VLOG 570: is an M3 the chair for me?
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- Опубликовано: 10 июл 2024
- lets take a look at the permobil M3! first we adjust the seating, then pop a wheel off, and check out the suspension! (there will be more videos about this chair in the future!)
previous video this chair made an appearance in - - - • VLOG 476: more random ...
0:00 intro
3:29 seat adjustments
21:08 suspension teardown
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I'm getting an m3 version 2 in gold. I am not a fan of the orange piece in the hub so I'm glad they changed it.
I just got rid of my old tdx storm. It lasted 18 years.
Finally that we will be able to experiment with the new joystick! Man I want one of those!
Nice Permobil
OK now I'm super excited. My M3 needs all kinds of adjustments and this step by step will help me a ton. Can't wait for the light package to be installed.
Excellent video Dan. I like these kind of video's that show practical use of how to work on our chairs. I have an f3
Great video, my van will only work well with an M3, but it sucks as to ride quality when I have to go off hard surfaces.
Thanks for this video Dan! I took the body support completely apart, and this is a good reminder of how is was, how Permobil body supports work.
Great video. Looking forward to seeing the other videos on the M3. 👍🏻🙏🏻
We needed to move the seat back and get a deeper cushion for my wife on her blue M3. Turns out that Permobil has different lengths of side rails, and ours were not long enough. So we're dragging through the DME/Medicare process of getting longer rails and a full Roho cushion (which is what my wife likes). Also, fyi, the clips on the plastic shield over the leg rest are very fragile. I asked the DME repair person whether he had to replace a lot of those, and he said "yes."
The accent colored parts?
@@prettydisabled9060 No, he means the black plastic pieces on the front of the seat pan.
Thank you for this video, it was very informative, it's nice for you that you got a pretty new wheelchair on the fleet. I was reviewing specifications for their newest model and I think there have been some improvements to the suspension. Well done on another great video Dan :-)
Awesome video I always enjoy this type of video
Hot tip on springs: preload doesn't make ride softer, just lower. Look into springs rated at a lower N/cm (newton per centimeter) or Lbf/in (pound force per in). I was able to seriously soften up a quantum rival for a 130lb kid by finding $10 shocks for bikes rated at 450lbf/in, on Ebay.
Just found your videos 👍 great work , thank you . I'm in the process of getting a new M5 permobil and I've been looking for information. I like to adjust things myself , so being able to have a good look before I pull the trigger is really helpful. Thanks I'll be working my way through your back log 👍
I love this channel. Just got an M3.
Exellent job thanks mate 👍
I love my M3
There is a trade off with Mid wheels, You have to be prepared to trade agility for comfort. Personally I have to live with the added pain of a mid wheel as I live in central London. Just getting on off packed busses quickly and affectively means I need to turn on the spot. My local pub is 200 years old. It has chair access but it's small, compact and busy. If I could not turn on the spot I could not pop into the pub. Outside of living in dense urban environments mid-wheel chairs make little sense. There is the added traction being over the wheel gives which means I can go off the tracks when I'm in the local parks and woods with my kids but again, the cost is pain. Don't know if you tried pneumatic tyres yet but don't expect major changes, improvements but not game changer. Pain or access, Pick one. I'm looking at the M5 at the moment to see if it offers a better compromise but then it becomes a size issue. Everything is compromise.
like always, it educational. I love your T-shirt, its funny
Very informative as usual. Thank you very much. BTW, I have an F3 as well. The one chair that I find has better suspension is the Quantum Edge 3. Obviously, the Quantum has some serious reliability issues but I found it has the best suspension, based on the chairs that I have tried. Of course, I use my F3 at least 10 times as much. ;-)
thats what kills me about the 4front i used to have.. it rode SO WELL!! (but only for about 25 miles at a time before breaking lol)
I’ve been using my m3 for almost 2 years and started getting a bad jsm cable alert for the last few months. Took it into my providers office, they ran some tests and said they get the stuff within a few weeks. A few days pass on then my chair completely shuts off when I was trying to un-tilt, the screen stays off but makes the power on sound that was set. It’s been stuck in the tilt position for a week now and haven’t got any updates from when we called into their “emergency” number. I’m lucky my old chair is still in working order or I’d be screwed. It was a great chair all the way up until all that happened.
My brother just got this wheelchair but I think we need to align it because it goes to the right when moving back.
Have you done tutorials for installing lights on m3
24:57 according to an animation by Permobile, that "little thing" is indeed your shock absorber.
I just got my Amysystems M3 yesterday. The independent suspension on all 4 casters of my Amysystems M3 makes for a much smoother ride than the Permobil M3. Plus, they offer the latitude system (a seating system that lowers all the way to 5 inches off the floor) for individuals up to 300 lbs for the standard M3 and 450 lbs on their HD model. I highly recommend checking out Amysystems for a mid-wheel drive wheelchair.
awesome! glad ya like it! ive always liked amy systems.. i just wish they made a front wheel drive chair!
David Brian-- Do you have a link to the Amy Systems M3 ? Thanks.
You got the chair with the Honda tires on it I’d like to see if they will work on a m3
Permobil F3 weight My M3 is 430 lbs In Australia 3 years ago $32.000 AUD Over Priced
Hi Dan! My name is Joe. I’ve watching your videos for the last two weeks. I’m pretty impressed with your knowledge. Just want to thank you for passing on that good knowledge about what you know about wheelchairs. I’m telling you I’ve had nothing but bad luck with mine. What kind of wheelchair do you recommend for me to get. I’ve had a storm 3 and it been pretty dam good, but I think my motors are going bad. Any input. I’m pretty. Mechanical incline my only down side is that I only have the use of my right arm and my right leg. I need some information on my brake or on my motors. It seems to me that is what going wrong with it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciate it.
Sincerely,
Hopper Joe!
Really good video.. Very informative. Where can someone get an aftermarket backrest for a permobil M300 please?
depends on the brand - but most of them require an adapter to attach to the chair
Do you find that a front wheel drive is better than rear wheel for gravel and dirt?
I’m considering a Whill Ci2, any opinions on that chair?
How do you turn off the brakes?
How are you fix back
Interesting. Are US-built M3s mechanically identical to the Swedish versions (as I can see some aesthetic differences)? My M3 has transfer handles manufactured by Permobil, but side guards by Bodypoint - both have four screw holes but the side guards use a lever release rather than the screw+handle thing (have that on the transfer handles though).
thanks for this video dan! how about a tutorial on how to add an output module to control a device thru the joystick... such as a leg bag drainer?
ahh.. thats a great idea!! (however i think a programmer may be required to set them up..) i still need to test out the I/O module sitting here anyways :^)
@@TotallyNormal- i think you do need a programmer, plenty of r-net usb dongle on ebay... it's the permobil customized software programmer that you might have an issue with. but hey, if you can't use that i/o module, you can always sell it to me ;-) i think that module is non-specific and will work for any r-net chairs.
oh it works fine.. lol ive got an R-net dongle.. i just wanna see if theres a way to make it work WITHOUT one!
Muy buenos días como está mmm i pregunta es para aver si puedes Aser un vídeo que de como cambiar los rodamientos de los motores ya que tengo una silla m3 corpus permobil
I’d like to see air tire on it how much of a difference Would it make.
M3 or M300 may or may not be the same suspension, IDK, but the M300 with 8" castor wheels can be a pain when changing direction from forward to backward having a semi violent jerk in one direction or another.
I am new to wheelchairs. My connective tissue disorder makes a lot of my joints pretty easy to injure and at almost 65, my knees have about had it. I have been limiting my activities for many years now and recently tried a power scooter rental on vacation. Then I learned that power chairs with lift seats can make it possible to work at the kitchen counter again. Wow, I can go places and do things again, using a power chair! I bought a used M3 Corpus version 1 this weekend, so I really appreciate this video (and I will look for your others)! I figure this used chair will last me until I can’t walk, then I can get insurance to get one made for me. I learned how to adjust the seat and armrests today, and will look forward to seeing other videos you made for your M3. Is yours a model/version 2?
this one in the video is a v1
i think it was around 2019/2020 when they changed the plastics around. IMO these older ones look better, and have less rattly plastics :^)
9:20-- OK, you are extending the seat length so the leg rests extend out further. I have a question about seat location. Can the seat location be adjusted so that my weight is NOT loading the front wheels? I think the center point of my body mass needs to move back on my chair. However, what is a safe amount? You want the chair to be safe when it elevates and tilts. I suspect that's why they load the front tires...just to be sure you don't go backwards when elevated. Or, somebody wasn't paying attention when they built the thing.
Thanks Dan. I like this video. That sucks about the suspension. But still the best choice for me.
Do you have a video on how to replace batteries on an M3, and also what kind of batteries should I get for the M3?
Can you advice me what are the RPMs of stair lift 24v dc motors
i haven't work with stair lifts at all really.. a lot of electric motors should have a sticker on them somewhere with the specs listed..
At 17:04 you started talking about your cushion. I'm not in love with my current cushion and was hoping you could give your review and opinion on some of them
it really depends on the person. the best way to find one that works well, is at the seating clinic when they do the fitting for a chair. they usually have a stack of them to try out. for me i only use the Ride forward. if you have any sensation theyre not very comfortable.. but for me it holds my hips and lower back in place quite well. i used to recommend comfort companies (their prices were decent and good quality) - but they were bought out by permobil - and im not sure if they still sell directly to the public or not.
Are the Amy Systems Alltrack M3 and this one the same, or related? Because that's what I have, and Permobil comes up all the time in searches, like it's cross-referenced or something. And the suspension on mine suuuuuuucks. It's fast AF, but it's like driving a monster truck over cars. My spine is already crumbling garbage, it doesn't need help getting shaken to bits!
permobil and amysystems are 2 completely unrelated companies :^)
im NOT a fan of the ride quality on the permobil m3 chairs
Hey my M3 jerks when I move forward or back but mostly when I turn. Do you know if that is an adjustment like gear lash or brake adj... I know nothing yet but fixen to get an education real soon when I tear it down and hoping to get answers first!! Thanks in advance for any info from anybody.........
depends on a few things...
how old is the chair, how many miles roughly..
what type of surface are ya driving on when this happens? (carpet etc)
and does it happen all the time? or just occasionally?
@@TotallyNormal- If it sits for a while it is worse. The chair is 5years old and has the original batteries in it. The batteries last all day barely though.
We have tile and laminate wood floors.
It jerks mostly turning either direction on all surfaces. I thought for sure the gears had two planes of contact wore on them but I don't know. I am eligible for a new one but still want to get this one fixed for outside..
Hi there would love your advise I always watch your powerchair videos . I have been using a invacare storm 4 for the last 3 Years the only thing going for that chair is the speed lol. I'm a female age 38 so I don't like to go slow when out and about .
I'm about to purchase a new powerchair this summer mow I'm debating with the 4 front which I know you have driven but also the permobile m5 . I really could do with your opinion as I've never owned any of the brands xxx
i personally had a terrible experience with the quantum 4Front, and its reliability - as did a friend also. The permobil 5 series chairs have high speed motors, (7.5 mph) and are very good overall!
(the quantum 4fronts top out at about 6MPH)
@@TotallyNormal- thank you Soo much for your advise I will be placing a order for the m5 then on Thursday xxxx
hello Bro again.. so for better comfort, and better managing with obsticles on the road you'd prefer F3, Right?
front wheel drive chairs can take a bit more maneuvering at times, BUT the F3 does have a lot better suspension for sure. but after a few weeks of use, you'll never go back to mid wheel chairs! lol
@@TotallyNormal- thx, till i find f3 or f5 , i am happy with my c500 esp:) only downside is not that height elevator like in F3...
@@TotallyNormal- i have option to exchange my c500s for f5 with r-net and the modern color joystick, do you think its worth it? I had paid 1400 $ for c500 , for the F5 (used) the store wants 2800 $
the F5 is essentially the modern C500 :^) just make sure everything operates properly on it first!
@@TotallyNormal- thank you, one more question, have you weighted your F3? is it lighter than F5? cause F5 have 410 lbs , that little too much for me :(
Hey Dan,
I have never had a power chair. I’ve been using manual chairs for 19 years now, but my health problems are increasing, and they are trying to get me in a power chair now too help. I’m such a rookie and curious when you talk about the blue tooth capability with the joystick, does that mean it is possible to drive the chair with a smart phone onto a hitch rack? I can not buy a van & I am trying to find a way to load a power chair on hitch rack when I’m alone, if this even a possibility? I’m just used to taking apart my manual chair & putting in my passenger seat. I Appreciate any advice you can help a beginner like me with learning about this!
Thanks!
It’s good look at his videos watch them and you’ll know exactly what you want help me
Be careful there’s lotta junk out there
hey! so the bluetooth just lets ya operate a computer mouse, or control your phone with the wheelchair joystick. bluetooth driving of the chair isnt a thing just yet unfortunately :^)
as for hitch racks.. ya wanna be careful with those.. a lot of them are super weak and break easily.. also they tend to rattle the chairs like crazy and can cause issues with electrical connections coming loose, and / or road dirt and dust getting into the connections
@@TotallyNormal- Thanks Dan for this information, everything I am learning is helping a little more. I’m looking into the Bounder 300 with off-road package for my 1st power chair. I have watched MANY of your videos and it looks to be built strong, kind of more simple, durable, and able to handle sand and desert terrain which I have to deal with a lot. The 1st power chair they showed me was the Permobil F3 & it just did not seem like it would function well in the desert terrain of Arizona and a more complicated of a build with more gears and parts to break, maintain, repair, etc from what I have heard you say in your videos. Any advice or suggestions to help me decide on my 1st power chair from you or any others reading this I would appreciate Very Much! Thanks again to you and The Gamist for replying! As far as the rack build strength I have machinist and welder Friends that can make my hitch mount a solid build, but since no blue tooth driving ability yet, that means I will have to have my Brothers or Friends with me to be able to load my 1st power chair on my hitch rack and stick to my manual chair for driving alone to start. I just was hoping for some sort of independence loading my 1st power chair when driving. It would be a lot of work but I could do my same old routine with loading manual chair & then load/unload power chair and put the manual chair back in my SUV when I need to drive alone and independent. I have A LOT to learn about the power chairs, just kind of overwhelmed right now! Thanks again!
I think the actuator cost is based on what insurance will pay with no relation to actual costs.
Hello Dan, my name is Deanna and I am about to have a fit with this crappy company I am having to deal with, because they are the only one that takes Medicare! Anyway i have been researching the Permobil M5 and this is the one they told me i was aproved for, but now they are saying I was aproved for the M3! I am a T4 complete para with chronic back pain and i am normally in bed for the last 5 years, because of my pain. This will be my first power chair. Should I fight for the M5 due to their mistake? Is it a lot better ride as far as shock absorbance and back seat comfort? I also want to know what is your own personal chair that you swear by. I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. Thank you for your time in this matter.
i use an F3.. the ride quality on the F series chairs is a lot better than the M series.
however, the M5 is better than the M3 for ride quality.. but the F5 and F3 are my picks.
the 5 series chairs are hard for insurance to quality in most cases (as they are group 4) the permobil aggressive tread tires do help with the ride quality as well. front wheel drive chairs take some getting used to, and a bit more technique to maneuver around in, but i like them :^)
IMO the M3 rides like a shopping cart :^/ im not able to use one because of the bumpy ride quality
Try to get an M5. How is the M5 suspension compared to the F5 (non-VS) suspension?
Turns out on the M5 that’s exactly what they did.. they put another shock right next to that rubber damper thing! I haven’t personally tested out an M5 but everyone says they’re may smoother then the M3
@@TotallyNormal- they are hard to come by, even compared to F5s. But with more payers funding group 4 there will be more opportunities. But as you know Permobil is a big proponent of FWD and kinda offers MWD begrudgingly
Man i wish i found you years ago. Wife was getting new wheelchairs every 5 years but now we do not have the insurance to afford new chairs. Where do we purchase batteries and other parts needed for these Permobile chairs?
Thank you for a response
hey! theres a few websites.. the most recent one with a lot of permobil parts is buildmywheelchair.com/
then also monster scooter parts, and of course ebay :^)
special case ? hell no . I have a m3 and using a chin control, my joystick bounces everywhere. hence I'm getting a f3 ordered as we speak. wait question, I have a old m3 per 2016. mine uses a Bluetooth hub behind my back rest. now it's in the joystick? or because I use a chin joystick (well it's called a micro joystick I think ) do I need the hub still ? also is that a pre 2020 m3? because they have a new m3 and f3 that I believe have a better suspension.
the newer, larger joysticks have integrated bluetooth now (have been for a few years actually at this point) - the separate module is no longer required for phone, switch, and mouse control - FYI this M3 in the video is from 2017. im not 100% familiar with the bluetooth joystick setup you're describing - just to be safe, you'll wanna verify it's compatible. but from my understanding that extra BT module isnt required anymore.
Would the computer module ever damage the batteries?
Only when the chair is sitting, and not being used - the control system uses a small amount of power. So if the chair is going to be stored more than a few weeks, the breaker on the back of the chair should be turned off to prevent the batteries from being damaged, by being run super low over time.
@@TotallyNormal- I use it every day so I guess there wouldn’t be any point in changing it....I’ve changed all wires from the joystick to the batteries.
having battery issues?
@@TotallyNormal- Im the one with the jazzy elite 14 that kills the batteries after 2 months.
OHH gotya.... (i forgets lol)
Ok. Watched the whole thing. That little rubber "shock" is an elastomer suspension and it absorbs shock to the main wheel, under extension. You'd have to mount a shock on the other side of the gearbox to get dampening under compression. You'd also have to remove the elastomer dampener and that would loose coupling to the other wheel(kind of a stabilizer to transfer load to the other wheel, from the main wheel. But preloading the existing shock might be enough to get a similar effect without all the hoakeyness. That suspension is designed by a mechanical engineering summer intern. All bright eyed and full of ideas that will never work in the real world.
I wonder if they offer alternate part numbers for that elastomer shock, for different weight ratings. There is no way to adjust, other than changing the rubber compound, or the amount of rubber in it.
i went into more detail about different design thoughts in the video but it was getting kinda long, and ended up cutting a lot of that out. AFTER i published the video, i found out that permobil has a 'flex link pro' suspension setup on the M5 chairs.. its the same thing but they just added a small shock NEXT to the rubber damper thing! LOL. all i know is that type of setup (either one) wouldn't hold up to my type of abuse very well!
one of my thoughts was putting larger castors on the back arms to preload the rear shock, (since when the chair is sitting in a neutral position the shock is resting on its end-stop), and it would also change the angle on the dampener/coupler a bit.. BUT there's exactly 4mm of clearance between the existing back castors and the arm itself. i think there's some geometry with mid-wheel chairs that dictates the front castor arms need to effect the angle/positioning of the drive wheel while rolling over obstacles.. but it seems like there's gotta be a better design for all of that. just initial thoughts, haven't run any strain simulations on it at all LOL but i see chairs in other countries that seem to work fine without all of that, and just run swing arms front, and back with a big shock/strut up top! this is one of the times that i'd enjoy a sit down with the engineers and ask a few questions :^)
I took delivery of my M3 last week. I did notice that the M3 order form ( permobilwebcdn.azureedge.net/media/2ion1zlh/us-m3-corpus.pdf ) includes the following option:
M3 Corpus to M5 Corpus Conversion Quote for Price
This option converts the Base to Group 4 (K0877 / K0884) and includes: the 7.5 mph motor
package, *FlexLink Pro Suspension* and a 2 year warranty. The final price of the upgrade is
based on the items selected below. Please request a quote for pricing.
Permobil posted 45 minutes plus webinars both on the F3 any M3. Those included short segments by an engineer basically explaining the suspension upgrades on the F3 and how they came stock on heavy duty models. Unfortunately, I can't be more specific because I can't find the links to those webinars.
BTW, if you take another look at that link above it shows that the factory order has to specify one of 3 depths for the seat pan each of which has 3 inches of adjustment. Even though my Roho seat cushion at least 2 inches longer in depth than my Quantum, the effective length having to do with how much of the cushion is under the backrest, is shorter.
Hey Dan, when are you going to admit that you have a wheelchair addiction?
BTW, not only does the newer joystick have Bluetooth, it also has infrared that can act like a TV remote or a garage door opener. You might check that out as well.
ive got an addiction to making videos! lol and dont worry.. IR hacking is on the list as well ;^)
@@TotallyNormal- denial is usually the first symptom ;-)
@@TotallyNormal- God, grant me the serenity to accept the actuators I cannot change, the courage to change the configurations I can, and the wisdom to know the difference....
Hi, is there a video on the garage control setting? Please share.
Trail run with this chair now?
LOL im not sure if all those extra bits in there would appreciate the dirt.. BUT a mid-wheel chair would be more stable in the woods!
Orange Isn't My Color. I I Have A Red 2013
F3. It Has The Wide Arms. I was Wondering
If I Could Hook Up Lights On It?
& I Have Headlights & Taillights On My Quantom
Q 6 Edge & I Was Wondering If I Could Hook UP
Turn Signals On It. I Have An Egg Type
Switch On My Q 6 Edge. But I'd Probly
Need A Turn Signal Switch.
on the quantum chairs with the egg switch, the lighting is totally independent of the chair's electronics. if you want the ACTUAL headlights, ya need a different seating control module, and joystick for those.
I am at the end of my rope and I’m hoping that you can help, I have a Pride Jazzy Elite 14 that is 3 years old. About 7 months ago my batteries went bad, I noticed I was losing bars much sooner than normal so I bought new batteries and everything was great until approximately two months later when I started losing bars again and within a week I couldn’t go down the street without it stopping so I got a new set from the warranty,exactly 2 months later the same thing ...so I paid a technician to come and figure out what was going on with it, he checked everything and came up with I had bad luck with my batteries so I bought a set from him 2 months ago and now it’s happened again.....HELP!
Hey! a couple questions.. is the chair used every day? And how often do you charge it?
@@TotallyNormal- yes I use it every day and charge it every night,my husband has the exact same chair and we alternate on the chargers.
@@TotallyNormal- we have a parts chair,my husband has switched the battery cables and we tried switching the joystick with no change.
use a different charger ? I've had charger go bad. they don't keep up the amps or volts
ok gotya. just wanted to make sure it wasn't only getting charged every few days or something... ya thats a weird one for sure! esp since you guys swaped chargers.. that was gonna be my next thought.. hmmm theres defiantly SOMETHING going on to zap batteries that quickly.. usually though in those cases a bad motor or other problem would be noticeable (chair not driving straight etc) lemme think some more about this...
Permobil M3 to heavy rough on uneven ground
❤m3)
M3 will out climb a F3 But the ride is very rough
How the hell did you get rid of that click @ 3:13? Is that something I can do on my M3? I hate that click with the intensity of a thousand suns.
ah yes.. STEALTH MODE! you need a programmer to make it go away.. (R-NET USB dongle) and an understanding that its pretty dangerous to do... BUT ive got a guide on how to make it happen :^) haven't transferred that particular guide over to the new website yet.. but i can send a link if you have a dongle!
I remember seeing that. It looked like you were able to flip a switch or something and I was hoping there was some way to quickly toggle between normal and stealth modes. There are some times when I really don't want to hear that big *click* like when I'm recording a video on my phone or trying not to wake up my family in the middle of the night, etc. Oh well. A guy can wish. Thanks!
essentially ya use the programmer to tell the chair to ignore the position of the brake levers.. then ya can turn them on and off as you please and still move around!
Gotcha! Thanks!
do you sell chairs ?
nope. just have them to learn about the models and brands etc
Please you telling me color.
DO YOU SELL FIXED CHAIRS?