Really? I don't really like her. It was her father that honesty started this, and now he has convinced his daughter that Rhaenyra is going to kill her children? There's no reason to think that at this point she doesn't seem like a Cercei.
@@ihatepower4580 Yeah no doubt, but she still doesn't seem that bad. Daemon probably would do that but at this point he isn't the heir. Though they are Targaryen's so they might get together lol they've already showed some "interest" in each other.
Paddy has been doing a phenomenal job of portraying Viserys, such a tragic character who just wants his family and the realm to get along. He's so much more interesting than the gluttonous, powerless king that he's portrayed as in the book.
@@momomomocensoredbyyoutube9085 I am so conflicted, I want to like him, he is so i teresting, but he triggers me like hell. I hate bad parents with a passion and his generell disregard for other people's feelings and all... His queen's fate traumatised me
Hi Tim, so House Hightower’s colors are white and grey (per their sigil of a white watchtower on a smoke-grey field), both in the books and the show from what I’ve seen. Strictly speaking, green isn’t one of their House colors, as you noted, but it has significance to the House because it’s the color the Hightower beacon fire turns when the Lord summons his banners to war (as noted by Larys Strong). This is a book detail, by the way (see page 84 of *Fire and Blood* stating that the beacon fire turned “a baleful green” to summon the Hightower banners), not a show fabrication (though I do love that the show vindicated my analysis that Book!Alicent wore green to symbolically call her faction of the court to war against Rhaenyra). By wearing green, Alicent not only announced her allegiance to House Hightower over House Targaryen (she arguably could have done that by wearing one of her actual House colors), she announced that she’s ready for *war.* She’s ready to fight for Aegon’s right to sit the Iron Throne, and she’s done sitting on the sidelines.
I had to dig through *Fire and Blood* to find that mention of the green flame, but I couldn’t figure out why Book!Alicent would wear green when it *isn’t* one of her House colors. I figured this was GRRM we’re talking about, he who created a world where colors always have significance, so there had to be a reason. Before this episode, my analysis that green dress=green flame=Alicent calling her allies to war was just a theory, so it tickled me to no end that the show vindicated me. And given that GRRM is so involved with the show, I choose to believe that must have been his intended meaning as well.
P.S. Alicent is my favorite, too. I absolutely love how they’ve handled her character, fleshing out the evil stepmother archetype of the book and showing us how she got to the point where she was willing to help plunge the Kingdoms into civil war. Alicent has never been a bad person, but she’s also always been very canny and pragmatic. In the very the first episode, she was the one showing concern for Rhaenyra’s position should Queen Aemma have a son. She’s well aware of the crappy patriarchy she lives in and all that entails. While personal loyalty to Rhaenyra kept her supporting her dear friend’s claim for years (plus, by supporting a ruling queen she’s low key supporting women’s rights/equality), we’ve watched that loyalty slowly be chipped away. Rhaenyra lying to her coupled with the very valid reminder that all of her children will be in danger if Rhaenyra takes the throne was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Regardless of whatever lingering feelings of friendship she may have for Rhaenyra, she’s accepted the fact that Rhaenyra’s ascension pretty much guarantees her children’s deaths since the realm would always be looking to Aegon. Alicent Hightower is a pragmatic woman, and she recognizes that this will become a fight for survival. And she sure as hell isn’t going to go down without a fight. Gah, I love her and how freaking tragic her life is. Also, those looks she exchanged with her family, the way they all stood for her to low key force everyone else to do the same? They know what green means ;)
I think Criston proposal to elope was more to restore his idea of honor than out of love for Rhaenyra. Like he says he tarnished his white cloak, the only thing he has to his name and maybe marrying her would restore some of his honor after he took her virginity. So for that reason it didn't feel like I was missing development in their relationship, it's exactly like we left it last episode.
@@RoamingAdhocrat yeah, which is why the writers made a point of making him say right after that this marriage is his way of trying to restore his honor. He's in many ways like Robb from the books. He takes Jeyne's virginity, messes up, and in a fit of guilt, takes her as his wife to protect her honor and his own. And he faces the consequences. Same here except in reverse. Rhaenyra dishonoring Criston will have serious consequences for her run the future.
RIP Lady Rhea Royce, who appeared for all of one scene and spent it being the most badass person in the seven kingdoms. How could anyone not love this woman? She deserved so much better than Daemon.
This is why I have such high hopes for the show now. Through clever casting and writing and acting they made a one scene tragedy where a character with endearing qualities and potential is sacrificed to finally hammer home for any doubters that Daemon is indeed a monster who cares only about himself.
Was she a bully or a woman scorned by a man who outwardly insults her and sleeps around? There is enough evidence that both sides could be argued as being possible, but not enough evidence to definitively claim one side being right or wrong. It’s possible that they both hated each other for valid reasons.
I saw the lobster bit as symbolic of how Alicent is seeing Viserys: shaking hands, struggling, growing infirmity, possibly gluttonous? Her growing dissatisfaction with her husband.
I'd say they were very good at making Daemon clear as the monster after so much charisma lured us to like him despite his flaws and with that same skill they made Otto Hightower seem so ambitious and manipulative at first but now also so very human and caring about his work, his king and his daughter. They just got the best actors for these complex roles.
I disagree on the feelings Ser Criston has for Rhaenyra - I'm certain he doesn't love her. There might be some feelings, but ultimately his marriage offer is more about restoring his own sense of honour than anything else. He thinks he's soiled his white cloak for her and the only way that could have been worth it is if she would be willing to run away with him.
Is it just me or does Ser Criston’s complete overkill in his fight with Joffrey seems to mirror Rhanyera’s fight with the boar from their first night alone together.
"Atop the Hightower, the great beacon fire turned a baleful green as Lord Martyn Hightower called his banners." Sons of the Dragon chapter in Fire and Blood.
I see Viserys’ eating as a form of foreshadowing to what happens at the ceremony. Seeing him so vigorously and harshly go at his meal is like Ser Criston on Joffrey. And how both were so focused on one thing that they ignored the bigger picture. Seeing the meal spoiled at the end of the episode reflects how the evening went, the rat drinking blood like it’s wine.
Interesting analysis. I personally took it as a manifestation of his weak rule, knowing that tensions were rising but directing his frustration and attention elsewhere (the crab/lobster here) while everything around him threatens to boil over. Rather than speaking up and creating order he vents out his frustration on benign things (which also ties into his drinking)
I'm actually really stoked for this shift in Criston's allegiances, because we saw how all or nothing he was with Rhaenyra, and now that Alicent has kept this secret from him, and then she came like a vision in the night to save him from himself, it's going to explain why he's so all or nothing for Alicent now. Not to mention all the religious aspects (Criston referring primarily to what he and Rhaenyra did as a sin, the parallels between his last scene in the ep and the Agony in the Garden, Alicent being this merciful queen in his eyes, the Mother of the Seven come to give him light and purpose), I'm looking forward to this really twisted, zealous version of Lancelot and Guinevere, combined with all that classic GRRM politicking that makes everything so messy. (Also, Tim, looking at a chicken: a lobster!!!)
The "wedding fight" felt really contrived to me. It was really dumb for Joffery to go up to talk to Criston like that and spill the beans, so I knew it was a setup for some conflict. I didn't know they'd go that far, though. And I know Ser Criston continues to be a Kingsguard, which is insane. It's astounding to think he'd get no punishment for doing that. Yeah, that's not exactly the kind of person I'd want on my Kingsguard...
Same. Him brutalizing Joffrey in a tourney setting would make much more sense, but the writers wanted a dramatic wedding and to avoid having another tournament scene. Sigh.
I loved seeing more of Rhaenys this episode. She’s so cool and an absolute badass. I loved the private moment she had with Corlys where he asks for her opinion and reminds her that he would have done anything to put her on the throne if that was what she wanted. He clearly loves and respects her a great deal. Her justifiable worry about the position that they’re putting Laenor in and the fact that she has ceased wishing for the throne displays her wisdom. She sees that an excess of ambition will only lead to pain and misery.
I thought the king struggling to eat was being mirrored parallel to the other people eating with their hands or without much difficulty while he has gotten weaker to simply have the normal pleasures he wishes for. Also, Viserys’ tension and frustrations mount as he continuously gets interrupted during this wedding and getting undercut. That’s my take anyhow
Great review! I do actually disagree about your 'Timeline' point in reference to the Rhaenyra and Crispin storyline though, simply because I don't agree that there WAS any growth/change in their relationship between episodes. They slept together once, and Crispin's proposal -- as his dialogue states -- was a way for him to try and reclaim his honor in the aftermath of that, not about being in love with her. He obviously had feelings for her, and she had feelings for him (though I'd say much more in the "this is just some friends with benefits, fun!" vein for her), but I think its pretty clear in that scene that him wanting to run away with her was much more about his own guilt at breaking his vows. In his eyes, that could only be made "okay" in retrospect if she married him. On a completely different note regarding something related to 'Allegiance', my favorite little detail on that front was everyone standing up when Alicent entered in her green dress -- except Daemon, who just kept sitting the whole time. So good!
For me, Viserys’s dogged lobster eating reflected his entire reign. He was at a wedding feast - he wanted to eat good food, enjoy the music, and watch his little girl get married to a family that would ensure the greatness of the dynasty. All the while, his wife is giving him side eyes, factions are literally forming around him as he chews, Daemon is being Daemon, and, at last, first blood is spilled. Chew, chew.
Obviously, Rings of Power and House of the Dragon are building up to something. But HOTD gives us a clear idea, what it builds up to while RoP hardly gives us a clue. To me, that makes HOTD more interesting. Both are fun to watch though.
Criston was definitely delusional thinking the heir to the Iron Throne itself would abandon not only her crown but also her family and her home, her whole world, for him. He's just some guy.
My take on the focus on Viserys going in on that lobster was partly to show Alicent’s growing disgust with Viserys and Rhaenyra. Check out the cut to her watching him and the look on her face. It’s like she’s finally realizing how pitiful he really is
Exactly. In the previous episodes, we see that even though she is miserable in her role as Queen, she tries to be the peacekeeper and ingratiate herself in house Targaryen. She wears their colors, tries to make peace between Viserys and Rhaenyra, make up with Rhaenyra etc. But now, realizing that neither of them give a shit about her, how they lie to her, use her and play her, she realizes her efforts are wasted. She cant be a a Targaryen and doesnt want to be like them. So she chooses her family, the only thing left to her.
Something I noticed while watching the show was that it seemed like the Grandmaester might be the one responsible for Viserys' illness. In the show, there is a short scene where the Grandmaester and his assistant discuss the king's illness. The assistant suggests trying a new poultice to treat the illness, but the Grandmaester is firm on using leaches. It seems to me that the Grandmaester is trying to slowly kill Viserys. I think he is trying to subtly assassinate the king, either for Otto Hightower or Larys Strong. What do the rest of you think?
Whenever it comes down to the Grandmaesters, I can never remove gross incompetence from the table. They're certainly good at some things, but also hilariously inept. It's a good narrative balance for healers in this universe.
the whole Maesters order has long been the subject of theories given how much control they have over the rulers of Westeros (controling their communications, the education of their children and their health) so yeah it isn't that hard to start seeing deliberate malice in the Grandmaester's actions. That being said it is also heavily implied that this is all just incompetence thanks to the deliberate mentions of how crude medicine was in those days across the episodes we've seen so far. the ambiguity is another part of what draws people to engage with the lore and the show/books.
I noticed this too, but then I realized there really is not much reason for them to want to have him killed. It would be much more within their interest to try to convince the king to swear Aegon as his heir rather than have him die while Rhaenyra still holds the title. Even if let's say they decided there was no use in trying to convince the king, it is still in their best interest to have Aegon grow up since once he is a man, he is a much more desirable heir to the lords of Westeros over Rhaenyra than he would be as a child. The only thing I can think of is possibly the maesters simply dislike Targaryen's and wish to see them usurped, since they seem to have a dislike for dragons.
For me, the lobster struggle was a simple nod to times we've all had when we're at a family gathering and awkward things start happening. We get a little too fixated on eating, to try and ignore it, thus exaggeratively digging into our food.
From my understanding, it looked like Cole attacked Laenor in the middle of the crowd, and Joffrey protected him, which led to him getting beaten to death in his stead.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wished Robert was there in that moment. All I thought was, he would have NEVER let that get so out of hand. And as an lgbtq+ member... I was doubly heartbroken.
I didn't read the dance of dragons book, but I did LOVE ABSOLUTELY LOVE the Lore of Westeros, and that's how I found out about the Dance of the Dragons aka the fall of House Targaryen. It was SO COOL to hear the lore be told BY THE CHARACTERS it just immerses you right into it. And the PMV style of storybook visuals was such a nice touch. "He devoured her in six....whole....bites." Wonder how that's gonna play out on screen.
Viserys is a serious stress eater. I think that bird died a second time in his hands. I viewed Criston’s proposal as an act of desperation to try and fix his broken oath. And Rhaenyra’s rejection left him feeling trapped and hopeless for a way to assuage his guilt for soiling his white cloak. That helped ratchet up his anger and panic to the point that, well, you know.
Alicent’s entrance reminded me of Kiera Knightley’s green dress in Atonement, like that moment was fantastic and the garment is perfect. That shade of green is so symbolic and a really powerful statement, and I love that her clothing and her dramatic entrance makes this big announcement without her saying a word, because that’s exactly how a woman in her position had to play it, she identifies herself as a Hightower not just with meaningful colour symbolism, but also with this aggressive and yet also understated flair for court politics. I’ve been loving the costumes of HOD, and This honestly felt like a mike drop. I loved it.
Things feeling predictable is the challenge of covering 20-30 years prior to a war, especially when the promotional material and 1st episode make it clear that a war is coming. But it's necessary. Great stuff coming
One character that doesn't feel like they're trying to get one over on Viserys is Lyonel Stong, he is very pragmatic in his approach, like episode 2 he agreed that he should marry Laena since it would be one of the stronger matches in the realm, and then in the latest episode told Viserys that it's good that he is just continuing the peace from Jaehaerys reign, that he doesn't need to forge himself in battle.
they also showed vaemon eating a couple times, and while we see the strongs sitting at the table we never see them eat, so i think that’s symbolism for who has agency within the scene. daemon, harwin, alicent etc, all drive the scene and are never shown eating, as far as i can remember at least i gotta watch again. great vid as always my guy!
It's similar to how people acted with Sansa. Those who love Daenerys or Arya hate Sansa, those who love Rhaenyra hate Alicent. They don't fight or do epic stuff, but they're cunning interesting women who surely know their way on court.
So the one problem I have with Ser joffrey's death is in a tourney they could have claimed it was accident but here he murdered a knight for no reason he can't deny that or pretend it wasn't with how badly he beat him
Well it'll probably be like the king said, perception is more important. Alicent/Otto could definitely spin this as a defense of Rhaenyra's honor and then have that dirt on her whilst sowing the seed (is strong) of doubt around her heirs. But we'll have to see
Yeah I had the same feeling when I saw it. I understand it makes sense for a dramatic sequence of events to unfold but here it feels unnecessary and hard to resolve in terms of the world's rules and consequences. I do hope they address this but something tells me the is just going to move along.
@@poenpotzu2865 It's probably going to be a scene in the future where Leanor gets angry because the crown covered it up or something like that. Which is enough honestly, we already know why everyone would want to cover that up. Especially the Velaryons.
As someone who's read Fire and Blood every episode has had me on the edge of my seat. That said I can understand why people without that knowledge might find it slow and uninteresting at times. I feel the performances help make up the difference, but I can definitely understand why everyday people find it slow.
what I got from them going back to viscerys demolishing the lobster was sorta a sense of the disgust allicent feels towards her husband and her situation in general. Being accented by her basically starting down the path that will destroy his legacy it felt like a good way of showing how she's starting to see him and the targaryens in general
I don't know anything about the books, and I still vastly prefer HOTD (even before 5). Characters have depth, dialogue is on point, scenes are PACKED with characterisation and tense back and forth. It's just good, plain and simple. ROP bores me to death though. Dialogue is insipid, action scenes are mostly pointless, characteris are either idiots or insufferable Galadriels, and more... I dropped it mid-episode 3, I couldn't take the pain anymore.
I had the opposite reaction, I was digging HotD over Rings of Power until last episode becasue ser criston snapping felt like it came WAY out of left field, and kinda horned in. I was so confused by it and still don't quite understand it or why he wasn't arrested immediately
As someone who hasn’t read the book, the show is extremely easy to follow and, in my opinion, doesn’t meander. Everything that happens is deliberate, meaningful, and engaging. Thus far, nothing (or at least very little) in the show is superfluous, and I greatly appreciate that.
About the lobster bit, I think they were trying to show us that the king will not do anything to stop or influence all the court intrigue that is right in front of him. Even when he notices strange moves, he can/will only continue eating his luxorius feast in frustration.
All the talk about knights who have not seen war and are eager for glory always makes me think of the Crusades in our history, which in some ways could be seen as the Pope trying to sate the battle hungry nobles and knights by sending them off to fight a righteous war far away so they won't make a mess in Europe. Maybe the Dance would have been avoided if all those knights were shipped across the Narrow Sea to fight a holy war lmao
I'm so glad for the 2nd channel, I just decided to start making a serious effort at writing myself, and as good as the main channel topical videos are I think these kind of informal talks and reactions to media are also very instructive for me. Both your channels have been a big inspiration for me to stop thinking about writing and actually just do it!
The only time house of the dragon has felt slow for me was episode 4. Very horny episode. Which I don’t have anything against. But it did feel like the plot took a back seat for that one. Every other episode has felt like it’s moving really fast. In a good way.
True, but it felt like it was using sex as a theme for the episode, since it was showing all the power dynamics that come into play around it and all the characters' relationships to it.
I personally appreciate they were willing to tell the story properly with only one kernel of tension, Paddy Considine dying, sustaining the first five hours, but it's not surprising this doesn't immediately grab a lot of people.
House of the dragon was a beautiful slow motion train wreck. You can see this cataclysmic war building, you can see the dominoes fall and paths close off but its so preventable and it makes me gi aaisxubrqiajdebqkodnhf. So yeah i like it
When Corlys brought up the topic of family name and which would be used when ascending the throne, I wondered why they didn't think of merging the names.
the lobster eating scene is pretty great! Viserys has few fingers left so simple tasks like eating are a challenge, he has the inability to carry himself kingly in this little moments to allude to his lack of capacity for kingship. Metaphor allegories symbolism etc
There was a good moment when someone went to grab his hand and clearly crushed the glove with the missing fingers too. You'd think they would have padded them out!
Both shows are clearly in the 'set-up' process but in order for the 'pay-off' to hit home the set-up has to be done right. It's SO important. One show is meticulously building up characters, threads and possible directions while the other is not. Viewers can make up their own minds as to which is which.
It wasn't just that they were going back to Viserys eating; it was that he's getting sicker and sicker but still enjoying his pleasures (and presumably his overindulgence is making him sicker). Also you see his wife looking on trying to hide her disgust.
Rheanyra's response/rejection of Ser Criston honestly made total sense to me. She definitely could have articulated it better, but I took it as another way that the show was contrasting gender expectations. Like, yes, Criston had this romantic notion of them running away together, but Rhaenyra has been raised her whole life to think of the future. If she ran away and married him, sure he could have found work anywhere, but what was Rhaenyra to do all day? She's expressed how she doesn't want to stay home and push out babies. She would lose her roots, her family, her culture. The comfort of riding her dragon, her books; heck, even the weight of the crown itself. She doesn't want to be The Queen Who Never Was Because She Ran Away. Why would she want to lose more power than what "little" power she has (admittedly as a royal woman)? Ser Criston has tarnished his white cloak, yes, but he still has a man's power to provide for himself at any given moment. He can start a new trade, make a new name for himself, live out the ideal of a knight eloping with his love. How would he respond if he was the woman and she the man? Now the tables are turned, and it's interesting to see him break under these circumstances. You talked about the loss of childhood in a previous episode, this kinda feels like finally it's Criston's turn. Is there such a thing as an ideal knight of the kingsguard? Where does your loyalty to yourself stop and loyalty to the crown start? She is the crown, Criston, and, well, that is how he responds to the crown wanting more, I guess. I also took the way Viserys was eating his meal as a way to show how Alicent is coming to view the Targaryens overall. The food on Viserys' plate looked almost undercooked, and it made me think that Viserys was viciously using it to get out his frustrations rather than eating it politely or getting actual sustenance from it. He didn't value it as a meal. The Targaryen's are kind of notorious for using people and discarding them, chewing them up and spitting them out when they're done. Everything/everyone in Westeros has to fuel/feed the legacy. Even Laenor's love/lover is brutally lost to it, lost in the name of Criston's misery, like the meal is shredded beneath Viserys' knife. Alicent certainly feels used after being Viserys' wife, and choosing to remain Rhaenyra's friend. She's been used by her father, and in some ways technically used by her children. She's then ironically seeing it happen to her father, seeing him tossed out into the rain after all he's done (at least in her eyes) (even though how she feels about her father maneuvering her into Viserys' path must be complicated and hard to express), and now she's seeing it happen with Ser Criston too. This whole episode is adding fuel to the fire that Alicent is about to ignite out of Hightower, a fire to fight back against how the Targaryens keep using people (and Rhaenyra is an easier target than anyone else in Alicent's reach).
I havent read the fire and blood book, but from having watched and read the previous GoT show and books, Every scene in this show feels like a powderkeg that could explode in any moment. RoP feels like I'm watching one of the peter jackson LoTR films in parts and just as it starts getting interesting you pause it and have to wait a week.
The tounting of Daemon was meant as a contrast to his lady wife. He did finish her when tounted but when Princess did that, he was like yeah no. I see it like an admition that he cares about family more than about his wants
my thoughts on Viserys eating while the party goes on/the fight breaks out was that it shows how he's a weak king who struggles to make choices. He's not joining the party and fraternizing with his sworn lords, or taking a stand to break out the fight when it starts. He just sits there, more focused on his chicken than anything else, looking and acting all the more disgusting by the way he's eating. It just showcases his overall weakness, wrong focus, gluttony and by proxxy laziness. And as Alicent watches him eat, she reconises it too.
I think also that Cole is less in love with rhaenyra and more devastated at having broken his oath. when she rejects him, his first thought is not "I love you" its "I have soiled my cloak". he's more concerned with his honor and he thinks marrying rhaenyra will fix his honor
so ive enjoyed watching so far BUT my main gripe which you touched on is the time skips!!! i havent read fire and blood so i dont have that context. and every time a time skip happens im just sitting there scratching my head going "Huh" so much development happens off screen and it really baffled me as i watched it unfold. like for the first time skip, i would have really liked to see more interactions between viserys and alicent and watched how they went from that initial awkward discussion to viserys choosing alicent over a "better" marriage option. i felt like there were two scenes and then bam! he was making a decision that didnt seem to make much sense in my eyes as a viewer. and the wAR IN THE STEPSTONES. i genuinely paused the show when they revealed that a war had been happening offscreen for 2 years. it was so baffling to me. they really made it look like the crab guy was going to be a larger player then he ended up being and in the same episode that they revealed a war had been going on for the better part of 2 years, suddenly it is resolved in like 5 mins. interested to see how the 10 year time skip makes me feel haha other than that ive been really entertained by the show! love the videos keep it up!
I get the feeling Criston took Ser Joffrey's words as a threat to Rhaenyra. He misunderstood Joffrey's intentions. Joffrey seemed to be trying to level the playing field, making sure that if Criston ever caught on that Laenor was both gay and unfaithful, and thought about telling anyone, then they'd tell everyone about Criston and Rhaenyra. Yes it was blackmail, but blackmail designed to actually create an alliance between the two men. I think Criston misunderstood and thought Joffrey was just threatening Rhaenyra for the sake of it, perhaps with the intention to one day use this blackmail to make Laenor King instead of King Consort. On top of this, Criston thinks he's a dead man. In his mind, Alicent knows he broke his Kingsguard vows and is probably just waiting to reveal it so as not to spoil the wedding celebrations. So he unleashes all his frustrations, sadness and rage on the closest supposed 'villain' he can find, doing his 'duty' as a Kingsguard and a lover one last time.
I actually like the dusty coloring pallette, for some reason-but I do agree that it is exceptionally heavy on the shadows, sometimes, even when I might like it to be a little more well-lit.😅🤭🤔🤷♀️😁 Lol ^-^ Here's the thing... I don't actually think it is so super clear that Daemon intended to kill Rhea. I mean, he could easily have just been trying to reach out to grab her horse and stop her from riding away from him, maybe because right in that moment he literally had nowhere else that he could go except finally back to his unwilling marriage which he'd been avoiding the whole time before then. Until she provokes him, out of her own assumption that he was definitely intending to kill her from the beginning. Daemon is always surrounded by people who always assume the absolute worst about him, even when it's not actually very clear if he's always even guilty of the worst or not. I mean, he could have been walking away from her initially to either leave her there to die OR to go for medical help[ or for help more safely transporting her back home like on a stretcher] or something. But if there's one thing it seems that Daemon always rises to[ &/or lashes out at], it's accusations of his impotence. She accuses him of not being able to follow through with killing her, so he picks up a rock[ and presumably puts her out of her (& his own) misery]. Previously, he overheard his brother the King accuse him of being basically incapable of desiring the throne or whatever, and suddenly he became super keen on making it clear that he absolutely *_could_* take the throne .. IF he _really_ *wanted* to. So I thought that scene was perfectly consistent with how he's been portrayed in every scene the whole entire series. And I actually understand why Rhaenyra did not trust Alicent enough to confide the whole truth & nothing but the truth in Alicent. I mean, it's not as if Alicent simply openly approached her and was like "hey bestie, so..uhm..my dad's made some serious insinuations about you" or like just asked Rhaenyra wtf happened in calm or friendly way-Alicent came at her, guns blazing, clearly irate and judging and not even asking if what happened was consensual or not(and the Alicent/Rhaenyra friendship had only just barely started mending after their estrangement beforr that so it made sense Rhaenyra wouldn't really feel close enough to Alicent at that point to really know where Alicent's allegiences rest with Rhaenyra or with the King or what). And then, ultimately, Alicent ends up proving in the end that basically he allegiances don't rest all that terribly strongly with Rhaenyra after all because[ much like the King starts considering this possibility that he can't really trust Daemon's loyalty is to the King and not to Daemon's own interests] Alicent also begins considering that maybe Rhaenyra's interests really so self-serving that she really would slaughter all of Alicent's children just to secure the right to take the throne uncontested. It's kind of like the ultimate, most tragically self-fulfilling-prophecy-where paranoia that something could or might happen, ultimately , ends up being the very thing that CAUSES[ or probably will cause] exactly that thing to happen .. when maybe, just maybe, it actually might not have otherwise happened at all. But maybe that's just me and my own take on it - idekk. ^^
So far I have been enjoying house of the dragon. It expands on the history book and plays with characters conflicted between desire and duty, along with the consequences that comes with those conflicting decisions. My biggest gripe is the random violence and death between the noble houses. I understand the show outlined this in the first episode where the queen who never was pointing out how green and angry the young knights are, bloody and angry for war. But these deaths should have more consequences. Especially if Criston Cole a member of the Kingsguard brutally murders a knight of a noble house at a royal wedding.
"these deaths should have more consequences" this is also my problem with it. Like, I imagine the Blackwood/Bracken event will be why the Baratheons would not want violence within their halls... leading to Luc's sad fate. But what about in the immediate timeline? Is that just... okay, now? And definitely for Sir Criston. Like, I imagine Alicent is probably going to protect him, and Corlys is probably ambivalent to Laenor's lover's death so he wouldn't press the issue, but a member of the Kingsguard just brutally murdered a highborn nobleman.. and he walks away scot-free? Makes no damn sense
@@AllTheArtsy my only way of making sense of this is that Laenor become too depressed to do anything, Alicent protects Cole, and the king is too weak to do anything.
@@poenpotzu2865 Honestly same. I'm just reconciling myself with it for now. I hope it's not a glimpse into things to come.. that world-important considerations are just left dangling like this since they're not plot-important, i guess
Imagine being scared that Rhaenyra would put your children to the sword.... when your family is actually actively scheming to steal her birthright from her. The audacity.
The Hightowers aren’t “scheming” to steal anything. Otto is simply observing the reality that the realm will not accept a woman on the Iron Throne, and Rhaenyra’s best chance to secure her succession is to end Alicent’s line.
@@Longshanks1690 but otto was the one who set up this situation, he even gets orders from his brother to make sure their blood ends up on the throne, that sounds like scheming to me.
@@Longshanks1690 Otto: Yo, Alicent, why don't you wear one of your mother's dresses and comfort the king? Hobert: Yo, Otto, make sure that Aegon becomes the heir Otto: Yo, Alicent, make sure Aegon becomes the heir "The Hightowers aren’t “scheming” to steal anything." okkkaayyyyyy
@@poenpotzu2865 Of course they’re self servicing, because literally everyone in Westeros is. All the Hightowers did was cut ahead of the rest of everyone else and get Viserys married to one of them. A second wife was inevitable, meaning a son was also likely inevitable. Yes, Otto forced Alicent into this position but the fact of the matter is that Rhaenyra would have to climb over the bodies of someone’s children if she wanted to ascend the Iron Throne uncontested, which is what Otto is pointing out because the realm yearns for a King.
Also a neat detail was Rhenyses's surprise when holding Vyserys, because Greyscale took his fingers and he is wearing gloves to hide that fact. I am surprised he can still use utensils.
Rhaenyra and Daemon's arrogance I'm sure will cost them dearly I think what jumps out to me is how differently Alicent and Rhaenyra deal with their positions.
GRRM implies that HOTD is meant to be the true version of events (he is much more closely involved in the writing this time around) as opposed to the book which is more like a history book with biased accounts and obscure truths. So according to that what happened with Ser Christen and Rhaenyra in episode 5 is the actual story.
Adding my two cents re the lobsters: Viserys is having a hard time "managing" it and it makes him look kind of ridiculous and impotent, so it's symbolic of the way he's ruling his kingdom: things are getting out of his control and he isn't capable of doing much about it without looking ridiculous. Think of the impotent, embarrassing feeling of having difficulties cutting up a finnicky, weirdly shaped, difficult to cut meal at a formal function with everyone staring at you.
Ser Criston isn’t actually in love with Rhyneara, he just wanted to restore his honor. He wanted her to leave her titles and duties, which would HER be abandoning her honor, just to go back on his own mistake. He actually tells her this was his honest motivation when she rejects him and he gets upset.
The chaotic lobster stabbing/eating made me think Viserys’ food was poisoned maybe. Or just a little nod to the brutality of the events to come in the series.
Can anyone explain how Sir Christan was at the side of the room, Damon has his hand on the neck of Ranira something he should be dealing with, then teleports to the middle of the dance floor beating sir kisses to a pulp? It feels like shots were cut out to explain what happened and where Damon went.
I have to wonder if misogyny plays a role in Criston's arc in this episode. When a high born *man* has a mistress or two, no one in Westeros bats an eye, but when Criston gets this kind of offer from a *woman* it probably feels emasculating. So to feel better he does a stereotypically masculine thing and starts a fight.
Magic was more of a thing back then, so Daemon could have totally been responsible for Rhea Royce's accident in the book, if only indirectly. Mysaria was rumored to have used magic, though that could just be slander. Aemon was also with a witch at the end of the book who too, so it's not like there weren't magical people around who could have made an assassination look like an accident. The Faceless Men are also a thing, though I have no clue what Daemon would have payed them to do the deed.
i think criston killed Joffrey as a last act of loyalty to rhaenyra so they'll be one less person that can expose her secret then he went to kill himself to punish himself for all the mistakes he made
I think he did it for himself. joffrey had no problem being in a relationship in secret while crinston hate the situation. I think it take what joffrey told him as a insult
@@theflashgordon193 to me it was obvious criston took it as a threat hes scared and paranoid and doesn't do well with secrets and then all of a sudden a guy he never met tells him there gona work together if he doesn't want his secret exposed so he couldn't take it anymore so figured hed kill one loose end and then himself saving rhaenyra from the scandal and to punish himself
Can I just make a note here of how I absolutely enjoy the titles of the episodes on this channel for House and Rings xd please continue as the titles are more entertaining that the tv series themselves 🤣👏👏👏
I think that the shots of Viserys overtly chopping that lobster (or whatever is on his plate) contributed to the tension of the scene (in addition to the cuts between shots becoming faster and faster) and also provided a bit of foreshadowing as to how that scene was going to end.
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Me: I would NEVER be a simp!
Alicent: 🟢 👗
Also me: At your service, my Queen.
Stop simping, go hammer the scots
Really? I don't really like her. It was her father that honesty started this, and now he has convinced his daughter that Rhaenyra is going to kill her children? There's no reason to think that at this point she doesn't seem like a Cercei.
@@LisaAnn777 she's a targaryens, gods love flipping a coin with them
@@ihatepower4580 Yeah no doubt, but she still doesn't seem that bad. Daemon probably would do that but at this point he isn't the heir. Though they are Targaryen's so they might get together lol they've already showed some "interest" in each other.
@@LisaAnn777 exactly
Paddy has been doing a phenomenal job of portraying Viserys, such a tragic character who just wants his family and the realm to get along. He's so much more interesting than the gluttonous, powerless king that he's portrayed as in the book.
@@momomomocensoredbyyoutube9085 I am so conflicted, I want to like him, he is so i teresting, but he triggers me like hell. I hate bad parents with a passion and his generell disregard for other people's feelings and all... His queen's fate traumatised me
Just like in the real world. Lot of impatient idiots have been turned into heroes while those that did a lot to maintain peace were not.
I love how protective he is when it comes to Rhaenyra and Daemon
"[Marrying you second cousin] by Targaryen standards is like marrying someone from a different country" took me out 😂
It is true though. Even Daenerys' parents were brother and sister.
Hi Tim, so House Hightower’s colors are white and grey (per their sigil of a white watchtower on a smoke-grey field), both in the books and the show from what I’ve seen.
Strictly speaking, green isn’t one of their House colors, as you noted, but it has significance to the House because it’s the color the Hightower beacon fire turns when the Lord summons his banners to war (as noted by Larys Strong).
This is a book detail, by the way (see page 84 of *Fire and Blood* stating that the beacon fire turned “a baleful green” to summon the Hightower banners), not a show fabrication (though I do love that the show vindicated my analysis that Book!Alicent wore green to symbolically call her faction of the court to war against Rhaenyra).
By wearing green, Alicent not only announced her allegiance to House Hightower over House Targaryen (she arguably could have done that by wearing one of her actual House colors), she announced that she’s ready for *war.* She’s ready to fight for Aegon’s right to sit the Iron Throne, and she’s done sitting on the sidelines.
I missed this! I get it now. Cheers.
~ Tim
I had to dig through *Fire and Blood* to find that mention of the green flame, but I couldn’t figure out why Book!Alicent would wear green when it *isn’t* one of her House colors. I figured this was GRRM we’re talking about, he who created a world where colors always have significance, so there had to be a reason. Before this episode, my analysis that green dress=green flame=Alicent calling her allies to war was just a theory, so it tickled me to no end that the show vindicated me. And given that GRRM is so involved with the show, I choose to believe that must have been his intended meaning as well.
P.S. Alicent is my favorite, too. I absolutely love how they’ve handled her character, fleshing out the evil stepmother archetype of the book and showing us how she got to the point where she was willing to help plunge the Kingdoms into civil war. Alicent has never been a bad person, but she’s also always been very canny and pragmatic. In the very the first episode, she was the one showing concern for Rhaenyra’s position should Queen Aemma have a son. She’s well aware of the crappy patriarchy she lives in and all that entails. While personal loyalty to Rhaenyra kept her supporting her dear friend’s claim for years (plus, by supporting a ruling queen she’s low key supporting women’s rights/equality), we’ve watched that loyalty slowly be chipped away. Rhaenyra lying to her coupled with the very valid reminder that all of her children will be in danger if Rhaenyra takes the throne was the straw that broke the camel’s back. Regardless of whatever lingering feelings of friendship she may have for Rhaenyra, she’s accepted the fact that Rhaenyra’s ascension pretty much guarantees her children’s deaths since the realm would always be looking to Aegon. Alicent Hightower is a pragmatic woman, and she recognizes that this will become a fight for survival. And she sure as hell isn’t going to go down without a fight. Gah, I love her and how freaking tragic her life is. Also, those looks she exchanged with her family, the way they all stood for her to low key force everyone else to do the same? They know what green means ;)
@@theSilver_Witch Very well said!
I think Criston proposal to elope was more to restore his idea of honor than out of love for Rhaenyra. Like he says he tarnished his white cloak, the only thing he has to his name and maybe marrying her would restore some of his honor after he took her virginity.
So for that reason it didn't feel like I was missing development in their relationship, it's exactly like we left it last episode.
did think it was amusing to go from "I feel we have become somewhat acquainted" to "let's run away and get married" in the space of two minutes
@@RoamingAdhocrat yeah, which is why the writers made a point of making him say right after that this marriage is his way of trying to restore his honor. He's in many ways like Robb from the books. He takes Jeyne's virginity, messes up, and in a fit of guilt, takes her as his wife to protect her honor and his own. And he faces the consequences. Same here except in reverse. Rhaenyra dishonoring Criston will have serious consequences for her run the future.
Yes! I'd he broke unbreakable vows once what is to say he won't do it again. I get why she didn't leave
Criston fell in love after sex like many do But Rhaenyra told him the facts in a very cold almost condescending way, she can't for, every reason.
Nothing bad has ever happened at a Westeros wedding ever.
~ Tim
Westeros loves it's weddings, as it loves it's jousting. Passionate, over the top.... with a splash of red.
“A wedding without at least three deaths is considered a dull affair”
It makes me wonder how a common folks wedding is like, aside from Ramsay's parents
To be fair, this could be the first one…
It's really giving "there is no War in ba sing se" vibes lol
RIP Lady Rhea Royce, who appeared for all of one scene and spent it being the most badass person in the seven kingdoms. How could anyone not love this woman? She deserved so much better than Daemon.
I was thinking the same thing. I guess she was too much "in control" for Daemons taste.
This is why I have such high hopes for the show now. Through clever casting and writing and acting they made a one scene tragedy where a character with endearing qualities and potential is sacrificed to finally hammer home for any doubters that Daemon is indeed a monster who cares only about himself.
Was she a bully or a woman scorned by a man who outwardly insults her and sleeps around? There is enough evidence that both sides could be argued as being possible, but not enough evidence to definitively claim one side being right or wrong. It’s possible that they both hated each other for valid reasons.
I saw the lobster bit as symbolic of how Alicent is seeing Viserys: shaking hands, struggling, growing infirmity, possibly gluttonous? Her growing dissatisfaction with her husband.
I got the same vibe. Maybe even approaching disgust.
@@gerardofrivia8413 I was thinking disgust as well.
I'd say they were very good at making Daemon clear as the monster after so much charisma lured us to like him despite his flaws and with that same skill they made Otto Hightower seem so ambitious and manipulative at first but now also so very human and caring about his work, his king and his daughter. They just got the best actors for these complex roles.
I disagree on the feelings Ser Criston has for Rhaenyra - I'm certain he doesn't love her. There might be some feelings, but ultimately his marriage offer is more about restoring his own sense of honour than anything else. He thinks he's soiled his white cloak for her and the only way that could have been worth it is if she would be willing to run away with him.
Is it just me or does Ser Criston’s complete overkill in his fight with Joffrey seems to mirror Rhanyera’s fight with the boar from their first night alone together.
Nice catch. And they both screamed while they did it
agree with you. they both feel like they releasing their frustration while killing
@@alisaurus4224 Yeah and it even seemed like the angle of the shot was similar with Criston’s face covered in blood just like Rhaynera.
"Atop the Hightower, the great beacon fire turned a baleful green as Lord Martyn Hightower called his banners." Sons of the Dragon chapter in Fire and Blood.
I see Viserys’ eating as a form of foreshadowing to what happens at the ceremony. Seeing him so vigorously and harshly go at his meal is like Ser Criston on Joffrey. And how both were so focused on one thing that they ignored the bigger picture. Seeing the meal spoiled at the end of the episode reflects how the evening went, the rat drinking blood like it’s wine.
Not a Feast for Crows, but Refreshments for Rats?
I’m not Team Black or Green. The only winners will be the spectators of this battle of tragic flaws.
@@ruthbennett7563 Chaos is a ladder.
@@ruthbennett7563 the charcuterie for crabs in episode 2 as well
@@ruthbennett7563 the winners are the scroungers
Interesting analysis. I personally took it as a manifestation of his weak rule, knowing that tensions were rising but directing his frustration and attention elsewhere (the crab/lobster here) while everything around him threatens to boil over. Rather than speaking up and creating order he vents out his frustration on benign things (which also ties into his drinking)
I'm actually really stoked for this shift in Criston's allegiances, because we saw how all or nothing he was with Rhaenyra, and now that Alicent has kept this secret from him, and then she came like a vision in the night to save him from himself, it's going to explain why he's so all or nothing for Alicent now. Not to mention all the religious aspects (Criston referring primarily to what he and Rhaenyra did as a sin, the parallels between his last scene in the ep and the Agony in the Garden, Alicent being this merciful queen in his eyes, the Mother of the Seven come to give him light and purpose), I'm looking forward to this really twisted, zealous version of Lancelot and Guinevere, combined with all that classic GRRM politicking that makes everything so messy.
(Also, Tim, looking at a chicken: a lobster!!!)
Just like the fandom named Joffrey's wedding the Purple Wedding I suggest that we name this the Green Wedding, after the dress Alicent wears.
The "wedding fight" felt really contrived to me. It was really dumb for Joffery to go up to talk to Criston like that and spill the beans, so I knew it was a setup for some conflict. I didn't know they'd go that far, though. And I know Ser Criston continues to be a Kingsguard, which is insane. It's astounding to think he'd get no punishment for doing that. Yeah, that's not exactly the kind of person I'd want on my Kingsguard...
Same. Him brutalizing Joffrey in a tourney setting would make much more sense, but the writers wanted a dramatic wedding and to avoid having another tournament scene. Sigh.
@@ManSeekingMeaning Yes a smart here!
As someone adding a brightness adjustment layer to every second of HOTD footage I put in my videos, I feel you on the dark and dusty color grade.
I loved seeing more of Rhaenys this episode. She’s so cool and an absolute badass. I loved the private moment she had with Corlys where he asks for her opinion and reminds her that he would have done anything to put her on the throne if that was what she wanted. He clearly loves and respects her a great deal.
Her justifiable worry about the position that they’re putting Laenor in and the fact that she has ceased wishing for the throne displays her wisdom. She sees that an excess of ambition will only lead to pain and misery.
I thought the king struggling to eat was being mirrored parallel to the other people eating with their hands or without much difficulty while he has gotten weaker to simply have the normal pleasures he wishes for. Also, Viserys’ tension and frustrations mount as he continuously gets interrupted during this wedding and getting undercut. That’s my take anyhow
Great review! I do actually disagree about your 'Timeline' point in reference to the Rhaenyra and Crispin storyline though, simply because I don't agree that there WAS any growth/change in their relationship between episodes. They slept together once, and Crispin's proposal -- as his dialogue states -- was a way for him to try and reclaim his honor in the aftermath of that, not about being in love with her. He obviously had feelings for her, and she had feelings for him (though I'd say much more in the "this is just some friends with benefits, fun!" vein for her), but I think its pretty clear in that scene that him wanting to run away with her was much more about his own guilt at breaking his vows. In his eyes, that could only be made "okay" in retrospect if she married him.
On a completely different note regarding something related to 'Allegiance', my favorite little detail on that front was everyone standing up when Alicent entered in her green dress -- except Daemon, who just kept sitting the whole time. So good!
For me, Viserys’s dogged lobster eating reflected his entire reign. He was at a wedding feast - he wanted to eat good food, enjoy the music, and watch his little girl get married to a family that would ensure the greatness of the dynasty. All the while, his wife is giving him side eyes, factions are literally forming around him as he chews, Daemon is being Daemon, and, at last, first blood is spilled. Chew, chew.
Obviously, Rings of Power and House of the Dragon are building up to something. But HOTD gives us a clear idea, what it builds up to while RoP hardly gives us a clue. To me, that makes HOTD more interesting. Both are fun to watch though.
This isn’t even debatable
Criston was definitely delusional thinking the heir to the Iron Throne itself would abandon not only her crown but also her family and her home, her whole world, for him. He's just some guy.
My take on the focus on Viserys going in on that lobster was partly to show Alicent’s growing disgust with Viserys and Rhaenyra. Check out the cut to her watching him and the look on her face. It’s like she’s finally realizing how pitiful he really is
Exactly. In the previous episodes, we see that even though she is miserable in her role as Queen, she tries to be the peacekeeper and ingratiate herself in house Targaryen. She wears their colors, tries to make peace between Viserys and Rhaenyra, make up with Rhaenyra etc. But now, realizing that neither of them give a shit about her, how they lie to her, use her and play her, she realizes her efforts are wasted. She cant be a a Targaryen and doesnt want to be like them. So she chooses her family, the only thing left to her.
Something I noticed while watching the show was that it seemed like the Grandmaester might be the one responsible for Viserys' illness. In the show, there is a short scene where the Grandmaester and his assistant discuss the king's illness. The assistant suggests trying a new poultice to treat the illness, but the Grandmaester is firm on using leaches. It seems to me that the Grandmaester is trying to slowly kill Viserys. I think he is trying to subtly assassinate the king, either for Otto Hightower or Larys Strong. What do the rest of you think?
Whenever it comes down to the Grandmaesters, I can never remove gross incompetence from the table.
They're certainly good at some things, but also hilariously inept. It's a good narrative balance for healers in this universe.
the whole Maesters order has long been the subject of theories given how much control they have over the rulers of Westeros (controling their communications, the education of their children and their health) so yeah it isn't that hard to start seeing deliberate malice in the Grandmaester's actions. That being said it is also heavily implied that this is all just incompetence thanks to the deliberate mentions of how crude medicine was in those days across the episodes we've seen so far. the ambiguity is another part of what draws people to engage with the lore and the show/books.
I noticed this too, but then I realized there really is not much reason for them to want to have him killed. It would be much more within their interest to try to convince the king to swear Aegon as his heir rather than have him die while Rhaenyra still holds the title.
Even if let's say they decided there was no use in trying to convince the king, it is still in their best interest to have Aegon grow up since once he is a man, he is a much more desirable heir to the lords of Westeros over Rhaenyra than he would be as a child.
The only thing I can think of is possibly the maesters simply dislike Targaryen's and wish to see them usurped, since they seem to have a dislike for dragons.
I think hes just set in his ways and isn't willing to try out new things
For me, the lobster struggle was a simple nod to times we've all had when we're at a family gathering and awkward things start happening. We get a little too fixated on eating, to try and ignore it, thus exaggeratively digging into our food.
From my understanding, it looked like Cole attacked Laenor in the middle of the crowd, and Joffrey protected him, which led to him getting beaten to death in his stead.
I think it was upset toward joffrey. he probably was going for him from the start
I'm glad I'm not the only one who wished Robert was there in that moment. All I thought was, he would have NEVER let that get so out of hand.
And as an lgbtq+ member... I was doubly heartbroken.
I didn't read the dance of dragons book, but I did LOVE ABSOLUTELY LOVE the Lore of Westeros, and that's how I found out about the Dance of the Dragons aka the fall of House Targaryen. It was SO COOL to hear the lore be told BY THE CHARACTERS it just immerses you right into it. And the PMV style of storybook visuals was such a nice touch. "He devoured her in six....whole....bites."
Wonder how that's gonna play out on screen.
Viserys is a serious stress eater. I think that bird died a second time in his hands.
I viewed Criston’s proposal as an act of desperation to try and fix his broken oath. And Rhaenyra’s rejection left him feeling trapped and hopeless for a way to assuage his guilt for soiling his white cloak. That helped ratchet up his anger and panic to the point that, well, you know.
Alicent’s entrance reminded me of Kiera Knightley’s green dress in Atonement, like that moment was fantastic and the garment is perfect. That shade of green is so symbolic and a really powerful statement, and I love that her clothing and her dramatic entrance makes this big announcement without her saying a word, because that’s exactly how a woman in her position had to play it, she identifies herself as a Hightower not just with meaningful colour symbolism, but also with this aggressive and yet also understated flair for court politics. I’ve been loving the costumes of HOD, and This honestly felt like a mike drop. I loved it.
Things feeling predictable is the challenge of covering 20-30 years prior to a war, especially when the promotional material and 1st episode make it clear that a war is coming. But it's necessary. Great stuff coming
One character that doesn't feel like they're trying to get one over on Viserys is Lyonel Stong, he is very pragmatic in his approach, like episode 2 he agreed that he should marry Laena since it would be one of the stronger matches in the realm, and then in the latest episode told Viserys that it's good that he is just continuing the peace from Jaehaerys reign, that he doesn't need to forge himself in battle.
they also showed vaemon eating a couple times, and while we see the strongs sitting at the table we never see them eat, so i think that’s symbolism for who has agency within the scene. daemon, harwin, alicent etc, all drive the scene and are never shown eating, as far as i can remember at least i gotta watch again. great vid as always my guy!
I'm sooo Glad i'm not alone in my love for Alicent! All i see online is hate for the charecter (not the actress, thank god)
It's similar to how people acted with Sansa. Those who love Daenerys or Arya hate Sansa, those who love Rhaenyra hate Alicent.
They don't fight or do epic stuff, but they're cunning interesting women who surely know their way on court.
@@Bwans_Art Exactly.
@@Bwans_Art True. I cannot stand Alicent or Sansa. But I loved Arya and Damaerys for their more direct approach.
So the one problem I have with Ser joffrey's death is in a tourney they could have claimed it was accident but here he murdered a knight for no reason he can't deny that or pretend it wasn't with how badly he beat him
Well it'll probably be like the king said, perception is more important. Alicent/Otto could definitely spin this as a defense of Rhaenyra's honor and then have that dirt on her whilst sowing the seed (is strong) of doubt around her heirs. But we'll have to see
Yeah I had the same feeling when I saw it. I understand it makes sense for a dramatic sequence of events to unfold but here it feels unnecessary and hard to resolve in terms of the world's rules and consequences. I do hope they address this but something tells me the is just going to move along.
@@serialthrilliayahooAlso, the Velaryons are probably happy to get rid of that "issue". They have all the reasons to cover up that event.
@@poenpotzu2865 It's probably going to be a scene in the future where Leanor gets angry because the crown covered it up or something like that.
Which is enough honestly, we already know why everyone would want to cover that up. Especially the Velaryons.
As someone who's read Fire and Blood every episode has had me on the edge of my seat.
That said I can understand why people without that knowledge might find it slow and uninteresting at times. I feel the performances help make up the difference, but I can definitely understand why everyday people find it slow.
Shoves the cucumber down the drain???!! I'm dead! 🤣
what I got from them going back to viscerys demolishing the lobster was sorta a sense of the disgust allicent feels towards her husband and her situation in general. Being accented by her basically starting down the path that will destroy his legacy it felt like a good way of showing how she's starting to see him and the targaryens in general
Aaaa I get so excited when you upload these! Always feels like gathering around the campfire for a story :)
With House of the Dragon, you know what is going to happen (the show is pretty open about this), but it is the tension of watching a train wreck.
I don't know anything about the books, and I still vastly prefer HOTD (even before 5).
Characters have depth, dialogue is on point, scenes are PACKED with characterisation and tense back and forth. It's just good, plain and simple.
ROP bores me to death though. Dialogue is insipid, action scenes are mostly pointless, characteris are either idiots or insufferable Galadriels, and more...
I dropped it mid-episode 3, I couldn't take the pain anymore.
Aha! So THAT'S where Daemon Targaryen has been! He went off and married Queen Elizabeth II under the pseudonym "Philip." Sharp haircut, sweet uniform.
I had the opposite reaction, I was digging HotD over Rings of Power until last episode becasue ser criston snapping felt like it came WAY out of left field, and kinda horned in. I was so confused by it and still don't quite understand it or why he wasn't arrested immediately
Yeah I was super confused about it too
absolutely agree about the brightness, they shot so many scenes during the day yet went full night mode later on..
They doing stereotypical "medieval = dark lighting" sadly
As someone who hasn’t read the book, the show is extremely easy to follow and, in my opinion, doesn’t meander. Everything that happens is deliberate, meaningful, and engaging. Thus far, nothing (or at least very little) in the show is superfluous, and I greatly appreciate that.
This show is SO GOOD. Thanks for making these episodes! It's a treat every week.
"More colour" is basjcally the battle cry for all medieval history media fans at this point.
About the lobster bit, I think they were trying to show us that the king will not do anything to stop or influence all the court intrigue that is right in front of him. Even when he notices strange moves, he can/will only continue eating his luxorius feast in frustration.
Yknow what they say about Jeoffries and weddings...😏
They die. Horribly.
Little did they know this would be foreshadowing for a future king.
All the talk about knights who have not seen war and are eager for glory always makes me think of the Crusades in our history, which in some ways could be seen as the Pope trying to sate the battle hungry nobles and knights by sending them off to fight a righteous war far away so they won't make a mess in Europe. Maybe the Dance would have been avoided if all those knights were shipped across the Narrow Sea to fight a holy war lmao
The lobster focus is to show us that the King is dying from a sea food allergy
There is no master conspiracy just a case of bad lobster.
Perhaps more a “damned bad oyster”?
They knew the green dress alicent was a banger since there is merch with her of it on already lol
I'm so glad for the 2nd channel, I just decided to start making a serious effort at writing myself, and as good as the main channel topical videos are I think these kind of informal talks and reactions to media are also very instructive for me. Both your channels have been a big inspiration for me to stop thinking about writing and actually just do it!
"He barbecues the sausage" hahahahaha hilarious
The only time house of the dragon has felt slow for me was episode 4. Very horny episode. Which I don’t have anything against. But it did feel like the plot took a back seat for that one. Every other episode has felt like it’s moving really fast. In a good way.
True, but it felt like it was using sex as a theme for the episode, since it was showing all the power dynamics that come into play around it and all the characters' relationships to it.
@@hollandscottthomas yeah that’s why I didn’t mind the hornyness too much. But I still felt like it moved a lot slower than the other episodes.
I personally appreciate they were willing to tell the story properly with only one kernel of tension, Paddy Considine dying, sustaining the first five hours, but it's not surprising this doesn't immediately grab a lot of people.
Enjoying this show so far
House of the dragon was a beautiful slow motion train wreck. You can see this cataclysmic war building, you can see the dominoes fall and paths close off but its so preventable and it makes me gi aaisxubrqiajdebqkodnhf. So yeah i like it
When Corlys brought up the topic of family name and which would be used when ascending the throne, I wondered why they didn't think of merging the names.
the lobster eating scene is pretty great! Viserys has few fingers left so simple tasks like eating are a challenge, he has the inability to carry himself kingly in this little moments to allude to his lack of capacity for kingship. Metaphor allegories symbolism etc
There was a good moment when someone went to grab his hand and clearly crushed the glove with the missing fingers too. You'd think they would have padded them out!
I keep going to that King Bobby moment too! Sometimes I just want Viserys to deep voice that shet 😂
Both shows are clearly in the 'set-up' process but in order for the 'pay-off' to hit home the set-up has to be done right. It's SO important. One show is meticulously building up characters, threads and possible directions while the other is not. Viewers can make up their own minds as to which is which.
It wasn't just that they were going back to Viserys eating; it was that he's getting sicker and sicker but still enjoying his pleasures (and presumably his overindulgence is making him sicker). Also you see his wife looking on trying to hide her disgust.
Rheanyra's response/rejection of Ser Criston honestly made total sense to me. She definitely could have articulated it better, but I took it as another way that the show was contrasting gender expectations. Like, yes, Criston had this romantic notion of them running away together, but Rhaenyra has been raised her whole life to think of the future. If she ran away and married him, sure he could have found work anywhere, but what was Rhaenyra to do all day? She's expressed how she doesn't want to stay home and push out babies. She would lose her roots, her family, her culture. The comfort of riding her dragon, her books; heck, even the weight of the crown itself. She doesn't want to be The Queen Who Never Was Because She Ran Away. Why would she want to lose more power than what "little" power she has (admittedly as a royal woman)? Ser Criston has tarnished his white cloak, yes, but he still has a man's power to provide for himself at any given moment. He can start a new trade, make a new name for himself, live out the ideal of a knight eloping with his love. How would he respond if he was the woman and she the man? Now the tables are turned, and it's interesting to see him break under these circumstances. You talked about the loss of childhood in a previous episode, this kinda feels like finally it's Criston's turn. Is there such a thing as an ideal knight of the kingsguard? Where does your loyalty to yourself stop and loyalty to the crown start? She is the crown, Criston, and, well, that is how he responds to the crown wanting more, I guess.
I also took the way Viserys was eating his meal as a way to show how Alicent is coming to view the Targaryens overall. The food on Viserys' plate looked almost undercooked, and it made me think that Viserys was viciously using it to get out his frustrations rather than eating it politely or getting actual sustenance from it. He didn't value it as a meal. The Targaryen's are kind of notorious for using people and discarding them, chewing them up and spitting them out when they're done. Everything/everyone in Westeros has to fuel/feed the legacy. Even Laenor's love/lover is brutally lost to it, lost in the name of Criston's misery, like the meal is shredded beneath Viserys' knife. Alicent certainly feels used after being Viserys' wife, and choosing to remain Rhaenyra's friend. She's been used by her father, and in some ways technically used by her children. She's then ironically seeing it happen to her father, seeing him tossed out into the rain after all he's done (at least in her eyes) (even though how she feels about her father maneuvering her into Viserys' path must be complicated and hard to express), and now she's seeing it happen with Ser Criston too. This whole episode is adding fuel to the fire that Alicent is about to ignite out of Hightower, a fire to fight back against how the Targaryens keep using people (and Rhaenyra is an easier target than anyone else in Alicent's reach).
I havent read the fire and blood book, but from having watched and read the previous GoT show and books, Every scene in this show feels like a powderkeg that could explode in any moment. RoP feels like I'm watching one of the peter jackson LoTR films in parts and just as it starts getting interesting you pause it and have to wait a week.
The tounting of Daemon was meant as a contrast to his lady wife. He did finish her when tounted but when Princess did that, he was like yeah no. I see it like an admition that he cares about family more than about his wants
my thoughts on Viserys eating while the party goes on/the fight breaks out was that it shows how he's a weak king who struggles to make choices. He's not joining the party and fraternizing with his sworn lords, or taking a stand to break out the fight when it starts. He just sits there, more focused on his chicken than anything else, looking and acting all the more disgusting by the way he's eating. It just showcases his overall weakness, wrong focus, gluttony and by proxxy laziness. And as Alicent watches him eat, she reconises it too.
I think also that Cole is less in love with rhaenyra and more devastated at having broken his oath. when she rejects him, his first thought is not "I love you" its "I have soiled my cloak". he's more concerned with his honor and he thinks marrying rhaenyra will fix his honor
so ive enjoyed watching so far BUT my main gripe which you touched on is the time skips!!! i havent read fire and blood so i dont have that context. and every time a time skip happens im just sitting there scratching my head going "Huh" so much development happens off screen and it really baffled me as i watched it unfold. like for the first time skip, i would have really liked to see more interactions between viserys and alicent and watched how they went from that initial awkward discussion to viserys choosing alicent over a "better" marriage option. i felt like there were two scenes and then bam! he was making a decision that didnt seem to make much sense in my eyes as a viewer. and the wAR IN THE STEPSTONES. i genuinely paused the show when they revealed that a war had been happening offscreen for 2 years. it was so baffling to me. they really made it look like the crab guy was going to be a larger player then he ended up being and in the same episode that they revealed a war had been going on for the better part of 2 years, suddenly it is resolved in like 5 mins. interested to see how the 10 year time skip makes me feel haha other than that ive been really entertained by the show! love the videos keep it up!
Haha I immediately thought of that Denethor scene as well
I get the feeling Criston took Ser Joffrey's words as a threat to Rhaenyra. He misunderstood Joffrey's intentions. Joffrey seemed to be trying to level the playing field, making sure that if Criston ever caught on that Laenor was both gay and unfaithful, and thought about telling anyone, then they'd tell everyone about Criston and Rhaenyra. Yes it was blackmail, but blackmail designed to actually create an alliance between the two men. I think Criston misunderstood and thought Joffrey was just threatening Rhaenyra for the sake of it, perhaps with the intention to one day use this blackmail to make Laenor King instead of King Consort.
On top of this, Criston thinks he's a dead man. In his mind, Alicent knows he broke his Kingsguard vows and is probably just waiting to reveal it so as not to spoil the wedding celebrations. So he unleashes all his frustrations, sadness and rage on the closest supposed 'villain' he can find, doing his 'duty' as a Kingsguard and a lover one last time.
I actually like the dusty coloring pallette, for some reason-but I do agree that it is exceptionally heavy on the shadows, sometimes, even when I might like it to be a little more well-lit.😅🤭🤔🤷♀️😁 Lol ^-^
Here's the thing... I don't actually think it is so super clear that Daemon intended to kill Rhea. I mean, he could easily have just been trying to reach out to grab her horse and stop her from riding away from him, maybe because right in that moment he literally had nowhere else that he could go except finally back to his unwilling marriage which he'd been avoiding the whole time before then. Until she provokes him, out of her own assumption that he was definitely intending to kill her from the beginning. Daemon is always surrounded by people who always assume the absolute worst about him, even when it's not actually very clear if he's always even guilty of the worst or not. I mean, he could have been walking away from her initially to either leave her there to die OR to go for medical help[ or for help more safely transporting her back home like on a stretcher] or something. But if there's one thing it seems that Daemon always rises to[ &/or lashes out at], it's accusations of his impotence. She accuses him of not being able to follow through with killing her, so he picks up a rock[ and presumably puts her out of her (& his own) misery]. Previously, he overheard his brother the King accuse him of being basically incapable of desiring the throne or whatever, and suddenly he became super keen on making it clear that he absolutely *_could_* take the throne .. IF he _really_ *wanted* to. So I thought that scene was perfectly consistent with how he's been portrayed in every scene the whole entire series.
And I actually understand why Rhaenyra did not trust Alicent enough to confide the whole truth & nothing but the truth in Alicent. I mean, it's not as if Alicent simply openly approached her and was like "hey bestie, so..uhm..my dad's made some serious insinuations about you" or like just asked Rhaenyra wtf happened in calm or friendly way-Alicent came at her, guns blazing, clearly irate and judging and not even asking if what happened was consensual or not(and the Alicent/Rhaenyra friendship had only just barely started mending after their estrangement beforr that so it made sense Rhaenyra wouldn't really feel close enough to Alicent at that point to really know where Alicent's allegiences rest with Rhaenyra or with the King or what). And then, ultimately, Alicent ends up proving in the end that basically he allegiances don't rest all that terribly strongly with Rhaenyra after all because[ much like the King starts considering this possibility that he can't really trust Daemon's loyalty is to the King and not to Daemon's own interests] Alicent also begins considering that maybe Rhaenyra's interests really so self-serving that she really would slaughter all of Alicent's children just to secure the right to take the throne uncontested. It's kind of like the ultimate, most tragically self-fulfilling-prophecy-where paranoia that something could or might happen, ultimately , ends up being the very thing that CAUSES[ or probably will cause] exactly that thing to happen .. when maybe, just maybe, it actually might not have otherwise happened at all.
But maybe that's just me and my own take on it - idekk. ^^
If something goes wrong, he can’t cut it as king.
So far I have been enjoying house of the dragon. It expands on the history book and plays with characters conflicted between desire and duty, along with the consequences that comes with those conflicting decisions. My biggest gripe is the random violence and death between the noble houses. I understand the show outlined this in the first episode where the queen who never was pointing out how green and angry the young knights are, bloody and angry for war. But these deaths should have more consequences. Especially if Criston Cole a member of the Kingsguard brutally murders a knight of a noble house at a royal wedding.
"these deaths should have more consequences" this is also my problem with it. Like, I imagine the Blackwood/Bracken event will be why the Baratheons would not want violence within their halls... leading to Luc's sad fate. But what about in the immediate timeline? Is that just... okay, now? And definitely for Sir Criston. Like, I imagine Alicent is probably going to protect him, and Corlys is probably ambivalent to Laenor's lover's death so he wouldn't press the issue, but a member of the Kingsguard just brutally murdered a highborn nobleman.. and he walks away scot-free? Makes no damn sense
@@AllTheArtsy my only way of making sense of this is that Laenor become too depressed to do anything, Alicent protects Cole, and the king is too weak to do anything.
@@poenpotzu2865 Honestly same. I'm just reconciling myself with it for now. I hope it's not a glimpse into things to come.. that world-important considerations are just left dangling like this since they're not plot-important, i guess
Imagine the videos on YT if that murder during the wedding happened in RoP without consequences
yet ......
When the fight broke out at the wedding who else heard Bobby B's voice echoing "STOP THIS MADNESS IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING!"
Anyone?
Imagine being scared that Rhaenyra would put your children to the sword.... when your family is actually actively scheming to steal her birthright from her. The audacity.
The Hightowers aren’t “scheming” to steal anything. Otto is simply observing the reality that the realm will not accept a woman on the Iron Throne, and Rhaenyra’s best chance to secure her succession is to end Alicent’s line.
@@Longshanks1690 but otto was the one who set up this situation, he even gets orders from his brother to make sure their blood ends up on the throne, that sounds like scheming to me.
@@Longshanks1690 Otto: Yo, Alicent, why don't you wear one of your mother's dresses and comfort the king?
Hobert: Yo, Otto, make sure that Aegon becomes the heir
Otto: Yo, Alicent, make sure Aegon becomes the heir
"The Hightowers aren’t “scheming” to steal anything." okkkaayyyyyy
@@poenpotzu2865 Of course they’re self servicing, because literally everyone in Westeros is. All the Hightowers did was cut ahead of the rest of everyone else and get Viserys married to one of them.
A second wife was inevitable, meaning a son was also likely inevitable.
Yes, Otto forced Alicent into this position but the fact of the matter is that Rhaenyra would have to climb over the bodies of someone’s children if she wanted to ascend the Iron Throne uncontested, which is what Otto is pointing out because the realm yearns for a King.
@@Longshanks1690 Otto is a schemer. His house is actively scheming
Seeing as house of the Dragon is a prequel and not a sequel, the title is technically correct, which we all know is the best kind of correct.
Also a neat detail was Rhenyses's surprise when holding Vyserys, because Greyscale took his fingers and he is wearing gloves to hide that fact. I am surprised he can still use utensils.
It hurts to watch a show where I know that so many characters I like will one day be at war with one another 😟
I agree with the filter. It’s very gloomy. Hopefully it lightens up a bit after the time jump.
Just loving the title, so clever
Rhaenyra and Daemon's arrogance I'm sure will cost them dearly I think what jumps out to me is how differently Alicent and Rhaenyra deal with their positions.
GRRM implies that HOTD is meant to be the true version of events (he is much more closely involved in the writing this time around) as opposed to the book which is more like a history book with biased accounts and obscure truths. So according to that what happened with Ser Christen and Rhaenyra in episode 5 is the actual story.
I swear the amount of rats in that castle, gotta get someone on that
Adding my two cents re the lobsters: Viserys is having a hard time "managing" it and it makes him look kind of ridiculous and impotent, so it's symbolic of the way he's ruling his kingdom: things are getting out of his control and he isn't capable of doing much about it without looking ridiculous. Think of the impotent, embarrassing feeling of having difficulties cutting up a finnicky, weirdly shaped, difficult to cut meal at a formal function with everyone staring at you.
Ser Criston isn’t actually in love with Rhyneara, he just wanted to restore his honor. He wanted her to leave her titles and duties, which would HER be abandoning her honor, just to go back on his own mistake. He actually tells her this was his honest motivation when she rejects him and he gets upset.
Congratulations on your engagement!
I feel like the cuts to viserys eating were supposed to show Alicent’s growing disgust of him while Rhaenyra is getting time with handsome young men
The chaotic lobster stabbing/eating made me think Viserys’ food was poisoned maybe. Or just a little nod to the brutality of the events to come in the series.
Can anyone explain how Sir Christan was at the side of the room, Damon has his hand on the neck of Ranira something he should be dealing with, then teleports to the middle of the dance floor beating sir kisses to a pulp? It feels like shots were cut out to explain what happened and where Damon went.
I have to wonder if misogyny plays a role in Criston's arc in this episode. When a high born *man* has a mistress or two, no one in Westeros bats an eye, but when Criston gets this kind of offer from a *woman* it probably feels emasculating. So to feel better he does a stereotypically masculine thing and starts a fight.
Magic was more of a thing back then, so Daemon could have totally been responsible for Rhea Royce's accident in the book, if only indirectly. Mysaria was rumored to have used magic, though that could just be slander. Aemon was also with a witch at the end of the book who too, so it's not like there weren't magical people around who could have made an assassination look like an accident. The Faceless Men are also a thing, though I have no clue what Daemon would have payed them to do the deed.
i think criston killed Joffrey as a last act of loyalty to rhaenyra so they'll be one less person that can expose her secret then he went to kill himself to punish himself for all the mistakes he made
I think he did it for himself. joffrey had no problem being in a relationship in secret while crinston hate the situation. I think it take what joffrey told him as a insult
@@theflashgordon193 to me it was obvious criston took it as a threat hes scared and paranoid and doesn't do well with secrets and then all of a sudden a guy he never met tells him there gona work together if he doesn't want his secret exposed so he couldn't take it anymore so figured hed kill one loose end and then himself saving rhaenyra from the scandal and to punish himself
5:46 *stunned pikachu face*
Great review. Subscribed and looking forward to more HotD thoughts from you :)
Would not use the word seduced for Rhaenyra and Criston in episode 4
Can I just make a note here of how I absolutely enjoy the titles of the episodes on this channel for House and Rings xd please continue as the titles are more entertaining that the tv series themselves 🤣👏👏👏
I think that the shots of Viserys overtly chopping that lobster (or whatever is on his plate) contributed to the tension of the scene (in addition to the cuts between shots becoming faster and faster) and also provided a bit of foreshadowing as to how that scene was going to end.
Omg! You just described how I feel about Alicent 🥺