I actually made this video a year ago but decided not to upload it, as I feared the Avatar channel would come after me. But one year later, I decided to upload it anyway. Enjoy! Also, here's the video in question: ruclips.net/video/jXGtdF4oJI4/видео.html&ab_channel=Avatar%3ATheLastAirbender
Another point on the Agni Kai: Iroh didn't interfere with the Agni Kai against Zhao. Zuko won the Agni Kai, and Zhao tried to launch a sneak attack while Zuko had his back turned. That's when Iroh stepped in.
Yes! Iron stepped in after Zhao had lost, if anything he was a referee protecting Zuko once the match was called. The honor of the duel had been satisfied, then Zhao threw the rules and sense of honor out the window.
How is it that the people put in charge of every pop culture franchise seem to actively hate that franchise and attempt to undermine it? Why is it that fans have to come to a franchise's defence against the people representing the franchise itself? Something is seriously wrong in the entertainment industry.
Because sadly most of the fans are content with only being observers, to only watch and enjoy. They don't want to take part, in any way, in the maintaining and continuation of the material itself.
Simply because they know it will generate clicks/comments that give them their revenue and that's all they care about. Majority of "official" fandom channels are like this.
I didn't take their vid as hate. It's just a vid from a diff perspective on a character that draws discussion, which is good for their franchise. Not saying all their arguments were completely valid as MovieFlame has pointed out and debunked some, but yea it's just nuance to think about
@@flo4606 Yeah I was laughing my behind off at how over the top the videos’ explanations were and how MovieFlame called them out for it Hey, would any of you like to hear some of my unpopular avatar related opinions
Rewriting history makes a new culture and world they want to control and influence for themselves, like it is written in utopia (and by example for references, Ba Sing Se) control the narrative and no one will think for themselves or question what's really happening.
@@lilunette9319 same! He sounded like one of those aggressive gamers trying to force their opinion on you. Unlike from Morgan, I didn't see any well explained facts or arguments!
You were deceived dont you see it? Everything Iroh has done, every wise sentence he has spoken, was done to pit zuko and avatar against the firelord, who just wanted to share the fire nations prosperity throughout their world, and that only to take revenge against his father who disinherited him.
@@Neurogenesis1251 Then why didn’t he become the firelord? Iroh didn’t care about power after his son died. It was like his world was shattered and it shifted the way he looked at everything
I'd say the main reason Iroh was able to step in during the Zuko-Zhao Agni kai, was because it was already finished. Zuko had won. Iroh didn't step in when Zuko was about to lose the very same fight, (the part where Zuko is on his back, right before he did that awesome spin kick from the ground). He knows Zuko has to fight his own battles, and he knows how important honor is to Zuko, also.
Also, also, the whole point of an Agni Kai is honorable combat. Zhao behaved dishonorably by trying to attack his opponent when his back was turned. He STOPPED Zhao from hurting his own honor even more.
Btw, didn't Iroh step in during that Zhao vs Zuko scene after Zuko already won and spared Zhao? The Agni Kai was already over, the result was clear and Zhao tried to sneak attack Zuko as he was walking away from Zhao with his back turned to him. So Iroh had every right to step in and stop Zhao here as at that point Zhao did a truly disgusting disonorable thing. This is way different from the situation with the Agni Kai between Zuko and Ozai
The fact anyone could call Iroh a villain is stupid. Sure he might have done some bad things during the war, but then again, that was the war and he was younger. Throughout the series he was a kind person who was always nice to everyone, even people trying to hurt him.
Not only that, but it's also worth mentioning that Iroh played a huge and extremely pivotal role in Zuko ultimately being redeemed, which was his main reason for accompanying his nephew after being exiled. If anything, I view Iroh as proof that the writers' were trying to show that even the Fire Nation, the primary villains of the story, wasn't completely evil to it's core like much of the rest of the world viewed them as being because of their actions, as there are still good people who are a part of that nation.
“What is better - To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?” I feel like this quote represents iroh except replace nature with circumstances as iroh was never evil but simply born from evil
Iroh literally gets mugged, and not only takes the time to teach his attacker how to mug better, but then takes the time to get to know him, believe in him and show him that he can do something better with his life than mugging people. Yeah that sure is a villain right there 🤦♂️ Won't even bother giving thousands of other examples, you true Avatar fans out there know em better than me :) Cmon, Uncle Iroh is the best ❤️💖
-Decides to settle down in Ba Sing Se as a humble, friendly tea shop owner instead of trying to take over said city. Which, you know, was something he believed was his whole purpose throughout most of his life. Totally evil. How dare he make good tea for people at a fair price? And abandon what he thought was his destiny for a happy, peaceful life of making others happy? What an awful guy, am I right? (Total sarcasm) That's one of the many I could give. I've rewatched this series dozens of times, and each time, I appreciate Iroh's inherent goodness more. From his very first scene, you see him gently trying to get Zuko through a tough time. For a while in Book 2, you even see him manage to get Zuko to briefly give up on his Avatar Hunt and accept that they can just be happy, normal folks running a humble little tea shop, and that a quiet life of just working hard, and being decent people can be just fine.
@@sastryvnk4402 probably a woke writer got in and decided to paint the show as badly as possible because the main cast is mostly males though that’s my theory
@@levievil9220 Mostly male? Unless you count animals (who don't care about gender) by book 3 team avatar had 3 males Aang, Soka & Zuko & 3 females. Katara, Toph & Suki.
Actually that was not the reason. That was the reason Ozai tried to argue with that caused the fire lord to demand Ozai kill HIS only son to teach him a lesson. Zuko’s mother couldn’t bear this and agreed to poison the fire lord for Ozai. After doing this however she had to leave because Ozai didn’t trust her to not poison him too at some point. She agreed to these terms in order to save Zuko’s life. They then convinced the fire lord to revoke Iroh’s birthright as he was dying probably simply because he wasn’t present and the fire lord wasn’t thinking clearly through the poison
When Iroh stopped Zhao when Zuko and Zhao had there Agni Kai, it was in fact already over cause just after he stopped the fight he said " so this is how the great Commander Zhao acts in defeat, disgraceful!" Just because you do something bad doesn't make you a bad person for life!
Iroh had points in his life where he was a villain but the show covers that for maybe 20 seconds of its entire runtime. most of what iroh did as a general is assumed or speculation but he is obviously a reformed man and one of the best examples of good ive ever seen in a character. cant believe that this is even a real take
Something the show did quite well, was show that good and evil isn't really a thing. There are good and bad actions. A refusal to change and acting in self-interest are bad. Accepting change and admitting to one's own faults are good. We see this among the protagonists as well as the antagonists. Jet was doing bad things and refused to change. Even if he was against the Fire Nation. Master Paku was misogynistic and refused to consider anything outside his own point of view. Until he was confronted with the consequences of his own actions. What made him good in the end, was him changing because of that. If he hadn't, he would have been a bad guy. In comparison we have Sokka's swords master, who trained him without prejudice. Despite being from the Fire Nation. Making him a genuinely good person.
@@Ikajo Agreed. We even see a bit of a gray area with Jeong Jeong. He acknowledges the awful things he did in the past, but instead of doing something good to counterbalance them, he just sits as a hermit and does nothing until the end. Until that last bit, he's in the middle a bit. Not really bad as he's no longer hurting anyone, but not really good as he's not helping yet, either.
The video calls out Iroh for joining in the Fire Nation’s campaign as a soldier, yet they ramble him out for abandoning his position in the Siege he was leading at the time. I mean, they’re even making up inconsistencies in their arguments.
It seems some of the people from the official Avatar RUclips channel didn't pay too much attention to the series. Okay, Iroh didn't start out as a hero at the beginning of Book 1. Even if he was "antagonistic" towards Team Avatar at the beginning, it was all for Zuko. But at the end of Book 1, he showed sign of being a possible ally in the future.
You also missed the fact about Hama being indirectly the reason of why the guy from the Southern Raiders decided to murder Katara's and Sokka's mother, as she escaped using bloodbending, and thus probably terrifying the Fire Lord so much that he probably ordered the raid and subsequent murder. Iroh also did not interfere on the first Agni Kai on the show, only jumping into action to protect Zuko after he won and showed honor and compassion to a rival. Then assuming that Iroh wasn't changed because of the death of his son is insanely disappointing, specially coming from the Avatar channel. I always believed that the death of Lu Ten was at that moment the catalyst for the reformation of Iroh, and the reformation of Zuko and the Fire Nation; without his death, I think the series would've turned very different for both. It was a nice analysis, and I'm very happy you created this video...I always liked Iroh and considered him my favorite character, so thank you for correcting the misconceptions from this video; I never liked those nonsensical "unpopular opinions", and seeing you correct it with facts from the show and other media made me finally subscribe to your channel. Keep up the good work Morgan...
Wrong about Hama being indirectly responsible for Katara's mom dying. She learned Bloodbending AFTER she got captured. Meaning all of the Waterbenders of Southern Pole were either dead or captured by that point. It also took her quite a while to figure out Bloodbending. And then perfect it. It'll take a couple of months at least, since she can only do it on full moons.
@@zephyrerazortail5478 not necessarily. Hama was capured 60 years before the series start according to the episode she's in. And given that Katara is, I don't remember exactly, like around 14 or so when the show starts and lost her mom as a child. That would give Hama maybe 50 years to have been able to practise and escape with bloodbending and be a partial cause of the raid
@@ReilynnOkami Hama clearly wasn’t that old when she escaped. Her hair was still dark and her face unwrinkled. However, she may still have been inadvertently responsible for Kya’s death. The Fire Lord may have changed the policy from imprisonment to death after Hama’s escape, but there wasn’t another Southern water bender until Katara.
I think Iroh would’ve turned out the kind old man he was either way. Seeing the destruction the fire nation caused on others he would’ve came to the conclusion that this was wrong whatever the weather. He was a good man down to the bone.
This isn't a new thing, tons of "official" fandom channels are nothing but cash-grabs run by people who've hardly, if ever, actually consumed the material that they claim to represent. They have people write scripts for them, don't bother to actually do any fact checking, and then they read them for the videos. This is one of the many reasons channels like yours and Dean's actually have consistently loyal viewing audiences, you guys care about the material you speak about and if you make a mistake you own up to it, those "official" channels don't care about having integrity because they can slap together some clickbait knowing it'll draw people in; they only care about clicks.
Iroh: I killed the last dragons. Fire Nation: Cool! So that means you get the title of Dragon, right? Iroh, how the Avatar channel wanted him to respond: ... Uh... no. Fire Nation: Did you kill the last dragons or not? Iroh: ... Fire Nation: Okay, everyone. Suit up. We have a couple of dragons to hunt and a General to court marshal for lying.
About the Raid on the Southern Tribe, which was because they were looking for Hama aka the Southern Water Tribe blood bender that escaped Fire Nation prison. That could have been the source.
@@Zeniwutang I mean he’s a pretty high ranking fire nation person. In line to be fire lord. I could see the white lotus actively recruiting him in an effort to get someone in charge of the fire nation with a more balanced world perspective. Someone who might end the war.
To be fair, I can get that Iroh was “evil” before his son died. He did mention in his letter giving the knife to young Zuko that he would burn Ba Sing Se to the ground. But Iroh in the show? Hell nah.
he was making a joke when he said that. He was saying that "I hope you all get to see Ba Sing Se one day, that is, if we don't burn it to the ground first." He even showed appreciation for the city, even surmising that "if Ba Sing Se is as beautiful as its wall, it must be something to behold" which is something all good generals do. To have respect and admiration for your opponent is a noble thing. I highly doubt Iroh wanted to burn the city down, especially considering he said he hoped the royal family could see it one day
Iroh dosen't seem like the type that slaughters civilians or soilders who surrender. I mean younger Iroh probably had no problem killing attacking soilders. But I'm sure he spared those who surrender.
@@TheMrPeteChannel I take it he'd have everyone he could, spared. if it takes ten of his men's lives to capture one soldier, for the sake of his own men's lives he wouldn't spare theirs, but if it weren't too difficult he would
Even when he was a general, he was still kind and compassionate to his men, and enemies, surmising, "If Ba Sing Se is anywhere near as beautiful as it's wall, then the city must be something to behold." And the reasoning he gave for pulling back was one of compassion as well. "My men were tired, and I was tired." He knew he couldn't win, so he pulled back and saved as many lives on both sides as he could.
8:10 It's been a bit since I last watched Avatar, so correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't Chou attack Zuko from behind AFTER he had already been beaten and thus the Agni Kai was already over at the moment Iroh stepped in?
nope that's right. Zhao tried attacking Zuko when his back was turned after Zuko had won and spared him, and Iroh intervened, and stopped Zuko from re-engaging Zhao
Since it's the official channel I can only say that their motive is character assassination because they don't want people to like Iroh, or for shock and click bait value. I also wonder if these people even liked it. I wouldn't be surprised if they saw Korrah and decided that the sequel series HAD to be better than the original, which is not really the case.
I agree that that channel didn't do a great job, however I agree that iroh is not a good person and that he still needed further development and I dislike how the show completely romantices Iroh, despite being both a hypocrite and unaccountable
It's quite fitting that in 4 hours, this video has almost reached the same amount of likes than the one bashing Iroh had in over a year. EDIT: Tied in 6 B-)
This gives me strong vibes of the response you made about that video from The Take claiming that Harry Potter was an anti-hero. The official Avatar channel probably won't take down their video, but it would be cool if this video could get more views than the Avatar channel's video. I know you can more than 55K views, so let's make it happen.
Well, look at that: they made the video private. Not only did you get more views than them, but once again, you've silenced an idiot who tried to slander a very pure hero.
I don't understand how that official channel would twist these words about Iroh and his true character as a whole. Seriously, even I know Iroh's character better than the very channel that touches upon ATLA. I was like OML can they just stop painting Iroh in an awful way. This is just very stupid on their part to think that Iroh has done something bad throughout ATLA series, but really he does the exact opposite of what they say about him as a character.
He wasn't evil in a sense he probably did the things he did because of his firelord father , other than that he's pure of heart, for his son , for zuko ,he spared dragons ,help aang and his friends , helped take away forced firenation control with the white lotus , sees goodness in all living and non living things, and makes great tea.
If we could go by D&D terms. I think Iroh started out as Lawful or Neutral Evil when he was younger and sieging Ba Sing Se and then by the time the series starts he’s True Neutral or at least heading in that direction
At first I thought that the maker of the original video was one of THOSE Azula fans since they’re the ones I see most frequently saying that Iroh (and Ursa, her mother) is a villain but whoa was that something else 😳
They privated the video, no doubt due to how much backlash they got for such a stupid take. You have to be as bad faith and dishonest as possible to lie and claim that Iroh was evil. Even at his worst he was nowhere near as bad as people like Ozai or Azulon but he still felt incredible guilt for his past.
The funny thing is that they are being called out IN THEIR OWN COMMENT SECTION.🤣 90-95% of the comments are pointing out how wrong their facts are, how they're misrepresenting the fan base and that they are obviously doing it for the views.
Even if Iroh did some bad things, clearly he is passed it now and wants good things to happen. A great example is when he is protecting the moon spirit in the season one finale. And if Iroh was a villain, he would be a completely different man.
Please tell me they made that video private, just like with The Take and their video on Harry Potter... I was able to relearn quite a bit from this video, as I was mistaken in my belief that Iroh losing his son at Ba Sing Se is what made him a better person, as I didn't have much else on him pre-siege aside from protecting the dragons. Adding those smaller details about his thoughts on Young Ozai was a great idea.
Also Iroh didn't interfere with an Agni Kai, Zuko won the Agni Kai and Zhou attacked him after the duel was over. That's when Iroh stepped in he didn't interfere with the actual duel.
So we got an avatar version of that harry potter video from the take Explaining why Harry or in this case Iroh is a bad guy. I loved that video so I’m guessing this is good too
4:14 I thought he was called the Dragon of the West because he would drink Tea and breath out fire? It is in the season finale of season 2 when he was using it to help him and Zuko escape Azula
Iroh was always the voice of reason. Had rhe greatest character arch in history completely off screen minus the moments we short we had in the "tales of ba sing se" episode. Cant imagine anyone ever thought of him as a "villain". Or even as an antagonist
I’ve only just finished the last airbender and only watched it once, yet I still see how Iroh was a hero not only that but he’s the reason Zuko’s redemption arc happened.
The simple conclusion is, the people manning the official account are probably the same people who made the live-action-movie-that-should-not-be-named😆
Maybe you can say from a objective standpoint, he was when he was a war general; but after his son died I think he seriously changed. Although I’d like to hope he would’ve been a fair ruler, if he conquered the earth kingdom; than ozai would be. Other than that, how can you say that with a straight face? Also on a side note he was fighting for his nation/country under the Order of his father.
Regarding the Agni Kai comparisons, the Agni Kai against Zhao was finished by the time Iroh stepped in. Against Ozai, the first bending of fire was the one that created Zuko's scar, so the Agni Kai hadn't even begun yet.
This hurt to watch only because of the clips from the other channel reaching so much to slander Iroh. Like he's a complex character. Who woulda thought.
On a mostly unrelated note, could you do a video about iroh being fire lord since he was the eldest I'm just curious on your take and and how different things would've been if maybe zuko's mum went to him for help instead of helping ozai kill azulon 😬
You know that one scene from Muppet: Treasure Island? Where Mr Arrow hits Polly Lobster against the tree, with his head in his hand? That pretty much describes my feelings about this video on Iroh.
*Tosses hot tea at them.* (The channel is great and has lots of good videos, but how dare they do this to Iroh, literally the sweetest guy in Avatar. Yeah he did awful crimes in the Earth Kingdom, but after he lost his son he gave up and became a better human. Zuko did worst, but we forgive him!)
Whoever made that vid calling Iroh a villain, probably didn’t have any ideas on what to explore and talk about, so they just made that up and twisted things around. There is a hard truth though, people listen to more of what discredits and vilifies somebody, towards anything in general and not just the Avatar show.
I also often watch the official Avatar channel. Apparently, Iroh is a popular choice on their RUclips community tab polls seeing as he is a well-liked character (please don't get me wrong, I know why, and I too like Iroh). I guess they kind of got sick of everyone rooting for Iroh on almost every poll featuring him and decided to make a video against Iroh to push people off.
One thing about the Agni Kai: they say Iroh turned his cheek to zuko like he didn’t care, he did it because it was hard for him to see his nephew get burned
Yeah, like most people, there’s food and bad in all of us. At the end of the day, Iroh tried to atone and make up for his past deeds by trying to raise a better generation. How can a channel dedicated to Avatar miss this very basic character arc? Yikes. Thanks for this video
The “video” makes it seem like iroh also didn’t grow up in the fire natio, nor was he also broken. The man was the sole reason zuko joined gaang and why he truly regained his honor.
wow I didn't think such a response would be made for such crap thank you so much movie flame what's worse is they left the part that showed how human he was when the fire nation went to invade the northern water tribe to killer the moon spirt Iroh is the one who spoke to the general and even tried to kill me
I recognized from the very first moment Uncle Iroh was on screen that he was, in fact, a good guy. There is no way such a fountain of wisdom and compassion could be secretly evil. Have these people even watched the show? There is not a single evil thing he does in the established "present day" of the show. How dare they disrespect our uncle?
I actually made this video a year ago but decided not to upload it, as I feared the Avatar channel would come after me. But one year later, I decided to upload it anyway. Enjoy!
Also, here's the video in question: ruclips.net/video/jXGtdF4oJI4/видео.html&ab_channel=Avatar%3ATheLastAirbender
It's an amazing video!
Damn the guts....
I love it
YOU'RE A BADASS😆
WOOOO!!
Thanks for the upload moviwflame can you do the life of Lin beifong please I watch all of your ATLA and LOK videos.
Another point on the Agni Kai: Iroh didn't interfere with the Agni Kai against Zhao. Zuko won the Agni Kai, and Zhao tried to launch a sneak attack while Zuko had his back turned. That's when Iroh stepped in.
i was just going to comment this. this is argument enough for the two agni kai's to be different and why Iroh couldn't interfere.
Exactly! But we can't expect the official avatar channel to know about Avatar right?
Exactly!
Yes! Iron stepped in after Zhao had lost, if anything he was a referee protecting Zuko once the match was called. The honor of the duel had been satisfied, then Zhao threw the rules and sense of honor out the window.
TRUE
How is it that the people put in charge of every pop culture franchise seem to actively hate that franchise and attempt to undermine it? Why is it that fans have to come to a franchise's defence against the people representing the franchise itself? Something is seriously wrong in the entertainment industry.
Because sadly most of the fans are content with only being observers, to only watch and enjoy. They don't want to take part, in any way, in the maintaining and continuation of the material itself.
Simply because they know it will generate clicks/comments that give them their revenue and that's all they care about.
Majority of "official" fandom channels are like this.
I didn't take their vid as hate. It's just a vid from a diff perspective on a character that draws discussion, which is good for their franchise. Not saying all their arguments were completely valid as MovieFlame has pointed out and debunked some, but yea it's just nuance to think about
@@flo4606 Yeah
I was laughing my behind off at how over the top the videos’ explanations were and how MovieFlame called them out for it
Hey, would any of you like to hear some of my unpopular avatar related opinions
Rewriting history makes a new culture and world they want to control and influence for themselves, like it is written in utopia (and by example for references, Ba Sing Se) control the narrative and no one will think for themselves or question what's really happening.
How could anyone say that Iroh is evil with a straight face?
Fr
anything for clicks. Cause they're definitely out of their minds
@@magnus5747 no NOOOO
Fr he was only a general not like he committed genocide if he’s evil then general mcarthur is evil then it’s war
maybe that's why he didn't show his face on that part
Man, even as a 7 year old I understood that Iroh was a good character.
I was 12 & knew he was a good /bad guy
@@lilunette9319 same! He sounded like one of those aggressive gamers trying to force their opinion on you. Unlike from Morgan, I didn't see any well explained facts or arguments!
You were deceived dont you see it? Everything Iroh has done, every wise sentence he has spoken, was done to pit zuko and avatar against the firelord, who just wanted to share the fire nations prosperity throughout their world, and that only to take revenge against his father who disinherited him.
@@Neurogenesis1251 Then why didn’t he become the firelord? Iroh didn’t care about power after his son died. It was like his world was shattered and it shifted the way he looked at everything
Bruh everyone did the person that is doing the Iron is evil video is dumb. Iq must be below 0
I'd say the main reason Iroh was able to step in during the Zuko-Zhao Agni kai, was because it was already finished. Zuko had won. Iroh didn't step in when Zuko was about to lose the very same fight, (the part where Zuko is on his back, right before he did that awesome spin kick from the ground). He knows Zuko has to fight his own battles, and he knows how important honor is to Zuko, also.
Also, also, the whole point of an Agni Kai is honorable combat. Zhao behaved dishonorably by trying to attack his opponent when his back was turned. He STOPPED Zhao from hurting his own honor even more.
Blaming Iroh for how Ozai “turned out” it’s like saying Zuko is also to blame for Azula!
Avatar fans know Ozai is to blame for how Azula turned out
I blame the royal family’s psychiatrist for not prescribing Azula the medicines she needed
Btw, didn't Iroh step in during that Zhao vs Zuko scene after Zuko already won and spared Zhao? The Agni Kai was already over, the result was clear and Zhao tried to sneak attack Zuko as he was walking away from Zhao with his back turned to him. So Iroh had every right to step in and stop Zhao here as at that point Zhao did a truly disgusting disonorable thing. This is way different from the situation with the Agni Kai between Zuko and Ozai
The fact anyone could call Iroh a villain is stupid. Sure he might have done some bad things during the war, but then again, that was the war and he was younger. Throughout the series he was a kind person who was always nice to everyone, even people trying to hurt him.
Not only that, but it's also worth mentioning that Iroh played a huge and extremely pivotal role in Zuko ultimately being redeemed, which was his main reason for accompanying his nephew after being exiled. If anything, I view Iroh as proof that the writers' were trying to show that even the Fire Nation, the primary villains of the story, wasn't completely evil to it's core like much of the rest of the world viewed them as being because of their actions, as there are still good people who are a part of that nation.
And honestly ozai and whoever his dad is are scary and honestly don’t give a shit if u disagree
Even iroh in thr movie wasnt even that bad compared to this
He was horrible to Azula
@@quietopinion9637Wow giving a beautiful, expensive doll to a little girl. How cruel & horrible.
He’s the character that brought the protags and the antag together?! If anything he represents peace 😂
“What is better - To be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort?”
I feel like this quote represents iroh except replace nature with circumstances as iroh was never evil but simply born from evil
couldn't said any better myself pal also paarthurnax and iroh would be friends if they ever met
@@zacharyisenbletter8944 paarthurnax like the dragon from skyrim 😯
@@sunshinecrystal2001 no i'm talking about the spy from tf2 (:
@@zacharyisenbletter8944 I didn’t know that the characters have names?
@@corey4370 the characters in tf2 really don't have names that i know of i was just joking i do that
Iroh literally gets mugged, and not only takes the time to teach his attacker how to mug better, but then takes the time to get to know him, believe in him and show him that he can do something better with his life than mugging people.
Yeah that sure is a villain right there 🤦♂️
Won't even bother giving thousands of other examples, you true Avatar fans out there know em better than me :)
Cmon, Uncle Iroh is the best ❤️💖
-took the title of Dragon of The West so the hunt for dragons would stop
that's my contribution here
@@syppy7416 Much appreciated :)
@@psychogirly910 np!
-Decides to settle down in Ba Sing Se as a humble, friendly tea shop owner instead of trying to take over said city. Which, you know, was something he believed was his whole purpose throughout most of his life.
Totally evil. How dare he make good tea for people at a fair price? And abandon what he thought was his destiny for a happy, peaceful life of making others happy? What an awful guy, am I right? (Total sarcasm)
That's one of the many I could give. I've rewatched this series dozens of times, and each time, I appreciate Iroh's inherent goodness more. From his very first scene, you see him gently trying to get Zuko through a tough time. For a while in Book 2, you even see him manage to get Zuko to briefly give up on his Avatar Hunt and accept that they can just be happy, normal folks running a humble little tea shop, and that a quiet life of just working hard, and being decent people can be just fine.
@@Zac_Frost I do love that
I genuinely can’t stand the Avatar RUclips channel. Thank you so much for calling them out.
What the heck is with them?
@@sastryvnk4402 probably a woke writer got in and decided to paint the show as badly as possible because the main cast is mostly males though that’s my theory
@@levievil9220
Who knows what it is. No matter what though, it's certainly shit
@@Jonathan-A.C. agreed
@@levievil9220 Mostly male? Unless you count animals (who don't care about gender) by book 3 team avatar had 3 males Aang, Soka & Zuko & 3 females. Katara, Toph & Suki.
They also ignored that Irohs sons death led to Iroh being passed over by his brother
Actually that was not the reason. That was the reason Ozai tried to argue with that caused the fire lord to demand Ozai kill HIS only son to teach him a lesson. Zuko’s mother couldn’t bear this and agreed to poison the fire lord for Ozai. After doing this however she had to leave because Ozai didn’t trust her to not poison him too at some point. She agreed to these terms in order to save Zuko’s life. They then convinced the fire lord to revoke Iroh’s birthright as he was dying probably simply because he wasn’t present and the fire lord wasn’t thinking clearly through the poison
When Iroh stopped Zhao when Zuko and Zhao had there Agni Kai, it was in fact already over cause just after he stopped the fight he said " so this is how the great Commander Zhao acts in defeat, disgraceful!" Just because you do something bad doesn't make you a bad person for life!
Quoting Fred and George Weasley, after watching the arguments that the guy stated that Iroh was a villain:
THATS RUBBISH!!
Iroh had points in his life where he was a villain but the show covers that for maybe 20 seconds of its entire runtime. most of what iroh did as a general is assumed or speculation but he is obviously a reformed man and one of the best examples of good ive ever seen in a character. cant believe that this is even a real take
Something the show did quite well, was show that good and evil isn't really a thing. There are good and bad actions. A refusal to change and acting in self-interest are bad. Accepting change and admitting to one's own faults are good.
We see this among the protagonists as well as the antagonists. Jet was doing bad things and refused to change. Even if he was against the Fire Nation.
Master Paku was misogynistic and refused to consider anything outside his own point of view. Until he was confronted with the consequences of his own actions. What made him good in the end, was him changing because of that. If he hadn't, he would have been a bad guy.
In comparison we have Sokka's swords master, who trained him without prejudice. Despite being from the Fire Nation. Making him a genuinely good person.
@@Ikajo Agreed. We even see a bit of a gray area with Jeong Jeong. He acknowledges the awful things he did in the past, but instead of doing something good to counterbalance them, he just sits as a hermit and does nothing until the end. Until that last bit, he's in the middle a bit. Not really bad as he's no longer hurting anyone, but not really good as he's not helping yet, either.
Yeah, I don't think Iroh was the kind of general who went around killing unarmed civilians.
The video calls out Iroh for joining in the Fire Nation’s campaign as a soldier, yet they ramble him out for abandoning his position in the Siege he was leading at the time. I mean, they’re even making up inconsistencies in their arguments.
Imagine understanding tye character better than the official RUclips channel for it
Who in their right mind would think IROH IS A BAD GUY HE IS A MENTOR character who guides zuko to the light
You know when the official channel spouts ludicrous when a fan understands the show and characters better and debunks them.
It seems some of the people from the official Avatar RUclips channel didn't pay too much attention to the series. Okay, Iroh didn't start out as a hero at the beginning of Book 1. Even if he was "antagonistic" towards Team Avatar at the beginning, it was all for Zuko. But at the end of Book 1, he showed sign of being a possible ally in the future.
@@lilunette9319 yeah, the only team he directly attacked the Gaang was when they trashed Zukos ship in the second episode
You also missed the fact about Hama being indirectly the reason of why the guy from the Southern Raiders decided to murder Katara's and Sokka's mother, as she escaped using bloodbending, and thus probably terrifying the Fire Lord so much that he probably ordered the raid and subsequent murder.
Iroh also did not interfere on the first Agni Kai on the show, only jumping into action to protect Zuko after he won and showed honor and compassion to a rival.
Then assuming that Iroh wasn't changed because of the death of his son is insanely disappointing, specially coming from the Avatar channel.
I always believed that the death of Lu Ten was at that moment the catalyst for the reformation of Iroh, and the reformation of Zuko and the Fire Nation; without his death, I think the series would've turned very different for both.
It was a nice analysis, and I'm very happy you created this video...I always liked Iroh and considered him my favorite character, so thank you for correcting the misconceptions from this video; I never liked those nonsensical "unpopular opinions", and seeing you correct it with facts from the show and other media made me finally subscribe to your channel.
Keep up the good work Morgan...
Wrong about Hama being indirectly responsible for Katara's mom dying.
She learned Bloodbending AFTER she got captured. Meaning all of the Waterbenders of Southern Pole were either dead or captured by that point.
It also took her quite a while to figure out Bloodbending. And then perfect it. It'll take a couple of months at least, since she can only do it on full moons.
@@zephyrerazortail5478 not necessarily. Hama was capured 60 years before the series start according to the episode she's in. And given that Katara is, I don't remember exactly, like around 14 or so when the show starts and lost her mom as a child. That would give Hama maybe 50 years to have been able to practise and escape with bloodbending and be a partial cause of the raid
@@ReilynnOkami Hama clearly wasn’t that old when she escaped. Her hair was still dark and her face unwrinkled. However, she may still have been inadvertently responsible for Kya’s death. The Fire Lord may have changed the policy from imprisonment to death after Hama’s escape, but there wasn’t another Southern water bender until Katara.
I think Iroh would’ve turned out the kind old man he was either way. Seeing the destruction the fire nation caused on others he would’ve came to the conclusion that this was wrong whatever the weather. He was a good man down to the bone.
This isn't a new thing, tons of "official" fandom channels are nothing but cash-grabs run by people who've hardly, if ever, actually consumed the material that they claim to represent.
They have people write scripts for them, don't bother to actually do any fact checking, and then they read them for the videos.
This is one of the many reasons channels like yours and Dean's actually have consistently loyal viewing audiences, you guys care about the material you speak about and if you make a mistake you own up to it, those "official" channels don't care about having integrity because they can slap together some clickbait knowing it'll draw people in; they only care about clicks.
Iroh: I killed the last dragons.
Fire Nation: Cool! So that means you get the title of Dragon, right?
Iroh, how the Avatar channel wanted him to respond: ... Uh... no.
Fire Nation: Did you kill the last dragons or not?
Iroh: ...
Fire Nation: Okay, everyone. Suit up. We have a couple of dragons to hunt and a General to court marshal for lying.
ok...
About the Raid on the Southern Tribe, which was because they were looking for Hama aka the Southern Water Tribe blood bender that escaped Fire Nation prison. That could have been the source.
I always felt confused how did the white lotus recruit Iroh or was he a member in his youth and given the times how did they trust him
He became enrolled during his "spiritual journey" after Lu Ten died.
@@Blackinght11 yeah but what was the reason he got enrolled?
Their are people who changed for the better when they have taste of seeing the real world.
@@Zeniwutang I mean he’s a pretty high ranking fire nation person. In line to be fire lord. I could see the white lotus actively recruiting him in an effort to get someone in charge of the fire nation with a more balanced world perspective. Someone who might end the war.
To be fair, I can get that Iroh was “evil” before his son died. He did mention in his letter giving the knife to young Zuko that he would burn Ba Sing Se to the ground. But Iroh in the show? Hell nah.
he was making a joke when he said that. He was saying that "I hope you all get to see Ba Sing Se one day, that is, if we don't burn it to the ground first."
He even showed appreciation for the city, even surmising that "if Ba Sing Se is as beautiful as its wall, it must be something to behold" which is something all good generals do. To have respect and admiration for your opponent is a noble thing. I highly doubt Iroh wanted to burn the city down, especially considering he said he hoped the royal family could see it one day
@@typo1345 plus he did get to run his tea shop there so his dreams come to just not fully as he expected back then
Iroh dosen't seem like the type that slaughters civilians or soilders who surrender. I mean younger Iroh probably had no problem killing attacking soilders. But I'm sure he spared those who surrender.
@@TheMrPeteChannel I take it he'd have everyone he could, spared. if it takes ten of his men's lives to capture one soldier, for the sake of his own men's lives he wouldn't spare theirs, but if it weren't too difficult he would
Have the people saying he's a villain ever actually watched the show
I remember the Take Two thing on Harry Potter being a villian... so.. I expect this to go the same way.
There’s literally no way Iroh could be considered a villain.
Even when he was a general, he was still kind and compassionate to his men, and enemies, surmising, "If Ba Sing Se is anywhere near as beautiful as it's wall, then the city must be something to behold." And the reasoning he gave for pulling back was one of compassion as well. "My men were tired, and I was tired." He knew he couldn't win, so he pulled back and saved as many lives on both sides as he could.
Im surprised he didnt say Aang was a villain for freezing in a block of ice 🤦🏽♀️ LITERALLY WHAT IS THIS LOGIC
8:10 It's been a bit since I last watched Avatar, so correct me if I'm wrong. But didn't Chou attack Zuko from behind AFTER he had already been beaten and thus the Agni Kai was already over at the moment Iroh stepped in?
Yep you’re remembering correctly
nope that's right. Zhao tried attacking Zuko when his back was turned after Zuko had won and spared him, and Iroh intervened, and stopped Zuko from re-engaging Zhao
Since it's the official channel I can only say that their motive is character assassination because they don't want people to like Iroh, or for shock and click bait value. I also wonder if these people even liked it. I wouldn't be surprised if they saw Korrah and decided that the sequel series HAD to be better than the original, which is not really the case.
I agree that that channel didn't do a great job, however I agree that iroh is not a good person and that he still needed further development and I dislike how the show completely romantices Iroh, despite being both a hypocrite and unaccountable
The way iroh cared for zuko like a son proves he's not a villan because zucko is a very loving kind person at his core just like his uncle iroh
It's quite fitting that in 4 hours, this video has almost reached the same amount of likes than the one bashing Iroh had in over a year.
EDIT: Tied in 6 B-)
If the Dislike button was still around, I'm sure the Avatar channel video would have a solid red bar
This gives me strong vibes of the response you made about that video from The Take claiming that Harry Potter was an anti-hero. The official Avatar channel probably won't take down their video, but it would be cool if this video could get more views than the Avatar channel's video. I know you can more than 55K views, so let's make it happen.
I was thinking the same thing
Well, look at that: they made the video private. Not only did you get more views than them, but once again, you've silenced an idiot who tried to slander a very pure hero.
@@Bahr-im7pn just like the Harry Potter one
@@dreademperor2094 Exactly!
@@Bahr-im7pn well it was bound to happen
I don't understand how that official channel would twist these words about Iroh and his true character as a whole. Seriously, even I know Iroh's character better than the very channel that touches upon ATLA. I was like OML can they just stop painting Iroh in an awful way. This is just very stupid on their part to think that Iroh has done something bad throughout ATLA series, but really he does the exact opposite of what they say about him as a character.
Did you comment on the original video?
@@DTux5249 I never saw the original video
@@geviesanta3631 If you did, you would know it was satircal
@ProfessorPrel Maybe I would, but not in the good way though
@@geviesanta3631 Well, you wrote a whole paragraph about how stupid the ATLA channel was, not realising you were actually the fool for falling for it
Also,during the Agni Kai,Iroh only closed his eyes because he couldn't bare to see his nephew suffer.
Exactly. I’ve always thought that was pretty clear even from when I first watched the show at age 8
Avatar channel: Iron is evil
Avatar fanbase: *you aren't very bright are you?*
When the fanbase understands the show more than the OFFICIAL CHANNEL that is tied to it
He wasn't evil in a sense he probably did the things he did because of his firelord father , other than that he's pure of heart, for his son , for zuko ,he spared dragons ,help aang and his friends , helped take away forced firenation control with the white lotus , sees goodness in all living and non living things, and makes great tea.
I've always believed Iroh to be a good guy at heart he was always there to calm Zuko down when he angered
Who in their right mind would think that?
The source that lead to the Southsern Raiders, was actually Katara and Sokka's dad, looking for a Northern teacher for Katara
If we could go by D&D terms. I think Iroh started out as Lawful or Neutral Evil when he was younger and sieging Ba Sing Se and then by the time the series starts he’s True Neutral or at least heading in that direction
Borderlines true neutral and neutral good.
At first I thought that the maker of the original video was one of THOSE Azula fans since they’re the ones I see most frequently saying that Iroh (and Ursa, her mother) is a villain but whoa was that something else 😳
Only thing 'wrong' Iroh ever did, was attack Ba Sing Se
I cannot believe they said all of those false things about Iroh, he's my favorite character and I'm glad you're here to set the record straight.
You're darn right about the title of your video! Uncle Iroh Forever! 🙅
Iroh was neutral. He always saw the best of anyone and always saw the worst. Iroh was a true masterpiece to this series.
They privated the video, no doubt due to how much backlash they got for such a stupid take. You have to be as bad faith and dishonest as possible to lie and claim that Iroh was evil. Even at his worst he was nowhere near as bad as people like Ozai or Azulon but he still felt incredible guilt for his past.
The funny thing is that they are being called out IN THEIR OWN COMMENT SECTION.🤣
90-95% of the comments are pointing out how wrong their facts are, how they're misrepresenting the fan base and that they are obviously doing it for the views.
I Have never seen Iroh as a villian I have always seen him as thr sweet hood hearted caring uncle
Exactly! The Uncle everyone wants and most deserve. Zuko was a very lucky person to have him as his uncle. Azula too but she thought he was a fool.
Even if Iroh did some bad things, clearly he is passed it now and wants good things to happen. A great example is when he is protecting the moon spirit in the season one finale. And if Iroh was a villain, he would be a completely different man.
You’re absolutely right and they called themselves avatar fans but he’s basically are trying to ruined iroh
does anyone LEGITIMATELY THINK IROH IS EVIL?????
Please tell me they made that video private, just like with The Take and their video on Harry Potter...
I was able to relearn quite a bit from this video, as I was mistaken in my belief that Iroh losing his son at Ba Sing Se is what made him a better person, as I didn't have much else on him pre-siege aside from protecting the dragons. Adding those smaller details about his thoughts on Young Ozai was a great idea.
As someone who has Suki tattooed on my arm, and my logo inspired from the show, thank you for roasting the living hell out of this joke of a channel.
Holy moly this guy has the amount of common sense of a 14 year old Twitter user. I can’t believe Nickelodeon said this was okay.
Iroh has same story as Zuko. Did some questionable stuff, realised he was in the wrong side and changed for better.
Also Iroh didn't interfere with an Agni Kai, Zuko won the Agni Kai and Zhou attacked him after the duel was over. That's when Iroh stepped in he didn't interfere with the actual duel.
So we got an avatar version of that harry potter video from the take Explaining why Harry or in this case Iroh is a bad guy. I loved that video so I’m guessing this is good too
The nickname the dragon of the west is literally because he is good at firing fire out of his mouth
The 3 dislikes on this video are just the 3 people who worked on the "IROH IS EVIL!!!!!!" video.
4:14 I thought he was called the Dragon of the West because he would drink Tea and breath out fire? It is in the season finale of season 2 when he was using it to help him and Zuko escape Azula
Iroh was always the voice of reason. Had rhe greatest character arch in history completely off screen minus the moments we short we had in the "tales of ba sing se" episode. Cant imagine anyone ever thought of him as a "villain". Or even as an antagonist
I’ve only just finished the last airbender and only watched it once, yet I still see how Iroh was a hero not only that but he’s the reason Zuko’s redemption arc happened.
I agree iroh is definitely NOT a villian, in fact I believe iroh had a bigger heart than most of his family ever did.
I can't believe that video exists in the first place..... On their OFFICIAL RUclips channel, no less! Who let that happen? like WTF
The simple conclusion is, the people manning the official account are probably the same people who made the live-action-movie-that-should-not-be-named😆
They've probably never seen the show - they just laugh at the memes and scroll the wiki when they need to churn out some clickbait
As someone who hasn’t watched a MovieFlame video for a while, HOLY CRAP THE MUSIC IS SO NOSTALGIC
Maybe you can say from a objective standpoint, he was when he was a war general; but after his son died I think he seriously changed. Although I’d like to hope he would’ve been a fair ruler, if he conquered the earth kingdom; than ozai would be. Other than that, how can you say that with a straight face? Also on a side note he was fighting for his nation/country under the Order of his father.
Regarding the Agni Kai comparisons, the Agni Kai against Zhao was finished by the time Iroh stepped in. Against Ozai, the first bending of fire was the one that created Zuko's scar, so the Agni Kai hadn't even begun yet.
I have no idea how anyone could see him as a villain!! One of the best characters ever written in my opinion!
This hurt to watch only because of the clips from the other channel reaching so much to slander Iroh. Like he's a complex character. Who woulda thought.
On a mostly unrelated note, could you do a video about iroh being fire lord since he was the eldest
I'm just curious on your take and and how different things would've been if maybe zuko's mum went to him for help instead of helping ozai kill azulon
😬
You know that one scene from Muppet: Treasure Island? Where Mr Arrow hits Polly Lobster against the tree, with his head in his hand?
That pretty much describes my feelings about this video on Iroh.
Muppet Treasure Island (1996) - Battle with the pirates. 3:50 - 3:53
Oh my lord, the guy sounds so smug and annoying while giving his points.
"Am I saying Iroh's a bad guy? HAHA yeah, pretty much!"
"What is better, to be born good? or overcome your evil nature through great effort?" - Pathurnaax, Skyrim
Their video is definitely wrong. Good for you to rebuttal them, MovieFlame.
Iroh is one of the goat of fictional characters imo.
Even someone who doesn't understand the language of the show would know Iroh is not a villain. So ridiculous
I’ve been a subscriber for a while and I want to thank you for making such thoughtful videos!!
The time he helped Zuko attack Team Avatar by shooting a giant fireball at them was pretty funny though
Yeah, there was nothing that screamed villain to me with Iroh as far as I remember.
Man you should be in charge of avatar official chanel
*Tosses hot tea at them.*
(The channel is great and has lots of good videos, but how dare they do this to Iroh, literally the sweetest guy in Avatar. Yeah he did awful crimes in the Earth Kingdom, but after he lost his son he gave up and became a better human. Zuko did worst, but we forgive him!)
Whoever made that vid calling Iroh a villain, probably didn’t have any ideas on what to explore and talk about, so they just made that up and twisted things around. There is a hard truth though, people listen to more of what discredits and vilifies somebody, towards anything in general and not just the Avatar show.
The very first ep is the only ep where it oh attacked to gang, every other time they were more or less on the same side
I just tried to watch video and it’s been privated 😂
Iroh is such an evil guy he should start a League of Supervillians with Dumbledore, John Cena, Santa Claus, and SpongeBob.
I also often watch the official Avatar channel. Apparently, Iroh is a popular choice on their RUclips community tab polls seeing as he is a well-liked character (please don't get me wrong, I know why, and I too like Iroh). I guess they kind of got sick of everyone rooting for Iroh on almost every poll featuring him and decided to make a video against Iroh to push people off.
One thing about the Agni Kai: they say Iroh turned his cheek to zuko like he didn’t care, he did it because it was hard for him to see his nephew get burned
a kindergartener could see the pain in Iroh's face idk what that guy was thinking
Yeah, like most people, there’s food and bad in all of us. At the end of the day, Iroh tried to atone and make up for his past deeds by trying to raise a better generation. How can a channel dedicated to Avatar miss this very basic character arc? Yikes. Thanks for this video
You mispelled good, btw. It says "food".
The “video” makes it seem like iroh also didn’t grow up in the fire natio, nor was he also broken. The man was the sole reason zuko joined gaang and why he truly regained his honor.
The Avatars channels narrator voice is so hard to listen too.
Next video:
Reasons why Toph is a villian!
(She abandoned her parents, breaking thier heart.)
You have to be actually Evil to think Iroh is evil 😂
In a future hp vid, you should make about either the ministry or the shops in diagon ally.
wow I didn't think such a response would be made for such crap thank you so much movie flame what's worse is they left the part that showed how human he was when the fire nation went to invade the northern water tribe to killer the moon spirt Iroh is the one who spoke to the general and even tried to kill me
I recognized from the very first moment Uncle Iroh was on screen that he was, in fact, a good guy. There is no way such a fountain of wisdom and compassion could be secretly evil.
Have these people even watched the show? There is not a single evil thing he does in the established "present day" of the show.
How dare they disrespect our uncle?