Why isn't the Orthodox Christian Church well known in the West? (한글 자막)
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- Опубликовано: 22 авг 2023
- In this video we ask Father John Mahfouz of Saint Matthew Orthodox Christian Church in Torrance, California about why the Orthodox Church is not well known in the Western world. The Church has been around for 2,000 years yet in the US it is very rare to find someone who has ever heard of it. Many factors contribute to why that is, and Father discusses them in this video.
To find out more about St. Matthew Orthodox Christian Church, visit our website at www.saint-matthew.net/ or visit our Facebook page / stmatthewtorrance
For more content about the Orthodox Church, we recommend the following resources:
Patristic Nectar Publications
/ @patristicnectarfilms
patristicnectar.org/
The Orthodox Ethos with Father Peter Heers
/ @orthodoxethos
Father Spyridon Bailey
/ @fatherspyridonrocor
The Royal Path Podcast
/ @theroyalpath
Orthodox Talks by Priestmonk Kosmas
/ @orthodoxtalks3541
Ek Nekron Podcast with Father John Valadez
deathtotheworld.com/podcast/
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I hope it spreads to the whole west. The western world really needs to come back to the roots of old, unchanged, ancient christianity which can only be found in Orthodoxy. May God bless the West and return it to the fulness of the one true Church.
You do realize we have already had that, and it is called Roman Catholic Church
@@sandyriver4705 no, it isn't rome departed from Holy Orthodoxy about a thousand years ago...
This is the arrogant sentiment of Orthodoxy that is annoying. They do not have enough Gratitude to Catholicism for defending Christianity against Islam and for propagating it to the rest of the world. Protestants and EO's are objectively inferior in global historical evangelism.
Catholics continue to fight on the front lines today in terms of the 'culture war' and its time that the EO's put themselves out there instead of complaining from the side line
@@sandyriver4705I hate to break it to you, but not even Rome believes that about itself today. When you have a synod on synodality, because your church lost something vital to its church governance, you have a problem and that problem can be traced back to the great departure otherwise known as the schism of the pope from the Catholic Orthodox Church
@@sandyriver4705No this church get with a big change by rewriting a God’s law by Popes many times and even change view on a trinity.
Catholic Church crate the idea of purgatory and the infallibility of the Pope as Vicarius Filii Dei, Christ never teach this.
I'm a 43 year old American Protestant, and I didn't even know the Orthodox Church existed until a few years ago.
It’s the orthodox CULTS and 48,000 man made protestant CULTS. Please read my other comment
Nazalost,to mi nikada nece biti jasno.Moderno je vreme,svako na svetu moze da istrazi odakle je poteklo hriscanstvo,koje godine se rascepilo(1054.) i sta je sve nastalo iz zapadnog/rimskog...❤❤❤
I am an American that recently switched from Methodist Protestant to Orthodox.
I saw how my Protestant brothers bend their knees to secular politics. I had people trying to make me Catholic, but their organization's egregious crimes towards children was so much that I thought converting to Sunnah Islam was way better than becoming Catholic.
But I couldn't give up Jesus.
He is our Lord and Savior.
Then the Lord showed me a sign.
Orthodox hasn't bent the knee to secular politics nor do we have a pope that is deemed "infallible".
I've been baptized as Orthodox for almost a year now, and I feel like I am where I belong.
🙏🙏🙏
The struggle with “secular politics” is a product of living geographically within the sphere of “western power/influence”. Of Eastern Orthodoxy would be free of this “mess of modernity” because they’re centered in traditional eastern cultures. But the closer its leaders get to western power you also see them having to dialogue… and you see similar issues arise.
It’s not comparing apples to apples. In America, you’re comparing mainstream Christianity (and Americanized Catholicism of over 70million people) to Eastern Christianity which is made up of these decentralized diasporic immigrant churches who of course maintain their traditions. They haven’t had any need or pressure to “Americanize/Protestantize” because they are so small and insignificant.
The Russian Orthodox Church was very much involved with Communism, persecuting other Christian groups and Jews, and is now supportive of Putin and the annihilation of Ukraine! Nice choice!
You’ve gone from the Methodist CULT to the orthodox CULTS. ONLY Jesus can found a Church which he did two thousand year’s ago called the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church which is also Jesus’s mystical body on earth! Please watch on RUclips the following video’s the warning or illumination of conscience by Christine Watkins. Then Following Padre Pio - who shows the true beauty of Catholicism which is everyone’s true home! The Papacy can not be destroyed. Don’t call protestant’s Christian! Question why did an entire orthodox parish convert to Catholicism through the powerful intercession of padre Pio IF they were already Christian? Do Christian’s become Christian? God bless.
@@Rome_77
The Orthodox Church cannot be changed without councils... So even if a few become corrupt, the rest of the Church simply denounces them, and they must repent or be cast out of the Church. Hence why political and social pressure will not work on the Orthodox Church - it's too big, worldwide, and requires universal agreement... No government or social force on the planet can do this.
Speaking as a life-long Protestant who converted at age 68, because Protestants, if they even know that Orthodox exist, they look too Roman Catholic so they are not even intesested. When I told my sister I converted she said "worshipping" icons is wrong, lol.
I knew about Greek Orthodox since I was in high school and I was not Greek. My current parish I knew about when I was in my early 40s, visited once, but stayed away because it seemed like the RC church and I had no understanding. It was my now 30 yr old son's research of the ancient church fathers that brought him in, and then him giving me books to read and explaining the faith that brought me in.
That's awesome. I am a former Calvinist and I converted to Holy Orthodoxy this year during Lent. It's the best thing I've ever done. I get the same stuff from my Protestant friends about icons, it's just ignorance. The city I live in, I thought the parish I now go to was a Jewish synagogue because it had a huge dome on the top, almost similar looking to the mosque on the temple mount. Turns out Muslims took the the Byzantine style architecture from us, among other things. Sorry to rant, but I had a similar journey. God bless you.
@@andys3035 thank for sharing your story. Welcome home and Glory to God!
@@Death2Compromise thank God you're a catachumen! God be with you!
dj, I agree, those who are ignorant lump Orthodoxy with catholicism. Couldn't be any further misinformed. Lord have mercy. Thank God you're now Orthodox!
@@orthodox1717 thank you friend
As a protestant seriously considering orthodoxy, I'd say my one complaint is that the orthodox church feels passive on the subject of evangelism. Maybe it's cultural, but I feel like you have the Good news and you kinda keep it for yourselves. I discovered orthodoxy by accident and since protestants don't teach church history prior to the reformation, I didn't even know orthodoxy existed until a few years ago. People in the west are hungry for a return to authentic Christianity, but few in the Oethodox world are "casting out their nets"
Fr. John could answer your question in a heartbeat. What I do know and agree with, most in the west have never heard of the true faith, that is, Eastern Orthodoxy…but God Is always calling. You didn’t discover Orthodoxy by accident, God led you. May he continue to guide you.
The difference is, we, orthodox like translating multiple texts, not just the bible, but also liturgy chants, theology books etc. We, orthodox like incorporating things from the culture of the people we convert to give them new meaning in Christ without compromising the gospel. We also have to build churches there, different to protestants having an empty building and having it be a church. This is much harder to do than Protestant evanghelising. There's also the fact we are working on a catechism since we dom't have an official one. Remember the orthodox were persecuted during communist rule with a few of the escapees arriving in America and starting the churches in America, repairing the church in the east after the fall of the USSR was important.
I was the church drummer in a Mexican immigrant Protestant church in the USA. I was very surprised when at my first orthodox liturgy my Priest preached about how it is the Holy Spirit who attracts souls to the Church and that it is not our job to go and convert others. It was a culture shock when I first heard this but when you read the life of the saints and come to learn about theosis, it all makes perfect sense. In order to be the light of the world we must first take up our cross and acquire that light in ourselves.
Not passive. Fully active WITHIN yourself. You will attract others with your righteousness
“Indifference for Missions equates to a denial of Orthodoxy”
- Archbishop Anastasios
(Yannoulatos) of Albania
Making disciples of all nations is a commandment, not a suggestion. That being said are we to evangelize the way the Protestants do? Maybe not the best approach, but we all have a role to play to help bring the people around us into the light of Holy Orthodoxy.
I discovered the Orthodox Church through research. I felt very compelled to know what early Worship was like. I used to pass a Melkite Church, not knowing what it was. Just that the outside of the building was beautiful. Also I knew of a Church with a big chi-ro on the front that always caught my attention. Turns out it was call the Annunciation Greek Orthodox. I'm still blown away by the beauty and Traditionalness of Orthodoxy.
You have the holy Catholic Church. You have 48,000 protestant CULTS. You have the orthodox CULTS. ONLY Jesus can found a Church NOT man. Now please read my other comment
Orthodox Christian Currently living I south Korea. There is a wonderful Orthodox community primarily in seoul. I'm just curious why is there Korean subtitles?
The answer is simple. They chose to ignore it out of selfish ignorance,hatred towards it and personal and political interests. They chose modernism , protestantism, catholicism. (Not to mention that they don’t find anything interesting in those anymore and they become Muslims nowadays)
Whoever wants to find Orthodoxy it is there and not so hard to find it.
Everyone is fascinated by ancient Greece and philosophers but they “somehow” miss the part where Greeks became Orthodox since the time of Apostles.
The Western preachers often prefer to quote Greek philosophers instead of Orthodox fathers.
It is their choice. 🤗
its an ethnic club, you only get odd looks and awkward silence like they just want you to stop enquiring and leave them alone, you can say whatever you want about Rome or even protestants but tell you what if you wander in interested in being a part of it they will welcome you instantly
@@gianp33 This is life , some people will not like you and some people will. Some people will think you are weird and some people won’t. The Orthodox Church has dressing rules that you probably don’t know about. People would look you weird if you went into a Mosque with your shoes on. It is the same thing in Orthodox Church.
I would choose genuine emotions over a fake welcoming anytime. Genuine emotions create genuine relationships.
Afar from the relationships side of things tho , the Orthodox Church is the real deal you will just have to discover it. Fr. Josiah Trenham is a great introduction for fluent English Speakers.
True, in many ways. No one tells them that the Parthenon in Athens was a Christian church longer than it was a pagan temple..☦☦
@@gianp33 oh, i know that can be true at times. But there are changes being made. And there are many, many reasons to continue to keep going in such situations..as members see your seriousness.
The rewards are too many to speak about..
Western civilization in its comfort and decadence corrupted christianity into a feel good circle jerk session. In its cowardice it allowed heresy to take root and eventually hijack the churches. In its greed it allowed consumerism and materialism to take priority over christ. It's becoming harder and harder to call western christianity, christianity when it continues to deny christ's teachings.
Lord have mercy. Father, ignore these comments and continue to worship Christ in spirit and truth
Please leave your man made protestant CULT and come home
I appreciated your true faith as an Orthodox
Streaming video is spreading Orthodox all the way to Los Angeles and Hawaii.
The West was Orthodox for a 1000 years while heresies in the East like iconoclasm, Arianism, the Marcionite heresy, docetism, and many others came and went. The biggest obstacle to Orthodoxy in western countries is these two spirits which cause much difficulty in the Church. One us complacency which is common among cradle Orthodox who are often unconcerned with the gospel coming to their neighbors. The other is the arrogant Spirit of bravado which is common to orthodox Christian converts. In both cases they often insist western people become eastern in order to join the orthodox church. This was never done in Greece by the Hebrew Apostles. This was never done in Russia by Saints, Cyril, and Methodius, or those who came after them,. In fact, this was never done in any orthodox country, which is probably why they became orthodox. Orthodox Christians in America are nothing like the Orthodox of those countries. They think that because they keep traditions from old countries that it makes them like them, but in fact, it makes them the exact opposite.
Love this. ❤️ I can see everything you're saying by just engaging with these ppl online. It seems to me that they think because they "keep traditions," that makes them better. When the Bible talked about the early church preaching the gospel wrong and leading ppl astray. Just cuz u were the first church doesn't make u perfect. Also, I still can't get over all this "ICONOGRAPHY" and "VENERATING THE SAINTS" when the Bible clearly states not to do this.
@@TEWMUCH western Christianity had the exact same traditions as eastern Christianity. My comment was not speaking of modernist evangelicalism or Protestantism. It was speaking of the western Orthodox tradition. I’ve done several videos recently on iconography and veneering the saints. These are found throughout scripture. The Bible condemns worshipping idols. Even with Christ we don’t worship his image through the use of iconography. We worship the trinity. The temple was full of images and the temple building itself was an icon of Christ which is why the Psalmist writes several times, “I bow toward your holy temple.” Hebrews and other books in the New Testament are very consistent with the Old Testament iconographic practice. We have far greater revelation of portraying heaven because of Christ and the prophets. We could not portray God the father, but because God has come into the world we can portray God the son, and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.
@@TEWMUCH the scripture on tradition: 1 Corinthians 11 - “1 Be my imitators, even as I imitate Christ. 2 Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things, and hold firm to the traditions as I delivered them to you.”
1 Corinthians 11:16 - “But if anyone wishes to dispute these things, we have no other custom, and neither do God’s Churches.”
2 Thessalonians 2: “15 And so, brethren, stand firm and keep the traditions which we taught you, whether by word or by letter.
2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw yourselves from every brother [or sister*] who walks in rebellion, and not after the tradition which they received from us.
@joachimjustinmorgan4851 thanks! I've actually been asking ppl where this idea came from in the Bible, and no one can site anything for me, so I appreciate your sharing.
What do you think of the scripture saying:
Deuteronomy 5:8-10
[8]“You shall not make for yourself an image in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
[9]You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
[10]but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Because to me, verse 8 is pretty straight forward. Do not make ANY images of things in heavenly realms. Then it says dont bow to them or worship them in the next verse. But I would consider the iconography to be ruled out in verse 8.
Now, the Orthodox Church is *very well known in the west
Orthodox Church and gentiles/converts will go through a huge revival back into the one Church. Take heed.
i´m from South America and Orthodox Christian, i didn´t chose were to born but i did chose in wich God believe
Само напред,Бог станује у ❤.Увек у свему само тражите,у мислима и у делима:'Господе,покажи ми истину'
It's not too late, It's GOD's perfect time
Really? No Greek subtitles 😢?
The devil doesn't like the truth to spread
Because of a lack of evangelization and fixation on Eastern ethnic backgrounds and cultural ties rather than universal preaching
😊😊😊😊
Some people here describe the orthodox church as political or ethnic. The writing of two Albanian guys is extreme, so I would like to share my comments to them also with anyone here.
I am afraid their look has been colored by their own eyes, polluted by their own venom. Projecting their own feelings over something they don't really know, or know just from the outside. They may be biased by the Albanian-wide agenda that put their ethnic program above _any_ faith.
On the other hand some of them are clearly attracted to orthodoxy. Probably a reason why they visit this channel in the first place. Surely it sits firmly in their roots - a great deal of Albanian ancestors had been either Roman catholic or orthodox Christian (before their 1878 PL national agenda set foot). And that's a call they may not understand, but can't ignore.
In my twenty active years in Serbian Orthodox Church across at least seven countries I have never heard a single word expressed against the Albanians whatsoever. Or anything remotely resembling any of the words they utter under this video. Yet Albanians have annihilated many Serbian orthodox churches, monasteries and even graveyards during the last 75 years. The destruction was especially savage in recent history, in 1999 and in 2004. So you see, only the true spirit of Christ's love and the fear of God, plus believer's repentance can explain the phenomenon that the SOC keeps shy of condemning those people. We don't believe we are sinless. In fact, we _know_ we aren't sinless. So all the violence afflicted to us and to our shrines is useful for our awakening in the Lord and for the repentance, and all the humiliation is to God's glory.
The orthodox are extremely wary to exercise and project enemy feelings to anybody. And that's universal. One and only time I myself have heard a Serbian priest talking about Albanians was in a sermon in which he told Serbian believers that Albanians are to them what Samaritans were to Jews in Christ's own words (Luke 10:29-37).
The orthodox church is the opposite of what some people comment accusing it for ethnic confinement. It is open to everyone, both by default and by its all-pervasive Spirit. We take pride in receiving people of different background among us. We see it as our pure gain and rejoice (but we do not deny our own background, why should anyone?). In its prayers the OC is open to everyone's suffering, no matter the background. Our hearts and prayers always go to those people, like now to Ukraine, Gaza and Syria. Those prayers have been actively offered in our services. There may had been no Albanian speaking priest for a short while in 1990s in Albania, but that's an obvious consequence of the own Albanian communist regime policy, severely banning the Church throughout half a century. Besides, the Islam is since the fall of communism always faster with the territorial and human re-conquest than the gentle, unobtrusive preaching of Christ who never imposed anything and has commanded us not to.
Ethnic approach poses a minor existing quirk in some parishes. It is a Truth test for some rare orthodox communities and rather for mere individuals here and there. But I'm sure anyone can evade them easily by undertaking a smallest effort. The majority parishes are of the open, welcoming spirit. Especially in Albania, Macedonia and Kosovo it shouldn't pose a problem, as the orthodox church there is fully acclimatized to the predominantly Albanian environment. The priests can advise discreetly and direct anyone to a fitting community. If a community is truly orthodox - and by far the most are - Albanians or any other wherever will be fully welcome, without any doubt.
Just traveling to Serbia or Greece, doesn't mean someone's been to the Church let alone experienced it. Some people just look for an excuse not to try, or just want to offend the Church. I wouldn't make any statements about Islam, for instance, before I've been to a mosque and met some people there. Which I have.
In case you're truly interested in true Christianity: something is expected from you too. If you can't stand your neighbor in your local orthodox church, like you as Albanian can't stand a Serbian or Bulgarian or a Greek guy, then your own spirit doesn't allow you to attend the orthodox church; not the church itself. It's your self-imposed limitation then, not the limitation of the church. Jesus Christ requires you to be humble and meek and to love your neighbor in order to receive his blessing and Grace. Even if you become a member of American, or Antioch OC for instance for that reason, you'll drag your attitude there too and won't make progress spiritually before you get rid of it.
But it will be more difficult there than with your true neighbor.
In my city I have made contact with several Orthodox Churches in my area and received no reply or evangelization at all. I find that discouraging and has made me reconsider.
I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Try going to a liturgy, and speaking to the priest during coffee hour. Antiochian and OCA churches are likely to be your best bet for being very open and welcoming, but I'd go to whatever is available.
Don't give up hope my brother
Why don't you just go to one on Sunday? You don't need an invitation, the doors are open to everyone seeking the truth! Go visit all of them in your area if you want to!
A lot of priests I've found are good in person but not so great with email!
Why should that discourage you? The truth is the truth whether people reply to you or not
Тражите да будете присутни једној Литургији,увек је недељом.Може свако слободно да уђе,видећете како се осећате након тога❤❤❤наставите тражити истину
Zato sto se nije sirila ognjem i macem. Niko nije prisiljavan da predje u Pravoslavlje.
If it wasn't well known before, it is now. I applaud the perseverance of Orthodox Ukrainians during these violent times we're living under 🙏🏻🇺🇦☦️🙏🏻
Why are more mosques being built in Europe and not orthodox churches?
Probably because there are more Muslims there than Orthodox Christians
Зато што не разумете ништа.Хришћанство се раздвојило 1054.али само је исток остао на истом путу а запад није,ово су последице,крај запада и његове ароганције...
Не знам одакле се јављате,нама је овде све јасно
because it is eastern?
Зато што је Истина❤
simple:
massive influence of Catholicism and Protestantism
Luther revolted against the Roman Catholic Church.
He did not rebel against the Eastern Orthodox Church Or Faith....
There was No formal reformation of Orthodoxy.
As a Roman Catholic I often look at history and I realize that we were blessed with many advantages over the Orthodox Church. No hate to our sister Orthodox Church but you guys simply never stood a chance against the Catholic west.
For starters, the Catholic Church was never conquered by the ottomans and so we could focus on expansion. The west was able to colonize the rest of the world through access to the Atlantic Ocean which the orthodox couldn’t do.By not being subject to the Muslims we also developed the renaissance and so much of western art, music, science and culture. All of which was funded by the Catholic Church and remains the pinnacle of western culture. The orthodox never had a DaVinci, Michelangelo, Bramante or Bernini for art. Or a Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi, Chopin, Liszt or Bach for music. The Catholic Church made advancements in all the arts and sciences. The orthodox could not expand through oversees empires. Russia was landlocked for centuries and even when it did expand it was unable to spread orthodoxy as well as catholicism was spread. The scientific revolution also occurred in the west as did so many other advancements. The Orthodox church essentially could not compete with the Western Catholic Church. Case and point, the calendar we all use today was invented by the Roman Catholic Church. It’s called the Gregorian calendar and was named after pope Gregory XIII who ordered its creation. Most countries in the world use the CATHOLIC CALENDAR. It’s incredible actually. So even the calendar we all use in the modern world was set by the church. In essence it is not a fair comparison because the Catholic Church had many advantages. We as Catholics see the eastern Christian’s as holy and they were the first line of defense that the Christian west had against the mongol and Muslim invaders. Our sister orthodox for centuries kept the west safe so that someday Christianity could spread around the world. Lastly, the Latin west was not impressed by Eastern Orthodoxy. We had ornate Latin masses with grand organ music and choirs for centuries within grand cathedrals. We had all the things the orthodox offered even if in the orthodox mind it seemed heretical. We had the Virgin Mary and Christ and the saints. We had sublime art and music to go along with our worship. All of that art is still marveled by the rest of the world. So orthodoxy did not have anything new to offer the Latin west in terms of culture, art, music, or technology. It was never going to happen. Most importantly! I can’t stress this enough: there was no orthodox Christian country with enough influence, wealth or power to convince the west to become orthodox. The Orthodox Church has no central leadership to even begin such a cause. That still remains the case.
Sweet. Now, how about you return the horses of Constantinople to the Orthodox? You know, that quadriga from the hippodrome that the Roman church stole when they pillaged the city. Along with many other things. Also, it would be quite nice to acknowledge the fact that the great masters of the Renaissance were taught by Byzantine artists. And that some of humanity's greatest composers and authors (Tchaikovsky, Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, to name a few) were Orthodox. Oh, and the fact that the document which served as the basis for papal authoruty in Europe ("Donation of Constantine") was entirely forged by Rome.
All this is not to say that the Eastern Roman Empire, the richest and most technologically advanced state in Europe of its time, mattered in any way, or that Rome needed anything from it. Or that you shouldn't pretend it never existed. You do you. But please give the horses back, thank you.
@@tipsywoodpecker I'm all in. But where to put them? Give them to Turks? Athens, perhaps? ;)
@@Emerald_City_ the greek or the russians, obviously. Oh wait, do you actually think they're still not returned because Constantinople is occupied? That's a funny excuse.
@@tipsywoodpecker would you hand them over to Turks? I wouldn't.
@@Emerald_City_ I wouldn't either, as I've said, the greeks or russians. Sorry, I assumed you were the original poster. The roman church would always talk about how they "preserve" everything they stole from Constantinople within the Christian world. Just another excuse to hold onto the loot.
Call no man Father???
Forgive me, I have not been Orthodox very long and am still learning these things. I asked this same question myself early on. We call our biological fathers, "fathers", don't we? The use of the term father in this context is to honor the priests role in our lives as a guide, like a father is to a child. We may call a certain scientist, the "father of modern day physics" or a certain musician the "father of motown jazz". Or if a certain old man was very sweet to us as a child and guided us in difficult times, we may say "he was like a father to me". These usages of the word "father" seem similar to me. I could be wrong though.
The actual translation from Greek is called no man YOUR father. The Greek language has several words for concepts, such as love. Agape, Eros etc. Same for father. Orthodox ethos channel has a good explanation of this.
In my experience (I attended Orthodox Church for many years), it’s not well known in the west because Ortho churches are primarily an ethnic club rather than a religious organization.
It served to protect the ethnicities under persecution form Islam. Now it’s changing and more open to all
I am a convert to Orthodoxy as of 3 years ago, and I think this is a huge issue. The Orthodox Church passively allows for a Western Rite to exist, and yet retains a jarringly foreign mode of worship for westerners and is confused when it doesn’t catch on very fast.
If the Orthodox Church wants to expand in the West, it needs to drop its insistence on being Eastern. The Church has already said the Western Rite is valid, and that is the mode of worship that will be most familiar and easy to understand for us in the West. The theology is why I became Orthodox, I shouldn’t have to pretend to be Greek or Russian or Serbian to worship God properly. Let the Western Rite flourish!
@@colefriel3171 what do you mean by "Western Rite"...?
@@colefriel3171you’re very confusing sir. What western rite is there when the church was technically founded in the east? Please explain what you mean
Relics, icons, and praying to Mary/saints turns me off of the Orthodox Church.
What have you been taught about these things or what is your understanding of them that troubles you?
@@StMatthewTorrance The first time I saw a relic, it was a chunk of tissue under a piece of glass in a church in Albania. I was friends with the priest, and he explained the relic was part of a body from a dead saint. He said saints didn't decompose at the same rate as other people. To me, it looked disgusting (and very decomposed). I've seen the same thing all around the Balkans in different countries. The most disgusting was in Sophia, where they kept an entire finger in a golden box at the front of the church.
As far as icons, I always thought it was an odd development because OT law forbid images in worship while paganism used it constantly. Even in the NT, the gospel writers warn us about idolatry. I looked into the issue, and saw the early church didn't use icons in worship, but the practice became common in the near eastern churches. Leo III banned the practice for a while, but it returned later and became a staple of Orthodox churches around 800-900 AD.
As far as Mary, I was stunned the first time I heard Catholics and Orthodox believe in Mary's perpetual virginity, that Mary didn't die, and that Mary ascended to heaven similar to Elijah from the OT. There is nothing about this in the Bible, and the gospel records Jesus had brothers and sisters (presumably from normal relations).
As far as praying to saints, I've heard the argument that Catholics/Orthodox don't pray to saints like they are God, but pray to them to intercede. I won't go into the argument, but I've been in a church in Thessaloniki where the congregation was literally instructed to worship the image of a saint. The instructions were written in English and Greek (Latreia). I thought it was repulsive.
@@andyontheinternet5777Помаже Бог.Верујте,као неко ко долази из атеистичког васпитања(ми смо прошли комунизам,Србија),имала сам исти проблем као Ви сад.Но,ја сам тражила Истину и само истину,и пронашла сам је.Тражите само истину,увек о томе мислите,ту нека су ваше мисли.Наћи ћете❤
@@GordanaMitrovic-jq9cs Boze blagoslov Gordana
Because the eastern church didn’t evangelize.
I do believe the Orthodox churches are the oldest, and the longest contiguously existing church denominations. While it is descended from the early original church, and certainly hasn't changed much over time, I find it implausible that it is exactly the same as the early church or that it has never changed. The first Christians were all Jews. They didn't have nice buildings, nice robes, or gold plated sacred articles. They mostly ate sitting on the floor, and met in people's houses. In one way they were similar to modern day Christians in China, who have to meet in homes and in secret to avoid persecution. After Constantine legalized Christianity, then we started to see nice buildings and such. I can definitely see the Byzantine legacy with most of the Orthodox churches, as well as what appears to be some inspiration from classical Judaism. I think the ethnic components in Orthodoxy act as both a lure and a barrier to new converts. Some people like that stuff and think it's cool, whereas others find it to be too much.
Oh, oh, so much i wish you would talk about with an Orthodox priest. So much.
@@lindaphillips4646 One of my best friends is Coptic Orthodox and we have all sorts of interesting discussions. Right now I'm Lutheran, which is Orthodox adjacent.
@@Procopius464 good to know. I know many former Lutherans. 💝 i hope i didn't say anything offensive. I just reread your first comment. I was a bit hesitant about it, but i now understand better what you were saying. ☦📿☦ i still hope you will talk to an Orthodox priest, also, because there are some important differences.. even as i recognize the value of your friend. The Lord will lead us when we ask..
C.S. Lewis wrote that the Lord has obligated Himself to answer us and help us if we seek and knock. Many have experienced that...
One more comment though: the early Christians WERE Jews, but they also worshipped in the Temple for as long as they were allowed to. they met privately for Holy Communion..
I love the verse in Acts that says that many priests believed. I believe they might have well been great help to the Apostles as the Church flourished and grew. The services have always been Liturgical.. there was never any adlib that i know of.. which was clearly a part of the prtnst world i came from.. even as it was simple and quiet and conservative in doctrine..
Ok...enough from me.
@@lindaphillips4646 No offence taken. I know there are some differences between EO and Coptic, and between us as well. I actually think most of the differences are cultural and procedural, however. I was raised AG, but started looking elsewhere as an adult because they adopted the casual rock and roll style procedures, which I don't like. If I had married an Egyptian woman I probably would have joined the Coptic Church, or at least would have been willing to do so. Although there are some theological differences which I can't accept. I don't know how much you have to agree with everything in order to join. We Lutherans also have a liturgical worship service, and we believe in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the communion. We also have images at the front, which the newer Protestant denominations are unwilling to do for various reasons. We have a nearly life-sized crucifix in the front of our church behind the alter, which was a custom inherited from the RC Church. The point of the original reformation was not to start a new church, but rather to clean out all the Papal innovations which are not Biblical, so most everything else we kept. I know you guys make use of images (iconostasis), but will not use anything 3D. The 2D, vs 3D, vs no images at all (iconoclast) is an old debate which keeps going on and on. I would like to have discussions with some Orthodox priests. I have the connections to do it with my friend, but getting out there is another matter because it's over 40 minutes away. I think it's good for different denominations to talk, the Bible says iron sharpens iron.
It's too bad the original Jewish Christian community didn't survive as a unique group. If not for the Jewish rebellion and resulting diaspora they probably would have. It would be interesting to see how those people do things. Today we have Messianic Jews, but they're more of a recent movement. Like a hybrid between Judaism and Pentacostalism.
Because you keep talking about the "East" all the time, when the Church founded by Christ is "Catholic" = universal
Yes the orthodox church is referred to as catholic
@@thefakebriskeh and the Catholic church, where people are faithful, is called orthodox...look up Chesterton's book
I we serve ONE God, how can there be so many religions? Religion is man-made! We should Serve God, not succumb to the doctrines of some religion that was developed by man. Don’t jump down my throat either 1) without thinking about what is being said, 2) if there is no truth to what I said, and 3) if you believe in freedom of speech. I didn’t ask you to take and run with what I said, or even believe it, I gave my understanding of things just as you are going to give yours. And, I applaud you for having a thought about the subject, because some people don’t!
Heresy. It was Our Lord, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who founded our church, the holy, catholic and apostolic church, and the apostles spread its glory throughout the world. Our faith is not man-made, our doctrine is the only true one.
@@lealista_imperial Doctrine is one thing, and faith is totally something else!! And, your faith, each person's faith, is based on their relationship with God! Where's the heresy????
@@wandakelly7811 You are committing heresy by saying that the Orthodox faith is man-made.
@@lealista_imperial You are totally NOT understanding what I say, and don’t understand the meaning of faith and religion. Second, you are entitled to your opinion, as is EVERYONE posting their comments up here. Where do you get understanding, (and understanding is one thing God tells us to get above ALL things), if you’re not asking questions, and know, that you don’t know everything????? No need to respond,I respect your opinions, and I’m not even asking you to respect mine. If you’re not searching for truth, how do you understand God who IS Truth!!!!
@@wandakelly7811You said: "how can there be so many religions? Religion is man-made! We should Serve God, not succumb to the doctrines of some religion that was developed by man" and that's a blatant lie, got it?
Because it's a Eastern countries faith
🇮🇱✝️Genesis 12:3 is expressed through the deeds ❤️ shown in Matthew 25:31-46 ✝️🇮🇱
Why isnt RC spread more into the East? Com on man 😂
Young lady You know there are eastern Catholic Churches right? The Catholic Church is universal baby
@@ImTiredOfThisChurch There is also Orthodox in the West. Was being sarcastic.
Because we don't like the Roman Catholics much either. People in the west read the Bible for themselves.
Orthodox Christians read their bibles.
@@dj393 ok. But they don't preach it they are always preaching about their church fathers and saint this and saint that.
They also contradict this Bible that they allegedly read. Show me in the Bible where it says to make items with your hands to bow down to and to kiss.
Show me in the Bible where it says to worship Mary and exalt her above God. Show me in the Bible where it says to invent saints or holy ones and then pray to them. I will save you some time. You can't show me because the Bible does not say to do those things.
Another thing the Eastern Orthodox do wrong is they constantly boast that they have the only real, original church that dates back to Jesus. But if they had read the Bible why don't they know about the laborers in the vineyard.
@@dj393 By the way, you could specify "eastern" orthodox.
You use the words "orthodox Christians" as if it refers only to eastern orthodoxy and implying that no other Christians are orthodox. Your religion and rhetoric are too confusing maybe that's why your church doesn't catch on in the west.
Sadly, words like "catholic" and "orthodox" have come to define the cults. When in reality they are Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox. Which, I am sorry to say, are not Christian.
@@br.m In what way is the Orthodox Church a cult?
@@TW-fs3fj Don't worry. Jesus will judge us as individuals. Not as groups.
There will still be some Orthodox and Catholics in Heaven.
The way it is a cult is the way they pretend to be the one true church and the only way to Heaven.
Jesus is the only way. Not your church not my church.
Please consider the New Testament epistles. There was never one true church.
Catholic and Orthodox both claim to be the only way, the one true, the first, the original!
Dating all the way back to the time of Jesus! They say. Yet there was never such a church. Not in the time of Paul and not today.
Therefore, anyone claiming their church is the one true way! The same is a thief and a robber.
Especially when Orthodox and Catholics constantly insult protestants. Like your church goes back to Laodicea! Protestant churches only go back 500 years!
I will never tire of telling Orthodox and Catholics to read the parable of the laborers in the vineyard until they get over themselves.
Jesus is the one true way, not your church that dates back to Laodicea and not my church. Jesus is the way.
And the Orthodox still make idols and bow and kiss them. Same like the Catholics. Everyone sees this you can't pretend it does not happen.
[Al-Quran, Surah al-Maidah, Verse 109 - 120 of 120, The Dialogue / Conversation Between Allah & Jesus (Prophet Jesus/'Isa, Peace Be Upon Him) On The Day Of Judgement]
﴿ يَوْمَ يَجْمَعُ اللَّهُ الرُّسُلَ فَيَقُولُ مَاذَا أُجِبْتُمْ ۖ قَالُوا لَا عِلْمَ لَنَا ۖ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ ﴾
[ المائدة: 109]
109. [Be warned of] the Day when Allah will assemble the messengers and say, "What was the response you received?" They will say, "We have no knowledge. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen"
﴿ إِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ اذْكُرْ نِعْمَتِي عَلَيْكَ وَعَلَىٰ وَالِدَتِكَ إِذْ أَيَّدتُّكَ بِرُوحِ الْقُدُسِ تُكَلِّمُ النَّاسَ فِي الْمَهْدِ وَكَهْلًا ۖ وَإِذْ عَلَّمْتُكَ الْكِتَابَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَالتَّوْرَاةَ وَالْإِنجِيلَ ۖ وَإِذْ تَخْلُقُ مِنَ الطِّينِ كَهَيْئَةِ الطَّيْرِ بِإِذْنِي فَتَنفُخُ فِيهَا فَتَكُونُ طَيْرًا بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَتُبْرِئُ الْأَكْمَهَ وَالْأَبْرَصَ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ تُخْرِجُ الْمَوْتَىٰ بِإِذْنِي ۖ وَإِذْ كَفَفْتُ بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ عَنكَ إِذْ جِئْتَهُم بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ فَقَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ إِنْ هَٰذَا إِلَّا سِحْرٌ مُّبِينٌ ﴾
[ المائدة: 110]
110. [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."
﴿ وَإِذْ أَوْحَيْتُ إِلَى الْحَوَارِيِّينَ أَنْ آمِنُوا بِي وَبِرَسُولِي قَالُوا آمَنَّا وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّنَا مُسْلِمُونَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 111]
111. And [remember] when I inspired to the disciples, "Believe in Me and in My messenger Jesus." They said, "We have believed, so bear witness that indeed we are Muslims [in submission to Allah]."
﴿ إِذْ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ هَلْ يَسْتَطِيعُ رَبُّكَ أَن يُنَزِّلَ عَلَيْنَا مَائِدَةً مِّنَ السَّمَاءِ ۖ قَالَ اتَّقُوا اللَّهَ إِن كُنتُم مُّؤْمِنِينَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 112]
112. [And remember] when the disciples said, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven? [Jesus] said," Fear Allah, if you should be believers."
﴿ قَالُوا نُرِيدُ أَن نَّأْكُلَ مِنْهَا وَتَطْمَئِنَّ قُلُوبُنَا وَنَعْلَمَ أَن قَدْ صَدَقْتَنَا وَنَكُونَ عَلَيْهَا مِنَ الشَّاهِدِينَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 113]
113. They said, "We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses."
﴿ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ اللَّهُمَّ رَبَّنَا أَنزِلْ عَلَيْنَا مَائِدَةً مِّنَ السَّمَاءِ تَكُونُ لَنَا عِيدًا لِّأَوَّلِنَا وَآخِرِنَا وَآيَةً مِّنكَ ۖ وَارْزُقْنَا وَأَنتَ خَيْرُ الرَّازِقِينَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 114]
114. Said Jesus, the son of Mary, "O Allah, our Lord, send down to us a table [spread with food] from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers."
﴿ قَالَ اللَّهُ إِنِّي مُنَزِّلُهَا عَلَيْكُمْ ۖ فَمَن يَكْفُرْ بَعْدُ مِنكُمْ فَإِنِّي أُعَذِّبُهُ عَذَابًا لَّا أُعَذِّبُهُ أَحَدًا مِّنَ الْعَالَمِينَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 115]
115. Allah said, "Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you - then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds."
﴿ وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَٰهَيْنِ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ ۚ إِن كُنتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ ۚ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ ﴾
[ المائدة: 116]
116. And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
﴿ مَا قُلْتُ لَهُمْ إِلَّا مَا أَمَرْتَنِي بِهِ أَنِ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۚ وَكُنتُ عَلَيْهِمْ شَهِيدًا مَّا دُمْتُ فِيهِمْ ۖ فَلَمَّا تَوَفَّيْتَنِي كُنتَ أَنتَ الرَّقِيبَ عَلَيْهِمْ ۚ وَأَنتَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ شَهِيدٌ ﴾
[ المائدة: 117]
117. I said not to them except what You commanded me - to worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them as long as I was among them; but when You took me up, You were the Observer over them, and You are, over all things, Witness.
﴿ إِن تُعَذِّبْهُمْ فَإِنَّهُمْ عِبَادُكَ ۖ وَإِن تَغْفِرْ لَهُمْ فَإِنَّكَ أَنتَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ ﴾
[ المائدة: 118]
118. If You should punish them - indeed they are Your servants; but if You forgive them - indeed it is You who is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
﴿ قَالَ اللَّهُ هَٰذَا يَوْمُ يَنفَعُ الصَّادِقِينَ صِدْقُهُمْ ۚ لَهُمْ جَنَّاتٌ تَجْرِي مِن تَحْتِهَا الْأَنْهَارُ خَالِدِينَ فِيهَا أَبَدًا ۚ رَّضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُمْ وَرَضُوا عَنْهُ ۚ ذَٰلِكَ الْفَوْزُ الْعَظِيمُ ﴾
[ المائدة: 119]
119. Allah will say, "This is the Day when the truthful will benefit from their truthfulness." For them are gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow, wherein they will abide forever, Allah being pleased with them, and they with Him. That is the great attainment.
﴿ لِلَّهِ مُلْكُ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ وَمَا فِيهِنَّ ۚ وَهُوَ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ ﴾
[ المائدة: 120]
120. To Allah belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth and whatever is within them. And He is over all things competent.
* * * End * * *
[Al-Quran, Surah al-Maidah]
﴿ لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُ مَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنصَارٍ ﴾
[ المائدة: 72]
72. They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the Messiah, the son of Mary" while the Messiah has said, "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Indeed, he who associates others with Allah - Allah has forbidden him Paradise, and his refuge is the Fire. And there are not for the wrongdoers any helpers.
﴿ لَّقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلَاثَةٍ ۘ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَٰهٍ إِلَّا إِلَٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۚ وَإِن لَّمْ يَنتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ ﴾
[ المائدة: 73]
73. They have certainly disbelieved who say, "Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God [Allah]. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.
﴿ أَفَلَا يَتُوبُونَ إِلَى اللَّهِ وَيَسْتَغْفِرُونَهُ ۚ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ ﴾
[ المائدة: 74]
74. So will they not repent to Allah and seek His forgiveness? And Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
﴿ مَّا الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ إِلَّا رَسُولٌ قَدْ خَلَتْ مِن قَبْلِهِ الرُّسُلُ وَأُمُّهُ صِدِّيقَةٌ ۖ كَانَا يَأْكُلَانِ الطَّعَامَ ۗ انظُرْ كَيْفَ نُبَيِّنُ لَهُمُ الْآيَاتِ ثُمَّ انظُرْ أَنَّىٰ يُؤْفَكُونَ ﴾
[ المائدة: 75]
75. The Messiah, son of Mary, was not but a messenger (prophet); [other] messengers have passed on before him. And his mother was a supporter of truth. They both used to eat food. Look how We make clear to them the signs; then look how they are deluded.
﴿ قُلْ أَتَعْبُدُونَ مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ مَا لَا يَمْلِكُ لَكُمْ ضَرًّا وَلَا نَفْعًا ۚ وَاللَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ ﴾
[ المائدة: 76]
76. Say, "Do you worship besides Allah that which holds for you no [power of] harm or benefit while it is Allah who is the Hearing, the Knowing?"
* * *
[Al-Quran, Verse 111 of 111 from surah (chapter) Yusuf (Joseph)]
﴿ لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُولِي الْأَلْبَابِ ۗ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَىٰ وَلَٰكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ ﴾
[ يوسف: 111]
111. There was certainly in their stories a lesson for those of understanding. Never was the Qur'an a narration invented, but a confirmation of what was before it and a detailed explanation of all things and guidance and mercy for a people who believe.
111. Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Quran) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of the Allah's existing Books [the Taurat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel) and other Scriptures of Allah] and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a Mercy for the people who believe.
111. There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe.
111. Indeed in their stories, there is a lesson for men of understanding. It (the Qur'an) is not a forged statement but a confirmation of that which was before it and a detailed explanation of everything and a guide and a mercy for the people who believe.
[Tafsir Tafheem-ul-Quran, Maududi]
[Almuntakhab Fi Tafsir Alquran Alkarim]
111. Indeed there has been an example or a great lesson in the narratives of the Messengers; a lesson lessoning those of intellect into abhorrence of impatience and despair and the abuse of divine faculties. Such narratives as have been disclosed by divine means are not a feigned tales, but an integral part of the Quran corroborating and authoritatively validating all the divine Books revealed before it in time and serving as an excellent interpretation expounding all the statutes and ordinances past and present revealed to all human beings exacting obedience from the whole. It is emblematic of the spirit of truth that guides the faithful into all truth and it is a mercy to those who lift to Allah their inward sight.
[Tafseer Tafheem-ul-Quran by Syed Abu-al-A'la Maududi]
(12:111) 111. There is an object lesson in these stories of the former people for those, who possess common sense. That thing which is being sent down in the Qur'an is not a forgery, but (is absolutely genuine and) it confirms the previous Scriptures, gives details *(80) of everything, and is a guidance and blessing for the Believers.
*(80) That is, "It gives details of everything that is required for the guidance of man. " Some people take "details of everything" to mean the details of everything in the world. So, when they do not find in it the details of mathematics, physics, medicine etc. etc. they become skeptical. Whereas the Qur'an claims to give the details of only one `subject', "Guidance", for which it has been sent down, and it does give the details of everything that is essential for it.
* * *
DEO DE DEO, LUMEN DE LUMINE, DEO VERO DE DEO VERO, GENITUM NON FACTUM, CONSUBSTANTIALEM PATRI, PER QUAE OMNIA FACTAE SUNT
They don't want to be well known because they would have to open their books.
What are you talking about?
There's a huge difference between quoting scripture and understanding scripture. The Scribes and Pharisees knew the Old Testament by heart, and still rejected Jesus Christ.
Catholic by it's very name is Universal..basically for all people..Orthodoxy is more ethnic for a particular region...history shows this
Bullshit. The orthodox is also universal, but Cathlocisim is not orthodox.... you catholics are so ignorany and biased, inv=credible for the 21st century
Nth like that. Orthodoxy is Catholic aka Universal as you said, it's just not Roman Catholic aka Papist. Orthodoxy isn't ethnic, it's merely decentralised as the Church was for a thousand years until the Bishop of Rome decided to claim supremacy for himself. The ethnic names before the word Orthodox Church mean only the jurisdiction the Church belongs to, aka Greek Orthodox for the Patriarchates of Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch (although sometimes Antioch is called Syrian-Orthodox or Arab-Orthodox by some as well), Jerusalem and the Autocephalous Churches of Greece and Cyprus, Russian Orthodox for the Patriarchate of Moscow etc... we when speaking about the Church we don't use the ethnic prefixes, we just say Orthodox, with the exemption of when we want to say sth like "oh this Church does not use Byzantine Chant, but European music and does the service in Russian. It's a Russian Orthodox Church".
Orthodoxy means correct or right doctrine in this case..not universal..because any opinion can be thought of as right not the same as universal..everything else you said can be true because of distances and regional differances
@@gabinocarreon7218 You know nothing. The complete name is The Orthodox and Universal Church, a memeber thereof was till 1054 also what is called know as the Catholic Church. For „commercial” use its used today only as Orthodox.
@@eleftheriosmas Good point. Unfortunately I find quite often new converts saying: I became a Greek/Romanian/Serbian/etc Orthodox. This can make other people outside the Ortodhox Church that this is about ethnicity.
They became Orthodox , in a / and are attending a church that happens to be under that certain jurisdiction.
The Orthodox Church is the church of the East not the West.
The Orthodox Church is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
@@eleftheriosmasWait until we bring you back to full communion with the see of Peter . it took millennia to get here ,it wouldn’t happen in one night. But hey We’re patient 🤣 it’s gonna happen one day. If you ever prayed in your life for Christian unity… you sure know the Pope will be included 🤣
@@ImTiredOfThisChurch ofc the Pope is included. Orthodox Popes will be ordained again since the last one, Pope Sergius the IV died and the See of Peter will be restored from heresy.
@@eleftheriosmas lol how do you explain we have 21 councils and you have only 7? Oh I know it’s because we have both the Pope of Rome and the councils and you have none!
@@ImTiredOfThisChurch hahaha! Is that rly your argument?! Hahahahahaha! Hey Papists, watch that guy's reasoning!!!
Only true orthodox are God's true people the jews.
True orthodox or genuine orthodox are schismatics
after 70 ad no one can claim to be from that people bro, stop larping
@@gianp33 the concept of a messiah or saviour is from those people long before your orthodox churches Eastern or western.
If youre a christian and you believe this, you're lost
@@frederickanderson1860 Jews are tribes people who just want to save themselves. It is not universal. It is a selfish religion.
Because their priests aren’t celibate missionaries and because they failed to even try completing the great commission. Instead, they just started churches in already established Christian nations and stole sheep.
They are too busy worshiping their idols and praying to dead people...
Orthodox priests are missionaries around the world, although not in celibate - the monks, on the other hands, are in celibate.
We have spread the Gospel by word, Catholics, on the other hand, by sword, hence the bigger Catholic global impact. Try to imagine, which method truly reflects Christ?
Name me one nation which was first Catholic and then "stolen" by the Orthodox?
@@Matkovic992 lol, not really, but orthodoxy sure begged for Catholic swords when dealing with Islam, which oddly enough happened right after the great schism.
@@frekigeri4317 Lol, yes, really.
Great Schism happened in the year 1054, while the Ottomans came to Europe in the 14th century, 300 years later.
And the Florence Union (on which it was discussed the possibility that Catholics provide assistance to the Orthodox East in the face of the Ottoman threat) happened in the 15th century. That is the only time the Orthodox asked Catholic West to help against the Islamic threat, which, of course, Vatican refused to give, because the Orthodox would not bow to the Papal primacy, leaving the "brothers in Christ" to the mercy of the Islamic sword. Also, shall I remind you the time when the Catholic crusaders plundered Constantinople in the 13th century, from which the Byzantine Empire never truly recovered, which reduced the Orthodox strength to repell the Ottomans century and a half later?
Read, and learn, a bit.
@@Matkovic992 😂 a day is a 1000 years and a thousand years is a day to God according to Saint Peter. 300 years is nothing to God.
Weird, so no help was sent because of Orthodox pride.
Its paganism just like other's
Because the west is Catholics job given by God. And their doing good job. As an orthodox Christian, I believe that Catholicism is as true as Orthodoxy.
Lord have mercy. This is false. Catholicism is a heresy. Read the lives of the Saints.
@@orthodox1717 You too. Read about Church Fathers and what they think about Rome and the Pope.
Why do you say that? Orthodoxy and Catholicism have many differences in belief. Such as original sin, immaculate conception, and the belief in God's essence to name a few. The Orthodox church considers some of the catholic churches beliefs as false. So how can they both be true if both have various different teachings and beliefs? Also how do you know that the West being catholic was God's will? God gave free will to people the answer to that isn't that simple. It wasn't given by God exactly certain events based on man's free will occurred for the West to become that way
@@Shgg7978 I know that we have differences, but the thing is that you can't disprove their view. I'm open to what they believe, but i believe my Armenian apostolic church more because of my church tradition. And your church can have things that my church doesn't believe. But i accept your tradition and your view, I'm not attacking.
ah...
So you think that from Poland to Brasil that have Catholicism as the main faith are in error right? 🤦 150+ countries have Catholicism. It's apostolic church with the Holy Spirit, never speak shamefully to my brothers and sisters that way. It's God's will that my Armenia have Armenian church, Russia russian and etc. Because we have different cultures. For latin west perfect is latin Catholic church.
Brother, with all my love, I tell you to be careful. You are falling into the temptation of the sin of ecumenism.
because it is wrong.