Subsonic v Supersonic for long range 22LR
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- Опубликовано: 31 авг 2021
- FYI, the noise on the Velocitor is the loud sound of the more powerful report, bouncing back from the star pickets of the fence along side us in the shot.....also just there with the Fed HV ammo, all about the fence, lol, Cheers
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Here on 4AW we try to answer/acknowledge/thank all the comments, thank you.
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I've been shooting and reloading for 60+ years and I'm still learning thanks to videos like yours. Thanks.
Awesome, glad you liked, thanks Man, Cheers
Can you tell me whats the best spect on ammo for a RUger 10/22 if i want to hunt at 50 yards?
@@alexstrings literally any ammo would work if ur shooting at 50 yards but i’d say use any cci hollow points or winchester super x but rlly any ammo will kill woodchuck sized game with ease at 50 even 100 yards w good shot placement
@@joshwiel3 You were right. Love my ruger 10/22! Thanks!
I have 25 years experience in shooting.. reloading and hunting.. I still learned something... great job
Cheers Scott, thanks man
I'm always trying to stretch out my 22, definitely appreciate this one. Great video, thanks from here in South Carolina 👍
Cheers Man, thanks
Thank you Mark and Sam. Your videos are always outstanding.
Thanks Man, Cheers
Great video! Answered alot of questions in my pursuit of 22lr long range shooting. Thank you
Cheers
Great video! 16 minutes of actual testing debunkes countless hours of myths retold by folks who never tried. I'm 6 months into shooting a RPRF and loving it, but iv avoided any ammo over 1100 fps because EVERYONE told me it's terribly inaccurate. 👍
Cheers Larry, thanks
shot a rpr 6mo,its a target brl it like slower vols for sure.ive since added a 457 it does good with the higher vol ,like eley club, i miss paying cci standard vol prices .
@@michaelmuzzy8401 Curious which CZ457 your running? I have 2, the varmit Precision chassis model, and varmit precision trainer match in the Manners stock. Both of them have heavy target barrels. I guess the royal has a thinner profile barrel, but there are probably 30+ 457 models, so I certainly don't know all about them.
@@Tbowie13 the varmet precision chassis,(green).
Great info. Thanks to the both of you, great channel.
Cheers Man, thanks
Hi Guys. Thanks for sharing your results. Informative and entertaining as usual.
Cheers Man, thanks
Wow Mark and Sam! I'm sitting here reveling in these results in that 'they' are full or bunk (as usual) again. Nice groups and nice results! Thanks for bringing us along!
Cheers Man, thanks
excellent vid guys, cheers.
Thanks Mat
Your findings echo my experiences and thoughts on this often times controversial subject. I now feel better knowing you have vindicated my findings. The next time someone doubts my thoughts on the subject I will be glad to refer them to this video, that should end the discussion. Thank you for bringing your wealth of knowledge and experience to the table!
Thanks Willy, Cheers
I have found myself referring lots of people to Mark and Sam's videos to defeat their preconceived notions on such subjects. Too many people on RUclips and the message boards seem to speak out of turn with no experience and they all just quote each other. I love the fact that Mark and Sam actually SHOW you the truth of the matter instead of just speaking about things they know nothing about. Love Mark and Sam and hope they never stop posting these videos!
Thank you Sir
I appreciate your time and help
You’ve done your part now I need to do my part
Cheers Bill Thanks
Hi Mark & Sam, great timing... was watching a guy ,shooting his cz457, a couple of days ago, and he was saying the total opposite, that you had to run subs to avoid bullets tumbling... So a BIG thumbs up for this video... thanks...
Yep they do get that wrong all the time, lol, Cheers
Thank you this is very informative, since I don't have 300 yard range to test, this is very helpful
Thanks Man, Cheers
Great video, great information. 22 long rifle is all I shoot. I've got an old Ruger Mark II, I bought new in 1985. It's been a great gun.
Awesome, Cheers
Great video, thank you.
Cheers
Great video. Thanks. I'm just getting into long range .22. Invaluable.
Cheers
1 test is worth 1000 opinions. Made a believer out of me. Good job!
Lol, yep, Cheers
I stay to the end on these vids. Aside from all the awesome info, I like the outro music. Thanks guys!
Cheers Man, thanks
Great info thanks for your time ✌
Cheers Joe
Thank you guys !!
Cheers
Thanks for another great video !
Thanks Man
Great review 🏆
Cheers
That's a GREAT review of quite a few kinds of ammo! 300 hundred yards, and all the ammo grouped very well!👍 This has opened my eyes because the farthest distance I can have among all the ranges around me is 100 yards, and I have never shot beyond 100! Damn it. 😣
Cheers Lie, thanks
Perfect explaining thanks 👌🏻
Cheers Wayne, thanks
Always cool to see .22’s going elr. Dad and I have a little range off his balcony where we shoot the .22’s at about 200m. We just put some clay targets out there on some stands. It’s amazing what you can do with a caliber that most only shoot at 25-50m.
Cheers
Great stuff again. Cheers
Cheers
I just started to teach myself how to shoot using a modern sling. Its amazing what a extra point of contact can make
Cheers
absolutely. Proper use of a sling makes an amazing difference. You won't quite match a bipod and bags, but you can get really darn close and you will be light years beyond what you can do without a sling.
Proper sling technique and bullet placement allows for even goliath sized game to be taken.
Great video guys 🍻
Cheers
Thanks! Good point made.
Cheers
excellent job!
Cheers
thanls a lot for your work°
Cheers
You guys are no BS love it,,, I've always felt like match ammo was designed for 50 yards anyway
Yep, Cheers
Mate, great video as always. My Lithgow 101 loves the CCI Velocitor. As accurate a any of the standard velocity ammo that I have tried.
Cheers Slade, thanks
great video
cheers
Thanks Bud!
Cheers
Thanks for this. I always use .22 HV. Many moons back I bought a box standard and a box short to see if I like it, never again. After seeing some videos where people recomend SV I started to Ponder if I must give it a try again, but not after this video.
Cheers Man, thanks
Great Video!
Cheers
Nice video. I shot rimfire benchrest at 50 yards and 50 meters for about 15 years. Of course we used subsonic ammo over high velocity because wind drift was much less. Eley Tenex or Lapua was the ammo of chouce by the majority of shooters, and Eley black box match. Conditions, i.e. slight wind angle changes play havoc with the bullets for sure. More than most folks realize.
Thanks Kent, Cheers
Great spotter all ways helpfull
Yep, Cheers
Love your .22 videos!
I've found over many years of shooting the .22 and rolling through every ammo available that most of the "match" grades live up to their claims in a controlled 50yrd. environment.
But when outdoors when you want it to do it's job, velocity is everything.
I'll outshoot CCI Stingers any day indoors with my best rifle and match ammo but if I take it outside the table turns in the Stingers favor.
First match 22lr rifle I ever had was a Clark Custom 10/22 that shot CCI Blazers and the Federal 550 bulk pack better than the Green tag and other match ammo. I'm sure the consistency wasn't there but group for group it was better. Settled in on SK Standard Plus for the best of everything. Still my best group was with Federal bulk 550 rds for $7.95 US.
Cheers
Final Option I agree with you 100%. For 3P shooting and benchrest the match stuff does what it says it will do, and still shoots well out to 100. That consistency really pays off, which is what makes it match ammo. But like you said, wind really starts to play hell on a slow moving bullet with inherently terrible BC. That's when velocity becomes your only ally out past 100 yards.
YES! Great video, perfect timing. I just got a Ruger precision rimfire. 30 MOA rail. Now I know what ammo to start trying. Thanks for the info!
I love my RPRF! Fun and Cheaper way to enjoy shooting every weekend.
Awesome, Cheers
I got an RPR rimfire recently as well. I’ve tried 17 types of .22lr through it so far. SK pistol match (yes I know it’s optimized for pistol) and Aguila match ammo. Yes Aguila.
@@stevennewman4778 I'm shooting Norma-tac22 pretty well and SV CCI. I didn't have much success with Aguila 40gr or Eley match.
I really loved this video! This is something that I can try.
Awesome, Cheers
Excellent.
Cheers
Debunked the myth of the transonic.. great video and great shooter!
Cheers Man
This was a very nice & informative video you two.......In my 2001 Marlin model 60 it seems it likes SV ammo a little better than HV ammo and the only Hyper stuff I have used was CCI Stingers which was the worst of the three.......And it was only at 100 yds also.
Cheers
Amazing video!!! Never imagined I’d see 22 LR’s going out to 300 yds, let along 1000 yds!!!
Yep, Cheers
on ty,womfat.(canadan nrl22) does it
Plenty of vids on the net
Great video. For me it is quite a shock how accurate the .22r is at longer ranges.
Cheers
Man that lil cz rig put its in there!!!🎯🎯🎯
Cheers
Spot on.
Cheers Man, thanks
I have been using velocitor and been blown away with its speed weight and accuracy. It aint tenex but it is great at terminal effect.
awesome, Cheers
Thanks 👍
Cheers
Great data ......yup
Cheers Jay
We have a ammo shortage now. Yes we always a year behind. Our gunstore only had 3 bokse of s&b 40gr HV. Went rock hyrax hunting with my bruno mod2. Much impressed and its super cheap.
Cheers Johan,
Thank you, for the comparison between the various sub vs supersonic types. It was well done. You have given me some ideas about trying various sub vs super at various distances. I have some Augila 40 grain subsonic solid that I want to test against CCI Mini-Mags at 50, 100, and at 200 yards with my Ruger 10/22 LVT replaced with a lighter weight BX trigger and mounted with 3x9-40 Vortex scope shooting "off the bag." Cheap rig like this might determine differences in accuracy of sub vs super for this rifle. I really like your channel, so I subscribed. Keep up the good work and thanks again for great video.
Thanks Dan, glad you liked. Cheers
You will get about 200 fps slower speed from your 10/22 as you would with a bolt action rifle with a 20 inch barrel
Hands down... The best RUclipsrs ever!
200 yds 40 grain is my go to. I can hit a 6 inch plate 22 out of 25
Cheers Yong, thanks
22lr is a ton of fun. I love my big guns but the 22 is my go to for fun.
Cheers
Great video mate 👍 I found that the Eley 42g 1250fps is very accurate on loner distance. I didn't shoot it over 100m but on 100m it's the most accurate of all I've tested so far with my Tikka t1x. Regards from Ireland 🇮🇪.
Cheers
well, Mark and Sam, i'm going to find some of the Velocitor Ammo, all four did well, but the Velocitor was very good, i shoot mostly SK Standard, out to 250 yards. Thanks for the great work,
Cheers
Nice video. It's not easy to find ranges where you can stretch out the bigger calibers. But doing it with a 22 you can do it on any range. Good training and a lot cheaper.
yep, Cheers
22lr is really fun 👍👍
Cheers
Just did have this sub vs. super long range rimfire conversation with my buddy yesterday at the gunshop. I had myself pretty convinced that the transonic would mess things up, but you two know a heck of alot more than I do about long range. Thanks for your help...this info could help tighten things up! Cheers!
Cheers
Transonics rarely give problem for typical round nose, and relatively short bullets ( handgun bullets do not care about it). It's another story with long, streamlined riffle bullets
@@imeprezime1285 Yeah, I've done alot of digging into the matter in the last few days. Seems that projectile shape is a pretty big deal. I guess that's why rounds like a 45-70 and so on have thrived for as long as they have!
@@Tbowie13 I used to have better groups at 50 and 100 yards with 22 LR HV match ammo than with subsonic/standard velocity 22LR. But experiences may differ from riffle to riffle and ammo to ammo
@@imeprezime1285 Thanks! I've ordered some HV match ammo to test with and see since Mark said what he did. The subsonic myth is really put out there hard by the community. Maybe people just want to sound smart and start parroting what others have said cause it sounds correct with what we know about high bc projectiles? I don't know but I took Mark at his word, he's way more accomplished than I am...if he says supers will work, then supers will work! Thanks again for the comment.
I shoot 17HMR at 50 YDS. (I know ...you can throw it that far) but CCI. from box to box can differ. But when I get a good box It's 22cal. groups. loved this video
Cheers Mike, thanks
I found similar results but instead of comparing a subsonic to the high velocity i shot both at 50 and then again further out and looked for an apparent change in accuracy. The high velocity didnt demonstrate any accuracy loss, out of what was expected, at the further distance. This demonstrated the high velocity can go through transonic without huge effects.
With so much more subsonic ammo on the market there is a much better chance you find your barrels preference in a subsonic vs a supersonic ammo.
Good video
Cheers
One of my grandfathers used to say "Believe 1/2 of what you see, a 1/4 of what you read and nothing of what you hear!". I find that to be so true in the shooting enthusiast world especially with regard to gun writers and magazines! You know that lot never a rifle they do not like! So many people just act like parrots!
Lol, Cheers
Hi Mark and Sam, Well i checked with some of the shooters at the range , Rayner's Range at Blue Rock, Oh, and my gun Smith, Brian, he knows about the Velocitor ammo, might have some, but found a store that has some near me, pricey but need to give it a try, Again Thanks for your great information video's.
Cheers Elmo
that explains why CCI Velocitor is among the most popular choice
Cheers
watching you put 8 inch groups at 270 meters is great . i am happy with my 30 / 50 meter shots into the pesky wabbits .
Lol, Cheers Man
Great content. I really like the Velocitors out of my Kidd barrel.
Cheers
The target is like your best friend, you may mot like what it says but it will not lie to you. Lots of people are going to be unhappy with this truth.😎. Another great video, thank you.
Yep, thanks Charles, Cheers
I just got a brick of velocitors. I’m looking forward to trying them out at 400 and maybe 600 with hold offs. I can dial up to 550 with velocitors, 400 with standard velocity.
Have fun, Cheers
Hi Mark, you may have mentioned the barrel length. Apologies in advance if you did, but I do have a pump running next to me. Great video by the way.
525mm, Cheers
I discovered many,MANY years ago that with the little .22 LR, it is 40 grain round nose high velocity ,or hyper velocity for all my 22 rifles and pistols.
Thats all i buy,I dont waste any time buying anything else
Awesome, Cheers
I don't think that I've ever purchased supersonic .22 lr! I was always of the belief that subsonic .22 lr. was superior to supersonic in the context of accuracy. They do say that you live and you learn.
Great shooting, too. You deserve sponsorship by CZ, ACC and CCI! You made their products look very good indeed.
Thanks Dave, Cheers
How does Sam, call multiple shots after the target has been shot multiple times. You’ve got a keeper there mate. Well done you Sam.
Yes Sam does great work, cheers
Mark & Sam, 22lr is one of my favorites this was impressive, as I mostly shoot 50yrd bench
for groups and have never ventured past 150yrds.........maybe it's time !!........Thanks.
Cheers Henry, thanks
Check out Rimfire PRS or NRL22 long distance and challenging positions.
impressive accuracy at such a long range, totally serviceable for Hunting even Large Kangaroos when such good shot placement is possible.
I have to eye roll when I hear so many Americans say that it isn't a powerful enough round for most needs.
Cheers
Yes, one can dispatch a game like a large kangaroo with 22LR. Direct brain or heart shot, especially with velocitor, will be enough in most of the cases. But shot placement is everything. If you miss just a little, the animal would be just wounded and run away and die in agony days later. It's not ethical to hunt such game with 22 LR
Excelent. Chears
Cheers
The velocitor ammo has a differnt sound to it!!! You can hear it got more of a thump when it hits the target!!
Yep
I’ve used that ammo. There is a slight but noticeable difference in recoil when you fire compared to standard stuff. It’s good ammo. I like it. You can tell it’s got a bit more energy in it.
@@Jakefrc right on!!! I like gettin the rimfires out!! My son and i have alot of fun with them, sometimes more fun than the big guns!!!👍👍👍
What a way to start the day,the sweet smell of gun powder.
Lol, Cheers
Right. Keeps using CCI Stingers.
They don't work for over 200 yards for us, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork Mostly eradicating California Ground Squirrels. Long shot is 100 yards.
S&B Club is very consistent. Better than SK Std plus. I’ve been pushing the S&B as far as 430m but its tough at those distances. I find it’s more the wind than elevation that pushes me off. It’s difficult but so much fun!
Cheers
Ive had GREAT results with CCI mini mag 40gr target rounds out to 400yrds, I shoot at a 6in X 8in target.
Cheers
Great video
I am just setting up a long range 22lr
Been seeing so many guys say that slower is better.
But you just proved that may not be the case.
Curious to see how the velociter does at 50 and 100
We use subsonic out to 250 yards then step up for longer, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork thank you
Great work. Try 17hmr! You really call into question that claim of transsonic instability.
Maybe get one some day, lol, Cheers
Bonkers accuracy from a .22 at that range, up to 100 meters I find that subsonic is more accurate in my short (16”) BRNO. The Velocitor ammo needs only 3” elevation adjustment from a 50 metre zero, whereas subsonic needs 8”.
Cheers Paul, thanks
Thanks for the video i would have liked to have seen these groups side by side with 50 or 75 yard groups too
Thanks Man, but not about under 200 yards, we use sub for that, Cheers
Every 22lr is subsonic by 100 yards at sea level. 5,000ft altitude it might stay supersonic til 120yards.
22s are lots of fun! I shoot RWS Training, Riffle match R50 or R100 even Geco standard (same Manufacturer).
They are all Subsonics, (332 m/sec) . I got very good results with all of them. Maybe a bit more regularity with R50/100 But it's not worth the price...
🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🖖🏻
Cheers
What were your come-ups for each in your setup?
Great video, as always!
Thanks Matt, and over a year ago now, but would be the same for you, get out and try, lol, Cheers
I've definitely noticed a difference at shorter range with my old Win Model 52 Target rifles. If you are shooting just past that range where the bullet transitions, it doesn't get a chance to restabilize before hitting the target, but at longer range having the inertia to just get the bullet there is going to be more accurate. I have tons of .22 ammo from 50 yea4s ago, up to today. In the bulk plinking ammo made during the last Shortage in about 2009, that stuff can be pretty bad and affect accuracy more than backwash.
Cheers
I agree. I go for the best combo of accuracy and velocity in 22LR ammo. I never shoot expensive specialty ammo in a 22LR rifle. For my shooting I never saw any real return on investment with the hard to find exotic and super expensive match 22LR ammo. I am not shooting at the Olympics. LOL I routinely shoot 300+ yards off hand with optics with a semi-auto Ruger 10/22 and seldom miss when it is calm out. Get the wind call wrong though and you sure do miss! Mark a lot of people just parrot what the internet experts and gun magazine writers say with out actually trying things out for themselves just like barrel length and the "short actions are stiffer and more accurate" nonsense!
Glad you liked, cheers
Have you ever tested HMR 17? Just curious but I haven’t looked too see if you have in the past. Thanks for the videos you do!
We dont own one, cheers
But they have shot the .17 Hornet out to 650 yards.
Great video. I tried Aquila 60gr subsonic ammo because of a higher ballistic coefficient but found at just 40 yards almost every shot was keyholing on paper indicating to me that it was tumbling almost immediately out of the barrel of my Ruger precision rimfire . I think it will require a greater spin rate to stabilize than my rifles 1:16. Was hoping to try .22LR ELR with it. Not going to happen with this round for me.
Sounds about right, lol, Cheers
I wonder how those 60s would do through a standard AR barrel?
👍
Cheers
I really appreciate this video. I'm getting into 22LR as a "cheap" way to shoot hopefully at long range. I can go out to 500 yards, so stating 300 yards as "ELR" gives me some warm fuzzies. More on a practical level, CCI should pay you some commission as I just managed to score a 500 round box of Velocitor 40gr. Here in the States, ammo prices are still high and a lot of places are either out of stock, rationing, or both. It's a terrible situation! Although not as bad as some news I've heard out of Victoria. I hope things are going well for you.
Thanks Man, yes good over here, opposite side of the country, Cheers
I have best accuracy using CCI standard velocity and Remington cyclones also out of my CZ 452 Deluxe
Cheers
Interesting comparison of common cartridges in .22 lr... Was wondering if you have compared these in a faster twist barrel, (say 1-9 " twist ) and was wondering if your barrel in the test is a standard 1-16" twist...?
No I haven't, Cheers
Still surprises me how quick even standard & subsonic velocity 22lr covers 300 yards.
Yep, Cheers
Thank you for video. Is there any difference between round nose and hollowpoints bullets in 22lr ? Is it true that hollow points are more precise?
Not in what we have tested, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork agreed. In .22 the hollow points really suffer accuracy wise. I'm wondering if ElPasoDelKoleso is thinking about hollow point match ammo in centerfire rifles. That's a different story, and also a different design as a hollow tip Match King is hollowed to shift the center of gravity rearward for stability versus a hollow point .22 which is for punching squirrels harder.
What rifle have you used?? You shoot really nice !!
Cz 455, cheers