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Dont forget Z fighters like Krillin survived direct attacks from totally uncontrollable brainless Cell Max, very unlikely it was containing itself when punching him and rest of the Z fighters which also were capable of destroying its wings, they should at last be ssj blue for doing that
The biggest problem is how are we supposed to take Piccolo's or Bulma's statements about strength seriously when they haven't seen Goku and Vegeta in years and when they did, they couldn't sense their powerlevel because of God Ki. Are we going purely on visuals now?
The bigger question is why in every single Dragon Ball power-scaling video anyone has ever done, Toriyama is always shown with the same photo from 30 years ago
A lot of mangaka are pretty private in appearance, and a lot go by a pin name and never reveal their real name or image. Images r typically limited if at all. I wouldn't want to be recognized and be swarmed in public by fans just doing basic daily public things or haters. Just look at hoe ppl act on Twitter if they do something they don't like or how many ppl would walk up yo give "better ideas"
As a big old power scaler, and specifically Dragon Ball power scaler, my advice to all is……if you’re gonna scale this show you have to use like 5% logic
I don't get why they introduced the concept of "god KI" - which to me was supposed to be the big next step that is stronger/better that anything else, which made Goku and Vegeta on par with literal gods and maybe even angels in the future - just to make other characters like Gohan, Piccolo and Cell Max so much stronger without using god KI. Maybe I missed something but that feels so stupid to me. Also, all those characters are supposed to be able to destroy planets with ease but we never see any of that. The fights always look and feel the same, this immense planet busting power that they have is never shown or represented. They are supposedly stronger than gods but somehow still do kung-fu on the ground instead of trading massive blows, shaking the outer space.
Godki really was wasted. Could of been a good narrative tool to actually bring characters back in to relevancy, organically but nope. Just off-screen power cliffing and calling it a day.
Honestly Toriyama just has no reverence for the new levels of power that he introduces to the series. It's no different than Gero making androids stronger than super saiyans and Hedo making God level androids.
I’m pretty certain Toriyama has no idea what the scale is. Edit: With Daima coming into the picture none of the power scaling theories even matter anyways.
Actually wait, I lied, I do have something to say and it's that; it's absolutely bloody stupid how Gammas 1 and 2 are on the same league, if not, same power level as Goku and Vegeta. _You ain't wrong_ btw about this, you are win fact correct in scaling these four relatively to each other due to the information and statements given in the movie and manga. The dumb part here is the fact that a child, one that is both human _and_ hasn't seen any of the events of like the past 6 arcs, managed to just create androids that were casually on par with the power of 2 Saiyan Warriors that quite literally achieved special techniques, only usable by God's and Angels (not to mention how they previously already reached Saiyan Godhood, _bloody Godhood_ but we all know Super Saiyan God at this point is a scam and half). As for the arguments on 'hey what about the Cell saga?' Well yeah, that shit was stupid too, doesn't make it not dumb now, especially when said androids this time are a gilzilloon and more times stronger than the ones in Z so now it's an even bigger head scratcher. Guess human scientists are just the cream of the crop when it comes to creating super duper power characters that just conventional become the exact same power level as the rest of the cast in order to artificially create at least some degree of tension and stakes, guess we should ring up Bulma next time the world/universe/mutliuniverse is at stake so she can just build a Beerus level robot cuz at this point, Goku and Vegeta are not only pointless no matter how much they're leveling up, they're also _never fkn catching up to him._
Personally, I still have a little hope that "at the same level of Goku and Vegeta" ACTUALLY meant "at the same level of BASE Goku and Vegeta" (even though it remains stupid, but it's at least _a little bit_ more bearable)
That's where you are wrong, considering Goku and Vegeta weren't even on earth during most of the moro arc and the granolah arc 💀 Meaning piccolo's statement probably means top Goku. Plus dude can't even sense god ki so I doubt he actually knows how strong Goku and Vegeta are 💀
Humanity invented the capsule and infinite energy sources decades ago and that one pirate robot in the OG was at least a century before that, which means humanity shouldn't be so limited in technology. Humanity should have colonized space decades ago like Freezer.
Fr, wish Gero back to live and throw him, hedo and bulma into the time chamber for 3 days and they build the new king of the multiverse with the logic in this series.
Honestly I gave up on caring about dragon ball in regards to how strong each of them are. So many different inconsistencies. You can’t apply ration to it bc it’s almost always simple as “yea that guy is stronger”
Minor correction-Beerus IS the strongest GoD by far. It’s specifically stated as much in the Broly Movie novel (which is Toriyama’s script put into novel format and includes details that weren’t in the film). That said, I definitely agree that Beerus isn’t some ungodly amount higher than the rest. He’s just mildly stronger than them, and is instead more like F.Zamasu was to Goku and Vegeta in his original draft-Strong enough to handle them individually, but not so strong he could handle them altogether.
Beerus is above fused zamasu because it stated that two ssbs can match beerus and maybe defeat him but if two ssbs fought fused zamasu they would overpower him with ease.
@@ForceFire472 No I used Fused Zamasu as a reference. Beerus is like Fused Zamasu in reference to the powers of other GoDs. Can take on individual/maybe even a few GoDs by himself, by not all 11 of the rest at once jumping him.
@@Wexor. Again, as said before, Beerus in *Toriyama’s* script is the STRONGEST. There’s no other information given. He is top dog (or well, cat). Hence why I reference F.Zamasu. He can verifiably cream another GoD {so long as they aren’t relative to him, like Quitela}, but he couldn’t handle too many at once. We also know from both Anime and Manga that while Beerus might be the *most powerful,* he’s also only lost in an arm wrestling contest to one GoD. Logically, this means if the two weakest GoDs tried to jump him, he’d more than likely be fine. Something we see in the Manga-He can handle the lower tier ones, but not all 11 at once, and stronger ones can step to him and make him struggle. Or, roughly, identical to what I said before: He can handle each individually, maybe a few weaker ones, but he’s not a whole ungodly level above the rest. Just mildly/moderately stronger than most of them.
I find it baffling people still try to hold any power scaling in DBS. The vid is great, legit you did a great job - I'm more pointing at fans that I feel like they've not watched/read DB at all. The cannon is a mess even before DBS with movies, show and manga having different events and lines, but they seemed to keep things mostly together. But Super? My goodness. . .I was happy to see Roshi be relevant again along with everyone else (except poor Tien) but it made no sense. Like, beating Frieza was mental on DBZ, everyone was like "This is impossible, it'll never happen" but it did and that was in the millions and after so much insane training. And Roshi caught up. . . somehow?? Gohan sure whatever maybe, but then 17 and Krillen? Two that haven't been fighting? But 17 was training while being a park ranger. . . Sure I guess. It was such a bone headed way of catching people up and it didn't even matter anyway because Ultra instinct and now Ultra Ego and Legend of Kora powers and oh wait Gohan is beyond everyone somehow? . . . I just see it as Toei asking for more PNG bait for their mobile game and DLC for Xenoverse 2 ( the game that won't bloody die)
I can't remember the last time I watched a Dragon Ball video I entirely agreed with (Beast Gohan disdain aside). Probably another one of your videos, to be honest. Phenomenal content as always, sir!
You'd be a jobbernowl if you agreed with his disingenuous, cherrypicking horsesh#t, mate. He's wildly incorrect about Beerus. Toriyama's statement regarding Black Frieza was that he was close to the level of A God of Destruction. It likely implies Beerus, given how the current DBS arc is the last of the series (that we know of). In a recent DBS chapter, Beerus explicitly stated that WHEN Goku becomes more powerful than him, he'll nominate him for the position, therefore meaning that Goku 3 years after the Granolah Arc (when he and Vegeta were both more powerful than Broly without their Ultimate transformations) was still his inferior. Beerus isn't the egotistical type when it comes to this kind of stuff. Given how Beerus is likely the most powerful GoD (him quickly taking out Champa and nearly killing 5 other Gods), and how this manga arc is the last of Dragon Ball Super, it's likely he's alluding Beerus. Even so, if you're making the argument that the GoDs are a set tier of power and don't widely differentiate in power (an argument that's quickly dismantled given how quickly Beerus took down Blue Vegeta, whom he stated was GoD-candidate level), then it's incorrect given Toriyama's recent statement regarding Black Frieza's power encroaching on a GoD's power. You're cherrypicking things that suit your claim, while simultaneously dismissing even things that Toriyama have stated about a character (Jiren, for example) when it doesn't fit your narrative. Toei didn't inflate anything. In-universe, Jiren was repeatedly stated by MANY characters to be more powerful than his own universe's GoD. This is within canon.
Base equals SSG from BOG really is what kicked off the massive inconsistencies in super's powerscaling. Having ramdom cabba equal to or greater than ssg goku from bog is just nuts
Fr.. so yall mean to tell me planet sadala has universe busting saiyans? Kinda bs if u ask me. Also what if they had never reached ssg lv and still faced cabba. They wouldve gotten stomped.
@@FagnerLSantos not really as after the U6 tournament, goku in base fought beerus and doing way better than anything goku could ever do as a ssj3. We even see base vegeta as copy vegeta take absolutely nothing from ssj3 gotenks and one shot him in return, indicating that their base forms are way above their peaks in bog
Finally a youtuber who makes Dragon Ball content as amazing as Mistare Fusion. I’ve been awaiting a RUclipsr who seems to enjoy power scaling and enjoy fights just on a purely compositional/visual level but also understands story and theming as well as they do. This video and the one about Goku’s martial artist skill assassination goes further beyond.
Going off just Toriyama's statements and the movies, I would say this is very accurate. The only questionable placement for me is ultimate Gohan. He had the edge over Gamma 1, but was unable to defeat him, even in a 1v1, so I think he should go a tier down.
I've always hated Power Scaling. It feels like the dragon ball fandom latches on to numbers instead of character and story. So a fight in dragon becomes a math's battle instead of an impactful battle between people with history.
If Whis was only 50% more powerful than Beerus in BoG, how is Whis leagues above SSB Gogeta? This would mean SSB plus fusion is at most a two times multiplication over SSG Goku. That is, if we assume no other power gain was made in-between; otherwise, SSB plus fusion would be even less of an increase.
A fusion between Goku and Vegeta canonically being the strongest Z fighter while Gohan in his top from is the strongest unfused Z fighter... This gives me deja vu to the pre-2013 days, with Vegito and Ultimate("Mystic") Gohan being the strongest characters when discounting non-canon GT characters. It's downright nostalgic.😄
Is it weird that I actually prefer this scaling to what we have in the manga and anime? It feels a bit cleaner, less jumpy from level to level. I never liked blue evolved or the ultra instinct forms (especially now that they're dime a dozen-) So just keeping it to God and Blue is fine by me.
worst mistake Super ever did was stating Goku and Vegeta in base were as strong as ssj god goku in battle of gods. this made everyone that came after stronger than ssj Vegito and Buuhan. cabba, kale, trunks not rage just ssj trunks, all those dogs from that one universe, and both android 17/18. all of them surpassed SSJ Vegito and Buuhan some of these characters by 2-10x stronger than them. how???? complete bs. just dont do it. just erase that quote, and dont have goku turn ssj blue for every single encounter. for the love of god even krillin... urgh.
You're editing is something else (in a good way) as someone who is not a fan of db, but slowly getting into it, powers scaling in Dragon ball Super can be way too confusing for my brain to handle 😭 it was conceivable to me at first (By the various clips of someone using their scouters to see their opponent power level) But, i think they dropped it that entirely in super, leaving people guessing as to what specific power level someone has. I think it reached to a very confusing point, where power levels of individuals are near vague...but hey, this is speaking from a outsider point of view 💥 But yeah, very nice video you cooked up 👍
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video! And I think you're right about DBS power scaling this whole list could go out the window if Toriyama ever decides to make another movie 💀
Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta? Bullshit. How much farther is he going to reach up in his ass to pull out more and more unearned power?
Dude, thank you for putting this together. Easily one of the best scaling videos I’ve seen. No number arguments, multipliers, or any of all that arbitrary stuff. The best arguments when it comes to scaling I’ve always told friends is author intention. This is the DBS power scale I’ve wanted to see someone do the research and figure out for a long time.
Great Vid!! But I kinda think your explanation for Beeruss power is kinda in contention due to Toriyama writing that Broly is only probably stronger than Beerus, the same Broly who in Ssj alone made 2 Ssbs run away. 2 Ssbs being Beerus level just doesn’t hold up, since Goku and Vegeta both knew that they couldn’t beat Broly together and Goku considers Broly to only be possibly above Beerus
So clean... so simple... after super, this feels like a breath of fresh air. It feels like Z felt. Which yes, it does mean that the androids and ultimate gohan are absolute bullshit, Toriyama never changed. But even that it's better than what we actually got in super.
In the new Chapter Beerus was implying that even TUI goku is still not stronger than him by beerus saying "If you become stronger than me I might nominate you for God of Destruction"
This is really damn good God. The best I’ve seen yet. Because you’re able to make sense and eliminate a lot of them fusion that was implemented throughout the power scaling system. Very well done!!!
I actually agree with this it makes alot of sense if you cut out everything from the manga and anime, and just focus soley on the movies the powerscaling makes so much more sense. I have a question though is Moro Granolah Gas and Black Frieza not canon? They do kinda mention Frieza in the superhero movie, but they don't mention any of the other villains. Edit: also forgot to mention that i think Utimate Piccolo should be in B-tier and Jiren in S-tier, because Piccolo said that the gammas are on par with Goku and Vegeta from the last time he saw them, unless he's seen Goku and Vegeta training and Ultimate Piccolo was beating Gamma 2 until he went full power, but Piccolo was still doing pretty well against the Gamma 2 and wasn't immediately oneshotted so it should be like this. Current SSB Goku&Vegeta=Gammas full power > Ultimate Piccolo > suppresed Gammas. Everything else i agree with though.
Sticking to Toriyama words and his words alone make this series a bit more digestible and understandable. I couldn't see how Beast is way above that of Gogeta, Granola, Gas and Moro all together. It wasn't adding up.
No joke it literally is. I cant remember who posted it on twitter but someone from working on the anime basically said vegetas new form at the time (ssbe) was equal to ssb kaioken.
By re-watching this video, many things came to my mind, including if the Broly movie was meant to end differently: • Since it was stated that at this point a fusion is impossible, this would imply that the movie wasn't meant to showcase Gogeta, so I wonder if Broly was supposed to fight against Goku, Vegeta and Freeza all three together, similarly to the end of the ToP; • Considering that the "Full Power" Broly was not created by Toriyama, this would put Broly on a lower level, in terms of power, and much more believable that Goku, Vegeta (and possibly Freeza) could take on Broly, probably the main goal was to buy time until he regains consciousness and/or gets teleported back to his planet; • Also, thinking about what's being said about Goku, Vegeta and Beerus... Shin statement about Vegetto strength, in relation to Beerus, is far more plausible. There are also other consideration I have in mind, but I don't want to drag this for too long.
Nice video/Tier list Cage. I also like that you talked about the Gammas being parallels to Goku and Vegeta, i thought i was one of the only people who thought that since i don't hear people talking about it
Glad you enjoyed the video bro! Honestly when you rewatch Super Hero and imagine the Gammas as Goku and Vegeta it's quite interesting, shame they didn't fuse like them as well lol 🤔
it is sad to see beerus be that low on the tier list because not only was he hyped up all the time to be "undefeatable", he also has so much writing potential other than "ooh im big grumpy and im gonna destroy your planet if you look at me wrong"
Much like the current state of the DBS Manga, I got nothing substantial to add here (shameless, ik;), just wanted to say the Sonic Rush music here slaps and you are an absolute _king_ for using it. Edit: is that Tekken as well? CAG u son of a gun, i love you
I thought when Whis said Goku and Vegeta working together could beat Beerus he meant fusion. If you remember Whis does state in the Broly movie "So you two *can* work together". This would make Beerus the same level as maybe Base/SSJ Gogeta. Just a thought though
Bro beerus took damage because every g.o.d teamed up on him. He almost won too if grand priest didnt stop the fight, although his win against quitella is questionable
Yeah we can put BF and Granolah there but Toriyama clearly adapted the plot around Toyotaro’s power scaling. So these characters are irrelevant to this tier list.
One problem: How could Piccolo possibly come to conclusion that Gamma 1 and 2 are on par with Goku and Vegeta? Piccolo cannot sense God Ki so the highest power he could possibly have for Goku is SSJ3. Meaning Gamma 1 and 2 are on par with SSJ3 Goku at best post Broly movie.
Nah we all know whis wasnt smiling from how powerful he was, we all heard the "oh my" when he saw essentially a shirtless version of the best parts of goku and vegeta lmao
Interesting idea and well put together video but let's be honest here.... a good 80-90% of this video is headcanon based on throwaway lines or weird interpretations of toriyamas word/work. But hey, game is game
Given the Scaling Toriyama gave us back in the Battle of Gods movie, one could induce this Tier List into that scaling like this: 4 Gohan 5 Frieza, Piccolo 6 Goku SSG, Vegeta SSG 7 Toppo, "Great Ape" Broly 8 Goku SSB , Vegeta SSB, Golden Frieza, Gamma 1 & 2 9 Fused Zamasu, Ultimate Gohan 10 Beerus and the Gods of Destruction 11 Jiren 12 Orange Piccolo 13 Full Power Broly, Cell Max 14 Gogeta Blue, Beast Gohan 15 Whis and the Angels 20 Grand Priest Zeno is even higher Obviously, this still doesn't make completely sense but I think it shows that Toriyama tried to be somewhat consistent.
Gogeta has been a long time favorite of mine since Fusion Reborn and your list leaves me feeling justified. Dragonball power scaling logic is beyond reasoning but you helped it make a bit more sense. Ty.
Great video, yeah this tier list isn't accurate to the Super anime or manga continuities scaling, but that wasn't your objective. This would be my version of the ranking (the tiers are ordered): S tier: Gogeta Blue, Gohan Beast A tier: SSJ Broly, Cell Max, Jiren B tier: Merged Zamasu, Orange Piccolo, Golden Frieza, Blue Vegeta, Blue Goku, Toppo C tier: Ultimate Gohan, Gammas, Ikari Broly D tier: God Vegeta, God Goku, Base Frieza E tier: Ultimate Piccolo Beerus' position is very unknown, I don't think Beerus = Goku + Vegeta Blue applies currently for Toriyama. Btw in the Broly movie in japanese Goku says that Broly is POSSIBLY stronger than Beerus I would really appreciate a reply or like just so I know you've read this.
Wildly incorrect about Beerus. Toriyama's statement regarding Black Frieza was that he was close to the level of A God of Destruction. Furthermore, in a recent DBS chapter, Beerus explicitly stated that WHEN Goku becomes more powerful than him, he'll nominate him for the position, therefore meaning that Goku 3 years after the Granolah Arc (when he and Vegeta were both more powerful than Broly without their Ultimate transformations) was still his inferior. Beerus isn't the egotistical type when it comes to this kind of stuff. Given how Beerus is likely the most powerful GoD (him quickly taking out Champa and nearly killing 5 other Gods), and how this manga arc is the last of Dragon Ball Super, it's likely he's alluding Beerus. Even so, if you're making the argument that the GoDs are a set tier of power and don't widely differentiate in power (an argument that's quickly dismantled given how quickly Beerus took down Blue Vegeta, whom he stated was GoD-candidate level), then it's incorrect given Toriyama's recent statement regarding Black Frieza's power encroaching on a GoD's power. You're cherrypicking things that suit your claim, while simultaneously dismissing even things that Toriyama have stated about a character (Jiren, for example) when it doesn't fit your narrative. Toei didn't inflate anything. In-universe, Jiren was repeatedly stated by MANY characters to be more powerful than his own universe's GoD. This is within canon. Complete horsesh#t, mate.
Looks like you couldn't bother to listen to the rules he showed, the scaling sticks to Toriyama's writing and statements only, the manga os written by Toyotaro
I love your content; you are the only Dragon Ball fan who looks at facts and uses their brain instead of their bias and fanboyism With that said it's time to roast the tier list: I disagree MASSIVELY with ultimate gohan in A. Are you telling me that Gohan was already stronger than 90% of Super characters all the way back in Buu saga? That in Battle of Gods, the so called Super saiyan God of legends was much much weaker than one of the guys Beerus one shotted? That he could've beat Jiren 1v1, or put up a much better fight than goku and vegeta did? If he was in A tier he should've been dominating Gamma 1 but the fight was very even. Even putting him in the same level as Blue is too much (in anime ToP he can't do shit against Toppo even with 17's help, and in Manga Moro arc he can't do anything about Saganbo, who Blue goku beats even after further powerups), but i have to accept it as of Super Hero. Orange Piccolo in S is off-putting for a similar reason: logically speaking it's just too much of a jump for a side character; he couldn't do much more than hold off a weakened Cell Max for a few minutes. "How did he nosell Gamma 2's punches, then?" Maybe A tier power level can already do that. Maybe Gamma 2 wasn't using his full power, was already tiring, or is not as strong as a Blue after all. Toriyama doesn't overthink power scaling and neither should we overthink basically 10 seconds of the film Another thing is that while Ultra Instinct/Ego and beyond weren't in his original script, it doesnt mean he doesn't acknowledge their existence at all. He has to look at Toyotaro's work from time to time (He actually participated in writing Granolah arc: Toyotaro designed the heeters alongside him iirc, and he designed some of the side characters and Monaito). And if Super were to ever continue he wouldn't just forget about Ultra Instinct like you imply he does. Orange and Beast Gohan have to have been written with Ultra Instinct in mind. the concept of saiyan beyond god has long since been retconned, so base Frieza in C tier alongside Super Saiyan Gods can't be accurate anymore. So: Orange piccolo to the top of A Ultimate Gohan and the gammas to the bottom of B Base frieza removed Ultra Instinct to the top of A (toriyama will have to include it eventually if he doesnt end Dragon Ball for good)
Bro I appreciate you being so reasonable with your disagreement with my tier list. This is the kind of discussion I want to see. That being said I am curious as to where DBS will go when the Super Hero arc is over next month and we'll get more insight on how strong characters are in relation to one another.
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Dont forget Z fighters like Krillin survived direct attacks from totally uncontrollable brainless Cell Max, very unlikely it was containing itself when punching him and rest of the Z fighters which also were capable of destroying its wings, they should at last be ssj blue for doing that
The biggest problem is how are we supposed to take Piccolo's or Bulma's statements about strength seriously when they haven't seen Goku and Vegeta in years and when they did, they couldn't sense their powerlevel because of God Ki. Are we going purely on visuals now?
can't you measure god ki through the pressure? I would NOT take bulma's statement because bulma has no actual fighting sense
The bigger question is why in every single Dragon Ball power-scaling video anyone has ever done, Toriyama is always shown with the same photo from 30 years ago
He doesn't age
Because he's not public guy likes to stay away form media
We’re lucky to even know what he looks like. Most mangaka keep themselves hidden and are insanely private.
A lot of mangaka are pretty private in appearance, and a lot go by a pin name and never reveal their real name or image. Images r typically limited if at all.
I wouldn't want to be recognized and be swarmed in public by fans just doing basic daily public things or haters.
Just look at hoe ppl act on Twitter if they do something they don't like or how many ppl would walk up yo give "better ideas"
Hell most mangaka don't even reveal their gender
As a big old power scaler, and specifically Dragon Ball power scaler, my advice to all is……if you’re gonna scale this show you have to use like 5% logic
what's worse to powerscale, super or hereos?
@@amienabled6665 Heroes/Xenoverse takes the cake
Facts. Even this list doesn’t make sense. Gohan is broken 💀
@@joeker5208ong fr fr
@@amienabled6665 Heroes is where powerscaling really goes to die.
I don't get why they introduced the concept of "god KI" - which to me was supposed to be the big next step that is stronger/better that anything else, which made Goku and Vegeta on par with literal gods and maybe even angels in the future - just to make other characters like Gohan, Piccolo and Cell Max so much stronger without using god KI. Maybe I missed something but that feels so stupid to me.
Also, all those characters are supposed to be able to destroy planets with ease but we never see any of that. The fights always look and feel the same, this immense planet busting power that they have is never shown or represented. They are supposedly stronger than gods but somehow still do kung-fu on the ground instead of trading massive blows, shaking the outer space.
Godki really was wasted. Could of been a good narrative tool to actually bring characters back in to relevancy, organically but nope. Just off-screen power cliffing and calling it a day.
Honestly Toriyama just has no reverence for the new levels of power that he introduces to the series. It's no different than Gero making androids stronger than super saiyans and Hedo making God level androids.
@@CAGExplains « God level androids » sounds so wrong to me lmao but you’re right
@@upsyloownmusicwhat kinda grad school classes do I need to attend to build that shit.
@@Beans-do6wcAsk Hedo he would know lol. 😂
I’m pretty certain Toriyama has no idea what the scale is.
Edit: With Daima coming into the picture none of the power scaling theories even matter anyways.
Facts☠️💀💀
Honestly If the DBS manga ends with chapter 100 I wouldn’t be surprised 💀
Lol
Love ur videos btw
Btw people say beerus only used 1 percent power if he used 70 percent that means mui can beat him
I’ve never considered the Gammas as parallels to Goku and Vegeta but it fits very well
Honestly it might go even deeper, with Gamma 2's colour scheme even matching Goku's (colours draws Goku's with a shade closer to yellow than orange)
I still have a little hope that "at the same level of Goku and Vegeta" ACTUALLY meant "at the same level of BASE Goku and Vegeta"
I didn't think about it either, and that was a nice touch non the less
No@@randomthings1293
@randomthings1293 this is insane cope! Piccolo in Super Hero knows how strong the Blue Saiyans are!
Actually wait, I lied, I do have something to say and it's that; it's absolutely bloody stupid how Gammas 1 and 2 are on the same league, if not, same power level as Goku and Vegeta. _You ain't wrong_ btw about this, you are win fact correct in scaling these four relatively to each other due to the information and statements given in the movie and manga.
The dumb part here is the fact that a child, one that is both human _and_ hasn't seen any of the events of like the past 6 arcs, managed to just create androids that were casually on par with the power of 2 Saiyan Warriors that quite literally achieved special techniques, only usable by God's and Angels (not to mention how they previously already reached Saiyan Godhood, _bloody Godhood_ but we all know Super Saiyan God at this point is a scam and half).
As for the arguments on 'hey what about the Cell saga?' Well yeah, that shit was stupid too, doesn't make it not dumb now, especially when said androids this time are a gilzilloon and more times stronger than the ones in Z so now it's an even bigger head scratcher.
Guess human scientists are just the cream of the crop when it comes to creating super duper power characters that just conventional become the exact same power level as the rest of the cast in order to artificially create at least some degree of tension and stakes, guess we should ring up Bulma next time the world/universe/mutliuniverse is at stake so she can just build a Beerus level robot cuz at this point, Goku and Vegeta are not only pointless no matter how much they're leveling up, they're also _never fkn catching up to him._
Human scientists can create God level androids... just because!
The more I think about it the dumber it gets 💀
Personally, I still have a little hope that "at the same level of Goku and Vegeta" ACTUALLY meant "at the same level of BASE Goku and Vegeta" (even though it remains stupid, but it's at least _a little bit_ more bearable)
That's where you are wrong, considering Goku and Vegeta weren't even on earth during most of the moro arc and the granolah arc 💀
Meaning piccolo's statement probably means top Goku. Plus dude can't even sense god ki so I doubt he actually knows how strong Goku and Vegeta are 💀
Humanity invented the capsule and infinite energy sources decades ago and that one pirate robot in the OG was at least a century before that, which means humanity shouldn't be so limited in technology. Humanity should have colonized space decades ago like Freezer.
Fr, wish Gero back to live and throw him, hedo and bulma into the time chamber for 3 days and they build the new king of the multiverse with the logic in this series.
I dont even know if Toriyama remembers who half of these characters are
That happens once you reach 70 years old
I think it’s funny (but also smart) that you got rid of the anime only forms like evolution and rage cause they make like 0 sense
It made making this list way easier as well 😂
You really do your research, good stuff.
Thanks! Glad you appreciate my Dragon Ball nerdiness 🔥
Honestly I gave up on caring about dragon ball in regards to how strong each of them are. So many different inconsistencies.
You can’t apply ration to it bc it’s almost always simple as “yea that guy is stronger”
Yep same way I stopped caring about Dragon Ball right after super
Yeah when a scientist can make God level androids with no explanation... it is what it is lol
Minor correction-Beerus IS the strongest GoD by far.
It’s specifically stated as much in the Broly Movie novel (which is Toriyama’s script put into novel format and includes details that weren’t in the film).
That said, I definitely agree that Beerus isn’t some ungodly amount higher than the rest. He’s just mildly stronger than them, and is instead more like F.Zamasu was to Goku and Vegeta in his original draft-Strong enough to handle them individually, but not so strong he could handle them altogether.
Beerus is above fused zamasu because it stated that two ssbs can match beerus and maybe defeat him but if two ssbs fought fused zamasu they would overpower him with ease.
@@ForceFire472 No I used Fused Zamasu as a reference.
Beerus is like Fused Zamasu in reference to the powers of other GoDs.
Can take on individual/maybe even a few GoDs by himself, by not all 11 of the rest at once jumping him.
@@redreaper9622 oh okay makes sense.
@@redreaper9622He cant take on multiple of them. Not if you follow Toriyama
@@Wexor. Again, as said before, Beerus in *Toriyama’s* script is the STRONGEST. There’s no other information given. He is top dog (or well, cat). Hence why I reference F.Zamasu. He can verifiably cream another GoD {so long as they aren’t relative to him, like Quitela}, but he couldn’t handle too many at once.
We also know from both Anime and Manga that while Beerus might be the *most powerful,* he’s also only lost in an arm wrestling contest to one GoD.
Logically, this means if the two weakest GoDs tried to jump him, he’d more than likely be fine. Something we see in the Manga-He can handle the lower tier ones, but not all 11 at once, and stronger ones can step to him and make him struggle.
Or, roughly, identical to what I said before: He can handle each individually, maybe a few weaker ones, but he’s not a whole ungodly level above the rest. Just mildly/moderately stronger than most of them.
I dunno even know if Toriyama knows where he at anymore
Bro's starting all over with Daima 😂🤔
The editing in these videos is above all the tiers in this list.
I appreciate that bro! 🔥
Yee no kidding
That Gamma 1 and Gamma 2 parallel with Goku and Vegeta is a insane catch!
🔥🔥
Happy thanksgiving CAGE!
Thanks! But we don’t celebrate the holiday in the UK 😂🥳
oh wow you're br*tsh? unsubbed@@CAGExplains
I find it baffling people still try to hold any power scaling in DBS. The vid is great, legit you did a great job - I'm more pointing at fans that I feel like they've not watched/read DB at all.
The cannon is a mess even before DBS with movies, show and manga having different events and lines, but they seemed to keep things mostly together.
But Super? My goodness. . .I was happy to see Roshi be relevant again along with everyone else (except poor Tien) but it made no sense. Like, beating Frieza was mental on DBZ, everyone was like "This is impossible, it'll never happen" but it did and that was in the millions and after so much insane training. And Roshi caught up. . . somehow?? Gohan sure whatever maybe, but then 17 and Krillen? Two that haven't been fighting? But 17 was training while being a park ranger. . . Sure I guess.
It was such a bone headed way of catching people up and it didn't even matter anyway because Ultra instinct and now Ultra Ego and Legend of Kora powers and oh wait Gohan is beyond everyone somehow? . . .
I just see it as Toei asking for more PNG bait for their mobile game and DLC for Xenoverse 2 ( the game that won't bloody die)
I can't remember the last time I watched a Dragon Ball video I entirely agreed with (Beast Gohan disdain aside). Probably another one of your videos, to be honest. Phenomenal content as always, sir!
I appreciate that bro! Glad you enjoyed the video and tolerated my Beast Gohan slander 😂🔥
You'd be a jobbernowl if you agreed with his disingenuous, cherrypicking horsesh#t, mate.
He's wildly incorrect about Beerus. Toriyama's statement regarding Black Frieza was that he was close to the level of A God of Destruction. It likely implies Beerus, given how the current DBS arc is the last of the series (that we know of).
In a recent DBS chapter, Beerus explicitly stated that WHEN Goku becomes more powerful than him, he'll nominate him for the position, therefore meaning that Goku 3 years after the Granolah Arc (when he and Vegeta were both more powerful than Broly without their Ultimate transformations) was still his inferior. Beerus isn't the egotistical type when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Given how Beerus is likely the most powerful GoD (him quickly taking out Champa and nearly killing 5 other Gods), and how this manga arc is the last of Dragon Ball Super, it's likely he's alluding Beerus.
Even so, if you're making the argument that the GoDs are a set tier of power and don't widely differentiate in power (an argument that's quickly dismantled given how quickly Beerus took down Blue Vegeta, whom he stated was GoD-candidate level), then it's incorrect given Toriyama's recent statement regarding Black Frieza's power encroaching on a GoD's power.
You're cherrypicking things that suit your claim, while simultaneously dismissing even things that Toriyama have stated about a character (Jiren, for example) when it doesn't fit your narrative.
Toei didn't inflate anything. In-universe, Jiren was repeatedly stated by MANY characters to be more powerful than his own universe's GoD. This is within canon.
I was wondering when I’d see another video from CAGE. Amazing videos as always bro! 🔥
I appreciate you as always bro! I'll have another video out sooner than you think 🔥
@@CAGExplains bro downplays beerus like crazy
Your videos made me see Dragon Ball Super in a different way. Thank you.
Glad to hear it, thanks for watching the video! 🔥
There's something about your editing style that just hits different bro
Thanks! I’m always trying to improve my style 😤
@@CAGExplains Not just the editing; you hit different bro
Base equals SSG from BOG really is what kicked off the massive inconsistencies in super's powerscaling. Having ramdom cabba equal to or greater than ssg goku from bog is just nuts
Fr.. so yall mean to tell me planet sadala has universe busting saiyans? Kinda bs if u ask me. Also what if they had never reached ssg lv and still faced cabba. They wouldve gotten stomped.
I feel that turned into some kind of outlier later, since they reintroduced the normal SSJ transformations and even SSJGod itself.
@@FagnerLSantos not really as after the U6 tournament, goku in base fought beerus and doing way better than anything goku could ever do as a ssj3. We even see base vegeta as copy vegeta take absolutely nothing from ssj3 gotenks and one shot him in return, indicating that their base forms are way above their peaks in bog
Goku never absorbed SSG in the manga. They either retconned it in the show or decided they didn't care about inconsistencies.
@user-qs1my4zi2b yeah, the manga wasn't as horrible as the anime, but the scaling there is insanely wacky too
Finally a youtuber who makes Dragon Ball content as amazing as Mistare Fusion. I’ve been awaiting a RUclipsr who seems to enjoy power scaling and enjoy fights just on a purely compositional/visual level but also understands story and theming as well as they do.
This video and the one about Goku’s martial artist skill assassination goes further beyond.
I appreciate this comment more than you think, glad you enjoyed the video 🔥
Gohanchads eatin' good for once 🔥
I think in the modern era of Dragon Ball, it's abundantly clear that the strength of characters is what ever the writer wants at that specific moment.
That's how Dragon Ball has been since day 1. You can apply that statement to literally every arc of DB ever written.
"Ultimate Gohan is super saiyan blue tier."
Gohan is such bullshit holy shit Toriyama.
Correct, he should be way above them
Beerus > Goku.
Goku > Jiren.
Jiren > Beerus.
The holy trinity of dragonball scaling.
Awesome video! And the editing is so good to look at!! ❤
I appreciate that bro! Glad you enjoyed the video! 🔥
Man you’re underrated I love the editing, hope you blow up soon
I hope so too man, the RUclips algorithm only promotes my videos when I trash DBS 😂
3:38 this shall forever remain canon in my eyes.
Going off just Toriyama's statements and the movies, I would say this is very accurate. The only questionable placement for me is ultimate Gohan. He had the edge over Gamma 1, but was unable to defeat him, even in a 1v1, so I think he should go a tier down.
I've always hated Power Scaling. It feels like the dragon ball fandom latches on to numbers instead of character and story. So a fight in dragon becomes a math's battle instead of an impactful battle between people with history.
A fair amount of consistency is needed to tell a good story if it centers around battles, but fan obsession with it can be too much sometimes.
The introduction of power levels and its consequences have been a disaster for the dragon ball fandom.
@@CAGExplainsbased take
True
Dragon ball was never about character and story either so you're in for a good treat, truth is that DB lacks both
Dragon ball battle of gods...was ten years ago?💀
your channel has Ohara level of production keep goin CAG
If Whis was only 50% more powerful than Beerus in BoG, how is Whis leagues above SSB Gogeta? This would mean SSB plus fusion is at most a two times multiplication over SSG Goku. That is, if we assume no other power gain was made in-between; otherwise, SSB plus fusion would be even less of an increase.
A fusion between Goku and Vegeta canonically being the strongest Z fighter while Gohan in his top from is the strongest unfused Z fighter... This gives me deja vu to the pre-2013 days, with Vegito and Ultimate("Mystic") Gohan being the strongest characters when discounting non-canon GT characters. It's downright nostalgic.😄
Can’t even hate on the list the explanation is on point
Broly>beerus? Uh
Is it weird that I actually prefer this scaling to what we have in the manga and anime?
It feels a bit cleaner, less jumpy from level to level.
I never liked blue evolved or the ultra instinct forms (especially now that they're dime a dozen-)
So just keeping it to God and Blue is fine by me.
Powerscaling modern DB is hard work
worst mistake Super ever did was stating Goku and Vegeta in base were as strong as ssj god goku in battle of gods. this made everyone that came after stronger than ssj Vegito and Buuhan. cabba, kale, trunks not rage just ssj trunks, all those dogs from that one universe, and both android 17/18. all of them surpassed SSJ Vegito and Buuhan some of these characters by 2-10x stronger than them. how???? complete bs. just dont do it. just erase that quote, and dont have goku turn ssj blue for every single encounter. for the love of god even krillin... urgh.
You're editing is something else (in a good way) as someone who is not a fan of db, but slowly getting into it, powers scaling in Dragon ball Super can be way too confusing for my brain to handle 😭 it was conceivable to me at first (By the various clips of someone using their scouters to see their opponent power level)
But, i think they dropped it that entirely in super, leaving people guessing as to what specific power level someone has. I think it reached to a very confusing point, where power levels of individuals are near vague...but hey, this is speaking from a outsider point of view 💥
But yeah, very nice video you cooked up 👍
Thanks, glad you enjoyed the video! And I think you're right about DBS power scaling this whole list could go out the window if Toriyama ever decides to make another movie 💀
“Just gentlemen, let’s be honest” 😂
It's ironic that once again Gohan is the strongest non fused character just like I'm the buu saga
Top tier editing! 😊
Thanks! 😁
Toriyama on them shrooms 💀💀
Ultimate Gohan is stronger than SSJB Goku and Vegeta? Bullshit. How much farther is he going to reach up in his ass to pull out more and more unearned power?
Toriyama thought the only way to make fans like Gohan again was to make him OP for no reason 💀
I like how this actually takes Toriyamas vision of the series rather than the other continuities where this list would be different.
Toriyamas opinion is basically word of god, so it can't really be ignored easily.
It would be really cool if we could see Toriyama’s script/notes
Dude, thank you for putting this together. Easily one of the best scaling videos I’ve seen. No number arguments, multipliers, or any of all that arbitrary stuff. The best arguments when it comes to scaling I’ve always told friends is author intention. This is the DBS power scale I’ve wanted to see someone do the research and figure out for a long time.
Bruh I can’t believe it’s been over 10 years since battle of gods came out
Great Vid!! But I kinda think your explanation for Beeruss power is kinda in contention due to Toriyama writing that Broly is only probably stronger than Beerus, the same Broly who in Ssj alone made 2 Ssbs run away. 2 Ssbs being Beerus level just doesn’t hold up, since Goku and Vegeta both knew that they couldn’t beat Broly together and Goku considers Broly to only be possibly above Beerus
happy to be part of the 3.4 % :)
Where do you go on the tier list
I personally think the angels would fit better with Gohan Blanco & Gogeta Blue in this scale, but it’s all just for fun.
I think db power levels stoped being linear a couple of hair colors ago so trying to scale the characters a kind of gimnastics that it's ridiculous
Always is a good day when the goat uploads
I appreciate that bro! 🔥
So clean... so simple... after super, this feels like a breath of fresh air. It feels like Z felt.
Which yes, it does mean that the androids and ultimate gohan are absolute bullshit, Toriyama never changed. But even that it's better than what we actually got in super.
Oh my, you used the OST Wrapped in Black from Sonic Rush! Also, I like this tier list. Sounds good.
In the new Chapter Beerus was implying that even TUI goku is still not stronger than him by beerus saying
"If you become stronger than me I might nominate you for God of Destruction"
Yes, I know
This is really damn good God. The best I’ve seen yet. Because you’re able to make sense and eliminate a lot of them fusion that was implemented throughout the power scaling system. Very well done!!!
I actually agree with this it makes alot of sense if you cut out everything from the manga and anime, and just focus soley on the movies the powerscaling makes so much more sense. I have a question though is Moro Granolah Gas and Black Frieza not canon? They do kinda mention Frieza in the superhero movie, but they don't mention any of the other villains.
Edit: also forgot to mention that i think Utimate Piccolo should be in B-tier and Jiren in S-tier, because Piccolo said that the gammas are on par with Goku and Vegeta from the last time he saw them, unless he's seen Goku and Vegeta training and Ultimate Piccolo was beating Gamma 2 until he went full power, but Piccolo was still doing pretty well against the Gamma 2 and wasn't immediately oneshotted so it should be like this.
Current SSB Goku&Vegeta=Gammas full power > Ultimate Piccolo > suppresed Gammas.
Everything else i agree with though.
Ultimate gohan is b tier
The 70% power used thing is actually 1%
Sticking to Toriyama words and his words alone make this series a bit more digestible and understandable.
I couldn't see how Beast is way above that of Gogeta, Granola, Gas and Moro all together. It wasn't adding up.
he’s not 💀
@jaydenlabranche9807 With how the manga is going...it look like it's Canon unfortunately
5:20 missed opportunity to say “your dragon balls will thank you”
Of course a fellow South African would think of that 😂💀 we need help lol
Blue kaioken being able to go past x2 literally ruins power scaling. It implies that ssbe is 20x ssb
No joke it literally is. I cant remember who posted it on twitter but someone from working on the anime basically said vegetas new form at the time (ssbe) was equal to ssb kaioken.
By re-watching this video, many things came to my mind, including if the Broly movie was meant to end differently:
• Since it was stated that at this point a fusion is impossible, this would imply that the movie wasn't meant to showcase Gogeta, so I wonder if Broly was supposed to fight against Goku, Vegeta and Freeza all three together, similarly to the end of the ToP;
• Considering that the "Full Power" Broly was not created by Toriyama, this would put Broly on a lower level, in terms of power, and much more believable that Goku, Vegeta (and possibly Freeza) could take on Broly, probably the main goal was to buy time until he regains consciousness and/or gets teleported back to his planet;
• Also, thinking about what's being said about Goku, Vegeta and Beerus... Shin statement about Vegetto strength, in relation to Beerus, is far more plausible.
There are also other consideration I have in mind, but I don't want to drag this for too long.
CAG uploads its a good day, just discovered Tenacious D too 🎉🎉 this is the day 🤘
I appreciate that bro! Glad you enjoyed the video 🔥
Nice video/Tier list Cage. I also like that you talked about the Gammas being parallels to Goku and Vegeta, i thought i was one of the only people who thought that since i don't hear people talking about it
Glad you enjoyed the video bro! Honestly when you rewatch Super Hero and imagine the Gammas as Goku and Vegeta it's quite interesting, shame they didn't fuse like them as well lol 🤔
That last manga chapter places beerus a lot higher
it is sad to see beerus be that low on the tier list because not only was he hyped up all the time to be "undefeatable", he also has so much writing potential other than "ooh im big grumpy and im gonna destroy your planet if you look at me wrong"
Much like the current state of the DBS Manga, I got nothing substantial to add here (shameless, ik;), just wanted to say the Sonic Rush music here slaps and you are an absolute _king_ for using it.
Edit: is that Tekken as well? CAG u son of a gun, i love you
Bro caught the Tekken 2 OST? A true man of culture! 🔥
I thought when Whis said Goku and Vegeta working together could beat Beerus he meant fusion. If you remember Whis does state in the Broly movie "So you two *can* work together". This would make Beerus the same level as maybe Base/SSJ Gogeta. Just a thought though
Bro beerus took damage because every g.o.d teamed up on him. He almost won too if grand priest didnt stop the fight, although his win against quitella is questionable
Can we just appreciate the effort "CAGE" Casual Anime Guy Explains puts to clap our cheeks with these banging videos 😊
WOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHHH
Pause
AYOOOO! Time out! 💀💀😂
Love the videos man keep it up fr 👍
I think you can put Black Frieza and Granolah in there. Toriyama was involved writing that arc
Toryiama is technicalky speaking involved in everything really.
Yeah we can put BF and Granolah there but Toriyama clearly adapted the plot around Toyotaro’s power scaling. So these characters are irrelevant to this tier list.
I I think modern day Dragon Ball power scaling is broken and look at the big mess that a Toriyama made with the power scaling in his Dragon Ball now
I wonder how many episodes it will take with Daima's power scale to break lol
@@CAGExplains Daima wont have superpowers likely, back to powerlevels under 100
I'm so glad I didn't continue watching DBS, all of this is so god damn stupid lmao
Makes sense.
One problem:
How could Piccolo possibly come to conclusion that Gamma 1 and 2 are on par with Goku and Vegeta? Piccolo cannot sense God Ki so the highest power he could possibly have for Goku is SSJ3. Meaning Gamma 1 and 2 are on par with SSJ3 Goku at best post Broly movie.
He's seen them fight other people whose power he can sense. He can scale them off other what he's seen of them in action.
he can gauge someone's power by watching the person fight
Opening with wrapped in black went extremely hard
Nah we all know whis wasnt smiling from how powerful he was, we all heard the "oh my" when he saw essentially a shirtless version of the best parts of goku and vegeta lmao
Interesting idea and well put together video but let's be honest here.... a good 80-90% of this video is headcanon based on throwaway lines or weird interpretations of toriyamas word/work.
But hey, game is game
19:22 missed opportunity to say final gohan
I love the fact he mentions Gohan blanco
This makes more sense then most.
W video, great content in the absence of Super. What do you think the next movie would be about?
What program you use to edit bro
For Jiren to be so low I just can't accept it, we see how he whooped everyone's ass bro, that's never leaving my memory
This is based off Toryiama’s continuity, Super manga and anime are casual continuation.
Good job trying to make sense of this mess, even though the end result is stupid 😅but we all knew it.
You're damn right it's still stupid, God level androids and Gohan is too damn strong! 😂
Aight, I'm gonna let you have it: Seems fair and accurate to me.
So we have 3 timeline
Movie
Toie
And
Toyotaro
The movie timeline basically has the best powerscaling out of the 3 lol
I didn’t know manscaped was in b-tier
Given the Scaling Toriyama gave us back in the Battle of Gods movie, one could induce this Tier List into that scaling like this:
4 Gohan
5 Frieza, Piccolo
6 Goku SSG, Vegeta SSG
7 Toppo, "Great Ape" Broly
8 Goku SSB , Vegeta SSB, Golden Frieza, Gamma 1 & 2
9 Fused Zamasu, Ultimate Gohan
10 Beerus and the Gods of Destruction
11 Jiren
12 Orange Piccolo
13 Full Power Broly, Cell Max
14 Gogeta Blue, Beast Gohan
15 Whis and the Angels
20 Grand Priest
Zeno is even higher
Obviously, this still doesn't make completely sense but I think it shows that Toriyama tried to be somewhat consistent.
Great video, do you plan to create Discord server one day?
When I have more free time I'll consider it
I LOVE you call Gogeta Blue, Goatgeta Blue, as it it should be
Gogeta has been a long time favorite of mine since Fusion Reborn and your list leaves me feeling justified. Dragonball power scaling logic is beyond reasoning but you helped it make a bit more sense. Ty.
What is the music you used during Jiren's section?
Tekken 2 Emotionless Passion - Kazuya’s Theme
Great video, yeah this tier list isn't accurate to the Super anime or manga continuities scaling, but that wasn't your objective. This would be my version of the ranking (the tiers are ordered):
S tier: Gogeta Blue, Gohan Beast
A tier: SSJ Broly, Cell Max, Jiren
B tier: Merged Zamasu, Orange Piccolo, Golden Frieza, Blue Vegeta, Blue Goku, Toppo
C tier: Ultimate Gohan, Gammas, Ikari Broly
D tier: God Vegeta, God Goku, Base Frieza
E tier: Ultimate Piccolo
Beerus' position is very unknown, I don't think Beerus = Goku + Vegeta Blue applies currently for Toriyama. Btw in the Broly movie in japanese Goku says that Broly is POSSIBLY stronger than Beerus
I would really appreciate a reply or like just so I know you've read this.
Glad you enjoyed the video! I assume your list includes Goku and Vegeta getting stronger between movies?
@@CAGExplains Yeah, thanks for the reply
Aint no way I'm about to let you get away with that banger Streets of Rage 2 opening level theme at 7:47🎧💨
Wildly incorrect about Beerus. Toriyama's statement regarding Black Frieza was that he was close to the level of A God of Destruction.
Furthermore, in a recent DBS chapter, Beerus explicitly stated that WHEN Goku becomes more powerful than him, he'll nominate him for the position, therefore meaning that Goku 3 years after the Granolah Arc (when he and Vegeta were both more powerful than Broly without their Ultimate transformations) was still his inferior. Beerus isn't the egotistical type when it comes to this kind of stuff.
Given how Beerus is likely the most powerful GoD (him quickly taking out Champa and nearly killing 5 other Gods), and how this manga arc is the last of Dragon Ball Super, it's likely he's alluding Beerus.
Even so, if you're making the argument that the GoDs are a set tier of power and don't widely differentiate in power (an argument that's quickly dismantled given how quickly Beerus took down Blue Vegeta, whom he stated was GoD-candidate level), then it's incorrect given Toriyama's recent statement regarding Black Frieza's power encroaching on a GoD's power.
You're cherrypicking things that suit your claim, while simultaneously dismissing even things that Toriyama have stated about a character (Jiren, for example) when it doesn't fit your narrative.
Toei didn't inflate anything. In-universe, Jiren was repeatedly stated by MANY characters to be more powerful than his own universe's GoD. This is within canon.
Complete horsesh#t, mate.
Looks like you couldn't bother to listen to the rules he showed, the scaling sticks to Toriyama's writing and statements only, the manga os written by Toyotaro
I love your content; you are the only Dragon Ball fan who looks at facts and uses their brain instead of their bias and fanboyism
With that said it's time to roast the tier list:
I disagree MASSIVELY with ultimate gohan in A. Are you telling me that Gohan was already stronger than 90% of Super characters all the way back in Buu saga? That in Battle of Gods, the so called Super saiyan God of legends was much much weaker than one of the guys Beerus one shotted? That he could've beat Jiren 1v1, or put up a much better fight than goku and vegeta did? If he was in A tier he should've been dominating Gamma 1 but the fight was very even.
Even putting him in the same level as Blue is too much (in anime ToP he can't do shit against Toppo even with 17's help, and in Manga Moro arc he can't do anything about Saganbo, who Blue goku beats even after further powerups), but i have to accept it as of Super Hero.
Orange Piccolo in S is off-putting for a similar reason: logically speaking it's just too much of a jump for a side character; he couldn't do much more than hold off a weakened Cell Max for a few minutes. "How did he nosell Gamma 2's punches, then?" Maybe A tier power level can already do that. Maybe Gamma 2 wasn't using his full power, was already tiring, or is not as strong as a Blue after all. Toriyama doesn't overthink power scaling and neither should we overthink basically 10 seconds of the film
Another thing is that while Ultra Instinct/Ego and beyond weren't in his original script, it doesnt mean he doesn't acknowledge their existence at all. He has to look at Toyotaro's work from time to time (He actually participated in writing Granolah arc: Toyotaro designed the heeters alongside him iirc, and he designed some of the side characters and Monaito). And if Super were to ever continue he wouldn't just forget about Ultra Instinct like you imply he does. Orange and Beast Gohan have to have been written with Ultra Instinct in mind.
the concept of saiyan beyond god has long since been retconned, so base Frieza in C tier alongside Super Saiyan Gods can't be accurate anymore.
So:
Orange piccolo to the top of A
Ultimate Gohan and the gammas to the bottom of B
Base frieza removed
Ultra Instinct to the top of A (toriyama will have to include it eventually if he doesnt end Dragon Ball for good)
Bro I appreciate you being so reasonable with your disagreement with my tier list. This is the kind of discussion I want to see.
That being said I am curious as to where DBS will go when the Super Hero arc is over next month and we'll get more insight on how strong characters are in relation to one another.