowledge that he's just doomed his universe, and chooses to honor him by planning to wish his universe back into existence if he manages to win in the end. Again, I could be wrong about Jiren and he might be a more interesting character than I've heard, but if he really was that much of a wasted character in the series, then I think this could've been a good way to add more depth to him, as well as have him exist to help further Goku's character development, with Jiren functioning at the same time both as Goku's enemy and as a sort of mentor to him.
What coulda been cool os if the Red Ribbon Army and Heeters teamed up so Cell Max and the Gammas were so strong because the heeters sold a copy of 73's data. Also have the Heeters introduced un the Moro arc with Gas not participating in the fight until he sees Goku and then when they get away instead of joining Moro he says he's going home.
Great vid you brought up a lot of decent points🙏🏽
could you please make a second part with the heat gang as villains