Subsonic v Supersonic 22LR ammo (300 yard groups)
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2022
- This is a video from a couple of years ago, still good info for those stretching out there 22lr's
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That said, not all are equal, Supporters (financial) and Customers get preferential treatment, go figure!
Supporters/Customers: we try to answer all questions that are applicable to videos and will even offer links to help answer questions if appropriate to the channel
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Ah, the humble little .22. Never to be underestimated.
Yep, cheers
Thanks you two. I DO LOVE my old .22 rifle! Long gone are the days we could collect pop bottles to sell, then go to store at the age of 9 or 10 and buy a 50 cent box of shells.
Cheers Terry
Did the same 1965
That sounds like a fantastic childhood.
Exactly. Zemple's Hardware, 50 cents a box. Yes, those were good old days. All said, though... We're living in the most exciting times in recorded history. Granted, the bad guys appear to be winning. But, we've read the end of the book and know well who wins.
We recycled before recycling was Cool! We sure did our part ......without virtue signaling.
Thank you Mark & Sam for all the hard work y’all do to keep us entertained .
thanks Man, Cheers
Loving all your 22lr videos. The style/production on this was great. I’m just getting back into shooting after 30+ years with a CZ457 Royal.
Awesome, and thanks Dan, Cheers
This channel has supplied me with so much useful information. I love shooting long range. And I love this channel.I give a big Thank you Mark and Sam...until you are better paid. This content is so much worth a monetary investment from all whom benefit from it.
Thanks Dave, Cheers man
That was surprising, thanks for the great information and research. 👍
Cheers Man
Beautiful. All my wet work is done with the humble 22. 50 rounds a week usually.
Cheers Glenn
Beauty as always mark and sam thank you kindly for all youve done and all you will go onto do ❤️
Cheers Man
My wife and I love watching you guys thank you for your time making these videos very helpful info we started to get into long range shooting
Thanks Alex, Cheers guy's thanks
Waiting to see Mark and Sam take a Daisy Red Ryder out to a 1000 yards . LoL 😂
Another great video thanks
Lol, Cheers
Super soaker
Very cool information. Thank you two for your wonderful videos. I love the Sam comments.
Thanks Wally
Fantastic, thanks much, this is perfect timing as I’m just going out for long distant 22 shooting within the hour and you even saved me the search for MOA and I’ve got the very same ammo, and shooting a CZ 457. As usual, great info and material!
Thanks Man
Excellent video. The trans-sonic zone topic is something I have not given much consideration in regard to the 22LR. It seems like velocity is King at these distances regardless. Thanks Mark and Sam!
Cheers Jeff, thanks man
An interesting video Mark, and what you say about the the projectile speeds makes perfect sense
cheers Nick
As usual Mark,
Always the best content.
Thank you!
Thanks Dave, Cheers
Thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge. Have a great day.
Thanks West, Cheers
Thank you for doing this! Everyone acts like I’m nuts when I say that at 250+ I like using CCI mini mag target 40grn rounds. I have a 5in by 6in plate at 400yrds and have had fantastic results. My little brother and I can routinely put 8/9-10 on that plate @ 400yrds.
Awesome, Cheers
I learned on a marlin .22. I still relish those by gone days. Bought when I was 12 yrs. Old. Never see that again. Thanks guys.
Awesome, Cheers
This should explain a lot to a lot of people!
Thanks Chris
Cheers! I really enjoy shooting 22 ELR. I often see (through my scope) the bullet coming on to the target from above.
Awesome, Cheers
Fantastic video and highly usefull.
I have recently been contemplating 22 ELR and you have definitely opened my mind and amswered so questions.
Awesome, Cheers
Very interesting and very informative study thanks for the hard work really enjoy your channel
Thanks Mark
Great video-like your set setup - the standard velocity .22 is all I shoot for small game in the swamps in Florida- and in reality it’s all i need - again great video 🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊🐊
Thanks Dave, Cheers
Thanks Mark and Sam . Informative and good video.
Thanks Dwayne
Once again great work.
Just setting up a LR. 22
Great information
Thanks
Thanks man
Man that's quite a poke for .22 cool video as always. Keep up the awesome work guys
Thanks Stan
excellent video Mark , that was very very interesting ...
Thanks Shane, Cheers
Thank you both for the videos and information. I too have found that the transonic stage has very little effect if any when shooting rimfire ammo at 200 yards or further.
Thanks Man
Great info and update on crossing the sonic barrier.
Cheers Bill
I'm a Velocitor user. I am also pleased how it feeds in my semi-autos.👍
Awesome, Cheers
You guys are awesome!!👍🏻👍🏻
Cheers Man
It looks like the Veloster ammunition did the best accuracy wise. I can also understand why it is printed on the boxes of .22 rimfire cartridges, "Dangerous within one mile or in some cases one and a half miles." Nice shooting again Mark and thanks for the explanation of the ammunition beforehand and after. It would be nice to see this test done with the .22 Magnum rimfire cartridges.
Different deal Cam, but we have a bit of that on the channel, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork I found the
.22 Magnum video. Shooting handloaded cartridges at 1000 yards. Wonderful! I can see that the bullets don't have much power left when they strike the target. When I was younger and working for John Martz Luger maker he built a .22 Magnum Luger carbine. I made the stock for it and we shot it out to about 250 yards with open carbine type sights and it shot well at that range. I found it difficult to see the holes in the target at that range even with a spotting scope.
Always appreciate more honest information. Bullet stability is amazing these days compared to centuries ago. Amazing form factors, sectional densities, and at proper spin rates. That's not to even speak of the engineering behind proper terminal performance on game (like partitions/bonding/jackets/solids engineered with proper skiving and hollow points etc...). Over the many years I've accumulated and stuck mostly with SK Standard Plus and CCI standard velocity. Never have tried Velocitors but they are clearly authoritative.
Cheers
When I get frustrated with standard velocity stuff at 300 yards on windy days I switch to Velocitors. They are quite excellent.
This was a great video. I just bought a .22 wmr just to stay above transonic longer than .22lr.
Cheers
Having a CZ455 I can say it is an absolute joy to shoot. ❤
Awesome, Cheers
Great work!
Cheers
Thanks for demonstrating.
Cheers
Thank you so much for the .22 coverage in long range shooting. With ammo so expensive now, my CZ 455 is what I shoot the most. Mine likes Norma Match best out to 200 yards but I do shoot some CCI and Aguilia. At 100 yards, the Norma Match groupings are 1 MOA and the standard and high velocity stuff is 1.5 to 2.0 MOA's. I'm now looking forward to stretching it out to 300 yards and will certainly take your advice and try the higher velocity ammo. Thanks again and please keep the .22 videos coming. There are not too many channels that cover long range shooting in .22 calibers.
Thanks Man, glad you liked, Cheers
Thanks guys. Very informative video!!
Thanks Man
I'm going to try those Velocitors in my 12rd Uberti Cattleman 5.5" bbl when I'm out enjoying shooting stationary clays on the 200m berm. Thank you for proving the transonic barrier isn't much of a barrier! I can't wait until the weather clears!
Awesome, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork You don't by chance do any international radio comms?
11m or Amateur?
Very good my friends
thank you Walter
Good video, and great information.
Thanks Man
Another perfect vidéo ! merci beaucoup
Cheers
Thanks for the effort with this. Certainly addresses some assumptions.
Thanks Ben
I am excitied to get out and try shooting at longer ranges.. now that I'm seeing 22's on the shelf locally, again :)
Awesome, Cheers Mike
Happy new year!
Happy New Year
Conclusive enough for me. Thanks.
Cheers
Thanks this is really informative!
Thanks Paul
Great video, thanks!
cheers
great that helps me a lot thanks
Cheers
velocitor from CCI is some good ammo
Yep. Cheers
Great info
Cheers
Nice shooting.
Thank you.
Cheers Rich
Another great informative video 😀 I use Lapua Midas Plus in my 10/22, just found it to be the most accurate but never taken it over 150yds. Perhaps I will give it a go out of curiosity 😀
Awesome, Cheers
My wife shoots 22lr competition. Eley Tenex has been the best ammo for her out to 100yds. She uses a 10/22 with a Tactical Solutions barrel. When things go right She often gets 5 shot groups that are one hole. She's tried dozens of different ammo types.
She's been thinking of trying longer ranges, so this information will really help.
Awesome, Cheers
I found that the CCI mini mags work very well out to 400. I’m pretty sure they’re tumbling at 600 as the drop is substantially more than what they should be, and I was only able to hit the target one out of 13 tries. I’ll have to try the velocitors next time at 600.
Yes should help a little, but sure gets hard out there, lol, Cheers
Examine how they hit wooden/paper targets at 600 yards. I can't be sure, but I guess it's just excessive jaw angle ( not the "tumbling") effect
Great content thanks for sharing
Cheers John
Great video
Cheers
Nice rifle Mark. Love your videos. Awesome channel ☝️👍👍
Thanks Lyndon
Great video. Point is, have a dedicated ammo or rifle for different distances. Out to 150, SV will literally stack on one another with a custom rifle. High velocity ammo for ELR where SV runs out of poop and its benefits are no longer viable. Thank you for your hard work!
Cheers
Luckily, using my 40X/Redfield Olympic sights on 50ft targets, the problems with the sub/std/hyper selection don’t really trouble me.
One of these days though, I’m going to pick up another 40X and throw a scope on it and you can bet that I’ll be re-watching all of these videos.
Great video, take care and be well!
Cheers Paul
last one was awesome group
Thanks Man, Cheers
Thanks Mark and Sam, very informative. I’ve tried Velocitor in my 16 inch barrelled CZ at 100 meters, much flatter shooting but my rifle does not seem to shoot it as accurately as standard velocity at that range. Cheers.
Cheers
my only XP with subsonic ammo is when my grandfather left me his Colt Woodsman, you cant shoot supersonic ammo through it. but I find the experience still good.
Awesome, Cheers
Great video, great shooting. Might try the cci again.
Cheers
Hi! My experience of velositors tells that there is variations of weight. Few of really heavy/light and two groups of weight. Around 1/3 0f a kind. In groups it means two group and fliers.. I do sort velocitors and use those two good sortiment. Pistol plinking will eat those heavy/ligt ammo.
Cheers
I really enjoy learning about what you found out. It's a pity that no match ammo is produced supersonic, otherwise with nice QC and high velocity it would be a game changer.
Agreed, Cheers
Muito bom!
Muito bem explicado 👏👏👏👏👏
Cheers
Pretty cool.
Cheers
High velocity ammo works the best for me at longer ranges. I came to the conclusion that a centerfire is the only practical thing to use if I really want to hit something . It gets frustrating to use so many rounds to hit something consistently like a prairie dog or crow size target even at 200 yards. It is great for wind, scope adjusting, and trigger let off practice. And of course cheap.
Improving the velocitor quality has possibilities. Good luck.
Cheers Bob
I use CCI Green Tag 40gr in my 10/22 clone and can put 20 round in one hole at 50 yds. It performs the best of all I've used.
Cheers
I built a custom-made .22 Match Rifle. It cost about $1,200, i have a 24 inch bull barrel with a 6 inch suppressor and a 16 power Leupold scope. I have custom-made hand loaded match cartridges. You might not believe it but I have it on video. I am able to get a 6-inch Group at 100 yards all day long.
Awesome. Cheers Noah
I would have shot 100.000 .22 over the years always high velocity of various types, and I can't say I have ever noticed a problem with tumbling etc.
Thanks Man, Cheers
I'm 14, and I got my MARK II GXP Savage 22LR. I used some Blazer ammo and hit a 4-inch target at 300 yards. I was crouching on the floor and used a Field Pod Max to hold my rifle. I had maxed out my scope turrets in elevation, so I had to do some Kentucky windage and aim a bit high over the target. It took me about 10 tries, but then I heard a ding, and it fell over. My scope has no mil dots or hash marks, just a plain old X reticle.
Cheers
Very nice to learn from your testing. Obviously more bang more distance with better groups, providing its a proper projectile. I’m testing Remington golden bullets hollow tip 40gr@ 1275 fps that cost $0.05 per round & Federal AutoMatch solid tip 40gr@ 1200fps that’s also $0.05 a round. From your testing I see that at those ranges, 40gr projectile is best for proper wind flow & ballistics. I’m testing with a CZ 457 Jaguar 1/2x28, 28” barrel, Anschutz 1710 22” match, Remington 550-1, Marlin model 60, Winchester model 52 sporter & model 74, Mossberg model 151, Wards Westerfield 87a & my Remington 572 pump. I’m looking into SK Long distance match & super long. Also some Norma offerings in 1010fps-1400fps match varieties. ELEY & Lapua I refuse to special order. If I can’t see and put hands on it. I’m yet to buy it. Thanks, I made sure to like & subscribe. Great Work, my kids and I love to learn.
Cheers Josh
I enjoy rimfire shooting and this test or proof session was very interesting and surprisingly, eye opening, so to speak.
Thanks Mark and Sam.
Awesome, thanks Reg, Cheers
Have you found any scaled parallels / patterns between the .22LR ammunition and your 45-70 experiments, for the similarities of bullet style?
I would think rates of twist would have considerable influence on stability especially in managing bullet behavior through transonic trajectory profiles.
I’m very impressed with LR groups you’re achieving with the various factory .22LR loads, especially for the amplitude of percentages of variance in these little loads, when compared to center fire ammunition, as you noted.
As always, a very informative and well done video.
Cheers
No, but we do spend lots time doing that sort of thing, Glad you liked, Cheers
The Velocitor really seemed to hit a lot harder proving that speed helps accuracy.
Cheers
Transonic is only an issue on over stabilised bullets, most 22lrs are fairly ballanced with bullet speed and twist rate.
We have vids on the subject, Cheers
@@markandsamafterwork comment was meant for the viewers, been a fan of you guys for time. All the best from UK.
I am not a nay sayer, I just want you to figure out how to tow a go-pro behind the projectile whilst it’s in flight. Lol
It would save a lot of paper needed to show bullets stable or tumbling. Great work Mark and Sam. Thankyou.
Lol, we have videos that explain, but bullet don't stay travelling straight when they tumble, so, at any extended distance, the grouping with tell you, Cheers
I'm glad mine shoots less than 300 yard groups.😁
Cheers
Thank you very much for all the content you share. A wealth of knowledge!
Cheers Man
I wonder what's keeping Lapua and Eley from making a cci velocitor equivalent. That's the biggest argument I've seen about the HV vs SV debate: the 'best' ammo is SV, so of course HV has to be 'worse'.
I like the Lapua/SK for semi autos. Greasier and slicker for more reliable feeding.
Cheers Man
Great channel. All business, no BS. Clearly it's the ammo, no skill involved, lol.
Lol, thanks Man
Showwwww!!! Belos disparos!!!
Cheers
👍🏻
Cheers
Excellent video as always and really informative
Follow up question; what about weight? I know thar a heavier bullet will have less drift, but wouldn't that also help with consistency? Also a heavier 22 would be longer, would a longer bullet tumbling be more accurate? Or less? It'd be interesting to see a long copper bullet the same length as a long lead bullet difference once at a tumbling range. Thanks as always, love your stuff, envious of your range and time out there 😅
Lots of videos here to help, but why would think a tumbling bullet is at all accurate, if they are tumbling they lose accuracy, Cheers
Wow
Cheers
So far been shooting the rimx with either cheap bulk or sk long range matchb mill
I've only gotten out to 455 yet...lol
Awesome, Cheers
👍😊🎯 I like CCI 22 ammunition tens to be cleaner for autos.
cheers
The Velocitor was impressive, I did not think it would group like that at 300. At 100 it's very inconsistent.
Cheers
Bardzo ciekawy materiał 👍
Pozdrawiam serdecznie.
Cheers
It occurs to me that round nose bullets may have better stability coefficients for a given twist, because they are shorter and have less center of pressure to center of gravity moment arm to destabilize them as they go through transsonic zone. But then you don't seem to find significant destabilization even in longer spirepoints....
We have videos that explain more, but yes all about levels of needed stabilization, Cheers
Subsonics are best for indoor shooting and household pest control. A 60 grain projectile under 900 fps won't go through a 2x4.
And you can shoot it without ear protection. Fired from a rifle, It sounds like a nail gun.
Cheers
Thx for testing that 22 cal ammo...could it be the lighter projectils weight the higher velocity should be choosen ?
No, maybe do some research on ballistic coefficients, things are opposite to that, Cheers
Cheers [_]) Mark & Sam I tried CCI Velocitor only at 50m through my RPR .22LR & it was a 5" group so not great, I have Lapua Midas + & Centre X ELEY match & High Velocity that I haven't used as of cost. But I am looking forward to shooting the ,22LR more now at greater distances. thank you.
Cheers
i have a 10/22 loves 1400ft ammo. have tried 10 diff speeds in it and it likes the fast stuff. but every rifle diffrent
Cheers
Thanks for this video, I need to give supersonic ammo a try again. What barrel is on the CZ 455? I have a 457 VPT but not a match chambered barrel. Wondering if I should change it out.
Factory Varmint
Thanks for the video but now I'm running 15 minutes behind schedule. HAHAHA (Just kidding.)
Stay safe. Take care. Have fun. 😎
Lol, cheers Gary
I'm gonna need a Gin & Tonic while intently watching this video.
Cheers