A Look at my TERRIBLE CHAIR! (long video)
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Let's take a look at some tear-down footage of my old quantum 4front power chair! this video only covers a FEW of the problems i encountered with it... i REALLY wanted to like this chair - but the problems outweighed any benefits :^/
total i had 8 sets of motors, 2 sets of shocks, all the electronics replaced, the ENTIRE CHAIR replaced - and other issues like the battery door falling off constantly, never ending errors that stop the chair from moving on a daily basis.. AND THE BRAKES COULDN'T HOLD THE CHAIR STOPPED ON A SLIGHT INCLINE!.. the bolts connecting the seating to the base were all loose, or stripped out... it goes on and on.. i only put 75 miles on the chair, in the 11 months i owned it.
this video is a story of my personal experiences. im NOT saying that these chairs are all unsafe, or that you should do ANYTHING you see in this video - but i wanted to share my experience with my Pride/Quantum 4Front. Enjoy the video!
0:00 intro
2:51 an explanation..
5:05 the left side
19:15 sidebar about brakes
25:25 back to video
31:45 the right side
48:20 final thoughts
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Some ideas for fitting problems you can "tune" into tolerance issue items I saw in here. #1 is mylar washers. Lowes sells them. You can Amazon them, too. Or Tacoma Screw. You can make similar, non-compressible, super slippery washers with 2L pop(soda?) bottles. But they are thicker. Also, on the shocks, you must allow for sideways pivoting, so seals don't get levered. Using o-rings to the sides of the mounts gives noise dampening, while allowing motion in all axis. #2 on plastic or urethane bushings, silicone dielectric grease is amazingly effective. For non-destructive water-sealing, use chapstick on the surface grooves. Yep. Chapstick. It can be removed, without evidence, and will seal up grooves and lips between machined groves/lips. #3: Lucas synthetic waterproof grease injected behind rubber bearing seals with a 18ga blunt tip syringe. Used to use Phil Wood, but the Lucas stuff is better now. Especially useful now that lots of parts that have bearings are non-replicable(metal cracks or deforms or no press points when pressed out). and designed to be thrown away. #4 Locktite _GREEN_ when replacing bearings. Yep. Those interference points that are just too wobbly will be hooked right up after LockTite green bushing retaining compound. #5 Locktite red on those critical points on the brake assemble. Skeeeeeeetchy. #6 a small lathe and some stock of oillite, urethane, Derlin and UHDPE. Make your own bushings. You don't need CNC. Just calipers to know what size to go to.
Keep the rubber side down!
I hope a real Quantum/Pride engineer sees this and goes and investigates the QC and parts sourcing specification acceptance process. It's death of a good design by 1000 papercuts.
I truly enjoyed your take on this seemingly troublesome put together expensive chair, my God is there not any QC at this assembly plant ? I could go on and on what it takes to produce a safe and rewarding product to the customer but maybe all for not. I just hope you get to the bottom of this debacle and we will be watching for any new undertakings. Halifax Nova Scotia Canada
Obtained new quantum edge 3 with i-level /tilt / recline -- already up to 122 miles in rainy south Florida- so far it’s been excellent- however it is my first power chair so not a lot of experience
When manufacturing a wheelchair, more care needs to be taken than building a car. If your car breaks down you can walk away and get a cab. When your wheelchair breaks down you are stuck in that spot. That happened to me, luckily I had my urinal bottle with me and I was wearing shorts on a hot day. Took me 2 hours to get help but imagine you were in a forest without a cellphone.
It's a good thing I ordered a Permobil F3 instead of a quantum when I was looking for a TDXSP replacement five years ago. But after seeing all of the madness you've gone through with this chair and how poorly built it was and how you were treated when it comes to service it's safe to say I am never ordering a quantum for as long as I live.
Here is an interesting idea. Maybe add a section on your site, for model reviews as this may help us all.
I have a Quickie Q700M. It is my most expensive power chair, and my third power chair in the lineup since 2001.
My first power chair was a Quickie S-525. Second power chair. Which I have still, and has been retired as my backup power chair. Is my Quickie QM-710.
It seems like with today’s power chairs. They were made cheaply. Even when they have most, or all of the power seat functions.
My Q700M power chair has not been functioning since October. I had problems with the drive wheel on the right side locking up.
It was thought that it was the motors, and the wheels. It took forever for those parts to get put on. They had been on back order.
But, it was discovered last month. That it was also the shocks, and suspension. Currently waiting on those parts to come in.
My QM-710 power chair still has the original motors. The only thing that has been replaced on it many times. Was the shocks, suspension, tires, casters, and batteries. Same with my old S-525.
My Q700M has the power tilt seat function. No seat elevator/recline.
Great video, Dan. Thanks.
Very educational awsome format
Is that same system giving off the flashing red light on the rear of the permobil m3 corpus
I have a Q6 Edge 2.0 and have had it for about 5 years. I live near Cinci, OH. My chair was provided by a DME. I have had zero issues with the truck part. The electronics worked fine. My issues were with thee seating. Simple little thinngs that made what should be a solid chair almost flimsy. I have never replaced or serviced the motors and so far they are still running at full speed. (No odometer on this). I have had this thing everywhere from the grass and dirt to sidewalks and tarmac. I have run rather steep hills with no issue. Plenty of power to say the least. I do find it tragic that your experience with Quantum was such a fail. Mine was quite the opposite and in fact in 2 weeks I have a new version of this chair being delivered. I look forward to its being as well built and solid as this one. Againn minus a few points for the seating fails (i.e. tiny beckward threaded screws to support major components.) Feel free to contact me if you have any questions.
PS: good vids sub'ed .
I had the same slop in all my Quantum motor units. The set screw in the nut on the output shaft that mates with the brake disc would always loosen. I always fixed it with Loctite Red. I had to do that every time the motors were replaced, which was often.
Hey man, have you got in the traverse with the passenger seat in there yet? I saw that you have an F5. I’m about to get one myself and trying to make sure it’s gonna be OK for turning around inside the traverse. Or have to make the change to a mid wheel. Do you drive straight forward out of the vehicle. Or do you have to back out The vehicle completely?
I had a q6 edge 2.0 from 2015 until 2020 and I had a number of issues with it. One of my Motors went bad where the teeth on the gears and the gearbox snapped because they were made of that pot metal you're talking about. Then my controller went bad because of water. The controllers are somewhat waterproof but any major rainstorm can cause issues.
The number one thing though that drove me nuts was how it drove. The problem was when you would switch directions or try to make a sharp turn it would basically wind up then take off. It was very Snappy and not direct power to the wheels, almost as if it was on a delay or something.
I've recently been looking into getting another chair and a DME I am working with talked me into test driving the new q6 Edge 2.0. The new q6 Edge 2.0 is much more responsive when driving so I think they got the suspension or whatever the issues were ironed out but still not sure if I'm sold on going back to Quantum especially after seeing the durability issues that you've had. I'm definitely going to test some others before I commit to anything.
These things are normally built together using torque settings and as such fasteners should be equal and not over stressed. I understand your frustration. I would say the pivot pins for the suspension is being retained by a cap so it can be removed from the outside. It is a common enough solution as those pins should never really see any side loading.
agreed - its a valid method for assembly, and ease of removal. its what's bound to happen when ya adopt a design and try to reconfigure it for your own use.. id like like to see at least a $0.03 cent rubber plug put in there or something to help with rattling.. if we're just building a garden cart.. then fine.. lol but in my mind it just goes to the totality of everything wrong overall :^)
im preaching to the choir here i realize.. its just frustrating for the price, and how they brag about their assembly lines, and 'quality', then have 3 different people within the supply chain tell me "oh stripped bolts are fine" etc etc
kinda funny when i was editing the footage - that specific pin ya mentioned - i thought "hmm well this design choice is probably ok" lol
@@TotallyNormal- I get your point entirely. I think it's bad when I fork out my hard earned on something for my manual chair that really should of lasted longer. Those power chairs are the price of a good car. Shoddy workmanship should be the last thing on your mind. I think the industry could learn a lot from its customers if they were to just understand many of us were or even still are mechanics, engineers, fabricators and designers. They think they know what we want or need but best case scenario is we find a chair we can adapt to not a chair easily adapted to us. Then they charge the earth for stuff that you can find cheaper for bicycles and small motorcycles.
I've had my 4Front since January of 2019, only trouble I've encountered is a caster sensor and the brakes don't hold so well when in my van. I love the way it rides and pulls, just wish this model had AccuTrac like the newer ones. I'm still on the original set of motors, don't go outdoors much during Winter but I rack up the miles during Summer.
Puck pride,.....I went through the same shit with my q6000. After 4 years of problems I found techs who helped me get it put together and set up properly.
They didn’t tighten the bolts properly on my Quantum 1450. I had to do it myself. My wheels would almost fall off after 10 minutes on a sidewalk. I had to add a string to the bolt that holds my Q logic controller in place to prevent the bolt from falling out every day.
I’m really impressed dude, that you actually repair or at least attempt to repair your own chairs! Sir, were you a mechanic all your life, or has this just come from your situation in life? I’m a t-10/12 complete paraplegic, since 2010, from a 35’ fall off a roof I was working on. I admire your fortitude and resilience, to not let these things hold you back! You’re proof, there is more to what makes up the man, than what people all, “Normal.” I’m subscribing! Take care man!
welcome! hah
yea ive had a lot of jobs/schooling over the years - i love takin stuff apart and figuring out how to make it better!
ALSO - it appears that quantum has fixed most of the issues outlined in this video on the new version of the chair :^)
I did watch till the very end Dan - and even though I was fuming, I laughed out loud for 15 seconds at your tagline, “Thanks for watching till the end - feel free to watch it over and over again!” - in spite of the BS you find you are constantly contending with you are a very funny man…
And informative and helpful - because being in the market for my first electric wheelchair, having finally graduated from a scooter, I won’t be buying a Quantum…
Many thanks 🙏🏻
Dan, To be honest i was shocked you went with this brand to begin with.
yeaaa.. i was hoping with their newer chairs things had improved.. wanted to give it a chance :^)
@@TotallyNormal- gotcha
@@TotallyNormal- yeah they don't deserve a second chance I'll tell you that
Just noticed, there is a 4Front 2. 4 pole motors. some updates. Wonder if they already took the problems to heart and worked on fixing it. It looks like a great basic design.
ill have to check that out!(only because im curious lol) i was wondering if they'd ever offer different motor options on this chair
After seeing that suspension up close, I'd sure take one used. But I'd turn the unit backwards and run it as a RWD. Probably put some $$$ into figuring out/making a sway bar. Fit RockShox and an onboard air compressor. HDPE sheet under it for a slippery skid plate.
Turning it around would be acceptable I guess, but remember that it's not like R-Net or even VR2, where the software is out there to get into the guts and tune its drive characteristics. Quantum/Pridehas their own customized stuff, and keeps that stuff under an extremely tight lid, so servicing the chairs outside of a DME (and only dealer level stuff, at that) is not easy.
Hello, I need some information from you! I have to change the oil in the engine reducer from my electric trolley! Can you please tell me what type of oil is compatible and what series of oil to buy?
it depends on the chair and type of motors. unfortunately there isnt a standard type of lubrication that's used. some chairs use grease, and others use oil. ya have to do some detective work and see if you can identify what was used in there previously.. (smell, feel, color etc) if all else fails, look at what types of materials are used in there (metal, steel, aluminum, delrin etc...) and find a compatible grease or oil. sorry theres no quick answer for this one - there's a LOT of different chairs and motor types out there!
I have a Quatum edge 2.0. I got it used and I've had it for about a year. So far so good. In live at the veterans home in Yountville, ca. They seem to be popular with the V A. hope i don't have any problems down the road.
glad its working well for ya! :^)
I've had NOTHING but problems with my Quantum Q6 iLift since it was delivered to me in late 2018. I couldn't even look at grass without getting stuck. Electronics problems were horrible. It has been down hard 6 times in two years, including a month after it was delivered. One of the motors even had a hard fail. Batteries keep giving out. I'm on the third set of batteries already. The tech just told me that I need to replace the batteries every year. When raised, it, "sinks," slowly on its own but no one can figure out why. New, "firmware," has been installed twice. I finally said screw it and softened the front suspension, which helped with getting stuck. I have all the same clicking and clunking you were getting with your 4-front. I'm told it is no longer under warranty.
I just snapped a caster arm on my 4front 2 days ago,luckily had spares.I always keep spares for that very reason.
My 67 mile Edge 3 parking brake sounds like that when parked but rolls forward/backwards a bit and clicks/rattles.
Hello Dan, do you know for a fact that both Motors were changed each time or are they just swapping Motors, one motor one that they think there's a problem with it leaving the other one on there. I bet you they were not changed in pairs each time.
i thought that at first as well! after the second time they were replaced, i started marking them in an inconspicuous spot so i'd know for sure! as for the supply chain - who knows where the replacements actually came from.. one of the times the chair was handled by a quantum rep directly, and the DME wasn't involved at all. the ENTIRE chair being replaced at one point is what made me realize its probably not an isolated incident. i mean its possible to ship 500 products and have 10 of them be a mess.. so who really knows...
Where I'm at, most of the "old motors" are scrapped by the dealer who installed the replacements... defective motors are not shipped back to Quantum.
a little tip if an alan bolt is stripped out a torx head will grip it
i had an edge 2 for 7 years never had a motor problem or anything. i would drive it all over my town threw grass and gravel. im shocked to see this since my dealer has been the same guy for 25 years recommended quantum since Invacare was IN trouble which was my first powerchair tdx something. what is the best chair out right now?
glad to hear the chair is working out well! :^)
right now my 2 personal picks are permobil, or AmySystems
(BTW i had one of the old invacare chairs back when the FDA stepped in and things got weird lol)
Thank you for posting this Dan, it's pretty important that stuff like this gets out and is well known. While it's focusing on quantum, it's really talking about quality of wheelchair design, on many modern wheelchairs especially rehab ones there's a lot of technology. It needs to be reliable and it needs to be proven. In places like New Zealand they are pushing out replacement schedules up to 10 years in some instances. This stuff from any manufacturer needs to work I have had my current chair for seven years and it's done 4572 km, it's had two motor replacements in 2019, and actuator went out some years before on the seat, but pretty much this chair brand has been reliable (TA IQ mid wheel drive) unfortunately this model was not available in the states. I would be extremely dubious about getting a quantum product in the future.
got to love those plastic bushings.
Does this chair have the electric anti speed wobble on the casters? Actually I was told it is programmed into my chair and could not be shut off. I wish I had seen your video a couple of years ago. My 4front was barely used I went out and bought a used Jazzy which works 10x better.
yes it does.. and trust me you don't want to disable them! i did on mine (not the same chair in this video but a different one) and it was UNCONTROLLABLE!
they 'fixed' the issues supposedly on the 4front2.. they ditched the castor angle sensors and went with more traditional stabilization controls
Great video
For the amount that is paid for these chairs this really bad.
The old Max price point cheapest parts possible rears it ugly head.
I have never seen cheaper bolts on anything like what is on my jazzy hd
Arm rest adjustment bolts aprox 5/16” bolt size just snap the heads off.
The motors seem better then some.
I am due for a new chair this one is 5 years old.
I do not want another Jazzy product.
Thanks Dan for showing us the good the bad and the ugly part of these chairs.
HOW much did that chair cost ?
As a person of extreme size, are there any power chairs you might suggest with a load cap of 600#? Thanks
bounder comes to mind! (21st century scientific) they build lots of custom chairs in all sizes!
@@TotallyNormal- thx. I saw your videos about quantum problems and was wondering if jazzy 1450 might have same issues as it is supposed to be super heavy duty? And whether you reviewed this model?
i havent looked at any of the jazzy chairs really...
just came across this though! ruclips.net/video/O143KcrBKTE/видео.html
@@TotallyNormal- thx. I had seen this video. Hoping someone out there has some experience with the jazzy 1450 or discontinued 1650 that can offer real world reviews.
Damn Dan you’re a better person than I would be.
Glad you went to an F3 hopefully will have good luck it.
Hi, I understand you saying about them
My Quantum 6000Z got me through 6 years and 5800 miles of abuse. 365 days a year and not one time was I left stranded with a catastrophic failure (knock on wood.) The chair did however go through 2 new sets of motors, 3 joystick controllers, a new frame, seat elevator sensor, and suspension springs. Numotion is awful and actually broke the chair twice from shody repairs. One time a sheared off bolt that could have been repaired on the frame tilt track. They instead replaced the frame. In the process the tech zip ties the seat elevate wire incorrectly. Raised my chair and the wire came out. Going down with only half of the actuator snapped the brand new frame. he tech told me dont tell anyone because it would slow the "warranty" claim. I drove around for 3 weeks with toe straps holding the back from flipping forward. My house got flooded and insurance gave me MSRP value for the chair LMAO, so im thankful because it bought me a new Braun Toyota Sienna. All that said im SOOO pleased with the 1000 miles ive put on my new Permobil F5 VS. My c300 used to terrify me tipping forward so I went with the q6000 in 2014. The F5 added weight is so much more stable and Quantum lost me for good! Thanks for your insight!
Shame... The chair looks really nice! I don't know if it's the colour combination, bigger rear castors or something, but looks grea!
They do look pretty decent! I’ll give ‘em that for sure!
My brother Jeffrey I also use a power wheelchair mines and Amy system currently but my brother uses a newer model quantum power wheelchair and he loves it
awesome!
....not saying ALL of them are bad.. i just had a ridiculous experience with this one :^)
There are no decent designed power wheelchairs out there by any wheelchair companies. They are only getting worse.
I had a Quantum 600 (2009ish to 2013 roughly) and that thing was a complete mess with the motors! After that chair, I will never go with another quantum/pride mobility chair in my life!!
I am on my second edge and 6 sets of motors .
And now they don't want to help anymore
Hate quantum wheelchairs. I had a Q6 edge 2.0 and had nothing but issues. It was broken down and needing repair more than I could use it and it was eventuality condemned after 18 months. Interesting comments about what’s seems to be a lack of weather proofing. Mine always broke down and threw errors after being out in wet weather (I’m in the uk so that’s fairly often). I will never have a Quantum chair again. I Now have a Quickie Q500F and it’s much better!
I have an agreement with my insurance that the DME only provides the necessary parts, and I do all the maintenance.
Buying assemblies requires quality control to verify those assemblies before ship to stock....
it can broken now
my occupational therapist in australia tried to recommend the 4front i just laughed at her i wouldn't touch that thing with a 50 foot pole
Dan I’m building a Q6000Z HD with the hammer motors , I put the 1170 4” tires on it have to get seating that works I purchased a Qlogic 2 programmer . They must assemble with air ratchets I turned the heads off some of the hardware. Not for someone that doesn’t have good arm strength. We shall see I ordered
A lipo 6s battery for it have a balance charger for the battery
Supposed to be 86amps .
Question can you upgrade the firmware on the programmer to program the Qlogic 3 ?????
It’s all locked down.. I’ve got a Q-logic 3 programmer and I STILL wasn’t able to use it on the chair…
@@TotallyNormal- I saw one of those I paid 300 for the Qlogic 2
Very easy to use. I saw one for Qlogic 3 for400 I have multiple parts for the Qlogic 2 I’ll stick with that if you had a problem with the 3 programmer Thanks
FYI.. curtis controls has a big presence in the industrial space as well and they use identical programmers.. sometimes its hard to tell which firmware they're loaded up with when buying form ebay. i've played around with trying to re-flash them but apparently ya need some kinda specialized almost non-existent software to do so... im sure there's workarounds.. but something to consider when buying them :^)
Most manufacturers dont give a tinker's damn about anything. They just sell and then walk away.
It's Like Todays Cars Their Not
Built Good Either. I Have A Quantom
Q 6 Edge. But I Never Had Any
Trouble Except Replacing The Batterys
& The Tire. You Cant Buy Anything
Without Anything Being wrong With It.
That's The Thing With Anything
Nowadays. I Remember When You
Could Go Out & Buy Anything
It Would Be Assembled The Rightway.
I Was Talking To Tampa Tech &
He Told Me Why Some Of Our
Flatscreen TV's Quit Working Is
The Components Arent Soldered Correctly
That Means The Factorys Dont Add
Enough Solder On The Components.
What is your favorite wheelchair?
I found it shocking that quantum uses a wooden seat under every thing I rolled backwards into a snowbank after it broke at the mounts it does not seem much but I was alone in subZero weather and had a hard time getting back into it when I got home I found out the seat was plywood
Do not suggest quantum in my opinion I have since added wide tires for the mud and use it as a backup or when I want to go trail riding
I will Never ever get a quantum in my life not after seeing this video great job then for warning people about their garbage
Good morning dan
I have the 600 hd sport and its been a good user chair its powerful and comfortable but thats where it stops im so happy I dont have to pay for this its 4 years old and has had 2 new motors an new joystick controller numerous casters and the SQUEAKS OMG EFFING GOD THE SQUEAKS , so glad I dont pay for it ,
for the squeaks on a lot of these things, ive used aerosol silicone lube on the shock mounts and other pivot points.. seems to shut things up for about 30 days at a time :^) ive got a Q6Edge 1 that sounds like a bucket of rusty hinges! anytime i have to pull it out of mothballs i spray a few key points, and its good to go!
@@TotallyNormal- I will try that thanks I have some silicone lube I bought for the rollers on the van door thanks
pretty sad...people's lives are involved. maybe they should have to pass a safety check like automobiles...
kidding...although how do people/customers trust their chairs...
scarey
I don't know where to start on wheelchair dealers crappy service. We just mothballed her new chair and bought a used chair to even have one that was safe to use.
IMO, Considering the enormous cost of any of these power chairs from any company especially for people without insurance coverage that are paying for them out of their own pocket is plainly not in any way acceptable. Some of these chairs can cost nearly as much or more than a very nice new automobile. These customers are expecting durability, dependability, reliability and to be a safe quality product. Adding insult to injury of their trusting customers who are not always accompanied by someone able to immediately help can very quickly become an unsafe or even possibly a deadly situation.
$35,000 for a chair! The price of a car? If there is not a lemon law on wheelchairs there should be, you're a good talker see if you can convince him to pass a law here in Oregon all nice chairs, that would hold the manufacturers of these with their feet in the Fire. Somebody needs to do something the way things are right now there needs to be a change only chair I would ever consider purchasing is a Perma build and Bounder I have both a secondary in a primary chair and both have been proven to be reliable and engineered well except for the squeaks and rattles as they age
A very high percentage of these 'power chairs' go from the
cafeteria to the TV room to the bedroom in a rest home.
They get no real world stresses, so they are built like plastic
toys. They are not built to last or really meant to be used.
Exactly! And in cases like that, sometimes these things will work “fine”
A lot of high end (at least in price) manual chairs are the same. Use them and the flaws soon show? Sit in them all day and it's fine. Just don't go outside and definitely don't go to the park.
Quantum not god Wheelchair Permobil F5 F3 best Wheelchair 👍🏾
If Ricky Gervais was clean shaven. 👍
Can you just need to say I don’t think I would buy one another one.
Dan I'm A DIY'er Myself & I Was Told
By My Dad If you Want Something
Done Right Do It You'r Self.
Just Like I Told You About The Tire
I Bought Hand Medical Wanted
$117.00 Monster Scooter Wanted $7200.0
So I Found One On Amazon For $26.00
That's Why I'm A DIY'er.
I will probably never own another pride product just based on my experience with my first chair a q6 edge hd, pride and hd are the two biggest lies they put on that chair.
quantum chair do suck, and lot of parts are not really made in US or even model for cost savings
$35,000🤔😯
The edge2 downgraded from 1 and 3 downgraded to shit.
Hmmmm...
Well Dan you have finally convinced me your fine salesmanship on behalf of pride/quantum has made me desire one of these beauties most certainly, because I strive for a unique experience that will never be boring, will always challenge me, keeping me on my toes. Unreliability is something that I've always craved in a wheelchair thank you for selling me on this desire
Thay are proud that thay dumped there crap on you and you payed for it big time.
Quantum decided soft metals are cheaper and they can sell shit chairs for the same price 🔥🚮
DME's suck
Dan is Invacare selling and doing the work on the quantum? They are the dealers in Canada First the chair needs maintenance every three months and its all very expensive in Canada They are a piece of sh----. I just purchase a new one 6 months ago $33,000.00 and having problems all ready and poor service from the dealer, The computer display went south the first week had to put the old one from the other chair on and up to today still no replacement.