I actually learned more from this lady than anyone else. She too even admitted this was something she has never understood why this fire was different from anything she had ever seen. It goes back to the remodel material used for this building. It must of been very flammable and unsafe just to save money. Just sad all the way around, such a tragedy!
The rule book for tackling this inferno was rendered useless, simply because the rule book for cosmetic renovation/regeneration was completely ignored for the sake of profit.
1) PUblic Housing should always have sprinklers installed especially high rise 2) Should have had more than 1 fire escape for that many people 3) Should have fire alarms in every unit 4) DON'T INSTALL UNSAFE CLADDING IN THE FIRST INSTANCE!
They should have had smoke alarms, fire alarms, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, fire exits. This was a death trap waiting to happen, how can this happen in England and London ? The council was cutting corners, the government spend's billions to the EU every week but cant afford anything for social housings. I don't know what stupid person thought it was safe to use that cheap flammable cladding and what ignorant person thinks a tower block is safe without no fire safety equipment's. This was done deliberately, im not buying the fact it was a fridge explosion.
if you put all this in a building like this it would cost a fortune and the local idiots would steel it all and sell it for scrap, kids would be letting fire extinguishers off and stuff,@@Gencturk92
Firefighter Stress Counselling is Best Provided by WW2 Retired Veteran Fire Fighters. They can Empathize with what the Granfell Tower Fire Fighters are going through.
The "Stay Put Policy" needs to have a big decision box in it labelled "Is the fire under control". As soon as the fire dept realized the fire was out of control, the stay put order should immediately change to "Get Out". And you call back the people you have told to stay put.
When the Alarms go off in my Apartment Building (which has happened), I Do Not Stay Put - The Cat is thrown into her Kitty Carrier and I Am Out The Door & Out Of The Building!!!
That’s one of my biggest fears - getting my two huge cats out in case of a fire. I do have their carriers out as all times - mostly cause they like to sleep in them.
Actually the LFB have an evacuation procedure for tower blocks called 'cascade evacuation'. The 'stay put' policy is plan A for tower blocks, when this in ineffective, plan b is cascade evacuation. An evacuation plan should have been devised and implemented in the first 30 minutes of this incident, then the block would have been emptied by 2.00 am. Cascade evacuation involves evacuating one floor at a time, starting with the floor the fire is on, then the floor above and then the floor below. You then evacuate the upper floors in ascending or descending order, depending on the nature of the fire spread and risk. When the upper floors are clear you then evacuate the lower floors. The floors are evacuated one at a time, so human traffic on the stairwells can be controlled and the fire service can still go about their business uninterrupted. When a fire in a tower block cannot be brought under control and either smoke or fire present a risk to the inhabitants, then a cascade evacuation plan must be implemented.The issues of toxic smoke and gas mains, would not have presented problems in the first hour of this incident. Even with an amount of smoke ingress into the stairwell an evacuation would have been possible. I am loathe to criticise the LFB and its staff, but everyone, and every institution involved in this incident need to cast a forensically critical eye over their own performance and consider and admit what could have been done better
autodidact Escape from the tower was compromised immediately due to thick toxic smoke being present in the stairwell from the start. A resident on the 15th floor reported his landing being full of thick black smoke before 001.20.That was his 1st attempt. It took 3 attempts for him to leave his flat.
It's easy to say the lfb were not equipped or prepared to fight a tower block fire when it's been clad with combustible cladding. The reality is that no one made them aware of the combustible cladding. Other countries that use combustible cladding on high rise have external sprinklers.
The cladding was extremely flammable but also waterproof. Which made it even harder to put the fire out. The firefighters did a very good job under circumstances that they probably hadn’t encountered ever before. Apparently the radios weren’t working properly at times. That meant that the firefighters in the building didn’t know how bad and how quickly the fire was spreading outside the building. If they knew that they would have told the inhabitants of the flats to evacuate a lot quicker than they did.
"Stay put" is not fire service policy, it is a design concept in building regs and design. The TMO took a compartmentalised building and designed out the compartments. The windows were moved out of the opening and gaps blocked with uPVC and other combustible products. The fire was out of the kitchen of flat 16 before the fire fighters entered. It spread behind a waterproof barrier, preventing any water getting to the burning combustible insulation. Grenfell Tower should have had a wet riser (67m high) but only had a dry riser. There would have been little or no water pressure on the upper floors.
Strange how the authorities did not produce a list of names of all residents known to be living there. I'm sure if any residents had stopped paying their rent those in charge would have known exactly who they were.
A most searching interview, one can only admire the fire fighters and the fire service for there selfless work. The blame lies in the political and financial decisions that created the cut price inprovments not those who had to face there consequences.
Trust NoOne the policy was fine, the building wasn’t. They gave the stay put advice because they didn’t know about all the faults in the building and therefore believed that it would work. Had they known about the faults with the building they wouldn’t have given that advice. The stay put advice was designed to work in buildings which obeyed the fire safety regulations. They were under the impression that this building did meet those regulations, because nobody had notified them otherwise, so gave the advice that would normally given.
@Alfie Green because it would a slightly better reach from the areas in which they are actually able to set up, which is pretty much nowhere. She’s an extremely capable firefighter who has been scapegoated.
@Alfie Green they didn’t have a 112 at the time. She has to use the kit she has available to her. Go and look at the access to Grenfell tower. It is ridiculous.
@Alfie Green you definitely couldn’t have done a better job. She’s right that no equipment would have helped them. The way the fire developed, due to the poor construction, made for a disaster. The Stay Put order was the correct one, and would have worked if the building owners had made sure their building was safe, as the fire service expected.
A miracle for them to get respect compassion n a brain. There was no alarms in d building even if there was smoke in communial areas. They should have a fire escape area. Cant say u cant get out in case we need to pass them on d stairs.
They are all passing the buck, protecting themselves. They all failed those in that building. Don’t the fire brigade work in tandem with councils, landlords to make sure buildings meet the appropriate fire and safety standards.
2:46 (...) Yes we had sufficient resources (...) we couldn't physically and put any more people into that building (...) the way they designed a staircase in a high-rise building is not designed the hundreds of people to be coming in and out (...) 2:56 This statement is an eye-opener to me! Staircases are too tight! I'm living in a 23 story high-rise building in which the only staircase is designed for two persons side by side. I don't want to imagine the situation that may happens. Why staircases are small? Money!
better world Most UK highrise buildings were built in the 60' s or before. Legislation was different then! But..... why external fire escapes have not been added over the years, is beyond me!
@@adiabolicalliberty2614 I agree wholeheartedly with you on all the thing's you raised. Fact is, nothing more would have helped.. corners were cut by those in charge of the purse strings!! I was speaking hypothetical re: external fire escape!! Dont believe I've ever seen one on a uk high rise..not one with 20 plus floors anyway!!!
grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/ Fire policy is one thing however the biggest factor is use of materials that were identified in 2000 to be hazardous (refer to link for info) London fire commissioner and the London fire service are NOT accountable for this tragedy.
Alexander Coles You're one of those people who think automatically that the best plan in any given situation guarantees success every time, aren't you? Well look, if they told people to evacuate they would - as stated - clog the stairwell and every time a door was opened more smoke will enter the stairwell which would likely cause panic. Additionally, the only people on the stairs would those below the fires. That means that firefighters would be slowed...stopped.. in their efforts to get those above the fire. The stay in place policy is what's called a B.A.D. decision; one based on the Best Available Data. It's not a guarantee, its the best chance. Look at it this way: When a bear attacks you the best recourse is to play dead. But don't think for a second you're not going to feel pain.
@Alfie Green exactly. That's why the fire policy led to their deaths. We have a culture of not being sued. Every decision is being made around this framework. If someone has given the advice to evacuate and its not the policy they could lose their job and be sued if something went wrong. That's the sad state of our society. Its become a avoid being sued pc mess.
@Alfie Green No it wouldn't. But do you know why ? That building was specifically designed to be 1 pump attendance, fire fought from the inside only. The LFB knew this yet still had it down as a 4 pump minimum attendance. The building was lost in it's entirety by 01.26 due to catastrophic compartment failure. The question is WHY ??? WHAT MECHANISM FORMED THE FIRE BARRIER BETWEEN THE NEWLY SITED WINDOW (18 CM OUTSIDE EXISTING CONCRETE) AND THE WINDOWS ORIGINAL POSITION ??? Answer :- nothing !!! REFER TO INTERVIEW :- Mark Dixon S & D Plastering PLUS a total lack of Cavity Barrier drawings. Osborne Berry / S D Plastering 29th September (2/2) @1:52:00 "There was only one way to do this. The way we done the show flat. Use the Celotex, use the plastics. THIS GAP WAS CRITICAL AND WAS TO BE FILLED WITH 'SIDERISE' FIRE DAM THIS ITEM REINSTATED THE FIRE PROOF CELL STRUCTURE OF EACH FLAT. THIS OMISSION WAS FATAL TO THE ENTIRE BUILDING. The LFB and the residents never stood a chance - so sorry to have to say this.
I don't like this interviewer she asked ridiculous questions, This fire wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the council, They tried their best no building they have been to is built like that
The whole stay put thing for high rise fires came out of the fire at the original MGM Grand (now Bally’s) in 1980. Most of the fatalities died in stairwells and hallways from the smoke, whereas most people who stayed in their rooms until firefighters got them out survived. Of course, unlike Grenfell, this was a more typical high rise fire that they fought from inside.
the cutting cost was the reason why the fire started in the first place in grenfell tower. The council was cutting corners and decided to spend 10 million pound on a cladding that can catch in flames. This is England for you, dont be surprised. We are no different than America just like they had 911.
I've watched several videos concerning the Grenfell Tower fire, and no where has there been any mention of a suppression method such as sprinklers. Was there none installed?
I watched all the film/tv of the Grenfell Tower fire and I live in the US. What I watch apalled me - the London Fire Brigade was using outmoded equipment, the trucks were smaller than anything we use in the states but your Chief said the streets were to smallto handle bigger equipment - well dear chief - that is no damn excuse for the deaths of all those people, on our streets when a fire vehicle is sounding an alarm all vehicles must yield and get out of the way even if they have to go up on a sidewalk, hoses that weren't for high pressure use (which was what was needed to fight this fire and they were so small they couldn't put enough water on the fire, they didn't have proper fire fighting equipment (like trucks with telescoping ladders and hoses). The London Fire Brigade simply wasn't trained to fire a fire like this. Even in my small town here in the states, all firefighters are trained and trained damn well. What distressed me the most that the high rise buildings/towers as you call them have no fire protection systems in the buildings - no alarms, no smoke/fire detectors in main hallways, no fire hose outlets on each floor, only one stairway so narrow only, at most, two people could be going the same way and there was no lighting in the stairway. But the two worst things about Grenfell were the lack of instructions to evacuate the building in the event of ANY fire and fire escape route. Those people died and they shouldn't have died. The building had signs posted saying stay in your unit because it will be safe for you until firefighters arrive. That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. In the United States when there is a fire in a building, any type of building, people are told to get out as soon as possible. But there is one thing that towers over everything and that is that you don't inspect your buildings to see if they are fire safe - in the US every building more than 3 stories high is checked by trained fire inspectors every one to to two years and if the building doesn't comply it is shutdown. I'm sure your firefighters tried their best but they weren't properly trained and that goes on the head of the London Fire Brigade. I'm sorry but there simply is no excuse for a city the size of London to have such poor fire fighting ability.
Yet another in no doubt a long line of possible culprits that are fighting to save their jobs over this tragedy. I have not listened to the full I nterview but to say only a miracle could have prevented this disaster is wide of the mark. What could and should have prevented this were those officials doing their highly paid jobs and being proactive instead of reactive. Unfortunately for those sad victims and their loved ones these empty platitudes should do nothing to overcome the anger and grief caused by incompetence and greed which is at the heart of Westminster Government and English society in general. I feel for you.and so grateful I live in Scotland where at least we are striving for a better fairer and decent future from Independence.
GERRY ROBBERTSON *saved not prevented. The video is about fighting the fire and the role of the fire brigade, which has nothing to do with the carelessness of those responsible for this catastrophe.
My heartfelt sympathy goes to all involved and those who lost their lives. The firefighters did all they could. R.I.P +GERRY ROBBERTSON +Bear Wolf + A Musa Give it a rest will you? Dream on Gerry mate lol because it won't happen! There's no appetite for it and nobody wants it now. We said no in 2014 and truth be told, be grateful for the Union instead of wishing disaster on this country. Still waiting for wee Sturgeon to produce facts and figures for her end. At least the Tories are standing up for Scotland's majority vote that year compared to Nicola. What A Musa said is right.
I appreciate that and I have every respect for those brave fire fighters that risked their lives in saving the residents but the fact remains the Fire authority along with Tory Council officials and not least national government had a duty to ensure these and all similar buildings were safe and all reasonable Fire prevention standards and materials used were suitable were enforced. It is thiose in authority and I include the Fire authority to set acceptable standards and while I recognise she and her colleagues maybe entirely blameless you cannot escape the fact that the standards were not rigid enough and implemented.
Be grateful for a Union that has deceived and stripped Scotland of its wealth? In 201Scots voted to remain based on the lies and failed promises perpetrated by Unionist filth - £200bn investment in NS Oil, HMRC jobs, MOD ships, THE FAMOUS VOW that never was. Threats over Penions, currency union, EU membership etc the list goes on and probably the grewatest deception was skewed OBR economic figures that showed Scotland was once again too poor and too small to cope. Well we are coping just fine (see Wings over Scotland) despite the Tories. The Tories standing up for Scotland in what exactly? They did nothing about scrapping Public sector pay cap, Wellfare benefits reform, bedroom tax, destroyed public sector housing which has increased homelessness and as for defending the Fishing ind is laughable they sold out Scotland as a compromise to the EU which decimated fishing communities. Ruth Davidson said before EU ref leaving would be a disaster for Scotland yet now she thinks that magically it will be OK!!! The Tories will never standup for Scotland as you will see from the latest Tory press reports on Lowest unemployment, best Rail service, best NHS waiting times. highest economic growth, highest Inward Investment. I repeat what exactly have the Tories done for Scotland ? I look forward to your short response.. .
apparently the doors in the building were meant to stop the fire for 30 mins, but it only lasted 15 mins. It must have been the greedy council again with there stupid refurbishments or knowledge of health and safety, not the residents of the building. btw, if you think this fire was an accident, have a look at the wikipedia page and look what it says: In November 2016, GAG published online an article attacking KCTMO as an "evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia" and accusing the council of ignoring health and safety laws. GAG suggested that "only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of [KCTMO]", adding, "[We] predict that it won't be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath [sic] and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can't say that they haven't been warned!"[56] The group had also published other articles criticising fire safety and maintenance practices at Grenfell Tower.[57] The Grenfell Tower Leaseholders' Association had also raised concerns about exposed gas pipes in the months before the fire.[58]
There were no fire doors, neither the doors on the flats or the one on the staircases, they weren't refurbished. If there were, how did they not prevent the fire for a certain duration of time ? arent fire doors in UK meant to give you 30 mins-2 hours of time before the fire enters your flat ? and what are you talking about "The rest of your post could easily be applied to any number of blocks in london since the 2000s" ? Im talking about whether this was done deliberately or not. just like it said "[We] predict that it won't be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath [sic] and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can't say that they haven't been warned!
how many tower blocks have been caught on fire and spread like this in the middle of the night ? the fire commissioner and the news said this is the first major incident in UK history since the war. The Lakanal house fire didnt happen in the middle of the night and the whole building didnt go up in flames like grenfell did and the death toll has never been higher than grenfell.
People want to blame ,I have seen victims trying to blame the fore brigade ,I don't think they did anything wrong,the stay put was the wrong call ,BUT ,it would have been the right call if the cladding would not have made the fire spread.So the bottom line is as she said ,the fire wasn't following the rule book.Mabe they should have been more flexible with thier thinking
Is she even a human? Or a robot with pre-recorded sentences. STAY PUT. OUR POLICY. STAY PUT. Someone with such responsible position needs imagination apart from memorizing policies, that clearly had no use when the whole building was on fire and everyone with common sense could see it.
im amazed in one of the biggest fire service in country the PDA was no ALPs. londons full of flats. tech 197 bulletin says the BA bridge head has to be 2 floors under fire. being on the 2nd floor is useless in a 22 floor building. BA wearers have to reach a big distance to rescue people & return under air. the occupiers where doomed to die.
Paul Schewene. As an ambulance man in the 60s and from the programme Londons burning I suspect there is a lot of theatrical going on, I am sick of women taking over, Maggie Thatcher, Sturgeon , Jo Swinson, Myrkle, Arlene Foster .. (Germany) and the men just fold and let them take over , indicating a weakness of men , in my time it would never happen, I could say that my family were heroic but I would never court support for expressing my opinion as I could say I was on 5131 Bomb disposal sqn before leaving the RAF and was a hero, but would never tell you what I and my colleagues dealt with to support the argument in question. You have! So you should not involve your family history to support the argument. but I accept it's natural ,I am not interested in your families contribution to saving of life , I have no doubt it was exemplary, I have replied to YOU the way I see it and it still is a democracy.....End of..
Lewis Rice utter bollocks what experience have you got?Putting out incipient bon fires with garden hoses!In fact a couple of air bags were deployed.Those BA sets in the videos are only short term I as a young fire fighter would cut them out in 11 mins while under pressure.I have spent many hours on Proto Mark four and five.Fire fighters using the compressed air sets would soon run out of air.
The Hoses being used were a 45mm. Both EDBA and SDBA sets were used. Air bags are not used for rescues during firefighting as people die. How can you as a young firefighter consider that?
A miracle and somebody who doesn't think the apogee of fire fighting is pink iphones and rainbow epaulettes and paintings strategically positioned in the background.
So buttons on yer underwear. So; that was an easy one, huh? So long , Mr. English and so much for not starting a sentence with "so". Sew from now on we shall call you the "No So-ing Machine"!! I will be Fros-T the So Man. No, this is even better, I shall be Kaiser Sosay ! Because I say so....all the time. Isn't that so? Okay , time for bed , I get so sarcastic,but its because I am so tired. oooh, low blow.
Commissioner Dany Cotton, she could have been the miracle if only she studied other fires like this in not only her country. It happened in France, and other cities of the middle East. The only thing was that she could have learned of these fires off the Internet and taken pains to deal with the plastic materials that were being installed, then she would have been the miracle. Prevention takes knowledge of new construction.
She was Sacked I keep saying , She will receive a payout of a million pound and a pension to boot what for Negligence ..Go home and wash up or Hoover ,it is a mans job...........
Isn't it odd that there is not ONE picture or video footage of a fireman who looks like he had tackled a fire, no soot, no sweat no fuck all anywhere. How odd eh?
How can you say that when there was video footage of them in the building as they was already in the building fighting the first fire and people coming down the stairs with phone cameras recording and passing firefighters that was on their way up to the fire why blame the fire service could you do that job but if you want to blame somebody blame the government and the local council for cost cutting to line their own pockets like councils and government always do to the working class people
The fire department did the best possible job they could up against a monster they had never faced before.
I actually learned more from this lady than anyone else. She too even admitted this was something she has never understood why this fire was different from anything she had ever seen. It goes back to the remodel material used for this building. It must of been very flammable and unsafe just to save money. Just sad all the way around, such a tragedy!
see mine below Ronnie
The rule book for tackling this inferno was rendered useless, simply because the rule book for cosmetic renovation/regeneration was completely ignored for the sake of profit.
A miracle and proper building material.
And sprinklers
Or even extremely heavy heavy rain possibly.
A miracle and non flammable cladding and fire stoppers replaced on all the floors and the exposed gas pipe's covered with fire proof boxing! !
1) PUblic Housing should always have sprinklers installed especially high rise 2) Should have had more than 1 fire escape for that many people 3) Should have fire alarms in every unit 4) DON'T INSTALL UNSAFE CLADDING IN THE FIRST INSTANCE!
They should have had smoke alarms, fire alarms, sprinklers, fire extinguishers, fire exits. This was a death trap waiting to happen, how can this happen in England and London ? The council was cutting corners, the government spend's billions to the EU every week but cant afford anything for social housings. I don't know what stupid person thought it was safe to use that cheap flammable cladding and what ignorant person thinks a tower block is safe without no fire safety equipment's. This was done deliberately, im not buying the fact it was a fridge explosion.
if you put all this in a building like this it would cost a fortune and the local idiots would steel it all and sell it for scrap, kids would be letting fire extinguishers off and stuff,@@Gencturk92
Telling residents to stay put was completely wrong
Firefighter Stress Counselling is Best Provided by WW2 Retired Veteran Fire Fighters. They can Empathize with what the Granfell Tower Fire Fighters are going through.
The "Stay Put Policy" needs to have a big decision box in it labelled "Is the fire under control". As soon as the fire dept realized the fire was out of control, the stay put order should immediately change to "Get Out". And you call back the people you have told to stay put.
yes! why did the stupid firefighters tell residents to stay put? they are dumbasses!
Guy Rutledge that happened
because it was done deliberately, the authorities were already aware of it and did everything they can for people to be perished.
The doors and windows were not up to the standard that they should have been. LFB would not know that
Guy Rutledge they could of tried to get out and died of suffocation
When the Alarms go off in my Apartment Building (which has happened), I Do Not Stay Put - The Cat is thrown into her Kitty Carrier and I Am Out The Door & Out Of The Building!!!
Basically, when the Alarms Go Off, I go straight into 'Every Man For Himself' Mode!
That’s one of my biggest fears - getting my two huge cats out in case of a fire. I do have their carriers out as all times - mostly cause they like to sleep in them.
If you are not old get out
Actually the LFB have an evacuation procedure for tower blocks called 'cascade evacuation'. The 'stay put' policy is plan A for tower blocks, when this in ineffective, plan b is cascade evacuation. An evacuation plan should have been devised and implemented in the first 30 minutes of this incident, then the block would have been emptied by 2.00 am.
Cascade evacuation involves evacuating one floor at a time, starting with the floor the fire is on, then the floor above and then the floor below. You then evacuate the upper floors in ascending
or descending order, depending on the nature of the fire spread and risk. When the upper floors are clear you then evacuate the lower floors. The floors are evacuated one at a time, so human traffic on the stairwells can be controlled
and the fire service can still go about their business uninterrupted.
When a fire in a tower block cannot be brought under control and either smoke or fire present a
risk to the inhabitants, then a cascade evacuation plan must be implemented.The issues of toxic smoke and gas mains, would not have presented problems in the first hour of this incident.
Even with an amount of smoke ingress into the stairwell an evacuation would have been possible.
I am loathe to criticise the LFB and its staff, but everyone, and every institution involved in this incident
need to cast a forensically critical eye over their own performance and consider and admit what could have been done better
autodidact
Escape from the tower was compromised immediately due to thick toxic smoke being present in the stairwell from the start.
A resident on the 15th floor reported his landing being full of thick black smoke before 001.20.That was his 1st attempt. It took 3 attempts for him to leave his flat.
It's easy to say the lfb were not equipped or prepared to fight a tower block fire when it's been clad with combustible cladding.
The reality is that no one made them aware of the combustible cladding. Other countries that use combustible cladding on high rise have external sprinklers.
She is a top women and super professional. Respect to Danny cotton 👍✌
Those firefighters really did do their very best, but it was just too much.
It was a monster against the firefighters
Big credit to them
Grenfell was a death trap to start with but only when something tragic happened news got around about how unsafe it was 😔
The cladding was extremely flammable but also waterproof. Which made it even harder to put the fire out. The firefighters did a very good job under circumstances that they probably hadn’t encountered ever before. Apparently the radios weren’t working properly at times. That meant that the firefighters in the building didn’t know how bad and how quickly the fire was spreading outside the building. If they knew that they would have told the inhabitants of the flats to evacuate a lot quicker than they did.
"Stay put" is not fire service policy, it is a design concept in building regs and design. The TMO took a compartmentalised building and designed out the compartments. The windows were moved out of the opening and gaps blocked with uPVC and other combustible products. The fire was out of the kitchen of flat 16 before the fire fighters entered. It spread behind a waterproof barrier, preventing any water getting to the burning combustible insulation.
Grenfell Tower should have had a wet riser (67m high) but only had a dry riser. There would have been little or no water pressure on the upper floors.
Strange how the authorities did not produce a list of names of all residents known to be living there. I'm sure if any residents had stopped paying their rent those in charge would have known exactly who they were.
THE BUILDING FAILED OBVIOUSLY !!!!
A most searching interview, one can only admire the fire fighters and the fire service for there selfless work. The blame lies in the political and financial decisions that created the cut price inprovments not those who had to face there consequences.
People criticising her and the LFB have absolutely no clue.
Trust NoOne the policy was fine, the building wasn’t. They gave the stay put advice because they didn’t know about all the faults in the building and therefore believed that it would work. Had they known about the faults with the building they wouldn’t have given that advice.
The stay put advice was designed to work in buildings which obeyed the fire safety regulations. They were under the impression that this building did meet those regulations, because nobody had notified them otherwise, so gave the advice that would normally given.
um no
@Alfie Green because it would a slightly better reach from the areas in which they are actually able to set up, which is pretty much nowhere. She’s an extremely capable firefighter who has been scapegoated.
@Alfie Green they didn’t have a 112 at the time. She has to use the kit she has available to her. Go and look at the access to Grenfell tower. It is ridiculous.
@Alfie Green you definitely couldn’t have done a better job. She’s right that no equipment would have helped them. The way the fire developed, due to the poor construction, made for a disaster. The Stay Put order was the correct one, and would have worked if the building owners had made sure their building was safe, as the fire service expected.
A miracle for them to get respect compassion n a brain. There was no alarms in d building even if there was smoke in communial areas. They should have a fire escape area. Cant say u cant get out in case we need to pass them on d stairs.
They are all passing the buck, protecting themselves. They all failed those in that building. Don’t the fire brigade work in tandem with councils, landlords to make sure buildings meet the appropriate fire and safety standards.
2:46 (...) Yes we had sufficient resources (...) we couldn't physically and put any more people into that building (...) the way they designed a staircase in a high-rise building is not designed the hundreds of people to be coming in and out (...) 2:56
This statement is an eye-opener to me! Staircases are too tight! I'm living in a 23 story high-rise building in which the only staircase is designed for two persons side by side. I don't want to imagine the situation that may happens.
Why staircases are small? Money!
better world
Most UK highrise buildings were built in the 60' s or before. Legislation was different then! But..... why external fire escapes have not been added over the years, is beyond me!
@@adiabolicalliberty2614
I agree wholeheartedly with you on all the thing's you raised.
Fact is, nothing more would have helped.. corners were cut by those in charge of the purse strings!!
I was speaking hypothetical re: external fire escape!!
Dont believe I've ever seen one on a uk high rise..not one with 20 plus floors anyway!!!
they visited tower few days before this incident and told people to stay put with no f*** sprinklers and yes now only miracle could of saved them
People were told to stay put 2-3 times. So fire policy contributed to people losing their lives.
Rosco Pico, It wouldn't, that fire was always going to happen whoever was in the block.
grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/
Fire policy is one thing however the biggest factor is use of materials that were identified in 2000 to be hazardous (refer to link for info)
London fire commissioner and the London fire service are NOT accountable for this tragedy.
Alexander Coles
You're one of those people who think automatically that the best plan in any given situation guarantees success every time, aren't you? Well look, if they told people to evacuate they would - as stated - clog the stairwell and every time a door was opened more smoke will enter the stairwell which would likely cause panic. Additionally, the only people on the stairs would those below the fires. That means that firefighters would be slowed...stopped.. in their efforts to get those above the fire. The stay in place policy is what's called a B.A.D. decision; one based on the Best Available Data. It's not a guarantee, its the best chance.
Look at it this way: When a bear attacks you the best recourse is to play dead. But don't think for a second you're not going to feel pain.
@Alfie Green exactly. That's why the fire policy led to their deaths. We have a culture of not being sued. Every decision is being made around this framework. If someone has given the advice to evacuate and its not the policy they could lose their job and be sued if something went wrong. That's the sad state of our society. Its become a avoid being sued pc mess.
DANY COTTON You've got my vote girl !
@Alfie Green No it wouldn't. But do you know why ? That building was specifically designed to be 1 pump attendance, fire fought from the inside only. The LFB knew this yet still had it down as a 4 pump minimum attendance.
The building was lost in it's entirety by 01.26 due to catastrophic compartment failure.
The question is WHY ???
WHAT MECHANISM FORMED THE FIRE BARRIER BETWEEN THE NEWLY SITED WINDOW (18 CM OUTSIDE EXISTING CONCRETE) AND THE WINDOWS ORIGINAL POSITION ???
Answer :- nothing !!!
REFER TO INTERVIEW :-
Mark Dixon
S & D Plastering
PLUS a total lack of Cavity Barrier drawings.
Osborne Berry / S D Plastering 29th September (2/2) @1:52:00
"There was only one way to do this. The way we done the show flat. Use the Celotex, use the plastics.
THIS GAP WAS CRITICAL AND WAS TO BE FILLED WITH 'SIDERISE' FIRE DAM
THIS ITEM REINSTATED THE FIRE PROOF CELL STRUCTURE OF EACH FLAT.
THIS OMISSION WAS FATAL TO THE ENTIRE BUILDING.
The LFB and the residents never stood a chance - so sorry to have to say this.
@Alfie Green pure desperation
I don't like this interviewer she asked ridiculous questions, This fire wouldn't have happened if it wasn't for the council, They tried their best no building they have been to is built like that
The whole stay put thing for high rise fires came out of the fire at the original MGM Grand (now Bally’s) in 1980. Most of the fatalities died in stairwells and hallways from the smoke, whereas most people who stayed in their rooms until firefighters got them out survived. Of course, unlike Grenfell, this was a more typical high rise fire that they fought from inside.
NO airbags, no long term BA for firefighters, fire trucks running short of crew members.LFB trying to cut costs then?
bernard clarke Air bags? No brigade any where in the world uses airbags. Extended duration BA sets were used.
the cutting cost was the reason why the fire started in the first place in grenfell tower. The council was cutting corners and decided to spend 10 million pound on a cladding that can catch in flames. This is England for you, dont be surprised. We are no different than America just like they had 911.
Nobody will ever 'stay put' again.....
I've watched several videos concerning the Grenfell Tower fire, and no where has there been any mention of a suppression method such as sprinklers. Was there none installed?
I doubt very much there were any sprinklers installed in the building.
No there was no sprinklers installed and most of the fire doors were found to be poor quality x
@@davidlawel9747 Thanks, as a retired Fire Safety Inspector I thought that the case.
@@DavidSmith-ez4pk no worries! it was tragic as it could so easily have been prevented with the correct precautions and safety measures in place x
I watched all the film/tv of the Grenfell Tower fire and I live in the US. What I watch apalled me - the London Fire Brigade was using outmoded equipment, the trucks were smaller than anything we use in the states but your Chief said the streets were to smallto handle bigger equipment - well dear chief - that is no damn excuse for the deaths of all those people, on our streets when a fire vehicle is sounding an alarm all vehicles must yield and get out of the way even if they have to go up on a sidewalk, hoses that weren't for high pressure use (which was what was needed to fight this fire and they were so small they couldn't put enough water on the fire, they didn't have proper fire fighting equipment (like trucks with telescoping ladders and hoses). The London Fire Brigade simply wasn't trained to fire a fire like this. Even in my small town here in the states, all firefighters are trained and trained damn well. What distressed me the most that the high rise buildings/towers as you call them have no fire protection systems in the buildings - no alarms, no smoke/fire detectors in main hallways, no fire hose outlets on each floor, only one stairway so narrow only, at most, two people could be going the same way and there was no lighting in the stairway. But the two worst things about Grenfell were the lack of instructions to evacuate the building in the event of ANY fire and fire escape route. Those people died and they shouldn't have died. The building had signs posted saying stay in your unit because it will be safe for you until firefighters arrive. That is the most stupid thing I have ever heard. In the United States when there is a fire in a building, any type of building, people are told to get out as soon as possible. But there is one thing that towers over everything and that is that you don't inspect your buildings to see if they are fire safe - in the US every building more than 3 stories high is checked by trained fire inspectors every one to to two years and if the building doesn't comply it is shutdown. I'm sure your firefighters tried their best but they weren't properly trained and that goes on the head of the London Fire Brigade. I'm sorry but there simply is no excuse for a city the size of London to have such poor fire fighting ability.
but they told people in the twin towers on 9/11 to stay inside the building aswell, but i agree with everything else you said.
Yet another in no doubt a long line of possible culprits that are fighting to save their jobs over this tragedy. I have not listened to the full I nterview but to say only a miracle could have prevented this disaster is wide of the mark. What could and should have prevented this were those officials doing their highly paid jobs and being proactive instead of reactive. Unfortunately for those sad victims and their loved ones these empty platitudes should do nothing to overcome the anger and grief caused by incompetence and greed which is at the heart of Westminster Government and English society in general. I feel for you.and so grateful I live in Scotland where at least we are striving for a better fairer and decent future from Independence.
100%
GERRY ROBBERTSON *saved not prevented. The video is about fighting the fire and the role of the fire brigade, which has nothing to do with the carelessness of those responsible for this catastrophe.
My heartfelt sympathy goes to all involved and those who lost their lives. The firefighters did all they could. R.I.P
+GERRY ROBBERTSON +Bear Wolf + A Musa Give it a rest will you? Dream on Gerry mate lol because it won't happen! There's no appetite for it and nobody wants it now. We said no in 2014 and truth be told, be grateful for the Union instead of wishing disaster on this country. Still waiting for wee Sturgeon to produce facts and figures for her end. At least the Tories are standing up for Scotland's majority vote that year compared to Nicola.
What A Musa said is right.
I appreciate that and I have every respect for those brave fire fighters that risked their lives in saving the residents but the fact remains the Fire authority along with Tory Council officials and not least national government had a duty to ensure these and all similar buildings were safe and all reasonable Fire prevention standards and materials used were suitable were enforced. It is thiose in authority and I include the Fire authority to set acceptable standards and while I recognise she and her colleagues maybe entirely blameless you cannot escape the fact that the standards were not rigid enough and implemented.
Be grateful for a Union that has deceived and stripped Scotland of its wealth? In 201Scots voted to remain based on the lies and failed promises perpetrated by Unionist filth - £200bn investment in NS Oil, HMRC jobs, MOD ships, THE FAMOUS VOW that never was. Threats over Penions, currency union, EU membership etc the list goes on and probably the grewatest deception was skewed OBR economic figures that showed Scotland was once again too poor and too small to cope. Well we are coping just fine (see Wings over Scotland) despite the Tories. The Tories standing up for Scotland in what exactly? They did nothing about scrapping Public sector pay cap, Wellfare benefits reform, bedroom tax, destroyed public sector housing which has increased homelessness and as for defending the Fishing ind is laughable they sold out Scotland as a compromise to the EU which decimated fishing communities. Ruth Davidson said before EU ref leaving would be a disaster for Scotland yet now she thinks that magically it will be OK!!! The Tories will never standup for Scotland as you will see from the latest Tory press reports on Lowest unemployment, best Rail service, best NHS waiting times. highest economic growth, highest Inward Investment. I repeat what exactly have the Tories done for Scotland ? I look forward to your short response.. .
Well the only answer is to keep people safe and save people’s lives is not to build any more high-rises and knock down the ones that remain
This is the worse thing that has happened in my life time & British Government well and truly showed their true colours
I didn’t know that sprinklers were miracles?
How can it happen that a Building is Lacking of Fire Safety Doors? - The Answer: Apathy!
Mandated fire safety inspections would have revealed the lack of fire doors, the lack of fire blocks around the gas pipes, etc.
there were no fire doors
apparently the doors in the building were meant to stop the fire for 30 mins, but it only lasted 15 mins. It must have been the greedy council again with there stupid refurbishments or knowledge of health and safety, not the residents of the building. btw, if you think this fire was an accident, have a look at the wikipedia page and look what it says:
In November 2016, GAG published online an article attacking KCTMO as an "evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia" and accusing the council of ignoring health and safety laws. GAG suggested that "only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of [KCTMO]", adding, "[We] predict that it won't be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath [sic] and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can't say that they haven't been warned!"[56] The group had also published other articles criticising fire safety and maintenance practices at Grenfell Tower.[57] The Grenfell Tower Leaseholders' Association had also raised concerns about exposed gas pipes in the months before the fire.[58]
There were no fire doors, neither the doors on the flats or the one on the staircases, they weren't refurbished. If there were, how did they not prevent the fire for a certain duration of time ? arent fire doors in UK meant to give you 30 mins-2 hours of time before the fire enters your flat ?
and what are you talking about "The rest of your post could easily be applied to any number of blocks in london since the 2000s" ? Im talking about whether this was done deliberately or not. just like it said
"[We] predict that it won't be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath [sic] and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can't say that they haven't been warned!
how many tower blocks have been caught on fire and spread like this in the middle of the night ? the fire commissioner and the news said this is the first major incident in UK history since the war. The Lakanal house fire didnt happen in the middle of the night and the whole building didnt go up in flames like grenfell did and the death toll has never been higher than grenfell.
People want to blame ,I have seen victims trying to blame the fore brigade ,I don't think they did anything wrong,the stay put was the wrong call ,BUT ,it would have been the right call if the cladding would not have made the fire spread.So the bottom line is as she said ,the fire wasn't following the rule book.Mabe they should have been more flexible with thier thinking
Typifies London today...majority of deaths were foreigners and immigrants.. very sad and tragic incident.
Is she even a human? Or a robot with pre-recorded sentences. STAY PUT. OUR POLICY. STAY PUT. Someone with such responsible position needs imagination apart from memorizing policies, that clearly had no use when the whole building was on fire and everyone with common sense could see it.
Yea but wouldn't u of rather the 100 of people come down then die it was a out of control fire u couldn't contain it anyways
im amazed in one of the biggest fire service in country the PDA was no ALPs. londons full of flats.
tech 197 bulletin says the BA bridge head has to be 2 floors under fire. being on the 2nd floor is useless in a 22 floor building. BA wearers have to reach a big distance to rescue people & return under air. the occupiers where doomed to die.
Common Purpose Danny Cotton.
Awoken - been asleep for a hundred years. No knowledge of firefighting. Back to sleep.
paranoia is not dead..... just read below.
Who knew God had a monopoly on sprinkler systems and evacuation plans...
I got out of it that following policy is much more important than rescuing people.
Everyone should checkout my reply to flykj . It's the blue circle with F in the middle.
utter bull!
Paul Schewene.
As an ambulance man in the 60s and from the programme Londons burning I suspect there is a lot of theatrical going on, I am sick of women taking over, Maggie Thatcher, Sturgeon , Jo Swinson, Myrkle, Arlene Foster .. (Germany) and the men just fold and let them take over , indicating a weakness of men , in my time it would never happen, I could say that my family were heroic but I would never court support for expressing my opinion as I could say I was on 5131 Bomb disposal sqn before leaving the RAF and was a hero, but would never tell you what I and my colleagues dealt with to support the argument in question. You have! So you should not involve your family history to support the argument. but I accept it's natural ,I am not interested in your families contribution to saving of life , I have no doubt it was exemplary, I have replied to YOU the way I see it and it still is a democracy.....End of..
Lewis Rice utter bollocks what experience have you got?Putting out incipient bon fires with garden hoses!In fact a couple of air bags were deployed.Those BA sets in the videos are only short term I as a young fire fighter would cut them out in 11 mins while under pressure.I have spent many hours on Proto Mark four and five.Fire fighters using the compressed air sets would soon run out of air.
bernard clarke 14 years. Air bags? No one uses air bags! What are you going on about?
The Hoses being used were a 45mm. Both EDBA and SDBA sets were used. Air bags are not used for rescues during firefighting as people die. How can you as a young firefighter consider that?
Yea what is he talking about..... what are these air bags you are talking about ????
I think he is talking about air bags we use at road traffic collisions to lift vehicles
He might be on about 'fire hood's ' .. we don't use them in the UK.
A miracle and somebody who doesn't think the apogee of fire fighting is pink iphones and rainbow epaulettes and paintings strategically positioned in the background.
"So" is a conjunction not a sentence starter.
Denis Nash Go away
emcdavee
No. You go away.
emcdavee
Starting her interview with 'So' is management speak. Not needed in this situation.
But, you can start a sentence with a conjunction.
So buttons on yer underwear. So; that was an easy one, huh? So long , Mr. English and so much for not starting a sentence with "so". Sew from now on we shall call you the "No So-ing Machine"!! I will be Fros-T the So Man. No, this is even better, I shall be Kaiser Sosay ! Because I say so....all the time. Isn't that so? Okay , time for bed , I get so sarcastic,but its because I am so tired. oooh, low blow.
Commissioner Dany Cotton, she could have been the miracle if only she studied other fires like this in not only her country. It happened in France, and other cities of the middle East. The only thing was that she could have learned of these fires off the Internet and taken pains to deal with the plastic materials that were being installed, then she would have been the miracle. Prevention takes knowledge of new construction.
She was Sacked I keep saying , She will receive a payout of a million pound and a pension to boot what for Negligence ..Go home and wash up or Hoover ,it is a mans job...........
Isn't it odd that there is not ONE picture or video footage of a fireman who looks like he had tackled a fire, no soot, no sweat no fuck all anywhere. How odd eh?
How can you say that when there was video footage of them in the building as they was already in the building fighting the first fire and people coming down the stairs with phone cameras recording and passing firefighters that was on their way up to the fire why blame the fire service could you do that job but if you want to blame somebody blame the government and the local council for cost cutting to line their own pockets like councils and government always do to the working class people
Telly watcher!