4.10 VS 4.30 Gearing: People Say Max Tow Isn't Worth It… Heres What No One Showed You Before!
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- Опубликовано: 24 май 2024
- A lot of people say to skip the lower gearing when choosing a tow vehicle but here are some clear advantages not shown! || Like || Subscribe || Share || #fordf550 #lariat
Special Thanks to: Larry H Miller Super Ford SLC
Address: 1340 South 500 West Salt Lake City, UT 84115
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On the drive shafts the part numbers are the same. Every single one is going to have a different serial number that identifies it specifically.
Came here to say this!
Exactly
Yup. At least I’m not the only one that noticed that
The drive shaft is not the issue. The rear end is in question.
says he doesn't care...are we clear? Ok!
You can't go off the serial number. The part number is what you go by. If the part number is the same, they're using the same parts. The serial number is that specific item.
Yeah people have access to more information than ever so common sense is becoming increasingly uncommon 😢
The whole point of serial numbers is to be different for each individual part made. That is literally what separates it from model numbers.
The max payload package is independently available. The rear axle rating is spring-limited, the basic axle is the same. You can also get the dual tanks with or without max towing, regardless of payload capacity.
The drive lines, frame, and axle housings are identical. A little research on the Ford website, as well as the dedicated forums, will tell you all of this.
For gearing choose the ratio that gets you somewhere around 2000 rpm for your desired cruising speed. Since I tow heavy equipment (forklifts & such), I run 60 MPH so the 4.30s would be fine for me. I have no business going any faster than that for the weight I pull. Your situation would most likely be different.
What's your MPG?
@@xmo552 average 11. Worst I ever saw was 9 but that was in a 30+ mph headwind & I could really feel the truck working. Forklift weight 19200, trailer weight 5400, truck weight 7800 & some of the time I'll also have 2 to 3 of those 3 foot "shorty" jersey barriers loaded, probably 1000 a piece. Yes, heavy & a lot of weight concentrated in a small area but that's why I poke & take my time. I'm also an A-CDL holder for almost 30 years & hauled oversize when the wind craze started picking up. Only advice I can give which will probably get laughed at is it's not a race. Get there when you get there, cargo & your equipment in 1 piece, nobody killed or maimed along the way.
I've noticed that when you go past 2000 rpm cruising, loaded or not, mileage does a sharp "bell curve" downward. Same as my old 6.0 was years ago.
@@acemobile9806
I fully agree. Thanks for the reply.
I'd like to build a ramp truck/wedge (single car on my back) type car hauler just for personal use. I think the most I'd ever haul on my deck may be 10k max. I think some road gears like maybe 3.73:1 might be great for a balance of torque and MPG. I favor the MPG since the engine and trans give me all the torque I need in this application.
Would you agree?
@@xmo552 as a matter of fact my '06 F350 6.0 had 3.73s. It sat on 35s & had a mild 4" lift. At 2000 rpm, I was right at 68 mph & unloaded could get 18-19 mpg out of it. If I was in a headwind that would drop to 15-16. I also had a 60 gallon bed tank & I have done 1800 miles without refueling. I mostly used the extra capacity for price hedging, load up to the brim where it was cheap. Towing 12K or so would drop that to 13, maybe 12 at the worst. It was studded, deleted, FASS pump & aftermarket non-VGT turbo but still factory injectors, relatively mild mods. I had Elite diesel tunes for when I wanted to have fun but otherwise ran the factory SCT race tune & that's where it got the best mileage if I stayed out of it. 250K when I sold it, laid down on me 1 time for the FICM. Only trouble I ever had with it.
What you propose is perfect, I think you'll be really happy with the mileage vs speed trade-off & you'll have more than enough grunt to tow the steepest grades with that load. Set the cruise & ride on.
Go for the gearing with the limited slip.
The axle tag is different because the gearing is different, the drive shaft tag is the same as the drive shafts would not need to be different if they build them all to handle max weight they do not need to stock multiple types of drive shafts. The springs could be the same but that still does not give the weight limit increase, if you have an accident over the vehicle weight you will have issues even if you swapped the axle to the max tow axle, unless the truck is certified for max weight from the manufacture it is not legit to max tow. It doesn't matter if you are happy about it or not but you need to stay within the manufactures tow rating for insurance and liability. When I was younger I had a heavier license plate on my vehicle because the state just weighed the farm truck and if the license plate covered the weight they let you go, now they will check your VIN for the weight it can carry and you will have issues if you are over on the vehicle or license plate weights. Be safe and stay alive.
You are making valid point. Problem is, you don’t need max towing in Hot Shot. Money is in light loads. I’ve only been over the road driver for 14 years and a tow truck driver for 10 year before that. But what do I know. Now the graph you pointed out from Ford is completely BS marketing. I figured that out 4 years ago on my Ram 5500. Ask any gear builder. 4:10 - 4:30 is not near enough difference to change the tow capacity that much. It’s literally only a few teeth. Such a marking joke.
Dude you're a good person but the lifestyle your portraying is someone who has deep pockets. Aka a rich person. You are not.
@@Tomwheat1289-uj8gcDoesn’t seem like he’s trying portray a certain lifestyle? He’s just simply stating something
makes more of a difference on diesel than a gasoline engine, semi trucks offers a bazillion different ratios in gearboxes and rearends...
@@matthewschiebout7384 I’m really not sure if you watched the video. It’s about a Hot Shot application. You would not use a gas motor. I stated that hauling heavy in hot shot doesn’t make sense, because of fuel mileage. That’s why max tow is not a great option. The kind of money you spend in fuel and sleeping in the back seat hauling heavy you might as well have a tractor trailer. You can buy them for less than a pickup truck now day, same fuel mileage if you’re hauling heavy in hot shot, and you get a place to stay every night. Better to haul lite in hot shot, that’s why you don’t need max tow and you get a more efficient truck
@@Djtruckin
I agree fully. Thinking of starting up. What state are you in?
if you are going to pull commercially you might as well pay for a tractor, you have a bed, you have a higher tow capacity, the state fees are the same you still have to get your authorities, and I knew a guy that was towing with a regular truck and switched to a tractor, and he liked the tractor better, when he hit the brakes he knew he was going to stop where with a pickup if your trailer brakes go you take your life in your own hands if you haul heavier than the weight of the truck
Regarding frames... at 12:55 you can see the Max Tow frame has what appears to be an extra layer of frame steel rivited onto the frame.
Max payload (gas engine single cab short wheelbase) vs. max tow (diesel and such) depends on what your after
You should look up the SAE J2807 towing tests. The vehicle get certified by the weights they can safely tow in the test. They stop on a steep hill and need to start again to get to a required speed on the hill, gearing matters in the tests. What ever you do you cannot go over the max weight the manufacture labeled the vehicle as with out risking problems down the road. There is a pretty good video on the SAE J2807 on TFL truck.
Look at the frame on HD. In the middle of the truck the HD has extra steel member on top that wraps around the outside.
That's for the mid fuel tank option mounting
It's a no brainer! Max Tow is the way to go!
One other thing about the max tow, when optioning that package the 4:30s are where it starts, with the 4:88s as an option.
That’s why guys take their beds of f350’s and don’t usually start with cab and chassis. Or even 250’s . My good friend at one point was grossing mid $300 k with ram 2500 and 35’ aluminum gooseneck
As of 2023, the diesel F550 doesn't come with 4.88:1 anymore, 4.30:1 is the shortest gear available. 4.88:1 is currently only available with the 7.3 gas engine.
I stand corrected, 4:30s are the top option for the diesel.
We have 2 F450 Chassis Cab trucks one with the 4.30 and one with the 4.10 both are 2023 MY. I honestly couldnt tell the difference and this is with a reefer box out back.
I encourage you to drive a non max tow f550 while pulling a load not just empty with the bed on it. I watched your video test driving the f550 with aluminum bed.
That’s not what these trucks are designed to do. They are designed to be hooked to a trailer 24/7.
I just purchased a 2024 f550 lariat 4.10 limited slip.
I’ll tell you coming from owning 2019,2021,2022 pickup truck f450s. And daily driving and pulling with them.
This 550 is a completely different animal the performance comes from the stiffness of the frame and leaf pack while towing the stability is out of this world. With the gooseneck pulling 20klbs through the mountains in Colorado and Utah on 7% grades and windy roads I can’t even feel the trailer behind me in 45 mph cross winds. I don’t even have to put my hand on the steering wheel it’s so stable and planted to the road.
The 4.10 are perfectly fine for towing heavy like I said - climbing 7% grades in Moab passing semi trucks. You’re fine bro. Get whatever truck is available. These are not pickup trucks they are a completely different class.
You gotta hook a trailer to see the difference !
I also want to add that like many have said these trucks are plenty capable to “pull” anything up a hill…. It’s getting back down that’s the problem. And nothing in the max tow option helps the braking.
As far as the gearing These trucks are governed to 82 mph so I’m running 2200rpm at 82mph which is the factory speed limiter. Which is also where the engine makes peak horsepower… anything higher that that and you’re out of peak hp range.
As far as the payload plus upgrade package I think that is designed for service bodies with cranes or dump truck body or ambulance.
Pin weight of a gooseneck is 15% of the total trailer weight according to ford.
With non max tow standard leaf pack I would need to hook up a 60,000lb trailer to exceed the payload of the 18,000 GVW.
I can’t see how anyone with a hauler bed or a flat bed could ever need the payload plus package. Why on earth would u ever need more than 10,000lbs payload? I could literally put my f250 high output on the bed of my 550 non max tow and still be under the rated payload.
lol cmon mane
We have two exact Ram 6.4 3500 4x4 regular cab single rear wheel trucks. The truck with 4.10 walks away on the take off from the 3.73 geared Ram. Going to do a highway run yet.to.see what happens? Also back in the 90's on the original Ford Supernduty F450's there was a 5.13 gear option
It's all about your particular application, and target speeds. It's literally less than a 5% difference. If your target speed allows for it, run the 4.30s. If it doesn't, get the 4.10... or whatever suits your application. The main thing is to have your target speed at about 100RPM above peak torque with overdrive engaged.
Great comparisons now what about a F600 thrown into the mix for towing either a Luxe or New Horizons? Agreed always err on the side of payload for multiple reasons, least of all would be economy.
They need to bring back two speed axles
That would stress the lightweight transmissions even more.
2 spd rears are junk! owned a few over the years, would rather have the multi speed transmission.
I would like to see hd trucks without the fuel tank behind axle . The fuel tanks subtract from tongue weight .
Defiantly add the max tow to every truck!
3:73 with 35ft aluminum shipshee gooseneck and 2500 hauling LTL partials makes better money every time. Once you’re out here on the road 14 years you might figure it out
Lol...max tow isn't even available on 2500...
@@mopeman440the point is Max tow is idiotic with the ridiculous fuel guzzling gears
@@Djtruckin
Yuuuup
@@mopeman440I know since the late seventies Ford has been playing games with their packaging my 01 F250 has more Towing capabilities than a single will F-350 because of the camper special packaging, the best part was an average of 350 to $1,000 cheaper Insurance a year. The point is do your homework on the packaging because it does make a huge difference.
Why would serial number be same on both trucks?
hi bro can you make a video on freightliner M2 112 or 106
Depends what your doing with the truck. DOT will look at that GVWR on truck and on rear axle if they think you are close on weight at a scale. Seen a truck with a gooseneck pulled over at a portable scale pulled off to the side last year by the DOT
DOT is going to go of the GVWR on your registration
Nice truck
I personally would get the 4:30 with max tow! I believe this gives you more cooling for transmission which is so important to protect! Run the tires off it and then next set would be 245s instead of 225s that should put gear ratio around the 4:10 mark. Look up tire gear ratio calculator to verify exact number? Why is axle diameter?
The serial number is specific to the exact part it is on. That's like that parts VIN. 2 identical units off the exact same line on the same day will have different serial numbers.
What do all those packages mean. What do you get for that price
thing I hate about those 225/70/19.5 is they are so short, you can put 245/70s on the max tow with the 4.30 and it will help some they are 2 inches taller i drove one with 4.88 gears and that 6.7 was screaming and it didnt last long doing it either
My 1955 Ford in my driveway has 31,000 GCVW. 14, 000 rear weight max. 2 speed Eaton with 6 spokes. 8.00 / 20 rims.
Serial # is going to be different on every drive shaft made. Srl # is unique to that one drive shaft or anything that is serialized. Your VIN which is a serial number is different than any other vehicle made.
Both are fine
rpms are to high on 4:30 rear for highway use. 4:10 is perfect for 6.7s
F550 have 4.88 gears that’s great for working flat beds but reduce power compared f450 and below
I would go 4.10 gears for highway hilly mountainous areas or local only 4.30. They should offer the max tow on both versions.
I would buy the one with 2 tanks.. these trucks only get 6 mpg horrible on fuel.
They’ll both pull like nobody’s business. The pickup doesn’t know what little numbers are printed on the sticker
They tow more than can stop.
2024 and they still aren't giving you 4 aluminum wheels on the back and LED tail lamps? Hate to say it but RAM gives you both of those.
It may cost $80k
The brake lights are still from the 1970s era
those are there just to make it street legal, most of these trucks get upfitted with service bodies or flatbeds anyway
I have a 2022 with the 7.3 gas......max tow ........the 4.30 gears with the 10spd are ridiculous.
TRUTH ✅ they should come with 3.23 or 3.08
Ridiculous in a good way or bad way? Going to be ordering shortly, and want to put camper in back and pull my boat. What’s your RPM at 65 mph ? Any info would be great.
@@Andrew-yx6ut I'd have to check RPM @65.....I only use the truck around town....it's not that bad with the 10 speed.... Has decent power..... Gas mileage sucks.... But I use mine for snow plowing.....and do lots of backing...... At less than 10 mph in reverse it's over 2500rpm. If I ordered a truck I'd definitely get the tallest gear possible....even if it meant not going with the max tow package
4.30 rear end helps take strain off your transmission and engine when taking off and climbing mountains witch will help make your transmission last longer especially since transmissions cost as much as they do now its well worth the 1 to 2 mpg your gonna lose now i cut and demo concrete we have 2 4500 rams 1 has a 4.10 the other has a 4.40 rear end the truck with the 4.10 gets 9 mpg and the truck with the 4.40 gets 10 and the pne with the 4.40 is at 22k everyday and the 4.10 truck is at 17k yes one is a little over loaded but its not according to dot also the truck that has 4.40 rear end is on its way out it has 400k on it and a 5500 will be replacing it
The difference in rpm is not going to be that much between a 4.10 and a 4.30. So I don’t know that the fuel mileage is going to be a factor. I guess it just would depend on if you need the extra GCWR.
Also you are thinking like a consumer owner and not a commercial owner when you mention being sluggish. Again, the performance won’t be much different. Probably a slight advantage for the 4.10. But loaded with the kind of weight you’re talking about is going to put these trucks in the 40 mph range on steep grades. Which is good because a max loaded semi truck is going to be in the 20s. In my part of the country with some of these grades we have they are in the teens. So again, that is irrelevant. They are not going to fly up a grade like we all do with our weekend warrior loads.
Why does GM call out a Max gooseball or tongue weight on their trucks but Ford and Dodge does not? On my fifth wheel, I am nowhere near the max cargo capacity of my 3500srw but it's a struggle to stay under max gooseball rating. This doesn't make sense to have excess cargo capacity but not be able to use it with GM. Guess next truck will be Ford or Dodge.
I wonder if that's why more people tow with a ford or dogeza vs chevy or gmc 😮🤔
Find 2 identical spec trucks and the serial numbers won’t match. If the part number is the same, they’re the same. The serial numbers are used for tracking purposes.
There isn’t enough difference in those axle ratios to make much difference in actual use, especially with a 10 speed transmission.
I bought a gas 250 and I’m perfectly fine with the 4.30 in that. I lose some mileage but I’ll never need to worry with my current towing needs and it gives me the most capability with the lower torque.
This is all about hot shot. If you guys really new the business you would not be saying this
4.30... VS 3.55 , 3.23 or 3.08 is HUGE MOG LOSS
@@DjtruckinTRUTH ✅ the 4.30s are ridiculous old tech for gutless old gas engines not modern engines that should be 3.08 with a 10spd
If you guys pay attention to the video it’s not about max tow as it is max tow in a hot shot application. The best way to make money in a trucking operation is through fuel economy. I have 14 years of numbers to prove it, and the best guys in the industry know it and work on fuel mileage on a daily basis. You need to be able to move around efficiently empty and haul lite in hot shot. Every time you haul heavy hot shot you’re losing money.
@@Djtruckin I understand that. I was just sharing my private use/needs. If you are towing for a living, I would def maximize the fuel economy over as long as you are pulling under the legal limit.
I run the Dana 80 out back 4.30 gears and LSD on my 4X4 Dually. My truck is also registered @ 33K. aka the little sticker on your license plate
What's your average MPG?
@@xmo552 usually around 14mpg. But I run Toyo 35”s I also keep my hydra chip at the 140hp setting because I love the power with the stage 2 injectors and the larger van turbo without a blowoff valve dumping into a full 5” exhaust right off the terbski
@@DumbCarGuy
That's in a 6.7 Ford and usually hauling 30k?
Wow.
I've towed over 10 years. On the 6.7 Fords I've driven (most were 4.30:1) I'd average around 250 miles on a saddle tank. I never hit 300 miles loaded. If I was pulling a Camry or Suburban on a long steady highway cruise I got around 10-12 MPG no matter what.
From personal experience the Dodge trucks gave better MPG, but they were slower in acceleration.
I asked your MPG because yesterday I found a 2018 F550 4x4 rolling chassis with 4.30s. I'd like to build a ramp truck (single car on my truck frame) car hauler for personal use.
For this application I might prefer 3.73 for the MPG.
What do you think?
@@xmo552 mine is a 2001 with a 7.3
Low grunt for heavey loads, the max tow.
Those prices are insane
3 year old Semi trucks are cheaper than a used 550.
For every person who buys _a little MORE truck than they need, 50 people convince themselves, they _don't need_ what the manufacturer recommends.......
I had a 4.56 differential . The top speed and Mpg was , guess what.
When are you people going to learn! A 4.30 will get better fuel mileage because the engine is not working as hard to maintain the speed. This is how you save on fuel. The smaller the gear, the harder the engine has to work to maintain the speed. Work harder=more fuel. A higher RPM has nothing to do with fuel consumption.
You said the gross vehicle weight rating on those trucks one was 18,000 lb and was 19,500 lb so legally you can't haul 40,000 lb or even 30,000 lb with those trucks. Now your hall capacity whatever number those were would be considered tongue weight you're not putting 18,000 lb worth of trailer that you're pulling and then several thousand more pounds in the bed of the truck that ain't how that works it goes strictly by the gross vehicle weight rating
Gross vehicle and Gross Combined Vehicle are two different things. Gross vehicle is the max weight on just the vehicle with you and all liquids filled up, Gross combined includes the trailer weight as part of the truck weight also. You cannot go over the gross vehicle weight or the gross combined vehicle weight. If you need a better explanation let me know I will try again. Remember the weight the trailer puts on the truck counts in the Gross vehicle weight and the combined weight.
the more gears you have less work that the engine has to do and be more efficient
Totally FALSE. Downspeeding with LOWER gears like 2.64 is the efficiency choice. Diesels do not operate efficiently at big rpm using stupid 4.30 or 4.88 gears 👻🤡
Maybe it's because you need a CDL license with the Max Tow with a full load.
CDL required after 26k. You can make a great profit hauling no CDL hot shot.
I don't understand? once you put a 10K or ab one trailer on the truck you are required to have a CDL aren't you? also if you have a 19500 gvwr that only leaves you with 6500 trailer weight before you're over 26k@@Djtruckin
@@flash996 26 k requires cdl.
Truck trailer cargo
@@flash996 doesn’t exactly work like that. The trailer has to be 10,000 GVWR or more AND equal 26,001 GCWR or more.
So at 19,500 he could pull his 9,950 GVWR black trailer and not require a Class A cdl even though his GCWR is over 26,000. It’s because the trailer is not over 10,000 GVWR. Once that happens then yes, you would need a Class A cdl for commercial use (not private though).
There is so many myths about when you need a cdl and it’s because people don’t know the laws.
Ford has different part numbers for the same part.
Man. Such a bummer. I like you so much. This is honestly horrible advice. If you hauling those kind of weights in hot shot your spending the same amount in fuel as a tractor trailer. I’m not going to bash on here. The guys in hot shot making the most money out here are Non CDL , under 26,000 k. Why pull 34,000 lbs with an$85,000 truck and no where to sleep. Used tractors are 30 to 60 k right now.
Because not everyone has a place to park a tractor. You can take that F550 anywhere.
@@southwestoffroad you can take a bobtail anywhere also, or just rent a parking spot. It’s a right off anyway
@@Djtruckin Not where I live. Most HOA’s will not allow those trucks to be parked in the neighborhood. If you live in the country then yeah go for it.
@@southwestoffroad I live in an HOA and rent off site parking. I’m just saying, you try making money pulling 30k lbs in a hot shot application in these market rates. I’m out here doing it, for the last 14 years. Good luck pulling heavy hot shot
@@Djtruckin I feel you. Personally, I just want a chassis cab to turn into an Offroad Overland truck. My brother is a truck driver driving OTR. I like coming home everyday after work. 😅
It takes real ignorance to say I don't care what anyone says and still be wrong serial numbers are supposed to be different
Of course, they are available s*** hitting the fan 😢
Buying a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge is worth anything for what they want for them.
You will never find a part with the same serial number.
Max Tow = Max MPG LOSS ✅
Woocolm back😂
Just buy a cummins. It comes from the manufacturer already max tow.
All same the rear end gear is not same
I’d get a 450 over both of those. It’ll haul the same weight and it has a full HP motor! The 550s are very de-tuned.
F450’s are just as detuned as the 550’s. The 350 cab chassis rigs are also detuned compared to their pickup bretheren, both gas and the diesels.
Negative partner, 450 with a pickup box has the HO option available. Full HP available on the new F450s.
@@farmkid7888 I was referring to the cab chassis models, as that’s what our utility buys for upfitting. It would appear as we are both right, actually.
4.30 with 500hp and 10spd is stupid!! 4.10 is more than enough. So stupid that 4.30 has 8k higher towing ratings. Unless u r max loaded in mountains 4.10 is more than enough.
This is not real advice at all. "Willing to bet on the leaf springs out back" is not real performance advice. You need the actual technical explanation on why one is different or better than another.
Dude I get it. They are different but some of the parts are the same. Serial numbers…….ARE ALWAYS DIFFERENT. You kinda failed on this one.
Woocom back😂
Good luck finding two drive shafts with the same serial number. Your intellect is leaking.
Give us Max tow with DIESEL GEARS Downspeeding, like 3.08 gears with E Lockers. Not this 4.30 CRAP designed for GASSERS
Yup, 4.30s are for hilly areas, off roaders. not for on road long haulers.
Get a real keyword not a toy
You obviously have no clue what you are talking about sir
To me if you are in the market for a new truck of that caliber why wouldn’t you just pay for the extra options because I guarantee that when you decide to sell it the buyer would probably want the max tow package if you decided to gear swap it their is no way you could do it for 1800 bucks