**People may well be right about Criston Cole not consenting** - I think events from the books may have warped my perception of that scene, and I'll make sure to bring it up if it turns out that. Also, please don't misunderstand me: men also lack agency in this world, but I think there are some areas the show explores that women lack even further. ~ Tim
Something that's interesting to me about the dynamic between Daemon and Rhaenyra is the frequency with which they use High Valyrian; it speaks to a long-lasting closeness between them to me, and with the marriages that are about to happen I could see them playing into that relationship "behind the scenes."
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS* People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off. The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria. How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto. Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did. Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter. Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith. Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs. I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp. Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches Ep 1: Otto wins Ep 4: Daemon wins Score: 1-1
@@TeamDaemon1980 Only thing is that Viserys doesn’t believe Rhaenyra that they didn’t go all the way. If he did, he wouldn’t have had the tea made. It will be interesting to see if she took it since it’s probably a good idea or if she gave it back to stand firm that she is still a maiden
@@SnailHatan they don't do the same thing with other people who presumably could speak it (Vicerys and the Velaryons), it's primarily those two. Consider too that they do this a lot when around other people they know well wouldn't speak it like the kingsguard, the Hightowers, and other high lords or officials of the small council. This doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to be secretive, but people who aren't close typically don't just up and have a conversation in another language right next to or while in a group of people who don't know it if they don't have to.
@@TeamDaemon1980 sorry but why did you respond to me with this rather than posting generally in the comments section? I don't see how this responds to what I originally said. Fine observations, and a perfectly reasonable take on the characters' actions far as I can see, just don't see how it's relevant to my point.
I tought Daemon stopped kissing Rhaeyra for multiple reasons: Their interactions are always a powerplay, even their very first one (he pulls away the necklace as soon as she shows interest), so I think it was at least partly a powermove to pull away as soon as she got carried away I think above that he felt guilty when she looked him in the eyes, realizing that he was using his own family as a political pawn (and I believe he is all about family/ Targ superiority) And I also think he was surprised / taken aback by the intensity of it. I wouldn't go so far as to say he loves her, but there is certaily something there. Maybe that is also the reason why he drank himself into a complete stupor afterwords
@@asura7915 idk what you are saying no to??? He didnt keep going BECAUSE HE WAS IMPOTENT which stem from him knowing what he was doing is wrong deep down. Is word by word what Showrunner said
@@asura7915 there were two interpretations given, one that it’s because he lost control, the other because he felt guilty. It’s up to you which one is correct, or if neither are.
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS* People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off. The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria. How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto. Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did. Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter. Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith. Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs. I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp. Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches Ep 1: Otto wins Ep 4: Daemon wins Score: 1-1
One of the things I really like is how the relationship between Alicent and Rhaenyra is deteriorating. Despite all her attempts to stick her neck out for Rhaenyra and her rights when it would be SO much easier to vouch for Aegon like everyone else, Alicent finds that Rhaenyra has been acting like a spoilt brat, acting out to get attention and causing problems for everyone else. And the episode goes to lengths to stress how much Viserys has done to try and get Rhaenyra an appropriate match that satisfies her but she still spurns all offers, a situation Alicent never had yet it still isn’t good enough for Rhaenyra. You can see that while Rhaenyra’s actions are understandable as she’s being forced into a situation she doesn’t want, Alicent accepted her situation with diligence and grace and feels a bitter resentment towards Rhaenyra as she gets away with so much that neither she, nor any other girl in the realm, would be able to. The breakdown in their relationship despite Alicent’s best efforts to keep the family together is so well done, and I love it as much as I hate to see it.
Well, Rhaenyra did lose her mother in the predicament that Alicent is put in. Alicent lost her mother too but Rhaenyra's mother's death traumatized her more.
The thing is, for someone who is already trapped... Alicent would likely be grateful to have literally any crumb of freedom she could get, no matter how small. But Rhaenyra wants more, she doesn't want to simply settle for just making the best out of whatever is. She doesn't want to choose who to marry, because she doesn't want whether she marries or not itself to be a thing which she does not get to choose-even when this is one thing which not even the men in her life have really gotten to choose so freely either; her father married Alicent because he was obligated by his duty to marry again, even Daemon married someone he clearly did not choose or wish to marry out of some political duty that was commanded of him which he could not refuse, and now that Criston has joined the guard he too no longer has total freedom over whether or not he one day ever gets to marry[ .. not to mention at least half the suitors lined up vying for Rhaenyra's on her "tour" weren't there because they really wanted to be there competing for her hand so much as just because their families have obligated them to be there whether they want to be or not]. Honestly, I think that..in a way..Alicent actually reacted the way she did at first to the rumors of what Rhaenyra and Daemon had done because, Alicent's ideas of sex are[ as far as we know so far] wrapped up entirely in just what her own personal experience with marriage has been and nothing else, I actually doubt if she can fathom why any woman would actually voluntarily engage in it outside of the marital obligation to do so..and since Rhaenyra has objected so strongly to the idea of being shackled to marriage, perhaps Alicent personally also perceived that in a way as Rhaenyra being opposed to the idea of being shackled to sex as well, [all those things which perhaps Alicent can actually rather unfortunately and quite intimately entirely understand exactly why someone might wish to never be shackled with ]so maybe the idea that Rhaenyra might have voluntarily shackled herself into sex without being forcibly obligated into it by marital duties could have felt like an unfathomable betrayal to Alicent of everything she believed Rhaenyra to be so intensely opposed to?. ((Or maybe I'm just reading waayyy too much into it, here!🙃 👀 idk!!)) At least That was what I wondered if might have been the case, anyhow, when I was watching the scene where Alicent confronts Rhaenyra about the allegations. (Although, I kind of do wonder also, whether Alicent took a misguided liking at all to Daemon maybe from afar in the first episode or so before her father foisted her at the king instead..🤔🤔 Not sure. 😅) But maybe Alicent just thought that would be something that Rhaenyra might have told her about or confided in her directly. (Or has feelings for Rhaenyra, herself. Lol) Or just.. can't believe how or why Rhaenyra might endanger everything Rhaenyra currently has so recklessly like that Rhaenyra very nearly through it all away, since Alicent can't see how Rhaenyra feels no more free or respected or 'seen' or listened-to in Rhaenyra's position than Alicent currently does in Alicent's own position. I think it's difficult to say yet, because we've only just barely started peeling back the layers beyond the surface of what Alicent's personal wants actually are or not. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to know her a bit better, moving forward, too. ^-^
His episode really mad me sympathise with Viserys’ frustration with Rhaenys She clearly wants to be heir, if only because she sees it as the closest thing to proof she has that her father loves her, but she adamantly refuses to do the things an heir or queen are expected to do and makes stupid, reckless decisions while insisting that being the heir and eventually queen should be enough for people to listen to her without playing politics
I like her but she is acting entitled similar to daemon they just believe they deserve the respect and authority without putting any of the work in where viserys is tearing himself apart keeping the fragile power
@@connorhicks1712 She understands that most people respect their family due to their dragons, but doesn’t understand that if you don’t make allies and keep people relatively happy then you’re stuck in constant war. Also she seems unwilling to admit she’s scared of dying in childbirth like her mother before she can do anything with her life. If her mother had died another way I think she’d be more open to marriage
I'd like to take a moment and just say that I thoroughly enjoy listening to you give your opinions on different pieces of media Tim, even when I don't necessarily know about them myself. You have such a easily understandable way of structuring your arguments and I'm striving to emulate that too!
House of the Dragon is really showing a masterclass of adaptation. The changes they've made have all, so far, served the story so, so well. First among them, making Rhaenyra and Alicent closer in age and very close childhood friends (to the point that some insist they are actually in love with each other and that is the root of their animosity post Alicent's marriage to Viserys. I personally don't read it like that, but the queer reading does stand). If Alicent was older to Rhaenyra, she wouldn't be able to understand or relate to her experience as much because she would not be in a similar stage of life. Another dimension to this is the fact that she was named heir when she was older, rather than as a young girl in the books. In the books, she always expected to be heir, she was named earlier. Whereas here, she was waiting for a brother and was satisfied with her role as princess. The late change in her status, only then to be challenged with the birth of her half-brother Aegon, makes her position so much more precarious. Another thing is the fleshing out of Viserys' character. In the book, he really reads more like a spineless, easy to manipulate king who doesn't want to make difficult decisions and lets others talk him into what they want. The Viserys of the show, instead, is moved by self-doubt due to his dragon dreams. He is wrecked with indecision and guilt because the wrong move can literally spell out the end of the world. Otto we always knew was not the lord of Hightower, but the introduction of his older brother and his demand that Aegon be named heir instead, allows us to see that Otto himself is being pressured by greater powers and it's not just his own machinations. The fact that he then applies this pressure to Alicent is nice symmetry. So far I've been so so impressed with House of the Dragon. They continue to make the nuanced decisions. And I look forward to seeing how they manage the sprawling cast and civil war to come!
This episode is so good. Two scenes solidify it for me. 1. Scene of King and Daemon "breaking up": guards trowing Daemon down on the floor before the thrones and Vyseris showing his anger to the fullest, kicking him, threatening, clearly showing that he is a king, he has a power, and he feels it inside him. We really see a different face of him there, and we also see a weak side of Daemon. Vyseris turned up to be a fascinating character. Also scene was shot beautifully. 2. Scene jf Rhaeynera and Cole being actually so uncomfortable. In the last episode they looked so cute and i started rooting for them, but here we see how hesitant he is, and how strongly she pushes him. With this this level of power difference and how much Cole himself is to lose it does feel like a genuine SA from Rhaeynera side. Not like she has nothing to lose from it, but it is also her choice, while Cole has none. We usually see this sort of stuff with reserved genders. But here it makes perfect sense.
He looks so uncomfortable. He does "choose" to sleep with her, but he tries to stop it and she pushed so much and it's so clear he would rather leave. And, the next day he isn't happy or proud or anything. He looks ashamed and disappointed. I hope they keep following down his reaction to this instead of just dropping it like so many other stories would
I viewed Daemon pulling back as him realizing that his political maneuvering would hurt Rhaenyra. But once the news got out he leaned into it because he might as well.
Not gonna lie, just saw the episode, then I staid in place while waiting for the twothefuture analysis of the episode. As someone who hasn't read the books, these analysis are amazing because I learn so much and it's so interesting! Also, I've loved the focus on women's perspectives, and how this show handle the reality of women in these worlds. The lack of agency, the clear double standard on sexuality for men and women, the prison of duty. it's amazing
The thing is, though.... refusing to comply with royal demands .. could _also_ potentially ruin Criston too, if she weren't to handle his refusal well. He basically had _zero_ good choices, there. (Especially when he kind of owes her literally everything that he has, to begin with.)
GRRM stated that the showrunners have made "improvements" to the book in certain areas, and you can see that. Alicent is now far more of a nuanced and sympathetic character for example. They've done a terrific job, not least supporting the story with excellent writing and direction. Superb show.
Has anyone noticed how since getting married to Viserys, Alicent has only been wearing Targeryan colors? Maybe down the story,she will go start wearing the color green to signify her regaining some agency and showing how her interests are different from the crown
@@Weeby_historian I'm just saying the information has already been presented. That line and this book have been out for a while. No telling how the showrunners will get us there, but it's not as if this is new information.
@@ArmednotTriggered I’m not really sure what your point is. That people that haven’t read the book shouldn’t want to avoid a spoiler for a story they’re choosing to approach with fresh eyes?
I'd really like to see a comparison between the characterization and worldbuilding in House of the Dragon in contrast to Rings of Power, my perception is that House of the Dragon is a far richer narritive already. Rings of Power has exceeded my expectations, but they were not particularly high. House of the Dragon has vastly exceeded them, but then I probably underestimated it in light of the end of GoT and other spinoffs. I find the distinction in their characterization of women to be really interesting, RoP leant into it in their advertising and related media prior to release, and yet it feels really superficial, whereas HotD didn't really present to that but seems to have loads of depth and interesting explorations in relation to the charaterization of women in their setting.
Honestly the incest is something I can't quite get over. With Game of Thrones I struggled alot with it I just kept seeing the abuse and grooming that occurred and when I engage with the online community and people are going yas for Rhaenyra and Daemon and all I can see is grooming. I watch alot of video essays and one of the points someone made was that anyone that participated in Child Sexual Abuse never get the ending they want. People forget that they age up people in the shows. People ask me why do I engage in this series anyway and the honest answer is that everyone around me is in this community and are always talking about it and debating it and I don't like how people romanticise it and I feel the need to remind them of modern morals. That yes in historical contests there is concepts of divine rule throughout monarchy societal history. But the health of those families was and has been seriously affected by it and the shipping of young tween with significantly older men and women shouldn't be something fans should engage in and forcing them to have pregnancies from that young a age results in damage and fertility issues and mental health issues. I feel I have to remind my friends of that and lately I think it's actually getting through to them. I had the same kind of discussion when Bridgerton came out as when it got to the final conflict of the show my mind jumped instantly to that is sexual assault. And apparently it's even worse in the book. And in both cases the duke apologises to her rather than the other way around. Like I understand historical context bur the same time we shouldn't be romantising these events on screen we shouldn't be sexualising these kinds of moment of harassment and abuse. The Sandman extra episode I believe showed an example of it best. It didn't show the assault it implied it. It didn't romanticise the act it didn't sexualising the act but we felt Calliope's pain. I get it sex sells in media I'm just saying let's make the sex that sells be between two consenting adults and not show and instead imply when it's not and only if it is important for the story. Let's stop sexualising kids and glorifying assault
I interpreted Daemon’s impotence as him being caught off guard by Rhaenyra being into it. If sex is power, he can’t stand that she has power over him and can’t go through with it. The relationship (ignoring the incest part) is extremely predatory. Even if Rhaenyra is into it, Daemon’s intent was predatory given the age difference and power dynamic involved.
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 Indeed. Complete reversal of a power dynamic and really problematic for a lowly Kingsguard either way he chooses. Rhaenyra ABSOLUTELY could have refused Daemon. She's strong willed, the heir to the Iron Throne, and still a maiden. She had but scream or leave and Daemon would not have pursued. But she wanted it -- give the girl some credit for embracing her agency and stop making her out to be a victim.
Right!? It’s so predatory and gross. Everything Daemon did leading up to the interaction in the pleasure house was grooming behaviour. It was very difficult to watch and would likely be incredibly triggering for anyone who has survived grooming and sexual abuse. I love the political intrigue elements of the show, but the incest/abuse story elements are a huge no for me :/
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 Yeah, that one really rubbed me the wrong way too. He was clearly reluctant and the power dynamic was stacked against him. The vows of chastity and how serious they take them is a huge deal. I'm pretty sure he can be executed for just breaking the oath, let alone breaking it with the princess.
As a fan of Fire and Blood, I'm really looking forward to the end of the show, where we get Grover, Elmo, Kermit, and Oscar Tulley. No, I'm not joking.
I find it interesting that you say Alicent is experiencing “marital rape” while saying Criston Cole was only “hesitant and nervous”. There was far more to suggest that Rhaenyra was coercing Criston into sex than Viserys was Alicent. All that happened to Alicent was a maidservant told her Viserys wanted to see her. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra had to lure Criston in by taking his helmet, kissing him, taking his armor off while he was resistant up until the end. It was purposely shown as something she had to actively lure him into. And Criston potentially faces far worse consequences for having sex with the princess, and for denying her. At the very least, he would be imprisoned and stripped of his status entirely. Shit Viserys said he would take the eyes of just the **messenger** who delivered the word about Rhaenyra and Daemon. Imagine what he would do to Criston, a kingsguard sworn to celibacy, for defiling the princess and heir. Alicent, on the other hand, wouldn’t be killed by Viserys for not having sex for one night. Quite a vast difference in power between Criston and Rhaenyra. Not so big a difference between the King and Queen.
Alicent simply can't say no. The rules of this universe are the same ones that in medival europe and back then marital r*pe was not even considered a thing. Wives had a duty to have s*x with their husbands whenever he wanted it, and refusing was not even an option ,no matter how they felt about it.
The entire episode was Deamons counterpart against Otto. By soiling Rhaenyra's honour he tricked Otto into overstepping his boundaries, forcing him out as hand. I think the course of events are structured enough that the result of Otto being fired is not simply a butterfly effect.
I took Daemon's withdrawal in the pleasure house to be him not quite being the badass het thinks he is. In other words he was scheming and seductive enough to come up with the plan and just about pull it off. But he saw how deep the betrayal would be to use Rhaenyra like that and just couldn't follow through.
I took it as he got whiskey dick. Sir Christian Cole, on the other hand, was able to perform in bed after what was probably like 10-15 minutes of removing his armour, that is the most underappreciated aspect of this episode
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS* People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off. The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria. How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto. Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did. Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter. Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith. Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs. I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp. Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches Ep 1: Otto wins Ep 4: Daemon wins Score: 1-1
@@Vee_9001 You do realize , right, that a person's psychological state[ such as feelings of guilt] actually could cause physical performance issues[ like impotency] too ?
@@TeamDaemon1980 too many holes in that theory. Daemon had no way of knowing who the information would go to or how it would end up. In addition, Daemon isn’t exactly a game player in that way. He’s too brash, impulsive, emotional, and straightforward. Personally I believe he was trying to play the game by “ruining” Rhaenyra, but at the last minute he realized he couldn’t do it. Again, he’s not a good manipulator; that’s why he keeps losing at the game.
Daemon goes to great lengths to reconnect with his brother and seek his favor, but the moment Viserys gets displeased with him, Daemon gets so defensive he will do or say anything to spite Viserys. Including straight up lying about what happened between him and his niece in a way that is guaranteed to harm her. A very interesting sibling dynamic.
I read Daemon’s withdrawal as him getting frustrated with his own sexual impotency (erectile dysfunction). He starts kissing her and it’s getting more intense, but then when it’s time to “couple”, as it were, he slows, then stops, then pulls back a bit even though Rhaenyra is still into it, as if he’s realizing what’s happening to him. He eventually hits the wall in frustration, and then leaves her in a fit of shame, to go drink himself into oblivion. I believe in the first episode when we see him in the brothel, it’s implied that he was having difficulty then too. This would also explain why his wife still isn’t pregnant.
Well, we also saw moments before where he did not seem to be having any issues performing at all, too? And the moments when we did see him struggle with it, I think, have all of those moments been pretty psychologically turbulent and fraught moments[ for him] as well?? (If I'm not mis-remembering something here?) So, I think it's still possible that some conflicting motivations and feelings or such at war in him could also be at fault too, somewhat? (But maybe that's just me.)
@@7Nebulae7 Exactly! He refers to the sheep in the Vale as being more attractive than the women. Daemon later demonstrates with both of his wives that he has no problem fathering children when he's attracted to the women.
Having read Fire and Blood before the series, I’d been talking a big game about how the incest didn’t really bother me anymore - specifically on the Targaryen side of things, call me an exceptionalist I suppose. And then the Daemon and Rhaenyra stuff made me really uncomfortable, so that’s good to know about myself, really, “Still not okay with incest”. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an episode of something with so much sex that made me so deeply uncomfortable at all points - still a little weirded out at the Doctor getting some, the incest, Alicent clearly disassociating and self-harming while with Viserys, and then with Rhaenyra and Criston Cole… I thought that was going to be a cute little palate cleanser, after all the bad, because they had such sweet chemistry before this. But he looks so miserable and beaten down pretty much the whole time, like we’re just watching Rhaenyra assault her bodyguard. Regarding your spoiler section (and I’ll be discussing spoilers here too, fair warning anyone who hasn’t read the book), I did the Leo meme when that happened, nice little bit of foreshadowing! I also thought they were hinting at something when, immediately after revealing the hidden passages in the Red Keep, they showed rats hanging out in a dragon skull. That must have been a nod to Blood and Cheese, right?
In an episode with so many great scenes, I think my favourite has to be the final scene with Viserys and Otto where he is removed as Hand. It is just two phenomenal actors honing their craft by putting these two extremely flawed yet somehow still likeable characters up against one another as you understand why Viserys has turned against Otto but you also can’t help but feel bad for Otto as while he is devious and self-serving, EVERYONE in this city is, and what gets him fired wasn’t his underhanded scheming but the one time he told the unambiguous truth when he had nothing to do with the events in question. Every second of the scene was just a masterclass of acting and I was utterly drawn to the screen; a superb job from the actors, writers and director. _(The only complaint I’d have is that it’s weird Baelon’s time as hand has been reduced from nine years to five days? I don’t really see the point of that but again, lore nitpick. 😅)_
Perhaps they are saying that his time as the hand was extended in the historical accounts because of Viserys' unhappiness/displeasure about it[ and his implied suspicions that Otto might have caused it / thus "robbed" it from Viserys' father], as it was expressed in this episode? 🤔🤔😅🤷♀️👀
But Otto did NOT tell Viserys the unambiguous, quite the opposite. He told the king that Daemon and Rhayneara had intercourse, which was false as we saw what really happened. His problem was trusting information from a child who only saw them go in together.
I watched this series because of your reviews and I loved it. I also liked the details of the lack of interaction between Alicent and her biological children, especially Aegon, her oldest. She was pushed into a marriage, experiences marital rape, and was very young through all of it. Even though later *spoilers* she shows that she’s always loved her son when he doubts her, she had a hard time showing that because she was basically a teen mother in a loveless marriage with extreme pressure all around her. In real life as well, a lack of a mother’s love turns sons into bad people who harass, hoard, and rape others in search for a love their missing and that’s exactly what Aegon turns into. It’s sad but it’s a good detail
I think Daemon definitely had a lot of things going through his head. I think at first he did bring her out to show her how the people felt about her. It might have been to endear her to him, but it seemed like initially he did genuinely want to help. I think his decision to try to take advantage of her was partially to spite his brother and partially because he does find her attractive after not seeing her for 3 years. I think he stopped because when she turned back around it forced him to acknowledge who she was. Despite everything I think he does care for her in some twisted way. I don't think he offered to marry her to get closer to the throne. I think he does enjoy spending time with her and wants to advise her. Still messed up on many different layers, but I do think there's affection in there.
You really broke down one of the aspects I loved most about this episode; the women, the literal and figurative discussion of power and agency in both the kingdom and in a sexual encounter, the consistent and every growing greyness of ALL characters as people are (universally) morally ambiguous. As a side note, I also appreciated the thoughtful and nuanced direction of the intimate scenes this episode, but in everything else I felt this was the WEAKEST episode aesthetically. Lots of unappealing framing and some really flat lighting.
Daemon even just taking Rhaenyra out there, in the first place, could be seen in so many different ways. Like, as either...him just intentionally setting her up to be in a reputationally precarious situation &/or simply wanting to get close to her just to get back at the king..or him just genuinely hearing what she's confided in him about wanting her freedom and not wanting to be married and genuinely caring about her and wanting to show her that there really is potentially more to sex or marriage than just something to be feared or resented(&/or that even if it is an awful marriage she didn't necessarily have to be just totally shackled to it without any respite)[ for her own benefit and perhaps even as well as for his brother's benefit since the king actually wants her to choose to marry]..OR him just genuinely kind of feeling a connection &/or draw to her personally for basically this entire series thus far[ whether you read that as anything deeper or just read it as superficial lust or hunger for power or whatever]. Even him refusing to defend himself against the king's accusations of defiling her and/or him asking for her to be wifed to him could be seen in multiple different ways. I mean, we have seen his brother constantly approach these conversations with a mind that's pretty much already made up every single time and even outright declaring "don't even deny it" like it already doesn't matter what Daemon says he's already condemned because the king always believes the words of everyone else over Daemon's own words-so maybe Daemon's legit just tired of constantly getting slapped down every time when he almost really does just want to close the distance between them, so why even bother trying anyway, even though maybe he really genuinely did just miss home or his brother and all like he told Rhaenyra he did. Or it could be because he wanted to, even though he didn't actually manage it, so that makes him feel guilty like he deserves whatever the king throws at him. (I mean, maybe it's not being related that makes him feel guilt obviously, but like the fact that he's torn between wanting to use her and genuinely wanting her; or maybe he took her there just intending to open her eyes[ &/or to sully her reputation], not actually intending to want to follow through with actually doing anything with her, until he did end up wanting to..yet ultimately still couldn't. [ ..I mean its totally ambiguous if he uncovered their hair when they first entered there because he actually wanted them to be recognized or because of how he personally sees brothels as a kind of haven in which they can be more free to be themselves without restraint. Or what ? . ...] I dunno.) Or maybe he was just opportunistically seizing the moment to rub it in his brother's face, possibly having planned it all just to get back at the king or get the king's attention like this in the first place. Maybe he even was, in his own way, legit just trying to spare Rhaenyra the unwanted marriage fate she's clearly told him she dreads-thinking he at least could give her the freedom that she actually wants to keep or whatever more than any other husband probably might. Or maybe he's just making his move trying to grab for the throne and/or get at the king. Or maybe he does just legit kind of like and/or want her[ for himself], and want to be with/around her[, not just as a political pawn]; either because she has 'matured' to please the eyes, or because she's the one person who has always kind of understood him and never really scorned him or his company before then. So, of course, there are any number of differing ways to interpret why he started kissing her and why he stopped as well. (But if you watch the "inside the episode" bit....where showrunner, directors, and actors/actresses talk about behind-the-scenes stuff-they say Daemon had a moment of impotence. Although, personally, I think every time we've seen Daemon struggle with that before...it's been when he's feeling rather mentally and/or emotionally turbulent; so, there's still just all the same multiple different ways it could be interpreted, in my opinion. That constant dichotomy, betwixt genuinely caring for his family, versus chafing at being constantly looked down upon and feeling the need to somehow shake things up &/or prove himself[ or to refuse to be underestimated] or whatever; the one, which could drive him to be be motivated to just genuinely want Rhaenyra, while the other could motivate to want to just use Rhaenyra.) Like, I think half of what makes it so good is the fact that it's pretty much impossible to tell which thing it actually is or not, for sure.. it could honestly go either way .. or it could even just be some jumbled up mess of the combination of it all. & I think I'll probably be a little sad if they lose that by the end of it, honestly.
Well said Honestly, for the reason why he brought her out I think it might be all 3. He wants to spend time with her, possibly because he’s groomer her but possibly just because he likes spending time with her, he wants to show her why it’s important that she gets married, and he knows it’s going to piss off his brother. I’m honestly not sure he thought of sullying her reputation since he said to Viserys that they went to tons of brothels and had to be reminded that she can’t do that. Maybe that was him pretending to be stupid, but he looked too hung over to pretend. Him asking to marry Rhaenyra might have been a political move but it seems very likely that he thought it was the best option for both of them. He obviously hates his wife and wanted to marry the white worm so I don’t think his marriage plans are politically motivated. I think he figured that they could have sex whenever they wanted and talk with each other so it was a win win. Imo he doesn’t seem smart enough to do all the political moves people speculate he was doing, but there are so many motivations that could fit with him in this episode. Only the writers truly know and with all the female perspective talks at the end of the episodes so far, I don’t think we’re going to get much more insight into their “alpha male” archetype
@@traumer9622 aw - Thank you! ((I honestly didn't expect anyone to do so at all, I just wanted to get my thoughts out just for the sake of getting them out of my head or whatever Lol😅😅 😊)) Also, me too; I really like how this show really embraces and leans into the way that people's perspectives and the actual-reality around can so easily not align quite so well as people often tend to think, but especially with Daemon. I suspect the nature of the prequel book[ at least from what I have heard of it] that the show has as a source material to draw from(with it being stories told by unreliable narrators who each tell slightly different versions of the same events) likely really helps with driving that^-^
@@alliew31 Thank you. I pretty much completely agree with you. The only possible hint I think that he _might_ have actually INTENDED for them to be witnessed, so far, is the way that he suddenly uncovered their hair once they first entered the brothel. But I think it's entirely possible that him doing this might just as easily have been because he personally-stupidly-legit feels quite sincerely as if brothels are the one place where he/they/ can always openly and freely be themselves without restriction(s). But, who knows, maybe he was actually grinning evilly triumphantly the whole time his face was hidden against the floor while his brother kicked the shite out of him; it's hard to say, since they didn't actually show us his face at all for most of that time, but it seems unlikely to me. I tend to believe that what Daemon claimed when Otto got him exiled by the king after Rhaenyra's mom and brother died was probably true, and that everyone else perceives him as much more of a conniving threat than he actually even endeavors to be simply because people don't like him and/or they just always live in this constant fear of court politics and deceit and disloyalty/betrayal. I think it's good to talk/think about the female perspective like they do, during the "inside looks", after the episodes.... But, yeah, doing that shouldn't mean neglecting the male perspective entirely either; there should be a bit of both, probably. I think. It should be more about finding a balance, somewhere between &/or a mix of the two things, really. 🙂
I feel like the series finally convinced me that it can be great and this episode felt like a breakthrough. The seeds of political intrigue are starting to bear fruit and we keep learning new depths to the characters while the plot feels like it keeps moving forward. I was also surprised to feel so excited with the events and decisions that happened in this episode, well said! Also I was surprised with how my feelings contrasted to those I have for Rings of Power. I don't hate it... but it felt nowhere near as exciting or interesting. I'm going to continue watching both. I came to Rings of Power with low expectations and haven't really been disappointed, but I came to HoD with a vengance, so jaded, entirely dismissing it... it seemed alright in Ep. 1, but now it brought me all the way back around to be invested and excited. Just as I was for GoT. I wouldn't say it's "as good", but I would say... "not yet".
One of the most surprising elements of the show, for me, is how well it handles the time jumps; the plot advances between 6 months to a couple of years between episodes yet they all feel like they are neccesary and never hinder the narrative. At first I thought they were unnecesary, but I like how it makes all the important events the story tackles feel natural; same with how it shows characters going through a lot of change without it being forced. And it also helps the show distance itself pace-wise from GOT, which was more about seeing a plot unravel slowly, and watching the rutine, day to day lives of the main characters (at least at the beginning), while HOTD is more of a historical epic, spanning several generations.
I think the change of making Alicent less of a straight up villain is commentary on how historians have looked at women. Pretty cool if that was the case
Alicent has absolutely no business feeling betrayed by Rhaenyra lying to her, after she married Rhaenyra's father after her mother was basically murdered lmao.
I haven't seen this take on Daemon and Rheanyra so I'm just going to throw it out there. She tells him in their High Valerian conversation that she doesn't want to marry someone chosen for her, lose her agency and become some babymaker who can die after getting enough sons. I think Daemon asking for her hand in marriage is his solution for her: marry me, I won't make you have children and you'll be free in your marriage. It was a scheming way of getting there, for sure, but he opens her eyes to pleasure and freedom 'in his own way', which shows how much he cares for her (though not necessarily in a romantic way).
For the most part, I think Daemon was genuine when he made reference to the original Aegon when requesting to marry Rheanyra, with him Being Aegon and her being Rhaenys as the second wife he marrys out of love.
They established in previous episodes that despite daemon's faults, he is very loyal to his family. He rebukes others for mocking his brother despite their strained relationship. I think in that moment, his loyalty kicked in and prevented him from doing something truly damaging to his niece. Didn't stop him from trying to take advantage of the rumor, but it did keep him from actually doing it. Who's to say if that will continue in later episodes, tho
If Hollywood explored feminism as artistically as it’s seen in House of Dragons more often, I wouldn’t be so sick of it and I might even believe that the writers believed it themselves. It’s actually show don’t preach for once.
ive been looking forward to your episode about this series so much!!! i was planning on waiting for hotd to finish before binging it but your videos were too tempting and i wante dto experience em
Every Monday I get so exited because a new episode of house of the dragon yea but most importantly I get to listen to the amazing ramblings of Tim as he breaks it down. Can't wait to see what he will notice that will get me thinking differently about the episode 🥰
I think I haven't started watching yet, but your growing enjoyment up through here has finally gotten me to give the show a shot. I'm still a little hesitant from how GoT ended, but I trust your tastes enough to give an honest try.
I think the suggestion with Mysaria is that she and Daemon made sure Rhaenyra was seen in the brothel, so her informant can send the information to Otto. It was a political move from Daemon to ruin Rhaenyra's image and make her more likely to be married to him. That's what I think, at least.
According to the show runners, and this was my impression as well before hearing the behind the scenes if the episode, Daemon stopped out of guilt, cause he didn't wants to hurt Rhaenyra in reality, he does care for her. So when he asks Viserys for her hand he's been honest about wanted her, but Viserys only sees it as Daemon wanting the throne. Contrary to you, i loved how Viserys is portrait in this episode cause he isn't a foolish king, he knows exactly what's going on. He was very right about dismissing Otto, cause what Rhaenyra said it's true, he isn't impartial anymore. We saw last episode how he pressure the king into giving the crown to Aegon, maybe not so much but we can assume that it only continue after that. It's obvious as Rhaenyra points out that he was spying on her, therefore it is very true that Otto wasn't an impartial hand anymore, therefore he couldn't be the hand. By the end of the episode Viserys actually let the dragon out, which is weird for him, but he does it whenever family is involved i loved that. And he is right to realize now that Otto pushed Alicent towards him, giving him another proof that he only wants to better the position of his house which makes even more sense for him to vanish him from the Red Keep
Yeah, Otto isn't the worst schemer, but he definitely has his own agenda. Everyone does, but others can only get a bit of money not a grandson on the throne. The one councilman who keeps vouching to apease the sea snake should be hand
I still think it was a mistake to dismiss Otto... keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. Otto won't stop scheming and still has many friends in the Red keep, and now he has nothing to loose.
this was a great review. This show is something, so much of the scenes are left to interpretation is fantastic and allow people to come up with their opinions. I kinda wish we can read the internal monologues of the characters like in a book, but I get is hard on a tv medium. Overall loved the episode and agree this was focused on the female side of Alicent and Rhaenyra, giving a window into what is like to be a woman during medieval times. So much to be discussed from many scenes where there was barely any dialogue but the actors showcase emotion of those characters outside and internally that you can try interpret.
I think one thing to keep in mind too is religion. Alicent is actually devout where as rhaenyra is agnostic. As you grow up you can either grow to accept people where they are and find ways your religion still would hold them as a good person despite not being where they should be on all proscribed behaviors or you can pull away from them because they are different. This adds another element for Alicent as she was foisted off into this family with “queer customs” that are amoral even if sometimes tolerated for just that family. Once she feels truly against rhaenyre the religious guilt of ever having fought for her, as well as transference for the religious guilt of eventually marrying two of her children together, gets laser focused on Rhaenyra and Daemon
For me with Daemon, how I interpreted the brothel scene was that as much as he does want it, as much as his own desires would bring him to continue bedding his niece and to finish what they started, I saw it as him trying to protect her still. That he pulled away from a desire to not actually tarnish her. He's shown love and affection to her in the prior episodes, and has taken time to try to impress upon her what her duty means and is... and that even though he wants to continue, he cares for her too much to actually tarnish her reputation, and doesn't want her to live with the chaos and mistrust that would follow if she had slept with him - which she then negated by sleeping with Ser Criston. But that in the end, he's seen firsthand how cruel the court can be, and how quickly it turns on its own, and he doesn't want that for her, so he stopped.
I think it was very much two different things going on with Daemon taking Rhaenyra into Flea Bottom. One is I believe he wanted her to see how the common people viewed her so that she would know the truth. And he actually gives her some good advice (some advice I'm pretty sure Tyrion and even Daario gave to Daenerys) about knowing the people you want to rule. The other thing is Daemon taking Rhaenyra into the brothel, where to me, it looks like a few of the sex workers recognized her after he removed her hat. I can't say whether Daemon intended that or if he thought they were far enough within the brothel so that they'd be inconspicuous. Anyway, I think part of Daemon initiating with Rhaenyra was out of lust after seeing how she matured after a few years and also a power move to undermine her succession and maybe improve his own, with his relationship with Viserys repaired. But when Daemon stops, I feel like it's out of genuine love not just for Rhaenyra yet even Viserys too, as he realizes the mistake he's made in undercutting her. And the least he could do in that moment is to not ruin things further by actually taking her virginity. So the next morning, when Daemon is dragged before Viserys, and the rumor is that Daemon defiled Rhaenyra, Daemon sees it as a win-win situation to ask for Rhaenyra's hand. If he's the one who supposedly ruined her, why even deny it? Why not take her to wife? It would actually strengthen her claim, give him power on top of that as king consort, strengthen the Targaryen line, and have all three of them coming out of this situation relatively unscathed. Plus, Daemon has actually caught feelings for Rhaenyra... so even better, she'd be his. Tl;Dr. As he says so himself, Daemon is doing whatever the fuck he wants because he's an absolute mad lad.
You're right. Initially, the characters in HotD did all begin kind of Initially just suppressed under the shadow of the throne and their servitude to it and its king and/or by protocol and formality or whatever else. And gradually, as the episodes have progressed, we are absolutely starting to see each of those characters step increasingly more and more out of that shadow and into their own agency and wants and such. And I really /love/appreciate seeing that, too. ^-^
Thanks for bringing up the exploration of the lack of female agency. I think the short has done a great job in showing many of the ways that this could look. I felt super uncomfortable with the Rhaenyra and Criston Cole scene. The power imbalance was so apparent.
I love how the scene with Criston Cole mirrors Jamies internal conflict when killing Aerys. Jamie had sworn to obey the king: Not standing in his way. He had also sworn to serve the realm: Not let the people suffer a genocide. In the same way, Criston had sworn to serve the princess: Do what she commands him to. He had also sworn to serve the realm: Not take a royal princess's virginity and possibly make her pregnant which may cause political chaos. It's the complicated relationship between duty in theory and in practice.
I interpreted the beat of Daemon pulling away in the Brothel as a response to Rhaenyra taking more agency in her pleasure-she’s more forceful with her hands, more teasing, almost revealing an instinct for it that I don’t think he’s accustomed to in his sexual partners. This imbalance paralleled the beat at Dragonstone for me, where she’s able to back him down and reclaim the egg in a battle of wills. Daemon senses (and fears) that the dragon in her spirit is mightier than his own
But she backed him down and reclaimed the egg, in the first place, by asking him if he wanted her dead / telling him to just kill her right then if he did; so him giving her the egg could easily be seen as being been done out of his genuinely caring for her, too. ...
I was watching some interviews after the episode was over. Someone, I believe it was the director though I could be wrong, referred to Daemon leaving Rhaenyra at the pleasure house as his "impotence." Read into that what you will, I just find that incredibly interesting.
I'm loving this show so much. I hope it doesn't get bogged down by real world politics. I read fire and blood, and I am so excited for some of the scenes to come.
I disagree about the king only being mad because of the political implications. King V seems to be very assimilated into westerosi values, Daemon calls him out on this repeatedly. Constantly reminding him that he is the king and a ****ing dragon.
Just one thing: what happens in the series is not what actually happens but just another version, said by Martin himself. It's not like this is the true story that Martin had in mind.
I said to my friends when I watched the first episode that it wouldn't really be Game of Thrones until at least one instance of mutual intercourse in the book was reframed as a rape scene in the series. I'm still on the fence, but turning ****'s death into an act of murder is definitely a step in the right direction.
Otto had to go! That man was scheming, willing to pump out his daughter and was coming after my guy Daemon. If I never say Otto again, it won’t be a moment too soon (I know he’ll still be lurking). He’s a great character though
This is why I like this show. I completely disagree, Otto has done nothing but serve loyally for all these episodes and years before that. Daemon is a cool character but he is also a narcissistic, power-hungry maniac who would do anything to get the throne (like claiming to have de-flowered his niece) and Otto was trying to do what he thought was best for the Kindoms by blocking Daemon at every turn. Yes he schemed his daughter to queen but the King was already set to remarry and others were trying too, it's not like it would be less weird if Viserys married Laena. All in all I think Otto is a little less Petyr Baelish and a little more Jon Arryn than people give him credit for.
I'm in the middle. Daemon is definitely a loose cannon who can't be trusted with any responsibility, but Otto definitely has his own agenda. The man pretty blatantly pulled on Viserys's heart strings to get him to make the less favorable choice instead of advising him in the best interest of the nation as he should have
The show is really engaging. I’m likely how they are really establishing what a house of cards King Viserys’ house is. Once he goes, everything is going to collapse and they are doing a great job of establishing how it is going to happen. I feel bad for Viserys. The show manages to get it just right that he is a good person (as good as a Targaryen can be), but he is weak and flawed. It is rare to see someone depicted as so critically flawed without making him a villain.
About that secret passage stuff.... I think it will happen at a later point in the story. Since in the books, it happens almost immediately after that event. I think it will happen in the 9th episode of SX. And well, the story will likely last for about four seasons. We at least need more build-up with those characters to genuinely make it satisfying... I mean. *SPOILERS* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I think they will put in the Dragonseeds and the Riverlands conflicts in the early part of S2. And make the Blood & Cheese event coincide with Duskendale and Rook's Rest for E9. And let Battle of the Gullet be E10. To poetically mirror the endings of S1 (Storm's End), and later S3 (Dragon Pit).
Also uncle/niece and cousin marriages weren’t even considered incest in the real world. The worlds population would never have gotten so large if that were considered incest. Most people have incestuous relationships just a couple generations back in their family tree. It was definitely the politics, and maybe her virginity that was the issue, not them being related.
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**People may well be right about Criston Cole not consenting** - I think events from the books may have warped my perception of that scene, and I'll make sure to bring it up if it turns out that. Also, please don't misunderstand me: men also lack agency in this world, but I think there are some areas the show explores that women lack even further.
~ Tim
Do you really have to write down your own name as if we didn't know who wrote the comment?
Aaaa!a
@@balabanasireti 0i008aaa⁰⁰⁰
@@balabanasireti if Tim is ever targeted by the Faceless Men, thats how we'll know😂
I just realized that Viserys is the genetic equivalent of his grandparents’ sibling
Something that's interesting to me about the dynamic between Daemon and Rhaenyra is the frequency with which they use High Valyrian; it speaks to a long-lasting closeness between them to me, and with the marriages that are about to happen I could see them playing into that relationship "behind the scenes."
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS*
People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off.
The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria.
How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto.
Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did.
Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter.
Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith.
Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs.
I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp.
Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches
Ep 1: Otto wins
Ep 4: Daemon wins
Score: 1-1
@@TeamDaemon1980 Only thing is that Viserys doesn’t believe Rhaenyra that they didn’t go all the way. If he did, he wouldn’t have had the tea made. It will be interesting to see if she took it since it’s probably a good idea or if she gave it back to stand firm that she is still a maiden
I don’t see how speaking Valyrian showcases a close bond. What does that have to do with it?
@@SnailHatan they don't do the same thing with other people who presumably could speak it (Vicerys and the Velaryons), it's primarily those two. Consider too that they do this a lot when around other people they know well wouldn't speak it like the kingsguard, the Hightowers, and other high lords or officials of the small council. This doesn't necessarily mean they're trying to be secretive, but people who aren't close typically don't just up and have a conversation in another language right next to or while in a group of people who don't know it if they don't have to.
@@TeamDaemon1980 sorry but why did you respond to me with this rather than posting generally in the comments section? I don't see how this responds to what I originally said. Fine observations, and a perfectly reasonable take on the characters' actions far as I can see, just don't see how it's relevant to my point.
I tought Daemon stopped kissing Rhaeyra for multiple reasons:
Their interactions are always a powerplay, even their very first one (he pulls away the necklace as soon as she shows interest), so I think it was at least partly a powermove to pull away as soon as she got carried away
I think above that he felt guilty when she looked him in the eyes, realizing that he was using his own family as a political pawn (and I believe he is all about family/ Targ superiority)
And I also think he was surprised / taken aback by the intensity of it. I wouldn't go so far as to say he loves her, but there is certaily something there. Maybe that is also the reason why he drank himself into a complete stupor afterwords
Well, according to director he couldnt get it up... Yeah... Why he couldnt, probably all of those reasons you listed, or none...
@@VertFirstQuestion no ,the director literaly said that it was because of guilt
@@asura7915 idk what you are saying no to??? He didnt keep going BECAUSE HE WAS IMPOTENT which stem from him knowing what he was doing is wrong deep down. Is word by word what Showrunner said
@@asura7915 there were two interpretations given, one that it’s because he lost control, the other because he felt guilty. It’s up to you which one is correct, or if neither are.
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS*
People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off.
The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria.
How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto.
Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did.
Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter.
Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith.
Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs.
I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp.
Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches
Ep 1: Otto wins
Ep 4: Daemon wins
Score: 1-1
One of the things I really like is how the relationship between Alicent and Rhaenyra is deteriorating. Despite all her attempts to stick her neck out for Rhaenyra and her rights when it would be SO much easier to vouch for Aegon like everyone else, Alicent finds that Rhaenyra has been acting like a spoilt brat, acting out to get attention and causing problems for everyone else. And the episode goes to lengths to stress how much Viserys has done to try and get Rhaenyra an appropriate match that satisfies her but she still spurns all offers, a situation Alicent never had yet it still isn’t good enough for Rhaenyra. You can see that while Rhaenyra’s actions are understandable as she’s being forced into a situation she doesn’t want, Alicent accepted her situation with diligence and grace and feels a bitter resentment towards Rhaenyra as she gets away with so much that neither she, nor any other girl in the realm, would be able to.
The breakdown in their relationship despite Alicent’s best efforts to keep the family together is so well done, and I love it as much as I hate to see it.
I didnt read that deep into it, but now I'll need to whip out the monocle and watch a bit closer.
Well, Rhaenyra did lose her mother in the predicament that Alicent is put in. Alicent lost her mother too but Rhaenyra's mother's death traumatized her more.
The thing is, for someone who is already trapped... Alicent would likely be grateful to have literally any crumb of freedom she could get, no matter how small.
But Rhaenyra wants more, she doesn't want to simply settle for just making the best out of whatever is. She doesn't want to choose who to marry, because she doesn't want whether she marries or not itself to be a thing which she does not get to choose-even when this is one thing which not even the men in her life have really gotten to choose so freely either; her father married Alicent because he was obligated by his duty to marry again, even Daemon married someone he clearly did not choose or wish to marry out of some political duty that was commanded of him which he could not refuse, and now that Criston has joined the guard he too no longer has total freedom over whether or not he one day ever gets to marry[ .. not to mention at least half the suitors lined up vying for Rhaenyra's on her "tour" weren't there because they really wanted to be there competing for her hand so much as just because their families have obligated them to be there whether they want to be or not].
Honestly, I think that..in a way..Alicent actually reacted the way she did at first to the rumors of what Rhaenyra and Daemon had done because, Alicent's ideas of sex are[ as far as we know so far] wrapped up entirely in just what her own personal experience with marriage has been and nothing else, I actually doubt if she can fathom why any woman would actually voluntarily engage in it outside of the marital obligation to do so..and since Rhaenyra has objected so strongly to the idea of being shackled to marriage, perhaps Alicent personally also perceived that in a way as Rhaenyra being opposed to the idea of being shackled to sex as well, [all those things which perhaps Alicent can actually rather unfortunately and quite intimately entirely understand exactly why someone might wish to never be shackled with ]so maybe the idea that Rhaenyra might have voluntarily shackled herself into sex without being forcibly obligated into it by marital duties could have felt like an unfathomable betrayal to Alicent of everything she believed Rhaenyra to be so intensely opposed to?. ((Or maybe I'm just reading waayyy too much into it, here!🙃 👀 idk!!))
At least That was what I wondered if might have been the case, anyhow, when I was watching the scene where Alicent confronts Rhaenyra about the allegations. (Although, I kind of do wonder also, whether Alicent took a misguided liking at all to Daemon maybe from afar in the first episode or so before her father foisted her at the king instead..🤔🤔 Not sure. 😅)
But maybe Alicent just thought that would be something that Rhaenyra might have told her about or confided in her directly. (Or has feelings for Rhaenyra, herself. Lol) Or just.. can't believe how or why Rhaenyra might endanger everything Rhaenyra currently has so recklessly like that Rhaenyra very nearly through it all away, since Alicent can't see how Rhaenyra feels no more free or respected or 'seen' or listened-to in Rhaenyra's position than Alicent currently does in Alicent's own position.
I think it's difficult to say yet, because we've only just barely started peeling back the layers beyond the surface of what Alicent's personal wants actually are or not. I'm looking forward to hopefully getting to know her a bit better, moving forward, too. ^-^
Very well put
@@TeamDaemon1980 We don't know that.
The Targaryens are a mix of the Ptolemaic dynasty and Hapsburgs
Huh
@@dirtydaveofretford6194 seriously look up and compare the family trees
I guess you have to get Cleopatras and Maria Teresa's sometimes 🤷
@@br8745 to be fair the women of those dynasties were impressive but much like the Targaryens it was still a mesd
True. But it is a weird way to write Habsburger.
His episode really mad me sympathise with Viserys’ frustration with Rhaenys
She clearly wants to be heir, if only because she sees it as the closest thing to proof she has that her father loves her, but she adamantly refuses to do the things an heir or queen are expected to do and makes stupid, reckless decisions while insisting that being the heir and eventually queen should be enough for people to listen to her without playing politics
I like her but she is acting entitled similar to daemon they just believe they deserve the respect and authority without putting any of the work in where viserys is tearing himself apart keeping the fragile power
@@connorhicks1712 She understands that most people respect their family due to their dragons, but doesn’t understand that if you don’t make allies and keep people relatively happy then you’re stuck in constant war.
Also she seems unwilling to admit she’s scared of dying in childbirth like her mother before she can do anything with her life. If her mother had died another way I think she’d be more open to marriage
I'd like to take a moment and just say that I thoroughly enjoy listening to you give your opinions on different pieces of media Tim, even when I don't necessarily know about them myself. You have such a easily understandable way of structuring your arguments and I'm striving to emulate that too!
That's very kind of you to say :D
~ Tim
I very rarely know what he’s talking about but his explanations make everything seem like I’ve been invested for YEARS. Fantastic channel.
House of the Dragon is really showing a masterclass of adaptation. The changes they've made have all, so far, served the story so, so well. First among them, making Rhaenyra and Alicent closer in age and very close childhood friends (to the point that some insist they are actually in love with each other and that is the root of their animosity post Alicent's marriage to Viserys. I personally don't read it like that, but the queer reading does stand). If Alicent was older to Rhaenyra, she wouldn't be able to understand or relate to her experience as much because she would not be in a similar stage of life. Another dimension to this is the fact that she was named heir when she was older, rather than as a young girl in the books. In the books, she always expected to be heir, she was named earlier. Whereas here, she was waiting for a brother and was satisfied with her role as princess. The late change in her status, only then to be challenged with the birth of her half-brother Aegon, makes her position so much more precarious.
Another thing is the fleshing out of Viserys' character. In the book, he really reads more like a spineless, easy to manipulate king who doesn't want to make difficult decisions and lets others talk him into what they want. The Viserys of the show, instead, is moved by self-doubt due to his dragon dreams. He is wrecked with indecision and guilt because the wrong move can literally spell out the end of the world. Otto we always knew was not the lord of Hightower, but the introduction of his older brother and his demand that Aegon be named heir instead, allows us to see that Otto himself is being pressured by greater powers and it's not just his own machinations. The fact that he then applies this pressure to Alicent is nice symmetry.
So far I've been so so impressed with House of the Dragon. They continue to make the nuanced decisions. And I look forward to seeing how they manage the sprawling cast and civil war to come!
This episode is so good. Two scenes solidify it for me.
1. Scene of King and Daemon "breaking up": guards trowing Daemon down on the floor before the thrones and Vyseris showing his anger to the fullest, kicking him, threatening, clearly showing that he is a king, he has a power, and he feels it inside him. We really see a different face of him there, and we also see a weak side of Daemon. Vyseris turned up to be a fascinating character. Also scene was shot beautifully.
2. Scene jf Rhaeynera and Cole being actually so uncomfortable. In the last episode they looked so cute and i started rooting for them, but here we see how hesitant he is, and how strongly she pushes him. With this this level of power difference and how much Cole himself is to lose it does feel like a genuine SA from Rhaeynera side. Not like she has nothing to lose from it, but it is also her choice, while Cole has none. We usually see this sort of stuff with reserved genders. But here it makes perfect sense.
He looks so uncomfortable. He does "choose" to sleep with her, but he tries to stop it and she pushed so much and it's so clear he would rather leave. And, the next day he isn't happy or proud or anything. He looks ashamed and disappointed. I hope they keep following down his reaction to this instead of just dropping it like so many other stories would
I viewed Daemon pulling back as him realizing that his political maneuvering would hurt Rhaenyra. But once the news got out he leaned into it because he might as well.
Not gonna lie, just saw the episode, then I staid in place while waiting for the twothefuture analysis of the episode.
As someone who hasn't read the books, these analysis are amazing because I learn so much and it's so interesting! Also, I've loved the focus on women's perspectives, and how this show handle the reality of women in these worlds. The lack of agency, the clear double standard on sexuality for men and women, the prison of duty. it's amazing
The thing is, though.... refusing to comply with royal demands .. could _also_ potentially ruin Criston too, if she weren't to handle his refusal well. He basically had _zero_ good choices, there. (Especially when he kind of owes her literally everything that he has, to begin with.)
For a bunch of Hapsburgs, they have a good jawline.
GRRM stated that the showrunners have made "improvements" to the book in certain areas, and you can see that. Alicent is now far more of a nuanced and sympathetic character for example. They've done a terrific job, not least supporting the story with excellent writing and direction. Superb show.
I never read fire and blood, but it's very cool to hear about how the show adapts its source material
I love how the auto-subtitles read your New Zealand accent as saying, "Six Six Six" at the beginning :)
Has anyone noticed how since getting married to Viserys, Alicent has only been wearing Targeryan colors? Maybe down the story,she will go start wearing the color green to signify her regaining some agency and showing how her interests are different from the crown
This comment aged well
Joffrey spoils Rhaenyra's fate in GOT, so people can't be that shocked.
Not everyone is gonna remember a throwaway line fromGOT
@@Weeby_historian I'm just saying the information has already been presented. That line and this book have been out for a while. No telling how the showrunners will get us there, but it's not as if this is new information.
@@ArmednotTriggered I’m not really sure what your point is. That people that haven’t read the book shouldn’t want to avoid a spoiler for a story they’re choosing to approach with fresh eyes?
I'd really like to see a comparison between the characterization and worldbuilding in House of the Dragon in contrast to Rings of Power, my perception is that House of the Dragon is a far richer narritive already. Rings of Power has exceeded my expectations, but they were not particularly high. House of the Dragon has vastly exceeded them, but then I probably underestimated it in light of the end of GoT and other spinoffs. I find the distinction in their characterization of women to be really interesting, RoP leant into it in their advertising and related media prior to release, and yet it feels really superficial, whereas HotD didn't really present to that but seems to have loads of depth and interesting explorations in relation to the charaterization of women in their setting.
HotD is showing off here
Honestly the incest is something I can't quite get over. With Game of Thrones I struggled alot with it I just kept seeing the abuse and grooming that occurred and when I engage with the online community and people are going yas for Rhaenyra and Daemon and all I can see is grooming. I watch alot of video essays and one of the points someone made was that anyone that participated in Child Sexual Abuse never get the ending they want. People forget that they age up people in the shows.
People ask me why do I engage in this series anyway and the honest answer is that everyone around me is in this community and are always talking about it and debating it and I don't like how people romanticise it and I feel the need to remind them of modern morals. That yes in historical contests there is concepts of divine rule throughout monarchy societal history. But the health of those families was and has been seriously affected by it and the shipping of young tween with significantly older men and women shouldn't be something fans should engage in and forcing them to have pregnancies from that young a age results in damage and fertility issues and mental health issues.
I feel I have to remind my friends of that and lately I think it's actually getting through to them.
I had the same kind of discussion when Bridgerton came out as when it got to the final conflict of the show my mind jumped instantly to that is sexual assault. And apparently it's even worse in the book. And in both cases the duke apologises to her rather than the other way around.
Like I understand historical context bur the same time we shouldn't be romantising these events on screen we shouldn't be sexualising these kinds of moment of harassment and abuse.
The Sandman extra episode I believe showed an example of it best. It didn't show the assault it implied it. It didn't romanticise the act it didn't sexualising the act but we felt Calliope's pain.
I get it sex sells in media I'm just saying let's make the sex that sells be between two consenting adults and not show and instead imply when it's not and only if it is important for the story. Let's stop sexualising kids and glorifying assault
That shot from behind of Daemon walking towards the throne always makes me smile! I adore Matt Smith's bow legs!
I interpreted Daemon’s impotence as him being caught off guard by Rhaenyra being into it. If sex is power, he can’t stand that she has power over him and can’t go through with it. The relationship (ignoring the incest part) is extremely predatory. Even if Rhaenyra is into it, Daemon’s intent was predatory given the age difference and power dynamic involved.
now do rhaenyra and c.cole
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 Indeed. Complete reversal of a power dynamic and really problematic for a lowly Kingsguard either way he chooses. Rhaenyra ABSOLUTELY could have refused Daemon. She's strong willed, the heir to the Iron Throne, and still a maiden. She had but scream or leave and Daemon would not have pursued. But she wanted it -- give the girl some credit for embracing her agency and stop making her out to be a victim.
Right!? It’s so predatory and gross. Everything Daemon did leading up to the interaction in the pleasure house was grooming behaviour. It was very difficult to watch and would likely be incredibly triggering for anyone who has survived grooming and sexual abuse. I love the political intrigue elements of the show, but the incest/abuse story elements are a huge no for me :/
@@xxMxMurasaki Unfortunately, this show is going to be going places you might not want to follow it based on “Fire and Blood”. Not to give spoilers.
@@sillylittlesheepjax6009 Yeah, that one really rubbed me the wrong way too. He was clearly reluctant and the power dynamic was stacked against him. The vows of chastity and how serious they take them is a huge deal. I'm pretty sure he can be executed for just breaking the oath, let alone breaking it with the princess.
As a fan of Fire and Blood, I'm really looking forward to the end of the show, where we get Grover, Elmo, Kermit, and Oscar Tulley. No, I'm not joking.
I find it interesting that you say Alicent is experiencing “marital rape” while saying Criston Cole was only “hesitant and nervous”. There was far more to suggest that Rhaenyra was coercing Criston into sex than Viserys was Alicent. All that happened to Alicent was a maidservant told her Viserys wanted to see her. Meanwhile, Rhaenyra had to lure Criston in by taking his helmet, kissing him, taking his armor off while he was resistant up until the end. It was purposely shown as something she had to actively lure him into.
And Criston potentially faces far worse consequences for having sex with the princess, and for denying her. At the very least, he would be imprisoned and stripped of his status entirely. Shit Viserys said he would take the eyes of just the **messenger** who delivered the word about Rhaenyra and Daemon. Imagine what he would do to Criston, a kingsguard sworn to celibacy, for defiling the princess and heir.
Alicent, on the other hand, wouldn’t be killed by Viserys for not having sex for one night. Quite a vast difference in power between Criston and Rhaenyra. Not so big a difference between the King and Queen.
Alicent simply can't say no. The rules of this universe are the same ones that in medival europe and back then marital r*pe was not even considered a thing. Wives had a duty to have s*x with their husbands whenever he wanted it, and refusing was not even an option ,no matter how they felt about it.
Targaryen family tree is almost a straight line downwards
The entire episode was Deamons counterpart against Otto. By soiling Rhaenyra's honour he tricked Otto into overstepping his boundaries, forcing him out as hand.
I think the course of events are structured enough that the result of Otto being fired is not simply a butterfly effect.
I took Daemon's withdrawal in the pleasure house to be him not quite being the badass het thinks he is. In other words he was scheming and seductive enough to come up with the plan and just about pull it off. But he saw how deep the betrayal would be to use Rhaenyra like that and just couldn't follow through.
I took it as he got whiskey dick. Sir Christian Cole, on the other hand, was able to perform in bed after what was probably like 10-15 minutes of removing his armour, that is the most underappreciated aspect of this episode
In the after the episode they said it’s because his pee pee don’t work. Whether or not you think that’s because of guilt or whatever is up to you.
*Daemon's* *Revenge* *On* *Otto* *Over* *FAKE* *NEWS*
People need to rewatch the scene when Daemon takes Rhaenyra to the public street orgies. It was planned by Daemon to get caught. You can see a brief scene with Daemon thinking by himself with his hoodie off.
The next scene with him since the scenes are intercut with Alicent, Daemon takes off the beanie that Rhaenyra is wearing. This location is probably close to where Mysaria (White Worm) works or used to work. Then you see Daemon walk away from the sex with Rhaenyra. Then Rhaenyra walks out. A little kid is sitting there who works for Mysaria.
How would the kid know Daemon and Rhaenyra had sex? He didn't see it. He sat near the stairs and recognized Rhaenyra walking out. Then we see a scene between Daemon and Mysaria and Daemon spills out the drink immediately that Mysaria gives him. He probably assumes it's poison or unsafe since he is aware Mysaria is pissed at him. We see the same kid give Mysaria money that's likely from Otto.
Daemon is slick. This was all planned to get Otto fired. This was revenge from Ep 1's "heir for a day" that got Daemon banished from King's Landing for 4 years. It's like a magic trick. The incest scene was our misdirection when what Daemon was really doing was wanting to get caught so Otto would get fired which he did.
Viserys does listen to Rhaenyra and the rumor came from Otto's own mouth. So Rhaenyra points out about Otto's self-interests. Nobody witnessed Daemon and Rhaenyra having sex because it never happened! By firing Otto, he's trying to protect his and his daughter's public perception and showing that Otto is an unreliable source who is trying to slander their family. Blood is still thicker than water here. It's not like Viserys can fire his daughter.
Daemon didn't deny the accusations because he figured Viserys wouldn't believe him any way. And Daemon really doesn't care how others think of him and perhaps he really does want to marry her since the assumptions are that he did deflower her? Who would take her except him, the first man she "slept" with? But Rhaenyra did deny it and she wasn't lying either. Alicent ends up believing her and told Viserys. Alicent overheard her father and is only trying to cover Rhaenyra's *ss. She's against incest being part of The Faith.
Viserys ends up firing Otto for lies which they are. Daemon and Rhaenyra did NOT have sex. Rhaenyra did have sex that night but it wasn't with her uncle. That's not what she was accused for. Otto got fired for his FAKE NEWS. The kid's false eyewitness claims got him fired. Otto needs to hire more accurate reporters. Not some kid "assuming" they did something that never happened while sitting near some stairs.
I bet Mysaria got jealous hearing about it. Hence, the drink she was making to cut down the fog that Daemon made sure to spill out. That used to be her MAN: "Daemon Targaryen. Rider of Caraxes. Wielder of Dark Sister." She misses his red wyrm that used to burn inside her before it went limp.
Daemon vs. Otto's Chess Matches
Ep 1: Otto wins
Ep 4: Daemon wins
Score: 1-1
@@Vee_9001 You do realize , right, that a person's psychological state[ such as feelings of guilt] actually could cause physical performance issues[ like impotency] too ?
@@TeamDaemon1980 too many holes in that theory. Daemon had no way of knowing who the information would go to or how it would end up. In addition, Daemon isn’t exactly a game player in that way. He’s too brash, impulsive, emotional, and straightforward.
Personally I believe he was trying to play the game by “ruining” Rhaenyra, but at the last minute he realized he couldn’t do it. Again, he’s not a good manipulator; that’s why he keeps losing at the game.
Daemon goes to great lengths to reconnect with his brother and seek his favor, but the moment Viserys gets displeased with him, Daemon gets so defensive he will do or say anything to spite Viserys. Including straight up lying about what happened between him and his niece in a way that is guaranteed to harm her. A very interesting sibling dynamic.
I read Daemon’s withdrawal as him getting frustrated with his own sexual impotency (erectile dysfunction).
He starts kissing her and it’s getting more intense, but then when it’s time to “couple”, as it were, he slows, then stops, then pulls back a bit even though Rhaenyra is still into it, as if he’s realizing what’s happening to him. He eventually hits the wall in frustration, and then leaves her in a fit of shame, to go drink himself into oblivion.
I believe in the first episode when we see him in the brothel, it’s implied that he was having difficulty then too.
This would also explain why his wife still isn’t pregnant.
Well, we also saw moments before where he did not seem to be having any issues performing at all, too? And the moments when we did see him struggle with it, I think, have all of those moments been pretty psychologically turbulent and fraught moments[ for him] as well?? (If I'm not mis-remembering something here?) So, I think it's still possible that some conflicting motivations and feelings or such at war in him could also be at fault too, somewhat? (But maybe that's just me.)
Well, Daemon's wife still not being pregnant is most probably due to him actually never being in the Vale...
@@7Nebulae7 Exactly! He refers to the sheep in the Vale as being more attractive than the women. Daemon later demonstrates with both of his wives that he has no problem fathering children when he's attracted to the women.
I fucking loved this episode. Although it was mostly talking, it showed so much and i love that.
I fucking loved this comment. Although it was mostly words it said so much and I love it .
@@Will_Hallett_Art hehehe good one
I didnt really notice how it was in episodes 2 and 3 but Daemon's hair this episode was SO MUCH BETTER than in episode 1
Having read Fire and Blood before the series, I’d been talking a big game about how the incest didn’t really bother me anymore - specifically on the Targaryen side of things, call me an exceptionalist I suppose. And then the Daemon and Rhaenyra stuff made me really uncomfortable, so that’s good to know about myself, really, “Still not okay with incest”. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an episode of something with so much sex that made me so deeply uncomfortable at all points - still a little weirded out at the Doctor getting some, the incest, Alicent clearly disassociating and self-harming while with Viserys, and then with Rhaenyra and Criston Cole… I thought that was going to be a cute little palate cleanser, after all the bad, because they had such sweet chemistry before this. But he looks so miserable and beaten down pretty much the whole time, like we’re just watching Rhaenyra assault her bodyguard.
Regarding your spoiler section (and I’ll be discussing spoilers here too, fair warning anyone who hasn’t read the book), I did the Leo meme when that happened, nice little bit of foreshadowing! I also thought they were hinting at something when, immediately after revealing the hidden passages in the Red Keep, they showed rats hanging out in a dragon skull. That must have been a nod to Blood and Cheese, right?
In an episode with so many great scenes, I think my favourite has to be the final scene with Viserys and Otto where he is removed as Hand.
It is just two phenomenal actors honing their craft by putting these two extremely flawed yet somehow still likeable characters up against one another as you understand why Viserys has turned against Otto but you also can’t help but feel bad for Otto as while he is devious and self-serving, EVERYONE in this city is, and what gets him fired wasn’t his underhanded scheming but the one time he told the unambiguous truth when he had nothing to do with the events in question.
Every second of the scene was just a masterclass of acting and I was utterly drawn to the screen; a superb job from the actors, writers and director.
_(The only complaint I’d have is that it’s weird Baelon’s time as hand has been reduced from nine years to five days? I don’t really see the point of that but again, lore nitpick. 😅)_
You copy pasted your comment from Knightswatch.
@@frankie3010 and other places..
Perhaps they are saying that his time as the hand was extended in the historical accounts because of Viserys' unhappiness/displeasure about it[ and his implied suspicions that Otto might have caused it / thus "robbed" it from Viserys' father], as it was expressed in this episode? 🤔🤔😅🤷♀️👀
But Otto did NOT tell Viserys the unambiguous, quite the opposite. He told the king that Daemon and Rhayneara had intercourse, which was false as we saw what really happened. His problem was trusting information from a child who only saw them go in together.
The fortune teller having no eyes def was also a ref to Daemon’s death, as he dies plunging his sword into Aemond one eye’s one good eye.
I watched this series because of your reviews and I loved it. I also liked the details of the lack of interaction between Alicent and her biological children, especially Aegon, her oldest. She was pushed into a marriage, experiences marital rape, and was very young through all of it. Even though later *spoilers*
she shows that she’s always loved her son when he doubts her, she had a hard time showing that because she was basically a teen mother in a loveless marriage with extreme pressure all around her. In real life as well, a lack of a mother’s love turns sons into bad people who harass, hoard, and rape others in search for a love their missing and that’s exactly what Aegon turns into. It’s sad but it’s a good detail
I think Daemon definitely had a lot of things going through his head. I think at first he did bring her out to show her how the people felt about her. It might have been to endear her to him, but it seemed like initially he did genuinely want to help. I think his decision to try to take advantage of her was partially to spite his brother and partially because he does find her attractive after not seeing her for 3 years. I think he stopped because when she turned back around it forced him to acknowledge who she was. Despite everything I think he does care for her in some twisted way. I don't think he offered to marry her to get closer to the throne. I think he does enjoy spending time with her and wants to advise her. Still messed up on many different layers, but I do think there's affection in there.
Daemon likes worms I guess. The Blood Wyrm & The White Worm. ahaha just kinda cool they're both connected to *him*.
It is VERY refreshing to be invested in characters again.
You really broke down one of the aspects I loved most about this episode; the women, the literal and figurative discussion of power and agency in both the kingdom and in a sexual encounter, the consistent and every growing greyness of ALL characters as people are (universally) morally ambiguous.
As a side note, I also appreciated the thoughtful and nuanced direction of the intimate scenes this episode, but in everything else I felt this was the WEAKEST episode aesthetically. Lots of unappealing framing and some really flat lighting.
Daemon even just taking Rhaenyra out there, in the first place, could be seen in so many different ways. Like, as either...him just intentionally setting her up to be in a reputationally precarious situation &/or simply wanting to get close to her just to get back at the king..or him just genuinely hearing what she's confided in him about wanting her freedom and not wanting to be married and genuinely caring about her and wanting to show her that there really is potentially more to sex or marriage than just something to be feared or resented(&/or that even if it is an awful marriage she didn't necessarily have to be just totally shackled to it without any respite)[ for her own benefit and perhaps even as well as for his brother's benefit since the king actually wants her to choose to marry]..OR him just genuinely kind of feeling a connection &/or draw to her personally for basically this entire series thus far[ whether you read that as anything deeper or just read it as superficial lust or hunger for power or whatever].
Even him refusing to defend himself against the king's accusations of defiling her and/or him asking for her to be wifed to him could be seen in multiple different ways.
I mean, we have seen his brother constantly approach these conversations with a mind that's pretty much already made up every single time and even outright declaring "don't even deny it" like it already doesn't matter what Daemon says he's already condemned because the king always believes the words of everyone else over Daemon's own words-so maybe Daemon's legit just tired of constantly getting slapped down every time when he almost really does just want to close the distance between them, so why even bother trying anyway, even though maybe he really genuinely did just miss home or his brother and all like he told Rhaenyra he did. Or it could be because he wanted to, even though he didn't actually manage it, so that makes him feel guilty like he deserves whatever the king throws at him. (I mean, maybe it's not being related that makes him feel guilt obviously, but like the fact that he's torn between wanting to use her and genuinely wanting her; or maybe he took her there just intending to open her eyes[ &/or to sully her reputation], not actually intending to want to follow through with actually doing anything with her, until he did end up wanting to..yet ultimately still couldn't. [ ..I mean its totally ambiguous if he uncovered their hair when they first entered there because he actually wanted them to be recognized or because of how he personally sees brothels as a kind of haven in which they can be more free to be themselves without restraint. Or what ? . ...] I dunno.) Or maybe he was just opportunistically seizing the moment to rub it in his brother's face, possibly having planned it all just to get back at the king or get the king's attention like this in the first place.
Maybe he even was, in his own way, legit just trying to spare Rhaenyra the unwanted marriage fate she's clearly told him she dreads-thinking he at least could give her the freedom that she actually wants to keep or whatever more than any other husband probably might. Or maybe he's just making his move trying to grab for the throne and/or get at the king.
Or maybe he does just legit kind of like and/or want her[ for himself], and want to be with/around her[, not just as a political pawn]; either because she has 'matured' to please the eyes, or because she's the one person who has always kind of understood him and never really scorned him or his company before then.
So, of course, there are any number of differing ways to interpret why he started kissing her and why he stopped as well.
(But if you watch the "inside the episode" bit....where showrunner, directors, and actors/actresses talk about behind-the-scenes stuff-they say Daemon had a moment of impotence. Although, personally, I think every time we've seen Daemon struggle with that before...it's been when he's feeling rather mentally and/or emotionally turbulent; so, there's still just all the same multiple different ways it could be interpreted, in my opinion. That constant dichotomy, betwixt genuinely caring for his family, versus chafing at being constantly looked down upon and feeling the need to somehow shake things up &/or prove himself[ or to refuse to be underestimated] or whatever; the one, which could drive him to be be motivated to just genuinely want Rhaenyra, while the other could motivate to want to just use Rhaenyra.)
Like, I think half of what makes it so good is the fact that it's pretty much impossible to tell which thing it actually is or not, for sure.. it could honestly go either way .. or it could even just be some jumbled up mess of the combination of it all. & I think I'll probably be a little sad if they lose that by the end of it, honestly.
I can't believe I just read all of that ^^
But you make some really good points. I love how he is pretty much an enigma
Well said
Honestly, for the reason why he brought her out I think it might be all 3. He wants to spend time with her, possibly because he’s groomer her but possibly just because he likes spending time with her, he wants to show her why it’s important that she gets married, and he knows it’s going to piss off his brother. I’m honestly not sure he thought of sullying her reputation since he said to Viserys that they went to tons of brothels and had to be reminded that she can’t do that. Maybe that was him pretending to be stupid, but he looked too hung over to pretend. Him asking to marry Rhaenyra might have been a political move but it seems very likely that he thought it was the best option for both of them. He obviously hates his wife and wanted to marry the white worm so I don’t think his marriage plans are politically motivated. I think he figured that they could have sex whenever they wanted and talk with each other so it was a win win. Imo he doesn’t seem smart enough to do all the political moves people speculate he was doing, but there are so many motivations that could fit with him in this episode. Only the writers truly know and with all the female perspective talks at the end of the episodes so far, I don’t think we’re going to get much more insight into their “alpha male” archetype
@@traumer9622 aw - Thank you! ((I honestly didn't expect anyone to do so at all, I just wanted to get my thoughts out just for the sake of getting them out of my head or whatever Lol😅😅 😊)) Also, me too; I really like how this show really embraces and leans into the way that people's perspectives and the actual-reality around can so easily not align quite so well as people often tend to think, but especially with Daemon. I suspect the nature of the prequel book[ at least from what I have heard of it] that the show has as a source material to draw from(with it being stories told by unreliable narrators who each tell slightly different versions of the same events) likely really helps with driving that^-^
@@alliew31 Thank you.
I pretty much completely agree with you. The only possible hint I think that he _might_ have actually INTENDED for them to be witnessed, so far, is the way that he suddenly uncovered their hair once they first entered the brothel. But I think it's entirely possible that him doing this might just as easily have been because he personally-stupidly-legit feels quite sincerely as if brothels are the one place where he/they/ can always openly and freely be themselves without restriction(s). But, who knows, maybe he was actually grinning evilly triumphantly the whole time his face was hidden against the floor while his brother kicked the shite out of him; it's hard to say, since they didn't actually show us his face at all for most of that time, but it seems unlikely to me. I tend to believe that what Daemon claimed when Otto got him exiled by the king after Rhaenyra's mom and brother died was probably true, and that everyone else perceives him as much more of a conniving threat than he actually even endeavors to be simply because people don't like him and/or they just always live in this constant fear of court politics and deceit and disloyalty/betrayal.
I think it's good to talk/think about the female perspective like they do, during the "inside looks", after the episodes.... But, yeah, doing that shouldn't mean neglecting the male perspective entirely either; there should be a bit of both, probably. I think. It should be more about finding a balance, somewhere between &/or a mix of the two things, really. 🙂
I feel like the series finally convinced me that it can be great and this episode felt like a breakthrough. The seeds of political intrigue are starting to bear fruit and we keep learning new depths to the characters while the plot feels like it keeps moving forward.
I was also surprised to feel so excited with the events and decisions that happened in this episode, well said! Also I was surprised with how my feelings contrasted to those I have for Rings of Power. I don't hate it... but it felt nowhere near as exciting or interesting. I'm going to continue watching both.
I came to Rings of Power with low expectations and haven't really been disappointed, but I came to HoD with a vengance, so jaded, entirely dismissing it... it seemed alright in Ep. 1, but now it brought me all the way back around to be invested and excited. Just as I was for GoT. I wouldn't say it's "as good", but I would say... "not yet".
One of the most surprising elements of the show, for me, is how well it handles the time jumps; the plot advances between 6 months to a couple of years between episodes yet they all feel like they are neccesary and never hinder the narrative. At first I thought they were unnecesary, but I like how it makes all the important events the story tackles feel natural; same with how it shows characters going through a lot of change without it being forced. And it also helps the show distance itself pace-wise from GOT, which was more about seeing a plot unravel slowly, and watching the rutine, day to day lives of the main characters (at least at the beginning), while HOTD is more of a historical epic, spanning several generations.
I think the change of making Alicent less of a straight up villain is commentary on how historians have looked at women. Pretty cool if that was the case
Alicent has absolutely no business feeling betrayed by Rhaenyra lying to her, after she married Rhaenyra's father after her mother was basically murdered lmao.
Wow I love this you really have managed to put this type of violence and power struggle into words
I haven't seen this take on Daemon and Rheanyra so I'm just going to throw it out there. She tells him in their High Valerian conversation that she doesn't want to marry someone chosen for her, lose her agency and become some babymaker who can die after getting enough sons. I think Daemon asking for her hand in marriage is his solution for her: marry me, I won't make you have children and you'll be free in your marriage. It was a scheming way of getting there, for sure, but he opens her eyes to pleasure and freedom 'in his own way', which shows how much he cares for her (though not necessarily in a romantic way).
Loved this episode! Great breakdown!
For the most part, I think Daemon was genuine when he made reference to the original Aegon when requesting to marry Rheanyra, with him Being Aegon and her being Rhaenys as the second wife he marrys out of love.
Still loving these videos Tim. I love your perspective, ypu definitely talk about these episodes differently than most ASOIF ccs which is also nice
They established in previous episodes that despite daemon's faults, he is very loyal to his family. He rebukes others for mocking his brother despite their strained relationship. I think in that moment, his loyalty kicked in and prevented him from doing something truly damaging to his niece. Didn't stop him from trying to take advantage of the rumor, but it did keep him from actually doing it. Who's to say if that will continue in later episodes, tho
The show is getting so much better now that the characters are making terrible personal decisions.
If Hollywood explored feminism as artistically as it’s seen in House of Dragons more often, I wouldn’t be so sick of it and I might even believe that the writers believed it themselves.
It’s actually show don’t preach for once.
Thanks for a fantastic walk-through of this episode.
Hey Tim, than you very much for those videos. You really help in appreciating the show even more.
ive been looking forward to your episode about this series so much!!! i was planning on waiting for hotd to finish before binging it but your videos were too tempting and i wante dto experience em
Every Monday I get so exited because a new episode of house of the dragon yea but most importantly I get to listen to the amazing ramblings of Tim as he breaks it down. Can't wait to see what he will notice that will get me thinking differently about the episode 🥰
I think I haven't started watching yet, but your growing enjoyment up through here has finally gotten me to give the show a shot. I'm still a little hesitant from how GoT ended, but I trust your tastes enough to give an honest try.
I think the suggestion with Mysaria is that she and Daemon made sure Rhaenyra was seen in the brothel, so her informant can send the information to Otto. It was a political move from Daemon to ruin Rhaenyra's image and make her more likely to be married to him. That's what I think, at least.
I just have to say that you have some of the best takes when it comes to HOTD
“Losing agency” be ause dying for some random lord in his wars is so free
Its a classical case of only seing one persoective
According to the show runners, and this was my impression as well before hearing the behind the scenes if the episode, Daemon stopped out of guilt, cause he didn't wants to hurt Rhaenyra in reality, he does care for her. So when he asks Viserys for her hand he's been honest about wanted her, but Viserys only sees it as Daemon wanting the throne.
Contrary to you, i loved how Viserys is portrait in this episode cause he isn't a foolish king, he knows exactly what's going on. He was very right about dismissing Otto, cause what Rhaenyra said it's true, he isn't impartial anymore. We saw last episode how he pressure the king into giving the crown to Aegon, maybe not so much but we can assume that it only continue after that. It's obvious as Rhaenyra points out that he was spying on her, therefore it is very true that Otto wasn't an impartial hand anymore, therefore he couldn't be the hand. By the end of the episode Viserys actually let the dragon out, which is weird for him, but he does it whenever family is involved i loved that. And he is right to realize now that Otto pushed Alicent towards him, giving him another proof that he only wants to better the position of his house which makes even more sense for him to vanish him from the Red Keep
Yeah, Otto isn't the worst schemer, but he definitely has his own agenda. Everyone does, but others can only get a bit of money not a grandson on the throne. The one councilman who keeps vouching to apease the sea snake should be hand
I still think it was a mistake to dismiss Otto... keep your friends close, but keep your enemies closer. Otto won't stop scheming and still has many friends in the Red keep, and now he has nothing to loose.
alicent and nyra's relationship fucking KILLS ME. i love them so much. i desperately need a fanfic where they run away together on dragonback.
this was a great review. This show is something, so much of the scenes are left to interpretation is fantastic and allow people to come up with their opinions. I kinda wish we can read the internal monologues of the characters like in a book, but I get is hard on a tv medium. Overall loved the episode and agree this was focused on the female side of Alicent and Rhaenyra, giving a window into what is like to be a woman during medieval times. So much to be discussed from many scenes where there was barely any dialogue but the actors showcase emotion of those characters outside and internally that you can try interpret.
I love this video! Possibly my favorite of yours. We can use it in class next semester. Thank you!
I think one thing to keep in mind too is religion. Alicent is actually devout where as rhaenyra is agnostic. As you grow up you can either grow to accept people where they are and find ways your religion still would hold them as a good person despite not being where they should be on all proscribed behaviors or you can pull away from them because they are different. This adds another element for Alicent as she was foisted off into this family with “queer customs” that are amoral even if sometimes tolerated for just that family. Once she feels truly against rhaenyre the religious guilt of ever having fought for her, as well as transference for the religious guilt of eventually marrying two of her children together, gets laser focused on Rhaenyra and Daemon
For me with Daemon, how I interpreted the brothel scene was that as much as he does want it, as much as his own desires would bring him to continue bedding his niece and to finish what they started, I saw it as him trying to protect her still. That he pulled away from a desire to not actually tarnish her.
He's shown love and affection to her in the prior episodes, and has taken time to try to impress upon her what her duty means and is... and that even though he wants to continue, he cares for her too much to actually tarnish her reputation, and doesn't want her to live with the chaos and mistrust that would follow if she had slept with him - which she then negated by sleeping with Ser Criston.
But that in the end, he's seen firsthand how cruel the court can be, and how quickly it turns on its own, and he doesn't want that for her, so he stopped.
Can we get a shoutout for the kid suitor absolutely wrecking the guy heckling him at the courtship hearing XD
I can't wait for aemond one eye to show up
I think it was very much two different things going on with Daemon taking Rhaenyra into Flea Bottom. One is I believe he wanted her to see how the common people viewed her so that she would know the truth. And he actually gives her some good advice (some advice I'm pretty sure Tyrion and even Daario gave to Daenerys) about knowing the people you want to rule.
The other thing is Daemon taking Rhaenyra into the brothel, where to me, it looks like a few of the sex workers recognized her after he removed her hat. I can't say whether Daemon intended that or if he thought they were far enough within the brothel so that they'd be inconspicuous. Anyway, I think part of Daemon initiating with Rhaenyra was out of lust after seeing how she matured after a few years and also a power move to undermine her succession and maybe improve his own, with his relationship with Viserys repaired. But when Daemon stops, I feel like it's out of genuine love not just for Rhaenyra yet even Viserys too, as he realizes the mistake he's made in undercutting her. And the least he could do in that moment is to not ruin things further by actually taking her virginity.
So the next morning, when Daemon is dragged before Viserys, and the rumor is that Daemon defiled Rhaenyra, Daemon sees it as a win-win situation to ask for Rhaenyra's hand. If he's the one who supposedly ruined her, why even deny it? Why not take her to wife? It would actually strengthen her claim, give him power on top of that as king consort, strengthen the Targaryen line, and have all three of them coming out of this situation relatively unscathed. Plus, Daemon has actually caught feelings for Rhaenyra... so even better, she'd be his.
Tl;Dr. As he says so himself, Daemon is doing whatever the fuck he wants because he's an absolute mad lad.
You're right. Initially, the characters in HotD did all begin kind of Initially just suppressed under the shadow of the throne and their servitude to it and its king and/or by protocol and formality or whatever else. And gradually, as the episodes have progressed, we are absolutely starting to see each of those characters step increasingly more and more out of that shadow and into their own agency and wants and such. And I really /love/appreciate seeing that, too. ^-^
Loving the HotD content!
Love your analyses
Wait till Alicent's children marry each other.
I love watching analysis of TV shows I don't watch based on books I didn't read
Thanks for bringing up the exploration of the lack of female agency. I think the short has done a great job in showing many of the ways that this could look. I felt super uncomfortable with the Rhaenyra and Criston Cole scene. The power imbalance was so apparent.
I love how thumbnail out of context is hilarious especially if you don't know who Tim is
I love how the scene with Criston Cole mirrors Jamies internal conflict when killing Aerys. Jamie had sworn to obey the king: Not standing in his way. He had also sworn to serve the realm: Not let the people suffer a genocide. In the same way, Criston had sworn to serve the princess: Do what she commands him to. He had also sworn to serve the realm: Not take a royal princess's virginity and possibly make her pregnant which may cause political chaos. It's the complicated relationship between duty in theory and in practice.
I interpreted the beat of Daemon pulling away in the Brothel as a response to Rhaenyra taking more agency in her pleasure-she’s more forceful with her hands, more teasing, almost revealing an instinct for it that I don’t think he’s accustomed to in his sexual partners. This imbalance paralleled the beat at Dragonstone for me, where she’s able to back him down and reclaim the egg in a battle of wills. Daemon senses (and fears) that the dragon in her spirit is mightier than his own
But she backed him down and reclaimed the egg, in the first place, by asking him if he wanted her dead / telling him to just kill her right then if he did; so him giving her the egg could easily be seen as being been done out of his genuinely caring for her, too. ...
Rheanyra also wasn't wholly lying to Alicent in her pledge. she swore on Aemma's memory that she hadn't slept with Daemon.
1:05 Yeah! I really related to that scene. Felt like me when I’m trying dating apps again.
Perfect breakdown. Hit all the points I was confused about and also left me feeling... gross
I am so glad your videos exist. This is the only way I'm going to watch House of the Dragon.
I was watching some interviews after the episode was over. Someone, I believe it was the director though I could be wrong, referred to Daemon leaving Rhaenyra at the pleasure house as his "impotence." Read into that what you will, I just find that incredibly interesting.
Genius thumbnail design
I'm loving this show so much. I hope it doesn't get bogged down by real world politics. I read fire and blood, and I am so excited for some of the scenes to come.
Another excellent video!
I disagree about the king only being mad because of the political implications. King V seems to be very assimilated into westerosi values, Daemon calls him out on this repeatedly. Constantly reminding him that he is the king and a ****ing dragon.
Just one thing: what happens in the series is not what actually happens but just another version, said by Martin himself. It's not like this is the true story that Martin had in mind.
Rhaenyra never technically lied to Alicent I don't think. She just never mentioned Cristan Cole
This was, by far, my favorite episode so far. ^-^
8:51 I mean, it's not _that_ much of a spoiler if you've watched Game of Thrones. Joffrey literally talks about this at one point.
I said to my friends when I watched the first episode that it wouldn't really be Game of Thrones until at least one instance of mutual intercourse in the book was reframed as a rape scene in the series.
I'm still on the fence, but turning ****'s death into an act of murder is definitely a step in the right direction.
Otto had to go! That man was scheming, willing to pump out his daughter and was coming after my guy Daemon. If I never say Otto again, it won’t be a moment too soon (I know he’ll still be lurking). He’s a great character though
This is why I like this show. I completely disagree, Otto has done nothing but serve loyally for all these episodes and years before that. Daemon is a cool character but he is also a narcissistic, power-hungry maniac who would do anything to get the throne (like claiming to have de-flowered his niece) and Otto was trying to do what he thought was best for the Kindoms by blocking Daemon at every turn. Yes he schemed his daughter to queen but the King was already set to remarry and others were trying too, it's not like it would be less weird if Viserys married Laena. All in all I think Otto is a little less Petyr Baelish and a little more Jon Arryn than people give him credit for.
I'm in the middle. Daemon is definitely a loose cannon who can't be trusted with any responsibility, but Otto definitely has his own agenda. The man pretty blatantly pulled on Viserys's heart strings to get him to make the less favorable choice instead of advising him in the best interest of the nation as he should have
Take a shot everytime the word “agency” is spoken 💪💪💪
Great title
The show is really engaging. I’m likely how they are really establishing what a house of cards King Viserys’ house is. Once he goes, everything is going to collapse and they are doing a great job of establishing how it is going to happen.
I feel bad for Viserys. The show manages to get it just right that he is a good person (as good as a Targaryen can be), but he is weak and flawed. It is rare to see someone depicted as so critically flawed without making him a villain.
About that secret passage stuff....
I think it will happen at a later point in the story. Since in the books, it happens almost immediately after that event. I think it will happen in the 9th episode of SX. And well, the story will likely last for about four seasons. We at least need more build-up with those characters to genuinely make it satisfying... I mean.
*SPOILERS*
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I think they will put in the Dragonseeds and the Riverlands conflicts in the early part of S2. And make the Blood & Cheese event coincide with Duskendale and Rook's Rest for E9. And let Battle of the Gullet be E10. To poetically mirror the endings of S1 (Storm's End), and later S3 (Dragon Pit).
Daemon stopped because he sort of lost his vigor. Like he did earlier in the season
Also uncle/niece and cousin marriages weren’t even considered incest in the real world. The worlds population would never have gotten so large if that were considered incest. Most people have incestuous relationships just a couple generations back in their family tree. It was definitely the politics, and maybe her virginity that was the issue, not them being related.
" if your family tree does not fork, then you might be a Targaryen." 😜