MEGA VLOG 670: a look at the 4front & TB3 seating (LONG VIDEO!)
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- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- Today we take an in-depth look at the quantum 4front1 power chair, and tru-balance 3 seating system! there are some "interesting" design choices across the board.. keep in mind - many of these problems MAY have been solved in the new version of the chair, and also the TB4 seating.
HOWEVER - there are some things people need to know about this chair, and the TB3 seating system!
0:00 intro
1:22 lawyers :^/
3:19 CASE sensors
6:11 castor swivel bearings
37:34 the shocks...
41:53 CASE calibration
46:05 TB3 seating!
1:02:48 summary!
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That’s a good way to put it. I love your passion for this the power wheelchair market.
Dan I love your passion and desire to help everyone to fix their chairs. We start out trusting those companies who provide us with them. In the UK we don't chairs through insurance lots of people like me have to buy out own they cost as much as a family car. You find yourself haggling with sales people. If you make a mistake choosing one it's expensive.Thank you again.
dan i will say it once again... THANK YOU!! great megavlog! everything you talked about was spot on.
So very informative! My first and most comfortable powerchair was an Invacare Storm Ranger. Loved it! For one thing the seat had springs in it, so comfortable I could sit in it all day both working at my desk and going miles thru Tualatin wetlands asphalt trails as well as in bike lanes in Portland. Of course I wore out tread on tires and eventually the springs in the seat were even suffering under my weight over the years…and years…and years. Nothing has ever been as comfortable as this one. Fast. Also could go up and down steep inclines that technically I should not have taken it on. Then TDX 4, Invacare. I had the first one w/ a van seat, and it was done at my request. My husband had to put it together because the DME could not figure it out. Like you, my husband had fun with these things. He wasn’t ever in need of one for himself but loved to see me enjoy freedom. Also it was a bit of a replacement for his fun working on sports cars. Now I’m in a Quantum Edge 2. Didn’t get a choice and had NO idea it didn’t have a back that laid down as far as possible towards the seat on the chair itself to fit in the rear of my van. (I sit in the front passenger seat.) Meanwhile, I can’t use it on any bus. I DO like the 10” seat lift a lot and could use a higher one. I’ve had this one for coming up on 5 yrs. Like the Stretto but have never tried one. Thinking Permobil w/ forward tilt to seat making it easier to get out of, easier to use in the kitchen. I’d definitely end up w/ higher seat lift as well. Never been in one, so I hope next time DME lets me have a demo or two and some choices. Also still in search of the same seat cushion my demo Quantum had. Salesman was just slam/bam/thank you ma’m. He was here maybe 15 or 20 minutes, said couldn’t leave the demo w/ me to trial thru weekend because he didn’t have battery charger. Long story, but I learned so much about safety using buses as far as bolts, construction and what to think about. I’d regain freedom if I could use bus service.
Great video Dan!
Excellent Video
Oh, an interesting tidbit is when I took off the caster fork, the magnet screw was not fully threaded down which added to traction control errors...Maybe normal operation of the wheelchair or a worker failing to assemble it correctly did it??? It doesn't make sense that the screw would be loose like that...After all, that magnet has to be a certain distance from the sensor, as you have pointed out in your video...
Those thrust bearing with small needles are made to wear out ! yes ! replace with brass Thrust washers pus being a machinist & transmission specialist you could add a seal below the tapered bearing
Dan could you 3d print a new central "hat" bushing as you called it made out of nylon and make the top part a little thicker to help the spring washers with the compression and just add a little grease on it to keep it from wearing out faster
its an IGUS bushing - which are pretty easy to get.. im not very good tho at designing parts for SLA printing :^)
The little plastic bumper if it falls off the rain will get in those 2 holes n everything rusts n destroys the bushing and the tapered bearing within a month or so. Originally there were no flat bearing and wich made the bushing breakdown very quickly,
I Use Lukas Red & Green Tack
Grease. I've Used It For Atleast
10 11 years.
Hey Dan I love your videos always educational 😊 going off topic but love to see a video on using a dongle programmer I’m getting ready to set a F5VS back to factory settings, any advice would be greatly appreciated. Ty
Thank you, Dan, now I know how to align my seat back plate. It is out 1/2 inch from one side to the other.
OMG, my right and left caster forks are missing the thrust bearings...I saw it flopping around in the hole...My solution was to buy a ball bearing that fits perfectly inside of the upper caster arm with the right sized washers and a better nylon nut I bought off of the McMaster Carr website...
I feel so stupid now, I should have realized it needed a thrust bearing in there instead of a ball bearing...If only it came installed with the correct parts in the first place...They replaced the right and left caster forks years ago but never replaced the makeshift washers and bearings I put in there...
I am going to take off one of the caster forks to see if they installed the correct parts this time...I had them replace the casters recently because the tread was worn down and needed to be replaced...So I am curious now...
Thanks for uploading this detailed video of the caster assembly...Now I know what is supposed to be in there...
I love you, DAN But you can get wound up. That’s a good thing. Thanks in the stream I’m here for the long-haul. We are stuck in one of these things I like to know as much as I can about it. Thanks.
I have a 4front1 that I bought after you showed some excitement on this new design and I got it mainly to nap in while reducing the lymphedema swelling in my lower legs. It was equipped with the feet/leg lift accessory that allowed me to lift my legs well above my heart but it was to uncomfortable so I have just been letting it sit . I have since found other ways to handle my problems but have just let the chair sit for later when I may later need it for what I see as future mobility issues. This, plus some of your other videos makes me have some second thought about keeping it around. What is the best way to go about selling it?
I've Found Small Seald Barings
At Local Auto Parts Stores.
With the lights on the quantums, if you unplug the dead lighting module from the lights but leave it plugged in to the power module, it might work its way out of that "charging" lockout.
You said it just as I was thinking it. Regarding the Apple parts and right to repair we need a champion for the ability for an engineer mechanic to be able to repair our chairs because it's just as bad in the UK.
That means no comments for 1 hour, 15 minutes? Gotcha. :D
Really have enjoyed your vlogs, quick question i am getting a new permobil f3. Unfortunately my order will be delayed because at the wheelchair clinic i opted for a standard seat. My letter of medical necessity was completed by the pts 2 days after the clinic. Unfortunately numotion the dme didn't waive the home study 3 weeks after the clinic i attended a family picnic & spent 12 hrs up in my chair m i realized that a no pressure, comfort/ contour seat would be a better option simple swap, right? Ah, no it requires a new sea4 quote & 2 new letters of medical necessity which instead of 2 days will take an additional 3-4 months. Unbelievable. My c300 8 yr old joystick motherboard is failing m the tech is worried since a replacement board is very pricey & may delay delivery of my new chair even though i am at greatee risk of being w/o a chair if the joystick fails. Have you seen wheelchair ghost pimp my permobil vlog? He said that the led fender lights should be standing lights & remain on the chair. Numotion isn't supposed to remove the fender headlights. In case they do, do you know where i can fe4 them?
Sincerely,
Lester
Swiftwater , PA
I cannot remember hearing if you liked the suspension in the chair. I know you said it would wear out because the shock absorbers were to short - but I wander if that translated to a bad ride.
the suspension/ride quality is GREAT! thats one of the reasons i want to like the chair so much :^)
@@TotallyNormal- Could you give a list of about 5-10 e-chairs in order of ride quality? Where ride quality is your only criteria.
Hi, Dan I've been having the same castor sensor issues and having to pay for recalibration almost every month which is costing a small fortune as well as a lot of stress! Any tips on re-calibrating the Wheelchair at home?
the handheld programmer is the only way to get things re-calibrated.. what are they charging you to plug in, and press 6 buttons??
seems like it shouldn't cost anything!
im going to be doing some more testing to see what conditions trigger the traction errors.. and try to figure out why they keep drifting out of calibration
They previously charged about £125 per call out ! I did contest this and managed to get the last callout for free but still having the same issues come back… i.e. traction control error.
Any ideas of how to get a hold of the programmer? As a side note appreciate all the content.
yeaaa its clearly a failed system that quantum has abandon using - id argue its a 'warranty' issue everytime things need to be re-calibrated.. but dealers/dme's usually only do so much for people.
the problem with most of the programmers is, they 'expire' so if ya manage to find a compatible one, it will lock itself and stop working at some point. i got one from ebay a couple years ago, and worked great for a while! but one day i plugged it in, and popped up with a 'supervision error' then wanted me to login to a 'cloud account' or whatever..
the tool i have right now resulted from a series of fortunate events, and had to get a lawyer involved - BUT ill never be able to replace it if something happens :^/
I may have missed this ... But do the current stretto's also have that same system of calibration on the back casters.
Since the stretto is mid-wheel drive, it doesn’t need any stability sensors :^)
@@TotallyNormal- SWEET! Also I didn't buy mine with the "Accu-Trac Advanced Tracking Technology" because I just thought I don't need another thing my chair how to drive. I just realized my base is using the 75A Q-Logic NE+. So that means it is a 75 Amp system vs the other two 120 Amp 120A Q-Logic 3 EX or 120A Q-Logic. My dealer I wanted the NE+ controller because I felt the bigger controler looked bulky and I thought more likely to get damaged on airlines. I didn't know at the time that I would be switching from a 75A to a 120A system. Not sure how that would impact overall. I am around 70 Lbs so I don't think I need 120A but I also wonder if by not having 120A if my top speed was cut.
I assumed it was a ball bearing because every wheelchair that I have ever owned has ball bearings...
I don't think that quantum is the best or the safest thing out there. When I first got my Edge z it had the usual quantum errors but once I swapped Q logic 2 over the thing has been quite reliable, yes I swapped motors as well but that was just preferences the original motors worked fine as far as transportation my chair doesn't meet the requirements but I still use it in vehicles and the seating holds up just fine and I use the chair quite a lot.
Is the 4front2 improved enough from previous?
i dont know if i trust my own advice.. lol BUT i regularly chat with 2 different people that have a 4front 2.. one of them is an HD version.. they've had issues with loose bolts and a few other random things.. but overall seems to be an improvement from the version 1! quantum got rid of the CASE sensors, and are using 'more proper' 4 pole motors now.. soooo... maybe?
I got a quantum 600 17 yours cold
was that sneeze your allergy to bullshit? Also i was thinking a flat washer between the conical washers might add enough tension.
i was thinking the same thing! - trying ways to increase the tension.. i dropped in an additional spring washer (then 2..) didnt have any effect.. but then realized that it just puts a bit more load on the thrust washer.. those things will take any load ya throw at them and not care! BUT after putting everything back together, even with the 'loose' tension, there didn't seem to be any castor flutter at all! the trail angle on these castors is pretty steep.. so maybe this chair doesn't require the same preload as other brands?
i think the name 4front refers to "completely new and totally odd" hah
@@TotallyNormal- I just realized, should the thrust bearing be between the spring washers? to clamp the thrust from either side.
hmmm.. maybe.. didnt consider till just now, that in 1300 miles that someone could have been in there, and might not have stacked things together the same way!
regardless there doesn't seem to be any castor flutter right now.. soo.. meh? lol
Mobility scooter sales company's usually sate they have fully qualified lexical engineers 😮 most so called qualified engineers have no clue what there looking at, a good example is reasently I've had an issue with my mobility scooter 1 engineer stated it was the tiller dash that was malfunctioning another said it was the motor top marks thing is a friend with the same scooter ruffle the same age as mine also had the same problem motor malfunctioned basically the motor in high power will only do 2 to 3 mph instead of its usually UK 8 mph, both of use last year where getting the same error message witch was 1. Over current 2, brake malfunction I was told it could be heat related because last year the temperatures where reaching 30c in the UK & yes if you look it up temperature can afect the errors we where getting but both ruffle the same age both have faulty electric motors something tells me it's a manufacturer's fault but the replace the motor we have to buy the electronic brake as the say its one unit but you can separate the motor from the brake so that's 2 units not one price from the seller is £700, like you say its a joke 😅
Why are these things so over-engineered? I understand patents and getting around that kind of thing, but we are just creating issues rather than keeping things simple.
Agreed! Exceptional design doesn’t create complexity for the sake of being ‘different’
I had a child’s Bec chair back in the early 80s that was front wheel drive and had no fancy anything. It did have proportional steering. You had a dog bone shaped that the stick went in. You had forward, turn right forward turn left forward. Then back and turn lest or right back. It was made out of wood and worked like a charm
My take away from this is two fold. 1. You are correct in stating you are not an engineer and your commentary validates as such. 2. You sorely dislike Quantum because they do not make a product that is serviceable by anyone with a set of wrenches.
lol