This is exactly what I need. I took a 30 year hiatus from baseball and now I’m trying to learn all of the detailed intricacies of the game. I’ll be looking at more of your videos. Have you done one for all the different scenarios of a balk? If not, that is one I would like to see. Thanks and thumbs up for the video.
A lot of people (umpires, players, coaches and fans) try to learn balk rules by discussing what constitutes a balk. A better and easier way to learn balks is to study and learn the rule book definitions of the two pitching deliveries…the windup and the set. From there, study the rules about what IS permitted in terms of movement, continuation of movement, etc. rather than what you think may NOT be permitted. Once you have thoroughly learned what IS permitted, you can now work on training yourself mechanically that if you see something OTHER than what IS permitted you can instinctively call a balk AND…you can succinctly give a brief remark to a questioning coach or player. “Coach, from the windup, once he starts his motion by rule, he must continue the motion without stopping…in my judgment, he started and stopped and started again.” Or “Coach, from the set, by rule, he must come to a discernible pause before delivering the pitch. In my judgement, he did not come full set with a discernible pause.” and those are just some examples. If you call a balk, be prepared to give a brief explanation of why you called a balk.
Yes agree, nice work and a video of obstruction / interference specifically regarding what R1 must do after being forced out at 2nd on a dbl play. Believe the rule says "shall not interfere in any way." I always took that to be something overt, move into the path, raise an arm, etc... Had R1 not slide, not do anything intentional just stood there forcing the F4 to be late with his throw to 1st to retire the batter runner. Couple of my mentors said R1 has to veer off or slide or it's a dbl play due to interference.
With safety bags… all is good with this rule… up to the point of saying that the runner has to stay in the baseline, even if the baseline requires them to be out of the runners lane. That’s dumb. Awesome videos BTW. I’m a HS coach in IA. Been binge watching them.
Runner doesn't always have to go back to third. If he has obtained home before the interference happens, the run counts, unless, of course it's the third out. 8-2-9
Patrick, thank you and GHSA for the excellent video series. 8-4-1g 1. “Or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw.” I understand the questions are designed to progressively reinforce our comprehension of the main points; however, calling a 10 foot high throw over F3 as runners lane interference sounds like an invitation to a fight. Could it be argued, in the 10’ high overthrow question, that it is unlikely for the BR to interfere with a ball thrown 4 + feet above his head?
Just my two cents: I would argue that any illegal action (in this case running outside the runners lane in the last 45') that affects the play constitutes interference. We have to assume the 10' overthrow is the result of that illegal action.
If this was OBR, you would be correct. But NFHS rules don't depend on the quality of the throw. If the throw fails to retire the runner, and the runner is out of the runners lane, it is a runners lane violation. This is why technically the NFHS verbiage is "runners lane violation" and not Interference.
I'll add that the reason it is different in NFHS v OBR is partially because we don't want the catchers at this level to purposefully drill runners in the back with the ball to get the interference.
@@UmpireClassroom the guidance I've been given on calling RLI under NFHS and NCAA rules, both of which consider the effect on the fielder making the throw, is that the umpire should be able to make some judgment that the fielder made a bad throw at least in some part because the runner was out of the lane. The most obvious example that is RLI in NFHS and NCAA but not in OBR is the fielder tries to lob the throw over the runner out of the lane, and ends up sailing it over F3's head. However if F2 is scrambling after the ball, and then makes an off-balance, wild throw 15 feet from F3 and nowhere near the runner, RLI should not be called. 8-4-1g(1) "This infraction is ignored if.... the runner does not interfere." Umpire still gotta umpire, we can't say this call is automatic simply because the throw does not retire the runner who was out of the lane; also we can have a throw the DOES retire the runner and still call RLI. Interference is interference even when the defense makes the play anyway.
Another question: The rule 8-4-1g 1. (edited) states that the infraction is ignored ... if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw. I could see if the catcher double pumps or hesitates and then throws to first because the batter-runner is in fair terriroty outside the runner's lane. What if it just a lousy throw?
I want to understand where the lines are drawn on a throw to first base. Three situations: 1. Say the B-R is running just inside fair territory, say one foot in fair one foot in foul territory, in the runner's lane. The catcher fields the ball, F3 reaches out in fair territory and gives the catcher a clear target. The throw is perfect, hits F3's mitt right in the pocket and pops out. B-R is judged by the plate umpire not to have interfered with the throw. 2. Say the B-R is running in the runner's lane all the way down to first and at the last second steps over the foul line to step on first base. Same situation as 1. F3 muffs the throw, not due to interference by the B-R. 3. Say the B-R is outside the running lane, one foot stepping in fair territory the other in foul territory. The Catcher makes a throw but in his rush to throw the ball to first, throw the ball away (into the ground, slips out of his hand even though he's throwing to first, or just makes a bad throw having nothing to do with the B-R running outside the runner's lane. 4. Say the B-R is outside the running lane, one foot stepping in fair territory the other in foul territory. The catcher hitches because the B-R is or will be in the way of the catcher's throw to first. In other words, he hesitates because of the B-R running outside the running lane, not having a clear throw to F3. OK, I can see on the throw, if it is off or wild, that would be interference by the B-R. If he retires the B-R I assume that RLI is ignored? As you stated before, there must be a throw so if the catcher gives up and does not throw, for whatever reason, maybe because there are multiple runners and doesn't want to throw the ball away. That would not be RLI because there must be a throw. Just trying to understand and verify the interpretation of the rule. I checked the case book and can't find anything that covers this. I've also checked Carl Childress' Baseball Rule Difference book, last published in 2016 as he passed awy. I didn't see anything that covered this specifically. Excellent book by the way, even though it is 8 years old now.
What if the runner is not in the running lane the entire distance? Is the runner protected if they enter the running lane at 60 feet from the plate? Is the runner protected as long as he is in the running late when hit by the throw?
In theory, he is supposed to be in the lane the entire last half distance except the last step, slide, stride or dive. In reality, if from the time the fielder is starting to make the throw the runner is in the lane, I don't see it being called.
Google Trey Turner runner’s lane interference for an example of that. He was correct called out twice for RLI when he was with the Nationals. I think one of the times was a playoff game. The ball was not hit into play with a bunt but, the throw comes from the 3rd base side of the field.
I see in 8-4-1g that the BR is out. But I don't see in the rules that interference is called, nor dead ball, nor that other runners go back. (Which is how you present many of the case plays.) Can you comment?
What if it’s a second throw? On the back end of a bases loaded double play. F6 goes home to F2 then F2 going to F3 hits the runner who’s outside the lane while hit with the throw.
What if the Batter-runner seeing that F3 is going to field the ball, and will likely make a play on R3 at the plate, runs further into fair territory to line himself up between F3 and the play at the plate? But the batter-runner does not make any movements to intentionally interfere such as throwing his hands up in the air to block F3's throw.
I apparently failed to answer #8 as I got it in red with what I know to be the correct answer given below... but, the feedback given as explanation has nothing to do with this play: "Feedback The runner's lane only applies to the "last half of the distance from home plate to first base." In NFHS baseball, the base path is 90 feet. In this scenario, B2 has not reached the halfway point." This feedback must have been meant for #7
There is a huge difference between the running lane rule in NFHS baseball vs. softball. Hopefully umpires who work both sports can differentiate. The softball rule is more sensible where the running lane protects the batter-runner from interfering with a throw being RECEIVED by F3. If the batter-runner never establishes herself in the lane, the umpire must consider the throw to be catchable by F3 for it to qualify as interference. If the throw is wild, and F3 cannot possibly catch it, how is the batter-runner ever responsible for that, running lane or not?? Rules in other jurisdictions, even age groups younger than high school follow this logic. Catchers should be taught at an early age to establish a good throwing lane and NEVER try to throw over or around a runner. By high school age, basic catcher mechanics including this one should be well understood by baseball catchers!
I have a question on RLI when it deals with a fielder fielding the ball and the fielder misplays the ball. I would like to reference the video that is out there MIL@Col Hundely out for not being in the runners lane ruclips.net/video/nCXaKfBgbYk/видео.html In this scenario, is this RLI by NFHS rule? Someone in our association referenced Rule 8-4-2g as he moved out of his original position. I applied 8-4-1g as the runner was not in the runners lane at the time of the infraction. The other situation on this, the fielder misplays the ball and it rolls into the runners lane. The Fielder and the Runner both go into the runners lane and we have a collision. What do we have? Train wreck? RLI (Since he never was in the runners lane prior to moving into the lane)? Obstruction? 8-4-2g talks about a fielder not be protected if he is moving from original location after misplaying the ball. Is there any guidance on this in NFHS like there is in NCAA or OBR
In the video, I may go with a no call just because the runner ended up on the bag and it was the first basemens error that caused all the issue. I don't necessarily have a rule to reference on that. Just not sure I would be able to process it 😅
Now let's talk about the hard one. Let's say the exact play happens, except in the runners lane. Well, while we may not have RLI, but we could have interference. The runners lane doesn't protect the runner for everything. For example, a pop-up in the RLI would require the batter runner to go around the fielder.
The NFHS definition of "base path" used for baseball and softball is outdated and clear as mud as written. It first states that it is the "traditional path traveled by a runner attempting to advance". The very next sentence, for some reason, ties it to a direct line between two bases. "Traditional path" is irrelevant to where runners may run in the absence of a tag attempt. What is "traditional"? The path taken by a fast runner will never be the same as the path taken by a slow runner. There is no rule that locks a runner into a specific path until a tag attempt begins. Normal base running rarely follows a true direct line between bases. Runners' paths often take them well away from baselines. NFHS baseball and softball should adopt the NCAA softball definition of Base Path, which is clear and concise. Unlike the NFHS rule, the NCAA rule also allows for returning to a previous base. A "Base Path" is actually a 6' wide straight corridor centered between the runner and the base he/she is running toward and is established when a tag attempt begins. After passing 1B, a runner always has two base path options, one advancing and the other returning. "Baseline" establishes nothing more than the distance between bases when laying out a field. "Base path" establishes constraints for base runners when a tag attempt begins. 🤔
This is exactly what I need. I took a 30 year hiatus from baseball and now I’m trying to learn all of the detailed intricacies of the game. I’ll be looking at more of your videos. Have you done one for all the different scenarios of a balk? If not, that is one I would like to see. Thanks and thumbs up for the video.
A lot of people (umpires, players, coaches and fans) try to learn balk rules by discussing what constitutes a balk. A better and easier way to learn balks is to study and learn the rule book definitions of the two pitching deliveries…the windup and the set. From there, study the rules about what IS permitted in terms of movement, continuation of movement, etc. rather than what you think may NOT be permitted. Once you have thoroughly learned what IS permitted, you can now work on training yourself mechanically that if you see something OTHER than what IS permitted you can instinctively call a balk AND…you can succinctly give a brief remark to a questioning coach or player. “Coach, from the windup, once he starts his motion by rule, he must continue the motion without stopping…in my judgment, he started and stopped and started again.” Or “Coach, from the set, by rule, he must come to a discernible pause before delivering the pitch. In my judgement, he did not come full set with a discernible pause.” and those are just some examples. If you call a balk, be prepared to give a brief explanation of why you called a balk.
Excellent demonstration and explanation.
Nice job Patrick. I'd like to see a video on obstruction and interference.
Thanks for watching!
Yes agree, nice work and a video of obstruction / interference specifically regarding what R1 must do after being forced out at 2nd on a dbl play. Believe the rule says "shall not interfere in any way." I always took that to be something overt, move into the path, raise an arm, etc... Had R1 not slide, not do anything intentional just stood there forcing the F4 to be late with his throw to 1st to retire the batter runner. Couple of my mentors said R1 has to veer off or slide or it's a dbl play due to interference.
This is such a good resource. I hope you will do some field mechanics videos. Thanks again
With safety bags… all is good with this rule… up to the point of saying that the runner has to stay in the baseline, even if the baseline requires them to be out of the runners lane. That’s dumb.
Awesome videos BTW. I’m a HS coach in IA. Been binge watching them.
Excellent info, thanks from Houston County Umpires😊
For reference the Runners Lane is defined in section 1-2 Article 5 and Diagram 2. For new umpires it may be worth mentioning in a future video.
Thanks for adding that!
Runner doesn't always have to go back to third. If he has obtained home before the interference happens, the run counts, unless, of course it's the third out. 8-2-9
Could you cite the rule that supports this?
Patrick, thank you and GHSA for the excellent video series. 8-4-1g 1. “Or if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw.” I understand the questions are designed to progressively reinforce our comprehension of the main points; however, calling a 10 foot high throw over F3 as runners lane interference sounds like an invitation to a fight. Could it be argued, in the 10’ high overthrow question, that it is unlikely for the BR to interfere with a ball thrown 4 + feet above his head?
Just my two cents: I would argue that any illegal action (in this case running outside the runners lane in the last 45') that affects the play constitutes interference. We have to assume the 10' overthrow is the result of that illegal action.
An infraction that affects the defense’s ability to make a play, I see the intent. “Sorry Coach, I don’t like the rule either.”
If this was OBR, you would be correct. But NFHS rules don't depend on the quality of the throw. If the throw fails to retire the runner, and the runner is out of the runners lane, it is a runners lane violation.
This is why technically the NFHS verbiage is "runners lane violation" and not Interference.
I'll add that the reason it is different in NFHS v OBR is partially because we don't want the catchers at this level to purposefully drill runners in the back with the ball to get the interference.
@@UmpireClassroom the guidance I've been given on calling RLI under NFHS and NCAA rules, both of which consider the effect on the fielder making the throw, is that the umpire should be able to make some judgment that the fielder made a bad throw at least in some part because the runner was out of the lane. The most obvious example that is RLI in NFHS and NCAA but not in OBR is the fielder tries to lob the throw over the runner out of the lane, and ends up sailing it over F3's head. However if F2 is scrambling after the ball, and then makes an off-balance, wild throw 15 feet from F3 and nowhere near the runner, RLI should not be called. 8-4-1g(1) "This infraction is ignored if.... the runner does not interfere." Umpire still gotta umpire, we can't say this call is automatic simply because the throw does not retire the runner who was out of the lane; also we can have a throw the DOES retire the runner and still call RLI. Interference is interference even when the defense makes the play anyway.
Another question: The rule 8-4-1g 1. (edited) states that the infraction is ignored ... if the act does not interfere with a fielder or a throw. I could see if the catcher double pumps or hesitates and then throws to first because the batter-runner is in fair terriroty outside the runner's lane. What if it just a lousy throw?
NFHS rule is very clear that just being out of the runners lane when any throw is to first base is RLI. Regardless of throw quality.
@@UmpireClassroom What about subsection 1 of the rule? I meant 8-4-1g 1. in the original question.
Should have referenced 8-4-1g 1 not 2.
@@UmpireClassroom Am I misinterpreting subsection 1.?
I want to understand where the lines are drawn on a throw to first base. Three situations:
1. Say the B-R is running just inside fair territory, say one foot in fair one foot in foul territory, in the runner's lane. The catcher fields the ball, F3 reaches out in fair territory and gives the catcher a clear target. The throw is perfect, hits F3's mitt right in the pocket and pops out. B-R is judged by the plate umpire not to have interfered with the throw.
2. Say the B-R is running in the runner's lane all the way down to first and at the last second steps over the foul line to step on first base. Same situation as 1. F3 muffs the throw, not due to interference by the B-R.
3. Say the B-R is outside the running lane, one foot stepping in fair territory the other in foul territory. The Catcher makes a throw but in his rush to throw the ball to first, throw the ball away (into the ground, slips out of his hand even though he's throwing to first, or just makes a bad throw having nothing to do with the B-R running outside the runner's lane.
4. Say the B-R is outside the running lane, one foot stepping in fair territory the other in foul territory. The catcher hitches because the B-R is or will be in the way of the catcher's throw to first. In other words, he hesitates because of the B-R running outside the running lane, not having a clear throw to F3. OK, I can see on the throw, if it is off or wild, that would be interference by the B-R. If he retires the B-R I assume that RLI is ignored?
As you stated before, there must be a throw so if the catcher gives up and does not throw, for whatever reason, maybe because there are multiple runners and doesn't want to throw the ball away. That would not be RLI because there must be a throw.
Just trying to understand and verify the interpretation of the rule. I checked the case book and can't find anything that covers this. I've also checked Carl Childress' Baseball Rule Difference book, last published in 2016 as he passed awy. I didn't see anything that covered this specifically. Excellent book by the way, even though it is 8 years old now.
What if the runner is not in the running lane the entire distance? Is the runner protected if they enter the running lane at 60 feet from the plate? Is the runner protected as long as he is in the running late when hit by the throw?
In theory, he is supposed to be in the lane the entire last half distance except the last step, slide, stride or dive. In reality, if from the time the fielder is starting to make the throw the runner is in the lane, I don't see it being called.
Was disappointed that you didn’t have a case play with a bunt up 3rd baseline and a throw by f5 to f3 with the bt out of the runners lane
Google Trey Turner runner’s lane interference for an example of that. He was correct called out twice for RLI when he was with the Nationals. I think one of the times was a playoff game. The ball was not hit into play with a bunt but, the throw comes from the 3rd base side of the field.
If a runner is called out for leaving the base path to avoid a tag, is it still a live ball?
Yes it is! Good question!
I see in 8-4-1g that the BR is out. But I don't see in the rules that interference is called, nor dead ball, nor that other runners go back. (Which is how you present many of the case plays.) Can you comment?
What if it’s a second throw? On the back end of a bases loaded double play. F6 goes home to F2 then F2 going to F3 hits the runner who’s outside the lane while hit with the throw.
Still RLI as it is a throw to first base to make a play on the batter runner.
What if the Batter-runner seeing that F3 is going to field the ball, and will likely make a play on R3 at the plate, runs further into fair territory to line himself up between F3 and the play at the plate? But the batter-runner does not make any movements to intentionally interfere such as throwing his hands up in the air to block F3's throw.
If you think he intentionally moved to interfere with the play, that's interference.
I apparently failed to answer #8 as I got it in red with what I know to be the correct answer given below... but, the feedback given as explanation has nothing to do with this play:
"Feedback
The runner's lane only applies to the "last half of the distance from home plate to first base."
In NFHS baseball, the base path is 90 feet. In this scenario, B2 has not reached the halfway point."
This feedback must have been meant for #7
There is a huge difference between the running lane rule in NFHS baseball vs. softball. Hopefully umpires who work both sports can differentiate. The softball rule is more sensible where the running lane protects the batter-runner from interfering with a throw being RECEIVED by F3. If the batter-runner never establishes herself in the lane, the umpire must consider the throw to be catchable by F3 for it to qualify as interference. If the throw is wild, and F3 cannot possibly catch it, how is the batter-runner ever responsible for that, running lane or not?? Rules in other jurisdictions, even age groups younger than high school follow this logic. Catchers should be taught at an early age to establish a good throwing lane and NEVER try to throw over or around a runner. By high school age, basic catcher mechanics including this one should be well understood by baseball catchers!
I have a question on RLI when it deals with a fielder fielding the ball and the fielder misplays the ball. I would like to reference the video that is out there MIL@Col Hundely out for not being in the runners lane ruclips.net/video/nCXaKfBgbYk/видео.html In this scenario, is this RLI by NFHS rule? Someone in our association referenced Rule 8-4-2g as he moved out of his original position. I applied 8-4-1g as the runner was not in the runners lane at the time of the infraction. The other situation on this, the fielder misplays the ball and it rolls into the runners lane. The Fielder and the Runner both go into the runners lane and we have a collision. What do we have? Train wreck? RLI (Since he never was in the runners lane prior to moving into the lane)? Obstruction? 8-4-2g talks about a fielder not be protected if he is moving from original location after misplaying the ball. Is there any guidance on this in NFHS like there is in NCAA or OBR
That's a really tough one!
In the video, I may go with a no call just because the runner ended up on the bag and it was the first basemens error that caused all the issue. I don't necessarily have a rule to reference on that. Just not sure I would be able to process it 😅
Generally though, ball being fielded to first base like this, you could definitely make the RLI case at all levels.
Now let's talk about the hard one. Let's say the exact play happens, except in the runners lane.
Well, while we may not have RLI, but we could have interference. The runners lane doesn't protect the runner for everything. For example, a pop-up in the RLI would require the batter runner to go around the fielder.
@@UmpireClassroom Thanks for the comments. Much appreciated.
The NFHS definition of "base path" used for baseball and softball is outdated and clear as mud as written. It first states that it is the "traditional path traveled by a runner attempting to advance". The very next sentence, for some reason, ties it to a direct line between two bases. "Traditional path" is irrelevant to where runners may run in the absence of a tag attempt. What is "traditional"? The path taken by a fast runner will never be the same as the path taken by a slow runner. There is no rule that locks a runner into a specific path until a tag attempt begins. Normal base running rarely follows a true direct line between bases. Runners' paths often take them well away from baselines. NFHS baseball and softball should adopt the NCAA softball definition of Base Path, which is clear and concise. Unlike the NFHS rule, the NCAA rule also allows for returning to a previous base. A "Base Path" is actually a 6' wide straight corridor centered between the runner and the base he/she is running toward and is established when a tag attempt begins. After passing 1B, a runner always has two base path options, one advancing and the other returning. "Baseline" establishes nothing more than the distance between bases when laying out a field. "Base path" establishes constraints for base runners when a tag attempt begins. 🤔
We don’t need no stinkin softball terminology.
@@rayray4192 LOL! Perhaps you should broaden your horizons!