I want an exam requirement assigned to the ability to be flex tuned. You must score a 90 or above on the test , you pay $100 to take the test and Alex is the proctor 😂
I see this problem happen on platforms where people haven’t modified anything else and don’t understand concepts and different ways things are done. If you are well rounded and understand the basics this shouldn’t be difficult for people
Even on the GM vehicles they will not instantly adjust the learned E content, even though the sensor could be currently reading 85% E. It still slowly increases the value over time. It takes about 5-10 minutes of run time to fully switch from E10 to E85%. You can speed up the logic by going below a 1/4 tank and filling to full which also resets the knock threshold. That's two good reasons to drive until empty and fill all the way up. After watching this video I think some of your customers must have swapped their brains for a EECV's, drink bud light, and piss into their gas tanks calling it E98.
I wonder if it takes a while for drive ability maybe you would feel a momentary lack or boost of power or jolting if it just changed the stoke on the spot
@@5.0_marcus Gm actually has a learned trigger volume and a blend volume in the flex fuel logic tables. These can be altered. The value is expressed in liters of fuel. Stock values can be quite high (close to 0.3-0.4 liters) which is quite a lot of fuel to burn through before the values will show. You can actually log the sensor vs. the ecu calculated ethanol values and watch the difference. We normally set the values to around 0.05 liters so that the transition time matches the actual time it takes to burn through the gas left in the line between the ethanol sensor and the injectors.
I work with the public in a business where federal paperwork is required. They have to present specific documentation to be compliant with federal regulations. It is amazing how many people just don't comprehend very simple rules and instructions. So I totally get where you are coming from.
Damn! I wanted to put my 2019 5.0 pp1 on e85 flex fuel. Guess I can’t do that! Lol. I thought flex fuel meant that you could just put 91 or e85 whenever you wanted. I was wrong. Great video!!
Glad i learned all this on Honda stuff back in the day. Put it his way when i was on a boosted setup in my honda that car was on like 23 degrees of timing at 9 psi. if i wasnt on full e85 or on good e85 it would have blown up. So unless your flex sensor pulls timing it could blow stuff up really fast.
I had the issue you described about vacuum leaks/unmetered air. I just went back to the stock tune, checked the fuel trims, confirm there’s an issue, fix that vacuum leak, go back to e85. I mainly use the flex tune to put a tank of 93 in every couple months.
Damn welp that sucks I was hoping to get a flex tune with my supercharger. Right now I have a lund flex tune on my fbo Mustang and it’s very convenient.
I love my flex tune!!! I have a 2016 gt350 & purchased a flex tune from Lund back in 2018 maybe? The car had around 20,000 miles. Now has 87k miles and has lived mostly on e85! I dynoed it last summer & the thing made 498whp! Absolutely love the flex! Bring back the flextune!! My son has a 2022 GT & just got a lund tune! He is jelly of my flex!! Lol
@@midnight347 anywhere in miami or more like, anywhere close to the turnpike, there is no issue being on a e85 tune. However, take a roadtrip down to key west or naples and that when the flextune is a real jem! No switching tunes, no running the fuel to zero, etc.
just so you know, that isn’t a Coyote only thing and GM did away with the actual flexfuel content sensor after gen3. Gen 4 and later GM flexfuel vehicles use similar logic and have similar problems unless they’ve been modified to run a content sensor. A big issue on the gen4 GM vehicles is the ecu will “hang” on a certain “perceived” percentage and cause fuel economy and drivability issues. I actually flatlined my flexfuel stoich table in my 07 Avalanche for this reason. It kept saying I was at 30% ethanol all the time and it was getting horrible gas milage and black smoking from being rich.
Must say, didn’t really think of the issue with o2s changing fuel trim on a assumption of having ethanol in the tank when it was a unmetered air leak. Definitely makes sense tho.
I've meet a few guys and they said they run strictly E85 and I asked them why not do the flex fuel. They said the place who did their cars didn't do flex fuel tunes anymore but nobody ever explained why. Listening to your explanation and I thought that's was what people were supposed to do. Run through car till empty and then put E85 in it. I was running across people before saying you could mix pumped gas and E85.
I believe PCMTEC is working on releasing a CAN Bus flex fuel system for the coyote using a actual flex sensor which would solve this issue. Because at the end of the day if you have an actual flex sensor running at the fuel lines then you could tune it to run true flex no?
Now I don’t know if I want to bother with e85. It is only sold on the other side of town. I’ll burn a half tank just getting home. I was hoping to have fun on the weekend then just put pump 91 in on on Monday and use flex till next fill up. We don’t have 93 here and only two e85 stations in town
I always used it as a stopgap to get me by till I could fully saturate the fuel system and run the regular E85 file 😂 never dreamed of running it on the flex file
I followed every step of the way. Makes sense that GM is doing things the logical way. I couldn't help wondering why Ford wouldn't copy GM. Then the answer came to me. It's cause Ford's to busy huffing that "Hotdog Water". 😂😂
I’m a happy customer of Lund with a fully converted Infiniti Q50 700+hp and spent THOUSANDS On injectors . Love the pos it’s rotting in my garage BUT my 2020 pp1 is tuned on a dedicated e85 and I can say I did it the right way 😂 and it was so simple
1:60 lmao damn that's crazy. I remember my tuner explaining all this to me years ago and I was like ok, makes complete freaking sense. Maybe you guys should've created a generic email that explains EXACTLY what you just said and send that to them when they purchase a flex or E85 tune, hell you could probably do a voice memo and sent it to them so they can understand it more 😂
A lot of GM vehicles use the same logic but using the narrow bands and fuel trims. They just called it virtual flex fuel. Works ok on stock vehicles but is more of a pain in the ass than it is worth when tuning for modifications.
I wonder why GM trucks and Ford coyote trucks get a flex tune from the factory…. Even my Nissan Titan can run on E85 from the factory but the Mustang, and corvette / Camaro etc can’t get a flex tune from the factory. GM 5.3 trucks gain something like 30 crank HP just by running E85. Would be nice to pick up a similar number in a Mustang or Corvette.
Really sucks for those of us who understand. Only reason I haven't gone full e85 yet is because there's only 1 station anywhere near me with it. Oh well.
This was a great video... I am just starting to learn and get into wanting my GT turned up.. I don't know shit!! But I did know without a fuel rail sensor you needed to run your car out completely before switching over... SMH.. If they say empty your car first, empty your car first!!
I mean I didn’t know this. I was curious on how the car knew what fuel it had. And I’m not even tuned yet. But was looking to learn about it before I decided to get a tune. Thx for the info
This makes some sense to me in why my GT350 didn’t pick up any mph at the track with just E85, I just started it right before basically going to the line.. and it never learned how much E85 was in it? I run E85R.
That’s one reason on the ST platform it’s highly recommended to install an ethanol content sensor so when your mixing for e50 it’s idiot proof. Doesn’t talk to the PCM but at lest you know your E content is within spec.
Late to this but you are correct, E is blended with raw unleaded gas with no anti-knock additive, its ~85 octane or so. so yes its basically ethanol blended with diarrhea..or "hot dog water" lol. Best blend of E85 would be to get E98 and cut it with 93 down to E98 or E70, or whatever preferred blend people want to run. Im surprised people didnt understand how flex is learned in the Gen 3 pcm and Wideband O2... but then again ive had flex via dedicated sensor in 2003 Evo, virtual flex and later dedicated sensor flex in 2013 PPV. So been on both sides of the fence when it comes to recognizing and understanding the differences with both. Didnt like the virtual flex in the PPV but that might be GM E38 pcm capability in a performance application instead of how it was intended, and not necessarily the concept of virtual flex itself.
I kinda figured this. in my nguauge I found reading that slowly would read alcohol strategy took a couple minutes to read and lock it . Never pushed it till it locked it
Idk anything about this stuff but to me it just seems common sense that you’d have a 93 tune and an e85 tune but have flex fuel tune as a convenient way to switch back and forth without draining the tank lol
Boosted applications the knock tolerance is about the same . Tested verified. Done it. If you're on 8 psi it might be fine. Coyotes are 11:1 and 12:1 we don't play around with 50% hot dog water
I put the ethanol sensor on my 6.2L in my naturally aspirated escalade because I was annoyed that they were inferring alcohol content from the o2 sensors lol
TLDR: Lund stop flex maps due to owner stupidity. 😩 Cool note. GM uses inline flex kits similar to what Cobb does with fa20dits and Ford uses the o2s as a sniffer to correct stoic tables for an unlearned fuel mixture 🤔
Flex tuning went away shortly before I was able to ask for a flex tune and was very disappointed I couldn't get one... and its because of morons who don't let their PCM adjust to the fuel mixture. Even on a stock tune and you go from 87 to 93, you aren't going to get better performance right away. It. has. to. adjust. We lost a good thing because of idiots.
Yeah that sucks. First the Ngauge went away now this. So glad I was able to get a Ngauge and flex tune when I did. I don't have to worry about my wife filling up if she uses my car. She can use the Ethanol pump or the 91 octane pump and she knows it. I don't have to worry about her picking the wrong one.
Both of my daily drivers run gm flex fuel sensors, my 04 gmc Yukon and my k swapped civic. The civic I tuned myself, and when switching from 93 to ethanol it takes 5-10 minutes of driving for the fuel to mix and the ethanol sensor to get an accurate idea of the ethanol content. I’ve ran mixes of 93 all the way up to full e85 and dead consistent afr the whole way. I really don’t get why ford would try to use the o2 sensor as an ethanol content sensor.
I would be curious to know this as well. From my understanding based off of the video though, something like that doesn't exist as the coyote PCM is programmed to read it off of the O2 sensors, not through a 3rd party sensor
The pcm firmware of factory coyote ECU's is incapable of properly reading from a flex fuel sensor and adjusting Accordingly without external equipment. If you want this capability you're stuck with either going for an add on system like pcm tech has, or going to an aftermarket standalone ECU.
It is amazing how peeps don’t get it. I don’t blame you. Lol. Here in AZ, most “E85” is only actually E54-ish. I only have one station with 85% ethanol. The rest…..? 50-60% So I have my 91 tune, an E54 and E85. I never mess with flex or mixing. Just dedicated tunes.
I feel your pain. I owned a dyno and shut the shop down due to BS like this. Then they would flame you on the internet not mentioning how much of an idiot they were. I never wrote flex tunes due to this reason. I knew it would end up being an issue.
Saw this issue with people at the track a lot. Not understanding why they didn’t drop time. Even those of us who understood what you have to do with the fuel mix on a street car was/is difficult going to the track for test/tune or doing hero runs. Most tracks are not around the corner from you. They are hours away. So, trying to decide between running full e85 all the way there (worse mpgs and driveability), stop halfway and switch or try to get to track on 0 miles to go.
Usually most people who care about the times will deal with the mpgs and drivability of their car being in “race mode” on the drive to the track. This is a problem for people who feel the need to push everything to the last minute to not sacrifice having to drive a little uncomfortably. It shouldn’t be so confusing and there shouldn’t be so many decisions in this process. You might be one of the reason flex is going away
@@fernandop937people way overthink stuff. If the track is a drive away that gives it plenty of time to learn the e85 tune that is a good thing. Omg cry me a river the mpg is less. Do you wanna go faser or not? I mean not you but to anyone making this an issue.
I miss these informational videos from you. I do not understand how yall would deal with these people on a daily basis though. Unfortunately if i change setups i wont have my flex tune for road trips now. 😢
Last I heard, Lund was working with PCMtech to get a sensor-based system out. I've been waiting for this for a while, I'm just assuming now they're gearing up to get that out.
Hot dog water!!!!😂 omg, that brings me back to my childhood days, I can't believe my older brother actually still boils dogs to this day, makes me sick just thinking of that
Alex, how does ford get around the air leak issue with the factory f150 flex fuel software? Even if they’re not making more power on E it would seem they would still go very rich and not throw a CEL if an air leak developed while running 87.
so let me get this straight. I just bought a s550 with the flex tune and all you have to do is run 93 to almost empty, pump e85 full and let it run for 10 mins. then drive for about 30/40 miles and your all set? I'm glad I watch this video because the guy I bought the car from told me just add it and go. Those, If I have them correct are some of the easiest directions to follow.
I bought a dedicated E30 tune for my ecoboost, bought three 5 Gal race jugs and beaker test kit, doing math and calculations, etc, never knowing exactly what the ethanol content was, couldn’t fill up my tank, etc etc…. Not only was it super annoying and stressed me out wondering if my shit was gonna blow up. I think I did that for a month before I just went back to my 93 tune lol
I've got a question, typically my fuel rails sit at 130°f or higher, does that indicate a problem? Ice read into how the sensor operates and trying to determine how smooth the fuel pressure fluctuation should be. At idle my pressure desired is 400 and actual is 1000 psi. Upon acceleration there are fluctuations in actual pressure but it varies by about 20 psi. Is this normal?
There is a alcohol percentage gauge on the Ngauge. While using the flex tune you can find it. Its not dead nuts precise but its close enough when using the flex tune. Normally takes around 15 min for it to see over 60% and that's where I start to feel the extra torque and power.
Good morning my boy calling out of San Diego California subscriber the following you a long time going to make the switch buddy from hemi to maybe a second GEN mustang I’ll here there’s only 91 and mediocre E 85 which I have on my charger once I get my GEN two mustang I always wanted to ask this question what’s better for the engine long lasting and longevity the 85 tune or should I get a 91 tune once I put a couple mods on it
Could I get one if I asked for one, it’s more of a convenience thing for me when daily driving. I’m not trying to go to “Mexico” on a flex tune and be upset if my car doesn’t pull its hardest
@@midnight347 I just figured that the tunes have already been created and that nothing is really wrong with it, just customer comprehension. It’s nice driving more than 200 miles away without range anxiety or having to constantly reflash your car
or get a return line and put a 30$ gm eth sensor on it and run it to a guage... my return line mixed the fuel at idle and i know if my mix is the same thanks to my ethonal sensor readout... then again some people cant change there own oil so its a lot to ask from the unskilled owners out there...
We also need a guage inside the car that will actually tell you the amount of ethanol thats in the pump E85. I mean damn the Mitsubishi Evo guys have it why cant we
E-85 "test tube" testers are not exactly accurate either. E-85 is a mixture of... Ethanol, Gasoline and HYDROCARBONS. Many of times pump E-85 is actually 70% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline, and 15% hydrocarbon products such as additives, stabalizers, anti-foaming agents. Alex, if you are curious once you install your flex fuel sensor in your vette compare ethanol tests from pump E-85 in a test tube and versus your vettes ethanol sensor. I noticed that E85 in the "test tube" would read E85 but the sensor would only pick up E-70-75. Hopefully you have better pump E-85 than I do locally.
So it is very similar to the adaptive octane logic? Also, what PID would you look at to evaluate the quality of the fuel at a particular fuel station? We don't have a shell where i'm at
It's different in that you have a dedicated sensor to detect knock and it's constantly getting data and adding/taking away timing depending on fuel quality/load. Flex logic is inferred like Alex explained by the O2 sensor and interpolated to what stoic fuel it thinks you have. The best way I can think of without going into the tune and finding tables would log a WOT pull and see how much timing is added/taken away. Not all fuel from the same station is going to test the same day to day. Shell/Sunoco/Chevron are the safest bets on fuel quality.
@@rileyneufeld7001I usually use shell or Sunoco. I run 93 and boostane in my 07 gt500 with a gen3r but although the boostane helps gaurd against "poorer fuel quality" I still want the best quality 93 I can get.
Alex is out here sniffing through the whole video like he was a Ford O2 sensor. Hope you feel better brother. I just commented for the video engagement
Part of selling services means explaining it properly to the customer so they know what they are buying. I haven’t met someone with this confusion maybe it’s a mustang thing lol
I’m whipped on my 10R80 stang here in Aus. Only thing stopping me from going e85 is that my tuner advocates flex tunes. Regardless of where the sensor is located my worry is “what happens if the sensor malfunctions”? I’ll only go e85 if I can have a designated e85 tune and a designated 93 tune. People laugh at me me because I’ve over built the car (drive shafts half shafts coolers chillers wavectrack diff, billet opg and cs etc) and only putting out 660whp but I just don’t want it to break when I roll race every 6 weeks at a designated track lol
Like he is explaining that's not how it works if you have a Coyote. The O2 sensors basically read rich or lean and adjust based on that. Really dangerous to have a flex tune and be boosted. I would have a dedicated 93 octane tune or E85 tune if I were boosted. No flex tune. Hopefully you have a full on fuel system like a Fore system as well. The stock fuel system can't handle 650RWHP on E85.
@@ShizawnSanders Thank you for your feedback. I have a 900hp fuel module and 1000cc injectors. My tuner said I’ll need a 1500hp fuel module and like 1300 or 1500cc injectors if I want to go e85. Yes if I do go e85 I’ll want separate tunes.
@@CoyoteAUS badass man. Hopefully I can afford a Whipple 3.0l and Fore fuel system for E85 one day on my 10R80 gen 3 Coyote. I got LT headers, suspension, wheels/tires ect in anticipation for a Supercharger system. Just got to come up with roughly $10k to get blown. Lol. Easier said than done for me. Wife would have a melt down. Lol.
Roll racing ain't gonna break half shafts anyways but launching hard on drag radials might lol. Opg aren't needed unless you're bouncing off the limiter boosted on purpose...it's just not needed. You have an auto you shouldn't ever be bouncing off the limiter lol.
Question. I want to run 91 most of the time, and then on a few occasions I would like to run e85. Then I would like to go from e85 back to 91. Would I be able to do this with a flex fuel tune? From my understanding, when I switch from 91 to e85 I would have to flash the flex fuel tune. Then once the e85 is learned after a day or two, I would have to switch to the e85r tune. Is this correct? And if I wanted to switch from e85 back to 91, would i flash the flex fuel tune, wait a little bit then switch it over to the 91 tune ? SOMEONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT
@@Prestiged_peckas long as you don't run it completely dry its fine. Average bone heads that are clueless tbe 1/8th tank rule would be good for them lol
I want an exam requirement assigned to the ability to be flex tuned. You must score a 90 or above on the test , you pay $100 to take the test and Alex is the proctor 😂
😂 exactly!
Dude I was thinking something similar to this!!!!
Only watched like 10 of your videos and im hooked...dude seems like a genius who talks to us with common sense...i wish i had him tune my car
So is my file like rare now ?
I see this problem happen on platforms where people haven’t modified anything else and don’t understand concepts and different ways things are done. If you are well rounded and understand the basics this shouldn’t be difficult for people
Even on the GM vehicles they will not instantly adjust the learned E content, even though the sensor could be currently reading 85% E. It still slowly increases the value over time. It takes about 5-10 minutes of run time to fully switch from E10 to E85%. You can speed up the logic by going below a 1/4 tank and filling to full which also resets the knock threshold. That's two good reasons to drive until empty and fill all the way up. After watching this video I think some of your customers must have swapped their brains for a EECV's, drink bud light, and piss into their gas tanks calling it E98.
Yeah it still takes a few minutes to read...
I wonder if it takes a while for drive ability maybe you would feel a momentary lack or boost of power or jolting if it just changed the stoke on the spot
@5.0_marcus no it just takes time for it to learn it and for the fuel to run through the fuel lines etc.
@midnight347 he's saying after it learns the content for the pcm to react and on gm vehicles
@@5.0_marcus Gm actually has a learned trigger volume and a blend volume in the flex fuel logic tables. These can be altered. The value is expressed in liters of fuel. Stock values can be quite high (close to 0.3-0.4 liters) which is quite a lot of fuel to burn through before the values will show. You can actually log the sensor vs. the ecu calculated ethanol values and watch the difference. We normally set the values to around 0.05 liters so that the transition time matches the actual time it takes to burn through the gas left in the line between the ethanol sensor and the injectors.
I work with the public in a business where federal paperwork is required. They have to present specific documentation to be compliant with federal regulations. It is amazing how many people just don't comprehend very simple rules and instructions. So I totally get where you are coming from.
Glad I got my flex tune. Works great. I run 93 couple times a year then E85. Nothing else. Always run it almost empty. No issues 🤷♂️
Lund Racing should only give flex fuel tune to YDBT members 😂
Hell yeah
I've seen the retarded questions some of you ask. That ain't gonna work either.
Ydbt members who Alex can verify know what they’re talking about
Damn!
I wanted to put my 2019 5.0 pp1 on e85 flex fuel. Guess I can’t do that! Lol. I thought flex fuel meant that you could just put 91 or e85 whenever you wanted. I was wrong.
Great video!!
So how do I go e85 on my 2020 gt
Glad i learned all this on Honda stuff back in the day. Put it his way when i was on a boosted setup in my honda that car was on like 23 degrees of timing at 9 psi. if i wasnt on full e85 or on good e85 it would have blown up. So unless your flex sensor pulls timing it could blow stuff up really fast.
I had the issue you described about vacuum leaks/unmetered air. I just went back to the stock tune, checked the fuel trims, confirm there’s an issue, fix that vacuum leak, go back to e85.
I mainly use the flex tune to put a tank of 93 in every couple months.
Damn welp that sucks I was hoping to get a flex tune with my supercharger. Right now I have a lund flex tune on my fbo Mustang and it’s very convenient.
Imagine leaving this comment on this video. The irony
@@OnlyRearsI know, I’m just trolling 😂
They never did flex on any boosted cars anyways.
@@prsguitar6910 ahh ok I wasn’t sure, but I wasn’t being serious
You were totally serious
I love my flex tune!!! I have a 2016 gt350 & purchased a flex tune from Lund back in 2018 maybe? The car had around 20,000 miles. Now has 87k miles and has lived mostly on e85! I dynoed it last summer & the thing made 498whp! Absolutely love the flex!
Bring back the flextune!! My son has a 2022 GT & just got a lund tune! He is jelly of my flex!! Lol
Just get an e85 tune what's the big deal? Ecsp if you plan on being on e most of the time the flex stuff doesn't even matter that much
@@midnight347 anywhere in miami or more like, anywhere close to the turnpike, there is no issue being on a e85 tune. However, take a roadtrip down to key west or naples and that when the flextune is a real jem! No switching tunes, no running the fuel to zero, etc.
just so you know, that isn’t a Coyote only thing and GM did away with the actual flexfuel content sensor after gen3. Gen 4 and later GM flexfuel vehicles use similar logic and have similar problems unless they’ve been modified to run a content sensor. A big issue on the gen4 GM vehicles is the ecu will “hang” on a certain “perceived” percentage and cause fuel economy and drivability issues. I actually flatlined my flexfuel stoich table in my 07 Avalanche for this reason. It kept saying I was at 30% ethanol all the time and it was getting horrible gas milage and black smoking from being rich.
Are you telling me all that hot dog water I've been saving is no good?
Must say, didn’t really think of the issue with o2s changing fuel trim on a assumption of having ethanol in the tank when it was a unmetered air leak. Definitely makes sense tho.
You need to draw it with edible crayons.
I've meet a few guys and they said they run strictly E85 and I asked them why not do the flex fuel. They said the place who did their cars didn't do flex fuel tunes anymore but nobody ever explained why. Listening to your explanation and I thought that's was what people were supposed to do. Run through car till empty and then put E85 in it. I was running across people before saying you could mix pumped gas and E85.
I believe PCMTEC is working on releasing a CAN Bus flex fuel system for the coyote using a actual flex sensor which would solve this issue. Because at the end of the day if you have an actual flex sensor running at the fuel lines then you could tune it to run true flex no?
Now I don’t know if I want to bother with e85. It is only sold on the other side of town. I’ll burn a half tank just getting home. I was hoping to have fun on the weekend then just put pump 91 in on on Monday and use flex till next fill up. We don’t have 93 here and only two e85 stations in town
I always used it as a stopgap to get me by till I could fully saturate the fuel system and run the regular E85 file 😂 never dreamed of running it on the flex file
I followed every step of the way. Makes sense that GM is doing things the logical way. I couldn't help wondering why Ford wouldn't copy GM. Then the answer came to me. It's cause Ford's to busy huffing that "Hotdog Water". 😂😂
I’m a happy customer of Lund with a fully converted Infiniti Q50 700+hp and spent THOUSANDS On injectors . Love the pos it’s rotting in my garage BUT my 2020 pp1 is tuned on a dedicated e85 and I can say I did it the right way 😂 and it was so simple
Pretty well explained explanation. Learned something new definitely neat to know 👍🏼
1:60 lmao damn that's crazy. I remember my tuner explaining all this to me years ago and I was like ok, makes complete freaking sense. Maybe you guys should've created a generic email that explains EXACTLY what you just said and send that to them when they purchase a flex or E85 tune, hell you could probably do a voice memo and sent it to them so they can understand it more 😂
A lot of GM vehicles use the same logic but using the narrow bands and fuel trims. They just called it virtual flex fuel. Works ok on stock vehicles but is more of a pain in the ass than it is worth when tuning for modifications.
Great video as always 💪🏽
I wonder why GM trucks and Ford coyote trucks get a flex tune from the factory…. Even my Nissan Titan can run on E85 from the factory but the Mustang, and corvette / Camaro etc can’t get a flex tune from the factory.
GM 5.3 trucks gain something like 30 crank HP just by running E85. Would be nice to pick up a similar number in a Mustang or Corvette.
I agree
Because of stupid epa laws
@@TheJMan1K don’t cars burn cleaner with E85 though?
Dem there corn squeezins had the good ol boys cornfused🤔
E85 isnt readily available near me. When you said E50 i assumed it was 93 and E85 mixed i had no idea you could actually get E50 from the pump.
Really sucks for those of us who understand. Only reason I haven't gone full e85 yet is because there's only 1 station anywhere near me with it. Oh well.
I had to explain this to a friend a while back about switching. I was like all they are doing is helping you switch fuels... not a place to stay
This was a great video... I am just starting to learn and get into wanting my GT turned up.. I don't know shit!! But I did know without a fuel rail sensor you needed to run your car out completely before switching over... SMH.. If they say empty your car first, empty your car first!!
I'll be honest, I would have uploaded the flex tune and left it alone. Just seems so convenient if you pump "E85" but get 70%
Yea I’ve ran just on flex before but just normal driving and it seems to do just fine.
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I mean I didn’t know this. I was curious on how the car knew what fuel it had. And I’m not even tuned yet. But was looking to learn about it before I decided to get a tune. Thx for the info
The other 15 percent in E85 is 85 octane gasoline. They also mix 10 percent ethanol with the same 85 octane to make 87 octane (regular).
This makes some sense to me in why my GT350 didn’t pick up any mph at the track with just E85, I just started it right before basically going to the line.. and it never learned how much E85 was in it? I run E85R.
That’s one reason on the ST platform it’s highly recommended to install an ethanol content sensor so when your mixing for e50 it’s idiot proof. Doesn’t talk to the PCM but at lest you know your E content is within spec.
Cool. But the car is still slow.
Late to this but you are correct, E is blended with raw unleaded gas with no anti-knock additive, its ~85 octane or so. so yes its basically ethanol blended with diarrhea..or "hot dog water" lol.
Best blend of E85 would be to get E98 and cut it with 93 down to E98 or E70, or whatever preferred blend people want to run.
Im surprised people didnt understand how flex is learned in the Gen 3 pcm and Wideband O2... but then again ive had flex via dedicated sensor in 2003 Evo, virtual flex and later dedicated sensor flex in 2013 PPV. So been on both sides of the fence when it comes to recognizing and understanding the differences with both. Didnt like the virtual flex in the PPV but that might be GM E38 pcm capability in a performance application instead of how it was intended, and not necessarily the concept of virtual flex itself.
I kinda figured this. in my nguauge I found reading that slowly would read alcohol strategy took a couple minutes to read and lock it . Never pushed it till it locked it
Idk anything about this stuff but to me it just seems common sense that you’d have a 93 tune and an e85 tune but have flex fuel tune as a convenient way to switch back and forth without draining the tank lol
They need to come up with a reflex box like in the bmw world to make flex fuel logical.
Everything you said was on point..Most cases e50 would outshine 93oct, unless its mixed with hotdog water!
Boosted applications the knock tolerance is about the same . Tested verified. Done it.
If you're on 8 psi it might be fine.
Coyotes are 11:1 and 12:1 we don't play around with 50% hot dog water
I put the ethanol sensor on my 6.2L in my naturally aspirated escalade because I was annoyed that they were inferring alcohol content from the o2 sensors lol
The rule of thumb that i was taught was: Don't expect any change from E85 in a Flex fuel until at least three full tanks.
TLDR: Lund stop flex maps due to owner stupidity. 😩
Cool note. GM uses inline flex kits similar to what Cobb does with fa20dits and Ford uses the o2s as a sniffer to correct stoic tables for an unlearned fuel mixture 🤔
Flex tuning went away shortly before I was able to ask for a flex tune and was very disappointed I couldn't get one... and its because of morons who don't let their PCM adjust to the fuel mixture. Even on a stock tune and you go from 87 to 93, you aren't going to get better performance right away. It. has. to. adjust. We lost a good thing because of idiots.
Yeah that sucks. First the Ngauge went away now this. So glad I was able to get a Ngauge and flex tune when I did. I don't have to worry about my wife filling up if she uses my car. She can use the Ethanol pump or the 91 octane pump and she knows it. I don't have to worry about her picking the wrong one.
Both of my daily drivers run gm flex fuel sensors, my 04 gmc Yukon and my k swapped civic. The civic I tuned myself, and when switching from 93 to ethanol it takes 5-10 minutes of driving for the fuel to mix and the ethanol sensor to get an accurate idea of the ethanol content. I’ve ran mixes of 93 all the way up to full e85 and dead consistent afr the whole way. I really don’t get why ford would try to use the o2 sensor as an ethanol content sensor.
Is there a sampling sensor like the GM unit that can be installed on a coyote? If it exists, has Lund used that system for flex tuning already?
I would be curious to know this as well. From my understanding based off of the video though, something like that doesn't exist as the coyote PCM is programmed to read it off of the O2 sensors, not through a 3rd party sensor
The pcm firmware of factory coyote ECU's is incapable of properly reading from a flex fuel sensor and adjusting Accordingly without external equipment.
If you want this capability you're stuck with either going for an add on system like pcm tech has, or going to an aftermarket standalone ECU.
PCMTEC has a canbus flex fuel option for coyotes. They actually list Lund as a recommend tuner.
ruclips.net/video/HbXiPyy5RtA/видео.htmlsi=h8sBQj8QmB86Qv35
@@kevinbaranowski9593 I've never heard of this. I will revise my statement accordingly
Laughs in P59 controller with 3 bar, flex and 4l80 control.
The hot dog water got the sub
It is amazing how peeps don’t get it. I don’t blame you. Lol.
Here in AZ, most “E85” is only actually E54-ish. I only have one station with 85% ethanol. The rest…..? 50-60% So I have my 91 tune, an E54 and E85. I never mess with flex or mixing. Just dedicated tunes.
I just got 68% ethanol out near Peoria, AZ today. 76 station on olive.
@@ChurchAutoTest WTF?? That is usually 85+. I’ll make sure to bring the tester next time, so I know what tune to load.
Need to make a flash card for the cluster & behind the fuel door
I just got my dsx flex fuel sensor for my Chevy SS . Gonna need that YDBT tune for old times sakes 🫡
Very well explained! Nice job!
Very important. BTEX gasoline is hotdog water.
I feel your pain. I owned a dyno and shut the shop down due to BS like this. Then they would flame you on the internet not mentioning how much of an idiot they were. I never wrote flex tunes due to this reason. I knew it would end up being an issue.
Saw this issue with people at the track a lot. Not understanding why they didn’t drop time. Even those of us who understood what you have to do with the fuel mix on a street car was/is difficult going to the track for test/tune or doing hero runs. Most tracks are not around the corner from you. They are hours away. So, trying to decide between running full e85 all the way there (worse mpgs and driveability), stop halfway and switch or try to get to track on 0 miles to go.
Usually most people who care about the times will deal with the mpgs and drivability of their car being in “race mode” on the drive to the track. This is a problem for people who feel the need to push everything to the last minute to not sacrifice having to drive a little uncomfortably. It shouldn’t be so confusing and there shouldn’t be so many decisions in this process. You might be one of the reason flex is going away
@@fernandop937this lol
@@fernandop937people way overthink stuff. If the track is a drive away that gives it plenty of time to learn the e85 tune that is a good thing. Omg cry me a river the mpg is less. Do you wanna go faser or not? I mean not you but to anyone making this an issue.
I miss these informational videos from you. I do not understand how yall would deal with these people on a daily basis though. Unfortunately if i change setups i wont have my flex tune for road trips now. 😢
Last I heard, Lund was working with PCMtech to get a sensor-based system out. I've been waiting for this for a while, I'm just assuming now they're gearing up to get that out.
It’s sooo easy on my Zl1, I can switch from 93 to E85 or a mixture of both and it adjusts itself.
So you added the flex fuel sensor and had someone tune for it?
@@ShizawnSanders Yes there’s a lot of Flex kits out there. I bought DSX Tuning’s kit , installed myself and tuner tuned it .
@@ShizawnSandersmost likely both ,I’m tuned for both 93 and E85 with the flex fuel sensor.
I love my flex tune to transition on my 19, thank god I’ve been a Lund customer for years lol
Hot dog water!!!!😂 omg, that brings me back to my childhood days, I can't believe my older brother actually still boils dogs to this day, makes me sick just thinking of that
Damn they ruined it for the rest of us smh , good video thanks bro
BECAUSE PEOPLE DONT UNDERSTAND FLEX
Alex, how does ford get around the air leak issue with the factory f150 flex fuel software? Even if they’re not making more power on E it would seem they would still go very rich and not throw a CEL if an air leak developed while running 87.
so let me get this straight. I just bought a s550 with the flex tune and all you have to do is run 93 to almost empty, pump e85 full and let it run for 10 mins. then drive for about 30/40 miles and your all set? I'm glad I watch this video because the guy I bought the car from told me just add it and go. Those, If I have them correct are some of the easiest directions to follow.
PCMTEC User Flex & CANBus Flex fuel to the rescue!
Meh.
I bought a dedicated E30 tune for my ecoboost, bought three 5 Gal race jugs and beaker test kit, doing math and calculations, etc, never knowing exactly what the ethanol content was, couldn’t fill up my tank, etc etc…. Not only was it super annoying and stressed me out wondering if my shit was gonna blow up. I think I did that for a month before I just went back to my 93 tune lol
I've got a question, typically my fuel rails sit at 130°f or higher, does that indicate a problem? Ice read into how the sensor operates and trying to determine how smooth the fuel pressure fluctuation should be. At idle my pressure desired is 400 and actual is 1000 psi. Upon acceleration there are fluctuations in actual pressure but it varies by about 20 psi. Is this normal?
I was wondering because I never saw the sensor nor a "percentage of ethanol" meter in the gauges. Yeah glad you went away with that.
There is a alcohol percentage gauge on the Ngauge. While using the flex tune you can find it. Its not dead nuts precise but its close enough when using the flex tune. Normally takes around 15 min for it to see over 60% and that's where I start to feel the extra torque and power.
What do you think about the plug in flex fuel kits in the market?
Have you seen the supposed flex fuel sensors for coyote mustangs?
Good morning my boy calling out of San Diego California subscriber the following you a long time going to make the switch buddy from hemi to maybe a second GEN mustang I’ll here there’s only 91 and mediocre E 85 which I have on my charger once I get my GEN two mustang I always wanted to ask this question what’s better for the engine long lasting and longevity the 85 tune or should I get a 91 tune once I put a couple mods on it
Could I get one if I asked for one, it’s more of a convenience thing for me when daily driving. I’m not trying to go to “Mexico” on a flex tune and be upset if my car doesn’t pull its hardest
They did away with em. Just got an e85 tune if you wanna run it. If you can't run it all the time don't run it at all or change tuners.
@@midnight347 I just figured that the tunes have already been created and that nothing is really wrong with it, just customer comprehension. It’s nice driving more than 200 miles away without range anxiety or having to constantly reflash your car
Can Ford use the in line sensor? I really want flex fuel because of availability.
Lmao I just explained this to my buddy that has a flex fuel tune and he said ohh that's how it works 😂
I was looking back on some of your videos when you install that ESS you do injectors to or can you get away without doing then
or get a return line and put a 30$ gm eth sensor on it and run it to a guage... my return line mixed the fuel at idle and i know if my mix is the same thanks to my ethonal sensor readout... then again some people cant change there own oil so its a lot to ask from the unskilled owners out there...
We also need a guage inside the car that will actually tell you the amount of ethanol thats in the pump E85. I mean damn the Mitsubishi Evo guys have it why cant we
E-85 "test tube" testers are not exactly accurate either. E-85 is a mixture of... Ethanol, Gasoline and HYDROCARBONS. Many of times pump E-85 is actually 70% Ethanol, 15% Gasoline, and 15% hydrocarbon products such as additives, stabalizers, anti-foaming agents.
Alex, if you are curious once you install your flex fuel sensor in your vette compare ethanol tests from pump E-85 in a test tube and versus your vettes ethanol sensor. I noticed that E85 in the "test tube" would read E85 but the sensor would only pick up E-70-75. Hopefully you have better pump E-85 than I do locally.
Great content
So it is very similar to the adaptive octane logic? Also, what PID would you look at to evaluate the quality of the fuel at a particular fuel station? We don't have a shell where i'm at
It's different in that you have a dedicated sensor to detect knock and it's constantly getting data and adding/taking away timing depending on fuel quality/load. Flex logic is inferred like Alex explained by the O2 sensor and interpolated to what stoic fuel it thinks you have. The best way I can think of without going into the tune and finding tables would log a WOT pull and see how much timing is added/taken away. Not all fuel from the same station is going to test the same day to day. Shell/Sunoco/Chevron are the safest bets on fuel quality.
Look at fuel trims compared to a tank of known good e85
@@rileyneufeld7001I usually use shell or Sunoco. I run 93 and boostane in my 07 gt500 with a gen3r but although the boostane helps gaurd against "poorer fuel quality" I still want the best quality 93 I can get.
I only use my flex tune in an emergency when I run out of e85 availability and I’m just trying to get from point A to point B.
So if you use a flex fuel sensor like the one shown for GM on the Coyote, will Lund do a Flex tune?
Basically your saying everybody is dumb now. Agreed. I did 50 hours of research before I went e85. If it’s not oem pay attention!
Alex is out here sniffing through the whole video like he was a Ford O2 sensor. Hope you feel better brother. I just commented for the video engagement
Room temperature IQ people don't need to own these cars.
Part of selling services means explaining it properly to the customer so they know what they are buying. I haven’t met someone with this confusion maybe it’s a mustang thing lol
You say don’t worry about afr but everything is measure in lambda and converted to whatever fuel scale you want.
where is it possible to buy e50 from a pump?
still don't get how any of this was hard to understand or just think "yah Lund knows their shit ill just do what they say".
Alex, when filling up and swapping fuel/tunes, is it reasonable to let the car hit 1/8 tank then fill up with the different gas and swap tune?
No
I’m whipped on my 10R80 stang here in Aus. Only thing stopping me from going e85 is that my tuner advocates flex tunes. Regardless of where the sensor is located my worry is “what happens if the sensor malfunctions”? I’ll only go e85 if I can have a designated e85 tune and a designated 93 tune. People laugh at me me because I’ve over built the car (drive shafts half shafts coolers chillers wavectrack diff, billet opg and cs etc) and only putting out 660whp but I just don’t want it to break when I roll race every 6 weeks at a designated track lol
Like he is explaining that's not how it works if you have a Coyote. The O2 sensors basically read rich or lean and adjust based on that. Really dangerous to have a flex tune and be boosted. I would have a dedicated 93 octane tune or E85 tune if I were boosted. No flex tune. Hopefully you have a full on fuel system like a Fore system as well. The stock fuel system can't handle 650RWHP on E85.
@@ShizawnSanders Thank you for your feedback. I have a 900hp fuel module and 1000cc injectors. My tuner said I’ll need a 1500hp fuel module and like 1300 or 1500cc injectors if I want to go e85. Yes if I do go e85 I’ll want separate tunes.
@@CoyoteAUS badass man. Hopefully I can afford a Whipple 3.0l and Fore fuel system for E85 one day on my 10R80 gen 3 Coyote. I got LT headers, suspension, wheels/tires ect in anticipation for a Supercharger system. Just got to come up with roughly $10k to get blown. Lol. Easier said than done for me. Wife would have a melt down. Lol.
@@ShizawnSanders I’m divorced so I had no push back for the blower. Lol
Roll racing ain't gonna break half shafts anyways but launching hard on drag radials might lol. Opg aren't needed unless you're bouncing off the limiter boosted on purpose...it's just not needed. You have an auto you shouldn't ever be bouncing off the limiter lol.
Question. I want to run 91 most of the time, and then on a few occasions I would like to run e85. Then I would like to go from e85 back to 91. Would I be able to do this with a flex fuel tune? From my understanding, when I switch from 91 to e85 I would have to flash the flex fuel tune. Then once the e85 is learned after a day or two, I would have to switch to the e85r tune. Is this correct? And if I wanted to switch from e85 back to 91, would i flash the flex fuel tune, wait a little bit then switch it over to the 91 tune ? SOMEONE PLEASE LET ME KNOW IF THIS IS RIGHT
Imagine not understanding how flex fuel works. Imagine the mind of that person.
How much would it affect the fuel pumps when you run it till she is dry?
Not ideal, especially in high heat areas
You don't want to run much lower than 1/8th of a tank.
@@Prestiged_peckas long as you don't run it completely dry its fine. Average bone heads that are clueless tbe 1/8th tank rule would be good for them lol
What about us that already have the flex tune? Do we get reversions when doing mods?
Doubtful
I got updated tunes last week, no flex tune only e85 and 91/93 tune. The flex tune is gone😢😢
How is this confusing to car people?
80% of people don't get it
Alot of these guys aren't real car guys. They're noobs who think they know it all but don't know shit and won't listen to anyone.