Martin Shaw on re-enchanting the Christian dream
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- Опубликовано: 7 сен 2024
- Martin Shaw is a renowned storyteller and mythologist, who in the last couple of years has his own quite extraordinary conversion story to tell.
After many years as a poet, author and teaching others through the West Country school of myth, Martin had a visionary encounter that confounded all his expectations.
Martin is now a Christian but sees this homecoming as a fulfilment of a life invested in mythology and storytelling. He tells Justin and Belle his story as they discuss storytelling, mythology and rediscovering Christianity as a ‘dream’.
For Martin Shaw: drmartinshaw.com/
For Re-Enchanting: www.seenanduns...
There’s more to life than the world we can see. Re-Enchanting is a podcast from Seen & Unseen recorded at Lambeth Palace Library, the home of the Centre for Cultural Witness. Justin Brierley and Belle Tindall engage faith and spirituality with leading figures in science, history, politics, art and education. Can our culture be re-enchanted by the vision of Christianity?
thanks to Ruslan this is a fascinating conversation
I came here because I saw Ruslan's reaction to this video to 🙌
I always watch ruslans teaser then just go straight to the source video😂
@@betheduckyme too! I don't like how Ruslan speeds up the videos he's commenting on. But I appreciate his content 😊
As one of the older folks, my advice is just go to church, week after week. It will become a part of you and you will become part of it. That is how I would start. 💙🙏
Beautiful
Thank you for posting this; beautiful advice from a beautiful soul~ ⚓️
Just because someone attends the show, doesn't mean that they become the show, which is the same saying that good attendance dosen’t necessarily result in good grades.
I live in a rural place where there is no church but one Baptist (I prefer Orthodox) . I'm so bummed.
@@RunninUpThatHillhI feel for you. That would be hard when you have a heart to really go. I was fortunate because I just came back to God in about 2021. I didn’t even have Orthodoxy on my radar at all. I first went to a charismatic church for 2 years. But now been looking into Eastern Orthodox. I went 3 months and really enjoyed it and learned a lot. Then went on holidays for a month. While on j
Holidays I was going to have a new vehicle when I got back cuz my van was getting so bad. But my vehicle was not ready when I got back. So I had no vehicle to drive to the Orthodox Church for over a month. The good part is my new vehicle should be ready in less then a week now and I can continue on my Orthodox spiritual journey. The other good thing in the meantime for sure is learning orthodox prayers at home and reading, plus watching RUclips videos that teach me more about Orthodoxy. Bless you in your Journey. May the Lord Bless you in finding the body of Christ his Church.👍🏽🙏🏽❤️🩹
Martin Shaw, Paul Kingsnorth, and these new and surprising concerts (or perhaps recognitions or rememberings) are a true light in the darkness. Praise be to God for these times we are living in ☦️
I am 67 years old. This is one of the most instigating and lucid things I have heard lately. Many of the takes expressed here are spot on. Not to engage with this after 44 years of ministry, 30 of which as a reformed charismatic bishop who has been immersed in the Great Tradition, of late, would be sin. Thank you Martin.
This is brilliantly expressed. I think that everyone who really loves Jesus as a child but loses sight of Him in their church experience as a teen looking for deeper answers comes back through a miraculous experience, a touchpoint in which Jesus says, "Yes, I am real. You can trust Me. I have been here all along."
I want to add that the reason he doesn't like the charismatics is that it is one of those "Mother Kirks" that started out in the Holy Spirit and was taken over by the flesh. Revival is very much needed there.
Wow Martin was cooking in this! It's interesting he talks about his experience on his vigil. There's this moment that always stuck with me. When i was an unbeliever, my mom sent me to this catholic retreat and we went to this christian play or something in this outdoor amphitheater, and it was a warm day with literally no wind at all, and out of nowhere we are sitting there and this incredible gust of wind comes out of nowhere and blows across the crowd for a few moments and then disappears and it goes back to being no wind for the rest of the day. The entire crowd kind of nervously laughed because it was so weird. I'm 35 now, and I must have been 11 or 12. I didn't become a Christian until i was 29, but even when I was an atheist I was constantly reminded of that day, because it was just THAT STRANGE where it even sent a chill down the spine of a militant atheist decades later. I don't think i will ever forget that moment for the rest of my life.
What a wondrous memory. Have you seen any Tarkovsky films?
This man’s spiritual journey really mirrors mine. So incredibly thankful to have found my spiritual home in the original and only church of Christ in the Eastern Orthodox Church. ☦️☦️❤️🙏🏻
Martin you have inspired me. I love your advice to “ go for a walk and find something to be admired by you…” and “ wonder is ever present…”
Have been loving this podcast from across the pond. Listening to Martin Shaw and Paul Kingsnorth resonates deeply. A friend posted this C. S. Lewis quote and it seems appropriate.
“Peace, a high standard of life, hygiene, transport, science and amusement - all these, which is what we usually mean by civilization, have been our ends. It will be replied that our concern for civilization is very natural and very necessary at a time when civilization is so imperiled. But how if the shoe is on the other foot? - how if civilization has been imperiled precisely by the fact that we have all made civilization our summum bonum? Perhaps it can be preserved in that way. Perhaps civilization will never be safe until we care for something else more than we care for it.”
C.S. Lewis from his essay ‘First And Second Things’ (God in the Dock) written circa 1942.
I just discovered this guy😀. What a great mind. So grateful to RUclips for letting us find brilliance like this! ❤
It's this message that transforms despair into hope, darkness into light, confusion into coherence. This message provides gratitude for your old negative as stark contrast to your new positive.
This was so wonderful, I am sharing it even with my priest. I am grateful for his candor about Jordan Peterson who has been frustrating me for a while now. Matin Shaw has cleared that up with down to earth, understandable, clear, concise, language. Such a contrast!
Ah, this really blessed me. I'm a writer and i understand the mythic in our stories and lives but i was wavering a bit about my stories because some of them are not "obviously" Christian. My son is going to be baptized as an Orthodox Christian although he was raised episcopalian and I am charismatic. Martin's peace in the Orthodox faith gives me peace about that denomination now. Thanks so much.
I found this video because of Ruslan. Thank you.
Onwards with gratitude
Onwards and beyond!
“I don’t need everything stretched on the rack of exegesis.” BRILLIANT way of putting it.
So needed to hear this! Thank you I’ve been drawn to and amazed by the story of CS Lewis and Tolkien. And thanks for pointing to Hope and Adventure and Revival and Mystery think I need to dream and pray! Well done!
This was amazing, thank you. I am in this process at the moment and it is so important for those of us doing so to have these kinds of talks available to us so we don't feel so alone.
A suggestion if you found this video helpful - what I did during my own journey was a search on youtube for "Orthodox testimony" and found a number of people recounting their journey to the ancient faith. The inspiring stories were good for inspiration and motivation.
Amen! Thank you so much!
For me, Moby Dick was an interesting way of of getting to grips with the disenchantment of the world that I found myself in. Martin Luthers break with the church, the subsequent search for certainty, the dismissal of the imagination for facts, and the obsession with the Old Testament drive for retribution is all present in Melvilles work.
I do think the observation of Epic and Lyric poetry is particularly salient in these days. I thoroughly enjoyed the conversation with Martin. Thank you so much.
Although Moby Dick was never assigned reading when I was in school, it’s one of those books I’ve discovered as an adult and love so much that I keep a copy by my reading chair. Like The Peregrine, it’s one of those rare treasures that you can open to ANY page and encounter beauty~
I LOOOOOOOOOOOVE the "way of the pilgrim." I read it every couple of years.
So much synchronicity in this for me. Thank you for doing this interview!❤
Very interesting and engaging.
If only we had 5 hundred thousand Martin Shaws.
I love this. It makes so much sense to me to feel more moved by stories than people. I think there's something safer about the narrative, it seems deep into the unconscious and pulls something out.
So marvelous--thank you!!
Transforming conversation thank you.
I find this fascinating. Thank you. As one whose age is 70+, I'm grinning and nodding my head. Martin, what you say resonates with some of what I've been reading in Alexander John Shaia's book Radical Transformation. And, there's author Nancy Naylor Rue who is bringing forth her work which calls forth in me a desire to stay engaged, to mentor, and live into and share Wisdom. There is an undercurrent, a stirring, and I hope to see and live into its surfacing and enlivening.
Beautiful conversation!
Moby Dick is a book that I keep next to my tv chair, alongside The Peregrine-and know that when what’s on the screen dulls the senses, I can open it at random and always read something BRILLIANT
✨📖🙏🏼🌊🐋
Like Chris Hedges so wisely said, “We are all aboard The Pequod…”
⚓️🌊🐟
Wow. Thank you 🙏🙏
Oh man. Can we get Tom Waits ad Martin Shaw in the same room?
Last night I re-listened to Martin Shaw's wildly beautiful two-episode appearance on The Almanac of Ireland. I listen to it from time to time when I need to remember to come out of a trance state from work or hard times. I stumbled across this video during search to see if he's speaking soon and yes, I'm definitely disappointed to learn that his open, astounded, questioning view that makes room for the theory and power of storytelling and myth in every person's life (Christians included) has been closed. People's disappointment in him, the loss of friends, or whatever other pretended difficulty is cheered by the hosts' smiling nods-very shallow in the face of what must be a very painful loss of trust from indigenous communities-is annoyingly and predictably aligned with that old long-time trope of persecution that was truly a threat to early Christianity.
I used to think there was, and even tried hard to see or even create, a place in Christian spaces for the Old Ways. Bringing our bread to bless it together, no priest, no non-profit tax status, no fancy buildings, a celebration of poor people, a forgiveness for mistakes. There isn't and I don't believe there can be. Why? The religions that remain among us should have died away to make room for others or new versions of same, as all good old myths do, as Shaw himself has inspirationally said, to metamorphose into the spirituality that we need when we need it. Not an answer, but a path... relevant and alive. Perhaps these hosts don't realize it, and it would certainly be challenging for them to, but that's likely the Christianity Shaw hopes for and wants to build. I wish him luck. Every powerful religion that remains past its welcome has an element of it that is ideal for controlling people and their behavior, or in the worst of times, an acceptance of bad people (Trump was mentioned here) or inequity because some good thing awaits when we're dead. I may like that Jesus who flips tables and befriends whores and can't be governed, but I HAVE to acknowledge the lack of room for disobedient Christians or charitable views of nonbelievers, and that these views or inextricably tied to that faith at this point.
I think Martin Shaw will remain open to all, and any sort of new Christianity that arises from this surprising rebirth will need to also practice openness to all as well. Not all new Christians feel this way, but have faith in Martin. Give all of this time. This is not your parents’ Christianity, and everyone’s developing version is artwork in process. If it’s not universal, mind and and heart-opened as time goes on, it will not survive.,
@@jennysteves Wise words - thank you for that.
I would be much more interested to hear Shaw talk about these themes with someone like his late mentor Robert Bly. I feel like the majority mainstream western Christians don’t have the capacity to plumb the depths of their own faith. And these interviewers are just sad. They asked zero questions about Shaws relationship to the Eastern Orthodox church. All we got in this interview was a couple of fawning churchianity folks. Christianity needs heavier hitters than this talking about her deep and beautiful places.
Wow - judgmental much?
They did a nice job of piquing my interest in Shaw and his Eastern Orthodoxy.
@@danatowne5498 you judge what you know…
@@jimbruer1657 I’m glad you felt that way. He goes into some beautiful detail with other interviewers. I hope you find some good ones.
Well put.
Great interview! Martin Shaw certainly has a way with words. What is amazing is the topic of the "Gods" as mythology. Throughout the Old Testament, we read about the Eloheim's (plural), The "Gods" as members of God the Father, Yahweh's "Divine Council". I highly recommend checking out Dr. Michael Heiser- "The Unseen Realm". Eye-opening!
Beautiful conversation. 48:00 I am on the same quest.
Orthodox = right path
Become a Saint. Bingo, Martin. It's the living as "bumbling" Christ that is the highest witness. Words may come... (and I love the words)
Amen
I am envious of those with strong religious beliefs but I can’t feel a spiritual connection, how does someone believe and feel a connection?
This advice has no sway or pull on the younger secular crowd. People don't truat churches. I personally agree with you but as someone who interacts with secular people about God and Christ often. I feel as though religious people don't quite understand how truly Secular the world has become.
I do not mean any offense, but I am struck by the irony of discussions aimed at re-enchantment happening in front of giant industrial looking steel and glass! I understand the skyline behind being some of the goal... but it is not the first thing the eye grabs. Great discussion with Martin Shaw though!
Yeah, splash of green and some Celtic knot work wouldn't go amiss 😂
Loved this talk. I was born a Jew and lived through many faith traditions: atheism, lay Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age, even academia (MA in Comparatvie Religion). I even worked on building a Buddhist Stupa and then a Hindu temple. I came to Christ late in life, in my late 50s at a crisis moment - of course - but it was made intellectually digestible for me through apologetics.
[Off topic: One thing I see with UK broadcasts and hosts: they seem to have bought into all of the anti-Trump propaganda sold by the mainstream media world. Don't believe it;. The Trump phenomena is not what you hear all of the time, even by 'tried and true' careful Christians. Instead, go to Queens, NY, and discover that kind of exaggerating but down to earth personality and allow yourself to see how God uses the unlikely to do His bidding. BTW, I grew up in Brooklyn , NY and Long Island. ]
You are spot on. The Anti-Trump repeated narrative is very misguided and distorted. One's inner sense and intuition should be enough to discern.
We reached the collapse. We're back. In these last days, The Lord pours out his spirit. He has been moving!!
"When you are taking your cues from a culture that has amnesia or hostility toward you, you are absolutely lost." (with reference to the church today)
Living on a hill in a tent for 4 years ! Heck. How do you wash your clothes or toilet etc ?
Great episode, but perhaps a rather dismissive take on Peterson’s Jungian outlook. It’s worth remembering that in all Peterson’s talk of a ‘hierarchy of values’ there’s an Orthodox Christian, Jonathan Pageau, by his side echoing that stance, so arguably it's not that idea that’s the issue between Peterson and Christians it's how you know what the highest value is, and whether that’s dependant on Jesus literally being God, and literally having been resurrected. Is Christ ‘the myth made flesh’ or the amazingly inspiring individual that was then mythologised, and does it really matter which is true? I would now say that it doesn’t ‘stand or fall’ on it being literally true, it's whether you believe that your ‘connection to the Christ’ reveals the ultimate underlying pattern of reality i.e. love, that matters. Once that pattern is ‘revealed’ then it can act as ‘the highest value in a hierarchy of values’, however that ‘revelation’ came about.
This guy looks like the mythical Andrew Huberman haha.
Imagination and spectacular has nothing to do with orthodox prayer. Asking for signs and seeing lights...
Where does that leave the fairies? Do they need to wake up to Christianity also, or is it just a human thing? PS I have it on good authority that they're a bit cross about being made small and fluffy by said religion 😆
iki 23 ir nuo 35
Not the "jewish" people, the Hebrews (they're different).
Nobody knows what happens after we die. Nobody has ever come back to tell us about it. We live and love and it all gets taken away. Our loved ones get taken away. Nobody will remember you in a few generations. If you have had any children you have served your only purpose. To reproduce. Everything else is just decorating a room with fancy ornaments but in reality, underneath the wallpaper is blood, decay, suffering and mourning. None of this talk will solve or disprove this. Nice hat though.
Without Christ, yes.
Life After Death Orthodox book does have quite a bit to say! You say there is nothing to know and this is false and leads to nihilism. Isn’t interesting that all people live as if they will live forever. As if there is eternity! This alone should give you pause to search deeper.
@@joshuadanreesman you’re fooling yourself
@@everlastingphronema9700 I’ve searched. Everywhere. God is not here nor interested in our lives. Christ is the King of Myths and nothing more. Wonderful concept though which is why it is so enticing.
@@joshuadanreesman without Paul and then Rome you mean?
Please stop giggling, Justin…
@ 15:45 in ~ You lost me when you blasphemed Jesus Christ's atonement. May God The Father of ALL Creation have mercy upon you! You'll be needing it....
✝
'What has he found who has lost God? And what has he lost who has found God?' -Ibn Ata Allah Al-Iskandari
Amen