Good power scaling/progression is in part what makes a good story. It’s just that Dragon Ball does a really bad job at it. The leaps in power become ridiculous, unearned and narratively unbelievable. I’m not saying a story can’t be good with unbelievable power ups but it can create dissonance in the reader/watcher and take them out of the story if their egregious enough. You know a universe has really good scaling when most of the power ups feel like they make sense, are narratively appropriate and you barely notice the inconsistencies. When it comes to power scaling I think doing physics calculations or trying to compare characters from different universe is fundamentally flawed and not worth wasting your time on. Keeping track of the established rules of the universe and the ever changing hierarchies between characters is what matters. In Dragon balls case, it’s power system, Ki, is barely explained or expanded upon so it seems like characters can do pretty much anything with it. There’s no power cap or established top tier that isn’t immediately surpassed in the last arc like it’s nothing. (That starts to change sort of with Beerus and Whiz in Super but by then most of damage is already done in my opinion.) Characters get exponentially higher power levels with less and less time training or sometimes no training at all, so it feels like characters power will artificially increase as much as the plot demands. Which is true for every story but the writer should try to keep the illusion that the events of the plot could actually happen if their universe existed. Goku, Vegeta and others are also so strong now that further increases in power feel meaningless to an extent. They are capable of destroying universes so we can never get a visual display of how truly powerful they are again, like when you used to see Frieza and Vegeta casually destroying planets. Dragon ball convinced me that there is such a thing as making your characters too strong and I feel planet or galaxy level should have been the power cap. Beyond that it’s difficult to even imagine how powerful a character truly is because the scale is just so ridiculously huge. The only character from another series I can think of that is stronger than Goku is Superman, considering his best feats from the comics. I mean he lifted a book with infinite pages and hence infinite mass. It makes little sense but he still did it. Because he’s so powerful his most compelling stories are the ones where how powerful Superman is barely plays a factor. Instead their about challenging Superman’s morals and finding a way to do with what’s right without relying solely on his power. That’s why Lex Lurther is an iconic villain to so many people but stories like Darkseid killing Superman ring hollow in the long run. Especially since heroes never actually die in D.C. or marvel. Dragon Ball is a story about constantly surpassing your limits and improving as a warrior but there are more interesting ways to make a character stronger than to increase some number. Once Goku and Vegeta had begun to reach their limits in raw strength, speed and power we could see them try to improve as martial artists, learn new Ki abilities and come up with more creative ways to fight. Or the story could of simply ended far sooner to avoid Toyriyama writing himself into a corner.
No one seems to have understood the purpose of this video. It's to show the "Power Scalling" community one of its biggest failures when it comes to applying REALISTIC PHYSICS in FANTASY worlds. There are people who go further and measure the pixels of manga frames for physique measurements, this is ridiculous. The truth is that NO author cares about respecting the laws of physics (in fiction), and if at some point they exist, they are to be BROKEN without corresponding to the effects they would cause if something like that were real. This video is a demonstration of this, it exposes the pretentiousness of those who use real-world physics to cast characters that are not real. If physics were respected 100% by the works, any characters' feats would be uncontrollably disastrous. "But Goku's Ki can protect the world around him from the impact of his actions" So why didn't he just turn off this barrier in the fight against Frieza on Namekuzei when there was no longer any life left to be affected on the planet? The point is, that it is stupid to apply real physics in worlds where the only 3 laws that apply are: "Author's Will", "Audience Hype" and "Editors' Direction" which will dictate what is "logical" of happen within a work of fiction, and NONE OF THEM ARE EXPERTS IN PHYSICS. For those mature people who still continue to get into endless online arguments about which character wins which. If you care about "realism", they would all be a draw, no company that agreed to carry out this crossover would let their "mascots" be humiliated. So everyone would always be on the same level, or they would be together fighting against another big threat bigger than them. What you should remember is that it doesn't matter whether or not Goku solos X or Z. In a story what matters is its plot, and there are many anime and manga that do this many times better than Dragon Ball, which even in of its simple narrative has a great depth of narrative and moral details in its characters, but all of this is overshadowed by Fandom, which ruins the reputation of its own favorite character by constructing it as "That personalityless monster whose only feat is the of being able to solo any universe that is neither part of nor exists or matters" Many people won't even try to approach Dragonball, Naruto or other worlds of ficction because of this stupid and childish toxicity on the internet. The one who dictates the rules of a story is its author. In a crossover, it is the publishers, who will not give victory to ONE character even if it is the obvious one that should, and the fans will NEVER accept seeing their favorite lose EVEN IF IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT SHOULD. "Power Scalling" WILL ALWAYS BE AND ONLY WILL BE IN THE FANDOM HEADCANNON. But can it solo Goku, tho? :)
Absolutely spot on and correct. Your comment regarding the analysis of manga panels is part of the reason why this video spawned. Power scaling can only be reasonanbly done in the same fictional verse where you can assume the laws of physics are the same. Theres no logical basis to assume the same physics cross verses, so I can make the argument that a punch in x verse is hyperversal in y verse due to the mechanics of x verse being set up that way, and since theres no way to actually disprove that, because its fiction, it can be a valid claim. A dumb one, but equally as valid as analysing manga pixels to get speed feats.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo Even outside of physics and example I like to use is that Superman's invulnerability doesn't usually apply to magic so would nen from HxH or Cursed Energy from Jujutsu Kaisen be able to hurt Superman? The point I'm trying to make here is that at some point how different universes or stories work becomes so different that trying to ask "who would win?" or "what would happen" requires a lot of assumptions or subjectivity unless you have a word of god from an author. At this point who knows if Cursed Energy would count as magic outside their universe or if it is a magical phenomena that people in universe just call Cursed Energy. We don't have an answer to if nen and or cursed energy would count as magic because those stories and worlds weren't made with the existence of Superman, the DC universe, and how they work in mind. A distinction between magic and something else in a story might be arbitrary if you start applying it to the context of other stories. I mean sure maybe you could argue that things like this aren't magic because the characters don't literally call it magic but in some cases that's making a lot of assumptions. Sometimes a universe might not see something as magic due to their point of reference or what they are comparing to. Then you also have to consider the fact that in JJK people who used cursed energy are literally refered to as sorcerers / shamans. So are we to assume its not magic because nobody seems to explicitly call it magic or that it is magic because the people using it are sorcerers/shamans. I'm not going to make an entire essay but my core point is that even if these examples are wrong or bad you are eventually going to reach a story where how it works is so different to another story that which one wins comes down to how you choose to interpret the powers and systems from different stories interacting with each other as opposed to purely objective measurements. But that's just me.
The problem is with *powerscalers* not *powerscaling* as a concept. The real issue is powerwcalers not taking the lore of the fictional world into account when trying to wank character scaling for the sake of vs battles debates.
Yup. Pretty much it. I utterly *hate* the absolute dissonance that exists between the narrative and the conclusions some powerscalers make and then assume it to be 110% canon. Some of their calcs might make some amount of sense, but for the most part they create enormous contradictions that if taken too literally make it so that the entire story cannot possibly work at all. By the way, can you beat Goku?
@@mekingtiger9095 The point of scaling a character the right way is taking into consideration the actual story and rules of the verse itself, the way to power scale that you mentioned is called rat scaling/ratting where it's basically just a bunch of cherry picking to get the character that high.
As the person above me already stated there are different part of the powerscaling community. Some do what you say and in more recent times it feels like it has sadly become the predominant form of it/the one that people are primarily aware of as they are the most vocal whereas more level headed debates tend to happen somewhere in some forum and are kept there.
There are a lot of characters who are faster than light because light is a really fast thing so authors think it would be cool to make the characters faster than it. In One Piece there is a character who can turn into light and people can fight him and outspeed him. Yet the same characters are scared to touch magma because in the head of the writer “magma is pretty hot so that’s threatening”. All writers powerscale just by what sounds cool and threatening.
Or you have a Speedster problem. A character is so fast and so capable. Yet they can't even do much against a human level threat. I call it poor writing that a powerful character with a good guy personality, cannot even beat a few human level criminals who are not doing the Trolly Problem.
@@1001011011010Rayleigh faught on equal speed and said he is slow and old so Prime Rayleigh, Law can teleport if you count that, Luffy dodged light in base 800 chapters ago and even though he faught roughly evenly with Kizaru recently that lines up better with Kizaru being faster than light, and Shanks showed up to Marineford without anyone noticing so at least Shanks because he seemed to outspeed Ben Beckman later. There a lot of maybes like Prime Whitebeard and Roger, Oden, Kaido (seeing as he had no fear of admirals), Imu, Rocks but not enough evidence for me to fully put them on here
@@nerdcorner2680 Oh brother you're doing the very thing that powerscalers try to do... Listen, you don't have to be faster than light to dodge a light beam. You can just dodge where it's going to be. Like if a regular human dodges a bullet, he doesn't actually have to be faster than a speeding bullet. He "just (in scarequotes since that is still a very tall order, but a LOT easier than actually being faster than a speeding bullet)" has to avoid its trajectory. And they also have haki in OP which enables increased observation, even into the future, especially for straightforward attacks like the trajectory of a light beam. Kizaru isn't always light speed. They make a big show of when he transforms to light and travels lightspeed or extremely close to light speed. He was in his human form fighting Rayleigh.
@@1001011011010 Keep in mind this is fiction. Characters can easily be faster than light because you just write it to be so. Superman shooting lasers from his eyes because he is an alien makes no sense with biology but we accept it because the story laid it out and keeps it consistant. And I get that one piece is saying characters move via prediction, but Kaido still blitzed Luffy (to the point where he couldn’t even move to dodge) even while using an advanced version of it that lets you see seconds into the future because he was too slow, yet light wasn’t too fast for him. It is much less of a leap in logic for One Piece that Kizaru can move faster than light (his devil fruit plus his own speed or just mastery of his devil fruit) due to lightning constantly being dodged easily and the previous scaling I said earlier, than it is to say that everyone is really slow and
At first I thought you didn't realize that fiction doesn't adhere to reality, but then I realized while watching that you do understand that, and are instead calling BS on people cherry picking when to apply real world physics to characters to try to argue who is stronger. While I do agree to an extent, I also think for at least some people, it's done in good fun, but I do agree some take it way too seriously and lose sight of the fact that a lot of what people do is make assumptions about how 2 different characters in 2 different verses would interact with one another. This is especially true when dealing with supernatural characters since at that point we don't even have real world physics to try to cherry pick from. Good video.
Dragon Ball power-scaling is just nonsense in general: even if we assume Goku can break the light-speed limit (physics goes out the window as explained in the video), why does the tournament of power last like an hour, instead of a few femtoseconds? With the speeds claimed by powerscalers, and the ridiculous variations in power (characters getting billions of times stronger in an hour, for some reason), no fight should ever last more than a microsecond, and no planet said fights take place on should still be a planet after the fight. Pretty much every character is at the very least thousands of times more/less powerful than their opponent, so no fight should be close (most should end in one hit).
@@Alphaj0r Reserving energy in a fight to the death with unknown opponents is beyond silly, especially if we're talking about using less than a trillionth of a percent...
It's even worse than that. If you actually read the manga, it becomes abundantly clear that Goku and gang can NOT move at the speed of light. - Nappa can't react to the Nimbus which, according to Vegeta, took over "four minutes" to fly from Korin's tower to the battlefield. [Chapter 222] - Krillin takes a few hours to go from the Grand Elder's place and bring Gohan back. One trip is 30 days of walking according to Dende. [Chapters 260 and 265] - Vegeta considers traversing 20,000km in the 1-2 second gap that Goku was gone for to be far beyond the capacity of super-speed. [Chapter 336] - 16 says it would take the androids a couple of minutes if they flew to Goku's house. [Chapter 357] - Krillin said he'd have to go "all-out" to outspeed Bulma's plane, which took 20-30 minutes to fly from Capsule Corp to Kame House. [Chapter 369] - Trunks takes so much time to fly from the lookout and grab the Dragon Radar that Buu can destroy an entire city in that timeframe, with regular humans running around in panic and reacting to the events that transpire in real time. This also includes Buu changing his appearance to try and get a woman to kiss him, and Goku explaining to Piccolo the strain that SSJ3 puts on his body. [Chapters 473 and 476] - Gotenks takes nearly a minute to fly over to Buu's house. [Chapter 482] - Vegeta needs 5 seconds to fly from Capsule Corp to Satan City. [DBS chapter 42]
@@2balls4me Ya, now turn to piccolo ki blasting the moon in mere seconds (they're easy to dodge for dbz characters). Also, these are very old. There's new feats that includes galaxy distance traveling, (jiren, bills, whis and the new villain who absorbs powers, which name i don't remember), it's obviously cannon that they're faster than light.
Excellent video. You encapsulate perfectly why I can’t take physics calculations and pixel scaling in power scaling serious and that’s coming from a physics major. It’s all about how powerful characters are relative to others in their respective universes at the end of the day. How can we compare characters across different universes when we don’t even know how their different rules and possibly physics would interact with each other? The answer is you can’t and serious power scaling can only be relegated to comparing characters of the same universe using the rules and feats established by the author. It can be fun to use physics to see if things would be possible in fictional universes, such as could a rubber person like Luffy survive Enel’s lightning for example. And it can be fun to discuss with your friends could Satima beat Goku or something. But none of these things should actually be taken seriously at the end of the day because there is no real answer to these questions. Serious power scaling will always be ambiguous too (because it’s all made up by the author at the end of the day) but not completely because you can discuss what would be logically consistent based on what the author has shown us so far.
I don't care much for Powerscaling but the only type of VS matchups I like are matches between characters in the same universe around the same power that have never actually fought or met each other in universe.
It depends tbh, I am honestly very curious how the Ajin and Demon Slayer universe would interact with the Zerg, for example, or the Zerg invading the God of War universe as another example. Will the vampires adapt to fight Zerg? How will the Ajin operate? How will the zerg use the physical bodies of the Ajin? How will the Zerg face off against the immortal Baldur? How long will they fight? What will be the eventual outcome? These are very interesting what if scenarios IMO
@@jacobharris5894 well yeah but sometimes you can't do that hence people have to work with what they have Tho sometimes I agree people wank stuff too much
if you exceeded the speed of light while moving in a straight line, barring the obvious issue outlined in this video on infinite energy being a requirement to even reach c, the time fuckery would ensure you never do... assume you're travelling at the speed of light, you won't experience any passage of time, however the moment you are faster than light, time goes backwards, meaning that your forward movement in space actually happens backwards in time, you just reversed your own arrow of time by exceeding c. from an observer's perspective, what they'll see is another you, your future self, moving towards you while pointing thier ship in the same direction, cause they're traveling back in time relative to you. this means that attempting to exceed the speed of light puts your speed of light self on a one way collision course with your future self from one planck time in the future. or in other words, tl;dr: if you run around a tree faster than the speed of light you will fuck your future self in the ass
This really highlights my main gripe with powerscaling and using math for VS debates over the years. It's crazy to think that a decade ago, it was agreed that a character being able to blow up a solar system was impressive, only for people to then ''discover'' that a lot of characters could actually blow up universes...somehow. And now you're in a situation where every single character is suddenly faster than light and galactic level regardless of how much sense that makes in practice. This is what made me just stop caring about power scaling all together and at the very least taught me it's just better to not take it that seriously. Honestly, I think the best way to approach ''serious'' power scaling...is to just use plain old common sense and ask yourself if the author really intended their character to be as strong as the calcs suggest. You can really avoid a lot of headaches and fallacies by just asking yourself ''Did Nintendo really intend to establish Mario as a character that can destroy a universe or am I just making up BS?'', because most of the time the most simple answer is usually the correct one. (And yes, the example is from experience since I consider it one of the most eggregious cases of BS power scaling I've ever seen) Because of the nature of fiction, applying real math to it is going to be inherently flawed because it will never be portrayed realistically, you could take a character from a series that has no superpowers at all and still BS big numbers out of it by taking a scene where the character is animated with a lot of exaggerated speedlines as they deliver a punch exaggerated for the sake of a joke and then apply real physics to it, even when as far as the author is concerned, the character is just an average person. TL;DR: Common sense and context is just better than convoluted math.
Ppl do calcs of the feat that was done by characters. Let say you can react to sound, you basically have sound barrier perception speed. Let say you can react to real lightning, you are basically the same tier as lightning. Let say you can react to light beams, you are basically near light speed. Let say you travelled to Jupiter from Earth in seconds. You are basically faster than light itself. Because Sun light, takes near 8 minutes to reach Earth. And these characters took seconds to travelled to Jupiter from Earth. See the difference. Let say a character moved in stop time, and their timeline time is also stopped. It means you are beyond speed itself, so real ppl makes words for that definition.
@@tsumikiayato1560these people do these things for fun. Some do take it serious, but doing these things won't affect them directly on the world society. Since they are literally doing it for fun, posting it on the internet. So obviously they wouldn't get the chance to get real work that is related to physics. 💀🤦🏽♂️ Pls stop trying to be smart, by twisting your words.
@@chiaki.hayakawa18lmao mental gymnastics. No, people do not do calcs based on what the character did, they do calcs based on what they THINK the character did. Dodging something does not mean you are fastest than that object, it just means you moved out of the way before it reached its destination. Why do I need to explain that to you?
It always weird when people try to use real world physics on superpowered fictional characters, in fictional worlds with different laws of physics, to prove something. I get they are having fun pinning characters against each other but it doesn’t work when they try to prove their point using real world physics in this case. I usually hate those arguments, they never end. Everyone is trying to defend their favorite character so they keep finding ways to do that.
I think the problem is that people don’t understand that applying real world physics to fiction is not power scaling. You guys have a misconception on powerscaling, when you power scale you only use the information presented by the narrative of the story. There is no room for applying real life logic and physics to the fiction, this is not something that power scalers do.
I mean you take feats, but it can also be fun to equalize the characters and see how they stack up. One I like is Kirby versus Kid Buu. As Kirby is a pretty solid counter due to being a pure of heart character while Kid Buu is pure evil. I don't think Kirby can beat everyone, but it is fun seeing how they stack up. As long as you are fine with your character losing, it isn't an issue.
@@deuslouis7030it’s not just that. There was another video that said, “powerscaling doesn’t make much sense because imagine if black frieza showed up in Naruto’s universe, Naruto wouldn’t lose he would find a way to beat the villain. Does that make him stronger than him?” Or something along those lines, but I kinda agree with that. Like it’s just what moves that story forward or who the writers want to win it doesn’t have to make sense. The characters are not fixed at a certain power, which is kind of annoying honestly. One time he can do something other times he can’t for some reason
@@aceaj2620 None of that makes any sense, not from a power scaling stand point or from a writing stand point. Writers HAVE to make their stories make sense at least in the context of the story. Sure if Freiza showed up and they wanted Naruto to win, they get him to that point but they would go about it in a way that makes the win make sense. In stories like these, they typically do stuff like give the protagonist a power-up that allows them to defeat their opponent like how goku got a power up in the broly movie that gave him the ability to defeat broly. Or maybe they’ll go for the sealing route where they’ll come up with a plan that allows them to seal Freiza away. There are multiples ways it can make sense but the thing is, is that it HAS to make sense. I don’t know why you think it doesn’t, stories especially in fiction are judged by their world and how effectively they can convey their ideas. Part of that idea is the world that the characters live in, most of it has to be explained or at the very least make sense to the audience. This is very well known idea in the world of writing fiction, multiples authors have commented on this concept. You can even search up multiple quotes for proof, here’s a few; “The trouble with writing fiction is that it has to make sense, whereas real life doesn’t.” - Iain Banks. “The difference between life and the movies is that a script has to make sense, and life doesn't.” - Joseph L. Mankiewicz “The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.” - Tom Clancy I think this illustrates my point pretty well, also you are kinda right that a character isn’t fixed at a certain power. But that is entirely dependent on the character, characters like Yamcha are very likely to get weaker or time same thing with beginning of super krillin, but characters like Freiza are only going to get stronger.
I'm a dragon ball fan and have watched some of these power scaling videos. I can dip into the logical fallacy that a character is FTL, but when someone tries to mathematically calculate the characters power, while simultaneously claiming they are FTL, it breaks my brain a bit. they are just using mathematics selectively because mass going FTL = infinite energy/power.
@@scorchercast8366 makes for better storytelling of they keep things surface level. Our brains precieve sound and light as being the same speed, unless there is a very large distance between us and the thing we observe. We just tell ourselves that our brains are wrong and its different in reality.
@@scorchercast8366 There are actually such things as larger infinities - for instance there are an infinite number of odd numbers, but there are twice as many numbers as there are odd numbers alone, so that's an infinite that's twice as big. But yeah whoever said that about Goku is pretty obviously stupid as all hell.
Jokes asides... Manga Goku is actually High Complex Multiversal given everything the Manga has stated. So instead of using IRL Math. I'm just pointing at the source material. Compared to Zeno Goku (a variant of Base Form Goku) who far exceeds High Complex Multiversal and is 8th Dimensional, given the source material. (9th Dimensional is Pseudo/True Omnipotence as properly shown with Over Void/Over Monitor in DC Comics.)
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 more dimensions doesn't yield higher power, lol. Goku barely has the evidence to prove he has aleph null power and nothing more.Take it or leave it.
@@uboa8060 Manga Goku shaked the cosmology of his Universe during the Gods of Destruction Arc. Zeno Goku defeated characters near the 7th and the 8th dimension of Existence... High End Conceptual/Personifications who transcend the dimensionality of the cosmologies. Among other similar levels of powers / meta narratives. Zeno Goku is cracked compared to Manga Goku. Manga Goku is High Complex Multiversal at best, on par with Rebirth Superman in the current chapters. (But again... Zeno Goku is a variant of Base Form Goku. It's just a comparison to the gap in power when measured with Manga Goku, who has done more than to Anime Goku.) Oh... And more dimensions does yield higher power. Where do you think omnipotence exists at? It's in the 9th Dimension and both Zeno & Shenron covet that level of existence.
This video was spawned because the equation for kinetic energy E = 1/2 mv^2 should never be used to scale relativistic speeds. Ever. Also, the real world implications for anything, even with someone like 0.000000001kg of mass travelling at light speed, are waaaay more catastrophic than what comics and manga would lead you to believe.
Pretty sure kinetic energy is very often disregarded by the power scaling community for this exact reason. Or at least by Vs. Battle Wiki. Still, setting Relativistic Physics aside, even with basic Newtonian Physics most of the feats shown by characters in fiction would already be catastrophic aswell.
@@mekingtiger9095 Oh 100%, but the reason I wanted to bring in relativistic kinetic energy is because FTL feats are so common place in comics and manga and they dont even cause a sonic boom half the time, when really, if we used our physics, they'd blow up the universe or at the very least cause a black hole to form.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo I feel like that’s overshooting it, but we already know what happens with the Relativistic Baseball. They’d obliterate the entire planet. I am pretty sure Goku is Faster-Than-Light, doesn’t he fly across Cosmic Distances that would be impossible to cross without it?
@@Spino-hx2mr It could also be bending space, or translating across it without actual momentum, which are both much more plausible to consider than just being faster than the fastest mass can get.
@@FarremShamist I haven't really watched Dragon Ball, but it doesn't seem like they usually bend Spacetime in the lesser forms, it'd be super cracked if they did. I think one Excerpt states an Aura can do that, but its done to counter a Timestop. Beside, who's to say it operates like our Modern Day version of Physics? Sure, you can assume most exist, but there's nothing stating that the Speed of Light is the maximum anything in the Universe can go.
If you're saying Goku is X strong because insert mathematical or physics calculations as an argument, then pointing out how his feat doesn't make sense within scientific framework those calculations are took from isn't appealing to anything, it's just pointing out a huge logical hole.
Oh, if that's the case, then nothing matters anyway ..how do you even know how strong or weak anything is?? Scaling of fiction is a stupid thing ppl do.... no matter how you look at it.
@@breckhhh that literally makes no sense , again it’s a story it’s to fit the narrative of a fictional world where cosmic beings and aliens fight come on now
In theory if Goku farts whilst moving at light speed everything just fucking dies but mangakas don’t care about logic they just want their characters to be super duper strong
@@FazeRustyNutsif he bled whilst moving at light speed, if he lost a single cell whilst moving light speed he could do so much damage. People are failing to comprehend just how much force anything moving at light speed would have
This is a pretty good video. While I dont fully agree, there is a good point about how the vs debates communities(and especially self declared power scallers) have a massive double standard about physics and math, only using it when it gives them the highest possible numbers and power levels. But this goes to everything really. Feats, author statements, environmental effects, in-universe statements, in-universe myths, etc.
Imagine that being an ending arc to it, where they realize just what they did, and now this character has to spend the rest of their life or eternity in what remains of the universe they annihilated.
Same explained of why superman doesnt break huge stuff he carries, akin he has a telekinetic aura. But well, its just a way to iffily explain unrealistic stuff with physics term so it looks real. It helps with immersion, but initial inputs became so absurd, that it leads characters becoming literal gods with their own mythologies due to how broken these initial powers are for realistic physics. It helps wow effect, but its sad they have to explain fun stories to degree its mandatory. Some stories are not meant to be scifi, but eventually get dragged into it. No one cared about moon being destroyed by Roshi in original dragonball, but somewhere else its a monstrous feat with huge impact on Earth, like movie moonfall. Fantasy worlds initially have whole different physics and by dragging them to realistic rules just to compare blows them up to absurd numbers. And characters with accurate physics will lose just because other side didnt gave crap about it and fans blew it into godhood levels. Like when Saitama and Popeye were compared in Death Battle. Toonforce is not a real force unless its explicitly a character breaking laws of its universe like Discord from MLP. Just because some characters never shown any weaknesses does not mean they will be invulnerable in other universes with their laws. They would not fit anyway, its like pulling Bugs Bunny into terminator movie. Goku cannot be compared to likes of, for example, Saitama. Feats do not work same way, nor do multipliers and numbers. Goku in his childhood had like 10 power level at start. barely twice as strong as farmer, but tanked a bullet. Its fun for story, but when you wanna go boring mode and dig that into realism, it just falls apart. Same with lightspeed, same with superman pin holding huge buildings with power of mind.... More fandoms get into realism from unrealistic setting and more bullshit they gather to explain said powers, it basically just ends up with universe destroying because characters are gods, and if Popeye tilted earth by punching up his enemy and earth comedically tilted, it means popeye punched with planet busting punch, ignoring fact his enemy didnt flied into stars and fell back. What he is, made of neutron star to be that heavy? Its just comedy and epic moments made for effectiveness, not to be real. Interstellar was realistic, and even it had its own fantasy stuff. comparing characters from different universes is dumb, yet alone explaining it with real life physics and "yottatons of tnt" Yeah i hate explanation part of Death Battle, im just up for animation.
I think powerscaling is a fun concept. But i really hate the "FTL" stuff, like somehow every character past Haku in Naruto now is FTL because of mirrors, and every Bleach Character above a Lieutenant level is FTL because Menos grande caja negaccion, It doesn't even make sense for most situations in the story for 80% of the characters in all stories nowadays to be FTL. So yeah, it really doesn't make any sense period based on physics as per your entire video. But also just for the story to work we can't assume any slightly powerful character inside a story is at light speed because he interacted with the only real speedster in their universe once. Anyway great video, minus the jumpscare, i actually disliked that a lot.
Same thing with Jojo, they somehow forget that the WHOLE FUCKING POINT of the mirror guy fight in part 3 was that Jotaro COULDN'T see the guy moving between reflections, so they had to force him to go a certain way and stick their stuff in the way of said movement. So then you have these (at the current time) physically strongest stands going from punching buildings and turning them into FtL gods. Hell even facing against Made In Heaven, a stand that OUTSPEEDS Jotaro, this doesn't make them go "hey maybe we messed up," they go "Made In Heaven is BEYOND light speed" or some other bs.
Yeah... I like for example in Fire Force, (At least the part i watched i don't know how things evolve after that) where the main character can move at speed of light, but like just in a straight line and he can't do much else... (I mean, don't know if now he has somehow mastered that and become Light speed effortlessly) @@thunderspark1536
@@bharatcosmos7743yea jjk goes for abilities instead of strength and speed, which makes physically strong characters have more impact when they do appear
....well they are maybe right,but that Is mostly because the author don't care and use the Logic of gag manga in a fighting One.....in short they don't realize that the series isn't that Deep,but that Is Dragonball fan being Dragonball fan
the problem is that before using our science and physics to scale, you gotta prove that it applies for example in certain verses, some laws of physics dont exist and we have to take that in count while scaling thats what we call cosmology cosmology can explain why certain characters can move at the speed of light we could also say that goku uses his ki which allows him to bypass the laws of physics, thats another argument too so yes being ftl is possible also, when a character moves at the speed of light, it doesn't necessarily mean they travel an infinite distance with that speed for example, haku (in naruto) can move faster than light but for a very short distance, between his mirrors
@@marioagiota he is saying something like "Ki can break down physics" There is one issue: Ki is probably safe to assume is "energy" or some sort of condensed light. also according to the guy who posted the comment "goku can fly because ki breaks the laws of physics". That's cap, you can argue, almost certainly, that the characters in dragon ball use ki to oppose their own weight and apply more to accelerate in a given direction. Extra info below: Also: it is said that goku couldn't survive in space against frieza in namek, and frieza could, here is why: boiling point is related to pressure. low pressure = really low boiling point. For humans (or saiyans, get real) it is around 30-40 °C. which is below the boiling point of water in space. Frieza although not stated directly but we can assume his blood is cold, (I mean his race is literally called Cold Demons or something like that, and all of frieza's race are named after something cold, example: frieza (freezer, literally.), king cold (self explanatory), cooler (lol). You get the point).
1. That’s just special pleading 2. You missed the point of the video, which is about what I would expect from someone into “power scaling.” 3. You are still wrong based on the internal logic of the series. People calculate DBZ characters to be faster than light from the beginning of the series, but the androids (who are massively stronger than everything beforehand) can’t sense ki (this is not arguable, it’s part of the plot), therefore the only way for the androids to fight is by sight. Sight works by light. If someone is faster than light, it is by definition impossible to see them. You can try to cope that this just means they aren’t faster than light until afterwards, but then you’ve broken your own system of “scaling” by admitting it’s wrong.
@@sigiligus "1. That’s just special pleading 2. You missed the point of the video, which is about what I would expect from someone into “power scaling.”" explain, making random claims isn't gonna do much "People calculate DBZ characters to be faster than light from the beginning of the series, but the androids (who are massively stronger than everything beforehand) can’t sense ki (this is not arguable, it’s part of the plot), therefore the only way for the androids to fight is by sight. Sight works by light. If someone is faster than light, it is by definition impossible to see them." and what did i say ? they use ki to break the laws of physics, therefore, using ki to enhance the vision is totally possible so whats your argument ? you missed the point of my comment "You can try to cope that this just means they aren’t faster than light until afterwards, but then you’ve broken your own system of “scaling” by admitting it’s wrong." no you simply misred my comment and missed the point
@@user-zl1vf4me1p "Ki is probably safe to assume is "energy" or some sort of condensed light. also according to the guy who posted the comment "goku can fly because ki breaks the laws of physics". That's cap, you can argue, almost certainly, that the characters in dragon ball use ki to oppose their own weight and apply more to accelerate in a given direction." you have no proof of that tho, you're just assuming everything ki isn't some sort of condensed light, it's spiritual energy which im pretty sure defies all laws of physics as physics don't take in count spiritual energy "it is said that goku couldn't survive in space against frieza in namek, and frieza could, here is why: boiling point is related to pressure. low pressure = really low boiling point. For humans (or saiyans, get real) it is around 30-40 °C. which is below the boiling point of water in space. Frieza although not stated directly but we can assume his blood is cold, (I mean his race is literally called Cold Demons or something like that, and all of frieza's race are named after something cold, example: frieza (freezer, literally.), king cold (self explanatory), cooler (lol). You get the point)." no its because sayians can't breathe in space, vegeta already said it
Honestly, the biggest thing about powerscaling? When, in any of these fantasy series with magic and everything, does it state that actual IRL physics applies? Some it obviously does, like jujutsu kaisen because it's urban fantasy, but if it's not stated that a laser has all the implications, it does not have those fuckin' implications. Haku having mirrors does not mean that he goes the speed of light, or that the speed of light is even a thing in Naruto. Starcraft battlecruisers shooting a laser doesn't mean the marines are a gigameter tall, because there's nothing to say that there's a speed of light in Starcraft (and honestly, more against it, space magic). It means that people reacting to force lightning doesn't make them gods that can accelerate to lightspeed in an instant, it means that someone dodging anything that resembles a laser isn't able to clean the ears of everyone on earth within 10 seconds. It's nonsense. Also, dimensions. What is that? What does it even mean? Yes, that one character from superman, the mr gibberish one, was really really strong because he was '4 dimensional', but it's bizarre that it's become this ladder of "this character's more omnipotent than your character!!" kind of statement. Because, if nothing else, if it really was that big a thing? Ramiel from Evangelion would instantly end the series. It's explicitly 4-dimensional. It's just... another spatial dimension. That whole flavour of power scaling makes my brains melt out of my ears whenever I see it.
That point about lasers is very true. People don't seem to understand that the word "laser" is colloquially used to refer to any type of generic energy beams. The vast, overwhelming majority of humanity doesn't even know what the word "laser" stands for. They just see a beam and they slap the word laser on it. There are people who, to this very day, refer to Kamehameha or other Ki blasts as "laser beams" or "laser blasts" even tho those things obviously are not lasers. Until it's stated the laser in question explicitly travels at the speed of light, then dodging said lasers is not a quantifiable speed feat. Dimensional tiering is arguably even bigger garbage than "laser dodging" feats, as it has literally 0 mathematical or scientific basis. Mass is not a dimensional unit, and is therefore irrelevant to whatever your extension in spatial dimensions might be. And velocity is something that can be measured in only one dimension. The core premise of dimensional tiering is therefore dead wrong. Someone being from a "higher dimension" does not automatically mean that they are "infinitely stronger" or "infinitely bigger" than a lower dimensional creature. If we have a 5D Goddess with a mass of 100kg who is moving at a velocity of 5 m/s, and a regular 3D bloke with a mass of 100kg who is also moving at a velocity of 5 m/s, then they both have the exact same kinetic energy. Period. No matter how much power scalers stomp their feet and whine about how their character is a "+60000D dimensionally transcend complex hypertransversal god who scales above fiction," it's not going to change the plain and simple fact that dimensions have nothing to do with how hard one can strike or how much damage they can tank.
Power scalers are obnoxious and make everything about what tier they fall into and if they can beat Goku. but writers can make a character do a thing that would be impossible without surpassing the speed of light and it would be fine. I always hate when some jackass on the internet says what is and isn’t possible in FICTION.
Very interesting. This video looks like it took useful effort to make. Great job. 👍 Of course, the true justification is simply that fictional characters can operate under science-fiction logic and magical logic where their superpowers aren't accurate to realistic science.
One of the most ridiculous things I have seen in Dragon Ball "physics" is when Goku and Berus clashes were said to be ripping apart the very fabric of the universe while earth was just fine. And by fine I mean not even tsunamis and hurricanes were created while the whole universe was being threatened.
And people say that because Goku AND Beerus threatened to break the universe, then GOKU is multiversal? He didn’t BREAK the universe, him and beerus together both shook the universe
@@godzilla-thekaiju4142They were about to destroy it and they destroyed multiple planets as seen in the manga, they say he is multiversal because the macroscom is said to be Five dimensional, and SSJB is literally 50x stronger than SSG either way, also, the shockwaves were a result of beerus power which goku later equalized, preventing the universe of being destroyed
@@Alphaj0r Facts... That was literally in the Manga and lightly mentioned in the Anime. It is NOT something Power Scalers thought of when the source material literally calls it out. It's the same with Kratos vs Thor in regard to the World Tree and Odin. This is all source material. It's undeniable.
It's like the fabric of the universe that's in danger, not just that there're stong breezes or whatever Like the actual objects within the universe were probably OK until the fabric actually gets destroyed Or something
@@godzilla-thekaiju4142the dragon ball universe is different from ours as it’s multilayered. It’s a macrocosim that consists of near countless universal sized realms that are infinite in size and they all have there own logic and time. The clash was felt within these universes making the feat low multiversal. Do you even watch dragon ball?
My two main issues with power scalers is they treat every universe physics as equal then compare it to real would physics. And they treat flashier sounding abilities as stronger than they are and down play others plain sounding skills. An example of this is Anos from Misfit at demon king academy is treated as having immeasurable speed because he can move during a "time stopping" spell, but won't put Goku on that level of speed when he has moved during a "time stopping" skill (Destroying Hit's time stopping ability) or when he forced himself into the future (to defend himself against Hit's time stopping skill). If we were to use real world physics if time truly stopped it would be total darkness for the person using the skill since light is no longer moving for them to see.
Thats cuz most people are unsure if its a "He's faster than time" or a "He broke through by having more ki, and also whether hit's ability is stopping time since they don't make it super easy to understand. In the manga it even states that someone stronger than hit can break his time ability so there's also that. Anos' is more clear and cut since its a legit time stop and he just moves through it either cuz of speed or cuz of some resistance he has. Also stop trying to argue that time stop can't happen when a series already has junk that doesn't apply with real world physics like shooting lasers out the palms of their hands or flying. Clearly they have their own laws of physics that apply to them.
For as much flack as power scalers get for ignoring the story for their feats. People don't use the breaking Hit's time skip for speed because of what the story said. A broken clock is right twice a day.
People in the power scalling community really ignore how many inconsistencies arrive when a character moves at relativistic speeds they should use more common sense when doing their hobby
“Common sense” is always irrational. And they use a specific kind of physics to be accurate to the stories they discuss, not to be accurate to reality. Y’all just like talking about shit you don’t involve yourself with, mind your business boys.
@@ShesBearynice if what you say its true then they shouldnt use physics in the first place to powerscale and only use feats consistent with the story itself. you cant just take what is usefull to make the point of why x character is this strong when they collapse under the same logic. But I guess you are right I shouldnt involve myself with a community of people whose 3/4 of their population cant even do their own hobby properly while claiming they are logical, or consistent.
Not really take for example Kizaru from OP who was stated to be able to move at lightspeed... Any character that keeps up with him can move at that speed as well obviously Writers really don't take into account the laws of physics, they just write Or shinra who when he approaches lightspeed the mechanics in his verse is quite different, instead of acquiring infinite mass his body destroys time reverses and it reattaches again It really depends on how the writers wants to write his story and powerscalers just follows the laws of the individuals universe
You don’t understand what powerscaling is. Powerscalers tell you that you don’t know anything about the hobby, and you just wanna feel smart by pretending that a conversation you don’t have interest in is an inferior way to spend time because YOU want to feel smart 😂😂😂
This is the second major problem with excessive powerscaling. The first is that 99% of authors don't write with powerscaling in mind, meaning there can be a lot of outlier feats that are solely for the rule-of-cool. The second problem is the "It's fictional so things work different" defense I've seen. That would be fine, but you can't apply real world sciences to explain how strong someone is, then when the problem comes up that some feats that go into that result don't work according to said real-world science, you say the real world science doesn't matter.
Yes, you can. You’re just reframing the way people have these discussions in a way that cuts out the reasoning why they selectively apply aspects of physics, because you don’t want to accept that people do so purposefully to construct the most consistent interpretations of their fictional character’s physical capabilities for the purpose of having a fun thought experiment, because you’re just as annoying as they are and you can’t tell that 😂
@@ShesBearyniceInstead of being an ass under other people's comments, make your own video lil bro. I also don't have to explain that "selectively applying aspects of physics" is nonsense because physics come in a package that is intertwined with our reality. Find something else to do
I draw the line at "this feat shows that they should be able to do x thing" and then the story shows them clearly not able to do that very thing later on and they ignore it, and that's NOT a power scaling issue, that's on the scaler, it's an outlier, it's just VERY few scalers I've seen will ever call something and outlier if it favors their argument They kind of just want to argue tbh
In DC it's explained that reason why Flash doesn't destroy everything around him when he moves faster than the speed of light is because he has a "speed force aura" that protects him and anyone that he is saving when moves. I think something similar is in dragon ball too where all the ki users have this unseen aura that protects everyone and everything around them.
@@ch4rliegaming They probably dial back how strong the blast radius is or something. The flash can pretty much do the same bro can defy the speed force protection and fucking break through gravel and shit and light stuff on fire.
Reminds me of someone saying Goku in original Dragon Ball was multi light speed because he blitzed a guy who blitzed a guy. "Because you can't perceive someone moving at light speed"
He did move faster than a solar flare or whatever the technique is called, I kinda forgot because it isn't used anymore, but he moves faster than it to get his sunglasses in one point if I remember correctly.
When people use an appeal to reality fallacy in power scaling discussions, they are essentially relying on real-world constraints or limitations to argue against hypothetical scenarios or the rules within a fictional universe. This fallacy occurs when someone dismisses a concept or idea solely based on the belief that it doesn't align with the current understanding of reality. In power scaling, especially in the context of fictional worlds like in anime, comics, or other speculative genres, the rules and constraints are often defined by the creators. These rules may deviate from real-world physics or logic. People using an appeal to reality fallacy may argue that certain powers or events are implausible based on real-world science or logic, ignoring the established rules within the fictional setting.
The point of this video is to show why cross scaling universes with ftl feats using irl maths is dumb, as there is no pre ordained rules made by the creators for this to work in, so people rely on 'our' physics. But you can't do that.
“I don’t like it when people yell about things!” I’m sorry your mom and dad traumatized you so much with their verbal abuse at each other that you can’t ignore nerds arguing about stupid shit.
Power scaling, that's the good ole "my dad can beat up your dad" you've heard in schoolyards. Stan Lee has stated that who wins a fight depends on who the scriptwriter wants to win.
Yeah, and do you know what writing a script requires? A world that is just realistic enough to be understood as relatable to the reader, with rules that are just consistent enough to explain and make the story make sense. So, powerscaling, and very rough, not 100% exact physics. If your characters have “speed”, they literally must be traveling a distance over time in their world. Uh-oh, sounds like an aspect of physics is real in a story! 😂😂😂
There are many knowledgeable people in the comments but very few intellegent people. Holy smokes and its clear this guy filters comments due to all the comments agreeing with each other
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo Critical thinking is the baby of intelligence. Anyone who's actually messed around with mathematical proofs would recognize that the thought processes you need to navigate proofs are the same thought procceses needed for powerscaling Powerscaling is quite literally "critical thinking exercises." Critical Thinking >>>>>> Knowledge so to draw your sword against anything that improves the critical thinking of the populace means you are ANTI-Intelligence. And that makes you my sworn enemy "Knowledge" people always have the worst case of Intelligence Blindness
This vid is totally pointless. Obviously physics only makes sense in reality. Powerscaling came about to put plausible ends to debates about 'x character from x verse vs y character from y verse.' As we only have the math for reality and not the endless plethora of fictional verses, they use what they know and form scales to apply them to whatever mediums they're measuring and comparing.
everyone's happy and all until the mangaka says bullshit like "its faster than light 100% facts no cap" and then we cannot do shit about it because he created the character.
Don't forget Goku can reach inaccessible speed/ faster than instantaneous movement. Now I'm not too big into numbers such as yourself(🤓) but I'm pretty sure if you are going faster than a type of movement that can travel vast distances in 0 seconds, then that would cause some problems
man wtf kind of bs is that, thats not a feat thats just some kindergarten level "My character is infinity speed so I win" type bullshit. How tf does anyone take this shit seriously
@@mrsketchysketch680infinite speed means he could just run really fast and instantly kill whoever he wants due to the force of impact also being infinite, heck he could just carry a single grain of sand and do infinite damage as the sand would have infinite speed as well.
Cross-universe powerscaling is only really possible to do with very low powerlevel ones, like Kengan Asura vs Baki fights. Once you start to get into muh FTLs it gets really hard. I still like it though because not everything needs to be correct to be fun.
You can’t even do it with Baki due to how ridiculous it is. Baki powerscalers are just as bad. The amount of times they reference a feat, it doesn’t make sense in context or overall. Like Yujiro somehow stopping an earthquake, but this ability is never seen again or make sense to other characters who are supposedly physically stronger like Pickle.
@@FlashmanJW Baki is pretty absurd, but you can still do lowball/highball, choosing to ignore or accept outlier feats like the earthquake thing. Powerscaling isn't this always precise art, it's just a hobby
🤓Quick correction🤓: With special relativity, physicists today don’t really use relativistic mass. For the full energy equation of energy, E=γmc^2. With the schwarzschild radius equation, it uses rest mass, not relativistic mass. The laws of physics are the same for any observer under constant motion, so travelling faster wouldn’t increase the Schwarzschild radius. Therefore, Goku travelling close to the speed of light wouldn’t crush everything under our laws of physics. Warning: Tangents. If Goku would want to fly around in space under our laws of physics, he’d have to accelerate another mass in the opposite direction, like an actual rocket does. Unlike a rocket, he’d have to produce the mass as he flies, by creating equal amounts of matter and antimatter at a high relative velocity (the alternative would be to use up biological waste). Anything the beam of matter and antimatter would hit would gain an equal amount of momentum to Goku, but in the opposite direction. It would also cause annihilation to occur, releasing energy equal to the amount Goku put in to create the mass. What’s funny is that if you were to try to construct a universe without the effects of special relativity, the universe would still be different to that of DBZ or any other fictional universe, as light wouldn’t exist. Light (electromagnetic waves) is made up of fluctuations along the magnetic and electric field. A change in the electric field causes an opposite change in the magnetic field and vice versa, which is a result of special relativity. So Goku, governed purely by Newtonian physics would be able to travel as fast as he’d want, but he’d be blind.
Good response, I was hoping someone would ask some physics stuff. In regards to your first point, Relativistic Mass is quite literally the rest mass multiplied by the Lorentz factor, M = γm, as explained at 0:52. so E= Mc^2 is very valid. For special relativity at least, relativistic mass is still very much in use and there is 100% an increased in the observed mass of an object the faster it goes. For the bit about the Schwarzschild radius equation, you're very much correct. But, if I observed an object going at the speed of light, due to the same equation you quoted, it would either approach or achieve an infinite amount of energy. This would create a black hole, whose radius would spread at the speed of light, due to the infinite mass. The Schwarzschild radius equation is more about how small something needs to be before electrodynamic forces and I guess the Pauli exclusion principle fails and we see a black hole form. The hypothetical idea here is that if you have an object with infinite energy, then, it would be infinite in size. BUt due to Goku or any other character not being infinite in size, the origin point of the black hole would be on him, and it would spread out, probably at the speed of light. Regarding your first tangent, Goku having anti matter matter explosion propulsion as a method of flying would be great lmao. But since when they fly, they dont blow up everything, I would make an assumption they push off of some invisible ether to get the propulsion they need. Perhaps something all ki is connected too, but thats just schizo head canon. Youre not wrong, but we had a good working of light during Newtons time, we just considering it as particles, I think. Electromagnetism was just the unification of forces between Electricity and Magnetism using Maxwells equations (Which is ironic, because most of the equations he didn't discover.) Anyway, regarding the schwarzschild radius equation, whilst I was studying physics at uni, it was just a funny little thought experiment I had, the laws of physics break down welllll before then.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo My first point wasn’t really a correction, but rather a point around notation convention, but I do get that using either convention leads to the same results within special relativity. What I was referring to with the second point is that the Schwarzschild radius equation is derived from inertial mass (rest mass). Most equations from general relativity use inertial/rest mass, which is why the concept of relative/observed mass within special relativity has been mostly discontinued as a concept. If the effects of special relativity would not apply to our universe, light wouldn’t exist. It’s less of a problem about our capacity to model light, but rather its capacity to exist. It wouldn’t matter if we still had equations for light, its existence is entirely dependant on the effects of special relativity.
The ability is called "Instant transmission" which implies that regardless of the distance traveled he is getting there instantaneously. I don't think he is traveling faster than the speed of light, I think he is being instantaneously transported to his desired destination much like you would see with a wormhole or something of that sort perhaps by bending the fabric of spacetime (which I know also requires a lot of energy) but goku IS a pretty energetic guy ngl, so that may put your physics question to rest.
It isn't just instant transmission, people are claiming kid goku along with all the other characters were ftl. They really did get ftl eventually but people look at every little thing and try to upscale characters
Bear in mind that powerscalers also traditionally disregard classical kinetic energy entirely aswell. And they do so *consciously.* Also the Law of Conservation of Energy because how else will they justify Attack Potency not corresponding to the levels of destruction that characters cause around (and I'm talking about fiction in general, not just Dragon Ball). So ye, even they admitedly selectively disregard physics in certwin aspects and yet they still want to use them for scaling. Sounds about right.
Because the story does that. Your idea is “The story is inconsistent with reality/is not perfectly consistent with reality, so not only am I uninterested in trying to understand things about it, I think people who are interested and come up with imperfect methods to do so are irrational and inferior”. And that’s dumb. Because you not caring about nerdy details doesn’t make you better than anyone 😂😂😂 All they do is assume that very imperfect physics apply to the story the way it would be demonstrated. If gravity is a part of the story, they’ll take gravity into account. If you can punch a rock apart, then a VERY imperfect variation of the laws of physics seems to apply to the story. They only use the rules of the story as presented or explained, you just don’t like it when people think critically. “It’s not that deep-“ fool, just say you can’t swim 😂😂😂
@@ShesBearynice Using real world physics and calculations just for some little bit of trivia and funzies is perfectly fine. The real problem comes when powerscalers take it too seriously and treat it as an objective "field of study". And believe me: There's A LOT of them.
I always try to explain why characters aren't light speed to people on YT but they just say, "I'm not reading that," or they don't get it, so thankfully now I just can copy and paste a link!
Still the diffrence is that It's fiction. Fictional worlds work diffrently. When you have a clear statement that says that character is equal/faster than light, then he is FTL no matter what. The fictional worlds work diffrently and real world rules doesn't apply. Borsalino from One Piece is confirmed to be able to kick at speed of light, yet the destructive power coming from his kicks is basically just small destruction. He also can move VIA light-dispersion and still nothing happends. Dragon Ball goes exactly same. You have universe sized realms outside the main universe, and characters can travel through them in a short time.
@@kfc-employee1380 Sorry that you had to type so much for nothing, but I guess I’ll explain it. Obviously they have out physics since every other example of physics is same to ours. And in the process of mangaka making the manga they even try to include explanations of how it works with real world science. These characters are not designed or meant to be powerscaled, let alone by people that have little knowledge of science. You have heard so much from powerscalers low-balling the speed of light that your basically brainwashed. One person said Asta is 15 billion times the speed of light… that’s simply unreasonable. At the speed of light, not even 15 billion times the speed of light it takes a fraction of a second to travel around the whole world, why do we still see characters travel if that’s the case. Your evidence needs to add up in all areas. When was Kizaru confirmed light speed btw, his devil fruit translates to glint-glint fruit, glint is referring to the brigantines of light, not necessarily light itself.
I have no interest in anime , i did not know this is about dragon ball z fans. as a new viewer, this is funny, and very cool to me love this video, please make more :D
If someone moves from one galaxy to the other in 3 second Ain't they already faster than light!? Would you call that individual slower than light?, Because the author doesn't follow the rules of reality when writing he's story doesn't mean common sense wouldn't give us the answer🤷
@@DesX42S you don't need to calculate anything to understand someone moving from one galaxy to the other is faster than light dummy😮💨 It's literally common sense/knowledge... Regardless of whether it's silly or not that's why it's called fiction, if you find it too silly go watch a reality show or drama.
Feats>Else because these fictional stories aren't written by physicists and the logic doesn't work out. So when Wally West goes so fast he moves across the universe instantly, the only explanation is speedforce because the author wasn't thinking about real world consistency. Hence, using maths or real world equations is idiotic and also impossible. Saying Roshi with power level 130 blew up the moon so current Goku releases x(ubertrevigintillion) Joules of energy at max power is idiotic asf. Also comparing across verses is even stupider because the rules change lol. In conclusion. Goku solos your favourite character.
You can't go "back in time" bc there's nothing to go back to. The universe doesn't have a recorded memory time is just a concept we experience gradually
I am aware. Using the maths, faster than light speeds would generate an "imagenary" component in the direction of travel, its like adding a y axis to an x axis. I guess it would be more accurate to say across timelines but into a backward era. Its probably how Bulmas time machine works.
Conclusion: Any character who can move faster than the speed of light can have infinite power and energy, creating an black hole expanding at the speed of light on the posititve axis of time until the end of time, and then the character itself going back in time right before the black hole
Far as I'm concerned, the first actual _"lightspeed"-fighting_ (not "ftl" yet) character in the entire franchise is Dyspo. The "Instantaneous Movement" technique is not exclusively meant for fighting, so I've personally never counted Goku as "ftl" before the very end of Super.
@@malikmcfarlane6060 The original DB explicitly states Popo (who remained the fastest character by the end of DB) is "faster than lightning". Lightning is not light; it's *_electricity_* (270,000 miles per hour). If you really knew how fast _light_ really is, then you'd know how much *slower* that end-of-original-DB feats are. By the way, that "Namek Saga" statement you speak of is only in the dub, and even then, only because characters' *_eyes_* couldn't keep up with him. And we all know how utterly _unreliable_ sight really is in this series when it comes down to ANYTHING faster than _sound._
At first I thought you were going to be just one of those people to say he din't reach lightspeed because it was never stated, but then started talking about physics and alreay knew the result, good video bro
Saying Goku is faster than light is just faster than saying Goku can go faster than 160,000 mps. There’s nothing wrong with applying this logic to all fictional verses unless contradicted. Also, light might just move faster in DB than it does in our world, simple.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 That's the problem, if a single law of physics is contradicted, ALL of the laws of physics are inherently contradicted. We, as humans, break down the nature of reality into various, bite-sized laws, but in actuality, physics is one, singular massive equivalence. Gravity is mass, mass is energy, energy is velocity, velocity is time, just in their own proportions. Every single equation in physics is interconnected, if you remove one, the entire model ceases to function on both a mathematical and philosophical level.
@@akalichamp7030 it’s not a problem though, laws of physics can be broken in fiction without breaking the others because it’s fiction. It doesn’t have to adhere to the rules of reality, obviously. That’s why this video is pointless because it completely misses the point.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 it's not even really about the laws of physics by that point, it's about logical inconsistency. I fully agree that it doesn't have to adhere to the laws of reality, as does the guy making this video. The problem is when someone says "this universe doesn't obey the laws of reality", and then uses physics equations from the real world to make measurements in that same fictitious universe. Even if you want to say it's just for shits and giggles, and isn't meant to be scientifically literate - That's fine (I don't get the point of bothering at all at that point though), just don't pretend there are any grounds for objectivity, without making EXTREME postulations and axiomatic leaps. The other problem is not really with power scaling itself, its with attempting to use physics in a way that demonstrates a poor understanding of it, as if laws exist separate from each other, and aren't just different expressions of a singular, monolithic, natural equivalence... To put it simply, if you subtract even one equation from a model, you're no longer dealing with physics, you're dealing with magic, which is about as baseless as it sounds. Which is fine, just don't pretend it's scientifically or philosophically reasonable, and be aware that the element of scientific objectivity is out the window (any conclusion you arrive at with it is inherently conjecture)
yeah it's hard to make arguments or anything on this when sometimes people just pull things out, Goku is simply FTL because he is fast enough to leap forward in time, and dodge light, simple stuff
@@TheHardenedOneyooooooo I love saitama but the way you talk gives mad red flags about your intelligence don't worry son I used to be just like you, you will grow.
So you can ignore the Space Monkeys who fly, shoot laser beams and are fighting against a xenocidal lizard real estate agent, the literal time travel and the rideable cloud, but them saying no to physics is too much to ignore?
All I got from this video was "Lorentz force GO!" AND IT WILL COME, LIKE A FLOOD OF RAIN, POURING DOWN ON ME, AND IT WILL NOT LET UP UNTIL THE END IS NEAR, UNTIL IT FINDS MY DREAMS HAVE DISAPPEARED!
Another idea that may emerge is fictional characters who appear to move faster than light are using x(whatever number) warp without realizing it. That would still have to be a huge number to go between galaxies fast enough for it to matter to a mortal. Should they introduce wormholes instead for every character that's supposed to travel so fast?
My man. I applaud your efforts but you're about to see some Olympic level mental gymnastics and high caliber head canon by the powerscalers to explain why actual physics is wrong.
@@enumaelish9193Yeah, because using the parts of reality that are the same or similar enough to our story that are also the same as those in other stories is a reasonable way to draw comparisons to things 🤓 Because it is. If you think saying a character from one hyper realistic boxing story vs another character from another equally realistic boxing story is a stupid conversation just because; The writer determines who would win (not the point of the conversation, we’re basing it on existing evidence in the texts, not what a writer would make happen), OR The stories aren’t real; Then you’re in no way shape or form equipped to criticize anyone’s reasoning ability, because it’s literally not intelligent in the slightest to argue that a discussion about a hypothetical with rules established by both interlocutors for the sake of fun, is dumb; just because none of it is real or because people can be assholes about it. 😂😂😂😂
@@ShesBearyniceAll that talk to try and sound smart. The reason people find powerscalers so obnoxious is that you people never agree on any "rules". It's the eternal game of "my guy beats your guy" "nuh uh my guy beats your guy" then you work backwards from there to try and justify why your fictional man beats the other fictional man. Your "rules" aren't rules because they change on a dime to suit your agenda. Then you ask to be taken seriously and take that nonsense everywhere. You guys and shippers are the vegans of any fiction community.
![Six Hundred Strike [EPIC: The Musical] Full Animatic](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zov6NXIAuow/mqdefault.jpg)
honestly i don't care about "power levels" or who can one shot whos whole bloodline i just want a good story man
then you're watching the wrong show
@@FazeRustyNuts ?
same.
@@FazeRustyNutsthere is a power scaler among us
Good power scaling/progression is in part what makes a good story. It’s just that Dragon Ball does a really bad job at it. The leaps in power become ridiculous, unearned and narratively unbelievable. I’m not saying a story can’t be good with unbelievable power ups but it can create dissonance in the reader/watcher and take them out of the story if their egregious enough. You know a universe has really good scaling when most of the power ups feel like they make sense, are narratively appropriate and you barely notice the inconsistencies.
When it comes to power scaling I think doing physics calculations or trying to compare characters from different universe is fundamentally flawed and not worth wasting your time on. Keeping track of the established rules of the universe and the ever changing hierarchies between characters is what matters. In Dragon balls case, it’s power system, Ki, is barely explained or expanded upon so it seems like characters can do pretty much anything with it. There’s no power cap or established top tier that isn’t immediately surpassed in the last arc like it’s nothing. (That starts to change sort of with Beerus and Whiz in Super but by then most of damage is already done in my opinion.) Characters get exponentially higher power levels with less and less time training or sometimes no training at all, so it feels like characters power will artificially increase as much as the plot demands. Which is true for every story but the writer should try to keep the illusion that the events of the plot could actually happen if their universe existed.
Goku, Vegeta and others are also so strong now that further increases in power feel meaningless to an extent. They are capable of destroying universes so we can never get a visual display of how truly powerful they are again, like when you used to see Frieza and Vegeta casually destroying planets. Dragon ball convinced me that there is such a thing as making your characters too strong and I feel planet or galaxy level should have been the power cap. Beyond that it’s difficult to even imagine how powerful a character truly is because the scale is just so ridiculously huge. The only character from another series I can think of that is stronger than Goku is Superman, considering his best feats from the comics. I mean he lifted a book with infinite pages and hence infinite mass. It makes little sense but he still did it. Because he’s so powerful his most compelling stories are the ones where how powerful Superman is barely plays a factor. Instead their about challenging Superman’s morals and finding a way to do with what’s right without relying solely on his power. That’s why Lex Lurther is an iconic villain to so many people but stories like Darkseid killing Superman ring hollow in the long run. Especially since heroes never actually die in D.C. or marvel.
Dragon Ball is a story about constantly surpassing your limits and improving as a warrior but there are more interesting ways to make a character stronger than to increase some number. Once Goku and Vegeta had begun to reach their limits in raw strength, speed and power we could see them try to improve as martial artists, learn new Ki abilities and come up with more creative ways to fight. Or the story could of simply ended far sooner to avoid Toyriyama writing himself into a corner.
Ayo my boi making his parents proud putting that physics degree to good use
On god
Frfr
Haha wish I had a physics degree.
@@faith4657luckily u can learn most of this online or on yt like i did
Bro getting a physics degree may not always equal to a good scientist. But some people with none may be egen better
No one seems to have understood the purpose of this video. It's to show the "Power Scalling" community one of its biggest failures when it comes to applying REALISTIC PHYSICS in FANTASY worlds. There are people who go further and measure the pixels of manga frames for physique measurements, this is ridiculous. The truth is that NO author cares about respecting the laws of physics (in fiction), and if at some point they exist, they are to be BROKEN without corresponding to the effects they would cause if something like that were real. This video is a demonstration of this, it exposes the pretentiousness of those who use real-world physics to cast characters that are not real. If physics were respected 100% by the works, any characters' feats would be uncontrollably disastrous. "But Goku's Ki can protect the world around him from the impact of his actions" So why didn't he just turn off this barrier in the fight against Frieza on Namekuzei when there was no longer any life left to be affected on the planet? The point is, that it is stupid to apply real physics in worlds where the only 3 laws that apply are: "Author's Will", "Audience Hype" and "Editors' Direction" which will dictate what is "logical" of happen within a work of fiction, and NONE OF THEM ARE EXPERTS IN PHYSICS.
For those mature people who still continue to get into endless online arguments about which character wins which. If you care about "realism", they would all be a draw, no company that agreed to carry out this crossover would let their "mascots" be humiliated. So everyone would always be on the same level, or they would be together fighting against another big threat bigger than them. What you should remember is that it doesn't matter whether or not Goku solos X or Z. In a story what matters is its plot, and there are many anime and manga that do this many times better than Dragon Ball, which even in of its simple narrative has a great depth of narrative and moral details in its characters, but all of this is overshadowed by Fandom, which ruins the reputation of its own favorite character by constructing it as "That personalityless monster whose only feat is the of being able to solo any universe that is neither part of nor exists or matters" Many people won't even try to approach Dragonball, Naruto or other worlds of ficction because of this stupid and childish toxicity on the internet.
The one who dictates the rules of a story is its author. In a crossover, it is the publishers, who will not give victory to ONE character even if it is the obvious one that should, and the fans will NEVER accept seeing their favorite lose EVEN IF IT IS OBVIOUS THAT IT SHOULD.
"Power Scalling" WILL ALWAYS BE AND ONLY WILL BE IN THE FANDOM HEADCANNON.
But can it solo Goku, tho? :)
Absolutely spot on and correct.
Your comment regarding the analysis of manga panels is part of the reason why this video spawned.
Power scaling can only be reasonanbly done in the same fictional verse where you can assume the laws of physics are the same.
Theres no logical basis to assume the same physics cross verses, so I can make the argument that a punch in x verse is hyperversal in y verse due to the mechanics of x verse being set up that way, and since theres no way to actually disprove that, because its fiction, it can be a valid claim. A dumb one, but equally as valid as analysing manga pixels to get speed feats.
SPOT FREAKING ON MAN.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo Goku is faster than light tho, fictional verses dont inherently have to use real life physics
the only reason why i dont understand the purpose of the video is bc i dont understand the video at all
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo Even outside of physics and example I like to use is that Superman's invulnerability doesn't usually apply to magic so would nen from HxH or Cursed Energy from Jujutsu Kaisen be able to hurt Superman? The point I'm trying to make here is that at some point how different universes or stories work becomes so different that trying to ask "who would win?" or "what would happen" requires a lot of assumptions or subjectivity unless you have a word of god from an author. At this point who knows if Cursed Energy would count as magic outside their universe or if it is a magical phenomena that people in universe just call Cursed Energy. We don't have an answer to if nen and or cursed energy would count as magic because those stories and worlds weren't made with the existence of Superman, the DC universe, and how they work in mind. A distinction between magic and something else in a story might be arbitrary if you start applying it to the context of other stories.
I mean sure maybe you could argue that things like this aren't magic because the characters don't literally call it magic but in some cases that's making a lot of assumptions. Sometimes a universe might not see something as magic due to their point of reference or what they are comparing to. Then you also have to consider the fact that in JJK people who used cursed energy are literally refered to as sorcerers / shamans. So are we to assume its not magic because nobody seems to explicitly call it magic or that it is magic because the people using it are sorcerers/shamans. I'm not going to make an entire essay but my core point is that even if these examples are wrong or bad you are eventually going to reach a story where how it works is so different to another story that which one wins comes down to how you choose to interpret the powers and systems from different stories interacting with each other as opposed to purely objective measurements. But that's just me.
So what you're saying is Goku can solo physics itself.
No tho opposite 💀
Only real world physics
more like physics bullies your life
@@kiratwo4upsychics stole my lunch money
Dammit we gave them more fuel
The problem is with *powerscalers* not *powerscaling* as a concept. The real issue is powerwcalers not taking the lore of the fictional world into account when trying to wank character scaling for the sake of vs battles debates.
Yup. Pretty much it. I utterly *hate* the absolute dissonance that exists between the narrative and the conclusions some powerscalers make and then assume it to be 110% canon. Some of their calcs might make some amount of sense, but for the most part they create enormous contradictions that if taken too literally make it so that the entire story cannot possibly work at all.
By the way, can you beat Goku?
@@mekingtiger9095 According to power scaling we can demolish every fictional realm for some bizarre reason.
I can beat goku by drawing him and erasing him, proving that I am universal+
@@mekingtiger9095 The point of scaling a character the right way is taking into consideration the actual story and rules of the verse itself, the way to power scale that you mentioned is called rat scaling/ratting where it's basically just a bunch of cherry picking to get the character that high.
As the person above me already stated there are different part of the powerscaling community.
Some do what you say and in more recent times it feels like it has sadly become the predominant form of it/the one that people are primarily aware of as they are the most vocal whereas more level headed debates tend to happen somewhere in some forum and are kept there.
There are a lot of characters who are faster than light because light is a really fast thing so authors think it would be cool to make the characters faster than it. In One Piece there is a character who can turn into light and people can fight him and outspeed him. Yet the same characters are scared to touch magma because in the head of the writer “magma is pretty hot so that’s threatening”. All writers powerscale just by what sounds cool and threatening.
Or you have a Speedster problem. A character is so fast and so capable. Yet they can't even do much against a human level threat.
I call it poor writing that a powerful character with a good guy personality, cannot even beat a few human level criminals who are not doing the Trolly Problem.
Kizaru? I don't think he's ever been outsped while he's light
@@1001011011010Rayleigh faught on equal speed and said he is slow and old so Prime Rayleigh, Law can teleport if you count that, Luffy dodged light in base 800 chapters ago and even though he faught roughly evenly with Kizaru recently that lines up better with Kizaru being faster than light, and Shanks showed up to Marineford without anyone noticing so at least Shanks because he seemed to outspeed Ben Beckman later. There a lot of maybes like Prime Whitebeard and Roger, Oden, Kaido (seeing as he had no fear of admirals), Imu, Rocks but not enough evidence for me to fully put them on here
@@nerdcorner2680
Oh brother you're doing the very thing that powerscalers try to do...
Listen, you don't have to be faster than light to dodge a light beam. You can just dodge where it's going to be. Like if a regular human dodges a bullet, he doesn't actually have to be faster than a speeding bullet. He "just (in scarequotes since that is still a very tall order, but a LOT easier than actually being faster than a speeding bullet)" has to avoid its trajectory. And they also have haki in OP which enables increased observation, even into the future, especially for straightforward attacks like the trajectory of a light beam.
Kizaru isn't always light speed. They make a big show of when he transforms to light and travels lightspeed or extremely close to light speed. He was in his human form fighting Rayleigh.
@@1001011011010 Keep in mind this is fiction. Characters can easily be faster than light because you just write it to be so. Superman shooting lasers from his eyes because he is an alien makes no sense with biology but we accept it because the story laid it out and keeps it consistant. And I get that one piece is saying characters move via prediction, but Kaido still blitzed Luffy (to the point where he couldn’t even move to dodge) even while using an advanced version of it that lets you see seconds into the future because he was too slow, yet light wasn’t too fast for him. It is much less of a leap in logic for One Piece that Kizaru can move faster than light (his devil fruit plus his own speed or just mastery of his devil fruit) due to lightning constantly being dodged easily and the previous scaling I said earlier, than it is to say that everyone is really slow and
At first I thought you didn't realize that fiction doesn't adhere to reality, but then I realized while watching that you do understand that, and are instead calling BS on people cherry picking when to apply real world physics to characters to try to argue who is stronger. While I do agree to an extent, I also think for at least some people, it's done in good fun, but I do agree some take it way too seriously and lose sight of the fact that a lot of what people do is make assumptions about how 2 different characters in 2 different verses would interact with one another. This is especially true when dealing with supernatural characters since at that point we don't even have real world physics to try to cherry pick from. Good video.
Dragon Ball power-scaling is just nonsense in general: even if we assume Goku can break the light-speed limit (physics goes out the window as explained in the video), why does the tournament of power last like an hour, instead of a few femtoseconds? With the speeds claimed by powerscalers, and the ridiculous variations in power (characters getting billions of times stronger in an hour, for some reason), no fight should ever last more than a microsecond, and no planet said fights take place on should still be a planet after the fight. Pretty much every character is at the very least thousands of times more/less powerful than their opponent, so no fight should be close (most should end in one hit).
Maybe because goku isnt always moving at MFTL speeds?, especially in a tournament where you need to use your energy wisely?
@@Alphaj0r Reserving energy in a fight to the death with unknown opponents is beyond silly, especially if we're talking about using less than a trillionth of a percent...
It's even worse than that. If you actually read the manga, it becomes abundantly clear that Goku and gang can NOT move at the speed of light.
- Nappa can't react to the Nimbus which, according to Vegeta, took over "four minutes" to fly from Korin's tower to the battlefield. [Chapter 222]
- Krillin takes a few hours to go from the Grand Elder's place and bring Gohan back. One trip is 30 days of walking according to Dende. [Chapters 260 and 265]
- Vegeta considers traversing 20,000km in the 1-2 second gap that Goku was gone for to be far beyond the capacity of super-speed. [Chapter 336]
- 16 says it would take the androids a couple of minutes if they flew to Goku's house. [Chapter 357]
- Krillin said he'd have to go "all-out" to outspeed Bulma's plane, which took 20-30 minutes to fly from Capsule Corp to Kame House. [Chapter 369]
- Trunks takes so much time to fly from the lookout and grab the Dragon Radar that Buu can destroy an entire city in that timeframe, with regular humans running around in panic and reacting to the events that transpire in real time. This also includes Buu changing his appearance to try and get a woman to kiss him, and Goku explaining to Piccolo the strain that SSJ3 puts on his body. [Chapters 473 and 476]
- Gotenks takes nearly a minute to fly over to Buu's house. [Chapter 482]
- Vegeta needs 5 seconds to fly from Capsule Corp to Satan City. [DBS chapter 42]
Cinematic timing to be doing that
@@2balls4me Ya, now turn to piccolo ki blasting the moon in mere seconds (they're easy to dodge for dbz characters).
Also, these are very old. There's new feats that includes galaxy distance traveling, (jiren, bills, whis and the new villain who absorbs powers, which name i don't remember), it's obviously cannon that they're faster than light.
Excellent video. You encapsulate perfectly why I can’t take physics calculations and pixel scaling in power scaling serious and that’s coming from a physics major. It’s all about how powerful characters are relative to others in their respective universes at the end of the day.
How can we compare characters across different universes when we don’t even know how their different rules and possibly physics would interact with each other? The answer is you can’t and serious power scaling can only be relegated to comparing characters of the same universe using the rules and feats established by the author. It can be fun to use physics to see if things would be possible in fictional universes, such as could a rubber person like Luffy survive Enel’s lightning for example. And it can be fun to discuss with your friends could Satima beat Goku or something. But none of these things should actually be taken seriously at the end of the day because there is no real answer to these questions. Serious power scaling will always be ambiguous too (because it’s all made up by the author at the end of the day) but not completely because you can discuss what would be logically consistent based on what the author has shown us so far.
I don't care much for Powerscaling but the only type of VS matchups I like are matches between characters in the same universe around the same power that have never actually fought or met each other in universe.
It depends tbh, I am honestly very curious how the Ajin and Demon Slayer universe would interact with the Zerg, for example, or the Zerg invading the God of War universe as another example.
Will the vampires adapt to fight Zerg? How will the Ajin operate? How will the zerg use the physical bodies of the Ajin? How will the Zerg face off against the immortal Baldur? How long will they fight? What will be the eventual outcome? These are very interesting what if scenarios IMO
@@see0707 It may be interesting but there’s no answer unless both authors were to come together and agree on how this would work.
@@jacobharris5894 well yeah but sometimes you can't do that hence people have to work with what they have
Tho sometimes I agree people wank stuff too much
“Power scaling shouldn’t be taken seriously”
No shit Sherlock. 😂😂😂
if you exceeded the speed of light while moving in a straight line, barring the obvious issue outlined in this video on infinite energy being a requirement to even reach c, the time fuckery would ensure you never do...
assume you're travelling at the speed of light, you won't experience any passage of time, however the moment you are faster than light, time goes backwards, meaning that your forward movement in space actually happens backwards in time, you just reversed your own arrow of time by exceeding c. from an observer's perspective, what they'll see is another you, your future self, moving towards you while pointing thier ship in the same direction, cause they're traveling back in time relative to you. this means that attempting to exceed the speed of light puts your speed of light self on a one way collision course with your future self from one planck time in the future.
or in other words, tl;dr: if you run around a tree faster than the speed of light you will fuck your future self in the ass
Moral of the Story: don't you dare use real laws of physics to debate drawings 👍
Why? Because it makes you annoyed? I’mma do it twice as hard now because it makes you so irritated that you have an opinion 😂😂😂
@@ShesBearynice yeah boi, bounce that gyat harder for the rizzler 🥵
common sense
@@ShesBearyniceoh no Mr. Tough guy is gonna use real laws of physics to debate drawings 😥😰😨😱‼️‼️‼️
@@ShesBearyniceyou have fun with that
This really highlights my main gripe with powerscaling and using math for VS debates over the years.
It's crazy to think that a decade ago, it was agreed that a character being able to blow up a solar system was impressive, only for people to then ''discover'' that a lot of characters could actually blow up universes...somehow.
And now you're in a situation where every single character is suddenly faster than light and galactic level regardless of how much sense that makes in practice.
This is what made me just stop caring about power scaling all together and at the very least taught me it's just better to not take it that seriously.
Honestly, I think the best way to approach ''serious'' power scaling...is to just use plain old common sense and ask yourself if the author really intended their character to be as strong as the calcs suggest.
You can really avoid a lot of headaches and fallacies by just asking yourself ''Did Nintendo really intend to establish Mario as a character that can destroy a universe or am I just making up BS?'', because most of the time the most simple answer is usually the correct one. (And yes, the example is from experience since I consider it one of the most eggregious cases of BS power scaling I've ever seen)
Because of the nature of fiction, applying real math to it is going to be inherently flawed because it will never be portrayed realistically, you could take a character from a series that has no superpowers at all and still BS big numbers out of it by taking a scene where the character is animated with a lot of exaggerated speedlines as they deliver a punch exaggerated for the sake of a joke and then apply real physics to it, even when as far as the author is concerned, the character is just an average person.
TL;DR: Common sense and context is just better than convoluted math.
If these geniuses can actually calculate things they math up, they’ll all be top physics professors by now
Ppl do calcs of the feat that was done by characters.
Let say you can react to sound, you basically have sound barrier perception speed.
Let say you can react to real lightning, you are basically the same tier as lightning.
Let say you can react to light beams, you are basically near light speed.
Let say you travelled to Jupiter from Earth in seconds.
You are basically faster than light itself.
Because Sun light, takes near 8 minutes to reach Earth.
And these characters took seconds to travelled to Jupiter from Earth.
See the difference.
Let say a character moved in stop time, and their timeline time is also stopped.
It means you are beyond speed itself, so real ppl makes words for that definition.
@@tsumikiayato1560these people do these things for fun.
Some do take it serious, but doing these things won't affect them directly on the world society.
Since they are literally doing it for fun, posting it on the internet.
So obviously they wouldn't get the chance to get real work that is related to physics. 💀🤦🏽♂️
Pls stop trying to be smart, by twisting your words.
@@tsumikiayato1560by your logic.
Ppl that cook for fun in their life, they would be high tier chefs around the Earth by now.
@@chiaki.hayakawa18lmao mental gymnastics. No, people do not do calcs based on what the character did, they do calcs based on what they THINK the character did.
Dodging something does not mean you are fastest than that object, it just means you moved out of the way before it reached its destination. Why do I need to explain that to you?
POV: toriyama agreeing that goku should gets his cheeks absolutely folded by gear 5 luffy because it would be funny and the fans would get angry
Wait is that true
@tickler1200
...no
...its a joke
the big three mangakas, along with toriyama, touching glasses and laughing and mocking the powerscaling masses
@Yoyiiii you can't share glasses when you're in heaven
@@GOJOSENSEIAKAGLAZINGKING proof or fake
It always weird when people try to use real world physics on superpowered fictional characters, in fictional worlds with different laws of physics, to prove something.
I get they are having fun pinning characters against each other but it doesn’t work when they try to prove their point using real world physics in this case. I usually hate those arguments, they never end. Everyone is trying to defend their favorite character so they keep finding ways to do that.
I think the problem is that people don’t understand that applying real world physics to fiction is not power scaling. You guys have a misconception on powerscaling, when you power scale you only use the information presented by the narrative of the story. There is no room for applying real life logic and physics to the fiction, this is not something that power scalers do.
I mean you take feats, but it can also be fun to equalize the characters and see how they stack up.
One I like is Kirby versus Kid Buu. As Kirby is a pretty solid counter due to being a pure of heart character while Kid Buu is pure evil. I don't think Kirby can beat everyone, but it is fun seeing how they stack up.
As long as you are fine with your character losing, it isn't an issue.
@@deuslouis7030it’s not just that. There was another video that said, “powerscaling doesn’t make much sense because imagine if black frieza showed up in Naruto’s universe, Naruto wouldn’t lose he would find a way to beat the villain. Does that make him stronger than him?” Or something along those lines, but I kinda agree with that. Like it’s just what moves that story forward or who the writers want to win it doesn’t have to make sense. The characters are not fixed at a certain power, which is kind of annoying honestly. One time he can do something other times he can’t for some reason
@@aceaj2620 None of that makes any sense, not from a power scaling stand point or from a writing stand point. Writers HAVE to make their stories make sense at least in the context of the story. Sure if Freiza showed up and they wanted Naruto to win, they get him to that point but they would go about it in a way that makes the win make sense. In stories like these, they typically do stuff like give the protagonist a power-up that allows them to defeat their opponent like how goku got a power up in the broly movie that gave him the ability to defeat broly. Or maybe they’ll go for the sealing route where they’ll come up with a plan that allows them to seal Freiza away. There are multiples ways it can make sense but the thing is, is that it HAS to make sense. I don’t know why you think it doesn’t, stories especially in fiction are judged by their world and how effectively they can convey their ideas. Part of that idea is the world that the characters live in, most of it has to be explained or at the very least make sense to the audience. This is very well known idea in the world of writing fiction, multiples authors have commented on this concept. You can even search up multiple quotes for proof, here’s a few;
“The trouble with writing fiction is that it has to make sense, whereas real life doesn’t.”
- Iain Banks.
“The difference between life and the movies is that a script has to make sense, and life doesn't.”
- Joseph L. Mankiewicz
“The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.”
- Tom Clancy
I think this illustrates my point pretty well, also you are kinda right that a character isn’t fixed at a certain power. But that is entirely dependent on the character, characters like Yamcha are very likely to get weaker or time same thing with beginning of super krillin, but characters like Freiza are only going to get stronger.
@@deuslouis7030gimme tldr
I'm a dragon ball fan and have watched some of these power scaling videos. I can dip into the logical fallacy that a character is FTL, but when someone tries to mathematically calculate the characters power, while simultaneously claiming they are FTL, it breaks my brain a bit. they are just using mathematics selectively because mass going FTL = infinite energy/power.
@@scorchercast8366 makes for better storytelling of they keep things surface level. Our brains precieve sound and light as being the same speed, unless there is a very large distance between us and the thing we observe. We just tell ourselves that our brains are wrong and its different in reality.
"it's fiction, don't expect realism"
They said while using real world logic to power scale.
@@scorchercast8366 There are actually such things as larger infinities - for instance there are an infinite number of odd numbers, but there are twice as many numbers as there are odd numbers alone, so that's an infinite that's twice as big.
But yeah whoever said that about Goku is pretty obviously stupid as all hell.
Didn’t Goku fly across Cosmic Distances that would require, Y’know, Faster-Than-Light Speed?
@@ironclad-m3qbut powerscalers are not using real world logic to power scale. That’s what you guys aren’t getting.
It's cool and all but it's impressive that chichi endured that monkey
She endured the nuclear thrust.
lightspeed backthrusts
That's assuming she didn't, yk, do it without Goku's exact knowledge
2 primate going at it but its still beastality
How does Lois Lane, Chi And Bulma Withstand those Backshots I need to know bro!!
Power scalers watching this video:
"......So you're saying Goku's destructive potential is Universal+ then?"
damn
Jokes asides... Manga Goku is actually High Complex Multiversal given everything the Manga has stated.
So instead of using IRL Math. I'm just pointing at the source material.
Compared to Zeno Goku (a variant of Base Form Goku) who far exceeds High Complex Multiversal and is 8th Dimensional, given the source material. (9th Dimensional is Pseudo/True Omnipotence as properly shown with Over Void/Over Monitor in DC Comics.)
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 more dimensions doesn't yield higher power, lol. Goku barely has the evidence to prove he has aleph null power and nothing more.Take it or leave it.
@@uboa8060
Manga Goku shaked the cosmology of his Universe during the Gods of Destruction Arc.
Zeno Goku defeated characters near the 7th and the 8th dimension of Existence... High End Conceptual/Personifications who transcend the dimensionality of the cosmologies. Among other similar levels of powers / meta narratives.
Zeno Goku is cracked compared to Manga Goku.
Manga Goku is High Complex Multiversal at best, on par with Rebirth Superman in the current chapters.
(But again... Zeno Goku is a variant of Base Form Goku. It's just a comparison to the gap in power when measured with Manga Goku, who has done more than to Anime Goku.)
Oh... And more dimensions does yield higher power. Where do you think omnipotence exists at? It's in the 9th Dimension and both Zeno & Shenron covet that level of existence.
@@uboa8060 that sounds incorrect af
This video was spawned because the equation for kinetic energy E = 1/2 mv^2 should never be used to scale relativistic speeds. Ever.
Also, the real world implications for anything, even with someone like 0.000000001kg of mass travelling at light speed, are waaaay more catastrophic than what comics and manga would lead you to believe.
Pretty sure kinetic energy is very often disregarded by the power scaling community for this exact reason. Or at least by Vs. Battle Wiki.
Still, setting Relativistic Physics aside, even with basic Newtonian Physics most of the feats shown by characters in fiction would already be catastrophic aswell.
@@mekingtiger9095 Oh 100%, but the reason I wanted to bring in relativistic kinetic energy is because FTL feats are so common place in comics and manga and they dont even cause a sonic boom half the time, when really, if we used our physics, they'd blow up the universe or at the very least cause a black hole to form.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo I feel like that’s overshooting it, but we already know what happens with the Relativistic Baseball. They’d obliterate the entire planet.
I am pretty sure Goku is Faster-Than-Light, doesn’t he fly across Cosmic Distances that would be impossible to cross without it?
@@Spino-hx2mr It could also be bending space, or translating across it without actual momentum, which are both much more plausible to consider than just being faster than the fastest mass can get.
@@FarremShamist I haven't really watched Dragon Ball, but it doesn't seem like they usually bend Spacetime in the lesser forms, it'd be super cracked if they did. I think one Excerpt states an Aura can do that, but its done to counter a Timestop.
Beside, who's to say it operates like our Modern Day version of Physics? Sure, you can assume most exist, but there's nothing stating that the Speed of Light is the maximum anything in the Universe can go.
Goku solos 🗣🗣🔥🔥
Nah but fr fam this was actually pretty entertaining and informative. W video
Goku solos you 🫠
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo 😳😳
@@Big_Dawg_DojoHol up
The powerscalers will always find a way to say X character is lightspeed
because they want their character to be so great, another reason why they be having their lotion and tissue at the ready
@@XxSpirothKurotamaMOONLIGHTxXthis💀
Except when it comes to JoJos for some weird reason, they always tryna nerf the stands despite the author himself saying some of them are FTL
That moment they see a character throw off the aim of the laser gun by dipping and dodging
"LIGHT SPEED ++ REACTIONS"
@@FarremShamist lol I must be massively faster than light because I can dodge shots in laser tag💀
My brain is gonna hate me if i keep clicking on these powerscalling videos ong
Saying goku can’t be faster than light because nothing can be faster than light is a appeal to reality fallacy
No it’s not, and either way in SSJG wasn’t he getting blitzed by Dyspo who’s only LS and even before was speed of sound?
If you're saying Goku is X strong because insert mathematical or physics calculations as an argument, then pointing out how his feat doesn't make sense within scientific framework those calculations are took from isn't appealing to anything, it's just pointing out a huge logical hole.
Or the rules of a fictional universe are different from real world physics
Thx for saving my 9mins
Oh, if that's the case, then nothing matters anyway ..how do you even know how strong or weak anything is?? Scaling of fiction is a stupid thing ppl do.... no matter how you look at it.
@@Enoynanonebigger numbers makes them happy. That's the reason they waste time for this
I feel like that makes it even worse, why use real world names but completely ignore their concept in real life?
@@breckhhh that literally makes no sense , again it’s a story it’s to fit the narrative of a fictional world where cosmic beings and aliens fight come on now
Never thought I would see the day that someone would use his physics degree to try to debunk fiction
Thank you for making this. I always get annoyed when power scalers use elementary school math to explain how someone is going 100x the speed of light.
In theory if Goku farts whilst moving at light speed everything just fucking dies but mangakas don’t care about logic they just want their characters to be super duper strong
He never farted while moving light speed
@@FazeRustyNuts it was exaggeration but based on dragon ball’s powerscaling he probably could
Already proved mangakas prefer power over writting.
Look At anos, the most edgy and trashy anime character in history
wait boruto exists
@@FazeRustyNutsif he bled whilst moving at light speed, if he lost a single cell whilst moving light speed he could do so much damage. People are failing to comprehend just how much force anything moving at light speed would have
This is a pretty good video. While I dont fully agree, there is a good point about how the vs debates communities(and especially self declared power scallers) have a massive double standard about physics and math, only using it when it gives them the highest possible numbers and power levels.
But this goes to everything really. Feats, author statements, environmental effects, in-universe statements, in-universe myths, etc.
I will now write a manga where characters move at the speed of light with real world physics.
Imagine that being an ending arc to it, where they realize just what they did, and now this character has to spend the rest of their life or eternity in what remains of the universe they annihilated.
Same explained of why superman doesnt break huge stuff he carries, akin he has a telekinetic aura. But well, its just a way to iffily explain unrealistic stuff with physics term so it looks real. It helps with immersion, but initial inputs became so absurd, that it leads characters becoming literal gods with their own mythologies due to how broken these initial powers are for realistic physics. It helps wow effect, but its sad they have to explain fun stories to degree its mandatory. Some stories are not meant to be scifi, but eventually get dragged into it. No one cared about moon being destroyed by Roshi in original dragonball, but somewhere else its a monstrous feat with huge impact on Earth, like movie moonfall. Fantasy worlds initially have whole different physics and by dragging them to realistic rules just to compare blows them up to absurd numbers. And characters with accurate physics will lose just because other side didnt gave crap about it and fans blew it into godhood levels. Like when Saitama and Popeye were compared in Death Battle. Toonforce is not a real force unless its explicitly a character breaking laws of its universe like Discord from MLP. Just because some characters never shown any weaknesses does not mean they will be invulnerable in other universes with their laws. They would not fit anyway, its like pulling Bugs Bunny into terminator movie. Goku cannot be compared to likes of, for example, Saitama. Feats do not work same way, nor do multipliers and numbers. Goku in his childhood had like 10 power level at start. barely twice as strong as farmer, but tanked a bullet. Its fun for story, but when you wanna go boring mode and dig that into realism, it just falls apart. Same with lightspeed, same with superman pin holding huge buildings with power of mind.... More fandoms get into realism from unrealistic setting and more bullshit they gather to explain said powers, it basically just ends up with universe destroying because characters are gods, and if Popeye tilted earth by punching up his enemy and earth comedically tilted, it means popeye punched with planet busting punch, ignoring fact his enemy didnt flied into stars and fell back. What he is, made of neutron star to be that heavy? Its just comedy and epic moments made for effectiveness, not to be real. Interstellar was realistic, and even it had its own fantasy stuff.
comparing characters from different universes is dumb, yet alone explaining it with real life physics and "yottatons of tnt"
Yeah i hate explanation part of Death Battle, im just up for animation.
„Yeah i hate explanation part of Death Battle, im just up for animation. ”
Me too.
I think powerscaling is a fun concept. But i really hate the "FTL" stuff, like somehow every character past Haku in Naruto now is FTL because of mirrors, and every Bleach Character above a Lieutenant level is FTL because Menos grande caja negaccion, It doesn't even make sense for most situations in the story for 80% of the characters in all stories nowadays to be FTL.
So yeah, it really doesn't make any sense period based on physics as per your entire video. But also just for the story to work we can't assume any slightly powerful character inside a story is at light speed because he interacted with the only real speedster in their universe once.
Anyway great video, minus the jumpscare, i actually disliked that a lot.
That's why I love jjk they stick to hypersonic only
Same thing with Jojo, they somehow forget that the WHOLE FUCKING POINT of the mirror guy fight in part 3 was that Jotaro COULDN'T see the guy moving between reflections, so they had to force him to go a certain way and stick their stuff in the way of said movement.
So then you have these (at the current time) physically strongest stands going from punching buildings and turning them into FtL gods.
Hell even facing against Made In Heaven, a stand that OUTSPEEDS Jotaro, this doesn't make them go "hey maybe we messed up," they go "Made In Heaven is BEYOND light speed" or some other bs.
Yeah... I like for example in Fire Force, (At least the part i watched i don't know how things evolve after that) where the main character can move at speed of light, but like just in a straight line and he can't do much else... (I mean, don't know if now he has somehow mastered that and become Light speed effortlessly)
@@thunderspark1536
Same, the concept of FTL is very annoying to me ever since i seen jojo
@@bharatcosmos7743yea jjk goes for abilities instead of strength and speed, which makes physically strong characters have more impact when they do appear
The one power scale I can't stand is that "Piccolo has attacks beyond light speed because he shot at the moon, and it reached it almost immediately."
....well they are maybe right,but that Is mostly because the author don't care and use the Logic of gag manga in a fighting One.....in short they don't realize that the series isn't that Deep,but that Is Dragonball fan being Dragonball fan
@@xrosso6515”it’s not that deep” os usually “stop thinking critically, it intimidates me”. 😂
@@ShesBearynice if the author didn't, how the fuck are you supposed to?
the problem is that before using our science and physics to scale, you gotta prove that it applies
for example in certain verses, some laws of physics dont exist and we have to take that in count while scaling
thats what we call cosmology
cosmology can explain why certain characters can move at the speed of light
we could also say that goku uses his ki which allows him to bypass the laws of physics, thats another argument too
so yes being ftl is possible
also, when a character moves at the speed of light, it doesn't necessarily mean they travel an infinite distance with that speed
for example, haku (in naruto) can move faster than light but for a very short distance, between his mirrors
Too much words, me dumb, could you translate to english pls?
@@marioagiota he is saying something like "Ki can break down physics"
There is one issue:
Ki is probably safe to assume is "energy" or some sort of condensed light.
also according to the guy who posted the comment "goku can fly because ki breaks the laws of physics".
That's cap, you can argue, almost certainly, that the characters in dragon ball use ki to oppose their own weight and apply more to accelerate in a given direction.
Extra info below:
Also: it is said that goku couldn't survive in space against frieza in namek, and frieza could, here is why:
boiling point is related to pressure. low pressure = really low boiling point.
For humans (or saiyans, get real) it is around 30-40 °C. which is below the boiling point of water in space.
Frieza although not stated directly but we can assume his blood is cold, (I mean his race is literally called Cold Demons or something like that, and all of frieza's race are named after something cold, example: frieza (freezer, literally.), king cold (self explanatory), cooler (lol). You get the point).
1. That’s just special pleading
2. You missed the point of the video, which is about what I would expect from someone into “power scaling.”
3. You are still wrong based on the internal logic of the series. People calculate DBZ characters to be faster than light from the beginning of the series, but the androids (who are massively stronger than everything beforehand) can’t sense ki (this is not arguable, it’s part of the plot), therefore the only way for the androids to fight is by sight. Sight works by light. If someone is faster than light, it is by definition impossible to see them. You can try to cope that this just means they aren’t faster than light until afterwards, but then you’ve broken your own system of “scaling” by admitting it’s wrong.
@@sigiligus "1. That’s just special pleading
2. You missed the point of the video, which is about what I would expect from someone into “power scaling.”"
explain, making random claims isn't gonna do much
"People calculate DBZ characters to be faster than light from the beginning of the series, but the androids (who are massively stronger than everything beforehand) can’t sense ki (this is not arguable, it’s part of the plot), therefore the only way for the androids to fight is by sight. Sight works by light. If someone is faster than light, it is by definition impossible to see them."
and what did i say ? they use ki to break the laws of physics, therefore, using ki to enhance the vision is totally possible so whats your argument ? you missed the point of my comment
"You can try to cope that this just means they aren’t faster than light until afterwards, but then you’ve broken your own system of “scaling” by admitting it’s wrong."
no you simply misred my comment and missed the point
@@user-zl1vf4me1p "Ki is probably safe to assume is "energy" or some sort of condensed light.
also according to the guy who posted the comment "goku can fly because ki breaks the laws of physics".
That's cap, you can argue, almost certainly, that the characters in dragon ball use ki to oppose their own weight and apply more to accelerate in a given direction."
you have no proof of that tho, you're just assuming everything
ki isn't some sort of condensed light, it's spiritual energy which im pretty sure defies all laws of physics as physics don't take in count spiritual energy
"it is said that goku couldn't survive in space against frieza in namek, and frieza could, here is why:
boiling point is related to pressure. low pressure = really low boiling point.
For humans (or saiyans, get real) it is around 30-40 °C. which is below the boiling point of water in space.
Frieza although not stated directly but we can assume his blood is cold, (I mean his race is literally called Cold Demons or something like that, and all of frieza's race are named after something cold, example: frieza (freezer, literally.), king cold (self explanatory), cooler (lol). You get the point)."
no its because sayians can't breathe in space, vegeta already said it
Honestly, the biggest thing about powerscaling? When, in any of these fantasy series with magic and everything, does it state that actual IRL physics applies? Some it obviously does, like jujutsu kaisen because it's urban fantasy, but if it's not stated that a laser has all the implications, it does not have those fuckin' implications. Haku having mirrors does not mean that he goes the speed of light, or that the speed of light is even a thing in Naruto. Starcraft battlecruisers shooting a laser doesn't mean the marines are a gigameter tall, because there's nothing to say that there's a speed of light in Starcraft (and honestly, more against it, space magic). It means that people reacting to force lightning doesn't make them gods that can accelerate to lightspeed in an instant, it means that someone dodging anything that resembles a laser isn't able to clean the ears of everyone on earth within 10 seconds. It's nonsense.
Also, dimensions. What is that? What does it even mean? Yes, that one character from superman, the mr gibberish one, was really really strong because he was '4 dimensional', but it's bizarre that it's become this ladder of "this character's more omnipotent than your character!!" kind of statement. Because, if nothing else, if it really was that big a thing? Ramiel from Evangelion would instantly end the series. It's explicitly 4-dimensional. It's just... another spatial dimension. That whole flavour of power scaling makes my brains melt out of my ears whenever I see it.
That point about lasers is very true. People don't seem to understand that the word "laser" is colloquially used to refer to any type of generic energy beams. The vast, overwhelming majority of humanity doesn't even know what the word "laser" stands for. They just see a beam and they slap the word laser on it. There are people who, to this very day, refer to Kamehameha or other Ki blasts as "laser beams" or "laser blasts" even tho those things obviously are not lasers.
Until it's stated the laser in question explicitly travels at the speed of light, then dodging said lasers is not a quantifiable speed feat.
Dimensional tiering is arguably even bigger garbage than "laser dodging" feats, as it has literally 0 mathematical or scientific basis. Mass is not a dimensional unit, and is therefore irrelevant to whatever your extension in spatial dimensions might be. And velocity is something that can be measured in only one dimension. The core premise of dimensional tiering is therefore dead wrong. Someone being from a "higher dimension" does not automatically mean that they are "infinitely stronger" or "infinitely bigger" than a lower dimensional creature.
If we have a 5D Goddess with a mass of 100kg who is moving at a velocity of 5 m/s, and a regular 3D bloke with a mass of 100kg who is also moving at a velocity of 5 m/s, then they both have the exact same kinetic energy. Period. No matter how much power scalers stomp their feet and whine about how their character is a "+60000D dimensionally transcend complex hypertransversal god who scales above fiction," it's not going to change the plain and simple fact that dimensions have nothing to do with how hard one can strike or how much damage they can tank.
Power scalers are obnoxious and make everything about what tier they fall into and if they can beat Goku. but writers can make a character do a thing that would be impossible without surpassing the speed of light and it would be fine. I always hate when some jackass on the internet says what is and isn’t possible in FICTION.
Very interesting. This video looks like it took useful effort to make. Great job. 👍 Of course, the true justification is simply that fictional characters can operate under science-fiction logic and magical logic where their superpowers aren't accurate to realistic science.
One of the most ridiculous things I have seen in Dragon Ball "physics" is when Goku and Berus clashes were said to be ripping apart the very fabric of the universe while earth was just fine. And by fine I mean not even tsunamis and hurricanes were created while the whole universe was being threatened.
And people say that because Goku AND Beerus threatened to break the universe, then GOKU is multiversal? He didn’t BREAK the universe, him and beerus together both shook the universe
@@godzilla-thekaiju4142They were about to destroy it and they destroyed multiple planets as seen in the manga, they say he is multiversal because the macroscom is said to be Five dimensional, and SSJB is literally 50x stronger than SSG either way, also, the shockwaves were a result of beerus power which goku later equalized, preventing the universe of being destroyed
@@Alphaj0r
Facts... That was literally in the Manga and lightly mentioned in the Anime. It is NOT something Power Scalers thought of when the source material literally calls it out.
It's the same with Kratos vs Thor in regard to the World Tree and Odin. This is all source material. It's undeniable.
It's like the fabric of the universe that's in danger, not just that there're stong breezes or whatever
Like the actual objects within the universe were probably OK until the fabric actually gets destroyed
Or something
@@godzilla-thekaiju4142the dragon ball universe is different from ours as it’s multilayered. It’s a macrocosim that consists of near countless universal sized realms that are infinite in size and they all have there own logic and time. The clash was felt within these universes making the feat low multiversal. Do you even watch dragon ball?
well, it is fun to toy with these concepts regardless xD
Gotta give credit where credit is due.
Bro flexing that college diploma for bad power scalers
My two main issues with power scalers is they treat every universe physics as equal then compare it to real would physics. And they treat flashier sounding abilities as stronger than they are and down play others plain sounding skills. An example of this is Anos from Misfit at demon king academy is treated as having immeasurable speed because he can move during a "time stopping" spell, but won't put Goku on that level of speed when he has moved during a "time stopping" skill (Destroying Hit's time stopping ability) or when he forced himself into the future (to defend himself against Hit's time stopping skill). If we were to use real world physics if time truly stopped it would be total darkness for the person using the skill since light is no longer moving for them to see.
Thats cuz most people are unsure if its a "He's faster than time" or a "He broke through by having more ki, and also whether hit's ability is stopping time since they don't make it super easy to understand. In the manga it even states that someone stronger than hit can break his time ability so there's also that. Anos' is more clear and cut since its a legit time stop and he just moves through it either cuz of speed or cuz of some resistance he has. Also stop trying to argue that time stop can't happen when a series already has junk that doesn't apply with real world physics like shooting lasers out the palms of their hands or flying. Clearly they have their own laws of physics that apply to them.
For as much flack as power scalers get for ignoring the story for their feats.
People don't use the breaking Hit's time skip for speed because of what the story said.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
@@brochiing4295Exactly
People in the power scalling community really ignore how many inconsistencies arrive when a character moves at relativistic speeds they should use more common sense when doing their hobby
“Common sense” is always irrational. And they use a specific kind of physics to be accurate to the stories they discuss, not to be accurate to reality. Y’all just like talking about shit you don’t involve yourself with, mind your business boys.
@@ShesBearynicecry😢😢😢😢😢
@@ShesBearynice if what you say its true then they shouldnt use physics in the first place to powerscale and only use feats consistent with the story itself. you cant just take what is usefull to make the point of why x character is this strong when they collapse under the same logic. But I guess you are right I shouldnt involve myself with a community of people whose 3/4 of their population cant even do their own hobby properly while claiming they are logical, or consistent.
Not really take for example Kizaru from OP who was stated to be able to move at lightspeed... Any character that keeps up with him can move at that speed as well obviously
Writers really don't take into account the laws of physics, they just write
Or shinra who when he approaches lightspeed the mechanics in his verse is quite different, instead of acquiring infinite mass his body destroys time reverses and it reattaches again
It really depends on how the writers wants to write his story and powerscalers just follows the laws of the individuals universe
@@ShesBearynice powerscalers when they get triggered:
Writers just don't really care if their character would beat the other writer's character coz they are too occupied with well, writing the story.
I mean, it’s not just Goku. Superman, the Flash, Thor, Omniman, One Punch Man and any number of assorted other characters pull this same silliness.
as someone who's starting to get interested in physics, this video makes me happy
I just like Godzilla powerscaling mostly the ones who give physics a middle finger
This guy just taught me things my teachers dont even know
When the "☝🤓" is taken too far 💀
Powerscaling is for those who wanna feel smart talking about comic books while using physics they don't understand.
You don’t understand what powerscaling is. Powerscalers tell you that you don’t know anything about the hobby, and you just wanna feel smart by pretending that a conversation you don’t have interest in is an inferior way to spend time because YOU want to feel smart 😂😂😂
You know nothing about power scaling TBH
@@ShesBearynice What are you waffling about?
@@paglaith5561 He's spittin tho
nah
This is the second major problem with excessive powerscaling. The first is that 99% of authors don't write with powerscaling in mind, meaning there can be a lot of outlier feats that are solely for the rule-of-cool. The second problem is the "It's fictional so things work different" defense I've seen. That would be fine, but you can't apply real world sciences to explain how strong someone is, then when the problem comes up that some feats that go into that result don't work according to said real-world science, you say the real world science doesn't matter.
Yes, you can. You’re just reframing the way people have these discussions in a way that cuts out the reasoning why they selectively apply aspects of physics, because you don’t want to accept that people do so purposefully to construct the most consistent interpretations of their fictional character’s physical capabilities for the purpose of having a fun thought experiment, because you’re just as annoying as they are and you can’t tell that 😂
@@ShesBearyniceInstead of being an ass under other people's comments, make your own video lil bro. I also don't have to explain that "selectively applying aspects of physics" is nonsense because physics come in a package that is intertwined with our reality. Find something else to do
I draw the line at "this feat shows that they should be able to do x thing" and then the story shows them clearly not able to do that very thing later on and they ignore it, and that's NOT a power scaling issue, that's on the scaler, it's an outlier, it's just VERY few scalers I've seen will ever call something and outlier if it favors their argument
They kind of just want to argue tbh
@@ShesBearynicebro why are you so pressed on people criticizing power scaling, I saw you in multiple reply sections
@@ShesBearyniceBro just stop
In DC it's explained that reason why Flash doesn't destroy everything around him when he moves faster than the speed of light is because he has a "speed force aura" that protects him and anyone that he is saving when moves.
I think something similar is in dragon ball too where all the ki users have this unseen aura that protects everyone and everything around them.
cope
@@oranj22 For what?
...?
How so?
If saiyans have destroyed planets before
also how does it make sense KI DOESNT INSTANTLY DESTROY PLANETS
@@ch4rliegaming They probably dial back how strong the blast radius is or something. The flash can pretty much do the same bro can defy the speed force protection and fucking break through gravel and shit and light stuff on fire.
Reminds me of someone saying Goku in original Dragon Ball was multi light speed because he blitzed a guy who blitzed a guy. "Because you can't perceive someone moving at light speed"
He did move faster than a solar flare or whatever the technique is called, I kinda forgot because it isn't used anymore, but he moves faster than it to get his sunglasses in one point if I remember correctly.
@@randomyoutuber2633
He didn't move faster than the solar flare. We're never shown or told when he left.
When people use an appeal to reality fallacy in power scaling discussions, they are essentially relying on real-world constraints or limitations to argue against hypothetical scenarios or the rules within a fictional universe. This fallacy occurs when someone dismisses a concept or idea solely based on the belief that it doesn't align with the current understanding of reality.
In power scaling, especially in the context of fictional worlds like in anime, comics, or other speculative genres, the rules and constraints are often defined by the creators. These rules may deviate from real-world physics or logic. People using an appeal to reality fallacy may argue that certain powers or events are implausible based on real-world science or logic, ignoring the established rules within the fictional setting.
The point of this video is to show why cross scaling universes with ftl feats using irl maths is dumb, as there is no pre ordained rules made by the creators for this to work in, so people rely on 'our' physics. But you can't do that.
Power scaling is cool and all but I hate it when it just takes over and turns into a stupid argument
“I don’t like it when people yell about things!”
I’m sorry your mom and dad traumatized you so much with their verbal abuse at each other that you can’t ignore nerds arguing about stupid shit.
@@ShesBearynice Bro stop crying in every comment section. It's pathetic.
@@ShesBearynice you’re 100% pressed I guaranteed that💀
When I saw your title I instantly agreed. You have my respect.
is this a math video disguised as power scaling debunk video
You got me
A physics video
Powerscalers try to apply parts of real physics to fictional and fail miserably
Power scaling, that's the good ole "my dad can beat up your dad" you've heard in schoolyards.
Stan Lee has stated that who wins a fight depends on who the scriptwriter wants to win.
Yeah, and do you know what writing a script requires? A world that is just realistic enough to be understood as relatable to the reader, with rules that are just consistent enough to explain and make the story make sense.
So, powerscaling, and very rough, not 100% exact physics. If your characters have “speed”, they literally must be traveling a distance over time in their world. Uh-oh, sounds like an aspect of physics is real in a story! 😂😂😂
There are many knowledgeable people in the comments but very few intellegent people. Holy smokes and its clear this guy filters comments due to all the comments agreeing with each other
I dont lol, scroll down. Youll see plenrty of people missing the point of the video.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo Critical thinking is the baby of intelligence. Anyone who's actually messed around with mathematical proofs would recognize that the thought processes you need to navigate proofs are the same thought procceses needed for powerscaling
Powerscaling is quite literally "critical thinking exercises." Critical Thinking >>>>>> Knowledge so to draw your sword against anything that improves the critical thinking of the populace means you are ANTI-Intelligence. And that makes you my sworn enemy
"Knowledge" people always have the worst case of Intelligence Blindness
This vid is totally pointless. Obviously physics only makes sense in reality. Powerscaling came about to put plausible ends to debates about 'x character from x verse vs y character from y verse.' As we only have the math for reality and not the endless plethora of fictional verses, they use what they know and form scales to apply them to whatever mediums they're measuring and comparing.
everyone's happy and all until the mangaka says bullshit like "its faster than light 100% facts no cap" and then we cannot do shit about it because he created the character.
I hate powerscaling so much.
i love how he is explaining the formulas for how to make a blackhole while also taking time to define what radius means
power scalers are people who got bullied or is getting bullied in school.
Like you?
@@ShesBearynice damn bro, you sound Pressed rn?
@@ShesBearynice Bro self reported
This is the biggest self projection in the history of mankind, dawg 😭🙏🏻
@@SpiderMan23000 and obviously you're a Spiderman fan. Do better.
There’s a reason “appeal to reality” exists
Don't forget Goku can reach inaccessible speed/ faster than instantaneous movement. Now I'm not too big into numbers such as yourself(🤓) but I'm pretty sure if you are going faster than a type of movement that can travel vast distances in 0 seconds, then that would cause some problems
100% my friend, goku still solos super 17
man wtf kind of bs is that, thats not a feat thats just some kindergarten level "My character is infinity speed so I win" type bullshit. How tf does anyone take this shit seriously
wait what? I thought Goku has Infinite speed.
@@mrsketchysketch680 lmao that would mean he spedblitzes his own verse. He’s still only FTL.
@@mrsketchysketch680infinite speed means he could just run really fast and instantly kill whoever he wants due to the force of impact also being infinite, heck he could just carry a single grain of sand and do infinite damage as the sand would have infinite speed as well.
*Goku: *turns blue**
*This unemployed RUclipsr:*
Cross-universe powerscaling is only really possible to do with very low powerlevel ones, like Kengan Asura vs Baki fights. Once you start to get into muh FTLs it gets really hard.
I still like it though because not everything needs to be correct to be fun.
You can’t even do it with Baki due to how ridiculous it is. Baki powerscalers are just as bad. The amount of times they reference a feat, it doesn’t make sense in context or overall. Like Yujiro somehow stopping an earthquake, but this ability is never seen again or make sense to other characters who are supposedly physically stronger like Pickle.
@@FlashmanJW Baki is pretty absurd, but you can still do lowball/highball, choosing to ignore or accept outlier feats like the earthquake thing. Powerscaling isn't this always precise art, it's just a hobby
@@FlashmanJW Baki is very obviously NOT meant to be taken seriously, the main dude literally fought (and got hurt by) an imaginary Mantis.
@@thunderspark1536Giant elephants, dudes pissing hard enough to cut rock as an attack, ect.
@@engineergaming1669 Also sex makes your pp disappear and makes you immune to nut shots.
🤓Quick correction🤓:
With special relativity, physicists today don’t really use relativistic mass. For the full energy equation of energy, E=γmc^2.
With the schwarzschild radius equation, it uses rest mass, not relativistic mass. The laws of physics are the same for any observer under constant motion, so travelling faster wouldn’t increase the Schwarzschild radius. Therefore, Goku travelling close to the speed of light wouldn’t crush everything under our laws of physics.
Warning: Tangents.
If Goku would want to fly around in space under our laws of physics, he’d have to accelerate another mass in the opposite direction, like an actual rocket does. Unlike a rocket, he’d have to produce the mass as he flies, by creating equal amounts of matter and antimatter at a high relative velocity (the alternative would be to use up biological waste). Anything the beam of matter and antimatter would hit would gain an equal amount of momentum to Goku, but in the opposite direction. It would also cause annihilation to occur, releasing energy equal to the amount Goku put in to create the mass.
What’s funny is that if you were to try to construct a universe without the effects of special relativity, the universe would still be different to that of DBZ or any other fictional universe, as light wouldn’t exist. Light (electromagnetic waves) is made up of fluctuations along the magnetic and electric field. A change in the electric field causes an opposite change in the magnetic field and vice versa, which is a result of special relativity. So Goku, governed purely by Newtonian physics would be able to travel as fast as he’d want, but he’d be blind.
Good response, I was hoping someone would ask some physics stuff.
In regards to your first point, Relativistic Mass is quite literally the rest mass multiplied by the Lorentz factor, M = γm, as explained at 0:52. so E= Mc^2 is very valid. For special relativity at least, relativistic mass is still very much in use and there is 100% an increased in the observed mass of an object the faster it goes.
For the bit about the Schwarzschild radius equation, you're very much correct. But, if I observed an object going at the speed of light, due to the same equation you quoted, it would either approach or achieve an infinite amount of energy. This would create a black hole, whose radius would spread at the speed of light, due to the infinite mass.
The Schwarzschild radius equation is more about how small something needs to be before electrodynamic forces and I guess the Pauli exclusion principle fails and we see a black hole form. The hypothetical idea here is that if you have an object with infinite energy, then, it would be infinite in size. BUt due to Goku or any other character not being infinite in size, the origin point of the black hole would be on him, and it would spread out, probably at the speed of light.
Regarding your first tangent, Goku having anti matter matter explosion propulsion as a method of flying would be great lmao.
But since when they fly, they dont blow up everything, I would make an assumption they push off of some invisible ether to get the propulsion they need. Perhaps something all ki is connected too, but thats just schizo head canon.
Youre not wrong, but we had a good working of light during Newtons time, we just considering it as particles, I think. Electromagnetism was just the unification of forces between Electricity and Magnetism using Maxwells equations (Which is ironic, because most of the equations he didn't discover.)
Anyway, regarding the schwarzschild radius equation, whilst I was studying physics at uni, it was just a funny little thought experiment I had, the laws of physics break down welllll before then.
@@Big_Dawg_Dojo My first point wasn’t really a correction, but rather a point around notation convention, but I do get that using either convention leads to the same results within special relativity.
What I was referring to with the second point is that the Schwarzschild radius equation is derived from inertial mass (rest mass). Most equations from general relativity use inertial/rest mass, which is why the concept of relative/observed mass within special relativity has been mostly discontinued as a concept.
If the effects of special relativity would not apply to our universe, light wouldn’t exist. It’s less of a problem about our capacity to model light, but rather its capacity to exist. It wouldn’t matter if we still had equations for light, its existence is entirely dependant on the effects of special relativity.
The ability is called "Instant transmission" which implies that regardless of the distance traveled he is getting there instantaneously. I don't think he is traveling faster than the speed of light, I think he is being instantaneously transported to his desired destination much like you would see with a wormhole or something of that sort perhaps by bending the fabric of spacetime (which I know also requires a lot of energy) but goku IS a pretty energetic guy ngl, so that may put your physics question to rest.
It isn't just instant transmission, people are claiming kid goku along with all the other characters were ftl. They really did get ftl eventually but people look at every little thing and try to upscale characters
Bro was fast enough to unfreeze time 😅
You had to add the fumo image at the end 😂😂
Of course 🤣
Wait a minute, this isn't power scaling. This is just relativistic Physics!
“Most of my viewers are brain dead” My guy you don’t even have viewers
“Powerscaling is fun” mfs when their favorite character loses a Death Battle: 😡
Bear in mind that powerscalers also traditionally disregard classical kinetic energy entirely aswell. And they do so *consciously.* Also the Law of Conservation of Energy because how else will they justify Attack Potency not corresponding to the levels of destruction that characters cause around (and I'm talking about fiction in general, not just Dragon Ball). So ye, even they admitedly selectively disregard physics in certwin aspects and yet they still want to use them for scaling. Sounds about right.
Because the story does that. Your idea is “The story is inconsistent with reality/is not perfectly consistent with reality, so not only am I uninterested in trying to understand things about it, I think people who are interested and come up with imperfect methods to do so are irrational and inferior”.
And that’s dumb. Because you not caring about nerdy details doesn’t make you better than anyone 😂😂😂
All they do is assume that very imperfect physics apply to the story the way it would be demonstrated. If gravity is a part of the story, they’ll take gravity into account. If you can punch a rock apart, then a VERY imperfect variation of the laws of physics seems to apply to the story. They only use the rules of the story as presented or explained, you just don’t like it when people think critically.
“It’s not that deep-“ fool, just say you can’t swim 😂😂😂
@@ShesBearynice Using real world physics and calculations just for some little bit of trivia and funzies is perfectly fine.
The real problem comes when powerscalers take it too seriously and treat it as an objective "field of study". And believe me: There's A LOT of them.
Finally someone said what I was saying for years, you earned my subscription
I always try to explain why characters aren't light speed to people on YT but they just say, "I'm not reading that," or they don't get it, so thankfully now I just can copy and paste a link!
Bro it's fiction
Still the diffrence is that It's fiction.
Fictional worlds work diffrently.
When you have a clear statement that says that character is equal/faster than light, then he is FTL no matter what. The fictional worlds work diffrently and real world rules doesn't apply.
Borsalino from One Piece is confirmed to be able to kick at speed of light, yet the destructive power coming from his kicks is basically just small destruction. He also can move VIA light-dispersion and still nothing happends.
Dragon Ball goes exactly same. You have universe sized realms outside the main universe, and characters can travel through them in a short time.
@@kfc-employee1380 Sorry that you had to type so much for nothing, but I guess I’ll explain it. Obviously they have out physics since every other example of physics is same to ours. And in the process of mangaka making the manga they even try to include explanations of how it works with real world science. These characters are not designed or meant to be powerscaled, let alone by people that have little knowledge of science. You have heard so much from powerscalers low-balling the speed of light that your basically brainwashed. One person said Asta is 15 billion times the speed of light… that’s simply unreasonable. At the speed of light, not even 15 billion times the speed of light it takes a fraction of a second to travel around the whole world, why do we still see characters travel if that’s the case. Your evidence needs to add up in all areas. When was Kizaru confirmed light speed btw, his devil fruit translates to glint-glint fruit, glint is referring to the brigantines of light, not necessarily light itself.
@@King_Leonidas723i ain't reading allat
@@lucius_zogratis213 Low IQ couldn’t even try.
I have no interest in anime , i did not know this is about dragon ball z fans.
as a new viewer, this is funny, and very cool to me
love this video, please make more :D
Nigga start gettin into that math shit i was gone💀💀💀💀
You can argue using in-universe statements and feats all you want, but the second you bring real physics into the mix, you're almost sure to lose.
Na I’d win
Finally someone bursting the "faster than light" bubble.
If someone moves from one galaxy to the other in 3 second Ain't they already faster than light!?
Would you call that individual slower than light?, Because the author doesn't follow the rules of reality when writing he's story doesn't mean common sense wouldn't give us the answer🤷
@@FJUVHJDSR common sense would tell you that is silly. Common sense wouldn't have you making calcs about comic books.
@@DesX42S you don't need to calculate anything to understand someone moving from one galaxy to the other is faster than light dummy😮💨
It's literally common sense/knowledge... Regardless of whether it's silly or not that's why it's called fiction, if you find it too silly go watch a reality show or drama.
@@FJUVHJDSR wow, must have struck a nerve.
@@DesX42Sno just plain ignorance from you
Very strong physics knowledge dude, good video.
But can it beat Goku?
Thanks broski. I have a degree in physics, Im trying to think of more ways to get it involved, but drawing a blank
power scaling isnt stupid, people who say goku is faster than light is stupid
controversy here lmfao
not power scalers or writers
Prove it.
@@a_randomuser4whats faster than the speed of light
@@roberto3047, your father leaving as soon as you where born.
@@a_randomuser4your first language isnt english, argument invalid
Feats>Else because these fictional stories aren't written by physicists and the logic doesn't work out. So when Wally West goes so fast he moves across the universe instantly, the only explanation is speedforce because the author wasn't thinking about real world consistency. Hence, using maths or real world equations is idiotic and also impossible. Saying Roshi with power level 130 blew up the moon so current Goku releases x(ubertrevigintillion) Joules of energy at max power is idiotic asf. Also comparing across verses is even stupider because the rules change lol.
In conclusion. Goku solos your favourite character.
You can't go "back in time" bc there's nothing to go back to. The universe doesn't have a recorded memory time is just a concept we experience gradually
I am aware. Using the maths, faster than light speeds would generate an "imagenary" component in the direction of travel, its like adding a y axis to an x axis.
I guess it would be more accurate to say across timelines but into a backward era. Its probably how Bulmas time machine works.
Conclusion: Any character who can move faster than the speed of light can have infinite power and energy, creating an black hole expanding at the speed of light on the posititve axis of time until the end of time, and then the character itself going back in time right before the black hole
Far as I'm concerned, the first actual _"lightspeed"-fighting_ (not "ftl" yet) character in the entire franchise is Dyspo.
The "Instantaneous Movement" technique is not exclusively meant for fighting, so I've personally never counted Goku as "ftl" before the very end of Super.
Bro goku has been stated to be light speed since namek arc, and in og db kid goku reacts to light based attacks and is much faster.
@@malikmcfarlane6060 The original DB explicitly states Popo (who remained the fastest character by the end of DB) is "faster than lightning". Lightning is not light; it's *_electricity_* (270,000 miles per hour). If you really knew how fast _light_ really is, then you'd know how much *slower* that end-of-original-DB feats are.
By the way, that "Namek Saga" statement you speak of is only in the dub, and even then, only because characters' *_eyes_* couldn't keep up with him. And we all know how utterly _unreliable_ sight really is in this series when it comes down to ANYTHING faster than _sound._
At first I thought you were going to be just one of those people to say he din't reach lightspeed because it was never stated, but then started talking about physics and alreay knew the result, good video bro
exactly, like how is goku lightspeed?
he hasnt slew down time
hell EVEN QUICKSILVER SLEW DOWN TIME
Saying Goku is faster than light is just faster than saying Goku can go faster than 160,000 mps. There’s nothing wrong with applying this logic to all fictional verses unless contradicted. Also, light might just move faster in DB than it does in our world, simple.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 That's the problem, if a single law of physics is contradicted, ALL of the laws of physics are inherently contradicted. We, as humans, break down the nature of reality into various, bite-sized laws, but in actuality, physics is one, singular massive equivalence. Gravity is mass, mass is energy, energy is velocity, velocity is time, just in their own proportions. Every single equation in physics is interconnected, if you remove one, the entire model ceases to function on both a mathematical and philosophical level.
@@akalichamp7030 it’s not a problem though, laws of physics can be broken in fiction without breaking the others because it’s fiction. It doesn’t have to adhere to the rules of reality, obviously. That’s why this video is pointless because it completely misses the point.
@@thelettucebarrel7784 it's not even really about the laws of physics by that point, it's about logical inconsistency. I fully agree that it doesn't have to adhere to the laws of reality, as does the guy making this video. The problem is when someone says "this universe doesn't obey the laws of reality", and then uses physics equations from the real world to make measurements in that same fictitious universe. Even if you want to say it's just for shits and giggles, and isn't meant to be scientifically literate - That's fine (I don't get the point of bothering at all at that point though), just don't pretend there are any grounds for objectivity, without making EXTREME postulations and axiomatic leaps.
The other problem is not really with power scaling itself, its with attempting to use physics in a way that demonstrates a poor understanding of it, as if laws exist separate from each other, and aren't just different expressions of a singular, monolithic, natural equivalence...
To put it simply, if you subtract even one equation from a model, you're no longer dealing with physics, you're dealing with magic, which is about as baseless as it sounds. Which is fine, just don't pretend it's scientifically or philosophically reasonable, and be aware that the element of scientific objectivity is out the window (any conclusion you arrive at with it is inherently conjecture)
@@thelettucebarrel7784 sorry for the wall of text friend
yeah it's hard to make arguments or anything on this when sometimes people just pull things out, Goku is simply FTL because he is fast enough to leap forward in time, and dodge light, simple stuff
lol ima send this to a saitama fan and see what they say
hehe bald man farts in space go brrrr
@@gamingforce1711 it do go brrrr tho...
@@TheHardenedOneyooooooo I love saitama but the way you talk gives mad red flags about your intelligence don't worry son I used to be just like you, you will grow.
@@Animeeditz1982 who hurt you?
@@TheHardenedOneno one
So you can ignore the Space Monkeys who fly, shoot laser beams and are fighting against a xenocidal lizard real estate agent, the literal time travel and the rideable cloud, but them saying no to physics is too much to ignore?
so you saying goku can destroy a content with just an ass clap?💀
If gokus ass cheeks move light speed, it would create a black hole that woukd spread at the spees of light lmaaaoo
@@Big_Dawg_DojoI don't wanna imagine that 💀
@@Big_Dawg_Dojothe possibilities!!!
All I got from this video was "Lorentz force GO!" AND IT WILL COME, LIKE A FLOOD OF RAIN, POURING DOWN ON ME, AND IT WILL NOT LET UP UNTIL THE END IS NEAR, UNTIL IT FINDS MY DREAMS HAVE DISAPPEARED!
Another idea that may emerge is fictional characters who appear to move faster than light are using x(whatever number) warp without realizing it. That would still have to be a huge number to go between galaxies fast enough for it to matter to a mortal. Should they introduce wormholes instead for every character that's supposed to travel so fast?
True... Teleporting and Travel Speed are not the same.
The Flash against a Teleporter character showed this off well.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615thr flash is probably the fastest fictional character man runs faster then instant teleportation
Shinra and Gojo going light speed is the one of the only lightspeed feat explained in a reasonable way.
My man. I applaud your efforts but you're about to see some Olympic level mental gymnastics and high caliber head canon by the powerscalers to explain why actual physics is wrong.
Yeah fr lmao
Easy you are just appealing to reality 😂🥱
@@ru8e42 As opposed to appealing to just the parts of reality that support your fictional man being stronger than the other fictional man you mean?
@@enumaelish9193Yeah, because using the parts of reality that are the same or similar enough to our story that are also the same as those in other stories is a reasonable way to draw comparisons to things 🤓
Because it is. If you think saying a character from one hyper realistic boxing story vs another character from another equally realistic boxing story is a stupid conversation just because;
The writer determines who would win (not the point of the conversation, we’re basing it on existing evidence in the texts, not what a writer would make happen), OR
The stories aren’t real;
Then you’re in no way shape or form equipped to criticize anyone’s reasoning ability, because it’s literally not intelligent in the slightest to argue that a discussion about a hypothetical with rules established by both interlocutors for the sake of fun, is dumb; just because none of it is real or because people can be assholes about it. 😂😂😂😂
@@ShesBearyniceAll that talk to try and sound smart. The reason people find powerscalers so obnoxious is that you people never agree on any "rules". It's the eternal game of "my guy beats your guy" "nuh uh my guy beats your guy" then you work backwards from there to try and justify why your fictional man beats the other fictional man. Your "rules" aren't rules because they change on a dime to suit your agenda. Then you ask to be taken seriously and take that nonsense everywhere. You guys and shippers are the vegans of any fiction community.
powerscalers be like "4 Th DiMenSioN is GoIng BEYonD sPACe (or time)" no it isnt.