It cool to see you touch on people who are Eastern Orthodox. I’m learning more about it. So far going in that direction. I for sure will look up Mr. Shaw and see what else he has to say..👍🏽🙏🏽❤️🩹
@@stamatissavvanis5862 It knows more than you about Chinese philosophy, too! Don't worry about "Chinese Philosophy" and pick up an unbias book on "Church History.
I had a similar experience with walking into an Eastern Orthodox church at the beginning of the year. Truly a Christianity that demands you change in order to provide faithful and loyal service to Christ.
@@drjanitor3747 Not orthodox myself. But what makes it heretical, rather than merely a sect? A clergy/laity system in its organization? The dependency on iconography? I tend to think of those things as traditional differences.
We should have more orthodox christians in conversations, they're based and more connected with the whole library of our faith, they can easily have for breakfast muslims and everyone else
@@fredpaik1349 2000 years of church fathers (most of which had no family or job, just church) vs barely 500 years of sporadic and often contradictory teaching.
Its a lie. EO has no eschatology because they just leave everything to mystery and dont actually use their brain. Everyone else realizes things are getting worse not better (besides catholics who are amillenial)
Im from Europe and it feels ripe for a change like the one you mention here. It already feels as though something has shifted in a quiet sort of way. I believe orthodoxy may play a significant role.
I believe that he's correct. There is a Saint that came here from Mt. Athos and his name is Elder Ephraim of Arizona. He reposed On December 7th 2019 but he came to America 30 years ago to build Greek Orthodox Monasteries so that there will be a light in the darkness that the world is about to dive into. He prophesied that if the one world Church gathers together on the 1700th anniversary of the ecumenical council, then God will pull all grace from all churches and allow nuclear war. America will be hit hard. The monasteries will be the new foundation of the Church. All of this was done decades ago and he saw this in many visions in the 1990s. The Church will correct itself and become one again in its original Apostolic Orthodox and liturgical form. Many of our Saints speak about these events, including WWIII. So far, the epidemic, world masking itself, financial crash, Greece in financial trouble have all come true. The last prophesy that came true is that WWIII will begin when Israel attacks Iran directly. That happened 3 weeks ago. Next is grounded planes, economic collapse, 6 moth famine, and then Turkey invades Greece... then Russia Destroys Turkey. WWIII will come into full swing at that time.
I did a poll on threads of “is Jordan Peterson a Christian?” The YES vote won. We as Christian’s need to clarify that he’s not a Christian because Jesus is not a metaphor.
He doesn't say Jesus is a metaphor or archetype only. A real person can be a physical representation of an ideal. To many, Michael Jordan is the benchmark of what a great basketball player is.
We as Christians are not set as judges over men. Christ himself said, “I have not come to judge the world, but to save it”. He also said, “Anyone who is not against me is for me.” He also said, “many who say Lord, Lord will not enter the kingdom of heaven”. He also consistently pointed people not to look at him as a man, but to look at God. He also said, God is Spirit and cannot be seen. Peterson is pointing to that invisible Spirit of God, no different than Christ did. Too many Christians desire to feel knowledgable and safe in their superficial understanding of Christ.. looking only at the door, but refusing to step in. Acknowledging that the bread is true, but not eating of it. “Even the demons acknowledge the Son of God.”
Say what you want but Jordan is the vessel God used to start my Christian journey. I had no respect for the Bible, JP showed these are not just mere 'stories', but the foundation of ALL human condition with a truth beyond truth. What and how he speaks on it, would make even an atheist pay attention. He believes in Christ, end of story. He doesn't put it out there to be debated and attacked on and it's his right to but there is a literal video of him speaking about Jesus driving him to tears, but because most people haven't seen it and what he said, they judge. I became in awe of Christs character before I came to know, but I'm so grateful I've actually found Him, it changed my life completely. My testimony is not even finished yet, God is walking me through it.
I’m so very glad for you. There’s a lot of negativity sometimes around the modes and methods that one comes to Christ, but such judgment isn’t fit for any of us to make. God works through whom He will, and I know JP has been a great bridge to hope and truth. May the Lord bless u on your own journey.
WoW this is amazing! Especially the « I had no respect for the Bible » to now you believe in Jesus 🙏🏼 thanks for sharing. I think that God can use people like JP because he will talk in a certain way that appeals to certain people. Those same people would never listen to a pastor or a Christian telling them « Jesus is the truth, just believe » and thus making them interested whatsoever in the Bible, but as you said it, he spoke about it a certain that started to light the fire in you. God bless 🙏🏼
Christianity is learning to walk by faith and not by sight. I don’t expect JP to be perfect. He is learning to walk by faith in his journey. He will get there. How many of us start at one place thinking we believe a certain way until we get the understanding to change to correct our walk.
@@Ehhhhhsureeee A relationship with Jesus is the most important thing . My brother married a Greek and she has communion in both churches. So are their 3 children. If you believe in Christ and try to live Christ like than you are on the right path .
@@Ehhhhhsureeee they’re both right. The doctrines and traditions given by Christ are the same. It’s man’s politics that got in the way. But we are close to reuniting. May the lord bring us together
@@Bronson3344 nothing bruh. Haha jk. I've been listening to Gavin Ortlund and his dialog with Orthadox Priest. Have learned a lot but I believe the fullness of truth is found in Christ and not an institution.
@@eugenenunn4900 I agree the fullness is found in Christ but also in the physical Church that he established on earth. and even promised the Apostles that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. Just like Christ had a physical body, he also had a physical church. You should look into it, and learn about the history of the Church. See which one holds closest to what the Early Church was teaching. God bless you on your journey ☦️
Thanks for pointing that out. Wanted to say something similar! Since the trinity god is one and three in the same time. So even the holy spirit is god. And im pretty sure JP is guided by the holy spirit. Accepting the methapor of Jesus verbally, is also the first step of accepting Jesus in your heart. Because you need the holy spirit guiding you, to even grasp the 'methapor of jesus' in that way
@@Wisstihrwas Pleased that you are pleased. Only highlights how the spirit of truth works through us via the holy spirit in accord with all truth, this becoming apparent makes apparent the operational nature of how we are to function as the "body of Christ". I would further Add that if you inquire of the holy spirit for yourself it may be revealed to you that the more nuanced view is that God the Father -Godtheson-and-God-the holy -spirit represent dimensions of Gods existence- like if you were to draw a circle and divide each part equal the dimensions within that help one understand the totality of the God conception. It Thus becomes surface to conclude of them of God - the truth of the conception is within the conception itself
Hmm, it must be me but I don't hear Peterson saying that is the end of the story. When I listen to him I hear a man on a true meaningful journey and sharing that journey with whoever wants to listen
This seems like nobodies trying to be somebodies by deceit. JP is bigger than most in the church today because the dribble churches have produced for so long killed what life it had.
@@thecontagiouscajun4795dude there are vastly more Christians on earth today, not to even mention those who have lived in the past two thousand + years than people who have even heard JPB’s name. It has nothing to do with us trying to be somebody- it’s about Christ. But I guess someone idolizing, following and defending a human being that doesn’t know they exist wouldn’t understand.
Peterson has a problem though, and it is this, he has rendered himself to less than a crawl, yet more than being idol, this can very easily become a situation that goes from productivity wrestling with God to playing with Him, and that is something he should be warned about. If you can tell your father that you are his son or daughter with joy, but you refuse to say anything to those whom you ought to view as your brothers and sisters as their father is yours, to withhold declaring that due to you putting faith in our father, you are a sibling of those who are of the seed of Avraham. Peterson was in a state of looking at this up and down throughly, we will see if this improves with John Lennox being on the panel discussing the old Testament to new around that roundtable of his. He has looked at the philosophical and mental aspects, but leaves God Himself waiting by withholding himself from the history. To reference Yeshua on how you will know the faithful is all well and good until you realize that a child of God will be able to declare who they father is and his tongue remains lodged and that says a lot about the frustrating weight upon his heart, but yet he may trust in only the archetype, but he is going to need far more than that to get him dislodged.
This reminds me of St. John Paul II when he said, "the Church must breathe with her two lungs" - a powerful metaphor highlighting the importance of unity between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic traditions. It's a call for embracing diversity within the Church, echoing the message of inclusivity and communion that resonates deeply with Catholics worldwide. Such unity also underscores the importance of preserving the true apostolic foundation of the Church.
there is no importance in unity between the heterodox and the orthodox. It is the opposite of important. Unifying would be the direct degradation of the apostolic, patristic Church
I’ve been EO since 2014 after decades in hedonism, feminism, psychotherapy culture, academia, sex drugs R n R, psychedelics, fornication and idolatry in a Hindu meditation cult before begging God to SAVE ME. Jesus Christ showed up! Then I spent 10 years in a bunch of Protestant groups before going back to the Latin papal Protestantism (the RCC). When Francis got elected I started READING CHURCH HISTORY and found the Desert Fathers! Baptized in 2014 at age 56! Now at 66 the ascetic struggle as a “householder” towards the One goal in life, Theosis, only gets HARDER! But I have the consolation of KNOWING Christ a bit, not just knowing about Him! Glory to God for ALL things!!! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
You say why doesn't Christianity have more robust conversations like this, but it's really just protestantism because it doesn't have a robust theology or life in communion.
As a Catholic that's not happy with its Pope at the moment I will be jumping into the Orthodox boat for a while and will be closely listening to this man thank you! 😀🤙
Don’t leave the church over the pope, we’ve had way worse in our history. The church needs good Catholics now more than ever. If you don’t like your parish try going to a Latin Mass and see if that fits more with you
Check out the Crucible. I left the Catholic Church a few months back and well I needed some help and called the local Orthodox Church. They knew I wasn’t Orthodox and they invited me to Pascha and so went to my first Divine Liturgy. Go and see them man, this is what Church is supposed to be. They don’t run from evil, they confront it.
“Something that is not taking its cues from a culture that does not care for it” 🤯💯 This man put it so succinctly in that phrasing. For me that was Traditional Catholism and attending the Traditional Latin Mass. Even a lot of modern Catholics hate me for liking the Latin Mass, let alone the world.. My father’s a Christian, I went to his Baptist church on and off for over 20 years, giving it a fair go and out of respect for him hoping it would speak to me. But when I asked him to come just once to our Church, he changed subject and would not entertain it. Imagine your whole life you pray for your son to find Jesus and God, then when he does you do not rejoice because it wasn’t in the room of the house you had hoped for.
@@wilsonsclips_ I think the answer is obvious he believes the Catholic church will damn your soul by its teaching. Misconception or not that is the most likely explanation.
What bothers me most is suggesting JP is saying there's nothing more to scripture. He doesn't say that at all. Problem is God raised up an atheist to fill them empty pews, and like Christian's often do they trash, diminish, everyone who doesn't 100% agree with them. JP has done more to help me than anyone in the church. And I am far from the only one.
My problem with Petersen is that he's too entrenched in Jungian philosophy and, as a Christian myself, it comes off as athetistic Christianity more than not so often. He gets caught up in the collegiate, secular view of Christian texts that he often times seems to forget the glory, majesty, and divinity of God and His Son.
I'm sorry but people are way too touchy with JP. I know you mean well, but no where in this video is Ruslan imply JP said there is nothing more to scripture. You are being emotionally protective of the guy, and I understand it is for good reason, there are many that are coming at him for blood. But this criticism is in no way bad faith and simply starting the fact that JP has not affirmed the resurrection of Christ and Christ as a real person that was both man and God, literally.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Oh yeah, and was that consciousness man and God? Did that consciousness literally die and then resurrect, from the dead? This is exactly the thing, calling Jesus the consciousness that ordered the universe is good, but does he believe one of the most important dictates of the religion? If not, that’s okay, JP is still a good guy and has done a lot, he’s just (not yet) a Christian.
I love Martin Shaw! His parallels with CS Lewis, especially his conversion story are insane to me. Orthodoxy has offered me much of what he talks about, "food in a different way."
This is what Peterson lacks. On top of that, he's CONSTANTLY surrounded by Jew's but often putting on "Christian" events... A Jew should not feel comfortable in their faith at a "Christian" event...
Agree 100%. Is he (JP) not dancing with the same people that just worked the US into passing a bill that essentially outlaws parts of the Bible. I see JP as part of a very powerful group that seeks to subvert the Christian Church in order to control it to their ends.
Yes they should actually but thats another long side discussion from this. The modern orthodoxy did not exist until around 200 ad. And is based on the talmud not the Torah which Jeremiah specifically warned them about.
Intellect tests intellect.. That we can all listen to each other with an open ear and sit with our differences is a gift. It’s no crime to surround yourself with a variety of views, which is how one comes to weed out the right from wrong. It seems Peterson continues to search for truth in such a way. I’m always praying all can hear the views of Christianity and be challenged to consider Christ.
My daily affirmation is this: God i receive your written and spoken promises for my household. Amd with an influx of $125,000.00 every two months God has kept to his words for me. Hallelujah!
JBP is very careful about how he talk about it. He point a way that the atheist can walk and rediscover Christianity. Without him I would never been interested, same is true for millions. He is the person bringing the most people back to it.
Excellent point. Dr. Peterson is often taken out of context, as this video shows. The person speaking, Mr. Shaw, has no reality outside of the orthodoxy bubble In which he resides. Always be wary of those who state of the "one true way",history has shown it is not the case. Christians are just that, followers of Christ. The schisms of different viewpoints get in the way of many, as is the case here. No disrespect, pointing out how ego gets in the way of belief sometimes. I challenge those would attack me, to first read -Maps of Meaning, by Dr. Peterson. Afterwhich, you will have a deeper appreciation for the Holy Bible and a better understanding of your own faith. Thank you.
I joined the Orthodox church about 6 mos ago. As i was telling my dad, who has been a Christian his whole life about it, he commented that it sounded like a cult. And again while i was describing the attire i need to wear while visiting a monetary. Dress below the knee, long sleeves and head covering. Outside, we're asked to dress modestly, but still in normal everyday wear. It's really disheartening how much even Christians will judge what they do not understand. It took me a while, but once you learn the reasons for why they do certain things, it only takes you further away from the secular world and closer to God. And isnt that what we, as Christians, are asked to do? (I ask as im watching YT. There is always room for progress 😅)
@@erictheguapo Orthodoxy is pre-denominational. Before denomination existed and founded by Christ Himself. Following Christ as you say would mean following the church he established.
@@TommyGunzzz The ortodoxy was not founded by Christ and they are just other denominations. They are much older denominations but denominations nonetheless
@@TommyGunzzz Which denomination of orthodoxy are you reffering too? The Ethiopian Orthodox founded by the Ethiopian Eunich? Catholicism which was founded by Constantine and the Council of Nicia? (The New Testament Church was not Catholic nor was Peter a pope). Or are you asking about Eastern Orothodox? Be specific to which denomination you are reffering to.
With respect, give his interview with Matt Fradd a watch. It's on Locals. Peterson LIVES in Christ, even if he's not so openly yelling "Lord, Lord!". JBP knows that JC and God the Father are not a metaphor. But people want him to mouth the words. He'll throw a challenge to all of you. Do you LIVE and ACT like God is real? Or do you just pay lip service?
Im surprised ppl really think Jordan Peterson is christian. It’s quite obvious he is NOT. He is a thinker and he likes to think about religion, social/culture and philosophy, that’s his ultimate love.. not God. It’s just so happen he is very intrigued and interested in Bible and God of the bible.. i respect that. But being smart about it doesn’t mean believing.
Every time I hear JBP doing his routine about archtypes and metaphors i can only think of Matthew 11 25: At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
It's amazing to see how people and especially half Christians are reacting to the truth spoken. May God bring you all to the Eastern Orthodox path, coz this is the only true, narrow, demanding and loving path towards Christ.
You have absolutely no basis to say that. And you are conflating the words of Christ with your own ideas, you should be careful in the future with your words.
Don’t neglect the description of our videos. You say we should go check out this video but provide no link, why? The description should be an appendices for the content we are engaging with not just all the merchandise you sell/promote. Thanks, loved this.
While i myself am not orthodox, I know of a number of former charismatics from the Christian Rock and Metal worlds who are becoming or have made the switch. One you may be interested in hearing his story is Tommy Green, formerly of the Christian Hardcore band Sleeping Giant, currently of HolyName. I had the pleasure of interviewing him on The KingdomCore Podcast and have the video on this channel!
When I was a teenager I quit trying to be liked by people who didn't deserve respect. Same thing the church should do. Carl Jung was a gnostic. His work is completely influenced by gnostic belief systems, so Peterson's is as well.
The guy says, " jesus is not an archetype." You misquote him saying ," jesus is not just an archetype." Be careful, it makes you seem deceptive, but maybe you are mearly careless.
As soon as you were going over beauty and craftsmanship. I thought of Paul speaking to the Athens in Acts 17:22-34. Thank you for sharing the talk and going over it. :)
He's also a professor, guys. He's a master at psychology. He lost his career. He's establishing a baseline so that he can reach the most people in a way Christian evangelicals in large cannot do. I'm not the Lord, so I don't know if his name is written in the book of life. But I do know that the Lord is using Jordan Peterson for HIS glory on a massive scale, especially to those who who have NEVER picked up a Bible... but they may now be highly fascinated in it. I praise the Lord for His life and voice.
I don’t know enough about orthodox Christianity but I do agree that in the US it does seem that we have a problem with beauty and excellence in all. I saw Notre Dame Cathedral and I mean wow Where is something similar built in the last 50 years?! It does make one wonder
He didn't say Jesus wasn't "just another" archetype. He said Jesus wasn't an archetype. Jesus wasn't a type of anything. He was//is the thing. All other "things" are a "type" of Him.
Liked this video. Glad to learn of Martin Shaw and looking forward to reviewing some of his information. You should have more Eastern Orthodox individuals and topics on your show.
Christian Teleology: your eyes hurt because you have never used them before. You are beginning to see things the way they really are. "Many are the troubles of the righteous." Jesus did not come to bring 'peace'. In Matthew Jesus explains: 'I come as the sword of division'. The closer you draw to the Lord - the farther away you will be from the ephemeral and the material things of this world and in-turn, those people who have been taken by it. You may feel lonely but you are never alone for you were with him from the beginning 😶🌫John 15:18-27. Stay blessed fren ✝😇🙏
@@BetterDeadThanRed99 Thank you. My eyes truly are open. Many things to do with Church and the Bible are foreign to me still but I feel like I have a basic understanding of the different churches. I think I’m leaning towards the Orthodox Church. I’ve got a lot of work to do.
Orthodoxy has a decentralized structure with self-governing churches. This autonomy leads to disagreements on administrative or liturgical matters. Which is what they have, confusion.
Keep thinking the way you’re thinking, you’re finally on the right track. As someone who grew up evangelical and then converted to Roman Catholicism in my 20s; I can’t even begin to explain how perplexed, confused and sad I am by someone like you who was given the most incredible gifts available to humans; the sacraments and the liturgy. I can’t begin to fathom what happened to see you land where you did but I hope you come back
1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together. 2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated. 3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed. 4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days. 5 And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them. 6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth. 7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled. 8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious; 9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure- 10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man. 11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear: 12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh; 13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth. 14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people; 15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant; 16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall. 17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments; 18 And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets- 19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh- 20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world; 21 That faith also might increase in the earth; 22 That mine everlasting covenant might be established; 23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers. 24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding. 25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known; 26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed; 27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent; 28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time. 29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon. 30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually- 31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance; 32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven; 33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts. 34 And again, verily I say unto you, O inhabitants of the earth: I the Lord am willing to make these things known unto all flesh; 35 For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion. 36 And also the Lord shall have power over his saints, and shall reign in their midst, and shall come down in judgment upon Idumea, or the world. 37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled. 38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same. 39 For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.
I can jive with this - he articulated way better than I can what I've been feeling for years: there is way too much "lyric" christianity, and not enough "epic" ...
Something Peterson might need to get more clear on too, is if he is for The City of God and can consider himself dedicated to it, or for the aspiring finite cities of the materialist world.
The Holy Spirit is saying some things through Martin Shaw for sure, imo. Some things that stuck me deeply (I'm paraphrasing, probably) are: The churches he had been to were "pulpit centered", not "altar centered" - boom. That he was taking Tango lessons recently and church was like that. This set off a chain reaction in me of realizing he was talking about learning steps or practices that 'made room' for Christ to inhabit his life like 'the music' inhabits that dance... He also has said he felt that older people needed to be ready to help in what is coming (I'm older, duh, lol). Let me be clear - I'm not lifting up the man - I'm sharing what he said because I believe it to be Spirit led. I pray all the best for him in his walk with Christ and am grateful for his words. Thanks for the vid! :)
A lot of Protestants see beauty and art as worthless and dumb. They love money though. If you can make "good money" writing cheesy Christian novels or drawing illustrations for greeting cards or designing houses that's okay. But the money is what really matters.
It is no wonder that Peterson and others recognize these literary elements in the greatest story ever told. God is the Master Artist, not only in the things that He has made. He is the Master Storyteller, and He wove the threads, telling of our redeeming Christ, into the lives of real people for millenia. It was _exactly_ the recognition of this narrative, this foretelling, that blew the minds of the apostles upon Christ's ascension, and this was the very way that they spread the Gospel. If Peterson only hears Christ calling him by name, and the invitation to come and sit at His feet and _know_ Him, the transformation would be life-changing. This should be our prayer for him.
Why diss Pageau & Peterson or maybe I mean pit them with a narrative against each other for views? They have been on panels together before and conversed.
I agree with the value of a specific “Mythologist” Orthodox professor and some interesting insights he brings, but it is also important to remember that Protestantism’s focus on been on correct doctrine from Scripture. Therefore the best of Protestantism are those that have the most Biblically exact and robust doctrines. We could learn something from other past Christian traditions. But nothing really good in this video hasn’t been said by a Dr MacArthur or R C Sproul many times. Even Dr. M L Jones. He didn’t get into the mythology stuff much so I guess I need to watch some of his other videos.
Really... we have to use words to express things. I would say few, but really, no one person ever expresses them selves perfectly. Except Jesus Christ. Even then, our understanding tears apart His every Word. Christ talked so simplisticly yet so profoundly even a child can understand.
I’m also wary of people referring to the “figure” of Christ. I think it’s ok if someone approaches Him that way but those of us who’ve crossed the bridge should be clear he is not a “figure” but the God Man who really lived died and rose.
New listener here. I noticed you said in your intro that you are making content to encourage people to live a life that blesses God? Correct me if I'm wrong, but who could possibly bless God? I thought God was the one who gave the blessings? I'm confused.
Criticsim accepted, but the church can be friendly, outreaching and still hold strong to the Scripture. To further his point, we should be pleasing God and not people.
Look at the societies that are predominantly eo. As many problems as the west has (which are recent) the east has always been garbage. This dude has no argument
Peterson has made clear that he does believe in God. Where he struggles is accepting Christ’s resurrection. He’s an exceptionally rational mind, so he still has reasoning to do in regards to it. I’m actually very glad he’s doing what he’s doing so publicly because we’re getting to look inside Peterson’s mind as he reasons out his faith. His is arguably one of the most complex minds in the world (made public) and I’ve seen him go from viewing God as a metaphor to believing God and Christ are not only real, but are who they say they are. Peterson should be challenged, but he should also be allowed to continue doing what he’s doing because this will not only be a huge victory for the Kingdom, but will give us a better understanding on how to reach a person with such a complex mindset.
To be fair. I am sure I have heard Peterson make the exact same point himself about myth becoming manifest in the world and the uniqueness of that event.
It's both. It is not just that Christ is the great archetype, or that he is real; It is that he is The Great Archetype *and* he is Real, *and* he is God. He is The *I Am.* I believe that Jordan is currently worried that if he commits to openly stating that God is God, he will be pigeonholed into being "just" another apologetic. I understand that worry, since many are dismissed as soon as they openly state that Christ is Lord, limiting their audience. In the way he is working now, he sets many rationalist back on the path to God. It is true that Christ has stated in scripture, "but whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." However, Peter himself, who knew the Christ _personally,_ denied him three times. I believe, from seeing how emotional Jordan gets when speaking on God in front of Churches, that we can safely assume that something significant is going on in his spiritual life. I believe that God is moving in Jordan's heart, God is working on Jordan and through Jordan.
@Scribeintheink Only God knows what is the heart of a man. To claim to know Jordan's thoughts on this matter is in bad faith, and lacking in substantive evidence. It is a very uncharitable assumption, one that I cannot bring myself to consider based on the things I have heard him say and do. I will say that he most certainly has struggled with the faith and that is evident. However, the accusatory tone and dismissiveness you have displayed in this comment reveals to me something about what is in your spirit. Remember, that you are not the final Judge. That is the business of Him in Heaven.
He doesn't say 'Christ is not JUST an archetype'...he says "CHRIST IS NOT AN ARCHETYPE". Don't play with words, not the words of others and especially not the Word of God.
All beauty, all good comes from God, give Him all the glory in all you do. But anytime you put a modifier in front of a word it diminishes it. So i like to say I’m following Jesus.
Respectfully, the bishop himself points at the "strangeness" 4:49 , i think Peterson invokes just that, in understanding Jesus, the mystery of God. Can it be that fundamentalist churches today are repeating what the churches did to Jesus in his time. Since it doesnt quite fit in there present understanding, misinterpreting symbolic verses, they reject concepts that may even bring deeper understanding of Jesus?
Carl Anton Paul Ruck[1] (born December 8, 1935, Bridgeport, Connecticut) is a professor in the Classical Studies department at Boston University. He received his B.A. at Yale University, his M.A. at the University of Michigan, and a Ph.D. at Harvard University. Rauk thinks Jesus is a character in a story nothing more.
Shaw has an amazing conversion experience which was hinted at. Subsequently he lost many of his 'pagan' friends, particularly from the American Indian community.
Let me know if you guys like the video. Drop a comment and make sure you're subscribed if you haven't already 😀
Please share the link to the original or if you have please point me to it.
Link?
It cool to see you touch on people who are Eastern Orthodox. I’m learning more about it. So far going in that direction. I for sure will look up Mr. Shaw and see what else he has to say..👍🏽🙏🏽❤️🩹
I don't. It's just stupid intellectual nonsense
Actually, the Catholic Church has the fullness since the orthodox came from it
I became Orthodox in 2022, and it was the best decision of my life.
Love from Orthodox Greece 🇬🇷 🎉May the Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareth bless you all ♥︎❤
Χρήστος ανεστη
@@clarencebaldwin2424 Aληθώς ανέστη! Indeed He is risen!
CHRIST IS RISEN!
@clarencebaldwin2424 indeed He is Risen
Christos Anesti!!! ☦️
I'm a proud Greek Orthodox Christian and we welcome Martin Shaw to the family
A proud Greek orthodox knows about Christ as much as I know about Chinese philosophy.
@@stamatissavvanis5862 It knows more than you about Chinese philosophy, too!
Don't worry about "Chinese Philosophy" and pick up an unbias book on "Church History.
@@stamatissavvanis5862 he did not claim to know much about Christ, so your comment is irrelevant with his comment.
I had a similar experience with walking into an Eastern Orthodox church at the beginning of the year. Truly a Christianity that demands you change in order to provide faithful and loyal service to Christ.
True repentance, not just asking for mercy, but doing God's will.
@@drjanitor3747 according to what?
@@drjanitor3747 I will keep praying for you.
@@drjanitor3747 Not orthodox myself. But what makes it heretical, rather than merely a sect? A clergy/laity system in its organization? The dependency on iconography? I tend to think of those things as traditional differences.
@@drjanitor3747the Orthodox Church was founded by Christ himself and his apostles ☦️ stop crying Catholic
We should have more orthodox christians in conversations, they're based and more connected with the whole library of our faith, they can easily have for breakfast muslims and everyone else
100%
When it comes to others, we would rather teach than have conversations. We stick to our own circle and have conversation there
lol nope. says who? wow more connected to whole library of our faith? wat you on about
@@fredpaik1349 2000 years of church fathers (most of which had no family or job, just church) vs barely 500 years of sporadic and often contradictory teaching.
@@anon8638 Absolutely
My spirit perked up at the thought that we could be in a pre-Christian society. Lord bring that increase, Amen!
Its a lie. EO has no eschatology because they just leave everything to mystery and dont actually use their brain. Everyone else realizes things are getting worse not better (besides catholics who are amillenial)
Im from Europe and it feels ripe for a change like the one you mention here. It already feels as though something has shifted in a quiet sort of way. I believe orthodoxy may play a significant role.
I believe that he's correct. There is a Saint that came here from Mt. Athos and his name is Elder Ephraim of Arizona. He reposed On December 7th 2019 but he came to America 30 years ago to build Greek Orthodox Monasteries so that there will be a light in the darkness that the world is about to dive into. He prophesied that if the one world Church gathers together on the 1700th anniversary of the ecumenical council, then God will pull all grace from all churches and allow nuclear war. America will be hit hard. The monasteries will be the new foundation of the Church. All of this was done decades ago and he saw this in many visions in the 1990s. The Church will correct itself and become one again in its original Apostolic Orthodox and liturgical form. Many of our Saints speak about these events, including WWIII. So far, the epidemic, world masking itself, financial crash, Greece in financial trouble have all come true. The last prophesy that came true is that WWIII will begin when Israel attacks Iran directly. That happened 3 weeks ago. Next is grounded planes, economic collapse, 6 moth famine, and then Turkey invades Greece... then Russia Destroys Turkey. WWIII will come into full swing at that time.
I did a poll on threads of “is Jordan Peterson a Christian?” The YES vote won.
We as Christian’s need to clarify that he’s not a Christian because Jesus is not a metaphor.
It isnt up to us if he is a Christian.
If he accepted Christ, then he is and there is nothing anyone can do about it.
He doesn't say Jesus is a metaphor or archetype only. A real person can be a physical representation of an ideal. To many, Michael Jordan is the benchmark of what a great basketball player is.
@@123darkdeal good comparison
We as Christians are not set as judges over men. Christ himself said, “I have not come to judge the world, but to save it”.
He also said, “Anyone who is not against me is for me.”
He also said, “many who say Lord, Lord will not enter the kingdom of heaven”.
He also consistently pointed people not to look at him as a man, but to look at God. He also said, God is Spirit and cannot be seen.
Peterson is pointing to that invisible Spirit of God, no different than Christ did. Too many Christians desire to feel knowledgable and safe in their superficial understanding of Christ.. looking only at the door, but refusing to step in. Acknowledging that the bread is true, but not eating of it.
“Even the demons acknowledge the Son of God.”
Jesus is a living metaphor, Jesus is even more real than YOU think He Is
Russian Orthodox is here!🙋🏼♀️🤍☦️
👋 Христос Воскресе!
@@juliacherdantseva7443Воистину воскрес
My brother, lets pass around the protocols of the elders of zion at coffee hour.
Serving Putin.
@@williamoarlock8634 Orthodoxy was around long before putin and will be around long after.
Say what you want but Jordan is the vessel God used to start my Christian journey. I had no respect for the Bible, JP showed these are not just mere 'stories', but the foundation of ALL human condition with a truth beyond truth.
What and how he speaks on it, would make even an atheist pay attention.
He believes in Christ, end of story. He doesn't put it out there to be debated and attacked on and it's his right to but there is a literal video of him speaking about Jesus driving him to tears, but because most people haven't seen it and what he said, they judge.
I became in awe of Christs character before I came to know, but I'm so grateful I've actually found Him, it changed my life completely. My testimony is not even finished yet, God is walking me through it.
I’m so very glad for you. There’s a lot of negativity sometimes around the modes and methods that one comes to Christ, but such judgment isn’t fit for any of us to make. God works through whom He will, and I know JP has been a great bridge to hope and truth. May the Lord bless u on your own journey.
WoW this is amazing! Especially the « I had no respect for the Bible » to now you believe in Jesus 🙏🏼 thanks for sharing. I think that God can use people like JP because he will talk in a certain way that appeals to certain people. Those same people would never listen to a pastor or a Christian telling them « Jesus is the truth, just believe » and thus making them interested whatsoever in the Bible, but as you said it, he spoke about it a certain that started to light the fire in you. God bless 🙏🏼
Christianity is learning to walk by faith and not by sight. I don’t expect JP to be perfect. He is learning to walk by faith in his journey. He will get there. How many of us start at one place thinking we believe a certain way until we get the understanding to change to correct our walk.
Coptic Orthodox here Xristos Anesti Truely Christ has Risen
So you are not in communion with the greeks or the russians? Which orthodox church is the right one?
@@Ehhhhhsureeee A relationship with Jesus is the most important thing .
My brother married a Greek and she has communion in both churches. So are their 3 children. If you believe in Christ and try to live Christ like than you are on the right path .
@@Ehhhhhsureeee they’re both right. The doctrines and traditions given by Christ are the same. It’s man’s politics that got in the way. But we are close to reuniting. May the lord bring us together
It is because Orthodox Christianity is the fullness of the truth! Once you see it, you can’t unsee it ☦️
Bruh
@@eugenenunn4900 what’s up brah?
@@Bronson3344 nothing bruh. Haha jk. I've been listening to Gavin Ortlund and his dialog with Orthadox Priest. Have learned a lot but I believe the fullness of truth is found in Christ and not an institution.
@@eugenenunn4900 I agree the fullness is found in Christ but also in the physical Church that he established on earth. and even promised the Apostles that the gates of Hell would not prevail against the Church. Just like Christ had a physical body, he also had a physical church. You should look into it, and learn about the history of the Church. See which one holds closest to what the Early Church was teaching. God bless you on your journey ☦️
Ya, I’m not sure a bunch of orthodox nationalists that didn’t do much in the way of evangelicalism is the truth.
Understanding Christ as an archetype is not contrary to understanding Christ as a person
You can and should, do both.
Thanks for pointing that out. Wanted to say something similar! Since the trinity god is one and three in the same time. So even the holy spirit is god. And im pretty sure JP is guided by the holy spirit. Accepting the methapor of Jesus verbally, is also the first step of accepting Jesus in your heart. Because you need the holy spirit guiding you, to even grasp the 'methapor of jesus' in that way
@@Wisstihrwas Pleased that you are pleased. Only highlights how the spirit of truth works through us via the holy spirit in accord with all truth, this becoming apparent makes apparent the operational nature of how we are to function as the "body of Christ". I would further Add that if you inquire of the holy spirit for yourself it may be revealed to you that the more nuanced view is that God the Father -Godtheson-and-God-the holy -spirit represent dimensions of Gods existence- like if you were to draw a circle and divide each part equal the dimensions within that help one understand the totality of the God conception. It Thus becomes surface to conclude of them of God - the truth of the conception is within the conception itself
Hmm, it must be me but I don't hear Peterson saying that is the end of the story. When I listen to him I hear a man on a true meaningful journey and sharing that journey with whoever wants to listen
This seems like nobodies trying to be somebodies by deceit. JP is bigger than most in the church today because the dribble churches have produced for so long killed what life it had.
@@thecontagiouscajun4795dude there are vastly more Christians on earth today, not to even mention those who have lived in the past two thousand + years than people who have even heard JPB’s name. It has nothing to do with us trying to be somebody- it’s about Christ. But I guess someone idolizing, following and defending a human being that doesn’t know they exist wouldn’t understand.
yes. However now that his wife has converted to a mystical form of Roman Catholicism he's in great danger.
@@annieBBL24 how so?
Peterson has a problem though, and it is this, he has rendered himself to less than a crawl, yet more than being idol, this can very easily become a situation that goes from productivity wrestling with God to playing with Him, and that is something he should be warned about. If you can tell your father that you are his son or daughter with joy, but you refuse to say anything to those whom you ought to view as your brothers and sisters as their father is yours, to withhold declaring that due to you putting faith in our father, you are a sibling of those who are of the seed of Avraham.
Peterson was in a state of looking at this up and down throughly, we will see if this improves with John Lennox being on the panel discussing the old Testament to new around that roundtable of his.
He has looked at the philosophical and mental aspects, but leaves God Himself waiting by withholding himself from the history.
To reference Yeshua on how you will know the faithful is all well and good until you realize that a child of God will be able to declare who they father is and his tongue remains lodged and that says a lot about the frustrating weight upon his heart, but yet he may trust in only the archetype, but he is going to need far more than that to get him dislodged.
Bishop Barron told him this to his face in his discussion with him
That discussion was 🔥
Ruslan should check it out if he hasn’t yet!
Glory to Christ and his Holy Orthodox Church ☦️
Greek orthodox here, Xristos Anesti.
Αληθώς Ανέστη ο Κύριος, Γιώργο.
Orthodox Church of America in da house! I love you guys, love this video, come see us, worship with us! Please visit an Orthodox Church near you.
This reminds me of St. John Paul II when he said, "the Church must breathe with her two lungs" - a powerful metaphor highlighting the importance of unity between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic traditions. It's a call for embracing diversity within the Church, echoing the message of inclusivity and communion that resonates deeply with Catholics worldwide. Such unity also underscores the importance of preserving the true apostolic foundation of the Church.
there is no importance in unity between the heterodox and the orthodox. It is the opposite of important. Unifying would be the direct degradation of the apostolic, patristic Church
Ecumenism: the pan-heresy of our time.
I’ve been EO since 2014 after decades in hedonism, feminism, psychotherapy culture, academia, sex drugs R n R, psychedelics, fornication and idolatry in a Hindu meditation cult before begging God to SAVE ME. Jesus Christ showed up! Then I spent 10 years in a bunch of Protestant groups before going back to the Latin papal Protestantism (the RCC). When Francis got elected I started READING CHURCH HISTORY and found the Desert Fathers! Baptized in 2014 at age 56! Now at 66 the ascetic struggle as a “householder” towards the One goal in life, Theosis, only gets HARDER! But I have the consolation of KNOWING Christ a bit, not just knowing about Him! Glory to God for ALL things!!! 🙏🏻☦️🙏🏻
Glory to God! So beautiful! Thank you for sharing. ❤️Fellow Orthodox sister☦️🙏🏼
You say why doesn't Christianity have more robust conversations like this, but it's really just protestantism because it doesn't have a robust theology or life in communion.
Would love to watch full interview. I don't know much personally about Eastern Orthodox but i agree with alot of what he says here❤
You should look into it. It is the true faith.
Go to a Divine Liturgy. It's transformative, beautiful and a small piece of heaven.
Saying, an arch-type is a lot different than saying, “just an arch-type.”
As a Catholic that's not happy with its Pope at the moment I will be jumping into the Orthodox boat for a while and will be closely listening to this man thank you! 😀🤙
Don’t leave the church over the pope, we’ve had way worse in our history. The church needs good Catholics now more than ever. If you don’t like your parish try going to a Latin Mass and see if that fits more with you
So what happens when you hear an orthodox you don’t like but hear a Protestant you like, you going to jump the orthodox ship to run to Protestantism?
Weak. you don't leave because there's problems. You stay and fight. what a weak individual.
Glory to God!! I’ll pray for you! ☦️☦️☦️
Check out the Crucible. I left the Catholic Church a few months back and well I needed some help and called the local Orthodox Church. They knew I wasn’t Orthodox and they invited me to Pascha and so went to my first Divine Liturgy. Go and see them man, this is what Church is supposed to be. They don’t run from evil, they confront it.
“Something that is not taking its cues from a culture that does not care for it” 🤯💯 This man put it so succinctly in that phrasing. For me that was Traditional Catholism and attending the Traditional Latin Mass. Even a lot of modern Catholics hate me for liking the Latin Mass, let alone the world.. My father’s a Christian, I went to his Baptist church on and off for over 20 years, giving it a fair go and out of respect for him hoping it would speak to me. But when I asked him to come just once to our Church, he changed subject and would not entertain it. Imagine your whole life you pray for your son to find Jesus and God, then when he does you do not rejoice because it wasn’t in the room of the house you had hoped for.
Surely you know why he acts this way…
I'm so sorry that happened to you. Thankfully you have more than one Father and I hope that is a comfort.
@@Lotterywinnerify not really. I understand he has many misconceptions about the Catholic Church though.
@@danatowne5498 thank you for your reply. This is true and also more than one Mother ❤️
@@wilsonsclips_ I think the answer is obvious he believes the Catholic church will damn your soul by its teaching. Misconception or not that is the most likely explanation.
I'm not surprised. Peterson gets so many things wrong about Christianity.
What bothers me most is suggesting JP is saying there's nothing more to scripture.
He doesn't say that at all. Problem is God raised up an atheist to fill them empty pews, and like Christian's often do they trash, diminish, everyone who doesn't 100% agree with them. JP has done more to help me than anyone in the church. And I am far from the only one.
My problem with Petersen is that he's too entrenched in Jungian philosophy and, as a Christian myself, it comes off as athetistic Christianity more than not so often. He gets caught up in the collegiate, secular view of Christian texts that he often times seems to forget the glory, majesty, and divinity of God and His Son.
I'm sorry but people are way too touchy with JP. I know you mean well, but no where in this video is Ruslan imply JP said there is nothing more to scripture. You are being emotionally protective of the guy, and I understand it is for good reason, there are many that are coming at him for blood. But this criticism is in no way bad faith and simply starting the fact that JP has not affirmed the resurrection of Christ and Christ as a real person that was both man and God, literally.
@@MrCman321 Very well said.
@@MrCman321he literally repeatedly calls him the consciousness which ordered the universe. Ya know the "word" (logos) of God.
@@willtherealrustyschacklefo3812 Oh yeah, and was that consciousness man and God? Did that consciousness literally die and then resurrect, from the dead?
This is exactly the thing, calling Jesus the consciousness that ordered the universe is good, but does he believe one of the most important dictates of the religion? If not, that’s okay, JP is still a good guy and has done a lot, he’s just (not yet) a Christian.
I love Martin Shaw! His parallels with CS Lewis, especially his conversion story are insane to me. Orthodoxy has offered me much of what he talks about, "food in a different way."
Thanks for putting me on Ruslan
This is what Peterson lacks. On top of that, he's CONSTANTLY surrounded by Jew's but often putting on "Christian" events... A Jew should not feel comfortable in their faith at a "Christian" event...
Prager and other deceivers..
@@gavrilogligoric280 Prager comes off, to me, as a psychopath in many of his public speakings. The things he just so casually states is wild to me.
Agree 100%. Is he (JP) not dancing with the same people that just worked the US into passing a bill that essentially outlaws parts of the Bible. I see JP as part of a very powerful group that seeks to subvert the Christian Church in order to control it to their ends.
Yes they should actually but thats another long side discussion from this. The modern orthodoxy did not exist until around 200 ad. And is based on the talmud not the Torah which Jeremiah specifically warned them about.
Intellect tests intellect.. That we can all listen to each other with an open ear and sit with our differences is a gift. It’s no crime to surround yourself with a variety of views, which is how one comes to weed out the right from wrong. It seems Peterson continues to search for truth in such a way. I’m always praying all can hear the views of Christianity and be challenged to consider Christ.
My daily affirmation is this: God i receive your written and spoken promises for my household. Amd with an influx of $125,000.00 every two months God has kept to his words for me. Hallelujah!
Our God indeed is a covenant keeping God. Has he said a thing and not do it? Hallelujah 🙌❤
I'm keying into this. Glory to Jesus. Thanks for this
How do you go about that in that period?
It's not farfetched brethren. It is simply the digital market. God has been so good to my household
Thanks to God, my daughter who introduced me into the digital market. Moreso, thanks to Ms Renee Marie Harrison
JBP is very careful about how he talk about it.
He point a way that the atheist can walk and rediscover Christianity. Without him I would never been interested, same is true for millions.
He is the person bringing the most people back to it.
Excellent point. Dr. Peterson is often taken out of context, as this video shows. The person speaking, Mr. Shaw, has no reality outside of the orthodoxy bubble In which he resides. Always be wary of those who state of the "one true way",history has shown it is not the case. Christians are just that, followers of Christ. The schisms of different viewpoints get in the way of many, as is the case here. No disrespect, pointing out how ego gets in the way of belief sometimes. I challenge those would attack me, to first read -Maps of Meaning, by Dr. Peterson. Afterwhich, you will have a deeper appreciation for the Holy Bible and a better understanding of your own faith. Thank you.
I joined the Orthodox church about 6 mos ago. As i was telling my dad, who has been a Christian his whole life about it, he commented that it sounded like a cult. And again while i was describing the attire i need to wear while visiting a monetary. Dress below the knee, long sleeves and head covering. Outside, we're asked to dress modestly, but still in normal everyday wear. It's really disheartening how much even Christians will judge what they do not understand. It took me a while, but once you learn the reasons for why they do certain things, it only takes you further away from the secular world and closer to God. And isnt that what we, as Christians, are asked to do? (I ask as im watching YT. There is always room for progress 😅)
Martin Shaw is a very underrated speaker. And an absolute sage when it comes to knowledge of mythology. Glad to see him getting some attention.
It's almost like Orthodox Christianty is right about everything.
Don't fall over a naive belief that a denomination has it all "right".
There are holes and flaws in every denomination. We need to follow Christ.
@@erictheguapo Orthodoxy is pre-denominational. Before denomination existed and founded by Christ Himself. Following Christ as you say would mean following the church he established.
@@TommyGunzzz The ortodoxy was not founded by Christ and they are just other denominations. They are much older denominations but denominations nonetheless
@@erictheguapo fascinating. who founded it and when ?
@@TommyGunzzz Which denomination of orthodoxy are you reffering too? The Ethiopian Orthodox founded by the Ethiopian Eunich? Catholicism which was founded by Constantine and the Council of Nicia? (The New Testament Church was not Catholic nor was Peter a pope). Or are you asking about Eastern Orothodox?
Be specific to which denomination you are reffering to.
With respect, give his interview with Matt Fradd a watch. It's on Locals.
Peterson LIVES in Christ, even if he's not so openly yelling "Lord, Lord!".
JBP knows that JC and God the Father are not a metaphor. But people want him to mouth the words.
He'll throw a challenge to all of you. Do you LIVE and ACT like God is real? Or do you just pay lip service?
Im surprised ppl really think Jordan Peterson is christian. It’s quite obvious he is NOT. He is a thinker and he likes to think about religion, social/culture and philosophy, that’s his ultimate love.. not God. It’s just so happen he is very intrigued and interested in Bible and God of the bible.. i respect that. But being smart about it doesn’t mean believing.
To my knowledge Dr. Peterson has never called himself a Christian. I like his lectures but don't know what he really believes.
Every time I hear JBP doing his routine about archtypes and metaphors i can only think of Matthew 11 25:
At that time Jesus declared, “I thank you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children; yes, Father, for such was your gracious will. All things have been handed over to me by my Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and anyone to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
It's amazing to see how people and especially half Christians are reacting to the truth spoken. May God bring you all to the Eastern Orthodox path, coz this is the only true, narrow, demanding and loving path towards Christ.
You have absolutely no basis to say that. And you are conflating the words of Christ with your own ideas, you should be careful in the future with your words.
Don’t neglect the description of our videos. You say we should go check out this video but provide no link, why? The description should be an appendices for the content we are engaging with not just all the merchandise you sell/promote.
Thanks, loved this.
While i myself am not orthodox, I know of a number of former charismatics from the Christian Rock and Metal worlds who are becoming or have made the switch.
One you may be interested in hearing his story is Tommy Green, formerly of the Christian Hardcore band Sleeping Giant, currently of HolyName.
I had the pleasure of interviewing him on The KingdomCore Podcast and have the video on this channel!
This is really good. I don’t see the video you suggested to watch the whole interview. Thank you for telling me where it is
When I was a teenager I quit trying to be liked by people who didn't deserve respect. Same thing the church should do.
Carl Jung was a gnostic. His work is completely influenced by gnostic belief systems, so Peterson's is as well.
We need to get JP and Mr. Shaw on a podcast together ASAP!
The guy says, " jesus is not an archetype." You misquote him saying ," jesus is not just an archetype." Be careful, it makes you seem deceptive, but maybe you are mearly careless.
As soon as you were going over beauty and craftsmanship. I thought of Paul speaking to the Athens in Acts 17:22-34.
Thank you for sharing the talk and going over it. :)
He's also a professor, guys. He's a master at psychology. He lost his career. He's establishing a baseline so that he can reach the most people in a way Christian evangelicals in large cannot do. I'm not the Lord, so I don't know if his name is written in the book of life. But I do know that the Lord is using Jordan Peterson for HIS glory on a massive scale, especially to those who who have NEVER picked up a Bible... but they may now be highly fascinated in it. I praise the Lord for His life and voice.
Based
I love how you post 5000 affiliate links yet no link to the video you just stole for content with barely any value added
Wow, inspiring video! I really liked what he said about the church needing to ignore the world and recover it's identity and worship style.
I don’t know enough about orthodox Christianity but I do agree that in the US it does seem that we have a problem with beauty and excellence in all. I saw Notre Dame Cathedral and I mean wow Where is something similar built in the last 50 years?! It does make one wonder
He didn't say Jesus wasn't "just another" archetype. He said Jesus wasn't an archetype. Jesus wasn't a type of anything. He was//is the thing. All other "things" are a "type" of Him.
There's no need to use the soundboard. It's distracting from the discussion
Yes. More Orthodoxy
Liked this video. Glad to learn of Martin Shaw and looking forward to reviewing some of his information. You should have more Eastern Orthodox individuals and topics on your show.
Gods been dropping bombs on my mind lately.
Christian Teleology: your eyes hurt because you have never used them before. You are beginning to see things the way they really are. "Many are the troubles of the righteous." Jesus did not come to bring 'peace'. In Matthew Jesus explains: 'I come as the sword of division'. The closer you draw to the Lord - the farther away you will be from the ephemeral and the material things of this world and in-turn, those people who have been taken by it. You may feel lonely but you are never alone for you were with him from the beginning 😶🌫John 15:18-27. Stay blessed fren ✝😇🙏
@@BetterDeadThanRed99 Thank you. My eyes truly are open. Many things to do with Church and the Bible are foreign to me still but I feel like I have a basic understanding of the different churches. I think I’m leaning towards the Orthodox Church. I’ve got a lot of work to do.
@@BetterDeadThanRed99 thanks for the citation my friend. It fits my current life episode with Christ very nicely, deeply but profoundly aswell ❤
I admire Jordan Peterson but I have long thought that this critique or response to Peterson was needed.
I am so happy to hear this analysis.
Glad to see you found Martin Shaw.
Orthodoxy has a decentralized structure with self-governing churches. This autonomy leads to disagreements on administrative or liturgical matters.
Which is what they have, confusion.
Man reminds me of Mr. Edwards (Victor French) from Little House on the Prairie
Keep thinking the way you’re thinking, you’re finally on the right track. As someone who grew up evangelical and then converted to Roman Catholicism in my 20s; I can’t even begin to explain how perplexed, confused and sad I am by someone like you who was given the most incredible gifts available to humans; the sacraments and the liturgy. I can’t begin to fathom what happened to see you land where you did but I hope you come back
Thank you for reminding me that Martin Shaw exists
1 Hearken, O ye people of my church, saith the voice of him who dwells on high, and whose eyes are upon all men; yea, verily I say: Hearken ye people from afar; and ye that are upon the islands of the sea, listen together.
2 For verily the voice of the Lord is unto all men, and there is none to escape; and there is no eye that shall not see, neither ear that shall not hear, neither heart that shall not be penetrated.
3 And the rebellious shall be pierced with much sorrow; for their iniquities shall be spoken upon the housetops, and their secret acts shall be revealed.
4 And the voice of warning shall be unto all people, by the mouths of my disciples, whom I have chosen in these last days.
5 And they shall go forth and none shall stay them, for I the Lord have commanded them.
6 Behold, this is mine authority, and the authority of my servants, and my preface unto the book of my commandments, which I have given them to publish unto you, O inhabitants of the earth.
7 Wherefore, fear and tremble, O ye people, for what I the Lord have decreed in them shall be fulfilled.
8 And verily I say unto you, that they who go forth, bearing these tidings unto the inhabitants of the earth, to them is power given to seal both on earth and in heaven, the unbelieving and rebellious;
9 Yea, verily, to seal them up unto the day when the wrath of God shall be poured out upon the wicked without measure-
10 Unto the day when the Lord shall come to recompense unto every man according to his work, and measure to every man according to the measure which he has measured to his fellow man.
11 Wherefore the voice of the Lord is unto the ends of the earth, that all that will hear may hear:
12 Prepare ye, prepare ye for that which is to come, for the Lord is nigh;
13 And the anger of the Lord is kindled, and his sword is bathed in heaven, and it shall fall upon the inhabitants of the earth.
14 And the arm of the Lord shall be revealed; and the day cometh that they who will not hear the voice of the Lord, neither the voice of his servants, neither give heed to the words of the prophets and apostles, shall be cut off from among the people;
15 For they have strayed from mine ordinances, and have broken mine everlasting covenant;
16 They seek not the Lord to establish his righteousness, but every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol, which waxeth old and shall perish in Babylon, even Babylon the great, which shall fall.
17 Wherefore, I the Lord, knowing the calamity which should come upon the inhabitants of the earth, called upon my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., and spake unto him from heaven, and gave him commandments;
18 And also gave commandments to others, that they should proclaim these things unto the world; and all this that it might be fulfilled, which was written by the prophets-
19 The weak things of the world shall come forth and break down the mighty and strong ones, that man should not counsel his fellow man, neither trust in the arm of flesh-
20 But that every man might speak in the name of God the Lord, even the Savior of the world;
21 That faith also might increase in the earth;
22 That mine everlasting covenant might be established;
23 That the fulness of my gospel might be proclaimed by the weak and the simple unto the ends of the world, and before kings and rulers.
24 Behold, I am God and have spoken it; these commandments are of me, and were given unto my servants in their weakness, after the manner of their language, that they might come to understanding.
25 And inasmuch as they erred it might be made known;
26 And inasmuch as they sought wisdom they might be instructed;
27 And inasmuch as they sinned they might be chastened, that they might repent;
28 And inasmuch as they were humble they might be made strong, and blessed from on high, and receive knowledge from time to time.
29 And after having received the record of the Nephites, yea, even my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., might have power to translate through the mercy of God, by the power of God, the Book of Mormon.
30 And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually-
31 For I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance;
32 Nevertheless, he that repents and does the commandments of the Lord shall be forgiven;
33 And he that repents not, from him shall be taken even the light which he has received; for my Spirit shall not always strive with man, saith the Lord of Hosts.
34 And again, verily I say unto you, O inhabitants of the earth: I the Lord am willing to make these things known unto all flesh;
35 For I am no respecter of persons, and will that all men shall know that the day speedily cometh; the hour is not yet, but is nigh at hand, when peace shall be taken from the earth, and the devil shall have power over his own dominion.
36 And also the Lord shall have power over his saints, and shall reign in their midst, and shall come down in judgment upon Idumea, or the world.
37 Search these commandments, for they are true and faithful, and the prophecies and promises which are in them shall all be fulfilled.
38 What I the Lord have spoken, I have spoken, and I excuse not myself; and though the heavens and the earth pass away, my word shall not pass away, but shall all be fulfilled, whether by mine own voice or by the voice of my servants, it is the same.
39 For behold, and lo, the Lord is God, and the Spirit beareth record, and the record is true, and the truth abideth forever and ever. Amen.
He’s building a retreat center in England!
What he says resonates with me, but I don't like how he lumps Baptists and Catholics together.
Amen! That was a silly statement!
Romanian ORTO here❤❤❤❤❤🇷🇴🇷🇴🇷🇴
Finally someone call his bs.
Thank you.
Orthodox is not the only ones who know this. Bishop Barron has spoken of this many times.
All Christians should accept this reality: too many think Jung's archetypes is an acceptable way of understanding Christ.
Christ is the person to the level that he has humor! Serbian Orthodox is here!
I wrote Peterson an email asking him to stop wearing our symbols in association of our Faith, and to actually go to church and pray. No response yet.
Traditional Catholicism does the exact same thing he is talking about as well.
Recommend people look into that as well.
I can jive with this - he articulated way better than I can what I've been feeling for years: there is way too much "lyric" christianity, and not enough "epic" ...
Exeter is near me, cool to hear it mentioned here.
Something Peterson might need to get more clear on too, is if he is for The City of God and can consider himself dedicated to it, or for the aspiring finite cities of the materialist world.
The Holy Spirit is saying some things through Martin Shaw for sure, imo. Some things that stuck me deeply (I'm paraphrasing, probably) are: The churches he had been to were "pulpit centered", not "altar centered" - boom.
That he was taking Tango lessons recently and church was like that. This set off a chain reaction in me of realizing he was talking about learning steps or practices that 'made room' for Christ to inhabit his life like 'the music' inhabits that dance... He also has said he felt that older people needed to be ready to help in what is coming (I'm older, duh, lol). Let me be clear - I'm not lifting up the man - I'm sharing what he said because I believe it to be Spirit led. I pray all the best for him in his walk with Christ and am grateful for his words. Thanks for the vid! :)
A lot of Protestants see beauty and art as worthless and dumb. They love money though. If you can make "good money" writing cheesy Christian novels or drawing illustrations for greeting cards or designing houses that's okay. But the money is what really matters.
It is no wonder that Peterson and others recognize these literary elements in the greatest story ever told. God is the Master Artist, not only in the things that He has made. He is the Master Storyteller, and He wove the threads, telling of our redeeming Christ, into the lives of real people for millenia.
It was _exactly_ the recognition of this narrative, this foretelling, that blew the minds of the apostles upon Christ's ascension, and this was the very way that they spread the Gospel.
If Peterson only hears Christ calling him by name, and the invitation to come and sit at His feet and _know_ Him, the transformation would be life-changing. This should be our prayer for him.
Why diss Pageau & Peterson or maybe I mean pit them with a narrative against each other for views? They have been on panels together before and conversed.
he's into mythology. attracted to the mysticism of the orthodox church, with all of it's
icons. makes sense.
Yep. I think its funny Ruslan thinks thats a mark of his faith.
Eternity in Their Hearts is a great book about how God set up mythologies in each culture to help them understand who Jesus is... ❤
I agree with the value of a specific “Mythologist” Orthodox professor and some interesting insights he brings, but it is also important to remember that Protestantism’s focus on been on correct doctrine from Scripture. Therefore the best of Protestantism are those that have the most Biblically exact and robust doctrines.
We could learn something from other past Christian traditions.
But nothing really good in this video hasn’t been said by a Dr MacArthur or R C Sproul many times. Even Dr. M L Jones.
He didn’t get into the mythology stuff much so I guess I need to watch some of his other videos.
Serbian orthodox, greetings from Germany.
Ruslan, big respect for the loving approach to all your videos. You are not afraid of truth and to push yourself to better understand your faith.
Really... we have to use words to express things. I would say few, but really, no one person ever expresses them selves perfectly. Except Jesus Christ. Even then, our understanding tears apart His every Word. Christ talked so simplisticly yet so profoundly even a child can understand.
I’m also wary of people referring to the “figure” of Christ. I think it’s ok if someone approaches Him that way but those of us who’ve crossed the bridge should be clear he is not a “figure” but the God Man who really lived died and rose.
New listener here. I noticed you said in your intro that you are making content to encourage people to live a life that blesses God? Correct me if I'm wrong, but who could possibly bless God? I thought God was the one who gave the blessings? I'm confused.
Criticsim accepted, but the church can be friendly, outreaching and still hold strong to the Scripture. To further his point, we should be pleasing God and not people.
Look at the societies that are predominantly eo. As many problems as the west has (which are recent) the east has always been garbage. This dude has no argument
Why did Jordan Peterson cross the road?
The answer isn't obvious. It's bloody serious. It's no joke, man.
Peterson has made clear that he does believe in God. Where he struggles is accepting Christ’s resurrection. He’s an exceptionally rational mind, so he still has reasoning to do in regards to it. I’m actually very glad he’s doing what he’s doing so publicly because we’re getting to look inside Peterson’s mind as he reasons out his faith. His is arguably one of the most complex minds in the world (made public) and I’ve seen him go from viewing God as a metaphor to believing God and Christ are not only real, but are who they say they are. Peterson should be challenged, but he should also be allowed to continue doing what he’s doing because this will not only be a huge victory for the Kingdom, but will give us a better understanding on how to reach a person with such a complex mindset.
I am not interested in him calling a man out who is not there.
Which might be why JP never really takes a firm stance on faith. He doesn’t yet actually know Jesus! He doesn’t profess a born again belief.
To be fair. I am sure I have heard Peterson make the exact same point himself about myth becoming manifest in the world and the uniqueness of that event.
It's both. It is not just that Christ is the great archetype, or that he is real; It is that he is The Great Archetype *and* he is Real, *and* he is God. He is The *I Am.*
I believe that Jordan is currently worried that if he commits to openly stating that God is God, he will be pigeonholed into being "just" another apologetic. I understand that worry, since many are dismissed as soon as they openly state that Christ is Lord, limiting their audience. In the way he is working now, he sets many rationalist back on the path to God.
It is true that Christ has stated in scripture, "but whoever denies me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven." However, Peter himself, who knew the Christ _personally,_ denied him three times.
I believe, from seeing how emotional Jordan gets when speaking on God in front of Churches, that we can safely assume that something significant is going on in his spiritual life. I believe that God is moving in Jordan's heart, God is working on Jordan and through Jordan.
@Scribeintheink Only God knows what is the heart of a man. To claim to know Jordan's thoughts on this matter is in bad faith, and lacking in substantive evidence.
It is a very uncharitable assumption, one that I cannot bring myself to consider based on the things I have heard him say and do. I will say that he most certainly has struggled with the faith and that is evident. However, the accusatory tone and dismissiveness you have displayed in this comment reveals to me something about what is in your spirit.
Remember, that you are not the final Judge. That is the business of Him in Heaven.
Everyone needs to read the ethics of beauty
He doesn't say 'Christ is not JUST an archetype'...he says "CHRIST IS NOT AN ARCHETYPE". Don't play with words, not the words of others and especially not the Word of God.
Great episode, good work.
All beauty, all good comes from God, give Him all the glory in all you do. But anytime you put a modifier in front of a word it diminishes it. So i like to say I’m following Jesus.
Respectfully, the bishop himself points at the "strangeness" 4:49 ,
i think Peterson invokes just that, in understanding Jesus, the mystery of God. Can it be that fundamentalist churches today are repeating what the churches did to Jesus in his time. Since it doesnt quite fit in there present understanding, misinterpreting symbolic verses, they reject concepts that may even bring deeper understanding of Jesus?
Carl Anton Paul Ruck[1] (born December 8, 1935, Bridgeport, Connecticut) is a professor in the Classical Studies department at Boston University. He received his B.A. at Yale University, his M.A. at the University of Michigan, and a Ph.D. at Harvard University. Rauk thinks Jesus is a character in a story nothing more.
Shaw has an amazing conversion experience which was hinted at. Subsequently he lost many of his 'pagan' friends, particularly from the American Indian community.